00:00 <tinklebear> but yeah, I've heard old people mention this too
00:00 <aoei> i thought needing less sleep as you age was pretty standard lol
00:00 <aoei> but everybody is different too :)
00:00 <tinklebear> yeah. I heard it all the time
00:00 <tinklebear> true. vive la diff
00:01 <aoei> LA VIE BOHEM
00:01 <aoei> ~
00:01 <tinklebear> arga warga!
00:01 <aoei> i just got a song from rent stuck in myhead now lol
00:01 <tinklebear> have never seen this play
00:01 <aoei> do you know that movie
00:01 <aoei> slash musical
00:01 <aoei> ah
00:01 <aoei> fair enough
00:02 <tinklebear> oh, movie/musical. okay.
00:02 <aoei> well i think it was a play first
00:02 <aoei> i saw the movie musical version
00:02 <tinklebear> is it more like star wars, or more like rock horror picture show?
00:02 <tinklebear> *rocky
00:03 <aoei> erm
00:03 <aoei> well star wars is shit
00:03 <aoei> so i'd say it's more like rhps
00:03 <tinklebear> oh, right. musical.
00:04 <tinklebear> and star wars almost revels in being crap, come to think of it. you're right!
00:04 <aoei> haha
00:05 <aoei> im a bit hard on star wars maybe
00:05 <aoei> just never been a big fan of the series lol
00:05 <tinklebear> one of the recent ones, I thought was unwatchable, till I put on the french dub
00:06 <tinklebear> voice actor for old han solo was incredible
00:06 <aoei> hahaha
00:06 <aoei> cool
00:06 <aoei> i don't think i saw that one
00:06 <aoei> i saw rogue one or something i think
00:06 <aoei> that one was ok
00:06 <tinklebear> bogue-toi, la Boule!
00:06 <tinklebear> *bouge
00:06 <aoei> i think hans solo one was the one my brother got hired to help with pre-production for
00:07 <tinklebear> oh, the yung han one?
00:07 <aoei> for some scene they were choreographing involving parkour
00:07 <aoei> cuz my brother does parkour and occasionally gets these wild gigs
00:07 <tinklebear> cool.
00:07 <aoei> he met jennifer lopez once and is in a music video
00:07 <aoei> not kidding
00:07 <tinklebear> lol
00:08 <spicycebolla> i used to live with the sleazy younger brother of some member of They Might Be Giants
00:08 <aoei> apparently she seems p chill
00:08 <aoei> spicycebolla: no way lol
00:09 <spicycebolla> i wish he was less gross
00:09 <aoei> yah thats unfortunate
00:09 <spicycebolla> so is parkour your sib's main "job"?
00:10 <spicycebolla> seems like a sweet way to pay rent
00:10 <aoei> eh not really
00:10 <aoei> like he got some really crazy gigs occasionally
00:10 <aoei> but they were few and far between
00:10 <aoei> so one of his main jobs for a while was waiter
00:10 <aoei> now things are a bit tough obviously
00:10 <aoei> tho he started uni doing some accounting course or something
00:11 <aoei> and does a bit of deliveroo work, which is kinda a trash job but u gotta get money somehow
00:11 <aoei> actually haven't heard from him in a while hope he's doing alright
00:12 <aoei> he caught the rona too but i think it was a mild case
00:12 <aoei> fortunately
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00:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Thidwick (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed Baalzebub, on T:51358
00:26 <aoei> K2: belated reaction but this track is pretty cool
00:26 <aoei> i think i have heard it at some point
00:26 <aoei> it sounds vaguely familiar
00:26 <aoei> (tears for fears shout)
00:37 -!- winny is now known as wInNy
00:39 <spicycebolla> that was my dad's driving-a-bit-too-fast song
00:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Rog Hum Fem Neu), 1144 points, T:2291, killed by a vrock of Kos
00:40 <spicycebolla> he played it on a cassette tape
00:40 <spicycebolla> in a sebring, until it flipped over on black ice and got totalled
00:40 <bouquet> that song got a lot of play in our cassette player on road trips, too.
00:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Thidwick (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:52008
00:44 <Umbire> What song?
00:45 <Umbire> Also hi spicy <3
00:45 <Umbire> ...I miss Neko :c
00:46 <bouquet> (tears for fears shout)
00:50 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 156 points, T:358, killed by a steel crossbow bolt
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00:50 <Umbire> Hi raisse
00:52 <Umbire> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
00:53 <Umbire> the smoky potion for this mobile run's GL...
01:04 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) averted death (killed by a jaguar), on T:2186
01:05 <arahael> Umbire: That's not too bad!
01:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 704 points, T:1739, killed by a giant cockroach
01:05 <arahael> Umbire: Every time you do get a wish... Wish for TWO blessed potions of GL? ;)
01:06 <arahael> (Does that work?)
01:06 <Umbire> It's not a guaranteed wish to begin with so yes it CAN work
01:06 <Umbire> problem is not only is that gonna fuck me if I want to curse one as an escape plan
01:06 <Umbire> but I'm """limited""" to gain energy for efficient alchemizing of FH
01:07 <Umbire> Hopefully I won't need too many wishes but this is a bind
01:07 <arahael> Ah, fair point.
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01:21 <aoei> got a possible tc run going
01:21 <aoei> castle wand get t:1671
01:21 <aoei> 0:2 wand thinking about wishes
01:21 <aoei> i already know charging fortunately
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01:23 <Umbire> gogogogogo
01:23 <aoei> nobody has even done sub-10k on 3.7 yet
01:23 <aoei> should be doable
01:23 <aoei> dungeon was a bit crap but i might loot the valley for srolls
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01:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Nelennath (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:10488
01:41 <aoei> 5 wishes means I get what: "oR, BoH, 3 cursed geno and 2 markers
01:41 <aoei> that's gonna be tight
01:42 <aoei> i could check perseus and get by with a sack and a shield of reflection to conserve wishes but using the shield kinda sucks as a caster
01:43 <aoei> with regen ring it's maybe ok
01:43 <aoei> bleh
01:43 <aoei> wat do
01:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Thidwick (Cav Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Roamer, on T:52871
01:48 <spicycebolla> speed boots aren't important for tc runs?
01:48 <aoei> nah
01:49 <aoei> but i should write that spellbook too
01:49 <aoei> I need healing, detmon, identify, haste self and magic mapping
01:49 <aoei> which is gonna cost me a lot of marker
01:50 <aoei> if i luck into speed boots from castle stores it saves having to cast the spell
01:50 <aoei> but you don't actually *need* the boots
01:51 <aoei> up to 130 marker charges just to write all those books jesus
01:51 <aoei> more if i roll badly because you can still fail with 10 luck
01:52 <aoei> would be really nice to find a marker on the ground at some point
01:52 <aoei> or luck into a sack and make do with that, mino and titan have high carry cap at least
01:58 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 4898 points, T:5780, killed by a snake
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02:41 <Umbire> @luxidream Time?
02:42 <rld> <@luxidream> slow af
02:42 <rld> <@luxidream> :c
02:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2328
02:42 <rld> <@luxidream> 1:38
02:43 <Umbire> Ah rip
02:43 <Umbire> Assuming that L took some valuable time
02:44 <Umbire> along with that fucking remove curse screwjob
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02:45 <rld> <@luxidream> yea that was shopless
02:45 <rld> <@luxidream> so no loot
02:46 <rld> <@luxidream> also no altars
02:47 <Umbire> Yeah you had to go back to fucking
02:47 <Umbire> Orc Town I heard
02:47 <amateurhour> shopless conduct preserved?
02:54 -!- VaderFLAG has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
02:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 18759 points, T:3509, killed by a half-dragon mummy
03:00 <tinklebear> think I'll just leave the longbow of diana on the floor in the basement where it belongs
03:01 <tinklebear> Sorry, Orion. Couldn't find it!
03:04 <Umbire> lolwut
03:04 <tinklebear> my quest artifact is hot garbage, basically
03:04 <Umbire> I could've told you that
03:04 <Umbire> Might as well keep it though
03:05 <tinklebear> have to have it in the first place, to keep it. not touching that PoS
03:05 <Umbire> lol
03:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 2842 points, T:1834, killed by a rolling boulder trap
03:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 91 points, T:133, killed by a jackal
03:19 <aoei> the L didn't seem to slow lux down all that much actually
03:19 <aoei> @luxidream did you have MR?
03:20 <aoei> i can't see how you would with such a trash dungeon
03:20 <aoei> but if you survived the L without it wow
03:21 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
03:21 <rld> <@luxidream> nope
03:21 <rld> <@luxidream> we lived
03:21 <rld> <@luxidream> no m
03:21 <rld> <@luxidream> MR
03:21 <aoei> damn lol
03:21 <aoei> did you have ?osm or anything
03:21 <aoei> it's still broken in 3.6.6 right
03:21 <aoei> actually wait they should still work on L in 3.7
03:22 <rld> <@luxidream> i spammed a lot of elbereth to get closer to the stairs without dying
03:22 <aoei> but you had to get to the stairs to kill it
03:22 <aoei> ah
03:22 <aoei> you must be able to type E- Elbereth very fast I didn't notice it at all lol
03:22 <rld> <@luxidream> I think I did it at least once
03:22 <rld> <@luxidream> when I got nasties summoned on me
03:22 <aoei> ah yeah
03:23 <rld> <@luxidream> he can't kill me outright though, no touch of death
03:23 <aoei> oh only master lich?
03:23 <aoei> is it just arch that can do it?
03:24 <rld> <@luxidream> master lich is too low level,
03:24 <aoei> did you lose any armour to the spell
03:24 <rld> <@luxidream> I lost my helmet
03:24 <aoei> ok that's not so bad
03:24 <aoei> lol
03:25 <rld> <@luxidream> not that I had anything good
03:25 <aoei> also cloak reasons: i think similarly to scroll s of enchant you'll lose cloak before body armour
03:25 <aoei> right but losing mithril at castle would have sucked
03:25 <aoei> kinda
03:25 <aoei> okey i will go for walkies while i ponder my tc strats
03:25 <aoei> bbiab
03:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2547
03:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 21357 points, T:3957, killed by a xorn
03:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 832 points, T:942, killed by a marid
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03:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 189 points, T:560, killed by a jackal
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04:21 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] Hatamaru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1685 points, T:2152, quit
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04:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] Hatamaru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 632 points, T:2376, killed by a rothe
04:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:1548
04:42 <amateurhour> how's your slex game going Amy?
04:43 <LarienTelrunya> amateurhour: still in Gehennom looking for the Sheol entrance
04:43 <LarienTelrunya> probably won't continue today though
04:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 918 points, T:2251, killed by an uninjured giant bat
04:49 <amateurhour> what's the difference from non-slex sheol?
04:49 <LarienTelrunya> main difference is that sheol is no longer optional, but it's also considerably longer, has more level variation (but not enough, need to work on that eventually) and the crystal ice golems were replaced by weaker monsters
04:50 <LarienTelrunya> crystal ice golems still exist, but they're no longer guaranteed to spawn in there
04:50 <amateurhour> what's not optional about it?
04:50 <LarienTelrunya> well, the vlad stair is in there
04:51 <amateurhour> on bottommost floor?
04:51 <LarienTelrunya> lol that would be too easy :P on a random floor and you have to find out which one
04:52 <amateurhour> is there still a marker?
04:52 <LarienTelrunya> dunno, but probably?
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05:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] Hatamaru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2384 points, T:5894, killed by a scorpion
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05:52 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:10081
05:53 <aoei> :o
05:53 <aoei> really tight turncount there elenmirie's got
05:54 <aoei> very nice
05:54 * aoei watches
05:54 <aoei> oof Yeenoghu
05:54 <aoei> that's annoying
05:55 <aoei> i wonder how she's doing for rt
05:55 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Yeenoghu, on T:10169
05:55 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:10170
05:56 <aoei> elenmirie__: time?
05:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] quark (Gre Sli Fem Cha), 19 points, T:679, killed by a monster (torchbearer mob), while fainted from lack of food
05:56 <elenmirie__> I have no idea
05:56 <aoei> ah okay fair
05:56 <aoei> well you just saved so that'd help figure it out based on ttyrecs
05:56 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
05:56 <aoei> !lastgame elenmirie
05:56 <Beholder> aoei: [hdf-us] (sorry, no dump exists for xnh:elenmirie) | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/e/elenmirie/nethack/dumplog/1611572351.nh.html
05:56 <elenmirie__> I think it's decent, but I've saved a lot
05:56 <aoei> that makes checking the ttyrecs a bit more work i suppose
05:56 <elenmirie__> so Ive lost track
05:59 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) performed her first genocide (alhoons), on T:43825
05:59 <aoei> wow you weren't kidding
05:59 <mobileuser> ^ revenge
05:59 <aoei> are any of these scumming for 20 con
06:00 <stenno2> so if rawrmage wrote the nhqdb stuff in like 2011,2012
06:00 <aoei> i can possibly ignore a few at the beginning
06:00 <stenno2> wasn't he like 14 then or so
06:00 <aoei> erm
06:00 <aoei> yes that sounds about right lol
06:00 <aoei> i think he was a couple of years younger than me
06:00 <aoei> wait 2011
06:00 <aoei> maybe he was 18
06:00 <aoei> i wanna say 16-18
06:01 <aoei> but i'm unsure
06:01 <aoei> tbh
06:01 <stenno2> ok
06:01 <aoei> he died only 25-27 i guess :c
06:01 <aoei> rip in peace in peace
06:01 <stenno2> yeah it is like that
06:01 <aoei> yeah
06:01 <aoei> sad
06:02 <stenno2> the things he wrote back then made me very happy yesterday lol
06:02 <aoei> awe
06:02 <stenno2> its still kinda surreal
06:02 <aoei> yeah :/
06:02 <aoei> here's hoping we're still aliv
06:02 <APic> !PoM
06:02 <Beholder> APic: The moon is waxing gibbous; full moon in 2 days.
06:02 <aoei> and playing nethack
06:02 <aoei> when we're 80
06:02 <aoei> lol
06:02 <APic> ☺
06:03 <stenno2> i guess, depends a bit on how the future will look like
06:03 <aoei> truuuue
06:03 <aoei> let's see
06:03 <APic> There is an uncountably infinite Amount of possible Futures
06:03 <stenno2> indeed
06:03 <stenno2> more than a myriad which is iirc countable
06:07 <aoei> elenmirie__: 2h 47m
06:07 <aoei> i think
06:07 <aoei> sub-3h would be really tight but you might still get a really good time
06:07 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 193 points, T:654, killed by a brown mold
06:08 <elenmirie__> oh, thanks aoei
06:09 <aoei> the name of each ttyrec gives you a starting time and the modification date to the right of that on the ttyrec page as displayed in my browser gives you the end
06:09 <aoei> so i added those up quickly
06:09 <aoei> but with rough maths so i might bea bit out lol
06:09 <aoei> and you did save a *lot*
06:09 <elenmirie__> sorry!
06:09 <elenmirie__> :D
06:09 <aoei> haha its ok i counted the voluntarily
06:10 <elenmirie__> I have a tendency to save whenever distracted or when I need to think
06:10 <arahael> aoei: How rough are you talking about? ;) Is it like "2 + 2 equals... Eh... 5..."? ;)
06:10 <aoei> yeah i've stopped doing that as much not to try and get wallclock times
06:10 <aoei> arahael lol
06:10 <aoei> well i'd round off second sometimes
06:10 <aoei> plus the ttyrec filename has seconds and the modification date i see doesn't
06:10 <aoei> so it's a precision issue also
06:11 <aoei> s/not/now
06:11 <arahael> Ah, interesting. Sounds like it'd be more than enough.
06:11 <aoei> well its also just my mushy human brain and mental adding
06:11 <aoei> i also could have skipped files by accident when reading
06:12 <arahael> Heh, yeah, that might mess it up a bit.
06:13 <aoei> but if im not too far off elenmirie__ could beat her own best time for 3.7.0 and both stenno and microlance
06:13 <aoei> elenmirie__: no pressure. go ascend quickly :D
06:14 <elenmirie__> :p
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06:20 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) bribed Baalzebub with 30 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:10894
06:26 <aoei> nice bribe
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06:30 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 1327 points, T:2841, killed by a garter snake, while frozen by a monster's gaze
06:35 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed ring of levitation", on T:11237
06:36 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:11243
06:43 * spicycebolla is dereferenced
06:43 <aoei> but what were you pointing at my dear
06:46 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [nh370] Arahael (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1246 points, T:2418, killed by an acidic glob
06:53 -!- amateurhour has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:53 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [nh370] Tangles (Sam Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Joshu, on T:11716
06:53 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [nh370] Tangles (Sam Hum Fem Law), 26662 points, T:11728, killed by a wounded air elemental
06:54 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:11756
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06:59 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [nh370] Arahael (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 923 points, T:2074, killed by a potion of holy water
06:59 <arahael> Heh: This burns like acid! Your affinity to werejackals disappears! You die...
06:59 <arahael> Yes. Death is a good way to cure lycantrophy.
07:02 -!- krm26 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:02 <nabru> "It worked! You're dead, but no longer have lycanthrophy."
07:03 <stenno2> operation success patient died
07:03 <LarienTelrunya> haha. a while ago I made it so that dying cures the player character of anorexia in slex :P
07:12 <Beholder> [hdf-au] [nh370] Tangles (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:1720
07:13 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Con Gno Fem Cha), 100 points, T:333, killed by a jackal
07:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3013
07:14 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:12490
07:18 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:12620
07:20 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) genocided class ;, on T:12631
07:23 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Astral Plane, on T:12796
07:24 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) put Death down for a little nap, on T:12803
07:27 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1088740 points, T:12835, ascended
07:27 <Beholder> https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/e/elenmirie/nethack/dumplog/1611574372.nh.html
07:27 <aoei> :o
07:27 <aoei> grats!!
07:27 <elenmirie__> thanks aoei!
07:28 <elenmirie__> not up to your level, I'm afraid :D
07:28 <nabru> gg elenmirie__ !
07:28 <elenmirie__> thanks nabru
07:28 <aoei> nhs still needs to update i think
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07:32 <aoei> elenmirie__: you made sub-4h :D
07:32 <elenmirie__> \o/
07:32 <elenmirie__> barely, but there you go
07:33 <amateurhour> gratz!!
07:33 <aoei> dw
07:33 <aoei> next time you will do even better and beat stenno's 370 pb too
07:33 <elenmirie__> thanks amateurhour!
07:33 <aoei> no pressure
07:33 <elenmirie__> heh
07:33 <amateurhour> just follow the speedrun race winner's winning strategy
07:33 <amateurhour> idle on water for ages and lose the portal three times
07:33 <amateurhour> :D
07:33 <aoei> hahahaha
07:35 <elenmirie__> lol I saw the portal several times before I could get to it
07:35 <elenmirie__> frustrating as hell
07:35 <aoei> ah thats annoying
07:35 <aoei> amateurhour: well we all know the best speedrunning advice is from kerio
07:35 <aoei> "just ascend quickly 4Head"
07:36 <elenmirie__> heh
07:36 <elenmirie__> hard to argue with that
07:36 <aoei> :D
07:36 <aoei> it's right up there after "don't die"
07:36 <elenmirie__> yah
07:37 <amateurhour> just do what you're already doing but faster
07:37 <aoei> ^ this
07:44 <mobileuser> "don't die" lol
07:45 <mobileuser> sounds like my advice on how to streak
07:47 <aoei> yeah that one is far more crucial for streaking
07:49 <aosdict> it sees the most use on telling newbies how to win nethack
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07:56 <aoei> haha
07:57 <aoei> shouldn't it b like
07:57 <aoei> just ascend 4head
07:57 <aoei> or, just get the ammy and give it to ur god kappa
07:57 <aosdict> no, that's a little too tautological when someone asks "how do I ascend"
07:57 <aoei> maybe the second one?
07:58 <aoei> i mean you said win first
07:58 <aoei> so if someone literally asks how to win it hink "just ascend 4head" is great advice
07:59 <stenno2> just locked myself out of a dev machine
07:59 <stenno2> now i have to wait for the IT person to unlock it
07:59 <aoei> uh oh
07:59 <stenno2> embarrassing
07:59 <amateurhour> good times
08:00 <stenno2> the perils of not running ssh on 22
08:00 <stenno2> sshd
08:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [4k] Owen (owen) (Pri Syl Fem Cha), 1140 points, T:744, killed by a manes, while frozen by a potion
08:16 -!- attie has joined #hardfought
08:28 <aoei> ah yis
08:28 <aoei> i know it well
08:28 <aoei> i put my linode ssh to port 69
08:28 <aoei> because i am a child
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09:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 29950 points, T:11486, petrified by a deceased chickatrice
09:02 <nabru> !lastgame samiam
09:02 <Beholder> nabru: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/s/samiam/nethack/dumplog/1611605076.nh.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/s/samiam/nethack/dumplog/1582658194.nh.html
09:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [ndnh] nabru (Mon Eth Fem Neu), 1076 points, T:990, quit
09:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] tsingi (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 577 points, T:1724, killed by a nearly deceased little dog
09:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 479 points, T:1745, killed by a heavily wounded invisible vampire lady
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09:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] spleen (Bar Orc Mal Cha) attained the rank of Brigand, on T:11327
09:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] spleen (Bar Orc Mal Cha) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by Set, on T:11332
09:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:38697
09:51 -!- spleen has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:00 <mobileuser> !rng quest | castle
10:00 <Beholder> mobileuser: quest
10:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [4k] Owen (owen) (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 3360 points, T:897, killed by a brown mold
10:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 67315 points, T:7006, killed by an invisible quinon, while helpless
10:05 <FIQ> aosdict: Rodney has a joke entry on how to ascend
10:06 <FIQ> in the grand scheme of things, there isn't much you need to do to ascend
10:06 <FIQ> the difficulty in NetHack is almost exclusively tactical
10:06 <{Demo}> wait how do i ascend?
10:07 <FIQ> {Demo}: press < on an upstair
10:08 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) had a pair of cloth jackboots entrusted to her by Moloch, on T:44981
10:10 -!- lxlldr has joined #hardfought
10:11 <{Demo}> thanks
10:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Hrnn (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:16870
10:13 -!- lxlldr has quit [Client Quit]
10:16 <stenno2> {Demo}: thanks for making me aware of the thing
10:16 <stenno2> i had so much fun in the last two days
10:16 <stenno2> and its not over, i am just a bit lazy right now
10:16 <{Demo}> im glad you've had time to look at it cause i've been swamped/in all the time not swamped working on some stupid stupid project infecting my mind
10:20 <stenno2> i think i could have progressed much faster but i wanna find all the little nooks and crannies :D
10:21 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) had a robe entrusted to her by Moloch, on T:45125
10:22 <stenno2> also i wonder where all the end of this is, how much i can actually look around on there and what else is ran there
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10:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [4k] Owen (owen) (Hea Syl Fem Neu), 1290 points, T:914, killed by a force bolt
10:29 -!- lxlldr has quit [Quit: Quit]
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10:31 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given Epoch's Curve, on T:2205
10:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Ana Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2152
10:33 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 3878 points, T:2639, quit
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10:43 -!- lxlldr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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10:52 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Arc Clk Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3164
10:52 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
10:58 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Arc Clk Fem Neu), 6382 points, T:3567, killed by a gnome lord
11:03 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Con Vam Fem Cha), 865 points, T:621, killed by a piranha
11:10 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Con Vam Fem Cha), 2630 points, T:1747, killed by an invisible gnome lord
11:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Rog Vam Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:720
11:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2010
11:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) was given Kingslayer, on T:2727
11:20 <{Demo}> kingslayer rocks
11:20 <{Demo}> as a carry item
11:21 <amateurhour> where did it go on your tierlist?
