00:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Con Dro Fem Cha), 3 points, T:189, killed by a sewer rat 00:00 huh yeah that's weird 00:00 hdf-au only ipv6 accessible 00:00 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:02 hah when it came back up last night its public facing ipv4 address changed 00:02 i need to update dns 00:02 easy peasy 00:03 it's always DNS 00:03 did you reboot? yes. did that fix it? no. check dns 00:03 https://i.imgur.com/WmRbmf5.png 00:04 hah 00:04 yeah the ipv6 address stayed the same, just ipv4 changed. how odd 00:04 anyways, dns record updated 00:05 give it a bit of time 00:05 brb 00:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:27226 00:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:27228 00:09 honestly I was hoping it would be some cypherpunk shit 00:09 Demo: Message from nabru at 2023-07-08 21:25 EDT: why does an etherealoid get artifact gifts they can't use? (ndnh) 00:11 !tell nabru https://github.com/demogorgon22/notdnethack/commit/adc39b9f0e526eb147f37e2f042e6214028bef87 00:11 nabru shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, Demo. 00:11 thanks 00:11 nabru: Message from Demo at 2023-07-09 00:11 EDT: https://github.com/demogorgon22/notdnethack/commit/adc39b9f0e526eb147f37e2f042e6214028bef87 00:12 I think if you got gloves brand you got hit by the caveat in the commit msg 00:12 "the true otyp" 00:12 yep, that seems to make sense 00:13 I'm not sure how you have gloves brands though 00:13 IDK, either 00:13 was it leather gauntlets? 00:13 or was it a magical base? 00:13 I don't recall (already died) 00:13 !lastgame nabru 00:13 nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nabru/notdnethack/dumplog/1688864759.ndnh.txt :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nabru/evilhack/dumplog/1683120838.evil.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nabru/nethack4/dumplog/2020-08-11%2011%3A15%3A06%2C%20Testin%27-Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 00:13 the uncursed shatterproof +0 Frost Brand 00:14 maybe because I was playing a monk? 00:14 classic dumplog 00:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5th time), on T:27813 00:14 could be that 00:14 that seems to make sense, as I was playing weaponless 00:15 yeah thats a bad spot to be in 00:15 I think the code that tries to prevent eth from getting armor assumes the brands are swords because that's all it knows 00:15 but being in the spot of trying to avoid armor gifts and weapon gifts is tricky 00:16 also eth monks have to play weaponful to have a usable mid-late game build. fortunately monk weapons are in a pretty good spot 00:17 I see 00:17 I did make unarmed eth attacks energy mask which does give them more room to be usable longer 00:17 really wanted to play weaponless, but tougher monsters become a chore 00:17 but the real unarmed builds require the ability to wear gloves 00:18 -!- arahael__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:19 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, acquiring a magic marker, on T:8272 (0:36:59) 00:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 1065 points, T:2555, killed by a gnome 00:19 there is a movement underfoot in ndnh to try to figure out a balanced way to make neutral monk crowning give phasing 00:20 not really sure where that is going to go 00:20 probably not very useful for eths 00:22 -!- Bleeko has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) entered the Elemental Planes, on T:28983 00:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) entered Plane of Earth, on T:28983 00:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) entered Plane of Air, on T:29012 00:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) entered Plane of Fire, on T:29045 00:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) entered Plane of Water, on T:29081 00:28 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) was sent a couatl by Tyr, on T:10131 (0:45:52) 00:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) entered the Astral Plane, on T:29222 00:31 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 00:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) wished for "blessed cockatrice corpse", got "a blessed cockatrice corpse", on T:29224 00:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) killed Famine, on T:29232 00:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) wished for "blessed +5 helm of opposite alignment", got "a blessed visored helmet", on T:29249 00:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) used a helm to turn lawful, on T:29252 00:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Law), 956950 points, T:29252, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/C/Cropper/nethack/dumplog/1688391128.nh.html 00:35 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4039 00:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 104 points, T:593, killed by a black pudding 00:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2458 points, T:4056, killed by a werewolf 00:43 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Gungnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:12145 (1:01:09) 00:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 910 points, T:2300, killed by an arrow 00:45 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Pri Dro Fem Cha), 295 points, T:862, killed by a boulder 00:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:8344 00:50 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:13219 (1:08:26) 00:51 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Dro Fem Cha), 456 points, T:1250, killed by an orc zombie 00:53 -!- neoxy has quit [Server closed connection] 00:53 -!- neoxy has joined #hardfought 00:54 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 00:55 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Ruggo the Gnome King, on T:13694 (1:13:19) 00:55 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Bar Cen Mal Neu) killed Grund, on T:15940 (8:16:54) 00:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 50 points, T:1591, killed by Mr. Kyzyl, the shopkeeper 00:58 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:59 -!- cathartes has quit [Quit: fly away] 01:00 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Car Dro Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a barghest, on T:16724 01:02 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Car Dro Mal Cha), 6306 points, T:16991, killed by a soldier ant 01:05 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed shadowrider38's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:15108 (1:23:05) 01:08 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) was sent a lamassu by Tyr, on T:16733 (1:25:48) 01:08 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2266 (0:23:12) 01:09 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Fem Cha) killed Gollum, on T:2363 (0:24:14) 01:09 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Cav Gno Mal Law), 204 points, T:1152, killed by an earth elemental of Ishtar 01:11 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Bar Cen Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 dragonhide T-shirt of searching", on T:16038 (8:32:38) 01:12 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) was sent a couatl by Tyr, on T:19180 (1:29:50) 01:13 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) was sent an Aleax by Tyr, on T:20311 (1:31:06) 01:16 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) was crowned "The Hand of Elbereth" by Tyr, on T:22816 (1:34:29) 01:23 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Bar Cen Mal Neu) had Angelslayer bestowed upon him by Crom, on T:16265 (8:44:18) 01:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 20182 points, T:10400, killed by a xan, while frozen by a floating eye's gaze 01:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping an arrow on an altar, on T:3055 01:25 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Dro Fem Cha), 2916 points, T:2967, poisoned by a gray fungus, while praying 01:26 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 50 points, T:752, killed by Mr. Siverek, the shopkeeper 01:34 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Elf Mal Cha) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:3370 01:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) was bestowed with Magicbane by Thoth, on T:4572 01:39 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 01:39 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu), 612 points, T:2027, zombified by a diseased hobbit corpse 01:43 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 01:47 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Bar Cen Mal Neu) killed Nebuchadnezzar, on T:16892 (9:08:57) 01:51 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Elf Mal Cha) attained the rank of Page of Claws, on T:4618 01:52 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 02:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:1542 (0:10:24) 02:08 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 56618 points, T:24763, killed by a death ray 02:13 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:920 (0:20:44) 02:13 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 02:20 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:21 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:3581 (0:30:52) 02:24 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:26 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 02:29 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Bar Cen Mal Neu) killed Xanathar, on T:18055 (9:51:03) 02:31 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:4104 (0:41:11) 02:33 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Mal Neu), 40673 points, T:16836, zombified by an orc zombie 02:35 [hdf-us] [nh4] cpittman (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 37904 points, T:4524, killed by a fire ant 02:44 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu), 5485 points, T:5025, killed by a bolt of fire 02:45 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 02:46 <@cpittman> You're a level 1 wizard that falls through a trap door to dungeon level 5: "chuckles I'm in danger!" 02:47 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:47 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 02:47 <@fredriq> K2: yeah, there were 4 ops for a time 02:47 <@fredriq> you, tangles, Mandevil and me 02:47 <@cpittman> Can't even cast any spells 02:49 <@cpittman> @fredriq I've never played a wizard in fiq, am I going to forget how to use starting spells, or are those fixed? 02:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 8386 points, T:9142, killed by a rope golem, while praying 02:50 <@fredriq> you will forget after 60k turns 02:50 <@fredriq> like with any spell 02:50 <@fredriq> crowned players keep their special spell indefinitely, including wiz 02:50 -!- theRaisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 02:50 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1116 points, T:1794, killed by a gnome lord, while praying 02:54 <@fredriq> !whereis cpittman 02:54 @fredriq: [hdf-us] cpittman [fh]: (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) T:775 The Dungeons of Doom level: 5 02:54 <@fredriq> ah 02:55 <@fredriq> I wonder what the chance is to fall from d1 to vs 02:55 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 02:55 <@cpittman> Yeah, I tried to do a post and kill a wizard on t1, but it made it through Sokoban in fourk. Then I wanted to try fiq again 02:56 <@cpittman> Went from dlvl 3 to 5, but clvl1 02:56 <@fredriq> "tried to do a post"? 02:56 <@cpittman> post163, kill the character on turn1 02:57 <@fredriq> ah 02:57 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Dra Elf Mal Cha), 3699 points, T:5492, killed by a gnome 02:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 418 points, T:1174, killed by a werejackal 02:57 -!- eggandhull has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:59 <@cpittman> Does searching in fiq reveal everything in the room, or within a radius? I found a trap 2 squares away 02:59 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 27424 points, T:901, killed by a pony 03:01 [hdf-us] [slshm] wsx9000 (Wiz Dop Fem Cha), 796 points, T:1684, killed by a kitten 03:02 Radius 03:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 460 points, T:1849, killed by a giant bat 03:03 K2: Ah, ha, so it was DNS. Of course. :D It's always DNS! 03:04 <@cpittman> I thought the quote was, "It's NEVER DNS, except when it is." 03:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2313 points, T:2261, killed by a dwarf king 03:07 <@cpittman> "You sense a mild buzz coming from Murder Bastard." - Thanks, cat, for stealing my mana. 03:13 <@fredriq> @cpittman look at the searching nethackwiki page 03:13 <@fredriq> it explains fh search in detail 03:14 <@cpittman> Oh, I'm still not used to seeing variants fully explained on the wiki 03:14 <@fredriq> most fh info is on the fh wikipage 03:15 <@fredriq> but more involved changes are typically also added to their respective article(s) 03:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) entered the Bigroom, on T:16898 03:20 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 184 points, T:640, killed by a crossbow bolt 03:21 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 03:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 763 points, T:592, killed by an arrow 03:23 <@cpittman> I think the defaults in fiq make it look really good. My favorite feature is searching to find where you saw some item 03:25 <@fredriq> my general understanding from seeing others comment on it is that fiqhack QoL is generally regarded as outstanding, but that the AI changes and symmetry makes the game substantially more difficult 03:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) became literate by naming Sting, on T:540 03:27 [hdf-us] [ndnh] nabru (Wiz Eth Fem Neu), 273 points, T:183, killed by touching Lomya 03:27 !lastgame nabru 03:27 nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nabru/notdnethack/dumplog/1688887537.ndnh.txt :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nabru/evilhack/dumplog/1683120838.evil.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nabru/nethack4/dumplog/2020-08-11%2011%3A15%3A06%2C%20Testin%27-Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 03:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 1402 points, T:3719, killed by a dwarf, while paralyzed by a ghoul 03:31 <@fredriq> ok so 03:31 <@fredriq> players should have willpower in fiqhack 03:31 <@fredriq> I think I'll give a baseline of 20, then +N per level where N depends on role 03:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:1282 03:32 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered Fort Ludios, on T:58614 (13:13:57) 03:32 <@fredriq> with monks having the highest and tourist the lowest, everyone else falling somewhere inbetween 03:33 <@cpittman> Is that the same as Pw? Because each of my wizards start with 6 03:33 <@cpittman> with 8 required for Force Bolt 03:33 <@fredriq> willpower is called "monster magic resistance" in vanilla 03:33 <@fredriq> which is a dumb name 03:33 <@cpittman> Ah 03:34 <@fredriq> try to press : when farlooking a monster in fiqhack 03:34 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu), 291 points, T:1284, killed by a sewer rat 03:34 <@fredriq> you'll see a willpower stat 03:34 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 20887 points, T:1192, killed by a wererat 03:34 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) destroyed vor's ghost, the former Digger, on T:3405 03:38 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 1355 points, T:1804, killed by a rabid rat 03:41 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Sam Gno Fem Law), 1672 points, T:6256, choked on a food ration 03:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) made her first wish - "3 blessed scrolls of charging", got "a scroll labeled ELBIB YLOH", on T:19011 03:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", got "a greased gray dragon scale mail", on T:19014 03:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "Blessed fixed +2 Mjollnir", got "a blessed war hammer named Mjollnir", on T:4390 03:42 <@fredriq> these numbers are just throwing ideas, should probably be refined: Arc: 20+2, Bar: 5+3, Cav: 50+2, Hea: 20+2, Knight: 30+3, Mon: 10+4, Priest: 20+3, Rogue: 20+2, Ranger: 30+2, Samurai: 30+2, Tourist: 5+1, Valkyrie: 10+2, Wizard: 40+1 03:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 2343 points, T:1453, killed by a gnome, while sleeping 03:44 <@fredriq> why mjollnir wish 03:45 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Raisse (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:32157 03:45 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Raisse (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 351 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:32169 03:46 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 03:47 Not interested in sacfesting for it, ig 03:47 <@fredriq> YANI: merge all of Sokoban into a single level, let the player see the reward straight off to see if they want to bother 03:47 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:47 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 03:47 beyond just Not Knowing generally what awaits to kill them and how 03:48 honestly as a sokoban liker I don't hate the idea of trying to replace it, just a whole bag of w to do so 03:48 tall order no matter how you slice it 03:49 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 4186 points, T:5388, killed by a tengu, while fainted from lack of food 03:49 and that'll do it 03:50 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Croesus, on T:59440 03:50 but yeah I can sorta see how you'd manage it, esp. since aosdict has working teleporter puzzles as a concept to springboard from 03:51 you could also puzzle piece them together with halls in a way 03:52 <@fredriq> !tell ais523 https://nhqdb.alt.org/?4206 turn off antialiased fonts if you can. This is a really obnoxious bug in some linux terminals, iirc gnome-terminal is one of them that you can't work-around. I ended up compiling a patched Konsole some years ago that didn't try to "prettify" the shaded characters 03:52 I'm on it, @fredriq. 03:53 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Val Mer Nbn Neu), 496 points, T:1739, killed by a gnome lord 03:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 230 points, T:856, killed by a gnome, while unconscious from rotten food 03:56 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:59 <@cpittman> I always head straight for sokoban just for the food 03:59 <@cpittman> Everything else is a bonus 04:00 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:00 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Sam Gno Nbn Law), 175 points, T:550, killed by a plasma elemental of Raijin 04:01 <@fredriq> I kinda like what dnh did with soko boulders 04:01 <@fredriq> they're "crates" (justifying non-diagonal movement) and dropping them into pits make them pop open and reveal food inside 04:01 <@fredriq> all soko food are stored inside them 04:04 yeah that's a real quality touch 04:04 shame they still give luck penalties if you break open the spares 04:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 972 points, T:1442, killed by a bugbear 04:07 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2748 04:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:3200 04:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 4569 points, T:3316, killed by a giant mimic 04:19 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Cha) killed Sir Garland, on T:13779 04:24 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) wished for "spellbook of finger of death", on T:59937 04:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 3541 points, T:2066, killed by a gnome 04:25 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) wished for "Spellbook of polymorph", on T:59938 04:25 -!- rld has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 04:25 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 04:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by engraving "xx", on T:3627 04:29 [hdf-us] [hackm] Orcranger (Und Hum Mal Law), 9150 points, T:7113, killed by a death ray 04:30 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 04:30 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 04:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 985 points, T:1103, killed by an orcish dagger 04:35 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:4668 04:35 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 5837 points, T:4799, quit 04:36 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 04:37 [hdf-eu] [nh370] playerb (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:5144 04:39 [hdf-us] [hackm] xialg (Kni Hum Mal Law), 3238 points, T:5835, killed by a large dingo, while praying 04:40 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Ran Orc Mal Cha), 614 points, T:1194, burned by a fireball 04:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:1789 04:40 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest8291 04:41 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 04:44 -!- Umbire has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 1476 points, T:2920, killed by a llama 04:44 -!- Guest8291 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:44 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 04:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] playerb (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3687 points, T:5549, killed by a mumak 04:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 460 points, T:1339, killed by a gas spore's explosion 04:48 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 4524 points, T:3602, killed by a gray unicorn 04:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) murdered her faithful homunculus, on T:137 04:49 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:3592 (0:50:54) 04:49 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:3482 04:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Bar Orc Mal Cha) was bestowed with Fire Brand by Set, on T:20441 04:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "2 holy charging", got "2 scrolls labeled XOR OTA", on T:2456 04:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", got "a greased gray dragon scale mail", on T:2458 04:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy greased bag of holding", got "a greased bag", on T:2470 04:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy +2 shield of reflection", got "a polished silver shield", on T:2471 04:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy +2 long sword", got "a long sword", on T:2752 05:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) has been given Excalibur, and now enjoys supreme executive power, on T:4627 05:05 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:4830 05:05 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2316 (1:07:31) 05:07 castle looks clear except for mino 05:08 Your run, I'm assuming? 05:08 -!- fakepass has joined #hardfought 05:09 yes 05:10 Well good luck going forward. 05:10 I'm gonna see if I can clear Ludios and Soko to get XL 14. 05:11 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping 2 clear potions on an altar, on T:7491 05:12 thanks you too :) 05:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 360 points, T:1521, killed by a gnome 05:14 June proved I can do Elberethless damn well, just need to not play myself into a corner. 05:14 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Tou Gno Nbn Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:2630 05:18 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Tou Gno Nbn Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3295 05:19 is that what the umberconductor account is for? 05:19 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Tou Gno Nbn Neu), 1413 points, T:3300, killed by a grizzly bear 05:20 Yeah, it's meant to be general conduct-type stuff, though I've also used it as a straight up alt for more "pressing" matters. 