00:06 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2981 points, T:2344, killed by a gnome queen 00:13 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought 00:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] ezion (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 539 points, T:1588, killed by an uninjured homunculus 00:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:3173 00:17 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:13105 00:25 [hdf-us] [slshm] ucbvax (Wiz Dop Fem Cha), 72447 points, T:12029, killed by an air elemental 00:41 -!- stenno3 has joined #hardfought 00:47 -!- stenno3 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:52 [hdf-us] [nh343] smzp (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 2433 points, T:2751, killed by a wolf, while fainted from lack of food 01:00 [hdf-us] [nh343] smzp (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 748 points, T:1410, killed by a giant bat 01:04 [hdf-us] [evil] guest99987 (Inf Ith Mal Una), 1073 points, T:1948, killed by a water moccasin 01:14 [hdf-us] [nh343] smzp (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 2586 points, T:2519, killed by a land mine 01:18 -!- ilbelkyr has joined #hardfought 01:20 -!- nicole has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21 -!- ilbelkyr is now known as nicole 01:31 -!- stenno3 has joined #hardfought 01:44 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 366 points, T:574, killed by a red mold 01:48 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:49 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Mal Neu) used a helm to turn lawful, on T:683 02:06 [hdf-us] [nh343] smzp (Pri Hum Mal Cha), 2151 points, T:3027, killed by a hill orc 02:06 -!- stenno3 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:09 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Mal Law), 2266 points, T:2019, poisoned by a giant mosquito 02:12 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:17 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 02:31 [hdf-us] [un] smzp (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 4735 points, T:5439, killed by a stone giant 02:42 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 02:54 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 03:04 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 03:17 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed ring of slow digestion", on T:28899 03:26 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:3427 03:27 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:6681 03:31 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed wand of death", on T:28901 03:32 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) wished for "fixed magic marker", on T:28902 03:37 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 11073 points, T:7713, killed by a lynx 03:38 [hdf-au] [dyn] chao (PeachMuffin) (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 3927 points, T:2327, killed by a dwarf 03:38 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:4931 03:53 -!- Gaelan_ is now known as Gaelan 03:56 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 9835 points, T:6224, killed by a shattered potion 03:59 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 04:02 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:04 -!- stenno3 has joined #hardfought 04:08 -!- stenno3 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:13 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 04:14 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought 04:19 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:35 -!- Xjs has joined #hardfought 05:05 -!- stenno3 has joined #hardfought 05:18 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:20 -!- Xjs has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:28 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 05:36 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 05:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 05:37 did you nerf the hand of vecna Amy? 05:37 amateurhour: yeah of course 05:37 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 05:37 :| how did you nerf it? 05:38 it gives its effects only when wìelded 05:38 :| 05:38 because seriously, its original incarnation was soooooooo grossly overpowered, what were the devs thinking :P 05:39 slex won't have such imbalances obviously 05:39 it's not that overpowered, you have to take on an optional difficult boss fight and there's a lot of strong endgame monsters anyway 05:39 tougher ones than vanilla 05:40 cold resistance, half physical and hungerless regeneration when carried, come the **** on. if that's not unbalanced, I don't know what is 05:41 imagine getting rewarded for doing the dangerquest 05:41 anyway I sure hope you're not trying to make me un-nerf it here, because you know that won't work :P 05:42 also the quest is full of spellbooks and other stuff, which is its own reward already 05:43 -!- Xjs has joined #hardfought 05:43 so not only are the gauntlets of defense not obsoleted 05:43 they're still next to impossible to get 05:44 you have to wield a piece of food to get the effects???? 05:45 might as well not bother then 05:45 half the shit in slex is like that for no reason lol, like a tin opener that gives you reflection when wielded 05:45 thanks for increasing the generated artifact count tin opener of uselessness 05:45 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a vampire lady, on T:10982 05:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:11024 05:46 not every artifact is supposed to be super-powerful! I don't know where players are getting that idea from 05:47 every artifact is just less chance of getting a sacrifice gift for some unholy reason 05:47 can't get to dlvl 4 without at least 2 artifacts spawned 05:48 not every character is supposed to be showered with artifact gifts either :P it's meant to be something special to receive one 05:48 it's not special 05:48 :P 05:48 it never happens how can it be special :P 05:49 then if it ever does you don't even get your first 'guaranteed gift' 05:49 probably get the Underpants of Farting or something instead 05:51 yes, because it would be extremely boring if in a game with about 2000 artifacts, every monk would always be wearing the same old boring one 05:51 variety ftw! 05:52 well here's my opinion: first sac gift should be easier to get as they're tied to their roles 05:52 binder with pen of the void, valkyrie with mjolnir, etc 05:52 undead slayer with that thing they get, etc 05:53 and the rest should stay as it is to discourage boring altar farming or whatever 05:53 you're free to have that opinion, but here in slex it's working as intended (I guess that's not new to you) 05:54 it's already so that random artifact rewards like the one from the BOFH or the consolation prize when your artiwish fails also have the increased chance of being the "first sac gift", which was originally a bug that I just never fixed 05:54 I have never seen the BOFH drop gauntlets of defense 05:55 wait, let me boot up the other PC where I can wizmode, I'll test-kill the BOFH a couple of times with monks and see what I get 05:55 it's usually something mega crappy like a bullwhip with +1 to hit 05:55 yeah it's like a lottery, you rarely win the jackpot 05:56 never* 05:57 tried twice: first time I got the cloak "Light Absorption", second try I got Gauntlets of Defense :P 05:57 what actually are the odds 05:57 quick, buy a lottery ticket! 05:57 5%? 05:58 #3 gave Ring of the Schwartz, #4 shoulder rings Check Your Escapes, #5 pope hat There Are Several Of Them, #6 stiletto sandals The Impossible Catwalk 05:59 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought 05:59 had to try a bunch more, #19 gave the gauntlets of defense again 06:00 and then #29 was the gauntlets yet again 06:00 so, not too terribly uncommon 06:01 ...not too terribly uncommon? 06:01 lol 06:01 like 10% chance? 06:01 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed wand of death", on T:29036 06:01 man you're really starting to remind me of porkman 06:02 it is time for the big reveal 06:02 I am Porkman 06:02 "X isn't easy enough to obtain/not OP enough! Amy you suuuuuck and I'll complain about it non-stop until you change it!" :P 06:02 heh you don't swear nearly enough to be porkman 06:03 I'm of the general opinion that slex doesn't need many changes to be rather enjoyable 06:04 in case that wasn't clear already 06:05 -!- attie has quit [Quit: gone afk] 06:05 well you said that a few times, but 10 bucks says if you were to make a "variant" of it, you'd gradually remove more and more stuff, just like everyone else who tried to make a variant of slex 06:05 can probably count on one hand the changes I'd make 06:05 *can probably count on one hand the changes I'm aware of right now that I'd make, but as time goes on I'd need many more hands 06:05 :P 06:05 1: change the dipping/blessing functions to be a nicer chance than 1/n 06:05 2: make 'first gift' easier to get 06:06 oh nooooooo, not yet another such list... 06:06 3: dial back on nastytrap duration 06:06 4: make artifact stone of MR that doesn't curse itself over time and put it in deep mines 06:06 all the slex changes that anyone ever suggests are "make game easier in some way because i cant handle a difficult game" :P 06:07 hmm I have a spare 5th one, what should I use it on 06:07 yaknow I think that might be it 06:07 "make easily obtainable item, preferably one that isn't a weapon so monks can use it, give double free action because lol difficulty whats that we need the game to be easy lol" :P 06:08 nope 06:08 though needing free action can be a problem when everything can para/sleep you 06:08 anyway I don't know if you gave me the list just to annoy me, but of course all of that is insta-rejected 06:09 hey you brought up making a variant and said I'd change a lot 06:09 was just showing that actually I wouldn't change much at all 06:09 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 06:09 yes, you would, because your variant wouldn't be "finished" after 4 commits :P you'd play your variant a bunch of times, discover more stuff that you find annoying, and then change that too 06:10 what do you see as wrong with any of those suggestions btw? 06:10 everything 06:10 don't even want to scroll back up to read it again, because it's totally against the spirit of slex 06:10 ? 06:11 it's the same old "revert stuff that Amy made that makes the game more difficult" that porkman, Soviet5lo, the slexme developer and all the others did in their "variants" of slex 06:11 I never suggested anything like that there 06:12 dipping/blessing to be nicer than 1/n <-- tweak what you've already added 06:12 if I didn't want stacks to resist manipulation I wouldn't have added that feature, if I didn't want the role-specific sacrifice gift to be more rare I wouldn't have made it more rare etc. etc. 06:12 first gift easier to get <-- increase role uniqueness, rest of gifts unchanged 06:12 dial back on nastytrap duration <-- tweak what you've already added 06:12 artifact stone of MR <-- tweak what you've added 06:13 -!- tromix has quit [Quit: fBNC - https://bnc4free.com] 06:13 but all those tweaks make the game easier! I don't want my game to be easier :P 06:13 slightly easier than now, still turboaids compared to slash'em? 06:13 -!- stenno3 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:13 "unironic suggestion: " - no slex player ever 06:13 oh wait that came out wrong 06:13 I mean these all seem like reasonable and tiny changes 06:14 I'd even code it if you accept PRs 06:14 I do accept PRs, but those particular ones would go straight into the trash bin :P 06:16 * amateurhour shrugs 06:17 also I've never seen anyone go to such lengths to try to force their "make-the-game-easier" changes into slex 06:17 -!- tromix has joined #hardfought 06:17 at which point have I coerced you? 06:17 I'm just giving my opinion on a game I play 06:18 none of those changes actually make it easier fwiw, just less ass 06:18 well usually players just tell me which changes they want and quickly realize that I don't make the game easier just to comfort them; seeing PRs about such stuff is a new one for me (even if you didn't actually make any) 06:18 could argue maybe first gift one does, but first gifts aren't that strong except for excalibur 06:18 no idea if pen of the void is good in slex 06:19 mjolnir* 06:19 also lol as if shorter nastytrap durations wouldn't make the game considerably easier. 06:20 I like nastytraps and think they're neat, they just last slightly too long is all, not suggesting removing them 06:20 might just be getting shafted by the rnz 06:20 -!- stenno3 has joined #hardfought 06:21 their duration is long and it uses rnz for the simple reason that I don't want waiting them out to be the best strategy :P 06:22 you're supposed to have to grapple with their effects, and the duration should be as random as possible so you can't simply say "ah, I know this one lasts for 4k turns, so just #4000s and it'll be gone" 06:23 I hope you don't think I'm trying to strongarm you into making changes 06:23 I just honestly and in good faith think these would be good changes 06:23 don't intend to annoy 06:24 well, I just honestly and in good faith tell you that these changes are against the slex design philosophy, and am trying to explain why (but feel that I'm not very good at explaining it) 06:24 I suspect we've probably reached an impasse, because I think they fit right in 06:25 oh, and while doing so, I'm tying to make it clear that I've been developing this variant for years and many players have complained about the difficulty elements in the past 06:25 yes, players come and go :P 06:25 -!- stenno3 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:26 [hdf-eu] [nh4] Medea (alva) (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 14120 points, T:1077, killed by a hobbit 06:26 -!- lxlldr has joined #hardfought 06:28 heh... what if I made a hybrid race where the changes you suggested are in the game but with some huge drawback :P 06:29 what would be the drawback? 06:29 "huge drawback" such as "can't enhance any skill beyond basic, can't increase max HP and Pw past 5*XL, moves at half speed permanently" 06:30 okay that would be unplayably bad I guess 06:30 lol 06:34 -!