00:04 -!- Bliss56 has joined #tnnt 01:01 <@Tone> What counts as a conduct for the Most Conducts trophy? 01:02 <@Tone> Is it the vanilla conducts plus Elberethless, or are any other conducts from the Rules page counted? 01:04 verifying 01:04 there was some internal discussion about it 01:14 right now its still all vanilla + e-wordless. that might change. i dont think we'd tack on the newer conducts to that 01:15 but we'll see 01:16 <@Tone> Cool 01:17 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #tnnt 01:17 <@Tone> huh, is permadeaf tracked in vanilla now? Didn't know that was an option actually 01:18 -!- deadnoob has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:18 its not 01:19 xnethack tracked a few different things as conducts, figured it'd be cool to add them to tnnt 01:19 more conducts to try for = a good thing imo 01:19 <@Tone> ah, so that will be an rc option for the tnnt variant then? 01:19 permadeaf and permahallu 01:20 -!- deadnoob has joined #tnnt 01:20 permahallu = slex mode 01:22 they are technically roleplay options, but that's just semantics 01:23 <@Tone> I just meant that you have to configure them before you start your game 01:25 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:25 those yeah 01:25 i dont recall off the top of my head what you need to set in your rc cfg 01:25 we should post those command son the site 01:28 i should know these, i added them to evilhack... 01:28 lemme look 01:30 blind, nudist, deaf, hallu 01:32 so just add blind or !blind, etc? 01:32 the default is false for all of them of course, so you don't really need the !blind !deaf etc 01:32 right 01:33 actually I can't remember if it's hallu or hallucinating 01:33 but hallu will work instead of having to add 'hallucinating' ? 01:33 hmm 01:33 in the menu its 'hallucinating' 01:34 then that's what you have in the rcfile 01:34 yup 01:34 so - blind, nudist, deaf, hallucinating 01:35 ^ add any of those to your rc cfg to enable those conducts. has to be a new game 01:37 <@Tone> Cool, thanks 01:37 np 01:38 good question to ask ;) 02:26 -!- Bliss56 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00 -!- tonehack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:05 -!- AntiGulp has joined #tnnt 03:12 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 04:30 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:18 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #tnnt 06:18 -!- raisse has joined #tnnt 06:19 -!- AntiGulp has joined #tnnt 06:48 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 07:41 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:09 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:24 -!- raisse has joined #tnnt 08:28 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:55 -!- raisse has joined #tnnt 10:00 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05 -!- raisse has joined #tnnt 13:14 -!- BEHiker91W has joined #tnnt 13:16 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:20 -!- deadnoob has joined #tnnt 13:30 ooh! two different ghosties that aren't my own ghostie! 13:34 :) 13:39 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:46 -!- PsyMar has joined #tnnt 13:46 suggestion: tnnt-specific subreddit so we don’t flood /r/nethack with posts about tnnt scoring/achievements/etc 13:56 PsyMar - there's been 3 posts about tnnt so far this year on /r/nethack 13:57 what's the threshold for a particular subject creating a flood of posts? 13:57 now, of course, I don't have a bag, and a blessed magic lamp hit the 5% chance of a hostile djinni 14:00 Yeah, making a tnnt subreddit would just create a ghost town 14:03 10 months of the year, anyway 14:03 (I expect tnnt posts 3 weeks before and 1-2 weeks after november) 14:34 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:51 -!- luxidream has joined #tnnt 14:58 -!- raisse has joined #tnnt 15:05 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:16 -!- raisse has joined #tnnt 15:55 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:01 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #tnnt 16:08 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36 <@luxidream> aosdict: I just don't like how any achievement a player might obtain in tnnt isn't valid if tnnt is lower difficulty than vanilla 16:37 why isn't it valid 16:38 it's also hard to add *anything* without it being construable as lower difficulty than vanilla. devnull had some random items in its challenge branches, so technically it's lower difficulty? 16:39 <@luxidream> if I get a speedrun using the swap chest or arena is it the same as getting one in vanilla? 