00:00 gg malor! 00:02 still streaking? 00:02 Well done! 00:05 <@malor> 3-streak going. 00:05 <@malor> thanks 00:05 <@Shadow_Rider> whoa gratz 00:07 -!- HumboldtSquid has joined #hardfought 00:08 <@malor> it's going to be really hard to continue the streak though as I almost always play a "never ascended combo" and the remaining combos are all Madman. I was lucky to ascend 2 of them in a row as part of this streak, but I doubt I will get lucky enough to get 4 in a row 🙂 00:12 Oh wew, GG. 00:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) killed Croesus, on T:23761 00:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] Looksfar (Arc Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:6047 00:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non) was given their Quest, on T:57679 00:24 ping 00:24 !ping 00:24 riker: Pong! 00:28 -!- Umbire has quit [Killed (zinc.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 00:28 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 00:31 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 00:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) killed Cerberus, on T:18702 00:34 -!- Chris__ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:37 <@Shadow_Rider> Z - a runesword named Excalipoor 00:39 Playing SlashTHEM again? 00:40 <@Shadow_Rider> yeap 00:40 <@Shadow_Rider> do you know what excalipoor is 00:41 -!- Muad has quit [*.net *.split] 00:41 -!- bezaban has quit [*.net *.split] 00:41 Yahuh. 00:41 -!- Muad has joined #hardfought 00:41 -!- bezaban has joined #hardfought 00:41 Played enough FF to. 00:41 -!- bezaban is now known as Guest2227 00:42 <@Shadow_Rider> does it suck 00:44 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought 00:46 It's a lethal joke weapon 00:46 Sucks shit in most incarnations, does only 1 HP exactly usually 00:47 But in like FFV it can be Thrown for bonkers damage 00:47 and there's a high-evasion enemy that only has 1 HP 00:47 https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Skull_Eater_(Final_Fantasy_V) 00:47 <@Shadow_Rider> funny 00:47 These mirrored Soko-ban levels actually mess with my inner ear, it's like I'm slightly carsick. 00:48 My eyes know there's something not right, but my brain plows on anyway. 00:48 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:48 [hdf-us] [slth] shadowrider38 (Bar Dop Mal Cha) killed the Rat King, on T:20815 00:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:19174 00:50 https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Excalipoor_(weapon) 00:52 [hdf-us] [slth] shadowrider38 (Bar Dop Mal Cha) killed Krooella the Kobold Queen, on T:21130 00:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] smzp (Mon Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1574 00:53 [hdf-us] [slth] shadowrider38 (Bar Dop Mal Cha) killed Kroo the Kobold King, on T:21157 00:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 161 points, T:528, killed by a water demon 00:55 <@Doesnt> excalipoor was a good joke in ff5 00:55 <@Doesnt> it's in a chest in the evil warlock's castle, in the room right before him 00:55 <@Doesnt> but the chest is empty when you open it 00:55 <@Doesnt> if you leave the room after opening the chest, his henchmen comes out and fights you with it 00:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 73 points, T:310, killed by a water moccasin 00:56 <@Doesnt> not realizing it isn't actually excalibur 00:57 -!- fadein has quit [*.net *.split] 00:57 -!- Menchers has quit [*.net *.split] 00:57 -!- Pinkbeast has quit [*.net *.split] 00:57 -!- Pinkbeas1 has joined #hardfought 00:57 -!- fadein has joined #hardfought 00:58 -!- Menchers has joined #hardfought 01:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] RedArrow (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 914 points, T:1053, killed by a gnome, while sleeping 01:03 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:04 -!- APic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non) destroyed Acererak, on T:59872 01:07 -!- spicyCebolla has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:08 This is strange, maybe just new behavior in 3.7 of which I'm unaware. I threw three daggers from a stack of five in an encounter. I had formally altar-ID all five as uncursed. After the encounter, three of them no longer show BUC status. 01:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] smzp (Mon Hum Mal Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:3109 01:09 Can you have your BUC status change in a fight in 3.7? This isn't a disenchanter, it was an energy vortex. 01:10 <@Shadow_Rider> no 01:10 <@Shadow_Rider> only spellcasters or rodney 01:10 <@Shadow_Rider> what item was it 01:10 <@Shadow_Rider> oh i see 01:11 Odd. Possibly a bug, is there a reporting mechanism I can use? It was a stack of uncursed, presumably +0 daggers. 01:11 <@Shadow_Rider> i think you forget buc sometimes 01:11 <@Shadow_Rider> i dont know the mechanic but if its out of your inventory/out of view? 01:11 <@Shadow_Rider> not 100% certain about that 01:12 I guess it would be out of view if I'm engulfed. Never seen that behavior before though. 01:12 Thanks, Shadow_Rider. 01:12 <@Shadow_Rider> yeah sure 01:12 <@Shadow_Rider> i know its happened to me before, i just know the deets 01:12 Mostly just annoying, now I have a split stack until next time I get to an altar. 01:14 <@Shadow_Rider> !whereis Looksfar 01:14 @Shadow_Rider: [hdf-us] Looksfar [nh370]: (Arc Hum Mal Neu) T:7007 Sokoban level: 6 01:15 <@Shadow_Rider> well at least its not like you are multishotting 01:15 <@Shadow_Rider> just a nuisance 01:16 Yep. 01:17 -!- spicyCebolla has joined #hardfought 01:17 My first foray of any length into 3.7, I'm sure I'll find more surprises. 01:18 <@Shadow_Rider> did you hear about any of the major changes or just exploring? 01:19 I hang around here and on #nethack, so I am aware of some of the changes. I'm excited about the pet QoL changes, getting them resistances is super! 01:20 still bummed at the fact centaurs would be super-viable if not for their shit HP 01:20 Huh, I just threw the same daggers through a boulder to hit a mimic, and BUC didn't change when I recovered 'em. Strange. 01:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] smzp (Mon Hum Mal Law) entered Sokoban, on T:4493 01:21 Oooh, that's right. Fast, can equip most things, rideable... 01:21 <@luxidream> I think there were some changes with monster inventory 01:22 <@luxidream> when the daggers are thrown, they enter the inventory of the energy vortex, so they become unknown 01:22 <@luxidream> this is pretty annoying but I didn't remember to submit a bug report 01:22 Oooooh. That explains it, still annoying though. 01:24 Baby long worm is possibly the most useless pet ever. 01:25 Occasionally makes a functional living barricade I suppose. 01:25 !pom 01:25 Looksfar: The moon is new for 3 more days. 01:27 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 01:27 -!- APic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:4337 01:33 Umbire Viable as in for a steed? I know. I was excited to get a Mountain Centaur. 56 Max HP! 56! Just like I was mildly excited to get an elven wizard in monster's poly wand attack. 58 HP! Bah! 01:37 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 01:37 -!- APic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:5171 01:40 [hdf-au] [un] PeachMuffin (Sam Hum Fem Law), 3478 points, T:2905, killed by a killer bee, while praying 01:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:5288 01:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) destroyed RedArrow's ghost, the former Sightseer, on T:5288 01:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mad Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1338 01:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] smzp (Mon Hum Mal Law), 17072 points, T:6993, killed by a mountain centaur, while praying 01:46 thrown items entering monster inventory still shouldn't make the you lose the item buc/+ knowledge 01:48 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) attained the rank of Arbalester, on T:26322 01:48 @e?shopkeeper 01:48 shopkeeper (@) | Lvl: 13 | Diff: 15 | Spd: 18 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 50 | Generates: special | AC: 0 | Attacks: 4d4 weapon physical, 4d4 weapon physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: omnivore, nopoly, infravisible 01:48 hmm so they are susceptible to poison instadeath 01:50 <@luxidream> paxed: that is how it's behaving right now 01:50 <@luxidream> I will submit a bug then 01:50 The specific example should show up in my current gamefile if you're curious, paxed. Soko-ban level 2 I think fighting an energy vortex. 01:52 it's better to file a bug, i've got plenty on stuff on my plate and there are other devs too 01:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:6223 01:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Looksfar (Arc Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:8823 01:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:6276 01:58 Of course, happy to do so. I'm not familiar with the reporting system, how does one submit a report? 01:58 <@luxidream> I reported it alreadty 01:59 <@luxidream> http://nethack.org/common/contact.html 01:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 3183 points, T:6303, killed by a crossbow bolt 01:59 <@luxidream> paxed has told me that reporting through this channel is preferred 01:59 <@luxidream> but I also report on github just in case :p 02:00 i got laccas bones 02:00 Thanks, luxidream. Appreciate it! 02:01 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) read a Discworld novel, on T:26942 02:01 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Fem Una) destroyed lacca's ghost, the former Heretic, on T:4421 02:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non) was given Release from Care, on T:61587 02:01 damn i am at 1 hp 02:02 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 02:02 -!- Looksfar has quit [Quit: zaps a wand of sleeping! The ray bounces!] 02:03 -!- APic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03 ah. it was the fix for gh issue #493 which made it happen. 02:07 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 02:07 -!- APic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) killed Medusa, on T:27483 02:19 i got an uncursed magic lamp which i still need to bless 02:19 also +3 ring of protection \o/ 02:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Nob Hlf Mal Cha) killed Illurien of the Myriad Glimpses, on T:17039 02:20 -!- spicyCebolla has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:20 yay 02:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non) was given the Shield of the Resolute Heart, on T:62196 02:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non) was given Frost Treads, on T:62247 02:25 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Fem Una) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:22516 02:33 -!- riker has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:34 ad7f2afef9 made it so that knowledge is lost about an item if a monster gets hold of it 02:35 Yo FIQ 02:37 -!- Umbire has quit [Killed (erbium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 02:37 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 02:39 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 02:39 -!- APic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43 <@Doesnt> that change is very annoying, i undid it locally 02:44 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 02:44 -!- APic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 02:49 -!- APic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 03:06 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 03:07 <@luxidream> I see 03:07 <@luxidream> but the vortex remains seen and doesn't manipulate the object at all 03:07 <@luxidream> why is it that the identity of the item is forgotten 03:11 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 03:15 -!- fakepass has joined #hardfought 03:15 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 speed boots", on T:38071 03:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non) wished for "blessed blessed wrathful +3 grayswandir", on T:63768 03:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Fem Law) signified by divine providence, was chosen to carry Excalibur, on T:8492 03:20 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 03:20 -!- APic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22 @luxidream no idea. it does depend on canseemon(), so it shouldn't happen unless you can't see the monster 03:24 <@Doesnt> can you see your engulfer? 03:25 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 03:34 You usually can? 03:34 Unless it's a dust vortex 03:37 lets say you get engulfed by a dust vortex and cure blindness with a unihorn, do you get instantly blinded again? 03:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Pri Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +3 cloak of magic resistance", on T:5799 03:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Pri Elf Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:5823 03:42 -!- potato44 has joined #hardfought 03:46 Uhhhh 03:47 I'll have to wiztest that locally when I run out my ettin polyform 03:47 Then again I may have a 3.4.3 wizchar open 03:47 Hol up 03:50 -!- cathartes has quit [Quit: fly away] 04:11 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Umbire zaps a wand of digging!] 04:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Pri Elf Fem Cha) entered the Bigroom, on T:9198 04:13 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Juiblex, on T:38383 04:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Pri Elf Fem Cha) attained the rank of Priestess, on T:9256 04:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Pri Elf Fem Cha) destroyed nabru the dwarf mummy, and former Fighter, on T:9326 04:18 [hdf-eu] [nh370] TheShinxs (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 289 points, T:1418, killed by a wererat 04:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 38296 points, T:9414, killed by a carnivorous ape 04:27 -!- Kilroy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:29 why are some stones of the same kind much cheaper than others? are there flawed gems in xnethack? 04:30 how much does the price change by? 04:31 one is 24, the other is 1200 04:31 I had the same with jasper stones the other day 04:31 huh, idk what that could be 04:31 they're in the same shop, both uncursed topaz stones, they don't stack 04:31 (obviously) 04:33 -!- HumboldtSquid has quit [Quit: Client closed] 04:33 aosdict: ^ 04:41 -!- APic has quit [Quit: [TLS] Client upgrade] 04:41 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 04:44 argh Quetz, I appreciate your uncursing some of my stuff, but why also the unholy water? 04:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] pybit (Val Dwa Fem Law), 519 points, T:1317, killed by an iguana, while fainted from lack of food 04:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 119 points, T:408, killed by a falling rock 04:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 3 points, T:55, zapped himself with a wand 04:50 -!- APic has quit [Quit: Boot tut gut™] 04:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non), 3592384 points, T:67005, died of starvation 04:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 440 points, T:977, killed by a gecko, while frozen by a floating eye's gaze 05:00 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non), 3403 points, T:1959, killed by a freezing sphere 05:04 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Dispater, on T:39026 05:05 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:39032 05:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] pybit (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:1993 05:06 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:39037 05:13 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] pybit (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1064 points, T:2361, killed by a rope golem 05:14 hothraxxa: the technical core engine of unnethack should be on par with 3.6 (possibly even 3.7, not sure if I have not yet ported all significant commits). this also includes reasonable gameplay changes of 3.6/3.7 (okay, cleaver might be not ideal). the only big chunk missing should be status hilites. 05:20 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:39103 05:21 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:39109 05:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] pybit (Val Dwa Fem Law), 508 points, T:2336, killed by a goblin, while frozen by a floating eye's gaze 05:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] pybit (Val Dwa Fem Law), 54 points, T:205, killed by a water demon 05:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] pybit (Val Dwa Fem Law), 23 points, T:124, killed by a water moccasin 05:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1557 05:55 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 05:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] pybit (Val Dwa Fem Law), 295 points, T:1051, killed by a poisonous corpse 05:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at them by some watery tart, on T:3184 05:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] pybit (Val Dwa Fem Law), 42 points, T:239, poisoned by a water moccasin 06:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:4143 06:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:4334 06:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:4417 06:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law), 5417 points, T:5661, killed by a quasit, while praying 06:14 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Orcus, on T:39263 06:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1266 06:14 !tell raisse I don't know why what you describe is happening, if you still have a saved game with the shop I could ask K2 for a backup of it 06:14 I'm on it, aosdict. 06:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Fem Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon her by Lugh, on T:10344 06:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Fem Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon her by Lugh, on T:10638 06:21 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 06:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1416 points, T:2155, killed by a rothe, while praying 06:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) has been given Excalibur, and now enjoys supreme executive power, on T:2330 06:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:2773 06:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:5194 06:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "holy greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:6005 06:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] bagun (Bin Hlf Mal Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:5295 07:03 [hdf-eu] [4k] Semilg (Val Hum Fem Neu) entered the Minetown temple, on T:3945 07:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Sergeant, on T:12180 07:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Woman-at-arms, on T:8754 07:07 [hdf-eu] [4k] Semilg (Val Hum Fem Neu), 12000 points, T:4086, killed by a magic missile 07:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming an earth elemental, on T:12421 07:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Warrior, on T:10135 07:17 You mentally attack the leprechaun! The leprechaun trembles in agony! The leprechaun seems disoriented! You feel disoriented for a moment. 07:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law), 51764 points, T:10201, killed by a minotaur 07:26 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Fem Una) destroyed Arahael's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:5987 07:30 NetSysFire, not only a telepath but an empath too! 07:31 You were wearing an uncursed ring of levitation (on left claw). You feel disoriented for a moment. 07:32 YASI: cursed ring of levitation can also make you vomit randomly when you levitate since you get sick from it 07:32 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Fem Una) destroyed the invisible Arahael's ghost, the former Conjurer, on T:6207 07:40 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Fem Una), 7686 points, T:6735, killed by a gold golem 07:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:6542 07:52 [hdf-us] [un] unnethfff (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 2484 points, T:5146, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted killer bee 07:59 -!- Pinkbeas1 is now known as Pinkbeast 08:02 YANI: reduced version of the wands balance patch. Wand skill is still a thing, but varying wand effects are not. The main thing skill gets you is a better guarantee of accuracy (no more missing the Wizard of Yendor with your death ray!) and perhaps some other perks like being able to zap a wand as a bonus action like a stethoscope. 08:07 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Chevalier, on T:39289 08:09 dear demogorgon can you please stay still for a moment so i can apply this stethoscope? thanks 08:09 it must look hilarious if you randomly examine monsters like that 08:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] post163 (Nob Elf Mal Cha), 830 points, T:573, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 08:17 [hdf-us] [spl] post163 (Dra Elf Fem Neu), 78 points, T:313, slipped while mounting a saddled baby gold dragon 08:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] WizzyTheWeird (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 2811 points, T:3160, killed by a gold golem, while praying 08:23 [hdf-us] [sp] hothraxxa (Pri Orc Fem Cha), 691 points, T:1915, killed by a wererat 08:24 [hdf-us] [nh343] jealkeja (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:5769 08:26 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 10059 points, T:6857, killed by a gnome queen 08:30 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "magic markers", on T:24757 08:31 aosdict thats a good idea 08:34 yeah I feel like players would enhance the skill just to be more sure about hitting rodney 08:35 aosdict, see dnh wand skill 08:35 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Cerberus, on T:25028 08:36 I have no idea how the wand skill in dnh actually works, I just throw skill points in it because I assume it's good :P 08:36 me too 08:36 it appears to be a redlink on the wiki :( 08:37 aosdict, perhaps also make fire/cold/lightning/mm do better damage with higher skill 08:38 the whole thing probably leads to more victory dancing though 08:38 no, this idea is explicitly against scaling wand effects based on skill 08:39 looks like it adds more dice if your skill is higher 08:39 this is the "it's a magical tool, it does the same thing in anyone's hands" model of wands 08:40 just like spellcasting skills encourage uselessly casting spells like knock or light 08:40 well grinding like that is a nethack thing 08:41 do you know how time i spend in the early game locking and unlocking doors? 08:41 but people are going to do this with wands of mm too now 08:41 or just kicking down every door i see, or pushing a boulder around 08:41 I like to have the light spell to support cone of cold of fireball 08:42 at least spellcasting has a cost (hunger) 08:42 and evilhack knock is very useful 08:42 * in 08:42 i find knock useful in every variant 08:42 really? 08:42 I don't really like spellcasting using hunger, seems weird to have two limits (pw and hunger) 08:42 really 08:42 for escaping air elementals? 08:43 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:25382 08:43 yeah that 08:43 right 08:44 jilles: I think magic missile is underpowered, but there are perhaps better ways of fixing that than wand skill 08:45 dnh adds damage dice based on the skill so it can be kinda good 08:45 gnollhack makes wands of magic missile have like 150 charges lol 08:45 and also has a wand skill but idk what it does, maybe similar to dnh 08:46 for instance, YANI: magic missile has 2d6 as baseline damage, but can be boosted higher based on your magical stats, such as your Pw pool size, or your attack spell skill or something 08:46 I'm not saying knock and light are useless, but that they are often cast uselessly to train the skill 08:50 i like a lot of gnollhack's ideas but i see they intend to try to monetize it, so fuck gnollhack 08:51 also, really bad idea that will fail miserably 08:51 jilles, right, I see you point. spell spamming. 08:52 *your 08:57 I don't blame them per se 08:57 and as long as the source remains fully open we can always keep a server version 08:59 fuck nethack legacy 09:02 -!- tungtn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04 I'm going to email the devteam about this, the chatter has mainly been here so I'm not sure how aware they are of it 09:04 I'm also looking at the gnollhack commit to see how exactly they're trying to monetize 09:05 you can buy more lives, and there's a demo version that saves if you're past a certain dlvl and not in the mines 09:05 -!- Guest2227 is now known as bezaban 09:05 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Croesus, on T:26488 09:05 which pops up some message about buying full version 09:05 and these look android-specific? 09:06 idk, let's see where the Demo thing is set 09:07 can't see it set anywhere else than the android version 09:07 which has a really weird path 09:07 win/win32/winclisrv/GnollHackClient/gnollhackdroid/gnollhackdroid.c 09:08 idk seems fine to me 09:09 when are we gonna monetise hardfought? officially I mean, so I don 09:09 't have to feel guilty with bribing K2 09:09 [hdf-us] [nh343] jealkeja (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) retrieved the Mine's End luckstone, on T:9965 09:09 :^) 09:10 In-game ads! 09:10 "HOT NEW FOOCUBI IN YOUR AREA!" 09:10 hah 09:10 this is where K2 says 'hardfought will never be monetised' 09:10 and points to their suspiciously open wallet 09:11 and holds up a picture of a wand of wishing 09:11 no 09:12 its a picture of amateurhour wearing a chainmail bikini holding a wand of wishing 09:12 @/ 09:13 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) killed Sir Garland, on T:14790 09:14 how about, 1 cent per level or a minotaur spawns? 09:15 wow this gnollhack purchase interface is even scummier than I thought 09:15 we meme about "you are about to die... pay $5 not to!" but that's literally what they've implemented 09:16 lol what 09:16 android version? or all versions? 09:16 -!- spicyCebolla has joined #hardfought 09:17 I assume android version because it's not like there's ready-to-use payment processing infrastructure on other platforms 09:17 https://github.com/hyvanmielenpelit/GnollHack/commit/70654148bcd003f1896e00807e5789fa6ae341e6#diff-53a6930c088149a9a9ef9a3d3c7b3984a5c6e4e5233b6d8989e1bf77c28f5354R1418-R1465 09:18 how can they do that? doesnt this all go against the license used for nethack? 09:18 that's the commit I saw yesterday and mentioned here 09:18 heh 09:19 maybe I'm just unethical but it seems fine to me, not like we can't just compile the game 09:20 [hdf-us] [nh343] jealkeja (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the Oracle, on T:11319 09:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] bagun (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 21078 points, T:6931, killed by a priest of the Devil 09:22 those scamps! 09:22 maybe i'm not understanding this correctly, but I was under the impression that nethack, and any variants created from it, are under nethack's original license 09:23 the NGPL doesn't explicitly say that the ONLY thing you're allowed to charge money for is physical distribution fees, it just says you may charge a fee for that, and you must license all derived works "at no charge" 09:23 oh wait huh 09:23 they relicensed to GPL 09:23 you can't... do that 09:23 yeah 09:24 https://github.com/hyvanmielenpelit/GnollHack/blob/master/LICENSE 09:24 even still that means we should always be able to get a copy of the source right? 09:24 [hdf-us] [xnh] dgoddard (Mon Hum Fem Cha) attained the rank of Master, on T:34783 09:25 but dat/license is still NGPL 09:25 or well "gnollhack general public license" 09:25 <@Kes> I now feel justified in my dislike of the Gnollhack devs 09:25 <@Kes> This ain't ok 09:25 a derivative of NetHack or any part 09:25 thereof, to be licensed at no charge to all third parties 09:26 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha), 89100 points, T:15303, killed by a phase spider 09:26 amateurhour: my goal would be to make them stop using the nethack foundation and my and others' ideas for profit 09:26 it's kooky that it didn'tt occur to them to check in with the devteam before doing this 09:26 they still have a copy of the original nethack NGPL - https://github.com/hyvanmielenpelit/GnollHack/blob/master/dat/license 09:26 they even modified it 09:27 -!- Sgeo has joined #hardfought 09:27 wait they didn't release it under the original license? 09:27 <@Kes> spicyCebolla: This is the variant that made females weaker and is still committing compiled code to github. They're not exactly known for listening to the community :/ 09:27 is that gender thing still in the game 09:28 <@Kes> (no) 09:28 <@Kes> Last I knew there was a vague mention of adding it back, but it never got back in. I've mostly ignored GnollHack since it came out. 09:28 spicyCebolla: I think the main legal question is, "is it ok if you distribute the full game at no cost if it contains paywalls within the game" 09:29 I think they're trying to make male and female different, seems like there's items that only boost female characters for example 09:29 <@Kes> As someone who's worked in startup culture, the team behind it read as a very typical startup team to me (in a bad way), and it made me nervous. 09:30 though each of the ways they varied it could be seen as offensive in different ways lol 09:31 yeah I think there's pretty much nothing you could do to differentiate the genders, besides obvious biology stuff like laying eggs, that isn't somehow sexist 09:33 ok looking at how they changed the license im pretty sure its a violation 09:33 someone post this to reddit for me https://imgur.com/IShNRgc.png 09:33 i haven't logged in there in a long time 09:33 hah 09:34 ok yeah i have no idea 09:34 lol 09:35 <@Kes> lmao 09:35 it's not just monetizing extra lives, they have this bit in there: string text = "You have exceeded the maximum playable levels in the demo version. Please purchase the full version for " + productdetails.LocalizedPrice 09:35 wait so it looks like if you play the demo version and get past the sanctioned depth your game is effectively bricked 09:35 yeah 09:36 because it saves, and then if you reload guess what? you're still below the sanctioned level 09:36 yep, that gotta suck 09:36 so you can't start a new game 09:36 is this even out anywhere? 09:36 I think you get some kind of popup 09:36 imagine downloading gnollhack, "oh this is a neat game so far", t:10 hit a trap door, fall to DL11, now you can't play anymore 09:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] x86Cow (Val Dwa Fem Law), 434 points, T:884, killed by a wand 09:37 the limit doesn't apply in the mines 09:37 "You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you 09:37 must tell them their rights." 09:37 gnollhack-patched: it's GnollHack, but doesn't ask you for money 09:38 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 09:38 if they ship an apk with paid shit in it without the source code in it i think they are violating the license? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389212978030968832/884794791546744862/unknown.png 09:38 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:40 -!- Chris__ANG is now known as Chris_ANG 09:40 <@Kes> "Hey bruh I heard you like NetHack so we put predatory microtransactions in your NetHack" 09:40 welp. this is getting into devteam territory. they should be made aware, and its up to them if they want to do something about it 09:40 [hdf-us] [sp] hothraxxa (Pri Orc Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:6294 09:40 BEing able to buy your way out of death sounds ... not like a roguelike 09:40 in their own readme they state they take this stuff seriously 09:41 it's tricky, because you don't need to ship the source code. you can just give them a github link. BUT, I think if they make no mention of "you are free to modify and redistribute this game" then they are in clear violation 09:41 Next you know, you can use IRL money to buy stuff in the game 09:41 nabru: I know, right? 09:41 oh wait they tried to sublicense it as seen by https://github.com/hyvanmielenpelit/GnollHack/blob/master/LICENSE so they actually according to this, they are NGPL banned https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389212978030968832/884795432927113236/unknown.png 09:41 only up to 3 extra lives, nabru :D 09:41 :D 09:41 yeah, the GPL thing could end up getting them cease-and-desisted 09:41 aosdict: "accompany it with full information as to how to obtain the complete machine-readable source code from an appropriate archive site. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution.)" 09:42 only for non comericial 09:42 which means they have to do 3a 09:43 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) was given their Quest, on T:28064 09:43 honestly nethack legacy is hella in violation of this license wtf 09:44 need someone on the dt to get a free fsf sponsored lawyer and stop this shit idk 09:45 <@Kes> Idea: Community pools together $100 and puts NetHack on steam. Prices it at free. 09:46 look at the nethack legacy steam page and tell me it complies with "And you 09:46 must tell them their rights." or item 3 at all 09:46 oh, is that what it takes to self-publish on there? 09:47 like the fact the copyright holders didnt do shit about nethack legacy proves that there is no chance theyll do shit about any other license violations in that area 09:47 yeah, i guess they haven't wanted to deal with it Demo . is nhlegacy selling many copies? 09:47 it's about principle 09:47 $5.99 per copy 09:47 wtf 09:47 for a free game with a crappy CRT overlay 09:49 spicyCebolla: yeah this is something that should be nipped in the bud rather than letting them start to make money off it 09:50 from what I can tell gnollhack doesnt actually have any releases of demo version anywhere or any sold for money anything so i think the only real transgression until they bungle selling a binary is their GPL license on the repo? 09:51 which means they are automatically ngpl banned but i think thats kind of stupid and i think it was an accident but idk 09:51 <@Kes> Regardless, step one is informing the DevTeam. 09:51 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Master Kaen, on T:28542 09:51 <@Kes> ...and maybe posting a meme on reddit 09:52 the meme, and a genuine discussion post 09:52 i still think nethack legacy is the real transgressor that should have been gone after a long time ago 09:52 <@Kes> @ both aosdict and demo: Yes. 09:53 <@Kes> I've got to get to work, but if no one objects I kiiiiinda wanna post Spicy's meme. It made me laugh. 09:54 <@disperse (he/him)> What if NetHack Legacy was just a front-end addition to NetHack and downloaded the latest version of NetHack on launch, would that still be in violation of the GPL? 09:55 hmm. it might depend on if it was actually based on nethack code or not 09:55 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 09:55 <@disperse (he/him)> I mean, they could make an argument that you're just buying the music and CRT overlay 09:55 <@disperse (he/him)> Actually, it would be neat if it acted as a front-end for a variety of ASCII roguelikes 09:56 If you successfully wrote a shell that does that, and your source code did not contain any NetHack code, that would be fine 09:56 <@Kes> disperse: That's what NotEye used to do. It was pretty cool. 09:56 <@Kes> Wait, not NotEye 09:56 <@Kes> Eye of the Beholder? 09:56 but NetHack Legacy is pretty clearly bundled with nethack code 09:56 <@disperse (he/him)> NotNotEye? 09:56 [hdf-us] [xnh] dgoddard (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 689498 points, T:36676, killed by a vrock 09:56 <@disperse (he/him)> Yeah, and they're marketing it as if they produced the game. 09:56 <@disperse (he/him)> I'm in agreement that they're clearly in the wrong, but there were other ways they could have approached it 09:57 <@disperse (he/him)> And introducing new players to NetHack, in my opinion, is a net positive for the community 09:58 i thought this whole thing was a learning-to-code project for a group of people who were in therapy 09:58 originally 09:58 impressed you caught the startup vibes back then 09:58 wait thats what it was supposed to be? 09:59 i thought it was like gamer therapy. idk i could see that existing in finland 09:59 I'm writing email to devteam, anyone who wants to be CCed on it pm me your email address 09:59 <@Kexxyshin> wait nethack microtransactions? 09:59 "play the game and you feel better. is healthier than vodka, no?" 09:59 <@Kexxyshin> hows that asshattery go? 09:59 GnollHack is a NetHack variant developed by Sound Mind Games, a non-profit association based in Finland - Sound Mind Games is a Finland-based non-profit association that helps people suffering from depression and other mental disorders 10:00 but now the website's main page is a donation button 10:00 i swear that wasn't before 10:01 honestly that's kind of an interesting idea 10:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha), 37748 points, T:3808, killed by a bone spike 10:02 <@Kes> Yeah, it is. 10:05 oh i was just thinking of the scammiest way to run it where u give the mentally infirmed code ppl free "therapy" that boils down to them writing code for u for free for games u sell online. it would suck to manage that shit so much though 10:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:729 10:06 there's some cool stuff in gnollhack and I do think it's worth trying 10:06 though of course with the revelation of potentially serious shenanigans I doubt many people would want to 10:07 i wish i had the patience to play it but i have to go so slow and read so much :P 10:08 play monk it's cruise control to victory :P 10:08 if it had good flavor maybe but i dont like their way of thinking. they arent an epic dm 10:08 amateurhour: I would be interested in trawling gnollhack for cool ideas if they had any semblance of knowing how to commit code 10:08 aosdict: what hoilday makes me get honeyed apples in xnh? 10:08 raisse: Message from aosdict at 2021-09-07 06:14 EDT: I don't know why what you describe is happening, if you still have a saved game with the shop I could ask K2 for a backup of it 10:08 aosdict: also no, I died in soko 10:08 rosh hashanah 10:08 passover foods in nine days 10:09 * raisse slaps forehead; Of course! 10:09 I don't think I ever saved that game but I'll save one when it happens again and ask k2 to forward it to you 10:10 cool 10:10 [hdf-us] [sp] hothraxxa (Pri Orc Fem Cha) rejected atheism by offering corpse on an altar of Anshar, on T:7045 10:11 <@Kes> I think that the ideas behind GnolHack, much like some of the ideas behind Slex, are absolutely cool. I don't like the way they're doing things, I think it's scummy as heck, but I don't think that the game itself is without merit. 