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eulogy
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Postby eulogy » Dec 1st, 2005 at 11:45 am

Burzum wrote:
Derfel wrote:
EatMoreLead wrote:Derf - if you suddenly found God, I'd be nicer to you. :)


In my universe, I AM God...


To bad we're in MY universe. To me, you're that one guy who's name is similar to teufel with the devil avatar who makes the liberal posts and who just might be Canadian.


Unfortunately, I can verify Teufel is *not* Canadian. I work with him and his brother
(Ratlin).

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

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Kahuna Mas
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Postby Kahuna Mas » Dec 1st, 2005 at 12:00 pm

PumpActionJackson wrote:
Kahuna Mas wrote:
PumpActionJackson wrote:
My opinion of it is: He does alot more good alive than he does dead, not only does it cost less as alot of you have stated, but as Suck stated its good that there is someone that has been through (hell started) all the gang shit, that is willing to speak out and tell kids not to go down that path. For god's sakes the guy writes childrens books from his cell...



Yeah he does a lot more good than evil. Maybe cause it wasn't your mom, dad, brother or sister that he killed. As for good deeds there are enough people in this world who DIDN"T MURDER ANYONE that can compensate for the lack of this guys existence.

My question is this. Had he not gotten caught, would he be writing kids books and preaching to the world today?

Don't reward this guy for turning his life around. Reward the police for stopping him and the prison for changing him.

Then you reward the guy who pushes the button for TRULY making the world a better place.


I never said he does alot more good than evil. What I meant by that statement was killing him does not make everything ok again, it's not gonna bring any of the people that he killed/hurt back. At least if he is alive he can try to deter kid's these day's from making the same mistakes he did, and yes there are many good people out there doing very good deeds. I just think it has a little more credibility coming from someone who has lived that lifestyle, rather than from someone who has never walked in those shoes. I mean would you rather get sex advice from Ron Jeremy or Keyser Soze??


Yeah the lesson that he is teaching is that murder basically has no consequense. Now if the juvenile deliquents showed up for his class and they got to stare at his bloated rotting corpse for 15 minutes, I think that would be one lesson learned.

If you want to use an analogy, don't use Ron Jeremy, use John Wayne Bobbit.

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PumpActionJackson
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Postby PumpActionJackson » Dec 1st, 2005 at 12:32 pm

Kahuna Mas wrote:
PumpActionJackson wrote:
Kahuna Mas wrote:
PumpActionJackson wrote:
My opinion of it is: He does alot more good alive than he does dead, not only does it cost less as alot of you have stated, but as Suck stated its good that there is someone that has been through (hell started) all the gang shit, that is willing to speak out and tell kids not to go down that path. For god's sakes the guy writes childrens books from his cell...



Yeah he does a lot more good than evil. Maybe cause it wasn't your mom, dad, brother or sister that he killed. As for good deeds there are enough people in this world who DIDN"T MURDER ANYONE that can compensate for the lack of this guys existence.

My question is this. Had he not gotten caught, would he be writing kids books and preaching to the world today?

Don't reward this guy for turning his life around. Reward the police for stopping him and the prison for changing him.

Then you reward the guy who pushes the button for TRULY making the world a better place.


I never said he does alot more good than evil. What I meant by that statement was killing him does not make everything ok again, it's not gonna bring any of the people that he killed/hurt back. At least if he is alive he can try to deter kid's these day's from making the same mistakes he did, and yes there are many good people out there doing very good deeds. I just think it has a little more credibility coming from someone who has lived that lifestyle, rather than from someone who has never walked in those shoes. I mean would you rather get sex advice from Ron Jeremy or Keyser Soze??


Yeah the lesson that he is teaching is that murder basically has no consequense. Now if the juvenile deliquents showed up for his class and they got to stare at his bloated rotting corpse for 15 minutes, I think that would be one lesson learned.

If you want to use an analogy, don't use Ron Jeremy, use John Wayne Bobbit.


