fallout 3

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fallout 3

Postby Timmy » Oct 29th, 2008 at 9:13 pm

So far its pretty good, and not near as much a departure from the previous two as fanboi's were whining about.

No traits at creation, this was a bummer, I used to make my characters AROUND the trait/s I picked. No more Gifted or Skilled, or other traits. The trade off is you get perks at every level, not every 3 (or 4 if you took gifted in F1&2). You need em, the game can be every bit as unforgiving as its predecessors, none of Oblivions lame ass monster levelling crap.

My biggest beef is the repair system and ammo. To fix an item (ie upgrade its condition) you need another of the same item, this forces you to carry around multiples of every weapon you use, and limits the use of uncommon weapons. While I don't mind the wear, the fact you have to carry tons of weapons to be ready to fix is lame, why not some lighter raw resource material? Critters are tough, most take at least 4 shots or more to drop, and this is in the early game, you run out of ammo pretty quick and use pretty much every weapon you have that uses different ammo (nothing like carrying 20 guns ala Mad Max Thunderdome). My first two gun users pretty much blew through all the ammo I could find so I ended up making an unarmed specialist. So far he's worked well, although its trickier than sitting back and capping things in the head.

I'd advise people picking this one up to use both ranged and melee attacks, meleeing whenever prudent to conserve ammo when you need it (like against fuggin fire ants......).


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Postby Timmy » Oct 29th, 2008 at 9:16 pm

Oh and use the VATS as often as you can, it saves a ton on ammo, and almost always gives better results than playing like a FPS.



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Postby Best_predator » Oct 30th, 2008 at 2:56 am

The RPG part is so different now. I dunno how to build my sniper now :P. In first 2 games you weren't as good if you develop more than 1 offense type. I don't even know where I wanna go with this now.
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Postby Timmy » Oct 30th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

After adding another 5 hours to my play time my rating of the game is steadily falling. I think all the people giving 10's played the game for 30 minutes then rushed to review. The beginning is pretty nice, a sort of story of your life, once you leave the vault you've pretty much entered Elder Scrolls:Fallout. At first you don't notice as the area around the starting vault is fairy deep, but then you hit huge expanses of nothing. You have the same teleport travel option as oblivion so once you find spots of interest you can "warp" to them, thus avoiding the lame walk more than once.

Skills are broken into the same very easy, easy, average, hard, very hard levels like Oblivion, but now you can't even make the "mini-game" attempt without the appropriate skill. At least the lockpicking is better than Oblivions, but the hacking mini game is borderline retarded, at the easy level you play mastermind with a 6 letter word with 4 chances to guess it out of say 20+ words, if you don't hit a good word to start yer pretty much relying on luck, oh and the description of the skill basically lies to you, yayaya! Go save and restart 20 times, oh the fun!

The "local" map is useless in all but a few instances, inside a building you check the local map and all you see is green and black splotches...... Makes exploring real annoying, AND the best part is that Bethesda brought the worst aspect of Oblivion to Fallout 3, HUGE repetetive areas with lots of critters and meager rewards. Its loads of fun spending hours exploring huge caves, wasting ammo/weapons/armor on the critters to find some scrap metal and a kids toys......

Stealth is much like Oblivion, basically useless until maxxed out and buffed up, at 60 stealth I still can't really sneak up on anything. Stealth does have its use though, by being in stealth mode you are alerted to critters than have a chance of spotting you, very useful since half the time you don't seem to spot enemies very well. I get the caution alert and know to spend more energy looking for the enemy.

Enemies follow the FPS rule and not the RPG rule unlike the Elder Scrolls games, so don't expect an enemy to ever run out of ammo, but once killed will have 2-10 bullets....

The game is playable, the NPC's are all pretty well done and interesting, but the vast open nothing and huge tunnel zones make the game drag ass like Oblivion instead of being fun to explore.

