00:00 [hdf-us] [nh343] stagnate (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed scroll of genocide", on T:123398 00:12 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 00:17 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) wished for "magic marker (0:90)", got "a magic marker", on T:35201 00:24 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Mon Hum Fem Cha) had Gauntlets of Defense bestowed upon her by Huan Ti, on T:1202 (0:12:52) 00:24 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 00:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:4544 00:30 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:33 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Hea Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fireproof oilskin sack", on T:18436 00:41 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 00:42 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 dragonhide ruffled shirt of drain resistance", on T:25360 (15:34:33) 00:43 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 00:49 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:50 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:56 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had a steel spear entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:9268 (1:01:57) 01:00 [hdf-us] [nh343] stagnate (Val Dwa Fem Law), 5129222 points, T:123497, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/s/stagnate/nh343/dumplog/1688273281.nh343.txt 01:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) killed Croesus, on T:36304 01:02 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Vam Mal Non) was given their Quest, on T:8984 01:02 gg 01:02 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had a long sword entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:10316 (1:07:52) 01:05 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:10647 (1:10:51) 01:10 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought 01:13 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:19 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Hum Mal Law), 6742 points, T:4289, zombified by a diseased gnoll corpse, while helpless 01:21 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 01:25 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) destroyed Kas, on T:26358 (16:17:22) 01:26 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:32 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 43751 points, T:21940, killed by an ochre jelly 01:32 I prayed for health and got a spellbook. 01:32 Miles away from an altar. 01:32 Fuck right off. 01:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] elky (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:5467 01:38 !lastgame umbire 01:38 anselmus: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/U/Umbire/unnethack/dumplog/1689447719.un.txt.html :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/U/Umbire/slashem/dumplog/1632296027.slashem.txt :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/U/Umbire/gh/dumplog/1670053888.gh.txt 01:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] elky (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3895 points, T:5800, killed by a giant mimic 01:43 trap rooms full of chests are fun 01:44 [hdf-us] [ndnh] technillogue (Ana Eth Fem Neu) killed the first wraithworm, on T:20484 01:44 Like, actual traps or just those mimic deals. 01:45 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Con Gno Fem Cha), 90 points, T:62, killed by a fox 01:46 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48 -!- cathartes has quit [Quit: fly away] 01:52 -!- funknut has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:53 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Pri Hum Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:1139 (0:07:52) 01:55 -!- fakepass has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 01:55 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) destroyed Vecna, on T:26909 (16:46:35) 01:57 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Vam Mal Non) averted death, on T:10019 01:58 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Vam Mal Non), 385864 points, T:10021, killed by an Angel of Amaterasu Omikami 02:00 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Pri Hum Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:1831 (0:14:53) 02:00 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:06 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Pri Hum Fem Law), 1592 points, T:2929, killed by a gecko, while frozen by a monster's gaze 02:06 lol autopilot 02:07 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 02:07 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 172 points, T:116, killed by a sewer rat 02:09 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:27214 (17:00:36) 02:11 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 3981 points, T:2639, killed by a small crossbow bolt 02:13 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 02:17 [hdf-us] [evil] Sioh (Val Cen Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a little dog, on T:3983 (1:01:26) 02:20 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:20 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:1290 (0:12:17) 02:28 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Mon Hum Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, acquiring a bag of holding, on T:5799 (1:27:31) 02:28 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown, on T:2293 (0:20:51) 02:29 [hdf-us] [un] Umbire (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:2376 (0:21:50) 02:42 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 02:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] elky (Val Dwa Fem Law), 851 points, T:2323, killed by a giant spider 02:47 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:51 [hdf-us] [evil] Sioh (Val Cen Fem Neu), 7568 points, T:5906, killed by a rothe, while paralyzed by a monster 02:56 -!- anselmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57 You fall into the lava! You burn to a crisp... 02:57 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law), 7691 points, T:7746, burned by molten lava 02:57 thought it's a forge 02:58 Far look's your friend 03:01 [hdf-us] [ndnh] technillogue (Ana Eth Fem Neu) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:22257 03:02 what does "TH:" mean in the status bar? 03:03 To-hit 03:05 thx 03:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grouchy (Tou Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Vorpal Blade by The Lady, on T:1381 03:11 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Cha) wished for "blessed +2 mithril helm of opposite alignment" using the Magic 8-ball, on T:285910 (18:42:09) 03:11 <@Loggers_VIII> teehee 03:12 <@Loggers_VIII> stupid game played stupid prize one 03:12 <@Loggers_VIII> *won 03:12 <@Loggers_VIII> I may have suffered permanent mental damage from this experience 03:13 congrats in any case 03:14 <@Loggers_VIII> I win the "most time on their hands" contest 03:15 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 03:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grouchy (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 994 points, T:2147, killed by a hobbit 03:19 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:20 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:24 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:29 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:36 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:39 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Mon Hum Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7781 (2:14:09) 03:41 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 03:45 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered Minetown, on T:13805 (2:14:36) 03:47 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 03:52 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:13918 (2:21:23) 03:56 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:57 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Cha) wished for "blessed +2 dragonhide striped shirt of excellence named Sergio", on T:289519 (19:26:59) 03:59 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Cha) had Angelslayer bestowed upon him by Lolth, on T:289644 (19:28:45) 03:59 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1718 (0:58:12) 04:02 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Cha) had Frost Brand bestowed upon him by Lolth, on T:289908 (19:32:30) 04:07 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Cha) had Secespita bestowed upon him by Lolth, on T:290186 (19:37:10) 04:10 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Cha) had Dragonbane bestowed upon him by Lolth, on T:290356 (19:40:12) 04:10 <@Loggers_VIII> oh we are indeed cooking now 04:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] Dirge (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 189 points, T:919, killed by a fox 04:14 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:76504 04:15 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:76508 04:17 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:76533 04:17 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) genocided class L, on T:76538 04:27 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Cha) used a helm to turn lawful, on T:291545 (19:57:21) 04:30 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Cha) permanently converted to lawful, on T:291715 (19:59:52) 04:34 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible high priest of Moloch, on T:76766 04:34 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:76767 04:40 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) murdered his faithful wolf, on T:46112 (17:11:51) 04:41 -!- oh6 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44 -!- Sgeo_ has joined #hardfought 04:44 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 04:45 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (2nd time), on T:76810 04:47 -!- Noisytoot has quit [Killed (erbium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 04:47 -!- Noisytoot has joined #hardfought 04:49 -!- Lymee has joined #hardfought 04:50 -!- jess_ has joined #hardfought 04:53 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) attained the rank of Wizard (level 26), on T:76867 04:53 -!- Chris__ANG has quit [*.net *.split] 04:53 -!- Sgeo has quit [*.net *.split] 04:53 -!- jess has quit [*.net *.split] 04:53 -!- Lymia has quit [*.net *.split] 04:56 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Law) wished for "blessed +2 dragonhide pair of water walking boots", on T:293119 (20:25:47) 05:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) murdered his faithful silver dragon, on T:46557 (17:32:50) 05:03 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) defeated the invisible Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:46571 (17:34:41) 05:08 I'm doing the "walls of water" level in Gehennom by wearing magical breathing, and diving right it 05:08 There are some issues to deal with here 05:09 aside from being a very tiring level - give me mysterious force instead any day 05:09 "You plunge into the wall of water. The water slides right off your oilskin sack" 05:09 "But you aren't drowning. You touch bottom. You trip over your own feet. You make a lot of noise!" 05:09 "You slowly rise above the surface." 05:10 if only there was a way to contact th devs. oh noes. 05:10 hard to trip and make noise when underwater 05:10 paxed, hmmm.... 05:12 Yay and through, amulet of MB to the rescue! 05:13 -!- Sgeo_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Dro Fem Cha) attained the rank of Skyrider, on T:45153 05:16 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (3rd time), on T:77231 05:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu) the Oracle has been killed, on T:12719 05:22 I went up a few levels and arrived at Baalzebub's house. Haven't killed him yet, so went to grab a cockatrice egg from my boh... 05:23 and my boh was gone! No boh! Oh no! where'd it go! 05:23 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:4297 (2:19:21) 05:23 then I remembered, stashed it in the oilskin sack earlier 05:23 panic averted 05:23 what is this walls of water thing 05:24 the walls are just water? 05:24 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Baalzebub, on T:77412 05:25 splat! 05:25 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 10706 points, T:4652, killed by a dark elven soldier 05:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu) Niskal, the hardware store proprietor, has been killed, on T:13872 05:26 stenno like on plane of water, you don't walk or fly over it 05:26 hmm 05:26 some of the maze paths/corridors have no way out 05:26 gotta keep that in mind then 05:27 except maybe a single tile which is "moat" or "pool" and you can go over it 05:27 finding those in agony because the glyphs are identical 05:27 thus why I moan about it being "tedious" 05:28 easier to just go swimming, making it comparable to plane of water in difficulty, except plane of water is easier 05:28 on plane of water, you'll find the portal eventually as your bubble always move 05:29 and you don't have to continually farlook for the moat/pool tiles 05:31 -!- Arseniy has joined #hardfought 05:31 if you use enhanced symset, the glyphs are not the same 05:32 nice 05:32 or you could just remap the symbol in the config file yourself 05:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu) Bordeyri, the general store proprietor, has been killed, on T:16218 05:32 is that new with the water walls? i didn't notice it on my last ascension a few weeks ago 05:34 paxed, sounds good, I'll give that a go 05:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu) found Orcrist on the floor, on T:16765 05:35 my complaint mainly relate to eye strain honestly 05:35 different glyphs may solve everything 05:35 stenno, I'm not sure they appear in every game 05:35 oh fair 05:35 I don't recall them in an earlier asc too 05:35 stenno: the "water wall" feature has been in the game since whenever, as the plane of water used it. but it was really not functional outside that level before 05:36 paxed: i mean specifically as a wall type in gehennom 05:36 only some of the gehennom hells are "cold" and have it 05:36 so i just didn't notice that kind of behavior on my last run then 05:37 I've had a cold level but the corridors were not blocked 05:37 so WW boots or flying no problem for the occasional pools 05:37 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Aphrodite, on T:21233 05:38 on this one, the pools seemed strategically placed to look like parts of the walls 05:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:17521 05:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4220 05:40 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 05:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law), 1745 points, T:4943, killed by an Uruk-hai 05:47 now Em, my pet water troll, for some strange reason, has somewhere discarded his wielded rustproof +7 trident and is now hitting things with a random bow he picked up 05:48 he looked better with the trident 05:48 rolled a three for intelligence, did he? 05:48 maybe just no fashion sense 05:48 heh 05:48 pets do strange things in 370 05:49 they happily pick up cursed wtuff, even put it on or wield it 05:49 never seen a pet drop a perfectly good +7 trident before though 05:50 unless maybe it got killed somewhere (and regenerated) 05:50 maybe in the sanctum - I teleported him into the big room with all the priests n stuff, and by them time I got there they were all just piles of stuff 05:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:16979 05:51 but then he'd have dropped his armor and other stuff... 05:51 mope, he still has all his other gear (AC:-15) 05:51 nice 05:52 anyways, I have a spare trident or maybe a katana back at base 05:52 if I can get that bow out of his hands 05:52 if it is not cursed I mean 05:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Vorpal Blade by The Lady, on T:20250 05:53 another wierd thing, he's a water troll and y'know big 05:54 but for some reason he's wearing a thoroughly burnt rotted mummy wrapping of no value (or maybe negative, I think -1 maybe) 05:54 anyways, trolls aren't meant to be able to put on cloaks 05:54 this pet of yours seems a bit nuts 05:55 if you give them a great weapon, they'll pick it up and then drop it a few turns later 05:55 they'll only "wield" it if you immediately present them with a fightable monster 05:56 thanks, but I'd rather use this pointed stick 05:56 exactly 05:56 it may be cursed but meh 05:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "2 holy charging", got "a scroll labeled HACKEM MUCHE", on T:12396 05:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "3 cursed genocide", got "3 scrolls labeled TEMOV", on T:12398 05:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy +2 shield of reflection", got "a polished silver shield", on T:12398 06:01 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 06:03 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 127908 points, T:13817, quit 06:09 <@rikerwashere> !lastgame fiq 06:09 @rikerwashere: [hdf-us] (sorry, no dump exists for gnoll:FIQ) :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/F/FIQ/dnethack/dumplog/1689487181.dnh.txt 06:09 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3444 points, T:2315, killed by a giant beetle 06:16 -!- jess_ is now known as jess 06:17 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1239 points, T:1871, killed by a gnome zombie 06:22 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law) defeated Croesus, on T:24050 06:23 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:23680 (4:52:04) 06:26 OK, I've seen it happening 06:27 i think monsters can get generated with rotten or rusted gear now 06:27 Em the water troll just wield whatever weapon he happens to have picked up recently, ignoring his lovely +7 trident 06:27 https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/commit/7c2c692ee58175c6994f6e56395e68d88d929e7b 06:27 he's now wielding a knife I saw him pick up a little way back 06:27 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered the Town, on T:24134 (4:56:45) 06:28 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law), 79532 points, T:24631, killed by a blue dragon's ball of lightning 06:28 knife is probably some cursed -3 puddingbane, but meh 06:29 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Eymoutiers on T:24196 06:29 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Akranes on T:24220 06:30 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 31 points, T:395, killed by a newt 06:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:4117 06:30 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Budereyri on T:24250 06:31 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Trahnil on T:24302 06:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3788 points, T:4356, killed by a large dog 06:33 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Richard on T:24386 06:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:3181 06:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law), 1041 points, T:3603, killed by a killer bee 06:55 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) chose an elven broadsword to be named "Orcrist", on T:78549 06:55 I'm hoping Em the water troll will hold onto this one a little longer 06:57 oh, seems he has dropped the random knife he picked up earlier 06:59 he's wielding blessed fireproof +7 Orcrist now 06:59 hope it suits his chaotic nature beter 06:59 [hdf-eu] [hackm] mobileuser (Cav Hum Mal Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Ishtar, on T:24597 (10:14:51) 07:02 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 861 points, T:908, killed by a wand, while moving through the air 07:02 how do you even reach xl30 nowadays 07:03 are you just polypiling for !oGL ? 07:03 painstakingly extract wraiths from the valley? 07:03 the wraiths are dead already 07:06 then same thing in orcustown and sanctum 07:06 mp i guess 07:08 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered the Blackmarket, on T:28572 (5:37:47) 07:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (orcs), on T:1 07:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of genocide 07:17 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 253 points, T:1227, killed by a gnome lord 07:17 [hdf-us] [nh4] sdfl (post163) (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 07:17 i might try just using ring of levitation for gehennom this time 07:17 [hdf-us] [xnh] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:38, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 07:18 a build switch would cost too many resources 07:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:3, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 07:18 actually imma do the quest first i guess 07:18 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 209 points, T:803, killed by a coyote 07:22 wow there are two saddled warhorses on the kni quest home level 07:22 are they always there? 07:22 thats awesome 07:23 wiki article doesn't mention it 07:25 https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/commit/a1d5464fa7daf58bc5067a720b21747cae6d0782 that is so cool 07:25 good to know 07:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Knight (level 14), on T:18063 07:29 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 07:31 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 07:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:23011 07:34 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed Ixoth, on T:18578 07:34 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) found the Magic Mirror of Merlin carried by a monster, on T:18578 07:34 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:18629 07:36 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Inc Fem Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2596 07:37 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Inc Fem Non), 1782 points, T:2696, killed by a freezing sphere 07:40 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Mon Hum Fem Cha) made her first wish - "the blessed fixed +2 magicbane", on T:10203 (3:21:16) 07:42 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Mon Hum Fem Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:10271 (3:22:45) 07:44 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered the Bigroom, on T:25325 07:48 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 07:51 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered Moria, on T:33573 (6:20:17) 08:00 was able to gain two levels from pulling wraiths from a random DoD graveyard 08:06 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:1133 (0:47:24) 08:07 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 1042 points, T:1228, killed by the Goblin King 08:11 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (gelatinous cubes), on T:40180 (9:35:38) 08:22 -!