asp.net

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Catalyst22
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asp.net

Postby Catalyst22 » Jun 28th, 2006 at 2:17 pm

Anyone have any experience with it? I was at Barnes and Noble today to pick up a book on Python, but saw a book on asp.net and got it instead.

So where does asp.net stand in the world of web development? Is it worth learning or should I have got the Python book? I know Zope/Plone are hot right now, but I'm looking for more the generic corporate environment programming and thought this might be what I need.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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sgarissta
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Re: asp.net

Postby sgarissta » Jun 28th, 2006 at 2:50 pm

Catalyst22 wrote:Anyone have any experience with it? I was at Barnes and Noble today to pick up a book on Python, but saw a book on asp.net and got it instead.

My day job is .NET development. It's got some things going for it, and some definite things going against it, it's all personal style.
So where does asp.net stand in the world of web development? Is it worth learning or should I have got the Python book? I know Zope/Plone are hot right now, but I'm looking for more the generic corporate environment programming and thought this might be what I need.


Zope/Plone have been big for custom CMS style stuff for several years now, and it is one hell of a well put together platform. But it's definitely not what I'd consider mainstream. ASP.NET is for many reasons, restricted to mostly mid sized corporate arena. If this is what you're wanting to get into, then I'd highly recommend it. Also, stay away from VB.NET and just learn it all in C#. It'll annoy you a bit at first, but C# is a pretty well thought out language, and gives you a fair bit more control than VB.

Python has a lot going for it, but as far as general use scripting languages, I'm personally stuck on Ruby at the moment. Definitely worth looking into if you need a general scripting language in your toolkit, but have an utter aversion to all that is perl.

Good luck, and shoot me a PM or something if you've got any specific questions.

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pyrox420
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Postby pyrox420 » Jun 28th, 2006 at 3:17 pm

The .net Framework is interesting... I do mainly asp/asp.net/.net developement at my dayjob. Let's just say because it's a windows framework you can do tons of things with it. Asp.net for web, forms for doing windows apps, you can do windows services, dll's, etc. etc.

Anyways...i'll just speak on asp.net for right now, specifically version 2.0. (don't you dare get into it with version 1.1... it will make your eyes bleed and your hair fall out.)

Asp.net is a fairly easy thing to learn especially if you are using the IDE; visual studio 2005 (or it's free alternative). There are lots of drag and drop extensions that are quite easy to use. It is a true object orientated language so everything code related is class based. If you know java, you can do asp.net Oo stuff. Version 2.0 has gotten to the point where i actually kinda like using a microsoft product (though i wont ever admit i like anything microsoft related).

one of the main things i love is that it's soooo easy to do fast prototyping. I can put together a full site/app in 1/3rd less time. Any data manipulation or display can be handled within the IDE and doesn't need you to write any code at all.

Now... when you want to do anything funky, or get away from anything prebuilt, or do something really really hard core, i would stay away from .net. It's good, but not that good. I've spent hours racking my brain on how to get around something i didn't want/like. Let's not mention that asp.net can get inefficient very quickly doing anything big. (if you want examples i have plenty...)

If you do not know php i would get a book on that first. (but any good web developer knows this already. :) )

Zope and Plone are 'simmering' right now, they are definitly not hot. Corporate custom CMS stuff love it... anywhere else it's almost non-existent. I would look up Ruby on Rails before zope/plone and pretty much anything else now that i think about it. ROR is definitly the "hot" language right now. It's definitly a quick way to develop. If i could use it more i would.

So here is my "what to learn and in what order" list for web developers.

1. HTML
2. Proper and compliant XHTML and CSS
3. PHP
4. Asp (very similiar to php so it should be a 15 minute learning curve at most)
5. Ruby on Rails - get introduced to a framework mindset
5. Asp.net - Getting used to microsofts idea of a framework.
6. Java/JSP - Really understanind the whole Object Orientated concept ideas.
7. Then go back and redo your PHP/Asp.net code in object orientated way. You'll thank me later.

I guess it also depends on what market your going for. If you want a corporate environment hit up asp.net or java/jsp. If you are in the small buisness market php and ROR are king. Each language has it's pro's and con's. Personally i'd take PHP over any other web scripting language out there.