- yanah has joined #hardfought 06:35 -!- lxlldr has quit [Quit: Quit] 06:42 [hdf-eu] [un] Singhend (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 10614 points, T:8862, killed by a bolt of fire 06:44 I think my favourite branch so far is the space base, though looking forward to trying ice branch in next version 06:44 maybe that one will be my new favourite 06:45 yeah I hope I can get the new version out the door soon 06:55 phew survived the cold phase 06:55 now its just 4 degree here again 06:55 gratz! 06:55 thanks, it was something 06:56 like -20 degree at times 06:56 now the supermarkets get restocked again 06:56 good thing carnival is cancelled so I don't have to run around in the cold with my costume :P instead, I'll visit my roommate later today where I can dress up as fleece-meltem without having to leave the house 06:57 Twenty below is a fairly normal winter temperature here. Though it's about the lowest temperature I'd call "fairly normal". Of course, I am speaking in Fahrenheit, so my -20 is somewhat colder than your -20 centigrade. 06:57 i am glad carnival is cancelled because i can't stand carnival 06:57 who is meltem? there's a trap in slex named after them 06:57 stenno2: waaaaaat? but you could also dress up as a giiiiirl in fleecy block-heeled combat boots! 06:58 amateurhour: a turkish girl from my school 06:58 jonadab: -20 degree celsius are -4 degree fahrenheit apparently 06:58 LarienTelrunya: sure but i could also not do that 06:58 stenno2: Sounds about right. 06:58 I believe the scales cross at around -60. 06:58 Celsius degrees are somewhat larger. 06:59 oh is fleece-meltem like a rainbow coloured magical-girl version of your friend? 06:59 0 degree celsius is the temperature where water freezes at room pressure 06:59 Right, that's 32. 06:59 And 100 celsius is 212. 06:59 100 degree celsius is the temperature where water boils at room pressure 06:59 ok 06:59 amateurhour: hahaha well she's just a version that wears particularly fleecy clothing ♥ 06:59 Fahrenheit is designed for weather: 0 is cold, and 100 is hot. 06:59 100 is just slightly above human body temperature, as it happens.. 07:00 sounds pretty subjective lol 07:00 I can never remember whether celsius body temperature is 27 or 37. 07:00 between 36 and 37 07:00 Oh, it's objectively defined. 0 is cold, 100 is hot, is just the informal intuition. 07:01 The technical definition is somewhat more precise. 07:01 Though these days it's probably redefined in terms of kelvins, same as celsius is. 07:02 Otherwise minor changes in things like mean atmospheric pressure would change the scale slightly. 07:02 Can't have that. 07:02 F = 9C/5 + 32 07:02 Andrio: so its just based on celsius? 07:02 I think so. 07:03 which in turn is based on the Kelvin. 07:03 Fahrenheit is of course older. 07:03 But yes, it's been redefined in terms of kelvins of course. 07:03 As has celsius, which is also older (though not as old as Fahrenheit). 07:04 Fahrenheit was not designed for weather; it reflects what Fahrenheit could do in his lab. 07:04 Obviously Celsius works just as well for weather since if we really care we can talk about 0.5 of a degree. 07:05 The size of the degree isn't what makes Fahrenheit better for weather. It's the fact that 0 is in a better place, mostly. 07:05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=227Hdz8VFKo 07:06 Nothing makes Fahrenheit better for weather. It's worse. 07:06 Although really, we should all get over our "but that's REALLY SUPER COLD" and use absolute scales. 07:06 Kelvin, by preference. 07:06 But you try telling that to most people. Good luck. 07:06 There's an important transition point when water freezes in terms of practical consequences, and in Celsius it's not some silly number. 07:07 Kelvin's 0 is also not in a good place for weather 07:07 _Most_ people already use a sensible scale. 07:07 Pinkbeast: It's not the same number depending on conditions. 07:07 Close to sea level on Earth, 0 C is in a convenient place. 07:07 Under other conditions, not so much. 07:07 That's _where I live_ 07:07 the difference between 300 K and 310 K is significant for weather 07:08 Yeah, Kelvin isn't ideal for weather; but it has the advantage that you don't have to *convert* if you want to do math. 07:08 IMO, that's worth it. 07:09 I really cannot even believe the excuses Americans will come up with for using 18th century units they can't even get right 07:09 why math? F and C are as good for math as K. now physics OTOH 07:09 bhaak: You can't for example do specific heat calculations in F or C. 07:09 You have to convert to kelvins. 07:10 Because 0 is in the wrong place, so any time you have to multiply, you're screwed. 07:11 that's physics then 07:11 It's usually taught in Chemistry class here. 07:11 ... what? Normally with specific heat capacity one only cares about the delta in temperature 07:11 chemistry is just a sub set of physics :) 07:11 Eh, physics is a subset of math then. 07:11 Or an application thereof. 07:12 rather the latter 07:12 The universe is mostly made out of algebra :-) 07:12 we only assume that 07:12 there is no proof 07:13 I mean, you can always go in for Hume and say that everything is a mental construct. But I don't think even Hume _really_ believed that. 07:14 its a bit of an oxymoron 07:14 'nothing is true' etc 07:14 Eh. 07:15 The fact that solid surfaces are solid because of electromagnetic force causing their electrons to not want to get too close to each other, doesn't really make them less solid at a macroscopic level. 07:15 it's one thing to doubt everything as we don't have objective truth about it but we have historical evidence to reasonably assume that things work today the same way as they did in the past (with some generality) 07:16 Eh, if there's one thing we do know, it's that stuff changes over time. Not core laws of physics maybe, but situations, which are consistently relevant for how those laws get applied. 07:16 but we don't know why the universe works as it does and why it would follow mathematical constructs. it looks like it does but we don't have a compelling reason to claim why 07:27 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Merlek (Mon Hlf Mal Neu), 152495 points, T:11748, killed by a faded shadowsteel spike 07:28 !lastgame Merlek 07:28 Merlek: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/M/Merlek/nethack/dumplog/1612102738.nh.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/M/Merlek/dnethack/dumplog/1613471802.dnh.txt | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/M/Merlek/nethack/dumplog/1609183284.nh.html 07:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:16739 07:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:16740 07:39 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 07:39 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 07:50 -!- Xjs has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53 yay dnh 07:53 good choice of role/race combo 07:54 edderkops are wicked nasty 07:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:19481 08:09 -!- spicycebolla has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:10 Pinkbeast is correct and jonadab is wrong 08:10 sincerely, your friendly neighbourhood chemist 08:11 * Pinkbeast is now Burdened under the weight of his ego 08:11 bhaak is also correct while jonadab continues to be wrong 08:11 physics and maths are distinct 08:11 physics describes the physical world as we can test and make predictions about 08:11 maths is completely abstract 08:11 where's kerio when you need him 08:12 maths is extremely useful for making accurate predictions about physics 08:12 but it's a different beast 08:13 interestingly, maths can have actual concrete proof, which physics can't 08:14 tho if your predictions are accurate enough and don't get disproved by any test that's pretty good 08:14 it isn't surprising that you can prove something that you made up completely ;-) 08:14 bhaak: rofl 08:15 whereas the funny thing is that physics seems to follow that made-up thing 08:15 * Pinkbeast kind of believes in the Hylean Theoric World 08:15 aye 08:15 -!- attie has quit [Quit: gone afk] 08:15 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 08:15 what is that, Pinkbeast? 08:15 hence the theory we are living in a simulation. but I don't believe that. from my experience, if our world was programmed, we would already have seen plenty of edge cases where the programmers programmed a bad hack to fix something quickly :) 08:16 lol bhaak 08:17 but what if it was like that in the old days, and that's why there really was a huge water reservoir suspended above the earth which flooded everything, and talking bushes on fire and all sorts of wacko shit 08:17 A Platonic ideal world of theorems 08:17 and then they patched a lot of it but weren't able to erase human memories, so people passed down wild tales about noah and jesus and shit like that 08:17 I think Mandelbrot discovered the set, rather than inventing it. (Here I think is where you complain about Mandelbrot :-) 08:18 do i need to complain about Mandelbrot? 08:18 he made pretty pictures, no? 08:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Dragonbane bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:22614 08:18 There's a Ken MacLeod book which begins with space marines from the Library of Alexandria storming a space station because someone's cooked up a simulated universe, and this always ends in tragedy; in this case it turns out the simulated universe has a crappy physics model so the inhabitants have come up with something called "dark matter" to make their galaxies stick together. 08:19 LOL 08:19 If I believed in God I would think that God cannot make a universe where sqrt(2) is rational, sort of thing 08:20 Banks has a novel called Surface Detail where some civilizations have Heaven and Hell 08:20 which are simulated worlds 08:20 Yeah, I've read that one 08:20 that they put people's consciousnesses into 08:20 ah you have 08:20 I think I've read all his SF 08:20 bhaak might not have because he hasn't read enough Banks yet 08:20 Pinkbeast: I might still be missing one or two 08:20 I don't recall precisely 08:21 I thought Inversions was boring 08:21 kinda 08:21 my favs are probs Matter, Excession, Player of Games, Hydrogen Sonata was quite good too 08:21 but there's loads 08:21 lol 08:22 have you read any of his non-SF 08:22 Complicity is really dark, but great 08:22 The Bridge is also cool 08:22 A little. Wasp Factory, but who hasn't? 08:22 I haven't read Wasp Factory yet 08:23 And something that struck me (in a bad way) was the description in Dead Air of a woman as being conventionally attractive and having the jawline of David Coulthard 08:23 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Asu Mal Law), 173 points, T:415, killed by a bullet 08:23 huh 08:24 well maybe we can forgive him that one, it was his first novel and he wrote a lot of great stuff later 08:24 Hang on, Dead Air was much later 08:24 oh right sorry, thought you were still takling about wasp factory 08:25 Dead Air I'd never heard of 08:25 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hob Fem Neu), 575 points, T:1507, killed by a system shock 08:25 !lastgame post163 08:25 nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/post163/evilhack/dumplog/1613481692.evil.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/p/post163/nethack4/dumplog/2021-02-08%2013%3A12%3A39%2C%20sdalf-Kni-Hum-Mal-Law%2C%20died.txt 08:27 -!- Xjs has joined #hardfought 08:28 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Asu Mal Law) shouted "", on T:1088 08:28 Pinkbeast: that's bad writing on multiple levels. it assumes you know what coulthard looks like, which i do, but it also claims that his jawline could be attr4active, which i dispute, and especially on a woman, which is probably sexist of me but i'm an old white guy so i claim privilege 08:29 hothraxxa: I certainly don't think it goes with the rest of the description of her as conventionally attractive 08:29 aye 08:29 i read it as a diss, indicating she would have been attractive if not for the jawline 08:29 and not a very nice way to describe a female character in your book 08:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Swashbuckler, on T:23688 08:31 i confess i am attracted to many women who are not conventionally attractive 08:31 same 08:31 which is probably sexist of me but i'm an old white guy so i claim privilege 08:31 That makes three of us, but it don't make the cognitive dissonance on reading the book any less odd 08:33 it is an odd line, that's for sure 08:34 Now I'm going to have to dig up my copy and find I misremembered the whole thing 08:34 hahaha 08:34 lol 08:42 I think non-sf "The Business" has not been mentioned yet? Found that very entertaining. 08:47 iirc I liked that one 08:49 also, Walking on Glass, specifically the Philip K. Dickian portion 08:54 lol....jawline...kinda like Gina Carano 08:55 <{Demo}> she built like a ford f450 and thats ok 09:07 -!- Xjs has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had a short sword entrusted to her by Odin, on T:1990 09:14 -!- Merlek has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15 -!- Merlek has joined #hardfought 09:18 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 09:18 i tried to read pkd once 09:19 man in the high castle 09:19 so much inner monologue and pointless exposition in the first two chapters 09:19 couldn't get into it 09:19 <{Demo}> i read 500 pages of the first wheel of time book over the last 2 days cause i had no power 09:19 is your power back Demo? 09:19 <{Demo}> idk why anybody would read the entire series 09:19 <{Demo}> yeah it is 09:19 yey 09:19 wb 09:20 pkd is always a hard read 09:20 he likes to mess with your mind 09:20 yeah because he's shit hothraxxa 09:20 liked i guess 09:20 Demo I am sick but I got a job interview :o :o 09:20 well i read most if not all of his writing so i wouldn't agree that it's shit 09:20 ok maybe it's not 09:21 but the beginning of man in the high castle sucks 09:21 and put me off continuing the book 09:21 lol 09:21 have you watched the amazon series? 