de_dust2/cs_office anyone?

Wanna discuss anything about the Hardfought game servers, from game mods to hardware specs? Do it right HERE.

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Postby Deleted User » Apr 17th, 2006 at 1:06 am

20 second warmup would be plenty
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Postby Deleted User » Apr 17th, 2006 at 1:45 am

people seem to be ignoring my de_arena idea....

*sigh*
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Postby Deleted User » Apr 17th, 2006 at 2:00 am

GameOver wrote:people seem to be ignoring my de_arena idea....

*sigh*


because it sucks.
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Postby ender*(gayless) » Apr 17th, 2006 at 2:37 am

GameOver wrote:people seem to be ignoring my de_arena idea....

*sigh*


a certain SOMEONE seems to be ignoring my stop playing WoW idea.
ender will save us all

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Postby K2 » Apr 17th, 2006 at 3:18 am

Oreo wrote:The server is too slow paced. The round timer takes forever, the new players are dragging out the entire round time so we wait while dead for 2+ minutes instead of the standard waiting time. There is too much voting on the server instead of just a normal maplist.

We need more people on the server, we need zero map voting with just a regular rotation of 3-4 maps that everyone likes. I know it's shitty for variety, but it keeps people in the server. The warmup timer is pointless, period. The fact that it's too long, its only nades and knives, and that its there at all, is stupid. Those 60-90 seconds of bullshit just give people a time to leave (which is what usually happens, they need an excuse and that's the perfect time because it lasts forever). If anything the server just needs to restart the round after 15 seconds of both teams having a player on them. Usually after each team has 1 player it's 15 seconds or less before everyone else is in. If you can't make the pistol round by that time you seriously need some type of upgrade.

No ingame stats that I've seen. Nothing comprehensive at all like on other servers where you can see your headshot percentage and your ratio without getting out a calculator. Pretty sure that was hlstatsx.

THe join and leave money shit is retarded. I can understand replacing your money to what it was when you disconnect and then reconnect to the server, but the method is completely wrong. It replaces your money with your last known amount WHEN THE NEXT ROUND STARTS, it's stupid. You can disconnect and reconnect with $800 (if tha's what you left with) and you will only get $800 the next round even if your team won the round. You basically get money fucked for 2 rounds if you disconnect. I know for a fact you can make this method replace your money the second you reconnect instead of waiting until the next round, I saw it on 3 different servers I played on today. Completely fair to get the money back you disconnected with, as long as its when you connect. So you still get the money from the round won or lost, no matter what amount you had. This is one thing that frustrated me while on the server.

Recap:

-voting for maps is stupid, especially 2 choices.
-round time is too long
-warmup period has no point and causes people to leave
-ingame stats need to be more comprehensive
-need more players
-admins need to not harass noobs "the bomb is the red dot on your radar"
-server needs to have a more welcoming atomosphere instead of just having players that play and don't communicate.


What I find funny oreo is that some of this stuff you were applauding in an earlier thread a few weeks ago. Oh well.

Anyways. I know some changes are forthcoming. Here's what's been altered:

- end of round voting now happens 2 min from end of the map instead of 3 min. Also, the number of choices just went from 2 to 4. The maps chosen have been 'relaxed', meaning that now only the very last map played wont be in the map vote, as opposed to the last four. Voting will still be and always will be an option.
- warmup period is now only 20 sec, and it's normal - the knife/nades only got real old real quick.
- round time is now 2 min even (before it was 2:30)
- inferno is out of rotation, but you can still vote for it manually.
- leaving the server and coming back - it still remembers your score, but not your cash. And email valve to fix the joining spec and back to get cash bug, maybe they'll listen to you, cuz they sure wont listen to us admins.

Now, to address a few of your other points:

- in-game stats: oreo, I coulda swore it was you who said you liked a cut-n-dry server without any extra crap. Why the 180 degree switch? Anyways - personally, I'd like to see players be able to pull up their own stats in game without spam, which mani will let me do on a third party app (hlstatsx), however I have had some issues gettin it to work. I will give it a go again soon, hopefully before i leave on my next training deployment.