Disclaimer: I've never used or think i want to learn python. I've got my programming knowledge and i'll learn python if i have too use it.
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here". - Jayne

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Burzum
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Postby Burzum » Jun 28th, 2006 at 3:19 pm

I use ASP.NET too. I love it! WinFX (AKA .net 3.0) will bring some major changes to the .NET world. It will also blur the lines between web programming and windows programming even more than it already is.

.NET will be around for a while and is VERY widely accepted. Good choice :)
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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Jun 28th, 2006 at 3:49 pm

good deal. I have been playing with PHP for years. I've never truely got into writting my own code due to time. After I picked up .net (about two hours ago) I have been able to build a basic site with login authentication and dynamic content. So far I'm realy digging it and slapping myself for not messing with it long ago.

PHP I'll come back to, but for now I think I'm learning at a faster clip using asp.net and vwd.

Thanx for all the input guys. I'm stoked about using this.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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sgarissta
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Postby sgarissta » Jun 28th, 2006 at 4:03 pm

Catalyst22 wrote:good deal. I have been playing with PHP for years. I've never truely got into writting my own code due to time. After I picked up .net (about two hours ago) I have been able to build a basic site with login authentication and dynamic content. So far I'm realy digging it and slapping myself for not messing with it long ago.

PHP I'll come back to, but for now I think I'm learning at a faster clip using asp.net and vwd.

Thanx for all the input guys. I'm stoked about using this.


One important thing to remember about .NET and Java is that you can do a lot of things just with the drag/drop generated code. But if you don't understand at least the basics of what that code is doing, when you run into a problem, edge case, or performance issue, it can be downright impossible to solve. Just remember to read through the generated mess periodically to see how it's doing things. (Side note, thanks to the partial class idea this can be nearly impossible)

And as pyrox mentioned, RoR is a really slick setup as well. If you just want a quick setup look for "Instant Rails", which is a prebuilt package of ruby, rails, apache, and mysql, and a little manager for starting/configuring it all. It's a great and quick way to get started in Rails. (disclaimer, I'm a developer for the Instant Rails project)

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rekloose-[PUPPY]
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Jul 1st, 2006 at 10:24 am

perl ftw! :D

though i haven't used it in in maybe two years. PHP is much easier to use and better supported ...

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pyrox420
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Postby pyrox420 » Jul 1st, 2006 at 10:26 am

Perl... now that is a fucked up language. :)
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here". - Jayne

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rekloose-[PUPPY]
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Jul 1st, 2006 at 10:33 am

seriously? it was my first programming language ... it's far more powerful than PHP, but has a much steeper learning curve. I'm glad PHP implemented Perl regular expressions, though there are some things from PERL I absolutely miss in PHP. PHP does make it easier though.

use strict; <---- FTW!

:D

if you ever want to learn an obfuscated language, try MATLAB. Based on FORTRAN. Used by engineers. It's like it lacks every modern OOP programming concept. Bah.

But it does make pretty 3-d graphs and is UBER-teh-powerful for any number of engineering disciplines (Mathematica and Maple work better for Math & Physics).

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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Jul 1st, 2006 at 12:42 pm

rekloose-[PUPPY] wrote:seriously? it was my first programming language ... it's far more powerful than PHP, but has a much steeper learning curve. I'm glad PHP implemented Perl regular expressions, though there are some things from PERL I absolutely miss in PHP. PHP does make it easier though.

use strict; <---- FTW!

:D

if you ever want to learn an obfuscated language, try MATLAB. Based on FORTRAN. Used by engineers. It's like it lacks every modern OOP programming concept. Bah.

But it does make pretty 3-d graphs and is UBER-teh-powerful for any number of engineering disciplines (Mathematica and Maple work better for Math & Physics).


I helped build a 500 server MATLAB cluster at Williams Energy as part of a joint project between the University of Oklahoma Meteorology Dept. and WEMT. When I say "I helped build" I mean, I installed the racks/servers and OS, but thats about it. It was pretty cool tho. We were severely disapointed in the performance under winders so we loaded Linux and the thing just fucking owned Winders ass.

The better you can predict weather patterns, the better you can predict power flow so the better edge you have over other energy marketers. Pretty interesting stuff.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€


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