00:00 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Kni Cen Fem Cha) was sent a hezrou by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:7899 (2:57:18) 00:01 <@cpittman> I just fought a 10th Nazgul in fourk, but it still says I only defeated 10. I don't think it was polymorphed because it dropped a long sword and ring 00:10 -!- dingotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] guest99987 (Bin Hlf Fem Non) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:2978 00:22 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #hardfought 00:24 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:6902 00:24 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 10983 points, T:6921, killed by a water moccasin 00:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] guest99987 (Bin Hlf Fem Non), 18824 points, T:4682, killed by a xorn 00:35 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Kni Cen Fem Cha) polymorphed her first item, on T:9109 (3:32:34) 00:36 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) defeated the Wizard of Yendor, on T:55594 00:38 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Kni Cen Fem Cha) killed the Rat King, on T:9207 (3:35:23) 00:41 <@cpittman> "Status of the Wizard of Yendor (unaligned): Level 30 HP 91(87) Def 18." - How does he have more than max hp? 00:44 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:55811 00:44 cathartes: finished 2 sokos, no pet, starting to struggle to stay alive 00:44 there is an altar, maybe sacrifice 00:46 do the Mines, maybe? might get mithril from a hobbit, and maybe Minetown has something useful? 00:46 if you can kill a unicorn, the horn makes a good weapon too 00:47 cathartes: finished mines, nothing in minetown 00:48 then maybe it's sacrifice time; I usually do that after getting the luckstone 00:49 [hdf-us] [ndnh] technillogue (Ana Eth Fem Neu) killed the Grue, on T:11051 00:49 [hdf-us] [nh13d] UmberConductor (Valkyrie ### Fem ###) killed the ghost of , the former Valkyrie, on T:9549 00:50 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) defeated the high priestess of Moloch, on T:56093 00:52 cathartes: sorry no i haven't gone down to mines end, just to minetown 00:52 cathartes: but i did get a luckstone anyway on the ground 00:53 not much point in doing Mines' End then 00:53 cathartes: sacrificing is in the hopes of an artifact weapon right? 00:54 yeah, it'll be better than dagger/scalpel 00:54 could go for crowning too, though that probably takes longer 00:55 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 00:55 I can't believe how well I'm doing in this 00:56 <@cpittman> "Your potion of oil freezes and shatters!" - After stepping on a fire trap 00:58 coldfire 00:58 haven't even got tp from a floating eye 00:58 cpittman bugreport? 01:01 is there anything smarter to do than push a boulder around endlessly waiting for creatures to spawn near an altar? 01:01 <@cpittman> There's been a few weird things that happened in this game but nothing's been broken yet 01:02 wand of create monster/bag of tricks is helpful, otherwise it's waiting for monsters to spawn, mostly. 01:03 if you see a long worm, don't kill it 01:03 cathartes: why don't kill the long worm? 01:04 cathartes: yeah no wands/bags :( 01:04 hit the tail segments with a sharp weapon in the hopes of splitting it, so you can farm it 01:04 you can heal the long worm so it doesn't die 01:05 the long worm will get longer if you let it run around after cutting off its tail 01:06 so you can get an infinite supply of long worms for sacrifices and food like that, if you're lucky enough to get a long worm on your altar level 01:07 <@cpittman> How do you heal it? 01:07 if you're a healer, you cast healing at it 01:07 cpittman i'm a healer :) 01:08 a -3 knife is good for farming long worms 01:08 good for splitting them without doing too much damage 01:09 Unluckily, you feel the power of Hermes decrease. :( 01:09 <@cpittman> Wait, you're telling me they have spells in this game?! (I only play barbarians, monks, samurai, and valkyrie) 01:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] Numenorean (Arc Hum Fem Neu), 118 points, T:900, killed by a dwarf zombie 01:11 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Kni Cen Fem Cha) killed Ruggo the Gnome King, on T:10024 (4:08:17) 01:13 finally, woodland elf got me down to -1AC 01:14 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 01:14 the good thing about mithril is that you can take it off in 1 turn, so you can still heal yourself quickly 01:16 cathartes: still haven't found any mithril. found silver elven ring mail though 01:16 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed the eye of the aethiopica", on T:25651 (10:09:35) 01:20 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:26079 (10:12:58) 01:21 [hdf-us] [evil] Aeon (Val Hum Fem Law), 4 points, T:63, burned by molten lava 01:21 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) reached the Plane of Earth, on T:57946 01:26 i can't even altar camp properly. i'm getting ambushed by fire ants and soldier ants and too weak to hold them off 01:28 that's not "altar camping wrong", that's just one of the dangers of waiting for monsters 01:28 sometimes you get monsters 01:28 like ants 01:28 well i got a dog. woohoo 01:29 You kill the fire ant! You see here a potion called oil. 01:30 sneaky ants 01:35 <@cpittman> Is magic mapping any use in the planes? 01:36 <@shadow_rider> not much 01:37 <@shadow_rider> you can use it on water to show bubbles but they move 01:37 <@shadow_rider> you can use it on earth to find the little pockets if you dont have portal detection or something 01:38 <@cpittman> I found the portal on earth and taking the opportunity to clean out the bag of holding so I'm not burdened 01:38 mapping could be useful on water to show the portal location if you already detected it 01:39 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 251 points, T:364, killed by a silver arrow 01:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] arthur (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) destroyed samiam's ghost, the former Conjurer, on T:3445 01:46 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:904 (0:06:35) 01:46 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 616 points, T:906, killed by a piranha 01:46 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:58139 01:46 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 44 points, T:73, killed by a falling rock 01:50 <@cpittman> Genociding pretty much everything was a terrible idea 01:53 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:58175 01:53 I could've told you that! 01:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] arthur (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) found Vorpal Blade in a shop, on T:4192 01:55 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of remove curse", on T:58193 01:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) murdered his faithful kitten, on T:566 01:58 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 01:58 <@cpittman> Not sure if I'm going to make it out of this one. Half the map is angels and the other half is purple worms 01:58 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had an axe entrusted to her by Odin, on T:834 (0:04:19) 02:00 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:58222 02:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 600 points, T:1050, killed by a dwarf 02:01 <@cpittman> Good news is purple worms are extinct so I just have to make it to the exit 02:03 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:1423 (0:09:42) 02:04 summon nasties doesn't respect extinction, so if those worms are from that spell, extinction won't help you (unless 4k changed it) 02:06 <@cpittman> That's what I was just about to ask, because it says I've killed 231 couatls 02:06 -!- Guest48 has quit [Quit: Client closed] 02:06 <@cpittman> and 161 purple worms 02:07 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 771 points, T:1254, killed by a giant bat, while praying 02:08 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed wand of teleportation", on T:58261 02:12 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2372 (0:18:18) 02:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] arthur (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:6334 02:15 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:2613 (0:22:03) 02:16 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:58338 02:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] arthur (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 2882 points, T:6412, killed by a dingo 02:17 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 297524 points, T:28550, killed by falling down a mine shaft 02:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] flandre (Sam Hum Fem Law), 593 points, T:1237, killed by a soldier ant 02:21 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:58383 02:24 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:58411 02:27 <@cpittman> I started making progress after remembering I had Stormbringer 02:27 <@cpittman> Grayswandir wasn't doing much against a bunch of angels 02:30 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:58542 02:32 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:58571 02:33 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:58590 02:33 <@cpittman> That was the last one. Going to die here 02:34 rip 02:34 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) genocided class m, on T:42464 02:36 <@cpittman> Almost made it 02:37 <@Loggers_VIII> rip 02:37 <@cpittman> Might have made it if I remembered stormbringer earlier 02:37 wow, 10 AoLS burned 02:37 <@joes5898> !tell ais523 there’s too much food in the game. The beginning is very luck-based, later it evens out. Maybe scale frequency inversely with depth (later=rarer)? 02:37 I'm on it, @joes5898. 02:38 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 37500 points, T:58646, killed by an iron golem (with the Amulet) 02:38 was this a "genocide everything" pseudo-conduct attempt or what? 02:38 <@cpittman> No, I just found a bunch of scrolls of genocide and tried to finish it off 02:39 <@cpittman> Only missing: i, k, l, r, u, B, G (not counting @ or o, since I was an orc) 02:40 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Orcus, on T:42493 02:41 <@cpittman> !lastgame 02:41 @cpittman: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/c/cpittman/nhfourk/dumps/2023-07-03%2006%3A38%3A02%2C%20cpittman-Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha%2C%20died.txt :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nmlkj/nethack/dumplog/1688364068.nh.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Arahael/evilhack/dumplog/1688208836.evil.html 02:42 <@cpittman> "You are dead (11th time!)." - Also found a bunch of amulets 😄 02:43 maybe you would have made it if you had a few more 02:43 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Kni Cen Fem Cha), 95918 points, T:12655, killed by a troll 02:43 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Baalzebub, on T:42519 02:43 <@cpittman> 3 or 4 more would've lasted me to the portal 02:43 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) murdered Beauty, his faithful pit fiend, on T:42522 02:44 and then you would have to face plane of fire? 02:46 <@cpittman> True 02:46 and more archons on plane of fire, probably 02:49 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Asmodeus, on T:42539 02:52 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:52 <@joes5898> Oracle is neutral, like animals 02:56 cpittman aaah rip :( 02:56 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 02:56 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:3674 (1:02:37) 02:58 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2360 points, T:2545, killed by a jaguar, while praying 02:58 -!- fakepass has joined #hardfought 02:59 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 189 points, T:690, killed by a brown mold 03:01 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had a pair of fencing gloves entrusted to her by Odin, on T:4137 (1:07:48) 03:02 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) used a helm to turn lawful, on T:676 03:08 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Mon Hum Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class a), on T:23704 03:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2400 03:13 [hdf-eu] [xnh] wvc (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 385 points, T:1152, killed by a jackal, while praying 03:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) destroyed theworstmau's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:4847 03:23 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) found Sunsword on the floor, on T:43330 03:26 [hdf-us] [hackm] Umbire (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) destroyed goupaloupa's ghost, the former Pillager, on T:2976 (0:55:37) 03:29 [hdf-eu] [xnh] breadmaster (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:7317 03:33 -!- cathartes has quit [Quit: fly away] 03:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] vor (Mon Hum Fem Cha) attained the rank of Student of Waters (level 14), on T:24776 03:36 -!- anselmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 9154 points, T:7760, killed by a wraith 03:56 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Giantslayer by Thoth, on T:43960 03:58 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) entered the Sokoban zoo, on T:4897 04:09 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 04:13 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:16 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) received advice from The Oracle, on T:5336 04:40 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 04:51 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) entered the Minetown temple, on T:6948 05:50 if i sacrifice and get no message, does that mean i potentially could've gotten a gift but didn't? 05:54 <@cpittman> That's probably the worse way to find out your god's just not that into you. 05:54 <@cpittman> *worst 05:57 You mean nothing besides "Your sacrifice is consumed" etc. etc.? 06:02 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:1947 06:02 Umbire: yep nothing apart from sacrifice is consumed 06:03 That just means your sacrifice went through, that's it 06:04 Sacrifice done, god's not angry, Luck not increased 06:04 Umbire: doesn't mean it rolled a 1/10 chance of getting a gift? 06:04 No. 06:04 i don't need luck to increase to be eligible for the chance right 06:04 If you rolled that, you'd get the gift. 06:04 Uh, that idk 06:04 Umbire: no i mean it rolled but failed to get the gift 06:07 Basically? 06:07 * Umbire shrugs 06:07 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3320 06:07 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 4535 points, T:3323, killed by a leocrotta 06:08 i like to keep track of how many times the RNG has failed to give me a gift 06:18 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed Gollum, on T:1253 (0:06:00) 06:20 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1545 (0:07:40) 06:24 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 2152 points, T:1972, killed by a rothe, while reading a book 06:28 -!