Should men have the "right to choose"?

Anything and everything goes here... post away!

Moderators: EatMoreLead, Nad, Suck.

User avatar
WidowMaker
Benefactor
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sep 15th, 2002 at 7:49 pm

Should men have the "right to choose"?

Postby WidowMaker » Mar 9th, 2006 at 11:52 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/08/fathe ... index.html

Morally, I would support the child, without question.

Legally though, I think there is certainly a double-standard. Women have the right to choose to kill or keep the baby, and there is nothing the man can do about it. They have no rights to affect "her" decision. If the man wants the child, but the woman doesn't, she gets to have an abortion. If the man wants an abortion, and the woman wants to keep it, she gets to keep it.

Why shouldn't the man have the "right to choose" whether or not he wants to be part of the child's life and help support it. The man did not want the child, why should he have to bear the financial pain of helping to raise it when he wants nothing to do with it?

IMO, if women want the "right to choose" whether or not to have the child, then men should also have the "right to choose" whether or not they help support the child.

Again, regardless of the law, I think the man should support the child, but there is a valid point on the legal double standard.


-Wid
- The AWP god formerly known as 'WidowMaker' [Retired]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-Game Designer
-Retro Studios - www.retrostudios.com
-If the next Metroid sucks, you will know who to blame.

User avatar
Catalyst22
Elite Member
Posts: 3606
Joined: Sep 30th, 2004 at 8:21 pm

Postby Catalyst22 » Mar 10th, 2006 at 12:22 am

There are alot of double standards and they are all stacked against men. The child support I pay is wasted on my exwife. She spends the majority of the money on herself and uses her parents money to pay the bills. I buy shoes and clothes for the kids because the money mysteriously isn't enough about time for school.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

User avatar
WidowMaker
Benefactor
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sep 15th, 2002 at 7:49 pm

Postby WidowMaker » Mar 10th, 2006 at 1:40 am

I was just watching a debate over this topic between one of the Men's Rights representatives and a woman (didnt catch what her affiliation was). What I found classic was when asked if the man should have the right to choose, she said if the man doesnt want a child, he should use protection, or not have sex at all. Sound familiar?

Looks like they want to have their cake and eat it too.


-Wid
- The AWP god formerly known as 'WidowMaker' [Retired]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

-Game Designer

-Retro Studios - www.retrostudios.com

-If the next Metroid sucks, you will know who to blame.

User avatar
Jennthrotull
K2's better half
Posts: 135
Joined: Jan 25th, 2006 at 12:43 am

Postby Jennthrotull » Mar 10th, 2006 at 3:00 am

It's really the right, moral, mature and upstanding thing to do. Any Christian could figure that out.[/quote]

Um...why is financially supporting a child a Christian issue? To me it is a matter of personal responsibility and integrity - having sex brings certain responsibilities and risks, and if you are not prepared to fully accept the consequences of your decisions then you should keep it in your pants.

That being said, I am definitely for protecting fathers from crazy girls. It is one thing if a girl gets pregnant accidently, it is totally another bag of worms when it is on purpose or the pregnancy is used in a manipulative way.

I have a friend who got completely screwed over in the child support department. When he and his wife divorced, she sued for child support for their 3 year old daughter. He agreed, and the court set the amount. But when he tried to get visitation she mentioned that the girl wasn't his - blood tests confirmed it. So the judge denied visitation - but refused to overturn the child support decision, stating that since my friend thought the kid was his, and raised her for 3 years, and was willing to pay support when he thought she was his, he still is responsible for paying up. Six years later he is still fighting this ruling.


Edit by Nad: Deleted double post.

