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17:58 at least, that notion comforts me somewhat... but you're right i still need to think how to do the port of hte main actual backend code as painlessly as possible 17:59 on the plus side, it's not a huge codebase, and there are some advantages to starting totally from scratch 17:59 tho it sounds ominous now 18:00 aosdict: how soon do we want a decision on this? 18:00 re: total rewrite vs incremental, and which lang to port to (if we port at all) 18:00 well I'd like us to have leaderboards well in advance of the tournament 18:00 aosdict: so Jan 1st? 18:01 maybe better before christmas tbh 18:01 don't need to mull over this for ages 18:01 also are we still debating, voting on ideas at this stage? i think i got distracted and didn't get through the entire etherpad 18:01 did like the main ones at hte very top 18:02 part of the problem is I don't know how much I want to commit to, because time spent on scoreboard is time not spent on xnethack 18:02 fine, i'll remove you from consideration 18:02 and decide on my own what i want to write it in 18:02 but at the same time it's not fair to say "we want a rewrite in python, and dump it all on aoei" 18:02 :) 18:02 anyway i think i'd like to try and decide on this fairly soon 18:03 because the more we delay now, the more risk we forget about this until October... 18:03 a year rolls around crazy fast these days 18:03 ^ that 18:03 if it is in python, I will be helping out. just don't want to become the de facto maintainer because Crom knows I don't need another nethack thing to be the maintainer of 18:03 i would think, whoever is doing the heavy lifting, they decide how they want to write it 18:03 yeah i dont want to put that burden on you lol 18:04 the gods seem to have graced me with the position of the one to do the heavy lifting on this 18:04 so im not gonna say python just because aosdict might prefer that, but because i wanna do it in python 18:05 idk how involve stenno is likely to be if we end up choosing nodeJS 18:05 he's a pretty busy guy 18:05 i may hav eother selfish reasons to choose nodeJS tho 18:05 you do what you think is best aoei 18:05 i will K2 18:05 hurry up 18:05 ill think about it all 18:06 :P 18:06 :) 18:07 * K2 slaps stenno around a bit with a large trout 18:07 lol 18:08 (selfish reasons: I might choose nodeJS to give me an additional motivation to learn it, and knowing it seems to be useful in the job market) 18:08 if im gonna do random open source community coding i might as well milk that shit for career gains :P 18:10 s/random/important nethack/ 18:10 sorry, fixed 18:10 somebody please give me a job :c 18:11 btw is the deal now that we just do all the dev discussion here since this chan is no longer high-traffic 18:20 no, it just spilled out here for some reason 18:20 ah okay 18:20 fair 18:21 sorry folks, super secret squirrel dev talk to be moved soon 18:21 :P 18:21 node.js + express is about as easy as it gets 18:22 -!- jeremiahL has joined #tnnt 18:25 K2: lmao 18:26 <{Demo}> stenno is right though 18:26 yeah ok well im not deciding anything for sure this minute 18:27 but i may beleaning towards the JS camp 18:28 aosdict: you are great at ideas and design/balance tho, pls continue doing that 18:28 yeah aosdict 18:28 keep doing that stuff 18:28 (hurry up) 18:29 :P 18:29 K2 cracking the whip 18:29 CODE, MAGGOTS 18:29 lol 18:33 * aosdict puts fingers to temples to generate ideas faster 18:34 aosdict maybe you will generate more ideas if you drop and give me 20 18:34 then 10 laps around the courtyard 18:34 GO 18:34 asking coders to do physical 18:34 thats funny 18:34 hey i can do pushups 18:34 i mean 18:34 i can't do 20 pushups 18:34 oh my 18:34 im just gonna put that out there right now 18:34 we got some work to do 18:34 i suppose so :P 18:35 i could do 10 in a set a while back but 18:35 tbh ive been really shit with keeping up with exercise lately :/ 18:35 actually aosdict is a stud. he hiked the appalachians 18:35 ;o 18:35 kewl 18:36 i used to be in great shape but now my endurance is poo 18:36 aosdict: you should get a close-fitting turtleneck 18:36 tight aroudn the biceps 18:36 thats how the studs do it 18:36 I can do 20 pushups. in fact I'll do them right now 18:36 one set tho? 18:36 or multiple sets totally to 20 18:36 cuz i could do that 18:36 just not in a single set 18:36 'correct' push ups 18:36 so many ppl do them incorrectly 18:37 K2 just incase anybody here is unaware of what is correct 18:37 pls share your definition of the way 18:37 to do pushups 18:37 back 18:37 im gonna do some amount of pushups 18:37 aoei: I hate long sleeves 18:37 i dont think it will be 20 tho 18:37 aosdict: fair enough 18:38 body is straight, no sagging or arching 18:38 hands should be under your shoulders, can go wide if you want but you're just doing more work 18:39 knees NOT touching the ground, ever 18:39 look straight ahead 