Apparently life in prison is not a consequence anymore? Apparently more than half the people that have ever been convicted of murder/robbery/selling drugs are going unpunished. And as far as showing kids his rotting corpse, I personally dont think scarring a kid for life is the best way to go about helping them but hey thats just me.
You might recognize me. I am the black guy from PREDATOR.

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Postby Keyser Soze » Dec 1st, 2005 at 12:38 pm

PumpActionJackson wrote:
Kahuna Mas wrote:
PumpActionJackson wrote:
My opinion of it is: He does alot more good alive than he does dead, not only does it cost less as alot of you have stated, but as Suck stated its good that there is someone that has been through (hell started) all the gang shit, that is willing to speak out and tell kids not to go down that path. For god's sakes the guy writes childrens books from his cell...



Yeah he does a lot more good than evil. Maybe cause it wasn't your mom, dad, brother or sister that he killed. As for good deeds there are enough people in this world who DIDN"T MURDER ANYONE that can compensate for the lack of this guys existence.

My question is this. Had he not gotten caught, would he be writing kids books and preaching to the world today?

Don't reward this guy for turning his life around. Reward the police for stopping him and the prison for changing him.

Then you reward the guy who pushes the button for TRULY making the world a better place.


I never said he does alot more good than evil. What I meant by that statement was killing him does not make everything ok again, it's not gonna bring any of the people that he killed/hurt back. At least if he is alive he can try to deter kid's these day's from making the same mistakes he did, and yes there are many good people out there doing very good deeds. I just think it has a little more credibility coming from someone who has lived that lifestyle, rather than from someone who has never walked in those shoes. I mean would you rather get sex advice from Ron Jeremy or Keyser Soze??


I'd be surprised if you knew what you had a penis for Pump.

Anyway, in my opinion, both Suck and puppy have a point, Suck's point that he could be a lesson since he'd been to that life and back and that would add to the impact since he had done it himself, on the other hand, puppy also has a point, he may just be saying all that to stay alive and run the whole scene from behind bars.

I say kill him, there's many others criminals gone straight that people can learn from, no reason taking a risk that this guy is just lying to stay alive.
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EatMoreLead
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Postby EatMoreLead » Dec 1st, 2005 at 12:56 pm

Anybody who is in favor of swift death penalty without proper appeals is:

1. Not Christian - Jesus taught us that righteousness and justice go hand in hand
2. Not a supporter of the Constitution - which clearly spells out the right to a fair trial and rules of search / seizure

Anybody who is in favor of the death penalty even with lengthy appeals is:

1. Of the mind that human life is worthless
2. Playing God
3. Not fiscally intelligent
EatMoreLead aka EML

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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Dec 1st, 2005 at 12:59 pm

Your statements are complete BS EML. I will defend your right to make BS statements, but they are still BS :P

http://www.religioustolerance.org/john_8.htm (hence the confusion)


Acts 6:8 - 7:60 Stephen, a Christian, was found guilty of blasphemy and stoned to death.
Romans 13:1-5 Paul instructs Christians to submit themselves to the authority of the state, because "The authorities that exist have been established by God." Referring to the authorities, Paul writes in Verse 4: "For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." The reference to "sword" might be interpreted literally (to refer to capital punishment) or symbolically (to refer to the power of the state to punish wrongdoers).


Matthew 5:21-22: Jesus is recorded as saying: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment..." This passage discusses one person murdering -- and even being angry with -- another person. It does not appear to impact on the state execution of a convicted criminal. Presumably, Jesus approved of state executions, because he upheld the validity of the Mosaic law: not even one minor point was to be ignored. For example, he is recorded as having said in:

Matthew 5:18-19: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Luke 16:17: "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."


