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00:14 <Furey> Yeah these new tool-based acheivements look bad on the discoveries list.
00:15 <Furey> Rogue, near beginning of game:
00:15 <Furey> ARGH. Priest, near beginning of game:
00:17 <Furey> Discoveries
00:17 <Furey> Spellbooks
00:17 <Furey>   spellbook of remove curse (white)
00:17 <Furey>   spellbook of identify (parchment)
00:17 <Furey> Potions
00:17 <Furey> * potion of water (clear)
00:17 <Furey> Wands
00:17 <Furey>   wand called Oak [no visible effect] (oak)
00:17 <Furey>   (Izchak's Apprentice: 1/5)
00:18 <Furey> Like karafruit said: missing "Tools" section.
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14:08 <K2> $time
14:08 <Croesus> K2: 2024-10-29 14:08:03 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 2d 09:51:57
14:09 <crunchbubba> (vibrates)
14:14 <K2> hah
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14:39 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> clan registration opening tomorrow night, I am excited
14:39 <karafruit> :D
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14:41 <Furey> don't enchant crunchbubba any further! they will evaporate!
14:42 * karafruit wields Furey and reads a scroll of enchant weapon
14:43 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> I think last year my team was like cbus, arseniy, anselmus, xdminsy, shadowrider and some others
14:43 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> dunno if xdminsy is gonna be playing this year. I messaged him on discord and he hasn’t responded
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14:57 <Loggers_VIII> furey: are you planning to join a clan in specific or are you available for stealing?
14:57 <Furey> i have a clan, thaks
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14:57 <Loggers_VIII> boo
14:58 <Loggers_VIII> I don't want good players as competition :p
14:59 <Furey> hey i think we're tied at 1-1 for killing dev team members during beta season :)
14:59 <Furey> it's the thing to do when a savebreak is coming
15:00 <Loggers_VIII> honestly as long as mutually exclusive achievements exist there should be one for killing a devteam member
15:01 <Loggers_VIII> or maybe for killing 2, that's decently hard to set up
15:09 <K2> i dont think we want to incentivize killing the devteam
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15:13 <Loggers_VIII> they would probably be chill about it
15:13 <Loggers_VIII> but yeah I get the apprehension
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15:17 <Furey> From the monsters earning achievements department:
15:17 <Furey> The large cat bites Zairuk of Uakhu.  Zairuk of Uakhu is killed!  Achievement unlocked: "Minetown Avenger".  The large cat eats a hill orc corpse.
15:19 <K2> you could argue it did it on your behalf
15:20 <K2> :P
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15:21 <Loggers_VIII> yasi: have an account registered for the dungeon, somehow track when someone besides you gets an achievement, when they do it goes to that account
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15:22 <tinklebear> "someone besides you" is a monster in your game, I take it?
15:23 <tinklebear> or a pet, an NPC, or whatever
15:24 <Furey> but then the argument that k2 mentioned, would become a real argument
15:26 <Loggers_VIII> tinklebear: yeah, npc
15:27 <Loggers_VIII> maybe make it still your achievement if the monster that does it is a pet, idk
15:27 <hothraxxa> i'm an npc. i've killed me a few times
15:27 <hothraxxa> well, my ghost. 
15:28 <hothraxxa> i killed me on astral once and i turned out to be wielding vorpla blade
15:28 <hothraxxa> (vorpal blade's sister)
15:29 <hothraxxa> also i just drew orc town. i want to speak to the dungeonmaster
15:32 <Furey> $time
15:32 <Croesus> Furey: 2024-10-29 15:32:44 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 2d 08:27:16
15:34 <Loggers_VIII> take it up with lorimer
15:34 <Loggers_VIII> you can actually do that in tnnt :P
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15:40 * tinklebear had to think about that one waaay too long
15:56 <hothraxxa> these orcs are broken. none of them are leaving a corpse
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16:03 <hothraxxa> so i have mine town avenger. ONE corpse
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16:31 <aosdict> if there WERE an achievement about killing the devteam members I'd name it "Lord British Postulate"
16:31 <aosdict> but since we don't let "end your game in Fun Circumstance" be achievements, there won't be
16:34 <aosdict> hothraxxa: https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2271
16:34 <aosdict> I guess history repeats
16:41 * hothraxxa chuckles
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17:48 <Furey> $time
17:48 <Croesus> Furey: 2024-10-29 17:48:32 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 2d 06:11:27
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17:56 <rld> <@arthurdayne18> Getting closer.  I should probably make sure my config file on hardfought is set up the way I want. Would hate to start my first game Thursday night, and have to stop to edit my config file
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18:52 <aosdict> TNNT is still based on nethack 3.6.7, so you don't need to worry about your config breaking with 3.7 stuff
18:57 <rld> <@arthurdayne18> It's more of, I mostly play NAO, so havnt touched my tnnt config since 2019. Should be a simple copy and paste from my nao file
18:59 <joes> it's a ritual for me to rewrite the config
19:11 <[> aosdict: that's what the junethack trophy for killing demogorgon in dnethack is called
19:12 <aosdict> that seems a little strange, isn't it mainly used for characters in video games who aren't intended to be enemies?