User avatar
Deleted User
*poof*
Posts: 7507
Joined: Jul 13th, 2006 at 3:41 am

Postby Deleted User » Mar 10th, 2006 at 4:42 am

i know a guy who's psyco GF SAID she was on the pill when she wasn't, cuz she wanted a baby to make him stay with her. and it certainly worked...

anywho, i'll stick to what "seems fair" as apposed to what is morally right and whatnot. sure the chick has to carry it for 9 months and deliver it, but that's only 9 months, c'mon, you think cuz you did that you deserve child support for the next decade or so?

if a guy wants a kid and the chick doesn't she can kill it. that's fucked up. if a guy doesn't want a kid and the chick does, he has to pay for it. that's fucked up. it seems fair that a guy should be able to say hey, i don't want it, if you want it, you pay for it. although i admit that could be exploited by every guy in the world who knows his girl absolutely doesn't wanna kill her baby.
I've been deleted!!

User avatar
ender*(gayless)
Senior Member
Posts: 504
Joined: Jan 19th, 2005 at 9:36 am

Postby ender*(gayless) » Mar 10th, 2006 at 6:45 am

Derfel wrote:I disagree with a man's "right to choose" for an abortion. Pregnancy is primarily a female function, so there can be no moral or legal way you could have a man force a woman to have an abortion or not have an abortion.



the act of being pregnant is of course female...but it wouldn't happen without males...just because the girl carries it doesn't mean sperm is any less important. whoever wants the child should be able to have it, if the other party is not interested in being a parent then they should not be bound to it...



it's way too complicated to get way into this late at night.
ender will save us all

User avatar
b0ba
Senior Member
Posts: 363
Joined: Sep 15th, 2002 at 10:17 am

Postby b0ba » Mar 10th, 2006 at 8:47 am

condoms suck....

User avatar
MeMGhost
Senior Member
Posts: 332
Joined: Sep 15th, 2002 at 7:07 pm

Postby MeMGhost » Mar 10th, 2006 at 9:09 am

condoms suck....


Not nearly as bad as having a kid with some random woman ... or some crazy woman.

MeM

User avatar
Burzum
Benefactor
Posts: 4291
Joined: Oct 21st, 2004 at 1:05 pm

Postby Burzum » Mar 10th, 2006 at 9:13 am

I think men need to have the right to kill or keep the woman. That solves much more problems.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

User avatar
rekloose-[PUPPY]
Elite Member
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sep 14th, 2002 at 11:38 pm

Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Mar 10th, 2006 at 9:27 am

MeMGhost wrote:
condoms suck....


Not nearly as bad as having a kid with some random woman ... or some crazy woman.

MeM


meh. just come ON her and not IN her.

User avatar
rekloose-[PUPPY]
Elite Member
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sep 14th, 2002 at 11:38 pm

Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Mar 10th, 2006 at 9:28 am

b4nshee wrote:i know a guy who's psyco GF SAID she was on the pill when she wasn't, cuz she wanted a baby to make him stay with her. and it certainly worked...


Push the bitch down a flight of stairs. Insta-Abortion!

User avatar
Keyser Soze
The Devil
Posts: 1403
Joined: Jan 9th, 2005 at 12:37 am

Postby Keyser Soze » Mar 10th, 2006 at 9:40 am

rekloose-[PUPPY] wrote:
b4nshee wrote:i know a guy who's psyco GF SAID she was on the pill when she wasn't, cuz she wanted a baby to make him stay with her. and it certainly worked...


Push the bitch down a flight of stairs. Insta-Abortion!


Hahahah! But yeah, b4nshee prettt much summed it up.

User avatar
Catalyst22
Elite Member
Posts: 3606
Joined: Sep 30th, 2004 at 8:21 pm

Postby Catalyst22 » Mar 10th, 2006 at 9:41 am

Look - I agree that it isn't fair for us males to have to deal with responsibility different than our female counterparts can.


agree

But I'm arguing that legally, there's no way you can force a woman to term with a child,

disagree. Legally you can force them to do this. Its "physically" that becomes a problem. What punishment would there be for a woman who aborted when ordered by law to come to term. That is the only problem and its an easy problem to solve with the punishment of "murder" for any woman who aborts against a court order. It would also require an expedient court and that is where the problem would be. 3 months or so to decide the fate of a child.

and that many more children in the world would get royally screwed over if fathers could just say "No Money For YOU!"


