Diablo III petition. What's your take?

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sX
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Diablo III petition. What's your take?

Postby sX » Jul 20th, 2008 at 12:32 am

I agree on a lot of things. Let me know what you think?





To:

This petition is being made as a way to express the disappointment of us, the Diablo fans, about the way Diablo III artistic direction is being done.



There's a long discussion about this matter happening in http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9283 , there's thousands of comments in there so if you have any comment or suggestion feel free to do it there.



The main objective of this petition is to show Blizzard that there's a significant number of players that dont agree with the current art style of the game, with this petition we hope to make Blizzard ear our voices, our opinions and our suggestions and we seriously want some changes in the artistic direction of the game so it could be more coherent and familiar with the Diablo universe.



It is our opinion that the graphic elements that characterize the Diablo universe are not fully present in this sequel, Diablo universe is made of:

- Gothic and obscure scenarios, cryptic, dark and shadowy dungeons

- Graphically realistic world with realistic, dirty and muddy textures

- Realistic armory and weaponry without over-sized and exaggerated proportions like big shoulder guards

- A macabre, dark and realistic art style

- Light radius, as all of you can remember, Diablo dungeons were characterized by the combination of a light radius system with shadows, everything that resides outside of the character vision sight is shadowed.



What we got in Diablo III:

- Cartoon'ish art direction, obviously influenced by the Warcraft universe, Diablo isnt Warcraft.

- Hand made, pastel looking textures with bold lines, defined contours, smooth colors and clean shapes.

- Dungeons with a blue/green environment lighting, technique used in cartoons to depict a dark, creepy and scary feeling but once again, this is Diablo, a mature game, dungeons should have a dark aura with the occasional lights from candles, just like we got in the previews Diablo's.

- Character models defined by cartoon characteristics like over-sized and exaggerated parts, vivid colors and unrealistic elements, almost directly taken away from World of Warcraft and pasted to Diablo.

- Outside scenarios with vivid colors, beautiful forests with colorful vegetation, shinny and beautiful waterfalls where even rainbows take place.

- Cartoon'ish and unrealistic weaponry and armory, over-sized and stylish armors, over-sized weapons, items that look pasted directly from World of Warcraft.

- Blocky, cartoon'ish graphic elements like big, over-sized fire braziers in dungeons, heavily influenced by the World of Warcraft art style, over-sized and cartoon'ish scenario decorations like smiling statues, Warcraft styled architecture and decorations.



What we want:

- A darker, gothic, cryptic and creepier environment.

- A more realistic artistic direction, more independent from the Warcraft universe art direction.

- Darker dungeons without a blue/green environment, Diablo dungeons are dark and shadowy.

- The return of the light radius / shadow system from Diablo 1 and 2, a concept modified picture made by me roughly shows and suggests how the shadow system should work on Diablo 3: http://i31.tinypic.com/2zta5o7.jpg

- Slightly less colorful and less vivid outside scenarios, they are too heavily influenced by the World of Warcraft ones.

- Darker and less colorful landscapes, Tristam never was colorful and beautiful: here's how it looked in Diablo 1 (before the evil was released across the lands): http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5194/tristram2jh.jpg

- And most importantly: An independent and renewed artistic direction, not a recycled art direction taken from the Warcraft world, Diablo never was meant to be as cartoon'ish as Warcraft, they shall have independent and distinct styles, this isnt happening in Diablo 3, at first sight it looks like a remake of World of Warcraft, graphically and artistically speaking.

- Example of the heavy influence from World of Warcraft that we dont think it fits the Diablo universe: http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6795/d ... 157dw4.jpg and http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images ... -hires.jpg



Common arguments:

Q: The game is still under development, it's on pre alpha stage, we only saw the first act, much can change.

A: True, the game is still under development but the artistic direction isnt since it's one of the first steps in the development of a game, until you have a fully developed artistic direction and concept you cant easily move on with the development of the game, the artistic direction will tell the artists (modelers, texture artists, etc) how the game elements shall look and feel. Since this artistic direction is already fully and happily developed (words from Blizzard) this cartoon'ish and colorful style will be present in the whole game.



Q: Being less cartoon'ish and more realistic would make the game heavier on computers

A: False, there's a lot of techniques like bump mapping that help developers give a realistic look to textures, any recent graphic card with less than 8 years support bump mapping, there's a lot more techniques that can help giving that realistic look, being 3D doesnt mean it should look cartoon'ish.



Q: Diablo 3 happens 20 years after Diablo 2, the world is peaceful and the evil is gone, that's why the scenarios are colorful and vivid.