- froggles has joined #hardfought 06:32 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:2059 (0:08:39) 06:33 <@cpittman> Got lucky, bag of holding and reflection before hitting gnome town 06:33 <@cpittman> I was half expecting a magic lamp in the light shop 06:34 nice 06:37 !PoM 06:37 APic: The moon is full for 3 more days. 06:39 Amulet of reflection? 06:41 How do people altar camp so long? Ive been through 4k turns with only 7 sacrifices (excluding sacrifices when prayer timeout not reached) and almost out of food (been praying when weak) 06:41 <@cpittman> Yeah, just a random amulet lying on the floor 06:42 I usually do it with a bunch of create monsters sources 06:42 though yes I also grab like a fuckton of food when doing so 06:50 slow digestion ring also helps a lot if you are lucky enough to find one 06:50 you learn through experience when altar camping just becomes to risky for your food situation 06:51 * too 06:53 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha) reached the bottom of the Mines, on T:8656 06:53 <@cpittman> More good luck, the first boots I found was water walking and mines end seems to be a swamp 06:56 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 16977 points, T:8793, drowned in a moat by an electric eel 06:56 <@cpittman> Whoops 06:56 And out it runs 06:57 Speaking of dead barbs and water walking boots I should uncurse mine in Hack'EM before I go to Mines 06:57 <@cpittman> I got careless, cleaving through everything, thought I could take out both eels 06:59 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of lightning 06:59 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Hob Mal Neu), 16 points, T:10, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 06:59 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Hum Mal Law), 99 points, T:23, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 07:00 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Hum Nbn Law), 98 points, T:77, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 07:00 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Wiz Hum Nbn Neu) performed their first annihilation (humans), on T:1 07:02 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Hum Mal Law) became pious, on T:493 07:04 -!- Pinkbeast has quit [Server closed connection] 07:04 -!- Pinkbeast has joined #hardfought 07:19 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 07:20 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 07:24 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:25 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 07:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 168 points, T:709, killed by a fox 07:26 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Cha), 8963 points, T:2924, killed by a legion devil grunt 07:31 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Wiz Hum Nbn Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of annihilation 07:33 [hdf-eu] [ace] Leeroy (Val Hum Fem Law), 24858 points, T:346, quit 07:33 [hdf-eu] [ace] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of lightning 07:39 @v? troll 07:39 ais523: Message from @joes5898 at 2023-07-03 02:37 EDT: there’s too much food in the game. The beginning is very luck-based, later it evens out. Maybe scale frequency inversely with depth (later=rarer)? 07:39 troll (T) | Lvl: 7 | Diff: 9 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 0 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 4 | Atk: 4d2 weapon physical, 4d2 claw physical, 2d6 bite physical | Align: -3 | genocidable, carnivore, regen, stalker, infravis 07:39 @v? soldier 07:39 soldier (@) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 10 | Res: none | Confer: nothing | MR: 0 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 10 | Atk: 1d8 weapon physical | Align: -2 | genocidable, omnivore, nopoly, stalker, infravis 07:40 OK, so monsters with a "diff" of 8 or higher and a "weapon" attack, except for ettins, skeletons, iron golems and Kops, have a 1/35 chance of spawning with a wand of death 07:41 basically 07:41 and as of 3.6, this sort of monster will generally start generating before you can get the Sokoban amulet 07:41 what's up, there a reason you-- ah 07:41 this explains a number of surprising instadeaths I've had recently 07:41 true but even then you have to get ultra unlucky with the wand actually generating 07:41 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 07:41 1/35 isn't ultra unlucky 07:41 feels that way 07:41 hi mobile 07:41 I thought the odds were more like 1/1000 because the monster had to find the wand on the ground 07:42 heya 07:42 yeah sometimes they just get the wand straight up 07:43 is there a reliable way to protect yourself against wands of death before you reach a dl/xl average of 8? or do players just hope to dodge the instadeath? 07:43 but I've not had that many runins with the wand till much later than that point 07:43 it happened twice to me within a week, which seemed statistically implausible, but it turned out I was just underestimating the chances 07:43 yeah 07:44 this does seem like a balance issue – we basically have a "depth/resistance" situation except that the only realistic way to get the resistance by the given depth is to grind 07:45 say you're XL 8, which is common in the first third of the game, you basically have to grind on dlvl 7 or higher, that's only a very small portion of the game that might not necessarily even cover Minetown 07:45 and it's tough tits if Soko is deep that game 07:45 I see what you mean 07:45 3.4.3 doesn't have this problem because difficulty in Sokoban counts backwards there due to a bug, which greatly reduces the number of difficulty 8+ monsters you encounter 07:47 also, I think MR, reflection, unliving, and "oLS are the *only* protections against this, right? saving grace doesn't work, nor does hallucination (which only protects against touches of death) 07:47 demonhood also 07:47 ah yes 07:48 that might actually be a decent solution, but in practice it requires a source of polycontrol which is hard to identify that shallow, and polytraps don't generate until dlvl 8 07:48 …and you would likely also need unchanging to benefit 07:49 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Hum Mal Law) received advice from The Oracle, on T:3131 07:49 correct 07:50 just noting that it does protect 07:52 I guess vampire lord would be the best polyform for dodging wand of death instadeaths, it's one of the best polyforms in general anyway 07:53 and in particular has very few downsides, apart from the bite attack 07:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:3517 07:58 speaking of I didn't notice out of depth statue traps and figurines were intentional 07:58 that's a wrench and a half 08:01 I kind-of like that? (although it wasn't my idea) 08:01 you have quite a few opportunities to avoid them, and out-of-depth monsters in small quantities are often interesting to fight 08:01 I've had fun memories dealing with minesflayers, for example 08:01 yeah it's not a bad idea but it does mean hairier close calls 08:02 NetHack could do with more hairy close calls, as long as the player is given a reasonable chance to prevent them turning into actual deaths 08:02 escaping a water demon feels good I admit 08:02 [hdf-au] [xnh] Moult (Hea Gno Mal Neu) acquired the Sokoban amulet of reflection, on T:19510 08:03 once, in my local copy, I patched the source code so that dlvl 1 would be at difficulty 6 (i.e. the equivalent of dlvl 11 given I was xlvl 1), to see what would happen 08:03 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 08:03 I died a lot, but mostly due to lack of max HP, and on the occasions where I killed one monster I was generally able to snowball and kill a lot more 08:04 [hdf-eu] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hob Mal Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of lightning 08:04 (and then, of course, there was the "starting wizard in melee against a horde of lemures", which is winnable for the wizard if they don't get too overconfident and aren't surrounded) 08:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] hatlessfool (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 3030 points, T:2553, killed by a kobold lady 08:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 6828 points, T:5496, killed by an owlbear 08:05 ais523: i think you mean "involuntary close calls" 08:05 ais523: there are plenty of voluntary close calls :) 08:05 lemures are just slightly stronger manes in practice aren't they 08:05 Moult[m]: actually, even the ones due to player stupidity are often fun 08:05 Umbire: yes 08:06 my last junethack win was in 3.6.7 which doesn't have paranoid_swim 08:06 and during Gehennom and the asc run I managed to blank pretty much all my scrolls and potions 08:06 leaving me with no relevant scrolls or potions for the Planes other than one diluted potion of full healing 08:06 i added the out-of-depth figurines because figurines were basically never used - but if you happen to get a powerful one early ... 08:07 that said, that game really *shouldn't* have been able to do more than one altar, with only -22 AC, the Orb of Fate, and one diluted !oFH 08:07 but I did all three because conflict is still broken 08:07 in 3.6.7 08:08 (went without conflict up to the first altar, then put it on because it was clearly necessary, and my natural HP regeneration beat the monsters' attacks) 08:08 because most of them weren't attacking you as much 08:08 naturally 08:10 I think the correct fix is for conflict to not cause monsters that are adjacent to you to attack each other? 08:10 like, if the monster is adjacent, the only effect of conflict should be to make them target you, and they fight each other only when more distant 08:11 that way it still works offensively, but can't be used as a method of preventing yourself being melee attacked 08:11 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Hum Mal Law), 9735 points, T:3976, killed by a forest centaur 08:12 [hdf-eu] [xnh] breadmaster (Sam Hum Fem Law) polymorphed her first item, on T:8041 08:14 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Hum Mal Law) became pious, on T:466 08:18 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 08:21 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) wished for "uncursed magic marker", got "a magic marker", on T:45308 08:22 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Hum Mal Law) received advice from The Oracle, on T:1162 08:26 -!- nurdglaw has joined #hardfought 08:27 -!- Tangles has quit [Server closed connection] 08:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nurdglaw (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 17073 points, T:16540, killed by a flesh golem 08:27 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought 08:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ 08:29 'lo 08:35 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Umbire zaps a wand of digging!] 08:39 -!- nurdglaw has quit [Quit: Client closed] 08:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed magic marker", got "a magic marker", on T:40034 08:42 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Dragonbane by Thoth, on T:45438 08:44 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 08:44 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 08:46 [hdf-eu] [xnh] breadmaster (Sam Hum Fem Law), 27219 points, T:8351, killed by an owlbear 08:51 -!- Bleeko has joined #hardfought 08:51 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 08:55 mobileuser: watching your game saved me just now. I saw as you finished soko and used a wand of sleep on a leocrotta. 08:56 Exact same thing just happened: leocrotta in the soko zoo, and wand of sleep saved me :) 08:57 I think it's a good thing that escape items are commonly usable/required in the first third of the game (but there may be a balance issue in that not enough of them generate) 09:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu) averted death (killed by a rothe), on T:2334 09:05 Moult excellent! 09:07 yeah RNG often likes to throw in a leocrotta or mumak surprise in soko :-) 09:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "Blessed Amulet of life saving", got "a circular amulet", on T:40755 09:12 -!- terrapin has quit [Quit: Cheers!] 09:16 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had a pair of cloth low boots entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:28625 (7:53:40) 09:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", got "2 scrolls of charging", on T:40963 09:18 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 351 points, T:803, withered away 09:21 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Fire Brand by Thoth, on T:45733 09:23 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had a javelin entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:29218 (8:00:29) 09:23 -!- mariari has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:25 [hdf-eu] [nh370] hatlessfool (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) murdered her faithful jackal, on T:3164 09:25 [hdf-eu] [nh370] hatlessfool (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) murdered her faithful jackal, on T:3164 09:25 [hdf-eu] [nh370] hatlessfool (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) murdered her faithful coyote, on T:3164 09:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:32666 09:26 -!- mariari has joined #hardfought 09:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:32672 09:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) genocided class h, on T:32672 09:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) genocided class R, on T:32673 09:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1093 09:28 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Hum Mal Law) entered the Sokoban zoo, on T:2999 09:31 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 09:32 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 09:33 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 09:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed Juiblex, on T:41300 09:39 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Pir Hum Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1300 09:39 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 09:39 ais523: yeah its actually good game design 09:40 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Journeyer (level 18), on T:33270 09:41 mobileuser: I will never forget 09:41 Just like when @post163 told me about throwing a food ration to pacify horses that's also saved me multiple times 09:41 Thank you @post163 and mobileuser 09:44 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:5558 (0:49:28) 09:45 <@post163> !who 09:45 @post163: [hdf-us] Tormuse [nh370] rancat [nh370] Cropper [nh370] Nunnullus [nh370] nabru [nh370] bismatum [un] Kame [dnh] cpittman [4k] shadowcat [spl] Grouchy [evil] xialg [evil] hothraxxa [hackm] :: [hdf-eu] hatlessfool [nh370] Superfly [nh370] Leeroy [dnh] Vis [dnh] :: [hdf-au] Grasshopper [nh370] 09:47 [hdf-us] [spl] shadowcat (Bar Inf Fem Cha), 1049 points, T:1901, taken down by a kobold mummy, while reading a book 09:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:1747 09:53 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Gollum, on T:6259 (0:58:42) 09:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Geryon, on T:42222 09:53 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 3927 points, T:6281, killed by a piranha 09:55 [hdf-us] [spl] shadowcat (Bar Inf Fem Cha), 456 points, T:1465, offed by a giant fly 09:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:42329 09:56 morning 09:56 afternoon K2 09:58 -!