Children are getting screwed over right now by many women because they want full custody just to get the money. Many other women get pregnant in order to save a relationship or just to get 18 years of money for no work. Raising a child is work, but neglecting your children while doing so is hardly considered work.

Men have a few options for birth control up our sleeves as well, and if you want to make sure you aren't having kids, either putting some rubber between you and that uterus or undergoing a little (reversible) snip is the best course of action.


Agree.




I pay $600 a month in child support. I have my kids Fri, Sat, and Sunday of every week. I get my kids for a week during spring break, every other holiday, and 4 weeks during the summer. I also get the kids anytime my ex wants to go out and do something during the week. Am I being taken advantage of? hell yes I am. Am I going to give up seeing my kids because of it? Hell no.

I get the kids 191 days a year and I don't get my kids for 174 days a year and I pay $600 a month to her. I pay for the kids clothes because my ex has refused to get a job since we have been seperated/divorced going on 3 years now. There is no way to legally force her to use the child support money that I give her on the kids. So when you say "there is no way to legally force a woman to carry a child to term" I have to say that we are making ways in other areas so why can't we make a way in this one?

The whole thing pisses me off.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

User avatar
Kahuna Mas
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Feb 11th, 2004 at 9:57 am

Postby Kahuna Mas » Mar 10th, 2006 at 9:49 am

I say men should have the right to choose to keep the baby. If they want it, have the doctors take the fetus out of the woman and put it in the guys gut.

Problem solved.

Its like the guy's coming home expecting a nice home cooked meal made by someone else.

User avatar
Burzum
Benefactor
Posts: 4291
Joined: Oct 21st, 2004 at 1:05 pm

Postby Burzum » Mar 10th, 2006 at 11:23 am

Kahuna Mas wrote:I say men should have the right to choose to keep the baby. If they want it, have the doctors take the fetus out of the woman and put it in the guys gut.

Problem solved.

Its like the guy's coming home expecting a nice home cooked meal made by someone else.

:shock: That is quite possibly the most disturbing thing you've ever said.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

User avatar
Kahuna Mas
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Feb 11th, 2004 at 9:57 am

Postby Kahuna Mas » Mar 10th, 2006 at 11:35 am

Sorry I forgot to give my lots-o-sarcasm warning.

At the end of the day, the woman is the only person who can carry the child and the only one who has the burden for 9 months. Its very easy for this guy to say she should do this, when he doesn't have to do anything other than show up 9 months later.

My point was that the father isn't the father until HE can take care of it.

User avatar
WidowMaker
Benefactor
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sep 15th, 2002 at 7:49 pm

Postby WidowMaker » Mar 10th, 2006 at 11:43 am

Just because a woman carries a child for 9 months doesn't make her a "mother" either.


-Wid
- The AWP god formerly known as 'WidowMaker' [Retired]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

-Game Designer

-Retro Studios - www.retrostudios.com

-If the next Metroid sucks, you will know who to blame.

User avatar
Kahuna Mas
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Feb 11th, 2004 at 9:57 am

Postby Kahuna Mas » Mar 10th, 2006 at 11:47 am

Considering that the fetus cannot survive without her, I think it does. Daddy-o can be off in houston stealing front liscense plates to fashion a jet engine for a VW bug. His attendance is not needed.

Rice or not.

User avatar
WidowMaker
Benefactor
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sep 15th, 2002 at 7:49 pm

Postby WidowMaker » Mar 10th, 2006 at 11:50 am

No, it doesn't. She can abandon the child as easily as the father did. Carrying the child for 9 months merely makes the woman a 'host'. Caring for, supporting, and loving the child after it is born makes the woman a 'mother'.