A: That doesnt mean forgotten dungeons should be clean and shinny, looking like a team of house keeping maidens spent hours there cleaning and making everything clean and shinny, without any trace of dirt, dungeons are supposed to be creepy and scary.

Diablo 1 Tristam also looked evil and scary before the evil was unleashed, check this picture of Diablo 1 Tristam and compare it to Diablo 3 Tristam: http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5194/tristram2jh.jpg find the differences.



And lastly here's a few concept pictures of how fans want Diablo 3 to be, they might be inaccurate and exaggerated but remember, they're just concept pictures, suggestions of how the game could look, Blizzard can find a balanced term:



The light radius from Diablo 2 in Diablo 3:

http://i31.tinypic.com/2zta5o7.jpg



Environment suggestions:

http://i32.tinypic.com/2zqr9yx.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/2jexp1x.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/vep6ix.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/ ... ablo32.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/ ... ablo31.jpg

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/1681 ... wu5oq6.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7807/itshouldrh5.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... aftzs3.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6065 ... ikevx5.jpg



What we ask Blizzard is to find a way of pleasing the fans of the Diablo universe by giving us a true sequel to Diablo 2 that is graphically coherent with the Diablo universe it belongs to.



Thanks

Sincerely,

The Undersigned
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Postby Mouser » Jul 20th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

I think a lot of people are getting their panties in a bunch over not much. They FINALLY are making d3 and I think it looks great. Maybe change the color palette a bit, but either way, I still can't wait for it to come out.

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Postby sX » Jul 20th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

I think it looks great as well, but I don't like the fact that it's heading towards the looks of WoW. I don't agree with the light radius either and the extremely over sized characters and weapons. The color is scheme is plain ridiculous.

You know what.. I want to hear Timmy's take on this.

Actually... you gave me your original Diablo CD at LAN.

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Postby Timmy » Jul 20th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

Diablo is poop, I barely played the second one. Mindless hackfest with totally unbalanced classes, yayayaya! The only thing from Blizzard I'm even remotely interested in is Starcraft 2. Play Titan Quest, you can get the gold edition box set for like 20-30 bucks, No single class gimping, tons of different variables. All the item gathering you love so much from Diablo, not as much "crafting" but it does have tons of different "charms" that can be added to weapons/jewelry/armor for added affects.

Of course they'll go with the WoW look, it is after all their crowning achievement of mindless level/item grinding. Diablo 3 will just be the "single player" version of WoW.


Tim~

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Postby Maverick » Jul 20th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

I guess everyone has to complain about something... :roll: :roll: :roll:

I think the game looks great.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing..."
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Postby sX » Jul 20th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

Maverick wrote:I guess everyone has to complain about something... :roll: :roll: :roll:

I think the game looks great.


Get your ass out of here..

No one likes you nor cares about your opinion.

I hate you.

Come home. I miss you.

*cries*

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Postby Best_predator » Jul 20th, 2008 at 11:17 pm

Good point.

This art style reminds me of Titan's quest.
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Postby Miracl3 » Jul 21st, 2008 at 10:08 pm

D3 < SC2
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Postby sX » Jul 22nd, 2008 at 3:42 pm

I agree Miracle, but we're not talking about SC2, now are we?

GJ!
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Postby Miracl3 » Jul 22nd, 2008 at 10:25 pm

Nah but it would be a hell of alot more interesting then this topic. Theres always some guy whos gonna start the bandwagon of why games arent like they should be compared to their prequels. Theres nothing a petition is going to do about it, Blizzard has too much fucking money to care what you and the next guy thinks. I personally think you should take the good with the bad and not expect the same thing you played before. That's like whining that GTA 4 looked nothing like GTA 3. They darkened the city up to make it look nastier because everyone said the streets looked too pretty and people still bitched about it being too grimy now.
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Postby sX » Jul 23rd, 2008 at 1:01 am

Miracl3 wrote:Nah but it would be a hell of alot more interesting then this topic. Theres always some guy whos gonna start the bandwagon of why games arent like they should be compared to their prequels. Theres nothing a petition is going to do about it, Blizzard has too much fucking money to care what you and the next guy thinks. I personally think you should take the good with the bad and not expect the same thing you played before. That's like whining that GTA 4 looked nothing like GTA 3. They darkened the city up to make it look nastier because everyone said the streets looked too pretty and people still bitched about it being too grimy now.


I agree what you're saying.. but..

GTA4 has the same type of game play as the GTA3 did. It's like taking out the guns in GTA4 and replacing them with slingshots. That's how I at least see it..

They took the heart out of D3 and just built WoW in it's place.

I don't care if the petition has any effect on D3. I'm just glad someone is actually seeing my point of view as far as how they're changing it..