- cathartes has joined #hardfought 09:59 good morning 09:59 its 4th of july party mode for me already. had ice cream for breakfast 10:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) bribed Asmodeus with 200 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:33776 10:01 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 10:04 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Cha) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:3450 10:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:4446 10:07 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Cha), 25472 points, T:3815, killed by an ogre king 10:08 -!- Menchers has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:11 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 10:11 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a xorn, on T:46277 10:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:43183 10:13 <@post163> morning K2 10:14 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 10:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:5862 10:16 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) changed form for the first time, becoming an arch-lich, on T:4968 (0:36:15) 10:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3253 10:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 879 points, T:2247, killed by a gnome 10:26 heya @post163 10:27 @v? winter wolf cub 10:27 winter wolf cub (d) | Lvl: 5 | Diff: 7 | Spd: 12 | Res: cold | Confer: cold | MR: 0 | Gen: dungeons | AC: 4 | Atk: 1d8 bite physical, 1d6 breath cold | Align: -5 | genocidable, carnivore 10:29 hmm, what's the shallowest common scroll-destroying attack? I think winter wolf cubs are common for destroying potions 10:29 fire ant? 10:29 red naga breath? 10:30 magic trap fire trap effect? 10:30 fire chest explosion 10:30 well not explosion but pillar 10:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:44287 10:30 <@post163> hostile with a wand of fire 10:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:44288 10:30 post163 with a wand of fire vs himself :P 10:30 red nagas are deep I think 10:30 @v? red naga 10:30 red naga (N) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire poison | Confer: fire poison | MR: 0 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 4 | Atk: 2d4 bite physical, 2d6 breath fire | Align: -4 | genocidable, omnivore, thick hide, oviparous, infravis 10:30 8, so not *that* deep 10:30 @v?fire ant 10:30 fire ant (a) | Lvl: 3 | Diff: 6 | Spd: 18 | Res: fire | Confer: fire | MR: 10 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 3 | Atk: 2d4 bite physical, 2d4 bite fire | Align: 0 | genocidable, carnivore, oviparous, infravis, passes-bars 10:31 wow those are fast 10:31 I thought they were slower 10:31 they are so mean 10:31 they are lvl:3 which means you can often kill them before they get an attack off 10:31 early game is all about tohit 10:32 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:4542 (0:37:49) 10:32 -!- Menchers has joined #hardfought 10:32 <@post163> Ants can be quite difficult to hit - even if they can be fought 1 at a time I have problems dealing with them at very low XLs. 10:32 this is a major benefit of early Excalibur: you can kill the fire ants in time 10:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) genocided disenchanters, on T:44441 10:33 but in 3.7, only Knights can do that reliably 10:33 @post163: gaining hit% is one of the primary reasons to level up in the early game 10:33 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:4780 (0:39:16) 10:33 I think most players will level up either themself or their pet, partly for that reason 10:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] Flench (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2490 points, T:3758, killed by a land mine 10:34 <@post163> I probably let my pet do too much leveling (while I only kill 1 monster for alignment record purposes). 10:34 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Rat King, on T:7039 (0:54:25) 10:34 can gnomish wizard cast fire ball in vanilla? 10:34 fire ball isn't a monster spell in vanilla, I think 10:34 in evilhack they are a major cause of stuff burning early game... 10:35 There's code for a fireball-like monster spell but no monster has it. 10:35 Like asmodeus's cold spell but fire. 10:35 @v?flaming sphere 10:35 flaming sphere (e) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 9 | Spd: 13 | Res: fire | Confer: fire | MR: 0 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 4 | Atk: 4d6 explode fire | Align: 0 | genocidable, flies, breathless, mindless, infravis 10:35 ok diff 9 10:35 @v? shocking sphere 10:35 shocking sphere (e) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 10 | Spd: 13 | Res: shock | Confer: shock | MR: 0 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 4 | Atk: 4d6 explode shock | Align: 0 | genocidable, flies, breathless, mindless, infravis 10:36 <@post163> @? freezing sphere 10:36 freezing sphere (e) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 9 | Spd: 13 | Res: cold | Confer: cold | MR: 0 | Gen: dungeons | AC: 4 | Atk: 4d6 explode cold | Align: 0 | genocidable, flies, breathless, mindless, infravis 10:36 see, this is why wands are the best item class 10:36 as escape items 10:36 they are light, can be used multiple times, and generally more powerful/effective than scrolls or potions 10:36 <@post163> Just be careful of the rebound. 10:36 spells are best 10:36 nah tools are the best 10:36 (valk orb) 10:36 only mind flayers can interfere with spells 10:36 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7564 (0:57:01) 10:36 confusion 10:37 blocks castinf 10:37 or amulets (eye of the aethiopica) 10:37 @v?pyrolisk 10:37 pyrolisk (c) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 6 | Res: fire poison | Confer: fire poison | MR: 30 | Gen: gehennom dungeons | AC: 6 | Atk: 2d6 gaze fire, 1d6 bite physical | Align: 0 | genocidable, omnivore, oviparous, infravis 10:38 do people invoke that as an escape often? 10:38 sure, branchport out 10:38 I know it can be used that way, and I've done that myself 10:38 dunno about "often" 10:38 just wasn't sure how often it actually is 10:38 I use it when I need to escape 10:38 beware of followers 10:38 yeah 10:39 there are times the game needs to stop 10:39 and turn into a chess puzzle 10:39 people like to play fast through those points and die 10:39 or do end up stopping in an even worse chess puzzle 10:39 <@post163> Also beware of the blast (if applicable) and don't wait until too low hp. 10:41 oh right, the fire ant attack gets blocked by MC 10:41 that's why I didn't see it come up more often 10:41 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Neu) was given the Lifehunt Scythe, on T:8013 10:42 in 3.6 getting past MC1 is harder 10:42 and the mc blockage is lower 10:42 yes; "didn't" was in the past tense for a reason 10:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 435 points, T:1137, killed by a sewer rat 10:45 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) found Snickersnee carried by a monster, on T:929 10:49 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:5080 (0:42:31) 10:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:1784 10:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] stoicjin (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:34048 10:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Hdf-Nob Hlf Fem Neu) was given the Holy Moonlight Sword, on T:9058 10:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:3133 10:56 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 4762 points, T:5335, killed by an enormous rat 10:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 39 points, T:167, poisoned by a dart 10:57 -!- Sgeo has joined #hardfought 10:58 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Pir Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:13193 10:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) destroyed hatlessfool's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:4452 11:01 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) entered Sokoban, on T:3183 11:04 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) became literate by engraving "abc", on T:3515 11:04 -!- K2 has quit [Server closed connection] 11:04 -!- K2 has joined #hardfought 11:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o K2] by ChanServ 11:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:4355 11:07 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1652 points, T:3169, killed by a bolt of cold played by a kobold 11:07 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) destroyed karibou's ghost, the former Heathen, on T:1752 (0:10:46) 11:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed +3 gold dragon scale mail", got "a blessed gold dragon scale mail", on T:4943 11:09 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Pir Hum Mal Neu) was given the Marauder's Map, on T:14729 11:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 7364 points, T:4715, killed by a soldier ant 11:09 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nmlkj (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 317 points, T:602, killed by an arrow 11:09 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) rejected atheism by offering giant ant corpses on an altar of Anhur, on T:12813 (1:29:58) 11:10 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1568 11:10 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 2254 points, T:4310, killed by a black unicorn 11:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Nob Hlf Fem Neu), 170518 points, T:10953, petrified by a chickatrice 11:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] Flench (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:3401 11:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:34351 11:16 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 16876 points, T:13530, killed by an energy vortex 11:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] stoicjin (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:35658 11:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] stoicjin (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:35724 11:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Tou Hum Mal Neu) bribed Baalzebub with 200 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:34772 11:23 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Wizard (level 26), on T:46775 11:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] Flench (Sam Hum Fem Law), 10722 points, T:3895, killed by an orc-captain 11:26 -!- dingotron has joined #hardfought 11:28 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 11:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 3905 points, T:2440, killed by a dwarf lady 11:32 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed Gollum, on T:1130 (0:04:28) 11:32 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:35 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1709 (0:07:14) 11:35 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:37 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:4306 (0:40:18) 11:38 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 11:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:6299 11:42 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had a dwarvish bearded axe entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:33284 (8:46:50) 11:42 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 11:42 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 4988 points, T:3235, killed by an enormous rat 11:43 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 2198 points, T:4234, killed by a winter wolf cub 11:44 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) became literate by reading a book, on T:3005 11:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] inlawBiker (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2718 11:48 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1212 (0:05:16) 11:48 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:5218 (0:51:45) 11:50 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 11:54 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 11:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] inlawBiker (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) destroyed Flench's ghost, the former Fighter, on T:3650 11:54 [hdf-us] [spl] shadowcat (Bar Inf Fem Cha), 87 points, T:359, slaughtered by a small mimic 11:55 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:50801 (1 day, 13:38:07) 11:55 -!- ais523 has quit [Client Quit] 11:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] inlawBiker (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 3873 points, T:3806, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted white unicorn 11:56 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 11:56 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:5523 11:57 [hdf-us] [spl] shadowcat (Bar Inf Fem Cha) murdered Taffy, her faithful kitten, on T:721 11:58 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law), 543725 points, T:50898, fell to her death 11:59 [hdf-eu] [nh370] thorsb (Mon Hum Fem Law), 161 points, T:625, killed by a gas cloud 12:01 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 5216 points, T:3442, killed by a tengu 12:03 [hdf-us] [spl] shadowcat (Bar Inf Fem Cha), 906 points, T:1765, offed by a kitten 12:06 [hdf-us] [hackm] willisllama (Nec Orc Mal Cha), 2970 points, T:3076, killed by a baby white dragon 12:07 [hdf-us] [hackm] willisllama (Nec Orc Mal Cha), 62 points, T:126, killed by a sewer rat 12:07 -!- malor__ has joined #hardfought 12:07 [hdf-us] [hackm] willisllama (Nec Orc Mal Cha) performed his first annihilation (water moccasins), on T:1 (0:00:22) 12:08 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:3991 12:09 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] NetSysFire (Acu Inc Fem Law), 34052 points, T:6218, quit 12:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 9100 points, T:11960, killed by a leocrotta 12:14 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 440 points, T:1091, killed by a rabid rabbit 12:15 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:20 -!- dingotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:21 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:47693 12:21 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:47696 12:21 [hdf-eu] [xnh] DeVoid (Pri Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:13423 12:23 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 12:25 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:47735 12:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 1325 points, T:2913, quit 12:30 <@fredriq> honestly I think MC was a mistake 12:31 <@fredriq> it makes a large amount of attacks completely irrelevant 12:31 <@fredriq> at least 3.6+ makes it less foolproof 12:31 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 6223 points, T:7928, killed by an exploding wand 12:32 <@fredriq> what is an "annihilation"? 12:34 -!- crunchbubba has quit [Quit: Client closed] 12:34 <@fredriq> how do I fix the symset in gnollhack? 12:35 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:35 -!- eggandhull has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:37 genocide but less scary sounding 12:40 -!