00:00 DAILY STATS AT 2024-11-28 00:00 UTC: Games: 299, Asc: 19, Scum: 58. 1574058 turns, 42396649 points. 17d 21:43 gametime. (31%Wiz), (50%Hum), (42%Cha), (58%Mal), 2d 23:59 remaining. 00:00 <@Loggers_VIII> ah no it's just 20 hits like in vanilla 00:00 100 hits to advance to basic 00:00 <@shadow_rider> but dynahack skills are op 00:00 <@shadow_rider> ez free ac 00:00 I think it depends on damage done, does it not? 00:00 i like dyna but not for weapon skills training 00:00 <@Loggers_VIII> tinklebear: you have to deal more than 1 damage with the hit 00:00 all weapons traing depends on damage afaik 00:00 so, like getting basic in two-handed sword is easier than in knife? 00:01 <@Loggers_VIII> so yeah if you don't have strength or enchant bonuses a shitty weapon is a little harder to get skill in cuz you'll deal 1 damage more often 00:01 interesting 00:02 <@Loggers_VIII> actually, it might be 2 damage 00:02 sure seems to take forever, but it takes forever in vanilla too 00:02 <@Loggers_VIII> ah nope it's just 1 damage 00:02 to get basic 00:02 <@Loggers_VIII> getting to basic is the biggest hurdle to get over fasho 00:02 tinklebear: 20 as opposed to 100? 00:03 I haven't noticed a difference, hothraxxa, between vanilla and evil 00:03 In vanilla bonuse don't matter for training I think, it's the basic roll 00:03 but I haven't been counting or anything like that. just going off feels here 00:03 <@Loggers_VIII> interesting arseniy 00:03 <@Loggers_VIII> if that's the case someone should add that to the wiki page 00:04 [US] [D]: a1 (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 33 points, 116 turns, killed by a fox 00:04 Well I read it on the wiki somewhere already, assuming I don't have false memory that is 00:06 played pauper a lot so had to read up on how to advance bare hands from unskilled to basic 00:06 congrats aoei 00:06 ty K2 00:06 <@Loggers_VIII> I'm fairly certain it's not mentioned on the "skill" page 00:06 <@Loggers_VIII> but that page probably needs an overhaul anyhow, it's a bit barebones 00:06 tinklebear: the last time i played evilhack i'm certain it used dynahack-like training: 100/200/400 and cross-training 00:07 oh here's k2 00:07 oh wow. that would suck ass, hothraxxa 00:07 <@Loggers_VIII> idk if that was ever the case but it certainly isn't now 00:07 <@Loggers_VIII> unnethack also has that scaling iirc 00:07 well k2 can clear that up 00:07 [US] bleeko (Rog Orc Mal Cha) became literate by engraving "foo", on T:3479 00:07 evilhack has standard training progression 00:08 i purposely did not add unnethack's training progression 00:08 -n 00:08 yet another reason it doesn't suck ass! 00:08 dynahack training = unnethack training 00:08 i don't trust k2 00:08 well fuck you 00:08 :P 00:08 i think he has a special version just for me 00:08 <@Loggers_VIII> I'm not sure what the thought process behind the un/dyna progression is 00:09 <@Loggers_VIII> kinda just sucks ngl 00:09 * tinklebear has never played dyna or un, and so is not judging 00:09 both are fun 00:09 <@Loggers_VIII> I've played un a little bit, quite enjoyed it 00:09 I see it in the code where I seem to be right but now where would I have read it 00:09 dynahack has some potentially game ending bugs though 00:09 i've ascended all roles in both of them and they are both fun regardless of the training fiasco 00:10 Raising your wand of create monster high above your head, you break it in two! You wrest one last charge from the worn-out wand. 00:10 \o/ 00:10 neat, but weird at the same time 00:10 that's why i stopped breaking spent wands 00:10 <@Loggers_VIII> unnethack also has that funny thing where you just have double carrycap so it's a good variant in my eyes :p 00:11 <@Loggers_VIII> that compensates for the training bs. an eye for an eye i guess 00:11 maybe you just read it in the code, Arseniy? 00:12 <@Loggers_VIII> many many wiki pages mention skill training strategy so I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere 00:12 <@Loggers_VIII> I seem to recall reading the same thing, actually 00:12 Oh I see, it's in the page for bare handed, the exact one I was studying carefully when playing pauper 00:13 but I think it applies to weapon skills as well 00:13 this was actually a positive outcome for what I was doing 00:13 [US] Leggman (Bar Hum Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:51472 00:13 <@Loggers_VIII> ais523: altar camping? 