10:12 shocking twist: Demo is one of them! https://imgur.com/VyYNIRd.png 10:12 (posterity: he is not) 10:13 oh yeah i am a contributor 10:13 i opened a pr to fix something or something i forgot 10:13 <@Kes> Maybe vanilla's RCE fix? 10:14 hey Demo how much cash u earning 10:14 from ur gnollhack operation 10:14 https://github.com/hyvanmielenpelit/GnollHack/commit/681834bd729d856d4aa5722985499b746acef92c 10:15 there's a cool side branch in gnollhack called the Modron Planes or something 10:15 in their competition? 0. I am after blood, not money! 10:16 but you'll take the money 10:16 no 10:16 id rather they know less about me than have 15 bucks or whatever 10:17 in the modron planes there's lots of locked doors that need particular keys, and magic portals that are locked as well 10:17 so you explore collecting the keys, unlocking optional chests 10:17 some of the monsters are pretty nasty spellcasters, really hard to kill 10:17 heh I just thought of something 10:17 then there's a final boss, and you get a pretty imba reward 10:17 it's like orb of fate but weighs like 0 10:17 screaming "liberty or death" 10:18 But we'll take the cash instead 10:18 so in gnollhack demo version, it bricks your copy if you're in the dungeons of doom below level 10 10:18 well there is no demo version 10:18 but if you levelported to the valley, it would probably be okay with that 10:18 you should open a PR and fix that for them aosdict 10:18 hah 10:21 https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/pjnjv5/gnollhack_be_like/ 10:21 hahah 10:23 that 5 bucks can be considered as a "packaging fee", and assuming they provide the source for free, it should be valid. (but IANAL) 10:24 you just play one on TV 10:25 not even that 10:25 paxed: it's neither "the physical act of transferring a copy" nor warranty protection 10:25 for a second there I saw that as 'I<3ANAL' 10:25 i'm so bad 10:26 And who doesn't^W^W^W if NGPL ~= GPL, perfectly permissible to charge for a copy. They just can't stop anyone else giving them away for free. 10:27 ... that said when I got to string text = "You have exceeded the maximum playable levels in the demo version. Please purchase the full version for " + productdetails.LocalizedPrice + " to continue playing."; gah, Poe's Law 10:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law) signified by divine providence, was chosen to carry Excalibur, on T:2398 10:29 lol I just saw this: "In Hardcore Mode you have just one life. You cannot spend any extra lives to save your character from death." 10:29 WOW so hardcore! 10:29 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Croesus, on T:40495 10:29 paxed nethack legacy isnt telling them their rights on the steam page and im pretty sure they arent following rule 3a of the license either 10:30 * paxed is ignoring that legacy 10:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 1548 points, T:1858, killed by a rothe 10:31 hrm 10:31 <@Shadow_Rider> um anyone wanna give me a second opinion on how to not die here 10:31 who in the devteam takes these things seriously? 10:32 <@Shadow_Rider> may have just miskeyed into playing a drum of earthquake in a shop 10:32 just email the team 10:32 lol 10:32 i think aosdict did lol 10:32 or is gonna idk 10:32 <@Kes> Shadow_Rider: Yikes. That's going to be rough to extricate yourself from. 10:32 not finished yet 10:32 'hey paxed I need medical attention call you call 911 for me please' paxed: plz email devteam 10:33 lol 10:33 <@Shadow_Rider> wonder if its better to tele myself or him 10:33 i think mike stephenson is the one who does play a lawyer on tv 10:33 'hey paxed I found a cure for cancer, can you help me get the word out?' paxed: plx email the devteam kthx 10:33 :P 10:33 I suspect if a Finn does call 911 for you it ain't going to do you much good 10:33 'paxed a meteor is heading for your house, you need to evacuate' paxed: plz email the devteam 10:34 hah 10:34 has anyone looked at the nethack legacy license? 10:34 no i think that one fallls under dtype's remit 10:34 aosdict: "i'm sorry, please keep your distance" 10:34 NetHack Legacy's Steam page links to a "NetHack Legacy EULA" which is the NGPL and asserts they distribute source with the package. 10:35 -!- tungtn has joined #hardfought 10:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v tungtn] by ChanServ 10:35 https://0x0.st/-wVZ.txt here is an extracted from their source distribution license file they added 10:36 is this a sublicense? 10:36 [hdf-eu] [fh] Semilg (Val Dwa Fem Law), 37080 points, T:3975, poisoned by a rotted male orc corpse 10:36 looks like a sublicense to me 10:36 which is a violation of NGPL rule 4 10:36 Er but it is the NGPL 10:36 no it isnt 10:36 it includes the ngpl 10:37 the modified nethack parts of their source are NGPL licensed, the rest doesn't have to be 10:37 based on the preamble it looks like a lawyer went over it 10:38 And some explanatory remarks (and eg since 2(c) allows you to offer warranty protection, 4 is surely not intended to prevent you from telling people about it) 10:38 hahah omg, almost every commit message from amy over the last few weeks is a ragefest. she cant let go 10:38 * K2 gets some popcorn 10:39 oh dear 10:39 oh yeah no you're right i read something in the preamble wrong 10:40 oooh my - https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/commit/71d1810c710d035b2d6fdb26403e0befe55546cf 10:40 hahahah 10:40 AFAICT what Legacy and Gnoll are doing is kind of sleazy but not forbidden (like, I suppose, furious commit messages) 10:42 congrats on the new... title?... K2 10:42 holt shit this is hilarious 10:42 its definitely mad sleazy 10:42 the japanese release at least had cool boxart 10:42 does steam thing even have art 10:42 eh? 10:43 aosdict i know right? wat to dooo 10:43 It's got a picture of a dragon which since it is no longer the 80s is not fighting a woman wearing two metal saucers and a pair of leather underpants 10:43 boooooring 10:44 wait... that's my halloween costume this year 10:44 K2: You're the dragon, right? 10:44 nooo 10:44 this is what my kid wants me to go as this year - https://i.pinimg.com/474x/15/04/17/150417553b2d13ad4aa03a6eb59d4fae.jpg 10:45 hey hey the chicken 10:45 <@Kes> omg 10:45 c - 2 rocks\nd - 11 rocks 10:45 why? 10:45 what variant NetSysFire? 10:45 Excuse me I am resisting the use of the expression "massive cock" oh no wait I'm not 10:45 evil 10:45 watch me if you want 10:45 * amateurhour looks at K2 10:45 the 2 rocks are really cool looking and you don't want to mix them up with the boring ones 10:45 eh? 10:46 maybe they 10:46 are c u r s e d 10:46 yup 10:46 if buc status is different 10:46 you'll see that 10:46 can they merge at all? 10:47 Pinkbeast hah 10:47 godammit im gonna have to unironically run order of the glockatrice next june 10:47 can someone with an android phone see if gnollhack is actually on the app store yet? 10:48 yup 10:48 i couldnt find anything but i didnt search hard enough 10:48 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Eurasian_blue_tit_Lancashire.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Poecile_montanus_kleinschmidti_2.jpg 10:48 look at these tits 10:48 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Tou Gno Mal Neu), 68 points, T:297, killed by a falling rock 10:48 aosdict i dont see it 10:49 K2: i would like to file an osha complaint about this dungeon 10:49 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:49 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:40634 10:49 you cant have cursed rocks falling out of the ceiling 10:49 OSHA cares not! 10:50 NetSysFire: A friend has been known to refer to her "Parus majors" which I guess implies Latin plurals aren't her specialist subject 10:50 tits are a difficult subject indeed 10:51 [hdf-eu] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Neu) became literate by reading a book, on T:6384 10:52 also for anyone who didnt read the file name, these are, of course, birds 10:53 aka team B but with feathers 10:54 gnollhack dev jumped in on antigulps reddit post 10:54 like ravens only colourful and tiny! 10:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mad Inc Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:9081 10:54 (the team, not the gnollhack dev) 10:55 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Pir Chn Nbn Cha), 495 points, T:1352, killed by a giant bat 10:55 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the first wraithworm, on T:32587 10:59 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Fem Una) had Secespita bestowed upon her by Moloch, on T:2206 10:59 K2: I saw you ping them and thought things might get spicy 11:00 also I thought tommi was the boss and janne was the dev 11:04 -!- qt has joined #hardfought 11:05 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Mal Una) had a plaid spellbook given to him by Moloch, on T:3663 11:06 confuse monster meh 11:06 -!- froggles has joined #hardfought 11:09 [hdf-eu] [nh370] willspoke (Mon Hum Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:63763 11:09 :) 11:09 amateurhack will have microtransactions for cosmetic hats 11:10 <@Kes> SpliceHack will have microtransactions for fixing your crashes. I'll make out like a queen 11:10 bobbles $1, bobbobbles $2, etc 11:10 cosmetic hats that protect you from zombies and grant 10 AC 11:10 omg 11:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] willspoke (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:63775 11:10 GENIUS 11:10 and can be applied to dogs 11:10 we're gonan be oprah rich 11:11 *gonna 11:11 so if gnollhack starts charging people to unlock certain things to be able to play, does that mean I can charge them rent? 11:11 lol 11:11 u wish 11:11 no seriously 11:11 why couldnt I 11:12 lol the 'hardfought app store' taking a cut 11:12 it's not a license issue to say "if you want your game on my server you have to pay me", since everyone has access to the game 11:12 i'm paying for a server that their game is being ran on, getting them exposure they normally wouldnt have, for free 11:12 where's my mercedes 11:12 honestly they would probably be fine with it, since fewer players on hardfought = more players on mobile 11:13 bleh 11:14 lol @ K2 turning "I can't pay you but think of the exposure" into "pay me for exposure" 11:14 nethack server influencers 11:14 lol 11:14 did anyone bring nethack legacy to the devteam's attention when it first came out? 11:14 heh 11:14 yes 11:14 probably several times 11:14 I'm not sure anyone actually emailed the devteam 11:14 i wonder why they didnt do anything about it 11:15 but I remember ais being around at that time talking about it 11:15 untold hours of working on content, and then watch someone else profit from it 11:15 i wouldnt stand for it 11:15 big giant 'fuck no' 11:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Mon Hum Fem Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:5674 11:15 brb making android port of evilhack 11:15 <@Kes> This was my take: https://old.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/pjnjv5/gnollhack_be_like/hbxubvu/ 11:15 eww old reddit 11:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law), 128 points, T:295, killed by a falling rock 11:15 heathen 11:16 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Mal Una), 4086 points, T:5971, killed by a wand 11:16 :P 11:16 <@Kes> new reddit makes my firefox unhappy 11:16 but old reddit is the only way to see r/ooer in its proper glory 11:16 :/ 11:16 <@Kes> Computer fan go brrrrr 11:16 https://old.reddit.com/r/Ooer/ 11:16 antigulp: *tenets 11:16 not tenants 11:16 Kes: just use something like tuir 11:16 <@Kes> aosdict: Whoops. Thanks 11:17 also do you want to be cc'ed on this email 11:17 <@Kes> I'd be interested, yeah! 11:17 reply: cool cheers for the heads up 11:17 /thread 11:17 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Sam Hum Mal Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3051 11:18 damn Kes, well said 11:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law), 224 points, T:778, killed by a hobbit 11:18 ok is your git configured email address still good? I'm pretty sure you're no longer at school 11:18 me trying to say the same thing would have come out as 'you dumbfuck, stop' 11:18 [hdf-eu] [nh370] TheShinxs (Sam Hum Fem Law), 222 points, T:908, killed by a gnome 11:18 I plan on chiming in there too 11:19 <@Kes> aosdict: Well, it's not my current email address, but I have forwarding set up, so it works. 11:19 oh Kes == antigulp? 11:19 yes 11:19 3.6+ variant developers 3v1 SHOWDOWN 11:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:3764 11:19 when will the first elbereth be engraved? 11:19 <@Kes> K2: Oh, that's very much what I was thinking when I wrote it lol. 11:19 heh 11:19 i'm not as well spoken 11:19 no items, fox only, final destination 11:20 mainly because I dont try. i could be, but grunting and saying 'you suck' is easier 11:20 meh competitive smash always got boring because all the fun stuff gets stripped out 11:20 K2: well it could be a compliment if your opponent is a mindflayer 11:20 or a vacuum 11:20 :) 11:21 <@Kes> aosdict: u wot 11:21 you can have smash's equivalent of slex by maxing the item generation rate 11:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law), 631 points, T:1161, killed by a homunculus, while sleeping 11:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring a silver amulet of reflection, on T:11235 11:21 smash'em extended 11:22 I'd play it 11:22 pretty sure slex had that as a scroll name 11:22 ok what's up with this https://old.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/pjnjv5/gnollhack_be_like/hbxvc6i/ 11:22 great you aren't bilking the voice actors, wonderful 11:22 but you seem to have missed the point 11:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Wiz Inc Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1872 11:24 tfw the voice samples aren't amateur finnish voices 11:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Wiz Inc Fem Neu), 5904 points, T:1995, absorbing too much energy and exploding 11:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law), 310 points, T:696, killed by a kitten 11:25 [hdf-eu] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed eye of the aethiopica", on T:11700 11:25 <@Kes> Is this where I pull out my legitimate voiceover training and add VO to splice to flex on them? 11:26 for $2 hear amateur finnish voices in your game 11:26 > so, Kes, why did splicehack1's scope increase so much? 11:27 <@Kes> heh 11:28 [hdf-eu] [fh] Semilg (Val Hum Fem Law), 40962 points, T:4800, killed by a gnome queen, while fainted from lack of food 11:30 wait it had a scope? 11:30 :D 11:30 3.6.0 no-scope 11:30 hah! 11:31 lol 11:31 <@Kes> lmao 11:31 [hdf-us] [slth] shadowrider38 (Bar Dop Mal Cha) killed the Dragon Lord, on T:30210 11:31 yay slashthem 11:31 hello qt 11:31 hey 11:31 Hello qt, Welcome to #hardfought 11:31 have you been following the gnollhack saga 11:32 no, what happened 11:32 i can just read logs if it is being discussed here 11:32 yeah 11:32 they are adding microtransactions to the mobile version? 11:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] willspoke (Mon Hum Mal Neu) entered the Astral Plane, on T:64316 11:33 yup 11:33 m o n e t i z i n g 11:33 hi qt 11:33 how much does a wish cost 11:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Mon Hum Fem Neu) attained the rank of Student of Stones, on T:7691 11:34 hi K2 11:34 you can't buy wishes yet but it'll probably cost productdetails.LocalizedPrice 11:34 <@Kes> Ruh Roh! Looks like you died! Do you want your possessions identified, or do you want to pay 500 NetGems to continue? 11:34 lmao Kes 11:35 qt - https://c.tenor.com/zQWHcFPU1-gAAAAC/forrest-gump.gif 11:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Mon Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:7744 11:35 i dont think nethack:legacy is a license violation, pretty sure the license specifically says you can charge money as long as you make the source available 11:35 idk about microtransactions but i kind of doubt that would be a license violation either 11:36 qt, read the license 11:36 i am also unsure about this but at minimum its some sleazy-ass bullshit 11:36 c) You may charge a distribution fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and you may at your option offer warranty protection in exchange for a fee. 11:36 and read backscroll as well there's some corking jokes scattered throughout 11:36 you must make the source available regardless of anything to do with money 11:36 qt, read this https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/blob/NetHack-3.7/dat/license#L26 and this https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/blob/NetHack-3.7/dat/license#L70 11:36 nethack:legacy does make the source available 11:37 by way of protest i will not include gnollhack on the nethackscoreboard.org 11:37 there's a link on their website "source" and it leads to a tarball 11:37 at least there used to be 11:37 read it 11:37 dont skim it 11:37 Stella: I mean it could get removed from hardfought as well 11:37 understand the context 11:37 qt: apparently the main page of the site is now a big donation button 11:38 donate to who/what? 11:38 hey aoei please add it to the scoreboard :( 11:38 I can't read finnish 11:38 [hdf-us] [gnoll] zor (Val Hum Fem Neu), 124 points, T:1060, killed by a gnomish wizard 11:38 aosdict: Stella: might be good to give them a chance to backpedal/apologize before punishing them? 11:38 gnollhack isnt on the scoreboard anyways 11:38 aoei been too lazy to add it 11:38 though it certainly doesn't look like they're likely to do so 11:38 on reddit so far they've doubled down 11:38 spicyCebolla: yes, great idea! (K2 had been asking me to add gnolllhack, i didnt get around to it, now am making excuses for my laziness) 11:39 (give them a chance is more 'do nothing', so im very happy to do that) 11:39 aoei you have to add it for hothraxxa, his z-score domination strategy demands it 11:39 pls add gnollhack to scoreboard so my ascs can be recognised 11:39 lol rip hothraxxa 11:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] arbelf (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 31870 points, T:8265, killed by a troll 11:40 (in all seriousness i may add the historical xlog at some point) 11:40 you should 11:40 i still have all of the slex xlogfiles 11:40 and dumplogs 11:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] willspoke (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:64387 11:41 * K2 waves at amy reading the logs again 11:41 <@Shadow_Rider> lmao are you guys still on about this gnollhack stuff 11:41 of course 11:41 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mad Inc Mal Neu) killed Cerberus, on T:11135 11:41 while we're wasting time talking about gnollhack shadow rider is on track for the second ever slashthem hardfought asc 11:42 :) 11:42 gogogo 11:42 <@Kes> :O 11:42 <@Kes> gogogogo 11:42 Demo: are you saying it's a license violation to have the source available on the website but not included in the Steam download? 11:42 gogogogol bobordellololo 11:42 <@Shadow_Rider> im like 25% through the game lol 11:42 <@Shadow_Rider> i wouldn't get too excited yet 11:42 maybe that's right -- idk what is included in the steam download though since im not gonna buy that crap lol 11:42 yes qt also the steam page doesnt " And you 11:42 must tell them their rights." 11:43 which polyforms have you been using shadow rider? 11:43 <@Shadow_Rider> um 11:43 <@Shadow_Rider> none 11:43 <@Shadow_Rider> i was thinking about using giant shoggoth to kill sam if thats meta 11:43 the link on the website is really hidden too lol, dark gray on black in the corner 11:44 y-you're a doppelganger 11:44 abuse polying 11:44 lol 11:44 amateurhour: most people cba to use techniques 11:44 <@Shadow_Rider> lmao i did it once at low level and it failed 11:44 it's not a technique 11:44 you just type #youpoly and you poly 11:44 once you get to xlvl 9 you get poly control shadow rider 11:44 <@Shadow_Rider> dont i have to be a certain level for it to succeed 11:44 see i never learned that technique properly! 