00:01 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 376 points, 738 turns, killed by Mr. Asidonhopo; the shopkeeper, while praying 00:06 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 148 points, 477 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted jackal 00:09 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Fem-Law), 8147 points, 6141 turns, killed by a purple worm 00:12 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 7798 points, 4934 turns, killed by an acid venom (and 39 other games not reported) 00:12 <@rikersan> ah yeah, at 12 hp and anu gives me the castle code, not the healing 00:14 [US] [D]: Smugzug (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2162 points, 3618 turns, killed by a fire ant 00:19 YANI: Generalize cockatrice egg mechanics to all eggs. If the corpse is acidic, so is the egg. If poisonous, so is the egg. Maybe even add (reduced?) intrinsic odds for eating eggs. 00:21 [US] [D]: thegame (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 2637 points, 4638 turns, killed by a soldier ant 00:21 can you blank novels into spellbooks? 00:21 well that's not necessary true aosdict 00:22 <@rikersan> somehow I got agg monster and I don't like it :( 00:22 <@rikersan> I'm a caveman, so I'm very confused 00:22 <@bubbles> @riker get the mqantle of wrath 00:23 <@rikersan> not sure what chaos I have yet, but I'll probably keep it until post-quest 00:23 <@rikersan> since I do'nt wnat to have to leave the upstair on goal 00:24 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 234 points, 1855 turns, killed by a falling rock 00:27 -!- ichbinmiah has joined #hardfought 00:29 [US] [D]: Smugzug (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 217 points, 902 turns, killed by a boulder 00:30 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1443 points, 1765 turns, burned by a tower of flame, while frozen by a potion 00:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law) killed Death, on T:56996 00:32 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law) killed Famine, on T:57023 00:33 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 00:33 <@rikersan> huh, uncontrolled polyself repeatedly (looking for something to fit through a corner, so I could grab a stuck and stolen object) gave me like 5 levels, I'm lvl 22 now, started at 157 00:33 <@rikersan> didn't seem to cost me much in the way of useful ability scores either 00:33 [US] [D]: bebing (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 165776 points, 20986 turns, killed by a minotaur, while paralyzed by a monster 00:36 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Law), 1967 points, 3671 turns, killed by a fire ant 00:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law) killed Pestilence, on T:57094 00:37 [US] [Q]: IceBox (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 43475 points, 16586 turns, quit (and 8 other games not reported) 00:38 [US] [D]: iyarkonan (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 57546 points, 22202 turns, killed by a killer bee, while frozen by a monster's gaze 00:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law), 3380708 points, T:57109, ascended 00:39 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/s/samiam/nethack/dumplog/1573145976.nh.html 00:42 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 420 points, 1509 turns, killed by a bolt of cold 00:46 fucking pyrolisks have become a menace 00:46 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2635 points, 3173 turns, killed by a black pudding (and 59 other games not reported) 00:48 [US] [D]: k2 (Cav-Dwa-Mal-Law), 988 points, 2533 turns, killed by a sewer rat 00:48 [US] [D]: thegame (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 2008 points, 2504 turns, killed by a nalfeshnee 00:51 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 148 points, 800 turns, killed by Ms. Sipaliwini; the shopkeeper 00:51 [US] [D]: Smugzug (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 1070 points, 1851 turns, killed by a gray unicorn 00:53 [US] [D]: iyarkonan (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 37 points, 189 turns, killed by a water moccasin 00:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] parad0xx (Pri Hum Mal Law), 392 points, T:545, killed by a crossbow bolt 00:57 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2558 points, 4435 turns, killed by a bolt of fire 01:04 anyone else thinks that a bear trap should disarm itself after it's sprung? 01:05 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 611 points, 1331 turns, killed by a dwarf, while frozen by a potion 01:05 YANI ^ 01:06 nah 01:06 maybe by wrenching it apart you reset it 01:06 i think its cousin should show up and beat you up while you're trapped 01:07 the cousin... of the bear trap 01:07 the rabbit trap 01:09 [US] [D]: quervo1 (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1954 points, 2568 turns, killed by a dwarf 01:10 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2588 points, 3079 turns, killed by a gray unicorn (and 61 other games not reported) 01:12 <@luxidream> aosdict: would you happen to know what roles commonly have strength adjusted to accomodate for their starting inventory? 01:12 <@luxidream> I'm thinking knight, maybe arc? 01:13 Commonly? As in the likelihood? I do not know. 01:13 Those are good guesses though. 01:13 Knight almost certainly. 01:14 Probably the best way to get data on this would be to do the paxed monte carlo simulator and roll up thousands of characters of each role and see how many needed to adjust their strength 01:15 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 642 points, 2376 turns, killed by a giant bat 01:15 <@luxidream> ah, paxed has that? 01:15 <@luxidream> I was trying to write that myself actually 01:15 <@luxidream> where is it? 01:16 I don't know what exactly he did or where it lives or how applicable it is to this, I just have a recollection of paxed doing some sort of test like this. 01:16 What's the purpose? To see which roles get the most "free" ability scores? 01:17 <@luxidream> I was wondering what the highest base stat total you could roll on a character was 01:17 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 01:18 <@luxidream> and forgot to take that into account 01:18 <@bubbles> Don;'t you get the -2/+4 before that? 01:19 <@luxidream> That's right 01:20 <@bubbles> So the theoretical max would be +4 to everything, which seems like it would be better than str/con getting bumped for carry 01:20 now i have a problem... 01:21 [US] [D]: sflicht (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 11494 points, 9931 turns, killed by a snake, while frozen by a monster's gaze 01:22 <@luxidream> yeah it's probably not possible for kni to be burdened after +4 to everything 01:22 <@luxidream> even with 0 str rolls 01:22 <@bubbles> 13+4/13+4 I think 01:22 the dark one just stole my magic mirror of merlin 01:23 <@bubbles> ah no 10+4 for con 01:23 so now i have to lure him up to the top quest level 01:24 [US] [D]: iyarkonan (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3461 points, 14125 turns, killed by the Oracle 01:25 @bubbles remind me what the -2/+4 does 01:25 <@bubbles> There;s a 5% chance for each stat to receive a [-2..+4] adjustment 01:25 <@bubbles> 5% per stat, more correctly 01:26 i. hate. vanilla. nethack. 01:27 <@bubbles> You love it porkybub 01:27 <@bubbles> in bubblehack you can pick items up and drop them now \o./ 01:28 augh my arm is dislocated 01:28 ^^ that guy 01:29 [US] ShivanHunter has 100 consecutive games less than 100 turns. 01:30 <@luxidream> arg, the wiki table goes str/int/wis/dex/con/cha 01:30 <@luxidream> whyyy 01:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Pir Inc Mal Neu), 10973 points, T:4058, killed by a little dog 01:31 go fix it then 01:31 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 593 points, 2275 turns, killed by a coyote 01:31 cause you cannot put on a HOOA inside the quest 01:31 so him stealing my porked MMOM and dying would have made it unretrievable 01:34 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1793 points, 1753 turns, killed by a dwarf, while praying 01:37 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Law), 58 points, 707 turns, killed by a small mimic 01:37 [US] [Q]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1106 points, 1666 turns, quit (and 109 other games not reported) 01:43 luxidream: Traditional D&D ordering (in some editions) 01:45 -!- Kontroller has joined #hardfought 01:51 <@luxidream> interesting 01:51 <@luxidream> just not consistent with the way nethack orders it 01:52 <@luxidream> people do prioritize str/int/wis though 01:52 <@luxidream> perhaps overly so 01:59 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2518 points, 2782 turns, killed by a panther (and 13 other games not reported) 02:08 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2293 points, 4336 turns, killed by a killer bee 02:10 [US] [D]: mangotiger (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2469 points, 2562 turns, killed by a killer bee 02:11 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 3148 points, T:4124, killed by a giant mimic 02:12 +5 COMR and two +4 red/silver DSM in the cehst :) 02:14 [US] [D]: AntiVirus (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1454754 points, 45050 turns, killed by the invisible Wizard of Yendor (with the Amulet) 02:19 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 540 points, 1585 turns, killed by a killer bee 02:22 wow 02:22 $lastgame AntiVirus 02:22 Porkman: [US] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AntiVirus/tnnt/dumplog/1572909912.tnnt.html 02:23 :( 02:23 how did he get smooshed like that 02:23 i see, ran out of HP and no healing items 02:24 yep 02:24 A mindflayer ended this game 02:24 ate my brain and gave me crazy amnesia 02:24 I forgot almost every item 02:25 so then, no healing items 02:25 and also I was an idiot and kept Meleeing Rodney instead of switching to my amulet of life-saving 02:25 and of course, forgetting most of the dungeon levels keeps you busy for a long time 02:26 so more visits from Rodney, more cursing, more time for things to go pear-shaped 02:26 it was a good game, I had fun. My best run with a Valk so far 02:27 !booze AntiVirus 02:27 * Beholder throws AntiVirus a fifth of the hooch, decanted by FCCBot at 1 degrees Celsius. 02:27 [US] [D]: SkippitoFriskito (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 28181 points, 10398 turns, killed by a fire elemental 02:27 Have you never ascended one? 02:27 no never 02:28 I'm actually not all that experienced. I have 1 wizard ascension under my belt 02:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Cav Bat Mal Law) was given their Quest, on T:36820 02:28 and that is all 02:28 try a neutral human valkyrie 02:29 you can wish for...interesting stuff as a neutral 02:29 ^_^ 02:29 [EU] [D]: Anerag (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 53 points, 487 turns, killed by a falling rock 02:30 [US] [D]: thegame (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 1911 points, 5482 turns, killed by a wand 02:32 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 711 points, 1171 turns, killed by a gnome 02:33 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2850 points, 2772 turns, killed by an orcish arrow (and 11 other games not reported) 02:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Cav Bat Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed wand of cancellation", on T:37631 02:34 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 02:35 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 142 points, 393 turns, killed by Mr. Sablja; the shopkeeper 02:37 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 4 points, 197 turns, killed by a goblin (and 91 other games not reported) 02:39 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Cav Bat Mal Law) killed the Chromatic Dragon, on T:38677 02:39 <@rikersan> oh thank god the cancellation worked 02:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Cav Bat Mal Law) became the Arm of the Law, on T:39241 02:47 <@rikersan> huh, no gift or anything? 02:48 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 605 points, 1156 turns, killed by a dwarf (and one other game not reported) 02:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Cav Bat Mal Law), 560878 points, T:39985, killed by a parrot, while praying 02:52 <@rikersan> fuck nightgaunts 02:52 <@rikersan> oh wel gg 02:52 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1787 points, 2248 turns, killed by a werewolf (and 23 other games not reported) 02:59 @luxidream maybe it was called the magic trap boogie back in '06 03:00 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 858 points, 1061 turns, killed by a gnome lord 03:02 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 733 points, 1245 turns, killed by a gnome (and 48 other games not reported) 03:05 <@luxidream> that appears to have been the last time anyone has ever called it that 😛 03:05 I actually did that in my last game because there was a magic trap in the Valley temple doorway. 03:05 That game me 4 charisma. 03:07 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 880 points, 1164 turns, killed by a gecko (and 11 other games not reported) 03:09 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 78 points, 224 turns, killed by a sewer rat (and 17 other games not reported) 03:09 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 172 points, 634 turns, killed by Mr. Demirci; the shopkeeper, while frozen by a potion 03:09 <@luxidream> Did you call it the magic trap boogie though? 03:10 No 03:11 <@luxidream> I didn't think so :p 03:11 I hear that magicbymccauley calls it the magic trap boogie 03:11 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 53 points, T:533, killed by a fox 03:11 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 27 points, T:66, killed by a water moccasin 03:12 -!- ruffni has joined #hardfought 03:13 git blame 03:18 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1120 points, 2165 turns, killed by a dwarf, while reading a book (and 8 other games not reported) 03:18 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 183 points, 724 turns, killed by a bolt of lightning (and 2 other games not reported) 03:19 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 16 points, 207 turns, fell into a pit (and one other game not reported) 03:20 Is it possible to use tiles with https://au.hardfought.org/hterm/ ? 03:20 <@luxidream> yes 03:21 <@luxidream> pick square font, and the variant you are playing 03:23 That didn't work... 03:23 [US] [D]: EndlessMike (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 754 points, 1735 turns, killed by brainlessness 03:24 <@luxidream> do you have OPTIONS=vt_tiledata in your rcfile? 03:24 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1756 points, 1383 turns, killed by a giant beetle (and 4 other games not reported) 03:24 Andrio you have to have OPTIONS=vt_tiledata in your config 03:25 I do though, and it's showing as true in the options menu. 03:25 <@luxidream> Are you trying to use it with curses? 03:26 Yes 03:26 ah 03:26 cant 03:26 ah.. 03:26 It is cursed. 03:26 heh 03:26 just tested, its working fine on au server in regular tty mode 03:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Hlf Fem Law), 1149 points, T:2174, killed by a dwarf 03:28 Hm, the tiles don't seem to line up properly. 03:29 ah, just doesn't work with IBMgraphics 03:36 i love how the RNG gives you just about everything from a ludios polypile except the one thing you are looking for 03:37 <@rikersan> did you not want 500 ring mails 03:37 no. i wanted some water walking boots 03:38 instead i got speed, fumble, kicking, levitation, jumping 03:38 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2828 points, 1890 turns, killed by an acidic glob 03:38 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a dart on an altar, on T:3072 03:40 [US] [D]: thegame (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 4626 points, 3508 turns, killed by a leocrotta 03:40 [EU] [D]: Anerag (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 7350 points, 5368 turns, killed by a gnome lord 03:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] parad0xx (Tou Hum Mal Neu) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:8827 03:42 why does branchporting now land you at the top of sokoban instead of the bottom? 