- crunchbubba has joined #hardfought 12:40 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:10459 12:41 Hey, speaking of geno, I was playing a variant (xnh? slashthem?) and when I went to geno lichs, some of them resisted. Did it twice and never got them all. Is that a factor of monster MR or is there another mechanism at work there? 12:41 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:5258 12:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1530 12:44 slashthem checks MR on blessed genocide 12:45 But uncursed is sure thing? 12:45 <@fredriq> YANI: To prevent making a large assortment of status recovery items completely pointless, make unihorns only capable of healing fatal illness 12:49 how will confusion, nausea, stunning, hallu. becured? 12:49 how am i gonna find my res abil pot if im tripping balls? 12:49 Yea, why not just remove the useless status recovery items instead. 12:50 removing the unicorn horn. 12:50 NetHack doesn't have that many pure status recovery items 12:50 [hdf-us] [xnh] Gouhan (Sam Hum Mal Law), 11478 points, T:11711, killed by a tiger 12:50 cure blindness and cure sickness spell 12:50 e.g. carrot = blindness recovery + nutrition, or sickness = hallu recovery + ability loss 12:51 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law), 928 points, T:974, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted giant spider 12:52 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:48025 12:52 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:48026 12:53 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Leeroy (Mon Hlf Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1572 12:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) was bestowed with Demonbane by Loki, on T:7537 12:55 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) had a silver two-handed sword entrusted to her by Mog, on T:43432 (14:47:02) 12:56 If the RNG is kind enough to give you one. So if you go down that road, you need to add carrot-crafting recipes so as not to RNG bone everyone. And then people will be hoarding fruit juice to make sickness like holy water. 12:57 <@fredriq> @ais523 Basic (non-full) healing potions, cure blindness as mentioned, lizard corpse, confuse monster (it can unconfuse)... plenty 12:57 @fredriq: my point is that most of those items do other things too 12:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:46097 12:58 (well, lizard corpses primarily just cure status but they can cure one specific status that unihorns don't, and it's kind-of important) 12:58 lizard corpses also give new moon resistance against trices for some reason 12:59 not in 3.7? 12:59 <@fredriq> @ais523 I'm not saying "make things that only cure one thing", but rather that unihorns currently renders a large bunch of interactions pointless 13:00 <@fredriq> and it'd be interesting if players were incentivized to use other means of healing status 13:00 well, i wanted to nerf unihorn even harder, but some people were crying about it 13:00 how harder? 13:01 <@fredriq> idk what 3.7 does to unihorns, but I personally just removed the attribute restoration aspect, and made uncursed ones far more unreliable. Also, blessed ones turn uncursed sometimes 13:01 Now make lizard corpses rot 13:01 3.7 also just removed the attribute restoration aspect, and I think didn't do anything else 13:01 ^ 13:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 2338 points, T:5093, killed by a mumak calf zombie 13:01 <@fredriq> I suppose this is pretty much enough; you can, if you want to, limit your use of unhihorns to cure only the truly dangerous stuff (illness) and use other items to cure other stuff if you want 13:01 the whole lizard corpse / trice thing is intended for unspoiled players I think 13:02 And make armor enchantment slowly time out. Say 2000 turns per point. 13:02 ?oEA *is* a balance issue but I don't think that suggestion would fix it 13:02 and 2000 turns per point is fairly fast 13:02 <@fredriq> IMO the vanilla unihorn curing code is unnecessarily complex for what basically amounts to "make it unreliable" 13:03 <@fredriq> so in fiqhack, I changed things up a bit. Blessed ones cure everything (but can turn uncursed as mentioned), uncursed picks 1 condition at random and cures that if the player has it 13:03 oh, that's hardly reliable at all 13:03 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law), 333 points, T:906, killed by a gas spore's explosion 13:03 <@fredriq> That was the point 13:03 it'll probably work on foodpois/ill before you die, as long as it hasn't been given the shorter timeout 13:04 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry about my connection] 13:04 <@fredriq> I think it's slightly worse than vanilla uncursed unihorns, but idk by how much 13:04 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 13:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "Drum of earthquake", got "a drum", on T:46304 13:04 huh, weird wish 13:04 <@fredriq> Note that since it doesn't touch attributes (in either direction), there are fewer things it can roll 13:04 <@fredriq> iirc it's 5 conditions, so it'd be 20%? 13:04 do foodpois/ill count as one or two? 13:04 Enchanted armor is unnatural. Everyone should ascend naked. Then you can cast spells too. 13:05 I think from a balance point of view you would want armor max enchantment to scale with armor inherent enchantment 13:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:46326 13:05 <@fredriq> @ais523 My main concern atm with fiqhack unihorns is that ideally I want the random-uncursing to not happen right away, but I need to figure out a way to handle it well 13:05 there's not much benefit to crystal plate over leather when your entire inventory is +5 13:05 <@fredriq> because I don't want a stream of bad RNG rolls to mean that the player's unihorn keeps unblessing 13:05 age field 13:06 reset it on every blessing and prevent an unblessing if it's too new 13:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (2nd time), on T:46336 13:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:46337 13:06 IIRC it does nothing on unihorns at the moment 13:06 <@fredriq> That would work 13:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] merget (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 45 points, T:190, killed by a kobold, while sleeping off a magical draught 13:07 <@fredriq> @ais523 FoodPois/Ill (and Zombie) is a single condition 13:07 OK, so sickness, blindness, confusion, hallucination, stun, I think that's it? 13:08 <@fredriq> yes 13:08 they are treated as two conditions internally for some purposes and one condition for others, so I have ot ask 13:08 <@fredriq> yeah 13:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) averted death (petrified by a cockatrice), on T:46387 13:08 <@fredriq> If the unihorn is blessed, everything is cured, so it's 100% reliable. If uncursed, it will cure each condition 20% of the time since it picks one at random 13:08 when I first saw playing NetHack, all the references to "Ill" were in a variable-width font without serifs, so I didn't realise it was a real word 13:08 <@fredriq> I don't know how likely it is to cure a condition in vanilla 13:08 I thought it was just an III status that was very dangerous for some reason 13:09 <@fredriq> hah 13:09 Slash'EM makes it enchantment-dependent, which basically just means that unihorns are a ?oEW drain 13:09 <@fredriq> just double-checked the code, there's a 10% chance for it to unbless 13:10 the unblessing is unlikely to make much difference unless holy water gets rebalanced somehow 13:10 which probably means fixing potions in general 13:10 they really need a fix, but I'm not sure what the details would look like 13:10 <@fredriq> what I could do is to make it scale from 0% at <2 turns up to 50% at 2k turns or similar 13:11 potions weight too much 13:11 some things that I think would move in the right direction: a) change price-ID bands to encourage using them in combat emergencies; b) add some way to make them safe to keep in main inventory early-game that eventually drops off (probably due to inventory slot competition); c) make their effects much stronger so that they're actually worth using 13:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor (3rd time), on T:46454 13:11 <@fredriq> @ais523 I had a YANI years ago, idk if any variant implemented it (FIQHack did not), that I think aosdict ended up calling "1+1=2" alchemy 13:11 the weight factor I think is more "insult to injury" than an actual balance problem; fixing it wouldn't fix the problems, and if the other problems were fixed, it wouldn't on its own break the game 13:12 I was there for the discussion, and thought I invented it, but maybe not? 13:12 <@fredriq> Something similar could be used to balance holy water by making it not as trivially easy to mass produce 13:12 1+1=2 doesn't *directly* work for holy water 13:12 <@fredriq> the problem is that there are many, many ways to create it 13:13 <@fredriq> @ais523 It solves "dip water into HW to make more HW" 13:13 no it doesn't, 1 water + 1 holy water = 2 holy water 13:13 <@fredriq> Hmm I suppose that makes sense 13:13 1+1=1 would fix it but that's even more restrictive 13:13 <@fredriq> Idk why I thought it'd fix it then.. 13:14 <@fredriq> But yeah, even if you made it 1+1=1 or whatever 13:14 <@fredriq> there are other ways to make HW in bulk 13:14 <@fredriq> drop 50 water on altar, pray, you now have 50 HW 13:14 <@fredriq> name potions of water individually, read blessed remove curse while confused 13:14 <@fredriq> etc 13:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 13:15 @fredriq: https://nethack-yanis.github.io/yanis/3946.html 13:15 <@fredriq> >Significantly, potions of holy water mostly work like they do now - the holy water does not mix with anything and is consumed, while the dipped item becomes blessed - but you can only dip a singular item into the holy water, including other potions. This loss of the ability to mass-produce holy water creates a significant balance change. 13:16 <@fredriq> that might be why I thought of it 13:16 [hdf-us] [ndnh] post163 (Nob Elf Mal Cha), 131 points, T:69, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 13:16 fwiw, brainstorming about holy water, I decided that in most respects it would help if an uncurse (and possibly a bless) required the use of more than one potion, but that might be problematic for other reasons 13:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:2, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 13:16 one nice thing about that is that it'd let you introduce empty bottles into the game without breaking things 13:16 (assuming that dipping still breaks the bottle) 13:17 <@fredriq> ADOM does something interesting with its equivalent of NetHack polypiling, you can only dip 20 "stones" of material into a potion of.. whatever ADOM called polymorph (I don't remember) 13:17 <@fredriq> you could do something like that for HW, make heavier things require more of it 13:17 "duplicate undiluted potions" would be helpful to some extent because one of the main issues with escape potions is their lack of charges 13:17 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Hum Nbn Law), 119 points, T:254, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 13:17 at least that would allow for UI consistency without ruining things 13:18 "this «item» is too large to dip into one bottle; use 4 bottles instead? (y/n)" 13:18 <@fredriq> Yeah that's what I had in mind 13:18 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Elf Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, killed by kicking a wall 13:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] arrow (Ran Elf Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:6792 13:19 I like that, it's fair on players who don't know the mechanic and has a plausible flavour justification 13:19 [hdf-us] [ndnh] post163 (Nob Hum Fem Cha), 145 points, T:469, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 13:20 ooh: "your two potions are two large to dip into one bottle; use 2 bottles instead? (y/n)" 13:20 <@fredriq> fwiw I always imagined that you didn't literally dip the object into HW, but rather sprinkled the HW over it 13:20 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Hum Mal Neu), 50 points, T:101, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 13:20 same, "dip" is just a convenient memory aid 13:20 <@fredriq> Yeah 13:20 <@fredriq> Was just saying wrt your example prompt above 13:21 <@fredriq> might be worthwhile to change it to apply instead of dip (while keeping the old as alias) 13:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 4 points, T:218, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 13:21 <@fredriq> "You sprinkle X over Y" 13:21 anyway, this idea is credited on the YANI db to "ais523, jonadab, FIQ" which I think is a great set of authors to have 13:21 <@fredriq> Heh 13:21 <@fredriq> That's basically everyone that made NH4 derivatives that are part of Junethack 😛 13:21 apply doesn't work in the current UI because it's ambiguous between "put oil onto this rusty weapon" and "set the oil on fire" 13:21 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Dra Dro Nbn Neu), 9 points, T:16, slipped while mounting a saddled baby gold dragon 13:22 <@fredriq> hmmmm ok 13:22 technically NH4-hdf is different from the nethack4.org version, and none of us are directly responsible for the differences 13:22 [hdf-eu] [xnh] wvc (Arc Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:5198 13:22 <@fredriq> what are the differences exactly? 13:22 <@fredriq> beyond N4O running a server instance 13:23 I think #overview was added? 13:23 and maybe some xlog/livelog changes, not sure on that 13:23 <@fredriq> Hasn't that been in NH4 since forever...? 13:23 <@fredriq> #overview I mean 13:23 no, #history came from NitroHack 13:23 [hdf-us] [evil] hasselhoff (Kni Dro Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2137 (1:05:39) 13:23 but #overview is a 3.6 thing 13:23 <@fredriq> It was one of NitroHack's best pioneering features 13:23 or, hmm 13:23 <@fredriq> being able to do inter-level overview 13:23 am I confused? 13:24 NH4 does let you look at other levels but I can't remember how 13:24 maybe it does have #overview? 