11:44 <@Shadow_Rider> oh 11:45 try fire vampire 11:45 @lt?fire vampire 11:45 fire vampire (V) | Lvl: 12 | Diff: 22 | Spd: 24 | Res: fire cold sleep poison | Confers: nothing | MR: 50 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 0 | Attacks: 2d4 claw fire, 2d4 claw fire, 2d4 bite level drain, 2d4 touch magic drain, 2d12 cast fire | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, flies, breathless, regenerates, poisonous, stalker, infravisible 11:45 <@Kes> Star vampire too! 11:45 <@Shadow_Rider> wiki said shoggoth reks sam 11:45 <@Shadow_Rider> which should i do 11:45 shoggoth does rek sam 11:45 [hdf-eu] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:12436 11:45 but shoggoth is blind and fat iirc 11:45 <@Shadow_Rider> im at black market rn 11:45 <@Shadow_Rider> lmao ok 11:45 doesn't have a head so no instadeath to sam 11:46 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Dra Dro Fem Neu), 335 points, T:812, killed by a dwarf 11:46 <@Shadow_Rider> going to try that then 11:46 <@Shadow_Rider> tried pet strategy last game and lets just say im not doing it again 11:46 star vampire is epic as well but I think it doesn't use your weapons when you attack? could be remembering wrong 11:47 slashthem might have the slex nerf where fire vampire claw attacks don't use your weapons either 11:47 I should check that 11:48 -!- marry_ has joined #hardfought 11:48 you don't need to kill Sam if you don't want to, you can just poly into xorn and walk through the walls with all the stuff 11:48 think that's what I did 11:48 <@Shadow_Rider> wait what 11:48 sam has epic shit if ur poor 11:48 <@Shadow_Rider> how is that not documented 11:48 but yeah u can just steal it if u dont want his shit 11:48 <@Shadow_Rider> or at least what i read 11:49 lol 11:49 maybe ur reading un docs and it changes it? idk 11:49 you can literally just walk straight into the portal near the top 11:49 lol 11:49 <@Shadow_Rider> well thats seems easier 11:49 -!- kwel2d has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49 but then u dont get to steal his shit 11:50 like his nice enchanted ascension kit 11:50 <@Shadow_Rider> yeah lemme see what he has 11:50 -!- skillfulhacks has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:51 <@Shadow_Rider> ok yeah i kinda want that stuff 11:51 [hdf-eu] [nh370] willspoke (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 3891778 points, T:64432, ascended 11:51 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/w/willspoke/nethack/dumplog/1622156517.nh.html 11:52 gratz willspoke 11:52 <@Shadow_Rider> gg 11:52 <@nabru> gg 11:52 <@Shadow_Rider> is it a worth waking up the other dudes and have them walk away first 11:53 [hdf-us] [nh343] samiam (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 813 points, T:1646, killed by a giant ant 11:59 -!- Kilroy has joined #hardfought 12:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] otc (Arc Dwa Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1910 12:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:4830 12:04 -!- kwel2d has joined #hardfought 12:08 -!- Graznop has joined #hardfought 12:10 <@Shadow_Rider> amateurhour what happened to my polymorph control 12:10 <@Shadow_Rider> poly keeps failing 12:14 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 12:15 aosdict: i see yacs is mainly for school semester scheduling. do you think it would work well for scheduling a day of factory work? 12:15 [hdf-eu] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:15366 12:15 something i used to have to do by hand: ensuring that everyone gets at least 3 hours of work, no more than 6, people were generally assigned to the tasks they were best at, and people who hated each other weren't working next to each other 12:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] otc (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 2198 points, T:2309, killed by an ape 12:16 shadow rider I think slashthem nerfed it a lil, makes you roll if monster level is higher than your xlvl unless you use poly wand/spell 12:17 @lt?shoggoth 12:17 shoggoth (P) | Lvl: 18 | Diff: 25 | Spd: 15 | Res: cold shock poison acid petrification | Confers: cold shock poison | MR: 25 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: -5 | Attacks: 4d8 claw physical, 0d0 touch corrosion, 0d0 passive corrosion, 4d8 engulf acid | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, amorphous, breathless, regenerates, metallivore, stalker, vegetarian 12:17 <@Shadow_Rider> but im supposed to have poly control 12:17 think it's xlvl/18 chance or something, would have to check the code 12:17 <@Shadow_Rider> ahk 12:17 it's just #youpoly that was nerfed in that way I think 12:18 <@Shadow_Rider> this is L 12:18 it's what? 12:19 <@Shadow_Rider> an L 12:19 <@Shadow_Rider> loss 12:19 <@Shadow_Rider> may just xorn 12:20 or do you have a poly wand or something? 12:20 <@Shadow_Rider> nah 12:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:5652 12:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:5652 12:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping a circular amulet on an altar, on T:5656 12:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Neu) used a helm to turn lawful, on T:15426 12:22 damn... i dont think i've ever seen someone get downvoted so hard on a nethack reddit thread 12:22 what post? 12:22 you didn't see this classic then K2 12:22 https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b/seriously_i_paid_80_to_have_vader_locked/dppum98/?context=3 12:23 FIQ: https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/pjnjv5/gnollhack_be_like/ 12:23 i not even mad at them anymore 12:23 that shti looks neat 12:23 oh didn't see the word 'nethack' there sry K2 12:23 lol thats ok this is EPIC 12:23 -667823 12:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed lurchy's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:5682 12:24 tbh I don't find IPAs any worse than whatever vulture did a couple of years ago 12:24 I find both distasteful, mind you 12:24 but I never really had any particular issues with IAPs if done responsibly 12:24 i want IPAs 12:24 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:24 not IAPs :( 12:24 (my issue here isn't IAPs, but the fact that it's GnollHack, which is working off a free codebase) 12:25 *IAPs 12:25 what are IAPs? I've not seen that before 12:25 in app urchases 12:25 MTX 12:25 oh 12:25 not india pale ale 12:25 sad 12:26 I genuinely consider the f2p model to be a good thing in theory. You can pay what you want, meaning that if you dislike something and don't care for it much, you can play it for free, while if you like what you see and want more, you can pay more 12:26 -!- scj643 has joined #hardfought 12:27 the problems arise when it's combined with predatory mechanics such as the lootbox/gacha model and similar 12:27 dnh has lootboxes rn 12:28 mobile games are f2p in nature, I don't fault GnollHack for following the same model, if not for the fact that *NetHack is free* 12:28 but you roll with maybe getting ur character killed or seriously injured in a way that will take time to recover 12:28 and it isnt good for me 12:29 K2: pretty sure Amy has made posts more downvoted than this 12:29 -!- Looksfar has joined #hardfought 12:29 give it time 12:29 FIQ there's a demo version where you can't progress beyond a certain floor 12:30 and get prompted to buy the full version 12:30 amateurhour: that doesn't make any sense, I thought the game was f2p? 12:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed otc's ghost, the former Investigator, on T:5690 12:30 are you saying it costs money *and* has IAPs? 12:30 that's mean... 12:30 yes, you cannot progress or win in the game unless you pay up 12:30 what if there were in ass purchases? 12:30 if amy was here id tell her to figure out what that meant and add it to slex 12:31 Amy will see it Demo, don't worry it will get added :P 12:31 <@nabru> I'd rather have a game that I pay once than have IAPs 12:32 <@nabru> But I understand it doesn't fit well with the current business models 12:33 @nabru I disagree personally, if the IAPs are done well. Since most of the time, they aren't, I generally prefer the same 12:33 I've played the occasional indie mobile game, and they tend to also use the f2p model.. except their IAPs are actually sensible and non-predatory 12:34 sokoban dlc 12:34 (they mostly just tend to be stuff like "remove ads"), perhaps a premium class or similar 12:34 -!- Kilroy has quit [Quit: Client closed] 12:34 better idea, sokoban level solves for $.99 12:35 FIQ: oh who wants to bet that gnollhack on mobile will have ads 12:35 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:35 aosdict: probably the $5 version doesn't 12:35 i want hawaiian shirt lootboxes 12:35 sounds awesome 12:35 I've never played a mobile game with an upfront cost with ads 12:36 I'm sure they exist, but yeah 12:36 FIQ: IAPs can be okay if they're offered to you at low-emotion moments. but when your character has just died and you can handwave away some money to undo that mortifying mistake? that's manipulative and it works even on smart people 12:37 The demo one might, but eh, that's no worse than the rest IMO. As said I don't fault them for following the general mobile game model, if not for the fact that they reuse NetHack which is free (and combining upfront costs with IAPs is just mean) 12:37 spicyCebolla: I don't consider dying in NetHack to be a high-emotion moment 12:37 it's part of the fun 12:38 on your first ever late game splat it's heart-wrenching 12:38 why would you want to pay to resurrect 12:38 idk it can definitely be upsetting if you splat on astral or something 12:38 removes all the fun fron the game 12:38 i wouldn't pay to undo it personally though 12:38 but i can see why someone might 12:39 [hdf-us] [xnh] every (Ran Hum Fem Neu), 28106 points, T:18126, petrified by a cockatrice 12:39 i _would_ pay for hawaiian shirt lootboxes though, so someone should get on that 12:39 i would be what's called in mobile game IAP parlance a 'whale' 12:39 or bobble hats 12:39 for doggo 12:40 and if your character name is bobble, you can wear doggo hats 12:40 <@nabru> Being able to pay to undo death kinda defeats the point of a roguelike, IMHO 12:40 FIQ: plenty of players (newer ones) would love the ability to undo their YASD 12:40 my point exactly 12:40 (@ nabru) 12:41 explore mode is already in the game 12:41 aosdict: hm I'm not sure if I ever felt that 12:41 but I guess i can see i 12:41 *I can see it 12:42 unflip all flipped levels for only $19.95 12:42 lol 12:43 now we know why patr was so vehement about keeping flipped sokoban in 12:43 long-term moneymaking plan 12:43 it all becomes clear 12:43 guaranteed elbereth every engrave, $49.99 12:43 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:44 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 12:45 hey k2 if you remove this minotaur from my game that is gonna kill me ill pay u in the form of crisp high fives 12:45 https://nhqdb.alt.org/?3282 12:45 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Axus, on T:38628 12:46 lol 12:46 https://nhqdb.alt.org/?3544 12:46 i only accept bitcoin 12:46 i hope riker and Pinkbeast will be getting a cut of the gnollhack riches 12:46 for coming up with the idea 12:46 <@luxidream> I wonder if the end of game stats will show that you life saved by microtransaction 12:47 yani: if you anger your god or have negative alignment you can purchase indulgences from coaligned priests (anger costs more) 12:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:9709 12:48 if you pay enough, you cant lose 12:49 doesn't the "selfless generosity" one do something like that already 12:49 idk 12:49 i dont think it handles anger? 12:49 it might touch alignment? 12:49 yeah i think it helps with negative alignment though 12:49 its like monetized save-scumming 12:49 not certain 12:50 calling it an indulgence is a funny idea too, i like it 12:51 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) wished for "gray dragon scales", on T:28845 12:51 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:28846 12:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) was given their Quest, on T:10642 12:56 -!- Kilroy has joined #hardfought 13:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) killed Thoth Amon, on T:11774 13:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed the Cyclops, on T:35986 13:05 another take on gnollhack license violation I hadn't thought of until now https://old.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/pjnjv5/gnollhack_be_like/hbya7oq/ 13:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Nob Hlf Mal Cha) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:18033 13:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] Looksfar (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 18391 points, T:9219, killed by a Grey-elf, while sleeping off a magical draught 13:12 That makes it sound like I drank the darn thing. He broke it over my head! 13:12 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 5971 points, T:6385, killed by a bolt of fire 13:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:12898 13:15 -!- jonadab has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:16 -!- jonadab has joined #hardfought 13:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v jonadab] by ChanServ 13:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:13176 13:17 [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 428 points, T:876, killed by a flint stone 13:17 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 13:19 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Mon Chn Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1152 13:20 [hdf-us] [sp] hothraxxa (Pri Orc Fem Cha) had a a large round shield bestowed upon her by Anshar, on T:8972 13:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) became the Messenger of Hermes, on T:36939 13:21 *facepalm* 13:21 ...but it's a very NICE shield. 13:21 shieldy 13:25 janne replied to the thread btw 13:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed the invisible Axus, on T:37450 13:27 see this is why nethack legacy should have been dealt with more agressively 13:28 tarring and feathering works! 13:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] desertgreg (Mon Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2135 13:30 imagine if you could only play as certain roles until u unlocked others 13:30 but you could pay to unlock them 13:30 the intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes :) 13:31 -!- tacco has joined #hardfought 13:32 i paid $100000000000 and all i got was this stupid Hawaiian shirt with writing on it for some reason 13:34 sounds worth it 13:35 best in slot armour piece AND it's readable? 13:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 463 points, T:1199, killed by a homunculus 13:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:5033 13:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non), 4508 points, T:2491, killed by a Woodland-elf 13:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) killed Croesus, on T:22604 13:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:16393 13:44 <@riker> I woke up like 20 minutes ago, tldr gnollhack has microtransactions now?? wtf 13:44 <@Doesnt> you know the really sadistic thing about this is 13:44 <@Doesnt> it's nethack 13:44 <@Doesnt> so if you cough up $5 to get your valkyrie back 13:44 amateurhour: jonadab has toyed with the idea of locking roles (behind ascending other roles, not paying to unlock) 13:45 <@Doesnt> the master lich is going to cast touch of death a second time 13:45 <@Shadow_Rider> i think the dev just said that they will try to come up with an alternative 13:45 <@Shadow_Rider> since it seemed so unpopular 13:46 K2: btw what GnollHack does doesn't violate NGPL 13:46 this cmae up a while back with the vulture steam thing 13:46 should be the same thing here 13:48 FIQ: actually I argue that it does because the other two games don't paywall most of the content 13:48 FIQ: https://i.imgur.com/nVGAZLs.png 13:48 aosdict: it doesn't matter how much you paywall or not 13:49 either any sort of paywall is illegal, or nothing is 13:49 allowed but not acceptable 13:49 you have to "cause the whole of any work ... to be licensed at no charge" 13:49 spicyCebolla: agreed, I don't like what gnollhack has done here at all 13:49 but I'm almost certain it isn't *illegal* 13:49 if you're licensed to play 20% of the game at no charge, and then have to pay to access the other 80%, that breaks the license 13:50 aosdict: I paged ais523 who has looked at legality of this in the past, both wrt Vulture on Steam (wrt paywall) and Pathos: NetHack Codex (wrt resources reused from NetHack) 13:50 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:51 What part of the game does vulture on steam paywall? 13:51 aosdict: That clause requires the recipients to enjoy the same rights - distribution and modification - at no charge. 13:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] Looksfar (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 244 points, T:1039, killed by a dwarf 13:52 aosdict: https://store.steampowered.com/app/341390/Vulture_for_NetHack/ 13:52 the game costs €2.49 13:53 <@Shadow_Rider> so.. the whole thing is paywalled 13:53 I don't know if the steam version has some sort of demo system in place, but yeah it looks like it 13:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1504 13:54 fwiw GnollHack has VA 13:54 it's possible that they want to recuperate costs for that sort of thing 13:55 (but if that's the reasoning, they should have explained that) 13:55 (does anyone _want_ VA in NetHack?) 13:55 <@Shadow_Rider> the dev said that in one of the reddit comments 13:55 <@Shadow_Rider> but the response is just so negative lol 13:55 Pinkbeast: No idea. GnollHack seems to like to do its own thing 13:55 whether the community likes it or not 13:55 this has been a theme ever since gnollhack became a thing in the first place 13:55 we're not the target audience 13:56 i dont believe in software licensing 13:56 or intellectual property 13:57 <@riker> do you believe in property in general demo? 13:57 <@Shadow_Rider> amateurhour i kinda feel like the type of people that play roguelikes aren't the type of people to pay for extra lives 13:57 <@Shadow_Rider> so they are in the wrong business 13:57 that's not entirely true I feel 13:58 yeah 13:58 property is stuff thats real 13:58 there are roguelites with very large audiences (Binding of Isaac, for example) and it's not implausible that people who liked that could end up looking into true roguelikes 13:58 ideas arent real you literally made them up 13:58 OTOH it turned out a lot of people who weren't that type of people wanted to play roguelikelikes with some roguelike elements so... maybe there is a vast untapped market for NetHack but it yells at you and you can buy extra lives, IDK 13:58 and I'm sure a subset of those would be willing to pay for extra lives 13:58 Pinkbeast: my point exactly 13:59 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) entered the adventure town for the first time, on T:3970 13:59 The Candy Crushes of this world seem to be really good at nickel-and-diming people for extra lives so they can lose again under basically similar circumstances 13:59 <@Shadow_Rider> yeah makes some sense for sire 13:59 There are new room shapes in 3.7? Just ran into the first non-rectangular room I've seen outside of special levels. 