- nurdglaw has joined #hardfought 08:25 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law) received advice from The Oracle, on T:3617 08:28 [hdf-us] [slth] nadi (Wiz Dro Fem Cha), 1424 points, T:1024, quit 08:30 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Anaraxis the Black, on T:36875 08:36 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:36986 (7:04:59) 08:40 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed the knight of 8sdfl, the former Gallant, on T:5082 08:40 -!- Arseniy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:50 "You are caught in the gas spore's explosion!  You are in full health." 08:50 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed the ghost of Zaphod, the former Rhizotomist, on T:5967 08:53 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) attained the rank of Mage (level 30), on T:78630 08:53 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) wished for "2 blessed potions of enlightenment", got "2 potions of enlightenment", on T:78631 08:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 24586 points, T:7831, killed by a dart 08:54 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Fem Neu) killed Grund, on T:34401 (20:41:34) 08:57 !PoM 08:57 APic: The moon is waning crescent; new moon in 1 day. 09:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nurdglaw (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 276 points, T:1336, killed by a small mimic 09:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Mother Hydra, on T:28518 09:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Father Dagon, on T:28520 09:15 [hdf-eu] [hackm] mobileuser (Cav Hum Mal Neu) became Ishtar's Envoy of Balance, on T:27648 (10:48:42) 09:20 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Dro Fem Cha) entered the Bigroom, on T:46552 09:21 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:39241 09:23 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) killed Thoth Amon, on T:45634 (10:47:06) 09:23 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:45636 (10:47:10) 09:25 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) had a large shield entrusted to her by Set, on T:45750 (10:49:11) 09:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 Tie-Dye Shirt of Shambhala", on T:28686 09:27 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) completed her quest without incident, on T:46003 (10:51:30) 09:28 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:28 -!- theRaisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 09:32 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of fire 09:33 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) genocided gnomes on a level in The Dungeons of Doom, on T:1 (0:00:02) 09:33 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of genocide 09:33 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Wiz Vam Fem Neu) genocided vampires on a level in The Dungeons of Doom, on T:1 (0:00:02) 09:33 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Wiz Vam Fem Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of genocide 09:35 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 219 points, T:414, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:35 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:35 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) performed his first annihilation (vampires), on T:1 09:36 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5th time), on T:79037 09:36 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Wiz Vam Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of annihilation 09:36 [hdf-us] [slth] post163 (Wiz Inc Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of genocide 09:37 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:11, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:38 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Hum Mal Law), 119 points, T:260, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:38 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Inf Nbn Cha), 4 points, T:66, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 10 points, T:70, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:39 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Dra Dro Nbn Cha), 15 points, T:14, slipped while mounting a saddled baby red dragon 09:40 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 217 points, T:144, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:40 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 50 points, T:89, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] skwrl (Bar Hum Mal Cha) entered the Bigroom, on T:6733 09:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed the parasitized embraced alider, on T:31350 09:56 -!- cathartes has joined #hardfought 09:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed the twitching four-armed changed, on T:31581 10:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) averted death, on T:31669 10:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed the clairvoyant changed, on T:31680 10:06 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Dro Fem Cha) was sent an incubus by Lolth, on T:48918 10:07 [hdf-eu] [xnh] breadmaster (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:12991 10:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:12 -!- fakepass has joined #hardfought 10:24 [hdf-us] [nh343] docpi (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 19612 points, T:6784, killed by a forest centaur 10:25 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 10:37 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered the Elemental Planes, on T:79570 10:37 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered Plane of Earth, on T:79570 10:40 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 1934 points, T:2573, killed by hallucinogen-distorted Ms. Demirci; the shopkeeper, while sleeping 10:40 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Cha) killed the invisible Center of All, on T:47784 10:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] WizzyTheWeird (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:2730 10:42 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered Plane of Air, on T:79625 10:46 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed Gollum, on T:1017 (0:03:53) 10:48 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered Plane of Fire, on T:79687 10:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:38241 10:50 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1721 (0:07:43) 10:51 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 2206 points, T:1863, killed by an orcish arrow 10:51 [hdf-us] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) was bestowed with Magicbane by Anhur, on T:52082 10:55 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 671 points, T:775, killed by a sewer rat 10:55 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered Plane of Water, on T:79734 10:55 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:56 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) genocided class ;, on T:79740 10:59 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 750 points, T:1027, killed by a hobbit zombie, while frozen by a monster's gaze 11:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] WizzyTheWeird (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 6258 points, T:4770, killed by a giant ant, while praying 11:03 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered the Astral Plane, on T:79800 11:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed the Nightmare, on T:37655 11:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] skwrl (Bar Hum Mal Cha) destroyed MoonPig's ghost, the former Sergeant, on T:9434 11:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] skwrl (Bar Hum Mal Cha) found Excalibur on the floor, on T:9435 11:04 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 273 points, T:805, killed by a boulder 11:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:6330 11:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:6347 11:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] skwrl (Bar Hum Mal Cha) was bestowed with Cleaver by Set, on T:9708 11:11 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) found Vorpal Blade carried by a monster, on T:79838 11:11 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:79840 11:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:38821 11:13 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:15 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) became literate by reading a book, on T:3124 (0:11:01) 11:16 so how can i protect against knockback as a human 11:16 apart from loadstone 11:16 (3.7.0) 11:17 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Death (2nd time), on T:79868 11:18 giantslayer 11:18 oh neat 11:19 thats actually a major buff lol 11:20 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3671 (0:15:27) 11:20 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 2654 points, T:3678, diseased by an orc zombie, while praying 11:20 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:79890 11:21 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:21 man i already want to try out a new build even though i didn't even finish my current game 11:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) murdered Hecubus, her faithful lesser homunculus, on T:312 (0:01:00) 11:21 3.7 has really exploded in variety (at least it feels that way to me) 11:24 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:79911 11:24 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) found Giantslayer carried by a monster, on T:79915 11:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] skwrl (Bar Hum Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a brown pudding, on T:10535 11:26 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed Gollum, on T:1249 (0:05:44) 11:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Traveler (level 14), on T:39487 11:27 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine (2nd time), on T:79927 11:28 think i will just drop my speed boots for wished ww boots 11:28 pain peko 11:28 dunno why i said that 11:29 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1819 (0:08:37) 11:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 boots of water walking", got "a greased pair of hiking boots", on T:20104 11:31 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 2402 points, T:2211, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted rothe 11:32 still gotta fooproof my boh i think 11:33 so i have to wield boh, then read non-cursed enchant weapon? 11:35 oh i don't actually have to do it and it doens't even seem to be possible in vanilla 11:35 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed Gollum, on T:987 (0:04:20) 11:36 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 3719347 points, T:79972, ascended 11:36 https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Grasshopper/nethack/dumplog/1688422179.nh.html 11:36 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1552 (0:05:35) 11:38 ...and so it was written in the Book of Grasshopper... 11:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] Celefoombor (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 1028 points, T:1926, killed by a dwarf 11:44 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Vam Mal Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2122 11:45 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) rejected atheism by offering a wood nymph corpse on an altar of Raijin, on T:3340 (0:14:31) 11:47 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 343 points, T:511, killed by a small mimic 11:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] Celefoombor (Cav Dwa Fem Law) used a helm to turn chaotic, on T:918 11:50 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:4647 11:51 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 6856 points, T:4273, diseased by a drow zombie, while praying 11:53 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 27 darts on an altar, on T:4928 11:53 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) became literate by naming Sting, on T:547 11:53 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law), 61475 points, T:12075, petrified by a cockatrice, while unable to move due to turning to stone 11:55 does polypiling for potions respect generation frequency? 11:55 i guess it does 11:56 got a blue DSM so i will transition my build after all 12:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 502 points, T:1082, killed by a werejackal 12:07 hmm 12:07 found a bug(?) with extrinsic telepathy: in vlads tower, the vampires show up as B. however, in at least one case it was a v, not a B 12:08 You can no longer sense the vampire bat. The fog cloud flows under the floor 12:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:22278 12:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:22279 12:09 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 8657 points, T:5545, killed by a vampire bat 12:10 -!- Sgeo has joined #hardfought 12:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 387 points, T:778, killed by a werejackal 12:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:22581 12:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] Celefoombor (Cav Dwa Fem Cha), 807 points, T:2942, killed by a giant spider 12:15 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Banneret (level 18), on T:22677 12:16 10 levels remaining 12:25 [hdf-us] [fh] sdfl (post163) (Kni Hum Fem Law), 3328 points, T:50, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 12:27 <@fredriq> what is a "trephination kit" 12:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Chevaliere (level 22), on T:22874 12:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) found Frost Brand on the floor, on T:835 12:29 -!- ChrisANG has joined #hardfought 12:29 sounds like something you would use to drill a hole in a skull 12:29 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Vam Mal Non), 11914 points, T:3676, killed by a human mummy 12:30 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 8 points, T:401, killed by a grid bug 12:32 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 396 points, T:1267, killed by an acidic corpse 12:41 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) found Snickersnee in a shop, on T:1614 12:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] Jack (Hdr-Wiz Dro Mal Law) killed the invisible Grue, on T:88021 12:49 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Hlf Mal Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2238 12:50 [hdf-eu] [dnh] FIQ (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 845 points, T:2370, killed by a gnome 12:53 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 12:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 12:55 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 12:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Jack (Hdr-Wiz Dro Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 seven league boots", on T:88256 12:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:3836 12:59 -!- oh6 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) attained the rank of Enchanter (level 14), on T:52602 13:00 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 13:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 3943 points, T:4711, killed by an ape 13:11 -!- funknut has joined #hardfought 13:14 -!- anselmus has joined #hardfought 13:15 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 13:15 -!- funknut has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] elky (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:3439 13:17 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:17 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 13:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) wished for "Blessed +3 fixed greased orange dragon scale mail", on T:2624 13:22 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 13:23 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:32 how many apples do you have to feed a pony to not fall off it at the start of the game? 13:32 [hdf-us] [slth] GemOfWonder (Dru Hum Fem Neu), 591 points, T:1408, killed by a giant bat 13:38 you slip if (u.ulevel + mtmp->mtame < rnd(MAXULEV / 2 + 5)) 13:38 MAXULEV is 30 so that becomes rnd(20) 13:38 so you want your XL + tameness to be greater than 20 13:39 XL is initially 1, tameness is initially 10, so you need to add 10 tameness to mount at level 1. 13:39 -!- Arseniy has joined #hardfought 13:39 tameness is maxed out at 20 13:40 wow that's a lot of apples 13:40 so its possible at xl1 13:40 probably just better to startscum it 13:40 going the way of the pots 13:40 yes 13:40 actually you only need the sum to be greater than or equal to 20, so only 9 additional tameness needed 13:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Law), 2240 points, T:2684, killed by a dwarf lady 13:43 [hdf-us] [slth] GemOfWonder (Chf Hum Fem Neu), 1304 points, T:1829, killed by a dingo puppy 13:43 <@post163> The wiki says knights start with 10-20 apples and 10-20 carrots (though I always immediately try to get on the pony on T:1 - I don't lose anything if I die on the first turn). 13:44 vanilla could really do with multistage_equip, but there are very good reasons to not pull that patch from NH4 13:44 I will have to think about a sensible way to reimplement it 13:47 the basic problem is to try to come up with an interface that correctly handles a multistage-equip action being interrupted 13:47 say, if I want to put on a shirt, while wearing a suit and cloak 13:47 I take off the suit and cloak, put on the shirt, then get interrupted 13:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:5262 13:48 now I can't continue the action by repeating "wear shirt", like you do with most interrupted actions in vanilla, because I'm already wearing the shirt 13:48 maybe "You are interrupted before you can put your suit and cloak back on." would be enough? 13:48 -!- docpi has joined #hardfought 13:49 <@shadow_rider> allow 0 turn equip and wield only sensible solution 13:49 i've noticed that in nh4 switching lev and speed boots is always interrupted 13:49 that would make some items even more overpowered 13:50 anselmus: oh, I didn't realise that, but now you've said it it isn't surprising 13:50 the change in levitation or speed status probably interrupts the equip 13:51 which resulted in me stepping in water of course 13:53 anselmus, why would you take off your levitation boots while still over water? 13:57 <@shadow_rider> yani: markers lose some charges if they get wet 13:57 <@fredriq> "<@ais523> vanilla could really do with multistage_equip, but there are very good reasons to not pull that patch from NH4" 13:57 <@fredriq> elaborate? 13:57 it makes the A interface too confusing for most players to follow 13:57 <@fredriq> oh you did 13:57 <@fredriq> wouldn't ^A work fine? 13:58 <@fredriq> it's how I tend to resume things 13:59 yes, unless you take another action in the meantime 13:59 and only in NH4 13:59 in vanilla ^A is "repeat", not "resume" – many actions can be resumed by repeating them, but not all of them 13:59 and this is a case where repeating doesn't resume 14:00 I would like to keep ^A as a repeat command, because then you can have an option to make the yes/no prompts (stepping into lava, eating an unsafe corpse) just say "I'm not doing this, but press ^A if you really want it". But for equip, you can unify W with P and T with R like nethack4 does and you get a free command 14:00 I wonder whether, if running (shift-direction) is interrupted in NH4 while you're moving at right angles to the original direction, ^A would continue running at right angles? 14:00 -!- Amorphia has joined #hardfought 14:00 !rng sg1 bsg 14:00 Amorphia: sg1 14:00 <@fredriq> ^A is heavily ingrained in my muscle memory 14:00 that said, multi-stage equip is weird, can you believe fighting with a heavy armor half-attached to you? there's a good reason you're helpless during that, though I'd also like anything but body armor cost just one turn 14:00 vanilla's current handling for W/R/P/T is pretty good – the interface doesn't suggest items that you're using the wrong command for, but they still work 14:00 thanks Beholder 14:00 -!- Amorphia has left #hardfought 14:00 <@fredriq> played a couple of DCSS runs recently and I constantly disabled autopickup by accident 14:01 however, if you are only wearing one piece of jewellery, R removes it without asking waht to remove 14:01 <@fredriq> because it's mapped to C-a by default 14:01 were you trying to resume or repeat? 