03:42 <@rikersan> normally it takes you to the deepest level visited 03:43 <@rikersan> with the changes to level diff it probably runs with that 03:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] parad0xx (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2747 points, T:9220, killed by a dwarf, while praying 03:49 Because Sokoban goes upward 03:57 wtf just happened? 03:57 I was on Astral and next thing I know I'm back at the hardfought menu. 03:57 I was doing fine, no DYWYPI message. 03:59 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:4777 03:59 $lastgame bouquet 03:59 bouquet: [US] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/tnnt/dumplog/1572926990.tnnt.html 04:00 K2: can you recover my game. I didn't die. It just suddenly quit and now it's gone :( 04:00 tnnt game 04:00 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 3860 points, T:4839, killed by a gas cloud 04:03 weird 04:03 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 688 points, 2135 turns, killed by a homunculus, while sleeping 04:03 -!- TheGame20____ has joined #hardfought 04:04 just... BOOM! 04:04 only if you're not busy. 04:04 yeah there's an emergency save 04:04 one sec 04:06 MSGTYPE=stop "* needs food\, badly!" 04:06 * Line 83: MSGTYPE regex error: Invalid preceding regular expression. 04:06 04:06 1 error in /dgldir/userdata/b/bouquet/tnnt/bouquet.tnntrc. 04:06 04:06 monsndx - could not index monster (7fcc4785ad30) 04:06 04:06 1573280509 bouquet: panic monsndx - could not index monster (7fcc4785ad30) 04:06 remove the '*' from that line 04:06 index monster gets me every time 04:07 heh. 04:07 [US] [D]: allanb (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 914 points, 3743 turns, killed by a wand 04:07 ok try now after fixing your cfg 04:08 config fixed 04:08 fire it up 04:08 woo! thank you 04:08 \o/ 04:09 [US] [A]: bouquet (Pri-Hum-Fem-Law), 2565492 points, 57512 turns, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/tnnt/dumplog/1573280509.tnnt.html 04:09 I was literally 5 steps from my Astral altar. Wouldn't have counted as an astral splat :P 04:09 I think that's a 2-game streak, maybe? 04:10 scoreboard will show if it is 04:10 ya, it was 04:11 to think that just 5 years ago I couldn't even make it past sokoban. 04:11 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 368 points, 782 turns, killed by a brown mold 04:12 thank you K2, you're totally my hero 04:14 hah 04:14 welcome \o/ 04:14 i need to go to sleep 04:17 <@rikersan> !streak bouquet 04:17 @rikersan: [hdf-us] bouquet Max[xnh]: 2 (2019-01-22 - 2019-01-31). 04:18 $streak bouquet 04:18 Tangles: [US] bouquet Max: 2 (2019-11-05 - 2019-11-11)(current). 04:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Hlf Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:4886 04:22 ooooh i found a bug 04:23 so, say you are in a vault, and the guard comes in through the tunnel you made, and your pet kills the guard before it gets hostile with you, the vault becomes walled again 04:23 <@luxidream> stop porking nethack 04:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 447332 points, T:42943, quit 04:25 oink 04:25 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 206 points, 1501 turns, killed by Ms. Syktywkar; the shopkeeper 04:25 <@rikersan> !role dnh 04:25 @rikersan: ranger 04:26 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:26 <@rikersan> !role dnh 04:26 @rikersan: ranger 04:26 <@rikersan> !role dnh 04:26 @rikersan: ranger 04:26 <@rikersan> !role dnh 04:26 @rikersan: binder 04:26 <@rikersan> how exactly does beholder even do it's randomness, I'm beginning to mistrust it 04:27 I'm guessing it's based off the time. 04:27 Chris_ANG: Message from bubbles_nh at 2019-11-06 16:56 EST: Poly into a Retriever and I demon gated a friend in? 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Porkman: convict 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Porkman: noble 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Porkman: noble 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Porkman: ranger 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Porkman: archeologist 04:27 nope, it just wants you to play a ranger 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Chris_ANG: ranger 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Chris_ANG: priest 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Chris_ANG: healer 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Chris_ANG: rogue 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Chris_ANG: samurai 04:27 !role dnh 04:27 Chris_ANG: troubadour 04:27 Ok, yeah 04:28 Clearly you gotta. 04:28 <@rikersan> this happened earlier was well 04:28 <@rikersan> specifically a clock rogue (???) 04:28 <@rikersan> it gave me the exact combo 2x in a row 04:28 <@rikersan> !role dnh 04:28 @rikersan: convict 04:29 can i be an incantifier convict... 04:30 <@rikersan> yeah 04:30 <@rikersan> please don't abuse this too much 04:30 <@luxidream> if you make a variant, would you become forkman instead 04:33 Something tells me my next role should be ranger... 04:34 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Pir Gul Mal Neu), 532 points, T:1537, cut down by a gnome lord 04:38 so which dlvl is the deathamtch arena? 04:39 well, they have taken away the more fun abuses 04:39 like infinite potions to polypile 04:39 (porkhack will be extremely abusable!) 04:41 can't find the deathmatch arena... 04:41 what DLVL is it supposed to be? 04:43 [US] [D]: bouquet (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 517 points, 1387 turns, killed by a wererat 04:44 I heard deathmatch is the level above medusa 04:44 I haven't found it though 04:44 yeah, it's a portal on the level above Medusa 04:45 oh shoot. wizards get TC innately at lvl 17? 04:45 i never knew. i always haveit before then 04:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Hdr-Rog Dro Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3248 04:46 hur hur hur 04:47 let's see who i get to kill 04:47 bouquet the canoness 04:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Dro Mal Neu), 3102 points, T:3482, killed by a dwarf 04:49 damn 04:49 drinking a ton of full healing she is 04:51 $lastgame bouquet 04:51 Porkman: [US] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/tnnt/dumplog/1573446954.tnnt.html 04:52 $asc bouquet 04:52 Porkman: [EU] No ascensions for bouquet. | [US] bouquet has ascended 2 times in 19 games (10.53%): 1xPri 1xWiz, 2xHum, 1xLaw 1xNeu, 2xFem. | [AU] No ascensions for bouquet. 04:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Hlf Fem Law) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:10501 04:57 hmmm 04:58 the deathmatch arena makes for an amazing stash location 04:59 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1970 points, 2637 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted giant spider 05:00 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Pir Inf Mal Cha) had The Marauder's Map bestowed upon him by the storm, on T:1377 05:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Hlf Fem Law), 28659 points, T:11956, killed by an ogre lord 05:14 <@rikersan> $lastasc bouquet 05:14 @rikersan: [US] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/tnnt/dumplog/1573280509.tnnt.html 05:18 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 864 points, 2497 turns, killed by a magic missile 05:25 [US] [Q]: mangotiger (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 8972 points, 6770 turns, quit (and 5 other games not reported) 05:26 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1610 points, 1523 turns, killed by a wand (and one other game not reported) 05:31 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 157 points, 376 turns, killed by a sewer rat (and 6 other games not reported) 05:34 intrinsic polycontrol ^_^ 05:37 <@ShivanHunter> lmao code scroll in a shop 05:37 whow much for? 05:37 and what did that shirt do anwyay 05:37 telepathy and luck? 05:38 <@ShivanHunter> 9 zm 05:38 <@ShivanHunter> and it's warning and luck 05:40 <@ShivanHunter> lol and a 1x3 armor shop, 1 of which is a mimic 05:41 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 05:47 <@ShivanHunter> Mike Stephenson throws an exception! You are hit by an exception! You die... DYWYPI? 05:54 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2033 points, 3596 turns, killed by a giant beetle (and 35 other games not reported) 05:58 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 12 points, 140 turns, killed by an arrow (and 62 other games not reported) 05:59 [US] [D]: Luxidream (Mon-Hum-Mal-Law), 590215 points, 49169 turns, petrified by a cockatrice 06:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-11 06:00 UTC: Games: 968, Asc: 1, Scum: 894. 382651 turns, 5020495 points. 4d 03:55 gametime. (66%Wiz), (51%Hum), (45%Cha), (80%Mal), 19d 17:59 remaining. 06:02 [US] [D]: thegame (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 2290 points, 3170 turns, killed by a priestess of Set, while paralyzed by a monster 06:05 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 413 points, 315 turns, killed by a gnome (and 18 other games not reported) 06:10 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Pir Inf Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:5763 06:12 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 461 points, 1094 turns, killed by a bugbear (and 50 other games not reported) 06:12 [US] [D]: AntiVirus (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 1472 points, 2402 turns, killed by a paper golem, while frozen by a monster's gaze 06:15 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Pir Inf Mal Cha), 10138 points, T:6059, cut down by a green mold warrior 06:17 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 1102 points, 3411 turns, killed by a rope golem 06:21 -!- j has joined #hardfought 06:24 [EU] [D]: Anerag (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2142 points, 4191 turns, killed by a gnome lord 06:26 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:34 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 06:36 hmmm 06:36 i need a silver saber 06:37 [US] [D]: dingotron (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 368 points, 1401 turns, killed by a small mimic 06:39 The watch captain might be nice enough to give you one. 06:41 he didnt 06:41 and i have already polypiled ludios 06:41 ahwell 06:42 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 449 points, 2345 turns, killed by a fox, while frozen by a monster's gaze 06:43 hmm, it seems that i double attack whether i am dual wielding or not, in elvenking form 06:44 so 2x grayswandir hits > grayswandir + saber 06:44 If you're in a form that has lots of weapon attacks... 06:45 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:45 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 102 points, 567 turns, killed by a bolt of fire 06:45 elvenking attacks twice and doesnt hate silver 06:45 any better thoughts? 06:45 aleax maybe 06:56 Depending on what you're fighting, a master mind flayer may work well, unless you've genocided those. 06:57 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1553 points, 3931 turns, killed by a wolf 07:02 [US] [D]: mangotiger (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1101 points, 1275 turns, killed by a giant ant (and 2 other games not reported) 07:06 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 306 points, 1835 turns, killed by a giant rat 07:15 <@luxidream> $who 07:15 @luxidream: [EU] Raisse swegen Kontroller Kejchi Anerag | [US] fionna porkman BEHiker91W allanb eraserhead97 dingotron ShivanHunter mangotiger | [AU] No current players 07:15 MMF only has one weapon attack 07:16 but i decided against youpolying that much, it drains your stats like wow 07:17 aleax swings main weapon twice + kicks 07:18 mm 07:19 <@luxidream> aleax is too slow 07:20 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 07:28 why? 07:28 hm 07:28 how about elvenkings 07:36 hah 07:36 i love detect treasure 07:36 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 6974 points, 5816 turns, killed by a soldier ant, while unconscious from rotten food 07:36 ! 07:36 !gt a 07:37 Go team %! 07:42 -!- eraserhead97 has joined #hardfought 07:44 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 4732 points, 5949 turns, killed by a mumak 07:46 !gt q 07:47 I still find it odd that titanotheres are much higher level than mumakil despite being significantly less dangerous. 07:48 if cockatrices are genocided, can eggs exist? :) 07:52 They exist and can still petrify things, but will never hatch 07:59 there was also a tin of c meat somewhere 07:59 wonder what happens if i go find it and open it 08:01 [hdf-us] [slex] Sanae (Kni Dwa Fem Neu), 328 points, T:482, killed by a monster (ettin mummy) 08:02 tin of chicken meat? mmm... mmm... good 08:09 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 10153 points, 6020 turns, killed by an invisible stalker (and 2 other games not reported) 08:18 [hdf-us] [slex] Sanae (Yau Spi Fem Cha), 1089 points, T:392, killed by a monster (tiny pseudodragon), while panic digging 08:21 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1683 points, 1973 turns, killed by a gnome (and 27 other games not reported) 08:27 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1052 points, 1572 turns, killed by a hill orc (and 28 other games not reported) 08:27 ok - that was very strange - while trying to kill Rodney in his tower, he double-troubled - I must've zapped him 2-3 times - I teleported to VS level and he followed as a trapper - after I zapped him again, he dropped an Amulet of Yendor - I tested it by putting it into the BoH - was a fake - first time I've seen him carry a fake one 08:27 he does it sometimes 08:27 the sneaky bastard 08:27 hehehe 08:28 what really would be strange would be if that was the real one :P 08:28 (grammar?) 08:28 <@ShivanHunter> double trouble has I thiiiink a 1/2 chance of haveing a fake " 08:28 <@ShivanHunter> lol 08:28 yeah - that freaked me out - got me all excited that it WAS the real one 08:30 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 144 points, 494 turns, killed by a goblin (and 22 other games not reported) 08:31 -!- ruffni has joined #hardfought 08:34 I look the FOOL floating over the Sanctum's lava moat with a stethoscope listening for the entrance 8^P (no wand this game) 08:38 [EU] [D]: arckex (Pri-Hum-Fem-Neu), 228 points, 1008 turns, killed by a magic missile 08:44 mysterious force + double-trouble is going to kill me this game - I only have 1 WoD 08:45 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 08:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 08:53 [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 187 points, 512 turns, killed by a gnome lord 08:54 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1562 points, 1914 turns, killed by a gold golem (and 16 other games not reported) 08:54 eraserhead97, lava moat? 08:54 oh this is probably not vanilla 08:55 it's vanilla - I meant the lava around Sactum Priest's room 08:56 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 145 points, 262 turns, killed by a newt (and 11 other games not reported) 08:56 its not lava :P 08:56 fire traps 08:57 you are fine without levitation 08:58 ah - I never made the distinction! only lava needs levitation? I get confused - which one can you walk with fireproof waterwalking boots? 08:59 I just remember getting my feet stuck in, what I think was lava, once... 08:59 a fire trap is just a trap that burns you with fire 08:59 which is relatively harmless when you have fire resistance 09:00 its like a monster zapping /oFire at you 09:00 eraserhead97, remember that you can use the Bell of Opening to find the door if it still has charges. 09:00 (side note: if you don't have fire resistance, it will reduce your maxhp, therefore its almost imperative that you enter gehennom with fire resistance) 09:01 @Andrio ah - thx for tip - forgot about that! 09:02 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 521 points, 801 turns, killed by a crossbow bolt (and 53 other games not reported) 09:07 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 88466 points, T:22251, killed by a bolt of fire 09:08 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 549 points, 1375 turns, killed by a dwarf (and 7 other games not reported) 09:13 I'm having real trouble with this run - at Dlvl:35 and lost Bell of Opening, Book of the Dead, Eye, and MKoT to double-trouble... WoD is spent so my only hope is to reach < before they do 09:13 -!- Xjs has joined #hardfought 09:18 [US] [D]: Wolfechu (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1694 points, 7844 turns, killed by a gnome, while sleeping 09:19 oh that soudns terrible 09:19 No wishes? 09:19 Do you have teleport control? 09:22 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought 09:25 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 09:25 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 09:27 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 357 points, T:935, killed by a gnome lord 09:38 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 3000 points, 4267 turns, killed by a rope golem 09:42 out of wishes, I have MKoT for TC - on Water now... 09:44 [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 750 points, 1312 turns, killed by a hobgoblin 09:45 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:54 DAMN - that was a tough one 09:55 Killed Rodney 11 times 8^P 09:55 the way the mysterious force was on my ass, it certainly didn't feel like chaotic to me 09:56 [US] [A]: eraserhead97 (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 1357270 points, 35434 turns, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/e/eraserhead97/tnnt/dumplog/1573377835.tnnt.html 09:56 Congrats! 09:58 ty ^^ 09:59 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 10:00 rgats 10:00 [US] [Q]: BEHiker91W (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 14015 points, 44044 turns, quit (and 6 other games not reported) 10:02 Silly high priests getting cursed weapons. 10:02 [EU] [D]: gargor (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 175 points, 628 turns, killed by a crossbow bolt 10:07 @stennowork ty ^^ 10:10 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 9978 points, 7643 turns, killed by a chameleon imitating a mastodon 10:12 -!- Guest72166 has joined #hardfought 10:13 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 218 points, 492 turns, killed by a hobbit (and 19 other games not reported) 10:14 <@bubbles> Gg again eraserhead97!! 10:19 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 536 points, 969 turns, killed by a rothe (and 9 other games not reported) 10:22 [EU] [D]: mmj (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 331 points, 1518 turns, killed by a giant bat 10:23 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 371 points, 933 turns, killed by a cave spider (and 12 other games not reported) 10:25 [EU] [D]: mmj (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 58 points, 159 turns, killed by a jackal 10:29 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 510 points, 1280 turns, killed by a wererat (and 72 other games not reported) 10:37 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1458 points, 1723 turns, killed by a Mordor orc (and 62 other games not reported) 10:41 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 290 points, 578 turns, killed by a bolt of fire (and 68 other games not reported) 10:41 [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 1918 points, 2946 turns, killed by a soldier ant 10:42 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1446 points, 2654 turns, killed by a hill orc 10:43 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 308 points, 808 turns, killed by a little dog, while sleeping 10:47 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 346 points, 949 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion 10:49 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1538 points, 1753 turns, killed by a giant ant (and 7 other games not reported) 10:52 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 170 points, 350 turns, killed by a jackal, while sleeping (and 15 other games not reported) 10:58 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1740 points, 2076 turns, killed by a rothe (and one other game not reported) 11:06 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 485 points, 974 turns, killed by a paper golem (and 59 other games not reported) 11:11 -!- merleke has joined #hardfought 11:12 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 116 points, 279 turns, killed by a wand 11:12 <@bubbles> K2 what % of games played in tnnt are shivan's? 11:13 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3877 points, 4716 turns, killed by a soldier ant 11:24 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 11:26 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2849 points, 4319 turns, killed by a watch captain (and 5 other games not reported) 11:31 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1494 points, 1546 turns, killed by a giant mimic 11:31 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 721 points, 1432 turns, killed by a kobold mummy (and 2 other games not reported) 11:46 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 11:48 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 865 points, 2315 turns, killed by a gnome 11:53 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 212 points, 631 turns, killed by a gecko 11:58 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought 12:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-11 12:00 UTC: Games: 1701, Asc: 2, Scum: 1571. 578537 turns, 6471190 points. 7d 04:11 gametime. (65%Wiz), (43%Hum), (50%Cha), (76%Mal), 19d 11:59 remaining. 12:02 [EU] [D]: Merlek (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 2900 points, 2818 turns, killed by a werewolf 12:05 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 466 points, 1227 turns, killed by a water moccasin 12:09 [hdf-us] [nh13d] treacle (Arc Mal), 58 points, T:176, leprechaun 12:17 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 12:18 @bubbles @ShivanHunter has currently played 9374 games, 9117 of which are scummed 12:18 https://www.hardfought.org/tnnt/players/ShivanHunter.html 12:19 [hdf-eu] [nh13d] thorsb (Arc Mal), 88 points, T:70, hobgoblin 12:20 <@ShivanHunter> looks around shiftily 12:20 <_< >_> 12:20 @ShivanHunter what are you scumming for? 12:20 it's obviously not a 12 conducts game. that would need much more scumming ... 12:21 <@ShivanHunter> well it's 20 conducts but like that indcludes all the TNNT stuff and 3.6.* stuff 12:21 chriss67 took 100k scummed games 12:21 but still didn't succeed 12:21 he did, however, find a wow on turn:0 on one occasion 12:21 <@ShivanHunter> yeah it's not pacifist or zen or the super hard ones 12:21 <@ShivanHunter> foodless atheist is the biggie 12:21 <@ShivanHunter> lol 12:22 chriss67? are you confusing him with Tyr or was that a separate attempt? 12:22 that was the cs12 account of chriss67 12:22 i think its still by far the account with the most games on NAO 12:22 !gamesby takes several seconds for rodders 12:23 <Rodney> cs12 has played 277011 games, between 20120508 and 20131023, highest score 1149395, ascended 1, died 54, quit 51, escaped 276905 times 12:23 the one ascended game was aformentioned t:0 wow 12:24 <@ShivanHunter> well when you get a T:0 WoW you gotta go with it 12:24 <@ShivanHunter> :D 12:24 i think this is downvoted because the reference was lost https://nhqdb.alt.org/?123 12:24 @ShivanHunter or not? where's the challenge in that? :-) 12:25 <@bubbles> Soon you can scum bubblehack đŸ‘ŒđŸ» 12:25 <@bubbles> I got portals working this morning 12:25 <@bubbles> So I guess I can put the game start and win condition in 12:26 <@bubbles> Then move onto dungeon generation and monsters 12:27 @shivanHunter so you are scumming for =oSD, magic marker, +oID? 12:27 https://junethack.net/archive/2012/user/iopdude.html 12:27 anything else? 12:27 90 Games Played | 149568 Games Start Scummed 12:27 Int:20 12:27 haha 12:27 didn't even get an ascension in 12:28 but yeah it seems that scumming 150k-200k still is not good enough for a successful 12-conduct run 12:28 <@ShivanHunter> =oSD and scare tool are the bare minimum I look for. And I'll throw away a char if there's NOTHING else good. also helpful is any polymorph item/polycontrol or a marker, or a good spell (Identify is actually great since there's no guarantee you'll find it in the game otherwise) 12:29 <@ShivanHunter> All the few-thousand-turn deaths are some rushed play just scrounging for items and shops on the first few levels since you usually get an inventory's worth of items there too 12:29 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 584 points, T:1790, killed by a gnome 12:31 <@bubbles> Shivan did you hear my tentative thoughts on making start scumming impossible? 12:31 <@ShivanHunter> don't think so! 12:31 <@bubbles> Basically before you enter the dungeon you have access to a mall 12:31 <@ShivanHunter> ah 12:31 <@bubbles> And depending on role race you start with some currency 12:31 <@ShivanHunter> lots of early RPGs had you buy items during character creation 12:31 <@bubbles> Not zk 12:31 <@bubbles> Because price:goodness is pretty meaningless 12:31 <@bubbles> Yeah 12:32 <@bubbles> But it would mean if you want to do specific things you can but might have to sacrifice something else 12:32 <@ShivanHunter> yeah it's a good system. Not sure it'd quite work for nethack - there's LOTS of items to pick from, especially for wizards, and the randomness (for normal play) is part of the point of wiz 12:33 <@bubbles> I'm actually quite tempted to make role and race selection in game as well 12:33 <@bubbles> Sure, can always go for random additions to the load out, 12:34 <@bubbles> So you could still start scum 12:34 <@ShivanHunter> An interesting choice might be to have the "shop" contents somewhat random, but not as random as (say) NH wiz inventory 12:34 <@bubbles> But if you're not going for total madness the controlled start would be good 12:34 <@bubbles> Yeah definitely 12:34 <{Demo}> weird idea 12:34 <@bubbles> So you'd always get +fb +heal 12:35 <{Demo}> based on name, you have fixed random starting inventory 12:35 <@bubbles> Ah as the seed? 12:35 <{Demo}> and until you go further than 200 or so turns you don't get to reroll 12:35 <{Demo}> no 12:35 <{Demo}> this is seed independent 12:35 <@ShivanHunter> hmmm 12:35 <{Demo}> your start items are saved 12:35 <@bubbles> People would just script 200s 12:35 <@bubbles> Or whatever 12:36 <{Demo}> yeah 200s might not be the best 12:36 <{Demo}> maybe 200 s, kill x monsters, reach x xlvl 12:36 <@bubbles> Yeah 12:36 <{Demo}> it would highly become not worth it 12:36 <@bubbles> But then start scumming isn't really affecting anything. I want to incentive not doing it 12:36 <@bubbles> Rather than penalising 12:36 <@bubbles> But might make it a startup option 12:37 <@bubbles> One of the big points of starting coding from scratch is trying new shit is a lot easier for me 12:37 <@bubbles> So if startmall doesn't work it's no biggie 12:38 <@ShivanHunter> so you're working on your own roguelike? 12:39 <@bubbles> https://github.com/bubblehack/bubblehack/tree/master/src 12:39 <@bubbles> Yeah 12:39 [EU] [D]: arckex (Pri-Hum-Fem-Neu), 587 points, 1291 turns, killed by a wererat 12:39 <@ShivanHunter> cool! 12:40 DCSS (sorry) gets rid of startscumming partly by making a given species/role combo always start with identical stats and kit (wildly incompatible with NH wizards), starting you in one of a wide selection of fixed starting vaults (have to play some turns to find out if this game is lucky, not just look for a great item in the first room) but mostly by having very good players focus on winrate not 12:40 conducts... which, getting back to NetHack, is I fear the only way to eliminate startscumming. 12:40 <@ShivanHunter> I've had that idea myself, but I'll I've gotten so far is several (different) half-baked design docs and a C++ project with basic caves and LOS 12:41 <@bubbles> Feel free too steal at any point 12:41 <@bubbles> To 12:41 <@bubbles> I think I'm happy with how items are shapinh out 12:41 <@bubbles> It's all component based 12:41 <@ShivanHunter> the problem with focusing on winrate, specifically for NH, is that NH's endgame is boring as fuck 12:41 Well, yeah, I don't see how you get there from here. :-/ 12:41 <@bubbles> Dnh ❀ 12:41 <@ShivanHunter> and conducts generally make it more fun (that Astral splat from earlier was as tense as my first ascension) 12:42 <@bubbles> Pink from where to where? 12:42 From here - startscumming strongly incentivised - to where we'd (presumably?) like to be - startscumming pointless. 12:42 <@bubbles> By trying out different things 12:42 <@bubbles> I guess 12:43 <@bubbles> It's not the biggest problem I don't think 12:43 Not to be _all_ theorycrafting but I think reasoning about them beforehand doesn't hurt - like I can see above that doing the two things DCSS does doesn't _help_ if the player focus is unchanged. 12:44 Conducts could be improved (from a startscumming POV) by (a radical change) enforcing them from game start - it then becomes "what proportion of foodless atheist games can I win?" 12:44 <@bubbles> Conduct is definitely a good one 12:44 <@bubbles> I think slex has something like that 12:45 [EU] [D]: arckex (Pri-Hum-Fem-Neu), 108 points, 169 turns, killed by a falling rock 12:45 <@bubbles> Choosing a certain name forces eg perma blindness 12:45 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 12:45 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1469 points, 1229 turns, killed by a magic missile 12:46 I'd go slightly laxer in that you can break the conduct, but it'll still count as a loss in your "foodless" stats, you just get to finish the game. 12:46 (But you break it with explicit confirmation, not by UI screw...) 12:47 <@bubbles> Ahhh yes 12:47 <@bubbles> "What conducts would you like too attempt?" During character creation 12:48 I don't see that anything can be done about speedrunning - someone trying to minimise turncount is always incentivised to check D:1 for superb drops and quit if they aren't there. 12:48 -!- hdf-guest-42 has joined #hardfought 12:48 -!- hdf-guest-42 has left #hardfought 12:48 <@bubbles> Also thoughts on character c creation being done in game? 12:49 <@bubbles> Just a gimmick? 12:49 It works in Angband 12:50 <@bubbles> I thought you selected from a menu? 12:50 <@ShivanHunter> thrown bags of holding protect their contents from breaking, right? 12:50 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 5266 points, 6607 turns, killed by an ettin mummy 12:51 I think I've misunderstood just what bits you want done "in game" (an odd expression since it's all "in game") 12:53 <@bubbles> Like you would have a room with portals 12:53 <@bubbles> One way 12:53 <@bubbles> But it's probably ginnicky 12:53 In all candour that sounds both gimmicky and annoying 12:53 <@bubbles> Yeah probably 12:54 <@bubbles> Candour is fine! 12:54 <@bubbles> Good 12:54 <@bubbles> I only have one race role at the moment 12:54 <@bubbles> I'm probably going to not do more races for a while. Differentiation is pretty weak 12:54 What I was thinking of is how in Angband you start with some gold and run around the town buying your initial equipment, rather than (say) being issued it NetHack-style or selecting a weapon in character creation DCSS-style. 