09:21 no 09:21 which btw is not really like the book 09:22 same basic premise but a lot different 09:22 i mean i haven't watched it so idc :p 09:22 Short Dick is much better 09:22 short dick? 09:22 (sorry, couldn't resist but I do think PKD's short stories are much more readable) 09:22 someone make a bad pun 09:23 ahhh cool Pinkbeast 09:25 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 2280 points, T:3631, killed by a kobold shaman, while sleeping 09:31 -!- qt has joined #hardfought 09:39 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:06 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 10:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 10:09 -!- Deathsushi has joined #hardfought 10:09 What ho! 10:09 amateurhour what the hell does  mean? that doesn't even display on my screen 10:10 Are there any streams for ascension runs that are of the over-explained type? Like, with someone who is explaining at length why they are doing what they're doing? 10:10 luxi did one like that once 10:10 lux was doing the run himself? 10:10 i dont think it's still available tho idk 10:10 yeah 10:10 Ah durn it 10:10 like a non-speedrun 10:11 Yah 10:11 he did one normal game 10:11 and streamed it 10:11 with lots of commentary 10:11 this was a while ago tho 10:12 Okay, well, maybe second best — is there someone that streams a lot of wizard runs? 10:12 what are you asking about Amy? 10:12 might be blind, lemme re-check scrollback 10:13 amateurhour: the shout message you sent, it included some weird glyph that I tried to paste here 10:13 Deathsushi: I will when my mic and fan situation is fixed 10:13 oh that was actually the empty string 10:13 DO you have a link to your twitch channel handy? 10:13 ah I see 10:13 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:29413 10:13 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:29415 10:13 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 18137 points, T:10438, escaped 10:13 I was like 'should I shout about the impossible level' then decided against it, but apparently empty prompt still sends 10:14 <{Demo}> wow, lame 10:14 which one is the impossible level? impossible as in "due to a bug you can't get from one stair to the other" or as in "Amy you suck why did you make such a shitty level I hate it!"? 10:14 well it was a floor with almost all walls, and I didn't have a pick 10:14 oh, the wall-covered level 10:14 but I was like no worries, I can panic dig in a particular spot and there'll be a path 10:14 except 10:15 panic digging didn't dig the walls, they're all undiggable 10:15 huh. do you have a screenshot? 10:15 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/a/amateurhour/slex/dumplog/1613481809.slex.txt 10:15 <{Demo}> the best slex strat is to play like porkman 10:15 <{Demo}> disappear for months and dont 10:15 hahaha 10:15 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:29420 10:15 that looks like you can walk from one stair to the other, even in sokosolver mode 10:16 find a path from where I am then 10:16 oh wait 10:16 UGH 10:16 there isn't one, follow the wall from my left side 10:16 :P 10:16 urrrrrrrgh 10:16 could well be a bug then 10:16 hell if I knew which level that is though 10:17 oh found it already! and yeah it's a bug, will have to fix 10:17 <{Demo}> bug haver 10:18 guessing it's some role's special level 10:18 nah it's a demon lair 10:18 <{Demo}> which demon? you? 10:18 thanks for finding the bug, I'll fix it soon 10:18 Electronir, the shock-based demon lord 10:18 <{Demo}> electronir uses self destruct! 10:19 <{Demo}> amateurhour #quits 10:19 <{Demo}> its super effective 10:20 oh it would have really sucked to get that far in the game as sokosolver and had an impossible floor lol 10:20 <{Demo}> cant u levelport past it? 10:20 guessing floor is undiggable and/or no-tele for way back though 10:20 oh gain level would still work wouldn't it 10:20 <{Demo}> wow, unwinnable game 10:21 <{Demo}> use the fleece panic #invoke on the fleecy flomper shoe artifact from the shoevillain branch boss drop 10:21 <{Demo}> and itll get u through 10:22 haha if there was a guaranteed artifact that did panic chaos terrain that worked on undiggable walls that would actually work 10:22 <{Demo}> its slex, just make some shit up and ask amy if it exists 10:22 <{Demo}> and if it doesn't, it will eventually 10:23 you'd still have the random chance of "a portal to the void opens... do you want to step through it for a random teleport?" or whatever the message was 10:23 but you might have to wait for a long time, so yeah it's stupid and needs to be fixed 10:23 and no, the cursed gain level method does not work for the ascension run 10:24 <{Demo}> ill wear moon shoes 10:24 <{Demo}> and jump through the ceiling 10:25 <{Demo}> surely, slex has moon shoes? 10:25 moon boots, is that close enough? 10:27 <{Demo}> thats not moon shoes 10:27 <{Demo}> these things https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389212978030968832/811257462606135296/abnkwiqr28641.png 10:28 lol, weight attachment shoes? :P 10:29 <{Demo}> fumbling boots but they provide jumping 10:30 lol 10:30 <@Tone> Man I remember wanting a pair of those when I was a kid 10:30 <{Demo}> my friend had a pair and they sucked 10:31 <@Tone> Looking at them now, I'm not surprised 10:31 <@Tone> but they seemed incredible as a kid watching the commercial that aired every 15 minutes 10:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:49 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:56 they look as if they would break after 20 minutes 10:59 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:29582 11:00 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:29585 11:01 -!- ryzokuken has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in] 11:03 -!- ryzokuken has joined #hardfought 11:06 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had a pair of mithril padded gloves entrusted to her by Odin, on T:3704 11:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Rog Orc Mal Cha) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:12172 11:30 -!- Deathsushi has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:31 -!- Deathsushi has joined #hardfought 11:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Rog Orc Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:13507 11:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:3568 11:34 What's the deal with named goblins? 11:34 I just killed "Uhaiog of Thosuul" 11:34 foreshadowing 11:35 <@riker> orctown ones have funky names like that 11:35 unless you've already found orctown 11:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Fighter, on T:3111 11:35 then it doesn't count as foreshadowing exactly 11:35 but you'll sometimes find orcs or goblins like that in the early mines, then unless you're on a bones level you know you got orctown below 11:36 -!- spicycebolla has joined #hardfought 11:36 the signalling is a fun feature imo 11:37 if orctown's in your game a few of those orcs get scattered throughout the mines iirc 11:37 [hdf-us] [un] smzp (Val Hum Fem Law), 854 points, T:1304, killed by a gnome, while sleeping 11:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3642 11:38 fleece-Meltem wishes everyone a happy carnival ♥ https://abload.de/img/1613493123779eyjrj.jpg ♥ 11:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2217 points, T:3706, killed by a barely wounded dwarf queen 11:39 <{Demo}> oh fuck, tomorrow is ash wednesday. goddammit 11:40 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 85 points, T:370, killed by an uninjured fox 11:40 it is? 11:40 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 11:40 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 11:40 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 11:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Hea Hum Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:42678 11:44 <@luxidream> deathsushi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L8LiQ-cIWA&list=PLnB5NenmrhCfZJBao-rn4FlVBEzr0pmOM 11:45 -!- Deathsushi has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:45 <{Demo}> i like march easter way better than may easter 11:45 <@luxidream> I think you were asking about some more indepth commentary earlier 11:45 happy pancake day everyone 11:46 <{Demo}> there hasnt been an easter on my birthday for like 200 years, and wont for another 200 years. i hope i dont live that long 11:46 yay pancake day 11:47 i was gonna make pancakes but i feel like shit still and will lie down instead 11:47 and then maybe make more pasta 11:47 <{Demo}> i wish they celebrated fat tuesday here 11:47 <{Demo}> they do in some places in the US 11:47 lel 11:48 ok bbl i feel like shit :c 11:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Hea Hum Mal Neu) entered the Astral Plane, on T:42907 11:49 -!- Xjs has joined #hardfought 11:50 wtf is fat tuesday lol 11:50 oh mardi gras gotcha 11:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Hea Hum Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:42922 11:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 486 points, T:1763, killed by an uninjured giant bat, while frozen by a monster's gaze 11:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Rog Orc Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:16528 11:55 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 2419858 points, T:42979, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/B/Bartlem/nethack/dumplog/1612902452.nh.html 11:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Rog Orc Mal Cha) attained the rank of Pilferer, on T:16548 11:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 100 points, T:1378, killed by a boulder 12:00 [hdf-us] [evil] telegarn (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 6215 points, T:4514, killed by a bolt of fire 12:01 [hdf-eu] [un] Singhend (Bar Hum Mal Cha), 17952 points, T:16437, killed by a soldier ant 12:06 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06 <@nabru> !booze 12:06 * Beholder passes @nabru a tall glass of the sauce, fermented by Arsinoe at 3 Kelvin. 12:08 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 12:08 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought 12:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 50 points, T:844, killed by a wounded goblin 12:12 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 12:14 -!- Nelennath has quit [] 12:15 hm I should play xnethack today to make sure the king cake is generating correctly 12:18 it's pancake day! 12:19 oh that was already said :-) 12:19 wait a minute I never implemented mardi gras noooooo 12:20 it was just a suggestion argh 12:20 next year... 12:20 NO 12:20 i will do it NOW 12:20 \o/ 12:28 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:29 -!- microla has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29 -!- Deathsushi has joined #hardfought 12:30 we don't celebrate that at all here in germany 12:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:24579 12:31 <{Demo}> one day im gonna go somewhere cool for the day before ash wednesday 12:31 luxidream: Ah sweet — thank you for this! 12:31 Ah Tone — I'm watching a wizard run of his 12:31 {Demo}: its really overrated 12:31 <{Demo}> even in the right spot in like, idk, italy? 12:31 He's pretty good, but doesn't always explain as much why he's doing stuff — better than nothing though, and better than most, really 12:31 <{Demo}> i like food 12:31 why would italy be the right place for it lol 12:32 <{Demo}> because they are quite catholic there in the right places 12:32 oh you mean literally like a catholic fest, not like the carnival procession kind 12:32 fair enough 12:34 i see now, we celebrate that kind of stuff on monday, not on tuesday 12:34 'shrove monday' apparently 12:36 here in germany its mostly like, people meet in the bitter cold, stand around to get some sweets thrown into their faces, get terribly drunk and act as if they are in a good mood 12:37 So getting orcish town is a real bummer, eh? 12:38 Like, it seems like that's just a bad RNG roll? 12:38 i assume that its similar in any other european country regardless of if you are catholic or protestant 12:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 2344 points, T:3982, killed by a wounded hill orc called Grisagris of Thosuul, while sleeping 12:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) was crowned "The Hand of Elbereth" by Tyr, on T:26003 12:48 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) genocided mind flayers, on T:29833 12:49 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Mal Cha) killed Croesus, on T:26551 12:51 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Asu Mal Law), 16365 points, T:2210, killed by a bullet 12:51 a bullet 12:51 (while sleeping) 12:51 who shot amateurhour?? 12:51 The gangster called sohlman the street criminal 12:52 !lastgame 12:52 amateurhour: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/Deathsushi/nethack/dumplog/1613450657.nh.