19:13 <aosdict> sure you may not see demogorgon but if you do he's sure not gonna be peaceful
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19:17 <[> "Postulate Proven (killed Demogorgon, thereby proving the Lord British Postulate (if it has stats, we can kill it))"
19:17 <[> he's just very dangerous, hard to kill, and you don't have to kill him to get through his lair
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20:31 <Furey> bug report
20:31 <Furey> i am holding: G - a large glob of black pudding
20:31 <Furey> i have not received achievement 226
20:31 <Furey> [ ] #226 "Yes I Am Still Pudding Farming" - Split enough puddings to coalesce a large glob
20:31 <aosdict> did you wish for the glob?
20:31 <Furey> i collected globs into a sack on the ground. by my count, 20 globs.
20:32 <Furey> no, i killed a lot of black puddings
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20:34 <Furey> also, alas, i am out of black puddings. gotta go find another sink.
20:36 <aosdict> you've been hearing sloshing sounds from inside the bag?
20:36 <aosdict> I got the achievement putting globs into a bag on the ground
20:38 <Furey> i heard one slosh while bagging
20:38 <Furey> wiki says that happens when globs merge out of sight
20:39 <aosdict> how exactly did you go about things, did you keep inserting each small glob?
20:42 <Furey> mostly yes. there was one time early on when i put in a glob that had 3 puddings go into it.
20:43 <Furey> aside from that, i was careful to pick up and bag each glob before killing the next pudding.
20:43 <Furey> aha, i think this line has a bug:
20:43 <Furey> if (o1wt < 300 && o2wt < 300 && otmp1->owt > 300)
20:43 <Furey> i think it needs to be "otmp1->owt >= 300"
20:44 <Furey> i bet i had o1wt of 280, o2wt of 20, and otmp1->owt of 300 exactly (assuming globs usually weigh 20)
20:45 <aosdict> confirmed
20:45 <Furey> btw now my 20-count glob of 400 is useless, i can't get the achievement by adding more to it
20:45 <Furey> yay! beta test trophy unlocked! :)
20:46 <aosdict> well the first 2 conditions are to stop someone wishing up a large glob, killing one pudding and then combining them
20:46 <aosdict> you can get it by wishing for smaller globs a bunch of times but that costs so many wishes I would start to question their sanity
20:46 <Furey> just gonna zap 2-3 WoW here ...
20:47 <Furey> also stops someone who finds a large glob in bones from adding just one glob to it
20:48 <Furey> besides bones ... the arena (but not swap chest)
20:48 <aosdict> I would also question the sanity of someone who chooses their arena prize trophy to be a glob
20:49 <Furey> i wouldn't.
20:49 <Furey> by the time hero gets to arena, and is capable of fighting arena opponent, they have most of their ascension kit anyways.
20:50 <Furey> (or maybe that's just me)
20:51 <Furey> anyways there it is, i'll look for a fix and try again. i'm pretty jazzed about finding a real bug.
20:53 <aosdict> you might be able to partly eat that large glob so it's not a multiple of 20 and then merge in another glob
20:55 <Furey> i don't even have a unihorn :(
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20:57 <Furey> just gonna suicide this guy, there's a medium size potion shop and an altar here.