AI is mixed, enemies will grenade their buddies and shoot em in the back trying to get to you, different mobs will fight each other Raiders vs Super Mutants is common. I've only encountered one bit of FPS cheese, a Super Mutant with a missile launcher on a balcony of a building with no access for you. I got lucky with a sniper rifle and crippled his arm making him drop the launcer.

the VATS system is great for shooting, lets you do some nasty stuff to enemies, although crippling the head doesn't seem to have any affect on mobs (unlike if you suffer the same fate). VATS for melee combat is pretty much only to keep a target still as mobs in melee will run totally chaotically (while hitting you of course) so melee is very much like Oblivion, lots of flailing.

Whew I'm rambling, no one gonna read this far, heheheh.

While there is no listed difference in damage types (all weapons just do damage) there does seem to be a modifier of some sort, I frequently found the .32 revolver to hit for more damage than the 10mm pistol despite its listed damage being less.


I'd give this one a 6 maybe 7 based on the NPCs, its pretty much Oblivion in the future.....


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Postby Best_predator » Oct 30th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

I'll be honest, didn't want to hear that. Elder Scrolls: Fallout is not what I was looking for. I'm yet to put some hours into it though.
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Postby Catharsys » Oct 31st, 2008 at 8:52 am

http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/fal ... 240p1.html - survival guide, addresses some of your issues. ie hacking/lockpicking, cancel after 3 tries and start again.

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Postby Timmy » Oct 31st, 2008 at 3:26 pm

It says 360, but some of those tips don't seem to fit the console, like the lockpicking, I haven't seen it as getting 4 shots at picking, I've busted a pick on the first turn, and I'm sure I've gotten more than 4 close calls once I learned how to be cautious when picking.

All in all it was pretty basic, I do disagree on the stats though, telling you to stop at 9 in stats because there are bobbleheads to boost the stats is lame. First off I'm 8th level and only found the medical boost bobblehead from the intro. Thats 7 levels I would have lost on my 10 int worth of skill points, and thats figuring to find the int bobblehead before my next level. Same for Agility, the extra VATS and small guns accuracy is a huge help early on. The other stats I can agree on not maxxing as they aren't as helpful.

Then they recommend boosting strength, ummmm you get a whopping 10 carrying cap per str, and I really didn't notice much damage difference between my 5 str shooter guy and my 10 str melee guy as far as unarmed/melee damage. At 5 Str I can carry 200 lbs of crud, if I hit the cap its time to go home and sell/store some stuff. At 8th level you can take strong back and gain 50 carrying cap, thats 5 points of str worth for one perk, a much better investment for all but pure melee'rs.


I'm currently at 8th level, str 5, per 8, end 5, chr 1, int 10, agi 10, luck 5. looking back I might have dropped end to 4 maybe even 3 to add some luck for more crits. I haven't even come close to being one shotted yet except by missiles so I think I could have made due with less end and just used stimpacks a bit more (I have a huge stash of them with my 5 end).

My 1 charisma hasn't hurt me yet, and most speech skill options are very much Oblivion style, you just use it to milk more reward from quest givers, again I'm not suffering from lack of money despite my near non-existant bartering skillz.


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Postby Timmy » Nov 6th, 2008 at 9:53 pm

Bleh, I should have gotten Fable 2. The more you play the more the game sucks, which has me absolutley sure the reviews are based on 30 minutes of play.

Pure combat is pretty much a neccesity, despite there being lots of other skills. I can't see making a character without a 10 intelligence due to all the skill levels needed to before basic tasks. Energy weapons suck until fairly late in the game when you get plasma, the laser pistol and rifle both pale next to their bullet using companions. The 10mm pistol you start with is as good or better than the laser, and the hunting rifle is a better long range hit, the assault rifle better for closer combat. The big guns are total overkill, but of course ammo is fairly limited, I'm pretty sure you could play the whole way through using the weapons that fall into small arms.

The game suffers from the typical Bethesda problems since they refuse to clean up their crap, freezes, crashes, NPC's that disapear (quest ones of course) and the bugs are the same for pc and console.

Despite the totally open ended game they hawk, it's even worse than oblivion with its locks, almost everything is locked, or requires hacking and the skill levels needed don't reflect the reward at all. Tons of 75 or 100 skill needed locks/computers and if you happen to have the skill, the reward is usually paltry. You're decked out in power armor carrying a mini nuke gun a chainsword and a power sledge hammer but wooden doors with locks thwart you....

