Tooki Williams

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JayPhat
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Tooki Williams

Postby JayPhat » Nov 30th, 2005 at 10:09 pm

Man kills other people and is founder of gang. Sentenced to death. Finds God in jail. Tells others to avoid the gangs and now wants to be pardoned. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this?

I am gonna go on a mass murder spree, then tell others not to do it when i am in jail and "find God." Then I can walk away free.
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Postby Suck. » Nov 30th, 2005 at 10:57 pm

He's not asking to walk away. He's asking not to be executed. There could be an advantage in letting him live. Having somebody with high visibility and street credibility tell others that it's the wrong path to take might do far more justice for society than putting him to death.


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Postby EatMoreLead » Nov 30th, 2005 at 11:18 pm

I think everyone who supports the death penalty should be killed
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rekloose-[PUPPY]
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Nov 30th, 2005 at 11:32 pm

there's a lot mroe to this story than told. some people say he was still running the gang from behind bars - god or no god, he doesn't deserve any clemency ...

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Postby Phoenix » Dec 1st, 2005 at 12:20 am

Death pentalty is not effective, it costs more to kill em than it does to put em away for life and there is no evidence that there is less crime in states with the death pentalty than those without. Let him live, but there is no reason to kill him, it won't bring the other back and it costs to much.
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Postby EatMoreLead » Dec 1st, 2005 at 1:03 am

Derf - if you suddenly found God, I'd be nicer to you. :)
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Postby Jeng » Dec 1st, 2005 at 8:22 am

If he found god would he not have also found peace with god and then be more willing to accept the concequences of his actions?
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Postby Burzum » Dec 1st, 2005 at 8:26 am

Derfel wrote:
EatMoreLead wrote:Derf - if you suddenly found God, I'd be nicer to you. :)


In my universe, I AM God...


To bad we're in MY universe. To me, you're that one guy who's name is similar to teufel with the devil avatar who makes the liberal posts and who just might be Canadian.
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Postby Teufel » Dec 1st, 2005 at 8:36 am

:evil:
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End up owning you.

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Postby Burzum » Dec 1st, 2005 at 8:37 am

Teufel wrote::evil:


You know I <3 u toof :)
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Postby Campsalot » Dec 1st, 2005 at 9:01 am

Phoenix wrote:Death pentalty is not effective, it costs more to kill em than it does to put em away for life and there is no evidence that there is less crime in states with the death pentalty than those without. Let him live, but there is no reason to kill him, it won't bring the other back and it costs to much.


So much ignorance.. I don't know where to start. Let's see, putting a person to death costs MORE than housing them in prison for life (which costs anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000 per year or more depending on where they are housed and under what conditions). That... ummm.. okay.. whatever.

If he truly "found God" then he would understand that his actions deserve death. And don't give me that "it's the old testament so it doesn't apply anymore" crap. That's just trying to fit the bible into some sort-of mold that works for you.

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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Dec 1st, 2005 at 9:26 am

Campsalot wrote:So much ignorance.. I don't know where to start. Let's see, putting a person to death costs MORE than housing them in prison for life (which costs anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000 per year or more depending on where they are housed and under what conditions). That... ummm.. okay.. whatever.


ok everybody, get ready to post your "owned" pictures after this post ...

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article ... =7&did=918

(the stats were pulled from this report: http://www.kslegislature.org/postaudit/ ... 4pa03a.pdf )

- The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.
- The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 per death case; $32,000 per non-death case).
- The appeal costs for death cases were about 21 times greater.
- The costs of carrying out a death sentence (including death row incarceration) were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.
- Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.


in fact, here's a much longer list: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article ... 108&scid=7

now, that was an anti-death penalty advocacy group, but their data is linked to state reports.

let's try: http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

A Duke University study found... "The death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life." ( The costs of processing murder cases in North Carolina / Philip J. Cook, Donna B. Slawson ; with the assistance of Lori A. Gries. [Durham, NC] : Terry Sanford Institute of Public Policy, Duke University, 1993.)