11:21 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 filth-crusted blade singer's saber", on T:3022
11:22 <{Demo}> idk i just made that all up when i did it so i dont remember
11:22 <{Demo}> hey wait, is riker doing the run I just did?
11:23 <{Demo}> ok no, did elven rogue apparently, the vampire was before it and a barb
11:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Hrnn (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:19397
11:28 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Con Vam Mal Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3395
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11:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) was given the Shield of Yggdrasil, on T:5831
11:40 <rld> <@Joanna> Bleh i have no energy for anything today
11:41 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Con Vam Mal Cha), 13558 points, T:4034, killed by a triton, while frozen by a monster's gaze
11:41 <Muad> confused charging?
11:41 <rld> <@Joanna> All out of scrolls too :C
11:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) wished for "2 cursed potions of giant turtle blood", on T:5999
11:41 <{Demo}> anything to confuse urself with at least?
11:42 <rld> <@Joanna> Hopefully tomorrow i can get to the stationery store for markers
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11:42 <rld> <@Joanna> Not currently demo... But my sister sent me 20 quid for takeout so maybe i can get beer with it lol
11:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 18 points, T:128, killed by a bear trap
11:46 <rld> <@Joanna> Lol that's cruel
11:46 <{Demo}> silver beartrap searing pain
11:51 <rld> <@riker> "The stone giant shoots a small rock!"
11:51 <rld> <@riker> i guess they're fresh out of boulders
11:51 <{Demo}> stoner giant slex monster lol
11:52 <aosdict> stoner giants carry potions of hallu
11:52 <rld> <@Joanna> Lol
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11:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:9051
11:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 597 points, T:1277, sent to the next life by a giant bat
11:58 <rld> <@Joanna> Oh i just realised I can make potions of gain energy
11:58 <{Demo}> uh oh
11:58 <rld> <@Joanna> Just add hot water to the leaves
11:58 <{Demo}> ok good
11:59 <{Demo}> shit, i might make some tea as well
11:59 <rld> <@Joanna> Lol did you think I meant meth or some shit
11:59 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
11:59 <{Demo}> "make potions of gain energy" could mean anything
11:59 <rld> <@Joanna> I guess
11:59 <{Demo}> like, idk, adrenochrome from screaming children or whatever that conspiracy goes
12:00 <rld> <@Joanna> Altho i imagine probs as something you drink
12:00 <rld> <@Joanna> So likely tea coffee or some sugar and co2 thing
12:01 <rld> <@Joanna> Potions *
12:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 13709 points, T:12918, killed by a gnome king
12:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:3075
12:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu) entered a shop, on T:3097
12:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu) entered a temple, on T:3219
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12:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Val Dwa Fem Law) consulted the Oracle, on T:6037
12:27 <Deathsushi> Yah I did
12:27 <Deathsushi> I consulted the hell out of her
12:27 <aoei> {Demo}: lol now i wanna watch fear and loathing
12:27 <aoei> jsut becauset thats the only thing i know adrenochrome ferom
12:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Rog Vam Fem Cha), 42021 points, T:7921, killed by an ammit
12:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) was given their Quest, on T:14205
12:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed the Master Assassin, on T:14995
12:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:6535
12:42 <hothraxxa> why isn't there a key to toggle autodig, or at least an enhanced command? it's such an obvious useful thing there must be a reason i'm too dense to see
12:43 <Deathsushi> I usually just leave mine on
12:43 <Deathsushi> That being said, I have yet to ascend so... :D
12:43 <hothraxxa> so do i but if you're wielding a mattock, it's a pita because you waste turns digging when you would rather have bumped into a wall
12:43 <Deathsushi> Ah, of course
12:44 <{Demo}> I agree
12:44 <{Demo}> with this message
12:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:6884
12:47 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] AlbertB (Arc Hum Fem Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2365
12:49 <rld> <@riker> hey k2 any dnh us crashes under rikersan??
12:49 <rld> <@luxidream> <FIQ> difficulty in NetHack is almost exclusively tactical
12:50 <hothraxxa> discuss
12:50 <hothraxxa> btw luxi thanks for the commentary on the race. it was terrific
12:50 <Deathsushi> Seconding hothraxxa
12:51 <rld> <@luxidream> thanks!
12:51 <rld> <@luxidream> missed some key moments but it’s hard to see everything
12:52 <hothraxxa> we definitely took you off track a couple of times, so that was inevitabel
12:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:4519
12:52 <hothraxxa> eg protection stacking
12:53 <infinigon> i wonder if it's possible to hook up Beholder to send a message in twitch chat when the runners reach key points
12:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 1247 points, T:1043, cut down by a giant ant
12:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 3975 points, T:4730, killed by a wand
12:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 927322 points, T:43012, quit
12:54 <infinigon> i also like the displays they use in randomiser races
12:54 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1897 points, T:1158, killed by a giant ant
12:54 <infinigon> that shows which items each runner has
12:54 <infinigon> but those are manually maintained afaict, and that's probably harder to keep up with for nethack
12:54 <hothraxxa> if they used curses then you'd have that, or rather something close to that
12:55 <infinigon> yeah, but screen real estate is quite precious it seems
12:55 <hothraxxa> that would really make the screen display bad for twitch
12:55 <infinigon> how does Beholder work under the hood?
12:55 <infinigon> like, how does it know when a player achieves something?
12:56 <hothraxxa> those events are livelogged
12:56 <rld> <@luxidream> I think aoei wanted to use curses
12:56 <aoei> yes i wanted to and i did lol
12:56 <aoei> only issue was i also wanted perm_invent
12:56 <rld> <@luxidream> but since stenno uses 80x24 tty, it wouldn’t look good without some tweaking
12:56 <aoei> but that was hard to fit in
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12:57 <rld> <@luxidream> stenno should use curses for the next race
12:57 * tinklebear harrumphs
12:57 <hothraxxa> perm-invent is what we're talking about though
12:58 <rld> <@luxidream> infinigon, we could probably write something that parses the message line for items picked up , dropped, and bagged
12:59 <rld> <@luxidream> And then provide that to viewers via a bot command
12:59 <infinigon> yeah, that would be super awesome
12:59 <infinigon> does the livelog output all messages?
12:59 <aoei> livelog only does certain things
12:59 <infinigon> Tangles: googling livelog I found this https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/pull/31
12:59 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
12:59 <infinigon> is this the latest up to date livelog code?
13:00 <rld> <@luxidream> actually just parsing game output wouldn’t work, since speedrunners often clear multi line messages with esc
13:00 <infinigon> yeah, I think it would still need some in-game integration somehow
13:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 9446 points, T:16283, killed by a giant zombie
13:00 <hothraxxa> i think tangles has beholder on github
13:01 <aoei> yeah something integrating into the actual source would be ideal lux but also a way more involved patch
13:02 <infinigon> I'm not opposed to doing some work here :P
13:02 <hothraxxa> well bhaak was talking about adding seed support so why not ask him for this at the same time?
13:02 * infinigon will code for free twitch entertainment
13:02 <aoei> infinigon: i might be motivated to get involved in that tbh
13:02 <aoei> beholder livelogging is a good place to start
13:02 <infinigon> :D
13:02 <infinigon> yeah, I think so too
13:03 <aoei> that already does a lot of what we need
13:03 <infinigon> which is why I want to see where the latest patch is at
13:03 <aoei> maybe ask Tangles
13:03 <rld> <@luxidream> one thing I would like that’s much simpler is for beholder to report real-time in some way
13:03 <aoei> I have a feeling he did a fair bit of that code
13:03 <hothraxxa> ok so basically you guys are creating racehack
13:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:1832
13:04 <rld> <@luxidream> speedhack
13:04 <hothraxxa> that's a slightly different thing but sure
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13:05 <rld> <@luxidream> it should be easy to get beholder in twitch with irc integration
13:05 <hothraxxa> bhaak: i was joking btw
13:06 <hothraxxa> in case he sees that
13:06 <infinigon> K2: which repo has hardfought's 3.7.0 (with livelog patches etc)?
13:06 <aoei> Tangles mate are you about?
13:08 <rld> <@luxidream> https://github.com/NHTangles/NetHack36/tree/3.7-hdf
13:08 <rld> <@luxidream> infinigon:
13:08 <K2> ^ that
13:08 <aoei> yeah that looks like the right thing
13:08 <aoei> thanks lux/K2
13:08 <infinigon> thanks thanks
13:08 <infinigon> ok, gotta wrap some stuff at Real Work
13:08 <infinigon> then gonna take a look at this later tonight
13:08 <aoei> okey
13:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 501 points, T:816, killed by a giant bat
13:09 <aoei> i'll let you know if i am able to get a version running for testing purposes
13:09 <infinigon> :D
13:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 1869 points, T:2203, slaughtered by a wallaby
13:11 <FIQ> @luxidream why the random paste of what I said? am I missing something?
13:13 <rld> <@luxidream> oh I was about to discuss something about before getting sidetracked
13:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] gturner (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 2770 points, T:2686, killed by a wounded invisible gnome lady, while praying
13:14 <rld> <@luxidream> there are a lot of strategic mistakes in nethack made still, just look at https://alt.org/nethack/wishes.html
13:14 <rld> <@luxidream> granted that hasn't been updated for 3.6, but I imagine it's still similar
13:14 <aoei> idk the top ones look fairly solid
13:15 <aoei> GoP i probably never would wish for
13:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:3821
13:15 <infinigon> "blessed magic marker" is questionable
13:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:3868
13:16 <rld> <@luxidream> that has its uses, infinigon
13:16 <aoei> sometimes you need it if you're tc running or atheist but in general i would just get uncursed
13:16 <hothraxxa> it does but it shouldn't be #2
13:16 <infinigon> the fact that it's 2x more common than uncursed
13:16 <aoei> yeah that is odd
13:16 <infinigon> makes me think that the "blessed" annotation was just applying the heuristic "blessed is best!"
13:17 <rld> <@luxidream> +oID, gops, helm of brilliance
13:17 <aoei> +oID is a convenience wish for some roles
13:17 <aoei> wizard should never wish for it obviously
13:18 <hothraxxa> i have very strong opinions of how to make a wish but i do not intent to divulge my strategies
13:18 <hothraxxa> intend
13:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Bar Orc Fem Cha) reached Minetown, on T:1889
13:18 <aoei> hothraxxa: that's not true
13:18 <aoei> you were expounding htem to me before
13:18 <aoei> use lots of adjectives iirc
13:18 <infinigon> "All original content on this site is copyright (c)2000-2113 M. Drew Streib"
13:18 <aoei> was the take-home message
13:18 <infinigon> hmm
13:18 <aoei> infinigon: that's dtype i think
13:18 <aoei> also lol 2113
13:18 <infinigon> i meant the year
13:18 <aoei> hahahaa
13:19 <rld> <@luxidream> yeah I don't see any funny hothraxxa wishes near the top
13:19 <hothraxxa> oh aoei, do you really think i revealed EVERYTHING?
13:19 <rld> <@luxidream> this page should really be updated for 3.6+
13:19 <aoei> hothraxxa: : o
13:19 <aoei> perhaps not!
13:19 <aoei> i should have known
13:19 <dtype> infinigon: saves me having to change it year to year
13:19 <dtype> also those copyright notices are mildly silly
13:19 <dtype> just declare copyright is plenty
13:20 <aoei> dtype: lol
13:20 <dtype> legally there's little differrence
13:20 <aoei> can you just copyright everyone's wishes tho?