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/a/amateurhour/slex/dumplog/1613482164.slex.txt | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Arahael/evilhack/dumplog/1613440306.evil.html 12:52 that bastard 12:52 You could not have this property intrinsically: sleep resistance 12:52 well that sucks 12:52 <{Demo}> bed time for u 13:00 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 87 points, T:339, killed by a grid bug 13:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed cockatrice corpse named Vladsbane", on T:27723 13:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:27742 13:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:27755 13:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:3682 13:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:3765 13:11 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 13:11 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 13:11 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 13:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:4012 13:20 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 3492 points, T:3039, killed by a gnome 13:21 amateurhour: looks like sohlman PKed you with his bones level :P 13:23 <@malor> I know you are against it, but I think there is a "market" (for lack of a better term) for a SLEX-easier-light 🙂 Hopefully porkman will come back and upset you a little 🙂 13:23 I would play that 13:24 I get scared away from the descriptions of Slash'Em being SUPER HARD 13:24 But love the idea of more content in the rich world that is NetHack 13:24 I wouldn't mind more lore too 13:24 <{Demo}> play splash'em 13:24 Deathsushi: sounds like you should play splicehack 13:24 <{Demo}> "I wouldn't mind more lore too" play dnethack then lol 13:25 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Asu Mal Law), 12799 points, T:4547, killed by a monster (the Rat King), while praying unsuccessfully 13:25 it's a bit more sane than slash'em, and way more sane than slex 13:26 @malor: well I won't be the supplier of such a game, sorry (and I wouldn't support it if one was made) 13:27 imo slash'em isn't super hard Deathsushi 13:27 <{Demo}> hey amy idk what the context is but ur wrong 13:27 SLASH'EM has a bit of a tougher early game, but once you get past that it's easy to get overpowered, is what I've heard 13:27 lol Demo 13:27 <{Demo}> yeah slashem is easy once u figure out how to get past early game 13:27 !rng slex | bigslex 13:27 LarienTelrunya: slex 13:31 <@malor> actually LarienTelrunya all you need to do is introduce a role/race combo that is essentially the same as Barbarian or Wizard or Valkrie or Monk but with at least quadruple HP/MP at level one and gains double each level. That way people would have a powerful role they already know how to play but still have the BFE level randomness that likely still kills them. But they can survive at least some of the randomness. I have tried the "easy 13:31 for new players" role/race combos and they were NOT nearly powerful enough. So would you give that compromise to people (me, I guess)? 13:32 hahaha, well I sure as hell hope that is a joke suggestion; anyway I'll assume that it is 13:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) polymorphed her first object, on T:29022 13:37 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2370 13:39 <@malor> It wasn't, but maybe it was not well received. If so, ok. 13:40 dlvl 3 chaos quest 13:40 <{Demo}> slex doesnt take suggestions 13:40 <@malor> I just like the idea of SLEX but the idea of playing it I don't like. I think there are a lot of people in that boat. But you aren't one of them, obviously 🙂 13:40 well I don't get why everyone seems to try to get me to make slex easier lately, it's not going to happen, and I'm not going to add an easy mode as an option either 13:41 amateurhour: haha I'd gtfo because Vecna would probably own you 13:41 is he next to you already? 13:41 <{Demo}> hey amy, if slex is playable then ascend the current version 13:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 700 points, T:1850, killed by an uninjured iguana, while frozen by a monster's gaze 13:41 !who 13:41 K2: [hdf-us] Frozty [nh370] post163 [nh370] Deathsushi [nh370] nabru [nh370] hothraxxa [evil] rebatela [evil] | [hdf-eu] repeat [nh370] lacca [nh370] amateurhour [slex] | [hdf-au] No current players 13:41 <@malor> I don't even want it easier actually, but the other option you also don't like. Which is to make it so you can play tight and survive until the mid-game at least 75% of the time. 13:42 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Asu Mal Law), 2062 points, T:948, killed by an icy touch 13:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased rustproof fireproof +4 cloak of magic resistance", on T:29705 13:42 Vecna ^ 13:42 <{Demo}> slex doesnt want to be played 13:42 xNetHack updated (all servers) 13:42 @malor: well I guess if you're good at the game then you can get to the midgame more than 75% of the time (see also: Tariru) 13:42 <@malor> I deny that. 13:43 <@malor> Tariru did it EONS ago. 13:43 <@malor> there is zero shot Tariru could ascend current SLEX 4-out-of-4. 13:43 <{Demo}> yeah, tariru exposed that the game was bugged 13:43 <{Demo}> by streaking it 13:43 <@malor> no way and using that as your "hey it's easy" is just using bad info to prove your point incorrectly. 13:43 <{Demo}> so amy had to fix that 13:43 heh I never said that it was easy 13:44 in fact slex isn't *meant* to be easy, but that part apparently no one seems to get 13:44 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 9221 points, T:6352, killed by a death ray 13:44 porkman did it more recently, but both games lasted over 1 week total time each and used a nerfed strategy 13:45 <{Demo}> malor don't bother seriously arguing with amy. she's literally crazy. it's part of the appeal of the game. there's nothing to be had but frustration for you, no matter how right you may be 13:45 <@malor> I am not asking for it to be easy. Just that it can be played well if you play well. 13:45 <{Demo}> never approach slex as something meant to be played 13:45 <{Demo}> EVER 13:45 <{Demo}> you will only be frustrated 13:46 vent your frustration by making serious suggestions about playability so Amy gets annoyed too :^) 13:46 <{Demo}> if you approach it as some relic of insanity made by someone mentally unwell that you can attempt to best, no matter how unfair and imbalanced it is, then you can enjoy it 13:46 heh yeah, listen to Demo. slex isn't supposed to be easy, it's not supposed to comfort the player, and it's very certainly not supposed to be so non-random that a good player can ascend it 100% of the time! :P 13:46 amateurhour: you already do that :P 13:47 add a 1/100000 chance per turn of dying randomly, that'll teach those whippersnappers what's what 13:48 stenno2: that sounds as if you aren't a fan of Karneval :-D 13:48 indeed i am not 13:48 <@malor> why? Who is gaining more enjoyment in life because of those decisions? You? Based on your being a programmer I assume your life is already pretty good in today's universe. Bottom line: Less people play because it is so random. NOT because it is hard. Evil Hack is the most popular or second most popular variant and is the 2nd hardest (after SLEX) of the maintained variants. Less people play because the game randomly F's you. Getting it to 13:48 do that less or in a way you can avoid by playing tight would make more people play it. 13:49 <{Demo}> im eating peanut butter crackers but i would love to be eating large hunks of smoked meat or something idk 13:49 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Asu Mal Law), 145 points, T:438, dissolved in molten lava 13:49 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Dis Chi Fem Cha), 11950 points, T:1, quit 13:49 @malor: well I guess you're not aware of it, but I don't care at all how many or few people play slex, I only want to make a game that I (personally) enjoy playing, and slex fulfills that. If others enjoy it too, great! But if not, ah well, at least I still have a game that I enjoy :) 13:50 and I mean that completely unironically 13:50 <@malor> Honest question asking for an honest answer: If it was somewhat less "f'ing the player for no reason" would you still enjoy playing and developing it? Please be honest. 13:50 SLEX is an auteur game 13:50 some people like to be fucked 13:50 yeah honest answer: no, I would not, I'm a masochist (yes, really!) if I wanted the game to be easier or less random, I could easily make it so, but I don't 13:50 * amateurhour quickly looks up the definition of auteur 13:51 ah that wasn't what I thought it meant at all 13:51 <{Demo}> auteur is a condensed form of the name "amateurhour" 13:51 fitting 13:51 also as I said, listen to Demo, he's right when he says that I'm completely insane :) 13:51 <{Demo}> never come to amy with good ideas for slex, only bad ideas 13:51 <@malor> He's wrong there. You can't program something in "C" that can compile if you are insane. 13:52 <{Demo}> tell that to terry davis lol 13:52 <@malor> certainly not something this expansive. 13:52 <@malor> people throw around insane way too much. 13:52 <@malor> thinking differently is the only way to do anything that matters. 13:52 but a sane person couldn't come up with something like slex :P so I'm both sane and insane at the same time I guess? 13:52 * K2 grabs some popcorn, sits back and watches 13:53 you might no be insane but you aren't quite sane if you program C in 2021 13:54 the flattery tactic doesn't work either malor let's try reverse psychology next 13:54 it would be such a SHAME if there was at least one easy race/role combo 13:54 I would HATE being able to explore all the fun content 13:54 <@malor> Last question: there are 157 roles in SLEX. Why would you be upset if there was a 158th role that was EXCEPTIONALLY EASY? How would that upset you? 13:54 "thinking differently is the only way to do anything that matters" please do not work as a surgeon 13:54 amateurhour: redguard monk :P still rather easy IMHO (at least if you're willing to eat meat on occasion) 13:54 i would be super frustrated if there was an easy role in slex 13:55 @malor: oh that one's easy, everyone and their mother would play it and completely ignore the 157 others, I want variety, not one single optimal choice that everyone plays 13:55 I think one has to accept that Amy writes the variant she wants to play and one can take it or leave it 13:55 same for making an easy mode, everyone would play that one and completely neuter the hard parts I put into the game 13:55 didn't you nerf redguards? 13:55 <@malor> they would you are right. INITIALLY. 13:56 <@malor> Take dnethack for example. Total number of attempts at some of the role/race combos was ZERO until recently. And now a role/race combo that had NEVER been done has been ascended in a lot of cases. 13:56 amateurhour: not much, all I did for the newer versions was basically make it harder for them to get a high Pw max, but they still have intrinsic eregen 13:56 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Asu Mal Law) shouted "lol what is this", on T:379 13:56 SLEX is not a game but a C compiler testsuite 13:56 <@malor> so that's a real world example where if people get their feet wet without having an electric shock applied they would try more stuff. 13:56 amateurhour: uhh... is the wall to the west of you diggable? 13:57 <{Demo}> thanks bhaak, i dont think i've heard a better take on SLEX 13:57 doubt it, this is a soko floor lol 13:57 <{Demo}> its like putting the dvd cleaner disk into the dvd player 13:57 <{Demo}> and trying to figure out why the movie sucks 13:57 lol 13:57 amateurhour: try panic digging maybe? 13:57 <@malor> another example that proves my point: Number of games of Valkrie is WAY WAY above all the other races on vanilla. But the players that have ascended Vanilla with a Valk tend to try the other role/races. 13:57 DVD Cleaner II: The Cleaner Strikes Back 13:57 same with dnh monk, it's the gateway drug to dnh 13:58 <@malor> yeah, good point amateurhour. 13:58 @malor: you're forgetting that I don't care about how many players play slex :P if they want to play my game, they have to play by my rules, and my rules say there shouldn't be an obvious uberchar among the playable ones. 13:59 <@malor> Do you not care? It sounds like you ABSOLUTELY DO. 13:59 <@malor> You demand that people don't play. 13:59 <@malor> that is caring. 13:59 <@malor> that is caring WAY MORE than any other dev cares. 13:59 lol 13:59 <@malor> you care the most. not the least. 13:59 what are you, a psychology therapist? 13:59 <@malor> so if you care, then you have to care about your (absent) player base. 13:59 amateurhour: hint: lure the monsters through the diagonal passages so that you get the scrolls :D maybe one of them is a scroll of relocation or tele level! 14:00 <@malor> and therefore creating alternative play styles HAS to be in your mind. 14:00 Maybe I'll try demanding that people don't play 14:00 The only winning move is not to play. 14:00 I just want to see whether it's diggable then I'll quit 14:00 nabru: the game is rigged. but you cannot lose, if you do not play 14:00 @malor: there are a lot of play styles you could use in slex! there just isn't any "lol easy mode for players who don't want a hard game" play style, sorry 14:01 <{Demo}> last night i was playing texas hold em with pennies and i won by running out of pennies so i didnt have to clean up any pennies. slex is the same way i think 14:01 amateurhour: seems like you'd die of starvation before the tech becomes available again 14:01 how long is it meant to be timed out for? 14:01 <{Demo}> eat the walls for hunger so the tech can return 14:01 rnz(5000) 14:02 must have rolled disproportionately high timeout 14:02 if it says "huge timeout", it means it'll take over 10k turns 14:02 <{Demo}> should be rnz(50000) honestly 14:03 WHAT why didn't you use the jumpgate, you'd probably have been free! 14:03 because I need to know for science 14:03 <@malor> I don't need easy, I just need a style where if you play tight you can surive for the most part. Most of the variants and vanilla aren't easy. Vanilla has an ascension rate of something like 1.5% if I recall (I think I read that somewhere and at the time I was astonished that one of 67 games was successful when I couldn't get close). Winning a game 1.5% of the time is FREEKIN' HARD compared to any normal universe of games. And all of the 14:03 variants are harder than vanilla. 14:04 well slex isn't supposed to have an ascension rate of 1.5% totalled over all of its players, that would mean the game is way too easy :P 14:04 Agree with malor/rld on this one 14:04 <@malor> no one on this message board is looking for an easy game. Even Tariru's stellar record is HORRIBLE if you compare that to expert players of any other type of game. 14:05 lol 14:05 (that was towards amateurhour's game) 14:05 apparently they are indeed diggable 14:05 but I guess now we have to see if panic digging would have worked on them too? 14:05 <@malor> I'm just saying that all nethack versions are hard. Whatever the rate is for SLEX is irrelevant. I was just pointing out the easiest version is still hard. Also, I don't even need "easy" just something where tight players can do well. Right now the game can NOT be won by a computer (Tariru) most of the time. 14:06 yeah 14:06 @malor: since I didn't ever see you play, I can't tell whether you're making any obvious mistakes that result in you usually not living to see the midgame, but generally it should be possible, especially if you pick e.g. orc barb 14:07 well we'll never know, the god finally stopped answering prayers at around 19000 turns of no panic digging 14:08 amy can't ascend slex either... 