05:20 (e.g. wanting to play more Evil with several games parked) 05:23 would be cool if the game rewarded you directly for hard conducts, like an arti or something 05:23 nite 05:23 -!- anselmus has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Goran's ghost, the former Acolyte, on T:3612 05:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:13206 05:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a gargoyle, on T:5905 05:27 [hdf-us] [hackm] xialg (Kni Hum Mal Law) destroyed xialg's ghost, the former Bachelor, on T:4866 (0:47:42) 05:27 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 05:27 -!- UnFortuneCookie has quit [Server closed connection] 05:30 <@fredriq> I have tentative ideas for the ability to make pacts with demons. You get a strong power in exchange for being forced to follow a certain conduct for the rest of the game (not just the standard conducts, but demon-exclusive ones) 05:31 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4255 (1:33:01) 05:31 <@fredriq> as an example; supernatural very fast HP regeneration in exchange for losing 1 max HP occasionally if hurt 05:32 -!- UnFortuneCookie has joined #hardfought 05:32 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu), 4138 points, T:4262, poisoned by a killer bee 05:32 <@fredriq> or becoming inediate (rip getting intrinsics from corpses) 05:33 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) performed her first genocide (two random monsters from class ;), on T:254 (0:00:49) 05:34 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Bar Hum Mal Cha), 817 points, T:1679, killed by an invisible dwarf, while unconscious from rotten food 05:38 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1383 (0:05:58) 05:41 I see 05:41 fascinating 05:43 -!- Arseniy has joined #hardfought 05:47 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 4546 points, T:2842, killed by a tortle shaman, while paralyzed by a monster 05:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:5545 05:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:7634 05:57 Re: Soko, I keep bouncing around the idea of a Lewis Carroll-themed branch 05:57 Which I was doing previously but now I'm wondering if it might not be possible to swing it as a Soko replacement also 05:58 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Tou Gno Fem Neu), 667 points, T:1847, killed by a bar-lgura of Offler 05:58 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 05:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 2318 points, T:6527, killed by a killer bee, while fainted from lack of food 06:00 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 1246 points, T:2330, killed by a bolt of lightning 06:03 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "marker", got "a magic marker", on T:15671 06:09 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Cav Gno Fem Law), 851 points, T:1969, killed by a glass crossbow bolt 06:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed ring of teleport control", got "a diamond ring", on T:16287 06:13 [hdf-au] [nh370] UmberConductor (Ran Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Croesus, on T:35137 06:19 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 06:19 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "", got "a black gem", on T:18384 06:19 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "marker", got "a magic marker", on T:18385 06:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Warrior (level 14), on T:18407 06:21 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Pri Elf Mal Cha) had Gae Bulg bestowed upon him by Poseidon, on T:1974 06:22 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest5847 06:22 -!- Guest5847 has quit [Killed (erbium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 06:22 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 06:23 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 731 points, T:2213, killed by a gnome lady 06:23 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) found the Orb of Fate on the floor, on T:19387 06:27 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:19391 06:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:19396 06:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) destroyed vor's ghost, the former Digger, on T:1987 06:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha) entered the Bigroom, on T:10535 06:35 [hdf-eu] [hackm] mobileuser (Sam Dwa Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:18099 (7:50:39) 06:35 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 06:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 411 points, T:2478, killed by a hobgoblin 06:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] MalkMcJorma (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 31903 points, T:11651, killed by a leocrotta 06:45 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Ran Dwa Mal Neu) was reincarnated as a hobgoblin, on T:2339 06:46 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Ran Dwa Mal Neu), 739 points, T:2339, killed while stuck in creature form, while helpless 06:48 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:2100 06:48 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "asdfasdf", on T:3480 (2:13:51) 06:50 [hdf-eu] [hackm] mobileuser (Sam Dwa Fem Law) killed Ruggo the Gnome King, on T:18233 (8:02:59) 06:58 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 119947 points, T:19582, killed by brainlessness 07:03 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:1898 07:05 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) destroyed VFD's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:4636 07:09 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) averted death (suffocated by a sea dragon), on T:5397 (2:34:44) 07:10 Well, that was freaking fortunate. That was a *random* amulet I just picked up! 07:14 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) consumed animal products (cream pie) for the first time, on T:6716 (2:39:35) 07:15 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 691030 points, T:64259, killed by brainlessness 07:17 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:19 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:6099 07:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Fem Law) murdered her faithful warhorse, on T:10944 07:23 -!- Bleeko has joined #hardfought 07:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:11840 07:28 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Sokoban amulet of reflection, on T:8295 07:31 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 6240 points, T:7109, killed by an ettin mummy 07:32 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:1144 (0:10:27) 07:36 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a pony, on T:9566 07:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at them by some watery tart, on T:10495 07:46 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Kni Inf Nbn Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:3147 07:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) destroyed xororand's ghost, the former Priest, on T:6094 07:46 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:2411 (0:24:53) 07:50 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Val Gia Fem Law) had a long sword entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:28534 (9:38:55) 07:55 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Val Gia Fem Law) murdered Xtra, her faithful large dog, on T:29091 (9:43:35) 07:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:38639 07:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:38648 07:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:38866 08:00 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Dro Fem Cha), 1686 points, T:2465, killed by a large spider 08:00 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:3250 (0:38:37) 08:02 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Kni Inf Nbn Law) attained the rank of Bachelor, on T:4271 08:04 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Kni Inf Nbn Law), 1746 points, T:4324, killed by a grizzly bear 08:06 [hdf-us] [ndnh] bleeko (Bar Hum Mal Neu) was given their Quest, on T:14603 08:09 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Val Gia Fem Law) had a pair of kicking boots entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:30482 (9:58:28) 08:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (2nd time), on T:39293 08:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (3rd time), on T:39293 08:11 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had a bone scimitar entrusted to her by Odin, on T:4121 (0:50:02) 08:14 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Val Gia Fem Law) had a shield of mobility entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:31152 (10:02:37) 08:15 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 6248 points, T:4300, poisoned by a rotted red mold corpse 08:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] post163 (Nob Hum Fem Neu), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 08:16 -!- APic has quit [Quit: [TLS] Client upgrade] 08:16 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 08:17 [hdf-us] [fh] dsfl (post163) (Kni Dwa Fem Law), 0 points, T:31, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 08:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:39406 08:18 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Dwa Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 08:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:39409 08:19 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Inf Nbn Law), 3 points, T:178, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 08:19 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of lightning 08:20 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Dra Elf Mal Cha), 0 points, T:3, slipped while mounting a saddled baby blue dragon 08:22 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Val Gia Fem Law) had a silver shield of light entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:31697 (10:11:01) 08:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] playerb (Val Dwa Fem Law) found Demonbane on the floor, on T:2090 08:24 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 418 points, T:1377, killed by a rabid rat 08:25 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 3 points, T:31, killed by an unsuccessful polymorph 08:26 [hdf-eu] [nh4] Joppe (joes) (Arc Hum Fem Neu), 3528 points, T:51, killed by a grid bug, while stuck in monster form, in polyinit mode 08:26 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Val Gia Fem Law) had a pair of leather gloves entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:32227 (10:14:56) 08:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] hatlessfool (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1132 points, T:3564, killed by a pony, while fainted from lack of food 08:27 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 4948 points, T:2635, killed by a giant watchman 08:27 [hdf-eu] [nh4] Joppe (joes) (Cav Gno Fem Neu), 1228 points, T:44, killed by a jackal, while stuck in monster form, in polyinit mode 08:28 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a wraith corpse, on T:9377 (3:49:28) 08:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 4 points, T:130, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 08:32 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hob Fem Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of fire 08:34 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 324 points, T:483, killed by a dwarf 08:35 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:40 [hdf-eu] [nh4] Joppe (joes) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 23619 points, T:3382, killed by a hobgoblin, while stuck in monster form, in polyinit mode 08:40 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) polymorphed her first item, on T:8141 08:42 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Val Gia Fem Law) had a wooden long sword entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:33412 (10:31:06) 08:44 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:46 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Ran Dro Fem Cha), 503 points, T:1696, killed by a bolt of lightning 08:48 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 995 points, T:1735, killed by the Goblin King 08:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] VFD (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:8589 08:58 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Raisse (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:32999 08:59 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:1919 (0:10:40) 09:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered the Elemental Planes, on T:40637 09:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Plane of Earth, on T:40637 09:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5th time), on T:40638 09:01 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1323 points, T:2036, killed by a piranha 09:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Plane of Air, on T:40704 09:03 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Elf Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, killed by kicking a wall 09:04 [hdf-eu] [spl] post163 (Wiz Dwa Nbn Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a sonic beam 09:04 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Dro Fem Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of cold 09:04 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Wiz Dwa Nbn Neu) performed their first annihilation (dwarves), on T:1 09:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Plane of Fire, on T:40772 09:05 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 09:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Plane of Water, on T:40781 09:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) genocided class ;, on T:40789 09:06 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 371602 points, T:66040, killed by the Cyclops 09:06 oh no :( 09:08 yeah. not sure why i didn't get another shot in 09:08 should have done something different 09:08 -!- Chris__ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:08 lots of choices, made the wrong one 09:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered the Astral Plane, on T:41031 09:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased +2 partly eaten chickatrice corpse", got "a greased partly eaten chickatrice corpse", on T:41041 09:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) killed Death, on T:41052 09:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] wendel (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 226 points, T:304, killed by a crossbow bolt 09:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] WizzyTheWeird (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:2852 09:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 32261 points, T:13188, petrified by a cockatrice 09:18 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Val Gia Fem Law) had a large shield entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:37571 (11:06:59) 09:20 [hdf-eu] [nh4] Joppe (joes) (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 32407 points, T:1394, fell into a pit, while stuck in monster form, in polyinit mode 09:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2763076 points, T:41078, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rancat/nethack/dumplog/1687546420.nh.html 09:20 [hdf-eu] [nh4] Joppe (joes) (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 0 points, T:3, killed by a jackal, while stuck in monster form, in polyinit mode 09:21 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7893 (2:50:54) 09:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] WizzyTheWeird (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 2810 points, T:3598, killed by a Grey-elf 09:25 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 110955 points, T:13526, quit 09:28 I have also splatted to the cyclops (but not in hackem) 09:28 but he is no joke 09:28 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 11 points, T:236, killed by a system shock 09:29 [hdf-eu] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Hob Mal Neu), 26 points, T:45, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 3 points, T:27, killed by kicking a wall 09:30 [hdf-eu] [xnh] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 9 points, T:24, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:12, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:31 [hdf-eu] [spl] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:70, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 09:31 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) murdered her faithful kitten, on T:1 09:33 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2915 (0:32:26) 09:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2755 09:35 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Wiz Dwa Nbn Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of annihilation 09:36 [hdf-eu] [nh4] Joppe (joes) (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 13815 points, T:1560, killed by a falling rock, while stuck in monster form, in polyinit mode 09:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 636 points, T:2987, killed by a small mimic 09:41 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:3334 (0:39:42) 09:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 7117 points, T:4779, quit 09:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 36 points, T:1, caught herself in her own ball of lightning 09:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 0 points, T:30, killed by a newt, while sleeping 09:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 516 points, T:1739, killed by a dwarf zombie, while frozen by a floating eye's gaze 09:47 [hdf-us] [ndnh] bleeko (Bar Hum Mal Neu) killed Thoth Amon, on T:18539 09:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] playerb (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at them by some watery tart, on T:5651 09:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] wendel (Ran Orc Fem Cha), 824 points, T:1250, killed by a rock piercer 09:54 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 767 points, T:2282, killed by a pony, while praying 09:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] playerb (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:6033 09:58 [hdf-us] [ndnh] nabru (Bar Hlf Fem Cha), 507 points, T:1364, killed by a half-dragon 09:59 [hdf-us] [nh343] habib (Arc Dwa Fem Law) killed the Minion of Huhetotl, on T:23186 09:59 [hdf-us] [nh343] habib (Arc Dwa Fem Law) picked up the Bell of Opening, on T:23187 10:00 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Raisse (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) found Dragonbane on the floor, on T:33073 10:00 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 908 points, T:2100, killed by a pony 10:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 7 points, T:119, killed by a goblin 10:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Mon Swn Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:741 10:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Mon Swn Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1000 10:06 [hdf-eu] [spl] post163 (Kni Dwa Nbn Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:6, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) murdered her faithful kitten, on T:69 10:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 30 points, T:75, killed by a system shock 10:07 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:2381 10:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 377 points, T:1304, killed by an arrow 10:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 12 points, T:92, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:09 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1710 points, T:2538, quit 10:10 [hdf-eu] [xnh] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:11 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:82, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:17 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:4166 10:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Mal Law) entered Sokoban, on T:2299 10:23 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Val Gia Fem Law) had a javelin entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:40753 (12:11:47) 10:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:5291 10:28 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the Dark One, on T:34652 (6:24:03) 10:28 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:34668 (6:24:13) 10:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Mon Swn Fem Neu) was given the Wrappings of the Sacred Fist, on T:8392 10:31 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Mal Neu) became literate by reading a book, on T:3051 (1:07:23) 10:32 <@cpittman> Whoops. Turns out you should probably pay attention to what race you are. Turns out cannibalism is bad? 😄 10:32 [hdf-eu] [hackm] mobileuser (Sam Dwa Fem Law) killed Aphrodite, on T:22477 (10:08:35) 10:32 <@cpittman> My damn Gnome's gonna end up a Redcap 10:33 <@post163> !who 10:33 @post163: [hdf-us] masterofpi [nh370] Kame [dnh] cpittman [fh] arrow [xnh] nabru [spl] k3ut0i [slshm] bleeko [ndnh] Aeon [evil] terrapin [evil] elron [gnoll] hothraxxa [hackm] :: [hdf-eu] playerb [nh370] post163 [nh370] DoktorL [nh370] mobileuser [hackm] :: [hdf-au] No current players 10:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:8324 10:35 yep, cannibalism is bad 10:35 [hdf-us] [fh] sdfdsl (post163) (Kni Dwa Fem Law), 0 points, T:40, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:36 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at them by some watery tart, on T:9152 10:36 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 14046 points, T:9164, killed by a plains centaur, while praying 10:36 [hdf-us] [fh] dl (post163) (Kni Dwa Fem Law), 0 points, T:82, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:37 [hdf-us] [nh4] aldf (post163) (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:61, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 2 points, T:12, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:37 [hdf-us] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 36 points, T:23, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:38 [hdf-us] [spl] nabru (Pir Mer Nbn Neu), 272 points, T:763, killed by a brown mold 10:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:42 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:7389 (1:41:23) 10:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1204 points, T:2462, quit 10:43 [hdf-us] [ndnh] bleeko (Bar Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:19720 10:43 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:43 [hdf-eu] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:4, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:44 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Mal Neu) had Drowsing Rod bestowed upon him by Hermes, on T:3351 (1:19:49) 10:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:7, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Mon Swn Fem Neu) was given the Tie-Dye Shirt of Shambhala, on T:14757 10:44 [hdf-eu] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 50 points, T:86, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:7, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:45 [hdf-eu] [spl] post163 (Kni Dwa Fem Law), 0 points, T:21, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:47 !tell nabru I saw your ndnh eth reddit post and wrote a response but i dont use reddit https://pastebin.com/raw/p4MgqV64 10:47 I'm on it, Demo. 10:47 thanks, Demo 10:47 nabru: Message from Demo at 2023-07-09 10:47 EDT: I saw your ndnh eth reddit post and wrote a response but i dont use reddit https://pastebin.com/raw/p4MgqV64 10:48 might add it to the wiki later 10:49 a lot of those dumplogs are bad examples because they involve perma converting after quest to use a cult and do unnecessary dmg builds 10:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Mon Swn Fem Neu) was given the Wallet of Perseus, on T:16491 10:49 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 860 points, T:35573, strangled to death by a guardian naga 10:50 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:2930 10:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1483 points, T:3184, quit 10:54 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)] 10:54 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 10:55 <@cpittman> wtf was I thinking cancelling my wizard?! zapped a wand at a monster and it said magical energy was absorbed around the monster. So I thought, "Does that mean it's the wand of cancellation? I didn't see a message when I engraved earlier..." Zapped myself, and now I can't cast spells. 10:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 5 points, T:91, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 10:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2228 11:01 [hdf-us] [fh] cpittman (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 32334 points, T:2882, killed by a giant mimic 11:04 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu), 19634 points, T:8981, killed by a giant leech 11:05 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 196 points, T:791, killed by the ghost of Michiel 11:08 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Wiz Vam Nbn Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by an acid stream 11:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 3914 points, T:2599, killed by a soldier ant 11:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Hum Fem Neu), 548 points, T:1345, killed by a giant bat 11:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) has been given Excalibur, and now enjoys supreme executive power, on T:2621 11:15 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1752 points, T:2625, quit 11:18 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed greased magical +3 dragonhide helm of speed", on T:8408 (1:45:02) 11:20 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Mon Swn Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 grappler's grasp", on T:26718 11:21 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1 11:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:793 11:24 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) was bestowed with Snickersnee by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:1782 11:27 [hdf-eu] [evil] post163 (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of lightning 11:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Mon Swn Fem Neu), 334775 points, T:27751, killed by a wand 11:29 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 1434 points, T:4566, killed by a mumak 11:29 one shot 11:36 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 2503 points, T:2682, killed by a boulder 11:37 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Val Dwa Fem Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:2798 11:39 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Val Dwa Fem Neu) attained the rank of Fighter, on T:3167 11:43 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Val Dwa Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3608 11:47 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 11 points, T:33, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 11:51 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu), 268 points, T:829, zombified by a gnome zombie, while helpless 11:51 [hdf-us] [un] bismatum (Sam Hum Mal Law) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:95277 (2 days, 5:43:23) 11:54 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1486 points, T:5196, quit 11:55 [hdf-eu] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Elf Mal Neu), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 11:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:9, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 11:56 [hdf-eu] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Hob Mal Law), 96 points, T:82, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 12:01 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:2618 12:02 -!- Bleeko has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:03 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Val Dwa Fem Neu), 3716 points, T:5764, killed by a wallaroo 12:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2583 points, T:4273, quit 12:05 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 12:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 12:06 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 12:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 12:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of fire zapped by herself 12:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 0 points, T:318, killed by a sewer rat 12:11 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Excalibur by the Lady of the Lake, on T:4036 12:12 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) destroyed the invisible Gouhan's ghost, the former Ninja, on T:4170 12:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) found Snickersnee on the floor, on T:4183 12:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:5005 12:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2498 points, T:5274, killed by a hill orc 12:14 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 12:14 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 12:16 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) entered Sokoban, on T:4680 12:22 [hdf-us] [spl] killer (Dra Elf Nbn Neu), 0 points, T:2, killed by a little dart 12:22 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:2832 12:22 [hdf-eu] [nh370] finitelycraig (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 866 points, T:2259, killed by falling down a mine shaft 12:23 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:5397 12:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Raisse (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:33721 12:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Raisse (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:33723 12:26 [hdf-us] [spl] killer (Dra Elf Nbn Neu), 5 points, T:50, killed by a shadowy sewer rat 12:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) found the Eye of the Aethiopica on the floor, on T:35035 12:34 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu), 4223 points, T:5104, killed by the Goblin King 12:35 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 12:36 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 12:37 -!- floorcrawler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:39 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:39 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Dra Elf Nbn Neu), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled baby silver dragon 12:40 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Wiz Gia Mal Cha), 86 points, T:87, killed by a system shock 12:40 [hdf-eu] [spl] post163 (Wiz Hum Nbn Cha), 0 points, T:1, zapped themself with a spell 12:43 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu), 288 points, T:978, killed by a small mimic 12:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:3597 12:47 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 12:50 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu), 517 points, T:1113, killed by a bugbear 13:02 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest5065 13:02 -!- Guest5065 has quit [Killed (zirconium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 13:02 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 13:02 <@fredriq> !tell K2 you never updated fh earlier? either way I pushed a new one 13:02 I'm on it, @fredriq. 13:02 <@fredriq> minor fix 13:03 -!- anselmus has joined #hardfought 13:05 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 13:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 13:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, killed by kicking a wall 13:14 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 2342 points, T:4106, killed by a rothe 13:21 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:3539 (0:29:59) 13:21 I think I go nurse dancing before I commit to quest, assuming I finally make the level requirement 13:21 16k exp to go, ID'd enlightenment potion but trying to alchemize gain level didn't work so 13:22 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) became literate by reading a tin label, on T:4219 13:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Val Hum Fem Neu), 2514 points, T:4426, killed by a rope golem 13:23 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (disenchanters), on T:3575 (0:32:26) 13:23 *commit to Castle, I should say 13:24 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 13:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 13:24 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:25 <@fredriq> !tell K2 do you think it would be a bad idea to allow players to define a custom tileset for NH4+friends as a separate config? which is run through NH4's tileset compiler automatically when saved, and stored in the appropriate place so it can be read by the game as a tileset 13:25 Will do, @fredriq! 13:28 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Neu), 3872 points, T:4014, killed by an orc shaman 13:29 <@fredriq> is it just me or does xnh have like 20% of the config options vanilla does 13:30 <@fredriq> also I asked to not do a tutorial 13:30 <@fredriq> why am I still getting tips on farlook etc 13:31 Hold on a sec 13:32 <@fredriq> also why is the game ignoring my runmode setting 13:32 <@fredriq> my char is walking 4 tiles per second 13:33 OPTIONS=!tips 13:33 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:33 <@fredriq> ok 6 tiles 13:42 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #hardfought 13:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4193 13:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:4263 13:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Hum Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:9281 13:51 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) destroyed masterofpi's ghost, the former Bandit, on T:4560 13:52 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) used a helm to turn chaotic, on T:869 13:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) wished for "magic marker", got "a magic marker", on T:36133 13:52 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Aphrodite, on T:25951 (1:49:40) 13:54 <@fredriq> there, I added support for secondary branch colors. Currently only used for wiztower, but it's used to make it magenta similar to most other variants that have colored branches 13:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 408 points, T:1747, killed by a dwarf 13:56 <@fredriq> the right wall edges do bother me a bit though, but w/e, seems a bit silly to re-wallify that area 13:56 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/1127659439143530668/image.png 13:56 now it looks like dnethack sort of https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389212978030968832/1127659594685096017/image.png 13:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] killer (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed spellbook of finger of death", got "a dark brown spellbook", on T:36202 13:57 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:00 <@fredriq> also today I learned that the NH4 theming engine does, in fact, support unlit walls a la DynaHack/etc 14:00 <@fredriq> it just... doesn't make any use of it whatsoever 14:00 as a player I wouldn't normally expect whether a wall is lit or not to be relevant 14:00 ais523: Message from @fredriq at 2023-07-09 03:52 EDT: https://nhqdb.alt.org/?4206 turn off antialiased fonts if you can. This is a really obnoxious bug in some linux terminals, iirc gnome-terminal is one of them that you can't work-around. I ended up compiling a patched Konsole some years ago that didn't try to "prettify" the shaded characters 14:01 @fredriq: I guessed that it was the terminal trying to prettify them, didn't realise it was attached to anti-aliasing though 14:01 <@fredriq> (I'm talking of the thing where in DynaHack and GruntHack, and possibly otoher variants, walls become dark if out of view/unlit) 14:02 I think there are two philosophies when it comes to lightedness/view coloring 14:02 one is the philosophy of "let's show what the character can see right now" which tends to be prettier but less informative 14:02 and the other is "let's show what the character remembers" which I prefer because it gives more useful information 14:02 NH4 takes the latter approach; vanilla takes the former, inherited from UnNetHack I think 14:03 it would be plausible to do both, but probably not if you have only 16 colors 14:03 <@fredriq> ais523: hmm you think so? because I think the Dyna/Grunt approach is both prettier and more informative wrt walls 14:04 <@fredriq> because it tells you if you can see what is inside a wall or not 14:04 <@fredriq> (hence more info) 14:04 it is, in a way – but lightedness of a wall doesn't matter, all that matters is current visibility, and current visibility rarely tells you much 14:04 it does give some information (e.g. is there a boulder between me and this wall) but it's normally possible to work it out from information already visible on screen 14:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 7543 points, T:5496, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted ettin mummy, while moving through the air 14:04 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu), 446 points, T:830, killed by an arrow 14:05 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:6383 14:05 <@fredriq> I'd printscreen an example of it in action, but my connection speed is abysmal atm 14:05 the difference is that most of the information you care about for floor tiles (e.g. is it permalit? is it trapped?) isn't useful for walls 14:05 <@fredriq> might as well be on dialup lol 14:05 so the most informative thing you can show for walls is something that's about the third priority when it comes to floor tiles 14:05 <@fredriq> darkening walls is a clear sign that you wouldn't be able to see monsters in it 14:06 <@fredriq> it's not exactly something that comes up often, but it is most certainly more info, not less 14:06 I think the correct approach is to show all three pieces of information for both floors and walls (is it in view? have I stepped there? is it lit?), but that starts to run into problems with representation in the UI 14:06 it's easy if you have a truecolor terminal, you can just grey the background slightly for tiles that aren't currently in view 14:06 ais523: inherited from sporkhack actually. unnethack did add the dynamic lighting but as sporkhack only differentiates between dark or lit root, that's the only thing that changes if a square isn't seen anymore. 14:06 <@fredriq> hm I wonder why NH4 never added custom coloration for Juiblex' level 14:07 <@fredriq> L's Colored Walls, which I assume the NH4 colors were mostly based on, does 14:07 NH4 rewrote the custom coloration from scratch, IIRC 14:07 AceHack may have pulled in a patch for that 14:07 <@fredriq> Yeah, it is nothing like the colored walls code-wise 14:07 <@fredriq> but I meant, I suspect the colors themselves 14:07 (AceHack also has an option to color rooms randomly in the main dungeon, which is off by default) 14:07 <@fredriq> were inspired from it 14:07 you also see that with doorways without doors that are always lit and dungeon features or items 14:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Bar Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased bag of holding", got "a greased bag", on T:28330 14:08 bhaak: the dynamic-darkroom approach gives me less information because I can't tell whether my character remembers whether an out-of-view square is lit or not 14:08 <@fredriq> (L's Colored Walls, for what it does, is like 20 lines of code. Very significant payout for those few lines IMO) 14:08 I don't remember how sporkhack improved on the original darkroom patch but I think it did 14:08 when it was introduced, I thought it was a step backwards 14:08 Cool, got protection from god 14:09 Off to Soko 14:09 <@fredriq> iirc darkroom the vanilla patch makes it impossible to distinct between "mapped but unvisited" and "mapped and visited" 14:09 <@fredriq> I remember someone complaining about this 14:09 it is sometimes relevant whether an out-of-view square is lit or not (this determines how careful you will need to be when entering the room) 14:09 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:28517 (2:06:13) 14:09 <@fredriq> NH4 "solves" this by virtue of coloring stepped tiles 14:09 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 10 wooden darts on an altar, on T:6611 14:09 coloring stepped tiles is IMO a huge improvement 14:10 ais523: before there was the risk that a monster or an item was outside of your visible area. 14:10 making travel slightly prefer them might be even better 14:10 what counts as "stepped"? 14:10 the character has been on that tile while not blind 14:10 <@fredriq> I don't really care for it personally, beyond the fact that it allows me to make a distinction between unvisited and visited location 14:10 <@fredriq> when using magic mapping 14:10 I don't think I make an allowance for levitation 14:10 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed her quest without incident, on T:28749 (2:07:28) 14:10 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) received a boon from her quest leader for good behavior, on T:28749 (2:07:28) 14:11 @fredriq: one big difference is in corridors, it differentiates a tile that you've been next to and a tile you've seen the neighbours of 14:11 in vanilla it is sometimes possible to miss a side branch from a corridor because you never stepped on the tile that would let you see it 14:12 <@fredriq> this is usually not a problem 14:12 <@fredriq> until vanilla implemented corridor gehennom floors 14:12 <@fredriq> horrible feature imo 14:12 <@fredriq> as if regular mazes weren't bad enough 14:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Brd Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1267 14:13 the corridor floors are just worse than the walled mazes in almost every case – the only advantage I've seen from them is that it makes the "insect made out of walls" more visible 14:13 but, like, solid rock and wall are effectively identical from a gameplay point of view, as is unlit corridor and unlit room 14:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Brd Hum Fem Neu), 792 points, T:1390, killed by a gnomish wizard 14:13 <@fredriq> I have tentative plans to rework Gehennom into a much shorter branch: votd, wiztower (vlad is somewhere here), nexus/VS, sanctum 14:14 I have actually considered just eliminating corridor and rock from NetHack altogether, in favour of room tiles and dynamic wallification – this would be a big change for vanilla but might be interesting for NH4 14:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of charging", got "a scroll labeled VENZAR BORGAVVE", on T:463 14:14 @fredriq: well I actually enjoy 3.4.3 Gehennom but think I'm in a minority 14:14 well, I'm almost positive I'm in a minority on that 14:14 but this makes it hard to review suggestions 14:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed +3 gray dragon scale mail", got "a gray dragon scale mail", on T:464 14:14 <@fredriq> "nexus" -> have 3 portals leading to random demon lords. You must defeat the lord once you enter it, or forfeit the chance forever. After getting the Amulet, surviving demon lords pester you with debuffs for the rest of the game (not just within Gehennom) 14:14 I do think it would benefit from having more item requirements 14:15 fwiw, the design space of what DCSS calls "portal vaults" seems relevant to NetHack – areas that you can reach once, but can't return to upon leaving 14:15 although, some steps would need to be taken to prevent players leaving critical items there 14:16 <@fredriq> "random demon lords" incorporates what I think is easily one of the best ideas in dNetHack by far, which is what makes dNetHack gehennom so much more interesting IMO (the fact that each Gehennom run is unique) 14:16 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1365 points, T:1658, killed by a rabid rat 14:16 even in 3.4.3, each level has a different maze, and this does actually affect the way they play 14:16 <@fredriq> although dNH has a more "traditional" Gehennom branch, just with far more interesting filler 14:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] nabru (Wiz Hlf Fem Cha), 572 points, T:456, killed by an arrow trap 14:17 I do suspect Gehennom is probably too linear, although it's hard to see how you'd make the asc run work otherwise 14:17 <@fredriq> @ais523 In 3.4.3, vanilla Gehennom was endless mazes. It made it incredibly monotonous and boring IMO. 3.6-3.7 spices it up by more unique maze designs, but they are still just.. mazes 14:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] nabru (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 14 points, T:267, killed by a jackal 14:18 @fredriq: I find the maze levels actually quite interesting as long as you're digging down the walls rather than trying to route around them 14:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "blessed fixed +2 grayswandir", got "a silver saber named Grayswandir", on T:472 14:18 like, the thin-wall thin-floor levels 14:19 <@fredriq> FIQHack Gehennom is mostly unchanged from 3.4.3, but incorporates dungeon features in the mazes originating from xNetHack. It makes the mazes much more open-ended, which I think is a major improvement. But I'm still not a huge fan of it 14:19 <@fredriq> IMO it's "less bad", but not good 14:19 I do think embedding things in the mazes could be helpful 14:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased bag of holding", got "a greased bag", on T:476 14:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 gauntlets of power", got "a pair of fencing gloves", on T:477 14:20 the Gehennom changes in latest vanila have been interesting from a "does this help?" point of view, some make it better, some make it worse 14:20 e.g. lava mazes are a lot of fun without levitation because they require a different resource to simplify (wands of cold, which are much rarer than wands of digging and not reusable like pickaxes) 14:20 <@fredriq> dNetHack gehennom, if I remember things right (haven't played it in years), looks something like this: Valley, Endless Staircase (circular maze levels), Wiztower, Demon1, Fakewiz, Demon2, Fakewiz, Demon3, Fakewiz, Asmodeus, VS, Sanctum 14:20 but, levitation trivialises them because now you can just ignore the lava 14:21 <@fredriq> "Demon1-3" are each individual pools of demon lords, of which dNH has a lot of 14:21 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Fem Cha) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:13464 (3:24:03) 14:21 fwiw I find the demon lairs one of the worst parts of Gehennom in vanilla 14:21 <@fredriq> Which means that unless you play dnh a ton, basically every run will have a unique lair 14:21 they're often just tedious rather than interesting 14:21 current dnh has loot boxes with the demons 14:22 which actually can have some really good stuff that leads to lategame kit changes 14:22 <@Loggers_VIII> make the demons in the lairs funny and the lairs don’t really matter 14:22 <@fredriq> ais523: Personally I mostly don't mind the vanilla demon lairs, except for Asmodeus, because of its horrible pathing design 14:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 shield of reflection", got "a polished silver shield", on T:545 14:22 that one is bad, the swamp is also just annoying 14:22 like, the game already has multiple different tests to see whether you can cross water 14:23 and you can do it without but it takes ages and is typo-prone (although less so in 3.7) 14:23 <@fredriq> Demo: "loot boxes with the demons"? 14:23 <@fredriq> ais523: Your issues with the lairs sound more in terms of execution rather than the concept of lairs themselves 14:24 yes, the concept is fine 14:24 <@fredriq> And well, yeah, dnh has a ton of them 14:24 <@Loggers_VIII> Asmodeus’ got changed a bit in 3.7 iirc 14:24 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:4265 14:24 <@Loggers_VIII> Added some lava pools I think 14:24 <@fredriq> (and I don't think it keeps a single one of vanilla's lairs?) 