00:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Sam Hum Fem Law), 486 points, T:601, killed by a dagger
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00:12 <rld> <@Tone> Hey #hardfought, I'll be livestreaming some TNNT gameplay here: https://www.twitch.tv/tonehack
00:12 <rld> <@Tone> Entering gehennom now with a foodless wizard
00:13 <Pinkbeast> Don't die :-)
00:13 <rld> <@Tone> No promises :)
00:13 <blobular> gl
00:13 <rld> <@rikersan> lmao this is still in my config
00:13 <rld> <@rikersan> "#OPTIONS=role:anachrononaut,race=elf,gender=mal"
00:13 <rld> <@rikersan> flashbacks to 2017 junethack? :)
00:15 <Croesus> [US] [D]: efot (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 399 points, 2786 turns, killed by a giant ant
00:19 <Croesus> [US] [D]: tinklebear (Rog-Orc-Mal-Cha), 664 points, 1561 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted small mimic, while sleeping (and one other game not reported)
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00:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) was given the Pen of the Void, on T:2820
00:28 <Croesus> [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 4 points, 191 turns, killed by a vrock of Anhur
00:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1282 points, T:2705, killed by a giant spider
00:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) was given the Golden Sword of Y'ha-Talla, on T:4065
00:34 <Croesus> [US] [D]: efot (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 715 points, 1986 turns, killed by a dwarf king
00:37 <Croesus> [US] [D]: tinklebear (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 194 points, 683 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted giant rat
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00:40 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Bartlem (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 3006 points, 5815 turns, killed by Juiblex
00:41 <Croesus> [US] [D]: oh6 (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 1069 points, 2742 turns, killed by a boulder
00:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:8469
00:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 blue dragon scale mail", on T:8815
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01:02 <Croesus> [US] [D]: tinklebear (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 757 points, 669 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted bat
01:03 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Bartlem (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 2387 points, 2915 turns, killed by an Uruk-hai called U-othai-ruk of Haiuz
01:10 <Croesus> [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 666 points, 3267 turns, killed by a gnome lord
01:22 <Croesus> [US] [D]: tinklebear (Cav-Hum-Mal-Neu), 579 points, 1331 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted giant bat
01:25 <Croesus> [US] [D]: tinklebear (Cav-Hum-Mal-Neu), 186 points, 190 turns, killed by a magic missile
01:38 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Smugzug (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 3836 points, 5503 turns, killed by a fire ant, while praying
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01:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) was given their Quest, on T:15898
02:03 <rld> <@rikersan> hm, I killed and immediately ate the wraith corpse and still got sick
02:03 <rld> <@rikersan> something's wonky there
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02:07 <jonadab> Aren't wraiths undead?
02:08 <eraserhead97> one would think so...
02:08 <rld> <@rikersan> yeah, I assumed I'd have at least 2 turns before it tainted to eat for a level
02:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] dolores (Sag Ang Fem Cha), 45017 points, T:5966, killed by a monster (evasive soldier ant)
02:11 <K2> @rikersan its undead
02:11 <K2> there's always a chance it'll make you sick
02:11 <K2> undead corpses generate 'old'
02:14 <aosdict> K2: in vanilla, no
02:15 <aosdict> grunt (un? evil? dnh?) incorporates sickness
02:15 <K2> yup
02:15 <K2> old corpses can make you ill
02:15 <aosdict> so, probably dnh incorporates
02:16 <Chris_ANG> I was also noticing that something was wonky there.
02:16 <Beholder> Chris_ANG: Message from bubbles_nhww at 2019-11-04 11:52 EST: There is a lichen corpse here, but you cannot lift any more. (I'm not encumbered)
02:16 <Chris_ANG> Hm
02:22 <Croesus> [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 4279 points, 4326 turns, killed by an owlbear, while paralyzed by a monster (and 4 other games not reported)
02:24 <Croesus> [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 350 points, 190 turns, killed by a rock mole (and 4 other games not reported)
02:24 <rld> <@rikersan> "The invisible darkness given hunger turns into slime! "
02:24 <rld> <@rikersan> nice one chief, I really liked the whole "engulf the poisonous dude" bit
02:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) became the Emissary of Elements, on T:18083
02:29 <Croesus> [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 383 points, 753 turns, killed by a fox (and 17 other games not reported)
02:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 338 points, T:1266, killed by an orc zombie
02:35 <Croesus> [US] [A]: jonathanhanes (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 2988026 points, 65252 turns, ascended (and 16 other games not reported)
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/j/jonathanhanes/tnnt/dumplog/1572843125.tnnt.html
02:36 <Croesus> [Tr] jonathanhanes now has Both Genders!
02:38 <Croesus> [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 988 points, 1176 turns, killed by a dagger (and 25 other games not reported)
02:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) was given Premium Heart, on T:18853
02:40 <rld> <@rikersan> oh HELL yea
02:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Axus, on T:19364
02:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Oona, on T:19968
02:54 <rld> <@rikersan> sorry demo
02:56 <rld> <@rikersan> god, the pen of the void is stupid - this is 8d4 fire + 8d4 water damage, in addition to doubled enchantment (+7)
02:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:20465
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03:01 <Croesus> [US] [Q]: Luxidream (Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha), 2523 points, 2571 turns, quit (and one other game not reported)
03:09 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Luxidream (Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha), 2684 points, 2574 turns, killed by an exploding wand (and 5 other games not reported)
03:11 <Croesus> [US] [D]: k2 (Arc-Hum-Mal-Law), 4077 points, 9426 turns, killed by a hill orc
03:14 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Luxidream (Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha), 1456 points, 1787 turns, killed by a housecat (and 15 other games not reported)
03:19 <Croesus> [US] [D]: OneColdCanuck (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1344 points, 2312 turns, killed by a killer bee, while praying
03:22 <Croesus> [US] [D]: k2 (Arc-Hum-Mal-Law), 204 points, 906 turns, killed by a coyote
03:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] dolores (Wil Ang Fem Cha) killed the valkyrie of PavelB, the former Fighter, on T:6249
03:25 <Croesus> [US] [D]: oh6 (Cav-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1247 points, 4108 turns, killed by a gecko, while fainted from lack of food
03:25 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Luxidream (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 4986 points, 3672 turns, killed by a chameleon imitating a mastodon (and 2 other games not reported)
03:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:23792
03:29 <Croesus> [US] [D]: OtsMcGee (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 404 points, 514 turns, killed by a giant bat
03:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 349 points, T:834, killed by a dagger
03:30 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Luxidream (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 616 points, 1608 turns, killed by an iguana, while praying
03:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed the Great Cthulhu, on T:24653
03:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] dolores (Wil Ang Fem Cha) killed Dango San-kyodai, on T:7374
03:45 <klintos> time to slay some rodney
03:48 <Croesus> [US] [D]: oh6 (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 1111 points, 2751 turns, killed by a gnome
03:53 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Smugzug (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 448 points, 1383 turns, killed by a wererat
03:54 <Croesus> [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 1171 points, 3727 turns, killed by a soldier ant
03:54 <Croesus> [US] [D]: EndlessMike (Rog-Hum-Mal-Cha), 256 points, 1382 turns, killed by a coyote, while fainted from lack of food
03:54 <Croesus> [US] [D]: zoya (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 4328 points, 6703 turns, killed by a giant bat
04:06 <Croesus> [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 277 points, 637 turns, killed by a giant bat
04:10 <rld> <@scj643> Nethack done quick
04:13 <rld> <@rikersan> damn, this helm of OA is -6
04:13 <rld> <@rikersan> that's so godawful I can't even get it that LOW safelyt
04:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed filth-crusted +3 stormbringer", on T:28593
04:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 aegis", on T:28713
04:20 <Croesus> [US] [A]: Grouchy (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 3828176 points, 62266 turns, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Grouchy/tnnt/dumplog/1572639365.tnnt.html
04:20 <Croesus> [Tr] Grouchy now has Highest Scoring Ascension!
04:20 <Croesus> [R] Clan Destine advances to rank 6!
04:21 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 ceramic helm of drain resistance", on T:28998
04:30 <Croesus> [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 616 points, 1777 turns, killed by a giant ant, while fainted from lack of food
04:31 <Croesus> [EU] [A]: ToneHack (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Law), 879420 points, 45307 turns, ascended (and 46 other games not reported)
04:31 <Croesus> https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/T/ToneHack/tnnt/dumplog/1572804754.tnnt.html
04:31 <rld> <@rikersan> congrats tone!
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04:31 <Croesus> [Tr] ToneHack now has Most Conducts in One Ascension!
04:31 <rld> <@rikersan> with foodless too, nice
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04:36 <rld> <@Tone> Thanks 😄
04:36 <Croesus> [US] [A]: JohnKeel (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2815354 points, 54048 turns, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/J/JohnKeel/tnnt/dumplog/1572789175.tnnt.html
04:36 <Croesus> TOURNAMENT MILESTONE: 100 million nethack points scored.
04:37 <rld> <@Tone> Ascension train hype
04:37 <rld> <@Tone> grats @John Keel 😄
04:37 <rld> <@John Keel> Woohoo!
04:37 <rld> <@John Keel> I was very lucky that run - four different wand of wishing
04:38 <rld> <@John Keel> (if you were in #nethack-tnnt, you saw a bunch of silly wishes to get a few other weird acheivements)
04:38 <Croesus> [R] Clan Read Long Worm advances to rank 8!
04:41 <rld> <@Tone> Wow, nice!
04:42 <Croesus> [US] [D]: jonathanhanes (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 793 points, 1832 turns, killed by a gnome king (and 55 other games not reported)
04:46 <Croesus> [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 5971 points, 6016 turns, killed by a fall onto poison spikes (and 9 other games not reported)
04:46 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> bloody hell
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04:49 <rld> <@Tone> :/
04:49 <rld> <@Tone> I didn't have poison resist for like 10k+ turns that last game and was terrified every time I saw a poison monster
04:49 <rld> <@Tone> and I had to deal with orctown...
04:50 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> yep. foodless atheist basically never gets poison resist, and I'd already fought off several waves of bees using my bugle, but RNG says nope!
04:50 <rld> <@Tone> can you scum for a ring of poison resist too, or are you already scumming for a very specific start?
04:51 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> I'm basically just scumming for =oSD and scare tool (horn, drum, or if you must, bugle, though that's suboptimal)
04:51 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> and I'
04:51 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> ll throw away a game that has those if the rest of the roll REALLY sucks (e.g. hunger casting)
04:52 <rld> <@Tone> ah, that's what I started with that last game
04:52 <rld> <@Tone> had 16 int on my elf though
04:52 <rld> <@Tone> but wasn't atheist so not a big deal
04:52 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> a while ago I was scumming for any polymorph item as well, but I was spending ages just quitting games
04:57 <Croesus> [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 4764 points, 6281 turns, killed by a soldier ant (and one other game not reported)
04:57 <Croesus> [US] [D]: dingotron (Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha), 4450 points, 4945 turns, killed by a plains centaur
04:58 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought
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05:04 <Croesus> [US] [D]: EndlessMike (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 1658 points, 1885 turns, killed by a riding accident
05:04 <Croesus> [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 299 points, 535 turns, killed by a water demon
05:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Shelob, on T:30204
05:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed the high shaman of Moloch, on T:30378
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05:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Lungorthin, on T:30457
05:15 <Croesus> [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 1080 points, 2560 turns, killed by a giant beetle
05:23 <Croesus> [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2033 points, 3891 turns, killed by a gnome
05:30 <Croesus> [US] [A]: klintos (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2248632 points, 65096 turns, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/klintos/tnnt/dumplog/1572674432.tnnt.html
05:31 <Croesus> [R] Clan Bane of Rodney advances to rank 8!
05:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Belial, on T:33520
05:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Fierna, on T:33521
05:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed the invisible Malcanthet, on T:33842
05:40 <Croesus> [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 1057 points, 2225 turns, killed by a gnomish wizard
05:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Baalzebub, on T:34035
05:42 <Croesus> [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 63 points, 190 turns, killed by a sewer rat (and 27 other games not reported)
05:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Baphomet, on T:34363
05:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Glasya, on T:34741
05:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Daemon, on T:34949
05:53 <Croesus> [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 276 points, 1673 turns, killed by a large kobold
05:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed Cerberus, on T:35317
05:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Pri Hum Mal Law), 2402 points, T:4677, killed by a dwarf zombie
05:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:35427
05:56 <Croesus> [US] [D]: k2 (Arc-Hum-Mal-Law), 3138 points, 2773 turns, killed by a rothe
06:00 <Croesus> Current Day as of 2019-11-06 06:00 UTC: Games: 263, Asc: 5, Scum: 210. 410989 turns, 12833425 points. 5d 01:40 gametime. (38%Wiz), (53%Hum), (40%Cha), (51%Mal), 24d 17:59 remaining.