Turning the Other Cheek, Letting God Vindicate Us (5:39)

As in much of Jesus' teaching, pressing his illustration the wrong way may obscure his point. In fact, this would read Scripture the very way he was warning against: if someone hits us in the nose, or has already struck us on both cheeks, are we finally free to hit back? Jesus gives us a radical example so we will avoid retaliation, not so we will explore the limits of his example (see Tannehill 1975:73). A backhanded blow to the right cheek did not imply shattered teeth (tooth for tooth was a separate statement); it was an insult, the severest public affront to a person's dignity (Lam 3:30; Jeremias 1963:28 and 1971:239). God's prophets sometimes suffered such ill-treatment (1 Kings 22:24; Is 50:6). Yet though this was more an affront to honor, a challenge, than a physical injury, ancient societies typically provided legal recourse for this offense within the lex talionis regulations (Pritchard 1955:163, 175; see also Gaius Inst. 3.220).


In the case of an offense to our personal dignity, Jesus not only warns us not to avenge our honor by retaliating but suggests that we indulge the offender further. By freely offering our other cheek, we show that those who are secure in their status before God do not value human honor. Indeed, in some sense we practice resistance by showing our contempt for the value of our insulter's (and perhaps the onlookers') opinions! Because we value God's honor rather than our own (Mt 5:16; 6:1-18), because our very lives become forfeit to us when we begin to follow Jesus Christ (16:24-27), we have no honor of our own to lose. In this way we testify to those who insult us of a higher allegiance of which they should take notice.
Legal Nonresistance (5:40)

Rather than trying to get an inner garment back by legal recourse, one should relinquish the outer one too! If taken literally, this practice would quickly lead to nudity (see also Stein 1978:10), an intolerable dishonor in Palestinian Jewish society (for example, Jub. 7:8-10, 20; 1QS 7.12). Many peasants (at least in poorer areas like Egypt) had only one outer cloak and pursued whatever legal recourse necessary to get it back if it was seized (CPJ 1:239-40, 129.5). Because the outer cloak doubled as a poor man's bedding, biblical law permitted no one to take it, even as a pledge overnight (Ex 22:26-27; Deut 24:12-13). Thus Jesus demands that we surrender the very possession the law explicitly protects from legal seizure (Guelich 1982:222). To force his hearers to think, then, Jesus provides a shockingly graphic, almost humorous illustration of what he means by nonresistance. His hearers value honor and things more than they value the kingdom.

“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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EatMoreLead
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Postby EatMoreLead » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:00 pm

lol - I meant to say IMHO :)
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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:10 pm

For someone who despises the literal translation of the Bible you are using it in a completely literal sense.

Read my edit above.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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PumpActionJackson
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Postby PumpActionJackson » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:10 pm

Keyser Soze wrote:I'd be surprised if you knew what you had a penis for Pump.


Just one of the many uses I have for my penis.:wink:

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Yea my paint skills are fucking l337 I know, know need to give me props. :lol:
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Kahuna Mas
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Postby Kahuna Mas » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:13 pm

EatMoreLead wrote:Anybody who is in favor of swift death penalty without proper appeals is:

1. Not Christian - Jesus taught us that righteousness and justice go hand in hand
2. Not a supporter of the Constitution - which clearly spells out the right to a fair trial and rules of search / seizure

Anybody who is in favor of the death penalty even with lengthy appeals is:

1. Of the mind that human life is worthless
2. Playing God
3. Not fiscally intelligent


If God didn't want the death penalty, it wouldn't exist.

Secondly, a very large amount of the murder in the history of mankind has been made in the name of God irregardless of the religion. Man of those under the guise of "righteousness and justice go hand in hand.

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Postby Phoenix » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:13 pm

That is so wrong pump.
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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:19 pm

If God didn't want the death penalty, it wouldn't exist.


Not true if you are utlizing the Christian God.

God lets man screw up all the time. Its all thru the Bible.