14:24 doesn't having a lot of them increase the chance that many of them are executed badly? it's hard to generate good levels in quantity 14:25 <@fredriq> ais523: I haven't played dNH in years but personally I didn't really remember disliking the lairs 14:25 <@Loggers_VIII> imo the only thing a lair needs to do in terms of functionality is not obstruct the enjoyment of the ascension run with needlessly tedious gameplay 14:25 <@fredriq> ^ 14:25 <@Loggers_VIII> hence why Asmodeus’ level is universally hated 14:25 fwiw, the whole playtesting-feedback thing from Demo convinced me that dNetHack probably wasn't for me 14:25 <@fredriq> as long as the lair is fine to traverse on ammyrun, it has done the bare minimum to exceed vanilla lair quality 14:26 <@fredriq> which is not very difficult 14:26 fredriq, he means that demon lord lairs come with unique loot that typically make it worth your while 14:26 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:1853 (0:17:34) 14:26 I think 14:26 <@fredriq> ais523: My "nexus" idea would as a side effect not have you traverse through the demon lairs at all on ammyrun 😛 14:27 <@fredriq> but that wasn't really intentional on my side lol 14:27 [hdf-au] [nh370] UmberConductor (Ran Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:36911 14:27 indeed 14:27 just kill the demon lords and teleport 14:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Brd Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2102 14:27 <@Loggers_VIII> oh yeahhhh the notele isn’t permanent in 3.7 14:27 paxed: you say "just teleport" as though the majority of games will have found teleport control, which isn't necessarily the case in shorter games 14:27 <@Loggers_VIII> idk I think pretty much every game can have telecontrol 14:28 [hdf-eu] [xnh] breadmaster (Sam Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed fixed 2 boots of speed", got "a pair of hiking boots", on T:21256 14:28 it's also somewhat wasteful of resources – you're either using a C-ration's worth of nutrition to go round, or a teleport source to teleport to the goal 14:28 <@fredriq> ais523: also, I will say that the mystery force makes asmo and juib far worse than they need to be 14:28 i didn't specify tele control 14:28 <@fredriq> I groan each time I need to do juiblex for the 5th time, managing levi etc 14:28 paxed: ah, your idea is to random-teleport and hope to arrive outside the fixed section? 14:28 better than no-tele level 14:29 <@Loggers_VIII> 3.7 also has flying amulet which most people will use so levi being annoying isn’t that much of a concern 14:29 @fredriq: actually this brings home to me what's bad about that level – it is hard to permanently make it less annoying, like it is with the mazes 14:29 <@fredriq> "most people" you say 14:29 <@fredriq> I prefer LS myself 14:29 <@Loggers_VIII> and even if you don’t use it all the time you won’t sacrifice much to take off whichever one you do use 14:29 most people will use life saving 14:29 <@Loggers_VIII> Yeah, but you’re not in danger going through juiblex’s level a million times 14:29 <@Loggers_VIII> If you’re ready for the astral plane you can take off the damn life saving for five minutes in gehennom 14:30 it doesn't actually matter what amulet is theoretically best in terms of powering up the character – for many characters there is only one realistic threat left lategame, which is the player making a thinko or typo 14:30 <@fredriq> I suppose I could pickup flying and MB for juib and Water respectively 14:30 <@fredriq> it's not like those areas are hard 14:30 and life saving is one of the few things that can protect you from yourself as opposed to from monsters 14:30 <@fredriq> yes, the most common latergame death in NetHack is doing something dumb 14:30 <@fredriq> LS helps against that 14:30 <@Loggers_VIII> if you die in juiblex’s swamp on the asc run you deserve it 14:31 [hdf-eu] [hackm] mobileuser (Sam Dwa Fem Law) killed Grund, on T:23182 (10:43:45) 14:31 fwiw the amulet of flying may have undesirable balance effects because it's too swappable 14:31 so you aren't really giving up a slot to use it 14:31 the ring of levitation has similar issues, you can just put it on to levitate and take it back off again to stop levitating 14:31 <@Loggers_VIII> can you eat flying for intrinsic flying 14:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Brd Hum Fem Neu) was given Tensa Zangetsu, on T:2561 14:32 <@fredriq> whenever I play a variant with vampires (other than dnh that has cooler stuff); I tend to pick vampire for flying alone 14:32 <@fredriq> it removes a lot of headaches later on 14:32 constant flying is important in 3.7 because knockback exists 14:32 (apparently at least one other dev thinks that it has a serious drawback in that it might get cursed – I've never known this to be a problem, nor known a character on the asc run to be incapable of uncursing things, and random curse effects are rare prior to the asc run) 14:32 can knockback go more than one tile? 14:32 <@Loggers_VIII> Ais523 I’ve lost a character at the castle to cursed levi ring 14:33 It absolutely can ais523 14:33 <@fredriq> yeah, cursed levi stops being a problem before you even get the castle wand 14:33 <@fredriq> and it is completely irrelevant past that 14:33 @Loggers_VIII: did it *become* cursed after you started wearing it? or did you put on an unBCUed levi ring? 14:33 Also p. sure you can't 14:33 eat the amulet I mean 14:33 there are liches at the castle, so it becoming cursed seems vaguely plausible, at least 14:33 <@Loggers_VIII> I wished for a lev ring and it was cursed because I didn’t specify buc 14:33 <@fredriq> even before then, I've purposefully put on cursed levi in the past to uncurse it through prayer 14:34 could you pray? 14:34 <@fredriq> there are so many ways to deal with cursed levi 14:34 prayer doesn't work in Gehennom 14:34 <@Loggers_VIII> Had pretty much no resources that run and my god was angry so I couldn’t uncurse it. Niche scenario but it still happens 14:34 -!- Umbire has quit [Killed (cadmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 14:34 I'm the sort of person who'd generally try to fix god anger before doing the Castle 14:34 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 14:34 <@Loggers_VIII> I know there’s tons of ways to deal with it and trust me when I say I looked through all of them :p 14:35 <@fredriq> ais523: vanilla should port my Mitre change 😛 14:35 <@Loggers_VIII> ais523 yes that is normal behavior 14:35 <@fredriq> in fiqhack, Mitre of Holiness has an antennae on it to improve reception to your god 14:35 <@Loggers_VIII> I am unfortunately not normal 14:35 @fredriq: but that might end up violating at least one dev's idea of what the lore is 14:35 <@fredriq> meaning you can pray to your god even within Gehennom 14:35 and lead to a huge argument 14:35 <@Loggers_VIII> pff NetHack doesn’t have lore 14:35 I try not to get god anger in the first place 14:36 <@Loggers_VIII> Noisytoot yeah well I try not to die and it still happens on occasion 14:36 my viewpoint is, if things are going wrong enough that you need to pray often enough that god anger happens 14:36 fixing it should be a priority because you will probably need to pray more in the immediate future 14:36 <@fredriq> ais523: I mean, "lore-wise" I don't imagine a literal antenna on it, even if I like to picture it that way because it is silly 14:36 and if things are going well it'll never happen to start with 14:36 <@Loggers_VIII> no yeah I see the logic 14:36 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:5374 14:36 one nice thing about doing variants is that you can imagine the lore for yourself 14:36 <@Loggers_VIII> but getting rid of god anger, to put it in simple turns, is absolute horseshit 14:37 usually I get got anger from accidentally killing a pet 14:37 <@Loggers_VIII> *terms fuck 14:37 <@fredriq> getting rid of god anger is needlessly convulted at the point where god anger is a serious issue 14:37 <@fredriq> it becomes trivial later 14:37 it is much harder for chaotics, for reasons I don't fully understand 14:37 <@fredriq> I feel like it should be the other way around 14:37 for lawfuls and neutrals it isn't too bad, just grindy 14:37 <@Loggers_VIII> Getting rid of god anger early game is just not possible without an insane amount of luck 14:37 <@fredriq> @Loggers_VIII yeah 14:38 <@fredriq> that's what I meant with what I said 14:38 -!- Umbire has quit [Killed (molybdenum.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 14:38 <@fredriq> if you can't generate high-level monsters, you're just SOL 14:38 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 14:38 <@Loggers_VIII> monsters simply do not generate at a level high enough to appease my god :c 14:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:2580 14:38 <@fredriq> really obnoxious 14:38 <@fredriq> fiqhack fixes it due to how it changes sacrifice, but I suspect it might be too easy in fh instead 14:38 -!- Umbire has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38 <@Loggers_VIII> What does fh do 14:38 <@fredriq> when fiqhack replaced create monster with summoning 14:39 <@fredriq> and made all summons temporary and transient, not leaving corpses 14:39 minotaurs look like the most common monster that mollifies a chaotic god? and they appear pre-castle, but getting them to an altar could be very hard 14:39 <@fredriq> I had to buff sacrifice to compensate, because I didn't want to nerf it 14:39 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 14:39 <@fredriq> so in fiqhack, you can sacrifice gold and permafood 14:39 <@Loggers_VIII> who sees Minotaurs pre castle 14:39 <@fredriq> this works both for piety raising for crowning purposes, and for fixing anger 14:39 they are very likely to generate on the levels between castle and Medusa 14:39 <@Loggers_VIII> oh that’s interesting 14:40 admittedly, some games there might not be any levels in between 14:40 <@fredriq> I thought there was always at least one filler level 14:40 <@Loggers_VIII> no sometimes there’s none 14:40 <@fredriq> ok 14:40 getting to an altar from there is nontrivial unless you have a controlled level teleport source, though (and minotaur corpses are pretty heavy) 14:40 IMO there *should* always be at least one level in between 14:40 also there should be a warning when approaching Medusa from beneath (statues around the upstairs, etc.) 14:40 <@Loggers_VIII> imo there should never be any lol 14:40 <@fredriq> earlier today I pondered how commonly players have sources of level teleportation 14:41 to be fair on players (especially unspoiled players) who fall past Medusa due to, e.g., trapdoor or levport trap 14:41 <@fredriq> and whether or not I could get away with giving a certain demon a Banishment ability that drops you to Gehennom 14:41 <@Loggers_VIII> btw how does the demonbane “banish demons to Gehennom” mechanic work in vanilla? 14:41 it is fairly common for players to have a cursed scroll of teleportation – it's the most common scroll and can generate cursed 14:41 <@fredriq> (an idea I was pondering since yesterday was adding a special ability to each role + each demon kind + possibly other monsters) 14:41 <@Loggers_VIII> on the invoke 14:41 <@fredriq> making #monster more useful 14:41 but not everyone will carry it around with them 14:42 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:6394 14:42 <@Loggers_VIII> I always have unholy water and scrolls of tele so it’s not hard to levelport if I need to in an emergency 14:42 <@fredriq> so I was wondering if adding Banishment as an ability of a certain demon would be too mean 14:42 I know that in vanilla 3.4.3, Gehennom always has to be listed second in the dungeon definition, so that monsters can be migrated there reliably, but am not sure what causes the migration 14:42 <@fredriq> since demons rarely appear in the Dungeons 14:42 presumably this is major demons only? or only certain species? 14:42 [hdf-eu] [xnh] breadmaster (Sam Hum Fem Law) was bestowed with Snickersnee by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:21738 14:42 foocubi appear in the Dungeons semi-commonly 14:42 <@Loggers_VIII> what would you give it to, pit fiends? 14:42 <@fredriq> ais523: the idea was that each unique demon had one unique ability 14:42 and are major demons 14:42 <@fredriq> to make them more distinct 14:42 -!- Bleeko has joined #hardfought 14:43 <@fredriq> this could range from encasing you in ice (ice devils) to punishing you, and other fun 14:43 banishment :/ sounds like slex 14:43 <@Loggers_VIII> ur mom sounds like slex 14:43 punishment attacks seem interesting, although becoming unpunished might get tedious quickly 14:43 <@fredriq> the main idea was making demons more distinct because atm like 80% of them have no discerning features beyond name 14:43 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 175 points, T:690, killed by a water demon 14:44 <@Loggers_VIII> I like it 14:44 the boulder-and-pit trick was nerfed, although I'm not necessarily certain that the nerf does anything useful? 14:44 <@Loggers_VIII> 3.7 has proven even small changes make a big impact, like the hezrou stink 14:44 <@fredriq> main concern wrt Punishment specifically is that making it symmetrical sounds like an exercise in pain 14:44 like, it chains you in place for a few tens of turns, but that isn't actually a drawback in vanilla most of the time 14:44 dnethack has a clerical spell that punishes you unless you're piously aligned 14:44 does it also rebalance alignment so that there's any chance you might not be piously aligned? 14:45 <@Loggers_VIII> if you’re not piously aligned and seeing clerical spells you’ve done something wrong so that sounds suitably horrible 14:45 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 31 points, T:218, killed by a newt 14:45 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest9896 14:45 yes, using cursed wages gives you -99 to alignment record and 9 sins (-9 to max alignment) 14:45 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 14:45 !tell K2 Game needs recovering - was in the process of trying to resume a game when my connection dropped for a bout the 50th time this evening during the message catch-up. 14:45 Will do, Umbire! 14:45 <@fredriq> might need to tell him the variant 14:45 <@Loggers_VIII> is using cursed wages that useful 14:46 !tell K2 3/7, screen asks for a new game. 14:46 K2 shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, Umbire. 14:46 And now to sulk because my cunting internet has ruined my afternoon. 14:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 59 points, T:260, killed by a magical explosion 14:46 <@Loggers_VIII> :( 14:46 I was looking over the YANI list 14:46 <@Loggers_VIII> Oh boy ya is 14:46 <@Loggers_VIII> *yanks dammit 14:46 <@Loggers_VIII> *YANIS 14:46 the suggestion of "alignment = positive alignment divided by negative alignment" (rather than minus, as in vanilla) was a really interesting one 14:46 <@Loggers_VIII> fucking autocorrect 14:47 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Chris/dNethack/dNethack_Items#Hellish_Items 14:47 (you would need to start both numbers at positive values rather than zero) 14:47 <@Umbyre (he/him)> Swear I'm just gonna start skinning AT&T execs or something. 14:47 some of them are useful 14:47 [hdf-eu] [xnh] breadmaster (Sam Hum Fem Law) was bestowed with Trollsbane by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:21812 14:48 -!- Guest9896 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:48 <@Loggers_VIII> down with at&t 14:48 <@fredriq> https://nethack-yanis.github.io/yanis/3198.html is my gehennom idea 14:49 <@Loggers_VIII> I liked xnh’s implementation of that a lot but there’s too many branches 14:49 <@fredriq> ais523: #4438 sounds OP 14:49 @fredriq: I think that might be fairer on unspoiled players if you get to kill them even during the asc run to end the effects (but killing them earlier would be preferable so that you aren't dealing with one's effects while trying to kill another) 14:50 @fredriq: #4438 is strictly worse than a "oLS 14:50 -!- Sgeo has joined #hardfought 14:50 https://nethack-yanis.github.io/yanis/4438.html 14:50 <@fredriq> ais523: I would give a warning if the player tries to leave, shouldn't that be enough? 14:50 [hdf-us] [un] bismatum (Sam Hum Mal Law) had Fire Brand bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:95629 (2 days, 6:13:58) 14:50 what if they never enter? 14:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Brd Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:5493 14:50 <@fredriq> they are forced to 14:50 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:50 you would at least need to seriously change covetous behaviour 14:50 <@fredriq> or the VS doesn't work (an engraving or similar should clue them in) 14:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Brd Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased bag of holding", on T:5504 14:51 would an amulet of full healing be reusable? 14:51 <@fredriq> ais523: covetous behaviour was overhauled semi-recently in FIQHack 14:51 Noisytoot: it was intended to only work once 14:51 although the description doesn't actually say that 14:51 in vanilla, killing covetous monsters almost always involves changing level 14:51 <@fredriq> it is a free action, it will warp the monster as close to the object they covet as possible, it has a 1-turn cooldown (to avoid enexto RNG abuse) 14:51 to steal the stairs from them 14:52 <@fredriq> also players can use it too 14:52 <@fredriq> (by being an arch-lich) 14:52 <@fredriq> master lich too IIRC, not 100% sure if they covet the book 14:53 NH4 implemented covetous target sensing for players, but not the warping 14:53 they do in vanilla 14:53 so you can always see the book of the dead if you're polymorphed into a covetous lich 14:53 <@fredriq> if they do in vanilla, they do in fh 14:53 <@fredriq> it's unchanged 14:53 err, or at least any monster carrying it 14:53 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:4054 (0:44:37) 14:53 not sure if it senses the item itself 14:53 <@fredriq> I don't think it does, in NH4 14:53 <@fredriq> idk if I added it in fiqhack 14:53 it probably should 14:53 <@fredriq> but either way you can covetous-warp with #monster 14:54 <@fredriq> and as per usual covetous behaviour, it doens't care about the level being noteleport 14:54 <@fredriq> idk if this is balanced on Astral or not 14:54 <@Loggers_VIII> sounds op 14:54 <@fredriq> (drop book, telezap book, covetous-warp to new location) 14:54 that's, like, three actions and you don't choose where you go, it probably isn't broken 14:54 <@fredriq> probably not 14:54 <@fredriq> also, polyself allows crazy shenanigans as-is 14:55 liches feel like flavourwise they should be more vulnerable to aligned priest and angel attacks, but they probably actually aren't 14:55 [hdf-us] [xnh] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1309 points, T:851, killed by a dwarf 14:55 dnethack has a spirit that allows you to teleport to doorways on astral (enki) 14:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 442 points, T:1211, killed by a small mimic 14:55 <@fredriq> as part of #monster additions, I would also make player monsters able to #monster 14:55 in vanilla 3.4.3 you can teleport the amulet of yendor out of the wizard's tower, to skip part of the asc run – I think they may have been changed since, though 14:56 <@fredriq> which would in fact make liches vulnerable to Knight player monsters 14:56 * that may have been changed 14:56 <@fredriq> because they can #turn 14:56 dnethack allows player monster knights and priests to turn undead 14:56 YANI: monster aligned priests should have a turning attack that they can use against undead 14:56 this can come up even in vanilla 14:56 vanilla doesn't have grudges 14:57 <@fredriq> allowing aligned/high priests, and player monsters, to #pray is on todo 14:57 <@Loggers_VIII> uh yeah it does does it not? 14:57 the player can be polymorphed into undead 14:57 <@Loggers_VIII> liches attack monsters they can turn into zombies 14:57 <@fredriq> but it entails implementing Invulnerable on monsters 14:57 <@Umbyre (he/him)> zombies also grudge other monsters they can make into more zombies 14:57 invulnerable on monsters isn't too hard to implement, just time-consuming 14:57 I did that already for AceHack multiplayer 14:58 to stop a player killing the placeholder monster that represents the other player, even indirectly 14:58 <@fredriq> a while back I added mlosehp, but I make almost no use of it 14:58 <@fredriq> I'd probably, once I add monster #pray, make every monster HP reduction go through it 14:59 the flavour could start getting weird when it comes to hostile coaligned monsters 14:59 How does acehack multiplayer work? 14:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:5534 14:59 Noisytoot: basically when you're on the same level as someone else, you're in the same turn order and alternate turns, have to wait for the other player to move 14:59 <@fredriq> fiqhack has code for handling monster pets 15:00 <@fredriq> but it's not thoroughly tested 15:00 this gets annoying so in practice, most players split up almost immediately and try to avoid ever being on the same level as each otehr 15:00 <@fredriq> ais523: I think a simple AI assistance could make it far less annoying 15:00 how do you ascend? 15:00 <@fredriq> a la PMD following 15:00 same way as in vanilla – there's some special case to ensure both players can get an Amulet for the planes, I think it might just drop a duplicate on the D:1 upstairs as you leave the dungeon 15:01 <@fredriq> basically, at all times, players can defer their play to simple AI strategies on how to pathfind 15:01 in early versions, the server admin would create a second Amulet using a debugger 15:01 <@fredriq> and take control at any point if something comes up 15:01 <@fredriq> I suspect it would make multiplayer less annoying 15:01 that's basically travel 15:01 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:8526 15:01 and it does make multiplayer less annoying to some extent 15:01 the problem is that, in NetHack, some turns are much more timeconsuming that others 15:01 so, e.g., if you're bump-attack fighting a weak monster and the other player is trying to rearrange their stash… 15:02 <@fredriq> with "simple AI strategies"; I imagine something akin to dcss autoexplore + autofight 15:02 the fix I have been considering for that is to make each part of the level run at the speed of the nearest player, and not require the players to alternate inputs, they can each play at their own pace 15:02 <@fredriq> basically, mindless tasks 15:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:32816 15:02 <@fredriq> that don't really need player intervention 15:02 <@fredriq> leaving proper player control to actually interesting situations 15:03 autofight needs a bit of babysitting to not get you into danger, IIRC 15:03 even in NH4, using autoexplore early on is a very good way to starve to death 15:03 <@fredriq> yes, I don't mean for the AI to be smarter than a player 15:03 I have not yet got out of the early game with heavy autoexplore usage 15:03 <@fredriq> but to take care of monotonous stuff 15:03 this makes me think that implementing it may have been a mistake, even though it's popular 15:04 <@fredriq> I don't think I've ever starved to death due to autoexplore 15:04 <@fredriq> and I play wiz, they don't start with food 15:04 <@fredriq> but that being said, NH4 autoexplore is really, really dumb 15:04 I haven't used NH4 autoexplore, except for a few times to test what it does 15:04 <@fredriq> and has some serious problems 15:04 <@fredriq> for example, it's pretty much useless if there's dwarves on the level 15:05 but I have used a lot of travel and various multi-step movements, including the one that can follow turning corridors 15:05 <@fredriq> because autoexplore -- unlike players -- will know about new wall openings 15:05 I don't starve to death when using shift-move heavily 15:05 and travel doesn't actually consume excess food when used intelligently 15:05 <@fredriq> so it will go explore some area, then a dwarf digs 1 tile in some random explored wall, causing autoexplore to promptly go all the way back and check it out 15:05 <@fredriq> rinse and repeat 15:05 orc wiz start with food I think 15:06 <@fredriq> I basically always play gnomish wizard 15:06 this implies that autoexplore is acting on information the character doesn't know, which I don't think it shold? 