13:24 <@fredriq> It is also notably one of its only advantages of its level overhaul 13:24 <@fredriq> It uses #overview to do that 13:24 * ais523 loads up a test game on nethack4.org 13:24 [hdf-eu] [xnh] wvc (Arc Hum Mal Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a boomerang on an altar, on T:5379 13:24 <@fredriq> Oh yeah, NH4 on hdf has my enhanced watchmode feature 13:24 <@fredriq> I also think it has some changes from kerio pertaining to dgamelaunch compatibility 13:25 <@fredriq> ("compatibility" as in livelog etc) 13:25 OK, dose have #overview 13:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:46746 13:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) acquired the Sokoban amulet of reflection, on T:9444 13:25 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law), 1781 points, T:1334, killed by a jumping spider 13:25 <@fredriq> shame nitrohack didn't have #find 13:26 <@fredriq> like... you make a major rework to how levels are handled, and the one thing you add to take advantage of it is inter-level overview 13:26 <@fredriq> sure, it's not a bad feature by any means, but... you could have done more with it 😛 13:26 NitroHack was weird 13:26 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) had Werebane bestowed upon her by Mog, on T:44972 (15:18:01) 13:26 tbf it appears to have been abandoned halfway through that major change 13:26 <@fredriq> (I mean "you" as in "a person in general", not you as in ais523) 13:27 if I had realised how new and broken the feature was, I could just have started from a commit slightly before it was started 13:27 but, e.g., item migration was on the new system but monster migration was still on the old system, and still is I think 13:27 so most likely there were bigger plans for the feature that never ended up getting realised 13:27 <@fredriq> I've played NitroHack. While I didn't play it much, I played enough to conclude that it wasn't nearly as unstable as people kept saying it was 13:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1629 13:28 <@fredriq> notably, I did a compete ascension on one due to stumbling upon a random wand of wishing during testing. The save was fully operational for the entire game (tested later with replaymode) 13:29 even when they worked, NitroHack saves weren't stable against changes to the game binary 13:29 i played one dynahack game this year, just enough to get a trophy, and it crashed a bunch 13:29 <@fredriq> Yeah, there are fundamental flaws with the way it's designed 13:29 which is somewhat important when a variant is being actively developed 13:29 i kept trying to end the game in a fireball blast of me throwing a lit potion of oil at the wall next to me 13:29 <@fredriq> But it's not entirely broken like, say, 4.2 saves 13:29 and the game did not like that 13:30 I got worried about NitroHack's code quality upon seeing that the JSON API (which is intended to be exposed to the Internet) takes arrays as follows: an array, plus an integer indicating its length 13:30 and if the two don't match, IIRC it doesn't notice and just goes and buffer-overflows 13:30 :) :) :) 13:30 there are a lot of other security bugs in it that are more subtle than that one 13:30 some people get worried by that, some people get excited 13:31 but you can't just expose NetHack's C windowport API to the Internet and expect the binary to handle all possible input correctly 13:31 (nethack4.org is using this API but it is sandboxed/firewalled, only client executables running on nethack4.org are allowed to use it) 13:32 -!- dingotron has joined #hardfought 13:32 I had been hoping to fix the API security-wise but it is too big a job, you'd need to look over every windowport function and define all possible legal inputs for it, then ensure the input you actually received was in the legal set 13:32 -!- Dingotron2 has joined #hardfought 13:32 <@fredriq> DynaHack sadly uses the 4.2 save system. My feelings on them are basically; ais523 concluded the NitroHack way of handling saves to be fundamentally broken -- which is reasonable -- and proceeded to add diffs as a fallback. Unfortunately, the problem (at least in DynaHack, I wasn't around during NH4.2) is that the changes ultimately made the save system far, far less stable 13:32 it's certainly *possible*, but the effort is unlikely to be worth the reward 13:32 i wouldnt trust it 13:33 DynaHack didn't borrow 4.2save directly; IIRC it had changes which were based on it and were different 13:33 and 4.2save and DynaHack were both unstable but, I think, possibly for different reasons? 13:33 <@fredriq> To the point where a single dynahack crash is prone to killing your save without doing a bit of surgical-level edits 13:33 [hdf-eu] [xnh] wvc (Arc Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:6856 13:33 4.2save had the property that it corrupted the save file a lot but it was usually possible to recover by hand 13:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] guest99987 (Bin Hlf Fem Non), 262 points, T:385, killed by a gecko 13:33 "surgical-level edits" is a good description 13:34 <@fredriq> Notably, for a while, I assumed the whole "randomly overwrite options" things was a temporary bug that didn't stay around for long, because I never saw it either in NitroHack (which uses 4.1save) or DynaHack (which uses 4.2save) 13:34 <@fredriq> Until that one Junethack year... 13:34 <@fredriq> Where dynahack went on to kill every single one of Luxidream's saves 13:35 <@fredriq> I honestly have no idea how it managed that 13:35 <@fredriq> I think what happened was, something went really, really wrong and instead of terminating the session, Luxidream went on to try to load other saves 13:35 anyway, now we have 4.3save which is very stable and in fact sometimes detects bugs on its own 13:35 <@fredriq> Which rendered them corrupt 13:35 <@fredriq> Yeah, 4.3save is good 13:36 <@fredriq> In the end I managed to restore all of Luxidream's saves, but it was a huge pain 13:36 <@fredriq> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:FIQ/Restoring_DynaHack_saves 13:38 [hdf-us] [dnh] guest99987 (Bin Hlf Fem Non), 221 points, T:1111, killed by a gnome 13:39 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1048 points, T:3338, killed by an arrow 13:40 <@fredriq> idk why 4.2save stores file size as part of the 1st line 13:40 <@fredriq> but it makes save recovery far more annoying than it needs to be 13:40 <@fredriq> the game will basically immediately error out if there is a mismatch 13:40 <@fredriq> I guess it's some sort of integrity check? 13:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 0 points, T:377, killed by a tower of flame 13:40 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 562 points, T:1337, killed by an enormous rat 13:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 0 points, T:26, killed by a fox 13:41 I think the problems with 4.2save are related to seeking 13:41 like, it uses that value to know where to start writing from, rather than checking the file size 13:41 <@fredriq> 4.2save has problems beyond that, which can easily be seen if you try to use replaymode on 4.2save 13:41 <@fredriq> it doesn't take long for it to stumble upon problems 13:41 OK, some of the problems :-D 13:42 you get the occasional file with long strings of NUL bytes, which I think happens due to seeking beyond the end of the file and writing there 13:42 <@fredriq> notably, every single time you save and restore, the gamestate breaks (this is a 4.2-specific issue, 4.1save doesn't have this problem) 13:42 <@fredriq> breaks as in desyncs that is 13:43 I guess the next question is, is there any point in working on / trying to salvage 4.2save nowadays? 13:43 does it only matter for DynaHack? (which isn't even using the code unmodified) 13:43 <@fredriq> blindness and hallu running out also causes problems, likely related to the vision array (also not a thing in 4.1save) 13:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] thorsb (Hea Gno Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2752 13:44 <@fredriq> @ais523 I genuinely considered restoring the old NitroHack save system for DynaHack 13:44 hallu doesn't affect the vision array, though, I thought 13:44 <@fredriq> a major reason against it is that, while it's painful to restore a 4.2save, restoring 4.1save is impossible if something goes wrong 13:44 I wonder how much of an effort fitting 4.3save onto DynaHack would be 13:45 <@fredriq> (iirc there was a reason I didn't want to port 4.3save, it might have been because I didn't really understand the diffs) 13:45 [hdf-eu] [xnh] DeVoid (Pri Hum Mal Neu) entered the Bigroom, on T:16009 13:45 <@fredriq> but yeah, even if 4.1save is more stable, I wouldn't really trust it with user-facing games 13:45 there are a few other changes needed for 4.3save to really work well, like the RNG changes and the pudding AI 13:45 <@fredriq> hence why I have done nothing instead 13:46 <@fredriq> 😛 13:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 556 points, T:2934, killed by a coyote 13:46 <@fredriq> (because even if I never encoutnered problems with 4.1save, I know for a fact that people recall NitroHack eating their saves, so...) 13:47 -!- dingotron has quit [Quit: Client closed] 13:47 <@fredriq> I did address some of DynaHack's save desync problems, but I was never able to figure out the problem with hallu/blind, and while IIRC I did successfully fix the save+restore desync, I deliberately left that as a WONTFIX for now 13:47 <@fredriq> since it happens to be a useful bug when restoring broken saves 13:48 4.2save was intended to add full backup saves on occasion, I think 13:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] guest99987 (Bin Hlf Fem Non), 332 points, T:1257, killed by a succubus 13:48 …maybe that's how the full backups were implemented? it might not actually have been a bug 13:48 <@fredriq> I'm pretty sure it doesn't do that, at least not in DynaHack 13:49 or am I thinking of 4.3save? the bug might have been promoted to feature 13:49 <@fredriq> I don't think so, the code looked a bit weird IIRC 13:49 <@fredriq> the code that caused the 4.2 bug i mean 13:49 <@fredriq> 4.3save does do periodical full backups 13:49 at least one of the NH4 save systems – I forget which one – was worked on in a hotel in France while I was unable to sleep 13:50 <@fredriq> ah, that must be why 4.2save is as stable as it is 🙂 13:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] guest99987 (Bin Hlf Fem Non), 150 points, T:556, killed by a kobold 13:50 I was going slowly mad because I'd lived for about four days on crisps and BLT sandwiches because I couldn't eat almost all the available food for allergy reasons 13:50 <@fredriq> also, 4.2save makes huge files 13:51 the differ got better over time 13:51 so the file size is not surprising 13:51 <@fredriq> they were even larger than fiqhack's for the short period where I accidentally messed up the compression settings on the compressor I changed fiqhack over to 13:51 <@fredriq> (which also created disproportionally large files) 13:51 4.3's diffs are naturally so well compressed that often the compressor isn't even used 13:52 although I imagine it kicks in much more often for, e.g., new levels being entered 13:52 <@fredriq> I changed th ecompressor in fiqhack at some point, because save loading was taking forever in some cases. The new one is much faster, but creates slightly worse compressions iirc 13:52 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Wiz Dwa Nbn Neu), 0 points, T:1, shot themself with a death ray 13:52 that's reasonable I think 13:53 <@fredriq> (it could take 30 seconds or more to load lategame saves) 13:53 also I think 4.3save is more cautious about reading saves than it really needs to be 13:53 <@fredriq> that sounds like my newbox code for a Pokémon romhack 😛 13:54 there are gen 3 Pokémon glitches that exploit the anti-gameshark code 13:54 <@fredriq> (at one point I backported the modern storage system to Pokémon Crystal because the vanilla one's UI is horrible. Because I was really afraid of messing up people's saves, the code was created very defensively) 13:54 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry about my connection] 13:55 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 13:55 or was it gen 4? 13:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) averted death (killed by the high priest of Moloch), on T:47259 13:55 <@fredriq> instead of storing Pokémon data directly, each box stores pointer tables to a contiguous "database". This drastically cuts down the constant need to save when managing the storage system in Gen II, because it takes advantage of the fact that the in-game storage and the one stored in the save file can share most pointers 13:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:3707 13:56 <@fredriq> This, coupled with an enhanced UI made by someone else, made the system work more or less just like the modern PC box system work (with UI inspired from Gen V) 13:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:47261 13:57 I found the most interesting part of the Pokémon ingame to be RNG manipulation 13:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:47272 13:58 gen III pokemon has some partial aslr and checksums for pokemon data 13:58 especially if you didn't do it by manipulating the clock, but rather by finding your location in the sequence and working out good uses for the random numbers you were going to get 13:58 <@fredriq> the most fun part of Pokémon romhacking IMO is treating hardware limitations as guidelines instead of hard rules 😛 13:58 <@fredriq> and doing things like having far more colors or sprites than the system is supposed to be able to handle 13:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed amulet of life saving", got "an amulet of life saving", on T:47273 13:58 Demo: the ASLR and checksums is what got exploited, they tricked the code for checksum failure into writing into a structure with the fields in an order it didn't expect 13:58 anything that requires frame perfect inputs is only but so interesting to me because i could never do it :( 13:59 so that instead of marking a Pokémon as invalid it would change some other bytes instead 13:59 oh nice 13:59 <@fredriq> RNG manip is fascinating, but I never really did it myself 13:59 <@fredriq> too timing-dependant 13:59 my consistency with completely uncued frame-perfect inputs is about 1 in 3, assuming I have an external timer and maybe about a day of practice 13:59 which is a) frustrating but b) enough 13:59 <@fredriq> I like reading about it, or seeing youtube videos about people explaining RNG mechanics 13:59 <@fredriq> but I can't see myself doing it 14:00 but, the methods I developed for gen 4 manipulation don't require frame-perfect inputs at all 14:00 <@fredriq> (not because I consider it cheating, I never shared that view; rather because it requires frame-perfect timings or similar) 14:00 you set up the RNG with the game paused in the menu (where the RNG doesn't advance) and then start the encounter using Sweet Scent directly form the same menu 14:00 * directly from 14:00 <@fredriq> Right, the DS games use a 1s timer IIRC? 14:00 <@fredriq> But the rest (older and newer games) are frame perfect I think 14:00 for breeding, you have to close the window and immediately press A but there's a huge window for that 14:01 gen 4 has a frame counter for *seeding* the RNG but you don't require frame perfection once the RNG is actually seeded 14:01 <@fredriq> Speaking of breeding, I never really understood why breeding uses a separate RNG entirely that only advances for breeding 14:01 gen 5 has a cycle counter, which is basically impossible to manipulate and you have to hope you hit, *as well as* a frame counter 14:01 <@fredriq> I never understood the point of doing that 14:01 <@fredriq> it always seemed weirdly pointless to me 14:01 but the cycle counter times only a small part of the game that doesn't involve user input, so it generally hits pretty consistent numbers 14:02 I think it was probably an attempt to avoid the issue with the seed space being smaller than the number of possible Pokémon? 14:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:3275 14:02 -!- crunchbubba has quit [Quit: Client closed] 14:02 this matters competitively, Heatran often runs Hidden Power, and assuming it's been caught with reasonable stats you can narrow down the plausible Hidden Power types from its gender 14:03 because there isn't enough RNG seedspace for some of the viable types to appear as both genders and still have reasonable stats 14:03 [hdf-us] [spl] shadowcat (Bar Inf Fem Cha), 1992 points, T:2554, killed by an arrow 14:04 (Heatran is a special case because it's one of the few unbreedable gendered Pokémon, and the need for Hidden Power as well reduces the probability that any given Heatran will be competitively viable) 14:04 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:4805 (0:45:39) 14:04 anyway, using a separate RNG for some of the stats in breeding squares the seedspace and that's enough to prevent this sort of correlation existing 14:05 -!