12:55 (FWIW modern Angband is busy eliminating warts like this and it may no longer be true) 12:55 <@bubbles> Ah yeah I am defo doing that 12:55 <@bubbles> Though not gold bit some other currency 12:55 <{Demo}> newt eyes 12:56 <@bubbles> Could add a shopkeeper called Mr. Star tzkum err 12:56 <@bubbles> Who stocks totally random stuff 12:56 The old Omega roguelike took it further in that you select which guilds to join "in-game" in this sense, which is about as close to picking a character class as Omega gets 12:56 Or having to actually find an altar in DCSS to pick a god. 12:57 (which is not just a pointless wart because you might die getting there, so do you take the god who's right here or the one you really want?) 12:58 POWDER as well where at every level-up you pick a god which kind of determines your character class for the next experience level 12:59 <@bubbles> My original vision was a hub world that would evolve throughout the game 12:59 <@bubbles> I will tyupe this up on pastebin actually so as not to spam too much 12:59 <@bubbles> gimme a min 13:00 I've got to go out for a few minutes anyway... but I think I feel in general that if something like this is, like the Angband equipment buying, like doing it from a menu but fiddly, just make it a menu. :-/ 13:03 [US] [D]: shadowcat (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 319 points, 1354 turns, killed by a hobbit 13:04 i have some ideas about scumming and making it not worth doing for next years tnnt 13:04 i've been back and forth on the idea 13:05 but now seeing 12000+ games out of 15000 being scummed, it makes me want to address it somehow 13:05 K2: As the server operator you have the Technical Thug option of rate-limiting game starts :-) 13:06 i could, but so far it hasnt been an issue resource-wise 13:06 not like running a bot would 13:06 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 289 points, 362 turns, killed by a giant mimic 13:06 Sure, but it would stop startscumming. (Or give a quota of game starts per month - high enough that no nonscumming player is near it.) 13:06 so here's my current take: 13:07 start scumming and nethack pretty go hand in hand 13:07 its 'nethacky' if that makes any sense 13:07 i also dont have time to sit and monitor server usage and try to police excessive start scumming 13:08 and another thing - a bit of start scumming isnt necessarily a bad thing depending on your criteria 13:08 [US] [D]: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 249 points, 768 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion 13:08 so here' smy idea 13:08 (I'm not saying you _should_ do these things, merely that they are things you could do which would limit startscumming) 13:09 each player would be allowed x number of start scummed games. once that threshold is reached, it becomes detremental to continue doing so 13:09 [US] [D]: ansic (Ran-Hum-Fem-Neu), 676 points, 3017 turns, killed by Mr. Angmagssalik; the shopkeeper (and 2 other games not reported) 13:09 say, lose one point per scummed game after is exceeded 13:10 make it so the juice isnt worth the squeeze 13:10 [US] [D]: ansic (Ran-Hum-Fem-Neu), 4 points, 183 turns, killed by a little dog called Sirius 13:10 i get it if you roll a shitty character and want to start a new one right away 13:11 but waking up to 12000+ scummed games out of 15000 total does not make me happy 13:11 silly In:12 wizards 13:11 whats the word i'm looking for... 'excessive' 13:12 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 7687 points, 8737 turns, killed by a soldier ant 13:16 anyways 13:16 this is stuff the tnnt dev team needs to go over and discuss 13:16 i'm sure there are differing views on the subject 13:17 <@ShivanHunter> Speaking as the primary source of the problem ;P - the point system you mentioned definitely seems fair to me 13:21 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 526 points, 1093 turns, killed by a purple worm 13:21 ha. 10000 start scummed games 13:21 can't your tiny whiny server cope with that? 13:21 junethack had to cope with >100k start scummed games 13:22 I remember the incredulous look on Pinkbeast's face when I gave that talk at IRDC :-) 13:22 no hdf cant handle all those scummed game errmahgerd 13:22 :) 13:23 and junethack didnt have to 'cope' with anything, i hear the tournament admin doesnt give two shits about things like that. or team limits. or bots playing on human teams/human accounts :) 13:25 IIRC at that time it was NAO that had to take most of the heat. 13:25 but nevertheless we had to adjust the code to cope with this many games. in the beginning it produced the games faster than we could process them :-D 13:25 hah 13:30 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 22 points, 117 turns, killed by a system shock (and one other game not reported) 13:30 <@bubbles> None of this is what I WANT to do, it's just what I imagined I would do: https://qbin.io/ent-robert-4ii8 13:32 <@bubbles> Would very much love comments/thoughts and don't hold back, a lot of this is probably nonsense 13:33 neat 13:33 i like the backstory 13:34 Andrio: or healers with only 4 Pw so they can't cast healing to save their life 13:35 <@bubbles> Defo want to keep it forgotten realmsy 13:38 @bubbles it looks good so far 13:38 only real way to know of course is to get a beta out for ppl to play 13:40 ADE was a beast of a dedicated server though 13:40 what were the specs 13:40 don't remember 13:40 i became really depressed during that time so my memory is a bit hazy 13:40 :/ 13:41 i just remember that it was a resource hog for most of the time 13:41 i think kerio used it to crack some encryption or so 13:41 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 6020 points, 5884 turns, killed by an ochre jelly 13:41 er i mean 13:42 that most of its resources were idle most of the time 13:42 the four cores on hdf-us are fine, even during tournament times 13:42 i would like more RAM though 13:43 fair amount of sql processes running for the web part 13:43 hdf scoreboard, etc 13:43 <@bubbles> yeppers 13:43 volume is an SSD array so file read/writes are not a concern 13:43 i am sure that we had way way more cores 13:44 about i'd guess 64 GB ram 13:44 original hdf-us was 8 core 13:44 that was the bare metal box in my basement :P 13:45 but AWS has a bursting feature, if the server needs more horsepower for whatever reason, it kicks in 13:45 it has never had to as far as I know 13:47 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 145 points, 1006 turns, killed by a giant mimic 13:47 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 13:48 for a very brief moment, I once thought about letting altars be generated with gods from all roles. then I wondered how I would differentiate those gods or even just how to differentiate altar of the same alignment but different gods than the player? 13:54 i heard there is That Other Roguelike that does something like that 13:55 oh just according to display? 13:58 <@bubbles> Bhaak I think prayer aligment and the pool of boons they grant. Like if you have several fire aligned branches you may want to take a God who likes to grant anti fire boons 14:00 [US] [D]: pur (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 666 points, 1746 turns, killed by a wererat 14:01 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 14:01 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 14:02 stennowork: no, gameplay related. That Other Roguelikes does it in a great way but I don't think that would be fitting into NetHack 14:03 fair 14:03 <@bubbles> That other roguelike? 14:03 @bubbles but aren't there to few fire boons possible in the game? I mean fire resistance is easy to come by. what else? scroll or potion protected from fire? 14:03 the roguelike that shall not be mentioned :P 14:04 <@bubbles> Bhaak read the document. Resistances will be a lot more sparse 14:04 <@bubbles> And mostly temporary 14:05 <@bubbles> Double damage versus fire aligned monsters. Warning. Half fire damage taken. Fire walking. Etc 14:05 <@bubbles> Re boons 14:06 <@bubbles> Turn fire (like turn undead) 14:12 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 3962 points, 8282 turns, killed by a wumpus 14:12 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 128 points, 746 turns, killed by a bear trap 14:14 [US] [D]: tinklebear (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 656 points, 1637 turns, poisoned by a rabid rat (and one other game not reported) 14:18 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2557 points, T:4604, killed by a giant mimic 14:20 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 14:20 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 908 points, 4069 turns, killed by a large kobold, while fainted from lack of food 14:23 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 6009 points, 3386 turns, killed by a mumak 14:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2004 14:26 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 99 points, T:521, killed by a jackal 14:29 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 591 points, 1290 turns, killed by a giant rat, while reading a book 14:31 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu) averted death, on T:1025 14:38 -!- jannis has joined #hardfought 14:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Hum Fem Law), 1947 points, T:2213, killed by a gnome lord 14:43 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 44 points, 163 turns, killed by a boiling potion 14:45 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 36 points, 233 turns, killed by a water moccasin 14:46 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 56 points, 374 turns, killed by a fox 14:47 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 14:48 [US] [D]: allanb (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 150 points, 385 turns, killed by a coyote 15:08 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1034 points, 2326 turns, killed by a giant mimic 15:15 <@luxidream> K2: scumming was never the problem 15:16 <@luxidream> there’s a weakness in the scoring system, yes, but it’s also exploitable without scumming 15:23 <@luxidream> in case you didn’t notice, the vast majority of scum games are coming from SH’s script 15:25 -!- joes has joined #hardfought 15:30 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3606 points, 5713 turns, killed by a gnome mummy 15:31 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 15:31 <@luxidream> It also kills conduct and speedrun play that requires some level of scumming, for example, a turncount speedrun is preferential to a scare tool and part of a polyself kit 15:32 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 15:37 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 15:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 15:38 $lastgame bouquet 15:38 bouquet: [US] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/tnnt/dumplog/1573446954.tnnt.html 15:39 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 15:39 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 15:39 . 15:40 ^ obvious lurker above 15:46 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 12189 points, 11889 turns, killed by a warg 15:55 lol Pinkbeast 15:58 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 1641 points, T:3746, killed by a gnome lord 15:59 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 129 points, 586 turns, killed by contaminated water 16:02 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 35 points, 330 turns, killed by an electric shock 16:03 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 154 points, 399 turns, killed by a fox 16:07 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 16:10 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 16:14 [US] [D]: SkippitoFriskito (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 7365 points, 3700 turns, killed by a gargoyle 16:25 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 649 points, 2641 turns, killed by a large mimic 16:31 [EU] [D]: noims (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 160548 points, 21164 turns, killed by a marilith, while paralyzed by a monster (and one other game not reported) 16:32 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 16:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Ana And Mal Neu), 112717 points, T:7729, killed by a blast of fire 16:32 <@rikersan> castle dive did not work lmao 16:37 [US] [D]: pur (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 452 points, 1088 turns, killed by a dwarf, while praying 16:40 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 16:43 !gt h 16:44 [EU] [D]: voffer (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2095 points, 3344 turns, killed by a pony 16:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Dro Mal Neu), 1592 points, T:1713, killed by a giant ant 16:50 -!- bebing has joined #hardfought 17:06 [hdf-us] [nh13d] BeaBee (Pri Mal), 84 points, T:80, fall into a pit 17:10 @luxidream the scumming has absolutely nothing to do with scumming 17:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Hdr-Rog Dro Mal Neu) was given Soulmirror, on T:3230 17:10 hah nothing to do with the scoring 17:11 and yeah i know shivanhunter has the vast majority of scummed games this year 17:11 and honestly, a really good player should be able to turncount speedrun regardless of the race/role/inventory they start with 17:11 <@luxidream> the scumming is a symptom of the scoring system incentivizing foodless too much 17:12 to an extent *maybe* 17:12 but thats not the only reason a player would want to start scum 17:12 <@luxidream> maud and very good turncount speedrunners scummed heavily for their most impressive records 17:12 one sec 17:13 <@luxidream> to an extent I also scum when attempting high risk realtime speedruns 17:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Dro Mal Neu), 6637 points, T:4513, killed by a rothe, while praying 17:13 <@luxidream> the fastest times simply aren't possible without one or more items 17:21 <@luxidream> in this case, it's not because less skilled players are abusing scumming to beat better players 17:21 <@luxidream> but that skilled players are using it to rack up very high scores in a cheesy manner (foodless wizard) 17:21 <@luxidream> that's why it's a scoring problem 17:24 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 3537 points, 5959 turns, killed by a soldier ant, while praying 17:24 <@Tone> You actually can't get a competitive turncount speedrun without a very favorable earlygame, which requires some start scumming 17:25 <@Tone> basically all the very fast scores I'm familiar with have early wands of wishing, or at least early shops that have the items that would have been wished for anyways 17:28 sorry at work had to step away 17:28 so did you guys see what i was saying ealier this morning 17:28 as a possible deterrent to excessive start scumming 17:28 <@Tone> Something about a score penalty for excessive scummed games? 17:28 yeah, and a threshold 17:29 in other words, the penalty (whatever that may be, if any) wouldnt kick in until after X number of scummed games 17:29 <@Tone> I don't see an issue with it, except keep in mind that people that want to scum may just start waiting 100 turns or whatever threshold they have to pass to not have the game count as scummed 17:29 and bear in mind the idea i have hasnt been vetted at all by the rest of the tnnt devs, this is me thinking out loud 17:30 <@Tone> also depending on the the penalty is vs what the score reward is for whatever they are scumming for, they may end up just ignoring it 17:30 well thats the thing 17:30 1) the turn threshold would probably weed out the script scumming 17:30 no one wants to do that manually 17:31 <@Tone> How many people are using scripts? 