Paul on the Death Penalty?
Paul’s Theological Reflections on Jesus’ Execution
Atonement Theology: See Galatians 3:13-14, Romans 3: 23-27, 5:1-11, Colossians 2:13-15. In these passages Jesus takes the penalty due to us because of our sin which separated us from (made us enemies of) God. The resurrection over turns the sin imposed death penalty. As we are forgiven by God, so too we are to forgive others.


Jesus willingly accepts the death penalty for the redemption of the sins of mankind. Does he say that it is wrong to have a death penalty? You would think given his track record that this would be an excellent time for him to point out the falacy of the death penalty... but he doesn't. Some times what is left out of the Bible is just as important as what is put in. Some people understand this and some do not. The more you read the Bible (and the history/theology behind each verse) the more you understand the setup for each verse. If there is a place for a verse to be setup and none is forthcoming, then you need to think about what is NOT being said and WHY.

The resurrection over turns the sin imposed death penalty. As we are forgiven by God, so too we are to forgive others.
Death penalties imposed by Church law. Not death penalties imposed by Gub'ments.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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EatMoreLead
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Postby EatMoreLead » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:20 pm

Matthew 5:18-19: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."


Ya know catalyst, you seem to use specific quotes about the OT law often. I wonder if you even realize what Jesus was talking about? Try reading all of Matthew and take the comments in the context of the times and what he is saying. When Jesus talks about how we have to be more righteous than the parasises, he is shedding light on the fact that there is NOTHING we can do to get into heaven. Getting into heaven is only by the grace of God - period.

Anyway, I find it hard to understand how anybody who seriously studies the life and teachings of Jesus would be in favor of the death penalty. It goes against the 2nd biggest theme and lesson of tolerance and love (the first being dont worship $$).
EatMoreLead aka EML

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PumpActionJackson
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Postby PumpActionJackson » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:22 pm

NOOOO OUR THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY JESUS!!!! :P
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EatMoreLead
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Postby EatMoreLead » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:23 pm

Catalyst22 wrote:
If God didn't want the death penalty, it wouldn't exist.


Not true if you are utlizing the Christian God.

God lets man screw up all the time. Its all thru the Bible.

Paul on the Death Penalty?
Paul’s Theological Reflections on Jesus’ Execution
Atonement Theology: See Galatians 3:13-14, Romans 3: 23-27, 5:1-11, Colossians 2:13-15. In these passages Jesus takes the penalty due to us because of our sin which separated us from (made us enemies of) God. The resurrection over turns the sin imposed death penalty. As we are forgiven by God, so too we are to forgive others.


Jesus willingly accepts the death penalty for the redemption of the sins of mankind. Does he say that it is wrong to have a death penalty? You would think given his track record that this would be an excellent time for him to point out the falacy of the death penalty... but he doesn't. Some times what is left out of the Bible is just as important as what is put in. Some people understand this and some do not. The more you read the Bible (and the history/theology behind each verse) the more you understand the setup for each verse. If there is a place for a verse to be setup and none is forthcoming, then you need to think about what is NOT being said and WHY.

The resurrection over turns the sin imposed death penalty. As we are forgiven by God, so too we are to forgive others.
Death penalties imposed by Church law. Not death penalties imposed by Gub'ments.


actually there is evidence that Jesus was not a big fan of his death on the cross. "why have you forsaken me" Also, you are assuming, which I will grant that 95% of Christians do, that Jesus somehow had to die for our sins. That is total poop. God has the power to forgive us with or without anybody dying on the cross. To focus on the atonement theory is to ignore the teachings and lessons of how to live on earth in step with God.
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Phoenix
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Postby Phoenix » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:24 pm

Stop quoting the Bible and start commenting on pumps photoshop job.
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Kahuna Mas
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Postby Kahuna Mas » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:33 pm

If God is in fact perfect, why would he create beings "in his own image" who have to earn his love through devotion. He would not need this reassurance.

The question now: Does our imperfect existence make God imperfect? Or nonexistent?

If god is in fact perfect, how do we know (as inferior beings) that a perfect being is not malicious.