14:01 <@fredriq> resume 14:01 <@fredriq> and occasionally (but rarely), repeat 14:01 I use ^A for kicking ghosts 14:02 saves re-entering the direction 14:02 <@fredriq> I've played some dnethack runs today. It doesn't allow you to displace pets in travel (same as 3.4.3), which kept throwing me off 14:02 <@fredriq> Yeah I've done that too a bunch of times 14:02 3.7 lets you displace peacefuls in travel 14:02 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law) received advice from The Oracle, on T:3908 14:02 although if you want to help on the helplessness, you could allow intelligent pets with hands adjacent to you to help you so you put on or take off body armor faster 14:02 <@fredriq> Yeah, it's pretty nice 14:02 I think this is probably an improvement 14:03 <@fredriq> I should maybe make a PR that allows displacing pets and peacefuls in dnh 14:03 that would also allow for some funny special case YAFMs 14:03 b_jonas: by that point of the game you're unlikely to need to change armor much 14:03 <@fredriq> it's IMO the most annoying part with dnethack pets 14:03 <@fredriq> besides that, dnethack pets have done similar efforts as fiqhack has 14:03 true 14:03 <@fredriq> in terms of making pets far less annoying to manage 14:03 fwiw, I think the equip system that would give the best *gameplay* is "you can only equip and unequip items at certain special spots in the dungeon" but that makes no flavor sense 14:03 <@fredriq> they actually move intelligently, and IIRC they get intrinsics too 14:03 <@fredriq> and pets can use a bunch of monster-specific abilities in dnh 14:04 <@fredriq> such as dragonbreath and monster spells 14:04 [hdf-us] [slth] GemOfWonder (Ele Hum Fem Law), 1480 points, T:2210, killed by a watch captain 14:04 <@fredriq> @chrisang you should port cooperative telepathy 😛 14:04 pets can use dragonbreath even in 3.6 14:05 is cooperative telepathy meant as a balance improvement, or did you just think it would be fun? 14:05 <@fredriq> Yeah, but they don't use offensive monster spells 14:05 <@fredriq> @ais523 it is meant to help you track pets 14:05 <@fredriq> and it also makes sense thematically IMO 14:05 <@fredriq> (mutual telepathy enhancing sensing of others i mean) 14:05 <@fredriq> note that in fiqhack, it applies to both allied and hostile monsters 14:06 <@fredriq> so you can see floating eyes too, and mind flayers ... and vice versa 🙂 14:06 what's the intended way to track nearby enemies that you can't otherwise detect? warning? 14:06 <@fredriq> xNetHack and EvilHack ported cooperative telepathy to their own variants 14:06 docpi: i wasn't over water, but assumed i was now wearing lev and stepped into water 14:06 doesn't NH4 warn you about that? 14:06 -!- mobileuser has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06 unless stunned/confused/unable to see the water 14:06 <@fredriq> warn you against what? 14:07 <@fredriq> oh that 14:07 <@chrisang> Like, a telepathic pet lets you "borrow" their telepathy? 14:07 <@fredriq> @chrisang no 14:07 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) wished for "fixed +2 helm of brilliance", on T:40764 14:07 <@fredriq> if you have telepathy 14:07 <@fredriq> and a monster has telepathy (pet, peaceful or hostile) 14:07 <@fredriq> you can sense each other across the entire level 14:07 <@fredriq> even if both of you have intrinsic telepathy 14:07 right i didn't notice the message only said that i had removed the speed boots but hadn't put on lev yet 14:08 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) wished for "fixed +2 gauntlets of power", on T:40768 14:08 <@fredriq> in FIQHack, it says "[seen: cooperative telepathy]", IIRC xnethack and Evil just says "seen: telepathy" 14:08 basically the autowear doesn't work in this case 14:08 <@chrisang> In dnh you can sense pets within your beastmaster radius. It helps keep track of pets nearby/prevent friendly fire incidents. 14:08 not being able to distinguish between lit corridor and unlit corridor in 3.7 curses is really annoying when you are intentionally lighting corridors 14:08 <@fredriq> ais523: can you do it in tty? 14:08 <@chrisang> I wouldn't be opposed to cooperative telepathy. 14:09 <@fredriq> I'm pretty sure curses doesn't do anything special with the level amp 14:09 @fredriq: you could in 3.4.3 14:09 how would cooperative telepathy work? 14:09 I think, with certain options 14:09 <@fredriq> after my curses changes, pets were for a time represented with a blue background 14:09 there's a lit_corridor option but I can't remember whether you ahd to turn it on or off 14:09 <@fredriq> but someone on DT seems to have removed it from the 3.6 port 14:10 <@fredriq> that was the only change from tty I believe 14:10 Is the sensing pets within beastmaster radius thing what causes stuff like "[seen: normal vision, scent, ]" (the weird trailing comma and space)? 14:10 <@fredriq> lol Noisytoot 14:10 <@fredriq> probably 14:10 <@fredriq> @chrisang what is beastmaster radius exactly? 14:11 <@fredriq> but yeah, I suppose it would fill a similar niche. Although, I also added cooperative telepathy for flavour reasons 😛 14:11 <@fredriq> and it does apply to all, not just allies 14:11 has any variant done a complete overhaul of tile traps? 14:12 <@fredriq> I don't think so 14:12 <@fredriq> Some variants add new traps 14:12 <@fredriq> but not a major overhaul 14:12 <@chrisang> Oh, quite possibly. Small. re: radius. I think 1 at Basic, 2 at Skilled, and 3 at Expert. Might be 1 at unskilled 2 B/3 S/4 E though 😕 14:12 <@fredriq> Yeah that's barely going to do anything lol 14:12 <@chrisang> It's also the radius that pets follow you between levels at. 14:13 [hdf-us] [slth] GemOfWonder (Fir Hob Fem Law), 1358 points, T:1270, killed by a dingo puppy 14:14 It's the latter 14:14 Otherwise pets wouldn't follow you at all with unskilled 14:14 oh, I forgot to say. ais523: you probably already know, but I can't load https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla : An error occurred during a connection to roguelikes.live. SSL received a record that exceeded the maximum permissible length. Error code: SSL_ERROR_RX_RECORD_TOO_LONG 14:15 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (arch-liches), on T:41062 (8:25:34) 14:15 b_jonas: yes, I already know 14:15 I don't run that website, and in fact have forgotten who does 14:15 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) genocided master liches, on T:41063 (8:25:54) 14:16 -!- cathartes has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:16 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:16 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 14:17 YANI: as an option, every time a command finishes processing or the screen updates, make some small subtle change (e.g. a pattern gradually moving around the border of the map) so that, when on a laggy connection, you can tell whether your command has been processed or not 14:18 ais523: TTY_TILES_ESCCODES already has a code for it 14:18 ESC [ 1 ; 3 z: End of data. NetHack has finished sending data, and is waiting for input. 14:19 paxed: yes but it isn't visible to the player 14:19 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Cha) averted death, on T:16584 14:20 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 14:20 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20 hmm, that lowercase z may clash with something in the standards 14:20 no, it doesn't 14:20 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 14:21 stenno, how's the run 14:21 I think there's probably a namespace for custom codes 14:21 currently struggling to reach xl30 14:21 apart from that, it should be in dry towels 14:22 hi ais523 14:22 -!- cathartes has joined #hardfought 14:23 the standard writes the character codes in hex, and the hex digits in decimal 14:23 which makes it a pain to find any given code in it 14:23 <@fredriq> I had a n idea some years about a role that instadied upon reaching xl30 and had drain resistance 14:23 <@fredriq> *race 14:23 z is, what, 07/10 in that notation? 14:23 [hdf-us] [slth] GemOfWonder (Gee Hum Fem Neu), 1852 points, T:1358, killed by a fire ant 14:23 it is, in fact, not there, which is surprising 14:25 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry about my connection] 14:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) was given Atlantean Royal Sword, on T:10327 14:25 what if that but XL30 was the alternate win condition instead 14:26 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 14:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 14:26 ascending to another plane after experiencing everything possible in this one 14:26 for anyone interested, https://www.ecma-international.org/wp-content/uploads/ECMA-48_5th_edition_june_1991.pdf is the actual standard that describes terminal control codes 14:26 but it's pretty hard to read 14:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) found the Eye of the Aethiopica carried by a monster, on T:55153 14:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Dark One, on T:55154 14:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:55155 14:27 <@fredriq> "<@ais523> YANI: as an option, every time a command finishes processing or the screen updates, make some small subtle change (e.g. a pattern gradually moving around the border of the map) so that, when on a laggy connection, you can tell whether your command has been processed or not" 14:28 <@fredriq> I think that's why softwared intended to be used through ssh/etc discourages not having a way to have a guranteed "clear out of all menus" button 14:28 ais523: don't you think that if someone wrote a custom escape sequence, checking if the suffix is already taken would be the first thing to do? 14:28 ooh, it seems that the lowercase letters from `q` onwards are reserved for private use, so `z` is in fact acceptable 14:29 stenno: my experience is that few terminals follow the relevant standards, they basically just copy each other and aim for compatibility with practical programs 14:29 @fredriq: NetHack can't really do that because of wish prompts 14:29 and the like 14:29 <@fredriq> NH4 has ctrl+c 14:30 yes 14:30 I was really happy to find that there was a key combination that was already fully unused, easy to type, unambiguous to parse and has approximately the right meaning 14:30 (well, vanilla will interpret it as #quit sometimes via the SIGINT from the terminal, but breaking that is probably something that's actively good) 14:31 <@fredriq> how does modern vanilla deal with SIGHUP 14:31 it attempts to save the game, I think 14:32 not sure how successful it is on average 14:32 <@fredriq> iirc I once had to ask k2 for a manual recovery when my connection died in the middle of a levelchange 14:33 <@fredriq> not the best moment for it to chcoose death 14:33 <@fredriq> the fact that it isn't perfect is the reason that 3.4.3-nao disqualifies games with SIGHUP from leaving bones I think 14:34 <@fredriq> idk if any other variant does this 14:34 is there actually a good reason for the game to archive all the level files together when you save? I can see an argument for leaving them loose, then recover wouldn't be needed at all 14:34 3.4.3-nao disqualifies games with SIGHUP from leaving bones because hangup bugs were being actively exploited to make bones griefing easier 14:35 <@fredriq> no idea but I've noticed that the game handles code trouble during levelchange remarkably poorly 14:35 [hdf-us] [slth] GemOfWonder (Gee Hum Fem Neu), 653 points, T:1312, killed by a dingo puppy 14:35 i used sighup once to prevent bohsplosion on a --more-- prompt 14:35 <@fredriq> dNAO used to be able to generate exactly 127 dungeon levels sometimes 14:35 <@fredriq> due to what I assume is an off-by-1 error somewhere, this caused the game to only partially work 14:35 if people are going to exploit bugs, that's one thing, but using them to interfere with other people's games is something that needed stopping 14:35 <@fredriq> trying to revisit previous levels would crash the game 14:36 <@fredriq> and the save was impossible to rescue (even if you restored from backup, the save was doomed) 14:36 I think it was me who implemented the "hangup blocks leaving bones" in NAO for that reason 14:37 <@fredriq> because you couldn't avoid revisiting Dlvl1 14:37 <@fredriq> I think you can avoid revisiting every other dungeon level in the game 14:37 via lots of controlled levport? 14:37 <@fredriq> and branchporting 14:37 this sounds like a silly conduct run 14:37 <@fredriq> actually idk if branchport can take you to an unvisited level 14:37 or, hmm, what about the asc run? 14:38 <@fredriq> so it might be impossible 14:38 branchport can't, it takes you to the last visited level in the branch you choose 14:38 branchport skip probably still works in dnh 14:38 <@fredriq> you can't leave the Quest through levelport 14:38 even then, say you branchport to the top level of the Mines 14:38 branchport cannot take you to an unvisited level 14:38 <@fredriq> yeah I forgot about the Amulet, you'd need to deal with that too 14:38 how do you get into the Dungeons without revisiting a level? you can't branchport to branches you haven't visited 14:39 getting really lucky with falling into holes 14:39 at least on the way down 14:39 but in order to get into the mines, you need to have visited the level with the mines branch stairs 14:39 and then you end up on that level when you leave the mines 14:39 [hdf-us] [slth] GemOfWonder (Gla Hum Fem Law), 863 points, T:808, killed by a wererat 14:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 24 points, T:35, killed by a kobold 14:40 how do you go back up bypassing dlvl 1? 14:40 holes don't help at all 14:40 Noisytoot: dlvl 1 was mentioned as an exception, we're trying to establish if it's theo nly one 14:40 you cannot avoid visiting the alignment quest branch levels in dnh, or the valley of the dead 14:41 <@fredriq> if not for the Amulet, and if Quest allowed levelport, you could do this: D1 -> Dquest -> Quest1 -> Quest5 (silver bell) -> somewhere within D1-quest exclusive -> VotD -> Wiztower top floor (papyrus book) -> Gvlad (you might be there already if it's at wiztower top) -> Vlad (candelabrum) -> Gvotd-wiztower/vlad exclusive -> VS -> Sanctum 14:41 vlad is also at the top of the mines 14:41 <@fredriq> dNetHack allows you to skip the Quest, so you can in fact avoid revisiting any level until you get the Amulet 14:41 <@fredriq> because I think you can levelport out of Neutral Quest 14:42 you can levelport in it if you have the silver key (otherwise it is limited to one level at a time) and branchport out of it 14:42 <@fredriq> Yeah, but branchport never takes you to a level you haven't visited 14:42 <@fredriq> so you can't use branchport 14:43 <@fredriq> also dnethack might give you trouble with vlad, idk if you can levelport from vlad back to dungeons 14:43 you can't 14:44 <@fredriq> Yeah, so vanilla gives you trouble with quest (can't levelport out), and dnethack gives problems with both neutral quest (can't levelport out) and vlad (same) 14:44 you can in vanilla but dnethack might be different 14:44 (it takes you to the castle level) 14:45 <@fredriq> you want to port from vlad to somewhere within gehennom, not castle 14:45 <@fredriq> otherwise you visit votd twice 14:45 <@fredriq> and then from gehennom to VS 14:45 the top of vlad's tower can be negative 14:45 <@fredriq> But yeah, because you can't leave the quest through level teleporation, you can't avoid revisting Dquest 14:45 if you try to go above, you die or escape, if you to go below, you go to the mines 14:45 all this sounds like a reason to have a non-tree-shaped dungeon graph 14:45 it would be more interesting if it had cycles in 14:45 s/you to go/you try to go/ 14:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) was given their Quest, on T:13170 14:46 <@fredriq> ais523: this might be some NH4 bug, but iirc I once branchported to an unvisited Sokoban level in NH4 (the top floor) 14:46 and would also make no-level-revisits more viable 14:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) wished for "Blessed fixed greased bag of holding", on T:13175 14:46 @fredriq: I doubt vanilla would get that wrong 14:46 <@fredriq> if that still works, you could in fact successfully go all the way to the Amulet 14:47 <@fredriq> without any level revisit 14:47 OTOH, it is very likely that *AceHack* would get that sort of thing wrong 14:47 it has had several bugs of that general nature 14:47 <@fredriq> you would need to change things a bit 14:47 that said, I tried to avoid pulling that sort of patch into NH4 because it had caused so much trouble in AceHack 14:47 <@fredriq> D1 -> Dsoko -> Soko bottom -> D (soko-5 levelport) -> (the same as I mentioned above, but branchport to Sokoban from Quest5) 14:50 <@fredriq> so, assuming D10 has soko upstairs, D13 has quest portal, G35 has wiztower, G36 has vlad and, the entire trip would look as such: D1 -> D10 -> S9 -> D5 -> D13 -> Q1 -> Q5 (bell) -> S6 -> D4 -> Gvotd -> G35 (book) -> G36 -> V35 -> V33 (candelabrum) -> G34 -> VS 14:52 <@fredriq> ais523: fun fact: FIQHack sokoban holes can drop you into Dungeons 14:53 I like that change 14:53 <@fredriq> and the first floor doesn't have pits anymore 14:53 Uh oh 14:53 * APic likes the good old NetHack4 😌 14:53 <@fredriq> Heh 14:53 what does the first floor have? 14:54 <@fredriq> holes 14:54 * ais523 sells Izchak a wand of light, to be able to afford a magic lamp 14:55 <@fredriq> ais523: however, the first implementation had soome... interesting bugs. Sometimes, leaving a branch wouldn't work properly and the game would instead overwrite other parts of the dungeon with branch data for the one you were at 14:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] ais523 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 1627 points, T:3003, killed by a fire ant 14:55 and then I died to lag 14:55 fair enough 14:55 or, well, I accidentally double-pressed "move left" and died in that timespan 14:55 <@fredriq> so you could overwrite quest with Mines floors, or vice versa 14:56 <@fredriq> so when the game loaded those levels, the game noticed that it already had floors with that z-ID 14:56 scrolls and potions in open inventory are just too dangerous in 3.7 at present 14:56 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:5546 14:56 <@fredriq> that bug, more than anything else, reminded me of the... fun stuff you could get in old console game glitches 14:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 58 points, T:39, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 14:56 <@fredriq> with the game reading random data as other stuff 14:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 5 points, T:25, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 14:56 [hdf-eu] [spl] post163 (Dra Hum Nbn Neu), 4 points, T:11, slipped while mounting a saddled baby violet dragon 14:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) murdered his faithful kitten, on T:1 14:57 it is possible that I would have survived if not burdened 14:57 <@fredriq> general NetHack wisdom is to not be burdened 14:57 <@post163> !lastgame ais523 14:57 @post163: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/a/ais523/nethack/dumplog/1689528584.nh.html 14:57 <@fredriq> it's a healthy mindset 14:57 indeed 14:57 <@fredriq> also I thought you liked minimalist play 14:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1591 points, T:2892, killed by a wolf 14:57 it was only for a few turns moving between shops (needed to be riding to not be burdened with the magic lamps I had just bought) 14:57 I do, but Knights start pretty close to carry cap 14:58 <@fredriq> earlier, I had an absolutely stacked tool shop in dNAO 14:58 as stated previously, the real cause of death was carrying too many scrolls and potions in open inventory 14:58 <@fredriq> one candle of invocation (can be invoked for a guranteed wish, a guranteed tame ally of your choice, or summoning a hostile demon lord of your choice), 2 magic lamps, 2 magic markers and 2 BoHs 14:58 why are all 4 lamps lit? 14:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed the invisible Thoth Amon, on T:14416 14:58 Noisytoot: they weren't until the last turn 14:59 but I died to a fire ant bite 14:59 so they all caught fire 14:59 <@post163> Where else should potions/scrolls be kept if the player has not found a bag? Left on the floor for a hostile to pick up and use? 14:59 <@fredriq> aren't knights the role that tends to be the most likely to end up getting freebie Str points 14:59 <@fredriq> to avoid starting burdened 14:59 I usually leave them on a container, or another level if I haven't found one yet 14:59 @post163: the real trick is to leave them just next to the stairs, then immediately leave the level 14:59 s/on/in/ 14:59 then you can reach them before the monsters do when you return 15:00 <@fredriq> ^ I lost that game with the toolshop due to a random freezing sphere a gnomish wizard summoned that I didn't see due to lag 15:00 most stashing techniques got nerfed over time, but that one is still really powerful 15:00 <@fredriq> which is why I brought it up 😛 15:00 <@fredriq> no bones either 😦 15:00 @d?freezing sphere 15:00 freezing sphere (e) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 13 | Res: cold poison | Confer: cold | MR: 0 | Gen: dungeons | AC: Nat 6/Dodge 0/Prot 0 | Atk: 4d6 explode cold, 2d6 suicide explode cold | Align: 0 | genocidable, flies, breathless, mindless, infravis, vegan 15:01 that is a weird attack sequence 15:01 it has a more powerful attack, then explodes for a less powerful attack? 15:01 @v?freezing sphere 15:01 freezing sphere (e) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 9 | Spd: 13 | Res: cold | Confer: cold | MR: 0 | Gen: dungeons | AC: 4 | Atk: 4d6 explode cold | Align: 0 | genocidable, flies, breathless, mindless, infravis 15:01 or, hmm, maybe the latter is a passive? 15:01 one is active, the other one is passive, i assume 15:01 that was my inclination, yeah 15:01 <@fredriq> I think one of those attacks is a passive 15:01 but shouldn't passives have 0dx ? 