13:20 <aoei> that seems fucked
13:20 <infinigon> haha
13:20 <rld> <@luxidream> This page last updated on Sun Sep 17 14:10:26 2006
13:20 <dtype> i said original content
13:20 <rld> <@luxidream> 😦
13:20 <aoei> ah original meaning
13:21 <aoei> yeah ok i think i got it
13:21 <dtype> also somewhere pretty sure I declare all of the game data to be some kind of copyleft
13:21 <aoei> lol
13:21 <dtype> or at least I meant to
13:21 <dtype> i usually use some light creative commons variant
13:22 <dtype> the attribution only one
13:22 <dtype> the BSD of copyleft
13:22 <aoei> haha scroll to the bottom
13:22 <aoei> "your mom", "your penis", "wand of polhymorph", "want of polymorph"
13:22 <infinigon> ah, yes, it's strategic mistakes all the way down
13:23 <rld> <@luxidream> 4738 1 0.00 my sweetie's happiness
13:23 <{Demo}> "i've lost count of how many games i find a WoW in the Val"
13:24 <{Demo}> "hmm"
13:24 <aoei> awe lux that one is cute
13:25 <rld> <@luxidream> most wholesome one so far
13:25 <rld> <@luxidream> wonder what the story is behind the "omputer Science and Information Technology Division" ones
13:25 <rld> <@luxidream> accidental paste?
13:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:5103
13:25 <aoei> haha
13:25 <aoei> i think this is accidental paste too:
13:25 <hothraxxa> that's easy. typing in the wrong window
13:25 <aoei> our debt. I will grant one wish!"--More-
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13:26 <hothraxxa> that one i will grant must be a paste error
13:26 <aoei> yeah lol
13:26 <aoei> 100%
13:26 <aoei> lol "plane ticket"
13:26 <aoei> but to where??
13:26 <hothraxxa> astral of course
13:26 <rld> <@luxidream> when the djinni gives you a wish but you uno reverse
13:27 <amateurhour> searched for carl to see if there were any classic hothraxxa wishes back then
13:27 <amateurhour> and someone appears to have put an email address in there
13:27 <amateurhour> lol
13:27 <aoei> hahaha
13:27 <aoei> nice
13:28 <rld> <@luxidream> oh I see
13:28 <rld> <@luxidream> you searched for carl
13:28 <hothraxxa> i didn't wish for carl until i switched to playing here
13:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:39692
13:29 <hothraxxa> i'm not sure when i adopted my wishing style but i think it was while i still played on alt.org
13:29 * aoei wishes for hothraxxa's fireproof winged hemp boots of high carl with added THC and long papers
13:30 <hothraxxa> cornflower papers
13:30 <aoei> oh no i forgot to grease them :c
13:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:5852
13:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:3657
13:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +2 dragonhide elven helm of telepathy", on T:39721
13:30 <hothraxxa> i use only vapourizers now anyway
13:31 <aoei> doens't fit nethack very well though
13:31 <aoei> flavour-wise
13:31 <{Demo}> ndnh has gnomes with vapes
13:31 <aoei> maybe dnh or slash'em it works
13:31 <aoei> haha nice {Demo}
13:31 <hothraxxa> i know. the only things that vapourizre are pieces of armour
13:31 <aoei> lol
13:31 <aoei> weapons too i think
13:31 <hothraxxa> oh right. evilhack black dragons
13:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:3747
13:32 <aoei> also overenchantment in vanilla
13:32 <hothraxxa> i guess they disintegrate. nm
13:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +2 dragonhide speed boots", on T:39726
13:32 <aoei> you can vaporise both weapons and armour doing that
13:32 <hothraxxa> sadly true
13:32 * aoei goes to brew another potion of gain energy
13:33 <FIQ> aoei: GoP is a very much valid wish in some cases, I think some of the more veteran players might be undervaluing it
13:33 <FIQ> but that's just my opinion and I'm not a very good player
13:33 <FIQ> but my point is that, high str gives a very substantial damage bonus
13:33 <FIQ> like +6 iirc
13:33 <nabru> I usually wish for GoP if I don't come across gloves
13:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:3840
13:34 <FIQ> which could be very useful for some earlygame players
13:34 <rld> <@luxidream> wishing for dsm early is almost always better
13:34 <FIQ> @luxidream oh yeah, obviously
13:34 <FIQ> but in case you get more
13:35 <rld> <@luxidream> at castle you most likely have 18/01 str, from which gop gives +3 damage
13:35 <rld> <@luxidream> not really worth a wish imo
13:35 <FIQ> I tend to play wiz and have horrible str :P
13:36 <rld> <@luxidream> on some of my practice runs with wow I would wish for gop for the carrying capacity
13:36 <rld> <@luxidream> but I wouldn't consider that normal use
13:37 <FIQ> I've done that too but I think that's just laziness on my part
13:37 <rld> <@luxidream> at least they're better than dex gauntlets, which see wishes sometime too
13:37 <FIQ> not really it being a good wish
13:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a troll, on T:7022
13:37 <FIQ> I wish for GoD in grunthack :P
13:38 <FIQ> mostly because I wish for All The Things property-wise
13:38 <FIQ> gauntlets of dexterity and power
13:39 <hothraxxa> you missed dragonhide
13:39 <hothraxxa> and historic
13:40 <FIQ> @luxidream btw, is SDSM still generally better than GDSM in 3.6? I think nowdays, GDSM is generally better due to the MC nerf to CoMR
13:40 <hothraxxa> and holy diluted unlocked extinguished greased fixed very thoroughly +5
13:41 <aoei> historic dragonhide weed grinder and long-papers pouch of power
13:41 <hothraxxa> dude. you should come round to my place, i have some really nice strains i'd like you to try
13:41 <aoei> sounds great
13:41 <aoei> :>
13:41 -!- VaderFLAG has joined #hardfought
13:41 <tinklebear> tfw no head shop in mine town
13:42 <aoei> hahaha
13:42 <FIQ> hothraxxa: as a grunthack wiz, my kit is typically dragonhide cornuthaum of brilliance, dragonhide T-shirt of displacement, dragonhide cloak of magic resistance and reflection, yellow dragon scale mail of drain resistance, dragonhide gauntlets of dexterity and power, dragonhide boots of water walking and speed
13:42 <hothraxxa> exactly what i'd choose
13:43 <hothraxxa> no wait, i'd want t-shirt of warning
13:43 <rld> <@luxidream> FIQ: MC doesn't matter
13:43 <rld> <@luxidream> for speedrunning I choose GDSM to possibly save a wish, which can be important
13:43 <FIQ> hm
13:43 <rld> <@luxidream> for certain roles with low HP SDSM is better early on
13:43 <FIQ> I wonder why far more people wish for oof compared to EotA and PYEC
13:43 <FIQ> I consider the latter 2 to be far better, especially PYEC in 3.6
13:44 <rld> <@luxidream> oof is a better artifact
13:44 <FIQ> oof is very heavy
13:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 5305 points, T:5489, cut down by a soldier ant
13:44 <hothraxxa> fiq: in grunt you MUST have warning imo, because beholders
13:44 <FIQ> slotless MR is nice
13:44 <FIQ> hothraxxa: oh, I just genocide them
13:44 <rld> <@luxidream> eota is not slotless
13:44 <FIQ> @luxidream was back in 3.4.3
13:44 <rld> <@luxidream> pyec can be stolen, and is of only minor utility
13:44 <FIQ> which I'm far more used to
13:45 <amateurhour> everyone's sleepin on the eyes of the overworld
13:45 <hothraxxa> you can genocide beholders in grunt? i did not know that
13:45 <amateurhour> gives +50% fashion bonus from the purple lenses
13:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] Alex (Kni Hum Fem Law), 196452 points, T:32464, killed by a priestess of Moloch, while paralyzed by a monster
13:45 <FIQ> hothraxxa: and how exactly does warning help?
13:45 <FIQ> they're like level 10
13:45 <FIQ> their warning level is 2, maybe 3
13:45 <FIQ> doesn't stand out
13:45 <amateurhour> so you know they're coming and don't die
13:46 <hothraxxa> if you see a 5 you put on your blindfold until you verify it's not a beholder
13:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed Father Dagon, on T:20879
13:46 <FIQ> and how does a beholder stand out from the countless other warning 2-3 monsters
13:46 <FIQ> 5???
13:46 <FIQ> they're level 10
13:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed Mother Hydra, on T:20882
13:46 <hothraxxa> ok i must be confusing evilhack beholders
13:47 <FIQ> oh sorry I was wrong
13:48 <FIQ> they're not level 10
13:48 <FIQ> they're level 6
13:48 <FIQ> MON("beholder", S_EYE,
13:48 <FIQ> LVL(6, 3, 4, 0, -10), (G_GENO|2),
13:48 <FIQ> A(ATTK(AT_GAZE, AD_SLOW, 0, 0), ATTK(AT_GAZE, AD_SLEE, 2,25),
13:48 <FIQ> ATTK(AT_GAZE, AD_DISN, 0, 0), ATTK(AT_GAZE, AD_STON, 0, 0),
13:48 <FIQ> ATTK(AT_GAZE, AD_CNCL, 2, 4), ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4)),
13:48 <FIQ> most stupid monster in the entire game imo
13:48 <FIQ> I hate it'
13:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Frost Brand bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:7739
13:50 <{Demo}> behold
13:50 <hothraxxa> funny i've played a lot of grunthack and i didn't know you could genocide them. i blame too much evilhack
13:50 <FIQ> they're like
13:50 <FIQ> #1 genocid target
13:50 <FIQ> used to be #3 after getting rid of spitting monsters
13:50 <FIQ> due to their crash bug
13:51 <hothraxxa> they fixed that before i played much grunt
13:51 <FIQ> yeah that is nice
13:52 <Deathsushi> Is it possible to have Beholder share a paritcular stat about monsters here?
13:52 <FIQ> Pinobot used to do that
13:52 <FIQ> but it's no longer here
13:52 <amateurhour> pinobot is kill
13:52 <FIQ> @v?silver dragon
13:53 <FIQ> would give info about the silver D
13:53 <FIQ> but it no longer works
13:53 <amateurhour> beholder would forward it onto pinobot but rip
13:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 16958 points, T:8152, killed by petrification
13:54 <Deathsushi> Yah, butt rip
13:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) polymorphed her first object, on T:39874
13:54 <Deathsushi> What is the best use of a wand of polymorph I find?
13:54 <Deathsushi> Is it polypiling? Hitting a pet?
13:54 <FIQ> to polypile stuff
13:54 <Deathsushi> Something else?
13:54 <Deathsushi> And should I start that striaght up?
13:54 <FIQ> hitting a pet can be fun but it can die
13:54 <Deathsushi> Or wait?
13:55 <FIQ> and is, optimally speaking, a waste of charges
13:55 <nabru> hitting a pet can be hit or miss
13:55 <rld> <@malor> polypiling and/or poly-self if you have poly control. Hitting a pet can't be good expected-value.
13:55 <nabru> it might turn into a dragon or into a gas spore
13:55 <hothraxxa> i agree, using one on a pet is a waste
13:55 <hothraxxa> i rarely poly-self. i polypile a lot
13:55 <FIQ> I mean you could line stuff up so you can both polypile and hit a pet
13:55 <FIQ> I've done that sometimes
13:55 <rld> <@malor> good point FIQ
13:55 <FIQ> but it's kinda luck-based
13:56 <FIQ> most of the time the pet turns into something useless or only marginally better than the regular forms
13:56 <Deathsushi> Okay — how much stuff should I have beforfe I start polypiling?
13:56 <infinigon> polytrap + magic whistle is probably best for getting a decent pet
13:56 <FIQ> last time I did it, I got a queen bee
13:56 <FIQ> that was fun with the poison instadeath
13:56 <Deathsushi> Like, if I find this pre-sokoban, is that a good time to start?
13:56 <FIQ> but it doesn't really work well past earlygame
13:56 <rld> <@luxidream> not enough loot
13:56 <FIQ> when stuff starts being poison resistant
13:56 <Deathsushi> How mcuh loot do I want?