16:40 some would say no, some would say yes 16:40 well this isnt exactly vanilla so... 16:41 if you do a speedrun in tnnt, it means you did a speedrun in... tnnt 16:41 catch my drift? 16:41 and not using the swapchest is now a conduct 16:41 so thats tracked 16:42 and whether you finished the DT quest and arena are also tracked 16:43 can @luxidream resist the lure of the swapchest and the DT quest? 16:43 inquiring minds want to know 16:43 <@luxidream> I can just enter the DT quest for the free stuff 16:43 <@luxidream> and break the statues in the arena lobby 16:44 we should assess a luck penalty for that :P 16:44 :P 16:44 <@luxidream> why aren't they empty though 16:44 <@luxidream> I can also blank the scrolls of missing code 16:44 <@luxidream> maybe make them like mail scrolls 16:45 nope 16:45 you gotta protect them things 16:45 in that case, finding a scroll of missing code is like finding a random scroll of blank paper 16:46 it's possible that a dungeon level just generates an additional scroll of blank paper 16:47 <@luxidream> is entry to the DT quest tracked 16:48 <@luxidream> the items in there are a lot more significant 16:48 entry is not tracked 16:50 welp 16:50 time to nerf the DT quest 16:50 thanks luxi 16:50 you HAD to draw attention to it didnt ya 16:50 <@luxidream> nerf arena 😛 16:50 speedrunners reign supreme 16:51 :) 16:51 we must do everything to appease the speedrunners 16:51 pffft 16:51 <@luxidream> who are the others? 16:52 <@Tone> The same criticism applies to someone who might want to do a really difficult conduct game or get a long streak or whatever else 16:52 @luxidream in all honesty, if you do a TNNT speedrun and someone claims it's not valid because you used X feature or goodies, you have a ttyrec that can prove you never use them 16:53 or look at your dumplog and show that the overview doesn't contain 'Devteam Office' branch anywhere 17:01 -!- luxidream has joined #tnnt 17:08 -!- luxidream has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08 -!- luxidream has joined #tnnt 17:09 -!- AntiGulp has joined #tnnt 17:36 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 17:58 so here’s my take 17:58 if you want a tournament with no added stuff that can potentially make things easier 17:58 play junethack 17:59 I mean I have no problems with the bonus content 17:59 -!- PsyMar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01 the option to start a game with no bonus content would be nice though 18:01 what, no conducts and all? 18:02 luxidream that pretty much defeats the purpose 18:02 tnnt without the bonus content is just playing vanilla nethack 18:02 haha 18:03 Could we make regular 363dev games count towards tnnt? 18:04 the conducts are fine, just no optional branches 18:04 For those who really absolutely don't want anything to do with TNNT. 18:04 But still want ascensions and conducts counted. 18:04 it's not pointless because TNNT is strictly better 18:04 aosdict ugh no 18:05 imagine dev/null saying 'hey yeah go ahead and play regular nethack too, it all counts' 18:05 um... no 18:05 well you can in dev null 18:05 you can choose to opt out of the challenges 18:05 same in tnnt 18:05 no one is making you do devteam quest 18:06 the only people who would play the vanilla version would be trying for some achievement 18:06 no one is making you do any of the achievemnts are trophies 18:06 or 18:09 this is kind of an odd conversation 18:10 'i want to do your tournament without seeing any of the extra things added to it that makes it what it is' 18:11 well this WAS a legitimate thing to do in devnull 18:11 you want to rack up conducts, streaks, etc without worrying about the challenges. if you refused every challenge the game was identical to vanilla 18:13 yup 18:13 so tnnt isnt really different in that regard. the custom branch quests are the extra challenges - dont do them if you dont want to 18:14 luxidream was there an actual problem? i'm failing to see one 18:15 just saying that since this is a vanilla-adjacent tournament, 'I want to do your tournament without seeing any of the extra things added to it' is a totally valid opinion 18:15 replace 'seeing' with 'doing' 18:15 big difference 18:15 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:16 <@luxidream> if I ascend sub1 for example but I bump into the arena portal I have a lot of explaining to do :p 18:17 hah 18:17 <@luxidream> it won’t ever be a real ascension from some people’s POV 18:17 thats finwe 18:17 <@luxidream> certainly not an official world record 18:17 *fine 18:17 cant please everybody 18:17 nor should you try 18:18 <@luxidream> same goes for any insane streak or conduct or turn count speedrun 18:18 -!