15:02 <@fredriq> no 15:02 0dx means it's level-based 15:02 <@fredriq> 0d denotes level-dependant 15:02 ^ 15:02 @v?floating eye 15:02 floating eye (e) | Lvl: 2 | Diff: 3 | Spd: 1 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 10 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 9 | Atk: 0d70 passive paralyze | Align: 0 | genocidable, flies, amphibious, infravis 15:02 no, a 0 means that the attack is level-scaling 15:02 <@fredriq> not passive 15:02 or 0d0 means it doesn't damage at all 15:02 @?dwarf lord 15:02 dwarf lord (h) | Lvl: 4 | Diff: 6 | Spd: 6 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 10 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 10 | Atk: 2d4 weapon physical, 2d4 weapon physical | Align: 5 | genocidable, omnivore, tunnels, tunnels, infravis 15:02 0d70 passive 15:02 @d?dwarf lord 15:02 dwarf lord (h) | Lvl: 4 | Diff: 6 | Spd: 6 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 10 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: Nat 0/Dodge 0/Prot 0 | Atk: 2d4 weapon physical, 2d4 offhanded-weapon physical | Align: 5 | genocidable, omnivore, nopoly, tunnels, infravis 15:02 I think a better example might be 15:02 @?ochre jelly 15:02 ochre jelly (j) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 3 | Res: acid petrification | Confer: acid | MR: 20 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 8 | Atk: 3d6 engulf acid, 3d6 passive acid | Align: 0 | genocidable, amorphous, breathless, mindless, passes-bars, vegan 15:02 @?blue jelly 15:02 blue jelly (j) | Lvl: 4 | Diff: 5 | Spd: 0 | Res: cold poison | Confer: cold poison | MR: 10 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 8 | Atk: 0d6 passive cold | Align: 0 | genocidable, amorphous, breathless, mindless, passes-bars, vegan 15:02 <@fredriq> unless it's AT_AREA in fiqhack in which the XdY is overloaded to mean something else entirely 15:02 <@fredriq> iirc the "number of dice" is radius 15:02 @d?dwarf king 15:02 dwarf king (h) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 6 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 20 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: Nat 0/Dodge 0/Prot 0 | Atk: 2d6 weapon physical, 2d6 offhanded-weapon physical | Align: 6 | genocidable, omnivore, tunnels, infravis 15:03 that's wrong, dwarf kings actually have A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 0, 6), ATTK(AT_XWEP, AD_PHYS, 0, 6)) 15:03 hmm, it looks like I got unlucky with speed randomization from being burdened *in addition to* the typo, and in addition to having too many scrolls and potions in open inventory 15:03 <@fredriq> (AT_AREA is auras, somewhat similar to how dcss halos/silence fields work if you're familiar with them) 15:03 pino probably isn't updated yet or s/t lol 15:03 <@fredriq> affecting monsters within an area in LOS 15:03 like a widegaze? 15:03 <@fredriq> yes 15:03 anyway, blue jelly has the based-on-level passive, ochre jelly has the "set die" one 15:04 <@fredriq> floating eyes has a slowing aura 15:04 <@fredriq> Archons have a stunning one iirc 15:04 <@fredriq> both can be prevented by blindness 15:04 <@fredriq> zombies have a zombie-inducing aura which causes corpses to revive as zombies, and prevents minor zombification from wearing off naturally 15:04 <@fredriq> (this one isn't prevented by blindness) 15:04 @d?carcosan courtier 15:04 No such monster. 15:05 <@fredriq> also I don't think fiqhack archons can blind anymore 15:06 <@fredriq> they just stun if you aren't currently blind 15:07 <@fredriq> perhaps I should make aura attacks have a visiblle effect on the dungeon 15:07 <@fredriq> to make those attacks more clear in what they affect 15:07 <@fredriq> recoloring tiles 15:07 <@fredriq> depending on attack type 15:08 will cansee be true if i see the monster via extrinsic telepathy? 15:08 assuming los 15:08 <@fredriq> no idea but iirc there was some confusion about those with fireball/cone of cold in the past 15:08 <@fredriq> leading those spells to be ridiculously OP 15:08 <@fredriq> I wonder if the trick still works in GruntHack 15:08 <@fredriq> which is where it originated 15:09 <@fredriq> that code made its way into all NH4 variants, dnethack and even vanilla 15:09 ais523: doing rodney zoo with Ch:18 XL:23 15:09 and conflict 15:09 lets see how it goes 15:09 i just try to not move 15:09 <@fredriq> back when this trick worked, fireball+cone of cold were my favorite spells 😛 15:10 @d?jrt netjer 15:10 No such monster. 15:10 stenno: I want to try a petless pacifist Astral in wizmode at some point 15:10 <@fredriq> it was very satifying to be able to hurl fireballs and cones of cold 8 tiles away through walls 🙂 15:10 interesting idea 15:10 i am still pressing space lol 15:11 <@fredriq> ais523: how would you do it? 15:11 <@fredriq> fear? 15:11 permaconflict 15:11 ais523: just the astral? 15:11 <@fredriq> ahh 15:11 permaconflict, yes 15:11 <@fredriq> if it's just astral, an endgame and prepared player should be able to do it just fine 15:11 with, like, high level preparation and equipment brought to it? 15:11 come to think of it, a ?oSM would probably help too 15:11 yesterday you cleared the starting hall with tourist starting equipment 15:11 <@fredriq> telewands, conflict as mentioned, fear 15:12 which was the proof that it works 15:12 now i am doing a permaconflict build for the first time 15:12 yes, but then I died to a Rider because there was nothing left to conflict into attacking it 15:12 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12 right 15:12 that would be the problem 15:12 I have no idea how viable that is because I haven't really used conflict and don't know its mechanics 15:12 <@fredriq> riders can be scared 15:12 <@fredriq> by using expensive cameras 15:12 the hard part is dealing with the riders, I think 15:12 <@fredriq> also you could zap tele at them 15:12 <@fredriq> to move them 15:13 <@fredriq> they will move next to you, but this can be behind you 15:13 but a conflicted death will level drain the other riders, which in turn become more susceptible to conflict 15:13 <@fredriq> then you can just, idk, paralyze them or something 15:13 can you trap the riders with boulders? 15:13 it's a bit difficult to set up but i really try to do that 15:13 <@fredriq> no 15:13 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 15:13 <@fredriq> they destroy boulders 15:13 wands of create monster? 15:13 <@fredriq> 3.6 Riders can displace monsters 15:14 also doesn't Death resist conflict too often? 15:14 conflict got accidentally buffed, in an attempt to nerf it 15:14 <@fredriq> it would still retaliate 15:14 <@fredriq> from conflicted attacks 15:14 <@fredriq> I assume 15:15 <@fredriq> ais523: lol nice 15:15 <@fredriq> what happened? 15:15 b_jonas: with XL30 and CH:18, with average dungeon depth, Death will get conflicted each turn with a ~65% 15:15 chance 15:15 <@fredriq> btw 15:15 <@fredriq> idk if you are aware of this 15:15 <@fredriq> but at least in 3.4.3 (idk with 3.6), there are a ton of Conflict checks 15:15 <@fredriq> that doesn't check for resisted conflict 15:16 it was something i noticed when it was first introduced, but i messed up my test build because i was invisible 15:16 I'm aware of that, the code for conflict is replicated all over the place and often not exactly the same 15:16 i asked ais to test it friday in wizmode , and it worked 15:16 so that is the new conflict meta 15:16 I see 15:16 <@fredriq> the countless conflict checks means I wouldn't be surprised if I accidentally added bugs when I revamped how conflict works in my own variant 15:17 <@fredriq> stenno: but Riders can see invisible, no? 15:17 I thought Death basically resists everything except raw physical damage 15:17 b_jonas: new conflict ignores monmr 15:17 @?Death 15:17 <@fredriq> Death can also be slimed 15:17 Death (&) | Lvl: 30 | Diff: 34 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison petrification drain | Confer: nothing | MR: 100 | Gen: unique | AC: -5 | Atk: 8d8 touch Death, 8d8 touch Death | Align: 0 | flies, regen, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker, infravis 15:17 @fiq but aligned priests dont 15:17 not acid either 15:18 <@fredriq> or at least used to be able to 15:18 <@fredriq> yeenoghu touch of death 15:18 overall, when visible, I don't think conflict has become much (or at all?) weaker in most cases? 15:18 Riders don't resist magic missile, just all 'elemental' forms of damage 15:18 <@fredriq> basically everyone drinks gain ability (even if it isn't really necessary) to max their attributes 15:19 <@fredriq> so most characters should have 18 cha by the time they have conflict sources 15:19 I drink gain ability but not to that extent 15:19 so my charisma's normally somewhere around 12 as a valk 15:19 at endgame 15:19 I drink gain ability and sit on magic traps to try to max all of my attributes 15:19 <@fredriq> I consider magic missile to be elemental 15:20 <@fredriq> but then again I consider all dragonbreaths to be elemental 15:20 100% fail for magic misisle lol 15:20 I do not 15:20 i guess its the GoP 15:20 I do try to push STR as high as possible and 18 as many stats as I can but I'm not like 15:20 ultra pressed about it usually 15:20 stenno, what's the rest of the armor 15:21 how annoyed would people be if I changed gray dragons to be a different color? say, lime or brown 15:21 <@fredriq> I wonder how many bugs swapping topmost and bottommost dragon in monst.c would introduce 15:21 I would boycott the game 15:21 <@fredriq> it's a gray dragon 15:21 <@fredriq> it should be gray 15:21 or whatever variant this was done in 15:21 :B 15:21 <@fredriq> ais523: but why 15:21 the gain would be to allow all the dragons to be distinguishable from dragon statues, when using 3.6-style statues 15:21 <@fredriq> statues are white 15:21 I prefer 3.4.3 alchemy to 3.6 because I can make lots of gain ability 15:21 <@fredriq> it's ambiguous not with gray dragons 15:21 I guess it might be possible to make the *statues* brown, but then a lot more monsters would need recoloring 15:21 <@fredriq> but with white ones 15:22 <@fredriq> I consider this to be a really annoying feature 15:22 <@fredriq> and the worst part 15:22 <@fredriq> is that there's no way to revert to old behaviour 15:22 <@fredriq> and this surprises me tbh, I got the impression that they cared about accessibility 15:22 Umbire: won't you mostly miss him with magic missile? 15:22 <@fredriq> given various ways they've gone about assisting blind play 15:22 lmao no 15:22 <@fredriq> making more ambiguous symbols sounds counterproductive 15:22 I think NH4 asciitiles actually implements 3.6-style statues, but it's off by default 15:23 ais523: I wouldn't be annoyed, but I recommend changing disint rays to that color too 15:23 I've magic missiled Death to uh, death in at least one of my knight ascensions 15:23 @fredriq: don't expect the devteam to have a unified view on anything 15:23 if not both 15:23 probably my wiz asc too 15:23 ok lets go 15:23 ais523: D&D black dragons don't use disintegration ray so the color association isn't too strong 15:23 <@fredriq> yeah I tend to zap death with missiles 15:23 <@fredriq> in my games if I have to deal with him 15:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:23616 15:23 <@fredriq> D&D black dragon is acid, right? 15:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:23621 15:24 by the astral plane you're gonna have every acc boost necessary for that spell 15:24 also slight tangent but Un has underlines for statues iirc 15:24 <@fredriq> ais523: fiqhack colors the glyphs the same as the monster 15:24 <@fredriq> but the glyphs remain the same 15:24 correct, far as Forgotten Realms go anyway 15:24 oh, NH4 asciitiles can do that too 15:24 <@fredriq> I was unaware that there was a way to do it the 3.6 way 15:25 <@fredriq> but even if I knew of it, I would refrain lol 15:25 I don't see the advantage of that, when there's a statue I'm usually not too interested what monster it's a statue of 15:25 <@fredriq> also I've contemplated if it would be feasible to allow users to make custom themes in NH4+friends 15:25 so for a statue tile, the "statue"ness is basically just applying overrides to the underlying monster tile 15:25 <@fredriq> that automatically get compiled by the tileset compiler thingy 15:25 <@fredriq> as a usable tileset in-game 15:25 the monster matters if it's a statue trap 15:25 <@fredriq> via dgamelaunch 15:25 doing it on-server is the hard part 15:25 it already works locally 15:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:23649 15:26 Noisytoot: if it's a statue trap, it matters that it's not a boulder, so don't color statues the same as boulders, that's all 15:26 <@fredriq> it shouldn't really be any harder than enhanced watchmode 15:26 <@fredriq> that already required modifications to dgamelaunch 15:26 <@fredriq> since it is launching the game with special options 15:26 <@fredriq> and with a path to the player to be watched's save 15:26 presumably this would be purely for asciitiles 15:26 <@fredriq> er, not their save 15:27 <@fredriq> iirc it just points to the username 15:27 <@fredriq> with the game loading the most recently modified save 15:27 <@fredriq> under the assumption that this is the correct one 15:27 the graphical stuff doesn't seem useful on a public server – even when using vt_tiledata/hterm, the graphics/tile correspondence isn't being done by the game client 15:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 20 points, T:1, caught himself in his own ball of lightning 15:27 <@fredriq> this isn't necessarily true (the player might be in the main menu) but it's good enoug 15:27 <@fredriq> *good enough 15:27 <@fredriq> ais523: yeah this was meant for asciitiles 15:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] nebula42 (Val Hum Fem Law) found Cleaver in a shop, on T:689 15:28 YASI: ascii-art tiles that cover more than a single character position on the terminal 15:28 [hdf-eu] [hackm] mobileuser (Cav Hum Mal Neu) killed Kroo the Kobold King, on T:32098 (12:43:25) 15:29 it probably wouldn't be too hard to implement but I doubt there'd be any reason to actually use it 15:29 <@fredriq> the fact that libuncursed just straight-up doesn't allow colors >16 while still allowing utf8 characters is a bit odd to me 15:29 <@fredriq> both can be unsupported 15:29 <@fredriq> why support one but not the other? 15:29 because colors >16 can't be reliably detected and do weird things if you try 15:29 whereas UTF-8-ness can be reliably detected 15:30 <@fredriq> hmmm I suppose 15:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:23776 15:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:23778 15:30 <@fredriq> but there ought to be possible to tell libuncursed that I don't care about this concern and that it should try anyway 😛 15:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) was given Water Flowers, on T:18390 15:30 <@fredriq> so that I can do it for e.g. a custom tileset 15:31 <@fredriq> (which is already user-defined anyway) 15:31 there are some unreliable ways to detect, e.g. if the terminal supports telling you what the palette is and it has more than 16 entries, or if it echoes most invalid codes but not the colon-based codes for setting colors beyond 16 15:31 DL:52 is sanctum :( 15:31 so -5% chance 15:31 unlucky 15:31 I think in a new version of libuncursed, I would aim to support 24-bit color 15:31 <@fredriq> 5% for what? 15:32 however, even for terminals that support parsing it, you get a lot of weird rendering consequences 15:32 -5% chance of conflicting a rider 15:32 <@fredriq> how is sanctum depth related to rider conflict? 15:32 <@fredriq> this sound bizarre 15:32 the Linux console (fbcon) understands the 24-bit color code, but quantises it to the nearest available color in the palette 15:32 more monster conflict in general 15:32 @fredriq: monster level adjustment based on level difficulty 15:32 maximum reached depth is ascension run depth 15:32 @fiq - 15:32 that 15:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) became the Glory of Arioch, on T:18523 15:32 <@fredriq> with "Linux console", do you mean what you get iwth alt+f3 etc? 15:32 yeah what ais said 15:33 @fredriq: right 15:33 <@fredriq> ahh 15:33 and each monster level costs me 5% 15:33 <@fredriq> ascension run depth shouldn't care about sanctum depth 15:33 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 15:33 <@fredriq> that's just weird 15:33 what if you got more than 18 cha? 15:33 its not possible 15:33 <@fredriq> cornuthaum 15:33 ring of adornment 15:33 rings of adornment 15:33 oh damn 15:33 <@fredriq> ring of adornment 15:33 it is possible with ring of adornment 15:33 can i eat those? 15:33 yes 15:33 for intrinsic cha? 15:33 <@fredriq> depends on ring type 15:33 cornuthaums work only if wizard 15:33 I don't think those push you above cap though 15:33 I suspect it wouldn't take you above racial maximum eating them, but I'm not sure 15:34 otherwise you get -1 cha 15:34 <@fredriq> no, only the polyform will get the bonus 15:34 anyway, the Amulet sets you to max dungeon difficulty once you obtain it iirc 15:34 i already am rather low on ring slots 15:34 <@fredriq> I do think it breaks max caps, but it's useless once you depoly 15:34 but that is something i should consider 15:34 oh yeah it's moot anyway since stat changed while polymorphed revert when you return to normal form 15:35 does polymorphing into a nymph set your cha to 18 or something higher? 15:35 I think it's just 18 15:35 <@fredriq> I wonder if nymphs are mincapped at 18cha 15:35 <@fredriq> or set (possibly down) to 18 15:35 [hdf-eu] [un] Umbire (Kni Hum Fem Law), 1614 points, T:2354, killed by a plains centaur 15:35 I think it's the former 15:35 <@fredriq> lol noisytoot 15:35 <@fredriq> I guess we had the same though 15:35 it works weirdly in dnh with the yuki-onna race 15:35 It does in some variants, dunno about vanilla 15:36 <@fredriq> slash'em iirc leaves mental attributes (int/wis/cha) alone during poly 15:36 <@fredriq> so changes to them persist through depoly 15:36 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 167 points, T:125, killed by a bolt of cold 15:36 while you are in your natural form, it's set to 18 if it is higher than your real cha (and your max is 20) 15:36 nope, that's one of the variants I'm p. sure has nymph set charisma to 18 15:37 along with foocubus 15:37 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 51 points, T:62, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 15:37 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:17, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 15:37 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed Axus, on T:19198 15:37 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:17, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 15:39 stenno: you may be able to eat conflict for a chance of permanent intrinsic conflict 15:39 didn't know that tbh 15:40 seems i have to investigate into jewellery eating 15:40 it also comes with intrinsic hunger, but that shouldn't be a major issue this late in the game 15:40 or wish for the sceptre of might for slotless conflict 15:41 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law), 43425 points, T:7315, killed by a vampire 15:41 what rings would you wear for astral for which you want to eat a ring of conflict? 15:41 free action I assume, and what's the other? 15:42 adornment 15:42 for an increased chance of conflicting the riders 15:42 ah I see 15:42 I think I just got that as a side effect from all the cubus dancing 15:43 want to go above racial max 15:43 above 20, or 18 for dwarves? makes sense 15:43 18, or 16 for dwarves 15:43 oh 15:44 I think wizard (cornuthaums give +1 cha) or caveman (QA gives slotless conflict) would be optimal for this 15:45 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:46 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law), 14381 points, T:286, killed by a homunculus, while sleeping 15:47 <@fredriq> T:286 homunculus? 15:47 <@fredriq> unlucky 15:48 That's not too long to get down a few floors 15:48 !lastgame 15:48 Noisytoot: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/c/cpittman/fiqhack/dumplog/2023-07-16%2019%3A46%3A21%2C%20cpittman-Sam-Hum-Mal-Law%2C%20died.txt :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/U/Umbire/unnethack/dumplog/1645684872.un.txt.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Grasshopper/nethack/dumplog/1688422179.nh.html 15:49 <@cpittman> Yeah, survived the initial attack and should've run away 15:49 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:24858 15:50 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:24868 15:50 <@cpittman> Almost just got taken out by a bag of tricks 15:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed Oona, on T:20260 15:51 [hdf-us] [fh] sl (post163) (Kni Dwa Fem Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 15:52 [hdf-eu] [fh] SDFl (post163) (Kni Hum Fem Law), 11274 points, T:209, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 15:53 wonder how many people exactly get the temptation to "roleplay" a bit in some variants 15:54 avoiding elven armor as orcs, that kinda shit 15:54 (moot point in my case, this mithril-coat's cursed) 15:54 why is that a "temptation"? games exist to have fun in, people should be free to play them however they want even if it decreases winrate 15:55 <@fredriq> while I don't roleplay 15:55 I imagine relatively few people play specifically for winrate to begin with, rather than just trying to win each game best they can anyway 15:55 <@fredriq> I tend to be far less careful than "optimal" when I play 15:55 <@fredriq> because I find careful and slow play to be less enjoyable 15:55 also booooo I can't axe doors using F 15:56 <@fredriq> This has even worse outcomes in dcss, but also lowers my NetHack winrate below what it would likely be if I tried to play as if every game was a streak 15:56 I feel like enjoyment should be a major prio, yeah 15:57 short break 15:57 still have to get to xl30 lol 15:57 <@fredriq> ais523: I've considered removing ride slip damage for Knights 15:57 I could have the most jacked WR ever and not want it if it made me a miserable twat 15:57 I intentionally do not play for maximum winrate, doing so would be terrible 15:57 think i will polypile for !oGL 15:57 <@fredriq> being able to suicide T:1 by slipping while mounting is a bit silly IMO 15:57 stenno, you going the revgeno route? 