00:02 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:9623 00:03 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:9948 00:04 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 00:08 -!- ChrisANG has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] thebobness (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 3211 points, T:2451, killed by a dwarf 00:12 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 874 points, T:1151, killed by a kobold mummy, while frozen by a monster's gaze 00:14 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 9 points, T:13, killed by a bolt of lightning 00:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] thebobness (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 560 points, T:1570, died of starvation 00:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] thebobness (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 692 points, T:1112, killed by a jackal, while fainted from lack of food 00:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) entered Sokoban, on T:6979 00:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kevkat (Pri Elf Mal Cha) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:4958 00:26 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Ran Gno Mal Cha), 7418 points, T:6765, killed by a soldier ant, while praying 00:27 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 1043 points, T:1605, killed by a hobgoblin 00:36 -!- engelson has joined #hardfought 00:38 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 1227 points, T:1382, killed by a rothe 00:39 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (class U), on T:15587 00:41 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) was bestowed with Stormbringer by Huan Ti, on T:15683 00:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] thebobness (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2216 00:46 -!- engelson_ has joined #hardfought 00:46 -!- engelson_ has quit [Client Quit] 00:46 -!- engelson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47 -!- engelson has joined #hardfought 00:49 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) was bestowed with The Apple of Discord by Huan Ti, on T:16701 00:51 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:17062 00:51 -!- taichi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:54 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) destroyed the invisible Arahael's ghost, the former Evoker, on T:1804 (0:08:33) 00:54 -!- engelson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54 -!- engelson has joined #hardfought 00:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 15842 points, T:11874, killed by a dingo 00:56 -!- a-1 has joined #hardfought 01:00 -!- cathartes has quit [Quit: fly away] 01:01 [hdf-au] [nh370] madelotsofspaget (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) murdered his faithful kitten, on T:2087 01:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] thebobness (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) was given Magicbane, on T:3597 01:07 [hdf-au] [nh370] madelotsofspaget (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1704 points, T:2369, killed by a housecat, while praying 01:10 [hdf-au] [dnh] Nyri (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 128893 points, T:15853, killed by a death ray 01:14 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 4592 points, T:3506, killed by a warg 01:15 [hdf-au] [dnh] Nyri (Mad Inc Mal Neu), 522 points, T:497, killed by a small dagger 01:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:5646 01:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] a1 (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 374 points, T:1332, killed by a small mimic 01:30 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Kni Dro Fem Cha) had a dark elven long sword entrusted to her by Lolth, on T:44700 (8:43:29) 01:31 [hdf-au] [nh370] madelotsofspaget (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 398 points, T:1315, killed by Ms. Kinojevis; the shopkeeper 01:37 -!- a-1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was bestowed with Magicbane by The Lady, on T:7703 01:45 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) attained the rank of Student of Waters (level 14), on T:22918 01:48 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:22981 01:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 3004 points, T:4078, killed by a rothe 01:54 [hdf-au] [dnh] Nyri (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 26923 points, T:3968, poisoned by a rotted jackal corpse 01:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) consulted the Oracle, on T:9068 01:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) the Oracle has been killed, on T:9091 02:02 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 533 points, T:1201, killed by a dwarf 02:06 -!- engelson_ has joined #hardfought 02:06 -!- engelson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08 -!- engelson_ has quit [Client Quit] 02:08 -!- engelson has joined #hardfought 02:09 -!- engelson has quit [Client Quit] 02:09 -!