13:57 <hothraxxa> there is no simple answer
13:57 <Deathsushi> Just a heuristic
13:57 <Deathsushi> Something rough so I know not to wait until end game
13:57 <FIQ> ludios can be a good spot if you want armor
13:57 <rld> <@luxidream> since it loses items, I tend to use it if I have an abundance of useless items
13:57 <FIQ> but generally I think rings and amulets are the best targets for polypiling
13:57 <rld> <@luxidream> and not to use it on unidentified items
13:58 <FIQ> you inevitably end up accumulating a bunch of uselesss stuff
13:58 <FIQ> *useless
13:58 <FIQ> that you can turn into more useful stuff
13:58 <rld> <@luxidream> !whereis Deathsushi
13:58 <Beholder> @luxidream: Deathsushi is not playing.
13:58 <FIQ> amulet polypiling can give you several amulets versus YASD
13:58 <infinigon> polypiling is often useless unless you also have some ID on hand
13:58 <hothraxxa> i like to poly scrolls
13:58 <FIQ> which is the top killer for longer games for me
13:58 <hothraxxa> you can almost play markerless
13:58 <infinigon> unless you're late enough in the game where everything's already IDed
13:59 <FIQ> so I basically always wear it
13:59 <rld> <@luxidream> amulet of full healing
13:59 <FIQ> oh yeah, don't polypile if you don't have ID
13:59 <infinigon> if you don't know if what you have is junk or not, and you don't know what you got back out is junk is not
13:59 <infinigon> then what was the point?
13:59 <FIQ> you'll not be able to ID what you get
13:59 <rld> <@luxidream> polypile makes id though
13:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 219 points, T:529, killed by an uninjured werejackal
14:00 <FIQ> @luxidream once I have LS, I basically always win that game
14:00 <FIQ> because I'm not really that bad of a player I think, just very reckless
14:00 <rld> <@luxidream> a bold statement
14:00 <FIQ> and LS cures that well enough
14:00 <rld> <@luxidream> I burn through LS like full healing lol
14:00 <FIQ> if I burn a LS, I consider that as me playing badly
14:00 <hothraxxa> i, otoh, almsot never wear it
14:01 <FIQ> which inevitably ends up with me playing far more carefully
14:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) performed her first genocide (alhoons), on T:39970
14:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) genocided arch-liches, on T:39970
14:01 <FIQ> the exception are variants like grunthack
14:01 <FIQ> where you can just die out of nowhere suddenly
14:01 <FIQ> because of random bs
14:01 <FIQ> like vorpal weapons
14:01 <tinklebear> Deathsushi: polypiling is better when you can mass bless stuff
14:01 <hothraxxa> aye
14:02 <tinklebear> Deathsushi: polypiling is better while you still are lacking a lot of things you want
14:02 <rld> <@luxidream> I do find myself weaker in the end game than most normal games
14:02 <hothraxxa> i've not found that to be
14:02 <hothraxxa> oops
14:02 <hothraxxa> i've not found that to be much incentive to wear it even in grunt
14:02 <hothraxxa> but that's just me
14:02 <rld> <@luxidream> you avoid every vorpal?
14:03 <FIQ> I've died to grunt vorpal twice I think
14:03 <hothraxxa> no i just believe that my chances of winning aren't enahanced much by wearing lifesaving
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14:03 <FIQ> so I'd never not wear LS in it if I can
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14:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed the invisible Center of All, on T:22400
14:04 <rld> <@luxidream> I find it weird that "life saving doesn't matter" is a common sentiment
14:04 <tinklebear> Deathsushi: polypiling is better if you know the enchantments/charges of the polyfodder
14:04 <hothraxxa> i will wear it if i don't have something i'd prefer. in grunt you don't need the amulet slot, so why not i guess
14:04 <rld> <@luxidream> but very few if any would say that full healing doesn't matter
14:04 <hothraxxa> luxi: it matters. just not enough to make much difference to mer
14:04 <FIQ> @luxidream there is valid reasoning for it, but I think the reasoning is far more valid early on than late
14:04 <infinigon> i guess the argument isn't so much "life saving doesn't matter", more that it takes up a valuable slot
14:04 <hothraxxa> yes
14:04 <FIQ> basically, if you have the choice of LS and reflection earlygame, the latter might be better
14:05 <FIQ> to not lose random items to winter wolves and such
14:05 <FIQ> but later on, I think LS is probably always optimal apart from corner cases
14:05 <FIQ> since you can always choose to put in another amulet later if you burn the LS
14:06 <rld> <@luxidream> well, I don't find 2weapon to be valuable, but that's another unpopular opinion 🙂
14:06 <FIQ> why not?
14:06 <FIQ> it greatly boosts damage potential
14:06 <FIQ> which means less damage done to you
14:06 <FIQ> unless you like to be surrounded, where I guess a shield is nice
14:06 <rld> <@luxidream> in order to wear life saving with it you need comr+sdsm, which requires at least one wish
14:07 <rld> <@luxidream> in order to make it more worthwhile you need surplus enchant weapon, which I often don't have
14:07 <FIQ> ..but you do have surplus EA?
14:08 <rld> <@luxidream> and lastly I don't like switching between a pick-axe and a twoweapon setup
14:08 <FIQ> @luxidream incidentally, was enchant armor the reason fh tou was OP previously
14:08 <FIQ> with the guranteed charged marker
14:08 <Deathsushi> Thanks for the answers everyone. It sounds like I want to have at least a bunch of items if I'm going to start polypiling — and it sounds more like a mid to late game thing to do
14:08 <Deathsushi> Eg, Level 10, probably arrived at the castle, etc.
14:08 <rld> <@luxidream> FIQ: yes
14:09 <amateurhour> or you could skip polypiling entirely because it's op as balls and kinda boring
14:09 <rld> <@luxidream> but what does enchant armor have to do with it
14:09 <amateurhour> :D
14:09 <FIQ> doesn't that make vanilla tou OP too
14:09 <FIQ> 20% of the time
14:09 <FIQ> @luxidream "yes it was because of EA, but what does enchant armor have to do with it" ???
14:09 <rld> <@luxidream> I was talking about surplus enchant weapon
14:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) killed the Chromatic Dragon, on T:34731
14:10 <rld> <@luxidream> and then you said enchant armor
14:10 <FIQ> ah
14:10 <rld> <@luxidream> I am confused about what twoweaponing has to do with armor
14:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:34732
14:10 <FIQ> well I assumed you'd have a shield
14:10 <FIQ> instead of 2weapon
14:10 <rld> <@luxidream> the shield doesn't need to be fully enchanted
14:10 <tinklebear> Deathsushi: poly wand is also a potential emergency escape item from certain monsters, if you're otherwise unprepared to handle them
14:10 <FIQ> what is 1-2 extra AC going to do if your AC is at -20ish anyway
14:11 <rld> <@luxidream> allows me to wear life saving with gdsm
14:11 <rld> <@luxidream> also only 4% of tourists get a marker
14:11 <FIQ> tinklebear: aren't the vast majority of monsters you'd want to get rid of quickly also highly magic resistant
14:11 <FIQ> the only exception being minotaurs that I can think of
14:11 <rld> <@luxidream> olog-hai
14:11 <FIQ> @luxidream huh I thought it was 20%
14:12 <FIQ> but ok
14:12 <tinklebear> FIQ: some, but not all. not air E. not energy vortex (quite difficult if you lack ranged attack)
14:12 <FIQ> can't you just throw your melee weapon at it
14:12 <rld> <@luxidream> I'd rather deal with an energy vortex than whatever comes out of that poly wand
14:12 <FIQ> and then pick it up and do it again
14:12 <tinklebear> FIQ: will that kill it before it kills you? maybe. maybe not.
14:13 <rld> <@luxidream> energy vortices deal very little damage
14:13 <rld> <@luxidream> unless you melee them
14:13 <FIQ> aren't energy vortices only dangerous because of their passive dmg
14:13 <tinklebear> sometimes you don't have the HP you'd like to have
14:14 <FIQ> at least they no longer drain all your pw and max pw
14:14 <FIQ> that was fun
14:14 <FIQ> in 3.6.0
14:14 <FIQ> tinklebear: but isn't their active damage really low?
14:15 <rld> <@luxidream> 1d6 shock
14:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +2 mithril shield of reflection", on T:40682
14:15 <FIQ> so yeah
14:15 <FIQ> low
14:15 <FIQ> well ok it's not insignificant
14:15 <FIQ> but manageable
14:16 <FIQ> it's the 0d4 passive that is truly dangerous
14:16 <FIQ> which is why you don't want to melee them
14:17 <tinklebear> they are fast, so you may not be able to avoid them, and if your ranged attack is lame, they might kill you.
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14:18 <tinklebear> but you are certainly correct that melee hits are a bad idea
14:18 <FIQ> why do you need ranged attacks
14:18 <FIQ> if you're engulfed, it's not like you're going to miss with your thrown melee weapon
14:18 <tinklebear> and how much damage does that do?
14:19 <rld> <@luxidream> However much your melee attack does
14:19 <FIQ> iirc the same as whacking it with a melee attack
14:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed Axus, on T:24498
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14:21 <FIQ> YASI: spellbook of guiding light, makes a yellow light that will route to the furthest staircase from your location
14:22 * tinklebear would like to point out that throw-pickup-throw does only half the rate of damage as your melee strikes do
14:22 <FIQ> in exchange for not dying in like 3 hits from the vortex
14:22 <FIQ> I'd take the trade
14:23 <tinklebear> FIQ: nobody ever suggested striking them hand-to-hand
14:23 <rld> <@luxidream> better than polymorphing it
14:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed Oona, on T:24998
14:25 <tinklebear> @luxidream: emergencies occur.
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14:26 <tinklebear> @luxidream and FIQ: you say true things. but you're fixating on one example, under ideal circumstances. and emergencies are not ideal.
14:26 <FIQ> @luxidream polymorph is very unlikely to not be useful since a polymorphed creature's HP is set to 1 if polymorphed into a non-engulfing monster. However, it's still a waste of a charge if you're doing it with a wand
14:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Bar Orc Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:3950
14:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:25198
14:27 <rld> <@luxidream> see, I didn't know that 🙂
14:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] zoya (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Croesus, on T:29872
14:28 <FIQ> there's even a dudley's dungeon strip about this iirc
14:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:25277
14:28 <rld> <@luxidream> tinklebear, I think we were discussing low-MR monsters that are a normal target for polymorph
14:28 <rld> <@luxidream> in non-emergencies
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14:28 <FIQ> probably made by someone who encountered it in-game
14:28 <rld> <@luxidream> seeing a minotaur at poor AC, you probably zap polymorph at it
14:29 <FIQ> just watch the rng throw a purple L at you instead :P
14:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Arc Hum Mal Law), 387 points, T:1449, killed by a wounded gnome mummy
14:29 <tinklebear> 14:10 <tinklebear> Deathsushi: poly wand is also a potential emergency escape item from certain monsters, if you're otherwise unprepared to handle them
14:30 <tinklebear> ^ emergeny
14:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 2 points, T:39, killed by a nearly deceased sewer rat
14:30 <rld> <@luxidream> then you could argue that for any number of monsters, not just one that deals 1d6 shock damage
14:31 <rld> <@luxidream> I just don't think it is the best example
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14:31 <tinklebear> that's why I said 'certain' monsters. and when pressed, included air E.
14:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 400 points, T:1397, killed by a coyote
14:32 <tinklebear> energy vortex came to mind because I was caught by one in no-tele level at low hp with shit melee weap and no ranged attack, recently. and poly wand saved my ass.
14:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:41342
14:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) was crowned "The Hand of Elbereth" by Anu, on T:35352
14:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 276 points, T:1222, killed by a wounded giant mimic
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14:43 <rld> <@Joanna> Tbf a lot of what lux is saying is optimised for fast low resource games
14:43 <rld> <@Joanna> Normal games are usually stacked enough not to need aols or full heals on astral
14:44 <rld> <@Joanna> Wishes are tighter because you gotta write more scrolls thus wish for markers
14:45 <aoei> twoweapon is a pretty reasonable play for a normal game i think
14:46 <aoei> altho if you have a polykit you can just increase your damage output with mmf or elvenmonach
14:46 <aoei> elvenmonarch*
14:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1333
14:46 <aoei> elvenmonarch lets you twoweapon your main lol
14:46 <aoei> it's stacked af
14:46 <aoei> you can dual-wield +6 excal or grays effectively
14:47 <aoei> it's kinda broken it's super cool
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14:48 <aoei> the only downside is elves can't use it
14:48 <aoei> if your base race is elf it's not allowed
14:49 <aoei> and then what are you gonna do be a dwarf noble instead? they kinda suck i think because of the low speed
14:49 <aoei> i think elf just uses mmf
14:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) wished for "cursed fixed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:27774
14:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed the invisible Grue, on T:28500
14:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:5098
15:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:5211
15:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:39074
15:01 * tinklebear re-reads backscroll
15:02 <tinklebear> god I'm bad at distinguishing corner cases from canonical ones
15:02 <tinklebear> lux and FIQ were totally on point.
15:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) wished for "cursed fixed greased +2 godhands", on T:29101
15:03 <aoei> tinklebear: what were they on point about?
15:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Arc Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Investigator, on T:3817
15:04 <tinklebear> that when I characterised energy vortices as "quite difficult if you lack ranged attack", i was overstating the case
15:04 <aoei> ah yeah
15:04 <aoei> they don't haev a lot of bite really
15:04 <aoei> tho they can destroy your rings in certain very anoying situations
15:04 <aoei> fortunately this only happens after they spit you out and doesn't happen often
15:05 <aoei> btw, incase you weren't already aware, you can also zap teleportation at the monster you're engulfed by, if you're on a no-tele level they port but you don't
15:05 <aoei> on tele-allowed levels you both port
15:05 <aoei> so it doesn't help
15:06 <tinklebear> hey, what happens if you zap create monster while engulfed?
15:07 <aoei> hm
15:07 <aoei> i don't know
15:07 <aoei> tinklebear: quickly! to the wiztestmobile
15:07 <aoei> !
15:07 <tinklebear> lol
15:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Arc Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:4225
15:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Arc Hum Mal Law) entered a shop, on T:4273
15:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2188 points, T:4283, killed by a wounded giant mimic
15:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:39336
15:11 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.]
15:11 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought
15:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:29638
15:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) killed Baalzebub, on T:42308
15:13 <FIQ> I assume the monster would be created outside the vortex or whatever is engulfing you
15:13 <FIQ> anything else would be silly
15:14 <tinklebear> makes sense
15:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) destroyed davez's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:6517
15:17 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
15:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) endured an absurd aquatic ceremony, and now wields Excalibur, on T:3890
15:27 <aoei> fred is wise
15:29 -!- spleen has joined #hardfought
15:29 -!- VaderFLAG has joined #hardfought
15:31 -!- spicycebolla has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
15:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:7839
15:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed Daemon, on T:32339
15:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a silver dragon, on T:5350
15:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 258 points, T:1058, killed by a giant spider
15:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:33040
15:39 <tinklebear> engulfed by lurker above, zap create monster (no message), put on slow digestion to get expelled, and oh look there's an orc-captain that wasn't there before
15:40 <aoei> i told ya
15:40 <aoei> fred is wise
15:41 <tinklebear> the light of truth
15:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:33270
15:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:33288
15:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) destroyed bouquet's ghost, the former Lookout, on T:9414
15:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:34408
15:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) had Werebane bestowed upon him by Anu, on T:36274
15:49 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought
15:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) destroyed Pestilence, on T:34552
15:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha) destroyed Famine, on T:34622
15:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 22272 points, T:9479, cut down by a crocodile, while praying
15:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Vam Fem Cha), 7145074 points, T:34651, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/dnethack/dumplog/1611677302.dnh.txt
15:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] tsingi (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 715 points, T:1888, killed by an uninjured jackal
15:52 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse
15:56 -!- jonadab has joined #hardfought
15:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v jonadab] by ChanServ
15:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:7199
16:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon her by Quetzalcoatl, on T:43929
16:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) made his first wish - "uncursed magic marker", on T:37199
16:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) performed his first genocide (master liches), on T:37199
16:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) entered Gehennom, on T:37305
16:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 18869 points, T:9433, killed by an owlbear
16:20 -!- spicycebolla has joined #hardfought
16:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Roamer, on T:38437
16:26 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought
16:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:38722
16:31 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
16:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Nomad, on T:38756
16:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] kalik (Arc Clk Mal Neu), 206 points, T:88, killed by a gnome
16:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Rog Elf Fem Cha), 790 points, T:1894, killed by a bolt of lightning
16:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:9289
16:41 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] AlbertB (Arc Hum Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:3735
16:44 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] AlbertB (Arc Hum Fem Neu) attained the rank of Investigator, on T:3877
16:45 <aoei> @luxidream time?
16:45 <aoei> also gg
16:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 248 points, T:1014, killed by Ms. Kalecik, the shopkeeper
16:52 <rld> <@luxidream> 1:28
16:52 <rld> <@luxidream> no pick until sanctum so 🤷
16:53 <aoei> boo
16:53 <aoei> i have a 1:12 medusa kill
16:53 <aoei> trash rings and no early wish
16:53 <aoei> but a decent number of scrolls and some holy water
16:53 <aoei> so its not terrible
16:53 <aoei> also i genocided L already
16:53 <aoei> which is nice
16:53 <aoei> so no purpL at castle
16:54 <aoei> guaranteed
16:54 <aoei> @luxidream perseus only had a scimitar ._.
16:54 <aoei> i have a sack and "oR already tho
16:54 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] AlbertB (Arc Hum Fem Neu), 2126 points, T:4338, killed by a heavily wounded Woodland-elf
16:54 <aoei> plus i have a frost horn so castle should be easy
16:55 <spicycebolla> bad percy
16:55 <Umbire> Hihi folks
16:55 <aoei> i can just E Elbereth with lightning
16:55 <aoei> do the drawbridge smashy thing
16:55 <Umbire> ...haven't seen Neko in a bit :c
16:55 <aoei> should be fine
16:55 <aoei> eh she's probs fine. or was it they. i forgot
16:56 <Umbire> GG on latest ascend btw, Luxi
16:56 <aoei> @lux ok i have levi and tonal
16:56 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
16:56 <aoei> backdoor or drawbridge
16:56 <aoei> it's 3.6.6.
16:56 <aoei> so i can make them all fall in the holes
16:56 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
16:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Rog Vam Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1569
16:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1178 points, T:2554, killed by a giant beetle
16:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 743 points, T:1566, dispatched by a pony
16:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 327 points, T:1402, killed by a bear trap
17:00 <aoei> dammit
17:00 <aoei> lux is already doing another valkgdq
17:00 <aoei> so will probably not respond to my question until he has ascended
17:00 <aoei> i'll probably go with tonal entry
17:01 <aoei> i could also stop playing i guess
17:01 <aoei> alcohol is a kps depressant unfortunately
17:02 <Deathsushi> Huge enhancement to your Rads per Minute though
17:02 <aoei> Rads per Minute?
17:03 <Deathsushi> Yah
17:03 <Deathsushi> Get those radicals up there
17:03 <aoei> wossat
17:03 <aoei> wow man
17:03 <aoei> that's like
17:03 <aoei> so radical
17:03 <Deathsushi> It's the radiclest
17:03 <aoei> ;o
17:03 <aoei> okey someone pick me a movie plox
17:04 <aoei> maybe i should rewatch starship troopers
17:04 <aoei> that movie is nuts
17:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 227 points, T:1165, killed by a wounded cave spider
17:07 <tinklebear> have you read the novel too, aoei?
17:07 <aoei> no unfortunatley i have not
17:07 <aoei> i will add it to my list
17:09 <Umbire> The movie and novel are v. much different experiences
17:09 <tinklebear> Umbire: true!
17:09 <aoei> umby have you seen galaxy quest
17:09 <aoei> that movie is also bonkers
17:10 <hothraxxa> galaxy quest is one of my favourite movies
17:10 <aoei> it's pretty wild hothraxxa :D
17:10 <aoei> it might even be better with some choice herbs
17:11 <hothraxxa> the fifth element
17:11 <hothraxxa> princess bride
17:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) averted death (drowned in a moat by a couatl), on T:40627
17:11 <aoei> fifth element is quality
17:11 <aoei> i dont think ive actually seen princess bride
17:11 <Umbire> I have not
17:12 <aoei> ok
17:12 <aoei> add it to ur list
17:12 <aoei> you can thank me later
17:12 <hothraxxa> you must. it's one of the best movies ever
17:12 <aoei> hothraxxa: are you talkin to umby about galaxy quest now, or to me about princess bride?
17:12 <hothraxxa> princess bride, but galaxy quest is also excellent
17:13 <aoei> okey
17:13 <aoei> my sister gave me this netflix login thingy
17:13 <aoei> maybe they have it?
17:13 <hothraxxa> i don't use netflix but those are both classics so i'd say there's a good chance
17:14 <hothraxxa> i know galaxy quest is on amazon prime here, not sure about princess bride
17:14 <aoei> doesnt look like it but i have a few other scrounged logins i can try
17:14 <aoei> let's see..
17:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2124
17:14 <aosdict> don't describe cult classic movies as "the best ever", you set people up for disappointment that way
17:15 <hothraxxa> yes except princess bride really is the best ever
17:15 <aoei> aosdict has a point maybe
17:15 <aoei> oic
17:15 <aoei> idk, people hyped rhps like crazy
17:15 <aoei> i was *not* disappointed
17:15 <aoei> it was all kinds of nuts and more
17:16 <hothraxxa> sure. look, everyone should realize that all ratings are subjective,
17:16 <aoei> rhps is something of a special case even among cult classics tho
17:16 <aoei> lets be honest
17:16 <hothraxxa> indeed it is
17:17 <hothraxxa> audience participation
17:17 <aoei> buh
17:17 <aoei> neither netflix, nowtv nor disneyplus have galaxy quest
17:17 <aoei> wahts even the point in having these logins i ask u
17:17 <hothraxxa> probably because amazon prime has it
17:17 <aoei> boooo
17:18 <tinklebear> without rocky horror I don't think I'd ever grok what people see in musicals
17:18 <hothraxxa> or did the last time i looked
17:18 <aoei> yeah i think only amazon prime has princess bride, too
17:18 <aoei> so that sucks
17:18 <aoei> because that's one of the ones i do not have a sister sourced login for
17:18 <aoei> idk tinklebear im not that into them either but i did also enjoy rent
17:19 <tinklebear> it has a good title for sure, aoei
17:19 <aoei> wow that's erm
17:19 <aoei> that's a very strong endorsement XD
17:19 -!- star_cloud has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:19 <hothraxxa> hair
17:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) destroyed quervo1's ghost, the former Investigator, on T:2859
17:19 <tinklebear> lol, hothraxxa
17:19 <aoei> "title was ok"
17:19 <aoei> "everything else was SHIT"
17:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:1408
17:20 <hothraxxa> hair is great if you just see it it as a series of loosely related decent songs. the plot, not so much
17:20 <hothraxxa> also, naked people
17:20 <aoei> naked peope huh
17:20 <aoei> sounds good to me 👀
17:21 <hothraxxa> it was the 60s
17:21 -!- star_cloud has joined #hardfought
17:21 <tinklebear> rent was cheap then. so hair it was.
17:22 <aoei> i wish rent was cheap today
17:22 * tinklebear nods emphatically
17:22 <aoei> at least it's cheaper here than where im from
17:22 <tinklebear> same here!