00:13 [US] Leggman (Bar Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed figurine of purple worm", on T:51474 00:18 [US] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed ring of polymorph control", on T:27179 00:19 [US] [A]: Leggman (Bar Hum Mal Cha), 1649450 points, 51530 turns, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Leggman/tnnt/dumplog/1732315521.tnnt.html 00:19 <@Loggers_VIII> grats leggman 00:20 <@Loggers_VIII> haha wait a second my clan is tied with gandalf's illegal fireworks for 2nd most ascs 00:20 <@Loggers_VIII> I was going to play evilhack but I guess I'll do a vanilla run 00:21 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) wished for "blessed fireproof wand of polymorph", on T:54764 00:21 heh 00:21 its novemeber, play tnnt 00:21 @Loggers_VIII: I was trying to get a magic lamp for AYEW, but I've pretty much given up at this point 00:21 there is no way to increase the probability other than by being in Gehennom, you just have to kill a huge number of monsters, and it isn't enjoyable 00:22 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) wished for "blessed fireproof wand of probing", on T:54765 00:23 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) genocided mind flayer, on T:38449 00:24 [US] bleeko (Rog Orc Mal Cha) removed Zolar's uncursed +0 set of gray dragon scales from the swap chest, on T:4416 00:24 <@Loggers_VIII> you should be able to wish for a magic lamp 00:24 [US] bleeko (Rog Orc Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:4430 00:27 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:54955 00:27 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:54963 00:27 [US] [D]: bleeko (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 8671 points, 4539 turns, killed by a bolt of fire 00:28 friggin centaur sniper 00:30 [AU] [D]: Loggers (Val Hum Fem Law), 368 points, 833 turns, killed by a dwarf lord 00:30 [AU] Loggers (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:143 00:31 [AU] HungryMotu (Val Hum Fem Law) received Excalibur, on T:4011 00:31 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) wished for "uncursed fixed magic marker", on T:38532 00:32 [AU] [D]: Loggers (Val Dwa Fem Law), 305 points, 619 turns, killed by a tower of flame 00:36 [US] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:27261 00:36 [US] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:36206 00:36 [AU] Loggers (Val Hum Fem Law) received Excalibur, on T:1776 00:37 [AU] HungryMotu (Val Hum Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:4566 00:38 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:55948 00:38 [AU] Loggers (Val Hum Fem Law) destroyed jientho's ghost, the former Digger, on T:2279 00:42 [US] [D]: bleeko (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 324 points, 1437 turns, killed by a giant bat 00:44 [US] [D]: Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law), 998 points, 1999 turns, killed by a small mimic 00:44 [AU] [D]: Loggers (Val Hum Fem Law), 6970 points, 3610 turns, killed by a winged gargoyle 00:44 <@Loggers_VIII> a guy turned into an arch lich and tried to touch of death me and failed 5 seperate times 00:44 ooof 00:44 -!- jientho has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:45 <@Loggers_VIII> he had to let his summoned winged gargoyle do all the work :P 00:46 <@cloudmillion> I believe the correct thing to say is "Oh no!" 😏 00:46 [US] [D]: bleeko (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 339 points, 504 turns, killed by a gnome lord 00:49 [US] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law) removed wisp's uncursed wand of polymorph (0:8) from the swap chest, on T:27471 00:50 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:39157 00:50 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:39158 00:50 gimmie dat 00:52 <@cloudmillion> I'm yet to ascend caveman! It's my least successful class ever 00:53 [AU] HungryMotu (Val Hum Fem Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:5466 00:53 @cloudmilliion: the start is hard, if you can get past the start it's OK though 00:53 i killed off many a caveman to get here 00:53 [EU] [D]: Xotius (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 92 points, 332 turns, killed by a kobold, while sleeping 00:53 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:56692 00:53 earlier i made it to the castle and died because i had the dumb 00:54 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:56700 00:55 [US] Prowler (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Ixoth, on T:24353 00:55 [US] Prowler (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:24354 00:55 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:39349 00:55 [EU] Gandelf (Mon Hum Mal Neu) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:3329 00:58 <@cloudmillion> Best is getting to the castle, forgetting about the moat eels and getting drowned bt the bridge 00:59 my death there was worse 00:59 [EU] Gandelf (Mon Hum Mal Neu) found kitten, on T:4113 00:59 i misjudged my survivability, got melee to death 00:59 let myself get flanked 01:00 Hourly Stats at 2024-11-28 01:00 UTC: Games: 10, Asc: 1, Scum: 0. 