- engelson has joined #hardfought 02:12 [hdf-au] [nh370] madelotsofspaget (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2883 points, T:2170, killed by a soldier ant 02:16 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1526 points, T:1985, quit 02:18 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 02:27 [hdf-us] [hackm] Aeon (Val Dwa Fem Cha), 1445 points, T:2293, quit 02:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] thebobness (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) was given Nodensfork, on T:14525 02:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:11489 02:40 [hdf-us] [slshm] wsx9000 (Wiz Dop Fem Cha), 554 points, T:90, killed by a water moccasin, while helpless 02:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:12479 02:47 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 02:51 -!- engelson_ has joined #hardfought 02:51 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:00 -!- Elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 03:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] thebobness (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:19820 03:13 -!- engelson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:14321 03:23 -!- engelson has quit [Quit: Quit] 03:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) destroyed wintergalaxy88's ghost, the former Bandit, on T:14529 03:27 [hdf-eu] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 10601 points, T:5323, killed by a leocrotta 03:28 -!- joes has joined #hardfought 03:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] thebobness (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) was given Fallingstar Mandibles, on T:22524 03:39 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:21024 03:39 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:21025 03:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) genocided disenchanters, on T:21068 03:49 [hdf-us] [slshm] wsx9000 (Wiz Dop Fem Cha), 705 points, T:477, killed by a coyote 03:52 -!- taichi has joined #hardfought 03:53 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 03:53 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:54 A cloud of gas puts you to sleep! You dream that you see a gas cloud dissipate. The gas cloud around you dissipates. You dream that you see a gas cloud dissipate. You wake up. 03:54 that's a strange dream! 03:59 that seems kind-of like a bug 03:59 the third sentence in particular 04:07 yes, I was asleep, I couldn't have noticed the actual dissipation 04:09 [hdf-us] [hackm] Laenetta (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1497 points, T:2804, killed by a paper golem, while frozen by a monster's gaze 04:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed oilskin sack", got "a bag", on T:42146 04:20 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:22 [hdf-us] [hackm] Laenetta (Sam Hum Mal Law), 677 points, T:1258, killed by a rabid rabbit 04:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:42176 04:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:42195 04:45 -!- taichi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:23107 04:47 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:23116 04:48 Elenmirie_: Is that *lava* 04:49 that would be correct! 04:49 370 has changed! 04:49 3.7 gehennom is interesting 04:49 Yeah. 04:49 Maybe I should try that sometime. 04:49 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed Aphrodite, on T:2284 (0:56:02) 04:49 The main thing is to have a means of not touching the floor 04:49 or I suppose fireproof water walking would do as well 04:50 Even to get past the snaky-stoney-woman you need that. 04:50 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:23130 04:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:42352 04:58 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (2nd time), on T:23328 05:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:23509 05:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:23512 05:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) made her first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of charging", got "a scroll labeled KO BATE", on T:20798 05:17 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Umbire zaps a wand of digging!] 05:19 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 05:25 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:3251 (1:32:10) 05:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (3rd time), on T:24744 05:31 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:24768 05:34 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:24867 05:34 -!- fakepass has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:37 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:12104 (1:44:33) 05:43 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had a dagger entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:12406 (1:50:35) 05:48 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 758 points, T:1322, killed by a large mimic, while helpless 05:51 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:13048 (1:58:42) 05:52 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:55 -!- anselmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:42547 05:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:42548 06:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had a spellbook of fireball given to him by Anhur, on T:13852 (2:07:48) 06:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 26954 points, T:13884, killed by an earth elemental 06:03 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 5448 points, T:4954, killed by a gnome lord 06:08 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:801 (0:06:25) 06:09 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 2527 points, T:2610, killed by a dwarf 06:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor (2nd time), on T:42787 06:15 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1391 (0:13:15) 06:17 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) wished for "uncursed magic marker", got "a magic marker", on T:27426 06:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered the Elemental Planes, on T:27441 06:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Plane of Earth, on T:27441 06:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5th time), on T:27442 06:22 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 2704 points, T:2461, killed by a manes 06:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Plane of Air, on T:27522 06:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Plane of Fire, on T:27598 06:27 [hdf-eu] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 10445 points, T:3364, killed by a dwarf 06:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Plane of Water, on T:27634 06:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) genocided class ;, on T:27639 06:32 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 06:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered the Astral Plane, on T:27741 06:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed Famine, on T:27747 06:36 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed Famine (2nd time), on T:27772 06:37 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:27776 06:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:23878 06:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law), 2162514 points, T:27810, ascended 06:42 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/e/elenmirie/nethack/dumplog/1689538395.nh.html 06:45 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50 Nice one elenmarie! 06:53 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:55 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 06:56 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Sam Trt Mal Law) made his first artifact wish - "blessed +2 Dragonbane", on T:38473 (15:50:08) 07:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) the high priestess of Moloch has been killed, on T:67321 07:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:67321 07:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) wished for "holy ring of levitation", got "a ring of levitation", on T:67587 07:16 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) Juiblex has been killed, on T:67732 07:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Tou Hum Fem Neu) polymorphed her first object, on T:25364 07:18 [hdf-eu] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 8785 points, T:5824, killed by a tengu 07:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) killed Medusa, on T:68064 07:21 -!- Elenmirie_ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 07:21 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) the Wizard of Yendor has been killed (2nd time), on T:68154 07:25 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) wished for "3 gain level", got "3 potions of gain level", on T:68334 07:25 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) entered the Elemental Planes, on T:68342 07:25 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) entered Plane of Earth, on T:68342 07:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) the Wizard of Yendor has been killed (3rd time), on T:68344 07:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor (3rd time), on T:43739 07:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) entered Plane of Air, on T:68382 07:35 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:35 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 386 points, T:1099, killed by the Goblin King 07:42 k2, when is next 3.7 update planned for hdf btw? (I want to playtest the new alchemy changes) :D) 07:43 [hdf-us] [evil] Disruptor (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 447 points, T:1310, diseased by a hobbit zombie 07:46 -!- taichi has joined #hardfought 07:47 [hdf-eu] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had an athame named Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:3834 07:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) entered the Elemental Planes, on T:44286 07:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha) entered Plane of Earth, on T:44286 07:56 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 4768 points, T:6491, killed by a rothe 07:59 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) entered Plane of Fire, on T:68431 07:59 -!