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00:53 <Furey> grats rebrane
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01:28 <tinklebear> oh, nice. congratulations, rebrane
01:31 <tjw> congrats rebrane on killing 4 erinyes
02:08 <tinklebear> lol
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05:16 <Furey> grats  efot
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10:26 <rld> <@Dictyostelium> $lastgame Fukka
10:26 <Croesus> @Dictyostelium: [EU] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/F/Fukka/tnnt/dumplog/1730016975.tnnt.html
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10:48 <rld> <@Dictyostelium> @k21971 i believe earlier a blind buc Flashingh the altar was reported as atained even when blind? The same occurs with a blind scroll read upgrading the main weapn: glowy blue Upgrade => you cannot see it but acchievement is earned.
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11:55 <joes> !lastgame joes
11:55 <joes> $lastgame joes
11:55 <Croesus> joes: [EU] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/j/joes/tnnt/dumplog/1729937495.tnnt.html
12:28 <rld> <@Dictyostelium> !lastgame Raisse
12:28 <rld> <@Dictyostelium> $lastgame Raisse
12:28 <Croesus> @Dictyostelium: [EU] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/R/Raisse/tnnt/dumplog/1730013587.tnnt.html
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13:25 <Kontroller> o/ deki
13:25 <Kontroller> o/ rossyrg
13:27 <joes> hi kontroller
13:31 <nabru> \o
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14:28 <K2> $time
14:28 <Croesus> K2: 2024-10-27 14:28:02 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 4d 09:31:57
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15:46 <crunchbubba> I
15:47 <crunchbubba> I'm wearing my TNNT 2023 shirt, to try and get in the mood.
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16:38 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> the “glowy blue upgrade” achievement doesn’t have to do with you seeing the weapon though, so it being triggered when blind is fine. The BUC one was triggered when someone dropped an item on an altar while hallucinating, which doesn’t reveal the BUC - the achievement is specifically “reveal an item’s BUC by dropping it on an altar”, so that was incorrectly triggered
16:39 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> Glowy blue upgrade is just to increase the enchantment of a weapon, so even though the name mentions the color it’s ok to get it while blind
16:41 <aosdict> also in "achievement names aren't always 100% accurate", technically get flashed doesn't even require a flash, you can get it by dropping an uncursed item (even when hallucinating)
16:42 <aosdict> I have a fix for what tinklebear reported in the pipeline
16:42 <aosdict> it will now require the item to start out buc-unidentified and become identified
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17:13 <tinklebear> cool. very clear criteria, aosdict
17:14 <tinklebear> I am curious what devs think about the thing karafruit reported yesterday, about chatting to Izchak while hallucinating
17:15 <tinklebear> In a sense, you aren't "chatting with Izchak" if you *believe* you are chatting to a gecko, or to a Golgafrinchan Ark B refugee, or whatever...
17:15 <Furey> perhaps izchak is not "wise" when he's pitching insurance? :)
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17:16 <tinklebear> ...and so I have always assumed this was a feature of hallucination, and not really a bug
17:17 <tinklebear> but, like I say, I am curious what devs (or of course anyone else) thinks about it
17:19 <Furey> would be over-engineering, but maybe give izchak some *different* wise sayings when hero is hallucinated. tnnt-specific ones.
17:21 <tinklebear> one similar thing I have noticed is that non-hostile grunters "discuss dungeon exploration" when you are hallucinating
17:21 <tinklebear> that is, they become much more articulate
17:21 <tinklebear> :D
17:21 <Furey> achievement unlocked: chat to a wise old man that is really a hallucinogen-distorted soldier ant
17:22 <tinklebear> heh
17:24 <tinklebear> in nh4, there was a thing where you couldn't push boulders while hallucinating UNLESS you pushed just at the moment that your perceptions reported that the boulder was indeed a boulder
17:24 <tinklebear> I was floored when I discovered that last bit!
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17:32 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> tinklebear: well, even if you’re hallucinating and perceive izchak as, say, a gecko, you aren’t talking to a gecko - it’s still izchak
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17:42 <tinklebear> that certainly seems to me a valid point of view, Loggers
17:42 <tinklebear> but what is a conversation?
17:42 <tinklebear> what sort of thing is it?
17:43 <tinklebear> is it fundamentally something that requires cooperation, coordinated intentions, between the parties to it?
17:45 <tinklebear> to "chat with someone" is, arguably, a bit different from mere performance of verbal behavior
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17:48 <crunchbubba> is this thing on?  (connecting a new to me way)
17:48 <tinklebear> hello, crunchbubba
17:48 <crunchbubba> thanks
17:49 <Furey> hiya crunchbubba
17:53 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> tinklebear: I think you’re reading too much into it, to “chat” in this context means literally to use the chat command on izchak
17:53 <tinklebear> "on Izchak"
17:54 <tinklebear> IIRC, JL Austin wrote about this sort of thing ("what is a conversation").
17:54 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> even if you see another monster, chatting to it is chatting to izchak because what you’re seeing isn’t real
17:54 <tinklebear> if it interests you, I found it very interesting, but I'm afraid my memory of his arguments is faded
17:55 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> it’s not as if killing a demon lord while you see a grid bug in its place won’t award you an achievement
17:55 <tinklebear> killing is like talking. revenge is like conversing
17:55 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> I’ll check it out because it’s an interesting subject
17:55 <tinklebear> (roughly speaking)
17:57 <Furey> one achievement, effect while hallucinating, here comes the philosophy. this is awesome. :)
17:59 <tinklebear> nethack is sublime!