06:03 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
06:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:36009
06:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) performed the invocation, on T:36145
06:06 <Croesus> [US] [D]: k2 (Arc-Hum-Mal-Law), 691 points, 1169 turns, killed by a brown mold (and one other game not reported)
06:07 <rld> <@rikersan> oh he appeared on time this game
06:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:36209
06:08 <Croesus> [US] [D]: k2 (Arc-Hum-Mal-Law), 117 points, 284 turns, killed by a jackal
06:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed greased arkenstone", on T:36278
06:12 <Croesus> [US] [A]: Luxidream (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 1322082 points, 37198 turns, ascended (and one other game not reported)
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/tnnt/dumplog/1573011064.tnnt.html
06:13 <rld> <@Tone> grats lux 😄
06:14 <rld> <@luxidream> thanks Tone
06:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) entered the Planes, on T:37526
06:21 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 523 points, 1340 turns, killed by a giant rat, while fainted from lack of food
06:22 <Croesus> [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Mon-Hum-Fem-Law), 247178 points, 16786 turns, killed by Asmodeus
06:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) destroyed Pestilence, on T:37868
06:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) killed the invisible Center of All, on T:37886
06:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) destroyed Famine, on T:37919
06:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) destroyed Death, on T:38008
06:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non), 8014807 points, T:38032, ascended
06:26 <Beholder> https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/dnethack/dumplog/1572999561.dnh.txt
06:26 <rld> <@rikersan> full tour
06:26 <rld> <@rikersan> bat people are fun
06:27 <rld> <@luxidream> gg
06:27 <rld> <@rikersan> that should be 9 keys too, I think I ascended with all 1st and 2nds, 3rds went to the VOTD
06:28 <rld> <@rikersan> and interestingly enough - that's survivor, normally I burn hella "oLS
06:29 <rld> <@Tone> grats riker!
06:33 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 568 points, 1160 turns, killed by a werejackal
06:34 <Croesus> [US] [D]: k2 (Arc-Hum-Mal-Law), 1471 points, 4999 turns, killed by a manes
06:35 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 107 points, 461 turns, killed by a falling rock
06:35 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 12 points, 112 turns, killed by a jackal
06:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 1213 points, T:2481, killed by a crossbow bolt
06:39 <rld> <@rikersan> ty tone, luxi
06:44 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 469 points, 2260 turns, killed by a manes
06:45 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> lol I found a wand of wishing
06:45 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought
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06:47 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> hardfought lagging for anyone else or is it comcast again
06:47 <rld> <@luxidream> comcast
06:47 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> bleh, brb
06:51 <Croesus> [US] [D]: k2 (Arc-Hum-Mal-Law), 544 points, 2068 turns, killed by a coyote
07:00 <rld> <@ShivanHunter> orctowwwwwwn
07:01 -!- stenno\proc has joined #hardfought
07:05 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Grouchy (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 7399 points, 7356 turns, killed by a large cat
07:09 -!- TheGame20___ has joined #hardfought
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07:14 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 887 points, 3059 turns, killed by a gecko, while frozen by a monster's gaze
07:17 <Croesus> [AU] [D]: djm2000 (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1797 points, 3533 turns, killed by a killer bee
07:22 <Croesus> [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 896 points, 3197 turns, killed by a rabid rat, while praying
07:27 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1003 points, 2038 turns, killed by a Woodland-elf (and one other game not reported)
07:32 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: oh my god why did you block magicbymccauley's sock account for only 3 days, his original account was blocked *permanently* so any sockpuppets should also be banned permanently; history has shown that he just waits out the ban otherwise and then the trolling resumes where it left off
07:32 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from bug_sniper at 2019-11-04 22:33 EST: guess it's time to start logging channels
07:32 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from bug_sniper at 2019-11-04 22:34 EST: alternatively, start adding the nice patch ideas you've been overlooking while digging out the evil patch ideas
07:33 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 104 points, 328 turns, killed by a large mimic
07:33 <Croesus> [AU] [A]: Numbgoon (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3089610 points, 48129 turns, ascended
07:33 <Croesus> https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/N/Numbgoon/tnnt/dumplog/1572589686.tnnt.html
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07:34 <Croesus> [R] Clan #pray advances to rank 9!
07:36 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 127 points, 842 turns, killed by a jackal, while fainted from lack of food
07:39 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 255 points, 819 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion
07:44 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1282 points, 1353 turns, killed by a giant bat (and one other game not reported)
07:59 <Andrio> @?lurker above
07:59 <Beholder> lurker above (t) | Lvl: 10 | Diff: 12 | Spd: 3 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: sheol gehennom dungeons | AC: 3 | Attacks: 1d8 engulf digest | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, flies, stalker
08:07 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 3192 points, 5396 turns, killed by a rabid rat
08:17 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 814 points, 1949 turns, killed by a straw golem, while fainted from lack of food
08:19 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 130 points, 539 turns, killed by a giant mimic
08:25 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Pri-Hum-Fem-Cha), 119 points, 608 turns, killed by a dwarf
08:28 <rld> <@luxidream> looool mccauley 2?
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09:00 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 4280 points, 13470 turns, killed by a giant beetle
09:02 -!- stenno\proc has joined #hardfought
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09:18 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: joes (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 500 points, 1084 turns, killed by a rothe
09:19 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 181 points, 673 turns, killed by a water moccasin
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09:24 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Luxidream (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 958 points, 2413 turns, killed by a cave spider
09:25 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 636 points, 1096 turns, killed by an anti-magic implosion
09:28 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 231 points, 590 turns, killed by a sewer rat
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09:44 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Luxidream (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 8180 points, 6656 turns, killed by a leocrotta (and one other game not reported)
09:45 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: rsa (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 636 points, 5385 turns, killed by a kobold lord, while frozen by a monster's gaze
09:53 -!- joes has joined #hardfought
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09:57 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Luxidream (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Cha), 6029 points, 3102 turns, killed by a hill orc called Zuulu of Akhagoru
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10:27 <Croesus> [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 756 points, 682 turns, killed by a bolt of lightning
10:36 <Croesus> [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 433 points, 1145 turns, killed by a black pudding
10:36 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 6132 points, 5622 turns, killed by a soldier ant
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10:47 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 55 points, 300 turns, killed by a boulder
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10:59 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Luxidream (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Cha), 298 points, 279 turns, killed by a bear trap (and 5 other games not reported)
11:00 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Luxidream (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Cha), 38 points, 246 turns, killed by a boiling potion (and 2 other games not reported)
11:03 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 917 points, 1714 turns, killed by a pony
11:04 <LarienTelrunya> lol is it intentional that in 3.6 you can "produce a kaleidoscopic display of floating butterfiles"? Is a "butterfile" a file covered with butter where you glue the butterflies you caught?
11:05 <stennowork> i doubt that its intentional, and you should submit a bug
11:05 <Pinkbeast> A butterfile is a device for reducing the size of butter
11:05 <LarienTelrunya> heh, I've never submitted a bug, and don't know where the bug tracker page is
11:05 <stennowork> then i will submit it and get all the fame
11:05 <LarienTelrunya> heh, do it :D
11:06 <stennowork> and then afterwards i tell you were to do it
11:08 -!- stenno\proc has joined #hardfought
11:10 <stennowork> ok, submitted
11:10 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought
11:10 <stennowork> LarienTelrunya, here is the beautiful contact form http://nethack.org/common/contact.html
11:11 <LarienTelrunya> lol that contact form requires data that can be difficult to get... all that data about the PC? I'd have to dig through the windows control panel to get those :P
11:11 <stennowork> i usually leave that open
11:11 <LarienTelrunya> and in the case of doubt, at least one of those things wouldn't be displayed under "system"
11:11 <stennowork> its not relevant for many bugs
11:12 <stennowork> (for example its not at all relevant for this bug)
11:12 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1672 points, 3354 turns, killed by a rabid rat (and 2 other games not reported)
11:12 <LarienTelrunya> heh, that's what I wanted to imply :P  although I do have to admit that in slex I've seen a bug that happened on windows 7 but not on XP
11:13 <LarienTelrunya> huh their bug list page still lists "Saving the game while both punished and engulfed can result in a corrupt save file.", I thought they had fixed that already (after all I got the fix for that from 3.6)
11:14 <LarienTelrunya> ooh "Saving bones with perm_invent on may result in "Bad fruit #N" warnings.", I'd love to know the fix for that because the bug is also in slex
11:14 <bubbles_nhww91> The fix is to rewrite in c++
11:14 <bubbles_nhww91> obvs!
11:14 <bubbles_nhww91> :-D
11:15 <LarienTelrunya> hi bubbles_nhww91! bigslex 2.57 is available on the esm server and playtesters are wanted! *bubblebubblebubble* ♥
11:15 <bubbles_nhww91> What's a bligslex?
11:15 <LarienTelrunya> oh I never told you about bigslex? wait a minute
11:15 <stennowork> its silly but i find the idea very awesome
11:16 <LarienTelrunya> this beautiful screenshot is from bigslex: https://www.reddit.com/r/slashemextended/comments/9umph2/bigslex_the_new_bigger_slex_variant_has_gone_live/ :)
11:16 <bubbles_nhww91> Is it slex but the dungeons are 500x500? :hmm:
11:16 <LarienTelrunya> hahaha, not quite, but you went in the right direction ;)
11:16 <bubbles_nhww91> So I will have to make a new terminal profile wiht a smaller font, fair enough
11:16 <bubbles_nhww91> Hmm interesting. bigger maps.
11:17 <bubbles_nhww91> I am trying to come up with downsides
11:17 <bubbles_nhww91> But I can't
11:17 <LarienTelrunya> well one downside is that maze levels don't always construct themselves properly, e.g. the catacombs mines end variant has walls everywhere in bigslex :(
11:17 <LarienTelrunya> meaning without digging it's impossible to traverse
11:17 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 111 points, 547 turns, killed by a fox
11:18 <LarienTelrunya> also a "downside" (depending on point of view) is that fullscreen maze levels have about 3x the amount of real estate, so without mapping help it takes forever to find the stairs :P
11:21 <Croesus> [US] [A]: Merlek (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2940488 points, 65364 turns, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/M/Merlek/tnnt/dumplog/1572852985.tnnt.html
11:25 <LarienTelrunya> ah well, gonna go home now, do some annoying household work there and then I can finally play again (hopefully)! :)
11:32 <bubbles_nhww91> Mazes are evil
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11:40 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 539 points, 1079 turns, killed by a giant ant, while fainted from lack of food
11:42 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 139 points, 370 turns, killed by a giant rat
11:50 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha), 426 points, 1353 turns, killed by a large dog called FAMILIARIS
11:52 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 79 points, 368 turns, killed by a large mimic
11:59 <Croesus> [US] [D]: efot (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 3067 points, 4772 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion
12:00 <Croesus> Current Day as of 2019-11-06 12:00 UTC: Games: 326, Asc: 8, Scum: 220. 679963 turns, 20491717 points. 9d 03:54 gametime. (47%Wiz), (44%Hum), (38%Neu), (64%Fem), 24d 11:59 remaining.
12:02 <Croesus> [US] [D]: efot (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 208 points, 585 turns, killed by a bolt of cold
12:09 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2012 points, 3000 turns, killed by a hill orc
12:10 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought
12:19 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 592 points, 1686 turns, killed by a giant spider
12:22 <Croesus> [AU] [D]: DarkLightDragon (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 118496 points, 18292 turns, killed by a troll
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12:32 <bubbles_nhww> Strength 18/** behaviour, is there any reason for this other than "legacy"?
12:32 <stennowork> no
12:32 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 914 points, 3035 turns, killed by a homunculus
12:32 <stennowork> er or rather
12:33 <stennowork> this is taken from DnD
12:33 <stennowork> so idk if you could call it 'legacy' as such
12:33 <bubbles_nhww> I would call that legacy
12:33 <bubbles_nhww> It maps onto a regular int anyway
12:33 <bubbles_nhww> Code-wise
12:33 <bubbles_nhww> I mean specifically the 18-19 behaviour
12:34 <stennowork> yes, this behaviour is emulated from dnd
12:34 <bubbles_nhww> I guess stennowork the main question is "if strength just acted like every other stat, would anyone care/miss it"?
12:34 <Croesus> [US] [D]: klintos (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 784 points, 1805 turns, killed by a rothe
12:34 <stennowork> probably not
12:34 <bubbles_nhww> And it simplifies code
12:34 <stennowork> but you' have to rebalance a lot of monsters
12:34 <stennowork> giants
12:35 <stennowork> its probably not worth the effort to touch this imo
12:35 <stennowork> i would assume that this kind of change would introduce a lot of bugs
12:36 <bubbles_nhww> New codebase innit
12:36 <bubbles_nhww> Otherwise yeah I wouldn't touch!