65519 turns, 1667550 points. (50%Cha), 2d 22:59 remaining. 01:00 [EU] noims (Rog Orc Mal Cha) found kitten, on T:29207 01:00 i seem to remember a dumplog with what looked like a "managed retreat" to the castle upstair.... 01:00 ...is that the one, K2? 01:00 <@Loggers_VIII> I've got you both beat, I died to an ogre zapping a wand of striking when I stepped onto the open drawbridge 01:00 yup 01:00 tinklebear 01:01 damn earth elemental 01:01 heh, I've had endings like that. ROBBED 01:01 ogre with wand of striking is how it's sposed to be, Loggers! 01:02 <@Loggers_VIII> gnome with a wand of death ain't got shit on the ogre with a wand of striking... 01:02 lol 01:02 [US] jackofclubs (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) found kitten, on T:4757 01:02 or when a monster tosses a potion at you and you're so low on hp it kills you 01:03 haha 01:03 and 10 turns prior you just got that fountain wish for GDSM 01:04 and now you need a new keyboard 01:04 [US] Prowler (Kni Hum Mal Law) polymorphed his first item, on T:25440 01:04 :D 01:05 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:39503 01:05 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:39509 01:06 [US] Prowler (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:26056 01:06 :P 01:07 hey Prowler, you're ascending too much, so if you could just slow down there. thanks 01:07 heh 01:07 -!- Haudegen has quit [Quit: Bin weg.] 01:07 [US] GrmlyFndsh (Mon Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:25517 01:08 <@Loggers_VIII> hehe prowler was really the unexpected goat of this tournament 01:09 -!- Lurker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 01:09 [EU] [D]: Xotius (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 790 points, 2236 turns, killed by a rothe, while helpless 01:10 [EU] noims (Rog Orc Mal Cha) killed Croesus, on T:29975 01:10 [US] Prowler (Kni Hum Mal Law) destroyed jientho's ghost, the former Woman-at-arms, on T:26865 01:11 [EU] [D]: Gandelf (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 4042 points, 5494 turns, killed by a wand 01:12 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:57980 01:14 -!- Furey has joined #tnnt 01:14 [US] [D]: jackofclubs (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 3804 points, 7029 turns, killed by a Green-elf 01:14 yeah i love the mysterious force SO MUCH 01:15 [US] [D]: a1 (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 2202 points, 4490 turns, killed by a wand 01:16 [US] [D]: GrmlyFndsh (Mon Hum Mal Law), 73171 points, 26345 turns, killed by a rock troll 01:16 [US] [D]: Leggman (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1546 points, 1695 turns, killed by a hobbit 01:17 [US] [D]: post163 (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 332 points, 1133 turns, killed by a gnome king 01:18 [US] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed rustproof stethoscope", on T:27787 01:20 [US] [D]: jackofclubs (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 249 points, 1155 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion 01:22 [US] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a wererat, on T:6013 01:22 [US] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:6017 01:23 -!- Noims has left #tnnt 01:25 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) entered the Planes, on T:59086 01:26 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor (10 times), on T:59120 01:27 [US] tsowell (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:50256 01:27 -!