Food for Thought

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rekloose-[PUPPY]
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Food for Thought

Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Apr 27th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2007/05/2635198

Written by a current Army Officer. Interesting article, blames a lot of what's going down in what he sees is a "failure of generalship", mainly on the officer corps (he includes himself in this group). Long, but worthy read. Heard an interview with him today on NPR, he wasn't naming anyone in particular, just said it was the institution, as a whole, which was failing....

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Timmy
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Postby Timmy » Apr 27th, 2007 at 7:00 pm

Good read although I'm not sure what would have worked in Vietnam would work in Iraq. While Vietnam might have conformed to a new governemnt if the leaders were "removed", Iraq has too many faction that all want to be "king". I believe (and this is my opinion based on what I've read) that even if we established a stable government in Iraq the minute we pulled out the corruption would start all over again and in a few years we'd be looking at another assmaster in charge. I'm not willing to permanently commit our troops to being permanent baby-sitters.



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Postby WidowMaker » Apr 27th, 2007 at 8:08 pm

Why not Timmy, that is essentially what we have done with every other country we have existing military bases in. If we did succeed in building a stable government in Iraq, you can bet we would still have several bases there, to discourage any sort of wanna-be dictator thinking he can rise up and take over.
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Apr 27th, 2007 at 9:03 pm

Timmy - it's not so much that what would have worked in Vietnam would work in Iraq - it's more that the cause of the failure in Vietnam is (in his view) the cause of the failure in Iraq - a lack of vision on the part of the Army and an inability to adapt to a different style of combat.

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Postby Phoenix » Apr 28th, 2007 at 12:03 am

I don't see why Iraq has to be Iraq.... lets make it 3 or 4 different nations or however many different sects there are....

Iraq is now and always has been a nation that was created with way to many different groups in it, rarely does this work in the real world. We are trying to force a square box into a round hole, and unless you are the tech team for the Apollo missions that shit just don't work.
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Miracl3
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Postby Miracl3 » Apr 28th, 2007 at 1:12 am

Phoenix wrote:I don't see why Iraq has to be Iraq.... lets make it 3 or 4 different nations or however many different sects there are....

Iraq is now and always has been a nation that was created with way to many different groups in it, rarely does this work in the real world. We are trying to force a square box into a round hole, and unless you are the tech team for the Apollo missions that shit just don't work.
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ender*(gayless)
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Postby ender*(gayless) » Apr 28th, 2007 at 2:22 am

then you have another west bank....

you force people to move out of their geographic homes just because of a group they belong to, they get pissy, plus they have a neighbor they hate
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Postby Timmy » Apr 28th, 2007 at 2:41 am

WidowMaker wrote:Why not Timmy, that is essentially what we have done with every other country we have existing military bases in. If we did succeed in building a stable government in Iraq, you can bet we would still have several bases there, to discourage any sort of wanna-be dictator thinking he can rise up and take over.



Widow, are you serious? What country do we have a military base in that we are "controlling"? I can't believe you'd think that would work, we have tons of troops over there now and we can't even control one city, much less the entire country.


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Postby WidowMaker » Apr 30th, 2007 at 10:42 am

I didn't say "control". I said if Iraq stabilizes and its own government takes completely over, we would still have bases there, just like we do in Germany, Korea, etc. Don't you think that if some nutjob tried to rise up to overthrow the German government, we would use our bases there to help put the nutjob and his followers down?


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Postby Timmy » Apr 30th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

Our bases aren't all that big, they're more like staging points for our troops. I doubt they could do much more than put up a token resistance without immediate help from "home". Also who we might perceive as a nutjob isn't always perceived that way by the "natives", especially in the middle east where religeous fervor is the norm.

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Postby Jahiliyya » Apr 30th, 2007 at 2:38 pm

Timmy wrote:Our bases aren't all that big, they're more like staging points for our troops. I doubt they could do much more than put up a token resistance without immediate help from "home". Also who we might perceive as a nutjob isn't always perceived that way by the "natives", especially in the middle east where religeous fervor is the norm.

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Timmy, use your head. We don't care if the natives love the nutjob. If another Hitler rises up w/ the full support of that country we put him down.

It is much more important in my mind that we protect our own interests than the interests of the natives.

There is nothing inherently wrong w/ that view, it just means our neighbors are probably wary of us....and whoa! they are. Situation normal. That's what it means to be a superpower.
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Postby Timmy » Apr 30th, 2007 at 11:49 pm

And a full scale invasion is needed to "put down" a nutjob? what ever happened to key assassinations? Why have a secret service if we do everything blatantly in the open? Hell we coulda killed Saddam and pointed the finger at Iran, solve two problems with one bullet, Ronnie woulda done it....



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Postby Jeng » May 12th, 2007 at 4:52 pm

Timmy wrote:And a full scale invasion is needed to "put down" a nutjob? what ever happened to key assassinations? Why have a secret service if we do everything blatantly in the open? Hell we coulda killed Saddam and pointed the finger at Iran, solve two problems with one bullet, Ronnie woulda done it....



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From what I understand, we attempted to many times. At least the kill Saddam part, not the point finger at Iran part, though Syria would have made a better scapegoat at that time.
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