Speech is near useless, as is Barter, Repair is pretty much a must have skill, without it you'll be using crappy weapons that break often and you'll pay through the nose just to have a merchant repair them up to average....

Unarmed is crap, and really showcases the over the top gore in VATS. with spiked gloves I frequently punched peoples arms off...., you can blow peoples heads of with a bb gun (and this is a weak gun, not the powerhouse from F2). Of course on the other side of the spectrum you can shoot someone in the face 5 times "crippling" their head yet they still nail you unnerringly.

To make the very short main quest longer they made the cityscape mostly untravellable, rather than simply wander the city to the spot you need to go you have to go through extensive tunnel systems to pop up in a enclosed city spot whick has the entrance to the next tunnel you need to traverse.....

The NPCs are scattered and unless you play evil you won't get a decent one (well even the early evil ones ain't so hot) you have little to no control of the npcs other than making them wait behind. Since they have the same eagle vision the mobs in the game have, your companion will often run off to kill something you don't even know is there, and either die trying, or kill it netting you no exp.

The most fun really is coming up with character concepts, despite the fact that most will fail unless the concept is uber killer. I've been chatting on a forum about the game with a group of 8 or so people, all of us excited at first and swapping character ideas. As days of playing went by we all started noticing how weak the game really is.

The repair system sucks, it uses the same world levels with you crap from Oblivion (although zones have caps so its not near as gay as Oblivion), The graphic textures suck, walls stick out further than their graphics show (so you shoot lots of invisible walls), some graphics have openings like railings on a walkway, or the wooden framework of a burned out house but its pure guesswork if you can actually shoot through the openings or not. All this adds up to lots of misses and since you can't cancel the VATS once you start it, you'll shoot that wall every time..... of course your target will be alerted and proceed to maul you. I frequently got stuck on graphic, had my lower body fall through the ground while fighting, I've had mobs literally teleport around the screen (while on an elevated walkway shooting a critter below me it just disapeared, reappearing right next to me.....). Monsters fall through the ground (I found a scorpion buried, only its tail above ground), get stuck in walls, as do items dropped on occasion, mines sometimes get spawned under the ground which makes finding them oh so pleasant.

Basically all the shitty graphics troubles from every Bethesda game are revisited in this one.

I won't be buying a Bethesda product ever again.

Tim~

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Postby K2 » Nov 7th, 2008 at 3:08 am

Some of my soldiers are playing Fallout 3 on the xbox 360, and so far they like it.

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Postby Timmy » Nov 7th, 2008 at 6:47 am

As I said its fun at first, the intro is really well done. Just the fact that Bethesda has had all the exact same problems with bugs since ES:Arena, all while doing nothing to improve the game play, tells me they don't care. Right now they're big because they have no competition in the open world RPG's, everything else is linear. Thats why I picked up Fallout 3 despite my dislike of Oblivion, I hate the Japanese style RPGs with premade characters. herded gameplay, and 5 hour cut scenes.

Also Bethesda has gotten more into the herding since Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3 both force you to combat grind to achieve your goal with no other alternative.


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Postby DirtyCabbage » Nov 7th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

You can't cancel the VATS??!! Actually you can cancel it timmy, unless of course there is a certain point into it that you cannot, but from what I see you can cancel all the time. I agree there are a lot of issues that need to be fixed. I at first was dreading it. Look at the box... *sigh* I guess I should play it and get my money's worth but the more I play the more I enjoy watching the gibs fly in slow mo.

I am really waiting on Mirrors Edge. I play the shit out of that demo on 360. I think that might be a game to keep your eye on.

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Postby sX » Nov 8th, 2008 at 12:56 am

I don't care who 'Dirty Cabbage' is but I love his name.. therefore I love him.


....


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Postby Timmy » Nov 8th, 2008 at 8:20 am

Yeah Mirrors looks like it has alot of potential, I just hope it has some variety, Assassins Creed was great open game at first but then you find out all you do is the same 4 things over and over. I'm lucky the guys at EB Games all know me, the boss told me I could bring any games back within a month of release, so Fallout 3 is goin back to pay for Resistance 2 :)


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Postby Best_predator » Nov 8th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

After putting some hours into Fallout 3... its great game. They did a lot of things right and few things wrong. They kept the aura of previous games pretty well from what I've seen so far.