- crunchbubba43 has quit [Quit: Client closed] 01:28 [US] stoicjin (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:12938 01:28 [US] tsowell (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:50272 01:28 [US] karibou (Cav Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:59592 01:29 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) entered the Planes, on T:41228 01:30 [US] [D]: karibou (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 1301272 points, 59595 turns, turned to slime by a green slime 01:31 [US] [D]: recuerdo (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 21940 points, 16524 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted Woodland-elf, while praying 01:36 [EU] [D]: Xotius (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2148 points, 4071 turns, killed by a giant ant, while frozen by a monster's gaze 01:36 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) genocided class ;, on T:41394 01:39 [US] [D]: recuerdo (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 989 points, 1329 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted Green-elf, while praying 01:39 [US] tsowell (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:50553 01:39 [US] k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed Pestilence, on T:41457 01:40 [US] Prowler (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:30895 01:40 [US] Prowler (Kni Hum Mal Law) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:30898 01:40 [US] Prowler (Kni Hum Mal Law) genocided class h, on T:30899 01:41 [US] [D]: recuerdo (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 92 points, 287 turns, killed by a boulder 01:41 [US] [A]: k2 (Cav Dwa Mal Law), 2471994 points, 41481 turns, ascended (and 4 other games not reported) https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/tnnt/dumplog/1732570839.tnnt.html 01:42 -!- Furey46 has joined #tnnt 01:43 [US] jackofclubs (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) murdered Sylvester, his faithful kitten, on T:2707 01:43 [US] jackofclubs (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:2735 01:44 [AU] darkmiz (Tou Hum Fem Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3101 01:44 [US] Prowler (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered Gehennom, on T:30945 01:44 -!- Furey has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:45 [US] tsowell (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) genocided class c, on T:50628 01:45 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Famine, on T:59744 01:46 the sceptre of might is soooo underrated 01:46 hungerless conflict, so choice 01:47 <@Loggers_VIII> grats k2! 01:48 thanks! 01:48 <@Loggers_VIII> conflict is soooo good 01:48 <@Loggers_VIII> the one time I used it I remember it felt like I was cheating 01:48 rodney stole it on the plane of earth but i kept excalibur as my backup 01:48 [US] [D]: bleeko (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 2364 points, 3666 turns, killed by a minotaur 01:48 got it back 01:49 <@post163> gg k2 01:49 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Famine (5 times), on T:59815 01:49 thanks @post163 01:49 <@Loggers_VIII> I'm not really sure how to feel about the damage bonus on the sceptre. my instinct tells me it's really good 01:49 Okay, may be triple bones now. Hit the one with the master lich on DL9, there is a minotaur, purple worm, coatl there too 01:50 Right on the stairs too 01:51 <@Loggers_VIII> is the sceptre a rod in evil? if it isn't I feel like it should be 01:51 it is 01:51 slightly higher dmg output than a mace 01:51 [US] [D]: a1 (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 362 points, 950 turns, killed by a giant bat 01:51 [US] tsowell (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:50700 01:51 https://hardfought.org/userdata/b/bleeko/tnnt/dumplog/1732754825.tnnt.html 01:51 [EU] ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Famine (10 times), on T:59879 01:52 [US] tsowell (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:50702 01:52 <@Loggers_VIII> rods are kind of weird 01:52 <@Loggers_VIII> I guess they're like the runesword to the mace's broadsword 01:53 [US] [D]: jackofclubs (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 1607 points, 3994 turns, killed by an anti-magic implosion 01:53 [EU] [A]: ais523 (Cav Dwa Mal Law), 6669044 points, 59923 turns, ascended 01:53 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/a/ais523/tnnt/dumplog/1732661769.tnnt.html 01:54 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack#Weapons 01:54 ^ rod 01:54 <@Loggers_VIII> grats ais523! 