New PC (please comment)

Need some advice on what video card to buy? Wanna buy/sell/trade some equipment? This is the place to ask.

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Oreo
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Postby Oreo » Nov 8th, 2005 at 7:55 pm

Weird, I've started up the computer without a heatsink for a few seconds just to make sure I had the mobo and everything plugged in right, got to POST and everything, then shut it off without incident. But running without it normally, just plain stupid.

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carnage
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Postby carnage » Nov 8th, 2005 at 8:13 pm

Oreo wrote:Weird, I've started up the computer without a heatsink for a few seconds just to make sure I had the mobo and everything plugged in right, got to POST and everything, then shut it off without incident. But running without it normally, just plain stupid.


It depends on the processor, Oreo, but it is definitely not recommended for any period of time. AMD processors are worse for melting and studies have shown that even 1-2 seconds without a heatsink is enough to melt it. Still, Intel processors would also melt in fairly short (longer than AMD) order. A celeron processor would last longer than the Pentium class though.

Carn

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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Nov 8th, 2005 at 9:37 pm

I'm surprised someone hasn't created an integrated heat sink. Like buy the chip and build your own heatsink fan then fix them together as a permanent item. Don't know what material you would use, but I would think that it would be better in the long run especialy if you can get it sealed up metal on metal.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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DocNsane
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Postby DocNsane » Nov 8th, 2005 at 11:51 pm

Catalyst22 wrote:I'm surprised someone hasn't created an integrated heat sink. Like buy the chip and build your own heatsink fan then fix them together as a permanent item. Don't know what material you would use, but I would think that it would be better in the long run especialy if you can get it sealed up metal on metal.


Dell epoxies the heatsink to the CPU. (I can't even make up stuipd crap like that.) I've literaly ripped the socket from the PCB becuase the cpu was adhered to it.

Heatsinks are big blocks of metal
Big blocks of metal have a lot of mass
PCB is light fiber
Light fiber is weak

Force = mass x acceleration

As for the metal on metal thing, both amd and Intel use on dye heat spreaders (the actual chip is only about 1/4 of an inch square), which allows for heat dissapation to a larger area, such as the bottom of the heatsink. People lap heatsinks and heatspreaders to make them as smooth as possible, elminitating the amount of air between the two, providing better heat conductivity.

As for the thermal paste thing... It thermal paste is NOT A HEAT CONDUCTOR! It assists the thermal transfer by providing a more conductive path than air by filing in the air pockets between the two peices of metal, allowing the heatsink to draw more energy away. Two much paste will actualy hammper the heat transfer since it's not as efficent as metal touching metal. The best application is a razor thin layer which allows for the maximum metal contact with minimum air pockets.
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kilo
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Postby kilo » Nov 11th, 2005 at 12:28 am

sounds like the same system i just built and i love it

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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Nov 11th, 2005 at 1:27 am

If I get this job and it pays what I expect I am going to do an upgrade. I'm going to try to mill my heat sink and cpu. Anyone know what the best thermal compound is for permanently attaching a heat sink to a cpu? Don't tell me is that shity glue from Radio shack either. I've used that on PCB's and its a joke if the chip gets hot at all.

I'm thinking some kind of carbon based deal would transfer heat best.

I might have to try this.
http://www.emsdiasum.com/microscopy/pro ... ctive.aspx

Spectro Grade Carbon Adhesive Tabs
High Purity conductive carbon tabs for less interference signals. Available in 12mm Diameter.

77826-12 Spectro Grade Carbon Adhesive Tabs 120/pk 34.00
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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pyrox420
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Postby pyrox420 » Nov 11th, 2005 at 8:49 am

Cat if your doing anything like that i'd suggest running it by the guys at : http://www.overclockers.com/

Check out their forums. They have some smart people in there and they might be able to give you more input that us noobs. :)
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here". - Jayne

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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Nov 11th, 2005 at 11:25 am

Ah, I'm just talk right now. I'll have to wait and see if I get the job. My current job is enough to survive semi-comfortably without putting any money in the bank. So until a new job pops up I'm blowing wind.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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DocNsane
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Postby DocNsane » Nov 14th, 2005 at 10:08 pm

Catalyst22 wrote:I'm going to try to mill my heat sink and cpu. Anyone know what the best thermal compound is for permanently attaching a heat sink to a cpu?


DocNsane wrote:Dell epoxies the heatsink to the CPU. (I can't even make up stuipd crap like that.) I've literaly ripped the socket from the PCB becuase the cpu was adhered to it.
Image

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Jeng
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Postby Jeng » Nov 20th, 2005 at 4:34 am

Catalyst22 wrote:If I get this job and it pays what I expect I am going to do an upgrade. I'm going to try to mill my heat sink and cpu. Anyone know what the best thermal compound is for permanently attaching a heat sink to a cpu? Don't tell me is that shity glue from Radio shack either. I've used that on PCB's and its a joke if the chip gets hot at all.

I'm thinking some kind of carbon based deal would transfer heat best.

I might have to try this.
http://www.emsdiasum.com/microscopy/pro ... ctive.aspx

Spectro Grade Carbon Adhesive Tabs
High Purity conductive carbon tabs for less interference signals. Available in 12mm Diameter.

77826-12 Spectro Grade Carbon Adhesive Tabs 120/pk 34.00


Although diamond has the best thermal conductivity, thats cause its a gem, not because its carbon. Copper and silver give the best thermal conductivity, silver being the best. Arctic Silver has a silver based adhesive though.

Then again notice the warning at the top.
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silv ... hesive.htm

One thing I've wondered about is silver leafing a heatsink?

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DocNsane
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Postby DocNsane » Nov 21st, 2005 at 12:58 am

As for the thermal paste thing... It thermal paste is NOT A HEAT CONDUCTOR! It assists the thermal transfer by providing a more conductive path than air by filing in the air pockets between the two peices of metal, allowing the heatsink to draw more energy away. Two much paste will actualy hammper the heat transfer since it's not as efficent as metal touching metal. The best application is a razor thin layer which allows for the maximum metal contact with minimum air pockets.


Silver leafing will do nothing but add more air pockets between the mass of the heatsink and the cpu heat spreader.
Image

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Jeng
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Postby Jeng » Nov 21st, 2005 at 1:47 pm

Yea, would still be useing AS5 between the cpu and the heatsink, but for the outside of the heatsink itself?

Perhaps on a heatsink like the zalman fatality where its rather spread out so it would be easy to do.


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