Ammo is an issue sometimes but I got like 7 guns on me at all times so shooting things is not the problem, its what I'm shootin it with. I'm using all small guns so I have no problem destroying anything because i have that skill up high.

It little bit different from Fallout 1 and 2 but it's worth playing. At least for me this game did a MUCH better job keeping the same "aura" than Fallout:tactics.
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Postby Best_predator » Nov 12th, 2008 at 1:23 am

As I'm playing more and more I find that Timmy's assessment was quite wrong :).
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Postby Timmy » Nov 12th, 2008 at 7:23 am

And I'm wrong where? hmmm?

You did exactly what I said needed to be done to play the game as they intended, hell by going small arms you pretty much set the game on easy.

I've read you could easily finish the game just using the hunting rifle with high small arms skill. Kinda makes energy weapons a joke, why invest in a skill and wait to find a decent energy weapon when you can pwn the game with a weapon you can get from the outset?

Try unarmed combat, even with maxxed unarmed skill and 10 str you'll hit like a feather pillow, but put on some crappy low listed damage brass knuckles and you'll punch body parts off, guess unarmed means armed.....

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Postby Best_predator » Nov 12th, 2008 at 8:48 pm

Timmy wrote:And I'm wrong where? hmmm?

You did exactly what I said needed to be done to play the game as they intended, hell by going small arms you pretty much set the game on easy.

I've read you could easily finish the game just using the hunting rifle with high small arms skill. Kinda makes energy weapons a joke, why invest in a skill and wait to find a decent energy weapon when you can pwn the game with a weapon you can get from the outset?

Try unarmed combat, even with maxxed unarmed skill and 10 str you'll hit like a feather pillow, but put on some crappy low listed damage brass knuckles and you'll punch body parts off, guess unarmed means armed.....

Tim~


It's better than the way you put it. Basically you filtered it though it's faults. They kept the aura, the combat is good and NOT like oblivion. Pure combat is absolutely not necessary with occasional exceptions to finish people off.

I follow no ones advice on how to play Fallout games. I've always played Fallout 1-2 with small guns because my experience has been they worked the best. And yes, if you've ever tried unaramed combat in Fallout 2 you'd know that everything maxed without some kind of knuckles is useless. For unarmed(in fallout1/2) you MUST have both sneak and unarmed maxed with approprite perks on top. So i don't see whats the complaint there. Especially when you say with knuckles it works great.

As for energy weapons... its up to you. You pretty much fail or at least not playing to full potential at 1st 2 games if you invest in more than 1 combat skill. Not so much here if you have high intelligence.

High intelligence rings true to previous games also. They govern how much skill points you have. Sad part is that you have a modifier from your SPECIAL stats that still lower your %'s.

Example with the same person in megaton in the beginning of the game:
Speech skill: 25
Charisma 10 - gives you 47% chance of success.
Charisma 5 - 36%
Charisma 1 - 24%

Not exact percentages but in general vicinity. Same thing for other stats. So just cause you have 100% speech doesn't mean you're the smoothest talker and you also won't have as many dialog options without charisma checks.
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Postby Timmy » Nov 12th, 2008 at 11:06 pm

Sneak doesn't really work in Fallout 3, I had it maxxed with 8 dex and couldn't ever get close enough to do a sneak attack melee thats including silent running. Mobs move too much and have incredible senses. Fallout 2 wasn't near as bad ass this with unarmed, you were better with knuckles sure, but in F3 you HAVE to have em. I guess they forsaw my attempted work around the gay ass repair system.

Sure my critiques might seem harsh but the flaws are glaring, if some people are willing to play the game despite them more power to them. Its funny that you say it kept the aura when thats one of the things most people say is missing. I don't recall insane over the top dismemberments from the previous two, you can't kill the children no matter how much they annoy you (wasn't a problem before). The skill levels were a mess, and sometimes even mislabelled (disarm any baby buggy bombs with a 60 explosives lately). They really took away the freedom of the previous games too, sure you can explore most of the west openly, but the east you can't seem to climb that rubble, instead you get stuck in endless tunnels. The numbers don't add up right, 100% rad resist didn't make me immune. I think alot of people are willing to play with the flaws simply because it's the only one out there, if you wanna play a post apocalyptic rpg what are your other choices?