01:54 congrats ais523 01:54 dorf cavemen represent 01:54 I could have won ages ago, I was grinding for AYEW but got board in the end 01:54 * bored 01:54 rod of force 01:55 it is weird to have an achievement that is about five times more difficult than ascending if you get lucky, and impossible if you don't 01:55 <@Loggers_VIII> rods are at least fun because I feel like whenever I talk about them I say something that acts as a springboard into a terrible sex joke 01:55 hahah 01:56 <@Loggers_VIII> ais523: definitely a bit of an outlier but it's sort of charming to me 01:56 like, there is no way to cause a magic lamp to spawn other than killing monsters in Gehennom 01:56 <@Loggers_VIII> make wishing for a magic lamp legal 01:56 ^ this 01:56 I killed so many that I got 9 Nazgul rings, and came third on the high score list 01:56 [US] [D]: recuerdo (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 1291 points, 3014 turns, killed by hallucinogen-distorted Yeenoghu 01:57 and lamps are only the fourth-most likely wish source to cause trouble 01:57 heh 01:57 it's the second-easiest wish source (after the wand) 01:57 <@Loggers_VIII> I think all variants I can think of off the top of my head make mlamp wishes possible so I doubt it'd be a controversial change 01:57 its not like you can farm wishes by enabling it 01:57 I was lucky enough to have smoky object detection, and to get the smoky potion wish within a reasonable number of tries 01:58 heh, i had healing as my smoky 01:58 i got 1 wish out of about 22-25 potions 01:58 I do kind-of like the way that magic lamps are unwishable – it makes it feel special if you find one – but maybe something else should be the "nice to have unwishable object" 01:58 markers 01:58 :P 01:58 i kid i kid 01:59 <@Loggers_VIII> pls never do such a thing :P 01:59 hmm, I went out of my way to become level 30 because I thought there was an achievement for it, but there wasn't 02:00 Hourly Stats at 2024-11-28 02:00 UTC: Games: 20, Asc: 2, Scum: 1. 244412 turns, 10559239 points. (47%Orc), 2d 21:59 remaining. 02:00 <@recuerdo> ooh, that is a good idea for an achievement though 02:00 there will be one once 3.7 is out and that's a real vanilla achievement 02:00 hint hint 02:00 [AU] darkmiz (Tou Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:4356 02:00 so the vanilla achievements are weird – they were actually ported into vanilla from /dev/null, and not created by anyone on the devteam 02:00 I play AYEW by ignoring it until I get a throne wish 02:00 but most of them are things that would naturally happen in any game – "progress achievements", as it were 02:01 aosdict: so do I, but I've played a lot of games 02:01 "become level 30" is something that, with some playstyles, basically never happens 02:01 and it doesn't have a fixed order in the game 02:01 oh hey, this caveman asc was my 6th. thought i only had 5 02:01 [AU] [D]: darkmiz (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 1433 points, 4360 turns, killed by a mumak 02:01 <@Loggers_VIII> I have zero caveman ascensions because they SUCK 02:02 I have thought about adding new achievements, but it'd be more things like "reach point X in the Castle" and "reach the Oracle level" 02:02 just because most of them represent progress through the game doesn't mean all of them necessarily have to do that 02:02 neutral caveman does kind-of suck, lawful caveman is fine once you get out of the early game, though 02:02 <@Loggers_VIII> am I tweakin or is there an achievement for killing demo 02:02 there is 02:02 I feel like if you were adding non-progress achievements you might as well add the entire set of TNNT achievements? 02:03 ais523: consulting the oracle is already an achievement, it would be weird to have one just for getting to her level 02:03 there are ach for killing all the different demon bosses 02:03 aosdict: in vanilla? 02:03 (a 3.7 vanilla achievement, I mean) 02:03 it's an achievement in TNNT 02:03 ACH_ORCL 02:03 ah, OK 02:03 <@Loggers_VIII> demo is certainly not a part of normal progression 02:03 [US] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:1409 02:03 well, it's happened naturally to me 02:03 and ACH_TUNE for discovering the passtune (which is another one that is not necessarily part of progression in all cases) 02:03 actually some demons seem much less likely to spawn 02:03 <@Loggers_VIII> I haven't even seen that guy in my last like 15 ascensions 02:04 it happened to me once this tournament 02:04 I was surprised that my character was overpowered enough to win the fight without much issue 02:04 <@Loggers_VIII> hey while we're on this topic, CAN he be made a part of normal progression? 02:04 <@Loggers_VIII> give him a lair 02:04 i've only seen yeenoghu for extra demon bosses 02:04 no stop bad loggers 02:04 I am playing strategically more carefully than normal this tournament, in an attempt to maximise asc rate per day 02:04 and most of my asc, no magic lamps 02:04 -!