13:59 <@Shadow_Rider> yep 14:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] yen0 (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by naming Sting, on T:850 14:00 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) was given the Gauntlets of Spell Power, on T:39292 14:00 That's cool. 14:01 <@Shadow_Rider> wait until you get the lava shop and burn to a crisp 14:02 <@Shadow_Rider> or some ridiculous 15x20 shop 14:02 Heh I'm still getting over my vertigo at mirrored Soko-ban rooms 14:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] bagun (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 9363 points, T:2838, killed by a horned devil 14:10 Been at nethack for maybe a year now (no spoilers no wiki) and trying to beat nethack from oracle alone... but 1 thing is bothering me. (please no spoilers) Does gender change anything? from my experiments it seems to be the same (succubus/incubus, stats, etc) 14:11 <@ichbinmiah> yes, but iirc it's not an enormous change. is that non-spoilery enough? 14:11 perfect ty 14:12 yikes it's risky to come onto irc if you're worried about spoilers 14:12 <@ichbinmiah> also this ^ 😄 14:12 <@Doesnt> there are two other things that check gender for gameplay effect 14:12 <@Doesnt> but they are both very minor 14:13 Darth Vader is Luke's father, FWIW 14:13 what?? 14:13 -!- Kilroy has left #hardfought 14:13 -!- Kilroy has joined #hardfought 14:13 :P 14:13 <@ichbinmiah> https://tenor.com/view/shocked-face-gasps-in-spanish-jokes-gif-12111499 14:13 ...mind blown. 14:14 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Mon Chn Mal Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:2872 14:14 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:14 and snape is secretly dumbledore 14:14 <@Shadow_Rider> Kilroy how much progress have you made? 14:15 I've managed to make it past medusa twice (monk / valkyrie), and im currently stuck at a drawbridge 14:15 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Mon Chn Mal Law), 7946 points, T:2903, killed by a brown mold warrior 14:15 <@Shadow_Rider> Very impressive 14:15 <@Doesnt> that is very good progress 14:15 the butler did it 14:15 <@ichbinmiah> best of luck Kilroy! 👏 14:15 stuck as in you die there, or stuck as in not sure what to do 14:15 it was professor plum, in the study, with the revolver 14:16 oooh i've said too much 14:16 that's you in the corner 14:16 <@ichbinmiah> https://tenor.com/view/angry-mad-flames-burning-gif-5270856 14:16 hey... no one puts baby in the corner 14:16 ^ actor and movie, go 14:17 stuck as in, not sure what to do (no spoilers) tried using a earth scroll to fill the water and dig the wall, teleport. atm im just going back to make sure i didn't miss anything 14:17 <@ichbinmiah> make the youngs answer first 😄 14:17 godspeed Kilroy 14:17 <3 14:17 <@Shadow_Rider> Let us know how it goes! 14:17 <@ichbinmiah> OK Kilroy, we will not help you, you can do it! 14:18 Kilroy: screenshot your inventory for us sometime maybe 14:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] bagun (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 475 points, T:671, killed by a dwarf 14:18 i wanna know if you did a thing but i can't really ask cuz you might not know the thing exists 14:18 imgur link work? or can i paste here? 14:19 imgur's good 14:19 <@ichbinmiah> Kilroy, you'd better run after you post this, we are a very helpful bunch 😄 14:19 Kilroy: Snape killed Dumbledore 14:19 <@riker> lol 14:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non), 14281 points, T:4355, killed by a warbat zombie 14:19 ppl helping nethack players? 14:19 <@riker> yeah i recommend leaving just to avoid general spoilers :/ 14:19 on my internet? 14:19 i dont belives it 14:19 i seen fancy people using https://0x0.st/ instead of imgur lately 14:19 <@riker> listen stella not everybody is a grumbly ancient curmudgeon like you :) 14:19 oh ya i use that one 14:20 wdym ancient >:O 14:20 https://imgur.com/a/MCQIJmh Let me know if this worked 14:20 <@riker> i've seen your pfp. you can't be younger than 85 smh 14:20 get off my lawn 14:20 young whippersnapper 14:20 <@riker> link did work 14:20 yeah you should probably /ignore Beholder 14:20 <@ichbinmiah> that worked! 14:20 <@riker> !ping 14:20 @riker: Pong! 14:20 btw there are in-game hints for your current issue, I'll leave it at that. But yeah I strongly advise against lurking on IRC since the channel has no policy against spoilers whatsoever 14:20 Beholder could accidentally spoil some aspect of the game 14:21 (in fact, variant developers do occasionally talk about technical in-game details assuming that everyone is 100% spoiled) 14:21 yeah i understand, i apologize 14:21 no need to apologize! 14:21 <@ichbinmiah> no need to apologize! I'm impressed you've gotten this far with no help. That is some mad skills 14:21 Not trying to chase you away, just trying to make you aware on what you're in for 14:21 if you lurk here 14:21 <@Shadow_Rider> We just wanna protect your innocent eyes 14:22 ha 14:22 appreciate it! i think i know the hint. i save screenshots of messages i buy from the oracle 14:22 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/704881576659386409/708776189447110694/unknown.png 14:22 <@riker> that's a really smart idea 14:23 <@ichbinmiah> I love the Oracle. Keep talking to her. 14:23 i've accidently killed her once, please forgive me 14:24 <@luxidream> I saw your streams in the past :) 14:24 <@luxidream> good to see you have not given up yet 14:24 <3 wow ty 14:24 I read an ao3 NH fanfic once centered on the oracle 14:25 (it wasn't one of... those fics, but just a bit of wholesome humor) 14:25 lmao imagine nethack slashfic 14:25 there are spoilers in it so I'll avoid linking it, but yeah 14:26 feel free, ill be heading out, thanks for being such an awesome group! 14:26 gl! 14:26 <@ichbinmiah> ggs! 14:27 Stella: I'm sure there's Rodney/Medusa pics out there if you care to look 14:27 I'll personally pass 14:27 yeah probably, tho i am also in no hurry to verify this 14:27 haha 14:28 @@ 14:28 <@Doesnt> @.@ 14:28 <@Zefnar> I volunteer as tribute 14:28 hah 14:28 [hdf-us] [sp] hothraxxa (Pri Orc Fem Cha) retrieved the Mine's End luckstone, on T:11557 14:28 <@Zefnar> I will make the Google search 14:29 9@6@ 14:29 @@@@@ 14:29 @ 14:29 oh huh I was able to remember the irc color wheel 14:29 neat 14:29 pls keep it sfw in this chan you guys 14:29 jeez] 14:29 haven't used it in literal years 14:30 put the clothes back on that @ smh 14:31 -!- Looksfar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Kni Clk Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1829 14:35 riker u need to go to law school 14:35 so we can have a nethack lawyer in 7 years or whatever 14:35 <@riker> why 14:35 <@riker> can i become a cs professor and then a variant dev 14:35 <@riker> the former was my original plan so 14:36 fuck ass finger painting or whatever ur major is. we need a laywer 14:36 do not get a cs phd unless you really, really want to stay in academia 14:37 <@riker> aosdict in all honesty I haven't decided - i want to teach, not to stay in research i believe. so i'm not sure where i'll end up 14:37 heck people are even saying to not get a cs masters anymore 14:37 <@riker> unless I find that I really enjoy research 14:37 when academia falls in the next 15 years i will be there to stoke the flames 14:37 don't get a phd period its terrible 14:37 <@riker> lol 14:37 i barely escaped academia with my sanity intact 14:37 The problem with "just teaching" jobs like lecturers or adjunct profs is that they usually require phds but also are untenured and poorly paying 14:38 some get trapped for years affterwards or their whole life 14:38 <@Shadow_Rider> What does a masters even do for you 14:38 <@Shadow_Rider> I haven’t gotten a good response to that yet 14:38 it does jack shit Shadow_Rider, except for look fancier on a resume 14:38 <@Shadow_Rider> Yeah that’s what I’m starting to think 14:38 at some point bachelor saturation was reached and having a degree no longer looked special on its own 14:38 a masters in cs gives you the ability to pursue _some_ higher level research, feel out if you want to go that path, and also take upper level courses 14:38 so ppl had to start gettin even fancier degrees 14:39 im giving reality, aosdict is giving the bogus sales pitch 14:39 c: 14:39 C: 14:39 my masters degree I hated the research and other "grad student" stuff but liked the grad-level classes 14:40 phd i enjoyed cooking up shit in the lab but the rest was bullcrap 14:41 if i ever have a crime syndicate i would want an orgo phd 14:41 like as a member 14:41 * Stella slides Demo her TOX contact hash 14:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:7916 14:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:7946 14:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) consulted the Oracle, on T:8259 14:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) averted death, on T:19901 14:52 [hdf-us] [sp] hothraxxa (Pri Orc Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a python, on T:12403 15:05 !ping 15:05 nabru: Pong! 15:05 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 200 points, T:996, killed by a wolf 15:10 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:15664, rt[1:55:08] 15:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] bagun (Bin Hlf Mal Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3184 15:17 [hdf-us] [nh343] samiam (Rog Orc Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a pair of hard shoes on an altar, on T:3319 15:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:10258 15:17 finally 15:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Woman-at-arms, on T:11126 15:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "3 blessed charging", on T:11313 15:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased rustproof fireproof bag of holding", on T:11314 15:23 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:23 random /oW! 15:23 :O 15:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased rustproof fireproof +3 cloak of magic resistance", on T:11315 15:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased rustproof fireproof +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:11316 15:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased rustproof amulet of flying named Boeing 797", on T:11326 15:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased rustproof +3 gauntlets of power", on T:11328 15:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) was given the Vampire Killer, on T:24595 15:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased rustproof fireproof +3 speed boots", on T:11602 15:28 <@Shadow_Rider> yaya! 15:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) wished for "blessed +2 premium heart", on T:24624 15:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Sam Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2268 15:33 https://thechoiceisyours.whatisthematrix.com/ 15:33 clicky click on either pill. depending on the time of day, it'll show you slightly different clips 15:33 full trailer out in 2 days 15:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Kni Clk Mal Law), 6728 points, T:3186, killed by a dwarf lord zombie 15:37 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 634 points, T:628, killed by a water moccasin 15:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Sam Hum Mal Law) made his first wish - "blessed fixed greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:2706 15:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "3 blessed genocide", on T:12975 15:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1976 points, T:2731, killed by an owlbear 15:39 Throne wish! 15:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class e), on T:12976 15:39 \o/ 15:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) genocided class L, on T:12977 15:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) genocided class P, on T:12978 15:39 yet I haven't found a single altar I can use in this game 15:40 almost ocnsidered wishing for holy water 15:40 was it orctown? 15:40 nope 15:40 and I didn't want to convert it before buying proteciton 15:40 thought you were complaining about orctown earlier, must've remembered wrong 15:40 *protection 15:41 nope. This was in a previous game 15:41 ahh 15:41 [hdf-eu] [fh] Semilg (Val Hum Fem Law), 30597 points, T:2454, killed by a soldier ant 15:41 <@Shadow_Rider> which minetown variant? 15:41 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Wiz Dop Fem Neu), 61736 points, T:14230, killed by a giant beetle 15:42 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Sam Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:6909 15:42 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) entered the Blackmarket, on T:19150, rt[2:27:24] 15:42 Grotto town IIRC 15:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed ichbinmiah's ghost, the former Dresser, on T:13256 15:45 !lastgame ichbinmiah 15:45 nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/i/ichbinmiah/nethack/dumplog/1610787953.nh.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/i/ichbinmiah/nethack/dumplog/1630846972.nh.html 15:45 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Arc Chn Mal Law), 218 points, T:510, killed by a crossbow bolt 15:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Mal Law), 797 points, T:931, killed by a gnome, while frozen by a floating eye's gaze 15:45 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Sam Hum Mal Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:7172 15:46 shadow rider in slashem and slashthem you can 'ugprade' items by dipping them into gain level 15:46 <@Shadow_Rider> yes i have seen that page 15:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Mad Hlf Fem Cha), 1248 points, T:1534, killed by a dwarf, while fainted from lack of food 15:47 <@ichbinmiah> @nabru good luck 😉 15:47 <@Shadow_Rider> eyeing the crystal balls in particular 15:47 thanks! 15:47 let me just check if crystal ball is nerfed :P 15:47 it's got some nerfs from slex in still 15:47 <@Shadow_Rider> nabru if you dont find an altar killing minetown priest is perfectly safe if you take precautions 15:47 <@Shadow_Rider> oh i meant converting crystal balls into markers 15:48 it's not nerfed, woot 15:48 yeah 15:48 <@Shadow_Rider> great 15:48 just found some holy water on ichbinmiah's bones 15:49 aw it's nerfed upgrading flint though 15:49 you could get a giant stack of flint and upgrade it into healthstones 15:49 in slash'em 15:49 <@Shadow_Rider> how do i get a healthstone 15:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Warrior, on T:13427 15:49 <@Shadow_Rider> i feel like i read there was a guaranteed one 15:50 just find them rarely, Ruggo's lair often has one 15:51 <@Shadow_Rider> i didn't think about them, i've probably left a bunch of them on the ground because i mostly ignore gray stones 15:52 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Sam Hum Mal Law), 24540 points, T:7679, choked on a Grey-elf corpse 15:52 whoops 15:52 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 15:52 lol i have died so many times to sleep rays my mindset was "gotta eat all these damn elves even if it kills me" 15:52 and so it did..... so it did... 15:53 [hdf-us] [nh343] samiam (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 11553 points, T:4880, killed by a soldier ant 15:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:13785 15:54 and I found an altar! 15:54 \o/ 15:55 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Arc Ang Nbn Law), 872 points, T:1332, killed by a gnome lord 15:56 doh qt 15:56 /o\ 15:59 i said 'y' to the 'keep eating?' prompt like 9 times in a row so i'm not surprised it backfired eventually :) 16:00 <@Shadow_Rider> me irl 16:00 <@Shadow_Rider> wait 16:00 lol 16:01 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:29354 16:01 'lo. 16:01 'i. 16:02 [hdf-eu] [un] muahdib (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) entered Moria, on T:20459, rt[2:47:13] 16:03 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Ran Dwa Nbn Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1019 16:04 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on Dlvl:42, on T:42190 16:05 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:42198 16:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:15613 16:10 [hdf-us] [slth] shadowrider38 (Bar Dop Mal Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 gauntlets of reflection", on T:34583 16:11 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Ran Dwa Nbn Law), 1581 points, T:2282, killed by a giant spider 16:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Cav Gno Mal Neu), 1724 points, T:2505, killed by a wolf 16:13 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the Platinum Dragon, on T:40707 16:14 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 16:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non), 6811 points, T:2594, killed by a quasit, while praying 16:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) was crowned "The Hand of Elbereth" by Tyr, on T:16124 16:16 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:42212 16:18 [hdf-us] [slth] shadowrider38 (Bar Dop Mal Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 bat from hell", on T:34588 16:18 <@Shadow_Rider> oops 16:18 <@Shadow_Rider> i should have thought about that first 16:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law), 202 points, T:179, killed by an acid blob 16:19 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "magic marker", on T:42252 16:19 <@ichbinmiah> For only $4.99 you can change your wish, Shadow_Rider! 16:19 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "magic marker", on T:42252 16:19 lol 16:19 <@Shadow_Rider> lmao 16:20 haha 16:20 bat from hell \o/ 16:20 <@Shadow_Rider> ive generated like a million artifacts so i didn't get it 16:20 aw 16:20 [hdf-us] [un] timelost (Val Hum Fem Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:6760, rt[1:59:46] 16:20 might be able to sac for it at least 16:20 <@Shadow_Rider> i kinda didn't think because it was a smoky wish on accident 16:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2098 16:21 <@Shadow_Rider> terminal has hung up so many times recently so i rushed 16:23 aosdict: >I've watched GnollHack over its checkered history of the past two years, from sexist "men are strong, women are weak" 16:23 that is a gross overexaggeration 16:23 if you wanna debate my reddit comments, do it on reddit 16:24 ok 16:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) killed Shelob, on T:26094 16:25 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Oona, on T:41450 16:25 <@Doesnt> i am also curious about that, having not watched gnollhack at all 16:26 to be fair, it is another thing they took out following immediate community backlash 16:26 I've seen other RLs do the exact same thing without any controversy 16:26 <@Doesnt> that's good 16:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1190 16:26 ADOM gives males +1str and females +1dex 16:26 for example 16:26 -!- fakepass has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27 (which is what gnollhack did IIRC) 16:27 I think gnollhack is pretty fun 16:27 I don't seee that as any better or worse than the couple of differences NH already has 16:27 would recommend giving it a go, there's really interesting ideas in there 16:27 *see 16:27 amateurhour: tbh i'm not interested if i cant be a weak woman 16:28 hah 16:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non), 8078 points, T:3024, killed by a Grey-elf 16:30 Thing about that if I remember right is there was no real reason for that arbitrary diff. and it hadn't existed in NetHack before 16:30 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:42371 16:30 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Fem Una) completed Sokoban, acquiring a magic marker, on T:32632 16:30 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:42377 16:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law), 671 points, T:1700, killed by an acid blob 16:31 FIQ: it's not uncommon especially in older CRPGs, but why go out of your way to add it to a game that traditionally doesn't have it? it doesn't add much and is also pretty lame imo 16:31 they really wanted to make there be gameplay differences but didn't know how to do it I guess 16:32 qt: I personally don't really see the issue with it, and I wouldn't really regard myself as generally sexist 16:32 <@Doesnt> is oblivion an older crpg these days 16:32 it's just pure biology to me, the fact that the average man is physically stronger doesn't mean that they're inherently better... 