Maybe we are living in the heaven of a perfectly malicious being now.

PS- I have my own opinions but simply ask these questions as IMHO its our responsibility.

Food for thought-
What if the real GOD made a smaller mean god who then created us. The big god then made it a test for us to discover that the god who created us was in fact a mean god and we should continue to question that one until we find the top god.

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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:33 pm

EatMoreLead wrote:
Matthew 5:18-19: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."


Ya know catalyst, you seem to use specific quotes about the OT law often. I wonder if you even realize what Jesus was talking about? Try reading all of Matthew and take the comments in the context of the times and what he is saying. When Jesus talks about how we have to be more righteous than the parasises, he is shedding light on the fact that there is NOTHING we can do to get into heaven. Getting into heaven is only by the grace of God - period.

Anyway, I find it hard to understand how anybody who seriously studies the life and teachings of Jesus would be in favor of the death penalty. It goes against the 2nd biggest theme and lesson of tolerance and love (the first being dont worship $$).


When did the book of Mathew get moved into the Old Testament?

Old Testament
Genesis - Gen Exodus - Ex
Leviticus - Lev Numbers - Num
Deuteronomy - Deut Joshua - Josh
Judges - Judg Ruth - Ruth
1 Samuel - 1 Sam 2 Samuel - 2 Sam
1 Kings - 1 Kings 2 Kings - 2 Kings
1 Chronicles - 1 Chr 2 Chronicles - 2 Chr
Ezra - Ezra Nehemiah - Neh
Tobit - Tob Judith - Jdt
Esther - Esth 1 Maccabees - 1 Macc
2 Maccabees - 2 Macc Job - Job
Psalms - Ps Proverbs - Prov
Ecclesiastes - Ecc1 Song of Solomon - Song
Canticles - Cant Wisdom - Wis
Sirach - Sir Isaiah - Isa
Jeremiah - Jer Lamentations - Lam
Baruch - Bar Ezekial - Ezek
Daniel - Dan Hosea - Hos
Joel - Joel Amos - Am
Jonah - Jon Micah - Mic
Nahum - Nah Habakkuk - Hab
Zephaniah - Zeph Haggai - Hag
Zechariah - Zech Malachi - Mal


New Testament
[b]Matthew - Mt Mark - Mk [/b]
Luke - Lk John - Jn
Acts of the Apostles - Acts Romans - Rom
1 Corinthians - 1 Cor 2 Corinthians - 2 Cor
Galatians - Gal Ephesians - Eph
Philippians - Phil Colossians - Col
1 Thessalonians - 1 Thess 2 Thessalonians - 2 Thess
1 Timothy - 1 Tim 2 Timothy - 2 Tim
Titus - Titus Philemon - Philemon
Hebrews - Heb James - Jas
1 Peter - 1 Pet 2 Peter - 2 Pet
1 John - 1 Jn 2 John - 2 Jn
3 John - 3 Jn Jude - Jude
Revelation - Rev Apocalypse - Apoc


In quoteing the New Testament where it is a quote of the Old Testament kinda blows holes in your theory that the Old Testament isn't relevent anymore eh?

When Jesus talks about how we need to be more righteous than the Pharisees:

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in...
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these things ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee...." (Matthew 23:13, 23:23-26)


Which says very little about what it takes to go to heaven. If you want to quote scripture that speaks directly to the requirements to enter Heaven then you should read.

Galatians 3:24 says "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

"It isn't enough to believe certain facts about Christ. Even Satan and his demons believe in the true God (James 2:19), but they don't love and obey Him. Their faith is not genuine. True saving faith always responds in obedience (Ephesians 2:10).