"The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level." (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988).

"A 1991 study of the Texas criminal justice system estimated the cost of appealing capital murder at $2,316,655. In contrast, the cost of housing a prisoner in a Texas maximum security prison single cell for 40 years is estimated at $750,000." (Punishment and the Death Penalty, edited by Robert M. Baird and Stuart E. Rosenbaum 1995 p.109 )

"Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty from 1973 to 1988 to achieve 18 executions - that is an average of $3.2 million per execution."
(Miami Herald, July 10, 1988).

"Florida calculated that each execution there costs some $3.18 million. If incarceration is estimated to cost $17000/year, a comparable statistic for life in prison of 40 years would be $680,000."
(The Geography of Execution... The Capital Punishment Quagmire in America, Keith Harries and Derral Cheatwood 1997 p.6)


and, finally, from the same site:

From this; the cost of keeping a 25-year-old inmate for 50 years at present amounts to $805,000. Assuming 75 years as an average life span, the $805,000 figure would be the cost of life in prison. So roughly it's costing us $2 million more to execute someone than it would cost to keep them in jail for life. This is just the dollar cost, the externalities will be discussed in a moment.

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Postby Nad » Dec 1st, 2005 at 10:05 am

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Postby Campsalot » Dec 1st, 2005 at 10:07 am

Sorry Pups, not buying that crap. The costs that they are referring to are due to the costs of keeping them housed and tying up the courts with appeals. If we moved into a swift appeals process for capital cases and executed deathrow inmates immediately after the appeals process, that number would be so minimal it would not even be close to those numbers. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that a swift death penalty process would have a positive impact on the number of capital crimes committed. The problem lies in the current process, not in the end result.

btw.. you can keep your "owned" images (or display them), as they have little effect on me. I do not read anything that contradicts common sense and take it at face value.

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Postby Nad » Dec 1st, 2005 at 10:11 am

Camps, the death penalty SHOULD cost WAY less than life in prison. Try them, kill them, done. Unfortunately noone is willing to accept the death penalty without a fight, since they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, so the whole process drags on as long as humanly possible. Also, all that money spent isn't just tax dollars, and the tax dollars that are spent are probably paying these people way more than they deserve to get paid.
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Postby WidowMaker » Dec 1st, 2005 at 10:15 am

How much does a bullet cost these days? :)


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Postby Catalyst22 » Dec 1st, 2005 at 10:17 am

rekloose-[PUPPY] wrote:there's a lot mroe to this story than told. some people say he was still running the gang from behind bars - god or no god, he doesn't deserve any clemency ...

agree

Jeng wrote:If he found god would he not have also found peace with god and then be more willing to accept the concequences of his actions?

agree
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Postby PumpActionJackson » Dec 1st, 2005 at 10:50 am

You guys should go check out the movie Redemption (tookies life story), it is actually a very very good movie starring Jamie Foxx. Apparently like last week Snoop Dogg and Jamie Foxx offered the prison where Tookie is held millions of dollars to drop the death penalty (it did not work lol).

My opinion of it is: He does alot more good alive than he does dead, not only does it cost less as alot of you have stated, but as Suck stated its good that there is someone that has been through (hell started) all the gang shit, that is willing to speak out and tell kids not to go down that path. For god's sakes the guy writes childrens books from his cell...

http://www.tookie.com/booktemp.html

Now on to puppy's post: So good I had to post 2...

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Postby Catalyst22 » Dec 1st, 2005 at 10:55 am

Didn't Tooki kill a whole bunch of people and have a whole bunch of people killed. I'm pretty sure he tortured some people also.

If I had found God, I would want to die after all that. I would be welcoming the release of the grave to where I could be with the father.