12:36 <bubbles_nhww> I'm not completely mad
12:39 <stennowork> if you develop from scratch anyway, then it should be fine
12:39 <bubbles_nhww> *nods*
12:39 <bubbles_nhww> Thanks!
12:39 <bubbles_nhww> Still planning on 1-25 
12:39 <bubbles_nhww> I guess 3-25
12:39 <bubbles_nhww> Trying to strike a balance between not carrying legacy for legacy reasons, but not change it too much that people don't know what's going on
12:41 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 702 points, 1475 turns, killed by a wand
12:41 <stennowork> fair enough
12:41 <stennowork> thats a tight rope
12:41 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 147 points, 228 turns, killed by a gnome
12:41 <bubbles_nhww> Yep, I'll defo fail a bit but the aim is to minimise the total amount of failure!
12:42 <bubbles_nhww> e.g. by nagging people in here :-)
12:42 <stennowork> dont worry about failure that much
12:42 <stennowork> in the worst case its an educational experience
12:43 <bubbles_nhww> indeedly!
12:43 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Cav-Dwa-Mal-Law), 1437 points, 2386 turns, killed by a plains centaur
12:44 <stennowork> and prepare to fail because 'rewriting nethack in X language' is a meme going around for decades now
12:44 <stennowork> i think there is a successful ANSI-C port
12:47 <bubbles_nhww> oh yeah for sure
12:47 <bubbles_nhww> One of the big things is not being able to leverage the content
12:47 <bubbles_nhww> So even if the engine is sound it's quite difficult to motivate to actually churn out a game
12:48 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 9101 points, 10208 turns, killed by an invisible stalker
12:49 <Croesus> [US] [D]: engelson (Cav-Hum-Mal-Neu), 98 points, 531 turns, killed by a falling rock
12:50 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 10 points, 205 turns, killed by a sewer rat
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13:03 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1358 points, 3296 turns, killed by a white unicorn
13:03 <Croesus> [AU] [D]: DarkLightDragon (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 671 points, 1364 turns, killed by a giant ant
13:08 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 107 points, 1025 turns, killed by a newt, while fainted from lack of food
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13:28 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: I wasn't the one who originally made the call to block him permanently and paxed (who was) decided not to deal with it yesterday, so this was to stop further trolling from going on in the interim
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13:29 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: ah I see, but you can be pretty sure that he'll sit there staring at his monitor clock waiting until it hits 20:30 on nov 8 and then resume trolling
13:29 <LarienTelrunya> (he = mbm, obviously)
13:30 <Croesus> [AU] [D]: DarkLightDragon (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 254 points, 1109 turns, killed by a bat
13:30 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: khamul (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 32029 points, 10893 turns, killed by a mumak
13:31 <stennowork> sorry for that, bhaak 
13:31 <stennowork> didn't read carefully enough
13:33 <K2> mbm will just access the site from another ip address to get around any bans
13:34 <K2> that and use a different user account
13:34 <K2> eventually he should tire of it
13:34 <K2> depends how strong the troll in him is
13:38 <LarienTelrunya> well, if the admins persistently and quickly permaban his alternate accounts he might get tired of it; if people actually engage with his shouting or (worst of all) concede any points to him, he'll troll even more
13:39 <LarienTelrunya> thing is, this dunderhead actually thinks he has obtained complete enlightenment and is presenting his "absolute truths" to us stupid people, because he's living in his own world where he is always right and those who disagree are evil, or something
13:39 <stennowork> what is that about?
13:40 <LarienTelrunya> stennowork: mbm, the troll that appeared on nethackwiki a while ago, and who was permabanned but now decided to be a wiseguy and come at us again with an alternate account
13:40 <stennowork> ouch :(
13:40 <stennowork> that is unpleasant
13:41 <LarienTelrunya> I mean, look at this garbage: https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Talk%3AOrcus&type=revision&diff=128998&oldid=128460
13:41 <LarienTelrunya> that alone should be grounds for an instant perma including instant permas for any alternate accounts he registers...
13:43 <stennowork> wat
13:43 <stennowork> oh no
13:43 <aosdict> the particular reason I knocked him off this time was not because of the talk page stuff in particular but because he vandalized the style guide
13:43 <stennowork> oh was that the person who started with the artifact weapon article?
13:44 <Pinkbeast> There was some older damage than that
13:46 <LarienTelrunya> we should edit the style guide to include a paragraph saying "If your username is 'magicbymccauley', you must TYPE EVERY OTHER SENTENCE IN ALL CAPS and SHOUT AT THE DEV TEAM for your edits to be approved", just to troll him. :P  [/sarcasm]
13:49 <alex___> so instead of banning him, just use a whitelist
13:49 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1028 points, 1772 turns, killed by an orcish arrow
13:50 <aosdict> alex___: no, random people fairly regularly join the wiki and make helpful edits
13:51 <Croesus> [AU] [A]: ogmobot (Rog-Hum-Mal-Cha), 2778912 points, 40435 turns, ascended
13:51 <Croesus> https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/o/ogmobot/tnnt/dumplog/1572674407.tnnt.html
13:51 <aosdict> and one troll shouldn't be enough to have the whole wiki disable account-less editing
13:51 <alex___> banning will never have any effect on a system like that
13:51 <alex___> if anyone can edit, then everyone can edit
13:51 <alex___> including banned people
13:52 <LarienTelrunya> alex___: or a multiple choice entry test, question 1: "Another wiki user disagrees with a change you made. What do you do? a) back off, b) ask politely why he disagrees, c) revert his edits without asking or d) SHOUT AT HIM FOR DARING TO QUESTION YOUR TRUTHS". Registering an account will fail (and enact an automatic 24h block) if the answer c or d
13:52 <LarienTelrunya> was given. :P
13:52 <Croesus> [R] Clan #pray advances to rank 6!
13:53 <stennowork> i should foudn another clan called 'rank 6'
13:53 <stennowork> apparently rank 6 is very popular
13:54 <alex___> why is it that "one troll" shouldn't be enough though
13:54 <ilbelkyr> LarienTelrunya: ah, but he took options C and D thinking "why not both?"
13:55 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [evil] mightyquinn (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 892 points, T:2350, killed by a dart
13:56 <LarienTelrunya> alex___: because then the troll would have power over us, by forcing us to change the whole system just because of him
13:57 <alex___> i feel you have a very emotional connection to this. why not be pragmatic and just change a non-working system?
13:58 <alex___> doesnt he have power over you anyway by making you ban him and reverse his changes all the time
13:58 <aosdict> blocking is a two-click process, rolling back edits is a one-click process
13:58 <ilbelkyr> this feels like a kind of hypothetical discussion based on "what if magic* anonymously vandalizes the wiki"
13:58 <alex___> it's not if you have to rollback again later
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14:00 <aosdict> yes so far mbm has sockpuppeted but not done any vpn/tor/ipspoof tricks
14:00 <ilbelkyr> I mean generally, allowing anonymous access vs requiring registration vs requiring a human to whitelist you is a matter of balancing the barrier of entry. too low and you'll need to spend more resources fighting abuse, too high and you'll discourage legit use
14:01 <ilbelkyr> the same thing comes up with e.g. IRC channels and requiring a registered account for them
14:01 <aosdict> I don't think even wikipedia uses a whitelist.
14:03 <LarienTelrunya> ilbelkyr: haha :D  (re: taking both options)
14:07 <LarienTelrunya> also if mbm wanted to anonymously vandalize the wiki, he could already have done so, yet he went through the trouble of registering another sock account
14:09 <Pinkbeast> I think his highly distinctive style makes anonymous attacks not much of a threat
14:10 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
14:10 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Ashpool (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 3666 points, 2048 turns, killed by a killer bee
14:12 <LarienTelrunya> Pinkbeast: yep, everyone with more than two brain cells would immediately recognize it's him
14:12 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 2053 points, 2956 turns, killed by a jaguar
14:13 <Pinkbeast> After a week in Whitby I'm not sure I have two operating brain cells
14:16 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Anerag (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 3833 points, 3433 turns, killed by a hill orc called Ogthosog of Aiakhaoth
14:18 <bubbles_nhww> How angry would he be if I corrected a mistake on https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Magicbymccauley/Better_artifact ?
14:19 <stennowork> no need to further provoke or engage a troll
14:20 <bubbles_nhww> Grumble you're right of course
14:21 <LarienTelrunya> bubbles_nhww: wait, do you mean there's still leftovers of his trite on that page? if that is so, it should definitely be corrected
14:21 <Pinkbeast> LarienTelrunya: No, that's in his user space
14:22 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
14:22 <LarienTelrunya> oh, well his user space is a place that we better don't touch at all; let him troll in there all day long, where it doesn't affect us or regular users :P
14:22 <bhaak> stennowork: no problem. it's unfortunate that it even happened and they lost a lot of goodwill that was left. but at least the corpse is in good hands now
14:24 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 300 points, 581 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion
14:25 <stennowork> alright
14:26 <bubbles_nhww> Which corpse?
14:26 <bubbles_nhww> What happened?
14:26 <stennowork> sourceforge
14:26 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 184 points, 595 turns, killed by a jackal
14:26 <stennowork> and illicit practices they used to do
14:26 -!- hdf-guest-6 has joined #hardfought
14:27 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought
14:27 <Croesus> [AU] [D]: DarkLightDragon (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 246 points, 950 turns, killed by a falling object
14:29 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Hill (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 128479 points, 29626 turns, killed by a captain, while praying
14:29 <jonadab> Wait, how did sourceforge get mixed up with Reiser?
14:30 <stennowork> jonadab, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge#Project_hijackings_and_bundled_malware
14:30 <jonadab> Oh, that stuff.
14:30 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 73 points, 1532 turns, fell into a pit
14:32 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 91 points, 428 turns, killed by an arrow
14:33 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought
14:35 <Andrio> @?Demogorgon
14:35 <Beholder> Demogorgon (&) | Lvl: 106 | Diff: 57 | Spd: 15 | Res: fire poison drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 95 | Generates: unique | AC: -8 | Attacks: 8d6 cast spell, 1d4 sting level drain, 1d6 claw disease, 1d6 claw disease | Alignment: -20 | Flags: flies, seeinvis, poisonous, nopoly, demon, stalker, covetous, infravisible
14:40 <LarienTelrunya> I've always been suspicious of sourceforge; thankfully back in the day when I had the choice between that and github, I chose the latter for slex :)
14:40 <LarienTelrunya> (mainly because I found sf's interface to be clunky, actually)
14:43 <aosdict> github is microsoft now, though I imagine that doesn't matter much to you
14:44 <stennowork> i don't think it matters much to anyone really
14:44 <LarienTelrunya> well my personal opinion is that microsoft isn't as bad as its reputation
14:45 <{Demo}> there's no avoiding m$ at this point
14:45 <stennowork> my personal opinion is that microsoft was really terrible, but really improved in the last years
14:45 <stennowork> ms embraces foss now
14:45 <bubbles_nhww> How bad do you think this looks: https://qbin.io/unable-layers-r0wc
14:45 <stennowork> .net core is FOSSed, vscode is foss
14:45 <bubbles_nhww> Note: I did a schema so if you typo you get squiggles
14:45 <stennowork> Terminal is foss
14:46 * stennowork prefers json to xml
14:46 <{Demo}> stennowork: embrace, extend, extinguish
14:46 <bubbles_nhww> i.e. https://i.imgur.com/sHxjclm.png
14:46 <stennowork> {Demo}, not anymore
14:46 <stennowork> they did that
14:47 <bubbles_nhww> So if you miss a stat for example, you get a relatively nice error.
14:47 <{Demo}> bubbles it's 2019 why are you writing anything new that uses xml
14:47 <stennowork> of course we remember ballmer who called Linux/GPL a cancer
14:48 <stennowork> microsoft went down after they couldn't establish themself on the mobile market and had to revisit their strategies in order to stay alive
14:48 <stennowork> and is now i think the most valuable company?
14:48 <bubbles_nhww> {Demo} look at the nice error message
14:48 <{Demo}> satan never changes
14:48 <stennowork> because they really really did it well 
14:48 <stennowork> {Demo}, disagree
14:48 <bubbles_nhww> And {Demo} it's 2019 so with a decent editor it's super clean/nice to write
14:49 <bubbles_nhww> You get tab completion and everything for the custom types
14:49 <stennowork> you should really use json tho :{
14:49 <stennowork> xml is a thing of the past
14:49 <{Demo}> bubbles that's hard to disagree with but there's definitely a better hipster yaml or json fork option
14:49 <stennowork> thats not a yaml thing
14:49 <stennowork> fun fact: yaml is a superset of json
14:50 <{Demo}> I'm sure someone has some yaml fork where you can do schemas
14:50 <bubbles_nhww> I don't care about hipster
14:50 <{Demo}> json sucks, doesn't even have comments, use some variation
14:50 <bubbles_nhww> json doesn't have comments
14:50 <stennowork> haha
14:50 <bubbles_nhww> And in the end it's no nicer/less-nice to use than xml really
14:50 <{Demo}> there are json variants that are the right choice for this
14:51 <stennowork> 'json doesn't have comments' v cute
14:51 <{Demo}> nah xml is terrible and I'd rather die
14:51 <bubbles_nhww> I think it's more the tooling is so mature for xml etc
14:51 <bubbles_nhww> {Demo} I am going to make you a video
14:53 <bhaak> that json even needs variants just for comments or date shows how broken it is
14:53 <stennowork> at least json has arrays
14:53 <stennowork> unlike xml
14:53 <stennowork> one would think that arrays are important
14:53 <bubbles_nhww> Xml does have arrays :hmm:
14:54 <bhaak> xml also has schemas.