17:31 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 17:31 and 2) the penalty would have to be something that would make excessive scumming not worth the trouble of doing it 17:32 <@luxidream> I guess my question is why it doesn't have to with scoring 17:32 <@luxidream> because scumming was minimal last year when the scoring system did not encourage it 17:32 oh we had a fair amount of scummed games last year 17:32 <@luxidream> er, did not encourage it as much. the foodless bonus was still abusable last year 17:32 but not at the level we're seeing right now 17:33 not even close 17:34 <@luxidream> Right, so how does the current scumming have nothing to do with the scoring system change? 17:35 not everyone scums for foodless conduct 17:36 <@IceBox> well correlation is not causation in that case (i.e. people NOT scumming for foodless does not prove that it's a well balanced score multiplier) 17:37 [EU] [D]: gargor (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Cha), 1004 points, 657 turns, killed by a hobgoblin 17:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 1374 points, T:2521, killed by an owlbear 17:37 <@IceBox> whereas in it's current state, i can perform a skill-less activity (scumming) for about 3 minutes to guarantee that my score is doubled 17:38 <@IceBox> logically that indicates (at least) 2 solutions: 1.) reduce the scoring bonus for foodless 2.) "tweak" the conditions around foodless to reduce abuse (i.e.a reduced or removed bonus for wizards) 17:40 <@IceBox> personally i think scumming is part of the game no matter how people feel about it and there's likely no solid way to police it. Like tone said above i can just waiit 100 turns every few games to keep my "scum threshold" low 17:44 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 17:50 !oink 17:50 <@bubbles> !booze k2 17:50 * Beholder passes k2 a schooner of suds, brewed by the /dev/null/oracle at 71 Kelvin. 17:50 <@bubbles> Ah well 17:50 <@bubbles> I tried 17:51 !booze me 17:51 * Beholder pours me a schooner of suds, prayed over by Izchak at 45 degrees Celsius. 17:51 !booze you 17:51 * Beholder tosses you a glass of grappa, replicated by NotTheOracle\dnt at -9 degrees Celsius. 17:52 !role tnnt 17:52 jonathanhanes: caveman 17:52 I think a knight would be preferable 17:54 The Mines are no place for a pony, even one so brave as Frenchie. 17:55 -!- TheGame20 has joined #hardfought 17:58 <@bubbles> Are there any dgl knowing people around? 18:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-11 18:00 UTC: Games: 1756, Asc: 2, Scum: 1586. 702169 turns, 6705092 points. 8d 07:27 gametime. (61%Wiz), (44%Hum), (46%Cha), (68%Mal), 19d 05:59 remaining. 18:00 we already stated earlier, conduct scoring would be revamped for next year 18:00 cant do it in the middle of the tournament 18:00 [EU] [D]: gargor (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2425 points, 3266 turns, killed by a Green-elf 18:03 <@luxidream> right, but is it really necessary to penalize scumming if it's not incentivized? 18:03 Games 15294 18:03 Scummed games 12146 18:03 you tell me 18:04 <@bubbles> K2 how do I make ssh not need password? 18:04 <@luxidream> I've seen those numbers 18:04 public/private key pair 18:04 <@luxidream> and scumming is heavily incentivized this year, due to the scoring system 18:04 bubbles: authorised_keys or passwordless account (probably don't do the latter); this isn't really a dgl question. 18:05 <@bubbles> Yeah I know 18:05 <@bubbles> Hdf is just passwordless account right 18:05 Aren't there some versions of ssh that can take the password at the command line? 18:05 <@bubbles> I just don't know how to make a passwordless account o/ 18:06 <@bubbles> I can just make it nethack/nethack 18:06 <@bubbles> yeah yolo 18:06 [EU] [D]: joes (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 30738 points, 18607 turns, killed by a vampire lord 18:06 Oh, for dgl setup. Yeah, that's special. 18:06 <@luxidream> 9100 of those are shivanhunter, around 900 from ootc, 800 from porkman 18:06 <@luxidream> that leaves a fairly reasonable number of scummed games 18:06 No encrypted password string in /etc/shadow 18:07 Pinkbeast: That normally prevents login. 18:07 @luxidream i'm not proposing that you cant scum or wouldnt be allowed to. what i am proposing is that if you do it excessively, there's aprice to pay for it 18:07 PermitEmptyPasswords in /etc/sshd_config 18:08 (reiterating once again that I think it is much better to have a generally known private key & password than an actually empty password) 18:08 What kind of price are we talking k2? 18:09 docking points or otherwise deducting points off of a total score is IMO strictly antifun 18:09 <@bubbles> Yeah I'll just do a password 18:11 <@bubbles> ssh nethack@185.183.182.24 password = same as username 18:11 <@bubbles> \o/ 18:11 Making the password something like "bubblehack" is not an unreasonable compromise. 18:11 <@bubbles> I can't get dgl to not say nethack but it works 18:11 I think shivanhunter was attempting something like a 20-21 conduct run, had they successfully completed it would anyone have considered it any less legitimate or difficult because of the games scummed? 18:11 Configuring dgl is another whole can of worms. 18:11 <@bubbles> It launches the correct game and that's as much as I care! 18:11 jonathanhanes i dont know 18:12 just thinking out loud still 18:12 <@bubbles> One thing I'd love to see, not sure how feasible this is in a vanilla codebase, k2 you probs know best - have actual conducts available for selection on race/role selection 18:12 maybe just not have those games show up at all perhaps 18:12 <@bubbles> With a preconfigured inventory/stats 18:12 I understand k2, just asking some questions I feel might need to be addressed. 18:12 <@bubbles> So everyone competing in "conduct mode" would have the same loadout 18:13 i am not a fan of penalties either 18:13 You .. probably want to edit stuff in dgamelaunch-config/chroot/data/menus and rerun "dgl publish" 18:13 @bubbles one thing we've discussed is something like this: if race wizard, then foodless conduct else foodless conduct 18:14 [US] [D]: thegame (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 2301 points, 2951 turns, killed by a black unicorn 18:14 <@bubbles> Aha dgl publish gotcha 18:15 <@bubbles> note: the only way to win bubblehack at the moment is to either walk off map, or hit the goblin 18:16 <@bubbles> for some definition of win! 18:16 'spank the goblib' mode 18:16 goblin 18:16 dammit 18:16 bubbles: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/montresor/montresor002.png 18:17 <@luxidream> foodless should just be lower points overall because it has huge variability in difficulty 18:17 <@bubbles> \o/ 18:17 <@luxidream> for example, using the swap chest essentially would trade a 1.1x conduct for a 2x conduct 18:18 Foodless is only REALLY hard if you combine it with other conducts. Notably, atheist and polyselfless. 18:19 Kind of like petless, which by itself is not spectacularly hard, but becomes nightmarish if you combine it with pacifist. 18:20 <@bubbles> how can you do petless/pacificist? 18:20 With great difficulty. 18:20 <@luxidream> you don't 18:20 And conflict. 18:20 -!- hdf-guest-74 has joined #hardfought 18:21 I don't happen to know if it's ever been done. 18:21 <@bubbles> I guess lots of /oTP 18:21 <@bubbles> and genocide 18:21 <@bubbles> so much genocide 18:22 well... as stated earlier, we've already discussed conduct scoring and that changes need to be and will be made 18:22 so 18:22 @luxidream you need to email your contact info so we can party this week 18:23 [US] [D]: allanb (Tou-Hum-Fem-Cha), 2233 points, 4317 turns, killed by a mind flayer 18:23 <@luxidream> yeah...how is that going to work? I don't think we can do that at my apartment 18:23 <@luxidream> I live with family 18:24 <@luxidream> what's your email K2? 18:25 <@luxidream> you want me to mail admin@hardfought.org? 18:25 yeah 18:25 what your family doesnt play nethack? 18:25 wtf 18:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 3336 points, T:4440, killed by a giant spider, while sleeping 18:27 they arent cool enough to hang out with? 18:27 <@luxidream> no they don't play video games or drink 18:27 <@luxidream> and would take issues with me doing so 18:27 they dont know about you playing nethack? 18:28 [US] [D]: thegame (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 488 points, 1156 turns, killed by a wolf 18:29 -!- truculent has joined #hardfought 18:29 <@luxidream> they do know about me playing nethack, but would take issue with me bringing over another person and both of us getting drunk 18:29 hahah 18:29 well i cant get *drunk* i have to drive home later 18:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 327 points, T:744, killed by a small mimic 18:29 unless i crash on your couch 18:29 What if just one of you got drunk? 18:30 or floor 18:30 :D 18:30 j/k 18:30 or climb in bed with your dad and snuggle him thinking he's my wife 18:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 1055 points, T:949, killed by a water moccasin 18:30 THOSE AREN'T TWO PILLOWS 18:31 <@bubbles> What if both of you get halfdrunk 18:31 hah 18:32 get some wine coolers and put on some ani difranco 18:32 <@luxidream> I sent you my number K2 18:32 k 18:33 bartle & james 18:33 wine coolers 18:33 i havent had those since high school 18:33 @luxidream so what do you wanna do 18:34 if not your place, where you wanna go where we can play some nethack and have some 'refreshments' 18:34 * Pinkbeast looks up what a wine cooler is, it sounds ghastly 18:34 you have real life friends? ever lan it up? 18:34 Pinkbeast yeah 18:35 some of those things were so sweet it'd hurt your teeth 18:35 <@luxidream> I have friends IRL yeah, but we mostly play different games 18:35 <@bubbles> I implemented combat! 18:35 <@luxidream> do you have any suggestions where we could go? I'm about four days underage lol 18:35 \o/ 18:35 <@bubbles> And you can no longer phase through walls 18:35 four days lol 18:36 Pete's sake, luxi, you're younger than my keyboard 18:36 ok lets do this then 18:36 we do the livestream nethack bit 18:36 just minus the booze 18:36 <@bubbles> https://i.imgur.com/YM1pF2U.png 😄 18:36 cuz you dont need drinky drinks to have fun (although it can help a lot sometimes) 18:37 @bubbles wooo 18:37 <@bubbles> Don't need do want. 18:37 <@bubbles> Thanks K2! 18:37 [US] [D]: engelson (Mon-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1581 points, 2497 turns, killed by a hobbit 18:37 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 18:38 plus i wont have to worry about getting home or having to crash somewhere for the night 18:38 <@Tone> You could give marginal conduct points for foodless, then a nice bonus for foodless "ring of slow digestion-less" 18:39 hmm 18:40 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 18:40 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 18:41 @Tone i added that idea to the list 18:42 <@luxidream> I'll see if that will work K2. it's just pretty tough for me to have someone over at my house. 18:42 <@luxidream> I hope you understand 18:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 2569 points, T:2052, killed by a giant ant 18:45 <@luxidream> hm I wonder if I'm able to stream on campus wifi, I've never tried 18:45 re: the missing Medusa, I found her one level above the medusa level, could she have drank a cursed !oGL without me seeing? 18:45 Sure. 18:45 <@Tone> By the way, although it would likely help a lot, disincentivizing scumming through score may not even stop it, especially since one user seems to be all it could take to skew the statistics. TNNT has a unique set of conducts and a leaderboard to encourage competition. It's a unique challenge that many players would attempt regardless of points. 18:45 ... very plausible if, say, you were blindfolded 18:45 yeah, mystery solved then, thanks :) 18:46 <@Tone> I'd guess that ShivanHunter isn't doing this solely for score 18:47 <@Tone> merleke: Yes that would explain it 18:47 <@luxidream> K2: the other option is that I go north and meet you up there, I don't know what else you want to do in norman? 18:49 <@luxidream> Pinkbeast: I guess my question is how a keyboard that sees daily use has lasted that long 🙂 18:49 <@bubbles> With love an daffection 18:49 IBM Model M 18:51 <@bubbles> K2 how do I fix cp: cannot create regular file '/opt/nethack/nethack.alt.org/bubble/bubblehack': Text file busy 18:51 <@bubbles> when trying to update a game with dgl running? 18:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 944 points, T:2295, killed by a snake, while praying 18:55 <@bubbles> I guess I can kill dgamelaunch processes? 18:55 <@bubbles> But that sounds pretty heavy hadned 18:57 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 3591 points, 3829 turns, killed by a soldier ant 18:58 [US] [D]: thegame (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 2347 points, 1857 turns, killed by a soldier ant 18:59 [hdf-eu] [nh343] bubbles (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 128 points, T:239, killed by a gnome lord 19:01 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1227 points, 3830 turns, killed by a killer bee 19:06 [US] [D]: allanb (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1228 points, 3199 turns, killed by a small mimic 19:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 835 points, T:1273, killed by an invisible snake 19:07 [US] [D]: bebing (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 33163 points, 19027 turns, killed by a hill giant 19:09 [EU] [D]: gargor (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 704 points, 912 turns, killed by a warg 19:09 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 19:14 @bubbles with dgl running? hmm no 19:16 only time i get that message is if i have the binary running in wizmode and i try to update my wizmode build atthe same time 19:16 @luxidream you could come up to ponca 19:17 but it'd be at my dad's house 19:17 and he's prob the same way as your family 19:17 and there aint shit to do in ponca except retire and get old hah 19:18 not a pub in sight? what a weird town ... 19:18 not a pub no 19:18 a couple bars 19:19 but luxi isnt old enough anyways 19:19 "not a pub" "couple of bars" wat? AFAIK, "pub" and "bar" are synonyms. 19:20 hmm not quite 19:20 brb 19:21 I mean, granted, in a British pub you wouldn't have to worry about luxi being old enough because it's legal to take young children into pubs in England. But that's a jurisdictional difference. 19:21 And a cultural one. 19:21 (Rather blew my mind when I found out about it.) 19:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 204 points, T:560, killed by a bolt of fire 19:27 Well, also, if luxi's 4 days off overage in the USA he can do whatever he likes in a pub here 19:27 ... I mean, whatever he likes that's a normal pub activity 19:27 That too: the drinking age is lower there. 19:28 18? 16? Something. 19:28 <@bubbles> 18 to buy 19:28 Grey areas exist but a pub and a bar definitely aren't the same thing 19:28 <@bubbles> But you can buy for a 16 year old in a pub 19:28 Not quite as extreme as the "we give them wine in sippy cups as soon as they're weaned" that you see in some of the southern EU countries. 19:28 <@bubbles> And you can buy wine for 13 I think in a restaurant with a meal 19:29 I may have mentioned my friend H was a bit vexed on going to MIT to find she couldn't buy booze, given she'd been working _on_ a bar in a strip club in Montreal. 19:29 (Which is probably driven by historically not having had reliable access to potable water; which has NEVER been a problem in North America.) 19:30 [hdf-eu] [nh363] OhNoNotAgain (Bar Orc Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:15237 19:30 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 19:30 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 19:30 A drinking age of 18 or 16 is almost sane, though I wouldn't argue for it here, given our culture. 19:31 <@bubbles> Your what now jonadab? 19:31 <@bubbles> 😄 19:31 Oh you hush. 19:31 America has culture, it's just different from yours. 19:32 At least in America people talk to each other. 