15:06 <@fredriq> ais523: yeah I mentioned that 😛 15:06 <@fredriq> it knows stuff it shouldn't 15:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1312 points, T:1447, killed by a thrown potion, while praying 15:08 doesn't travel also know information that the character doesn't know? 15:09 it does. a lot of the places use levl[][].typ 15:09 it's just a bit harder to exploit than in *some* games where you can basically use unit pathing to remote sense everything on the map 15:09 instead should use the .glyph but that's tricky 15:10 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Mal Law) destroyed bouquet's ghost, the former Joshu, on T:36444 (3:06:43) 15:10 <@fredriq> b_jonas: travel is never harder to exploit than autoexplore for finding unexplored locations 15:11 <@fredriq> because travel has x 15:11 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by engraving "xx", on T:4250 15:11 <@fredriq> incidentally I used to have a macro for NH3.6 that was basically just "_x." 15:11 where does x go? 15:11 <@fredriq> unexplored location 15:11 <@fredriq> it's like autoexplore but without what makes autoexplore actually useful 15:11 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:4487 15:12 <@fredriq> I think it was added as a compromise between "no autoexplore" and accessibility 15:12 rld: I'm saying that travel is harder to exploit than in some non-nethack strategy games where units path themselves knowing all the map 15:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "2 holy charging", got "2 scrolls labeled PRATYAVAYAH", on T:4600 15:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy greased bag of holding", got "a greased bag", on T:4600 15:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy +2 gray dragon scale mail", got "a gray dragon scale mail", on T:4602 15:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:9816 15:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy +2 long sword", got "a long sword", on T:4611 15:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy +2 shield of reflection", got "a polished silver shield", on T:4612 15:14 <@fredriq> hmm 15:14 <@fredriq> since you can always discern spell level in fiqhack from spellbook weight 15:14 <@fredriq> I should make non-wiz able to get the "this book is hard" thingy 15:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy amulet of flying", got "a triangular amulet", on T:4822 15:15 hackem should do that too 15:15 and all variants for identified spellbooks 15:15 [hdf-us] [xnh] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 883 points, T:768, killed by a dwarf 15:15 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2520 15:16 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) signified by divine providence, was chosen to carry Excalibur, on T:4967 15:16 <@fredriq> !tell K2 fixed an InterHack violation: non-wiz can now get the "this book is difficult to read" prompt 15:16 No worries, @fredriq, I've got this! 15:18 <@Umbyre (he/him)> Jonas, rld is the relay boy 15:18 <@Umbyre (he/him)> bot* 15:18 <@Umbyre (he/him)> just use the name of whoever you're responding too 15:19 <@fredriq> I used InterHack during devnill 15:19 <@fredriq> *devnull 15:19 <@fredriq> because vanilla 3.4.3 sucks 15:19 <@fredriq> in terms of UI convenience 15:19 <@fredriq> never used it since 15:19 <@fredriq> I think I tried it once on 3.6.0 for fun to see how compatible it'd be 15:20 <@fredriq> It worked to an acceptable degree, but was too broken to be useful 15:20 <@fredriq> I considered using it during the 3.6.0 period 15:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:5831 15:20 <@fredriq> which, like vanilla 3.4.3, basically didn't have much of anything in terms of QoL stuff 15:20 does it add paranoid liquids? 15:20 <@fredriq> I don't remember 15:21 <@fredriq> the interhack feature I used the most, other than the stuff that replicated things like statuscolors etc, was the corpse intrinsic tracker 15:22 <@fredriq> it was very nice 15:22 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 0 points, T:78, killed by the wrath of Thoth 15:24 -!- el has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24 !tell Umbire game recovered 15:24 K2: Messages from @fredriq and Umbire have been forwarded to you privately. 15:24 Umbire shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, K2. 15:25 @fredriq what is an interhack violation? 15:25 <@fredriq> a violation of the InterHack principe 15:25 dunno what that is 15:25 <@fredriq> namely; if an UI enhancer can display it / prevent it / show it / etc, it should be available in-game 15:26 <@fredriq> this is why, for example, NH4+friends give you old dcorpse warnings 15:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:6849 15:26 are you still maiing updates to fiqhack or can i update it now? 15:26 *making 15:26 -!- el has joined #hardfought 15:26 <@fredriq> you can update it whenever 🙂 15:26 k 15:26 <@fredriq> but I think I'm done for today 15:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 9057 points, T:9688, quit 15:28 <@fredriq> these changes have been done since last server update: added option to disable "[N turns]" display, secondary branch colors (only wiztower uses it atm, it makes wiztower brightmagenta), non-wiz gets "This book is difficult to read" 15:28 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 2912 points, T:3189, killed by a horse 15:29 FIQhack updated (all servers) 15:29 <@fredriq> nethackwiki down? 15:29 <@fredriq> nah, just me 15:31 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:32 <@fredriq> I've now done more changes than I have done in 2022-2023 lol 15:32 :) 15:32 <@fredriq> 2019 was also a slow year 15:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 75475 points, T:8087, quit 15:33 <@fredriq> 2020-2021 had some more changes, 2018 and prior had a ton of stuff 15:36 rld: I think the NH4 corpse warning is more powerful than just that, it warns you of old corpses even when you don't know when the monster died or that it was undead 15:36 but in general, yes, NH4 does try to folliw that principle and it makes the interface much better 15:37 that's why I played NH4 instead of vanilla 3.4.3 15:38 https://nethackwiki.com/ is up 15:39 following the interhack principle blindly can lead to a rabbithole of consequences – but that isn't necessarily a bad thing 15:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] Goran (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 1799 points, T:2662, killed by a lizard 15:39 just, you can end up with something you didn't expect 15:39 <@Umbyre (he/him)> Hi K2 15:39 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Brd Hum Fem Neu), 115152 points, T:9526, killed by a marilith 15:40 <@Umbyre (he/him)> Thanks for the recovery 15:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:2015 15:40 I didn't know that this was the name of the principle 15:40 it's named after a program called InterHack 15:40 <@Umbyre (he/him)> Probably not touching the game for a while anyway, wi-fi has put me out of the mood and I'm getting sucked into Yu-Gi-Oh! atm anyway 15:40 which wrapped a telnet/ssh connection to unmodified 3.4.3 and added as much information as it could 15:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) was bestowed with Mjollnir by Tyr, on T:3944 15:43 but it was buggy in various interesting ways, primarily because it was heavily regex-based 15:44 <@fredriq> YANI: Level teleporation and branchporting leaves a 5-turn portal behind, allowing monsters and players to follow 15:45 I thought flavor is that only branchporting works with a portal 15:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 5341 points, T:4634, killed by a system shock 15:45 that seems most useful for following your pet 15:45 if it hits a levport trap 15:45 <@fredriq> the main idea is to allow players to follow monsters ecaping through levelporting/branchporting 15:45 would the portal be two-way? because that would make the Eye even more OP 15:46 <@fredriq> ais523: fiqhack has scrolls of recall for this specific purpose 15:46 ah right, for chasing Rodney/Vlad if they levport holding an invocation item 15:46 <@fredriq> but it doesn't help much against hostiles 15:46 scrolls of recall require you to have and have identified the scroll, though, whereas chasing a monster through a portal doesn't require resources, just bravery 15:46 <@fredriq> ("this specific purpose" as in "pets that wander into levelporters") 15:47 <@fredriq> ais523: the portal would also allow making the Dark One feasible escape using the Eye without making it a game of hide and seek 😛 15:47 hmm, how many people branchport out of the Quest after collecting the Eye, rather than returning it normally? 15:48 <@fredriq> I always do that 15:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 64 points, T:370, killed by a jackal 15:48 <@fredriq> I basically always branchport back to the Dungeons of Doom 15:48 <@fredriq> it also puts me right where i left off before I ventured onto the Quest 15:48 it's something I didn't think about until now 15:48 <@fredriq> IMO the game ought to have more branchport options 15:48 <@fredriq> it's not a particularly powerful ability balance-wise 15:48 I have been known to use the Orb of Fate to speed up leaving the Quest 15:48 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu), 7535 points, T:6682, zombified by a dwarf zombie, while praying 15:48 <@fredriq> but it is really convenient 15:49 it is a very good escape item 15:49 <@fredriq> it is roughly equal to a levelport 15:49 <@fredriq> escape item-wise 15:49 yes 15:49 <@fredriq> which isn't bad 15:49 <@fredriq> but branchport is far more convenient 15:49 more similar to a controlled levelport escape-item-wise, though 15:49 which is stronger 15:49 <@fredriq> I would argue that balance-wise, controlled levelport is stronger 15:49 because you can aim for a level you know is safe, like bottom of Sokoban or bottom of Vlad's 15:49 <@fredriq> since you can port to unvisited locations 15:49 <@fredriq> can't do that with a branchport 15:50 controlled levport is stronger but not as an escape item, it's about equal as an escape item 15:50 <@fredriq> yeah 15:50 <@fredriq> in fiqhack, I made MKoT give trap immunity and the ability to branchport 15:50 <@fredriq> leaving lawfuls the only alignment with no access to branchport, even through wishing 15:50 <@fredriq> unless they want to do HoOA tricks 15:51 yes, in my valk ascension I mostly used the Eye as a really good escape item late game, so I can escape to my emergency stash at soko top. of course this too worked better because of the monster difficulty bug. 15:51 <@fredriq> but valk already has orb of fate 15:52 <@fredriq> it's equally good as an escape item, no? 15:52 <@fredriq> just less convenient 15:52 it can fail unless you have teleport control 15:52 <@fredriq> in 3.4.3, the best artifact in the game was roughly tied between EotA and PYEC I feel 15:52 <@fredriq> but in 3.6.0+, it is indpsiutably PYEC 15:52 <@fredriq> because eota was nerfed 15:53 and a random levport downwards can be very dangerous if in combat with a follower, whereas a controlled levport to a safe level will remove most other monsters from the fight 15:53 the Orb is heavy, the Wizard can steal it, and doesn't take me to a safe level with an emergency stash 15:53 best artifact in the game is OoF :-P 15:53 half phys damage + half spell damage 15:53 <@fredriq> ais523: Infinite charging is really good 15:53 it is but you don't need it 15:53 <@fredriq> but yeah, I'd definitely say that oof trumps PYEC nowdays 15:53 enough wands generate randomly 15:53 <@fredriq> er, EotA 15:54 <@fredriq> I do still feel that PYEC trumps oof though (and so does eota in 3.4.3) 15:54 <@fredriq> because of slotless MR 15:54 <@fredriq> and eregen 15:54 <@fredriq> (or recharge in PYEC's case) 15:54 oh the PYEC is definitely really good 15:54 <@fredriq> ais523: In my pacifist games I like to get oof+PYEC, but most importantly PYEC 15:54 <@fredriq> so I can do infinite level teleporter detection 15:55 3.4.3 doesn't have enough required extrinsics for slotless MR to be all *that* valuable – you can normally afford to spend a slot on it 15:55 slots are tighter in 3.7 but still maybe not that tight 15:55 <@fredriq> I wonder if anyone has ascended pacifist in 3.6+ 15:55 <@fredriq> I suspect it was made far more difficult 15:55 what specific change do you think makes pacifist harder? (except for Sokoban difficulty direction which makes everything much harder) 15:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2477 points, T:5065, quit 15:56 <@fredriq> sokoban change as already mentioned, speed randomization, orctown, and iirc there was something in particular that I felt screwed over pacifist play but I don't reacall what it was 15:56 <@fredriq> Elbereth nerf also, but the later changes to it made it mostly a non-issue 15:57 I wouldn't expect the 3.6.1 version of speed randomization to matter all that much 15:57 orctown does matter, of course 15:57 wait, what's with Soko? 15:57 <@fredriq> 3.6.0 Elbereth mechanics probably makes pacifist almost unplayable 15:57 <@Loggers_VIII> I’m sure anyone who was skilled enough to do pacifist wouldn’t be impacted too much by any change except orctown, in which case you just restart 15:57 <@fredriq> but it was walked back later 15:57 b_jonas: difficulty increases as you go upwards in Sokoban rather than decreasing 15:57 !who 15:57 K2: [hdf-us] stagnate [nh343] Superfly [nh370] Numenorean [nh370] bismatum [un] Som [dnh] dart [xnh] nabru [xnh] bleeko [ndnh] terrapin [evil] elron [gnoll] :: [hdf-eu] DoktorL [nh370] :: [hdf-au] No current players 15:57 @fredriq: I walked those back for a reason! 15:58 <@fredriq> b_jonas: 3.6+ soko increases in difficulty instead of decreasese as you go up 15:58 I see 15:58 this means that the Sokoban zoo is, in effect, 8 levels deeper in the dungeon from the point of view of monster generation 15:58 <@Loggers_VIII> people get rather up in arms about that change 15:58 <@fredriq> 6 15:58 it is no longer worth doing in the early game 15:58 <@fredriq> I think? 15:58 <@fredriq> pretty sure the first level still decreases 15:58 <@fredriq> maybe I'm mistaken 15:58 I assumed it would increase, maybe not though? 15:58 <@Loggers_VIII> “It is no longer worth doing in the early game” wdym I’ve done it 15:59 would be weird for that one to decrease and the others to increase 15:59 <@fredriq> but yeah I kinda liked that there was 2 both good choices for what branch to do first 15:59 <@Loggers_VIII> maybe not on extremely fragile roles with low damage output 15:59 <@fredriq> in 3.7, the choice is obvious mines 15:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3086 15:59 does Vlad's tower do that too? 15:59 @Loggers_VIII: it will usually kill you unless you do significantly more of the game first and become much stronger 15:59 <@fredriq> Probably, but vlad is so far down that it basically doesn't matter 15:59 <@fredriq> like 10% more difficult instead of almost 2x 15:59 @fredriq: I suspect the correct choice may be Mines to Minetown and 3 levels of Sokoban, then skip both branches for the rest of the game 15:59 yeah 15:59 <@Loggers_VIII> ais523 it’s really not that much harder than mines 15:59 I'm sad that they buffed Vlad by the way 16:00 <@Loggers_VIII> I think people like to overstate it 16:00 <@fredriq> I've tried to do soko first 16:00 @Loggers_VIII: I consider deep mines to also be too dangerous to be worth it early 16:00 <@fredriq> I just die 16:00 <@fredriq> in 3.6+ I mean 16:00 <@Loggers_VIII> do I get to say skill issue to this 16:00 obvious choice is overstating things 16:00 in a test game I tried recently, there was a leocrotta in the Sokoban zoo 16:00 the best choice is to go back and forth 16:00 back and forth is indeed best 16:00 [hdf-us] [hackm] willisllama (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 966 points, T:881, killed by a bat 16:00 <@fredriq> shadowrider38: yes, because encouraging more backtracking is definitely something we should do 16:00 but how far you go before descending deeper into the main dungeon is also interesting 16:01 of course, sometimes you then get bigroom 16:01 <@fredriq> (we shouldn't IMO) 16:01 <@Loggers_VIII> I don’t think shadow commented on rather backtracking was good but just that it’s optimal 16:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 814 points, T:3178, killed by a gnome lord 16:01 @fredriq: this is one of my main complaints/findigs in my playtesting report 16:01 well its not fun to a lot but its the best strategy 16:01 yeah 16:01 I have since discovered that backtracking to heal is also correct 16:01 <@fredriq> this is not a new discovery 16:01 <@fredriq> I do this plenty 16:01 because waiting on a level may make monsters spawn there, so you want to do your waiting on D:1 16:02 i wish there would be simple ways to reduce the amount of travel 16:02 well, I became convinced of it recently when I previously asn' 16:02 * wasn't 16:02 <@fredriq> go back a few levels to heal up 16:02 <@Loggers_VIII> iirc demo thought that strat wasn’t viable too 16:02 should i walk all the way back to bless this one scroll of enchant armor at my stash? yes but thats not fun 16:02 <@Loggers_VIII> on weaker roles, anyway 16:02 <@fredriq> Loggers_VIII demo isn't wrong 16:03 <@fredriq> constant backtracking is not a good idea on weaker roles 16:03 I wanted to change vanilla to make waiting heal you faster, so that it would be superior to the backtracking method, but other devs think the game shouldn't be encouraging waiting and I can see the reasoning behind that 16:03 <@fredriq> because some of the "trivial spawns" become nontrivial on such roles 16:03 <@fredriq> forcing you to waste resources 16:03 @fredriq: it is better than waiting in place 16:03 <@Loggers_VIII> “The other devs think the game shouldn’t be encouraging waiting” I may have some surprising news for these developers 16:03 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:2673 16:03 because it reduces the number of dangerous spawns compared to waiting deeper 16:04 <@fredriq> ais523: probably best to wait next to a stair 16:04 @Loggers_VIII: my point is that it *does* currently encourage waiting, doing so is the most obvious tactic to heal 16:04 isn't mines also less useful early if you don't just get a mithril coat with 98% MC from it anymore? 16:04 @fredriq: so a dangerous monster spawns, you run from it, then what? you still have to do the level 16:04 <@fredriq> mithril is still really good 16:04 <@fredriq> 5 or 6 AC 16:04 <@fredriq> is no joke 16:04 i dont think ive seen anyone walk backwards to heal 16:04 <@fredriq> especially on something other than a valk that starts with bad AC 16:04 <@Loggers_VIII> me neither 16:04 <@Loggers_VIII> or monk 16:04 the most is finding a relatively safe spot, either stairs or locked room 16:04 thats what i do 16:04 anyway, the followup to this is: it's possible and common to get a pickaxe early, so what you do is to cut safe passageways between the stairs in the upper Dungeons 16:05 like you would in Gehennom 16:05 <@fredriq> monk gets a -20 to-hit penalty 16:05 <@fredriq> making them basically useless in body armor earlygame 16:05 sure, and you may get a good helmet and shield from mines too 16:05 <@Loggers_VIII> I know 16:05 <@fredriq> I do believe that monks has the easiest earlygame 16:05 <@fredriq> so they have that going for them 16:05 <@Loggers_VIII> I meant other than valk or monk 16:05 <@fredriq> but martial arts is just 16:05 <@fredriq> so bad 16:05 @fredriq: the races that benefit least from mithril are those that start with body armor, like Knights, but even those benefit 16:05 well, apart from monk with the penalty 16:05 <@fredriq> they're better off wielding a weapon latergame 16:05 <@Loggers_VIII> martial arts is the only realistically balanced damage in the game and I don’t know why they went that way 16:06 <@Umbyre (he/him)> elven mithril is 1 AC better than initial body armor for less weight 16:06 the uniqueness of monks in difficulty distribution should be replicated 16:06 <@fredriq> martial arts is really, really good earlygame 16:06 everything else follows the same route 16:06 <@Loggers_VIII> meanwhile hammers and maces do fuckall for no discernible reason 16:06 <@fredriq> due to the great to-hit and decent damage 16:06 monk is probably the only class for which the start of the game isn't the hardest part 16:06 <@fredriq> and monks' other benefits 16:06 [hdf-us] [nh343] stagnate (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:70436 16:06 <@Loggers_VIII> I love monk best role 16:06 <@fredriq> makes them have the easiest earlygame of them all 16:06 <@Loggers_VIII> except they replaced my sleep book with confuse monster >:c 16:07 <@fredriq> in fiqhack and I think some other variants, glove enchantment counts towards martial arts 16:07 lol what 16:07 when did they do that 16:07 btw, I don't actually know where the hardest part is for monks 16:07 it probably isn't the Quest? or is it? 16:07 <@Loggers_VIII> Evil does that too 16:07 <@Umbyre (he/him)> they've been done that lol 16:07 <@Loggers_VIII> but in evil monk martial arts are actually good 16:07 <@Umbyre (he/him)> it arguably is since Kaen can just splatter you 16:07 <@Loggers_VIII> In fact in evil monks are op as fuck 16:07 <@fredriq> did they revert the ridiculous change that made scare monster work on @ 16:08 <@Umbyre (he/him)> yes lol 16:08 <@fredriq> ok good 16:08 <@Loggers_VIII> Kaen is not so bad 16:08 <@fredriq> but yeah, Kaen is quite rough, but there are ways to deal with him 16:08 i think earlygame is still the hardest even for monks 16:08 <@fredriq> I consider Kaen to be the best designed quest nemesis in the game 16:08 <@Loggers_VIII> ^ 16:08 if you are dying at quest it means you didnt prepare hard enough 16:08 thats on you 16:08 <@fredriq> because it forces the player to think 16:08 <@Loggers_VIII> kaen is a fun challenge. I like him 16:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 223 points, T:1115, killed by a fox 16:09 @v? master kaen 16:09 Master Kaen (@) | Lvl: 25 | Diff: 31 | Spd: 12 | Res: poison petrification | Confer: poison | MR: 10 | Gen: unique | AC: -10 | Atk: 16d2 claw physical, 16d2 claw physical, 0d0 cast clerical, 1d4 claw amulet steal | Align: -20 | herbivore, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker, covetous, infravis 16:09 <@Loggers_VIII> Other nemeses have the potential to be unique (chromatic dragon, dark one, etc) but they fall flat because they just aren’t strong lol 16:09 <@fredriq> in fiqhack, I gave Kaen spells to make what he does in vanilla, even stronger, and gave him a means of countering boulder forts (because I was never a fan of that AI abuse) 16:09 <@Loggers_VIII> Kaen is scary and it is fun. It’s vanilla’s Lucifer 16:09 <@fredriq> but other than that, he has no way of dealing with alternate strats 16:09 <@fredriq> flying over lava, ranged combat, etc 16:09 do wands of death work? 16:10 <@Loggers_VIII> Yes 16:10 not that you'd necessarily have one that early 16:10 <@fredriq> should work I think 16:10 <@Loggers_VIII> He can’t put on the eyes 16:10 id use poly 16:10 <@Umbyre (he/him)> He can just generate with MR cloak though 16:10 what about wands of sleep? 16:10 except the last 3 times i played monk he got comr 16:10 <@Umbyre (he/him)> 1/21 I think? 