14:54 <bhaak> and compared to json they are even usable
14:54 <stennowork> oh yeah if this is about schemas specifically, of course json is not a good choice
14:55 <bubbles_nhww> I love schemas
14:55 <stennowork> but if its for serialization, its a fine choice
14:55 <bubbles_nhww> I will show you why:
14:55 <bubbles_nhww> Give me a min
14:55 <stennowork> how would '{"foo": [1,2,3]}' look in xml?
14:56 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 5725 points, 6053 turns, petrified by a chickatrice
14:56 <bhaak> it doesn't matter how it looks like.
14:57 <bubbles_nhww> <foo><n>1</n><n>2</n><n>3</n></foo> e.g.
14:57 <bhaak> it matters how you process ist
14:57 <stennowork> bubbles_nhww, what is 'n' ?
14:57 <Andrio> @?red dragon
14:57 <Beholder> No such monster.
14:57 <bubbles_nhww> Your schema defines it
14:57 <Andrio> You what?
14:57 <bhaak> reading or writing XML by hand is a thing of the past
14:57 <Andrio> @v?red dragon
14:57 <Beholder> red dragon (D) | Lvl: 15 | Diff: 20 | Spd: 9 | Res: fire | Confers: fire | MR: 20 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: -1 | Attacks: 6d6 breath fire, 3d8 bite physical, 1d4 claw physical, 1d4 claw physical | Alignment: -4 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, flies, thick hide, oviparous, seeinvis, infravisible
14:57 <stennowork> ok, so a format that should not be handled manually
14:57 <bubbles_nhww> bhaak I agree mostly but this video shows how powerful hand writing with a good schema can be:
14:57 <stennowork> cool stuff
14:57 <bubbles_nhww> https://i.imgur.com/emjsjdE.mp4
14:58 <bhaak> document.xpath('/foo/n') -> Array
14:58 <bubbles_nhww> Seriously watch that ^
14:58 <bubbles_nhww> And the main main main advantage is when you read it it is wordy but completely unambiguous
14:58 <bhaak> sure, you can do it, and there are good tools nowadays, but I wouldn't usually do it.
14:59 <bubbles_nhww> I think for something like defining role/race stats, or item attributes it's fine
14:59 <bhaak> bubbles_nhww: yes for the latter
14:59 <bubbles_nhww> Reading > writing imo
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15:00 <{Demo}> it's really cohesive with your editor
15:00 <bubbles_nhww> {Demo} that's just vscode
15:00 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 598 points, 458 turns, killed by a dwarf
15:00 <bubbles_nhww> But I think any editor nowadays will suck in the schema to give you that type of editing 
15:01 <bubbles_nhww> any programmer-notepad-editor I guess
15:01 <bubbles_nhww> And you can check on the command line for errors too, i.e. as part of the build process
15:02 <bubbles_nhww> Can specify the ranges/types of everything so e.g. you can't typo a "bad" stat value, for example
15:02 <aosdict> bubbles_nhww: I'd go with yaml for stats or attributes
15:02 <aosdict> much less clunky syntax
15:03 <bubbles_nhww> Can I do yaml schemas?
15:03 <bubbles_nhww> I am not against things
15:03 <bubbles_nhww> Can do a yaml<->xml transform most of the time too
15:03 <aosdict> as a vim user allergic to clunky IDEs I don't think much of languages that require the editor to do a lot of legwork for you
15:04 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Mon-Hum-Fem-Cha), 473 points, 685 turns, killed by a wand
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15:04 <{Demo}> but aosdict you can get a vim plugin for it!
15:05 <aosdict> happily I don't have any data I want to format as xml
15:06 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1524 points, 1493 turns, killed by a wand
15:07 <bhaak> you should get a language server protocol
15:07 <bhaak> plugin
15:09 <bubbles_nhww> Note I was using vim emulation in thav video!
15:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed rustproof +2 Mjollnir", on T:5366
15:09 <bubbles_nhww> But yeah every editor has some lsp or plugin for it
15:09 <bubbles_nhww> New thought: typescript!
15:09 <stennowork> how about just writing api docs :thinking:
15:09 <bubbles_nhww> stennowork this is for config files
15:09 <bubbles_nhww> So at some point they need to be verified
15:09 <bubbles_nhww> or "compiled"
15:10 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: thorsb (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 5 points, 322 turns, killed by an unsuccessful polymorph
15:11 <bhaak> stennowork: why write documentation that will be ignored as it can't be enforced on the code level?
15:11 <bouquet> !pom
15:11 <Beholder> bouquet: The moon is waxing gibbous; full moon in 4 days.
15:11 <bhaak> why do the job of a machine?
15:11 <stennowork> what do you mean 'will be ignored'
15:11 <stennowork> i am a client
15:11 <stennowork> i want to get data from the backend
15:12 <stennowork> in order to interpret that data, i read the docs
15:12 <bhaak> lol
15:12 <bhaak> that's not how it usually happens
15:12 <stennowork> when i talk to api's thats only what i do
15:12 <bhaak> usually, you do the call and look what comes back. if it looks vaguely okay, you just assume that it always does
15:12 <stennowork> i look at the api, i figure out what i have to send, and then i check the response
15:13 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Pri-Hum-Mal-Law), 374 points, 694 turns, killed by a gnome lord
15:13 <bhaak> exactly. you check the response. you don't go to the api doc and check what the response can be (if it documented at all)
15:13 <stennowork> well of course i also check the api 
15:13 <stennowork> i check the api first
15:13 <stennowork> api doc first*
15:14 <bhaak> and then you aren't even sure if the doc is correct
15:14 <stennowork> and then expect that the stuff that is returned adheres to the docs
15:14 <bhaak> as the documentation is not necessarily in sync with the code
15:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) rejected atheism by offering a panther corpse on an altar of Moloch, on T:5749
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15:14 <stennowork> if you have decent auto-documentation that shouldn't be a problem
15:14 <stennowork> (as in, jsdoc, jdoc or w/e you are using for C++)
15:16 <stennowork> so you would metaprogram the api given the xml schema?
15:16 <bhaak> of course
15:16 <stennowork> building the actual repository or frontend interface during runtime
15:17 <stennowork> sounds like a hassle at best
15:18 <stennowork> gotta need some exceptional code hinting capabilities (id say it is impossible) to properly code wit htath
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15:20 <stennowork> if you version your api you should not have any problems handling changes
15:22 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Anerag (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 3400 points, 4724 turns, killed by a gray unicorn
15:24 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: khamul (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 6827 points, 5748 turns, killed by a wand
15:27 <bhaak> well, there's a difference between "you shouldn't" and "you can't"
15:27 <stennowork> sorry, i meant 'you cant'
15:27 <stennowork> i don't understand how you can program a frontend when you only know the data schema during runtime
15:28 <bhaak> if you change the API on the server without telling the client, the client will not find out until something blows up. with a schema based approach, it will know immediately
15:28 <bhaak> it's very similar between dynamic types and static types
15:28 <stennowork> if you change the api on the server, and push the version, the client can still use the old api
15:28 <stennowork> and decide to switch to the new api once they've adjusted to the changes
15:29 <stennowork> wait - so you mean that a schema is only for verification?
15:29 <stennowork> i can agree wit hthat
15:29 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought
15:30 <stennowork> i thought you'd metaprogram your actual entities on the frontend given the xml schema during runtime
15:30 <stennowork> this makes a bit more sense now
15:30 <bhaak> you can do that, too. but you don't need to.
15:31 <bhaak> if you want, you can generate the classes on the fly.
15:31 <stennowork> anyway, with versioning, schema validation is not neccessary
15:31 <bhaak> not really.
15:31 <bhaak> there are bugs on the client and the server side :-)
15:32 <bhaak> imagine an api that should always send something.
15:32 <stennowork> yes
15:32 <bhaak> and for some input, it does send nothing
15:32 <stennowork> ok
15:32 <bhaak> without schema verification, only the client will notice.
15:33 <stennowork> not unlikely, yes
15:33 <bhaak> with schema verification, it will blow up on the server side (where the error happens)
15:34 <Croesus> [US] [D]: SkippitoFriskito (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 12448 points, 7586 turns, killed by a tiger
15:36 <stennowork> i have to admit that i was mainly considering the frontend here
15:37 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: thorsb (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 448 points, 2135 turns, killed by a gnome lord
15:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming an arch-lich, on T:6967
15:37 <stennowork> i assumed that the backend api was thoroughly tested
15:38 <bhaak> I think we are post dynamic types now. the pendulum will swing back.
15:39 <stennowork> ok so now we have a schema validation that makes sure that the backend fails early if something goes wrong
15:39 <bhaak> python got type annotation. ruby gets them for ruby 3.
15:39 <bhaak> it is much easier to reason over code if you have more info available.
15:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] hackedhead (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 793 points, T:1406, killed by a jackal, while frozen by a monster's gaze
15:40 <stennowork> yes, typescript is getting a lot of traction too
15:40 <hackedhead> i forgot how annoying vanilla floating eyes are
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15:40 <stennowork> but its still frowned upon by some people in the JS community
15:40 <hackedhead> also: shouldn't being invisible prevent an eye from looking at you? how does it meet your gaze?
15:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7350
15:40 <hackedhead> stennowork: it is? like who?
15:41 <stennowork> quite some people in ##javascript
15:41 <hackedhead> huh.
15:41 <stennowork> and those are the kind of people who develop V8 and sit in tc39
15:41 <hackedhead> tc39?
15:41 <stennowork> or the node devs
15:42 <stennowork> ecmascript committee
15:42 <hackedhead> ah.
15:42 <stennowork> which maintains the ES standard
15:42 <hackedhead> yeah
15:43 <stennowork> but the opinion is moving towards typescript
15:44 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought
15:44 <hackedhead> I like typescript
15:44 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought
15:44 <hackedhead> I need to learn more about python type hinting.
15:44 <stennowork> its a convenience
15:44 <stennowork> meh, python
15:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 23386 points, T:7663, killed by a gargoyle, while frozen by a monster's gaze
15:45 <stennowork> back in the days i thought that list comprehension was a killer feature of python - i changed my opinion
15:45 <hackedhead> okay.
15:45 <stennowork> from what i've seen, nowadays i think js is more powerful
15:45 <hackedhead> "more powerful" meaning what?
15:45 <stennowork> and the eventloop/coroutines of JS are amazing
15:46 <hackedhead> well, that's not JS though
15:46 <hackedhead> it's the node runtime.
15:46 <stennowork> no, eventloop is a thing of javascript
15:46 <bhaak> stennowork: javascript will go down very quickly once webassembly can replace it.
15:46 <stennowork> bhaak, webassembly will not replace javascript
15:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:56551
15:46 <stennowork> the idea of WASM is amazing
15:46 <stennowork> people are coding rust and transpiling to wasm
15:47 <stennowork> wasm cannot access the dom at all
15:47 <bhaak> stennowork: it will. it doesn't make sense for browser developers to have two different access points to the browser internals
15:47 <bhaak> but DOM access is planned
15:47 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: thorsb (Hea-Hum-Mal-Neu), 227 points, 525 turns, killed by a hobbit
15:47 <bhaak> javascript will at one point in time being reimplement on top of webassembly
15:48 <stennowork> hackedhead, https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/EventLoop
15:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Hdr-Pri Dro Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1457
15:48 <stennowork> bhaak, that might happen
15:48 <stennowork> but i doubt that it will
15:48 <bhaak> wanna bet? :-)
15:48 <stennowork> sure!
15:48 <stennowork> 23 zorkmids
15:49 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: khamul (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 1347 points, 2345 turns, killed by a giant spider
15:49 <stennowork> what timespan?
15:49 <stennowork> 2 years?
15:49 <stennowork> 5 years?
15:49 <hackedhead> http://longbets.org/predictions/
15:49 <bhaak> https://webassembly.org/docs/future-features/
15:50 <stennowork> derp the links to that issue tracker are borked
15:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Hdr-Pri Dro Mal Neu) was given the Cloak of the Unheld One, on T:2053
15:51 <bhaak> 5 years is probably a likely timeframe to be able to program the browser without any js needed.