15:57 ah 15:57 @fredriq: there have been a few discussions about this, it turns out that the vast majority of players don't really mind it and some people find it funny 15:57 i don't know whats more effective 15:58 <@fredriq> I mean sure it's funny the first few times 15:58 <@fredriq> But if you actually want to use your mount right away 15:58 <@fredriq> it gets old quickly 15:58 I think most players don't play Knight more than a few times anyway? :-D 15:58 <@fredriq> ais523: did you see my idea for giving each role an unique skill that drained max Pw 15:58 no, I didn't 15:59 <@fredriq> max Pw drain isn't set in stone, but rather it was more of a "powerful ability that can't be spammed" 15:59 I think it may be a bad idea just due to the way most players behave 15:59 i tried revgeno wraiths earlier, got 4 wraiths, 2 left corpses, 1 gave a level 15:59 bad outcome 15:59 it's like ranged combat, the sort of thing that a) is overpowered but b) people hate using 15:59 <@fredriq> ais523: it's here: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/FIQHack/YANIs#Work_in_progress_ideas 15:59 still got 1:2 wow though so i can pull at least 2 magic markers 15:59 skill issue 15:59 <@fredriq> in FIQHack I tried to make ranged combat less annoying 15:59 like, unironically 15:59 @ ais523 15:59 <@fredriq> with autoswap 16:00 <@fredriq> NH4 variants in general also autopickup thrown projectiles 16:00 max Pw drain is genuinely more of a hard sell though 16:00 <@fredriq> and IIRC I made longbow shots autoreturn 16:00 so does vanilla, nowadays 16:00 maybe people like dislike grinding but i don't think anyone has a prob with success/winning 16:00 <@fredriq> so that you didn't need to worry about ammo use anymore 16:00 but vanilla doesn't turn autopickup off for dropped items 16:00 <@fredriq> (once you have longbow that is) 16:00 it only autopickups thrown stuff specifically 16:00 i wish i could turn off pickup_burden specifically for taking things out of bags 16:01 also I named my wished-for ID book the way I did for a reason 16:01 <@fredriq> same 16:01 <@fredriq> @ stenno 16:01 the ammo re-ID thing really isn't that annoying but it is inconvenient 16:01 <@fredriq> to clarify what "autoswap" does: if you press f with quievered arrows and have a bow/similar as an altweapon, it will automatically swap to it for free before prompting a direction 16:02 <@fredriq> it will also do the reverse; swap to a melee weapon if you try to melee something 16:02 <@post163> I definitely find the slipping while mounting funny - and one can get around it by feeding the pony 9 times. 16:02 roleplaying is a totally arbitrary restriction, technically an orc probably shouldn't even know that mithril is better 16:02 <@fredriq> I also did a similar change with polearms that makes them far less annoying to use 16:02 <@fredriq> you can quiver them in FIQHack 16:02 i try to roleplay often 16:02 for kni its so annoying though 16:02 <@fredriq> if you do, pressing f will work somewhat like how dcss tab works 16:02 i have caitiff'd so often this game 16:02 <@fredriq> and automatically attack a valid target 16:02 actually i saw something 16:02 <@fredriq> if it's ambiguous, it will pick one randomly, but then keep hitting that one 16:02 YANI: paranoid_confirm:caitiff 16:03 <@fredriq> or if you apply the polearm manually, 'f' will then keep attacking that monster 16:03 i accidentally opened a menu where i can select monsters as target and tab through them 16:03 I have MSGSTOPs for fleeing half because of Knight stuff 16:03 forgot the context though 16:03 YANI: paranoid_confirm:floating_eye 16:03 other half (okay really it's like 1/3) because rogue stuff 16:03 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 16:03 <@fredriq> I remember @01-MTF really liking those changes, and they played Knight a ton 16:04 Noisytoot: you will never get that past the rest of the devteam, even though it's a good idea in theory 16:04 <@fredriq> ais523: I'm not 100% sure but iirc fiqhack does in fact have something akin to paranoid:caitiff 16:04 there was a joke patch on bilious that let you confirm attacks on floating eyes, but didn't give an option to deny 16:04 so it was just "attack the floating eye? (y)" 16:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:20712 16:04 how can you main knight, eww 16:04 it's also just, straight up useful in general 16:04 lool 16:04 <@fredriq> unless the player has shown that they don't care for the restriction (iirc it stops asking about it if you trigger it enough) 16:04 pls 2 of my ascs are knights 16:05 shit is fun 16:05 that someone would come up with that in the first place is a sign of how strong some feelings about floating eyes are… 16:05 but now with permaconflict, kni is super viable 16:05 always has been 16:05 wdym lmao 16:05 <@fredriq> ais523: I submitted a patch to bilious of a sort. The patch was fully functional, but I didn't assume anyone sane would actually apply it 16:05 <@fredriq> It ported fiqhack create monster AI 🙂 16:05 so far, it has been somewhat underwhelming though i have to admit 16:05 <@fredriq> without any of the following nerfs to create monster 16:05 bilious has been down for a while, I think? 16:06 paxed still renovating iirc 16:06 its a silly build 16:06 also the MSGSTOPs for monster fleeing are p. good aid in reprioritizing targets 16:06 though you have to get a lot more familiar with how mon pathing work 16:06 tiem to polypile, do not want 16:06 <@01-MTF> heya FIQ! 😄 sorry, which changes were you talkin about 16:06 a bit more of a break before that 16:06 <@fredriq> stenno: FIQHack knight had saner lance UI, allowed riding dragons that would actually use their breath, first sac gift was an artifact lance with reflection (no need to worry about broken lances), and iirc made caitiff shenanigans less annoying 16:07 @fredriq: to stop spamming, what about "can only be used once per xlvl"? 16:07 -!- ChrisANG has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:07 <@fredriq> @01-MTF do you recall several years ago when you played fiqhack knights? 16:07 a kni is basically val/bar without any stats 16:07 <@01-MTF> yes, most fun knight experience in nethack 16:07 <@fredriq> I had done some various adjustments to how knights behaved to make them more UI-friendly 16:07 they have a jumping ability 16:07 <@fredriq> and better in general 16:07 <@fredriq> I listed them above ^ just now 16:07 @fiq vanilla added two saddled warhorses on the quest home level recently, super cool. so you can make sure that you have a spare in the midgame 16:07 the 'tradeoff' for that is more mobility + more 'complete' starting armor 16:07 riding is fun if your steed doesn't die 16:07 for kni 16:07 <@fredriq> I don't recall if I made other changes 16:07 <@01-MTF> oh yea, trying to remember exactly what they were 16:08 training up the steed is one of the first things I do 16:08 of that starting armour only gloves are any good 16:08 <@01-MTF> I remember steeds being much more reliable 16:08 and yeah the castle horses are super nice 16:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Kni Hum Fem Law), 229 points, T:690, killed by a gnome 16:08 <@01-MTF> and saddle easier to acquire? 16:08 [hdf-eu] [un] post163 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of fire 16:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 16:08 the problem is 3.6 has no steeds that won't die in the endgame 16:08 now you get 2 guaranteed at the quest, so its actually a bit more viable 16:08 <@fredriq> also magic mirror confers dragonbreath reflection in fiqhack nowdays, but I don't think that was a thing back when you played @01-MTF 16:08 Noisytoot: 3.7 though... 16:08 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a system shock 16:08 <@01-MTF> oooooh no that sounds new 16:08 <@fredriq> But yeah those are all of them that I remember 16:08 maybe let them start with buffed plate mail but they can't wear it until a certain level 16:08 EvilHack knights start with plate outright 16:08 i drop kni body armor asap lol 16:09 i exchange it even for leather armor 16:09 <@fredriq> stenno: does vanilla provide more lances too? 16:09 <@fredriq> or just saddles? 16:09 <@post163> Knights also start with plate in Slash'EM and I think Spork. 16:09 <@01-MTF> double pounding with the new arti lance on a black dragon to stunlock while it disintegrates everything might be the most fun thing in roguelikes 16:09 something that will at least let them get damage reduction 16:09 <@fredriq> because iirc the main concern wasn't saddles, but lances 16:09 just the saddles, i didn't see asingle lance in the game 16:09 <@fredriq> rip 16:09 well riding is still good without jousting 16:09 I ride out the armor until I find something lighter/better for body and a basic cloak/some kinda boots 16:09 <@01-MTF> the arti lance is so sick 16:09 the unbreakable arti lance :D 16:09 then do my normal thing with armor from there 16:09 <@01-MTF> lances breaking was a big weakness before 16:09 what variant? 16:09 'artifact lances dont break in vanilla. they also dont exist' 16:09 vanilla doesn't have artifact lances 16:09 I've very very rarely had lances break on me at all 16:10 <@fredriq> >Dragonbane is now a lance, gives reflection, and has halved weight (180wt -> 90wt) 16:10 best rodney factoid 16:10 <@fredriq> oh yeah I forgot that i made it lighter too 16:10 even when trying to use them early 16:10 <@01-MTF> ngl I've had a nethack craving recently, I should boot up some fiqhack 😄 16:10 <@fredriq> (only the arti, regular lances are still 180wt) 16:10 best of luck with it MTF 16:10 <@fredriq> good luck @01-MTF 16:10 <@01-MTF> where I'm going I don't need luck 😎 16:10 i don't think i have won fiqhack yet 16:11 <@post163> I've broken my lance a few times while jousting - and it sucks to no longer be able to pound monsters such as gas spores and floating eyes. 16:11 <@fredriq> plenty of change since you played last, but I think most changes are player-helpful 16:11 dnh androids get a good steed (that can cast a disintegration spell) 16:11 <@01-MTF> I got a couple wins, but end game is def way harder than vanilla 16:11 <@fredriq> since over time I've mostly addressed outstanding complaints (summonstorms were lessened even if they are still a thing for example) 16:11 <@01-MTF> I love it 16:11 legitimately I've not had lance breaking happen much often at all when I use it 16:11 in vanilla or variants 16:11 <@01-MTF> I think the biggest issue for me was the sac system changes, I found them kinda confusing 16:12 <@01-MTF> but I think I saw somewhere the system was changed again? 16:12 <@fredriq> @01-MTF it wasn't really an ideal change IMO 16:12 nerf the lance and give kni a melee bonus when riding 16:12 <@fredriq> it was more of a patch to make sacrifices usable after the create monster changes 16:12 <@01-MTF> makes sense 16:12 <@fredriq> but I made sacrificing easier since the initial implementation at least 16:12 <@01-MTF> great news 16:12 riding skill in dnh gives bonuses to damage/accuracy/carrycap 16:13 <@fredriq> when create monster changed into summoning, creating transient monsters, players were robbed of the main sacrifice source in the game 16:13 <@fredriq> I had to make up for it in some way 16:13 <@01-MTF> ya I remember stumbling around the dungeon looking for food and gold 16:13 which is why you can sac food now 16:13 oh gold also? 16:13 <@01-MTF> it did really buff croesus lair 16:13 <@fredriq> yeah 16:13 nice 16:13 <@01-MTF> but was pretty annoying 16:13 <@fredriq> gold value was doubled since the initial implementation 16:13 <@fredriq> and permafood gives more too 16:13 <@fredriq> I don't think I changed the value of regular corpse sacrifices 16:14 i mean using a lance while not riding, that's just wrong and broken 16:14 <@01-MTF> sounds like good changes 16:14 which is the best polearm, while not riding? I thought it was the halberd, but Rodney disagrees 16:14 bec de corbin 16:14 because of the crow thing 16:15 halberd is most damage but also very heavy 16:15 <@fredriq> halberd is the best 16:15 lol the medusa trick you found out on friday 16:15 <@fredriq> what about bec de corbin? 16:15 I'd say the best one is the one that weight the least 16:15 i tried to pull it off but didn't find a bec-de-corbin, but i noticed way too late that it has another unIDed appearance 16:15 <@fredriq> if you care about wt 16:15 i think halberd is best only based on dam/weight ratio 16:15 <@fredriq> ranseur is probably ideal 16:15 beaked polearm 16:15 spetum looks pretty good, actually 16:15 <@fredriq> it's lighest and also one of the better damage dealing ones too 16:15 ⅓ the weight of a halberd and just as good vs. large 16:16 other polearms will do same damage 16:16 <@shadow_rider> why doesn’t nethack have artifact polearms 16:16 <@fredriq> ranseur is 2d4/2d4 at 50wt 16:16 bec-de-corbin is twice as heavy as a spetum 16:16 dmg per weight would be the consideration, right? 16:16 @shadow_rider: Mjollnir was once, but that was a mistake 16:16 <@fredriq> spetum is 1d6+1/2d6 also at 50wt 16:16 <@fredriq> I guess spetum is a bit better 16:17 <@shadow_rider> ais as in wrong base item or polearm was a bad idea? 16:17 lucern hammer 16:17 wrong base item 16:17 <@fredriq> wasn't there an arti called Thunderfist at one point 16:17 the former 16:17 <@fredriq> before Mjollnir was added 16:17 <@shadow_rider> i mean that makes sense 16:17 Yeah that was the proto-Mjollnir 16:17 <@fredriq> it was an artifact lucern hammer 16:17 as helpfully noted in at least one article's history section 16:17 the first artifact in NetHack was Orcrist, apparently 16:17 <@shadow_rider> but i’ve used reaper in variants and was something like that was viable in vanilla 16:18 you used to be able to make more than one by artinaming 16:18 did medieval knights actually use polearms? thought it was for foot soldiers 16:18 <@fredriq> technically Excal is first as a sort of proto-artifact 16:18 they used lances 16:18 <@fredriq> you could name a sword it, and dip in a fountain to get a +5 bonus on it 16:18 <@fredriq> but they weren't unique, any long sword with the nam would do 16:18 <@fredriq> *name 16:18 "Polearms are predominantly melee weapons, with a subclass of spear-like designs fit for thrusting and/or throwing. Because many polearms were adapted from agricultural implements or other fairly abundant tools, and contained relatively little metal, they were cheap to make and readily available." 16:18 <@shadow_rider> you could have loads of them 16:18 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 16:19 <@fredriq> I always wondered why nethack had so many polearms 16:19 fredriq, the dipping isn't guaranteed but yeah 16:19 <@fredriq> seemed a bit weird 16:19 it's the 1.3d meta :B 16:19 <@bubbles7> I thought it came from early D&D? 16:19 <@fredriq> yeah I always do it if I play 1.3d 16:19 also "because DnD did it" seems to be the tl;dr there 16:19 huh, the wiki implies you can use non-lance polearms while riding 16:19 in melee 16:19 is that correct? 16:19 <@shadow_rider> it’s weird that there’s so many and none of them are good weapon choices 16:19 <@fredriq> wouldn't surprise me but I don't know if you can or not 16:19 <@shadow_rider> very nethack kind of feature tho lol 16:19 I vaguely remember something along the lines of Gary Gygax having a PhD in medieval polearms, or something like that 16:20 <@fredriq> @shadow_rider I would argue that they are decent weapon 16:20 <@fredriq> s 16:20 so the original set of weapons in D&D was somewhat weirdly weighted due to familiarity 16:20 <@fredriq> But they're so annoying to use that nobody bothers 16:20 also yeah you absolutely can use non-lance polearms in melee 16:20 <@fredriq> which is why I tried t omake them nicer to use in fh 16:20 again, skill issue 16:20 not that your changes aren't appreciated regardless 16:20 @fredriq: my experience with polearms is that they are very useful in certain situations, but those situations don't come up often enough for them to be worth the trouble to carry 16:20 for my part I just tend to find other projectiles before polearms for my use case 16:20 <@shadow_rider> they aren’t obviously better than other ordinary weapons on top of the fact that there aren’t any artifacts 16:20 use cases* 16:21 <@shadow_rider> hence why nobody ever uses them except to be funny 16:21 yeah still a lot of artifact brain leftover from years back 16:21 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Sam Hum Mal Law) received advice from The Oracle, on T:1101 16:21 <@fredriq> Improve polearm usage Applying a polearm will preselect an appropriate position Using 'f'ire while wielding a polearm with an empty quiver will, if possible, use the polearm. As with launchers, using 'f' with polearms this way works with autoswap 16:21 I've also been trying to diversify my weapon portfolios more in general anyway 16:21 <@fredriq> I think even 3.6 does the first one nowdays 16:21 Lancers of the medieval period also carried secondary weapons such as swords, battle axes, war hammers, maces and daggers for use in hand-to-hand combat, 16:21 <@fredriq> but the other 2 would be nice to have in vanilla too 16:21 was really attached to that trident healer I lost 16:22 i know chinese horsemen primarily used polearms but they weren't really knights 16:23 -!- funknut has joined #hardfought 16:24 YANI: Peasant patch as a mirror of the Noble role 16:24 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) wished for "magic marker", got "a magic marker", on T:25292 16:27 -!- funknut has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:28 Umbire: it might play too similarly to Tourist 16:28 [hdf-eu] [un] Umbire (Bar Orc Mal Cha) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:1541 (0:49:39) 16:29 https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/the-thorny-problem-of-keeping-the-internets-time 16:29 based on...? 16:29 unless you decide to make it a challenge role that starts with almost nothing but has no other real disadvantages, that might work 16:29 you could easily substitute nethack for ntp in this article 16:29 I mean I haven't even really suggested anything for it yet so I'm wondering how you concluded that 16:30 <@fredriq> speaking of ARPANET 16:30 though in fairness I was also almost tempted to make it a YASI 16:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (2nd time), on T:25489 16:30 Umbire: I was trying to think about how it would play, given typical peasant flavour 16:30 <@fredriq> did Internet use the existing ARPANET infrastructure, or were they separate networks (but likely dual-serving for a time)? 16:30 <@fredriq> i.e. was it more of a rename of the network, or were they truly 2 separate networks 16:31 <@fredriq> (but likely interleaved similar to current IPv4 and IPv6) 16:31 FWIW my default inclination wasn't going to be Tourist But Again 16:31 at least not as far as weapon skills 16:31 well, the question is "how do you balance a role that starts with almost nothing?", and the answers there seem to be "give it high endgame potential" or "you don't" 16:31 probably the latter is more interesting 16:32 or armor - would probably be super sparse but not to like, literal base AC level 16:32 given that we already have Tou for the former, and it does start with enough items to survive the very start of the game 16:32 fiq: arpanet evolved into what we call the internet 16:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:25684 16:32 I can imagine, e.g., junk cloaks like eleven and dwarven cloaks would makes sense for a peasant 16:32 well I feel like (at least on paper) there's more than one way to realize high endgame potential 16:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Jack (Hdr-Wiz Dro Mal Law) killed Mother Hydra, on T:90122 16:32 but hmmmm 16:32 <@fredriq> "you don't" so Convict? 16:32 elven cloaks aren't junk lol 16:33 they give AC and stealth, that's already a fair bit above the nothing you get from dwarvish cloaks 16:33 elven cloaks and boots are great polyfodder 16:33 ^ 16:34 @fredriq: Convict is also a challenge role but it'd play differently from this one 16:34 <@fredriq> fwiw I don't consider it a bad thing that some roles are harder than others 16:34 my inclination was leather cloak and nothing else - like I said I don't wanna be Mean™ but at the same time it's p. minimal AC 16:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] Jack (Hdr-Wiz Dro Mal Law) killed Father Dagon, on T:90134 16:34 <@fredriq> as long as the difference between best and worst isn't disproportionally large 16:34 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Dame (level 26), on T:25880 16:35 even just more mapping scrolls would make tou viable imo 16:35 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Shaktari, on T:42090 16:35 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:23948 16:35 <@fredriq> there are some role ideas over the years that I've seen and liked 16:35 whut? when did tourist become not viable? 