00:08 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Pir Elf Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3951 00:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] Piloband (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 116 points, T:704, killed by Mr. Akalapi, the shopkeeper 00:17 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Pir Elf Fem Cha), 14406 points, T:5312, poisoned by a rotted gnome corpse 00:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 156 points, T:292, killed by a boulder 00:23 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Dro Mal Non), 4 points, T:327, killed by a sewer rat 00:28 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Cav Gno Fem Neu), 922 points, T:1243, killed by a parrot, while praying 00:30 [hdf-us] [fh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) killed the wizard of Heliokopis, the former Conjurer, on T:10557 00:31 [hdf-us] [fh] MTF (mtf) (Val Hum Fem Law), 65813 points, T:15081, killed by a red dragon 00:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:3974 00:40 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Thoth, on T:4986 00:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:5595 00:50 [hdf-us] [fh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed rustproof +2 gauntlets of power", on T:11730 00:54 -!- Heliokopis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] tsingi (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 2500 points, T:7148, killed by a warg 01:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] winny (Mon Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a golden naga hatchling, on T:11420 01:10 [hdf-us] [fh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) killed the monk of lynn, the former Initiate, on T:12839 01:14 i have the best pets now huh 01:14 If I want to blessed-geno all mimics, writing "m" is sufficient right? 01:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] winny (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:12370 01:18 [hdf-us] [fh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed bag of holding", on T:12911 01:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 10350 points, T:9539, killed by a mumak 01:26 i think so, because it has monster class `m` 01:27 never found it a good thing to genocide though 01:29 more stuff in orcus town 01:33 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:35 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:39 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:36957 01:52 -!- Heliokopis has joined #hardfought 01:55 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:06 [hdf-us] [fh] MTF (mtf) (Val Hum Fem Law), 45908 points, T:8068, killed by a gargoyle 02:13 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 02:21 -!- eggandhull has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:32 -!- Heliokopis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 02:39 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Val Hum Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:65548 02:44 in evilhack, can you farm zombies for experience? 02:45 -!- greg88 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49 -!- Bliss56 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52 up to a point, at some point they stop regenerating. 02:58 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 03:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] Darothok (Val Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:3190 03:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] Darothok (Val Hum Fem Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:3755 03:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2539 03:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 138116 points, T:23007, killed by a rock troll 03:16 mobileuser, how long does it take to get to that point? 03:16 they seem to regenerate forever for me 03:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] Darothok (Val Hum Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:5995 03:28 bugsniper I don't know :-) but at some point they don't come back 03:30 not sure how long that takes. I usually end up having to burn them or run off of the level. 03:30 maybe because there are a lot more zombies 03:41 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Val Hum Fem Law) genocided electric eels, on T:65760 03:41 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 03:41 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 03:41 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 03:58 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:06 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Famine, on T:65808 04:08 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:08 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the Black Horse, on T:65813 04:16 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Dro-Pri Dro Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3664 04:19 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed figurine of a woodchuck named Carl", on T:65833 04:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Val Hum Fem Law), 4063245 points, T:65835, ascended 04:21 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/m/mobileuser/evilhack/dumplog/1597906319.evil.html 04:30 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Dro-Pri Dro Fem Cha) was given Tobiume, on T:5376 04:40 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Dro-Pri Dro Fem Cha) was given the Wallet of Perseus, on T:7492 04:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) averted death, on T:2439 04:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 809 points, T:2448, killed by a giant spider 04:50 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Pri Dro Fem Cha), 30550 points, T:8752, killed by an ogre lord, while fainted from lack of food 04:50 -!