15:51 <stennowork> https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc/blob/master/README.md
15:51 <stennowork> last updated 12 oct 2017
15:52 <stennowork> still wanna bet?
15:52 <stennowork> oh wait thats just the readme, sorry
15:53 <stennowork> ok
15:53 <bhaak> well, you can ask yourself.  why would you add something like webassembly, only to leave it at a half-finished state?
15:53 <stennowork> !remindme 5 years WASM is web ready
15:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Hdr-Pri Dro Mal Neu) was given Soulmirror, on T:2656
15:53 <stennowork> bhaak, i don't think that DOM access is a feature which is neccessary for wasm
15:53 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 408 points, T:1511, killed by a giant bat
15:54 <stennowork> because i never see wasm as a complete replacement for js
15:54 <stennowork> and _technically_
15:54 <stennowork> you just have to implement the DOM
15:54 <stennowork> in whatever language you like
15:54 <bhaak> if you only want to access the canvas, then that's true
15:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:57118
15:54 <stennowork> if there is a popular browser, which suddenly allows executing ruby instead of JS, that would just work
15:55 <bhaak> but then only with ruby.
15:55 <stennowork> yeah
15:55 <bhaak> think about webassembly modules that can be written in different languages.
15:55 <stennowork> yes
15:55 <bhaak> the end goal of webassembly is to make the browser as fast as possible.
15:56 <stennowork> oh?
15:56 <bhaak> V8 did drive JS as far as it was possible and then they said, we need something that is better designed for what we want to do.
15:57 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 2033 points, 4878 turns, killed by a soldier ant
15:57 <stennowork> js has a lot of implementation details, especially regarding memory managemetn
15:57 <bhaak> if you have a porsche, you don't let it stand in the rain while you put your bike into the garage :-)
15:57 <stennowork> gc itself is not specced at all
15:58 <bhaak> and webassembly is currently even slowed down because of js having the exclusive access to several browser APIs
15:58 <bhaak> that exclusivity will fall
15:58 <bhaak> and when that happens, JS loses the only advantage that made it the most popular language
15:59 <stennowork> i see the event loop and its integration as _the_ killer feature for JS as a 'web language'
16:00 <stennowork> i think v8 also struggled to implement stuff like TCO which according to the devs 'will probably never happen'
16:00 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 142 points, 895 turns, killed by a little dog
16:00 <stennowork> webkit has TCO tho as per specs
16:00 <stennowork> ES specs*
16:01 <Croesus> [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 1496 points, 3005 turns, killed by a wand
16:01 <bhaak> hmm? why is that difficult?
16:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Hdr-Pri Dro Mal Neu) was given the Atma Weapon, on T:4350
16:03 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: wvc (Ran-Orc-Mal-Cha), 822 points, 2318 turns, killed by a dwarf
16:04 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Anerag (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 2125 points, 2076 turns, killed by an Elvenking
16:05 <bhaak> https://v8.dev/blog/modern-javascript#proper-tail-calls
16:06 <bhaak> hmm, doesn't look like technical reasons?
16:07 <Croesus> [US] [A]: aosdict (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 3101286 points, 35903 turns, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/a/aosdict/tnnt/dumplog/1572609634.tnnt.html
16:07 <stennowork> sounds like a cheap excuse tbh :v
16:07 -!- merleke has joined #hardfought
16:07 <stennowork> but yeah it seems that i was wrong
16:08 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 67779 points, 6677 turns, killed by a soldier
16:08 <stennowork> in that its not a technical reason
16:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] hackedhead (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 289 points, T:687, killed by a dart
16:09 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 204 points, 323 turns, killed by a water moccasin
16:12 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 290 points, T:1036, killed by a hobbit, while sleeping
16:12 <stennowork> bhaak, don't get me wrong - i am all for WASM but i doubt that it was created in the intent of completely replacing JS
16:12 <alex___> we could always hope
16:13 <bhaak> likewise, JS wasn't created to build large scale applications within the browser :-}
16:13 <alex___> or to be used in the backend *shudders*
16:14 <bhaak> or you can look at it this way. by building a well designed VM within the browser, they are - intentionally or not - building a base layer on which everything can be build.
16:14 <alex___> but we already have that
16:14 <bhaak> what will happen if all the optimization efforts go to that layer and js doesn't advance much anymore?
16:14 <alex___> its called an operating system and it's been around for a while now
16:15 <alex___> https://josephg.com/blog/electron-is-flash-for-the-desktop/
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16:16 <stennowork> electron sucks ass
16:18 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Anerag (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 251 points, 900 turns, killed by a giant rat
16:19 <{Demo}> I'm writing some java today so that other people have to deal with it
16:19 <stennowork> haha
16:19 <{Demo}> I was pissing at a McDonald's last night and the wall pattern made me want to write some java
16:19 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 17601 points, 8377 turns, burned by molten lava
16:20 <stennowork> my friend pissed at a wall at mcdonalds but only later found out that it was a one-way mirror
16:20 <stennowork> got arrested
16:20 <{Demo}> what the fuck
16:20 <{Demo}> why do they have a one way mirror into the bathroom
16:20 <stennowork> it was not in the bathroom
16:21 <{Demo}> ah
16:21 <stennowork> it was an outer wall
16:21 <{Demo}> makes sense now
16:21 <stennowork> and like people were sitting inside and eating
16:21 <alex___> why did he choose to piss at a mirror anyway
16:21 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu) had Vorpal Blade bestowed upon him by The Lady, on T:1165
16:21 <stennowork> punk
16:22 <stennowork> didn't give a fuck
16:22 <Croesus> [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 33 points, 179 turns, killed by contaminated water
16:22 <alex___> how quick were the cops to get him anyway
16:22 <stennowork> it was at a train station
16:22 <alex___> so they got there by train?
16:22 <stennowork> there were police at the train station
16:22 <alex___> lucky that they didnt have more important matters to tend to
16:23 <stennowork> they usually don't
16:23 <stennowork> they just stand aroudn and protect us from the terrorists i gues
16:23 <stennowork> s
16:23 <alex___> and the pissers
16:23 <stennowork> assuming there are no terrorists to protect against around, yeah
16:24 <alex___> what would they do against terrorists though
16:24 <stennowork> idk
16:24 <stennowork> he got sued for something that was called 'grober unfug' back then
16:25 <{Demo}> unleash the pissers on them
16:25 <stennowork> which is something so hilarious that it cannot even be translated
16:25 <{Demo}> there's a reason they are collecting all the pissers
16:25 <stennowork> he still has the letter hanging in his room
16:25 <{Demo}> so they have an army to use against terror attacks
16:25 <stennowork> makes sense
16:25 <stennowork> i mean having someone pee on them is utterly repulsive for most people
16:26 <alex___> the range isnt that great though
16:26 <stennowork> should scare off the terrorists
16:26 <alex___> best used in ambush
16:26 <stennowork> good point
16:27 <alex___> what year was this anyway
16:27 <alex___> i never really connected germany and terrorism much
16:27 <stennowork> that was quite some time ago
16:28 <alex___> post or pre 2000s?
16:28 <stennowork> mustve been shortly after 2000
16:29 <stennowork> well you can't underestimate the effect of 9/11 on the western world
16:29 <alex___> there was some "terrorist" at a local train station here a while ago
16:30 <alex___> dont know what he was doing or planning to do
16:30 <alex___> cops shot him in the leg and took him in
16:30 <stennowork> unlike the amis, we didn't really fuck up the middle east 
16:30 <stennowork> so idk why germany should be a target of terrorist
16:30 <alex___> i suppose one shouldnt expect too much rationality from terrorists
16:31 <stennowork> true
16:32 <ais523_> in the UK, the trains have their own police force (to avoid jurisdictional issues; it's quite common for trains to cross jurisdictions quickly and repeatedly, so a police force that could legally operate on any train without worrying about where it was is a helpful thing to have)
16:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 44 points, T:98, killed by a fox, while praying
16:33 <ais523_> that would explain why police are often posted at train stations
16:33 <alex___> isnt a national police force easier
16:34 <ais523_> here, national police forces are only involved with national-scale crimes
16:34 <ais523_> I'm not sure if there's a particular reason for that
16:34 <stennowork> here in germany, the federal police 'bundespolizei' is tasked with protecting the train stations
16:35 <alex___> in sweden we just have the police. no complications
16:35 <Pinkbeast> I am not at all convinced by this supposed rationale for the British Transport Police
16:36 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: saso (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 140 points, 600 turns, killed by a boulder
16:36 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [evil] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:3217
16:36 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [evil] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1584 points, T:3217, killed by an ape
16:41 <Muad> the transport police are easier to hire.. they can train on the job!
16:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Baalzebub, on T:59186
16:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 424 points, T:1414, killed by a giant ant
16:42 <Croesus> [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 746 points, 1989 turns, killed by a gnome
16:43 <Croesus> [US] [D]: SkippitoFriskito (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 103 points, 281 turns, killed by a small mimic
16:49 <stennowork> Muad, ba-dum tsh
16:50 <Croesus> [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1876 points, 5040 turns, killed by a vampire bat
16:54 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Anerag (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 2199 points, 2329 turns, killed by a giant bat
16:54 <Croesus> [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 775 points, 1500 turns, killed by a crossbow bolt
16:59 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:4845
17:00 <Muad> Oh, I had a wand explode on engrave-ID. Never had that happen before.
17:00 <Muad> Cursed, 1/121 chance, is it?
17:00 <stennowork> didn't even know that was possible
17:00 <stennowork> i thought that engrave-zapping was a safe way to use a wand
17:01 <ais523_> so did I; maybe that got nerfed at some point?
17:01 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Kame (Mon-Hum-Fem-Neu), 700 points, 492 turns, killed by a crossbow bolt
17:04 <stennowork> bhaak, regarding large scale web apps in the frontend, the trend is now going towards serverside rendering
17:05 -!- stenno\proc has joined #hardfought
17:07 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Rog-Orc-Mal-Cha), 126 points, 244 turns, killed by a dwarf
17:08 <aosdict> ais523_: yeah a 3.6 change iirc
17:09 <ais523_> I'm not surprised; it probably goes against the spirit of the ID game to have a 100% safe ID method that works even on cursed wands
17:09 <ais523_> there's an argument that "engrave with wands to ID them" is way too easy/mechanical as it is
17:09 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 855 points, 2432 turns, killed by a kitten, while praying
17:09 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Arc-Dwa-Mal-Law), 440 points, 234 turns, killed by an iguana
17:09 <ais523_> (if fixing that were desirable, you could make it so that engraving with a /oW wasted the wish; but I think there's some argument as to whether or not it is desirable to fix it
17:09 <ais523_> )
17:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] hackedhead (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 400 points, T:1065, killed by a gnome
17:11 <bug_sniper> epi: cursed wands can occasionally fire out the back, shooting you instead of the target
17:11 <hackedhead> i'm pretty sure that's always been a thing
17:11 <hackedhead> RE: cursed wands blowing up on engraving
17:11 <hackedhead> but it
17:12 <hackedhead> but it's an overall small risk for the major payoff of getting the ID of the wand
17:12 <stennowork> i think the wow article still has a strategy advice of engraving instead of zapping
17:12 <aosdict> hackedhead: I think it was definitely 3.4 strategy to engrave-test every wand in case it was cursed wishing
17:12 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 94 points, 255 turns, killed by Mr. Boyabai; the shopkeeper
17:12 <stennowork> Engrave with it instead of zapping because then a cursed wand cannot explode.
17:12 <stennowork> ^ from the wow article
17:12 <hackedhead> oh interesting.
17:12 <aosdict> (you still get a cursed wish, but a cursed wish is better than BOOM)
17:13 <stennowork> you don't get a cursed wish
17:13 <stennowork> you get a cursed wish with negative luck
17:13 <ais523_> there's no such thing as a cursed wish, I think?
17:13 <hackedhead> I thought it was because the engraving provided additional info about the ID of the wand
17:13 <ais523_> only a negative luck wish
17:13 <stennowork> ^
17:13 <bug_sniper> there's the cursed wish idea in slex that forcewields a random evil artifact to you
17:13 <hackedhead> forcew[i]elds
17:14 <bug_sniper> force equips
17:14 <aosdict> force push! force lightning!
17:14 <LarienTelrunya> use the force luke!
17:14 <hackedhead> KAAAAA MAAAAAEEEEE ----- ...
17:14 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Mon-Hum-Fem-Cha), 246 points, 447 turns, killed by a boulder
17:15 <hackedhead> now I want to name a character 'boulder' just to read 'boulder, killed by a gnome'
17:16 <hackedhead> or 'boulder, killed by falling into a pit'
17:16 <ais523_> the crga would rather mess with that
17:16 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: git, let alone github, didn't exist when SourceForge was still important.
17:16 <ais523_> except possibly on the tombstone in bones?
17:16 <hackedhead> ais523_: it'd still be funny to me. :shrug:
17:17 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: when someone wanted me to use sf for slex, git definitely existed
17:17 <hackedhead> jonadab: backlog much?