14:08 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Asu Mal Law), 4697 points, T:19651, killed by a monster (freemason initiate), while fainted from lack of food 14:08 amateurhour why don't you check the kops for cream pies? 14:08 ah well, rip 14:08 because I intended to quit regardless of outcome 14:08 a life thrown away in the pursuit of science 14:08 tis the noble way 14:08 with slex you also have to consider that if someone manages to ascend, some element of that ascension that they relied on will be declared "too easy" and nerfed 14:09 <@malor> so each ascension leads to the game being harder to ascend? That seems like a bad idea. 14:09 it's what happened after porkman ascended 14:09 well slex is a WIP, and with the low amount of players that reach the endgame, there's not that much data yet about whether the endgame is working as intended, especially difficulty-wise 14:11 <@malor> porkman played a game for 10 days and 21 hours. Actual playtime. No matter what, that is not "too easy" 🙂 14:12 @malor: it might be a surprise for you, but porkman or other players are not the ones who make that call 14:12 <@malor> I know that. I'm making statements about objective fact. Not about what you choose to do, of course. Your choices are your own. But you can't declare them factual if they are not. 14:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:5402 14:13 <@malor> and it is FACTUAL that a game that requires 10 hours of playtime to win is difficult. 14:13 <@Tone> I don't know if playtime correlates well with difficulty in a game like slex 14:13 "X is not too easy" is subjective, sorry 14:13 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 14:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 14:13 <@malor> Ok, I will call it opinion. I am still able to have that, I think. 14:13 the game is difficult, yes, I agree with that, but whether or not it's too easy/difficult varies depending on who you ask 14:13 it looks condescending if you put smiley faces after each of your statements of argument 14:13 <@Tone> Tariru's games took forever when they were streaking it 14:13 smily faces are for tahnkyous and when people are nice to you 14:13 <@malor> You make it sound like you are the only one that can declare a fact a fact. 14:13 <@malor> which I dispute. 14:14 Amy doesn't live in a world of facts either malor 14:14 <@malor> and you are sounding like you would prefer I don't try to participarte in any way in the development thought process of your game. 14:14 <@malor> So I won't. 14:14 just give up before you run out of steam 14:14 <@malor> sorry I attempted to make reasonable, IN MY OPINION, thoughts and push them your way. 14:14 <@malor> I will not make that mistake in the future. 14:14 everyone tries once malor 14:14 it never works 14:14 Amy is too stubborn to listen to feedback 14:14 @malor: well I've had more than enough players in the past who had their own personal vision as of what slex is supposed to be like and/or what I should change, and I've never given in 14:15 i was going to say, I've seen this argument before lol 14:15 yeah lmao 14:15 some of them made their own variants of slex, with the results we've seen (slashthem: 99.9% of slex-specific stuff removed in the end, might as well just have forked slashem instead) 14:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:9157 14:16 and slashthem was originally made because the developer just disliked one particular aspect of the new ghast race, i.e. at first the intention wasn't "remove all the slexisms" 14:16 It ended up that way because he was trying to make reasonable decisions about directions the game development ought to go in order to improve the game. 14:16 <@malor> being a dev is time consuming. I assume all those forks are dead, right? 14:16 But yes, he should've just forked Slash'EM. 14:16 there's also SLASH'FIC: EXTENDED BDSM 14:17 omg amateurhour have you started escaping past messages now? I'm sorry, but then I cannot watch you play anymore 14:17 <{Demo}> slashem doesnt have bugfixes 14:17 which is just slex with all the game removed 14:17 and the flavour content left in 14:17 <@malor> people get frustrated, make a fork, vow to carry it on forever. A month later are using a different alt so they don't have to admit they lost interest 🙂 14:17 <@nabru> People don't realize what is involved in making a fork 14:17 @malor: slashthem still gets the occasional commit, to my surprise 14:17 ahem is this just about slex forks, or all variants 14:18 and some, like amateurhour, boycott the game and then shamelessly slink back 14:18 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Neu), 15366 points, T:7284, quit 14:18 trapped in that mad addiction 14:18 I think slinking is shame*ful* by nature 14:18 if you're forking slex, your game is going to have only a niche audience no matter what, I think 14:18 <@malor> it isn't even up on "hardfought" so it doesn't count as a viable game anyway 🙂 14:18 aosdict: yeah true 14:18 shamefully slinks back 14:19 ais523: err, I don't know. people are telling me there'd be a "market" for easymode slex lately 14:19 well 14:19 malor said that 14:19 <@malor> aosdict: Obviously several forks have persisted. I am saying the forks made to avoid dealing with LarientTelrunya are the ones that WILL DIE quickly 🙂 14:19 fwiw, I have been consistent in my boycotting of slex, at least in terms of playing (I'm still willing to discuss it to some extent, but I think it's clear that I disapprove of so much of it that it could never be in a form that's acceptable to both me and LarienTelrunya simultaneously, and that's something that I think we're both comfortable with) 14:19 <{Demo}> i dont like slex one bit btw i just like seeing things done that aren't supposed to be possible 14:19 escaping which messages Amy? 14:19 <{Demo}> i fully endorse slex on the premise that its a bad idea and only play it because you shouldn't 14:19 amateurhour: well, pressing esc when there's a --More-- prompt 14:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:9578 14:19 reddit is down 14:19 lmao Demo 14:19 if I see a player do that, I get the heebie jeebies 14:19 <{Demo}> the appeal is that it is a nightmare 14:19 probably a good thing 14:20 depends on what's occurring, I don't do it often 14:20 @malor I mean, I think the slex player base is 1) small in the context of gaming and 2) made up of people who like slex as it is for the most part 14:20 fwiw, I think that most variants don't sufficiently consider the balance implications of their changes; at least the variants that outright go "OK, I want to make a variant that's frustratingly hard and sucks to play seriously" mostly avoid that problem 14:20 amateurhour: well you're allowed to play however you want of course, but please don't complain to me if you die because you skipped past something like "You are slowing down." ;) 14:20 <{Demo}> super lame added stuff hack extended masochism extended is what slex's real name is 14:21 i thought it was Sadistic Levels of X-citement 14:21 so I'm not sure there's much in the way of a hypothetical playerbase that wants to play slex as it is but just with all the frustrating bits taken out 14:21 aosdict: i might have been such a player once 14:21 I think there's a reasonable set of players who want to play "casual NetHack, but with as much added content as possible to add variety", but I also think slex isn't what they're looking for 14:22 <{Demo}> yeah thats the problem 14:22 i'd play slex if it weren't so ridiculous 14:22 aosdict: depends on how thorough the removal fork would be, and also, its developer would of course give in every time a player comes and says "feature X from slex suuuucks please remove it too!!!!!1111" 14:22 <{Demo}> people come to slex looking for something else 14:22 <{Demo}> and not realizing slex is far, far from what they are looking for 14:22 <{Demo}> cause from the distance, it looks like what they want 14:22 Like, i wish slashem development had continued 14:22 try grepping source files for high heels 14:22 and prepare to be horrified 14:22 lawl 14:22 K2 made the argument on github that 'it's an open source project you can just fork it and implement your own thing', but it's not that simple, if you fail to secure enough of a user base then your fork will die 14:23 just to reiterate again I think slex is almost completely okay 14:23 that's your addiction talking 14:23 lol 14:23 the upcoming version 2.70 will be even more okay, if I ever get around to finishing it 14:23 i think we need to stage an intervention 14:23 save a-hour from himself 14:23 rebatela: slashem development continuing up through 2021 would probably end up like slex 14:24 let me quote myself "why does nethack have a tendency to attract dysfunctional people and programmers?" 14:24 bhaak: yeah why is that?? 14:24 bhaak <3 I love that quote! 14:24 dysfunctional programming sounds like an esolang paradigm 14:24 <{Demo}> there's a difference? 14:24 ^ 14:24 <{Demo}> lol it does 14:24 <@malor> basically for the "fork it and do your own thing" to work at all you need K2 or whoever runs "ASCENSION.run" to put your game on their list. If you do that you have a real game. SlashThem isn't on either. 14:25 slashthem is on ascrun, or at least it was the last time I checked 14:25 <@nabru> dysfunctional programming sounds like a job I had in college 14:25 aoei: maybe there has to be wrong with you if you enjoy staring at moving characters when you could play AAA games instead? 14:25 I just realised that ascension.run has had the same name for the last 5 years or so 14:25 it used to change name every few months 14:26 <@malor> oh, it is? I just went to the slashtem wiki and it didn't indicate it was on there. 14:26 <@malor> yep, it does appear to be according to ascension.run 14:26 the wiki pages are updated by random members of the public, so they often get out of sync with each other 14:27 <@malor> interesting. Ascension.run does NOT appear to be hosting SLEX though. Which is odd, I would think. 14:27 slashthem was even in one junethack 14:27 to my surprise I don't recall having it happen that someone comes to me with a slashthem bug report 14:27 @malor: kerio used to be part of the slex devteam but then he left over some petty issue and decided to remove it from his server as well 14:27 https://junethack.net/archive/2015/server/nxc_slth.html 14:28 bhaak: naaaaa that just means you care about *gameplay* not pretty pictures :D 14:28 <@malor> petty issue? With you? How is that possible since you treat everyone else like you don't care about their opinion? Seems sus. 14:28 lol malor 14:29 Amy just is that way 14:29 well the issue was that kerio disliked the fact that slex implemented evil patch ideas 14:29 oh and there was also the problem with the phantom crash bug, where in hindsight I have to admit that kerio was right after all and it *was* my fault that the bug was there 14:30 <@malor> I thought an overarching SLEX premise was "having it all". So on that one I probably would have sided with you. Which would have upset you to no end, of course. 14:30 why would it upset me if someone sides with me? 14:31 <@malor> speaking of ascension.run, why isn't there a sub-channel of the roguelikes group for "ascension.run". It seem popular enough, although I have never partaken? 14:31 I misread "phantom" as "platform", and realised it said something about slex that I couldn't tell whether it was referring to software platforms like GNU/Linux and Windows, or platform heels 14:31 <@malor> Just my opinion based on things that have seemed to bother you. I'm likely wrong in your always-correct opinion though. Think nothing of it. 14:31 <{Demo}> i dont think they wanna talk to discord folks 14:32 @malor: oh come on, I'm not the "always-correct opinion" kind of girl. it's just that when it comes to slex development I have a very clear design philosophy and a vision of where the game's development is supposed to go in future 14:32 there's not much nethack talk in there to be honest :) 14:32 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry for my connection] 14:33 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 14:33 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 14:33 -!- Nelennath has joined #hardfought 14:34 <{Demo}> hmm. this place smells spoiled 14:35 malor: there is a channel on IRC just no discord bridge 14:35 #ascension.run 14:35 <@malor> oh, ok. thanks aoei 14:36 [hdf-us] [un] ezion (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 178 points, T:389, killed by a fox 14:38 -!- yanah has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 14:39 <@nabru> !booze 14:39 * Beholder pours @nabru a tall glass of the hooch, excreted by the late Pinobot at -20 degrees Fahrenheit. 14:40 -!- Nelennath has quit [] 14:40 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Exhumer, on T:10282 14:42 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 14:47 [hdf-us] [un] ezion (Wiz Vam Fem Cha), 942 points, T:1041, killed by a water demon, while fainted from lack of food 14:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had Giantslayer bestowed upon him by Odin, on T:993 14:52 -!- Borto has joined #hardfought 14:55 <@malor> If one was to make a version of SLEX that is not quite so random I wonder if the best path would be to start with a different existing variant other or to start with SLEX or to start with Vanilla. I think the best method would be to start with an existing variant other than SLEX. Adding stuff to that would be easier than subtracting deep-deep-code from SLEX I think. 14:56 just play splicehack malor 14:56 there's so much stuff in SLEX that would probably be full time job for a year 14:56 it still needs some work but from what i understand the dev (AntiGulp) actually cares about user feedback and game balance 14:56 and it's quite kitchen-sinky 14:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 15909 points, T:12754, killed by a bolt of lightning 14:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (class h), on T:1924 14:59 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Jed Clk Fem Cha), 13266 points, T:1948, quit 14:59 <@malor> I have played Splicehack and it is really good actually. 