19:32 Reliable access to potable water obviously has been a problem in North America 19:32 talk to each other> I know, it's deeply alarming 19:33 Call me a Londoner but when a stranger talks to me I wonder where my wallet is 19:33 <@bubbles> You don’t have potable water until you're 21 19:33 <@bubbles> Pinky which bit London you are? 19:34 Oh, man, London, that's worse than the rest of England, for people not talking to each other. 19:34 Secretly I live in Cambridge but I grew up in Staines and I think like a Londoner, at least in this respect. 19:35 It's like their motto is, "If you don't make eye contact, you can pretend the city isn't overcrowded". 19:35 Worse than New York, and that's saying something. 19:35 My mother's mother was from Edinburgh and would always warn you how "they talk to you at the bus stops in Glasgow", which is true, albeit often not in a way you can comprehend 19:36 <@bubbles> Hey my mum;'s a weigie 19:36 <@bubbles> Depends on which bit of london jonadab, I talk with strangers plenty in bars and pubcs 19:36 <@bubbles> After we're all drunk 19:36 <@bubbles> I met a girl who lives in a boat 19:37 I don't want to talk to _drunk_ people. 19:37 Don't go to Glasgow 19:37 <@bubbles> A sure sign you aren't drunk enough 19:37 I want to talk to people who have their wits about them. 19:37 <@bubbles> I am fully witted while drunk 19:37 <@bubbles> I mean we're not student drunk 19:37 <@bubbles> We're mature drunk 19:37 Which, granted, wits are something Galion's not long on. But that's a local issue, not nationwide. 19:38 <@bubbles> Right time to make this gobbo killable 19:38 <@bubbles> flight doesn't even open gates for another 30mins 19:40 ok luxi that settles it, we're flying to england 19:42 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 667 points, T:1254, killed by a gnome 19:42 must not make a snatch reference 19:42 bubbles: *blĂ€selblĂ€selblĂ€sel* what did you say about slex and conducts? I don't get it 19:43 [US] [D]: IceBox (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 14829 points, 7980 turns, killed by a mumak (and 8 other games not reported) 19:43 'you hear that avi? i'm coming to london!' 19:43 [US] [D]: thegame (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 3796 points, 4279 turns, killed by a kitten 19:44 @luxidream just got your email (it came in awhile ago, just now checked) 19:44 i understand the family bit now 19:45 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 19:45 [US] [D]: allanb (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 401 points, 1150 turns, killed by a manes 19:45 [hdf-eu] [nh363] OhNoNotAgain (Bar Orc Mal Cha) murdered redRum, his faithful warhorse, on T:15506 19:45 Does BlĂ€sel really have an umlaut? 19:45 i think she made that word up right now 19:46 You can't go making words up! That's not cromulent. 19:46 stenno: it's the german translation of "bubblebubblebubble" :D 19:47 <{Demo}> magic portals shouldn't generate hidden 19:47 Pinkbeast: it's German. half our daily used words are made up 19:47 Google tells me though that BlĂ€sel means "dumb human" in palatinate 19:47 german also has other nice words like "FlĂŒgelbĂŒschelmĂ€dchen" or "Liebstöckelschuh" <3 ♄ 19:48 or Erkenntnisspaziergang 19:48 never heard that before but immediately know what it means 19:48 cool concept 19:48 or Irreaffentittenturbosuperdupertyp 19:48 <@bubbles> bedank 19:48 <@bubbles> That's the only german I know 19:48 have you been secretly watching German 80s movies? 19:48 [EU] [D]: Merlek (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 361224 points, 27910 turns, killed by invisible Asmodeus 19:49 bonk 19:49 google 'made up german words' 19:49 :P 19:49 @bubbles so sad, that's more Dutch than German 19:49 <@bubbles> Amy I mean if you use a specific name in slex you get differnt behaviour, like zen 19:49 <@bubbles> bhaak yeah, West-West-Germany 19:49 <@bubbles> That's where I am at the moment 19:49 <@bubbles> Or "swamp germans" I believe they are called? 19:49 @bubbles don't tell them that. 19:49 <@luxidream> Yeah, let me just get my passport in 3 days 😛 19:49 @bubbles also not that swamp thing 19:49 i am a victim of Dornhöschenschlaf 19:51 as a receiver or a not-giver? 19:51 <@bubbles> I have a very very strong case of Mahlneid 19:51 receiver 19:51 i'm always up for fleecy bundlebundles 19:52 K2: buuuuuuundlebundlebundle ♄ I did actually see a purple super bundle today :) 19:52 how am i asupposed to interpret that?? 19:52 bubbles: it used to be like that but now those are birth options instead 19:52 https://www.flĂŒntu.com/blog/german/weird-german-words-vocabulary/ 19:52 <@bubbles> Ahh ok 19:52 https://www.fluentu.com/blog/german/weird-german-words-vocabulary/ 19:52 <@bubbles> www.flĂŒntu.com’s server IP address could not be found. 19:52 <@bubbles> German websites are banned here I guess 19:52 "Schattenparker" is great 19:53 @bubbles no, that's a copy/paste mistake. or a Kopierpastaunfall, as we call it in German 19:53 <@bubbles> Ahh 19:53 <@bubbles> Where did that umlaut come from? 19:54 <{Demo}> the umlaut of yendor? 19:54 Well, when a ` and a ' love each other very much... 19:54 'quasihasselhoff' 19:55 [US] [D]: quervo1 (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 981 points, 1324 turns, killed by a gnome lord 19:55 bubbles: what, bubblehack will ban the use of crossaligned artifacts entirely? boo 19:55 not quite being in a state of david hasselhoff 19:55 <@IceBox> !lastgame 19:55 @IceBox: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/K/Karnac/nethack/dumplog/1573500402.nh.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bubbles/nh343/dumplog/1573498683.nh343.txt | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/splicehack/dumplog/1573414501.splice.html 19:55 bur almost 19:55 but 19:56 <@bubbles> amy so you'd better change alignment then! \o/ 19:56 <@bubbles> Alignment should matter more 19:56 'Scwiegermutterkurvenlanghals' 19:56 [EU] [D]: Merlek (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 129 points, 530 turns, killed by an anti-magic implosion 19:56 Pinkbeast: actually, it's when u and e love each other very much, they become as one ĂŒ 19:56 sounds already like I'm gonna find bubblehack annoying... but I wait until you implement some actual content that I can hopefully steal 19:57 <@bubbles> :-p 19:57 [US] [D]: tinklebear (Cav-Hum-Mal-Law), 8847 points, 8203 turns, killed by an elven arrow 19:57 @bubbles I have an input mode that turns [aou] + e into the appropriate umlaut. not sure why it's activated in here 19:58 [hdf-eu] [nh363] OhNoNotAgain (Bar Orc Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:15773 19:58 sounds like bubblehack will also be quite different from nethack, according to that design document 19:59 <@bubbles> Yeah 19:59 * Pinkbeast says "Dungeon Crawl Bubble Bath" and runs away 19:59 <@bubbles> Indeed 19:59 <@bubbles> Possibly bad, possibly good 20:00 <{Demo}> definitely entropic 20:00 'bubble' as 'blaesel' is optimistic 20:01 <@bubbles> blaesel? 20:01 stenno: willst du dich auch mal blĂ€seln lassen? :-) 20:03 "blĂ€seln" is similar to "bĂŒscheln", but with bubbles instead of bundles ♄ 20:03 now THAT sounds like an indecent proposal 20:04 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 20:04 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 6439 points, 3492 turns, killed by a sewer rat 20:06 heh, sometimes when my roommate has a particularly lovely hairstyle, I sing with a cheerful voice "Wir-wol-len-dei-ne-Haa-re-bĂŒ-scheln!" which basically means "we want to bundle your hair" :) 20:07 or also "BĂŒ-schel-ins-Ge-sicht-hĂ€ngen!" (Bundle in the face hang!) 20:08 that's a decent proposal, though 20:08 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 826 points, 835 turns, killed by a gnome lord (and one other game not reported) 20:10 by now I've conditioned my roommate such that she will also refer to hair as "bundle" sometimes, i.e. instead of "I'm gonna comb my hair", she says "I'm gonna comb my bundle" <3 20:11 <@bubbles> Any do you have dreadlocks? A literal bundle of hair! 20:11 <@bubbles> Also I think mechanically bubblehack should feel like nethack 20:11 <@rikersan> how many german people frequent here? stenno, amy, bhaak, any others? 20:12 bubbles: haha I misread "Any" as "Amy" :D sadly I have short hair, but I like to wear wigs sometimes 20:12 <@bubbles> Still gods, alignment, luck, ac, to-hit, exp, skill slotd 20:13 <@bubbles> Oops no I meant Amy but autocorrect. On my phone at the airport 20:13 <@rikersan> on your way back this time around? 20:13 <@bubbles> Also a wig is like a bundle of hair 20:13 <@bubbles> Yessir 20:13 <@bubbles> Was just here for a birthday, flight is about an hour each way 20:13 <@bubbles> I guess more like a domestic fight over there 20:15 <@rikersan> I think most people here would just drive that 20:15 <@bubbles> There's a sea in the way though! 20:15 <@rikersan> boats! 20:15 <@bubbles> There is a tunnel but it's expensive 20:16 <@rikersan> but that's fair enough 20:16 <@bubbles> Currently working out how closely to copy nethack hit calcs 20:16 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 935 points, 1757 turns, burned by a tower of flame (and 7 other games not reported) 20:16 the scroll said READ ME... not my fault 20:16 <@bubbles> Not sure there's any real gain to doing it differently 20:16 Don't copy those, they're broken 20:17 <@rikersan> ^ you can probably come up wit ha better idea on your own 20:17 <@bubbles> Cevn nice 20:17 <@rikersan> instead of basing off a bastardization of some kinda funky d&d hitcalcs 20:17 <@rikersan> also I'm very impressed you managed to get light sources working, lol 20:17 <@bubbles> Oh I'm going to add a dark source 20:17 <@bubbles> The rikerblade 20:17 <@rikersan> what 20:18 <@rikersan> don't name artifacts after me please 20:18 <@bubbles> It should actually be pretty simple I just need to do a subtract instead of add on the callback 20:18 <@rikersan> every single artifact bar one that I've added into the game has had unintended side effects I believe 20:18 <@bubbles> I know darkness does more though 20:18 <@rikersan> for bonus pts: I believe ais was talking about implemented a TDTTOE-style idea - candles right now increase radius of light source with powers of 7? so 1 candle has radius 2, 7 rad 3, 49 rad 4, etc. 20:19 <@rikersan> but that doens't apply right now if you have a mixed stack - 3 lit wax candles and 4 lit tallow in a diff stack 20:19 <@bubbles> I do quadratic falloff 20:19 <@bubbles> Light isn't binary 20:19 <@rikersan> there's 5 light levels I think 20:19 <@bubbles> It goes 0-255 so light sources are accumulated 20:19 <@rikersan> dark, 3 dims, light 20:20 <@rikersan> I'm pretty sure the 3 dim are there because of the varying low-light vision levels 20:20 <@bubbles> Might do 16bit if required but more likely going to do a gamma curve 20:20 <@bubbles> Need more accuracy at low end without saturating at the high end 20:22 <@bubbles> I am going to try to see how bad a flickering light source is 20:22 <@bubbles> I'm also dabbling with partial tiles 20:22 <@bubbles> If half a tile is lit from one side and half from the other 20:22 <@rikersan> that's gonna get annoying to redraw constantly 20:22 <@rikersan> and I feel like partial tiles is a bad idea lol 20:22 <@rikersan> just call it good at full tiles - if you've got the rest of bubhack completely working then come back :) 20:22 <@bubbles> Would still resolve to one rule 20:22 <@bubbles> Tile 20:23 <@bubbles> Yeah true 20:23 <@rikersan> also you seriously need a better name 20:23 <@bubbles> Bundle hack? 20:23 <@rikersan> no 20:23 IIRC in Montresor wall tiles didn't have a light level, the light level of the adjacent floor tile was used, which was fiddly but worked 20:23 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1993 points, 5141 turns, killed by a giant ant, while unconscious from rotten food 20:23 <@rikersan> do you want to permanently anger jonadab? cuz tha'ts how you permanently anger jonadab :) 20:23 <@bubbles> Not not nethack? 20:24 <@bubbles> Wall tiles are weird in began 20:24 <@bubbles> Nethack 20:24 <@bubbles> Lit rooms are weird 20:24 <@bubbles> Why doesn't the light go out the door?? 20:24 <@rikersan> doorway rules 20:24 Wait, how do you permanently anger me? 20:24 why is bubblehack a bad name? there's also a variant called FIQhack 20:24 <@rikersan> I'm not a big fan of fiqhack either but it's shorter to say 20:25 I only actually _know_ of one way to do that, and it's not likely to come up here. 20:25 <@bubbles> Hackerbub 20:25 <@rikersan> jonadab: was it you who really disliked amy's bundling? 20:25 <@rikersan> also, what happened to tubs? 20:25 I don't claim to understand Amy's bundling. 20:25 <@bubbles> Why would someone dislike bundling? 20:25 <@rikersan> did he just dissapear after tubhack? 20:25 <@bubbles> Shhhh 20:25 It makes me scratch my head and go "wut", but it doesn't really make me angry. 20:25 Just confused. 20:26 <@rikersan> ah ok 20:26 <@bubbles> Tubs works for a company who doesn't allow open source development 20:26 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 919 points, T:1875, killed by an ogre, while sleeping 20:26 <@rikersan> oh, actually? 20:26 <@bubbles> So sadly he can't make his own 20:26 <@rikersan> that's really weird 20:26 <@rikersan> in terms of company policies 20:26 I hope they pay 24/7 in that case 20:27 Salaried employees are a weird loophole in worker protection laws here. 20:27 <@luxidream> tubs and bubbles are strangely related đŸ€” 20:27 Back when the laws were set up, salaried employees were a privileged class, so they didn't appear to need protection. 20:27 <@rikersan> tubs seems more wack than bubbles though 20:27 <@rikersan> bubbles is chiller 20:28 At this point, salary should probably just be made illegal and employers required to pay everyone hourly. 20:28 It would avoid needing to set up a second, parallel set of worker protection laws. 20:29 <@luxidream> Amy: what stops you from growing out your hair 20:29 <@luxidream> why would you of all people have short hair 20:29 Extremely low bridges 20:30 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2905 points, 2634 turns, killed by a manes (and 7 other games not reported) 20:30 luxidream: they get uncomfortably nappy and annoying even before they reach any useful length and it's driving me nuts! :( 20:30 [US] [D]: Nobbs (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 12192 points, 12665 turns, killed by a carnivorous ape 20:32 <@bubbles> Nappy? 20:32 well that annoying feeling when hair is all greasy and icky, I thought "nappy" is the word for that? "fettig" in German 20:32 A nappy is what a baby craps in 20:32 <@rikersan> amy that has a connotation in english last I checked 20:32 <@bubbles> Clean it more 20:33 <@rikersan> in relation to hair 20:33 <@bubbles> ! 