17:17 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 343 points, 1383 turns, killed by a garter snake, while fainted from lack of food
17:17 <stennowork> before there was git, we basically had hg, svn and cvs
17:17 <jonadab> hackedhead: Occasionally.
17:17 <hackedhead> i thought hg was after git?
17:17 <ais523_> in another channel I'm in, most of the regulars logread and have a tendency to respond to old messages from logs with simple pings (relying on the other person to logread them if offline)
17:17 <jonadab> Mercurial and git are same generation.
17:17 <ais523_> IIRC hg and git were both created as a response to the same incident
17:17 <jonadab> Sourceforge was CVS generation.
17:18 <hackedhead> ais523_: og interesting, what indicent?
17:18 <stennowork> linus said in his presentation that mercurial was the least bad vcs
17:18 <ais523_> so work would have started at almost the same time, I'm not sure which produced a viable prodcut first
17:18 <hackedhead> something with BitKeeper and the LK?
17:18 <ais523_> hackedhead: the Linux kernel used to use a proprietary VCS
17:18 <hackedhead> so yes. kk
17:18 <jonadab> Doubtless something related to BK, yes.
17:18 <stennowork> mercurial: Initial release date: April 19, 2005
17:18 <stennowork> git Initial release: 7 April 2005; 14 years ago
17:18 <hackedhead> git was '06, iirc?
17:18 <stennowork> i stand corrected
17:18 <ais523_> some Linux devs reverse-engineered some of its internals in order to work around some issues with it, and the BitKeeper devs got annoyed
17:19 <hackedhead> loooool
17:19 <ais523_> so Linux needed to migrate to something else in a hurry
17:19 <hackedhead> tight competition
17:19 <stennowork> 12 days
17:19 <FIQ> ais523_: ok so the reason I actually mentioned those things to you in !tells that I completely forgot about
17:19 <FIQ> was, how do I decipher save diffs?
17:19 <ais523_> I can't remember, but it's probably fairly simple
17:19 <hackedhead> does the nethack codebase have any testing?
17:19 <FIQ> "I can't remember" rip
17:19 <ais523_> it might just be copy/edit/seek commands
17:19 <FIQ> maybe I should just port dynahack to the fh codebase
17:20 <FIQ> that's what I've been considering doing
17:20 <ais523_> I have a document on how 4.3save works
17:20 <ais523_> it's possible that the 4.2save diff format is documented there
17:20 <ais523_> because I know I documented multiple diff formats in it
17:20 <FIQ> 4.2 has a sort of prototype version of the desync detector
17:20 <ais523_> hackedhead: yes, although it's mostly fuzzing rather than input/output testing
17:21 <jonadab> hackedhead: I think several people have played the game through from beginning to end :-)
17:21 <FIQ> so I figured you actually used the same diff format, merely rewrote all the code
17:21 <FIQ> maybe not
17:21 <ais523_> it's either going to be the same as the earliest versions of 4.3save, or if not, very similar
17:21 <ais523_> my guess is that the source code for 4.2save's diff decoder will be fairly easy to read
17:21 <FIQ> mhm
17:22 <FIQ> well I remember giving up on the 4.3 save code a while back
17:22 <ais523_> 4.3save's diff decoder got a lot more complex over time
17:22 <FIQ> and instead ended up using the existing functions in ways they weren't exactly designed when I refactored replay mode
17:22 <ais523_> but that's documented
17:22 <FIQ> it mostly worked, but... buggy and lead to kinda bad code
17:22 <aosdict> hackedhead: unnethack actually does unit tests
17:22 <ais523_> I think refactoring the support functions is probably harder than understanding the format
17:22 <FIQ> and I'm not sure if I want to do that again and make everything just worse :P
17:23 <jonadab> Sometimes you have to make things worse before you can make them better.
17:24 <FIQ> (i.e. fiqhack's replaymode code, while its approach fixes the problems I had with the vanilla one -- the awful performance -- it's rather buggy and unstable in its attempts to handle inconsistencies)
17:24 <FIQ> and the fact that 4.2save seems to, overall, have made 4.1save worse stability-wise, leads me to not really want to tinker with it much
17:24 <FIQ> since I fear I'd only make everything worse
17:24 <ais523_> btw, is the line-wrapping code in NH4's/FIQHack's message window still working?
17:24 <FIQ> (4.2save is still an improvement, because 4.2save can actually be recovered -- if a 4.1save breaks, your save is completely domed)
17:25 <FIQ> I have yet to notice any oddities
17:25 <ais523_> this is something of a surprise
17:25 <ais523_> because it took so many attempts to get something workable there
17:25 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: asdf (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 222 points, 1029 turns, killed by a small mimic
17:25 <FIQ> heh
17:25 <ais523_> like, multiple people tried with multiple sets of code, and there were all sorts of bizarre failure modes
17:25 <ais523_> it's a very hard problem to solve in a general way
17:25 <Croesus> [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 548 points, 838 turns, killed by an arrow
17:25 <FIQ> I see
17:25 <ais523_> (I'm still confused about that time that a --More-- ended up being printed /vertically/, overlapping into the map)
17:26 <FIQ> lol
17:26 <FIQ> nice
17:26 <FIQ> the main problems with 4.2save is the save+load inconsistencies and that whenever a load doesn't work flawlessy (very rare considering the former), the failsafe code isn't all that robust
17:26 <FIQ> I'm fairly sure this is the root of the "options code in the middle of a save" problems
17:27 <FIQ> luxidream actually managed to reproduce that error on DynaHack last June
17:27 <ais523_> well there's a reason I rewrote 4.2save entirely rather than trying to incrementally fix it
17:27 <FIQ> I think that the most severe bugs actually is a result of the way the game reads the metadata
17:27 <FIQ> because something weird caused DynaHack to completely freak out for Luxidream
17:28 <FIQ> and it'd suddenly treat all saves as corrupted and write options in middle of saves
17:28 <FIQ> all of the saves, all at once
17:28 <FIQ> when loaded
17:28 -!- truculent has joined #hardfought
17:28 <ais523_> I think the fundamental problem is to do with tracking save metadata, as it's one of the few things that /isn't/ saved and restored and yet you need to make sure it's correct all the time
17:28 <ais523_> it's clearly a solvable problem, but it's the sort of thing that it's easy to get subtly wrong
17:30 -!- stenno\proc has joined #hardfought
17:31 <{Demo}> why can't we have xml based saves to make the sad people sadder
17:32 <ais523_> well, most of the evolution in NH4's save format has been trying to compress the saves better and better over time
17:32 <FIQ> ais523_: 4.3 just stores it at the top of the file
17:32 <hackedhead> all of these comments seem like things unit and integration tests would help
17:32 <ais523_> so that you can fit in the entire recording within a reasonable amoutn of disk space
17:32 <FIQ> presumably crashes will not update it properly, but
17:32 <FIQ> at least it's better than having to lowkey read all the saves
17:32 <FIQ> merely to list the info
17:32 <ais523_> FIQ: I don't mean the metadata for the save file itself, but the metadata to record, e.g., which save file is in use, where the file pointers are, whether we're currently in-game, etc.
17:33 <FIQ> ahh
17:33 <Croesus> [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 1162 points, 1200 turns, killed by a gnome lord
17:38 <aosdict> hackedhead: unit testing in 3.x is hard because there are just so many globals
17:39 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 7747 points, T:8428, killed by a leocrotta
17:42 <Croesus> [US] [D]: larry (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1312 points, 7484 turns, killed by a Woodland-elf
17:45 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Muad (Cav-Dwa-Mal-Law), 4045 points, 4514 turns, killed by a giant mimic
17:48 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 725 points, 2143 turns, killed by a baby crocodile
17:50 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought
17:55 <stenno\proc> i don't even really understand how you could properly unit test nethack coe
17:55 <bhaak> the biggest problem is actually hack.h
17:56 -!- hdf-guest-31 has joined #hardfought
17:57 <bhaak> everything is referenced through that
17:57 <hackedhead> aosdict: meaning that the design is poor, which we already knew, I guess
17:57 <bhaak> the c files are quite separated.
17:57 <hackedhead> stenno\proc: probably by refactoring it extensively.
17:58 <bhaak> look at that: https://github.com/UnNetHack/UnNetHack/blob/master/tests/options/mocks.h
17:59 <bhaak> everything that is in there is just to satisfy linking options.c as a single object
18:00 <Croesus> Current Day as of 2019-11-06 18:00 UTC: Games: 410, Asc: 10, Scum: 234. 960180 turns, 26823922 points. 13d 14:08 gametime. (40%Wiz), (45%Hum), (40%Neu), (64%Fem), 24d 05:59 remaining.
18:02 <ais523_> bhaak: I took gradual steps towards splitting the headers up a bit in NH4
18:02 <ais523_> although, arguably having everything in hack.h is helpful because of precompiled headers
18:02 <ais523_> I built HyperRogue a few days ago, it is much worse in this respect
18:03 <ais523_> it is a C++ program that consists of multiple source files, but they're all #included together into one big file, so the compiler only compiles the one file but it's masses and takes ages (and I had to increase the amount of physical memory it had access to from my default 1GB)
18:03 <Croesus> [US] [A]: LoneWolf (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 1197240 points, 26184 turns, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/LoneWolf/tnnt/dumplog/1572882421.tnnt.html
18:03 <Croesus> TOURNAMENT MILESTONE: 50 ascended games.
18:03 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 213 points, 1096 turns, killed by a dwarf
18:04 <bhaak> that's a trick they like to do a lot for opimization.
18:04 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: asdf (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 5831 points, 4714 turns, killed by a ghoul, while paralyzed by a monster
18:04 <bhaak> if everything is in one file, the compiler can optimize everything at once
18:04 <stenno\proc> bhaak: interesting
18:04 <ais523_> well, LTO achieves the same thing in a less silly way
18:05 <ais523_> because you're separating the lex/parse/basic code gen from the optimize
18:06 <Croesus> [US] [Q]: ToneHack (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 14066 points, 7136 turns, quit
18:08 <bhaak> hyperrogue is likely older than LTO
18:08 <ais523_> I've been considering writing a variant of it but the code style is really scary
18:09 <ais523_> atm I think it's confused as to whether it wants to be a tutorial on hyperbolic geometry or a computer game, I think those two sides of it would benefit from being more separate
18:09 <ais523_> (I think the hyperbolic geometry tutorial can be improved, but am more interested about the computer game side of things)
18:11 <Croesus> [US] [D]: SkippitoFriskito (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 13293 points, 8042 turns, killed by a white unicorn (and one other game not reported)
18:11 <Croesus> [US] [D]: truculent (Pri-Hum-Mal-Cha), 101960 points, 20964 turns, killed by a wizard called LoneWolf the Enchanter, while sleeping
18:14 <bubbles_nhww> I think for C++ it's also because template need to be visible at the point of instantiation, and to only have to parse headers once (which used to be/still is a large amount of the compile time)
18:14 <bubbles_nhww> re: unity builds ^
18:15 <ais523_> I'm not sure whether HyperRogue actually uses templates
18:15 <bubbles_nhww> Ah fair enough, the header speedup is a big thing (and the old-school LTO)
18:15 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 11431 points, 9120 turns, poisoned by a vampire bat
18:16 <ais523_> I'm not convinced I can be happy with a build system that uses even more memory than aimake :-P
18:16 <bubbles_nhww> Ninja!
18:16 <bubbles_nhww> LTO does churn it all at the end though
18:16 <bubbles_nhww> I think when I link a kernelcache on this machine it spikes to like 8gb
18:16 * bubbles_nhww checks
18:17 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Cav-Hum-Mal-Law), 1830 points, 2593 turns, killed by a Mordor orc
18:17 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Ran-Gno-Fem-Neu), 474 points, 2744 turns, killed by a wand
18:18 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Muad (Hea-Gno-Mal-Neu), 459 points, 1181 turns, killed by a rothe
18:18 <bubbles_nhww> Whatsapp is taking more memory than xcode :'(
18:21 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 107 points, 235 turns, killed by a large kobold
18:21 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Cav-Hum-Mal-Law), 190 points, 511 turns, killed by a gnome lord
18:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] hackedhead (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 748 points, T:1907, killed by a kitten
18:27 <bubbles_nhww> What do you think is acceptable as a build dependency? Python?