16:32 <@Doesnt> b/c i remember it doing it too 16:33 <@Doesnt> in a weird way that was simultaneously complicated and broken 16:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Nob Dwa Fem Law), 6184 points, T:3978, burned by a flaming sphere's explosion 16:34 <@Doesnt> i'm not a fan of stat differences on gender b/c the PC is generally not average to begin with 16:34 idk if i were a woman sitting down to play nethack i would feel pretty bleh about being reminded "btw you are inherently weaker than men", and if it doesn't add anything significant or fun to the game i don't see the point of it 16:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1297 16:34 FIQ, this isnt the hill you want to die on 16:34 qt: Dex is much better than Str anyway 16:35 that's one of my favourite idioms, the hill one 16:35 it's effectively a microaggression baked into the game 16:35 w/e I can see that I am in the minory here 16:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:17198 16:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:17199 16:35 <@Doesnt> i understand where it comes from i just think it's a bad idea with reasonable intentions 16:35 I also guess I don't really have a complete understanding of the situation since I'm male, and thus don't really suffer from sexism to the same extent 16:36 you're still invited to my bday party 16:36 its all good 16:36 <@Shadow_Rider> idk i kinda agree with fiq 16:37 anyways isn't that old news 16:37 it's not in the game anymore right? 16:37 its not afaik 16:37 seems weird for it to come up every few months 16:37 My US$ 0.02: I'm a guy, but I enjoy the idea of playing strong women in video games 16:37 <@Shadow_Rider> valk main 😛 16:37 btw one can argue that gnollhack is *less* sexist than NH 16:37 vanilla that is 16:37 my 9 yr old daughter can do more pull ups than most of the boys in her class 16:38 she can probably do more pullups than me K2 lol 16:38 hah 16:38 because they spent a lot of effort adding female versions of strictly-male monsters way before vanilla did 16:38 i taught her how to do them 16:38 (including stuff like tiles, etc) 16:38 the right way 16:38 can you teach me how to do them K2 16:38 oh, guess she's doing it all wrong then :P 16:38 jk 16:38 hahah 16:38 yeah qt its easy 16:38 qt: get bar. put hands on bar. pull self up 16:39 gee, that sounds hard 16:39 okay I'm at the bar, what drink do I order? 16:39 for a lot of ppl it is 16:39 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) killed the invisible high shaman of Moloch, on T:26640 16:39 no slacking now, I know there are these exercise things all over new york 16:39 there's one on my block but there's always guys just chilling on the equipment flexing 16:39 <@Shadow_Rider> i probably spent like a month at the bar just pulling until anything happened 16:39 what i hate seeing are people claiming to do 100 pull ups in a row and when you watch them they barely lower themselves down for the next rep 16:39 very intimidating 16:39 <@luxidream> 100 pullups kekw 16:40 if its not from a dead hang each rep, you're doing it wrong 16:40 qt: better go at 3 AM 16:40 <@luxidream> more often you see people saying 100 pushups/situps then blatantly cheating :v 16:40 <@Shadow_Rider> why all the buff dudes spend time at the gym 16:40 i just grabbed 100 as an arbitrary number heh 16:41 <@Shadow_Rider> its all us scrawnys who need to workout 16:41 <@Shadow_Rider> not the guys who are ripped from birth 16:41 aosdict: "hello, police? there's been a creepy guy in the park at 3am every night this week hanging off the pull up bars and making weird grunting noises" 16:41 I think doing pull-ups would kill my back 16:41 I've done surgery for scoliosis, so yeah 16:41 <@luxidream> how so FIQ? 16:41 <@luxidream> you're hanging from a bar 16:41 if i were to start doing them again it'd prob help my lumbar issues 16:41 @luxidream I'm not allowed to lift heavy things 16:42 because it could be bad for my back 16:42 "heavy things" presumably include "myself" 16:42 pulls up use a lot of different muscle groups 16:42 <@Zefnar> Different kind of lifting tho. Different pressure/strain 16:42 idk about your nypd precinct but mine is so ineffectual that they'd take a month to investigate, not actually do the investigation, and then tell the complainer "case closed" 16:42 <@Zefnar> I think hanging from a bar would do wonders to relieve lumbar pressure, but I am not a phys ther 16:43 back in my hey day i could knock 10 sets of 10 without any counterweight/help. today i'd be lucky to pull off 2... hell maybe even one 16:43 they interrogated me about a murder on our block one time bc someone said the shooter was at a party in my apartment 16:43 FIQ: I don't think your back would be lifting anything except the dead weight of your legs. of course consult with a medical professional 16:43 <@Zefnar> You were in the service tho right k2? 16:43 i'd think one look at me would disabuse them of the notion i have parties in my apartment but apparently not 16:43 yup 16:43 <@Zefnar> what branch? Army? 16:43 army, infantry 16:43 space force 16:43 hah 16:43 <@Zefnar> hell ye. fuck them POGs 16:43 <@Zefnar> :P 16:43 why, do you have some kind of tattoo on your forehead saying "I don't host parties"? 16:44 i have a space shuttle door gunner t-shirt 16:44 <@Zefnar> My family’s military. Brother’s infantry. 16:44 Zefnar, you? 16:44 amateurhour: yeah it was in the picture qt posted of himself that one time 16:44 ah 16:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at them by some watery tart, on T:2460 16:44 i was like 'how do you know what a POG is' 16:44 <@Zefnar> I should have joined, dad talked me out of it 16:44 <@Zefnar> C’est la vie 16:44 <@Zefnar> At least my knees still work 16:44 lucky you 16:44 i didn't ever post a picture of myself did i? 16:44 <@Zefnar> :P 16:45 i have lower back/knee and hearing issues 16:45 maybe of the top of my head with the cat 16:45 yes, the top of your head 16:45 qt i remember that one 16:45 where the tattoo is 16:45 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest1099 16:45 -!- Guest1099 has quit [Killed (copper.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 16:45 yeah i forgot if my forehead was in the picture 16:45 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 16:45 wait I think I'm confusing pull-up with another exercise (just verified what a pull-up was) 16:45 obviously it was or amateurhour wouldn't have known about the tattoo 16:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:3104 16:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] Skillfulhacks (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Fighter, on T:3178 16:46 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered the Planes, on T:43534 16:47 <@Zefnar> Anyway. I’m fairly fit but can confirm there are many women out there who would/could break me over their legs 16:47 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:42514 16:47 hah 16:48 <@nabru> I'm not exactly the fittest person out there 16:48 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:48 <@nabru> Gained a lot of weight during the pandemic 16:48 i'm not anymore. trying to get back to some level of decent fitness. my right knee had other plans last couple days 16:48 bastard 16:48 aosdict: I googled around, looks like it depends on what kind of scoliosis you have. I don't know what mine is called 16:49 nabru i gained some weight too, i could stand to shed about 20 lbs 16:49 bu ti like pizza. and ice cream 16:49 and bread 16:49 D A M M I T 16:50 <@nabru> Hahaha 16:50 <@nabru> I eat too much bread 16:51 how much is too much nabru? 16:51 <@nabru> Can eat an entire loaf in a day 16:51 3 bread 16:52 alrighty, see you all in a bit 16:52 this is reminding me that my fruitname is still "and a half loaf of baked bread" because I like irritating the pluralizer 16:52 <@Zefnar> I miss the bread in Germany :( 16:52 <@luxidream> how many breads have you eaten in your life? 16:52 <@luxidream> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjtA30DQdDU 16:52 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Sam Hum Mal Law), 3658 points, T:4087, killed by a giant leech 16:58 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) destroyed NetSysFire's ghost, the former Heretic, on T:1213 17:01 -!- amateurhour has quit [Quit: zzz] 17:03 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 2495 points, T:2790, killed by a crocodile 17:04 [hdf-us] [sp] hothraxxa (Pri Orc Fem Cha) wished for "very historic thoroughly blessed very fixed greased extinguished +5 gray dragon scale mail named i did not have to kill puff for this", on T:15134 17:04 Puff's proud of ya 17:08 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 17:08 -!- Umbire has quit [Killed (erbium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 17:08 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 17:10 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest9894 17:10 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 17:11 -!- Looksfar has joined #hardfought 17:13 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) genocided class ;, on T:43666 17:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) killed Father Dagon, on T:22569 17:13 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Pri Gia Mal Cha) defeated the invisible Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:71763 17:14 -!- Guest9894 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered the Astral Plane, on T:43861 17:21 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Pestilence, on T:43873 17:21 <@Pacra> > The iron bars corrode somewhat but remain intact. The pegasus neighs! The frost giant gets angry! The invisible Kathryn the Enchantress gets angry! 17:21 <@Pacra> uh oh 17:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Ndr-Nob Dro Fem Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:49391 17:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Ndr-Nob Dro Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:49465 17:24 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Fem Una) had a leather conical hat entrusted to her by Moloch, on T:34907 17:25 [hdf-eu] [xnh] mobileuser (Kni Hum Mal Law), 1916648 points, T:43891, ascended 17:25 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/m/mobileuser/xnethack/dumplog/1630697743.xnh.html 17:25 YOU BLEW IT 17:25 mobileuser: not you, gg! 17:25 heh 17:25 thx! 17:26 Did your steed make it to the end? 17:26 nah, I never use steeds 17:27 <@Zefnar> What are the bracket numbers {10} after each item? Weight? 17:27 Zefnar yes 17:28 Yay, personal goal of xnh 5-streak reached 17:28 all right that's it 17:28 brb adding 200% more evil to xnh 7.0 17:28 lol 17:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Ndr-Nob Dro Fem Cha) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:50157 17:29 You'll take my paranoidwater from me over my Umbire corpse! 17:29 jeez not THAT kind of evil, Umbire. what kind of maniac do you think I am? 17:30 hey YOU said 200% 17:32 [hdf-eu] [fh] Semilg (Val Dwa Fem Law), 23380 points, T:1625, killed by a small mimic 17:35 <@Zefnar> mobile user you play on a computer tho yea? There are mobile versions of nethack. I have it downloaded on iOS. It’s… garbage to play, but now I wonder if anyone has ever ascended on their phone 17:35 <@Zefnar> WITHOUT using external hardware to make the interface easier. No Bluetooth keyboards. Only touchscreen 17:36 <@nabru> I have downloaded nethack on my Android phone. nethack simply doesn't play well with a touchscreen IMHO 17:36 I think umbire plays without an external keyboard 17:36 <@nabru> However, there are people who ascender on their phones. 17:36 <@nabru> *ascended 17:37 but I agree, inethack2 is garbage 17:37 I just use the keyboard on the screen 17:37 Took a bit of fiddling to adjust to but adjust I did 17:37 Ascended even 17:37 <@Zefnar> o.O 17:38 The Gurr port is objectively better though, 17:38 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Cav Gno Nbn Neu), 36 points, T:247, killed by a sewer rat 17:38 <@Zefnar> My biggest complaint was that I couldn’t see the whole screen/Dlvl 17:38 <@Zefnar> It wants to scroll and pan around 17:38 <@Pacra> > The saddled woolly mammoth catches the eucalyptus leaf. The saddled woolly mammoth eats a blessed eucalyptus leaf. > ... > The saddled woolly mammoth dies from its infection. 17:39 That was fine for me 17:39 <@Pacra> noooooo 17:39 ...I thought that was meant to cure those illnesses? 17:39 Pacra that looks like a bug 17:39 K2: ^ 17:39 <@Zefnar> I might try it on my next longhaul travel/flight 17:40 But anyway scrolling and panning around was ideal for me since it kinda helped me focus on where I wanted to go next 17:40 Peek around the map, see if I covered everything else, then tap on my merry way 17:40 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Sam Hum Mal Law), 2579 points, T:4509, killed by an ape 17:40 iNethack2 garbage??? 17:41 where do you think I got my username from? :b 17:41 I've heard it doesn't exactly run too well 17:41 worked fine for me 17:41 I kept dying because it was interpreting my taps as "no I don't want to fight the monster, I want to wander halfway across the map" 17:41 aren't you mobi leuser ;) 17:41 yes :-) 17:41 gurr port has an option to set gestures for travel 17:41 Which I never used 17:42 so I didn't have to deal with all that nearly as much 17:42 well iNethack2 worked fine on iPad for me 17:42 iPhone is trickier 17:42 naturally 17:43 <@Zefnar> Madmen 17:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] verdeescuro (Bin Orc Fem Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3117 17:44 <@Zefnar> Price Id’ing stuff must take hours 17:44 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Wiz Gul Nbn Cha), 186 points, T:280, killed by a dwarf 17:45 I mean phones have internet :B 17:45 I never had base prices fully memorized anyway but I knew enough 17:45 backscroll... Zefnar, I've ascended every role on iNethack2, so yeah, it can be done :-) 17:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Ndr-Nob Dro Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:51373 17:47 [hdf-us] [slth] shadowrider38 (Bar Dop Mal Cha) killed the invisible Vecna, on T:38657 17:47 <@Zefnar> I am speechless 17:50 <@Shadow_Rider> ok 17:50 <@Shadow_Rider> i was in a bad spot against vecna but then my game crashed and reset the fight 17:50 <@Shadow_Rider> not going to complain ig 17:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Ndr-Nob Dro Fem Cha) destroyed Death, on T:51541 17:53 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Car Inf Mal Cha), 502 points, T:1253, killed by a razor card 17:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Nob Dro Fem Cha), 7328808 points, T:51541, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/Demo/dnethack/dumplog/1630945220.dnh.txt 17:54 congrats Demo! 17:54 <@Shadow_Rider> gg demo 17:54 <@Shadow_Rider> dang you really cranking them out 17:55 <@Shadow_Rider> i feel like you are always winning 17:55 <@Demo> blah my bot died 17:56 <@Demo> net split maybe and bad timing idk 17:57 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Fem Una) had a dagger entrusted to her by Moloch, on T:35845 17:57 -!- Demo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57 pacra how did you get the woolly mammoth to catch your eucalyptus leaf? 17:57 when i try to throw a eucalyptus leaf at a mammoth, tame or not, it never catches and eats it 17:57 this was in evilhack right? 17:57 Ye 17:57 -!- Demo has joined #hardfought 17:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Demo] by ChanServ 17:57 !ping 17:57 Demo: Pong! 17:57 -!- Demo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58 -!- Demo has joined #hardfought 17:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Demo] by ChanServ 17:59 <@Pacra> qt, it must have been desparately hungry 17:59 instead of fixing this im just gonna hope it gets better on its own 17:59 -!- Demo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59 <@Pacra> or, there's something i'd need to look about animals maybe accepting leaves if they're termIll 17:59 -!- Demo has joined #hardfought 17:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Demo] by ChanServ 18:00 <@Pacra> i didn't think it would actually eat it, but my cure sickness spell was lost, no other option 18:00 <@Pacra> interesting result 18:00 -!- tungtn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:02 GG Demo 18:03 that game was my first "real" drow ascension 18:03 cause ana drow is technically a different race internally 18:03 <@Pacra> good game sir 18:03 <@Pacra> oh it is? 18:03 myrf 18:04 now I need to ascend a gnome :( 18:04 gnome is the hardest race in dnh 18:04 H a giant humanoid (flying hill giant shaman) [seen: telepathy] 18:04 i don't think this will end well 18:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] Looksfar (Arc Hum Mal Neu) consulted the Oracle, on T:5309 18:07 hothraxxa: A flying object lesson, perhaps? 18:09 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Pri Gia Mal Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:76316 18:09 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Pri Gia Mal Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:76349 18:09 <@Pacra> Demo, why is gnome the hardest? 18:11 tl;dr dnh gnomes suck 18:11 You wanna give 'em the long version Demo? 18:13 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 18:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] Looksfar (Arc Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:5964 18:13 max carry cap without boosts is like 400 not 1000, cant wear normal sized armor, have bad tohit on normal sized weapons, bad hp growth, bad stats 18:14 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Pri Gia Mal Cha) killed Baphomet, on T:76410 18:15 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Fem Una), 73970 points, T:36757, killed by an earth elemental, while praying 18:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Nob Hlf Mal Cha) killed Father Dagon, on T:19903 18:16 -!- Sssssssssss has joined #hardfought 18:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) wished for "blessed spellbook of magic missile", on T:38573 18:17 <@Zefnar> I’m curious what other hobbies might overlap w people here 18:17 <@Zefnar> Like—does anyone fly fish? 18:18 no but i respect it 18:18 zefnar: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/wildlife-watch-feather-thief-fly-tying-birds 18:18 Fish flee my stench, apparently. 18:19 <@Zefnar> Lol yea some of those feathers are fucking expensive 18:19 <@Zefnar> Served a fly angler well to have a zookeeper friend 18:19 <@Zefnar> Or two 18:19 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Mal Una), 76 points, T:230, killed by a water moccasin 18:22 I have an Arc currently dependent on a mattock as his main weapon. Any opinions on whether or not to advance pickaxe skill to expert? Worth the short-term benefit at the expense of skill slots? 18:22 <@Shadow_Rider> yeah 18:23 <@Shadow_Rider> what is your plan longer term 18:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] NeroOneTrueKing (Bin Gno Mal Non), 2238 points, T:1790, killed by a dagger 18:24 Eventually dual-wield silver sabres 18:24 But if I die in the meantime, that doesn't help my goal. Just not sure how much survivability I glean from going to expert with the mattock. 