I'm sure a plethora of patches will be coming soon, and for the PC more than likely lots of "fixes" from the player community.

Black Isle woulda done it better, much better.


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Postby Best_predator » Nov 13th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

I'll give you as much as that I'm filtering it from different expectations. When I was reading about it I REALLY thought the game was gona be Oblivion: Fallout 3. I thought VATS would be absolutely useless. I guess my expectations were so low that I was easily impressed by this game. I agree with you, the aura is not on par with first 2 games. There's half the content as there is in 1st 2 games.

Overall I still think it is quite enjoyable game to play. I'll definitely replay it with high charisma at the very least. While I'm doing that I'll replay Fallout 2 for hundredth time :lol: .
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Postby Timmy » Nov 13th, 2008 at 7:53 pm

I liked the VATS system, that was probably my favorite feature of the game, aside from the odd shooting errors and grenade errors (shots that I clearly had lined up would hit the corner of the wall/pillar/post/whatever I was shooting around, grenades would get eaten by floors/stairs/walls, no explosion just wasted 'nade and VATS time) I thought it was a really creative way to sort of keep the feel from the old Fallouts.

I think I came in the other way, I was actually hoping Bethesda would do it justice and so the more I played aside from VATS I disliked it more and more.


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Postby Best_predator » Nov 13th, 2008 at 11:34 pm

Timmy wrote:I liked the VATS system, that was probably my favorite feature of the game, aside from the odd shooting errors and grenade errors (shots that I clearly had lined up would hit the corner of the wall/pillar/post/whatever I was shooting around, grenades would get eaten by floors/stairs/walls, no explosion just wasted 'nade and VATS time) I thought it was a really creative way to sort of keep the feel from the old Fallouts.

I think I came in the other way, I was actually hoping Bethesda would do it justice and so the more I played aside from VATS I disliked it more and more.


Tim~


Yea. We came from totally 2 different expectations is all. To be fair, if they were to say, just remake fallou 2 on steam engine it would take them twice the time it took to make this. With this kind of engine it's pretty impossible to put that much content in the game. Plus the main story is pretty short and doesn't take you around to too many places which i was hoping it would.
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Postby Maverick » Jan 4th, 2009 at 11:20 am

I just received the PS3 version of Fallout 3, as a late Xmas gift, and after reading this thread I have no idea what to think. :lol:

But once I do start playing this game, I will get to offer a new perspective...

I've never seen nor played any of the Fallout games before.

I've also entirely disliked the little bit of Morrowwind and Oblivion that I have played and seen. I'm the opposite of Timmy in that I was weaned on linear rpg's. Starting with King's Quest and Oregon Trail up to Final Fantasy and the like. "Open" rpg's tend to bore me.

That being said, Fallout 3 is gonna really have to impress me, especially with all of the awards and rave reviews it's receiving. All of that on top of the "legendary" status of the Fallout series and the "successes" of Bethesda.

I'm glad I didn't pay for this game because the odds are against it for impressing to me.

To be continued...
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Postby Burzum » Jan 6th, 2009 at 10:12 am

Maverick wrote:I'm the opposite of Timmy in that I was weaned on linear rpg's. Starting with King's Quest and Oregon Trail up to Final Fantasy and the like. "Open" rpg's tend to bore me.


Oregon Trail! I used to play that at the public library before I had a computer. That had to be 16 years ago...man I feel old.

Be sure to let us know what you think of it Mav. I'm curious to give it a try.
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Postby Maverick » Jan 12th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

I've played about 2 hours or so and the game started really slow, but has picked up greatly now that I am out in the Wastelands.

I agree with a few of the known flaws such as the stiff animations, questionable AI and clunky combat.

However, so far the immersiveness of the game and the attention to detail really goes a long way. I'm hoping the gameplay doesn't become a repetitive grind, because for now I almost don't notice the quests and don't yet feel that I am grinding.
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