18:28 <ais523_> I used Perl for aimake; those are both good choices as they're likely to be installed on the computer in question already
18:29 <Croesus> [US] [D]: truculent (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 418 points, 1031 turns, killed by a gecko
18:29 <ais523_> Perl has a lot of useful dependencies installed along with it (including C compilers!), which made it something of a natural choice because I was familiar with it; maybe Python does too
18:29 <bubbles_nhww> I had to write a perl parser the other day
18:29 <ais523_> it's nice to be able to tell Windows users "just get Strawberry Perl and you'll have everything you need to compile NH4 already"
18:29 <ais523_> bubbles_nhww: you failed, Perl is theoretically impossible to parse
18:29 <bubbles_nhww> Didn't have to parse all perl constructs, but quite a few
18:29 <bubbles_nhww> Nah we have some "config files" at work that are just perl objects
18:30 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1090 points, 2150 turns, killed by a gnome mummy
18:30 <bubbles_nhww> json... "pon"? :hmm:
18:30 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought
18:30 <ais523_> fwiw, aimake uses a subset of Perl for its config file
18:30 <bubbles_nhww> I don't hate it
18:30 <ais523_> I parse it by using `Safe` to disable all but a small whitelist of Perl opcodes, and then parsing it using `eval`
18:30 <bubbles_nhww> But I needed to get the data into a different program so the easiest thing was to just write a parser by hand
18:30 <bubbles_nhww> I think there they do something with bless
18:31 <aosdict> I would pick python due to its being less opaque than perl to someone who doesn't know the language
18:32 <ais523_> Perl gives you huge scope to make your program as readable or as unreadable as you like
18:33 <ais523_> I'm very wary of significant whitespace, especially for people reading programs in unfamiliar languages; you're used to it not mattering, and it's easy to lose track of the indentation level when moving from one page to the next
18:34 <ais523_> it's not as bad if you're using an editor or viewer that has continuous scroll
18:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1490
18:34 <ais523_> but, e.g., Python in a printed book can be ambiguous due to it being unclear where the margin is
18:34 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 469 points, 1270 turns, killed by a werejackal
18:35 <aosdict> I don't think anyone's talking about printing out build system code here.
18:35 <ais523_> well, it depends on whether you scroll through it with the arrow keys or pgup/pgdn
18:36 <aosdict> I'm also rather looking forward to there being no such thing as printed code anymore (textbooks etc)
18:36 <ais523_> build system code in particular tends to be much more heavily nested than most code, because you have an incentive to fit everything into a single file
18:36 <ais523_> (so that you don't need a build system for your build system)
18:37 <ais523_> I guess most readable is the Ada/VHDL style in which the equivalent of a closing brace explicitly states what is being closed
18:38 <stenno\proc> LarienTelrunya: just got a mail that the butterfiles bug has been fixed
18:38 <stenno\proc> s/bug/typo/
18:40 <stenno\proc> i assume it will be in the public repo soon
18:41 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 176 points, 496 turns, killed by a water moccasin
18:42 <hackedhead> why does vanilla handle redrwaing after stashing things in bags so badly?
18:43 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: gargor (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 31 points, 407 turns, killed by a newt
18:45 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 906 points, 2293 turns, killed by a gnome
18:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] hackedhead (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 147 points, T:381, killed by a dwarf
18:46 <hackedhead> why do I feel like mines denizens hit harder in 363 than NH4?
18:46 <{Demo}> speed randomization?
18:46 <{Demo}> maybe they just hit more often?
18:48 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1369 points, 3332 turns, killed by an Uruk-hai
18:49 <Croesus> [US] [D]: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 198 points, 982 turns, killed by a gnome zombie (and one other game not reported)
18:52 <Croesus> [US] [D]: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 138 points, 801 turns, killed by a sewer rat
18:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Bar Hum Fem Cha), 83 points, T:477, killed by a large mimic
18:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Val Hum Fem Neu), 66 points, T:216, killed by a water moccasin
18:57 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Grouchy (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1926 points, 2655 turns, killed by a crossbow bolt
18:57 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought
18:58 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought
18:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ
18:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 759 points, T:1031, killed by a wererat
19:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Pri Hum Mal Cha), 319 points, T:837, killed by a large kobold
19:02 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
19:03 <Croesus> [US] [D]: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 1173 points, 2321 turns, killed by a water moccasin (and one other game not reported)
19:04 <bubbles_nhww> I
19:04 <bubbles_nhww> I am guessing typescript would not be an acceptable build dependency? \o/
19:06 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1097 points, 2442 turns, killed by an imp
19:06 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought
19:07 <stenno\proc> whats wrong with typescript?
19:07 <bubbles_nhww> Nothing, I quite like it
19:07 <stenno\proc> so then
19:07 <bubbles_nhww> But it's less standard installed than pythoin/perl
19:07 <stenno\proc> choose the thing you are comfortable with
19:08 <stenno\proc> you can just install typescript via node
19:08 <stenno\proc> so node is the only dependency here
19:08 <stenno\proc> npm
19:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 615 points, T:1007, killed by a crossbow bolt
19:10 <bubbles_nhww> Then I could write my data files in typescript which would be nice
19:10 <bubbles_nhww> Since typescript interfaces are effectively a schema
19:10 <stenno\proc> hm
19:11 <stenno\proc> that doesn't really sound like a good idea tbh
19:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 366 points, T:1102, killed by a large mimic
19:11 <stenno\proc> or depending on what you mean with 'data files'
19:11 <stenno\proc> like, monst.c data files?
19:12 <Muad> You kill the rock mole.  You see here 6.022*10^23 rocks.
19:12 <stenno\proc> because that data should be in json, or xml if it has to be
19:12 <bubbles_nhww> stenno\proc yeah ah did you miss the earlier thing?
19:13 <bubbles_nhww> And yes monst/items etc
19:13 <bubbles_nhww> https://i.imgur.com/emjsjdE.mp4 I made this
19:14 <stenno\proc> i am 'stennowork' btw
19:14 <bubbles_nhww> You think I should just load the xml at runtime?
19:14 <stenno\proc> just for clarification
19:14 <bubbles_nhww> Ahhh
19:14 <bubbles_nhww> It's hard enough with ais and aos :-\
19:14 <stenno\proc> hehe
19:14 <stenno\proc> if you just have data sets, they should just be serialized in some file
19:15 <stenno\proc> and not with those terrible macros that nethack uses
19:15 <stenno\proc> and json seem just fine for that, but i assume you'd rather use xml
19:15 <stenno\proc> i should have monst.c parsed to json lying around somewhere
19:15 -!- spontiff86 has joined #hardfought
19:19 -!- hdf-guest-42 has joined #hardfought
19:20 <stenno\proc> here is an excerpt from the monsters.txt tiles file parsed to json https://gist.github.com/stenno/b329d0690065c7e44788f7ef0766ef6b
19:20 <stenno\proc> (which i needed to do for nodehack)
19:21 <Croesus> [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 6712 points, 6978 turns, killed by a giant spider
19:22 <bubbles_nhww> (Y) thanks
19:26 <aosdict> bubbles_nhww: I've coopted ais's name and the 'xNetHack' name
19:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 349 points, T:1153, killed by a little dog
19:26 <aosdict> apparently
19:28 <{Demo}> could be worse
19:28 <{Demo}> you could have called your variant nethack 4 and yoinked that name
19:28 <{Demo}> poor dt
19:30 <bubbles_nhww> \o/
19:30 <bubbles_nhww> Do the DT hate everyone involved in nh4?
19:30 <aosdict> ais523 is *on* the devteam
19:31 <aosdict> so no, but I wouldn't expect that they'd release a 'nethack 4.0.0'
19:31 <bubbles_nhww> So he hates himself!?
19:33 <{Demo}> nethack4 is generally considered a good thing
19:34 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Grouchy (Ran-Orc-Fem-Cha), 322 points, 948 turns, killed by a sewer rat
19:35 <stenno\proc> by some
19:37 <bubbles_nhww> Does amy hate nh4 or nh3.6 more>
19:38 <bubbles_nhww> Also note when I say hate I don't mean hate
19:38 <bubbles_nhww> It can be anything from "mild dislike" to "utter disgust" and anywhere in between
19:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:61402
19:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:61403
19:39 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 31 points, 328 turns, killed by a fox (and one other game not reported)
19:42 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought
19:44 <Croesus> [EU] [E]: spontiff (Hea-Gno-Mal-Neu), 30664 points, 86719 turns, escaped
19:46 <stenno\proc> er
19:46 <stenno\proc> aw
19:46 <stenno\proc> spontiff: was that intended
19:46 <spontiff> yeah
19:47 <stenno\proc> ok
19:47 <spontiff> well, it was just a pointless game
19:47 <spontiff> also, I'd bump-killed a newt, drowned a long worm during the invocation, and generally messed up
19:47 <bubbles_nhww>  Why do you hate hurtning things?
19:47 <bubbles_nhww> Why can I not type?
19:48 <bubbles_nhww> Mysteries of the universe!
19:48 <aosdict> spontiff: minscore?
19:48 <stenno\proc> aw
19:48 <spontiff> yeah, was supposed to be
19:49 <spontiff> hurting things is fine, but hurting things fatally gives POINTS and POINTS are EVIL
19:49 <aosdict> try it in xnethack sometime, I fixed the sanctum depth thing
19:49 <spontiff> yay
19:52 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Graznop (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1587 points, 7332 turns, killed by a bolt of fire, while sleeping
19:52 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 4244 points, 3328 turns, killed by a pony
19:52 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 3285 points, 3310 turns, killed by a dwarf lord
19:55 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought
19:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ
19:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Orcus, on T:63220
20:00 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: deki (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 47080 points, 12588 turns, killed by a bolt of fire, while sleeping
20:03 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 30769 points, 8854 turns, petrified by a chickatrice
20:03 <Porkman> go team c!
20:05 <Porkman> how can you smash iron bars in vanilla?
20:05 <Porkman> force bolt aint working
20:08 <{Demo}> wield acid potion
20:09 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: spontiff (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1542 points, 1942 turns, killed by a bolt of fire
20:16 <Porkman> oooh
20:16 <Porkman> raisse bones
20:16 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: stenno (Pri-Hum-Fem-Law), 551 points, 1381 turns, killed by an imp
20:17 <Porkman> ?lastgame raisse
20:17 <Porkman> !lastgame raisse
20:17 <Beholder> Porkman: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/R/Raisse/nh343/dumplog/1530273039.nh343.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/R/Raisse/nethack/dumplog/1572553943.nh.html | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/R/Raisse/nh343/dumplog/1529988042.nh343.txt
20:18 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Grouchy (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 788 points, 2015 turns, killed by a rothe
20:18 <raisse> Porkman: it's definitely a wizard
20:18 <raisse> so any strange cloak will be MR
20:19 <Porkman> interestingly enough you had 2 cloaks
20:19 <Porkman> i mean, i am a wizard myself so i have a comr
20:20 <raisse> Porkman: the other one is probably protection
20:21 <Porkman> and you had two cats
20:21 <Porkman> hah
20:21 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2374 points, 3063 turns, killed by a wand
20:22 <Porkman> thanks for unholy water <3
20:23 <Porkman> hmmm
20:23 <Porkman> cursed genocide
20:24 <Porkman> does it still work to do a silver dragon boxing in?
20:24 <Porkman> standing on scare monster (E will vanish)
20:25 <stenno\proc> 150 turns into the mines, already fell into a poisoned spike trap and got hit by a poisoned arrow trap
20:25 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 511 points, 2292 turns, killed by a hobbit
20:27 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 4656 points, 2083 turns, killed by a bolt of fire
20:32 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh363] Vis (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 756 points, T:2449, killed by a gnome
20:33 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: stenno (Pri-Hum-Fem-Law), 2434 points, 2306 turns, killed by a soldier ant
20:33 <stenno\proc> yeah fuck this
20:33 <stenno\proc> worst rng
20:33 <stenno\proc> next time please with less team ant, less constant poison traps, and an actually useful minetown kthx
20:33 <stenno\proc> not fucking monkeytown or orctown
20:33 <stenno\proc> that would be nice
20:34 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 197 points, 283 turns, killed by an arrow
20:40 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 291 points, 2396 turns, killed by a black pudding
20:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] dolores (Wil Ang Fem Cha), 41331 points, T:8502, killed by a monster (eel-lizard)
20:47 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: spontiff (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 5421 points, 6030 turns, killed by a leocrotta
20:49 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1251 points, 1671 turns, killed by a gnome lord
20:53 <bubbles_nh> monkeytown :L@
20:53 <bubbles_nh> I got some decent bubblehack stuff done today, will implement my first item tomorrow!
20:55 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] bubbles (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 216 points, T:437, killed by a fox
20:57 <Porkman> uhh
20:57 <Porkman> leprechauns not dropping the stolen gold when they die
20:58 <Croesus> [US] [A]: iyarkonan (Arc-Hum-Mal-Law), 2003488 points, 39394 turns, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/i/iyarkonan/tnnt/dumplog/1572927176.tnnt.html
20:59 <Croesus> [Tr] iyarkonan now has Both Genders!