17:22 <aoei> Hamburg is expensive by german standards
17:22 <aoei> but it makes the south of england look even more insane by comparison
17:22 <aoei> altho it is actually just pretty insane
17:24 <aoei> tinklebear: my mum rents a council house in south england right
17:24 <aoei> it would cost half a million quids to buy it
17:24 <aoei> it is not a fancy house
17:24 <hothraxxa> hm. hamburg is 11% cheaper than toronto for rent
17:24 <aoei> 3 bedroom narrowish terraced job with a small kitchen
17:25 <aoei> two floors
17:25 <aoei> half a million quids if u please
17:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] davez (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 1472 points, T:2102, struck down by a hill orc
17:25 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
17:25 <hothraxxa> no wait. hamburg is 27% cheaper based on rent alone
17:25 <aoei> wow
17:26 <aoei> check cambridge, uk lol
17:26 <hothraxxa> yeah toronto is really REALLY nuts
17:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] vhorthor (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:4207
17:26 <aoei> cambridge is the half a million quids for a relatively normal house
17:26 <aoei> it's also nuts
17:26 <bouquet> anyone else really hate monkeytown? I think I'd rather have orctown.
17:27 <aoei> bouquet: well the monkeys steal my stuff and are really annoying to kill
17:27 <aoei> so yeah
17:27 <aoei> it drives me nuts
17:27 <aoei> plus teh shops are crap
17:27 <bouquet> it drives me "bananas"
17:27 <aoei> weeeeeey
17:27 <aoei> ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
17:27 <aoei> rimshot
17:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] vhorthor (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1647 points, T:4344, killed by an uninjured soldier ant
17:29 <hothraxxa> so rent where i live is 12.5% lower than hamburg
17:29 <aoei> oh nice
17:29 <Umbire> Go team a!
17:29 -!- star_cloud has quit [Excess Flood]
17:29 <aoei> hothraxxa: did you compare cambridge uk
17:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a mithril runed dagger on an altar, on T:4610
17:30 <hothraxxa> i didn't but you can: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/
17:30 <bouquet> omg a coaligned altar! I didn't think such a thing existed in evilhack
17:30 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:30 <hothraxxa> one of those rabbithole sites
17:30 <hothraxxa> bouquet: you're going to die
17:30 <aoei> hothraxxa: i wanna see how it compares to toronto and to your place lol
17:31 <hothraxxa> i live in barrie ontario
17:31 <hothraxxa> aboit 100 km north of toronto
17:32 <aoei> ok rent apparently is still cheaper in cambridge
17:32 <hothraxxa> i have 27% lower rent than cambridge
17:32 <aoei> than toronto
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17:32 <hothraxxa> toronto is one of the worst anywhere i think
17:32 <aoei> but purchasing power is lower
17:32 <aoei> in cambridge
17:32 <hothraxxa> yes
17:32 <aoei> than in toronto
17:33 <amateurhour> toronto's house prices are in a bubble though aren't they, from foreign investors or something?
17:33 <amateurhour> maybe I'm mixing up cities
17:33 <aoei> rent in cambridge is 20% higher than hamburg
17:33 <aoei> amateurhour: if so its the same problem as much of south england then lol
17:33 <hothraxxa> amateurhour: they are indeed
17:35 <aoei> purchasing power back home is also 10% lower than what i have here
17:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) destroyed AlbertB's ghost, the former Investigator, on T:10570
17:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had a steel dagger entrusted to her by Thoth, on T:5315
17:42 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) made her first wish - "cursed +2 Dragonbane", on T:46580
17:43 <Umbire> was about to ask "why cursed" then saw Inf
17:44 <aoei> oh yeah how does that work actually
17:44 <aoei> cursed stuff if you're infidel is good
17:44 <aoei> how/why
17:44 <aoei> what
17:44 <aoei> lol
17:44 <aoei> i mean i know you're on moloch's side so it kinda makes sense
17:44 <aoei> but i dont remember how it actually works
17:44 <aoei> i think cursed stuff doesnt stick to you possibly
17:44 <aoei> but maybe that's more to it
17:45 <Umbire> from what I vaguely recall it functions to how blessed stuff would for anyone else
17:46 <Deathsushi> I have SDSM — is cloak of protection or cloak of MR more valuable?
17:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 8678 points, T:7331, killed by a fire ant
17:46 <amateurhour> do you have MR?
17:46 <Umbire> Go team a!
17:46 <Deathsushi> Not beyond the cloak, that I'm aware of
17:46 <Deathsushi> Boo ants boo
17:46 <amateurhour> then the cloak if you don't have any other source
17:46 <Umbire> if you don't have MR that should be the priority
17:47 <Deathsushi> Got it. What other sources are there?
17:47 <Deathsushi> That are commonly used?
17:47 <Umbire> quest artys
17:47 <Umbire> artis*
17:47 <hothraxxa> gdsm
17:47 <Deathsushi> Got it
17:47 <Umbire> ^
17:47 <Deathsushi> Thank you!
17:47 <Umbire> but they have silver
17:47 <Umbire> so they need something to complement that and idk if splice like
17:47 <hothraxxa> yes and i've often switched
17:47 <Umbire> adds new MR sources or what
17:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 4294 points, T:5610, zombified by an elf zombie, while sleeping
17:47 <bouquet> fuckin' zombies, man...
17:48 <hothraxxa> right now, mr is the obvious thing to use
17:48 <hothraxxa> Deathsushi: the real difference is mc. the cloak of protection saves you against more special attacks. it also gives a bit more ac. neither matters as much as having mr
17:49 <Umbire> well I also dunno if Sushi has other sources of reflection to pull off switching like that
17:49 <hothraxxa> i'm not recommending it. i'm saying i have often switched
17:49 <Deathsushi> I have SDSM
17:49 <Umbire> o
17:50 <Deathsushi> So I'm thinking MR is most important
17:50 <Umbire> then yeah def. cloak of MR
17:50 <Deathsushi> Cool thank you
17:50 <hothraxxa> in fact if i'm a wizard i won't switch because an advance wizard has two other sources of mr
17:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Woman-at-arms, on T:11041
17:51 <Umbire> such as o: ?
17:52 <aoei> well you often haev Magicbane
17:52 <aoei> right
17:52 <hothraxxa> at least the cloak and magicbane, and after the quest, the eye, which is good to wear so you want the sdsm anyway
17:52 <aoei> plus the Eye works as MR if you put it on
17:52 <Umbire> oh 6_9
17:52 <Umbire> I'm thinking you meant something else entirely
17:52 <Umbire> nethack brain not fully on rn
17:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Woman-at-arms, on T:12182
17:53 <Umbire> ah you're a valk!
17:54 <Umbire> then yeah cloak ez
17:54 <Umbire> assuming you're committed to two-weaponing?
17:54 <Umbire> (or just don't feel like lugging around that heavy silver shield)
17:55 <hothraxxa> that heavy POLISHED silver shield
17:55 <Umbire> thank you :B
17:55 <hothraxxa> your silver shield tarnishes, you feel less reflective
17:56 <hothraxxa> (you have to apply your towel)
17:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Orcranger (Val Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:12354
17:57 <Deathsushi> That I am
17:58 <Deathsushi> I don't actually know how I even two-weapon
17:58 <Deathsushi> But check this out — in mine's end, there are two gray stones piled on top of each other, in the corner of the closet I find them in
17:58 <Deathsushi> What the heck do I do about that?!
17:59 <Deathsushi> Ah — answer, kick them anyway and leave them alone
17:59 <hothraxxa> why aren't you an orc ranger?
17:59 <bouquet> can you get behind them and kick?
17:59 <Umbire> ^
17:59 <Deathsushi> No
17:59 <Deathsushi> They're in the corner of the closet, and I can't dig through the walls
17:59 <Umbire> more importantly do they stack?
17:59 <Deathsushi> Buit I got a thump on kick, so I assume they're lodestones
17:59 <hothraxxa> catacombs then. you already have the luckstone don't you?
17:59 <Deathsushi> Yeah, two, stacked — hence, lodstones
17:59 <Umbire> If they're in the corner then it'll thump regardless
18:00 <Deathsushi> Oh
18:00 <bouquet> sounds like flint
18:00 <Umbire> I think I mentioned that before specifically for scenarios like these
18:00 <bouquet> I've never seen lodestones stacked.
18:00 <Umbire> and yeah it sounds like flint
18:00 <Umbire> though they can also be touchstones
18:00 <hothraxxa> i find touchstones often show up in pairs but that's easily tested
18:00 <Umbire> not nearly as likely though
18:00 <Umbire> wait, catacombs maze right?
18:01 <Umbire> @Deathsushi and hothraxxa
18:01 <hothraxxa> i assume so
18:02 <Deathsushi> Yes
18:02 <Deathsushi> That's right
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18:02 <hothraxxa> well you don't have the luckstone yet or beholder would have said so
18:03 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] Glord (Sam Hum Mal Law), 170286 points, T:20733, choked on a tin of spinach
18:03 <aoei> @luxidream grats & time?
18:03 <rld> <@910rd> second time 😛
18:03 <Deathsushi> Right, and it looks like there are no lodestones generated on this level, based on the wiki
18:03 * Umbire thwacks Glord with a newspaper
18:03 <Deathsushi> So let's take the chance
18:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Deathsushi (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:12745
18:03 <Umbire> :D!
18:03 <Deathsushi> K, there we go
18:04 <aoei> lmao 910rd
18:04 <Umbire> you got levelported after I assume?
18:04 -!- spleen has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
18:04 <hothraxxa> no he has mr remember
18:04 <Deathsushi> That's right — stayed put
18:04 <Umbire> Oh 6_9
18:05 <Umbire> Didn't see a prompt for a wish
18:05 <hothraxxa> whut?
18:05 <Umbire> Guessing it was a choice between stuff you'd found
18:05 <Umbire> I was presuming this was a wish deal
18:05 <hothraxxa> ah
18:05 <Deathsushi> Nono, I have both cloaks
18:05 <Deathsushi> Wasn't sure which to wear over top of the SDSM, which I'd wished for earlier
18:06 <hothraxxa> you really want mr in the lower mines
18:06 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought
18:07 <Deathsushi> All those traps
18:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:11989
18:07 <Umbire> Yeah I realized you already had both cloaks
18:07 <Umbire> *now* anyway
18:08 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] Glord (Sam Hum Mal Law), 53 points, T:434, killed by an uninjured jackal
18:19 -!- attie has quit [Quit: gone afk]
18:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] efw (Tou Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Karnac's ghost, the former Acolyte, on T:3040
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18:31 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] Glord (Sam Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1577
18:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] efw (Tou Hum Mal Neu) destroyed post163's ghost, the former Evoker, on T:3310
18:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:5636
18:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) attained the rank of Student of Stones, on T:5697
18:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor6 (Con Swn Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:7418
18:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [4k] Owen (owen) (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 6723 points, T:1985, killed by a hill orc
18:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming an orc mummy, on T:8220
19:06 <infinigon> the setseed implementation in nethack4 is pretty elaborate
19:06 <infinigon> there's 110 separate RNGs
19:06 <infinigon> it seems very portable to be a patch on top of vanilla, if necessary
19:06 <infinigon> but it does change the save file format
19:06 <infinigon> idk how much of a dealbreaker that is
19:07 <infinigon> also, if i undrestand correctly, the way livelog works is that all the livelog messages get written out to a single server-wide file
19:08 <infinigon> that's... undesirable for speedruns I think? we probably want one file per player
19:08 <infinigon> there's another mechanism which powers !whereis
19:08 <infinigon> which actually sends a signal to nethack to force it to write out a file
19:08 <infinigon> but that also doesn't seem quite right
19:09 <amateurhour> I could be remembering wrong but I don't think the problem is setting initial seed
19:09 <amateurhour> but that the dungeon doesn't generate at the start, it generates levels when you enter
19:09 <infinigon> yeah, that's why there are so many separate RNGs
19:09 <infinigon> you can't advance the RNG for dlvl2 when you're still on dlvl1
19:09 <infinigon> otherwise dlvl2 will generate differnetly
19:11 <infinigon> no matter what we do, I think we'll need K2 & Tangles to help us shuttle data out of the NetHack game, and into some display that's running on luxidream's computer
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19:12 <infinigon> it seems pretty easy to get nethack to write the data down into a file, then we want something like a tail -f of that file out of hdf
19:12 <K2> what?