I'm also glad they kept SC2 just like the original.. or did they take away the shadows on the map, too? Nope. Guess they didn't...

I do take in the good with the bad.. but I just don't think there is any good in this?

Hell, what am I saying.. I'll still play it.
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Postby Timmy » Jul 23rd, 2008 at 1:20 pm

I won't be playing it, not because I hate Blizzard (which I do) but because it's going to be EXACTLY like its predecessors in that its just a mindless level/item grind. I prefer a little more in my games than that, I could care less if they changed the way it looks because it'll play the exact same, grind out levels while hoping to find the next uber item. Also it'll be what a week into the game before all the hacks come out?


Its funny Miracl3 brought up GTA4, now theres a game that hasn't changed at all, its still a shitty shooter crossed with a shitty driving game. The only real changes have been graphically.

Games should evolve to better game play, enhanced graphics should be secondary to that, but everyone always oohs and ahhs over some shitty game that looks pretty and won't run on anything but the highest end computers. Crysis was so raved about at all the conventions, oooh look at the blade of grasses shadow!!! Real looking leaves! Woopie fucking doo, the game was still a mediocre shooter at best, so "pretty" almost no one could play it solo, much less multiplayer.

But back to D3, I think its funny the petition is bitching about the way it looks, what about the gameplay? Any improvements, anything pushing the envelope, or are they basically recoloring the same old same old?


Tim~

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Postby Miracl3 » Jul 23rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm

Timmy wrote:

Its funny Miracl3 brought up GTA4, now theres a game that hasn't changed at all, its still a shitty shooter crossed with a shitty driving game. The only real changes have been graphically.

Tim~

Evidently you havent played through the storyline completely and multiple times. If you notice he speaks alot of russian at the beginning of game and depending on how many missions you do his english gets better. BTW on gta 3 have u ever been running from the police, rear ended a car and total your car but when you jump in the other car its totaled because you curled the rear end up and the wheels are no longer touching the ground? Ive done alot of testing on the new gta and compared to the old one driving is more realistic. I have VC on Xbox that works on 360 and quite frankly, No matter how fast ur going you can still make a 90 degree turn. And if you think the driving is still shitty...quite frankly you cant drive. You cant go 90 to nothing through NY and not expect to hit someone or something. And the handling reminds me of the latest Midnight Club truthfully which is nice. But back to D3, I'll prob buy it cuz im a Blizz fan but im seriously waiting on SC2. And if D3 is released before SC2 I'll be so pissed. lol BTW all GTA games since the first one have had the same shitty storyline, but the games arent about that as much as the open capabilities. GTA 3 was the first 3d GTA but it wasnt criticized, Then R* started pooping out VC and SA like it was nothing. Eventually i think we will wind up with the best gta (SA) mixed with GTA4 graphics which will be fucking awesome.
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Postby Timmy » Jul 23rd, 2008 at 4:47 pm

Miracl3 wrote:
Timmy wrote:

Its funny Miracl3 brought up GTA4, now theres a game that hasn't changed at all, its still a shitty shooter crossed with a shitty driving game. The only real changes have been graphically.

Tim~

Evidently you havent played through the storyline completely and multiple times. If you notice he speaks alot of russian at the beginning of game and depending on how many missions you do his english gets better. BTW on gta 3 have u ever been running from the police, rear ended a car and total your car but when you jump in the other car its totaled because you curled the rear end up and the wheels are no longer touching the ground? Ive done alot of testing on the new gta and compared to the old one driving is more realistic. I have VC on Xbox that works on 360 and quite frankly, No matter how fast ur going you can still make a 90 degree turn. And if you think the driving is still shitty...quite frankly you cant drive. You cant go 90 to nothing through NY and not expect to hit someone or something. And the handling reminds me of the latest Midnight Club truthfully which is nice. But back to D3, I'll prob buy it cuz im a Blizz fan but im seriously waiting on SC2. And if D3 is released before SC2 I'll be so pissed. lol BTW all GTA games since the first one have had the same shitty storyline, but the games arent about that as much as the open capabilities. GTA 3 was the first 3d GTA but it wasnt criticized, Then R* started pooping out VC and SA like it was nothing. Eventually i think we will wind up with the best gta (SA) mixed with GTA4 graphics which will be fucking awesome.



Checking your little ticker signature Miracle you have a 55% completion rating on GTA4, looks to me like you haven't finished it once, much less multiple times.