16:10 <@Loggers_VIII> We don’t talk about that eventuality 16:10 <@Loggers_VIII> ais523 yes sleep is a popular method too 16:10 <@Umbyre (he/him)> sleep isn't MR blocked so 16:10 <@fredriq> for some reason I thought eoto didn't confer MR 16:10 make kaen have a high chance of having comr like rodney in evil 16:10 I'm trying to figure out how the leocrotta in the Sokoban zoo killed me despite using a wand of sleep on it 16:10 <@Loggers_VIII> no 16:11 <@fredriq> if it does, Kaen might inadvertly be more dangerous in fiqhack, because I think he's smart enough to recognize the MR 16:11 <@Loggers_VIII> just unlucky probably ais 16:11 <@Umbyre (he/him)> it's on-wear only 16:11 either I was really unlucky with the duration roll, or it willpowered it and I didn't notice somehow, or there's a mechanic I'm missing 16:11 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 16:11 <@Umbyre (he/him)> @?leocrotta 16:11 [hdf-eu] [hackm] Concrete (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2212 points, T:2318, quit 16:11 leocrotta (q) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 18 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 10 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 4 | Atk: 2d6 claw physical, 2d6 bite physical, 2d6 claw physical | Align: 0 | genocidable, omnivore, infravis 16:11 <@Loggers_VIII> 10 Mr 16:11 <@Loggers_VIII> Low chance but still there 16:11 <@Umbyre (he/him)> so you either got unlucky on willpower save or got unlucky on sleep duration 16:11 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:5645 16:11 i always thought they had 0 16:11 oops 16:12 <@Umbyre (he/him)> @v?leocrotta 16:12 leocrotta (q) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 18 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 10 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 4 | Atk: 2d6 claw physical, 2d6 bite physical, 2d6 claw physical | Align: 0 | genocidable, omnivore, infravis 16:12 <@fredriq> leocrotta should maybe not have willpowe 16:12 <@fredriq> r 16:12 <@fredriq> doesn't seem right 16:12 <@Loggers_VIII> what is willpower 16:12 <@Umbyre (he/him)> what was I thinking of... 16:12 6d6 is a lot of damage for difficulty 8 16:12 <@Umbyre (he/him)> Monster MR 16:12 <@Umbyre (he/him)> which is dumb so FIQ calls it willpower instead 16:12 hmm… thinking about it, perhaps NetHack's monster difficulty numbers are too low for mid-danger monsters 16:12 <@Loggers_VIII> ais523 yeah ya think? :p 16:12 leocrotta is fair monster imo 16:12 <@Umbyre (he/him)> I mean it is but I always feel satisfied when I can successfully kill ne 16:13 <@Umbyre (he/him)> one* 16:13 its a noob trap 16:13 <@Loggers_VIII> Leocrotta is fun 16:13 but i never die to them anymore 16:13 I think lecrottas are fair in 3.4.3 16:13 <@fredriq> mumak is a noob monster 16:13 <@fredriq> leocrotta is fast enough to lead to rare YAAD 16:13 @v? mumak 16:13 mumak (q) | Lvl: 5 | Diff: 7 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 0 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 0 | Atk: 4d12 butt physical, 2d6 bite physical | Align: -2 | genocidable, herbivore, thick hide, infravis 16:13 <@fredriq> especially with the random 10 willpower 16:13 <@fredriq> meaning wands can fail 16:13 huh, that actually appears before the leocrotta 16:13 <@Loggers_VIII> I remember my first mumak death and my first leocrotta death, basically same thing 16:14 <@Loggers_VIII> What is YAAD 16:14 <@fredriq> ais523: but mumaks are speed 9 16:14 <@Umbyre (he/him)> yet another annoying death 16:14 <@fredriq> players should be able to deal with them 16:14 yes, you can run from them unless you get cornered 16:14 <@fredriq> YAAD is basically reverse YASD 16:14 <@Loggers_VIII> mumaks are a fun puzzle 16:14 <@fredriq> YASD = death because you did something dumb 16:14 <@fredriq> YAAD=death because the game was mean 16:14 <@Umbyre (he/him)> I don't think they're unfair per se but leos can actually fuck up most early-game roles that try to just autopilot bump-fight things 16:14 they show up around soko which any character should be able to deal with by then 16:14 maybe not kill but run away from 16:14 <@Loggers_VIII> My favorite hobby is dying to leocrottas because I got cocky 16:14 Sokoban is still before you have most of your resources 16:15 you dont need resources 16:15 <@Loggers_VIII> While we’re on the topic of entirely too dangerous monsters that kill you at soko, let’s talk energy vortices 16:15 just enough hp and ac to elbereth back to the stairs 16:15 oh right, elbereth 16:15 <@fredriq> lol energy vortex 16:15 I've been playing without that recently 16:15 <@fredriq> didn't 3.6+ make them even worse 16:15 energy vortex is slightly unfair imo 16:15 you're right, elbereth would work 16:15 <@fredriq> I dislike elbereth 16:16 <@fredriq> feels like a crutch 16:16 energy vortices are weird because of the way they scale 16:16 <@Loggers_VIII> elbereth more like never use it 16:16 @v? energy vortex 16:16 energy vortex (v) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 9 | Spd: 20 | Res: sleep disintegrate shock poison petrification | Confer: nothing | MR: 30 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 2 | Atk: 1d6 engulf shock, 2d6 engulf magic drain, 0d4 passive shock | Align: 0 | genocidable, flies, breathless, mindless, unsolid, passes-bars, vegan 16:16 that 0d4 passive shock 16:16 the "0" is a placeholder for the character's level 16:16 -!- phinxy has joined #hardfought 16:16 <@fredriq> not the vortex' level like for basically every other 0d csae? 16:16 <@Loggers_VIII> energy vortices are weird because by the time you see them they are guaranteed to have enough damage and you are guaranteed to have low enough health for you to get evaporated 16:16 @fredriq: not entirely sure but I think so 16:16 <@Loggers_VIII> Characters level plus one, might I add 16:17 <@Umbyre (he/him)> I'm just a hair off quest on current Elberethless run and I've gotten like 3 of them to Quest in June 16:17 <@Loggers_VIII> elberethless is funny cuz that’s just a regular run for many people 16:17 <@fredriq> energy vortices hit like a truck 16:17 <@Umbyre (he/him)> energy vortices are p. annoying at minimum if you don't have projectiles 16:17 <@fredriq> also I think the change to how engulfing works made them even more dangerous? not sure 16:17 there is a correlation between monster and character level, monster level is adjusted based on the character's 16:18 <@fredriq> earlier when engulfers basically never spat you out 16:18 anyway, I'm just amused that it's *that* monster that got buffed, when it's one of the few that was already threatening 16:18 <@fredriq> you could just sit in one and at least only have to deal with that one monster 16:18 <@fredriq> but now that monsters spit you out, engulfers are way more dangerous 16:18 <@Loggers_VIII> Idk I usually escape because I got spat out 16:18 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Cerberus, on T:67895 (12:57:21) 16:18 well, given that it drains Pw, then maxPw, if you don't kill it 16:18 hard to escape from energy vortex when its speed 20 16:18 you pretty much have to try to kill it rather than waiting 16:19 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:67912 (12:57:40) 16:19 <@fredriq> yeah what shadowrider38 says 16:19 plus theyll eat your rings and wands if you let them attack you after they spit you out 16:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 6787 points, T:4659, killed by a raven 16:19 <@fredriq> I dislike ring destruction 16:19 cancelling it would be a good option (which makes the BoH+/oC interaction in vanilla extra-unfortunate by persuading people not to carry an important escape item with them…) 16:19 <@Umbyre (he/him)> I just keep it in a sack 16:20 <@Umbyre (he/him)> or open in absolute worst case 16:20 <@fredriq> I generally refrain from carrying cancel at all 16:20 the BoH will still explode if you put the sack into it by mistake 16:20 <@fredriq> too afraid of bohsplosions 16:20 <@Umbyre (he/him)> I'm well aware and do my best to avoid that 16:20 cancelling is not even guaranteed with 30mr 16:20 I am generally pretty good about not accidentally exploding BoHs to thinkos, but typos are still a danger 16:20 <@fredriq> yeah but things you need to cancel are few and far between 16:20 energy vortices, disenchanters 16:21 <@fredriq> so using 2-3 charges on a vortex, if cancel was actually safe to carry, is probably a good strat 16:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Fem Law) found Cleaver in a shop, on T:485 16:21 it helps on liches too but often isn't necessary 16:21 <@Umbyre (he/him)> better to have and not need imo 16:21 also it's a nice efficient way to mass-blank potions and scrolls 16:21 <@Umbyre (he/him)> something about accepted risks and what not 16:21 the level range where energy vortexes are scary you may not get cancel at all 16:21 just as likely as other outs 16:21 <@Umbyre (he/him)> and that, ofc 16:22 so I think the problem is that we have an item that's powerful but helps make the game better-balanced (/oC), which has an *interface* downside that persuades cautious people not to use it 16:22 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:8708 16:22 and thus the game ends up being worse 16:22 <@Loggers_VIII> this is like technically true but also so minor 16:23 it may be that the AceHack/NH4 BoH+/oC fix doesn't go far enough, and it should outright be "The wand won't go into the bag." 16:23 i am one that p much never carries them but i will be upset if it got removed 16:23 thats so nethackcore to change 16:23 <@fredriq> I would carry it if all variants worked like NH4 16:23 <@fredriq> even if it violates the InterHack principe 😛 16:23 <@Loggers_VIII> Like yeah I don’t use wands of cancellation but it’s my cross to bear i guess 16:23 YASI: wand of cancellation is unrandomized as long wand, and long wands are too long to fit into bags 16:24 <@Loggers_VIII> I think it’s an interesting dynamic. Do you trust yourself enough to carry this item that might help you out once or twice but could fuck you over? It’s so nethacky. I’m against any change making it easier to avoid putting it in the bag 16:24 <@Loggers_VIII> It’s just so goofy 16:24 <@fredriq> I mean, I wear LS 16:24 <@fredriq> I don't trust myself 16:25 <@Loggers_VIII> Everyone has that one story about when they put the wand in the bag 16:25 <@fredriq> I did it twice in dnh 16:25 one? 16:25 somehow I don't 16:25 <@Loggers_VIII> I’m an even more dangerous combo. I don’t trust myself and I don’t wear lifesaving :p 16:25 fwiw I have used the BoH+/oC combination on many occasions without accidents 16:25 <@fredriq> but this was during wowbug 16:25 but I probably just haven't played enough 16:25 and I did carry a wand of cancel (in a sack) 16:25 <@Loggers_VIII> I destroyed the bag of the Hesperides in evil once 16:25 I am also the sort of person who will, when worrying about the combination, consider going without the bag of holding rather than the wand of cancellation 16:26 <@fredriq> I wonder if any variant hosted on hdf still has vorpal bug 16:26 this is, I think, probably intended as a method of balancing the bag of holding (rather than the wand) 16:26 doesn't grunt have it still? 16:26 but I am still scared enough that I name the wand something scary and all uppercase 16:26 @fredriq: AceHack and NH4 might? (AceHack probably does, NH4 quite possibly doesn't due to turnstate) I'm not even sure whether that bug is worth fixing, it's hilarious 16:26 <@Loggers_VIII> What is vorpal bug 16:27 slam probably 16:27 Demo no it doesnt 16:27 spork even more probably 16:27 <@fredriq> who maintains nethackwiki? 16:27 @Loggers_VIII: if you OHKO a monster with Vorpal Blade, and then don't attack normally then on but *throw* Vorpy instead 16:27 it oneshots everything 16:27 <@fredriq> it is really annoying that I can't visit URLs with spaces in them on the wiki 16:27 <@fredriq> makes it a huge pain to use the URL bar to go to wikipages 16:27 <@Loggers_VIII> just use underscore? 16:27 <@Loggers_VIII> Or am I being stupid 16:27 <@Loggers_VIII> Is that not what you’re complaining about 16:28 but it stops working if you ever make a melee attack, until you set it up again 16:28 <@fredriq> underscore works yeah, but it would be far easier to just allow spaces 16:28 (the OHKO has to be to Vorpy's special effect, not just "enough damage") 16:28 wow, I hadn't heard of this vorpal bug. when did it appear? 16:28 it exists in 3.4.3 and probably a number of versions before that 16:28 -!- docpi has joined #hardfought 16:28 but was only discovered fairly recently 16:28 <@Loggers_VIII> God that is funny 16:28 turns out that people don't throw Vorpy very often, so they didn't notice that the instakill chance wasn't being rerolle 16:28 yeah 16:29 how do people figure this stuff out 16:29 i wonder how many times ive experienced a bug and didnt realize because i wasnt paying attention or just chalked it up to playing too fast and missing something 16:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:10620 16:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 918 points, T:2789, killed by a hobbit 16:30 <@Loggers_VIII> I find bugs sometimes and mention it once at 3am and then get confused when it isn’t fixed 16:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 34 points, T:84, killed by a fox 16:30 anyway, I am not convinced that the bugfix was needed for balance reasons (although the old behaviour is clearly buggy, which is a different good reason to fix) 16:30 having your only form of attack being "throw an artifact" seems impractical, even if you do oneshot everything 16:31 <@Loggers_VIII> And it’s so damn funny 16:31 …also you are risking a monster getting to the thrown Vorpy before you can, picking it up and using it against you 16:31 theres an artifact in some variants called houchou that does that except you only get to use it once 16:31 <@Loggers_VIII> Pfft, it’s only a five percent chance 16:31 we added it to the https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Bug_Hall_of_Fame 16:31 if you decide not to fix it then you'll have to teach the trick to some high-level non-lawful monsters who may generate with it randomly 16:31 getting to do it over and over again sounds broken af 16:31 it is probably the best example of a bug that should go there, some of them are dubious but this one is just great 16:31 <@Loggers_VIII> shadowrider38 I think splicehack has something to that effect too 16:31 <@fredriq> ais523: I think it was far problematic in variants with the vorpal property (grunt, dyna, technically fiq) 16:32 <@fredriq> in case of vorpal thrown daggers 16:32 yes, vorpal thrown daggers would be broken 16:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Bar Orc Mal Cha) was chosen to steal souls for the Glory of Set, on T:33784 16:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Bar Orc Mal Cha) was bestowed with Stormbringer, on T:33784 16:32 it's only funny (rather than broken) because Vorpal Blade is an artifact 16:33 where's the fix for it? 16:33 <@fredriq> this is ithe best comment in NetHack 16:33 <@fredriq> unsigned run; /* 0: h (etc), 1: H (etc), 2: fh (etc) / / 3: FH, 4: ff+, 5: ff-, 6: FF+, 7: FF- / / 8: travel */ 16:33 [hdf-us] [xnh] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:472 16:33 searching 'vorpal' on the repo doesnt bring it up 16:34 is that one still there? 16:34 the vorpal bug bit was a few years ago if i recall, its not recent 16:34 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Fem Cha) had a dark elven spear entrusted to her by Kos, on T:17381 (4:39:18) 16:34 (the comment, I mean) 16:34 I remember it from 3.4.3 16:34 <@fredriq> it is! 16:34 <@fredriq> include/context.h 16:34 <@fredriq> still has that glorious comment 16:34 welp time for my villain arc 16:35 I think the hunger bug (where a melee attack makes you pay that turn's ring/amulet hunger besides the normal nutrition cost) should go there because the comments in the code clearly show that it's not intended but it's been there for so long that it's too late to remove now 16:35 it's too subtle though 16:35 most players would never notice 16:35 and it isn't something you can exploit well 16:36 <@fredriq> hm, does NH3.4.3+ still use warnlevel? 16:36 something like the double =oSD trick is more worthy of that page 16:36 <@fredriq> I know it's from how warning used to work way back 16:36 I think warnlevel is obsolete, not sure though 16:36 <@fredriq> when it was really annoying 16:36 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36 <@fredriq> from what I recall from reading ancient discussions, an artifact conferring warning was typically seen as a disadvantage 16:36 <@fredriq> due to how it used to work 16:37 yes, I was wondering if nutrition should be changed so that rings cost 1/8 nutrition ever turn instead of 1 nutrition every 8 turns. that can be done while still leaving the melee+ring combo nutrition, it would just also add 1/8 per ring regardless which turn you attack in 16:37 <@fredriq> (remember that this was before MSGTYPE) 16:37 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Fem Cha), 47118 points, T:17392, killed by a mountain centaur, while praying 16:37 I mostly like the hunger bug not because it's exploitable or evil or anything, but how it arised in the code 16:37 [hdf-us] [un] bismatum (Sam Hum Mal Law) averted death (Ashikaga Takauji), on T:97912 (2 days, 8:01:29) 16:39 [hdf-us] [un] bismatum (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Ashikaga Takauji, on T:97952 16:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 797 points, T:2144, killed by a hobbit 16:40 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:40 wow, some of those variant bugs on that hall of fame page are hilarious 16:40 I haven't read that page before, though I do recognize a few of the bugs 16:41 you were around for the original version of the page I think, but not since it was moved to the wiki and expanded to cover all variants 16:42 <@fredriq> "Also during dNethack's original Junethack outing, ranged monster spellcasting was implemented in the middle of the tournament due to the author's mistaken belief that it was present in vanilla NetHack, and therefore its absence in dNetHack was due to a bug." is probably my favorite bug from that page 16:42 <@fredriq> because to this day, dnh has ranged spellcasters 16:42 <@fredriq> due to this "bug" 16:42 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Yeenoghu, on T:69183 (13:21:05) 16:42 <@Umbyre (he/him)> what happened oh6? 16:42 my favourite is the Fourk speed bug 16:42 well I got crowned with stormbringer 16:42 and I never turn down stormbringer 16:42 but that is also a great entry – it's more the opposite of a bug than an actual bug, but definitely worth mentioning 16:43 <@Umbyre (he/him)> o 16:43 <@Umbyre (he/him)> thought something Bad happened 16:44 sorry if I alarmed you ;) 16:44 <@Loggers_VIII> I like bugs but I wish I would experience less of them personally 16:44 I wish I found some interesting bug 16:44 <@Loggers_VIII> This sentence is interchangeable between real life bugs and computer bugs 16:45 <@fredriq> I found it to be a bit of a shame that you couldn't somehow go up by 2 dungeon levels in fiqhack after I learned of the Home:-1 bug 16:45 nabru: best way to find bugs is to attempt to refactor the code without changing behaviour 16:45 <@fredriq> because it would have allowed you to skip the VS by doing the sort of shenanigans you typically see in old console games 16:45 ais523: yep, I can imagine that 16:45 AceHack managed somehow to accidentally add a Mines filler level below Mine's End 16:46 although that got fixed eventually 16:46 no, the best way to find bugs is to release your game to the public and have them play it 16:46 this is part of the reason why NH4 doesn't change the staircases in the Mines to ladders, even though it would make more sense 16:46 <@fredriq> I like to call junethack the "Annual NetHack Variant Beta Testing Initiative" 16:46 K2: that generally only finds bugs in the parts of the game characters would actually use 16:46 have you ever tried removing RDSM while sinking into lava? 16:47 yep, but not many players are going to find bugs if they don't push things to the edge 16:47 all the time :) 16:47 oops i'm in lava, lets get naked 16:47 IIRC, in 3.4.3, it doesn't actually kill you even if there are no other fire res sources (but am not totally sure I have the details right) 16:47 <@shadow_rider> see this is what i mean 16:47 <@shadow_rider> how does anyone discover this stuff 16:47 by playing 16:47 I was rewriting the properties-from-equipment code for NH4 16:48 I doubt it'd have been discovered otherwise 16:48 <@fredriq> from slex bug HoF: >If the player picked up both, then dropped one, level teleportation became possible again, allowing the player to skip the entire ascension run if they wanted. And to top it off, Rodney would not harass the player anymore either. 16:48 <@fredriq> this makes me wonder how vanilla tracks amulet carrying 16:48 sure you can find bugs that way too. but the vast majority, players find 16:48 3.4.3 had been out for many years before anyone realised the mysterious force probabilities didn't match the comment above them 16:48 <@fredriq> fiqhack probably kills you 16:48 that only got noticed when I rewrote NH4's RNG for seeded mode, and wanted to make the mysterious force pattern the same for all games with the same seed and character alignment 16:48 <@Loggers_VIII> oh btw k2 oil lamps don’t hurt drow to turn on 16:48 <@fredriq> iirc I run spoteffects if player loses fire res 16:49 <@shadow_rider> i think a version of this bug still exists but i will not disclose it bc i want to use it 16:49 NH4's code is different from vanilla's in this respect 16:49 loggers, because its just a regular light source and not a super bright magical one 16:49 <@Loggers_VIII> gotcha 16:49 <@Loggers_VIII> wasn’t sure if that was a bug or not 16:49 my other favorite bug is the fourweapon bug. if you are polymorphed to a monster with two weapon attacks, such as an elevenking, then you can twoweapon (regardless your role) and your melee attack gives you four attacks: two each with your main weapon and off-hand weapon. 16:50 shouldn't an elevenking have eleven attacks? 16:50 no 16:50 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping 5 clear potions on an altar, on T:10758 16:50 <@shadow_rider> lol 16:50 'but it goes to eleven' 16:50 <@fredriq> shenanigans like this is why I never finished my xhity rework 16:50 I can see how that fourweapon bug happens, though – the code isn't clear what "this monster has two monster attacks" means as a polyform 16:51 <@fredriq> I wasn't convinced what to do about the numerous balance differences in behaviour between how player and monster "sstandard" attacks work 16:51 <@shadow_rider> does anyone know how weapon attacks work for polyforms 16:51 <@shadow_rider> i still don’t to this day 16:51 fwiw I'm increasingly wondering if the NH4 approach is a dead end, now that vanilla is being developed – code/internals improvements to the extent of NH4 make it very hard to take patches/changes from other variants 16:51 <@shadow_rider> despite looking into it many times 16:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 23228 points, T:10891, quit 16:51 <@fredriq> I think in 3.7, it will use your primary weapon for the first weapon attack, then your secondary for the 2nd one 16:52 <@fredriq> then go back to primary for 3rd, etc 16:52 so keeping up is almost impossible, even for patches that seem desirable 16:52 <@fredriq> if you don't twoweapon, it jjust uses your primary for all of them 16:52 vanilla is still on version 3 16:52 <@shadow_rider> intersting 16:52 <@fredriq> ais523: some 3.4.3 variants still see development 16:52 <@fredriq> dnh, fiqhack, unnethack(?) 16:53 so NH4 can't die yet til vanilla makes it to 5 16:53 unnethack isnt 3.4.3 based anymore 16:53 "From at least 3.1.0 until 3.6.6, a monster using Stormbringer's drain life attack on another monster would result in healing the player instead of the attacker." => that one got fixed in Magic: the Gathering, but I think it was deliberate and fixed for balance. the old Spirit Link always healed you, the new Lifelink aura, which costs the same, heals the creature's controller 16:53 [hdf-us] [xnh] dart (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 1912 points, T:2625, quit 16:53 hasnt been for awhile 16:53 <@fredriq> K2: oh? interesting, I assumed the 3.6 changes were backported, but that the codebase was still 3.4.3 16:53 [hdf-us] [xnh] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) found Dragonbane on the floor, on T:2968 16:53 <@fredriq> I guess the reverse happened 16:53 its now more like a 3.6/3.7 hybrid 16:53 <@fredriq> ok 16:53 it would probably not be too hard to rebase NH4's gameplay changes onto 3.7 16:53 and there's prob some 3.4.3 bits floating around 16:54 although that would miss half the point of NH4, which is mostly about interface 16:54 <@fredriq> ais523: NH4 has minimal gameplay changes 16:54 <@fredriq> the truly interesting parts of NH4 imo is the internals 16:54 <@fredriq> and the libuncused UI 16:54 <@fredriq> *libuncursed 16:54 actively developed variants would be dnh/ndnh 16:54 *3.4.3 variants 16:54 <@fredriq> isn't un also semi-active? 