- bugsniper has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 392 points, T:1479, killed by a fox, while reading a book 05:10 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 05:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 05:18 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 789 points, T:2148, killed by a paper golem 05:23 [hdf-eu] [dnh] fxenakis (Mon Bat Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:11782 05:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 469 points, T:458, killed by a goblin 05:35 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 05:39 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Rog Bat Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 large elven broadsword", on T:2549 05:41 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] XYS (Rog Hum Mal Cha) destroyed gargor's ghost, the former Bandit, on T:3323 05:44 [hdf-eu] [evil] elenmirie (Inf Orc Fem Una) had a war hammer entrusted to her by Moloch, on T:12238 05:47 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Rog Bat Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3467 05:54 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 05:54 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 05:54 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 06:22 [hdf-eu] [dnh] fxenakis (Mon Bat Fem Cha) was given Frost Brand, on T:12375 06:29 [hdf-eu] [dnh] fxenakis (Mon Bat Fem Cha) was given the Garnet Rod, on T:13244 06:30 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Warrior, on T:22222 06:48 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 06:48 <@bubbles> congrats mobileuser! 06:48 <@bubbles> also that one little soldier ant on astral, just trying his hardest 06:51 thx bubbles! yeah, the priests keep spamming those poor brave insects. :b 06:55 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) became literate by reading a book, on T:6636 06:56 [hdf-eu] [evil] elenmirie (Inf Orc Fem Una) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:16267 07:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed Raisse's ghost, the former Acolyte, on T:786 07:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:23222 07:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:23224 07:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] Alasnuyo (Arc Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 mithril Holy Moonlight Sword", on T:126448 07:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:1373 07:10 <@bubbles> it's weird that by late game spam insects is a blessing 07:10 <@bubbles> gives you a bit of a buffer 07:11 depends what you're trying to do i suppose 07:11 <@bubbles> I guess they delay you a bit but they stop most of the bad thigns getting to you 07:11 <@bubbles> though if there is a bad spellcaster I guess they are annoying 07:15 without sickness resistance, locusts are annoying. 07:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2647 points, T:2550, killed by a soldier ant 07:16 sometimes I just tame the lot, a buffer that I can wade through 07:23 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +3 dragonbane", on T:9230 07:24 WoW in the mines. sweet 07:24 Nice! 07:25 congrats on the valk, mobileuser ! 07:25 thank you! :-) 07:26 this game was going so badly. I was down to 1 hp a few times and almost just quit lol 07:26 with a little help from your bones BTW ;-) 07:26 oh nice ! 07:26 were they deep? 07:27 I avenged you and killed Demo 07:27 oh that game! awesome 07:27 you were probably all set by then anyway. But i think i still had wishes left? few markers? 07:28 yeah 2 wishes and some markers 07:28 plus surprisingly recharged wands of death 07:28 polypiling? 07:28 si 07:29 heh 07:29 mystery solved 07:29 oh yeah i had one that was like 3:4 or something 07:29 it was a shame I was lawful 07:29 all those tasty neutral artifacts... 07:29 the best is when you get say a secret door detection or enlightenment wand to turn into a death/telport wand 1:14 or whatever 07:30 ah yes... Both eyes and PYEC ? 07:30 hypothetical optimal man would pick neutral just for those bones 07:30 i'm playing lawful now too and I always play neutral I almost just screwed up with that first wish! 07:31 eyes, PYEC, there was a third one I think... 07:32 monk eyes, eota and pyec i think 07:32 oh sorry yes, 2 kinds of eyes :-) 07:35 amateurhour normally I choose neutral, but lawful human valk was still unascended 07:38 you were lured by the promise of glory :^) 07:42 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 07:43 congrats mobileuser! 07:43 \o/ thank you! 07:44 shame Dagul the Balrog wouldn't drink his full healing, I got him all the way to astral 07:45 still, thanks to rebatela I had a wish left for Carl :-) 07:45 Dagul the Stubborn 07:55 [hdf-eu] [un] wonsacz530 (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 170 points, T:1044, killed by a goblin, while fainted from lack of food 07:57 balrogs make awesome pets! 07:58 i think my current favorite is titan though, and i always try to tame if i get that medsua level 08:05 new in evilhack: once a tame vampire mage pet in animal/fog form is dead, they remain in vampire mage form 08:05 no changing back to their weak form 08:05 I had two awesome vampire mage pets 08:06 level 30, able to cast touch of death 08:06 no you FOOL 08:06 ? 08:06 you've committed the classic blunder of revealing your unsanctioned fun to L3 08:07 :^) 08:07 but he introduced that fun himself ;-) 08:07 lol L3 08:08 K2 giveth and L3 taketh away 08:08 haha 08:12 I0 is the one to watch out for 08:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:3006 08:25 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) completed Sokoban, acquiring a magic marker, on T:14159 08:26 as long as he doesn't lurk in chat he can't see our messages 08:26 Blind I0 08:26 and his half-brother M4 08:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 4604 points, T:3799, killed by a soldier ant 08:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 7 points, T:50, killed by a fox 08:30 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed the invisible stoicjin's ghost, the former Woman-at-arms, on T:25565 08:35 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:15138 08:39 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 914 points, T:1454, killed by an orc zombie 08:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 678 points, T:929, killed by a gnome king 08:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 373 points, T:846, burned by a tower of flame 08:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:26887 08:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] phaperplane2 (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:6503 09:00 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 937 points, T:2240, killed by a dart 09:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] phaperplane2 (Kni Hum Fem Law) was given Rhongomyniad, on T:6798 09:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Alasnuyo (Arc Hum Mal Neu) killed the Oracle, on T:129368 09:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 248 points, T:876, killed by a gecko, while frozen by a trap 09:12 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed amulet of magic resistance", on T:17930 09:12 <@FIQ> @riker that's basically a result of me being too lazy to ensure that you start with your generated spells pre-identified 09:12 @FIQ: Message from @riker at 2020-08-27 21:31 EDT: your'e going to make like everything auto-ID but not confusion potions when thrown and they confuse you? 09:13 <@FIQ> I should probably fix that 09:13 <{Demo}2> wow 09:13 <@FIQ> @riker the confusion potion thing is a mistake. I intend to fix all cases but they're easy to overlook here and there 09:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:1133 09:18 morning 09:18 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 494 points, T:2036, killed by a dwarf 09:23 morning fiq 09:25 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Swashbuckler, on T:27685 09:27 [hdf-eu] [dnh] fxenakis (Mon Bat Fem Cha), 190534 points, T:19148, killed by a gigantic pseudodragon 09:28 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law), 71481 points, T:19664, killed by a giant captain 09:29 sigh... find those bones 09:29 i was too busy trying to aviod the gelatinous cube. god, i hate those things 09:30 1:1 WoW, magic lamp, speed boots, dragonbane (if it leaves bones) 09:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 2174 points, T:1826, killed by a gnome king, while sleeping 09:36 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1273 09:38 gelcubes are bastards 09:39 esp. w/ no free action 09:41 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] phaperplane2 (Kni Hum Fem Law) was given Sky Render, on T:11788 09:47 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (rust monsters), on T:28277 09:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2918 points, T:2900, killed by an Uruk-hai 09:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] nabru (Kni Hlf Fem Law), 0 points, T:69, slipped while mounting a saddled riding pseudodragon called your mom 09:57 -!- joes has joined #hardfought 09:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Mon Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Student of Winds, on T:17976 10:01 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:29445 10:07 <@riker> fiq, that's why I left you a msg :p 10:12 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 10:13 <{Demo}2> why do spellbooks in xnh have varying weights? 10:13 <{Demo}2> oh, school, wtf 10:14 higher level spell = heaveier 10:14 heavier 10:14 <{Demo}2> i was gonna ask how sac is changed 10:14 <{Demo}2> then i remembered 10:15 <{Demo}2> indirectly 10:16 <{Demo}2> monster generation is nearly disabled 10:17 <{Demo}2> why doesnt wielding a wand of striking decrease my force bolt cost? 10:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) reached Minetown, on T:1819 10:23 -!- VaderFLAG_ has joined #hardfought 10:23 -!- VaderFLAG is now known as Guest8077 10:23 -!- Guest8077 has quit [Killed (hitchcock.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 10:23 -!- VaderFLAG_ is now known as VaderFLAG 10:24 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 10:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 10:27 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:2717 10:29 is it really true that you don't even start with the spells for your starting books known in FIQhack? so if you go through a lot of chars, you'll very probably eventually forget to read the damn book on every single new game and find out at a critical time? lol 10:30 <{Demo}2> wtf wielding wands in xnh doesnt work anymore?? 10:31 that is true Amy, at least for monks 10:31 if you have high int the boost from wielding a wand will be lower or zero 10:31 this is not new 10:31 2 smart 4 ur own good 10:32 maybe I should make it so that wielding a wand cuts a spell cost enormously, but uses a charge when you cast the spell, rather than a permanent passive success rate boost 10:36 for often-used spells like force bolt that sounds like it would empty the wand very quickly :P 10:36 -!- Andrio has left #hardfought 10:36 -!- Andrio has joined #hardfought 10:36 chance of consuming charge proportional to spell level? 10:36 <{Demo}2> so wielding books is stronger than wielding wands? 10:37 they do different things currently, but my guess is yes 10:37 <{Demo}2> well, i can confirm that is so 10:37 the tradeoff for a better effect is you have to carry around a book 10:37 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a silver dragon, on T:30796 10:39 !PoM 10:39 APic: The moon is at first quarter; full moon in 4 days. 10:41 <{Demo}2> so, like, what do I do as a wizard elf? 10:41 <{Demo}2> in xnh early game 10:42 <{Demo}2> cant grind an altar, fucked up minetown, food is super limited 10:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] tori (Val Hum Fem Neu), 199569 points, T:7499, killed by a troll, while fainted from lack of food 10:48 -!- VaderFLAG_ has joined #hardfought 10:48 -!- VaderFLAG has quit [Killed (verne.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 10:48 -!- VaderFLAG_ is now known as VaderFLAG 10:54 <{Demo}2> as an elf in xnh, if i wear iron gloves, is there any punishment beyond the damage on taking them on/off? 10:55 <@riker> yeah u get shamed by the elf community 10:55 <@riker> they put ur name on the dartboard in the break room 10:56 [hdf-eu] [evil] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law) had a steel dagger entrusted to him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:12524 11:00 currently no lasting penalty from wearing iron gear 11:01 <{Demo}2> cool, thanks 11:01 "currently" 11:01 <{Demo}2> my strength was abysmal 11:01 <{Demo}2> being an elf has its issues 11:01 fast forward to xnethack 2.0 or whatever the next version is: "elves now don't regenerate HP or Pw while wearing a single piece of iron" :D 11:02 LarienTelrunya: wouldn't that be entirely consistent with what other variants with material hatred do 11:02 It's what UnNetHack does, excepting one's own quest artifact 11:03 though only if you're actually touching it; wielding Magicbane while wearing leather gloves is perfectly fine 11:03 <{Demo}2> 2a but it isn't upsidedown 11:03 and IIRC only HP, not power 11:03 unnethack is weird in that it has material hatred behaviors without actually having the materials patch 11:03 Mm 11:03 <{Demo}2> dnh makes it slow hp regen A LOT 11:04 Including ring/artifact regeneration? 11:04 I changed a bunch of things that were iron (artis, amulets) into metal in order to not penalize elves for them 11:05 [hdf-eu] [evil] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law) had a spear entrusted to him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:13749 11:05 aosdict: yes, that's why I made that prediction; from a game design perspective I consider it terrible because it's way too big a nerf for the elf race 11:06 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:31879 11:06 why would one voluntarily pick elf in, say, unnethack? the only advantage I can think of is a very slightly higher INT cap, and for that you can basically use only 5% of all weapons and also not much regular armor? 11:06 why would you pick an elf in vanilla? 11:07 also remember that racial armor has +1 AC 11:07 <{Demo}2> elf wizard 11:07 <{Demo}2> for 20 int 11:07 <{Demo}2> for hungerless casting 11:07 <{Demo}2> so in xnh with FAST pw regen, i can fucka spam force bolt whjile wielding the book 11:07 elves get sleep res 11:07 <{Demo}2> in early game 11:07 good enough reason for me 11:07 <{Demo}2> i can play it kinda like dnh incant 11:07 "hey here's a long swo-oh wait, my character no longer works if I equip that." 11:08 "hey a dwarven iron he-oh wait, I'd rather let the mind flayer suck my brain because if I wear it, I'm totally screwed." :P 11:08 elves have their own hats 11:08 weirdo 11:08 lol yeah, and what's the chance of finding one? bonus points for elves spawning peaceful so you have to murder them to actually get elven gear :D 11:09 K2 i am trying to debug some stuff is it cool that i just installed nmap on nhs? (i should have done the asking first, admittedly, sorry) 11:09 !tell K2 pushed a fix: you no longer get starting spellbooks. Instead, you just get the spell directly 11:09 Will do, FIQ! 11:09 You do retain the identity of the books 11:11 [hdf-au] [dnh] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:32153 11:11 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed +2 shield of reflection", on T:31880 11:12 <{Demo}2> i blew up izchaks door (not my fault i blame the monkey standing in front of it), how much to pay him off? 11:12 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:13 400 iirc 11:13 YASI for variants where iron screws over elves: "elven iron helm" item, worn specifically by those elves that want to tell everyone they're masochist. :D 11:13 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:13 but it doesn't always work 11:15 <{Demo}2> i guess ill have to try 11:15 -!- eggandhull has joined #hardfought 11:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:11510 11:22 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 11:22 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 11:22 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 11:25 FIQ: why not do it like vanilla does, by having the character start with both the book and the spell memorized? with the change you just made, it means that as soon as spell memory runs out, that's it unless you get very lucky to find a copy of the book 11:26 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:7016 11:28 <{Demo}2> fuck, im fucked 11:28 <{Demo}2> im grabbed by a giant mimic with 6 hp and i just prayed recently to escape harm 11:28 <{Demo}2> what do I do? 11:28 <{Demo}2> on soko end 11:28 <{Demo}2> 6 pw 11:28 <{Demo}2> can't cast cause fear or jumping 11:29 does Elbereth work in your variant? 11:29 <{Demo}2> its xnh 11:29 <{Demo}2> so no idea 11:29 <{Demo}2> i could try scrawling it in my fingers but thats a risk it might work 11:29 <{Demo}2> no digging or fire or lightning wand out 11:29 <{Demo}2> i could try a prayer but that's a risk as well 11:31 <{Demo}2> prayer is rnz(100) 11:31 <{Demo}2> is it better to try a prayer, or an elbereth? 11:31 LarienTelrunya: YANI: for variants in which elves are truly downtrodden, have them start the game with knowledge of 1 (maybe even 2) low level enchantment spell. (No book though.) 11:32 <{Demo}2> is prayer rnz(100)? 11:32 FIQ: wasn't there a reason you gave starting characters the books 11:32 uhh what enchantment spells do exist in vanilla? confuse monster? 11:32 like if they wanted to poly them or something 11:32 sleep, confuse monster, cause fear 11:32 what happens after 20k turns? You have to find a copy of the book? 11:32 variants adjust the levels of these so low-level ones may vary 11:33 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 18394 points, T:7061, killed by a giant mimic 11:33 <{Demo}2> fucker 11:33 <{Demo}2> prayer failed, died 11:33 I feel like starting with confuse monster is probably the least powerful option that is still a decent buff 11:34 aosdict: the reason was more that I didn't want to double up on a player's knowledge 11:34 just wanted to say that sleep is probably the strongest of the bunch 11:34 which is why they were removed as starting spells but not as books 11:34 in vanilla it lasts ridiculously long and the monster is very unlikely to wake up even when you batter it, for some reason 11:34 I reversed the decision now 11:35 FIQ: also wasn't there some startscumming related reason 11:35 rebatela: I didn't change the spell knowledge duration in any way. Beforehand, you had no spells but you could use the books (which are consumed after a single read) to get 60k turns of memory 11:35 rebatela: giving them the spell and not the book so it dies out in 20k turns seems okay 11:35 Now, you get 60k turns of knowledge automatically, but no books 11:35 You still retain knowledge of book ID 11:35 gotcha 11:35 20k is quite a lot 11:36 aosdict: if there was, I don't remember it 11:36 or maybe it should work like fiqhack's system and elves just permanently know confuse monster 11:37 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:32847 11:37 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 11:37 pathos has a trinsic, I don't remember what it was called 11:37 but it prevents stun and confusion 11:37 [hdf-us] [evil] sluggoman (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 2456 points, T:2576, killed by a chameleon imitating a yellow dragon 11:38 <{Demo}2> dnh has numina do that 11:38 when you have the trinsic, you can invoke an ability to confuse yourself 11:38 so you can still benefit from those effects 11:38 <{Demo}2> dnh doesnt have that 11:38 <{Demo}2> when its blocked, its blocked 11:38 since an average ascension takes much less than 60k turns, forgotten spells are basically a non-thing in FH now :P (I've said that before; even in vanilla my samurai sometimes still have 10% or so memory left of their one spell when I reach the planes) 11:38 LarienTelrunya: that is in fact intentional 11:39 <{Demo}2> punishing slow players is bad 11:39 and very much deliberate 11:39 {Demo}2: ? 11:39 if anything it's punishing fast players 11:39 <{Demo}2> dont i eat a book when i read it or something 11:40 {Demo}2: the duration is the same as vanilla overall 11:40 vanilla gives 3 uses of 20k turns 11:40 fh gives 1 use of 60k turns 11:40 making it so that procrastination makes the game easier is IMHO the opposite of what should be desired... 11:40 <{Demo}2> fine 11:40 <{Demo}2> you pass 11:40 the reason was to reduce spellbook micromanagement 11:40 <{Demo}2> yeah thats good i take it back 11:40 spellbook micromanagement could be easily removed by just having the SLASH'EM way of "you cast the spell, your spell memory goes up" :D 11:40 no need to carry the stupid book under that system! 11:41 [hdf-eu] [un] fxenakis (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 63 points, T:25, killed by an Elvenking 11:41 that just changes the micromanagement to "cast the spell a bunch to make sure it doesn't run out, keep tabs on all your spells to avoid this" 11:41 which I'd argue is even worse 11:41 how about not forgetting spells at all? 11:41 I think it's slightly less bad in that at least spells you routinely use don't go away 11:42 jilles: there is a point behind it 11:42 it acts as a nerf to casters 11:42 <{Demo}2> yeah fuck spell memory 11:42 who are otherwise the strongest combat type in the game 11:42 [hdf-eu] [evil] elenmirie (Inf Orc Fem Una), 49764 points, T:17340, killed by a panther 11:43 FIQ, but it's only the slower players that fall victim to it 11:43 jilles: would you rather use an ADOM-like system 11:43 and a pre-3.2 system 11:43 where spells were kinda like wands 11:43 wow FIQ did u rly just nerf the don't-learn-the-spell-sell-the-spellbook strategy 11:43 except they have a lot more charges 11:43 or as I call it, the sellbook 11:44 basically in ADOM, based on a bunch of stuff including some attributes and other stuff 11:44 you get x charges for a spell you learn 11:44 you can read a spellbook several times in quick succession to increase x with diminishing returns, eventually the book disappears 11:44 <{Demo}2> use the gnollhack system :P 11:44 limited # of casts sounds even more tedious 11:45 and as you cast the spell, the charges go down slightly at random 11:45 with the last few charges drastically increasing the energy cost of the psell when it's almost gone 11:45 NetHack 3.1 and earlier actually works the same way 11:45 but I think the charges is completely hidden to the player 11:46 nethack 1.3d doesn't have spell memory at all 11:46 if you have the mana (and food) you can cast the spell 11:46 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:46 it's balanced (poorly) because spellbooks are rare and reading them is risky 11:48 I said 3.1, not 1.3d, but you seem to be correct, 1.3d has no limit a tall 11:48 3.1, however, does 11:49 i liked the gnollhack system. memory isn't a factor, spell copmponents are 11:49 it makes no sense that my wizard, who has been casting force bolt all the time for the last 20k turns, suddenly no longer knows how to cast it 11:49 that would be like if I, after two years of interviewing passengers on trains, suddenly woke up one morning and found myself no longer capable of speaking to people and thus be unable to do my job :P 11:49 well he was having trouble recalling it... 11:49 really it should take more turns to cast if you have trouble recalling it 11:50 also reduced success 11:50 wow 11:50 ok jilles I looked at the code in 3.1 closer 11:50 and while it does work the way I said 11:50 LarienTelrunya, I'd say gameplay trumps "realism" in most cases, but I don't think spell memory has much gameplay benefit 11:50 in grunthack everytime you cast the spell, your memory timer is increased. potentially if you cast the spell all the time, you'd never forget it 11:50 K2: Message from FIQ at 2020-08-28 11:09 EDT: pushed a fix: you no longer get starting spellbooks. Instead, you just get the spell directly 11:50 the *amount* of uses you get is, well... 11:50 not a lot 11:50 however, the default 20k turns is instead 10k 11:51 spl_book[i].sp_uses += rn1(1,9-spl_book[i].sp_lev); 11:51 jilles: well sorry for being blunt but having to walk back all the way to the stash to "refresh" spellbooks every 20k turns sounds like gameplay directly from the toilet to me :P where's the fun in that? 11:51 increasing memory occurs in slex as well K2 11:51 LarienTelrunya, exactly 11:51 1-9 uses for a level 1 spell per book read, 1-3 uses for a level 7 spell 11:52 yay grunthack! ♥ 11:52 LarienTelrunya, that it's boring to going back for a book is a better argument than that it's not realistic 11:52 maybe that's why the spell of genocide is "balanced" in pre-3.2 11:52 since you get 4-12 uncursed genocides from a book 11:52 FIQ, hah, so spellbooks are just fancy wands 11:52 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) polymorphed her first object, on T:33731 11:52 jilles: well, they are with the above system too :P 11:52 YANI that no one will like: casting spells *decreases* your spell memory 11:52 just that I