16:35 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (3rd time), on T:26057 16:35 i was following up on ais523's comment 16:35 <@fredriq> the occasional idea on my own, and many suggestions by others too 16:36 Umbire: I was thinking leather cloak + polearm 16:36 let me play keystone kop. start me with a rubber hose, 10 cream pies, and a banana 16:36 anselmus: tou is viable – my comment was that tou does have enough to get past the very early game 16:36 <@fredriq> the 2 most interesting role ideas I've seen is playermon-focused bard and tinkerer 16:36 <@fredriq> unfortunately I don't think NetKach currently has the items to support the latter 16:36 ais523, was speaking primarily in terms of armor 16:36 lol netkach 16:36 <@fredriq> you'd need to change some mechanics, maybe add some new items 16:36 <@fredriq> *NetHack 16:37 i thought you were discussing ways to make it more attractive as a role choice 16:37 it's already an attractive role choice 16:37 lit. my first ascension of any kind before I moved to mostly online play 16:37 for masochists perhaps 16:37 I did have more thoughts about my druid YANI: I think they should probably have a mechanic in which you keep a polyform's intrinsics on a timeout after you poly out of that form (and this might be extendable to non-druids too) 16:37 hell, furthest I got Elberethless 16:37 <@fredriq> my first ascension was a tourist iirc 16:37 <@fredriq> my 2nd was a pacifist healer 16:38 anselmus: there are some Tou specialists with pretty high win rates 16:38 <@fredriq> I'm not sure if I've ever ascended valkyrie 16:38 <@fredriq> I don't think tou is that difficult tbh 16:38 <@fredriq> you get many darts, and ranged combat is really good 16:38 are we seriously going to suggest tou are a fun easy class 16:38 <@fredriq> and it's not hard to get more 16:38 <@fredriq> mapping and healing can help you get to minetown 16:39 it's a little harder to enchant the new ones though 16:39 <@fredriq> the first major milestone 16:39 [hdf-eu] [spl] post163 (Dra Elf Nbn Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by kicking a wall 16:39 I find that if I get to MInetown too early, there's often nothing to do while I'm there 16:39 <@fredriq> I also like to coat my darts in sickness if I find the potion 16:39 presumably Tou has a chance of buying a decent weapon 16:39 "tou specialists have high win rates" to "tou is fun and easy" is a pretty big leap 16:39 it was clearly intended to be a novelty/challenge 16:39 fun for sure, definitely not easy 16:40 think it comes much easier if you have solid as hell fundamentals 16:40 <@fredriq> anselmus: my point is that i Think some make it out as harder than it actually is 16:40 <@fredriq> it's definitely harder than some other options 16:40 inclined to agree 16:40 <@fredriq> I'm not disagreeing with that 16:40 <@fredriq> but many players seem to think that tou is basically unplayable 16:40 <@fredriq> which isn't true at all 16:40 but again, if i knew i would start with a dozen mapping scrolls, that's like a free marker right there and it would be an incentive for me 16:41 <@fredriq> iirc in fiqhack, tou is the only role that got to keep its starting marker 16:41 <@fredriq> when I removed 90% of inventory randomization 16:41 <@fredriq> starting inventory randomization that is 16:41 starting magic marker is lowkey op 16:41 yes a marker would be even better obviously 16:41 given that its one of the best items in the game 16:41 <@fredriq> but it was made 0:0 I think 16:42 oh 16:42 ha 16:42 <@fredriq> the idea was basically: very good item but only usable later on 16:42 <@fredriq> when you have charging 16:42 <@fredriq> which is on brand for Tou 16:42 <@fredriq> as being a late bloomer in terms of power 16:43 <@fredriq> it used to be 1:30-99 iirc, worse than a regular one, but Luxidream made a case for it being too strong especially when combined with shop auto-ID 16:44 <@fredriq> because it had a habit of giving very early access to writable enchant armor 16:47 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Paladin (level 30), on T:26489 16:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Mammon, on T:42386 16:48 gj 16:48 what'd you do for it 16:48 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) wished for "magic marker", got "a magic marker", on T:26508 16:48 permaconflict 16:48 no I mean XL 30 16:48 how'd you finally get it 16:48 permaconflict 16:48 oh 16:48 GL alchemy like you said? 16:48 1:50 would've been reasonable i think 16:49 wraith revgeno and found a few !oGL 16:49 neat 16:49 polypiling yielded 0 !oGL 16:49 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Dro Fem Cha) was sent an incubus by Lolth, on T:60692 16:49 I remember on current Elberethless Ranger I was trying to push for XL 14 before quest and got like 16:49 2 GL drops with fuckin' 16:49 how much XP to go 16:49 I know it was a few thousand off 16:50 basically clearing out throne rooms I'd skipped because I didn't feel like immediately dealing with a horde of hostiles if I could avoid it 16:50 in one of my Junethack games – I think it was the AceHack game – I did Ludios for the XL 14 grind 16:50 oh yeah I remember, was looking for a second altar in main dungeon 16:51 so I avoided throne rooms on purpose while pushing deeper 16:51 partly for the achievement 16:51 never found one though, so I had to use a poly ring and make my own 16:51 (first try because of course) 16:52 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered the Elemental Planes, on T:26521 16:52 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Plane of Earth, on T:26521 16:53 You see a baby owlbear drop out of your pack! Its cries sound like "daddy?" 16:53 ??? what's this? 16:53 it's a baby owlbear 16:53 this has been in vanilla for ages 16:54 it is IIRC the only advantage to playing a male rather than a female character 16:54 males who carry eggs in open inventory can wind up with odd pets 16:54 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Plane of Air, on T:26612 16:54 vanilla has baby owlbear? 16:54 yeah, males can get tame monsters from eggs. females can lay their own eggs 16:54 i see... 16:54 ais was talking about the egg-hatching mechanic 16:55 I guess you can make some convoluted argument along the lines of "players in bones files aren't necessarily gender-balanced so may be more likely to be killed by an incubus rather than a succubus or vice versa, thus one gender has the advantage in combat" 16:55 owlbears in evilhack have baby forms 16:55 they do 16:55 they show up earlier and can be basty 16:55 er nasty 16:55 they can also be basty 16:55 bastyards 16:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) wished for "Blessed +3 fixed dragonhide speed boots", on T:24792 16:56 baby owlbear corpses are filling without satiating you so quickly like the adults 16:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Plane of Fire, on T:26674 16:56 oh I didn't notice you hit planes already 16:56 gl! 16:56 !lastgame sausagecat 16:56 docpi: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/s/sausagecat/nethack/dumplog/1687296991.nh.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/s/sausagecat/nethack/dumplog/1688259633.nh.html 16:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Plane of Water, on T:26687 16:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) genocided class ;, on T:26690 16:58 may as well tune in 16:58 "You hear a rumbling noise." on Water? 16:59 did that print? 16:59 it's a thunderstorm. where do you think all that water comes from? 16:59 stenno's playing fast enough I can't really track 16:59 oh yep 16:59 curious 16:59 ok 17:00 lets see 17:00 PERMACONFLICT 17:00 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered the Astral Plane, on T:26816 17:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Daughter Lilith, on T:43058 17:01 ais523, leftover from Plane of Air is my only real guess 17:02 Umbire: my guess is that it's a rendering issue related to terminal resizing or sometihng like that, and the message didn't actually appear on Water 17:03 could be 17:03 oh hello 17:03 "Death touches the priest of Moloch. --More--" 17:04 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04 a nice minimal -20 ac 17:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) Death has been killed, on T:26853 17:05 ooh, and Beholder knew to write that in the passive voice 17:05 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) the invisible Famine has been killed, on T:26858 17:05 yeah, fairly recent livelog updat 17:05 update* 17:05 time for the /oMM spam 17:05 I'm not sure why angels even get those, it's the weakest attack wand 17:06 ...isn't that their own MM attack 17:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) Death has been killed (2nd time), on T:26863 17:06 oh, could be? I thought it was a wand, maybe not though 17:06 it's usable at range as well as in melee 17:06 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:33213 (18:38:08) 17:06 maybe I saw them use a wand once, and then thought their native attack was also a wand 17:06 "famine wake up pls" 17:06 nope, just straight up magic missiles 17:07 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 17:07 Yeen also has that 17:07 there's a cataclysm scenario where you start (in a zombie apocalypse) as a medieval peasant: Som nigromancie hath brought yow hidder! Ye have only the hoose on youre legges and the knyf at youre syde and youre prayeres to Marie moder of God. 17:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law), 596 points, T:959, burned by molten lava 17:07 fascinating 17:07 (no sarcasm intended) 17:08 they have pants in zombie apocalypse? 17:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Famine (2nd time), on T:26877 17:08 do need to flesh out this peasant idea, but later 17:08 Who wrote that and could they not have used their fingers? 17:09 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 17:09 yesssss 17:09 oh curious, still see the rumbling noise thing even after I actually resized the terminal with r 17:09 the girls are fightiiiiiiiiing!!!! 17:09 yesssssss 17:10 KEIKAKU achieved 17:10 and got the level drain 17:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) the invisible Famine has been killed (3rd time), on T:26890 17:10 down in two 17:10 well two I saw 17:11 stenno: out of interest, is your goal here a) to ascend or b) to test out the strategy, even if it means delaying the ascension? 17:11 b 17:11 i could have ascended a long time ago 17:12 a good choice 17:12 stenno, KEI-what? 17:12 [hdf-us] [slth] GemOfWonder (Hac Hum Fem Neu), 11441 points, T:7893, killed by a watchman 17:12 docpi: translators note: keikaku means 'plan' in japanese 17:12 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 17:13 Ah, wakarimas! 17:13 you can always handle their corpse to make them revive faster 17:13 it's a reference to an infamous translation of Death Note 17:13 Correction: Wakarimasu. 17:13 i thought about this biut it seems risky 17:13 or teleport it 17:14 yeah 17:14 maybe i should just do it 17:14 ok this might actually ruin it 17:14 Why would you want to revive the Riders on purposeß 17:14 ? 17:14 because i want death to drain famine and famine to kill death 17:14 permaconflict strats 17:14 this is convincing me that petless pacifist Astral is actually possible and shouldn't be too hard with the right setup 17:15 stenno, generating conflict? 17:15 pacifist only requires you not kill monsters yourself, yeah? 17:15 Ahh, pacifist conduct. 17:15 but you can weaken them freely without it being lethal 17:15 * docpi understands 17:15 its not pacifist 17:15 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) the invisible Famine has been killed (5th time), on T:26942 17:15 pacifist extinctionist when 17:15 yeah I'm responding to ais523 17:15 I know, but making it pacifist wouldn't be so hard, based on this 17:16 someone has done pacifist extinctionist I think? 17:16 after a while, Famine will probably become unable to kill Death 17:16 pacifist extinctionist has been done, at least in 3.4.3 17:16 wut 17:16 nazgul is not drain resistant? 17:16 giving create monster to conflicted monsters seems like A Thing 17:16 death only did 30 damage? 17:16 @v? Nazgul 17:16 Nazgul (W) | Lvl: 13 | Diff: 17 | Spd: 12 | Res: cold sleep poison drain | Confer: nothing | MR: 25 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 0 | Atk: 1d4 weapon level drain, 2d25 breath sleep | Align: -17 | genocidable, breathless, nopoly, undead, stalker 17:16 also I don't think Death's touch checks drain resistance 17:16 "Res: drain" 17:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (orcs), on T:1 17:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of genocide 17:17 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Wiz Hob Fem Neu) murdered her faithful pseudodragon, on T:1 (0:00:03) 17:18 i will read famines XL another time when he revives and then i will ascend 17:18 i rate this a success 17:19 lost 6 level 17:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) destroyed the parasitized commander, on T:44212 17:19 ais523, if you recall the ToD changes it's no longer a flat instadeath but severely weakens and damages a target 17:19 and I think if it does enough damage comparable to maxHP then the target just croaks 17:20 stenno, You actually _want_ your experience levels to drain in the Endgame? Why? 17:20 * docpi confused. 17:20 not mine 17:20 "i will read famines XL another time when he revives" 17:20 Ahh.. 17:20 * docpi distracted from playing a game on the other screen. 17:20 use conflict to make Death and stuff fight, drain Rider levels using Death conflict, ???, profit 17:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) found Fire Brand carried by a monster, on T:26984 17:21 -!- terrapin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21 oh cool, says when displacement flat out doesn't work 17:21 -!- terrapin has joined #hardfought 17:21 why would evilhack make mines full of water :) 17:21 make it harder to reach mine town? 17:21 because fuck you 17:22 actual answer: to make mines somewhat more interesting 17:22 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) the invisible Death has been killed (3rd time), on T:27009 17:22 if you have a pick-axe you can dig around a mass majority of water obstructions 17:22 yes. dark mines with water and pirhana are way more interesting 17:22 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law) found Giantslayer carried by a monster, on T:27043 17:23 and then there's a matter of goblin town lol 17:23 haven't reached far enough to encounter it 17:23 you went past it lmao 17:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] stenno (Kni Hum Fem Law), 1807264 points, T:27053, ascended 17:23 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/s/stenno/nethack/dumplog/1689414881.nh.html 17:23 goblin town portal is always DL 2 or 3 17:23 well that was fun 17:23 gg stenno 17:23 itworked out 17:24 rather underwhelming though lol 17:24 but it worked out fine 17:24 thx 17:24 gg 17:24 !streak stenno 17:24 stenno: [hdf-eu] stenno Max[nh370]: 5 (2020-12-06 - 2020-12-11). Current[nh370]: 3 (since 2023-02-04). 17:24 3-streak 17:24 niice 17:24 that was super silly 17:25 but it also was really fun 17:25 congratulations, stenno 17:25 i can optimize a lot 17:25 thanks! 17:25 should've used stennopro 17:25 hah 17:25 i guess 17:26 now i have to wait until i break this streak though 17:26 aka i can beat tariru anytime if i want 17:26 my sustainable streak strategy works out really well 17:26 i have gotten super consistent 17:26 Umbire: oh wat 17:26 gg 17:27 stenno: do tell 17:27 "You have become quite familiar with your copper elven long sword" what does this mean? not skill bump 17:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed the Hmnyw-Pharaoh, on T:44716 17:27 goblin town is required to use stairs that lead to Minetown 17:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2325 points, T:3311, killed by a fog cloud 17:28 notice something different about it in your inventory display? 17:28 stenno, so you generated conflict so the Riders would fight each other instead of you, and eventually they did not revive, and you could ascend from there? 17:28 they almost always revive unless you go infinitely further out of your way lol 17:29 theywill always revive, but i wanted to drain the level of famine so much that he will always get conflicted (or rather with a 95% chance) 17:29 but apparently he lost a lot of maxhp 17:30 so i had 55% chance to conflict death 17:30 sustainable tip #1: don't fuck up like you always do 17:30 this is always constant 17:30 if i got sanctum on 45 it would have been 65% i think 17:30 anselmus: indeed 17:31 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Hum Mal Neu), 7983 points, T:9077, quit 17:31 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Wiz Hob Fem Neu), 40 points, T:1, caught herself in her own ball of lightning 17:32 [hdf-us] [xnh] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:43, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 17:32 one of the high priestesses almost killed me lol 17:32 a 10 streak in theory should be so easy 17:32 most of us can ascend on demand, and get a 3 streak in our sleep 17:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 54 points, T:88, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 17:32 yet we never win lol 17:33 i think this is my second 3-streak ever 17:33 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Dro Fem Cha) murdered her faithful incubus, on T:64322 17:33 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 158 points, T:101, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 17:33 feels good having transcended the sloppy moderate speedrun play 17:33 playstyle 17:34 new territory for you 17:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] elky (Val Dwa Fem Law), 10509 points, T:10123, killed by an invisible hill orc 17:34 yes 17:34 the relatively achievable 9 streak in nh4 has given me an excuse to never play variants again 17:34 my turncount now averages 27k instead of like 18k lol 17:34 but i DONT CARE 17:35 ITS FINE being a bit slower 17:35 this one could have probably been 4k turns faster if it wasn't for this stupid build lol 17:37 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 914 points, T:1819, killed by an imp 17:37 thanks ais523 for the theorycrafting on friday 17:37 everything worked out really well 17:37 i think marvin averaged sub 30k 17:38 i've seen some really high turncount from variant pros lately 17:38 <@shadow_rider> so much talk about streaks in recent weeks 17:38 so 27 is probably quite speedy by modern standards 17:38 <@shadow_rider> start of a new era? 17:38 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) wished for "blessed effigy", on T:44914 17:38 a neo renaissance 17:39 lmao orc town again 17:39 3.7 really rewards expert players 17:39 ais523, "theorycrafting"? 17:39 could probably do it as is provided I can properly inspect armor 17:39 <@shadow_rider> from what i can see 3.7 is much kinder to optimal players 17:39 docpi: its a term meaning figuring out a strategy or build in advance 17:40 yes 17:40 problem is one of converting the altar before saccing orcs 17:40 well tarirus 61-streak is the one to get, right 17:40 quite the housenumber 17:40 from what i can see 3.7 is much kinder to bad devs lol! 17:41 bruh 17:41 :v 17:41 stenno, German is your native language, is it not? 17:41 yes 17:41 Figured as much. 17:41 <@shadow_rider> 61 is too high to worry about until you get there 17:42 i will see, i am only at the beginning 17:42 , 17:42 <@shadow_rider> like have to “luck” into a decent length before you can start thinking about it 17:42 there will be lot of failure ahead 17:42 i bet you're already near the top of nhs 17:43 my last games were ages ago though 17:43 oh no there it is 17:43 it only shows as 2-streak 17:44 90 days man 17:44 thats a challenge 17:44 thats a mini-tournament 17:44 <@shadow_rider> stenno do you play w bones? 17:44 <@shadow_rider> out of curiosity 17:44 no bones 17:45 just need to ascend every 90 days to stay on the board 17:45 oh 17:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] Jack (Hdr-Wiz Dro Mal Law) averted death, on T:90479 17:45 i can't believe i am playing nethack again 17:45 so enjoy and try not die to in like 15 mins lol 17:46 3.7 is mega fun 17:46 it all started with the DSM buff lol 17:46 best nethack change ever imo 17:46 ? 17:47 because of the new build variety 17:47 DSM other than silver and gray give secondary properties 17:47 you really have to think about your equipment 17:47 blue is a really good one atm, also itching to try orange next 17:47 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:5018 17:47 hell maybe even white for casters 17:47 oh i think you mentioned that 17:47 does 3.7 have the new gehennom? 17:48 yeah 17:48 but - certain monsters can knock you back now 17:48 <@shadow_rider> i wonder what the optimal variant/version to streak is 17:48 so you have to prepare to not get punched into lava lakes 17:49 so i go with fireproof ww boots but amulet of flying is also another variant 17:49 shadow: i'm sure it's not 343 *cough* 17:49 also giantslayer blocks knockback so that is actually a viable lategame weapon now lol 17:49 no 343 is the hardest in the world, and i can't believe i currently have a 6 streak oh wow lol 17:49 so much variety 17:49 <@shadow_rider> lol 17:49 oh lol its 3.4.3 17:49 thats whack dude 17:50 play 3.7.0 like the cool kids 17:50 <@shadow_rider> i bet it would be dnh 343 or slashthem 17:50 <@shadow_rider> 3.7 has an argument also 17:50 dnh had a mega broken arti at some point 17:50 i will play your mom 3.7 17:50 uuuh 17:50 ok boomer 17:51 you're probably similar age 17:51 <@shadow_rider> actually 3.7 is probably easier than 343 i just haven’t played it in a while 17:51 3.7 is not exactly easy 17:51 its challenging 17:51 but it removes the stupid rng 17:51 <@shadow_rider> not easy sorry, better to streak 17:51 right 17:51 for expert players (which you are) 17:52 <@shadow_rider> i will stick to 3.6 tho 17:52 i understand there are no instadeaths except death ray? 17:52 <@shadow_rider> it feels cleaner and tariru played it 17:52 i don't want to go back to 3.6 17:52 anselmus: there are still quite some instadeaths 17:52 but specifically poison instadeath has been removed 17:53 <@shadow_rider> lol why don’t you like 3.6 17:53 oh and shapechanger L i guess 17:54 <@shadow_rider> what was the shapechanger change? 17:54 its boring concerning strategy, and also i really hate the bad rng lol 17:54 i mean you can still get tod'd by one 17:54 i wonder what beginners think of 3.7.0 17:55 <@shadow_rider> lol i don’t feel like 3.7 improves much on strategy but maybe it’s just less noticeable cuz of variants 17:55 build variety 17:55 the build strategy feels really different 17:56 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) killed Cerberus, on T:30039 (19:36:22) 17:56 i thought about yellow dsm and then revgeno c with permaconflict 17:56 those guys kill a lot 17:56 i noticed it in the rodney zoo 17:56 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Dro Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed rustproof mithril +2 gauntlets of power", on T:65376 17:56 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:30057 (19:36:58) 17:57 first things first, imma write a JS tool for calculating conflicting chances in 3.7.0 17:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:8738 17:58 i think the only viable way to streak is to play the strongest possible role repeatedly, otherwise you're entrusting too much to rng 17:58 wut that is super boring 17:58 i will never do that, i will always streak through the 13 roles 17:58 super boring is a good thing 17:58 no 17:59 that would be lame man 17:59 <@shadow_rider> notice how no one who has streaked long has done the same thing over and over again 17:59 it has to be different roles until they repeat 17:59 oh anselmus i noticed your streak 17:59 <@shadow_rider> if you play that many games it’s not worth it unless you are really obsessed w it 17:59 the streak is exciting enough for me 17:59 all wiz 17:59 <@shadow_rider> and even then people may not give you the same recognition for it 18:00 <@shadow_rider> i know that was an issue in dcss at some point 18:00 <@shadow_rider> wiz is not the easiest role at all tho fwiw 18:00 healer is of course the easiest 18:01 <@post163> What's the easiest role for a starting gender of male and/or a starting alignment of chaotic? 18:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:10581 18:01 i like monk 18:01 <@shadow_rider> barbarian probably 18:01 orc barb too, yeah 18:02 elf ranger is insane in the early game 18:02 but suffers extremely in the later game lol 18:02 stenno: so you wouldn't have any prob with being instadeathed because you didn't start with mr for example? 18:03 keep in mind that 3.7 doesn't have the chance of purple L at the castle anymore 18:04 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of fire 18:05 i'd rather be mocked for a wiz streak by the same idiots who claim that valks are too easy (yet incapable of ascending any) than having no streak at all with a clear conscience 18:05 i can see your point about MR 18:06 orcish wizard is best for avoiding instadeaths 18:06 you start with poison resistance and MR 18:06 i stepped on a polytrap in the midgame, which could have ruined my game 18:06 <@shadow_rider> it’s a shame that mr is so important for streak 18:06 also valks being easy aren't mutually incompatible with the game still being hard imho 18:06 also in sokoban, there was a chameleon which tunrned into a purple L 18:06 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack#Sokoban Tool, amulet, armor. What's the usual suggestion of what to go for? 18:06 Depends entirely on your needs at that moment 18:06 because chameleon just doesnt care about depth balance 18:07 also you want some form of detecting objects to know which door has what 18:07 anselmus: in 3.7 I'm not convinced that Val is even the best role any more (but I am also not convinced that it isn't) 18:07 <@shadow_rider> all things being equal amulet is probably optimal but tool is best 18:07 the tromix the minotaur situation was still so strange 18:07 Umbire: yeah i used the potion 18:07 maybe i need to watch the ttyrec but i think it was out of my field of view 18:07 <@shadow_rider> barbarian is best role for streak 18:07 yeah the amulet is either MR or reflection which is typically your best bet for "shit what helps not dying instantly" 18:07 <@shadow_rider> or wiz if you want to take the mr angle 18:07 ais523: ...that comment is totally unhelpful lol 18:08 <@shadow_rider> but barb is more consistent than valk 18:08 lol anselmus ais523 18:08 Umbire: true... 18:08 as opposed to claiming people that call valks easy don't ascend any 18:08 i guess my next role is arc, then tou 18:08 in dnethack maybe incantifier barbarian is best for streaking (because you start with MR and poison resistance) 18:08 <@shadow_rider> tough roles 18:09 getting the difficult ones out early 18:09 I do think that most people who call valk easy tend to overrate it 18:09 <@shadow_rider> noisytoot i think malor came to the same conclusion 18:09 right now i have pri, hea, kni 18:09 wiz is easier than val up until monster difficulty 6 or so 18:09 (but drops off sharply at that point) 18:09 (and comes back later in the game) 18:09 yes put up a 10 streak with a val THEN tell us it's too easy 18:10 anselmus: question is, do we go by the nhs definition of streak, or by the normal one 18:10 lets go with the nhs one, keeps me playing 18:10 I generally ignore nhs, I didn't realise people considered it relevant 18:10 what's the difference? 18:10 <@shadow_rider> not many people want to play the same combo over and over lol 18:11 nhs doesn't count my first game as part of the streak because there was more than 90 days between that and the second one 18:11 so it just lists a 2-streak now even though technically i have a 3-streak 18:11 yeah it's not even a difficulty thing just a variety one 18:11 no thats not right 18:11 <@shadow_rider> that seems wrong 18:11 it also doesn't seem to count overlapping games on different servers 18:11 huh? 18:11 I get a bit annoyed when I feel like rolling something random and get a human Sam 18:12 <@shadow_rider> bugged or for a different reason 18:12 https://nethackscoreboard.org/players/s/stenno.nh.html 18:12 ok then its bugged 18:12 maybe the streaks get calculated later 18:12 how do you link accounts? 18:12 then i misunderstood 18:12 Noisytoot: its automatically 18:12 oh no 18:12 err you have to ask the admin 18:13 <@shadow_rider> stenno would you possibly have quit/scummed a game in between? 18:13 !streak 18:13 stenno: [hdf-eu] stenno Max[nh370]: 5 (2020-12-06 - 2020-12-11). Current[nh370]: 3 (since 2023-02-04). 18:13 this lists 23 18:13 this lists 3 18:13 so no scumming in between unless this also ignores scumming 18:13 !streak 18:13 Noisytoot: [hdf-us] Noisytoot Max[ndnh]: 1 (2023-05-31 - 2023-06-30)(current). :: [hdf-eu] Noisytoot Max[ndnh]: 2 (2023-04-16 - 2023-07-13)(current). 18:14 look at that 5-streak in 5 days 18:14 this isn't junethack so i'm sure it's not scoring fraud by teamsplat *cough* 18:14 one of my best achievemnts 18:14 lmao are you actually still salty about that 18:14 we were the better clan 18:14 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Sokoban amulet of reflection, on T:13732 18:15 why was it scoring fraud? 18:15 oh junethack 18:15 i _did_ die during junethack 18:15 [hdf-us] [hackm] Frozty (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed Xanathar, on T:19010 (1 day, 2:41:28) 18:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 2019 points, T:1440, killed by a white unicorn 18:16 oof 18:16 I find it amusing that, coming back to NetHack after a few years, lots of people remembered me as being better than I actually was 18:16 why does it not list on the scoreboard page 18:16 strange 18:16 I am maybe a bit worse now, but not by that much 18:17 malor is actually a member of teamsplat, but i always did find it funny that when the scoreboard maintainer was also the best player on his scoreboard 18:17 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Dro Fem Cha), 227147 points, T:66853, poisoned by a grave troll 18:18 if you don't trust the scoreboard you can verify it yourself with the xlogfiles 18:18 hm, never heard of a grave troll 18:18 it seems my second junethack is not counting 18:18 @sp?grave troll 18:18 junethack game 18:18 grave troll (T) | Lvl: 11 | Diff: 14 | Spd: 8 | Res: drain | Confer: nothing | MR: 60 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 0 | Atk: 2d6 claw physical, 2d6 claw physical, 2d6 bite disease | Align: 0 | genocidable, carnivore, thick hide, regen, poisonous, stalker, infravis 18:18 i thought i died.. 18:18 nasty 18:18 no no not saying there's anything improper 18:19 i did die during junethack. did i play with a different character? 18:19 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:14752 18:19 ooh it was xnethack 18:20 duh 18:20 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/s/stenno/nethack/dumplog/1679616369.nh.txt 18:20 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Dra Dro Fem Cha), 8 points, T:26, slipped while mounting a saddled baby gold dragon 18:20 <@shadow_rider> xnh shouldn’t matter 18:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (orcs), on T:1 18:20 lol i tried something out 18:20 thanks cathartes 18:21 so a scum game 18:21 and !streak doesn't count it 18:21 wait no, that was 24.03 though 18:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] Jack (Wiz Dro Mal Law), 4179831 points, T:91017, quit 18:21 oh ended 18:22 ended on 03.06. 18:22 thats it then 18:22 so scummy 18:22 does !streak or nethackscoreboard count exploremode games for streaks? 18:22 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 18:23 junethack counted one of my explore-mode games as a startscum 18:23 which I'm still a bit annoyed about 18:23 I quit that immediately because I started it in the wrong mode! 18:23 i am now #10 in overall vanilla zscore again 18:24 0.1995 points to equalize zipcode 18:24 do you have enough wins that 0.2 zscore is hard to get? 18:24 it'd be interesting to try to "normalize" zscore sometimes so that a value twice as high would be twice as impressive 18:25 238 wins in vanilla now 18:25 i get big points for cav, rog and tou 18:25 bwah love looking at nhs, no one can catch me because their variants are too hard 18:26 <@shadow_rider> maybe i should try to continue my slashthem streak 18:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:28839 18:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of genocide 18:26 <@shadow_rider> it’s annoying af tho pretty easy but so long 18:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] post163 (Nob Inc Fem Neu), 23 points, T:56, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 18:27 bwah love looking at nhs, no one can catch me because their variants are too hard ← on that basis I should be good at this, I specialise in writing easy variants 18:27 yeah even if you're not already of the mind to take your sweet time 18:27 K2: is it on purpose that !streak doesn't count scummed games in between? 18:27 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Hum Mal Neu), 30 points, T:44, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 18:27 K2: i think it should count them there specifically 18:27 NH4 and AceHack are probably the two easiest variants on Hardfought 18:28 <@shadow_rider> doppelganger makes the lategame not yak so long but i don’t want to take that route 18:28 acehack specifically 18:28 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nurdglaw (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 10277 points, T:9058, killed by an arrow 18:28 why is acehack easier than nh4? 18:28 ais523: nh4: easy to learn, a lifetime to master 18:28 I actually think NH4 is probably easier than AceHack, although I'm not sure 18:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:49996 18:28 I should see about progressing that Firefighter on that note 18:29 i haven't played both of them in a very long time, my judgement regarding that might be impaired 18:29 <@shadow_rider> what are the key differences? 18:29 already dealt with I think the worst demon lords 18:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 45554 points, T:15966, killed by a winged gargoyle, while praying 18:29 i always considered ace the easiest variant 18:29 its really nice to sloppy players like me 18:29 Are slashthem demon lords harder than vanilla ones? 18:29 @shadow_rider: they're mostly related to monster AI 18:29 in nh4, the interface is a bit of my enemy 18:30 my muscle memory fails me even if i try to make it exactly like vanilla 18:30 <@shadow_rider> slashthem lords have like 600 hp noisytoot 18:30 <@shadow_rider> but elbereth works in gehennom because 343 18:30 <@shadow_rider> so easier and harder i guess 18:30 <@shadow_rider> they all are guaranteed 18:30 -!- nurdglaw has quit [Quit: Client closed] 18:30 hmm, I ported most of Ace's interface changes over to NH4 – I actually had more muscle-memory issues in Ace than NH4 coming from vanilla 18:30 what would nethack be without statistics man 18:30 primarily # as command repeat 18:30 ais523: idk what it is 18:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:29192 18:31 even minor interface changes can have huge effects, though 18:31 also starting nh4 changes the command palette and the escape code to reset it is not implemented in my terminal emulator 18:31 changes the color palette* 18:31 I actually now suspect that NH3.7 is showing lit corridors correctly but my terminal is somehow rendering the lit corridor and unlit corridor characters identically 18:32 the palette thing is something of a problem – I think I wrote a blog post about precisely why it had caused so much trouble, then didn't actually do anything about it 18:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) destroyed Baalphegor, on T:50070 18:32 -!- oh6 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Mephistopheles, on T:50074 18:33 this may have been what set me along the path of infinite sadness at the state of software at every level of abstraction along the chain 18:33 from which I never truly recovered 18:33 Which terminal? 18:34 iterm2 18:34 for me, gnome-terminal 18:34 is the emulator, term should be xterm-256 18:34 \o. I got "healthy" from a cave spider! That never happens to me :D 18:34 xterm-256color or whatsitcalled 18:34 well, theoretically it shouldn't be, a terminal that claims to be xterm should implement all of xterm's control sequences 18:34 but most terminal emulators piggyback on xterm's control definitions rather than writing their own 18:35 and the end result is that programs can't actually trust the terminal definition database to match the terminal that's in use 18:35 Clearly we need a new standard which everyone will... oh no 18:35 Grasshopper, they're usually one of my early poison res sources if the game is (relatively) kind 18:35 https://xkcd.com/927/ 18:35 Pinkbeast: there is already an existing standard which nobody complies with :-D 18:35 I think vanilla DCSS now has quite an explicit "if this text is blue, you might need to..." facility 18:35 I have been considering writing my own standard-ish thing, not as a "you should do this" but "these are the practices that I find give the best results when paired with nonstandard implementations in practice" 18:35 Do you eat poisonous corpses to gain poison resistance in 3.7? 18:36 ais523: "don't run KiTTY" 18:36 Pinkbeast: ? 18:36 I do that in 3.6 but would not do it in 3.7 or any variant that makes unicorn horns not restore lost attributes unless I could cast restore ability. 18:36 could also grab an apron, sustain ability, etc. 18:36 Kitty, the unix terminal not the PuTTY clone, explicitly WONTFIX bold black => dark grey 18:36 oh, I discovered that what I thought was a bug in PuTTY is actually a misfeature instead 18:37 because they added an option to change to the correct behaviour, rather than simply just fixing the bug 18:37 Kitty requires OpenGL 3 18:37 I ah do socialise with Simon Tatham most weeks so if you have serious PuTTY gripes I can pass them on :-) 18:38 I think all *that* mess can be traced back to there being an existing standard (Ecma-35) that everyone was following at one point, but it turned out to be overcomplex and inadequate and there were better solutions 18:38 e.g. UTF-1 (Ecma-35 compatible) never caught on, whereas UTF-8 (which violates its recommendations) did 18:39 UTF-8 isn't outright Ecma-35 incompatible because Ecma-35 has a code to say "I am going to do something non-Ecma-35-compatible now, please don't make assumptions about it" and that was adapted into a code to specify the use of UTF-8 18:39 and Ecma-35's code to change *back* is valid UTF-8 that gets parsed the same way in the two coding system frameworks, so there's no ambiguity there either 18:40 Pinkbeast: that's a pretty big name to be friends with :-) 18:40 oh yeah, squeezing past boulders in Un is stupid easy 18:40 should make a note of that on-wiki at some point 18:40 really cool having used a cloak of displacement this time instead of the usual boring stuff 18:40 anyway, terminals still use Ecma-35 to specify character encoding, which is why weirdness happens when you try to use them with UTF-8 18:41 it did not really affect the air elementals though, they gave me a lot of trouble 18:41 maybe i was just unlucky 18:41 displacement doesn't matter once they've engulfed you 18:41 they were able to reliably engulf me 18:41 at least that was my impression 18:42 stenno: anyway, what do you think I should do wrt the devteam and 3.7 conflict? just leave things in their current state and focus what effort I'm able to give on other arguments? 18:42 i don't think its broken 18:42 sadly 18:42 i think its actually fine 18:43 3.7 is nice for pushing you to actually experiment 18:43 you really have to invest a lot of resources 18:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:29606 18:43 (or experiment further if you're already of that mindset) 18:43 stenno: I think it's better than not even without investing in it, as long as you aren't invisible 18:44 it really depends - a high monlevel monster without monmr wont get conflicted anymore 18:44 my personal line for conflict being broken is "you don't have to use healing items on Astral, even with an only slightly optimised build" 18:44 another consideration is still paci 18:44 archon starts as XL19 18:44 well, generally a pacifist player can't use conflict or they get killed by their pet 18:44 so its fine on XL1 18:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:29714 18:45 paci without archon pet is really really difficult 18:45 not counting purple worms which are weird, what's the second-best pet for pacifists? 18:45 i wonder, ki-rin 18:46 (not counting because they're so good in some situations and so bad in others that it's hard to reasonably compare) 18:46 with the new monster resistance rules, you have some nice option 18:46 so you can give a carnivore all resistances 18:46 almost all, anyway 18:46 so maybe a dragon, even though they are slow? 18:46 Jabberwock is a contender 18:46 18 speed and carnivorous, also rideable 18:47 gray and silver dragons are p. close too 18:47 you can probably even give herbivores resistances with blob corpses 18:47 ooh, I didn't realise you could ride jabberwocks 18:47 I don't have much of a real-life reference for them 18:47 not much incentive to, as you've alluded to 18:47 though even for folks with incentive (e.g. probably something I'd wanna do) before 3.7 making sure they live the Planes is usually the hardest part 18:47 can jabby get MR? 18:47 but then that's for pets in general even if they had the resistances 18:47 nah 18:48 or refl? 18:48 well 18:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 89595 points, T:30773, killed by a magic missile zapped by a captain 18:48 they will die then probably 18:48 @v? Jabberwock 18:48 jabberwock (J) | Lvl: 15 | Diff: 18 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 50 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: -2 | Atk: 2d10 bite physical, 2d10 bite physical, 2d10 claw physical, 2d10 claw physical | Align: 0 | genocidable, carnivore, flies, infravis 18:48 mr: 50 at least 18:48 if jabberwock picks up PYEC then I guess it will have MR until it drops it 18:48 I ascended with my starting pet in NH4 – in early NH4 pets died too much, so I changed the mechanics a bit to make them survive more easily, and may have overdone it a bit 18:48 100 would be nice 18:48 (it did lifesave at one point, so pets aren't 100% invincible there – by that point it had polymorphed itself into a gnome king) 18:48 monsters generally only have to worry about wands/rays in terms of mvm magic 18:48 cathartes: but they will drop it quickly, wont they? 18:48 yes 18:48 like only a few turns 18:48 outside of spells falling on steeds iirc? 18:49 you could hypothetically get a humanoid pet to wear "oR and then poly it into a jabberwock 18:49 but lol 18:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:29880 18:49 hmm well gotta try it 18:50 uuh but only base level 15 18:50 I have wondered occasionally whether giving non-wizmode players a source of #monpolycontrol somehow might be interesting 18:50 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:1657 18:50 will you get it strong enough to kill the quest nem 18:50 maybe with wand skills patch, a master wand of polymorph could let you choose what to polymorph the monster into (FIQhack YANI, I guess) 18:50 my last paci (which would have been my first win) i lost on Water 18:51 accidentally stepped into the portal without my Archon adjacent 18:51 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) murdered Lia, his faithful baby shimmering dragon, on T:30580 (20:24:34) 18:51 feels bad 18:52 also I've tag-teamed nemesis with (relatively) weaker stuff for pets so 18:52 jabber could easily do it, I don't think it has a problem getting kills from levels either 18:52 i felt groin pain just reading that 18:52 and rodney too 18:53 levels from kills* even 18:53 rodney increases xl 18:53 unlike an archon you can at least feed it wraiths 18:53 on each death 18:53 thats true 18:53 as opposed to being stuck on GL 18:53 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Cha) was given the Fluorite Octahedron, on T:17886 18:53 and jabbers can usually kill wraiths p. quickly too 18:53 which'll have to do for most draining monsters unfortunately 18:53 paci is such a merciless grind 18:54 oh yeah, they get drained 18:54 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Cha) was given the Garnet Rod, on T:17918 18:54 that was very fast after the last sacrifice gift 18:55 what is this, bejewelled 18:55 just don't get hit, then you can't get drained 4Head 18:56 did you die or just lose the conduct? 