20:33 <@bubbles> My hair is stupid and half grey 20:33 <@bubbles> Magic res 20:33 bubbles: yeah like I'm gonna waste tons of water and time every day just to be able to have long hair! 20:33 :P 20:33 [US] [D]: quervo1 (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 856 points, 2122 turns, killed by a dwarf, while sleeping (and 2 other games not reported) 20:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] Xaleth (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 745 points, T:2156, killed by a jackal 20:34 <@rikersan> amy: it's not that much water / time, and if it's long enough / curly you won't want to wash it everyday 20:34 <@rikersan> I got tired of having to keep putting in product though, it is a lot of effort sometimes 20:34 <@bubbles> Amy drwadlocks# 20:35 <@bubbles> Dreadlocks even 20:35 yeah but it also took forever to grow! at some point (which was reached before I had shoulder-long hair) it both got icky real quick and the growth rate decreased to about 1 mm/year :P 20:36 LarienTelrunya: >_> re: blaeseln 20:36 du! 20:36 was? :D 20:36 ne nix 20:37 das geht dich gar nix an :D 20:37 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1340 points, 1522 turns, killed by a succubus (and 4 other games not reported) 20:37 how should i name my rimworld dog 20:38 [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by The Lady, on T:3703 20:39 Urist McDog 20:39 ok thanks 20:42 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 375 points, 964 turns, killed by an iguana (and 30 other games not reported) 20:43 [US] [D]: bouquet (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2453 points, 3376 turns, killed by a magic missile 20:44 <@bubbles> Rimworld best world 20:45 79 karma until 10k reddit karma 20:45 i am an accomplished person 20:49 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 20:52 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2411 points, 2200 turns, killed by a giant ant (and 10 other games not reported) 20:53 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 125557 points, T:24554, killed by a human mummy 20:57 @rikersan what's wrong with fiqhack 20:58 <@rikersan> doens't describe the variant well 20:58 <@rikersan> but it's certainly better than a lot of naems 21:01 [EU] [D]: Merlek (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 7858 points, 8226 turns, killed by a soldier ant 21:02 the name doesn't need to describe the game. "nethack" is only partly a description of the game. 21:02 also it's google unique. that's more important than a fancy name :-) 21:07 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 724 points, T:1974, killed by a dwarf 21:13 [EU] [D]: RandomHacker (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 379 points, 1997 turns, killed by a sewer rat 21:14 [hdf-eu] [nh363] OhNoNotAgain (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 44761 points, T:19293, killed by a leocrotta 21:19 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Cha), 13022 points, 7978 turns, killed by a black dragon 21:19 is FIQ an acronym? or is it like FIQ's real name? initals? 21:20 [R] Clan Read Long Worm advances to rank 9! 21:20 'nethack' is kind of a bad name because people who don't know anything about roguelikes probably think it's about like internet hacking 21:21 <@rikersan> occasionally bots pop in to advertise their hacking services 21:21 yeah on #nethack for sure 21:21 <@rikersan> nah we've gotten one here 21:22 oh i'm sure 21:24 FIQ is a shortening for FredrIQ 21:24 oh that's cool! 21:24 which was a mocking name for Fredrik, my real name 21:24 gothca 21:24 gotcha 21:24 my username used to be Fredrik1994 21:24 when I first started using internet 21:25 around 2007 in a chat room, I kept missing jokes, etc 21:25 god, i can't type. i just tried playing and i can't do that either. haven't slept in few days. mother is having surgery early tomorrow. i'm so exhausted 21:25 so someone called me FredrIQ as harmless ribbing 21:25 and the fact that I insisted on using my phone to join IRC chats 21:25 (this was before smartphones) 21:25 going to take a nappy nap 21:25 and Comviq used to be a really big operator here 21:25 i like "FIQ".. it's a cool name 21:25 FredrIQ eventually became FIQ 21:25 as shortname 21:25 and it has been my username since 21:26 rebatela: when NetHack was named, this wasn't a forseeable problem. 21:26 <@rikersan> godspeed rebatela 21:26 Among other things, the word "hack" meant something different back then. 21:27 <@rikersan> wha'ts the net from again? 21:27 The "Net" in NetHack is analagous to the SS in DCSS. 21:27 [US] [D]: IceBox (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 123 points, 385 turns, killed by a goblin (and 43 other games not reported) 21:27 They called it "Net" hack because they were collaboratively developing it via the internet (mostly usenet and email at that time). 21:27 Which was a very new idea at the time. 21:27 <@rikersan> ah 21:28 <@Winsalot> Hello. Anyone has any info on when FIQslex is coming out? 21:28 You tell people that now, and they're like, "how ELSE would a dev team collaborate", but that just shows how much the world has changed. 21:28 [US] [D]: steveyo (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Neu), 192 points, 511 turns, killed by Ms. Pervari; the shopkeeper (and one other game not reported) 21:28 <@rikersan> if it comes out please lock it back in the closet and throw away the key 21:28 yeah i played hack when it was new.. played rogue first when i was like 7 or 8 and then hack (born in '79) 21:28 <@luxidream> slex with qol 21:28 thought it was sooo funny that you had a pet in hack 21:29 @luxidream Would fiqslex be slex with qol, or would it be fh with shoes? 21:29 <@luxidream> FH with shoes sounds easier 21:30 We should try to convince Amy to do a slexificated version of Angband. 21:30 For the lulz. 21:30 slex and qol in the same sentence 21:30 wtf 21:30 my older brother used to be waayyyy in to angband 21:31 i played moria as a kid but never angband 21:31 I keep threatening to play more Angband, see how far I can get. 21:31 Keep not doing it. 21:31 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Law), 165 points, 419 turns, killed by a gnome lord 21:31 [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 691 points, 569 turns, killed by a dwarf 21:31 the levels are non-persistant right ? 21:31 If I got very far into it, I'd probably end up making my own variant of it. And if there's one codebase that doesn't need more variants, it's Angband. 21:32 Most of them are. 21:32 The very first level is persistent, I think? 21:32 Or maybe only part of it. 21:32 Not sure if there are any others. 21:32 the way my brother described it to me is that like when you go back up to the town or store or whatever it will be all new levels 21:33 as opposed to going back the way you already mapped out 21:33 Yes, most of the levels vanish when you leave and are generated from scratch when you return. 21:33 right 21:33 Makes the game kind of grindy. 21:33 i could see that being cool/challenging 21:33 But I think that's by design. 21:33 Each time, you try to go a little deeper than before, because going deeper is how you get better gear. 21:33 [EU] [D]: RandomHacker (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 76 points, 1036 turns, killed by an anti-magic implosion 21:33 But at some point you have too many unidentified things and have to go back to town to sell-ID them. 21:34 [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 149 points, 339 turns, killed by a large mimic 21:34 Or else monsters start getting too scary and you have to go back up and regroup for that reason. 21:34 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 142 points, 786 turns, killed by a water moccasin 21:34 One notable thing about the non-persistent levels is that it makes stair dancing rather OP. 21:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Pir Hum Mal Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1309 21:35 I believe ADOM has a branch with non-persistent levels? 21:35 is adom an angband/moria etc. fork/variant? 21:35 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Pir Hum Mal Cha), 4490 points, T:1503, killed by Mr. Hebiwerie, the shopkeeper 21:35 <@rikersan> bones with mirror brand but ti's in the shop? ok then 21:36 I thought about doing that with NetHack (a non-persistent-levels branch), but A) unique items would require special care, and also B) I have a fair idea what players would do with it. 21:36 rebatela: No, ADOM is its own game. 21:36 oh ok 21:36 ADOM is an open-world semi-roguelike, along similar lines to Caves of Qud, but more epic high fantasy and less post-apocalyptic survivalist. 21:36 i vaguela remember moria originally being written in pascal??? 21:37 i was just a kid but learning to program 21:37 I've read that, but the only version of moria I've seen is umoria, which is in C. 21:37 ahhh that's it 21:37 yes umoria was when they switched to c 21:38 or i guess more accurately someone probably rewrote it in c 21:42 [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 364 points, 558 turns, killed by a giant bat 21:42 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Law), 199 points, 443 turns, killed by a bear trap 21:42 <@bubbles> And back in London đŸ„ł 21:43 <@rikersan> congrats lol 21:45 <@bubbles> Air travel is pretty amazing tbh 21:47 [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 272 points, 618 turns, killed by a gnome 21:48 [US] [D]: Xaleth (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 2316 points, 4175 turns, killed by a giant ant 21:48 <@bubbles> I arrived before I departed 21:50 <@bubbles> Re to hit do people have any suggestions of simpler existing systems? 21:51 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Law), 375 points, 1147 turns, killed by a giant bat, while dressing up 21:51 [US] [D]: AntiVirus (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1217 points, 2417 turns, killed by a watch captain, while sleeping 21:51 <@rikersan> imo the wack part is the funky series of bonuses 21:51 <@rikersan> it's probably easiest to just use enchantment + dex modifier + skill modifier instead of whatever is used now, which factors other stuff I believe 21:52 <@rikersan> if you make AC go up from 0 vs down from 10, just do an actual check of (d20 + dex mod + skill mod + enc) <= AC means hit 21:53 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 16429 points, T:5805, killed by something while blind 21:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Nob Dro Mal Neu), 133 points, T:103, killed by a kobold 21:53 [US] [D]: bouquet (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 1570 points, 3484 turns, killed by tumbling down a flight of stairs 21:53 Going up vs going down is just an implementation detail 21:54 [US] [D]: tinklebear (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 2892 points, 2976 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted hill orc, while frozen by a monster's gaze 21:54 bubbles: There are two problems with D&D-style AC. One is manifest in NetHack in the way players never miss after a certain point; more generally without a human GM to keep things in check it's hard not to end up either at the "always hit" or "always miss" ends of the scale in a game with many potential bonuses and maluses to stack 21:55 Indeed it is the way player negative AC works that makes it not just straight D&D and ensures monsters don't always miss 21:55 The other is that the utility of AC increases the more you have until a sudden breakpoint where additional AC does no good at all (because the adversary's chance to miss is maximised) 21:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Nob Dro Mal Neu), 607 points, T:1008, killed by a black pudding 21:56 The first can be fixed a bit by dividing up evasion and damage resistance (but the latter has its own potential problems, most obviously trivialising weak attacks but doing nothing against strong ones) 21:57 ...killed by tumbling down a flight of stairs. ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED! 21:57 But a more common system these days seems to be something like "attacker rolls 1d vs defender's 1d" 21:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Con Orc Mal Cha), 125 points, T:204, killed by a newt 21:58 [EU] [D]: RandomHacker (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 1049 points, 1778 turns, killed by a hobbit 21:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Con Orc Mal Cha), 320 points, T:740, killed by a fox 22:02 <@bubbles> I think split to hit and Dr mashed sense 22:03 <@bubbles> Yeah will start of super simple of rolling Vs each other 22:06 <@bubbles> I mean all armor should reduce to hit 22:06 <@bubbles> Err reduce dodge chance 22:06 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 22:06 I think also you want to carefully balance Watsonian and Doylist views 22:07 eg D&D AC makes no sense from a Watsonian POV but practically speaking does work very well for a human-implementable mechanic with a human GM 22:07 <@bubbles> That's true. And people mostly understand it, to a degree 22:08 Also not a benefit you should underestimate, yeah 22:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Con Orc Mal Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2830 22:08 OTOH, say, DCSS's AC vs EV vs SH (vs having a lot of HP) does make for more interesting implications compared to a single number that just goes up 22:09 [US] [D]: allanb (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1226 points, 1814 turns, killed by a Kop Sergeant 22:09 <@luxidream> EV in dcss is basically AC but worse 22:09 <@bubbles> I think maybe enchanting should be mutually exclusive between dodge damage reduction and extrinsics 22:09 Would you rather be Confusing Touching a monster with high AC or high EV? Me too. 22:10 <@luxidream> OK it has some distinctions with monsters, for example, scattershot 22:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Con Orc Mal Cha), 5257 points, T:3203, killed by a watch captain 22:10 [US] [A]: kcostell (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 2614726 points, 40125 turns, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/kcostell/tnnt/dumplog/1573382577.tnnt.html 22:10 <@luxidream> the player usually prefers AC though 22:10 <@bubbles> Gg kcostell 22:10 <{Demo}> i want DR 22:11 <@rikersan> I like DR + AC split if you're reasonable about monster to-hits 22:11 <@bubbles> Dr bubbles will see you now {demo} 22:11 The distinction would be really important in, say, Angband where there are lots of nasty touch attacks 22:11 <@bubbles> Touch ignores ac right? 22:12 Conventionally a "touch" attack either just has to connect to do $bad-thing, or perhaps it has to do 1 point of damage. 22:13 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 6446 points, 11813 turns, killed by a fire ant 22:13 -!- eraserhead97 has joined #hardfought 22:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Con Orc Mal Cha), 51 points, T:369, killed by a grid bug 22:14 if I open a cursed bag and get no "items lost" messages, it's definitely not a BoH? true or false? 22:15 <@bubbles> False 22:15 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 22:15 <@bubbles> Could just be lucky 22:15 <@bubbles> Or rather it's chance 22:15 [Tr] kcostell now has All The Alignments! 22:15 [R] Clan Clan of the Cave Grue advances to rank 6! 22:16 <@bubbles> And hit points are a pretty fine abstraction 22:16 <@bubbles> I was tempted a tiny bit with wounds but I'm not sure that's anak 22:16 <@bubbles> Amazing 22:17 <@rikersan> huh, sting just generated on the floor of the first room 22:17 <@bubbles> Everyone hates loadstones and I feel wounds are not dissimilar 22:17 <@rikersan> aand it's cursed 22:17 <@rikersan> nope 22:17 It's easy to write a system where your combat performance decreases if you're wounded, which sounds great except it's kind of catastrophic in a conventional single-player roguelike. 22:17 <@bubbles> Yeah 22:18 ... less so if you have many emergency options 22:18 <@bubbles> Well if you can grow new arms maybe losing some isn't too bad 22:18 [US] [D]: zoya (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 349602 points, 32539 turns, drowned in a pool of water by an electric eel 22:19 <@bubbles> Also dnh asmo style ac I think works quite well 22:19 <@bubbles> Do people really hate it? 22:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Wiz Dro Mal Neu), 1040 points, T:1076, quit 22:22 <@rikersan> it's fine, his is annoying though 22:22 <@rikersan> it's stupid high 22:22 <@rikersan> pale night & baalphegor are the same and they're more manageable 22:23 @bubbles thx ^^ - so if I open it many, many times and still get no messages, then it's a better chance that it's a non-BoH? lim n->infty(open cursed bag reveals no messages) = non-BoH (likey) 22:23 playing a priest - trying to conserve holy water 22:24 <@PeterQ> Yes 22:25 <@PeterQ> you can put in some differently named stacks of rocks and try a few more times 22:25 <@rikersan> yeah if it's got something it 22:25 oh - that's smart - TY 22:26 <@PeterQ> Or you could do it by picking up rocks until almost encumbered 22:26 <@PeterQ> then put the rocks in the bag 22:26 <@PeterQ> if it's holding you will become encumbered 22:26 ah - it should get HEAVIER if cursed BoH - great trick 22:26 <@bubbles> I actually am the opposite of fiq here. Maybe combat should be assymetric 22:27 <@bubbles> And designed around the fact that the majority of the time in combat you will be outnumbered 22:27 <@bubbles> E.g. You can block /dodge some number of attacks per turn, with a malud for alternating directions 22:28 <@bubbles> But that wouldn't work well for monsters because typically you don't get a large number of attacks 22:28 <@bubbles> Malus not malud 22:35 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 2102 points, T:3068, killed by a magical blast 22:39 * FIQ steps on a Zot trap! bubbles was banished to the Abyss! 