16:55 bhaak did a version update just a couple months ago 16:55 and its not a 3.4.3 based variant anymore 16:55 <@fredriq> I wonder how hard it'd be to make a libuncursed port to 3.7 16:56 I would like to port the libuncursed UI to 3.7 at some point, but got held back by libuncursed kind-of needing a rewrite but me not having the energy to do it 16:56 <@fredriq> I did one for grunt 3.4.3 as a proof o f concept, but it was based on the curses interface and never really worked right 16:56 <@fredriq> because there are subtle differences between libuncursed and curses 16:57 [hdf-us] [ndnh] bleeko (Bar Hum Mal Neu) became the Envoy of Balance, on T:24071 16:57 <@fredriq> it was also a pain to build iirc because the 3.4.3 buil system sucks 16:57 <@fredriq> ais523: it would also be nice to have 4.3save for NH3.6+ variants 16:58 oh right, 4.3save 16:58 <@fredriq> the saves are bigger, but it's far easier to recover them 16:58 yeah port nh4 saves onto 37 16:58 are nh4 saves portable or not? 16:58 *that* would be interesting to port to vanilla, but there's next to zero chance it would ever be accepted 16:58 <@fredriq> yes, of course 16:58 vanilla should at least have portable saves 16:58 <@fredriq> it does, nowdays I think 16:59 does libuncursed still write a \e[C instead of reprint the character whenever you overwrite a line in the message bar and a character happens to match what's on screen from the old message? it doesn't really have any practical consequence but I found it so … wasteful in an abstract way 16:59 libuncursed's API was primarily designed with the goal of "make it easy to port curses programs" rather than specifically "make it work like curses" – curses' API is kind-of ridiculous 16:59 b_jonas: I think it counts how many characters and just rewrites them if rewriting them woudl be faster 16:59 <@fredriq> ais523: the problem isn't the API differences 16:59 <@fredriq> those were easy to work-around 16:59 good 17:00 <@fredriq> but the subtle differences in how windows behave 17:00 <@fredriq> the curses interface never actually gets rid of the splash screen, it just prints over it 17:00 <@fredriq> I don't remember exact details, but libuncursed really didn't like this 17:00 <@fredriq> and would just flash the splash screen constantly 17:01 <@fredriq> also, libuncursed has a bug wrt COLOR_PAIR 17:01 <@fredriq> the highest color set with a custom color pair is ignored 17:01 <@fredriq> meaning I had to add a dummy COLOR_PAIR to work-around this 17:04 <@fredriq> ais523: something I've noticed that I find pretty interesting, which I suspect (but don't know for sure) is windowport-related 17:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) signified by divine providence, was chosen to carry Excalibur, on T:2101 17:05 <@fredriq> dynahack is far snappier than NH4+friends 17:05 nh4 does feel sluggish to me 17:05 but i just assumed i played with the wrong settings 17:06 The magic missile hits the large cat! It explodes! 17:06 ah, those exploding cats 17:06 it might not be windowport-related? NH4 removes some optimisations from 3.4.3 that are present in NitroHack in order to make the code clearer 17:06 [hdf-eu] [dyn] FIQ (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 8 points, T:129, killed by a sewer rat 17:06 e.g. the way trinsics are calculated 17:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:6129 17:07 profiling occasionally points to those as performance culprits 17:07 in which case I have to partially re-add them 17:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 7697 points, T:6213, killed by an owlbear 17:08 <@fredriq> ais523: I feel like it's the interface that is being slow 17:08 does this happen even when playing locally? 17:08 <@fredriq> NH4+friends is also slow in terms of the gameplay engine, but it shouldn't be noticeable on a turn-by-turn basis generally 17:08 if so, it wouldn't be too hard to start up a profiler 17:08 <@fredriq> not locally no 17:09 in that case, maybe libuncursed is producing extra network traffic compared to curses? 17:09 <@fredriq> (also fiqhack caches intrinsics, because you are right in that they're slow) 17:09 there's a bug in some terminal or other that it works around by sending enough NUL bytes to overflow some internal #buffer 17:09 <@fredriq> but that's a game engine thing 17:09 * internal buffer 17:10 and those might be noticeable over a netowrk 17:10 there might be some other bug that causes it to send inefficient VT100 17:10 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 17:10 <@fredriq> but iirc I connect witih compression enabled 17:10 <@fredriq> yeah ssh -C 17:10 <@fredriq> it might just be the polyglotting in general 17:10 <@fredriq> since more characters are sent 17:10 <@fredriq> idk 17:11 there actually isn't a whole lot of polyglotting in current libuncursed 17:11 that was one theory I had for how to do it 17:11 but nowadays it's primarily based around autodiscovery via cursor position requests 17:11 <@fredriq> bright+bold? 17:11 <@fredriq> ah 17:11 + using lowest-common-denominator codes 17:11 this is also why it uses bold-is-bright 17:11 <@fredriq> hm 17:12 <@fredriq> splicehack made curses dialogs have a blue border 17:12 but I think it may send two color codes for bolded characters 17:12 <@fredriq> I wonder why 17:12 I'm not sure why purple was chosen in the first place 17:12 …nor whether that was me or someone else who chose it – I want to think it was someone else, not sure though 17:12 <@fredriq> NitroHack chose it because the curses interface did 17:13 <@fredriq> as for why the curses interface chose purple, I think you'd have to ask the OG developer of it 17:13 <@fredriq> NitroHack's curses interface was inspired from the NH3 curses windowport 17:13 <@fredriq> it says so somewhere, I forgot where 17:14 <@fredriq> but since they both use purple.. yeah 17:14 they use purple for what? 17:14 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:14 <@fredriq> dialogs 17:16 border of dialogs 17:17 <@fredriq> like this 17:17 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/1127710037582827611/image.png 17:17 <@joes5898> good card game, Exploding Kittens 17:21 <@fredriq> ais523: you know what would be nice 17:21 <@fredriq> reimplementing !classic_status 17:21 <@fredriq> to the curses interface 17:21 <@fredriq> 😛 17:21 <@fredriq> it's what the above is 17:22 was your patch to do that explicitly rejected? or just ignored? 17:23 <@fredriq> I thought dnh allowed you to pick halfdragon breaeth 17:23 <@fredriq> I didn't get such an option 17:24 no, it does not 17:24 <@fredriq> ais523: I asked if DT was interested in a proper port of it (it was previously commented out as part of the 3.6 port since statuscolors didn't exist in 3.6+), DT had no interest in it 17:24 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:6372 17:24 <@fredriq> this was several years ago 17:25 <@fredriq> and curses was still not really mature on 3.6 yet 17:25 <@fredriq> so maybe I could look into it again 17:25 <@fredriq> (well it'd be 3.7 now but yeah) 17:26 <@fredriq> also I ought to look into implementing statushilites to fiqhack at some point 17:27 <@fredriq> it's a superior version of statuscolors nowdays, and allows things taht statuscolors didn't 17:27 <@fredriq> I colorize attributes based on the bonus it confers to a particular stat 17:27 <@fredriq> very handy IMO 17:28 <@fredriq> for example, Str is colored based on the damage bonus 17:29 I seem to remember that status_hilites was a little touchy because the devteam wanted it to work on every windowport, and it takes a while to change all the windowports 17:29 <@fredriq> dexterity is to-hit bonus, constitution is HP bonus, charisma is sell bonus 17:29 <@fredriq> I wanted to figure out a good way to base color scheme on for Int and Wis but didn't figure anything out 17:30 <@fredriq> pw is random, or I'd use wis for pw gain 17:32 <@fredriq> anyway, the color setup makes it immediately clear whether I'm getting a bonus or a malus for something 17:32 <@fredriq> very handy especially for shopkeeper rates 17:32 I'm not sure I understand how this affects the actual colors 17:32 <@fredriq> oh I never mentioned them, but they're colored rainbow-y 17:32 is it just, color an ability in green if it's high enough to provide a bonus to the thing it's most important for? 17:33 <@fredriq> # -4:black -3:orange, -2:red, -1:brown, 0:yellow, 1:lightgreen, 2:green, # 3:cyan, 4:lightcyan, 5:lightblue, 6:blue, 7:magenta, 8:lightmagenta, 17:33 <@fredriq> (for Discord users: idk why the text became giant size) 17:33 <@fredriq> ais523: That is the idea, yeah 17:34 @fredriq: leading 17:34 <@fredriq> 9+ is white, comes up for dex 17:34 * leading # in Markdown is one way to write the

tag from HTML, and the only one that works as a one-liner 17:34 <@fredriq> ah 17:34 this is incredibly easy to trigger by accident, in practice 17:34 <@fredriq> heh 17:34 I don't know why so many Markdown-based chat systems support it, there are obvious reasons not to 17:34 who would want to write an

tag in chat anyway? 17:35 <@fredriq> but yeah I am a fan of the color setup above, it helps for Con and Cha in particular, and to a lesser extent the other 2 attributes it colorizes 17:35 vanilla overuses "color something to show it changed" but have found that helpful for ability scores, which don't change often 17:36 <@fredriq> I wanted to underline attribute changes 17:36 <@fredriq> but keep the color 17:36 <@fredriq> but wasn't able to make it do that 17:36 <@fredriq> one or the other, not both 17:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law) became literate by engraving "we", on T:3416 17:36 for HP I mostly rely on "gray = full, green = high, other color = something is wrong" – gray=full was an intentional choice in NH4 so that that corner of the screen would all be gray unless you were injured / lacking Pw 17:36 (and low Pw and low HP have different colors so you can easily tell whihc) 17:36 <@fredriq> yeah I copy the HP and Pw colors in my curses configs 17:37 <@fredriq> I wanted to make it possible to color curses border frames upon low HP but never figured out a good way to configure it 17:38 <@fredriq> I considered &border or similar as a statushilite suffix 17:38 NH4 does that using palette changes 17:38 <@fredriq> but meh 17:38 <@fredriq> I meant, I never figured out a good way to configure it in the rc file 17:38 right 17:38 <@fredriq> the border changes themselves are simple 17:39 I think the problem is that status_hilites doesn't let you color one field based on the value of another 17:39 like, you can't make your Str go red when you're on low HP, or the like 17:39 and that's functionality that would make border configuration more intuitie 17:39 [hdf-us] [hackm] willisllama (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1007 points, T:2019, killed by an arrow 17:39 * intuitive 17:39 <@fredriq> I think that's why I wanted something like &border 17:39 <@fredriq> so that I could tell the game "this change should also apply to the curses border" 17:40 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #hardfought 17:40 <@fredriq> but that makes it non-obvious what to do if multiple things can set the border color 17:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "marker", got "a magic marker", on T:8509 17:41 NH4 has a few different border color overrides, I think I just prioritised them manually as it's hardcoded anyway 17:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 cursed genocide", got "2 scrolls labeled KIRJE", on T:8509 17:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 holy charging", got "a scroll labeled FOOBIE BLETCH", on T:8510 17:41 my main issue with status_hilites is that people are expected to configure it themself 17:41 <@fredriq> iirc I didn't like some of nh4's settings 17:41 <@fredriq> and ended up changing the order a bit 17:42 <@fredriq> in particular, iirc NH4 makes hungry override low HP warnings 17:42 letting the player configure is fine, but the default config should be sensible 17:42 <@fredriq> which I think is a rather bad idea 17:42 hunger overriding low HP is probably a bug, it seems out of character for me to do that intentionally 17:42 like, maybe I just had a thinko when prioritising? 17:43 <@fredriq> idk, ask younger ais523 😛 17:44 ais523 of that time was fairly sensible 17:44 <@fredriq> but yeah I think I made low HP override everything besides delayed instadeath 17:44 <@fredriq> I also added a new lower-priority border (below hungry) for minor zombification 17:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 93966 points, T:8665, quit 17:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law) consumed animal products for the first time, by eating a gecko corpse, on T:3980 17:45 K2: 2020 is a couple months ago? 17:45 <@fredriq> oh yeah NH4 also had a silly border bug 17:45 <@fredriq> that made it igñore bright coloration 17:45 <@fredriq> I fixed that too, 17:45 bhaak yes exactly 17:45 <@fredriq> idr if I made a PR to nh4 for it 17:46 <@fredriq> lol bhaak 17:46 6.0.8 came out in may this year 17:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 113 points, T:130, killed by a water moccasin 17:46 april/may if i recall 17:46 <@fredriq> I thought un's last change was last year 17:46 nope 17:46 <@fredriq> because I found a review from hackemslashem 17:47 <@fredriq> that was last year 17:47 i happen to know the hdf server admin 17:47 <@fredriq> I figured it was done after some major update 17:47 <@fredriq> I guess not 17:47 he keeps on top of that kinda stuff :) 17:47 <@fredriq> yes I also know this guy 17:48 <@fredriq> he keeps asking me to rebase dyna onto fh 17:48 keeps? 17:48 <@fredriq> 🙂 17:48 its been awhile i think 17:48 <@fredriq> well it was a while since last time 17:48 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) destroyed Kas, on T:71390 (14:27:19) 17:48 <@fredriq> but for a time it was a somewhat common request 17:48 you kinda dropped off the face of the earth there for a bit 17:48 <@fredriq> in fact I think a nhqdb entry mocked him for it 😛 17:49 we mock what we dont understand 17:49 <@fredriq> (not by me) 17:49 <@fredriq> Yeah I did a bunch of romhacking 17:49 <@fredriq> I might get back to it if the main dev begins work on it again. I have some plans to implement an online infrastructure to it 17:49 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 17:50 <@fredriq> but for bnow I'll tinker on fiqhack 17:50 the dyna thing is basically dead yeah? 17:50 <@fredriq> I mean it never started, did it? 17:51 <@fredriq> I tend to hyperfixate on one thing for a long time, and can end up changing what I fixate on at any moment 17:51 <@fredriq> chances are that if I keep tinkering with fh, I'll inadvertly change my fixation point again 17:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1877 17:52 I used to hyperfixate, but nowadays I find the opposite happens, I can hardly concentrate on one thing for more than a few hours a week 17:53 <@fredriq> for I time I swung between fixating on romhacking, and on playing incremental games 17:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4403 17:53 <@fredriq> but because when I lost interest in incrementals after some months of playing that, basically nothing had happened with the romhack I contribute to, I ended up looking for other stuff 17:54 <@fredriq> hence why I ended up here 17:54 <@fredriq> because it was June 17:54 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) was bestowed with Magicbane by Thoth, on T:2671 (0:22:27) 17:55 I never really understood incremental games 17:56 <@fredriq> the reason I like incrementals is the act of discovering and mastering different mechanics over time 17:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 290 points, T:631, killed by a bolt of cold played by a gnome 17:57 <@fredriq> figuring out the best way to proceed 17:57 <@fredriq> I always play incrementals blind 17:57 <@fredriq> the exact opposite to roguelikes 17:58 now I'm trying to remember whether I ever read spoilers for HyperRogue – I don't think I did 17:58 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:3161 17:58 <@fredriq> neither have I 17:58 <@fredriq> it might be because thegame didn't interest me 😛 17:58 <@fredriq> I did try it 17:58 I did read some advertising which contained previews of some of the levels, but they don't help much 17:58 <@fredriq> didn't really care for it 17:59 K2: the importing of 3.6 was in 2020, not in May :-p 17:59 I am not convinced that it is, in its default mode, actually a roguelike 17:59 it doesn't follow the normal roguelike balancing patterns 17:59 Orb Strategy Mode plays a lot more like a roguelike does 17:59 the game as a whole has balance issues but I still enjoy it to some extent 18:00 <@fredriq> the worst balanced roguelike I've played and gotten some enjoyment of si caves of qud, but I don't really like it nowdays 18:00 <@fredriq> I enjoyed creating crazy esper builds, but it gets old quick imo 18:01 <@Loggers_VIII> caves of qud is only worth talking about because of their silly discord server lol 18:01 <@Loggers_VIII> the game itself gets old kind of quick 18:01 <@fredriq> ah yes, the one you can't visit 18:01 <@fredriq> yeah that is how I feel about the game 18:01 I haven't heard of this discord server 18:01 <@fredriq> I can enjoy it in very short bursts 18:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:4630 18:02 <@fredriq> I get more enjoyment out of dcss, and I don't really like the game design of dcss 18:02 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by engraving "xx", on T:4717 18:02 <@Loggers_VIII> ais523 it’s a rabbit hole but basically a YouTuber made a video on coq and as a result they got flooded with some people they didn’t like 18:02 <@fredriq> ais523: there was some drama surrounding a faction practicing genocide in that game 18:02 bhaak i was stating that the last update to unnethack was in may 18:02 not when 3.6 got pulled in 18:03 <@fredriq> asking the discord how to befriend them tended to get you banned to my understanding 18:03 <@Loggers_VIII> so they locked the discord server and you can only get in if you’re approved through an application process, which I suspect they don’t do anymore 18:03 ah, I see 18:03 small communities often have trouble when they get invaded 18:03 <@fredriq> despite the game doing a rather poor job explaining templar ideology to new players 18:03 often you just have to lock submissions and wait for things to blow over 18:03 <@Loggers_VIII> yeah, but it’s been years now and it’s still essentially impossible to get in 18:04 <@Loggers_VIII> I have an application that’s been pending for months and I think they just rejected it without telling me 18:04 <@fredriq> @Loggers_VIII they still have rules surrounding templar faction to my understanding 18:05 <@fredriq> which rubs me the wrong way, both due to how little their ideology actually manifests in-game if at all, and because things like gta exists... fictional worlds and all that 18:05 <@Loggers_VIII> yeah like it’s just a video game :p 18:06 <@fredriq> and if it really bothered them so much ... why even have them in-game? 18:06 <@Loggers_VIII> anyway from what I’ve seen their discord server is very weird so maybe it was a blessing in disguise I didn’t get it 18:06 <@Loggers_VIII> exactly 18:06 <@Loggers_VIII> *get in 18:07 <@fredriq> hm this talk reminds me of Familicide 18:07 <@Loggers_VIII> what about it 18:07 <@fredriq> which is an attempt at deconstructing the genocide mechanic some games have 18:09 <@fredriq> @Loggers_VIII there is a comic, order of the stick, where one of the main character casts Familicide on a black dragon, wiping out like a fourth of all black dragons in the world. Later on, they stumbled upon a completely abandoned ghost town that turned out to be "abandoned" because they descended from one of the ancestors of this black dragon 18:09 <@Loggers_VIII> huh 18:09 <@fredriq> and thus was wiped out as part of the spell 18:10 <@fredriq> (Familicide targeted the black dragon's children, their parent's children, etc, a long way backwards, idr exact details) 18:11 <@Loggers_VIII> sounds op 18:12 <@fredriq> yes, the spell was op 18:12 <@fredriq> the main character had access to op powers for a limited time 18:12 <@fredriq> which is where Familicide came from 18:13 <@Loggers_VIII> it is true that the ramifications of things like genocide spells aren’t thought of often, though of course it’s just a game mechanics# 18:13 <@fredriq> mhm 18:13 <@Loggers_VIII> reminds me of the GitHub issue that proposed changing scroll of geno’s namr 18:13 <@Loggers_VIII> *name 18:13 <@fredriq> Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon ported the genocide mechanic and adapted it to that game 18:13 <@fredriq> which... surprised me a lot 18:13 <@Loggers_VIII> Hah, what the hell 18:14 <@fredriq> of all roguelike mechanics to make it into PMD, I didn't expect that one to be adapted 18:14 <@fredriq> Of course it isn't genocide now, but it works similarly mechanically 18:14 is it species-specific infinite repel? 18:14 <@fredriq> "Ban" seed, permanently forbids one move from being used for the rest of the dungeon 18:15 what's the flavour in PSMD? 18:15 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:8406 18:15 ah, on moves rather than species 18:15 how do you choose the move? 18:15 <@fredriq> I don't remember, iirc it picks the last used move 18:15 <@fredriq> by anyone 18:16 <@fredriq> or possibly the last used move by the one given the seed 18:16 <@fredriq> that would make more sense 18:16 does PSMD have unidentified items, btw? or is it like the earlier games, where the item selection is clearly designed for an ID game but all the items come pre-identified anyway? 18:16 <@fredriq> No unIDed items 18:17 wait, isn't genocide a TCG mechanic? I assume that's where they got it from, not from nethack 18:17 <@fredriq> mystery dungeon is inspired by traditional roguelikes 18:17 the shops there work incredibly similarly to NetHack in particular, which seems unlikely to be a coincidence 18:17 <@fredriq> so I assume ban seed was inspired from the genocide mechanic, because I can't see what else it would be inspired by 18:18 not many games have NetHack-type shops 18:18 Spelunky kind of does, but true 18:18 <@fredriq> yeah I've only ever seen NH-style shops in 2 games 18:18 well, Pokémon has Grudge and Imprison 18:18 <@fredriq> NetHack... obviously, and PMD 18:18 Spelunky is another game whose shops seem clearly NetHack-inspired 18:20 and not just the shops but the skeleton keys 18:22 PMD keys work more like Zelda keys than NetHack keys 18:22 open any door but are consumable and only work on one door ever 18:22 <@fredriq> apparently Shiren the Wanderer had actual genocide scrolls 18:22 also locked doors in PMD and Zelda are almost unbypassable without the key, whereas there are plenty of ways past a lock door in NetHack 18:22 <@fredriq> so the PMD ban seed was likely from that, which in turn is almost certainly from NetHack 18:23 <@fredriq> https://www.reddit.com/r/MysteryDungeon/comments/3vpkbf/enemy_roles_from_shiren_to_pmd_and_psmd/ 18:26 Spelunky 2 has a death drop mechanic where each monster can drop only a few specific items depending on its species. some of those drops are guaranteed, some have like 1/10 chance, but some are rare with like 1/1000 chance. mosquitos can rarely drop a hoverpack (since they hover slowly moving horizontally and buzz just like a hover pack lets you), Jiangshi (a type of undead) have 1/1000 chance to drop 18:26 spring boots (because Jiangshi jump instead of walk), 18:26 and skeletons have 1/1000 chance to drop a skeleton key. 18:26 skeletons rarely dropping a skeleton key absolutely sounds like a nethack mechanic 18:28 I don't think they have any increased chance to do that in NetHack, right? (although it can happen because it's a legitimate deathdrop from almost any monster) 18:29 I think skeletons don't death drop anything 18:29 they have no corpse 18:29 in nethack that is 18:30 What is the wrathful characteristic on a weapon? Is that attack anyone, like stormy? 