Tim~

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Postby K2 » Jul 23rd, 2008 at 6:50 pm

Crysis was actually a very good FPS in single-player. The part where you're in the alien mountain was a lil frustrating, but overall the game was good. It could have been great, but Crytek decided that after two patches/6 months after release they'd stop supporting it. Eye-candy aside, the physics and AI were better than most anything else out there as of it's release... decent enough AI that you could go thru a same area again and do things completely different, and the bad guys would react in different ways. Multiplayer Crysis = crap.

I used to take stock in your game reviews Timmy, but over the years from covering something like 30+ titles on the board here, I think I've only seen 1-2 positive reviews. I think you're too biased... you've given some shitty reviews to some alright games. Ah well... critics will be critics.

About D3 - yeah, the screens look like it was ripped right from WoW, with less detailed textures. If Blizzard doesnt listen, I'm sure someone will find a way to mod it out so it has the look/feel of D2.

I havent even looked at SC2. If they make it to be just like the first one, I'd be disappointed.

The one game I am lookin forward to this year is Spore - this one has truly set itself apart. It'll be out during the time I'll be on R&R in the states.

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Postby sX » Jul 23rd, 2008 at 8:26 pm

Timmy wrote:
But back to D3, I think its funny the petition is bitching about the way it looks, what about the gameplay? Any improvements, anything pushing the envelope, or are they basically recoloring the same old same old?


Tim~


Well that's the thing, Timmy, I think the graphic changes DOES effect game play. It's like taking CS and making it look like TF2 graphics. Cartoon-ish.

Honestly Miracle I think the point that you're making with GTA series is moot and irrelevant.

I hope there are great improvements in SC2 and hopefully all races are created equal in fights. Somethings were just too much BS, but nonetheless still great to play.

sX

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Postby Timmy » Jul 23rd, 2008 at 9:52 pm

K2 wrote:Crysis was actually a very good FPS in single-player. The part where you're in the alien mountain was a lil frustrating, but overall the game was good. It could have been great, but Crytek decided that after two patches/6 months after release they'd stop supporting it. Eye-candy aside, the physics and AI were better than most anything else out there as of it's release... decent enough AI that you could go thru a same area again and do things completely different, and the bad guys would react in different ways. Multiplayer Crysis = crap.

I used to take stock in your game reviews Timmy, but over the years from covering something like 30+ titles on the board here, I think I've only seen 1-2 positive reviews. I think you're too biased... you've given some shitty reviews to some alright games. Ah well... critics will be critics.

About D3 - yeah, the screens look like it was ripped right from WoW, with less detailed textures. If Blizzard doesnt listen, I'm sure someone will find a way to mod it out so it has the look/feel of D2.

I havent even looked at SC2. If they make it to be just like the first one, I'd be disappointed.

The one game I am lookin forward to this year is Spore - this one has truly set itself apart. It'll be out during the time I'll be on R&R in the states.



I've given a few decent to good ones, but yeah I'm not like some shitty game magazine/web site that gives rave reviews to mediocre games released by popular creators. I want the game to wow me game play wise, I don't think the Crysis ai was really any better than Farcry, and all the super powers you had seemed like they just tossed em in without any play testing, I only used them when they forced me to, otherwise it was just a joke, woowoo 5 seconds of speed, just enough to run out into the open and get shot to shit. I'm also waiting for Spore they have a creature creator on sale in the stores for 10 bucks.

Lots of really good games have had one or two annoying things about them that ticked me off. GTA4 despite Miracles fanboi love was a good story patched on a mediocre game to me. Gears of War was great up until the end fight where you could only do it with one particular weapon, which if you left behind....... Timeshift was a blast until a certain point where you had to do like 6 things in near perfect sequence (like fucking Dragons Lair...) to get past it. Metal Gear was fun but the never-ending reinforcements was lame, and if you have your weapon ready, not aimed, just ready, you turn like a fucking sloth so to turn aournd fast you have to lower your gun, spin, then raise it, who does this? Oh and the 5 hour cut scenes got kinda annoying too although Mav loved em cuz he got breaks to eat caramel corn :P

I've been playing Mount and Blade lately, it's a beta hack and slash take over the world type game that can be totally altered to your playstyle, from ultra realism to "I am super human" level, its also very mod friendly with tons of mods made and being made for it, the final version should be out pretty soon as the current beta (.960) is the last before the final.

If you have a DS K2 you should get Etrian Odessey 1 and or 2, They're throwbacks to the old Bards Tale games, you even have to draw in the walls ,and markers and doors and stuff with the stylus. It's as friggen hard as Bards Tale too, you HAVE to have a healer to do any exploring, money is scarce, and healing items cost alot. Boss fights will kick your ass, personally I don't like it cuz theres only the one difficulty level which is too much for my candy ass but I know you love that kinda stuff.