- Bleeko has joined #hardfought 08:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) entered Plane of Water, on T:68490 08:02 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) genocided class ;, on T:68497 08:03 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) entered the Astral Plane, on T:68530 08:03 [hdf-eu] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 11745 points, T:5271, killed by a bone devil 08:04 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) Pestilence has been killed, on T:68580 08:09 cbus I might have to remove the dilution effects with the new alchemy stuff 08:09 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) Pestilence has been killed (2nd time), on T:68593 08:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) Pestilence has been killed (3rd time), on T:68607 08:12 my mind hasnt settled on what I think yet 08:12 I usually dilute all my potions so they stack nicely 08:12 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 08:14 cbus: sorry 08:14 I dont like the change but I am not sure it is a bad change 08:14 so to speak 08:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Neu) used a helm to turn chaotic, on T:68651 08:14 which is why I want to try it out first :) 08:14 I didnt like the gehennom change on paper but did end up liking it when playing 08:14 since it makes mapping a bit easier with more open levels 08:15 it's to suppress a combo which is definitely broken with the new earlygame healing changes (both in terms of being overpowered and in terms of encouraging bad play patterns) and may well have been broken even beforehand 08:15 yaeh I know 08:15 which is why I say I need to try it to see how it plays out completely 08:15 :D) 08:15 cause I do never use healing or extra healing almost 08:15 I save them for alchemy 08:15 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 08:16 I guess extra healing is ever more important to save now then 08:16 so by nerfing alchemy it does make it so you use less extra healing instead 08:16 cause they are more valuable 08:17 fwiw I have gotten into the habit of using extra healing to save myself in combat in the midgame, but it's mostly the early game I was worried about, we can fix the midgame later if it breaks :-) 08:17 also I guess it might also change the preferred oh-shit-potion from one of those coveted blessed full healing to saving diluted extra for that 08:17 I usually dont have issue midgame ;) 08:17 nor do I 08:17 although, I managed it a couple of times this tournament 08:17 including one actual death at the Castle 08:17 and usually at that point I dont know extra healing either 08:17 which was one of the issues wit h!oHealing that was fixed (lowering base price to 20) 08:18 not knowing potions early is a huge problem – I'd like to fix it more comprehensively, but I at least wanted to make !oH trivial to identify 08:18 given that, I am looking forward to playtesting 08:18 so am I, but I need sleep first :-) 08:18 another thing I was thinking about with the food change is if it changes vegan monks 08:19 so was I! did you see the commit that adds a stack of food rations to the Monk quest home level? 08:19 the commit specifically mentions vege thinking and mentions that conducts are not really bothered about except vege since that is encouraged 08:19 yeah 08:19 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Fem Cha), 15526 points, T:68653, ascended 08:19 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/s/spontiff/nethack/dumplog/1697566156.nh.html 08:19 I dont see that as a fix 08:19 monk quest is dangerous with xorns 08:19 :P 08:19 "I dont enter the quest if I have food issues since then I would die from thoes" 08:19 hmm, perhaps 08:19 again, I will need to playtest it 08:19 since they hit so hard and monks early have bad ac 08:19 yeah needs to test 08:19 but it was an initial worry at least 08:20 I wonder if there's some way to stealth past them 08:20 I did die to them repeatedly when checking whether the stack of rations was in the right plcae 08:20 anyhow, if you see the changes get pushed to hdf ping me :P 08:20 I am ready to play! 08:20 although that was with a wizmode teleport into the quest, so no useful equipmetn at all 08:20 if you want something specific tested let me know 08:21 might go with Wiz-Gno or something since I havent won one of those on the account 08:21 there are some further wizard changes I'm planning to implement in the short term, but they're a little harder to implement than what I've done so far 08:22 I am a bit iffed by the spell writing change 08:22 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Excalibur by the Lady of the Lake, on T:3505 08:22 most specifically that +oId needs skilled 08:22 that means getting another spell and just idling and spamming to get it up to skill :D 08:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] largo (Val Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2717 08:22 probably right after quest 08:22 at the altar 08:22 implement noita style wand building for wizards in vanilla nethack 08:23 demo, yes we need homing mist wands 08:23 there are some very good low-level divination spells; detect monsters comes to mind 08:23 I never use it 08:23 I only use id and magic mapping 08:23 -!