19:12 <infinigon> brainstorming ideas to have an inventory/progress display for speedrun races on hdf :)
19:13 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
19:14 <K2> its called a ttyrec
19:14 <K2> which is made on the fly
19:14 <K2> whoever is doing the twitch stream can have however many instances of dgl open, one of those can be watching whatever game is being played
19:15 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] Glord (Sam Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:5609
19:15 <infinigon> yeah, we were doing that for the stream yesterday
19:16 <K2> plus all ttyrecs are publically accessible
19:16 <infinigon> it was just hard to keep track of what everyone's inventories were
19:16 <K2> if you ask whoever is speedrunning to play in curses mode and toggle perm_invent on
19:16 <K2> boom, done
19:17 <Beholder> [hdf-eu] [nh370] Glord (Sam Hum Mal Law), 10986 points, T:5611, quit
19:17 <hothraxxa> the twitch display can't handle two games with perm_inven
19:17 <infinigon> yeah, think we should try that
19:17 <infinigon> i think the perfect setup would be something outside the game tho
19:17 <hothraxxa> i mean it can display it but they will be terribly hard to see
19:17 <infinigon> an analogue to what alttp rando has, like this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/f-LtCSMU_Gc/maxresdefault.jpg
19:18 <infinigon> it's also useful to know things like "medusa dead?" "quest done?" etc, though those are lower prio than inv
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19:18 <K2> whoever is doing the commentating can keep track of that
19:18 <hothraxxa> no
19:19 <K2> plus livelogging tracks most major events
19:19 <hothraxxa> you can try
19:19 <K2> hothraxxa yes
19:19 <infinigon> haha, not if you have the world number 2 and 3 speedrunners racing
19:19 <K2> if they dont that's just being lazy :)
19:19 <hothraxxa> ok i look forward to your hosting the next race
19:19 <K2> me? hah no
19:19 <K2> not my thing
19:20 <hothraxxa> weill i think luxi did a superb job and he had trouble with that
19:20 <K2> he'll get better the more he does it
19:20 <hothraxxa> true
19:20 <K2> plus he's perfect to do it, i think time moves slower for him
19:20 <K2> he's like hammy from 'over the hedge'
19:21 <hothraxxa> been watching movies with mini-me again i see
19:21 <K2> always
19:21 <K2> hell, i'd watch that movie by myself. its funny
19:21 <hothraxxa> i have watched it
19:22 <infinigon> alright, let's say we had setseed
19:22 <infinigon> how do we make that work for races?
19:22 <K2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-eMdMsMgCU
19:22 <infinigon> do we have a queue of seeds that each player draws from?
19:22 <infinigon> do they just get one shot at a single seed, and if they die, they have to wait until the other player dies/wins?
19:24 <rld> <@luxidream> queue of seeds sounds good
19:24 <hothraxxa> when does the seed kick in? would a seed generate the same stats and inventory?
19:24 <infinigon> it would be fun to be able to be commentating the same seed for both players
19:25 <rld> <@luxidream> it's possible for one player to lose very early due to poison instadeath or something beyond their control
19:25 <rld> <@luxidream> this should not end the race
19:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] efw (Tou Hum Mal Neu) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a giant beetle corpse, on T:3936
19:25 <K2> all this crazy talk of seeds. what if the player plants their seed? will it grow?
19:25 <infinigon> hmm, i think nethack4's implementation is such that if one player gets poison instadeath, the other player's poison would also trigger instadeath
19:26 <infinigon> would have to check tho. it certainly feels like that's the intent
19:26 <infinigon> behind the implementation
19:27 <rld> <@luxidream> hothraxxa: I think seeds would have same dungeon
19:27 <rld> <@luxidream> floor items and layout
19:27 <rld> <@luxidream> can't control for death drops and monster generation
19:28 <hothraxxa> yes that's my understanding, but i think the players would generate with different stats and inventory
19:28 <hothraxxa> but what do i know
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19:29 <rld> <@luxidream> I'm OK with players being able to do some light startscumming for good constitution
19:29 <rld> <@luxidream> having <15 con is significantly worse for speedruns
19:29 <infinigon> then what's the point of setseed :(
19:30 <infinigon> I think the thing I want is to avoid 3x orctown on one side and not the other
19:30 <rld> <@luxidream> if you get 13 str 14 con valk that's not fun
19:30 <infinigon> I guess both players would choose to reroll such a valk
19:30 <infinigon> so maybe it's not a problem
19:30 <infinigon> idk, anyway
19:30 <infinigon> i have tomorrow off, going to try to get setseed+vanilla working
19:31 <rld> <@luxidream> bhaak: does setseed in un guarantee the same stats?
19:31 <hothraxxa> might look for a way to create identical heros
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19:42 <luxidream2> infinigon: for displaying inventory I don't know if there is enough room on the overlay for that either
19:43 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought
19:43 <luxidream2> nethack has more items than lttp obviously
19:43 <luxidream2> so maybe we could link to another page using a bot command where players can view inventory in real time
19:43 <luxidream2> if we can figure that out of course
19:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Bar Hum Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:6613
19:51 <infinigon> hmh
19:51 <infinigon> doable
19:52 <K2> you should include bhaak in this discussion
19:54 <Umbire> hi back what I miss
19:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Pri Hum Fem Cha), 265 points, T:945, killed by a gnome
20:05 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:06 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought
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20:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] efw (Tou Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a lichen, on T:5146
20:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Pri Elf Mal Neu), 1557 points, T:2739, killed by a giant bat, while praying
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20:32 <aosdict> seeded runs patch sounds cool
20:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:14507
20:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Pri Elf Fem Neu), 1837 points, T:2421, killed by a dwarf king
20:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] gturner (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1263 points, T:1751, killed by a boulder
20:50 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit []
20:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:15799
21:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed rustproof +2 helm of brilliance", on T:9771
21:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] winny (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Ashikaga Takauji, on T:33716
21:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] winny (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:33717
21:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:12109
21:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:12546
21:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:13470
21:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 514 points, T:2925, died of starvation
21:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] efw (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:7386
21:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:3565
21:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Initiate, on T:3670
21:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a spherical amulet on an altar, on T:3783
21:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:15846
21:43 <spicycebolla> hothraxxa: you can crop nethack windows, so
21:44 -!- Pinkbeas1 has joined #hardfought
21:45 <spicycebolla> if you have FOUR dgl windows spectating. and if both players have perminvent. and you crop the inventory out of 2 screens, and crop the game out of the other two, you can toggle between those screens, or even leave 'em partially occluded
21:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] otc (Che Ang Mal Law), 2884 points, T:2078, choked on a taco
21:46 -!- arahael1 has joined #hardfought
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21:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:16983
21:49 <Deathsushi> Is there any reason to cart around dragon scales if I already have SDSM?
21:49 <Deathsushi> Like, orange dragon scales, for example
21:50 <Andrio> To show off?
21:51 <Umbire> Once you have a set of DSM you usually don't need any more scales unless you wanna do a bit and like
21:51 <Umbire> collect one of each color for exampkle
21:51 <Umbire> example*
21:51 <Umbire> notable exception is making DSM for humanoid pets
21:52 <Umbire> like say, a mind flayer pet you'd consider giving yellow DSM
21:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 3761 points, T:6662, killed by a rothe
21:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Fire Brand bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:17793
21:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 609 points, T:2136, killed by a baby owlbear
21:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 61 points, T:213, killed by a goblin
21:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed greased fixed +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:19595
21:56 <tinklebear> !whereis Deathsushi
21:56 <Beholder> tinklebear: [hdf-us] Deathsushi [nh370]: (Val Dwa Fem Law) T:18981 The Dungeons of Doom level: 14
21:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Dragonbane bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:18919
21:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] otc (Che Ang Mal Law), 3769 points, T:1173, slimed by a slime trap
21:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law) destroyed Okjubre's ghost, the former Woman-at-arms, on T:19823
21:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] efw (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 13454 points, T:8520, petrified by a wounded cockatrice
22:00 <Umbire> !whereis tinklebear
22:00 <Beholder> Umbire: [hdf-us] tinklebear [nh370]: (Ran Orc Fem Cha) T:56802 Gehennom level: 38
22:00 * Umbire claps
22:00 <tinklebear> sneekin around Orcus's level
22:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Val Hum Fem Law), 96489 points, T:19940, killed by a nearly deceased minotaur
22:04 -!- Pinkbeas1 has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) entered the Bigroom, on T:22967
22:08 <Umbire> RIP Bart
22:08 <Umbire> !lastgame bartlem
22:08 <Beholder> Umbire: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/B/Bartlem/nethack/dumplog/1611689857.nh.html | [hdf-eu] (sorry, no dump exists for nh363:Bartlem)
22:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 11033 points, T:6092, killed by a wounded black unicorn
22:11 <Deathsushi> Umbire: Got it — thank you
22:12 <Umbire> On that note, I think EvilHack pets can gain intrinsics too now?
22:12 <Deathsushi> Basically jus a medal for killing the dragons' asses and balls
22:12 <Umbire> Or am I thinking of another variant
22:12 <Umbire> K2 help me out here
22:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 2237 points, T:4231, killed by a rothe, while reading a book
22:20 <rld> <@riker> i feel like thats true in evil
22:21 <rld> <@riker> i think fiqhack did it first,or at least before evil if so, and I know evilhack does rings for pets
22:24 <Umbire> Yeah I feel like it's at minimum a FIQ thing
22:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 502 points, T:1573, killed by a hobbit
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22:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 132033 points, T:25677, killed by a wounded rock troll
22:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 863 points, T:1452, killed by an orcish arrow
22:35 <Umbire> !lastgame dgoddard
22:35 <Beholder> Umbire: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dgoddard/nethack/dumplog/1611696922.nh.html
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22:37 <Umbire> Killed a rock troll only to be beset by a mino as a humie valk
22:37 <Umbire> followed by a monk trying to 1v1 a rock troll
22:37 <Umbire> feelsbad, both of them
22:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Bourne (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1458 points, T:1752, killed by a housecat
22:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 718 points, T:1379, poisoned by a rabid rat
22:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] SrinivasSamJespe (Und Hum Fem Law), 52003 points, T:13225, killed by a mumak
22:41 <K2> Umbire, pets can gain intrinsics in evilhack, code came from xnethack
22:44 <Umbire> 👌
22:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Arc Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Investigator, on T:3389
22:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] quervo1 (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2679 points, T:3735, killed by an uninjured blue jelly
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22:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] Alex (Kni Hum Fem Law), 538 points, T:1536, killed by a gas spore's explosion
22:50 <bouquet> !pom
22:50 <Beholder> bouquet: The moon is waxing gibbous; full moon in 2 days.
22:50 <bouquet> that explains all the werefuckers
22:54 <Umbire> Now bouquet, what did I tell you about interrupting foocubi and werefoo?
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23:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Rog Vam Fem Cha) was given the Lash of the Cold Waste, on T:5622
23:08 -!- ThaEwat has quit [*.net *.split]
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23:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 1987 points, T:4484, killed by a gold golem
23:16 <bouquet> all the poison got my health down to 3 before I finally died
23:16 <bouquet> surprised I lasted as long as I did
23:16 <Umbire> F
23:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 184 points, T:827, killed by a giant spider
23:20 <bouquet> so many MR cloaks left for lucky adventurers
23:21 -!- ThaEwat has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
23:35 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] efw (Tou Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:1662
23:59 <Deathsushi> Can anyone explain to me the way a wand's charge numbers work?
23:59 <Deathsushi> Like, if a wand says 0:6, what does that mean?