- need more players: wow, you're a genius. I'm glad you pointed that out, or I never woulda ever thought of that ;) If you guys want more ppl to frequent the server, then how bout advertising it to your friends, the other gaming forums you all frequent, etc. The only place I've had time to advert the server on is my own website. In the past, this was never a problem, as everyone was bragging about the server everywhere (read: CS 1.x), so on to my next point...

- more welcoming atmosphere: I dunno what to say exactly on this one. I think benedict hit the nail on the head on this one, in that the community has become stale to a point. And a lot of ya are actually pretty rude to new ppl coming in. Not always, but a lot of times. Maybe we all (myself included) should cut out all of the 'pwned' and 'you suck' and 'hax' spam that we send to each other, both in chat and over voice. I could start enforcing this, but that also leaves a bad taste in my mouth - so in essence, how bout everyone try being a bit nicer to each other and new players coming aboard.

- admin 'harassing' noobs: sorry but you're wrong on this one - if you have a player thats new and doesnt know what to do, or an asshat that is camping T spawn with the bomb refusing to finish the objective, then my admins are well within their rights to msg that player to set em straight. That msg needs to be cordial, and not condesending... but they are still free to send it when they see fit.

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Postby Oreo » Apr 17th, 2006 at 5:37 am

Simple and concise without spam I like. Detailed results when you want to know your stats, I like. Seeing end of round stats = no. I can check my console for that.

I'll be clearer on what I meant for stats, detailed when you check them, no spam to other players. So if you *want* to know your stats you can get some decently detailed information, but you're not bombarded after every kill, the end of every round, or somebody else checking their stats.

Thank you on the other aspects, although the money thing when reconnecting only seems to be a problem on hardfought. The other server I play at that's local to me, replaced your money the instant you reconnected. So if you left with 10,550, when you reconnected (same round and still dead), you had 10550 already on your money, it didn't even say anything. Then when you lose or win the round you get 10550+the win or loss.

The way Hardfought seems to work is that you reconnect, you have $800, then when the round starts your money is reverted to the last known amount after the round money is awarded. So basically if you reconnect with $10, whether you win or lose the round, your money will be adjusted to $10 during the buy time. That's just whack! Having your money automatically readjusted instantly was nice and fair, is it possible for you to do this?

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Postby K2 » Apr 17th, 2006 at 7:44 am

Maybe on the cash item - it may be a bug with Mani, as that was the plugin that was handling that.

NOTE - I did find a lil script that runs offa Matties eventscripts that fixes the join spec/go back to your team and get 800 bucks bug. I may test it out here soon.

And the big thing - I got hlstatsx to work ;) More on that later...

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Postby Deleted User » Apr 17th, 2006 at 12:59 pm

As much as we all hate it, noobs like stats. And they like chat spam.
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Postby K2 » Apr 17th, 2006 at 5:59 pm

See hlstasx post.

Also, server is now 66 tickrate (checkin out some stuff), and playerlimit raised to 26 (24 visibile, 2 reserved).

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Postby Best_predator » Apr 17th, 2006 at 7:36 pm

Maps like contra, nuke, train, inferno, are best server killers. Cause i dont like those maps and i leave, and everyone is right behind me :P. They are simply not pub maps imo.
We should start adding new maps when the server becomes popular. For now id say office, d2, italy, and aztec or somethin are good maps to leave on. Or just the first 3.
Benedict, i scream that only to ppl i know :) or talk shit to me. I wouldnt say that to a stranger who would take offense to it. And i dont stay at spawn on d2 with an awp unless T's are dying in first 20 secs and i have no choice but to camp.
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Postby KillerClown » Apr 18th, 2006 at 4:59 am

imo Dust2 is just the basic map that most of the random people who join the server play....basically any other map will kill a server most of the time. KCC server atm, late nights runs dust2 with a like 2k minute map timer. if anything else gets voted up, the server dies.
Community really is the biggest factor, and the whole fact that HF has a mostly skilled community really doesn't help (unfortunately). Drives new players off quickly. :(

If you don't...you should run some redirectors, though it is kinda lame, it does help a lot. Sitting on KCC some nights few peeps will start their redirectors and our server fills up, as much as one can at night. But that will help to build more players, as it brings people in (even though they think they're joining a server with more players playing than there really is, thats the lame part). Make sure to have it spam enough 'Hardfought.org'. :P
I don't pay attention to that stuff myself but lots of newer players do.