Likewise, simply putting some sperm into a woman does not make a man a 'father'. Taking care of the child makes the man a 'father'.


-Wid
- The AWP god formerly known as 'WidowMaker' [Retired]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

-Game Designer

-Retro Studios - www.retrostudios.com

-If the next Metroid sucks, you will know who to blame.

User avatar
Nad
Moderator
Posts: 2481
Joined: Sep 15th, 2002 at 8:15 am

Postby Nad » Mar 10th, 2006 at 11:54 am

I agree with you there Kahuna.

Also, if you have not been with a woman carrying a child to term, you should keep your mouth shut on the subject. Trust me, what(most) they go thru is far worse than paying a few hundred bucks a month in child support.

Cata, i feel for you, but you know as well as i do, if you had those kids all month it would cost well over 600 bucks more. Not saying its fair, cause i would rather spend more and see my kids. IMO, they need to reform child support laws, limiting what the receiving parent can spend it on.

You cannot make a woman carry a baby to term, and you cannot make a woman have an abortion. Its a conflict of beliefs, and most(for lack of a better term) believers cannot abort because it is against their religion, and the law cannot force them to do it.

With all that said, i think there should be a "legal" choice. If the woman wants it, but the man does not, she should have to waive all rights to alimony/child support if she decides to carry it to term and raise the child. It would be tough, but if she really wants that child, she will find a way to provide for it. As for forcing a woman to carry it to term, as much as i would love to see that law, it isnt fair. IF you fuck around and stick your dick off in a woman and get her preggers, you do not have the right to make her have that baby. IF you really want a kid, either get married, adopt, or if you are really desperate, im sure you can find someone willing to carry that baby for you.
Hardfought Forum/Game Server Admin and all around board troll
Image

User avatar
Kahuna Mas
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Feb 11th, 2004 at 9:57 am

Postby Kahuna Mas » Mar 10th, 2006 at 11:55 am

OK Sigourney Weaver, we'll call her the "host". :twisted:

Point is, as the only host in the world for that "seed", its absurd to think that anyone has ownership over what shes "incubating" other than her.

As for his sperm, he lost ownership when he handed it over to her. Possesion is 9/10ths of the law :wink:

User avatar
WidowMaker
Benefactor
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sep 15th, 2002 at 7:49 pm

Postby WidowMaker » Mar 10th, 2006 at 12:29 pm

Hey that's fine, if the woman wants to claim "ownership" of the baby, then the man should not be obligated legally to support it.


-Wid
- The AWP god formerly known as 'WidowMaker' [Retired]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

-Game Designer

-Retro Studios - www.retrostudios.com

-If the next Metroid sucks, you will know who to blame.

User avatar
Kahuna Mas
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Feb 11th, 2004 at 9:57 am

Postby Kahuna Mas » Mar 10th, 2006 at 12:44 pm

Totally agree on that point Wid. If a guy does not want the child born and the mother does, he should have a legal out that removes total responsibility from him including visitation, etc.

As long as the decision is the woman's (which I believe to be hers) then the male species should legally be given some protection against the decisionb made by the female.

My point was that men should not have the choice when it comes to the womans body. Right now its the other side of the equation that is missing.

User avatar
K2
Administrator
Posts: 7114
Joined: Sep 14th, 2002 at 6:33 am

Postby K2 » Mar 10th, 2006 at 1:41 pm

rekloose-[PUPPY] wrote:
MeMGhost wrote:
condoms suck....


Not nearly as bad as having a kid with some random woman ... or some crazy woman.

MeM


meh. just come ON her and not IN her.


Blow jobs for the win ;)

User avatar
Keyser Soze
The Devil
Posts: 1403
Joined: Jan 9th, 2005 at 12:37 am

Postby Keyser Soze » Mar 10th, 2006 at 2:51 pm

That's why you always go Anal. Ask her if she wants about 15 minutes of pain, or 9 months.. plus the 18 years to raise the kid.
Image
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing.


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests