00:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] hearsegirl (Val Swn Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1615 00:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] nekochan (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Chevaliere, on T:42104 00:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] nekochan (Kni Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Dame, on T:42107 00:03 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Cen Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:27371 00:07 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Cen Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:27633 00:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] nekochan (Kni Hum Fem Law) wished for "Blessed greased horn of plenty named snack attack", on T:42350 00:10 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Cen Fem Neu), 2184812 points, T:27689, killed by the Wizard of Yendor (with the Amulet) 00:10 lost my vorpal blade at the high priest and it wasnt in the lava around the temple :/ 00:11 <@p0werm0de> rip 00:11 Shame. 00:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] hearsegirl (Val Swn Fem Law), 3263 points, T:2687, killed by a gnome lord zombie 00:14 s key thing still not working, bothersome. 00:16 <@p0werm0de> i got my dragon scale wrecked by god wrath lategame too. luckily had just founda magic lamp 00:17 <@p0werm0de> remind me not to pray in geheno 00:17 <@p0werm0de> really never had so much trouble with god like this game 00:17 <@p0werm0de> chronically angry 00:17 Umbire: sorry :c 00:17 <@p0werm0de> must be x-mas related 00:18 microlance :( 00:19 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Con Hob Fem Cha), 296 points, T:945, killed by a jackal, while fainted from lack of food 00:19 Oh, there you are. 00:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] hearsegirl (Nob Hlf Fem Cha), 78 points, T:351, killed by Mr. Akalapi, the shopkeeper 00:19 yeah was away a bit longer than planned 00:20 Mm. 00:20 I haven't done much, so. 00:21 so what would you like help with? 00:21 -!- dtype has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:23 I mean, I have An Idea of what to expect going in, but. 00:23 Other than that + previous NetHack experience, I'm blind. 00:23 just play. if you encounter something you're not familiar with, just ask 00:24 -!- dtype has joined #hardfought 00:24 the wiki article on evilhack has a ton of info too but i'm sure you already knew that 00:24 Mhm. 00:24 Oh, right, I forgot the text actually details blocking now. 00:24 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Ran Orc Fem Cha), 24 points, T:94, killed by a jackal 00:25 I'm just noticing my AC is 4 instead of 7, though, so my first question may as well be about that. 00:27 dexterity has a direct effect on your AC 00:27 as does encumberance 00:27 as does what type of body armor you're wearing 00:31 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Ran Orc Fem Cha), 52 points, T:258, killed by a newt, while reading a book 00:31 Ah. 00:32 So normally this would be... 6 AC? 00:32 Small shield 1 AC + 3 00:32 -!- tinklebear has joined #hardfought 00:32 And the +2 AC is from the dexterity bonus. 00:34 whats your dex 00:34 ah 18 00:34 yup 00:34 make yourself burdened, watch your ac change 00:37 Nah, I think I get the idea now. 00:37 I just had the wrong numbers. 00:40 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Hea Hob Mal Neu), 450 points, T:2143, killed by a piranha 00:40 * tinklebear looks back at recent irclog 00:41 microlance: Arrgh. So sorry. 00:43 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Inf Orc Fem Una), 176 points, T:602, killed by a gas spore's explosion 00:47 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:48 Probably gonna sell this book anyway, but I hope to at least get a BUC check. 00:48 Oh will you look at that. 00:51 <@p0werm0de> is it practical to ride jabberwock for a knight 00:52 <@p0werm0de> also i wanna dual wield bcz i cant cast spells with shield of reflection, lance seems to only make sense while mounted any my saber skill doesnt rise at all ?! have +7 silver saber and a +6 lance 00:52 <@p0werm0de> or does it make sense to everntually read amnesia to redistribute skills 00:52 <@p0werm0de> to go saber 00:53 <@p0werm0de> expert lance/long sword/ skilled dual wield + 3 spell schools which knight can + 1 lvl in riding rn 00:53 Jabberwocks are a valid steed choice due to speed and flight iirc 00:53 <@p0werm0de> seems i am maxed with my skills? or whats up there 00:53 Also what's your XL vs. current saber skill 00:53 <@p0werm0de> saber is unskilled and im xl 25 00:54 <@p0werm0de> seems that really ruins my dual wield having saber unskilled 00:54 p0werm0de: wrt saber skill, you know you need to use the saber as sole weapon to train it 00:54 <@p0werm0de> ah yea ok thy 00:54 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Inf Hum Fem Una), 1880 points, T:2576, killed by a large mimic, while praying 00:54 <@p0werm0de> then ill just go saber 00:54 and yeah, your skill at two-weaponing is limited by your worst weapon, AFAIK 00:55 <@p0werm0de> so is there any limit for skills? 00:55 <@p0werm0de> yea it says when i use enlightement wand that saber limits it all 00:55 Yes. 00:55 I seem to recall knights can only get Skilled at saber (and are also limited to Skilled at two-weaponing) 00:55 Every class has different unrestricted skills and caps on those skills. 00:55 <@p0werm0de> yea id be fine with skilled tho 00:55 <@p0werm0de> dual wield and saber both can reach skilled 00:56 tinklebear: You would be correct. 00:56 <@p0werm0de> but unskilled fkn sux 00:56 so you durdle around awhile on some easy floor and bap things with your saber, then when it's skilled you can two weapon it with whatever you want 00:56 <@p0werm0de> also could use katana but didnt find one yet 00:56 Yeah, you have to train with the weapons themselves before you do twoweaponing with them. 00:56 it's derpy but that's nethack 00:57 <@p0werm0de> ye thats fine im in upper dungeon before tower now anyway 00:57 <@p0werm0de> bcz i lost my armor holy waters and all kinda stuf 00:57 It's not that unusual, thinking about it for a bit. 00:58 Have to master the weapons individually before you can effectively use them together. 00:58 <@p0werm0de> magic missile is def derpy i 2 shot mind flayers etc with it 00:59 <@p0werm0de> kinda weaker than tourist in pure melee RN but the spells dang 00:59 I mean it does scale with your level and Knights are actually capable of skilling up attack spells 00:59 <@p0werm0de> also some of the bosses when i double zap 00:59 + Magic Mirror 00:59 <@p0werm0de> yep wiki says avg dmg is like 110 00:59 <@p0werm0de> at lvl 30 00:59 If anything that's fidelity to the source material. 01:00 <@p0werm0de> and only 10 mp 01:00 Yuhuh. 01:00 p0werm0de: plus, bank shots around corners! 01:00 Magic missile put in work for that Tourist I ascended. 01:01 <@p0werm0de> yep 01:01 <@p0werm0de> seems broken tbh 01:01 <@p0werm0de> also with run speed and jumping most mobs wont ever be able to reach melee range 01:01 Unless they warp. 01:01 <@p0werm0de> too bad i lost magic lamp now for wish 01:01 <@p0werm0de> ye 01:02 <@p0werm0de> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/772457727221825536/791309760913211423/unknown.png?width=1355&height=702 01:04 Good luck. 01:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] k2 (Mon Hlf Mal Neu) was given their Quest, on T:22438 01:07 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Inf Ith Fem Una), 2517 points, T:2841, killed by a falling rock 01:07 -!- rossyrg has joined #hardfought 01:09 Hm, this wooden chain mail is 1 better. 01:09 Neat. 01:10 [hdf-au] [slshm] pityhero (Wiz Dro Mal Cha), 1119 points, T:1622, killed by a paper golem 01:11 It even shows your weight and slots, that's nice. 01:16 Hmm, silver oval amulet... 01:19 Baw, cursed. 01:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kougyoku (Val Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:12233 01:20 ...why is there a giant spider in front of me. 01:20 Why did it almost bite me in half 01:20 Literally 01:21 It's only been three floors, lordt. 01:21 you encounter that on dlvl 3? 01:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] Kougyoku (Val Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Woman-at-arms, on T:12336 01:22 i wonder if the mindepth setting for the themed rooms is off by one 01:22 I can go right back down and show you 01:23 * K2 is watching 01:23 (and also probably die in the process but where the fuck else am I gonna go) 01:23 Could also try to grind a level or two but... 01:24 Let 01:24 me see what these gloves are first 01:24 FYI - be advised, only lawful knights can dip for excalibur 01:24 -!- wvc has joined #hardfought 01:25 nice drop 01:25 you just got MC3 01:25 GoProt 01:25 Sick 01:25 Another set of gloves eh 01:27 What do you want to take off? [cis or *?] 01:27 K2, your game appears to be threatening me with a good time. 01:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] wvc (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:27485 01:27 :) 01:28 Anyway yay backup gloves. 01:28 <@luxidream> hey K2 can I ask you something? 01:28 yup 01:28 Umbire keep that leaf out in open inventory in case you get zombie sickness 01:29 I remember, yeah 01:29 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Sam Gia Mal Law), 4849 points, T:4117, burned by a fireball 01:29 That's the part I'm waiting for, the godsdamn zombies. 01:29 And XL3 just like that, neat. 01:29 Now where's my dog. 01:29 <@luxidream> so when I press enter in a 3.6+ variant in hdf it's ^M instead of ^J 01:29 <@luxidream> is this a hdf patch 01:29 Ooooooh, jumping spiders 01:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] wvc (Bar Orc Mal Cha) was chosen to steal souls for the Glory of Set, on T:27541 01:29 @luxidream no 01:30 they changed it, and I think splicehack/xnethack changed it back 01:30 i need to do same for evilhack 01:30 <@luxidream> I actually really like it, because it removes the conflict between ^J (run down) since ^M doesn't do anything normally 01:30 Yay ID scroll 01:31 you may be the first person i've seen say they like that change 01:31 ideally, it'd be an option 01:31 well shit it could be 01:31 bindings 01:32 Baw, of course it's a strangler 01:32 i need to stop eating these cheetos 01:32 But a very shiny strangler 01:32 Man, the way I went for that bait. 01:32 <@luxidream> I'm not sure why people like it, unless they are actually pressing control+j to confirm or clear messages 01:32 Also this doesn't seem to be a themed room thing 01:33 Just a single room with a web 01:33 Oh, there's the rub. 01:33 Yeah, so it was a themed room, if a sparse one, and it decided "hey this guy ascended he can handle giant spiders" 01:34 yeah something is wrong with mindepth 01:34 hmm 01:34 Does that make me an official beta tester? :D 01:34 spider rooms shouldnt show up until dlvl 4 01:34 heh 01:35 @luxidream congrats on the sub 1hr asc 01:35 <@luxidream> K2: you sure xnethack doesn't do it? 01:35 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/791554536128905256/unknown.png 01:35 D A A A A A M N 01:35 <@luxidream> thanks 🙂 01:35 i dunno 01:35 There's the encumberment penalty 01:35 <@luxidream> if you didn't host this server I wouldn't be able to do it 😄 01:36 \o/ 01:37 so is 3.7.0 easier to asc fast vs 3.6.6 01:38 There was a thing I was gonna do... 01:38 <@luxidream> the things that make the most difference are the force nerf and the teleporting in demon lord lairs 01:38 <@luxidream> so I'd say yes, but not by much 01:39 ah 01:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] k2 (Mon Hlf Mal Neu), 226502 points, T:23488, killed by Master Kaen 01:40 gdamn 01:40 <@luxidream> oh no 01:40 D:! 01:40 <@luxidream> n.n 01:40 ...wait, I have to learn Elbereth manually. 01:40 somehow he got in a ridiculous amount of extra hits 01:40 Right. 01:40 ...not that it matters, I'm just engrave testing. 01:41 i wasnt stunned or paralyzed 01:41 !lastgame k2 01:41 K2: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/dnethack/dumplog/1608743535.dnh.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/dnethack/dumplog/1587912127.dnh.txt | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/dnethack/dumplog/1587911402.dnh.txt 01:41 Alright, so gives me a prompt 01:41 Looks like sleep most likely 01:42 K2: can you tell me why you say 3.7.0 is easier to asc fast vs 3.6.6 01:42 I must know as the person whose records were just beaten 01:43 and I haven't kept track of changes since 3.4.3 01:43 other than elbereth was nerfed 01:43 and magic marker abuse I think was nerfed(?) 01:43 i didnt say it was, i was asking in luxidream thought it was 01:43 *if 01:43 oh 01:43 LUXIDREAM you must answer my questions 01:43 Yo Adeon! 01:43 yo 01:43 Also neat, I just remembered what I was about to do. 01:44 <@luxidream> so plane of water is now cancer in 3.6, you can't levitate through it 01:44 this is awful 01:44 can you still magic breathe your way through it 01:44 <@luxidream> yes but water will blank your entire inventory unless you have oilskin 01:45 <@luxidream> water turbulence is also annoying 01:45 at that point blanking your shit might not be too bad 01:45 <@luxidream> compared to 3.6, 3.7 nerfs the MF slightly 01:45 unless you are very weak and depend on scrolls and potions 01:45 <@luxidream> on average it comes out to be about 4 fewer levels 01:45 maybe I should play a 3.7 game 01:45 <@luxidream> for chaotic characters 01:45 I think I wished for oilskin prior to entering water during my ascension 01:46 Forgot to actually put the stuff in, but didn't lose anything critical fortunately 01:46 I don't remember anymore the last time I played a nethack game 01:46 By the time I did 01:46 it's probably more than a year 01:46 <@luxidream> you are also allowed uncontrolled teleportation on demon lord lairs after disposing of them 01:46 (I ascended btw) 01:46 Yes, I'm still proud, sue me 01:46 Umbire: congrats 01:46 <@luxidream> You can no longer fight on Elbereth 01:46 thank :B 01:47 Oh yeah, that was a big one. 01:47 <@luxidream> It no longer works in gehennom 01:47 yeah elbereth nerf I think is biggest when I consider my own "playstyle" 01:47 They walked back some changes to it but yeah, Elbereth cages are fucking dead 01:47 and by "playstyle" I mean abuse the crap out of elbereth 01:47 <@p0werm0de> ye im rollin non-elbereth conduct bcz its crap anyway 01:47 <@p0werm0de> always write "elf" instead 01:47 E-word can still save your live 01:47 it's just not god-tier anymore 01:47 life* 01:48 <@p0werm0de> well nothin would stop me to engrave it if its critical but didnt need yet 01:48 Speaking of which, wonder where my valk'll learn it from. 01:48 IF I learn it. 01:48 * Umbire is EvilHacking for context 01:48 if I recall correctly even wand of fire/lightning elbereth isn't safe anymore? 01:48 as in won't be permanent 01:48 [hdf-eu] [nh370] wvc (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 216413 points, T:28415, killed by Yeenoghu 01:48 <@p0werm0de> ye they def disappear all when yu fight on it 01:48 <@p0werm0de> while they still safe for walkin over i think? 01:48 I think this is a good change for the game 01:49 I always thought elbereth was a bit dumb 01:49 <@p0werm0de> ye elbereth lame 01:49 why would any new player know about it 01:49 <@p0werm0de> bcz they read the wiki 01:49 they should have just removed it entirely 01:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] Moult (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:5138 01:49 or make it like it was in acehack variant 01:49 I think you pressed . and it made elbereth 01:50 that acehack called heptagram instead of elbereth 01:50 <@luxidream> Adeon, another notable change is in monster speed, monsters can no longer be kited 01:50 Not as reliably anyway. 01:50 <@luxidream> a monster with 6 speed has a 50% chance to move each turn 01:50 luxidream: can you elaborate 01:50 as frequent player of orcs, I concur to the removal of this cheap E-word warding 01:50 <@luxidream> instead of moving deterministically 01:50 if I'm used to 3.4.3 monster movement, will I be freaked out by how monsters move now? 01:50 also >12 speed monsters may get extra moves 01:50 well not freaked out per se 01:51 but you gotta play WAY more careful 01:51 <@luxidream> Probably not, though you can get haxed by a small mimic that decides to move three times in a row 01:51 ^ 01:51 hmm, maybe less guarantees about moving 01:51 Ye 01:51 I'm sure I've memorized some things how movement works in my brain 01:51 and those assumptions will be violated 01:51 does price ID still work? 01:51 <@luxidream> Adeon: importantly, all quest artifacts can now be stolen 01:51 Also far as fire/lightning E-words, even those will eventually potentially scuff 01:51 There's a chance each time a monster is made to flee by it 01:51 <@luxidream> even ones that you wish for from another role 01:52 Uh yeah, it does Adeon 01:52 maybe tooled horn abuse still works 01:52 I forget if it was static in 3.4.3 or what but there's a slight variance 01:52 just toot your horn all the time 01:52 <@luxidream> that still works 01:52 (e.g. 100zm scrolls might be also 133 or w/e) 01:52 <@luxidream> sceptre of might has been changed to only give MR while wielded 01:52 3.4.3 had a chance they would put markup on the price 01:52 <@luxidream> same with aethiopica 01:52 Oh so same as ever then, sounds like 01:52 3.4.3 I've memorized all potions, scrolls and rings I think for price 01:53 As far as quest artifacts: yeah, Rods can snatch them all now 01:53 for any charisma 01:53 <@luxidream> there aren't any major changes to price ID 01:53 <@luxidream> amnesia has been removed in 3.7, the amnesia scroll is now relatively harmless 01:53 now a given shopkeeper's sell-price is always either A) half or B) 3/4 of half. 01:54 oh hell yes 01:54 <@luxidream> this didn't come into play on my run 01:54 amnesia was such bullshit 01:54 people would #quit over it 01:54 <@luxidream> I would too, it's too crippling on a speedrun 01:54 <@luxidream> it looks like you played through an accident on that live run of yours 01:54 I think I hated it because people like to play long games 01:54 *buy-price 01:54 and then you get amnesia 01:54 Amnesia makes you forget spells and skill levels now iirc 01:54 horribly frustrating if you've worked on your character for a long time 01:54 which actually gives it some kind of edge use besides "fuck you your game's twice as long now" 01:54 I think it was some of the worst things the game had in it 01:55 hmmm 01:55 well I'm of opinion they should have removed amnesia entirely 01:55 being able to redistribute skill points isn't a bad plus besides, that said 01:55 but forgetting levels and spells I think is not as bad as forgetting maps 01:55 <@luxidream> it's kept in a way that resembles dcss amnesia 01:55 oh yeah 01:55 <@luxidream> it has uses for people wanting to reskill in a different weapon 01:55 themed rooms exist now 01:55 they took a lot of cues from DCSS 01:55 good 01:55 DCSS has many good design choices 01:56 and I think from SLASH'EM, we have genetic engineers and uh 01:56 displacer beasts right? 01:56 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Con Hum Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:7719 01:56 <@luxidream> right, they don't make much of a difference, honestly 01:57 <@luxidream> in 3.7, uniques will resist scare monster 01:57 <@luxidream> and elbereth, even if they would normally be susceptible 01:57 <@luxidream> You can find the VS using trap detection instead of walking around randomly 01:57 <@luxidream> That's it I think 01:58 <@luxidream> as far as speedrunning goes 01:58 you mean like if I cast wand of secret door detection it might find VS? 01:58 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Con Hum Fem Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:8004 01:58 <@luxidream> you can use gold detection 01:58 <@luxidream> it's a unique trap 01:58 ah 01:59 they also give it the in-game description "vibrating square", which IMHO is a little cringe 01:59 like, what's a "square", in-game? 01:59 <@luxidream> Oh, in 3.7 the soldiers can pick up the castle chest and wander around with it. Since it's clearly not intended to be tampered with I'm hoping that gets patched out eventually 02:00 -!- stenno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:01 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 02:01 <@luxidream> I think that covers most of the main points 02:03 <@luxidream> Adeon: are you considering coming out of retirement? 02:03 <@luxidream> Maybe we can race 😄 02:03 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Con Hum Fem Cha), 12420 points, T:8798, killed by a watchman 02:03 probably not 02:03 Aw :c 02:03 I might sometimes play a random game 02:03 but I don't think I'll ever come out of retirement 02:03 my apologies to everyone 02:03 Das ok 02:03 Anyway time to see what was in this chest that's so important it was trapped 02:03 my "gold age" was when I was in late high school 02:03 <@luxidream> Aw, you were getting my hopes up 02:03 I'm now 30 02:04 I was 19 when I made my streak record 02:04 <@luxidream> How old were you when you did the 1:03 run? 02:04 I forgot 02:04 I can check maybe 02:04 I was born in 1990 02:04 the video in youtube is from 2002 02:05 er, 2012 02:05 lol 02:05 so at most 22 02:05 <@luxidream> So...you were the same age as me 02:05 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05 youngsters will always be better than the old ones 02:06 OOH 02:06 A store with a gnomish shk 02:06 <@luxidream> You're still younger than most of the nethack community 🙂 02:06 ye 02:06 Adeon: you misspelled faster 02:06 * Umbire swats 02:07 🗞 02:07 yup mindepth is definitely off by one 02:07 90 for a food ration seems... pricey 02:07 But I'm ch 8 so 02:07 Probably mostly that 02:07 * Umbire shrugs 02:07 its a gnome shopkeeper 02:08 gnomes go by your int, not cha 02:08 I know, but I don't know how much of that factors into the price 02:08 See, like that 02:08 the wiki lays it all out 02:08 I was back and forth on that page for a while 02:08 Didn't spot that specifically 02:09 And now I do 02:09 Neat 02:09 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack#Racial_shopkeepers 02:09 ah yeah 02:09 Yeah, I was hunting down specific info 02:09 luxidream: I did wonder if nethack itself was kind of in downhill in playerbase and I thought maybe my records last forever 02:09 simply because playerbase itself shrinks 02:09 but that did not happen 02:09 both my streak and speedrun records have now been broken 02:10 For the shopkeeper trope thing I recall thinking it was enough to just note that shopkeeper race now affects prices 02:10 you must avenge your records 02:10 luxidream: I think there's a decent chance your record lasts forever for the same reason 02:10 <@luxidream> for a long time there was no one who could even approach your speedrun record 02:10 <@luxidream> I guess the moral of the story is we need more 19 yr olds to pick up nethack and become speedrunners 02:10 and someday, someone will come around and make luxidream look slow 02:10 <@luxidream> I look forward to that day 🙂 02:11 there aren't many players who bother with realtime speedruns 02:11