14:59 slplicehack has a LOT of elements taken from slash'em, with also a lot of her own custom content added 14:59 unfortunately antigulp hasnt been around much the last couple months 15:00 guess she's been busy 15:00 last update to splicehack repo was almost a month ago. maybe she's just on extended holiday 15:00 <@malor> I played 14 games and I think I had the hang of it. I was playing the easier role/races of course. I am not even looking to play at all right now. I just like the idea of the game existing 🙂 15:01 i wonder whether malor is on that slippery path to becoming a variant dev 🤔 15:01 <@malor> no. Because the first part of that path is to be proficient in programming in "C". Which I am not. I am a web programmer. And that's it 🙂 15:02 eh C aint' so hard 15:02 i learnt it when i was 12 15:02 anyone can 15:02 <@nabru> I was going to create a variant to play with some ideas I have. Then I realized my knowledge of C ends at Hello World. 15:02 <@malor> I'm sure I could learn C. Or French. Or Mandarin. Or a lot of things. I'm not going to though 🙂 15:02 malor: Amy didn't know C when she started 15:03 lol fair 15:03 there's cooler stuff you could learn anyway 15:03 like Rust :3 15:03 <@nabru> I'm considering writing a roguelike in Rust as a learning project in the future 15:03 : O 15:03 thats like my dream nabru!! 15:03 <@nabru> But first I need to find the time 15:03 wanna collaborate? 15:03 <@malor> I already have a very cool project that I'm finally working on. I'm not playing any games and the only programming I will be doing is on my own stuff and a little on the scoreboard page as that's in a language I'm already well versed in 🙂 15:04 <@nabru> Sure aoei, when I have the time to go back to learning Rust 15:04 the perl scoreboard's days are numbered tho malor, just fair warning 15:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 501 points, T:935, killed by an uninjured dwarf 15:04 i envision a bright future with Rust and React 15:04 and cool search features 15:04 easier maintainability 15:05 <@malor> I also have just gotten back into investing again since my friends are all into it again. So that's taking up thought-time as well. And real-time. 15:06 what are your friends into now 15:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Hea Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:3145 15:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:14894 15:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Hea Hum Mal Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3482 15:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Hea Hum Mal Neu) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:3677 15:10 oh i misread that entirely and thought what you were getting into was a time investment 15:11 lol 15:11 <@malor> Hydrogen power online home buying bitcoin mining genome splicing Chinese electric car manufacturers Autonomous driving Those are the areas they like. Me, I am into investment companies as this is going to be a BIG YEAR for investing I think. It probably already has been really. Morgan Stanley is a company I have liked for a while so I bought some of them today again. 15:12 invest 2 hours, stonks go up, get back 3 hours 15:12 lmao aosdict 15:12 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:30787 15:12 Last year was a big year to get into investing 15:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 264 points, T:1047, killed by an uninjured hobbit 15:13 <@malor> most years in the USA have been pretty good investing years in general. And if you chose correctly all of them were 🙂 15:13 US stock market is at all time highs, at some point it will stop making new highs, the question is when and how much the stimulus will affect it 15:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:16262 15:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Hea Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Empiric, on T:4185 15:14 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) genocided krakens, on T:30797 15:14 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Jed Clk Fem Cha), 3622 points, T:1049, quit 15:14 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) genocided electric eels, on T:30799 15:15 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 271 points, T:589, killed by a jackal 15:15 -!- Nelennath has joined #hardfought 15:20 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon her by Quetzalcoatl, on T:16862 15:23 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 15:24 <@malor> the stimulus has been weird. I thought a few years ago that the USA had a constrained amount of money to use. Turns out - nope. They can use whatever amount they want 🙂 15:25 -!- Nelennath has quit [] 15:25 <@malor> I agree asodict, that's why I have been out for a long time. Which has basically cost me a lot of theoretical gains of course 🙂 But I'm back in for now due mostly to peer pressure 🙂 Which is how you should decide your financial future, right? But I'm playing it safe, or trying to do so. 15:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 1167 points, T:6027, killed by a wand 15:27 <@malor> since I have been out the market has gone up by 17.83%. So that kind of sucks 🙂 15:29 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1870 points, T:1612, killed by Ms. Pengalengan, the shopkeeper 15:30 <@riker> i admire people who have the dedication & knowledge to successfully play the stock market 15:31 -!- Deathsushi has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 15:32 idk I see it as a high-brow and normalised form of gambling 15:32 if you can actually do it successfully, cool, but I think many people lose money thinking they can do it successfully when they can't 15:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) signified by divine providence, was chosen to carry Excalibur, on T:18731 15:37 -!- Nelennath has joined #hardfought 15:37 @malor I'm stepping up my investments as well, but it's all low cost index funds for me 15:37 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Mal Cha) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:28246 15:38 with a small amount in clean energy because I want to support green energy and I think odds are pretty good on it becoming more widespread 15:40 -!- yanah has joined #hardfought 15:40 -!- yanah has quit [Excess Flood] 15:40 -!- yanah has joined #hardfought 15:40 -!- yanah has quit [Excess Flood] 15:41 -!- yanah has joined #hardfought 15:41 -!- yanah has quit [Excess Flood] 15:41 -!- yanah has joined #hardfought 15:41 -!- yanah has quit [Excess Flood] 15:41 -!- yanah has joined #hardfought 15:41 -!- yanah has quit [Excess Flood] 15:42 <@malor> index funds are perfectly good. Don't think that I plan on "playing the market". I'm just going to buy things I like and hold them for the most part. Although technically my actual trade was to "sell puts on Morgan Stanley" as I prefer to hedge on the bearish side right now. 15:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:19917 15:43 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1583 15:43 <@malor> index funds are great actually and they have one for literally EVERYTHING. You can buy "triple funds" even. Which are interesting. 15:44 -!- Nelennath has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] AlbertB (Arc Hum Mal Neu) killed Yeenoghu, on T:75105 15:44 a couple years ago FZROX was introduced and now you can get them with 0% expense ratio (other brokers had to introduce zero-cost index funds for competitiveness) 15:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 274 points, T:1462, killed by a wounded brown mold 15:46 <@riker> that's sorta what I think aoei 15:46 <@riker> I think theres definitely safe ways to do it but it's not something I feel is worth my time to put money into 15:47 I was reading a news article today about how news agencies are desperately trying to find someone who lost their life savings on gamestop, but all they can find is people who responsibly invested money they could afford to lose 15:47 <@malor> the costs for trades in general are zero now, other than options. It's really great. and it isn't gambling to buy an index fund or Amazon or Walmart and just HOLD IT FOREVER. It is to buy something like Bitcoin or a Bitcoin mine. 15:48 @riker it's definitely worth it to invest money into something low cost that you expect to go up decently over time and don't attempt to time the market 15:48 <@malor> But that is a problem that investing in the stock market has: A lot of it is "buy what you want". Why on earth are non-experts making their own decisions? I don't walk into a doctors office and say, "I think I want this procedure". No, the doctor tells you what you need and you can say "no", but he never asks you to do what you want. That does lead to "gambling type behavior". And that's an inherent issue with it. But you can do it 15:48 without gambling. 15:49 though you might be under 18, can't remember, in which case you can't legally open accounts 15:49 or at least not with a lot of legal guardian red tape 15:50 <@malor> but he is somehow old enough to play a game invented before he was born. Weird rules 🙂 15:50 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Jed Clk Fem Cha), 3154 points, T:2269, quit 15:50 -!- Nelennath has joined #hardfought 15:54 I will say it's bad financial advice to try and time the market, but I did happen to buy some index funds at the end of january and that's worked out well 15:55 (this statement is utterly meaningless since I will not be taking this money out for years) 15:59 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) polymorphed her first object, on T:21730 16:03 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) genocided blue dragons, on T:30962 16:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon her by Quetzalcoatl, on T:23512 16:11 aosdict: props for investing in renewables 16:11 i was literally gonna say earlier if ppl gonna invest do that 16:11 lol 16:11 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:31004 16:12 (we're probably already fucked, but at least try...) 16:12 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu) killed the Black Horse, on T:31005 16:16 <@riker> nah aosdict, malor, I am an Adult^tm 16:16 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) murdered his faithful dog, on T:6513 16:17 <@malor> cool, welcome to a way worse life riker! 16:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] efw (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 340 points, T:1289, poisoned by a little dart 16:17 <@riker> and I do have money invested in an assorted collection of tech stocks - but nothing risky and I dont touch it 16:18 <@riker> probably will withdraw that when its time to go broke for the sake of higher education 16:18 GME to the moon baby 16:18 <@malor> good advice K2! 16:18 <@riker> k2 remember me when you're on the news talking about how you got rich 16:18 hey... i just like the stock 16:18 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 7260 points, T:6720, killed by a dwarf 16:18 i'm actually down 47% from when i bought in lol 16:19 <@riker> idc about getting money from you I just expect you to quit your job and become a full time nethack player 16:19 just need to hold and pray 16:19 i wish riker 16:19 the guy from wallstreetbets who made millions on gamestop calls is testifying to congress on thursday 16:19 <@riker> LMAO didnt know that 16:19 <@malor> really. I didn't know that either! 16:19 along with the robinhood ceo and hedge funds 16:20 <@riker> I knew that 16:20 catching back up, yeah, i think splicehack or dnethack are your best bet if you're looking for a zany kitchen sink variant 16:20 <{Demo}> i wanna testify to congress about how they need to play ndnh 16:20 oh that was malor, i guess you already knew about dnh 16:20 splicehack > dnethack on the zaniness scale 16:20 but perhaps ndnh > splicehack 16:21 <{Demo}> nah ndnh is chill 16:21 <@riker> ndnh is crack 16:21 <{Demo}> no 16:21 <{Demo}> its chill 16:21 <@riker> demo gnomes have vapes 16:21 <{Demo}> name one whack thing in it other than lokoban 16:21 <@malor> I have played dnethack a few times. 16:21 'lokoban' 'nuff said 16:21 i do wish ndnh and slashthem were hosted on the usual public servers 16:21 <@riker> ndnh is on hdf isnt it 16:21 wut! 16:21 <{Demo}> ndnh is on hdf 16:21 yes 16:21 <@riker> jt was at one pt 16:21 <@malor> it is. 16:21 oh it totes is 16:21 has been for awhile 16:21 'totes adorbs' 16:21 <@riker> gnoll isnt :) 16:22 lolll 16:22 <{Demo}> gnoll was 16:22 <{Demo}> for a bit 16:22 for like 2 days 16:22 gnoll is one for the sociology history books 16:22 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Ran Cen Fem Neu), 3998126 points, T:31019, ascended 16:22 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/m/mobileuser/evilhack/dumplog/1612904367.evil.html 16:22 <@malor> is gnoll still being developed? 16:22 \o/ 16:22 i have tried both crack and ndnh 16:22 yes 16:22 can confirm they have the same effect 16:22 <@malor> congrats mobileuser! 16:22 congrats mobileuser \o/ 16:22 <{Demo}> ndnh has nothing to do with crack at all 16:22 @malor yes, but completely unplugged from the general nethack community and AFAIK, the general roguelikes community 16:22 <{Demo}> it is a very normal variant that is often misunderstood 16:22 grats mobileuser 16:22 thanks! 16:22 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 13411 points, T:5516, killed by an Uruk-hai 16:23 3-streak 16:23 nice! 16:23 <{Demo}> the core additions are very neat and not goofy 16:23 <@malor> very nice! 16:23 wow 16:23 damn...musta missed the IC transporter 16:23 <@riker> I still really like the acu endgame idea 16:23 they carved out their own little fiefdom, with a discord server and self-hosting the game 16:23 spicycebolla: huh interesting 16:24 altho iirc you can still play it on hdf too right? 16:24 <@riker> nah it was taken off 16:24 gnollhack? pr sure no 16:24 ohhh sorry 16:24 gnollhack was hosted for all of 2 days and i pulled it 16:24 but apparently i can't spot changes in the DGL menu 16:24 i was thinking of grunt 16:24 <@riker> it was really crashy iirc and after like 2 days k2 said fuck that to dealing with it? 16:24 nah i think you're right spicycebolla 16:24 oh aoei btw, grunthack server is down now too 16:24 grunt is on hdf, gnoll i think isn't 16:24 K2: oh really? 