- xdminsy has joined #hardfought 08:23 oh remove curse 08:24 remove curse is clerical 08:24 so it just adds extra tedium 08:24 oh 08:24 well yeah :P 08:24 thats how mucth I use those schools 08:24 but +oID fest is one of the things I look forward to with wiz :P 08:24 but I guess it is business as usual with b?oId 08:24 it may be that spell skills are either a) too hard to raise despite the changes to the earlygame or b) too linear/predictable/repetitive to raise 08:24 yeah 08:25 cause I mean how I would play wiz now is, do castle, get crowned, do quest, spam until skilled, write id 08:25 or just "cant be arsed, I will just wish for it" 08:25 if no other spell to spam to get skill up 08:26 and I dont think the intent is this gameplay 08:26 cbus: I guess I basically haven't been considering any strategy which has things after "do castle", for me that is the point where the game is trivially won anyway 08:26 I always do castle before quest almost 08:26 do castle, get ascension kit, win 08:26 when I tried to play a wizard as a wizard, I failed the Castle even post-quest 08:26 exception being if I for some reason am high level and at quest level 08:27 when I played it as "valk with inferior weapons" it went a bit beter 08:27 * better 08:27 but usually I hit castle at around xp 12-13 08:27 and need a single wraith/!oGL 08:27 cbus: same, I do castle before quest for most roles 08:27 in my most recent valk game, I did actually get set up to do Quest first, but then hit a trapdoor and ended up at the Castle anyway 08:27 wow 08:28 yaeh been there done that 08:28 and decided to do it rather than working out how to backtrack across Medusa's 08:28 what kind of AC/HP do you talk about when you have hard times with castle after quest? 08:28 HP – unboosted typical HP for a level 14 character; AC - normally about -20 08:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:4150 08:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Sam Clk Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:666 08:28 ah 08:29 but my problem is I ran out of ways to kill the monsters and got overwhelmed 08:29 yaeh you have to be extremely careful 08:29 I do castle at around ac:-10 and hp:100-ish 08:29 in retrospect I should have fought them in the maze 08:29 that said I see an issue with my stats there ;) 08:29 the issue being surprise minotaur around a corner 08:30 you could easily do castle with that though if you are careful, either play with drawbridge, or just let everyone out and kill them or take the back way 08:30 clear the maze first, I guess? 08:30 The book writing change seems like a creative way around not eliminating the spellbook of id entirely like xnh did 08:30 I never clear mazes between medusa and castle 08:30 I dig and map 08:30 cbus: I didn't mean mazes between 08:30 but the small section of maze next to the castle 08:31 ah yeah 08:31 I clear the one in the starting area if I have verified no minotaur 08:31 minotaurs are actually pretty easy to beat with enchantment spells or wands 08:31 yeah 08:31 the safe ways being /oTele, /oPoly since they dont miss 08:32 (which I suspect is an intentional weakness) 08:32 I'm the sort of person who usually goes for the dangerous ways 08:32 i doubt there is much intention, more like, here is how it ended up and it was good, so no need to change it 08:32 Demo: it's hard to tell sometimes 08:32 nethack balance is too historic to be deliberate, I think 08:33 but it feels like if you're creating this super-dangerous melee powerhouse and then give it a 0 in the stat that resists enchantment spells when most monsters have more, that's intentional 08:33 @? newt 08:33 newt (:) | Lvl: 0 | Diff: 1 | Spd: 6 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 0 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 8 | Atk: 1d2 bite physical | Align: 0 | genocidable, carnivore, swims, amphibious, passes-bars 08:33 0 monster mr meant something else at the time it was added. since then, it was made easier to take advantage of that stat being low 08:33 hmm, I was wondering if they would resist enchantments, apparently not 08:34 @>? konold 08:34 @? kobold 08:34 kobold (k) | Lvl: 0 | Diff: 1 | Spd: 6 | Res: poison | Confer: nothing | MR: 0 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 10 | Atk: 1d4 weapon physical | Align: -2 | genocidable, omnivore, poisonous, infravis 08:34 Demo: huh, this might be an interesting story 08:35 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 530 points, T:1148, killed by a sea tortle 08:35 Elbereth was also a bigger deal, and since minotaurs could ignore it maybe 0 mr was to compensate 08:36 [hdf-eu] [evil] Imanity (Pri Gia Fem Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:93691 (1 day, 9:17:14) 08:36 [hdf-eu] [evil] Imanity (Pri Gia Fem Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:93693 (1 day, 9:17:23) 08:37 nowadays I occasionally forget E exists because I have been playing without it, partly because I find it more fun and partly because I am hoping to eventually get the game into a state where it isn't necessary and thus avoiding it gives more useful playtesting feedback 08:38 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 1491 points, T:1511, killed by a grid bug, while frozen by a monster's gaze 08:41 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 157 points, T:304, killed by a fox 08:43 Another thought... Maybe healing potions would be used more mid/late game if the players natural regeneration rate wasn't so high. At some point it feels kind of like you get a free ring of regeneration 08:44 that point is level 12 08:44 i agree with hackemslashem. 