22:39 asymmetry at its finest 22:39 step on a zot trap, you're affected. Monsters stepping on a zot trap... and you're still affected 22:39 in dcss 22:40 <@rikersan> adom - monsters can sac you from farther away then you can sac them I believe? 22:40 really? 22:40 that's much more minor though 22:40 I mean, it has drastic consequences 22:40 but the asymmetry difference itself is minor 22:40 I submit the different rules for leaving a Plane with the Amulet is asymmetry at its finest :-) 22:40 <@luxidream> FIQ: what doesn't make sense is how they step on a net trap, dropping a net on you 22:40 Pinkbeast: never liked it 22:40 -!- bouquet has joined #hardfought 22:40 <@luxidream> from across the screen 22:40 @luxidream that 22:40 's stupid 22:40 whoops unplugged the wrong thing! 22:41 I thought only zot traps (and in 0.16, shadow traps) had this ridiculousness 22:41 guess not... 22:41 FIQ: Well, it's not unthinkable to take it out - the monster will amble gently towards the next stop on the ascension run requiring the player to give chase 22:41 Pinkbeast: sure 22:42 FIQ: Much as I like DCSS don't ask me to defend the new 0.23 traps :-) # after all, it was irreconcilable differences with vanilla which caused us to start a fork 22:42 <@luxidream> FIQ: alarm traps will always mark you regardless of who stepped on them 22:42 ooh you made a fork 22:42 what is it called 22:42 FIQ: I mean, I think the monster-ambling is a serious proposal for a NetHack fork that loves symmetry 22:42 @luxidream hmm, does all dcss traps wor like this? 22:42 <@luxidream> I think the only traps that don't affect you are like dart traps lol 22:42 <@luxidream> and those are only in specific vaults 22:42 "monster-ambling"? 22:43 also, the best part 22:43 <@Tone> I don't think DCSS cares about traps making intuitive sense, they just changed them to be a mechanic that worked the way they wanted 22:43 @dcss traps 22:43 is that it's not merely just a stupid way to fix lack of implementation detail 22:43 because allies *are affected by traps themselves* 22:43 so monster trap effects are implemented 22:43 the asymmetry is very much deliberate 22:43 <@Tone> They are a somewhat interesting mechanic, they just don't really make sense as traps at all 22:43 <@ShivanHunter> slex traps best traps :P 22:44 @Tone dcss make a lot of changes like these 22:44 FIQ: The thing above; monsters can leave a Plane with the Amulet, you can then enter the next Plane, you'll find the monster at a position related to the time it took you to get there, working slowly towards the next portal. 22:44 <@luxidream> the new trap system is incredibly stupid 22:44 gameplay over flavour taken much too far, to the point where flavour makes no sense whatsoever sometimes 22:44 Yay, you know where the next portal is. Boo, you have a problem. 22:44 <@luxidream> you can get teleport trap yanked by going downstairs, of no fault of your own 22:44 <@Tone> FIQ: Yeah I noticed a few other mechanics like that when I played 22:44 Pinkbeast: ahh 22:44 <@luxidream> because the chance of triggering a trap isn't based on actually stepping on a square, but determined when you see new squares 22:45 FIQ: Our fork is Stoat Soup - http://crawl.montres.org.uk/scoring/about.html 22:45 what I was considering when I realized this discrepancy 22:45 was to make the portals two-way 22:45 and allow travel at all times 22:45 <@Tone> I agree lux, I don't think I actually like them 22:45 FIQ: For strict symmetry, no-one can leave a Plane until the Amulet leaves it. 22:45 hmm 22:45 Obviously luxi has about 8 million ascensions 22:45 yeah that sounds like a fair way to implement it 22:45 <@Tone> but it can lead to interesting tactics if there's a trap on screen and you have to position differently due to the threat of enemies activating them 22:46 it should also mean that monsters can enter from previous planes if chasing you 22:46 this is actually something I've wanted to implement for some time 22:46 for followers 22:46 and pets 22:46 The "two way travel" thing is simple and elegant but I quite like the idea of desperately chasing a monster that's taken off with the Amulet and is heading for an altar 22:46 making them follow you even if not next to stairs 22:46 with the time taken following depending on how far away from the stairs they are 22:46 ... and hostiles in general so that stair-dancing is not stupidly good :-) 22:46 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1307 points, T:1793, killed by a giant bat 22:46 Pinkbeast: in FIQHack, player monsters can ascend 22:46 <@bubbles> I only meant for hit calculations re symmetry 22:47 no other monster can, though 22:47 [US] [D]: thegame (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 10764 points, 8587 turns, killed by a carnivorous ape 22:47 <@bubbles> Also came up with a name 22:47 <@bubbles> RedHack Enterprise Edition 22:47 <@luxidream> fire vortex follows you from fire and drags you into the water and drowns you 22:47 <@luxidream> seems legit 22:47 FIQ: That I knew - I was envisaging when you get to Astral you now have to beat any player monsters to the amulet-carrying monster, who are also fixated on it 22:47 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 22:47 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 22:48 what I really want to do with this particular thing 22:48 <@luxidream> this is both stupid and doesn't make any sense whatsoever 22:48 is 2 things 22:48 1: any player monsters (including players!) can steal the Amulet when attacking 22:48 I think one could easily decide raw elemental monsters can't head to the opposed plane, but (say) Elvenkings can 22:49 2: make the Astral denizens hootile to player monsters, or you, if carrying the Amulet 22:49 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 22:50 @luxidream unrelated idea for a change: make monsters who likes fire but aren't swimmers slow on the Plane of Water 22:50 in fiqhack, swimmers get a speed boost independent of (very) fast on Plane of Water 22:50 so monsters attuned to fire would perhaps get the reverse effect 22:50 being slowed, independent of the slow status problem 22:51 <@luxidream> shouldn't a fire vortex die upon entering deep water? 22:51 doesn't it already? 22:51 I was thinking in bubbles 22:51 anyway, <@luxidream> fire vortex follows you from fire and drags you into the water and drowns you 22:51 in fh, you no longer instantly die in water 22:51 <@luxidream> 7:44 PM] luxidream: just the other day a fire vortex carried me into the water [7:44 PM] luxidream: on the plane of water [7:44 PM] luxidream: instantly killing me 22:51 <@luxidream> TNNT last year 22:51 rip 22:51 anyway, good to know 22:51 <@luxidream> life saved 22:52 not that instantly dying would be of much help 22:52 <@luxidream> but it was still aggravating 22:52 since it'd just mean you'd get expeled 22:52 *expelled 22:52 ...into the water 22:52 <@luxidream> wouldn't you have a chance to crawl out? 22:52 no 22:52 <@luxidream> since you'd be on the edge of a bubble 22:52 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought 22:52 only voluntarily walking into water can cause that I think? 22:53 or, I should say, "voluntarily" 22:53 ending up in water on your turn 22:53 that tnnt death was a real problem in fh for a time due to water elemental engulfing 22:53 I'm not sure if anyone was actually affected 22:54 but probably 22:54 it was never meant to be a major danger the way it was... just that I hadn't finished implementing stuff 22:54 by the time I burned out on nethack development 22:54 d555q 22:54 <@bubbles> @rikersan thoughts on new name? 22:55 hi lorimer 22:55 focus > me 22:55 Focus: 1 - Lorimer: 0 22:55 some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield 22:56 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1939 points, T:2379, killed by a baby green dragon 22:56 <@rikersan> bubbles: one sec, trying to figure what chris was smoking while creating drow quests 22:58 <@bubbles> Get some for me! 22:58 lorimer what is your favorite variant right now? 22:59 qw 23:00 i'm not sure i ever had a favorite variant unless you count spork which you ought not to 23:00 cos bias and shit 23:00 and i don't think i'm familiar enough with the current state of affairs to make even a finger-in-the-air call 23:00 see, the reason i asked you is because spork was always my favorite 23:01 oh that was also the reason i asked you 23:01 damn 23:01 lorimer: spork introduced orctown, hence it's evil :) 23:01 heh. sorry :) also yay, but yeah... i'd be effectively rolling dice 23:01 <{Demo}> why is there no spoonhack 23:01 orctown less-than-threes you 23:01 <{Demo}> can someone fork spork and make it easier? 23:01 {Demo}: AN UNREALIZED OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU 23:01 <{Demo}> and we can call it spoonhack? 23:02 lorimer: my first introduction to orctown was in, I think, unnethack 23:02 CARPE HACKEM 23:02 there was no shops 23:02 countless orcs 23:02 "what is this nonsense" I thought 23:02 a convertible altar! dozens of dead bodies right near it! 23:02 apparently the game didn't take well to my reception of orctown 23:02 because I then proceeded to get it 3 times in a row 23:02 7+ guaranteed candles! 23:02 uhh 23:02 that is not true 23:02 orctown is very prone to being entirely unhelpful with candles 23:03 orctown is even comfortably closed in so you can enter it after getting the luckstone 23:03 also completely useless in 3.6.x since vlad gives candles anyway 23:03 the only use there is the altar 23:03 the original orctowns had the probability jiggered such that there was a six-nines chance of getting 7+ candles 23:03 containing the fresh orc kills for saccing 23:03 6/9 is way too low to count it as a feature 23:03 99.9999% ;) 23:03 especially since other Minetown variants usually had more... 23:03 oh, not 6/9 lol 23:03 misread 23:03 sorry 23:04 np, i'm used to a different world right now in some ways 23:04 anyway, I'm fairly sure I had no luck with candles in orctown in the variant I found it in 23:04 they're all generated on the floors of the wreckage of the shops 23:04 so you do have to go pick them up but 23:04 only those that have no moral misgivings about abusing scroll of earth mechanics to ban a priest from using his own altar can consider orctown worse than a random minetown 23:04 and even with that said, 3.6.x makes it redundant 23:04 so the only actually useful feature of orctown 23:04 well yeah, but orctown predates 3.6. 23:04 is the altar 23:04 Muad: Or pits. 23:04 Lots of pits. 23:05 oh that works? i don't like the priest to see me though 23:05 anyway, being introduced to orctown by getting it 3-4 times in a row 23:05 they can cast spells at the rocks for all I care. 23:05 "You put on the orange vest. 'SCUSE ME COMING THROUGH!' You shove the priest aside and begin digging." 23:05 to a role who didn't even need an altar that much (was playing priest, IIRC) 23:05 FIQ: I can see where this might dampen your enthusiasm. 23:05 did NOT endear me to it 23:05 since then I've had a very special dislike for it 23:06 to the point where I usually #quit on sight 23:06 well, at least it's early enough for that, too 23:06 (brb, i'm being told i must come see some shelves) 23:06 it is the one thing in nethack that can actually cause me to #quit 23:06 (my enthusiasm is also a bit soggy for this) 23:07 besides tournament startscumming (unique deaths) and pacifist failures 23:08 <@ShivanHunter> US: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 76721 points, 35189 turns, killed by a hill orc named REMOVE ORCTOWN 23:09 [US] [D]: bouquet (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 1998 points, 2949 turns, killed by a tengu 23:10 @ShivanHunter haha 23:10 sometimes I've been tempted to add some orcs in frontier town 23:10 set in such a way that the watchmen has a kill on sight on them 23:10 and they're promptly disposed of (the orcs) 23:10 <@luxidream> 12:04 AM] BOTIRCBot: <@Beholder> hdf-us Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law), 744 points, T:1905, killed by a hill orc called LUXBANE OF FUCKORCTOWN 23:10 <@ShivanHunter> lol 23:11 <@luxidream> 10:33 AM] BOTIRCBot: <@Beholder> hdf-us Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law), 520 points, T:923, killed by a hill orc called Toorwcn of Orctown%SpeedrunWorldRecord 23:11 as a way to say "no I am no tgoing to implement orctown" 23:11 *not going 23:11 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Fem-Law), 12 points, 201 turns, killed by a falling rock 23:11 <@luxidream> 10:30 AM] BOTIRCBot: <@Beholder> hdf-us Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law), 741 points, T:1891, killed by a hill orc called Omathoz of Abolishorctownin3.7 23:12 however if I did that, I'd need to make up a good reason for why the player character isn't affected 23:12 so I didn't 23:14 [EU] [D]: RandomHacker (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 1310 points, 4239 turns, killed by a soldier ant 23:22 [US] [D]: bouquet (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 481 points, 1714 turns, killed by a giant bat 23:22 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 50 points, T:23, killed by a jackal 23:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1309 23:22 !lastgame 23:22 K2: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/unnethack/dumplog/1573514527.un.txt.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/O/OhNoNotAgain/nethack/dumplog/1573239459.nh.html | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/splicehack/dumplog/1573414501.splice.html 23:24 [US] [D]: thegame (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 2692 points, 2523 turns, killed by a warg 23:24 am I the only person who likes orctown on occasion? 23:24 <@ShivanHunter> yes 23:25 <@bubbles> Yes 23:25 bouquet: I had it in Junethack last year, it was OK 23:25 <@bubbles> There should be orc mines end instead. Like in our Lord and savior dnh 23:25 It's a nice change from the usual. Sometimes the RNG giveth, sometimes it giveth orctown. 23:27 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Sam Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:10, killed by a fox 23:27 !lastgame 23:27 K2: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/unnethack/dumplog/1573514821.un.txt.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/O/OhNoNotAgain/nethack/dumplog/1573239459.nh.html | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/splicehack/dumplog/1573414501.splice.html 23:27 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Pir Inf Fem Cha), 130 points, T:465, exterminated by a large mimic 23:27 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 23:27 there we go 23:28 UnNetHack updated (all servers) 23:28 ^ bhaak 23:29 -!- spontiff37 has joined #hardfought 23:43 bouquet: yes 23:44 you are the only person 23:44 my take on orctown is "combine it with a minetown II to balance the loot" 23:45 aosdict's version of orctown is good 23:48 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 337 points, T:801, killed by a gnome 23:48 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Fem-Law), 4500 points, 5206 turns, killed by a gnome king 23:49 bouquet, I agree that orctown is reasonable 23:51 i dont mind it. guaranteed altar you can use 23:51 you can always buy protection later on at the VotD 23:55 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 887 points, T:1481, killed by a wand 23:57 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 165 points, T:433, killed by a bat 23:59 <@bubbles> Bonza the coach is pulling into the station just as greggs opens