20:58 <Furey> 94 black puddings vanquished
20:58 <Furey> crap, there's also a portal to robotfindskitten, probably means no bones
20:59 <Furey> Furey, poisoned by a rotted glob of black pudding
21:12 <karafruit> I think it should be (o1wt <= 300 && o2wt <= 300 && otmp1->owt > 300), not what furey said--a 300 weight isn't large, so you want "neither were large before" and "total is large"
21:12 <karafruit> whereas <300 and  >=300 would treat 300 as large instead of normal-glob
21:13 <Furey> oh that avoids the fencepost error too, i didn't actually check the glob-printing code
21:13 <karafruit> <=100 is small, > 500 is very large, > 300 is large
21:13 <karafruit> according to the glob-printing
21:14 <Furey> need to refactor, make a common glob_size function
21:15 <karafruit> my guess is that would be a no-go, since TNNT tries not to modify vanilla code; the message-printing is vanilla, but the other uses of size are (I assume) only for the TNNT achievement-checking
21:15 <karafruit> I guess wish parsing would use it too, now I think about it
21:15 <karafruit> hmm
21:15 <karafruit> now I'm curious
21:16 <karafruit> (actually, idk if TNNT tries not to modify vanilla, or just doesn't-fix-vanilla-bugs; I admit I'm making an assumption to get to the former)
21:16 <aosdict> I regret to tell you that object-formatting and wish parsing use different code paths
21:16 <Furey> first, DRY, and second, "if (glob_size(obj1) < GLOB_LARGE && glob_size(obj2) < GLOB_LARGE && glob_size(otmp1) >= GLOB_LARGE)" is lot easier to get correct and verify correct
21:16 <Furey> what? even more code to refactor!
21:17 <aosdict> the wish parser (at least in 3.6.7) is a mess
21:17 <aosdict> it reads "small" but then is not sure if you're asking for "small glob" or "small mimic" so it has to look ahead to check
21:17 <aosdict> god forbid a developer adds small something else
21:18 <aosdict> karafruit: given that 3.7 merge will happen at some point I think "try not to modify vanilla" is accurate
21:18 <karafruit> yeah, typically for a fork of something you don't want to do refactors that merge vanilla and forked behavior
21:19 <aosdict> this is not an official tnnt devteam position (tm) this is just me being the most likely person to get tnnt onto 3.7 and looking ahead at what will minimize the pain
21:19 <Furey> to be clear, the line in question is a TNNT line, not a vanilla line.
21:19 <karafruit> but the code that *describes* the sizes of globs is vanilla
21:19 <Furey> yeah
21:20 <Furey> so my proposed non-DRY refactor would touch vanilla code
21:20 <karafruit> exactly
21:20 <aosdict> I was looking back at some xnethack vanilla merge commits where I had noted in the commit log I had dropped some minor feature or refactor that *improved* what vanilla had, but was not worth the effort of fixing conflicts when vanilla changed stuff
21:21 <karafruit> also: < GLOB_LARGE and >= GLOB_LARGE is not correct, since GLOB_LARGE is 300 and 300 is not large, it should be <= GLOB_LARGE and > GLOB_LARGE. (or else make GLOB_LARGE 301 I guess)
21:22 <aosdict> one thing I want to do before merging in the eventual 3.7.0 release is put all the tnnt functions in a separate file, so they don't mess with vanilla's code moves at all
21:22 <Furey> don't be touching the definition of GLOB_LARGE and breaking something else. especially not so close to 300 players on nov 1.
21:23 <karafruit> so you'd keep GLOB_LARGE at 300 and use < and >= then
21:23 <Furey> i would, yes.
21:23 <karafruit> then you would be changing behavior
21:23 <Furey> that's fine.
21:24 <Furey> this is tnnt behavior. the whole "if" block is new code in a tnnt commit.
21:24 <karafruit> but then you get the achievement for going from medium blob to medium blob
21:24 <karafruit> which is wrong
21:24 <aosdict> in-game, I don't think the hero cares very much whether their glob weighs 300 or 301 -- it's pretty big!
21:24 <karafruit> because 300 is a medium blob
21:25 <Furey> oh i misread your question.
21:25 <karafruit> it's ok, I misasked my question, tbf
21:25 <karafruit> and then just rolled with it
21:26 <Furey> in light of your point, i agree with: "if (owt1 <= 300 && owt2 <= 300 && otmp1->owt > 300)"
21:26 <karafruit> gotcha, thanks :)
21:26 <karafruit> (and that's what I meant to ask, and what you thought you answered, and then I realized that's not what I asked, and confusion ensued)
21:27 <Furey> aosdict we care because if i get the ach for a 300 size glob, but it prints as "glob" rather than "large glob", that's confusing
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23:22 <crunchbubba78> $time
23:22 <Croesus> crunchbubba78: 2024-10-29 23:22:42 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 2d 00:37:18
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23:47 <rld> <@Dictyostelium> RIP @petep_pilled  ... that was tragic 😦
23:47 <rld> <@Dictyostelium> $lastgame petep
23:47 <Croesus> @Dictyostelium: No last game for petep.
23:48 <rld> <@Dictyostelium> hmm, or other pete 😒
23:55 <rld> <@Dictyostelium> https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/p/peterg/nethack/dumplog/1729930937.nh.html
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