08:44 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 641 points, T:1351, killed by a killer bee 08:44 well, not quite – there is a chance of healing slightly slower than a ring of regen would (con-dependent), but it's a pretty small chance 08:44 see also: https://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nhdev/nethack_heal.txt 08:44 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 08:45 but there is a sudden discontinuity in the regen formula at xlvl 10 08:45 CON 19, xplvl 30, you heal on average 3 pts per turn 08:45 before that point con doesn't matter at all; after that point, regen shoots up in speed suddenly but regen speed becomes con-limited as xlvl gets higher 08:46 ais523: see my link 08:46 I noticed that when playing with healthstones lol 08:46 i can confirm healing potions are more useful in the mid/late game with terrible regen 08:46 at least in dnethack 08:47 ais523: i've also mailed you about this before with an alternative regen formula 08:47 I do agree that changing the regen formula is important for the late game 08:47 in the early game I have been balancing around the current formula, and it has seemed to work correctly at critical moments 08:49 ais523: see my email 2 months ago 08:49 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 785 points, T:1178, killed by a small mimic 08:50 paxed: found it 08:50 it may have been lost somehow, I rarely get personal email about devteam-wide topics and thus it could have been hard to mentally sort 08:51 dnh slashed the regen rate to be in parts of 1/90 instead of 1/30. i do not like the impact this has had on the early game, but the midgame and lategame are less healy 08:51 one thing worth considering is how much impact we want a =oRegen to have late-game 08:51 -!- stenno has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1] 08:51 I used it in one of my ascensions, but it was as a makeshift =oHunger rather than for its actual regenerative properties 08:52 I feel like doubling regen rate is about right with your bilinear lerp 08:53 which makes me think that maybe it just adds a flat +1 regen per turn 08:53 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 08:55 paxed: I would say that if you want to try out a new HP regen formula on the live 3.7, now would be a very good time, and I would support you in the experiment 08:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] GrmlyFndsh (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered Sokoban, on T:10383 08:57 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Und Vam Mal Neu) killed the Rat King, on T:15645 (7:10:42) 09:00 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 1630 points, T:1225, killed by a housecat 09:00 -!- spontiff has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:00 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Sam Trt Mal Law) had a dwarvish short sword entrusted to him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:40867 (17:10:20) 09:03 -!- engelson has joined #hardfought 09:06 -!- taichi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 711 points, T:1151, killed by a giant bat 09:08 I'm gonna play on hdf any how so if you want me to look out for things let me know 09:14 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 507 points, T:852, killed by a wererat 09:20 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Sam Trt Mal Law) performed his first genocide (locusts), on T:41714 (17:30:53) 09:22 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 09:26 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 803 points, T:1891, killed by a little dog 09:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] GrmlyFndsh (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Kiltamagh the giant beetle, the second-hand bookstore proprietrix, on T:13198 09:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] GrmlyFndsh (Kni Hum Mal Law) destroyed lurchy's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:13209 09:35 -!- joes has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:35 [hdf-us] [nh343] ellone (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 424 points, T:942, killed by a purple worm 09:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] garfop (Mon Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1769 09:50 [hdf-eu] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) averted death, on T:2867 09:56 Also, since food is being looked at, the number of C/ K rations you get in the castle and ludios is also very high, it makes food rations almost useless 09:58 @hackemslashem: I'm aware, but think I need to take this one balancing step at a time 09:59 it is possible that the Castle rations will end up relevant after this change, and it's also possible that they will continue to be excessive/superfluous 09:59 also I think it's probably OK for there to be a point past which food doesn't matter, for people who like to play long games 09:59 dnh makes a bunch of soldiers not drop rations because it adds a bunch more and i think chris is afraid of food or something idk 10:00 my opinions on nutrition in nethack are not in line with most people's, I think 10:01 Demo: the conventional wisdom appears to be "we wouldn't care if you removed half the food with no compensation" 10:01 which surprises me, normally players hate nerfs 10:01 I don't know what your opinion is though 10:01 the 3.7 alchemy change is bad 10:01 uhhh sometimes I say "remove nutrition entirely, it wouldnt make a big difference" 10:01 but im not feeling that way as much this morning 10:01 Yes it's difficult to see too far past changes like this, I'll be interested to play test 10:01 idk, a lot of my opinions fluctuate a lot 10:03 I usually dilute all my potions so they will stack and it will just mean that more farming is required for an acceptable amount of full healing potions 10:04 how many do you consider acceptable? 