21:00 <Croesus> [US] [D]: LoneWolf (Arc-Hum-Fem-Neu), 364 points, 3732 turns, killed by a giant mimic
21:03 <Croesus> [US] [D]: phorbin (Mon-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1060005 points, 46957 turns, killed by a priest of Moloch (with the Amulet), while paralyzed by a monster (and 11 other games not reported)
21:03 <Croesus> [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 280 points, 578 turns, killed by a magic missile
21:04 <Porkman> why am I having such a hard time this game
21:05 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 10766 points, 5531 turns, killed by a bolt of fire
21:05 <Porkman> how bad is it to kill a coaligned unicorn?
21:06 <Porkman> heh -5 luck
21:09 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] bubbles (Bin Hlf Mal Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:5441
21:11 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: thorsb (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2865 points, 3738 turns, killed by a watch captain
21:12 <bubbles_nh> Ooh a bubbles bnoes
21:13 <bubbles_nh> bubbones
21:13 <{Demo}> bubbly
21:13 <bubbles_nh> worth getting javelin skill for this Xiuhcoatl.?
21:13 <{Demo}> uses spear
21:15 <bubbles_nh> sure, that one
21:15 <bubbles_nh> Hugning and mugninging
21:17 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] bubbles (Bin Hlf Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Premium Heart", on T:7466
21:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:4273
21:20 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1924 points, 7924 turns, killed by a hill orc
21:21 <Croesus> [US] [D]: iyarkonan (Ran-Elf-Mal-Cha), 345 points, 1260 turns, killed by a bolt of cold
21:28 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Anerag (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 40856 points, 22437 turns, poisoned by an orcish arrow
21:32 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Merlek (Arc-Hum-Fem-Neu), 491 points, 1278 turns, killed by a sewer rat, while frozen by a monster's gaze
21:35 <bubbles_nh> woo slow dig already
21:37 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Bar-Hum-Fem-Cha), 184 points, 918 turns, killed by an electric shock
21:38 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] bubbles (Bin Hlf Mal Non) was given the Pen of the Void, on T:10861
21:38 <bubbles_nh> hmm this is going suspiciously too well
21:39 <raisse> oh that happened to me and then there was a hill orc too many
21:43 <Croesus> [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3164 points, 5211 turns, killed by Ms. Wonotobo; the shopkeeper
21:45 <bubbles_nh> how can I trigger a tele trap when I have intrinsive mres?
21:47 <raisse> bubbles_nh:  ^t
21:47 <raisse> (control-t, that is)
21:47 <raisse> doesn't work on levelport traps
21:49 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought
21:50 <bubbles_nh> Three engagement rings:hmmm:
21:51 -!- towardsdawn has joined #hardfought
21:53 <bubbles_nh> lost a level but geno shoggoth!! <3
21:56 <bubbles_nh> !tell Chris_ANG Poly into a Retriever and I demon gated a friend in?
21:56 <Beholder> I'm on it, bubbles_nh.
21:56 <bubbles_nh> And losing mother just destroyed my cloak and suit :-`
21:58 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] bubbles (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 73211 points, T:13090, betrayed by a retriever
21:58 <bubbles_nh> what the actual cuss
21:58 <bubbles_nh> CHRIS
21:58 <bubbles_nh> !!!
21:59 <bubbles_nh> raisse: thanks re teleport! :-)
21:59 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1114 points, 3280 turns, killed by a fire ant
22:01 <bubbles_nh> I knew it was too good to be true
22:01 <bubbles_nh> Chris_ANG was probably reading and then decided to do me dirty
22:01 <Porkman> monsters in sokoban is a horrible idea
22:01 <jonathanhanes> YANI: If you are poly'd into a demon you have a chance to get demongated to somewhere nasty
22:02 <Porkman> DNH gets it right
22:02 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: Dins (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 78 points, 319 turns, killed by a boulder
22:02 <bubbles_nh> dnh does
22:02 <bubbles_nh> jonathanhanes: nice
22:02 <bubbles_nh> But retrievers are golems
22:03 <bubbles_nh> so I don't see how they can be demons
22:04 <Porkman> conflict with cockatrices around owns
22:06 <bubbles_nh> he has quit out of SHAME
22:10 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought
22:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ
22:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Kni Hum Fem Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:5172
22:15 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: thorsb (Mon-Hum-Mal-Law), 3432 points, 4299 turns, killed by an owlbear
22:17 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: spontiff (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 3538 points, 5045 turns, killed by a watch captain
22:19 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Kame (Mon-Hum-Fem-Neu), 83989 points, 13398 turns, killed by a raven
22:23 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 974 points, 1054 turns, killed by a gnome king
22:26 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 23940 points, 8230 turns, killed by an exploding wand
22:27 <Porkman> I found a bug
22:27 <Porkman> who do i report it to?
22:28 <Porkman> essentially: having autopickup on for scrolls, but specifying in the exceptions to not pick up anything named "scare", will not pick up the scroll but still degrades it
22:28 <stenno\proc> If you found a bug, use https://nethack.org/common/contact.html to report it - see also https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Bug
22:28 <stenno\proc> oh wow
22:33 <Porkman> stenno
22:33 <Porkman> watch me
22:33 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 2187 points, 4050 turns, killed by a rothe
22:33 <Porkman> this has to be the most insane way of gaining poison resistance
22:33 <stenno\proc> no i want to sleep
22:33 <Porkman> but then again i am insane
22:33 <stenno\proc> fine 
22:33 <stenno\proc> i will watch you shortly
22:33 <stenno\proc> but then i will sleep
22:34 <stenno\proc> which server?
22:34 <Porkman> this will only take two mins
22:34 <Porkman> HDF US
22:34 <stenno\proc> sec
22:34 <stenno\proc> watching
22:35 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 112 points, 622 turns, killed by a fox, while reading a book
22:35 <stenno\proc> nice ?oSM use
22:36 <stenno\proc> now to find the correct corpse..
22:36 <stenno\proc> eyy
22:36 <stenno\proc> can be dangerous
22:37 <Porkman> :)
22:37 <stenno\proc> as stacked corpses take the age of the oldest corpse
22:37 <stenno\proc> i like the ?oSM strat
22:37 <stenno\proc> wasn't aware that monsters wouldn't walk on them lol
22:37 <stenno\proc> so this is like activated E but better
22:37 <Porkman> now it's time for some foolishness!
22:37 <stenno\proc> ok 
22:37 <stenno\proc> but i will sleep now
22:38 <stenno\proc> good luck
22:39 <{Demo}> time to dine
22:39 <Porkman> i needed poison res caus theres orctown
22:40 <{Demo}> new food ration replacement: a demo cuisine
22:40 <Croesus> [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 7724 points, 6052 turns, killed by a blast of frost
22:40 <{Demo}> comes with mac and cheese, mac and cheese, a potion of booze, and a potion of orange juice
22:45 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1915 points, 2664 turns, killed by a soldier ant
22:47 <Porkman> !lastgame amateurhour
22:47 <Beholder> Porkman: No last game for amateurhour.
22:47 <Porkman> huh
22:47 <Porkman> i found bones from this guy
22:48 <Porkman> monk bones it looks like
22:48 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: saso (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 560 points, 3201 turns, killed by an acidic corpse (and 2 other games not reported)
22:52 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 75 points, 186 turns, killed by a jackal
22:53 <jonathanhanes> YANI: icebox of holding
22:57 <aosdict> it reduces the weight of any corpses stowed inside it but its own weight is still 900?
22:58 <aosdict> sold
22:59 <Croesus> [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 335 points, 1600 turns, killed by a homunculus, while sleeping
23:00 <Croesus> [R] Clan Kitten Lovers MEOW! advances to rank 5!
23:00 <Croesus> [R] Clan The Strong and the Bad advances to rank 11!
23:00 <Croesus> [R] Clan #pray advances to rank 6!
23:00 <Croesus> [R] Clan Destine advances to rank 7!
23:00 <Croesus> [R] Clan They All Float Down Here advances to rank 8!
23:00 <Croesus> [R] Clan It Explodes! advances to rank 17!
23:00 <Croesus> [R] New clan registered - Amateur Hour!
23:03 <Porkman> Just gimme magic chests and wallet of perseus, oh and shirt of shambhala
23:04 <Porkman> aaand there's another SDSM in the swap chest
23:05 <aosdict> what happened? did a clan delete itself?
23:05 <jonathanhanes> What do you mean?
23:06 <aosdict> all those rank changes seemingly from nowhere
23:07 <jonathanhanes> hmm
23:07 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: thorsb (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Cha), 3693 points, 3132 turns, killed by a dwarf lord
23:08 <aosdict> oh you know what it probably was
23:08 <Croesus> [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1129 points, 3198 turns, killed by a gnome
23:09 <jonathanhanes> Do tell
23:09 <aosdict> never mind
23:09 <aosdict> I was going to say: amateurhour registered their clan, and retroactively gained all the clan points from tnnt
23:10 <aosdict> but according to scoreboard amateurhour has played no tnnt games
23:11 <Croesus> [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 735 points, 780 turns, killed by a dwarvish spear
23:11 <Croesus> [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 361 points, 1487 turns, killed by an iguana
23:14 <Croesus> [US] [A]: hothraxxa (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 2799329 points, 54386 turns, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hothraxxa/tnnt/dumplog/1572889641.tnnt.html
23:14 <Croesus> [US] [D]: OneColdCanuck (Mon-Hum-Fem-Neu), 2548 points, 2632 turns, killed by a crossbow bolt
23:15 <Croesus> [Tr] hothraxxa now has Both Genders!
23:15 <Croesus> [R] Clan teamsplat advances to rank 3!
23:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Pri Dro Mal Neu), 26620 points, T:10075, killed by a dwarf
23:19 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: saso (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 281 points, 2321 turns, killed by an arrow
23:19 -!- jessek has joined #hardfought
23:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) was given Magicbane, on T:6291
23:29 -!- stenno\proc has joined #hardfought
23:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 33750 points, T:7553, killed by a horse
23:32 <Croesus> [US] [D]: Grouchy (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 4504 points, 6189 turns, killed by a bolt of fire, while sleeping off a magical draught
23:33 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought
23:33 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ
23:35 <Croesus> [EU] [D]: spontiff (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 8665 points, 6275 turns, killed by a Woodland-elf
23:36 <Porkman> I wonder why all the SDSM i dump into the swap chest get snatched up immediately :p
23:36 <{Demo}> hungry hungry hobos
23:37 <Porkman> dumped a green one too this tiem
23:37 <{Demo}> drop some blues in
23:41 <bubbles_nh> Wghat is in a {Demo} cuisine?
23:41 <Croesus> [US] [D]: jmcunx (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 540 points, 3062 turns, killed by an invisible rothe
23:42 <{Demo}> a lot of Mac and cheese and screwdrivers
23:42 <{Demo}> also it's an orange %
23:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 378 points, T:1016, killed by a bat
23:43 <bubbles_nh> I thought you liked linux
23:43 <bubbles_nh> why you have mac?
23:44 <rld> <@rikersan> fun fact I'm pretty sure dnh compiles better on mac than windows at this point
23:44 <rld> <@rikersan> considering it's developed on windows
23:44 <rld> <@rikersan> (at least dnao)
23:45 <bubbles_nh> i don't get windows
23:45 <bubbles_nh> As a dev platform
23:45 <bubbles_nh> for a roguelike
23:45 <bubbles_nh> I mean, at least use WSL
23:45 <bubbles_nh> So you can hav a not shit env
23:45 <bubbles_nh> But what would I know
23:49 <rld> <@rikersan> I mean I use mac so I'm on your side
23:50 <Croesus> [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1997 points, 4470 turns, killed by a raven
23:50 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought
23:51 <AntiVirus> The network at work is too slow for actual work
23:51 <AntiVirus> but, never too slow for tty
23:51 <AntiVirus> ;)
23:51 <{Demo}> I was trying to explain to my boss that I don't understand how bsd purists are capable of existing in the same universe as macos when mac os bothers me as much as it does and I'm soooooooo far from a bsd purist
23:52 <AntiVirus> well, it's a lot closer than the windows kernel wouldn't you say?
23:52 <AntiVirus> ;)
23:52 <AntiVirus> of course now Windows 10 has the linux subsytem...
23:52 <AntiVirus> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10
23:52 <Croesus> [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Neu), 357 points, 2001 turns, killed by an invisible hobbit
23:53 <AntiVirus> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvrqmq9A3tA
23:53 <AntiVirus> you can get a full and complete BASH shell on Win10 supported by Microsoft.
23:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 572 points, T:1102, killed by an acid blob
23:59 <Croesus> [US] [D]: tinklebear (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 44814 points, 22127 turns, killed by an invisible hallucinogen-distorted chameleon imitating a jabberwock
23:59 <aosdict> bubbles_nh: Never have a chat with Amy about her choice of operating system.
23:59 <bubbles_nh> AntiVirus: yeah that's what I meant by WSL
23:59 <bubbles_nh> aosdict: it's fun to wind her up :-)
23:59 <bubbles_nh> midly wind her up
23:59 <bubbles_nh> I wouldn't be mean