18:56 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:5550 18:57 pondering evil pacifist again, I think the main barrier there after an early wish for a pet is finding a pet that doesn't die to disease more than anything 18:57 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a dagger named +2 on an altar, on T:5554 18:57 in general evil pets have a lot more spec stuff going for them - steeds get barding and it can be reflective or prevent engulfing, there's pet intrinsics also 18:57 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Elf Mal Neu), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 18:57 monster AI is in general better about carrying/using stuff 18:57 #loot is goated 18:58 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) performed his first annihilation (alhoons), on T:30610 (20:31:50) 18:58 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:3462 18:59 pseudodragons and winter wolves seemed op at first but curiously seemed to kill less than vanilla 18:59 lower base levels 19:00 pseudos are early game beasts for sure 19:00 zombies are also fairly frequent early and cold resistant 19:00 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 9595 points, T:3930, quit 19:02 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 19:03 or maybe it just seemed that way because i didn't have the luxury of parking on E 19:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:31432 19:04 there's a thought actually 19:04 I don't think Evil casting monsters have a way to cure disease 19:05 question there being "how many are even vulnerable to begin with" 19:05 count out L for sure 19:07 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2041 19:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:2258 19:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) attained the rank of Sorceress (level 18), on T:40422 19:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of genocide 19:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (humans), on T:1 19:10 though that's another thought: liches are actually damn solid as pets now compared to vanilla 19:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1947 points, T:2590, killed by a soldier ant 19:11 where they're still solid but not necessarily so much in the "killing things" department 19:11 since Evil enables mvm casting 19:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha) destroyed Death, on T:31625 19:12 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:19036 19:14 i noticed that neither orcus nor asmodeus teleported to the upstairs to heal 19:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:3829 19:15 they just disappeared and appeared next to me immediately 19:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bar Vam Mal Cha), 4762422 points, T:31662, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/Demo/dnethack/dumplog/1689525662.dnh.txt 19:15 juib however teleported to the upstairs after i hit him 19:15 nice grats Demo 19:15 gg as usual 19:15 oh yeah that's another new thing 19:16 that iir was somewhat accidental but they went "throw it in" 19:16 they'll pick a type of stair to warp to and consistently go towards that one 19:16 first "chill astral cause veil wasn't pierced" run 19:16 that tele shit was really annoying, but now they are more trivial 19:16 for you or in general 19:16 @ Demo 19:16 since it was added 19:17 also i recorded the whole run and commentary while i was doing it 19:17 meant to be a good example of a more vanilla like entry level dnh run 19:18 ic 19:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:3998 19:18 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 19:20 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) killed Lolth, on T:31308 (20:54:18) 19:21 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by engraving "xx", on T:6067 19:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:4182 19:25 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Mon Hum Fem Cha) performed her first annihilation (shocking spheres), on T:11568 (3:50:21) 19:26 great, Woodland-elf helped himself to a scroll of earth in Soko, botching the whole level 19:28 only 5 players with sub 20k in dnh? 19:28 hate when that happens 19:28 when I came back to NetHack after a several years' break, actually the main thing I got wrong was messing up Sokoban 19:28 rare as it is 19:28 you might have to bust them all and come back way later 19:29 and then dying while trying to find the items to fix it 19:29 when your luck as reset 19:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:8015 19:29 has 19:29 I just barely managed to scrape together 2800zm (lv7) for the MT priest 19:30 and he only gave me 2 points of AC, blahg 19:30 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Cha) entered the adventure town for the first time, on T:20022 19:30 oh, and I hate grotto town maybe even more than orctown 19:31 he was a seminary dropout 19:31 which one is grotto town? 19:31 dark one I think? 19:31 the dark one with the gnome leader statue 19:31 which yeah, that one's ass unless you have a proper lamp imo 19:31 the one with all shops guaranteed? 19:31 not as turboass as monkeytown but still p. not desirable 19:31 yeah, monsters in the dark but watchmen wandering around 19:31 so you can't just force bolt everything 19:32 stenno: that's a big point in its favor actually 19:32 that is the best minetown 19:32 arguably the case in minetown anyway 19:32 guaranteed tool, guaranteed ring, all shops guaranteed 19:32 heh, I guess it is good if you can survive 19:32 I just don't like it being dark really 19:32 that's the only Big Thing 19:32 All 3 gnome mines levels above were in the dark 19:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:9024 19:33 better than dark orctown 19:33 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 19:33 maybe I'd better go visit Izchak (before a mumak or fire ants get me) 19:33 is there a dark orctown? Is always fully lit for me 19:34 i'm sure they're on it 19:34 for some reason a white u assaulted me in the dark, but then got stuck in a corner 2 tiles away 19:35 I took the gift and force bolted the hell out of it, thanks for the unihorn! 19:35 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35 cat got the corpse though 19:36 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 19:36 !streak grasshopper 19:36 anselmus: [hdf-us] grasshopper Max[nh363]: 6 (2017-03-17 - 2017-05-14). Current[nh363]: 2 (since 2018-05-02). :: [hdf-eu] grasshopper Max[nh363]: 2 (2018-05-16 - 2018-05-28)(current). :: [hdf-au] grasshopper Max[nh363]: 4 (2018-06-01 - 2018-06-25). Current[nh370]: 3 (since 2023-06-19). 19:37 hmm, Izchak is selling a lamp for 50zm, maybe this town isn't so bad after all :D 19:37 nice 19:37 x2 19:38 speaking of, I have to get back to orc town 19:38 After a break, feels like I've been killing a few wizards lately, but gotten some momentum since then 19:38 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:38 got demons to summon 19:39 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Wiz Mer Nbn Neu), 0 points, T:1, zapped themself with a spell 19:39 looking to get cozy with Yeeno or Demo? 19:39 you can't summon peaceful Demo via same race 19:39 would that it were possible 19:40 now I just remembered that I used literally all my gold for protection, can't even buy a lamp with 0zm 19:40 woopsie 19:40 ah well, sell some shit 19:40 i should probably at least acquaint myself with 37 in case i have to play it in nov 19:40 also conquering orc town takes a lot less than you'd think initially, but poison res + like 0 AC give or take is about the bar 19:40 Izchak has 2x 50zm lamps! 19:41 Umbire, yeah 0AC makes it fairly easy, PR FTW 19:41 which means healer ironically is probably the """easiest""" pivot from a failed prot racket 19:41 One, two... 19:41 [hdf-us] [nh343] docpi (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) retrieved the Mine's End luckstone, on T:9766 19:41 ...three 19:41 but, if you get all the orcs lined up in those corridors, it can be fun with force bolts 19:41 correct 19:42 some variants actually add a secret door in 19:42 orc golfing! try to minimize how many bolts you need to kill those orcs! 19:42 orc pinball! 19:43 see how many orcs you can get in one shot 19:44 think my ranger played orc tennis in my parked 3.7 game 19:44 something something volleys return aces 19:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Sokoban amulet of reflection, on T:11402 19:45 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:31899 (21:18:34) 19:45 [hdf-eu] [un] Umbire (Bar Orc Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4195 (3:38:13) 19:45 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) killed Orcus, on T:31904 (21:19:13) 19:46 Umbire, lol 19:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) wished for "Blessed spellbook of polymorph", got "a cloth spellbook", on T:40994 19:50 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 19:50 [hdf-us] [spl] nabru (Bar Mer Nbn Neu) destroyed post163's ghost, the former Conjurer, on T:1179 19:53 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 4796 points, T:6274, killed by a blast of fire exhaled by a red dragon 19:54 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:32153 (21:27:29) 19:54 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:32155 (21:27:39) 19:54 so much for that - decided to explore area around stairs on level below MT, gnome jumps into a nearby poly trap and turns into red dragon, blast me, bounces, blasted again dead 19:55 rough. 19:55 [hdf-us] [spl] nabru (Bar Mer Nbn Neu), 1335 points, T:2072, killed by a rothe 19:55 was burdened cos just picked up some shit laying around 19:56 one drawback of the speed randomization changes is that theoretically, being burdened even for a turn with no monsters around can mean death 19:56 although it's very unlikely 19:56 on that note Un still has a v. 3.4.3-like speed system 20:00 what I find weird is that monsters seem to sense when they'll get the extra speed, and wait until stepping out so they can also shoot/zap/blast you 20:00 [hdf-eu] [un] Umbire (Bar Orc Mal Cha) entered Minetown, on T:4656 (3:53:49) 20:01 meh could just be unlucky 20:01 also depends a lot on how you move 20:02 Grasshopper: AFAICT monsters can move+attack in 3.7 20:02 and probably earlier versions too 20:02 even if they're slow 20:02 maybe only with ranged attacks? 20:02 that's probably what you're encountering 20:02 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 20:02 Umbire, what I mean is you know the monster is just around the corner and wait for it, wait for it, wait for it, and then it comes only when it has the speed boost 20:03 ah that 20:03 yeah I don't hit that often but it sucks 20:03 yeah 20:03 that red dragon before was just bad luck 20:04 fwiw, I suspect that level as a bones level 20:04 what like before you died to the dragon 20:04 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:04 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 20:04 because there was some stuff just lying around, like somebody had been there before 20:05 oh yeah, that's usually the tell 20:06 in fact I was one tile away from stairs - when I saw the poly dragon I immediately went to the stair, but dragon was faster 20:07 inb4 the expected response but honestly you might've made it if you weren't burdened 20:07 yes 20:07 though that also requires the dragonbreath to also not rebound on you 20:07 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 20:07 so who's to say, genuinely 20:08 what's done is done 20:08 yep, next game hopefully goes better 20:08 -!- oh6 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 20:08 might be time to take a break 20:09 breaks are good 20:10 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "blessed fixed Platinum Yendorian Express Card", on T:32267 (21:43:55) 20:10 might have to fish for water moccasins, nothing else non-o has generated 20:11 bah. being burdened might get you occasionally but most of the time it is inconsequential 20:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 20621 points, T:14448, killed by a leocrotta 20:12 I don't disagree lol 20:12 !lastgame grasshopper 20:12 anselmus: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Grasshopper/nethack/dumplog/1627134745.nh.html :: [hdf-eu] (sorry, no dump exists for nh363:Grasshopper) :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Grasshopper/nethack/dumplog/1689522981.nh.html 20:14 @?disenchanter 20:14 disenchanter (R) | Lvl: 12 | Diff: 14 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 0 | Gen: gehennom | AC: -10 | Atk: 4d4 claw disenchant, 0d0 passive disenchant | Align: -3 | genocidable, carnivore, infravis 20:15 [hdf-us] [slshm] Lukethecool1001 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 10313 points, T:4008, killed by a winter wolf 20:16 i don't know if i would've left minetown without converting the lamp wishes 20:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:41450 20:16 but that was brutal 20:16 aw, dog didn't leave a corpse 20:17 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:1859 20:20 oh good, kobold might do it 20:20 YEEEEAHH 20:20 anselmus, I was on way back to buy the lamps 20:20 Unluckily, you feel the power of Set decrease. 20:20 :[ 20:20 :( 20:20 but as for wishes, that was still a long way off 20:21 what lamps 20:21 magic lamps at Izchaks 20:22 and all I wanted to do was map the area around the stairs for next time, or in case of falling through trap door 20:22 ok clearly i missed that 20:22 spent all money on protection, spotted the lamps after 20:22 "nbd, gonna go sell some shit" 20:22 then things went sideways 20:22 it happens 20:22 yeah and stairs are on way back from shop 20:23 and there was a key near the downstairs too, coolies thought me 20:23 so izchak had multiple magic lamps? 20:23 bah, the RNG gets us all in the end 20:23 lotg 20:23 he has 2x 50zm lamps 20:23 had 20:24 but I needed to sell some crap first 20:24 both cursed ime 20:24 most probably! 20:25 can't count the number of times that barstrad has sold me cursed lamps 20:25 no go with mold dropping a corpse either 20:25 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:48793 (18:51:29) 20:25 or i stole them. i forget 20:25 hehe 20:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) has been given Excalibur, and now enjoys supreme executive power, on T:4235 20:30 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Cha) killed the Archipelago Ancient, on T:21186 20:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:5248 20:31 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Cerberus, on T:63052 (12:03:00) 20:32 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:63134 (12:04:24) 20:33 not a lot of o left, can't get a convertible corpse 20:33 what I try to do is keep some behind boulders, doors if possible 20:34 then secure the altar area first, and come back to mop up the stragglers 20:34 or just move boulders, open doors and let them come to 20:35 you 20:36 I dig right to the altar and let them come there 20:37 the primary "wrinkle" is I'm usually not an orc 20:40 !lastgame dragonsidedd 20:40 nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/DragonSidedD/xnethack/dumplog/1689518024.xnh.html 20:40 no luck from the fountains either 20:40 I'll just leave the last few and grab the luckstone 20:42 [hdf-us] [xnh] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:1155 20:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:40975 20:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 22967 points, T:8463, quit 20:44 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed Wallet of Perseus", on T:32823 (22:18:10) 20:47 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 20:51 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:51 [hdf-us] [hackm] willisllama (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 81 points, T:333, killed by a bear trap 20:59 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:5349 21:03 [hdf-us] [hackm] willisllama (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 455 points, T:1003, killed by a bolt of lightning 21:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] Goran (Pri Hum Mal Neu) destroyed elenmirie's ghost, the former Bachelor, on T:2199 21:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:6261 21:06 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 21:09 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:09 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 21:11 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 21:13 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest4382 21:13 -!- Guest4382 has quit [Killed (zirconium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 21:13 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 21:13 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 21:15 [hdf-us] [hackm] willisllama (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 50 points, T:1000, killed by a kobold 21:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] Goran (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 1889 points, T:2708, killed by a warhorse 21:17 wew I think post bones had slow dig 21:18 also unskilled weapon training in Un isn't the dealbreaker I felt like it used to be a long while ago but it's a lot of investment 21:22 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:33735 (22:55:34) 21:24 I think part of the thing re: build diversity is having to train up new skills for unskilled weapons 21:25 leocrotta jumpscare, brb 21:26 there we go, few striking zaps 21:26 helps I had slow monster + invis ring 21:37 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Mon Cen Mal Neu) averted death (decapitated by a vorpal jabberwock), on T:34151 (23:09:46) 21:39 uh oh, milky gain level 21:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:7102 21:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Sokoban amulet of reflection, on T:7195 21:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha) murdered Lana, her faithful fire ant, on T:7231 21:50 -!- Arseniy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:54 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #hardfought 21:55 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:56 -!- docpi has quit [Quit: oh?] 21:56 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 22:01 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 22:14 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:14 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 22:16 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 22:17 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 22:17 -!- lorimer has quit [Quit: NAE TROOSERS] 22:19 worst of the net diarrhea's passed I hope 22:21 concerned I got mines end bones but apparently the older catacombs map just seems to be Like That 22:21 which also includes having a minotaur, completely forgot about that 22:22 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:24 upshot is I have cold res so I can go for wand rebounds without frosting myself 22:26 [hdf-us] [hackm] Frozty (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed Shelob, on T:21636 (1 day, 6:30:31) 22:28 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #hardfought 22:36 ...well it and the vampires are gone now 22:36 foreboding 22:37 [hdf-us] [slth] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the ghost of nadh, the former Thaumaturge, on T:3168 22:37 seems they hit a bunch of levelporters while I was waiting out HP 22:37 oh shadowrider38, decided to try the classic for next ascension? :B 22:37 yeah why not 22:38 need some warmup 22:38 [hdf-us] [hackm] Frozty (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed Girtab, on T:21766 (1 day, 6:42:30) 22:39 well GL in any case 22:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] discardedjoker (Val Dwa Fem Law), 584 points, T:2689, killed by a rothe, while frozen by a floating eye's gaze 22:40 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2654 points, T:3071, killed by an ape 22:41 thanks 22:43 [hdf-us] [evil] Sioh (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) stole 246 zorkmids worth of merchandise from Njezjin's liquor emporium, on T:4033 (1:01:09) 22:46 hm, poly trap 22:47 that could've also gotten at least the mino 22:48 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 22:50 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 22:52 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 22:54 two levelporters right next to each other 22:58 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 22:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] discardedjoker (Val Dwa Fem Law), 522 points, T:1887, killed by a giant bat 23:00 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 23:04 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:1473 (0:05:18) 23:05 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Mal Cha) had a bone javelin entrusted to him by Lolth, on T:16842 (3:40:17) 23:06 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Umbire zaps a wand of digging!] 23:06 -!- chao has joined #hardfought 23:07 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:08 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:08 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 23:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Law) made his first wish - "blessed fireproof +2 speed boots", got "a pair of mud boots", on T:3389 23:14 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:14 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:15 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1749 (0:16:36) 23:16 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 23:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Law) destroyed ais523's ghost, the former Bachelor, on T:3684 23:17 [hdf-us] [slth] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the Rat King, on T:9261 23:20 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:4221 23:23 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 23:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] discardedjoker (Rog Orc Mal Cha) murdered his faithful little dog, on T:2147 23:24 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest1431 23:25 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 23:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] discardedjoker (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 504 points, T:2437, killed by a giant bat 23:28 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 23:28 -!- Guest1431 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:29 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:35 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 23:40 -!- Umbire has quit [Killed (zirconium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 23:40 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 23:51 cool, think my net's done exploding 23:52 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Law) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Eilistraee, on T:293993 (20:36:18) 23:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class h), on T:42463 23:58 this time around, only one magic lamp at Izchak's 23:59 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Law) had Sunsword bestowed upon him by Eilistraee, on T:294567 (20:43:42)