Dust2, dust, italy, office....best maps to play to draw new players in. Aztec is...ok...but once it becomes awp fest...people leave. (Pretty much with any map, but aztec being not-quite-so-common makes it worse).
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Apr 18th, 2006 at 7:56 am

i think a dust2, italy, sut, office rotation would be tits.

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Postby Suck. » Apr 18th, 2006 at 9:59 am

PUPPYNotesâ„¢ wrote:
  • Player Behavior:
    1. spam ftw.
    2. alltalk while dead = good.
    3. Newcomers may not use mics, so use some text to include them.
    4. Say "hi" to new repeat customers.
    5. Admins need to work on being more outgoing again.
    6. Petty bickering and animosity... cut that shit out.
  • Maps:
    1. Pick a theme/style and stick to it. Change kills.
    2. Consider nixing end-of map votes & making normal votes harder.
    3. Else, move end of map vote to be decided in last seconds of map.
    4. Chapter 2 to follow.


Oreo wrote:The last one is really key. That's why hardfought used to be so fun, because everyone was friendly with each other and had fun and played together... lately people just go in and play and the talk is all game. You know what I mean?
    Player Behavior:
  1. The key ingredient that may be missing is my gratuitous annoying text binds and my homo-erotic admin binds. :)
  2. I think this was in the works -- not sure if it was ever implemented and if so, is still in place -- is alltalk while dead. I would think that this would help encourage a more friendly atmosphere, as long as people tone down the shit talking a bit (see # 6).
  3. One of the things that often separates newer players (or even just newcomers) is either lack of a mic or shyness about using one, so if it's not too much trouble, try to keep some of the server chatter via text.
  4. If you see a new repeat customer, try to make a point to say "what's up" to them, or to otherwise give them a nod in some way that makes them feel like they're not only welcome, but noticed and on their way to being part of something.
  5. Much of this stuff is especially true for admins, particularly just being outgoing and friendly, and keeping a good sense of humor. In addition to the friendly atmosphere and competitive gameplay, another similarity to Beer for Breakfast and a major factor in my adoption of Hardfought as a new home was that the admins seemed accessible, outgoing, and good-natured. Particularly, EatMoreLead, Sage^KS, and Maverick were cool to shoot the shit with, and were frequently on IRC as well.
    1. #hardfought has died since merging the clan channel to it. People don't talk in there, b/c it's obscured by all the spam, and I can't remember the last time someone came in to ask for an admin... Separate the two again imo.
    2. If anyone soils this thread with finger pointing at any admins, your entire post will be edited to "I am a poo poo head."
    3. BfB 4 life.
  6. There seems to be a good deal of animosity or outright hostility among some of our players. I've seen that shit clear out the server before, and it leaves an especially bad impression upon newcomers. Cut that shit out while you're in-game, whether via voice, chat, teamsay, ANYTHING. If you feel a compulsion to bicker with someone publicly, do it on IRC, or on the forums (if you can at least keep things moderately civil)... somewhere that won't create a venomous in-game atmosphere. Again, this is intended to be a general observation; please refrain from addressing specific instances or players in this thread so as not to derail it.
    Maps:
  1. We need to decide how we want the server, and stick to that plan. From past history, we've seen that people play on and come back to a server for what it is. We've tried the whole "Let's boost our activity by playing 24/7 Dust2, then we'll swap in some other maps once it's popular" thing. It doesn't work. Based on how Hardfought III was, it's quite possible to have a successful server that runs some "custom" maps like de_contra (as though this is a custom...) and have the level of teamwork for these maps to be enjoyable on a pub. If we want a server with limited choices, then go that route. If we'd like more flexibility, we have to go that route from the start.
  2. As much of a proponent as I have been for voting, we might consider nixing end of map votes, and make it harder for regular votes to pass. If we did this, we'd need to first make a record of how people react to certain maps with voting, then do the same once voting is removed. I believe that end-of-map votes, paradoxically, have hurt our ability to successfuly run anything that's not dust/dust2/office.
  3. Alternatively, I suggest moving map votes so that players have very little chance to see the outcome, such that the votes are talled perhaps 1 second before the map timer expires. This decreases the chance that players will throw a fit and leave to go find another server playing dust2 over the map that they picked.
  4. I had some other shit in mind, but I've run out of gas for this post, so I'll post it later if I still remember.