I don't buy his story one bit, but then again its not my job to judge him.
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Postby Kahuna Mas » Dec 1st, 2005 at 11:07 am

PumpActionJackson wrote:
My opinion of it is: He does alot more good alive than he does dead, not only does it cost less as alot of you have stated, but as Suck stated its good that there is someone that has been through (hell started) all the gang shit, that is willing to speak out and tell kids not to go down that path. For god's sakes the guy writes childrens books from his cell...



Yeah he does a lot more good than evil. Maybe cause it wasn't your mom, dad, brother or sister that he killed. As for good deeds there are enough people in this world who DIDN"T MURDER ANYONE that can compensate for the lack of this guys existence.

My question is this. Had he not gotten caught, would he be writing kids books and preaching to the world today?

Don't reward this guy for turning his life around. Reward the police for stopping him and the prison for changing him.

Then you reward the guy who pushes the button for TRULY making the world a better place.

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Postby Catalyst22 » Dec 1st, 2005 at 11:08 am

Yeah he does a lot more good than evil. Maybe cause it wasn't your mom, dad, brother or sister that he killed. As for good deeds there are enough people in this world who DIDN"T MURDER ANYONE that can compensate for the lack of this guys existence.


agree
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Postby rekloose-[PUPPY] » Dec 1st, 2005 at 11:10 am

tookie was convicted of killing 3 or 4 people in a robbery (including a little girl) and two others (if I remember correctly).

In fact, I would even go so far as to say that a swift death penalty process would have a positive impact on the number of capital crimes committed. The problem lies in the current process, not in the end result.


Until you kill someone wrongfully convicted. The appeals process are there for a reason, you can't remove them (and should we remove them (?)). The Death Penalty is not an effective measure against crime, I think it's more of a way to give victims, the public, etc. some sort of closure.

As for my own view on it - I really don't have a stance. Both life in prison and the death penalty achieve the same goal - removing a criminal from society.

But, seeing as how I would not sacrifice the appeals process to expediate death sentences, and that housing a prisoner for life saves more money, I guess life in prison works - though I have very few moral qualms about executing someone.

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Postby sohpriest » Dec 1st, 2005 at 11:15 am

There is a difference in being sorry for what you did and being sorry you got caught. You let this guy off and you open the door for anyone who ever does it again. If he has found God he has also found accountability. I found God, but I still pay for the stupid choices I made in my youth. What better meassage could he give to the youth than don't kill people because then they kill you.
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Kahuna Mas
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Postby Kahuna Mas » Dec 1st, 2005 at 11:17 am

Life in prison wouldn't be expensive at all.

1 plane ticket to the desert in Mexico. I figure that would be a nice offset to our immigration issue.

Of course we win in the long run since we'll at least be getting those with a work ethic.

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Postby PumpActionJackson » Dec 1st, 2005 at 11:42 am

Kahuna Mas wrote:
PumpActionJackson wrote:
My opinion of it is: He does alot more good alive than he does dead, not only does it cost less as alot of you have stated, but as Suck stated its good that there is someone that has been through (hell started) all the gang shit, that is willing to speak out and tell kids not to go down that path. For god's sakes the guy writes childrens books from his cell...



Yeah he does a lot more good than evil. Maybe cause it wasn't your mom, dad, brother or sister that he killed. As for good deeds there are enough people in this world who DIDN"T MURDER ANYONE that can compensate for the lack of this guys existence.

My question is this. Had he not gotten caught, would he be writing kids books and preaching to the world today?

Don't reward this guy for turning his life around. Reward the police for stopping him and the prison for changing him.

Then you reward the guy who pushes the button for TRULY making the world a better place.


I never said he does alot more good than evil. What I meant by that statement was killing him does not make everything ok again, it's not gonna bring any of the people that he killed/hurt back. At least if he is alive he can try to deter kid's these day's from making the same mistakes he did, and yes there are many good people out there doing very good deeds. I just think it has a little more credibility coming from someone who has lived that lifestyle, rather than from someone who has never walked in those shoes. I mean would you rather get sex advice from Ron Jeremy or Keyser Soze??
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