- terrapin has joined #hardfought 14:05 <@fredriq> mhm 14:05 <@fredriq> didn't 4gen Heatran typically use the Pokémon Ranger event one? 14:05 <@fredriq> meaning that it was limited not because of RNG limitations but rather because of some fixed details about the event 14:06 I'm not sure, I never actually used it myself in a competitive event 14:06 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (2nd time), on T:48977 14:06 <@fredriq> I vaguely recall watching BW VGC events that featured Eruption Heatran that I think originated from a 4gen Pokémon Ranger event 14:07 <@fredriq> I suspect that very Heatran is in part responsible for why 6-7gen only allowed Pokémon caught within that generation to be used in VGC 14:07 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Kalecik on T:5187 14:07 <@fredriq> Starting with 8gen, they instead created a system that would erase old event moves instead to make a pokémon "competition ready" or whatever they called it 14:08 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (3rd time), on T:49074 14:08 <@fredriq> hmm, IIRC VGC2014 is significant because I think that event likely didn't involve a single cheater 14:09 <@fredriq> because I think it was before people broke the 3DS security 14:09 <@fredriq> and you couldn't compete with Pokémon caught before XY 14:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] guest99987 (Bin Hlf Fem Non), 1007 points, T:1384, killed by a black pudding 14:10 [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Gollum, on T:1177 (0:25:12) 14:11 <@fredriq> ais523: have you been tinkering with 3.7 any out of curiousity? I noticed that you have become more active recently, wasn't there a long period where you didn't lurk here at all? 14:11 <@fredriq> I might just have missed you since I didn't exactly lurk this place either for years 😛 14:11 I am intending to become more active in 3.7 but haven't yet 14:11 [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1079 points, T:1201, killed by a giant bat 14:11 <@fredriq> ahh, cool 14:11 <@fredriq> FIQHack barely avoided breaking 1 year without a single commit a few days ago 14:12 <@fredriq> I noticed it while adding a minor change requested by raisse 14:12 I was suffering from serious burnout over the last few years, could hardly do anything programming-related 14:12 then for several months I didn't visit IRC in the hope of avoiding distractions 14:12 <@fredriq> the commit was made around 364d 23h 30min after the previous one haha 14:12 <@fredriq> Ahh, ok 14:12 but then I stalled on my other projects, so thought, it's June, let's go play some NetHack 14:12 <@fredriq> Heh 14:13 also, pretty much all of social media is self-destructing right now, so IRC is starting to become the best place to see what other people are saying just in general 14:13 <@fredriq> My current major project the last few years has been a Pokémon romhack, but other developers have been inactive recently (probably holidays and such) and I decided to check out this place since it was June 14:13 funny how you say that 14:13 <@fredriq> Seems we had the same thought 😛 14:13 freenode self destructed too :) 14:14 <@fredriq> Yeah, Twitter is having problems paying its bills, Reddit decided 3rd party clients needed to go (causing serious trouble for blind users on top of that). Also apparently gfycat, an image host, is going to close down at the end of August 14:14 everyone wants to cut costs right now 14:14 freenode was a little early to the self-destruction train 14:14 everyone is so scared 14:15 corporate cost saving stampede 14:15 <@fredriq> Discord has also been doing some dubious things recently, but nothing exodus-worthy yet 14:15 Stack Exchange is also self-destructing, although I have hope that it will recover 14:15 Twitch managed to offend many of its creators 14:15 <@fredriq> I think this whole debacle is a side effect of investors suddenly deciding that maybe they didn't need to invest billions in tech 14:15 <@fredriq> I don't know what caused it, but it has had a knock-on effect 14:16 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:5955 (0:57:20) 14:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:6363 14:17 what has stack exchange been up to? 14:17 <@fredriq> honestly, while I feel no loyalty to Reddit whatsoever and wouldn't mind changing to something else, I don't really know where people went instead... 14:18 <@fredriq> I guess there's Lemmy, but several communities I lurk in reddit don't have alternatives there 14:18 Demo: it's related to GPT and other generative AIs 14:18 in a number of different ways, but the main trigger was that they banned moderators from removing posts for being GPT-generated 14:18 <@fredriq> hm oh yeah, I suspect social media being on fire might be because of ChatGPT 14:19 <@fredriq> since it caused investors to suddenly turn all their funds and dump into AI instead 14:19 also they're trying to get into AI-related initiatives, which have generally all been disasters 14:19 <@fredriq> causing non-AI-based stuff, like social media, to scramble to recover income? 14:19 possibly, or alternatively to become AI-based in a way that destroys their existing product 14:20 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:1747 (0:30:17) 14:20 ok yeah that's rough 14:21 <@fredriq> red hat also did something quite strange recently 14:21 anyway, the moderators protested against this general sequence of events and are on strike, so Stack Exchange is getting overrun with spam 14:22 <@fredriq> I don't really get involved into Linux politics, but isn't what they did outright illegal? wrt how the GPL2 works 14:22 or, well, for legal reasons it's not technically a strike as they weren't being paid in the first place, but most people are calling it a strike 14:22 <@fredriq> Heh 14:22 I'm not sure on the details and therefore I wouldn't be able to give an opinion 14:22 <@fredriq> ok 14:22 [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law), 55 points, T:174, poisoned by a killer bee 14:23 i read some statement from them, i dont have enough context to understand. i've never really liked them 14:23 i have better things to worry about i think. 14:23 anyway, I am about to play in a bridge tournament, and will have to leave IRC during it as a consequence (bridge has rules on communication during play) – I'll be back in a few hours 14:23 bye for now 14:23 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 14:23 <@fredriq> to my understanding, what they did was to lock source code (and binaries, so that part isn't GPL-violating) behind a paywall. However, the part that I suspect might not be legal is the fact that they make you agree to a license that forbids sharing the source. I don't think this is legal wrt the GPL2 14:23 it might help though to try to understand the big picture of what is happening in the world now 14:23 <@fredriq> See you ais523 14:23 [hdf-eu] [xnh] DeVoid (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "magic marker", got "a magic marker", on T:16486 14:24 my (only?) annoyance with mastodon/kbin/lemmy/etc is that they're all coded in any language du jour 14:24 i think they have enough lawyers that whatever they are doing is probably legal 14:26 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law), 1178 points, T:2018, zombified by a hobbit zombie 14:26 <@fredriq> "any language du jour" what does that mean? 14:26 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) wished for "2 blessed potions of enlightenment", got "2 potions of enlightenment", on T:49246 14:27 <@fredriq> I don't think what a platform is written in should matter unless you plan to contribute to the code. As long as it is robust, I don't care if it runs in C, Rust, Go or Brainfuck 14:27 it matters if you want to host it 14:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:5733 14:28 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Mage (level 30), on T:49252 14:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] inlawBiker (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 257 points, T:971, killed by an unsuccessful polymorph 14:34 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:9532 (1:15:52) 14:35 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Fem Neu) consumed animal products (larva) for the first time, on T:3018 (0:53:59) 14:40 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 54 points, T:92, killed by a system shock 14:40 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Wiz Trt Fem Neu) annihilated tortles on a level in The Dungeons of Doom, on T:1 (0:00:02) 14:45 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) had a pair of gauntlets of power entrusted to her by Mog, on T:51097 (16:37:05) 14:52 -!- cebolla has joined #hardfought 14:54 [hdf-us] [evil] ssnufd (Pri Cen Fem Neu), 3199 points, T:1997, quit 14:55 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Wiz Trt Fem Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of annihilation 14:56 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 4 points, T:146, killed by an unsuccessful polymorph 14:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Inc Fem Neu) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:1335 15:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 164 points, T:1012, killed by a sewer rat 15:00 -!- b_jonas has joined #hardfought 15:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:9254 15:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Inc Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:4028 15:11 -!- docpi has joined #hardfought 15:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Inc Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:5321 15:14 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 15:14 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) had Keolewa bestowed upon her by Mog, on T:52347 (17:06:17) 15:21 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Mog, on T:53245 (17:13:02) 15:25 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased magic harp named sink throne wish", got "a greased harp named sink throne wish", on T:49476 15:26 I got that by dropping a ring of polymorph down a sink, transforming it into a throne, then sitting on it to get a wish 15:26 that's an advanced wish 15:26 -!- crunchbubba has joined #hardfought 15:26 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Hum Mal Neu), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 15:27 Style points ... 15:32 good way to get altars too 15:32 cool 36? 37? feature 15:33 Does that count as polyitem for conduct? 15:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 15153 points, T:17614, killed by a sergeant 15:35 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:2018 (0:32:41) 15:37 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Frost Brand bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:14895 (2:13:26) 15:38 -!- mariari has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) destroyed killer's ghost, the former Investigator, on T:11368 15:44 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Hum Mal Law) entered the Minetown temple, on T:5681 15:48 <@fredriq> greased harp? 15:48 [hdf-us] [xnh] Lukethecool1001 (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Warrior (level 14), on T:13363 15:48 <@fredriq> I don't think those are easy to play on 15:49 [hdf-us] [xnh] Lukethecool1001 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 67098 points, T:13370, quit 15:49 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) destroyed tinklebear the human zombie, and former Esquire, on T:2538 (0:46:39) 15:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] post163 (Nob Hum Fem Cha), 0 points, T:52, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 15:50 [hdf-us] [xnh] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 2 points, T:6, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 15:51 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Wiz Trt Mal Neu), 105 points, T:547, killed by a system shock 15:52 -!- mariari has joined #hardfought 15:54 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered Minetown, on T:16788 (2:30:36) 15:58 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) entered the Elemental Planes, on T:50018 15:58 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) entered Plane of Earth, on T:50018 15:58 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5th time), on T:50018 15:59 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:4276 16:02 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a wolf, on T:4689 16:03 [hdf-us] [xnh] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 4799 points, T:4826, killed by an invisible priestess of Chih Sung-tzu, while paralyzed 16:04 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) entered Plane of Air, on T:50103 16:06 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) had Cleaver bestowed upon her by Mog, on T:56581 (17:58:14) 16:08 -!- CAT_S has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:18 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) entered Plane of Fire, on T:50199 16:18 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1967 points, T:5145, killed by a bolt of lightning zapped by an Uruk-hai 16:20 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Kni Hum Mal Cha), 2090 points, T:1131, quit 16:20 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) had Fire Brand bestowed upon her by Mog, on T:58004 (18:11:36) 16:21 [hdf-us] [hackm] post163 (Yeo Elf Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, killed by kicking a wall 16:22 [hdf-eu] [nh343] Raisse (Sam Hum Fem Law), 8510 points, T:3276, killed by a soldier ant 16:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 3 points, T:24, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 16:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] post163 (Nob Elf Mal Cha), 152 points, T:77, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 16:24 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Trt Mal Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of fire 16:24 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Dwa Fem Law), 5 points, T:31, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 16:24 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 362 points, T:1204, killed by a hobbit 16:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:27, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 16:25 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Hum Nbn Law), 0 points, T:45, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 16:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kevkat (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "Magic Marker", got "a magic marker", on T:27633 16:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 1214 points, T:3211, killed by a plains centaur 16:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) entered the Bigroom, on T:12328 16:27 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) entered Plane of Water, on T:50238 16:28 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 139 points, T:701, killed by a sewer rat 16:31 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:3160 16:34 -!