"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Faith is a recurring theme. You come to faith thru obedience to God's laws and thrut he repentance of your sins and then faith you are allowed in the kingdom of heaven.
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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Postby EatMoreLead » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:39 pm

actually catalyst you misunderstood me. The gospel of Matthew (which was not even written by a disciple - I love to throw these facts into these discussions) does NOT say that you need to follow OT law. The writters of Matthew are clearly pro-Jew, but the passage you refer to is talking about the grace of God. I am sorry you don't get it - I'll pray for your understanding.
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Catalyst22
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Postby Catalyst22 » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:43 pm

Jesus somehow had to die for our sins.



Jesus became sin for us and bore our sins in His body on the cross, thus fulfilling the Law.
2 Cor. 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
1 Peter 2:24, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed."
Rom. 8:3-4, "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh. 4in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."
Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith since it was not by our keeping the Law, but by Jesus, God in flesh, who fulfilled the Law and died in our place.
Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast."
Gal. 3:13, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree."
Eph. 5:2, "and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma."


I think you forgot all these passages that deal directly with why Jesus died. Jesus foretold his death all thru the New Testament.

and

"why have you forsaken me"


Psalm 22: 2, 22-25
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? …
Save me from the lion’s mouth,
my poor life from the horns of wild bulls.
… For God has not spurned or disdained
the misery of this poor wretch,
Did not turn away from me,
but heard me when I cried out."
NAB


Or you can read the whole thing here: http://members.aol.com/johnprh/forsaken.html
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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Postby Catalyst22 » Dec 1st, 2005 at 2:01 pm

I had no idea you knew for a "fact" that the book of Mathew was not written by Mathew... I suppose you can show me definitive proof of this? Last I checked the book of Mathew was attributed to Mathew, but that many scholars believe that it was written by an anonymous source.

Mathew (in theory) borrowed from Mark and it is also theorized that much of it came from a lost text known as the "Q Document".

As far as the Gospel according to Mathew being pro-jew is yet another debate that you seem to have absolute knowledge of, when no scholar has been able to definatively prove this "fact". The main argument being that the author uses the term "kingdom of heaven" rather than "Kingdom of God" and that this in turn signifies that the author was speaking to primarily a Jewish audience. That does not mean that he is "changing" the teachings, but in fact is speaking to those parts that his audience needs clarification of.

The Jews in fact did not invoke the name "God" as it was to holy to speak, and Mathew uses the term "Heaven". That is where you get your "Pro Jewish" theory, but it is in fact bunk.

When speaking to a Gentile audience there is little need to speak of Mosaic law as much of the mosaic (not all) is set up as the precursor to Jesus. Jesus fullfills much of Mosaic law therefore much (not all) pass's away.

If I in fact do not get it, then how about you clarify it?
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.â€

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Campsalot
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Postby Campsalot » Dec 1st, 2005 at 3:28 pm

Jesus said that we need to forgive others for sinning against us. That is a spiritual forgiveness whereby if someone sins against me in some way, I am to forgive that person and not hold a grudge. It DOES NOT mean that the person should be immune to any punishment for that sin. The bible does reference, as Cat has pointed out, numerous times where certain sins are punishable by death.

Oh, and there are other options besides a swift death penalty and what we currently have (lengthy appeals).

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Dylan
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Postby Dylan » Dec 1st, 2005 at 4:01 pm

Campsalot wrote:Oh, and there are other options besides a swift death penalty and what we currently have (lengthy appeals).

Get rid of the trials all together?
EDIT: :roll:
Servers gone and all of a sudden people have opinions of K2, weird

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Campsalot
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Postby Campsalot » Dec 1st, 2005 at 4:12 pm

No, of course not.

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monica
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Re: Tooki Williams

Postby monica » Dec 1st, 2005 at 7:10 pm

JayPhat wrote:Man kills other people and is founder of gang. Sentenced to death. Finds God in jail. Tells others to avoid the gangs and now wants to be pardoned. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this?


no. i'm against the death penalty (as you, jay, i'm sure know from our many debates, haha). he can sit in jail and pay for his crimes. god decides when he dies, not you. besides...why can't he just ASK?
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