expected maybe 30-50 charges 11:52 not less than 10 11:53 in a weird blend of vancian magic with nethack's Pw system 11:53 aosdict: that is pretty much the system I described above 11:53 aosdict: slex has a nastytrap that does exactly that; if you trigger it, better hope it wears off before you run out of charges for your favorite spellbooks 11:53 except it doesn't decrease over time, only as you cast the spell 11:53 I considered it, and while I think it could be a way to balance casters more 11:53 everyone would hate it 11:53 so I decided to not do that 11:54 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 11:54 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:54 Elona uses a spell stock system for spells too, except that as the game goes on you find so many spellbooks and they give so many castings that you won't run out anymore even if you constantly cast ;) 11:54 LarienTelrunya: well Elona is inspired from ADOM 11:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] naoky (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Heroine, on T:33753 11:54 and ADOM works that way, so.. 11:55 in ADOM, the item generation makes it so that caster roles find more books than others 11:55 much more, in fact 11:55 I always idsliked that 11:55 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55 it made no sense to me why your role would influence what you'd find in the dungeon 11:55 in Elona there is a NPC where you can reserve spellbooks, and then that NPC will sell books of that type over and over, so you can stock up on your favorite spells with enough money and make sure they don't run out 11:56 LarienTelrunya: do elona pets turn on you randomly? 11:56 they can do that in ADOM 11:56 which annoyed me a lopt 11:56 *a lot 11:56 no, but they can be brainwashed, temporary status effect that makes them attack you 11:56 that's fair 11:56 how is elona in terms of monster/player symmetry 11:56 I guess not v ery high 11:56 since it's inspired from ADOM 11:56 which doesn't have it at all 11:57 quite symmetric actually, monsters and pets have all the same stats and skills that the player also has; certain skills work slightly differently 11:57 hmm interesting 11:57 that's very different from adom 11:57 what about spells 11:57 gardening for example, only the player can actually harvest crops; pets instead use the skill to gain plant materials when killing an enemy 11:57 ahh 11:58 does elona have alertness 11:58 and is it just as broken as in adom :P 11:58 huh what's that? sounds like something to do with stealth? 11:58 well, not broken as much as a godtier skill 11:58 Alertness makes you able to dodge better 11:58 but it applies to basically everything 11:58 enemy attacks, traps, etc 11:58 ah, well elona has greater evasion as a skill, but it only works against physical attacks 11:58 nothing else lets you avoid traps as good as alertness does 11:59 and in a game like ADOM where item destruction from traps is rampant 11:59 alertness becomes godtier 11:59 for traps Elona has a specific "disarm trap" skill, and detection for finding them in advance 11:59 oh adom ha sboth of these 11:59 but they're pretty much useless, especially disarm traps 11:59 because failing to disarm a trap there triggers it on you instead without being able to avoid it 11:59 thankfully not much item destruction in elona, fire and cold can destroy certain items but there's fire- and coldproof blankets and if your resistance to those elements is high enough the item destruction just plain no longer happens at all 12:00 and it's much easier to just avoid a known trap than to try to disarm it 12:00 heh, in Elona it's so weird that once discovered, you cannot set off a trap at all 12:00 in adom the chance to trigger a known trap is like 10% or something 12:01 also, since walking into a trap auto-discovers it (but sadly only if the player walks into it), there's only one chance per trap to trigger 12:02 and annoyingly pets can only disarm known traps, so if they repeatedly walk over a hidden trap, it stays hidden and they cannot disarm it on their own :/ 12:02 [hdf-us] [evil] sluggoman (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 738 points, T:1807, killed by a kitten called Lumen 12:03 is there an english elona+ 12:03 of course, Elona+ is mostly translated 12:03 mostly? 12:04 and for my Amylona variant I pulled translations for the missing stuff from some other variant ;) 12:04 knowing what I do about slex, I think I might pass on amylona 12:05 in fact, if you want to try Elona I'd recommend Amylona, because Elona+ version 1.78 and onwards have passed the shark, basically the 3.6/3.7 of Elona :P 12:05 why? 12:05 I have nothing against 3.7 beyond the current balance problems with vaults 12:05 and orctown 12:05 well would you want to play a game where pets and NPCs randomly urinate complete with messages that are supposed to be "funny"? because that's what the elona dev did when he made version 1.78. 12:06 that's something I'd expect from slex 12:06 heh, I, the slex dev, intentionally passed up the elona version that introduced that garbage, so that should be telling you something ;) 12:06 it's, in my eyes, irredeemably bad 12:06 you also dislike 3.7 12:07