16:25 as in the original one 16:25 yeah 16:25 <{Demo}> they save broke way hard in the middle of saves or something 16:25 for a long while it was just the website down but now its all of it 16:25 nhs may have automatically flipped it to static after a failed HTTP GET anyway 16:25 but thanks for the heads up 16:25 oh that reminds me of a lukewarm take: 16:25 now that evil is all grown up (or at least teenagered) and actively developed, JNH doesn't need sporkhack anymore 16:25 blaspheme 16:26 <@riker> lmao 16:26 there's so many variants and half of them are dead! 16:26 sporkhack is not dead 16:26 its just resting 16:26 <@riker> its pining for the fjords 16:26 <{Demo}> the author still abides 16:26 its a heavy sleeper, maybe it looks dead when sleeping i dunno 16:26 deep down, aren't we all pining for the fjords? 16:27 or at least sprucing 16:27 Unix SporkHack Version 0.6.5 (git fcddb5b) - last build Wed Jun 3 16:08:11 2020. 16:27 ^ not dead 16:27 <{Demo}> < not dead 16:27 wot 16:27 im not dead! 16:28 i love sporkhack, as far as i'm concerned it'll always be hosted on hardfought 16:28 <{Demo}> didnt want to invoke the name 16:28 you are sporkhack?! 16:28 but someone has clearly looted my body 16:28 hi lorimer lol 16:28 <{Demo}> nobody invoked ur name 16:28 <{Demo}> how'd u hear? 16:28 magic 16:29 i grepped /var/news 16:29 is grunt alive too? 16:29 iunno, poke it with a stick and see 16:29 <@riker> grunt is cool it should stay 16:29 <@riker> I mean nobody's complaining about killing evilhack and that dev is deader than a doornail 16:30 yeah its staying too 16:30 <{Demo}> grunt is cool 16:30 * K2 glares at riker 16:30 <{Demo}> k2 is undead 16:31 the main inspiration for evilhack was grunthack and sporkhack. why would i drop them? 16:31 nerp 16:31 dang, i hoped evil was gonna consume grunt and spork 16:31 <{Demo}> hey k2 drop slashem cuase now we have slex 16:31 <{Demo}> :^) 16:31 and variants would slow down a little on proliferation 16:31 for june! 16:31 <{Demo}> hey k2 drop nethack 3.7 cause now we have nethack 4 16:31 {Demo} actually, slashTHEM is being actively developed. i should drop slex for it 16:31 <{Demo}> hehe 16:31 :P 16:32 <{Demo}> 4 > 3.7, someone should warn the DT about this 16:32 next you'll say nethack 1.3d should go away 16:33 hi lorimer 16:33 spicycebolla your words hurt 16:33 you want me to go to my safe space dont you 16:33 :) 16:33 hey lorimer wb 16:33 variant proliferation is a problem 16:33 <@malor> is the dev for slashThem on here ever? Or does anyone here know them? 16:33 that is not a hot take 16:34 hot take we need more variants 16:34 <@malor> there should be as many variants as there are bitcoin forks. 16:34 hi hi hi. i dunno if i'd say "back" but at least "not immediately ded" 16:34 oh, 4real tho, nh4 and nh343 are super redundant 16:34 o7 16:34 @malor i've never seen soviet5lo on irc 16:34 either way good to read your words lorimer 16:34 <@nabru> Everyone should create a variant! 16:34 but hey even if you were dead your legacy of orctown would live on 16:34 <@riker> im going to make my own dnh variant but with the stupid ideas i come up with 16:35 <@nabru> !lastgame porkman 16:35 @nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/porkman/notdnethack/dumplog/1591900059.ndnh.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/p/porkman/dnethack/dumplog/1546799633.dnh.txt 16:35 <@malor> each individual game should save its "seed" and be labeled a new variant. 16:35 the hate it generates could sustain me forever :D 16:35 <@riker> i have local patches for things like boomboxes & a really really really hacky awful pokeball magical tool 16:35 lorimer: loool 16:35 hahah 16:35 but hate is not very tasty tbh. i prefer pie 16:35 <@nabru> Hate is boring 16:35 everyone, tell lorimer you love orctown. break the spell! 16:35 i bet there are people out there who would be physically incapable of such an act 16:35 (actually does like it, free altar) 16:36 like their fingers clenched up and refused to type it 16:36 hah 16:36 lorimer: orc town is really cute and i love the orc names 16:36 esp the scattered orcs throughout mines for foreshadowing 16:36 the altar is technically already free, you just have to get accustomed to murder! 16:36 the only really bad thing about orc town is that it might leave the game without any shop at all 16:36 aoei: thank you! :D 16:36 lorimer, aosdict made a neat version of orctown for xnethack 16:36 otherwise its just fine 16:36 <@riker> spicy u had the cannibal kitchen orctown patch for spl right? 16:36 lorimer: it's also quite convenient for sacfesting if you can handle taking on a lot of orcs at once 16:36 k2: whatd he tweak? 16:36 or at least less bad than people say for 'normal' games 16:37 a general store is active, the shopkeeper is barricaded within 16:37 (IMO the toughest thing about orctown is that it's one helluva surprise if you were counting on a normal minetown) 16:37 oh that's a nice touch 16:37 that's pretty good, yeah 16:37 lorimer: lol yea 16:37 yeah i was tryna make it so orctown has a kobold with a tin opener and a dented pot, who spawns next to a furnace and a sink 16:37 i prefer regular minetown for realtime speedrunning 16:37 and thematically they're a cook for the orcs 16:37 because you need to do a bit of price id to find the identify scroll 16:37 oh and iceboxes full of gnomes and dwarves 16:38 and you might not have shops in the main dungeon as stenno says 16:38 i say need, you can random read scrolls if you really have to 16:38 i thought xnh just has the lighting shop now, not a general shop 16:38 for evilhack i might add a priest of moloch to it, that's hostile 16:38 fun times 16:38 jeez k2 16:38 noooo! 16:38 :P 16:38 so you can't id scrolls, u just check for a magic lamp and then #quit as needed 16:39 pretty sure its a general store 16:40 you can still throw items in for price id 16:40 (if it wasn't genstore) 16:40 ooh, nice stenno3 16:40 -!- stenno2 is now known as stenno 16:41 lorimer: its in your might to bring the barricaded genstore to vanilla... :P 16:41 in your power 16:41 by the power of greyskull! 16:41 https://github.com/copperwater/xNetHack/commit/7a5f2bc0657ea52c7784165da860605aa6905d15 16:42 good lord, bitcoin up to 48.5k usd 16:42 its gonna hit 50 16:42 K2: it was at 50k earlier today 16:42 wow 16:42 xrp up too 16:43 I have 2.7 eth I've lost key to 16:43 I am hoping that the price doesn't increase too much 16:43 noooooo 16:43 because that would make me feel increasingly bad 16:43 kinda makes sense because izchak is weirdly buff for OOC reasons relative to other shks, of course the harder to kill easter egg person is the one to survive the orcs 16:43 1 Ether equals 16:43 1,750.75 United States Dollar 16:43 * K2 hands Adeon a tissue 16:43 I originally bought 50 USD worth of BTC, then later converted them to 2.7 eth 16:44 spicycebolla you should try messing with Izchak in evilhack 16:44 go ahead 16:44 <@malor> to be safe, even when I am killing the keepers I never mess with Izchak in any variant. You never know. 16:45 <@nabru> You never mess with Izchak 16:45 well, you can... just be prepared to suffer the consequences 16:45 <@nabru> YASI: if you mess with Izchak, your god sends a blast of disintegration 16:46 i guess izchak being weirdly buff is no more illogical than elbereth 16:46 Adeon, i used to mine bitcoin back in 2013-2014. i was mining enough to cover my crazy electric bill and pay daycare each month 16:46 they're both completely OOC 16:46 and i would re-invest some of that bitcoin for more mining gear 16:46 <@nabru> I regret not getting into bitcoin earlier 16:46 i have some bitcoin left over, been holding for years 16:46 <@nabru> I read about it back in 2012 of so, but promptly forgot about it 16:47 <{Demo}> my friend from iran had an illegal (in iran not in us) mining operation going on there 16:47 a buddy of mine back in 2009 tried to get me into it 16:47 <{Demo}> went down during riots there before us election when they cut internet 16:47 past me is dumb 16:47 <{Demo}> got it back up some time after that but now the gov there is cracking down 16:47 oof 16:48 <{Demo}> was gonna try to put some capitol in and try to get some returns but he ended up not being interested 16:48 <{Demo}> i think power there is basically free 16:48 <{Demo}> just not reliable 16:48 <{Demo}> or, maybe he knew ppl stealing power, idk 16:49 <{Demo}> it's not a crime to the us government if its petty and in iran, probably 16:49 <{Demo}> actually no 16:49 <{Demo}> really bad idea to get involved with 16:49 <{Demo}> reallllllllllllly bad 16:49 <{Demo}> might get in trouble for funding terror groups somehow or something 16:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 487 points, T:1386, killed by an uninjured bat 16:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Arc Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:28248 17:00 hmm...displacer beast...first time ive encountered one 17:02 its surprisingly dangerous 17:05 is it higher on the "oops, died" scale than leocrotta? (for the levels where it shows up normally) 17:05 -!- star_cloud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07 -!- star_cloud has joined #hardfought 17:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:17396 17:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:3060 17:13 just above medusa level 17:16 -!- star_cloud has quit [Excess Flood] 17:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) attained the rank of Enchanter, on T:17550 17:18 -!- star_cloud has joined #hardfought 17:20 yasi: all the shopkeepers are named after real people, so that there are more weird taboos around cleaning out minetown 17:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:4231 17:21 Hardware store shopkeepers are already anagrams of devteam members 17:22 or maybe they're all backwards? 17:22 friggen minotaur almost suprised me 17:23 not all are backwards IIRC only most 17:23 if you ever run into Kachzi Rellim at a hardware store... look closely, he's izchak in disguise! 17:23 rutt roh...master mind flayer detected 17:23 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Jed Clk Fem Cha), 33527 points, T:3352, killed by a monster (quendi wierdo-lord) 17:23 <@Tone> This hardware store sucks, it's all candles! 17:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] repeat (Bar Hum Fem Neu), 1286 points, T:5065, killed by an uninjured gnome lord, while dressing up 17:27 -!- attie has quit [Quit: gone afk] 17:29 spicycebolla: i think its on the same dangerou/s level than leocrotta 17:30 they have much higher base level 17:30 12 instead of 6 17:30 stenno: one time i was trying to speedrun i had no genstores so after castle I threw all my scrolls into an armory and then robbed the place after iding id 17:30 so much more likely to hit you 17:30 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Neu), 2459 points, T:1098, quit 17:31 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 17:31 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 6318 points, T:6223, killed by a cauchemar, while helpless 17:32 tone: i just had one w/ 4 magic lamps ! 17:32 i'm usually getting the hardware stores with candles and tin openers too 17:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed fixed the orb of detection", on T:1977 17:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:2507 17:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:32610 17:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:32613 17:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:5525 17:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:5894 17:42 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Neu), 2312 points, T:701, killed by an arrow 17:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:33011 17:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:9246 17:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) destroyed shadowrider38's ghost, the former Skirmisher, on T:3714 17:46 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 17:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 3364 points, T:6245, killed by a wounded ice vortex 17:48 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Neu) received Gauge-O-Meter by Ford, on T:4146 17:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:33530 17:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:3495 17:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:33532 18:00 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Neu) received Confusticator by Ford, on T:7226 18:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:34796 18:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed wand of death named this wand kills wizards", on T:34950 18:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (10 times), on T:35203 18:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:3789 18:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:3830 18:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) entered a shop, on T:3926 18:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 2236 points, T:4184, killed by an uninjured fire ant 18:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 48 points, T:35, killed by an uninjured jackal 18:21 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Neu) received Bentshot by Ford, on T:12838 18:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Orcus, on T:35610 18:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:3284 18:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Bachelor, on T:3321 18:28 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring an amulet of magic resistance, on T:8263 18:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:35899 18:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "3 blessed charging", on T:35920 18:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:36037 18:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1054 points, T:2366, killed by an uninjured rothe 18:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:4150 18:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 747 points, T:1398, killed by an uninjured rothe, while frozen by a monster's gaze 18:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:4171 18:38 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Neu), 40974 points, T:13959, killed by an arrow 18:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:37803 18:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon her by Lugh, on T:4311 18:42 You begin praying to Tyr. You are surrounded by a shimmering light. Kaboom!!! Boom!! Boom!! 18:42 :D 18:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1405548 points, T:38132, killed by an uninjured ochre jelly (with the Amulet), while hiding from thunderstorm 18:44 rip 18:45 got overwhelmed :| 18:50 -!