- eitbo has quit [Quit: Client closed] 02:05 so my characters are stronger in the late game than usual 02:05 you can give demo a guaranteed lair so long as it's optional (what xnh does) 02:05 <@Loggers_VIII> aosdict: you should understand where I'm coming from, with the changes you made to xnethack's gehennom :) 02:05 <@Loggers_VIII> oh right he's optinal 02:05 <@Loggers_VIII> optional 02:05 <@Loggers_VIII> btw xnethack gehennom is really cool nice job with that 02:06 [US] [D]: schoen (Pri Hum Mal Cha), 451 points, 1552 turns, killed by a sewer rat 02:06 <@Loggers_VIII> dnethack also has optional demogorgon. I think I like that as a compromise 02:06 <@Loggers_VIII> I just dislike that if you DO want to fight him, you have to do bullshit gate farming 02:06 when you play a lot of games, you start to appreciate challenges that only happen sometimes more 02:06 like the bigroom 02:06 a few variants have really neat takes on gehennom and how they handle demon boss encounters 02:07 should have a look ais523 02:07 <@Loggers_VIII> I have played a lot of games 02:07 we both have 02:07 <@Loggers_VIII> I like when I am allowed to do challenging and exciting things without having to go through boring shenanigans 02:07 right, I am very anti-grinding 02:08 loggers I think another dnethack thing is if you don't care to go all the way to a dlord lair, you can use a candle of invocation to summon them directly? 02:08 <@Loggers_VIII> aosdict: yeah I think so 02:08 like, the 3.7 change so that items could be IDed by comparison with each other, that was primarily intended as an anti-grind thing for the early game 02:08 I'm way out of my depth talking about most things dnethack 02:08 <@Loggers_VIII> anyway, I don't think it's good that demogorgong can just come in out of nowhere because he's not balanced for the average character 02:08 <@Loggers_VIII> *demogorgon 02:09 my game where that happened, I was in the sanctum, just about to wake up the HPoM 02:09 then the demon appears and I have other plans 02:09 but it was a case of fix sickness, get out and drop a ?oSM, deal with the summons and scare him to the upstairs 02:10 and then treat like a purple L 02:10 we need one more player that hasnt ascended yet to ascend, we'll have 100 different player asc then 02:10 [US] [D]: a1 (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 628 points, 1886 turns, killed by a hill orc 02:10 K2: has TNNT been bigger this year than usual? it feels like it 02:10 it has 02:10 i think 2020 was the biggest year 02:10 <@Loggers_VIII> ok but that scenario came at the cost of me never being able to encounter this guy without stupid grinding for the past 10+ runs lol 02:11 given what happened in 2020 that isn't surprising 02:11 right now we're at 336 asc, 333 players, 99 asc 02:11 *99 asc players 02:11 [US] [D]: recuerdo (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 877 points, 1577 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted killer bee 02:11 <@Loggers_VIII> dispater is also surprisingly nasty but no one can verify this because no one has seen him for the past 20 years 02:11 @Loggers_VIII: I'd say the case where you don't want the encounter works, but the case where you do want the encounter doesn't work 02:11 yeah nothing like a global pandemic to bring everyone together 02:12 <@Loggers_VIII> why not? I like fighting strong enemies in nethack 02:12 <@Loggers_VIII> me fighting demogorgon = fun = good 02:12 \o/ 02:12 [US] Zolar (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:65452 02:13 brb 02:13 @Loggers_VIII: I meant it doesn't work in the current codebase, if you want to do that the game doesn't provide a fun way to do so 02:13 <@Loggers_VIII> ahhhhh yes I 100% agree 02:14 [US] [D]: recuerdo (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 21 points, 139 turns, killed by a jackal 02:14 [US] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) destroyed jackofclubs' ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:3311 02:14 easy solution - For what do you wish? Demogorgon 02:14 <@Loggers_VIII> I really think you (and the rest of the devteam, really) should take a look at how xnethack does gehennom 02:14 not cursed figurine of Demogorgon, just straight wish for Demogorgon 02:15 @Loggers_VIII: I have actually looked at that, I am not sure I like it though (but I only read spoilers without playing it) 02:15 [US] [D]: recuerdo (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 39 points, 195 turns, killed by a goblin 02:15 or a special spellbook of summoning 02:15 to me the obvious setup would involve a same-race sacrifice 02:15 <@Loggers_VIII> it's definitely not suited to just toss into vanilla, but individual aspects of it would be great improvements if incorporated correctly 02:15 which aspects? 