18:00 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> In NetHack context, I don’t think ‘chat’ necessarily needs to be a conversation involving reciprocal interaction between two individuals. You can chat to a grid bug all you want, it’s never gonna say anything back
18:00 * tinklebear buzzes angrily
18:00 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> lol
18:01 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> I guess it depends on rather you interpret the ‘chat’ in the achievement criteria as the *command* or as the *word*
18:01 <tinklebear> sounds like a fair summary!
18:02 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> I guess it depends on whether you interpret the ‘chat’ in the achievement criteria as the *command* or as the *word*
18:02 <Furey> darn, i still have one un-id'd amulet? looks like i put only one amulet into swap chest, not too. sorry, my bad.
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19:51 <Furey> sorry guys, yeenoghu bones right on the staircase at dlvl 5
19:53 <K2> this is the way
19:54 <joes> thanks, I wasn't planning to play for a while
20:00 <K2> $time
20:00 <Croesus> K2: 2024-10-27 20:00:50 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 4d 03:59:10
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21:14 <Arseniy> The way, you say? Here you go https://hardfought.org/userdata/D/DoktorL/tnnt/dumplog/1730061509.tnnt.html
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21:37 <crunchbubba> K2, I am wearing tnnt 2023 shirt to get ready
21:38 <Furey> $time
21:38 <Croesus> Furey: 2024-10-27 21:38:29 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 4d 02:21:30
21:38 <K2> \o/
21:52 <Furey> k2 this is the way:
21:52 <Furey> https://hardfought.org/userdata/D/DoktorL/tnnt/dumplog/1730065470.tnnt.html
21:52 <K2> :)
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22:27 <Loggers_VIII> ooh nice sdsm from a raisse bones
22:27 <Loggers_VIII> also gets me recorporealized, pretty lucky
22:33 <karafruit> niice
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22:47 <hothraxxa> there's a minesflayer down here. i thought that was fixed
22:47 <Umbire> In 3.7
22:47 <Loggers_VIII> was it? I thought minesflayers were still in 3.7
22:48 <Umbire> probably thinking of something else then
22:49 <cathartes> probably the Castle covetous liches
22:50 <hothraxxa> isn't tnnt 3.7 based?
22:51 <aosdict> no
22:51 <aosdict> we now have an elegant and finely-crafted link explaining why! https://tnnt.org/faq#version
22:52 <Loggers_VIII> tnnt won't be 3.7 based until 3.7 releases officially
22:53 <K2> yeah!
22:53 <hothraxxa> well it killed me
22:53 <K2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEcXp8_I8CY
22:54 <Loggers_VIII> I don't think minesflayers will ever be 'fixed'. even if they're almost unequivocally lame to find, they're too iconic at this point.
22:55 <Umbire> I actually offed one with a local samurai recently
22:55 <aosdict> iconic? wat
22:55 <Loggers_VIII> iunno if
22:55 <Loggers_VIII> 'iconic' is the right word, but I feel like everyone has at least one memory of one
22:56 <Loggers_VIII> it's a kind of fun shared suffering. like gnome with a wand of death
22:56 <karafruit> and the $77 pair of +5 leather gloves in a store
22:58 <Loggers_VIII> running into an arch-lich chameleon
23:00 <Loggers_VIII> oh nice, some dilithium crystals
23:01 <Loggers_VIII> hardly ever see those
23:01 <aosdict> can I have those? my warp drive is acting up
23:01 * karafruit tosses a dilithium crystal at the aosdicticorn
23:02 * aosdict gratefully accepts your gift.
23:03 <Loggers_VIII> I got the bigroom, so I can get the two achievements associated with that. this is a lucky run
23:03 <Umbire> mm, might continue my priest tonight
23:04 <Loggers_VIII> this is shaping up to be a great run if I don't die
23:04 <Loggers_VIII> lots of stars aligning combined with uncharacteristically good play from me
23:04 <karafruit> good luck!
23:05 <Loggers_VIII> thank ye thank ye
23:05 <Loggers_VIII> umbire: is that the lawful priest with sunsword?
23:10 <Arseniy> Glad to hear you didn't get the big room which I left 7 arch-liches in
23:10 <Loggers_VIII> lmao what'd you do that for
23:10 <Umbire> sounds like you got summonstormed and worn down
23:11 <Arseniy> well it's pre-tournament fun and these games don't matter, so why not
23:11 <Loggers_VIII> it is a very very funny thing to do
23:12 <Arseniy> Should probably have left those bones in the mines, though, cause people like swap chests
23:12 <Loggers_VIII> mines are definitely the most well-traveled area in tnnt
23:13 <Arseniy> I'll keep that in mind once tournament starts (no arch-liches though)
23:13 <Loggers_VIII> yeah go for archons this time
23:13 <Loggers_VIII> I believe last tnnt there actually was an archon bones in minetown
23:28 <karafruit> come on Yeenoghu, I don't have all day, give me some demon princes!
23:29 <karafruit> demonbane only blocks gating if it's wielded, right?
23:29 <karafruit> oh right, he's still summoning other major demons, just not princes, so it must not be blocking him. it's just the 2% is taking a while to hit :(
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