18:26 Varies a lot Zefnar 18:26 Also mattocks aren't something you want to carry into Gehennom 18:26 <@Pacra> oh No 18:27 but they're actually not too bad damage-wise 18:27 <@Pacra> I was using fireproof water walking boots to traverse gehennom fire 18:27 What did you do 18:27 <@Pacra> but thought my stuff would be safe 18:27 You fool 18:27 I certainly don't plan to bring a 2h into Gehennom 18:27 <@Pacra> my free action ring got scorched, so I thought, OK, that's not so bad 18:27 <@Pacra> kept walking around 18:27 But the mattock is far and away my best current weapon option 18:27 <@Pacra> and about 300 turns later 18:28 <@Pacra> my BoH burns up 18:28 And remembered flammable items can get burnt away/ 18:28 *? 18:28 Right, that figures 18:28 <@Pacra> yep... 18:28 Looksfar: Watch still alive in your game? 18:28 <@Pacra> should have used a =oL 18:28 <@Pacra> time to end this char for good 18:28 <@Shadow_Rider> :(( 18:28 <@Shadow_Rider> believe 18:29 <@Pacra> there's no way I'm going to get a giant priest through all of gehennom and astral without that BoH contents 18:29 The captains, yes Umbire. 18:29 [hdf-us] [fh] kirra (zor) (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 36236 points, T:3269, killed by a rabid rat 18:29 <@Pacra> rip 18:30 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Pri Gia Mal Cha), 1763644 points, T:76997, dissolved in molten lava 18:30 <@Shadow_Rider> hey i mean you never know until you try 18:30 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) killed the Sir Garland, on T:12047 18:30 <@Pacra> it's possible, but it would be so god damned annoying 18:30 What's your pet situation looking like? 18:30 Demo: "the Sir Garland" 18:31 <@Pacra> my pet was very good, invisible pet Titan 18:31 Just a surprisingly effective large cat to this point. 18:31 I meant Looksfar 18:31 Ah 18:31 Can you supply healing? 18:31 <@Zefnar> Hey pacra I didn’t think I would ascend when I blew up my bag but I did 18:31 <@Pacra> upgraded everything, but he's useless compared to alhoons/player monsters 18:31 <@Zefnar> pray to RNGesus and just press forward 18:31 <@Pacra> Zefnar, what game was that? 18:31 <@Shadow_Rider> it was vanilla lol 18:31 Not really up to killing the captain. No, no spells. I contemplated using a bullwhip to disarm one, but I think that angers all the rest. 18:31 <@Zefnar> Elf ranger ascension, grabbed amulet, drank cursed gain level to leave — 18:31 <@Shadow_Rider> the contents weren't even that destroyed 18:31 <@Zefnar> Oh yes it was 3.7 18:32 <@Shadow_Rider> all of pacra's stuff is gone 18:32 <@Pacra> if I blow up my bag of holding in vanilla, that's nothing too bad 18:32 <@Pacra> vanilla is fine to lose your stash 18:32 [hdf-us] [evil] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Charon, on T:56065 18:33 I mean same in EvilHack 18:33 <@Pacra> I disagree, lol 18:33 The real difference is you were over fucking lava 18:33 <@Pacra> yes 18:33 Also people still ragequit from losing their entire BoH 18:33 Or a significant chunk of the contents anyway 18:34 <@Shadow_Rider> pacra do you still have that slashthem game going 18:37 <@Pacra> Shadow_Rider, I do, I am at the wizard's level 18:37 <@nabru> A while ago I rage quit because I blew up my BoH 18:37 <@nabru> In my current game I am being extra careful 18:37 <@Pacra> I understand anyone's option to just stop playing because of BoH ending 18:38 <@Pacra> although I'd personally say it's fine in vanilla or any variant that scatters your contents 18:38 <@Pacra> but since I was dumb enough to think it wouldn't have burned up in lava 18:38 <@nabru> I have another BoH in my stash, hope I don't need it at all 18:38 <@Pacra> I deserve that char to stay in the lava 18:40 <@nabru> !ping 18:40 @nabru: Pong! 18:44 NCommander: Hello :) 18:44 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Dra Dro Nbn Neu), 1223 points, T:1858, killed by a crossbow bolt 18:45 Do you guyz know if the facebook AI challenge have a bot that win a nethack game ? 18:48 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) was given the Scalpel of Life and Death, on T:13187 18:50 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 838 points, T:2181, killed by a giant bat 18:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Ran Hlf Mal Neu), 1089 points, T:1274, killed by a dwarf 18:52 [hdf-us] [sp] hothraxxa (Pri Orc Fem Cha) was chosen to steal souls for the Glory of Anshar, on T:16622 18:52 well that was easier than expected 18:53 Woah. That moment when you realize that wand you picked up on the first level of Soko-ban was actually a wand of death... 18:53 I figured it was sleep. So very glad I sent it down an open corridor, and not towards something with a wall behind 'em... 18:54 Always test your wands, folks 18:54 Always practice safe wanding. 18:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bin Gno Mal Non), 284 points, T:526, killed by a small mimic 18:55 the duality of eurynome 18:56 [hdf-us] [evil] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:56937 18:57 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Mal Una) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:4002 18:57 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58 [hdf-us] [nh343] ripley (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:18573 18:58 Is the nymph level really that different between SLASH'EM and UnNetHack 18:58 -!- Looksfar has quit [Quit: Pizza night!] 18:58 scj643, this is an oddly small Internet 18:59 Because between pondering that and the fact the link for the former is just a subsection a few sentences long 18:59 wondering if there shouldn't be a single article or something 19:01 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Car Gul Mal Cha), 282 points, T:847, killed by a bugbear 19:01 Also wondering which variant was the first to include the nymph level/Aphrodite 19:02 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02 well this sucks. getting crowned did not unlock broadsword 19:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bin Gno Mal Non), 1516 points, T:1304, killed by a djinni 19:03 that djinni wanted some 19:04 he was definitely that kind of a guy 19:05 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 19:05 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 19:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] NeroOneTrueKing (Ran Hum Fem Cha), 7712 points, T:2933, killed by a dwarf, while sleeping 19:13 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13 <@Pacra> really? huh 19:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] Leggman (Bar Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Bandit, on T:3551 19:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bin Gno Mal Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1530 19:18 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Mal Una), 4260 points, T:5235, killed by a champion of Grumbar 19:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] Leggman (Bar Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Bartlem's ghost, the former Novice, on T:4372 19:23 -!- x86Cow has joined #hardfought 19:23 Hey yall 19:25 <@nabru> Hey 19:25 Hello @nabru, Welcome to #hardfought 19:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Leggman (Bar Hum Mal Neu) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:4625 19:26 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 19:27 'lo 19:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] Leggman (Bar Hum Mal Neu), 3318 points, T:4787, killed by a dwarf, while frozen by a potion 19:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] x86Cow (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) murdered his faithful kitten, on T:514 19:29 rip 19:35 <@nabru> Poor kitten 19:35 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1607 points, T:3478, killed by a greater homunculus called Hecubus, while sleeping 19:36 <@Pacra> why does that greater homunculus have a thrice-damned unicorn horn 19:36 <@Pacra> that absolutely ruined me haha 19:36 ais523: I wanted to ask (because I've seen occasions like it before and i never really understood it), what is the danger behind something being interpreted as legal advice? 19:36 for the one giving the advice, that is (i.e. in cases where it's implicitly not legal advice) 19:37 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 19:37 Homunculi can pick up and use items 19:37 CYA for the person taking your advice, bad things happening, and then they sue you for saying "they gave me legal advice", I think 19:37 FIQ: It's mostly overblown but if someone might reasonably believe you were a lawyer etc they could sue you (and win, more importantly) for negligence 19:37 They're great for robbing stores with as an infidel 19:38 Pinkbeast: I thought that was a US thing? 19:38 I know that ais523 for instance lives in UK (unless that changed since) 19:38 I don't know how it translates to a less lawsuit-happy country than the US 19:38 -!- Sssssssssss has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:39 FIQ: The US is not _as_ lawsuit happy (or other countries as not) as popular belief would say (eg, no-one actually sued for putting their Winnebago on cruise control and both going into the back room, the McDonalds coffee thing wasn't bogus...) 19:39 you're way wrong there 19:40 you're conflating popular myths with how many frivolous lawsuits get filed 19:40 Conversely saying "not legal advice" is not a magic expression anymore than the cryptocurrency cultists' favourite expression "not financial advice" is after a paragraph of financial advice 19:40 oh I know about the mcdonalds case, and the true version of it 19:40 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry about my connection] 19:40 hothraxxa: I am not; the US is not as overrun with frivolous lawsuits as popular belief supposes. 19:40 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 19:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bin Gno Mal Non), 16915 points, T:4144, killed by a fire ant 19:41 burnt off too much sanity to play 19:41 hothraxxa: dunno if you heard about Texas, but uh, there's gonna be a lot of frivolous lawsuits coming 19:41 FIQ: there are two main dangers; a) in some places successfully fooling someone into thinking you're a lawyer can get you into legal trouble (either regardless, or if the advice is bad), and b) it can cause legal problems if you tell someone that something is OK and then change your mind and try to sue them about it later 19:41 aosdict: ? 19:41 ais523: ah 19:41 <@nabru> Brazilians are also very lawsuit-happy; also, you need to be a registered lawyer to provide legal advice, or someone might sue you 19:42 aosdict: The horrible development in Texas is surely that those lawsuits are not frivolous 19:42 -!- ais523 has quit [Client Quit] 19:42 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 19:42 everything i say and have ever said ever does not constitute as legal advice 19:43 IRC is so tedious to use nowadays – not only does it keep disconnecting (due to a dodgy Internet connection), but nowadays my client tends to segfault upon reconnection 19:43 so I have to close it and reopen it to reconnect 19:43 "If anyone disagrees with any statement I have ever made, I am quite willing not just to retract it but to deny under oath I ever made it." -- Tom Lehrer 19:43 that's part of the reason I don't idle here much nowadays 19:43 <@nabru> The same for financial advice, so a lot of those crypto dudes will say they're "not providing financial advice" while... Providing financial advice thinly disguised as "the best cryptos to buy" 19:44 ais523: have you considered a bouncer? 19:44 Pinkbeast: I assume Tom Lehrer denies ever having said that? 19:44 Pinkbeast: I'm expecting a lot of "I have money and you don't and therefore I am going to hassle you by suing you and if you fail to spend money defending yourself I get $10000 plus my attorney's fees" 19:44 FIQ: it wouldn't help from my point of view at all, the client would still keep crashing 19:44 why does your irc client crash? 19:44 ais523: I meant for the disconnect problem. I figured the client problem was easier to fix 19:44 throw it away 19:44 and get a new one 19:44 than a dodgy internet 19:44 or write ur own 19:44 nabru: right, but that's not a freeman-on-the-land style magic bullet, unsurprisingly it's more or less financial advice if a court thinks it was 19:45 idk what client you have, but segfaults sounds major enough that someone else using it probably encountered the same issue 19:45 I don't like bouncers, though, because they make it unclear who's "in" the channel 19:45 FIQ: Konversation, and it never used to do this 19:45 ok but that is already plenty muddled 19:45 it's probably been fixed already but I prefer to use distro packages when possible 19:45 like half the people here use bouncers 19:45 [hdf-us] [evil] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) defeated Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:57683 19:45 my weechat is on my VPS 19:45 aosdict: I know, and I don't like it, but it isn't my decision 19:45 aosdict: I think that'll be lost in the tide of women being sued non-frivolously (by which I mean "the case is likely to succeed if the law is followed", not endorsing the particular law etc etc) 19:46 and there's also a substantial portion of this channel who is actually on Discord side 19:46 which has even less clear info on who is around 19:46 fwiw, in many channels, I primarily logread and join only when I have something to say, which is sort-of the opposite of being a bouncer 19:46 <@nabru> I use discord when I'm on my phone, mostly 19:46 people will happily ping me when I'm not in the channel, knowing that I'll eventually see it in the logs and reply 19:46 Pinkbeast: as the law is written you can't actually sue the woman in question. only aiders and abettors 19:46 that's pretty much why people use bouncers in the first place... 19:47 people ping me, or whoever, and I'll respond when I get back on 19:47 aosdict: Oh? Well, that's something. See, don't take anything I say as legal advice. :-) 19:48 they would _like_ you to be able to do that, but it's written like that to wiggle around a previous supreme court precedent 19:49 FIQ: almost every channel has a bot for delayed pings, though 19:51 sorry had to step away for a bit 19:51 first, "lawsuit happy" is not measured by the number of frivolous lawsuits, it is the number of lawsuits filed 19:51 second, the data is hard to come by but the us files about 50% more lawsuits per capita than the uk, and almost four times as many as canada 19:53 It figures that having a massive amount of lawsuits filed would mean more frivolous lawsuits on average 19:53 from a very basic perspective, anyway 19:53 frivolous is defined and handled differently in each of those countries, so... 19:53 Good point hothraxxa, there's subjectivity in determining whether a lawsuit is frivolous 19:54 im suing hdf for emotional dmgs 19:54 my character died and it didnt even offer me to spent 0.99 to revive it 19:54 dismissed. frivolous. 19:54 I did say "very basic perspective" for a reason 19:54 :B 19:55 i mean, the trump team filed a massive number of lawsuits contesting the election results. quite a few of them were tossed as being frivolous but we all know that all of them were 19:55 this reminds me, did Looksfar's NAO game ever get fixed? 19:57 i have a dnh game on hdf that is brokenb 19:57 i can autorecover into it but i cant save or it crashes 19:57 i also dont care 19:57 its on Demo[?] 19:58 <@nabru> I want to be such a good player that my games break 19:58 <@nabru> *that I manage to break games 19:59 there used to be a few pretty reliable ways to break NetHack, but we tend to patch them out when we learn about them 20:01 im bad on my computer so my games break 20:02 …come to think of it, it makes sense that gamebreaking bugs normally only affect games that are going really well 20:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bin Gno Mal Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1939 20:02 because for a bug not to have been found yet, it'd have to only trigger in some set of circumstances that don't normally happen 20:03 and if it could be triggered in the early game, it'd probably be found pretty quickly 20:03 <@nabru> Indeed 20:03 is there any way for a monster in vanilla to knock another monster off the level? 20:05 I think monsters can only leave the level as part of their own action, but, e.g., a monster could be carrying a cursed potion of gain level to allow a nymph to steal it and leave the level that way 20:05 I don't think there's any "direct" way it could happen though 20:06 The stone giant smashes the kobold! The kobold is driven through the floor! 20:06 <@Pacra> i like it 20:06 its an extreme assumption vanilla makes 20:07 [hdf-us] [un] timelost (Val Hum Fem Neu), 15585 points, T:8049, petrified by touching a cockatrice corpse bare-handed 20:07 so if a variant makes it possible somehow, it allows for incredibly rare bugs 20:07 oh right, NetHack hates monsters getting removed from the monster list while it's iterating over them 20:07 a monster knocks the monster off of it on the list off the level, you end up running the monster move loop on the migrating list 20:07 the monster after it on the list* 20:08 that's why if a monster dies on the monster turn, it gets changed into a placeholder monster until the player's next turn starts, and then gets removed properly at that point 20:08 -!- Sluggoman has joined #hardfought 20:08 (this is rarely visible to players, but if you ever see an impossible talking about "dmonsfree", which seems to be quite a common impossible to hit in variants, this is the mechanism that's gone wrong) 20:09 dmonsfree impossible is so stupid 20:09 it ought to track things better and give actually useful debug output 20:09 Umbire: did it... create a hole? 20:09 oh I failed to read context 20:10 It'd be p. difficult to program that possibility in I'd think 20:10 ...buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it'd be funny 20:10 Question: how do I destroy iron bars while wielding a potion of acid? If I throw I miss the bars - if I wield it, I can't figure out how to hit with the potion. 20:10 [F] 20:10 Like with any wielded potion 20:10 Demo: I think the game just counts the number of dead monsters that there are and that there are supposed to be and complains when there's a mismatch, it has as little idea of what specifically went wrong as the dev does after seeing the message 20:10 Demo: huh, so any variant that has knockback, like splice, is vulnerable to such a thing 20:10 ais523: that mantra doesn't always hold true 20:11 Or EvilHack 20:11 Hunh. awesome, thanks. 20:11 TwitchPlaysPokemon is very good at finding bizarre bugs, because TPP doesn't exactly play games like a normal human being 20:11 In practice, across all variants it'd probably happen with stuff like monk kicks 20:11 [hdf-us] [un] timelost (Val Hum Fem Neu) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:1070, rt[0:04:20] 20:11 so you can argue that new players could be better at finding bizarre bugs, because they'd play in ways that no veterans do 20:11 aosdict, idk. my statement is true for 343 based variants 20:11 not sure if 36 changes it 20:12 but it stores a ptr to the next monster on the list before it runs the actions of a monster 20:12 it looks like this is still the case 20:12 nice 20:12 yeah its incredibly rare 20:13 found it with fuzzer in dnh and nero helped unpack what was actually going on 20:13 but the alternative is allowing a monster to get destroyed and then try to ->nmon it 20:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) murdered Oreo, his faithful kitten, on T:1442 20:13 yeah thats a lot more likely that a monster knocks itself off the level 20:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law), 497 points, T:1494, killed by a wand, while frozen by a floating eye's gaze 20:13 so what happens if a monster knocks the next monster on the list off the level, and dies in the process? 