The WWII Thread

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JayPhat
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The WWII Thread

Postby JayPhat » Sep 11th, 2006 at 11:46 pm

Thought this would be more appropriate.

So let me get this straight Pred. You are saying that without U.S. forces on the ground, Russia/UK would have won WWII all on their own. Are you fuckin kiddin me?

UK had not the resources to launch an invasion of France. Without the threat invasion of France, Hitler would have committed more forces to the Russian front and would have put up a sizeable defense of Germany, perhaps even pushed farther into Russian territory.

Please, let me hear your theory.
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Postby Deleted User » Sep 12th, 2006 at 12:12 am

While I never paid any attention to the previous discussions about WWII and how it would've gone without U.S. involvement, I will say one thing.
Typically, Europeans teach WWII era history far more accurately than we do.
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Sep 12th, 2006 at 12:39 am

jay, there're a few threads on this already with pred's views on them, why make him rehash them?

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Postby Best_predator » Sep 12th, 2006 at 12:49 am

Yes, US involvement defently helped and resources possibly played a crucial role. IN MY OPINION, would there be a d-day or not, Germany would've been defeated, so would Japan, but it would take longer. Germany already had almost all forces down east. In the end I'm glad it ended as it did, because we can never know how everything else would've played out if it didn't happen that way. We can only guess. I really do wish Russia would be better off though, after actually surviving/winning many underdoged wars but thanks to our HONEST politicians the country is in shit right now. But look at germany, france... sigh

Anyways, i aint gona go into details about this, so this is gona be my only post in this topic. Believe i've debated and researched all about this topic so much since i came to america im simply sick of it.

rekloose-[PUPPY] wrote:jay, there're a few threads on this already with pred's views on them, why make him rehash them?

In those threads im so misunderstood its not even funny. You and cat kept shoving words in my mouth...
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Sep 12th, 2006 at 1:24 am

Best_predator wrote:You and cat kept shoving words in my mouth...


I'm sure words aren't the only things that have been shoved in your mouth :twisted:

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Postby ender*(gayless) » Sep 12th, 2006 at 2:36 am

at best, russia would have had to win it on sheer manpower. america helped get the germans out of africa, then invaded italy...all of this before D-Day....american involvement didn't start w/ D-Day, so why even mention if there wasn't a D-Day...how about no north african counterpush to use german resources? how about no invasion of italy to turn the italian people against facism?


who in the hell knows what could have happened w/o US forces...but at the best, a russian europe, at the worst, germany pulls back to only hold all of europe...
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Postby Burzum » Sep 12th, 2006 at 8:32 am

I wish I knew enough to get in on this conversation :(
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Postby WidowMaker » Sep 12th, 2006 at 11:37 am

I would like to know who exactly would have stopped Japan in the Pacific front, if not the USA.

Also, the UK was getting bombarded nightly by German air raids. They were preparing for a land invasion, but allowed themselves to get sidetracked by invading Russia in the winter... classic mistake.

Does the US deserve all the credit for winning the war? Of course not, it was an Allied effort. Would the Allies have won the war without US involvement? I don't think so.


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Postby Best_predator » Sep 12th, 2006 at 1:30 pm

Okay this'll be my last post :)
WidowMaker wrote:Does the US deserve all the credit for winning the war? Of course not, it was an Allied effort. Would the Allies have won the war without US involvement? I don't think so.


If you US would completly avoid contact with other countries at the time, I highly doubt the Allies would succeed. That's what part people seem to misunderstand about my POV.
Wid, what always gets me riled up (im sure ud feel the same way if it was all reversed) is when people start saying America won WW2 FOR europe. Worst part they say that not just to try and get someone pissed off but they honostly believe that. Then they back it up with "America saw unjustice being done in europe and acted" roffle...
Anyways fuck this topic, its too dreadful.

P.S. You'd think invaders would learn not to fuck with russia in winter times lol...
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Postby Miracl3 » Sep 12th, 2006 at 1:59 pm

Best_predator wrote:
P.S. You'd think invaders would learn not to fuck with russia in winter times lol...