10:04 We should nerf the diluted potions too, alchemy is overrated 10:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] largo (Val Hum Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:8861 10:05 @hackemslashem: did you see the most recent alchemy changes? if you're dipping diluted potions, only two alchemize 10:05 Lol, yes, I'm more on the evil side I guess 10:06 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Sam Trt Mal Law) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:42972 (18:09:18) 10:06 10 for the endgame, with a max HP of at least 300 10:06 if people react by farming for longer, that will in turn need changing 10:07 10 isn't too hard to get naturally I think, but you would need other means than potions to get the HP (e.g. nurse-dancing) 10:08 having diminishing returns that basically hit a wall of hp gain from pots has definitely encouraged me to actually use healing items when I need them 10:08 I think 300 HP is considerably harder than 200, which is fairly easy 10:08 instead of getting them to FH and drinking for the max hp. when i run out of extra max hp to get, it makes sense to use them for their purpose of healing 10:09 my current strategy is to use them all for the healing and max HP gain simultaneously 10:10 gaining max HP as I go rather than in advance 10:10 (unless I have too many to carry, which has happened on some games) 10:12 I also don't like the spellbook writing change. Getting high skill is trivial once you have the EotA, and the inability to write charm monster is bad. 10:13 -!- qt has joined #hardfought 10:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v qt] by ChanServ 10:13 I mean, there are other ways to get charm monster if you really want it 10:14 wishing or altar farming 10:14 or just trying to write repeatedly, although I think that's less wish-efficient than just wishing directly 10:15 oh wow, my wizard ascension this TNNT had 85 max HP 10:15 ais523: your recent commits look interesting/cool 10:15 max hp?? that's crazy 10:15 (compared to 200ish for my valks) 10:15 I was wondering why I was struggling 10:15 I don't normally put much effort into raising max HP 10:15 that said, I had a fairly good sustain loop going on Astral with Orb of Fate + Staff of Aesculapius, so I didn't have to heal very much 10:16 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 790 points, T:2097, killed by a jackal 10:17 4 uncursed diluted potions of extra healing, 2 uncursed potions of full healing, 5 uncursed potions of gain energy left over (so, really 6 !oFH under the new alchemy mechanics) 10:17 I think there are weird incentives wrt making the NetHack lategame harder 10:18 if people react by grinding more in order to ensure it becomes trivial again, then the changes aren't really helping, unless you also make the *grinding itself* harder so that it becomes riskier than just ascending directly, and people will dislike that too 10:19 I think at least the NH4 devs (not sure about the NetHack devteam) acknowledge that it's OK if a character can become do-everything overpowered as long as it's harder than actually just winning the game 10:20 Rather than trying to make grinding dangerous you can try to identify the benefits that come from grinding and cap them. 10:20 (Demo has already mentioned dnh's diminishing returns for bonus HP; that's the sort of thing I mean) 10:21 yes, I think diminishing returns for !oFH max hp would make a lot of sense, just like there are diminishing returns for nurse max HP 10:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] largo (Val Hum Fem Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:9490 10:22 It would have to apply to all healing potions tho, since regular potions are much more common 10:22 well, yes 10:22 !oFH is all that most people use in practice 10:22 (I have taken to just quaffing !oH that spawn in the lategame to increase max HP by 1 – I'm not going to carry them around, so it's the best use for them) 10:23 The Player Character in dnh has a single "bonus HP" stat that all sources of extra HP contribute to, and that is subject to diminishing returns. 10:24 it seems like just using the max HP stat directly would reduce the exploitability 10:24 i find potions of healing are useful for healing pets 10:24 since they will heal them 100% 10:24 if you whack them 10:25 so that can still be a use for them in the late game beyond alchemy 10:25 I haven't seriously tried pets in the lategame, apart from that one NH4 game where my code for keeping pets alive turned out to be a little overpowered 10:26 dNh tracks rolled HP and bonus HP separately so that the diminishing returns for the bonus HP can be based on your rolled HP. So that low HP roles suffer diminishing returns sooner than high HP roles, ditto for low level PCs vs. high level PCs. 10:26