02:15 (YANIing my "wish for demon lord" idea because why not) 02:16 [US] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) rejected atheism by offering an acid blob corpse on an altar of Moloch, on T:3373 02:16 <@Loggers_VIII> all demon lords getting lairs, plus more varied and thematically cohesive levels 02:16 <@Loggers_VIII> there's also changes to demon lord behavior that are really neat 02:16 I think NetHack is like many games in that the gameplay works better on low resources than on high resources 02:16 <@Loggers_VIII> and not on the same level of mean as evilhack 02:16 [US] [D]: DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 4693 points, 3393 turns, killed by a dagger (and one other game not reported) 02:17 and also wondering, in your opinion, what aspects aren't suited to toss into vanilla 02:17 gonna toot my own horn here. evilhack gehennom is awesome 02:17 so is xnh 02:17 when the character reaches the point that they can grind c?oCM in the Sanctum in an attempt to get a magic lamp death drop (which I was actually doing), the rest of the game is academic, it's just about how much patience the player has to do stupid ascension tricks 02:17 <@Loggers_VIII> aosdict: the wish spreading is awesome, but it's too radical of a change and the devteam would never do it 02:18 wish spreading is less unlikely than you think 02:18 <@Loggers_VIII> also I don't think vanilla should add the punishments for NOT killing the lords 02:18 I am in favour of it, and am not the only devteam member in favour of it 02:18 I was going to say, I can hope for wish spreading 02:18 want to make gehennom more interesting and not a formality, well a big part of the problem is you enter with a full asc kit 02:18 unless wishless 02:18 I told the devteam that TNNT was basically a "3.6 but with an extra wish at Mines' End" tournament, and it got us thinking about wish spreading 02:19 (but Mines' End is too early to be balanced, I think) 02:19 <@Loggers_VIII> evilhack gehennom is quite good. the vecna branch far outdoes anything in vanilla in terms of flavor, challenge, level layouts and gameplay variety 02:19 yeah I don't like the idea of a guaranteed wish pre-castle 02:19 <@Loggers_VIII> and the demon lords are soooooo fun 02:20 <@Loggers_VIII> the wiztower is on the same level as vecna branch imo 02:20 [US] [D]: a1 (Hea Gno Fem Cha), 366 points, 746 turns, killed by a little dog 02:20 EvilHack's or vanilla's? 02:20 <@Loggers_VIII> lucifer is awesome 02:20 <@Loggers_VIII> evil's 02:20 evilhack will most likely incorporate wish spreading in next version 02:20 <@Loggers_VIII> but I'm biased 02:20 [US] Zolar (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:65902 02:20 an xnh gehennom change that should probably not be put into vanilla is the wiztower second level. missed the mark with that one 02:20 <@Loggers_VIII> hehe the xnh 2nd wiz level is so frustrating 02:21 <@shadow_rider> as a prank one year the swapchest should contain each of the items you’ve placed in previous years, and the items you offer it vanish 02:21 <@Loggers_VIII> I quite like the 3rd one 02:21 wiztower embedded into the level causes so much trouble, both code-wise and for unspoiled players, I kind-of want to make it separate but feel like that might be poorly received 02:21 <@shadow_rider> so you can only take out good items if you’ve been nice before :) 02:21 I quite like randomized mazes implemented in lua (talking about the 3rd level) 02:21 and when I say maze I mean of rooms 02:21 shadow hahahah 02:22 @shadow_rider: that would be kind-of broken for me, I take good items but I also put good items into the Valley chest (and sometimes even the items I put into the Mines chest get taken) 02:22 [US] levoittiel (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:23925 02:22 <@shadow_rider> karma rewards you 02:22 I think I put in 5 DSMs over the course of my last 2 ascs? 02:23 actually, this last game I took scales from the swap chest, made them into DSM, and later put the DSM back into the swap chest 02:23 <@shadow_rider> i used to be nice but the few games i’ve played this year i haven’t been bothered enough 02:23 I'm not sure I've ever taken and given the same item to the swap chest before 02:23 -!- crunchbubba55 has joined #tnnt 02:23 [US] Zolar (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:65999 02:23