20:13 dead monsters still have valid nmon ptrs 20:13 im pretty sure 20:13 they arent removed til later 20:14 yes 20:14 exactly 20:14 that's what dmonsfree does 20:14 it removes dead monsters 20:14 it's basically a garbage collector 20:14 ok so what happens if a monster knocks the next monster and itself off the level at once 20:14 now if it was thrown on the migrating list cause it drank cursed gain level, then nmon would point to what used to be the first item on the migrating lsit 20:14 which would be no good 20:14 aosdict: it would break the monster iteration system 20:14 the solution here is to store the next monsters 20:14 but also verify it isnt on the migrating list 20:14 I intend to review this in fiqhack at some point but haven't bothered yet 20:15 aosdict: I picture that as it Bowser-slamming them off the level 20:15 dead monsters can exist on the list already im pretty sure without it being a problem as it checks to make sure they arent dead before giving them a turn 20:15 the REAL bug nobody gives a fuck about is the SIGHUP handler 20:15 basically, anything that would cause a change to the monlist chain would cause the mon action iterator to restart the itration 20:15 if you hang up on the more prompt of loading a game, the save is destroyed 20:15 Demo: but what do you do if it is on the migrating list? should it just copy the whole monlist into an array? 20:15 is what i want to do 20:15 in every variant except nh4 based 20:16 then youre kinda fucked yeah lol 20:17 aosdict: probably the best solution, yes 20:17 @Kes is it possible in splice for a monster to knock another monster off level and also go off level itself? fun bug 20:17 yeah i think so as well 20:17 create a second linked list in addition to nmon 20:17 oh gods 20:18 similar to nexthere for objects 20:18 i would copy all the ptrs somewhere else 20:18 and then run it against those monsters as long as they arent migrating 20:18 that's basically what I'm proposing, although no need to copy lists over 20:19 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) killed the invisible Medusa, on T:18695 20:19 just start with level->monlist and write nmon to orig_nmon or whatever when you want to iterate the monlist for mon actions 20:19 for all the monsters 20:19 the startup company solution: just replace monlist with a hash map 20:19 and then iterate through that 20:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] LythariDrow (Pri Elf Mal Cha) made his first wish - "+2 blessed fixed greased gray dragon scale mail", on T:566 20:20 [hdf-us] [un] timelost (Val Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown, on T:2096, rt[0:12:41] 20:20 FIQ: if that's the only purpose of the list I think it's cleaner to not do a multiply-linked list and just stuff pointers into a temp array 20:21 is there a counter for number of monsters on the level? 20:21 aosdict: as long as this doesn't need to be preserved until the next player input (i.e. when the player can save the game), it would work 20:21 Demo: scrolls of create monster + monster levelports can throw things off 20:21 or would we have to pass through the monsters list once to see how many monsters there are, calloc our array, and then pass through it again to store all the ptrs 20:21 if you were to use something like that 20:22 ^ that's the sort of thing that makes me prefer an orig_nmon solution 20:22 since it doesn't require any additional memory management considering you have all the data already 20:23 it doesn't require any alloc() calls but it requires a lot of tangly memory management in the form of detaching and maintaining those orig_nmon links 20:25 not really 20:25 no monster is going to be deallocated until dmonsfree which runs after the iteration 20:26 so you can just naively iterate through orig_nmon kinda like what the current system does, except without potential for crazy bugs 20:26 yeah 20:27 that would work 20:27 if this is the only time orig_nmon ever gets used, then I suppose 20:28 an extra 8 bytes on every single mon struct??? you really think we can afford that fiq? 20:30 <@nabru> I have a few spare bytes here if you need it 20:30 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Ogresmasher", on T:19363 20:31 Demo: was going to say "don't you mean 4 bytes" 20:31 but no, we're in the 64bit world now 20:31 clearly I need to get with the times 20:32 ndnh adds an extra... 2? bits to every rm struct 20:32 yeah ok it does 20:32 for the one branch that runs conway game of life 20:32 that's far mor substatnial 20:32 yeah 20:32 because there are like 1M of those structs in an average game I think? 20:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Mon Swn Fem Cha), 15535 points, T:2864, killed by a human mummy 20:32 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) wished for "blessed tinning kit", on T:19374 20:33 oh no, 14 MB of data? how will we ever store that? 20:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] Leggman (Val Dwa Fem Law), 733 points, T:1710, killed by a rothe 20:36 -!- tungtn has joined #hardfought 20:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v tungtn] by ChanServ 20:37 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Con Dwa Fem Cha), 25 points, T:251, killed by a kobold 20:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Bin Gno Mal Non) wished for "Blessed +3 fixed premium heart", on T:3170 20:40 ^ fuck 20:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:39045 20:43 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:61596 20:47 !setmintc 200000 20:47 Demo: [hdf-au][hdf-eu][hdf-us] Min reported turncount for demo set to 200000 20:57 -!- tacco has quit [] 20:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed the invisible Oona, on T:39774 21:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] LythariDrow (Pri Elf Mal Cha) destroyed arbelf's ghost, the former Cutpurse, on T:3210 21:00 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) wished for "blessed ring of free action", on T:20914 21:01 [hdf-us] [un] timelost (Val Hum Fem Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:7337, rt[0:53:47] 21:02 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 21:03 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest3280 21:03 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 21:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Nob Hlf Mal Cha) killed Axus, on T:20162 21:05 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a xorn, on T:62483 21:06 -!- Guest3280 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) was given their Quest, on T:21427 21:11 -!- Kilroy has quit [Quit: Client closed] 21:15 -!- froggles has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] Glord (Arc Gno Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:1342 21:23 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) wished for "blessed +2 quicksilver", on T:23812 21:24 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 21:24 !setmintc 200 21:24 Demo: [hdf-eu][hdf-au][hdf-us] Min reported turncount for demo set to 200 21:25 <@nabru> !setmintc 21:25 @nabru: No min turncount for @nabru 21:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) averted death, on T:25192 21:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) averted death, on T:25192 21:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha), 1371955 points, T:25192, killed by brainlessness 21:30 !lastgame Som 21:30 Demo: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/S/Som/dnethack/dumplog/1631023320.dnh.txt 21:31 i still consider this behavior a fuckup 21:31 i dont know why dnh doesnt change it 21:32 Panic looped to death 21:32 gross 21:32 that looks like straight horseshit 21:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] LythariDrow (Pri Elf Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:5613 21:36 oh, not panic in the code-internals sense, but an in-game mechanic 21:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Fem Law) had Trollsbane bestowed upon her by Lugh, on T:13366 21:39 life saving can save you from a lot worse shit than having your brain eaten 21:40 -!- cathartes has joined #hardfought 21:44 It does save you from brain eating 21:44 But it doesn't restore the brain 21:45 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) killed the Cyclops, on T:24769 21:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] Glord (Arc Gno Mal Neu) attained the rank of Field Worker, on T:3170 21:50 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Inf Ith Mal Una) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4290 21:50 I actually think that one of the main problems here is that one of the strengths of NetHack is that it usually gives you a warning (HP dropping rapidly), and a chance to use escape items or similar strategies, when you get into trouble 21:50 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Inf Ith Mal Una), 3619 points, T:4298, poisoned by a rotted Mordor orc corpse, while praying 21:50 there are a few cases where it doesn't (e.g. deadly poison), and those tend to be very unpopular 21:51 <@Pacra> Umbire, what's your early game infidel altar strat? 21:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Bar Vam Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:407 21:51 Don't have one yet :v 21:51 Dunno why you keep asking me either :n 21:51 When there's better Evil players around by far 21:51 <@Pacra> I'm wondering how I can take on minetown at around that turncount 21:52 <@Pacra> just, you were playing quite a few of them : ] 21:52 That's all it was 21:52 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry about my connection] 21:52 and I've been brainstorming that while I take a break from them lol 21:52 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 21:52 You'd probably have to luck into a kitted-out dwarf 21:53 Then anger the watch yourself, lure them off-level and kill them one by one 21:53 Save the priest for last 21:53 Of course, there's the issue of being prepped for the priest themselves 21:53 And you'll still be pressed to do that in 6k turns even with dorf luck 21:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] Glord (Arc Gno Mal Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon him by Camaxtli, on T:3986 21:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) was given their Quest, on T:28214 21:58 [hdf-us] [ndnh] malor (Hea Eth Mal Neu) became the Messenger of Hermes, on T:25521 21:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] LythariDrow (Pri Elf Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:6695 21:58 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Inf Ith Mal Una), 558 points, T:1243, killed by a wand 21:58 <@Pacra> ack 21:58 [hdf-us] [un] timelost (Val Hum Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:9952, rt[1:51:24] 21:59 -!- spicyCebolla has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59 Whatever approach I'd figure out anyway, it'd be absolutely vital to save fire horn charges 22:02 <@Pacra> zombies seem to be even more of an issue than usual 22:02 <@Pacra> you don't get a mulligan 22:04 <@Pacra> is cursing your weapon beneficial at all, I wonder? 22:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] Glord (Arc Gno Mal Neu) attained the rank of Investigator, on T:4861 22:05 Possibly? 22:05 I mean in normal circumstances apparently some people do it to prevent a weapon being stolen 22:05 Based on something I spotted on a dnh page 22:05 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) killed Asmodeus, on T:34496 22:06 But you're weldproof as an Infidel so 22:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] LythariDrow (Pri Elf Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:7346 22:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) killed Master Kaen, on T:28858 22:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] LythariDrow (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 15160 points, T:7419, killed by a rothe, while praying 22:14 [hdf-us] [evil] Umbire (Hea Hob Fem Neu), 546 points, T:2334, caught herself in her own burning oil 22:14 Fuck you I had that thrown at me 22:15 ha 22:15 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 22:15 [hdf-us] [un] timelost (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Aphrodite, on T:11165 22:16 <@Pacra> ugh, I have the worst mines start ever 22:16 Speaking of Aphrodite... 22:18 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Inf Ith Mal Una) destroyed dingotron's ghost, the former Inmate, on T:2088 22:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:34772 22:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) destroyed Lich, the Fiend of Earth, on T:44180 22:21 <@riker> learned today the composer for the soundtrack for planescape: torment was a member of starship for a bit 22:22 <@riker> only on love amongst the cannibals but still neat 22:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed the Nightmare, on T:44206 22:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 846 points, T:2039, killed by a hobgoblin 22:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:19109 22:38 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Mon Inc Mal Law) wished for "blessed spellbook of detect treasure", on T:30380 22:39 !rng continue playing | go to bed 22:39 nabru: continue playing 22:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:17155 22:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed Kary, the Fiend of Fire, on T:45575 22:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "3 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:17239 22:43 [hdf-us] [xnh] vvvgrtvvv (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 26 points, T:200, killed by kicking a wall 22:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:17240 22:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Nob Hlf Mal Cha) wished for "blessed figurine of a ki-rin", on T:20569 22:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed Kraken, the Fiend of Water, on T:45844 22:50 <@JesseB34R> is the server super slow rn for you guys as well? 22:50 <@JesseB34R> or is that on my side3 22:50 [hdf-us] [xnh] vvvgrtvvv (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 9 points, T:61, killed by a goblin 22:50 Probably your side 22:51 <@JesseB34R> hmm rip 22:51 <@JesseB34R> ok 22:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed Tiamat, the Fiend of Wind, on T:46107 22:54 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Inf Ith Mal Una) eschewed atheism, by dropping 4 daggers on an altar, on T:6882 22:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed Garland, on T:46257 22:56 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Inf Ith Mal Una), 7082 points, T:7334, killed by a crocodile 22:56 <@Pacra> brutal spiral game 22:56 <@Pacra> lol 22:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed Chaos, on T:46300 22:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:3749 23:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:3907 23:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 5 daggers on an altar, on T:3914 23:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed fixed +2 gauntlets of power", on T:3996 23:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] jesseb34r (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 652 points, T:1180, killed by a giant bat, while dressing up 23:06 -!- qt has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Fem Neu) killed Baalzebub, on T:36797 23:08 [hdf-us] [xnh] vvvgrtvvv (Pri Hum Fem Law), 124 points, T:1146, killed by a small mimic 23:14 -!- Looksfar has joined #hardfought 23:16 [hdf-us] [evil] Umbire (Hea Dwa Fem Neu), 357 points, T:1193, choked on a human corpse 23:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:21307 23:16 !lastgame Umbire 23:16 nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/U/Umbire/evilhack/dumplog/1631067365.evil.html 23:16 lol expected the warning, forgot nutrition goes high enough that anything at all would push me over 23:16 Remember to chew your food before swallowing! 23:16 Not like I was too invested in that char anyway 23:20 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Inf Ith Mal Una), 3857 points, T:4448, killed by a gnoll 23:20 <@Pacra> OK, enough of inf ith for a bit 23:20 whatcha gonna try next Pacra? 23:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] jesseb34r (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 470 points, T:1467, killed by a giant bat 23:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] jesseb34r (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 244 points, T:419, killed by a dwarf 23:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] jesseb34r (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 174 points, T:668, killed by a bolt of cold 23:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] smzp (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 512 points, T:753, killed by a dwarf 23:34 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Mal Una), 809 points, T:1315, killed by a giant rat 23:34 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Mal Una), 28 points, T:11, killed by strangulation 23:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] smzp (Kni Hum Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 23:35 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 1160 points, T:1459, killed by a hill orc, while sleeping 23:36 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Inf Ith Mal Una), 130 points, T:276, killed by a water moccasin 23:36 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 23:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] RedArrow (Pri Hum Fem Law) destroyed smzp's ghost, the former Novice, on T:1647 23:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] RedArrow (Pri Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2029 23:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:38330 23:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Mal Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:38333 23:46 [hdf-us] [xnh] MrsCasaubon (Ran Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed rustproof gauntlets of power", on T:38351 23:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] smzp (Kni Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1657 23:47 [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 431 points, T:2131, zombified by a kobold zombie, while praying 23:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] Looksfar (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 10051 points, T:10025, petrified by a cockatrice 23:52 New moon can f right off. 23:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] jesseb34r (Tou Hum Mal Neu) stole 133 zorkmids worth of merchandise from Inuvik's general store, on T:1377 23:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Nob Hlf Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:20833 23:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] smzp (Kni Hum Fem Law), 2592 points, T:2463, killed by a Woodland-elf 23:57 !who 23:57 K2: [hdf-us] Glord [nh370] jesseb34r [nh370] lurchy [nh370] Looksfar [nh370] KrO2 [dnh] Som [dnh] MrsCasaubon [xnh] luxor [slshm] Cronos [evil] Pacra [evil] Umbire [evil] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 23:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] jesseb34r (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 144 points, T:378, killed by a small mimic