18:30 huh, is it really the case that corpseless monsters can't deathdrop? 18:30 <@fredriq> the only cases of NH having monster-unique drops are unihorns and dragon scales I believe 18:30 rld: no, some golems have specific drops too 18:30 <@fredriq> you can also make fireproof low boots by zapping poly on their corpse 18:30 <@fredriq> ah true 18:31 <@fredriq> *zapping poly on crocodile corpses 18:31 wood goldems drop quarterstaves and paper golems drop blank scrolls and variant wax golems drop candles or something 18:31 [hdf-eu] [spl] parasite (Mon Orc Mal Cha), 3532 points, T:3246, killed by a grizzly bear 18:31 <@Loggers_VIII> Derek yu is a big NetHack fan 18:31 <@fredriq> wood golems should drop wooden shields 18:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] Numenorean (Arc Gno Fem Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:5338 18:32 <@Loggers_VIII> He even wanted to have a randomized consumable called mushrooms in spelunky that would behave like NH potions/scrolls but he didn’t have the time 18:34 I don't think an ID game would work well in Spelunky because it's too short 18:34 Derek Yu is also a big spelunky fan. The second and third games borrow *way* more from the previous games than you'd guess for a series, it's like he expects to sell them to players of the previous games by nostalgia, except they're also *really* good games so it's not just nostalgia. 18:35 <@fredriq> lol 18:35 when I watch the older spelunkies it's like you're playing spelunky with different graphics except it's some crazy variant where half of the monsters are in the wrong biome 18:35 or a randomzier 18:35 <@Loggers_VIII> lol yeah 18:35 spelunky HD looks like it's meant to be a remake of the original rather than a sequel 18:36 <@Loggers_VIII> content wise it’s a sequel 18:36 <@Loggers_VIII> but it’s strangely named 18:36 no, it's Spelunky 2 that's strangely named 18:36 <@Loggers_VIII> it’s more like the original game was a beta for spelunky hd 18:36 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:12511 18:36 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) performed her first genocide (disenchanters), on T:72971 (15:13:12) 18:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law) destroyed nabru's ghost, the former Plunderess, on T:6784 18:37 I guess it's also worth considering the possibility that at least one of the games is an expansion 18:37 a category that's rare nowadays but used to be really common 18:37 I guess expansions died out when DLC became popular 18:38 the only other game where I had this feeling is Metroid. it feels like they did a pretty good representation of as much of Super Metroid as was possible to put onto a NES cart of a size NES carts had. it's buggy, but many NES games are. 18:38 ah, so you interpret Metroid as a demake of Super Metroid 18:38 rather than the other way round 18:39 that makes some level of sense 18:39 wait, what's the difference between a DLC and an expansion in your definition? 18:39 yes, because I'm much more familiar with Super Metroid 18:39 <@fredriq> I see no difference, beyond the fact that dlc has to be downloadable 18:39 <@fredriq> because it is called "downloadable content" 18:39 it's an interesting philosophical issue 18:40 expansions generally are much coarser-grained 18:40 perhaps you consider very small expansions, which only add a few inconsequential things, DLCs too? 18:40 <@fredriq> MMOs still have expansions 18:40 with DLC you can sell individual sets of horse armor or whatever, whereas expansions normally increased the content of the game by 25% or so and were priced accordinglu 18:40 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 11574 points, T:5828, choked on a yeti corpse 18:40 and expansions generally used to be sold in shops, whereas DLC is online-only by definition 18:40 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41 I guess it's the coarse-grainedness that seems like the most relevant factor to me, though 18:41 most games would get one expansion a couple of years after release, and then nothing more ever 18:41 rather than DLC in small chunks every few months or years, some of which is often microtransactional 18:42 I consider DLCs as coarse-grinded too, because if it adds very few things then you can't really ask money for it, and also then you call it a patch or update rather than a free DLC 18:42 b_jonas: you must play much more respectable games than are common 18:42 yes 18:43 DLC is often nowadays "just buy this one single item" 18:43 not the microtransaction thingies 18:43 are those called DLC? 18:43 they're a subset of DLC, in theory 18:43 ok 18:43 but often just called microtransactions due to the difference in nature 18:44 fwiw, I don't consider 3.4.3 → 3.7 to be a big enough change to be on the level of an expansion; NetHack → Slash'EM or NetHack → dNetHack is more the level of change I'd expect from one of those 18:44 <@Loggers_VIII> I like indie games because indie devs have no sense of self worth and always release free DLC that could easily be sold for money 18:44 so eg. the buyable skins in Fortnite, would you call those DLCs? 18:45 b_jonas: yes 18:45 rld: not quite always... 18:45 <@Loggers_VIII> I think that could technically be considered dlc but people just say microtransaction because you have to draw a line somewhere between real content and, well, cosmetics 18:46 really it'd be nice to have some less general terms than "DLC" to cover the various aspects of it 18:46 ok, call them expansions then 18:46 but, game developers tend not to concentrate on downloadable content that can be neatly categorised, and you get it in all levels of granularity 18:46 Factorio calls their future paying DLC "expansion pack" 18:47 @Loggers_VIII: I suspect some indie devs have to release free DLC in order to make it look like the game will continue to be supported, increasing the number of people who buy the original 18:47 they don't have the sort of vast marketing networks that major games companies do 18:48 Microsoft used to ship demos of some of their games free with Windows – it's hard to match *that* sort of marketing reach 18:48 lol 18:49 I mean Nintendo does manage to advertise their free demos qutie well too, but I don't think they're shipped with consoles, they're just free to install from internet connection 18:49 What is the wrathful characteristic on a weapon? Is that attack anyone, like stormy? 18:49 In dnethack? 18:50 It adds damage when you kill the same type of monster multiple times 18:50 Yea, nvm, I found it in the wiki 18:50 Was worried that it was "attack peaceful" which would make it less useful to me 18:50 But it is really quite nice 18:50 that reminds me, why are some games *more expensive* in Europe now than in America? weren't price differences supposed to be going the other way? 18:51 they also add +1/4 damage per 1/4 HP lost, so deal more damage when you're at low HP 18:51 better than nothing but still not great 18:51 I was trying to look at some game for how much it costs, the website gave a price in dollars, then I logged in, and after that it showed a different price in euros that's the same number of euros as it said it was dollars 18:52 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) wished for "blessed fireproof +2 oilskin cloth elven helm", on T:72978 (15:16:23) 18:52 b_jonas: it used to be common to charge the same for a game in pounds sterling as in dollars 18:52 which makes it much more expensive in the UK 18:52 that might still be happening 18:52 ais523: exactly, but it's weird that it gives me a higher price after I log in 18:52 I wonder if that counts as fraud in Europe 18:52 [hdf-us] [nh343] docpi (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 12241 points, T:5904, killed by an ettin mummy 18:53 this reminds me of the time when it was discovered that some companies charge people different prices based on which browser they use 18:53 yes, twitch charges more for mobile phone users 18:54 Yes, stupid me, I should have followd my HP more attentively. 18:54 (for some things at least) 18:54 if they're charging through an app, that's likely due to the Apple/Google cut 18:54 perhaps 18:54 if you're buying on desktop then it's just Twitch and the payments company who have to be paid, but both Apple and Google take a percentage of money made via apps 18:54 this has caused a number of problems and controversies in the past and is fairly well known 18:55 I see 18:55 charging the same in multiple currencies is stupid 18:55 (the most famous incident got Fortnite banned from at least one major app store) 19:02 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Gladstone from Mines' End, on T:6337 (1:30:15) 19:05 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 19:07 -!- oh6 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 19:11 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) became literate by reading The Blacksmith's Cookbook, on T:9775 (4:17:52) 19:12 [hdf-us] [nh343] docpi (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 206 points, T:385, killed by a jackal 19:20 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered the Large Circular Dungeon, on T:7722 (1:48:47) 19:23 -!- phinxy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.5-dev] 19:23 hemmed in by two canines, and a grid bug. 19:23 -!- phinxy has joined #hardfought 19:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 796 points, T:3871, killed by a giant mimic 19:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law) was bestowed with Snickersnee by Quetzalcoatl, on T:9679 19:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:880 19:41 Quirky RNG today: A fountain, a sink, and an aligned altar, all in the first room at the beginning. 19:45 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:10163 (4:51:39) 19:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:2900 19:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Ana And Fem Neu), 14655 points, T:2929, quit 19:46 !lastgame 19:46 Noisytoot: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/K/Kame/dnethack/dumplog/1688945573.dnh.txt :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/p/parasite/splicehack/dumplog/1688938526.splice.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/O/Orcranger/hackem/dumplog/1688892750.hackem.html 19:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:672 19:46 chaosscumming 19:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:493 19:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:975 19:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1225 points, T:2360, killed by a crossbow bolt 19:56 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) was bestowed with Orcrist by Thoth, on T:9916 (2:24:55) 19:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:4020 20:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "2 holy charging", got "a scroll labeled YUM YUM", on T:13211 20:01 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 20:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "3 cursed genocide", got "a scroll labeled STRC PRST SKRZ KRK", on T:13213 20:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 125333 points, T:13214, quit 20:03 -!- fakepass has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 20:06 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 20:07 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) became Thoth's Envoy of Balance, on T:11027 (2:35:21) 20:07 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) was bestowed with a golden chest, on T:11027 (2:35:21) 20:09 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2332 (0:30:37) 20:09 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) destroyed Vecna, on T:75741 (16:33:28) 20:09 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 20:10 -!- oh6 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 20:12 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Mal Cha) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:2588 (0:33:41) 20:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Ana And Fem Neu), 44858 points, T:7230, killed by a Mordor orc elite, while frozen by a potion 20:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) found Sting on the floor, on T:3986 20:16 [hdf-us] [xnh] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 20:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] post163 (Nob Inc Fem Neu), 102 points, T:109, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 20:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:6, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 20:17 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 4 points, T:81, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 20:18 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Elf Mal Neu), 109 points, T:135, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 20:19 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Elf Mal Neu), 32 points, T:14, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 20:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law), 4893 points, T:6377, quit 20:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 878 points, T:4536, killed by a dwarf king 20:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 speed boots", got "a pair of hiking boots", on T:6163 20:21 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Geryon, on T:76406 (16:46:01) 20:22 [hdf-eu] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:12, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 20:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Dro-Rog Dro Fem Cha) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:640 20:22 [hdf-eu] [un] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 96 points, T:105, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 20:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Goran's ghost, the former Adept, on T:6624 20:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1660 20:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Dro-Rog Dro Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1928 20:28 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) genocided antimatter vortices, on T:76689 (16:52:40) 20:31 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "2 holy charging", got "2 scrolls labeled VAS CORP BET MANI", on T:6627 20:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Rog Dro Fem Cha), 10343 points, T:2846, killed by a dreadblossom swarm 20:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first artifact wish - "holy +2 excalibur", got "a long sword named Excalibur", on T:6629 20:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy greased bag of holding", got "a greased bag", on T:6630 20:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy +2 gray dragon scale mail", got "a gray dragon scale mail", on T:6634 20:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "holy 2 shield of reflection", got "a polished silver shield", on T:6635 20:35 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #hardfought 20:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:7767 20:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:4631 20:49 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Elf Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, killed by kicking a wall 20:53 [hdf-eu] [hackm] post163 (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of fire 20:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] Goran (Pri Hum Mal Neu) averted death (killed by a gnome lord), on T:1632 20:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] Goran (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 637 points, T:1651, killed by a gnome lord 20:54 K - a wand of wishing. 20:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:14051 20:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 7650 points, T:5645, killed by a Woodland-elf 20:57 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Orcus, on T:78543 (17:21:54) 20:57 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Lolth, on T:78548 (17:22:03) 20:57 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:78551 (17:22:07) 21:11 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Lolth, on T:41912 (4:06:04) 21:12 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 66548 points, T:12689, killed by a leocrotta 21:13 -!- Arseniy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:15 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Mal Law) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 dragonhide helm of speed", on T:42422 (4:10:31) 21:15 [hdf-us] [ndnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 1118 points, T:1357, killed by a small crossbow bolt 21:16 [hdf-us] [hackm] Frozty (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a silver dragon, on T:6362 (6:57:29) 21:18 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring an icosahedral amulet, on T:16624 (3:47:03) 21:19 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Bar Eth Mal Law) killed Bael, on T:53858 21:20 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Mal Law) killed Nebuchadnezzar, on T:43280 (4:15:48) 21:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) found Demonbane on the floor, on T:9992 21:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:3677 21:24 [hdf-us] [ndnh] bleeko (Bar Hum Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:29352 21:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) destroyed xororand the human mummy, and former Adept, on T:10336 21:25 [hdf-us] [hackm] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Mal Law) killed Xanathar, on T:43794 (4:20:23) 21:25 -!- docpi has quit [Quit: into thin air] 21:25 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Dro Mal Cha) had a pair of jumping boots entrusted to him by Kos, on T:5752 (1:05:36) 21:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) entered the Bigroom, on T:10699 21:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 434 points, T:767, killed by a hobbit 21:37 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Bar Eth Mal Law) killed Yeenoghu, on T:54279 21:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] poppyjams (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed Goran's ghost, the former Acolyte, on T:1331 21:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 995 points, T:1652, killed by a gnome lord, while sleeping 21:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:18755 21:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] poppyjams (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1315 points, T:1853, killed by a Mordor orc, while frozen by a floating eye's gaze 21:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:6759 21:43 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, acquiring an amulet of reflection, on T:14036 (6:50:00) 21:44 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3570 (0:37:27) 21:45 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the Gargantuan Mimic, on T:18584 (4:13:26) 21:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 4339 points, T:7315, killed by a fire ant 21:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Arc Hum Fem Law), 11075 points, T:19210, killed by tumbling down a flight of stairs 21:49 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu), 1991 points, T:4062, quit 21:56 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu), 318 points, T:822, killed by a cave spider, while fainted from lack of food 21:58 -!- cathartes has joined #hardfought 21:59 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Sam Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, acquiring an amulet of magic resistance, on T:5645 (1:51:46) 21:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1720 22:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 656 points, T:1927, killed by a gnome 22:08 -!- Bleeko has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2948 22:20 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu), 1199 points, T:2299, burned by molten lava 22:23 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought 22:23 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Bar Eth Mal Law) killed the invisible Graz'zt, on T:55249 22:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:13261 22:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Medicus ossium (level 14), on T:14114 22:26 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:5490 22:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:14381 22:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] jonosmalls88 (Mon Hum Mal Law) signified by divine providence, was chosen to carry Excalibur, on T:13151 22:34 -!- Guest71 has joined #hardfought 22:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 2785 points, T:5956, killed by a tengu 22:34 -!- Guest71 has quit [Client Quit] 22:36 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Bar Eth Mal Law) killed Glasya, on T:55699 22:37 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Bar Eth Mal Law) killed Daemon, on T:55719 22:39 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Bar Cen Mal Neu) killed Ruggo the Gnome King, on T:20712 (11:12:13) 22:41 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed the invisible Demogorgon, on T:80170 (18:12:10) 22:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of enchant armor", got "a scroll labeled TEMOV", on T:14821 22:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 1239 points, T:2206, killed by a gnome lord 22:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 hawaiian shirt", got "a Hawaiian shirt", on T:15304 22:52 [hdf-us] [nh343] stagnate (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:74794 22:52 [hdf-us] [nh343] stagnate (Val Dwa Fem Law) picked up the Bell of Opening, on T:74797 22:53 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] jonosmalls88 (Mon Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a mountain nymph, on T:14113 22:58 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 22:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:3509 23:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 422 points, T:1455, killed by a soldier ant 23:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Mon Hum Fem Cha) was given the Marauder's Map, on T:46763 23:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:3964 23:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 40 points, T:85, killed by a giant mimic 23:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Herbalist (level 18), on T:15777 23:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:15790 23:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Hea Hum Mal Neu) genocided class h, on T:15791 23:10 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:11 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 23:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:4523 23:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Bar Orc Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:35476 23:31 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3101 (1:10:13) 23:31 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Dark One, on T:21610 (6:00:05) 23:32 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:21610 (6:00:06) 23:37 -!- arahael_ has joined #hardfought 23:37 [hdf-us] [gnoll] elron (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) completed her quest without incident, on T:21931 (6:05:08) 23:42 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:3795 (1:21:00) 23:43 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Bar Cen Mal Neu) killed Thoth Amon, on T:22281 (12:13:57) 23:43 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Bar Cen Mal Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:22283 (12:14:17) 23:44 -!- arahael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:44 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:65508 (19:53:32) 23:46 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:3949 (1:25:06) 23:52 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Bar Cen Mal Neu) returned The Ring of P'hul to Pelias, completing his quest, on T:22580 (12:22:30) 23:57 [hdf-au] [hackm] Orcranger (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7133 (2:33:29) 23:58 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Rog Hob Fem Neu), 7505 points, T:4475, killed by a piranha