- stenno3 has joined #hardfought 18:50 <@luxidream> !lastgame nabru 18:50 @luxidream: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nabru/nethack/dumplog/1613428946.nh.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nabru/evilhack/dumplog/1605872855.evil.html | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nabru/nethack4/dumplog/2020-08-11%2011%3A15%3A06%2C%20Testin%27-Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 18:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) endured an absurd aquatic ceremony, and now wields Excalibur, on T:5740 18:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:3126 19:03 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:6305 19:04 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06 -!- Xjs has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Fighter, on T:3879 19:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:3933 19:08 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 19:11 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:4517 19:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:4644 19:15 -!- star_cloud has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 19:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed ezion's ghost, the former Sightseer, on T:5628 19:27 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:9119 19:40 -!- oh6 has quit [Quit: boopboop boop] 19:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at them by some watery tart, on T:7615 19:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:7743 19:43 -!- stenno3 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43 -!- stenno3 has joined #hardfought 19:43 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 19:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Sergeant, on T:9686 19:53 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:29518 20:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 439 points, T:1220, killed by a wounded giant mimic 20:07 <@nabru> !lastgame Deathsushi 20:08 @nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/Deathsushi/nethack/dumplog/1613518585.nh.html 20:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:6324 20:18 [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a +0 magical pair of boxing gloves on an altar, on T:3946 20:18 [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 3908 points, T:3965, killed by a shimmering dragon 20:20 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 20:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:6622 20:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased speed boots", on T:6623 20:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +3 gauntlets of power", on T:6628 20:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 the mitre of holiness", on T:6632 20:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] gturner (Val Hum Fem Neu) averted death (killed by uninjured Yeenoghu), on T:12006 20:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:3551 20:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Student of Stones, on T:8011 20:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:4509 20:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Mon Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:8124 20:49 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 20:51 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:5112 20:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] ezion (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 4 points, T:94, killed by a nearly deceased fox 20:54 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:56 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Mal Cha) had a pair of speed boots entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:30098 20:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] ezion (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 170 points, T:245, killed by a bear trap 21:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] ezion (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 81 points, T:111, killed by the wrath of Thoth 21:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] gturner (Val Hum Fem Neu), 22593 points, T:12010, killed by wounded Yeenoghu, while paralyzed by a monster 21:13 -!- luxidream has quit [Quit: Really quit? (Y/N)] 21:16 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/Deathsushi/nethack/dumplog/1613518585.nh.html 21:16 ^^^^ 21:16 so I've never really looked at the dumplog links here 21:16 but when did the dumplogs get this pretty? 21:17 it has colored terminal screen 21:17 the inventory is colored 21:17 is it hardfought-specific code? 21:18 !lastgame Adeon 21:18 Adeon: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Adeon/nethack/dumplog/1613326401.nh.html 21:18 marvelous 21:18 looks like yes it is settings dependent, my inventory is not colored 21:20 <@luxidream> you can mouse over the ascii to see what things are 21:23 please luxi 21:23 my mind is already blown 21:23 it even knows the dwarf is "uninjured" 21:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] HastyGlord (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "marker", on T:16244 21:24 the code must be based on the look code 21:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] HastyGlord (Val Dwa Fem Law) genocided class L, on T:16248 21:24 would be pretty nice if you could explore everything in a dumplog 21:24 like inventories of enemies 21:24 browse different levels 21:24 I guess that would be a whole new level of effort though 21:26 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 21:27 yo6 21:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Mon Hum Mal Law) read a Discworld novel, on T:1074 21:27 -!- Deathsushi has joined #hardfought 21:28 I have a scenario that is perplexing me 21:28 I have a bag that is uncursed (tested on an altar) 21:28 I'm offered 50 when I try to sell it 21:28 But when I'm burdened and fill it with items, I do not become unburdened 21:28 What could this bag be? 21:28 oilskin sack? 21:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 228 points, T:3010, killed by a wounded dwarf 21:28 Ah, does that sell for the same rate? 21:28 I thougth on holding and tricks were 50 21:29 base price of oilskin is 100 21:29 looks like yeah it's the same 21:29 Durp 21:29 Okay great — thank you 21:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] HastyGlord (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:16395 21:30 Yeah, base 100 bags are either oilskin or holding 21:30 If there's no weight change then it's oilskin 21:30 Good thing to put a BoH *in* 21:31 [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 2910 points, T:2863, quit 21:31 If you want a formal ID, I *think* you can try walking into a rust trap while wielding it and see the water slide off 21:32 I thought for some reason that if I #tipped an oilskin sack, some oil came out 21:32 But maybe that's randomly determined 21:32 you can dip it in fountain if you can deal with fountain hazards 21:32 you will get a special message 21:32 water slides off the bag 21:33 -!- star_cloud has joined #hardfought 21:35 can also use water potion 21:35 dip the bag to the potion 21:38 <@malor> Adeon, also if you could explore everthing in a dumplog I think you could use it to "cheat" since the dumplog is created while you play, right? 21:38 is it? I thought it's only upon death 21:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Mon Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2327 21:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] HastyGlord (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:17360 21:43 Fairly sure it's only when the game ends 21:43 <@Tone> It was fun digging out all the exploits in Cogmind's dumplogs when mid-game stat dumps got added 21:44 <@Tone> I've only seen dumplogs in NetHack from after the game has ended though 21:45 <@malor> If it is only on death then that works. 21:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:13007 21:47 <@Tone> Adeon: Have you played much since 3.6? The dumplogs now have a full dungeon description which is pretty nice 21:47 I have barely played since 3.4.3 21:47 <@Tone> It prints the output of the #overview command basically 21:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] HastyGlord (Val Dwa Fem Law), 249966 points, T:17638, killed by a wounded vampire, while paralyzed by a monster 21:47 I just learned about #tip 21:47 when deathsushi mentioned it 21:47 <@Tone> #terrain is a really nice command too now 21:47 I looked it up 21:47 <@Tone> ah, #tip is the new scare monster scroll meta 21:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:7101 21:48 <@Tone> keep the scroll in a sack and #tip it so you can drop it while it is protected from fire traps 21:48 Adeon it's pretty handy 21:48 Big improvement for 2-hd weapons users 21:48 does it drop on the floor or in your inventory? 21:49 <@Tone> floor 21:49 Onto the floor 21:49 Also works for stashed holy water, blessed remove curse, etc. 21:49 ah I see 21:49 very useful 21:49 or hmm 21:49 moderately useful 21:49 I will rank it B-tier 21:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 silver dragon scale mail named "Taintfarm"", on T:7308 21:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Mon Hum Mal Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon him by Shan Lai Ching, on T:2907 21:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) killed the Dark One, on T:19459 21:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:19461 22:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Mon Hum Mal Law) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3583 22:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:15057 22:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (class h), on T:20214 22:08 suck it mind flayer 22:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Woman-at-arms, on T:15184 22:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] YakumoRising (Cav Gno Fem Neu), 590 points, T:2418, killed by a wounded kitten 22:11 plenty of use for #tipping imo 22:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Rog Orc Mal Cha) killed Orcus, on T:42417 22:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 27200 points, T:16005, killed by a wounded ogre 22:26 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 22:26 -!- stenno3 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] YakumoRising (Cav Hum Fem Neu), 1510 points, T:2273, killed by an uninjured dwarf queen, while sleeping 22:35 Doe a bag make for a safe container to stash in? 22:35 Does* 22:37 -!- stenno3 has joined #hardfought 22:42 Not on its own 22:44 A chest is better? 22:45 Like mobs will loot from a bag, but not a chest? 22:45 If you can lock the chest, it's safer. 22:46 Some monsters can loot both, but not if they're locked and they don't have an unlocking tool. 22:46 A sack is better than nothing though, for convenience; just use normal stash precautions like hiding it under a boulder or spending as little time as possible on the floor. 22:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:10305 22:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:13272 22:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:12018 22:58 [hdf-us] [spl] KaiHerd (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:3490 23:00 [hdf-us] [spl] KaiHerd (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:3665 23:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] YakumoRising (Cav Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:3619 23:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] YakumoRising (Cav Hum Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:3659 23:02 Andrio: I thought that mobs wouldn't unlock chests 23:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] YakumoRising (Cav Hum Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:3797 23:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kougyoku (Val Hum Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:24917 23:10 It's a 3.7ism 23:17 [hdf-us] [spl] KaiHerd (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) became literate by engraving "testing..", on T:4243 23:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Fighter, on T:3671 23:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:3700 23:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:3811 23:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] ezion (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) murdered her faithful kitten, on T:969 23:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] ezion (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 39 points, T:587, killed by a nearly deceased goblin 23:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] YakumoRising (Cav Hum Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:6918 23:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] ezion (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 24 points, T:211, killed by a nearly deceased goblin 23:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] ezion (Tou Hum Mal Neu) murdered his faithful kitten, on T:807 23:51 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Bar Orc Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:67289 23:51 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Bar Orc Mal Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:67290 23:55 -!- Deathsushi has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 23:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] ezion (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 684 points, T:1716, killed by an uninjured rothe 23:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] shadowrider38 (Val Dwa Fem Law) has been given Excalibur, and now enjoys supreme executive power, on T:5990