-Grant.

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Postby Deleted User » Apr 18th, 2006 at 10:06 am

I am a poo poo head.
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Apr 18th, 2006 at 10:26 am

Suck, I was going to ask for a condensed version of your last post until I realized that that probably WAS the condensed version. :shock:

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Postby Suck. » Apr 18th, 2006 at 10:40 am

rekloose-[PUPPY] wrote:Suck, I was going to ask for a condensed version of your last post until I realized that that probably WAS the condensed version. :shock:

PUPPYNotesâ„¢ added.


-Grant.

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Postby Best_predator » Apr 18th, 2006 at 10:45 am

Suck. wrote:[list=1]Maps:
[*]We need to decide how we want the server, and stick to that plan. From past history, we've seen that people play on and come back to a server for what it is. We've tried the whole "Let's boost our activity by playing 24/7 Dust2, then we'll swap in some other maps once it's popular" thing. It doesn't work. Based on how Hardfought III was, it's quite possible to have a successful server that runs some "custom" maps like de_contra (as though this is a custom...) and have the level of teamwork for these maps to be enjoyable on a pub. If we want a server with limited choices, then go that route. If we'd like more flexibility, we have to go that route from the start.


Dont compare what has been over a YEAR ago to now. It doesn't work that way anymore. Having custom maps like contra will simply not raise the server, period. It will kill it fast too UNLESS, this is a popular server. You won't achieve popularity by killing the server everyother map cause its a custom map. If we want a flexibility we gota work up to it and not start from it.
Sneaky bastard...
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Apr 18th, 2006 at 10:53 am

Suck. wrote:
rekloose-[PUPPY] wrote:Suck, I was going to ask for a condensed version of your last post until I realized that that probably WAS the condensed version. :shock:

PUPPYNotesâ„¢ added.


You make me feel warm n fuzzy inside :)

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Postby Suck. » Apr 18th, 2006 at 11:02 am

Best_predator wrote:
Suck. wrote:
    Maps:
  1. We need to decide how we want the server, and stick to that plan. From past history, we've seen that people play on and come back to a server for what it is. We've tried the whole "Let's boost our activity by playing 24/7 Dust2, then we'll swap in some other maps once it's popular" thing. It doesn't work. Based on how Hardfought III was, it's quite possible to have a successful server that runs some "custom" maps like de_contra (as though this is a custom...) and have the level of teamwork for these maps to be enjoyable on a pub. If we want a server with limited choices, then go that route. If we'd like more flexibility, we have to go that route from the start.

Dont compare what has been over a YEAR ago to now. It doesn't work that way anymore. Having custom maps like contra will simply not raise the server, period. It will kill it fast too UNLESS, this is a popular server. You won't achieve popularity by killing the server everyother map cause its a custom map. If we want a flexibility we gota work up to it and not start from it.

I'll compare whatever I damn well please. :) It does work that way. When you make changes to a server's formula, no matter how popular the server is, it will kill the server. Based on what you've said already, however, I was under the impression that you didn't want a pub that had flexibility. If we want a pub with customs/whatever, it has to be that way from the start, even if it's a lot harder to build up users (and it will be). The choice has to be made from the start.


-Grant.

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Postby K2 » Apr 18th, 2006 at 12:43 pm

Suck... pred has a point. When's the last time you played Grant? A few months ago? If it had been recently (read: since the new server came up) you'd know that alltalk while dead was already in place.

The way I am tweaking maps is subtle. Like taking out inferno and putting in italy. The stats generated are a huge help in determining what gets the most play. Map voting is going to stay in - say a map comes up that hardly anyone wants to play? And then they discover they cant vote to change it? Hello empty server.

Remind me to get mav and sage and a couple others back with admin access, i keep putting it off.

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Postby Deleted User » Apr 18th, 2006 at 6:46 pm

omg, you edited my post! bastard!
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Postby Catalyst22 » Apr 18th, 2006 at 9:05 pm

we're down, we're up, we're down, now we're back up..


Sounds like my sex life... Perhaps I don't "double my fun" when I slip myself some Rhohibnol after all.
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