Oh and just to stay on topic, D3 will be poop :P


Tim~

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Postby Miracl3 » Jul 24th, 2008 at 5:32 am

Timmy wrote:
Miracl3 wrote:
Timmy wrote:

Its funny Miracl3 brought up GTA4, now theres a game that hasn't changed at all, its still a shitty shooter crossed with a shitty driving game. The only real changes have been graphically.

Tim~

Evidently you havent played through the storyline completely and multiple times. If you notice he speaks alot of russian at the beginning of game and depending on how many missions you do his english gets better. BTW on gta 3 have u ever been running from the police, rear ended a car and total your car but when you jump in the other car its totaled because you curled the rear end up and the wheels are no longer touching the ground? Ive done alot of testing on the new gta and compared to the old one driving is more realistic. I have VC on Xbox that works on 360 and quite frankly, No matter how fast ur going you can still make a 90 degree turn. And if you think the driving is still shitty...quite frankly you cant drive. You cant go 90 to nothing through NY and not expect to hit someone or something. And the handling reminds me of the latest Midnight Club truthfully which is nice. But back to D3, I'll prob buy it cuz im a Blizz fan but im seriously waiting on SC2. And if D3 is released before SC2 I'll be so pissed. lol BTW all GTA games since the first one have had the same shitty storyline, but the games arent about that as much as the open capabilities. GTA 3 was the first 3d GTA but it wasnt criticized, Then R* started pooping out VC and SA like it was nothing. Eventually i think we will wind up with the best gta (SA) mixed with GTA4 graphics which will be fucking awesome.



Checking your little ticker signature Miracle you have a 55% completion rating on GTA4, looks to me like you haven't finished it once, much less multiple times.

Tim~

Check again bub, You'll see the You've Won achievement. Only thing left to do for Key To the City achievement is find the little pigeons and stuntjumps. Plus make all my friends like me 90% or better. Had to finish it twice because i fucked up and killed a random char who was part of the 100% achievement.....twice lol.
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Postby Timmy » Jul 24th, 2008 at 9:29 am

My bad, must be more side stuff on the 360, on the PS3 I think finishing is like 55-60%.




Oh and sX, I bet the Warcraft look of D3 is intentional, they want to draw in a larger group. You yourself admitted you'll buy it even though you think it looks stupid, my bet is EVERY other Diablo fan will too. Then add in what I said before, its WoW single player and you have that many more people that will grab it. I'm betting they'll set some new sales record since it seems like 99% of the world is in love with level grinds......

Tim~

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Postby Miracl3 » Jul 25th, 2008 at 5:55 am

Timmy wrote:My bad, must be more side stuff on the 360, on the PS3 I think finishing is like 55-60%.




Oh and sX, I bet the Warcraft look of D3 is intentional, they want to draw in a larger group. You yourself admitted you'll buy it even though you think it looks stupid, my bet is EVERY other Diablo fan will too. Then add in what I said before, its WoW single player and you have that many more people that will grab it. I'm betting they'll set some new sales record since it seems like 99% of the world is in love with level grinds......

Tim~

Damn figured you had 360, was gonna ask you your gamertag. BTW gz to Sony for stealing MS's achievement idea heh
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Postby Mouser » Jul 26th, 2008 at 4:27 am

Miracl3 wrote:
Timmy wrote:My bad, must be more side stuff on the 360, on the PS3 I think finishing is like 55-60%.




Oh and sX, I bet the Warcraft look of D3 is intentional, they want to draw in a larger group. You yourself admitted you'll buy it even though you think it looks stupid, my bet is EVERY other Diablo fan will too. Then add in what I said before, its WoW single player and you have that many more people that will grab it. I'm betting they'll set some new sales record since it seems like 99% of the world is in love with level grinds......

Tim~

Damn figured you had 360, was gonna ask you your gamertag. BTW gz to Sony for stealing MS's achievement idea heh


Microsoft's achievement idea? Pretty sure I've played many games before they implemented that into toe 360. I remember spending hours and hours in Tony Hawk 2 trying to complete all the little achievements. It's a very old idea.

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Postby Miracl3 » Jul 26th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

Dude...achievements were at launch.
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Postby SinneD » Jul 26th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

Miracl3 wrote:Dude...achievements were at launch.


game achievements have been around longer than the 360 launch.

lol at tony hawk 2 i used to play that soo much, constantly played that 1 pool level i forgot the name. that game was so much fun
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Postby Miracl3 » Jul 26th, 2008 at 8:58 pm

Well what i mean by achievements were gamerscore achievements such as PS3's new trophy system. Lots of games have lil stuff like in THP2
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Postby sX » Jul 26th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

/me starts making the jacking off motion

Thread jackers..

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