Smartest thing I've ever seen you post :) But that was funny. Fucking Russia had a women's sniper squad. First womens sniper quad ever.
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Postby Miracl3 » Sep 12th, 2006 at 2:04 pm

Burzum wrote:I wish I knew enough to get in on this conversation :(

Here a lil info from my other post.
lol.....history channel and discovery was airing WWII specials all the time around D-Day. And im guessing when they said U.S was ranked 3rd in military they were wrong. With Germany with the number 1 military i guess we weren't gonna be ass kicked after UK got raped. Oh yeah dont forget Japan invading Atou island in alaska. Japan had the top Naval Force. More airforce carriers then us. UK had the top air force and 2nd best military. Japan was 4th.
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Postby JayPhat » Sep 12th, 2006 at 2:08 pm

So let me get this straight. It goes:

Germany
UK
US
Japan

Military strength isn't measured by numbers. Perhaps thats why Russia isn't in there.
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Postby Miracl3 » Sep 12th, 2006 at 2:20 pm

JayPhat wrote:So let me get this straight. It goes:

Germany
UK
US
Japan

Military strength isn't measured by numbers. Perhaps thats why Russia isn't in there.

it was basically measured by the amount of Air,Naval and ground forces and how much more advanced they were. Russia has always been a country with not alotta money. And also, America DID win WW2 for WESTERN europe. Russia Did alotta its work in Africa and the countries right to the west of it from wut i can remember. But russia did pwn germany on the eastern front of europe more then us
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Postby Catharsys » Sep 12th, 2006 at 2:31 pm

What saved Britain was the fact that he Luftwaffe stopped attacking resources, radio towers, and airfields and instead went after cities.

Another reason why Germany was in eastern europe was to get oil which they lacked.

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Postby WidowMaker » Sep 12th, 2006 at 3:20 pm

If you US would completly avoid contact with other countries at the time, I highly doubt the Allies would succeed. That's what part people seem to misunderstand about my POV.
Wid, what always gets me riled up (im sure ud feel the same way if it was all reversed) is when people start saying America won WW2 FOR europe. Worst part they say that not just to try and get someone pissed off but they honostly believe that. Then they back it up with "America saw unjustice being done in europe and acted" roffle...


Well, of course. Anyone who was even half awake in History class knows that the US was trying to remain neutral (while still shipping supplies and resources to the Allies), until we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. That is what dragged us into the war in full force. If Japan had not done that, we may not have intervened in W. Europe until it was too late.

Russia was fighting Germany to a standstill on the E. front, but there is no denying that the W. front was all but lost.


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Postby Nad » Sep 12th, 2006 at 4:47 pm

I took American history post 1877, it was spring semester so we had black history month. Let me tell you, we touched on WW2 for MAYBE 2 weeks.
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Postby Best_predator » Sep 12th, 2006 at 5:32 pm

Okay okay, I just won't argue about the war but still post here :P.

Below is not boasting, just saying how much the schools in here and schools in russia teach about the subject for those people who like to go on about "IS THAT WHAT THEY TEACH IN RUSSIA?" bullshit.
Anyways, just for comparison an 8th grade required course in my school in russia was "History of Russia" The subject had 2 books called "Russia XX century". The books were about 300 pages long and quite compact. First book was pretty much all about WW2 and it touched a little bit on ww1 and revolution for tha but only for first few chapters. Rest was on WW2. Second book was from aafter WW2 and up to 90's. I don't know about schools up north but down in florida we had prolly like 4-5 chapters TOPS on ww2 and pretty much all multiple choice test except for like a couple small written extended responses. And that was in 10'th grade.
Let me tell you about the exams back there... you have 20 tickets each has 2 questions. You get one random ticket. The responses for those 40 questions cover the whole 2 books if responded perfectly. Its a verbal response so the judges are normally 2-3 teachers. Basicly if you don't know the booksi in and out, which had vast amounts of drawings of force movement, detailed battles etc. in its appendixes, you prolly won't pass the class.
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Postby Miracl3 » Sep 12th, 2006 at 5:45 pm

Best_predator wrote:Okay okay, I just won't argue about the war but still post here :P.