18:39 yeah legs should be pretty straight right 18:39 ahhh looking straight is the thing i dont actually do 18:39 the rest i think i pretty much get right normally 18:39 as you lower your body, dont stop until your biceps are parallel to the ground 18:39 aosdict: imagine tho u could look like this guy https://bit.ly/2WocViN 18:39 on way up, dont stop until elbows are locked/arms straight 18:39 rinse/repeat 18:40 i heard it you shouldn't fully lock during exercises like this 18:40 like straight as you can but *don't* lock 18:40 i've graded a bazillion army PT tests, so many ppl try to cheat or cut corners 18:40 nope 18:40 huh 18:41 i will do some independent research on that just to see but i take your word for it for now 18:41 oh, feet can touch, or spread a lil bit apart but not more than a foot 18:41 heh 18:41 i think i had them apart normally but not far, idk 18:41 anyway i will try this now with your method 18:41 i used to be able to knock out about 75 in 2 min. now, i'm lucky if i can manage 30 in same timeframe 18:42 so out of shape hah 18:42 aoei its not my method, its the right method :) 18:43 yes ofc 18:43 well i can do 10 that way, justg 18:43 i guess i normally had my arms a bit wider, typically 18:43 and dont go fast starting out, take your time, get it right 18:43 and you said its harder 18:43 i didnt really do it fast i gues 18:43 fairly measured, controlled movements 18:43 oh, this is important - dont forget to breathe 18:44 yeah ofc 18:44 you say that 18:44 i always control my breathing during exercise 18:44 i have to remind ppl i grade *all the time* 18:44 typically i will inhale with one direction and exhale with another 18:44 yup thats good 18:44 usually exhale is the push direction or pull direction 18:44 the one that feels more like work 18:44 altho in reality both are work 18:45 unless you are flopping or dropping which you shouldn't be doing 18:45 lol now i wanna see how many i can do. just stuffed myself at pot luck lunch too 18:45 with whatever kind of strength training the movements should be controlled in both directions 18:45 <@Tone> I didn't realize you were supposed to look forward, I always try to keep my neck straight 18:45 falling back is bad 18:45 yeah Tone I thought the same 18:45 i always looked at the floor 18:46 fast reps are good for explosive power training IIRC 18:46 but even if you're doing fast reps with low weight 18:46 the movements should *always* be controlled 18:46 never falling or flopping back with gravity 18:47 welp 25 18:47 ay not bad 18:47 more tha me :P 18:47 and i feel like i made a bad decision 18:47 oh? 18:47 lol 18:47 i am soooo out of shape 18:47 and i full 18:47 then exercise is a great decision :P 18:47 oh 18:47 ow 18:47 ok 18:47 belly FULL 18:47 yeah not ideal 18:48 yeeeeah thats no good lol 18:48 lol 18:48 you should know better :P 18:48 i think jogging is the worst 18:48 i should but i do dumb shit anyways 18:48 jogging too soon after lunch esp big lunch was horrible 18:48 i made that mistake sometimes 18:48 i dont run anymore unless i'm being chased. and even then i'm like 'eh... eat me bear' 18:48 i should start jogging again im also in awful shape 18:48 jogging is great cardio 18:49 just combine ur office job with a workout for the optimal training regime 18:49 https://i.imgur.com/5JnoqWL.gif 18:49 my lower back and left knee are in bad shape, i havent run in years 18:49 ahahahahaaa 18:49 <@luxidream> you did 75 before K2? 18:49 i have a bike tho 18:49 <@luxidream> i gotta step up my game D: 18:49 lux K2 was military 18:49 is 18:49 or still is idk how that owrks 18:49 yeah sorry 18:49 just not active service? 18:49 luxi in my heydey yeah i could knock out a lot of pushups in 2 min 18:50 then i got old (and better looking) 18:50 lux if you focus on training like you do on nethack im sure you will do many many pushups 18:50 maybe even 100 pushups 18:50 you can do it 18:50 100 is a lot 18:50 yeah i guess lol 18:50 <@luxidream> the power of boredom 18:50 hehe 18:50 most i've ever seen anyone do (correctly) is 120 or so 18:51 i wonder if i didn't keep my body quite straight enough or my belly's just fat 18:51 cuz sometimes it felt like mybelly touch the ground before my biceps were 100% parallel loool 18:52 it takes practice to keep your body straight 18:52 fair 18:52 if your core is weak, its hard 18:52 right 18:52 strong core, everything else will follow 18:52 yeah my core was better before also 18:52 i gotta get back into a routine 18:53 <@luxidream> how do I do pullups correctly K2 18:53 good thing is loads of things lowkey train your core so you don't lose it super fast if you're somewhat active 18:53 jogging also involves core more than you might think 18:53 hate jogging 18:53 <@luxidream> I got a pullup bar pretty recently and I've been using it a lot but idk if I am doing it right lol 18:53 many people do aosdict 18:53 i like it 18:53 I'll ride my bike for