- raisse has joined #tnnt 18:19 honestly, if you skipped the DT branch and the new branch we're making, its basically vanilla 18:20 the trophies, conducts and achievements will just happen as you go along 18:20 no controversy to see here folks, move along now... 18:32 <@Tone> Yeah I brought this up as feedback after last year's 18:33 <@Tone> If there's an easy way to show that you didn't use any custom content then it probably isn't that controversial though 18:34 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #tnnt 18:38 <@Tone> but more generally I don't think it's unreasonable for people who are competing for leaderboards in the big annual vanilla tournament to want their accomplishments to count outside of the tournament (eg if someone gets a new world record speedrun time or set of conducts). It's good for competition within the tournament imo 18:51 thats all possible as things stand now 19:01 -!- BEHiker91W has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02 <@luxidream> so let’s say Tone gets shafted to the rogue level, on a turncount speedrun 19:02 <@luxidream> he goes up the nearest staircase to figure out where he is 19:02 <@luxidream> enters DT level 19:03 ttyrec still can be used to prove he didn't gain any benefit there 19:04 <@luxidream> the run is now invalid in vanilla terms for entering bonus content 19:04 <@luxidream> It’s also slower because he has to enter and leave the DT level 19:05 now we're nit-picking 19:12 <@luxidream> If I’m a speed cuber and I get a record with a cube that’s 1 mm larger or smaller than the standard 19:12 <@luxidream> do I still have the record? 19:17 <@luxidream> is there a panel that reviews my performance and decides if the size of the cube affected my performance enough for it to be legitimate? 19:20 <@luxidream> I never said that I was only interested in playing TNNT without the optional branches. I just won’t be interested in going for any records if the bonus content is there. 19:30 -!- Grasshopper has joined #tnnt 19:32 well.. all I can say is, just dont do the bonus content if you're looking to break a record. the dumplog will show what you did ro didnt do. if anyone gives you shit because it was while playing tnnt, they're either trolling you for the lulz or they really just dont understand how tnnt works. either way, I wouldnt worry about it 19:33 i've contact guinness world records organization, they'll be onsite the entire month of november 19:33 ^ that's trolling for the lulz 19:35 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:48 ... (back from dinner with friends, reading backscroll) what's the point exactly? 19:49 people complaining that if they explicitly play tnnt they get the tnnt stuff? sheesh, if you don't want it, then don't play it, it's that easy 19:49 tnnt is something you do, not something that happens to you 19:50 I don't think it's reasonable to nerf things because some players who voluntarily play don't want them 19:52 it's very, very tenuous to claim that a new worldwide speed record was set in a TNNT game, that it's not actually a new record because there was a branch with a couple spellbooks in it. 19:52 *if a new worldwide speed record 20:01 AND 20:01 who's the authority exactly on any of this? 20:01 *no one* 20:02 luxi, if you got a sub 1 hour ascendion on tnnt, i'd still consider it a major accomplishment, even if you did accidently ran into the DT level for 2 sec 20:02 *ascension 20:03 well... spelling and grammar seem to be problems for me today 20:05 <@Tone> It was a bigger deal last year when there was no indication of whether the swap chest was used, but I believe that's been addressed this time around 20:06 it has been 20:06 No, we had a "put item into swap chest" achievement last year 20:06 that's a prereq for taking anything out 20:06 now, of course, we directly track taking out 20:07 aosdict i think what he means is, having ti actually listed in the dumplog under conducts, etc 20:07 apparently some players are of the mindset, if its not in the dumplog, it doesnt count 20:07 *sigh* 20:08 -!- Grasshopper has joined #tnnt 20:09 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:31 -!- luxidream has joined #tnnt 20:43 -!- Grasshopper has joined #tnnt 20:59 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 21:10 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:11 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #tnnt 22:21 -!- tonehack has joined #tnnt 22:22 -!- luxidream has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23 -!- luxidream has joined #tnnt 22:30 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:08 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]