- Bleeko has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Pri Dro Mal Cha), 2227 points, T:2661, killed by a rothe 16:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kevkat (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:27720 16:41 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Con Dro Mal Cha), 340 points, T:2258, killed by a dart 16:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 664 points, T:1264, killed by a gnome 16:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed Axus, on T:33197 16:43 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) had a dwarvish bearded axe entrusted to her by Mog, on T:60393 (18:35:13) 16:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 293 points, T:1808, killed by an arrow 16:46 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Arc Hum Mal Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:611 (0:03:55) 16:47 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 1415 points, T:681, choked on a bugbear corpse 16:48 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:4251 (1:45:43) 16:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1874 points, T:3510, killed by a dwarf 16:51 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:4305 (1:48:20) 16:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) murdered his faithful little dog, on T:1528 16:56 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Kni Dwa Nbn Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 16:56 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:2741 17:01 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) genocided class ;, on T:50245 17:04 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:13 [hdf-us] [un] bismatum (Sam Hum Mal Law) wished for "5 potions of water", on T:77275 17:15 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) entered the Astral Plane, on T:50318 17:17 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 17:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:14127 17:21 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 17:23 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Death, on T:50343 17:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 25693 points, T:14364, killed by an ettin mummy, while moving through the air 17:26 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) found Frost Brand on the floor, on T:50363 17:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Law) destroyed samiam's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:2320 17:32 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Death (2nd time), on T:50386 17:32 back 17:32 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Death (3rd time), on T:50394 17:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] xororand (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 676 points, T:1813, killed by a rabid rat 17:33 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:50409 17:35 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:8830 17:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] poppyjams (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 655 points, T:1360, killed by a sewer rat 17:38 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) found Vorpal Blade carried by a monster, on T:50428 17:40 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Pestilence (2nd time), on T:50435 17:42 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Pir Hum Mal Neu), 138394 points, T:22967, killed by a lightning paraelemental 17:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] inlawBiker (Hea Hum Mal Neu) consumed animal products for the first time, by eating a gnome corpse, on T:3094 17:45 [hdf-au] [nh370] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 3419728 points, T:50456, ascended 17:45 https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Grasshopper/nethack/dumplog/1688050411.nh.html 17:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Sokoban bag of holding, on T:11585 17:46 <@Loggers_VIII> gg 17:47 "You and Snuggles and K2 and the guardian Angel of Thoth and the purple worm and the purple worm and the purple worm 17:47 went to your reward..." 17:47 and many thanks to K2 and Snuggles and the purple worms too! 17:47 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) destroyed the invisible Loggers' ghost, the former Adept, on T:5769 (2:45:10) 17:48 Snuggles was a pit fiend, if you can't guess from the name 17:49 K2, of course, was a titan 17:50 were the purple worms summoned after reaching Astral? 17:50 yes, so they don't count as long-term pets 17:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:4209 17:51 getting a purple worm through the elemental planes seems difficult 17:51 although magic whistles can solve a number of problems 17:51 it is, especially plane of fire 17:51 and the "busy eating at the smorgasboard" thing 17:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (soldier ants), on T:5154 17:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5th time), on T:47326 17:52 do leashes solve the "is still eating" problem? 17:52 ais523, I don't know, never use them 17:56 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] parasite (Cav Inc Fem Law) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:185215 17:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Law) entered Sokoban, on T:5095 18:00 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:13800 18:03 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 2082 points, T:5476, killed by a werepanther 18:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) destroyed Flench's ghost, the former Kunoichi, on T:3699 18:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 10 arrows named +2 on an altar, on T:3952 18:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 4221 points, T:6739, killed by a knife 18:16 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Giantslayer by The Lady, on T:16729 18:18 -!- fakepass has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:19 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Fire Brand by The Lady, on T:17735 18:20 It's also annoying when your steed is eating (you can't use stairs) 18:22 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered the Bigroom, on T:18030 18:25 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] parasite (Cav Inc Fem Law) killed Oona, on T:185818 18:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] thorsb (Hea Gno Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:5751 18:29 [hdf-us] [hackm] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law), 273543 points, T:29517, killed by a displacer beast 18:29 -!- Demo has quit [Server closed connection] 18:30 -!- Demo has joined #hardfought 18:30 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Demo] by ChanServ 18:30 I blame black dragons for this disgraceful death. 18:31 destroyed relevant armor and you died later? or died running from them? 18:31 or some other chain of events? 18:31 destroyed my large splint so I had bad AC. Got killed by something I usually dispatched in 1 hit. 18:32 love hackem though. So much to do before one even gets to the endgame. 18:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kevkat (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) bribed Asmodeus with 42 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:28629 18:32 like evilhack, but hard. 18:32 don't read the previous statement, kaytoo 18:34 [hdf-us] [slshm] wsx9000 (Wiz Dop Fem Cha), 1599 points, T:1734, killed by a dog 18:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law) averted death (drowned in a shallow sea), on T:49069 18:34 I guess there's a difference between being hard and being evil 18:37 -!- Bleeko has joined #hardfought 18:37 it's based on evilhack so I'd say it's only hard in that there's more varieties of stuff that can kill you. 18:43 [hdf-us] [hackm] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 338 points, T:811, killed by an acid sphere's explosion 18:43 <@cpittman> I'm stuck in a shop with a shopkeeper that won't get out of the way. I don't owe him any money. 18:43 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 68441 points, T:21055, killed by a red dragon 18:44 <@cpittman> Oh! I put on a cloak of invisibility while I was in the shop... 18:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Nunnullus (Arc Hum Mal Law), 954458 points, T:49596, killed by the Wizard of Yendor disguised as a trapper (with the Amulet) 18:46 <@cpittman> Uh, wtf? Was he just waiting to ambush that poor guy? 18:46 that's quite the death message 18:46 I forgot the Wizard could do that 18:47 <@cpittman> Polymorph himself? 18:47 disguise himself 18:48 <@cpittman> I'm going to picture him as a cardboard box in the corner. 18:49 <@cpittman> Or the message got truncated and he was disguised as a Trapper Keeper 18:50 !lastgame nunnullus 18:50 nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/N/Nunnullus/nethack/dumplog/1687972556.nh.html 18:50 that's a very unique death 18:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 942 points, T:934, killed by a dwarf 18:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2558 points, T:3540, killed by a killer bee 18:58 bouquet evilhack is still harder than hack'em 18:58 they've taken a lot of the more difficult bits out 18:59 but yeah there's a lot more ways to die because of all the new monster/weapon additions and side branches from slash'em 19:00 ais523 you should try evilhack. its not evil per se, just really difficult. hence 'evil' 19:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kevkat (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:29178 19:01 not having paranoid air is evil 19:02 K2: I was reading through the information about evilhack on the wiki 19:02 and decided I disliked it because it had a 1/6-weight BoH artifact 19:02 hah 19:02 if you dont like it, dont use it 19:03 what's wrong with a 1/6-weight BoH artifact? 19:03 but the game is meant to be difficult, isn't it? games like that normally want people to make use of all available resources and are balanced around them 19:03 it implies that having pages and pages of stuff might be an intended way to play the game 19:03 like, I'm the sort of player who occasionally forgets to bless their BoH 19:04 yoiu could make assumptions, or you could try it :) 19:04 and yes its meant to be difficult 19:05 it just seems weird to be advertising at me, who's spent most of their time as a NetHack variant maintainer arguing that most variant maintainers are making their variants too difficult 19:05 actually I did that even before AceHack was a thing 19:05 perhaps an old dog can learn a new trick 19:06 i saw you discussing it, figured i'd mention giving it a shot 19:07 over the last few days I've been trying to gather up my courage and arguments to try to persuade the rest of the devteam that certain things are balance issues in vanilla 19:09 learning what I've learned over the past few years being a dev, achieveing balance is a never-ending struggle 19:09 indeed 19:09 I somehow managed to break balance in both AceHack and NH4 despite making only minimal changes 19:09 …although at least in NH4 most of the breaks are in favour of the player, which isn't so bad 19:09 vanilla nethack is pretty close 19:10 pretty close to what? being balanced? 19:10 How does NH4 break balance? 19:10 pets are probably too good 19:10 watching development for 3.7 i've noticed changes that skew it in one direction but then another change occurs that brings it back 19:10 ais523 yeah its fairly balanced imo 19:11 I noticed several balance issues just over the course of one Junethack 19:11 and am writing them up for my blog 19:12 some fairly uncontroversial examples that I think most people here agree with: potions are generally too bad (with a few notable exceptions), food is generally too abundant in the late game 19:12 the problem is that your (or anyone's) version of what's balanced is going to differ from another person 19:13 yes, but for most mechanics, there's a sort of range in which people can reasonably argue, and points outside those ranges there will be overwhelming support for moving them back inside 19:13 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) destroyed the invisible Arahael's ghost, the former Student of Stones, on T:8553 (4:10:43) 19:13 ais523: no, in NH4 it was mostly bugs that broke the balance. two big bugs: one that made monsters spawn with difficulty based only on dlvl ignoring your xl, and one that made pets digest for a quasi-infinite time which makes it hard to steal from shops 19:14 also, I consider mechanics that increase tedium without increasing (or significantly reducing, but that's rare) difficulty to be balance issues in their own right, and the vast majority of players agree with me on this 19:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kevkat (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class m), on T:29227 19:14 there are also people who disagree with me on this but they're wrong 19:14 these were back long ago when I played, I think you fixed them since 19:14 yes, those were fixed ages ago I think 19:15 (except for monsters that spawn along with a level, but those are very rare, almost all monsters spawn after the level is created) 19:15 <@cpittman> Never thought I'd see a Barbarian with excalibur. Fourk has lawful barbarians 19:15 there is still an unfixed crash bug with monsters self-zapping polymorph in nh4 19:15 hmm, I don't remember that one 19:16 fixing crash bugs in NH4 is something I care about, but IIRC most of the ones I had left were too difficult 19:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Kni Hum Fem Law) was bestowed with Demonbane by Lugh, on T:1769 19:16 ... thanks? 19:16 https://x0.at/5exx.png 19:17 that is a surprisingly dodgy-looking URL 19:17 I was thinking of heavy corpses in containers recently. normally you'd just make heavy corpses not spawn there so you never get the problem where you can't remove a corpse, but ice boxes are deliberate and flavorful and are sold in shops, so you can't just do that 19:17 ais523 its safe 19:17 vanilla has #tip nowadays 19:17 ais523: I came across this on hacker news today, this is you, right? https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/215216/high-throughput-fizz-buzz/236630#236630 19:17 aosdict: Message from @rikerwashere at 2023-06-30 16:03 EDT: xnh windows binary 8.0 release errors on modern win11, apparently newer lua or something? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/384784727774724121/1124429783246315641/image.png 19:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] poppyjams (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2906 points, T:3023, killed by a soldier ant 19:18 aosdict: yes 19:18 awesome, really cool work 19:18 …but that was on Hacker News months ago 19:18 did someone repost it? 19:18 ais523: yes, but ice boxes stop the corpse timer, so by flavor you may want to chop the corpse while it's still in the box, discard most of it, but keep the rest 19:18 or were you just looking through old threads for some reason? 19:18 it was reposted today 19:19 -!