hours, hike over mountains for days. jogging? nope 18:53 ah thats easy 18:53 altho its hard to get back into after a break beacuse i can't do as great a distance as i'd like to before my calves get tight or so 18:54 @luxidream - palms facing out, shoulder width apart 18:54 at my prime i did about 18 km 18:54 in one run 18:54 start from a dead hang (arms are straight) 18:54 that's almost a half marathon 18:54 and that was without breaks too 18:54 just a steady pace 18:54 pull yourself up until your chin clears the bar 18:54 lower yourself back down until arms are straight again (dead hang) 18:54 rinse/repeat 18:54 those are hard i suck at pullups lol 18:54 ^ people cheat on this more than anything 18:55 i seen people do it in the gym K2 18:55 lotta guys jump lol 18:55 yeah 18:55 and they never go down to dead hang 18:55 when i was regularly attending a gym i could sometimes clear one or two pullups 18:55 using an assisted lift mechanism can help a lot on getting good at pullups 18:55 that's *it* 18:55 yeah i think i need that 18:55 thats how i started 18:56 i miss gym lol 18:56 i think they sorta reopeneed at one opint 18:56 but i havent dared go to one since the whole corona thing 18:56 started with about 80 lbs assist, after first week i shaved that down to 50 lbs 18:56 for pushups my problem is I want to arch my back. have to very consciously keep my pelvis in the right position to keep it flat 18:56 (doing 4 sets of 10) 18:56 aosdict: i probably need to think about this more to do it right 18:56 after a month i could 2 sets of 10 unassisted 18:56 i think i was probably arching my back also, or the other way idk 18:56 <@luxidream> thanks K2 18:56 could do 18:57 which way around is arching 18:57 <@luxidream> I've been cheating a little I think >.< 18:57 luxi no prob anytime 18:57 <@luxidream> but I can do like 18:57 <@luxidream> 10 properly 18:57 resistance bands can help with assist too 18:57 my buddy got a pullup bar for his room 18:57 ok brbr 18:57 i could try to get one of those maybe 18:58 aoei: in the context of pushups, arching is your back doing \_/ 18:58 ok yeah i thikn i was doing that a bit 18:58 the cow in cat-cow yoga terms 18:58 :D 18:58 yoga is cool too 18:58 i got way more flexible doing that 18:59 not really done it in ages tho 19:28 -!- spontiff has joined #tnnt 19:50 -!- jeremiahL has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:52 -!- jeremiahL has joined #tnnt 19:59 -!- Umbire has joined #tnnt 20:09 -!- HanClinto has joined #tnnt 20:12 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #tnnt 20:13 -!- HanClinto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50 aoei, if the choice's between python and javascript, I'd say javascript (or preferably typescript) 20:50 because python package management is a disaster 20:50 python is OK for scripts that only use the standard library 20:53 you have plain pip, pipenv, poetry and maybe more, and none of them is ideal 20:54 <{Demo}> python package management pisses me off 20:54 <{Demo}> if you wanna distribute anything with any deps, plz include a dockerfile 20:54 <{Demo}> im not playing games with all the shitty bullshit around making python deps work 20:54 just the fact that there isn't a single "standard" tool for basic package management is telling 20:55 and this has been a problem for years 20:55 so I don't expect it to be solved any time soon 20:59 {Demo}, docker solves the deployment problem (by sweeping all the garbage under the carpet) but setting up a development environment may still be a problem 21:00 cool jilles, thanks for weighing in 21:01 Rust could also be a nice option, if there were more people willing to learn it 21:01 I'm seeing more and more examples of it being used almost as if it's a scripting language 21:01 if there are libraries for the subject area it works reasonably well 21:04 <{Demo}> i think aoei has some interest in rust? 21:05 yeah im tempted to do Rust 21:05 but I thought other people might be resistant 21:05 and my other (purely selfish) concern is i may need to learn something like JS because I'm not sure im gettinng jobs out of Rust 21:43 pipenv is the only reasonable way to make python package management 21:43 or at least more sensible than anythign else i have seen 21:43 pipenv is basically npm/node_modules if i understood coorectly 22:12 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:28 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:51 -!- HanClinto has joined #tnnt 23:03 Sadly it's not. 23:08 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:12 -!- HanClinto has quit [] 23:14 -!- HanClinto has joined #tnnt 23:18 -!- jeremiahL has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:29 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33 -!- spontiff has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36 -!- tonehack has joined #tnnt 23:50 -!- HanClinto has quit [Remote host closed the connection]