Below is not boasting, just saying how much the schools in here and schools in russia teach about the subject for those people who like to go on about "IS THAT WHAT THEY TEACH IN RUSSIA?" bullshit.
Anyways, just for comparison an 8th grade required course in my school in russia was "History of Russia" The subject had 2 books called "Russia XX century". The books were about 300 pages long and quite compact. First book was pretty much all about WW2 and it touched a little bit on ww1 and revolution for tha but only for first few chapters. Rest was on WW2. Second book was from aafter WW2 and up to 90's. I don't know about schools up north but down in florida we had prolly like 4-5 chapters TOPS on ww2 and pretty much all multiple choice test except for like a couple small written extended responses. And that was in 10'th grade.
Let me tell you about the exams back there... you have 20 tickets each has 2 questions. You get one random ticket. The responses for those 40 questions cover the whole 2 books if responded perfectly. Its a verbal response so the judges are normally 2-3 teachers. Basicly if you don't know the booksi in and out, which had vast amounts of drawings of force movement, detailed battles etc. in its appendixes, you prolly won't pass the class.

LoL nothing like that was intended to flame about ur schools. lol No shiiitttttttttt american education systems suck. Almost everyone except the private institutions and colleges
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Postby Jeng » Sep 12th, 2006 at 6:02 pm

Miracl3 wrote:LoL nothing like that was intended to flame about ur schools. lol No shiiitttttttttt american education systems suck. Almost everyone except the private institutions and colleges


Private institutions tend to suck pretty hard also. Most people have to wait till college to get away from their parents and start fucking up. Kids in private schools start early. The high school I went to in CT had quite a few people in their 5th year of high school that had done their other 4 years in private schools so I might be biased. Also my senior year we placed in the top 10 in all categories in the National Academic Decathlon, so figuring my public high school education might have been a bit better than most.
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Postby Miracl3 » Sep 12th, 2006 at 6:35 pm

Jeng wrote:
Miracl3 wrote:LoL nothing like that was intended to flame about ur schools. lol No shiiitttttttttt american education systems suck. Almost everyone except the private institutions and colleges


Private institutions tend to suck pretty hard also. Most people have to wait till college to get away from their parents and start fucking up. Kids in private schools start early. The high school I went to in CT had quite a few people in their 5th year of high school that had done their other 4 years in private schools so I might be biased. Also my senior year we placed in the top 10 in all categories in the National Academic Decathlon, so figuring my public high school education might have been a bit better than most.
Yes but the private institutions usually have a higher percentage of studa\ent who further their education by college or some other kind of schooling
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Postby ender*(gayless) » Sep 12th, 2006 at 7:54 pm

knowing troop movements seems rather pointless to teach at a non-military academy.


i mean, what's there really to teach about the eastern front?

about a bajillion russians ran in the direction of frozen germans and eventually won

(sarcasm)
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Postby Best_predator » Sep 12th, 2006 at 9:17 pm

Thats not really what happened but close. It was more like front line just backed leaving some people to die.
Anyway, yea there isn't really a point in teaching all that crap that you prolly won't ever use. It's not about what they teach you but the fact that you are learning to learn. Its same thing as all the bs you take as gen-ed, you prolly won't ever use any of that shit but you spent time learning it. Thus, you are now more trained to learn something relevant to your major. But thats just my opinion :).
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Postby JayPhat » Sep 12th, 2006 at 9:36 pm

Best_predator wrote:Thats not really what happened but close. It was more like front line just backed leaving some people to die.


Is this in addition to the ones who were shot for turning around and running back?
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Postby Mouser » Sep 12th, 2006 at 10:23 pm

WidowMaker wrote:but allowed themselves to get sidetracked by invading Russia in the winter... classic mistake.
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Yeah, just this morning, I was going to go and get my oil changed but I got distracted and ended up invading Russia.

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Postby Jeng » Sep 12th, 2006 at 10:50 pm

Miracl3 wrote:Yes but the private institutions usually have a higher percentage of studa\ent who further their education by college or some other kind of schooling


Your point being that those with more opportunities tend to take advantage of them??

You could also say that those who grow up in a higher income bracket tend to further their education by college or some other kind of schooling. I don't see how private institutions have any bearing on that.
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