- neoxy has quit [Server closed connection] 19:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Kni Hum Fem Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:1995 19:19 ah, found the thread 19:21 anyway, I was really frustrated with myself at that point of my life – I could hardly get anything done 19:21 I finally finished *something*, which was simultaneously very impressive and also kind-of useless 19:21 and it had taken months when I felt like it really should have taken a couple of weeks 19:22 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] parasite (Cav Inc Fem Law), 6794878 points, T:187055, killed by an aphanactonan assessor 19:22 and I basically accomplished nothing else in all that time – not because I was working continuously on the FizzBuzz (I wasn't) but because I was failing to make progress on anything else 19:23 -!- neoxy has joined #hardfought 19:27 or you may want to eat part of the corpse but leave most in the ice box for eating later, like you'd do with a real world freezer that's also too heavy to lift alone when full 19:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Kni Hum Fem Law) consulted the Oracle, on T:3744 19:28 !lastgame parasite 19:28 nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/parasite/evilhack/dumplog/1680148716.evil.html :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/p/parasite/notdnethack/dumplog/1687043840.ndnh.txt 19:31 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) consumed animal products for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:4205 19:31 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Magicbane by The Lady, on T:4418 19:34 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 156 points, T:1103, killed by a sewer rat, while frozen by a trap 19:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] Superfly (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1265 points, T:2975, killed by a gnome, while sleeping 19:36 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 19:37 !lastgame parasite 19:37 Noisytoot: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/parasite/evilhack/dumplog/1680148716.evil.html :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/p/parasite/notdnethack/dumplog/1687043840.ndnh.txt 19:40 [hdf-eu] [hackm] UristMcRaven (Wiz Elf Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3454 (0:34:53) 19:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Kni Hum Fem Law), 23078 points, T:6029, killed by a sergeant 19:53 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 7695 points, T:7839, killed by a bolt of fire zapped by an orc-captain 19:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] thorsb (Hea Gno Mal Neu) acquired the Sokoban amulet of reflection, on T:8436 19:56 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) polymorphed his first object, on T:9391 (4:53:50) 19:58 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:931 (0:23:55) 19:59 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (energy vortices), on T:946 (0:24:33) 20:00 -!- docpi has quit [Quit: an orange!] 20:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) became literate by engraving "xx", on T:3811 20:03 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) tasted meat for the first time, by eating an iguana corpse, on T:4259 20:04 <@cpittman> You read: "killer, killed by vicarious suffering". - Ouch 20:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) hit with a wielded weapon (dagger) for the first time, on T:4623 20:06 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Hum Mal Law) reached the bottom of the Mines, on T:9615 20:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kevkat (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:29603 20:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:5173 20:08 -!- froggles has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law), 94419 points, T:9545, killed by a blast of missiles, while jumping around 20:11 [hdf-eu] [hackm] UristMcRaven (Wiz Elf Fem Neu), 5562 points, T:5566, zombified by a human zombie 20:12 [hdf-eu] [hackm] UristMcRaven (Wiz Elf Fem Neu), 61 points, T:47, killed by a goblin 20:13 [hdf-eu] [hackm] UristMcRaven (Wiz Elf Fem Neu), 239 points, T:263, killed by a rabbit 20:16 -!- cebolla has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:17 cathartes: good advice on altar camping. though i didn't manage to get a sac weapon, the boulder pushing bumped my strength up to 18, improved my constitution, and some death drops gave me better AC and stumbled across a unicorn for a unihorn 20:17 cathartes: was able to finish soko and get the amulet of reflection :) 20:17 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1425 points, T:7097, quit 20:18 gj 20:19 [hdf-us] [ndnh] bleeko (Acu Swn Fem Law), 585 points, T:1010, killed by Amon 20:20 Moult[m]: good job 20:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 3 points, T:95, killed by a water moccasin 20:21 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 0 points, T:17, killed by a little dart 20:23 cathartes: i also found a /oCreateMonster at the end of soko, so perhaps now i can resume altar camping 20:24 after all i already have a luckstone so mine's end isn't too useful except perhaps for other loot 20:24 perhaps i need to watch what mobileuser does first. i do tend to struggle a bit in the mid game choosing what to do next. 20:25 sometimes i watch speedrunners and they go ahead and dilute almost everything in favour of holy water whereas i struggle to do that... psychologically i have to ID everything first and only then choose a few things to dilute 20:25 [hdf-us] [slshm] Lukethecool1001 (Sam Hum Mal Law), 112067 points, T:13450, killed by a gug 20:27 [hdf-eu] [hackm] UristMcRaven (Wiz Elf Fem Neu), 2275 points, T:2459, killed by a recluse spider 20:28 well yeah, that's speedrunning 20:28 entirely different scenario from average play 20:33 !lastgame bleeko 20:33 Noisytoot: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bleeko/notdnethack/dumplog/1688428455.ndnh.txt 20:34 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 20:34 [hdf-eu] [hackm] UristMcRaven (Wiz Elf Fem Neu), 54 points, T:110, killed by a little dart 20:34 [hdf-eu] [hackm] UristMcRaven (Wiz Elf Fem Neu), 60 points, T:58, killed by a kobold 20:35 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 658 points, T:3726, killed by an elf zombie 20:39 [hdf-us] [slshm] Lukethecool1001 (Val Dop Fem Neu), 3588 points, T:1525, quit 20:41 [hdf-eu] [nh4] blinkleo (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 32512 points, T:2667, killed by a gnome lord 20:43 requiring multiple holy waters for blessing or uncursing items just means you need to carry even more holy waters 20:45 [hdf-us] [slshm] wsx9000 (Wiz Dop Fem Cha), 2276 points, T:2076, killed by a soldier ant 20:49 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:1480 (0:24:58) 20:54 -!- anselmus has joined #hardfought 20:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 534 points, T:3957, killed by a wand 20:59 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) destroyed Grouchy's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:2388 (1:17:26) 21:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 361 points, T:1168, fell into a pit 21:02 [hdf-eu] [nh370] thorsb (Hea Gno Mal Neu) found Sting on the floor, on T:11483 21:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] nebula42 (Val Hum Fem Law) murdered herbert, her faithful kitten, on T:151 21:05 [hdf-eu] [hackm] UristMcRaven (Wiz Elf Fem Neu), 2762 points, T:3335, killed by a steel crossbow bolt of frost 21:06 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 4674 points, T:2944, killed by a bolt of fire 21:13 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed +3 dragonhide cloak of magic resistance", on T:64719 (20:48:09) 21:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Fem Cha) killed Croesus, on T:24217 21:20 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Bar Eth Mal Neu) was given Atlantean Royal Sword, on T:2033 21:20 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed +3 dragonhide helm of speed", on T:64959 (20:55:22) 21:27 Noisytoot: Just screwing around trying to understand the binder mechanic. 21:30 And that yuki-onna turn into a snow cloud, steal, nibble your brain combo has a lot of room to go nuts with. 21:31 'lo Bleeko 21:31 Hey 21:31 Hello Bleeko, Welcome to #hardfought 21:31 -!- jess has quit [] 21:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] DoktorL (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 4443 points, T:6057, quit 21:34 -!- malor__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] inlawBiker (Hea Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed +2 gray dragon scale mail", got "a gray dragon scale mail", on T:10914 21:35 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Bar Eth Mal Neu) entered the adventure town for the first time, on T:3430 21:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] inlawBiker (Hea Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Magicbane by Hermes, on T:11022 21:36 -!- jess has joined #hardfought 21:37 ohi 21:37 I forgot you were in here jess o: 21:37 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1538 (0:28:29) 21:37 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (energy vortices), on T:1544 (0:28:39) 21:38 * jess runs around 21:38 how's you 21:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] thorsb (Hea Gno Mal Neu) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:12793 21:45 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law), 6130 points, T:3563, killed by a touch of death 21:47 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] Noisytoot (Bar Eth Mal Neu) killed Kroo the Kobold King, on T:4525 21:48 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) had 17 shuriken entrusted to her by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:1900 (0:39:21) 21:52 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) killed the Master Assassin, on T:66982 (21:27:25) 21:52 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:66984 (21:27:35) 21:54 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) completed her quest without incident, on T:67111 (21:28:54) 21:54 am oki 21:54 sleeby 21:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dhl-Hea Dro Fem Neu) averted death, on T:13977 21:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 39135 points, T:13977, petrified by Poseidon's curse 21:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] masterofpi (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 156036 points, T:24619, choked on a red dragon corpse 21:59 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3290 (0:49:54) 22:04 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) consumed animal products for the first time, by eating a wraith corpse, on T:3946 (0:54:49) 22:05 -!- Dingotron2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:05 [hdf-us] [ndnh] bleeko (Acu Swn Fem Law) entered the adventure town for the first time, on T:1869 22:06 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "asdfasdf", on T:4542 (0:57:17) 22:07 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:4739 (0:58:14) 22:08 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Hum Fem Neu) killed Croesus, on T:67666 (21:43:34) 22:10 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Yeo Cen Mal Neu) had Reaper bestowed upon him by His Holiness, on T:2462 (1:26:44) 22:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] thorsb (Hea Gno Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (master mind flayers), on T:13094 22:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] inlawBiker (Hea Hum Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "the blessed platinum yendorian express card", got "a credit card named the Platinum Yendorian Express Card", on T:12782 22:21 [hdf-us] [ndnh] bleeko (Acu Swn Fem Law), 3484 points, T:2168, killed by shredding of the soul 22:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] inlawBiker (Hea Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:13580 22:23 -!- dustinm` has quit [Server closed connection] 22:24 -!- dustinm` has joined #hardfought 22:24 cathartes, you around? 22:26 https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/issues/1073 I'm trying to get these to display the actual lines of code like you've done in your issues 22:31 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 22:32 -!- Bleeko has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] thorsb (Hea Gno Mal Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:13785 22:34 -!- ChrisANG has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:39 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 20128 points, T:6778, killed by a dwarf queen 22:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] Snuffburger (Mon Swn Fem Neu), 2641 points, T:1056, quit 22:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:9878 22:49 Umbire: get the permalink of the commit, and then append the #L line number 22:50 I see, thank 22:54 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Aphrodite, on T:39927 (9:33:04) 22:54 [hdf-au] [nh370] 9629 (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 211 points, T:798, killed by a gnome king 22:54 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Yeo Cen Mal Neu) had Sword of Justice bestowed upon him by His Holiness, on T:3596 (2:10:49) 22:55 the NetHack-3.6.7_Released branch could theoretically be updated, so linking the line number could cause the reference to be incorrect in the future, which is why you need to specify the specific commit 22:59 Right 23:00 I wasn't thinking of a specific commit, but I did find the one that added multishot for knives and spears 23:00 [hdf-au] [hackm] 9629 (Bar Gia Mal Neu) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by Crom, on T:1485 (0:10:00) 23:00 you can just use whatever the latest commit on the branch is 23:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:11028 23:01 oh lul 23:03 you can get the permalink here, in case you didn't know: https://0x0.st/H1Bs.png 23:03 then just paste it and add the #L 23:04 yeah I got it, no worries 23:04 thank you :3 23:08 [hdf-au] [hackm] 9629 (Bar Gia Mal Neu) murdered Idefix, his faithful little dog, on T:2103 (0:17:51) 23:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Hea Dro Fem Neu), 50 points, T:1698, killed by Mr. Picq, the shopkeeper 23:20 [hdf-au] [hackm] 9629 (Bar Gia Mal Neu), 2732 points, T:4052, killed by a little dog 23:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) was chosen to steal souls for the Glory of Loki, on T:14121 23:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) was bestowed with Stormbringer, on T:14121 23:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:8981 23:36 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:820 (0:22:06) 23:41 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed Oona, on T:34063 23:41 [hdf-us] [hackm] Ardub (Yeo Cen Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed fixed +2 dragonhide Gauntlets of Defense", on T:3816 (2:57:16) 23:43 -!- floorcrawler has joined #hardfought 23:44 -!- phinxy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:45 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1136 (0:30:50) 23:49 [hdf-us] [4k] cpittman (Bar Hum Mal Law) entered the Rogue tribute level, on T:13011 23:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] Cropper (Pri Elf Mal Cha) attained the rank of Curate (level 14), on T:14771 23:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) was bestowed with Stormbringer by Mars, on T:10364