00:00 <@ShivanHunter> K2 awesome, thanks :D 00:03 o/ 00:04 funny bit of trivia - it initially used to :) 00:04 Tangles fixed that one 00:04 bugsniper - YES you can so long as its armor that can burn 00:05 I think for full evil, dipping a cursed piece of armor into the forge should, obviously, bring your body part with it, because it's stuck on your body part 00:05 cursed gloves? guess you didn't really need those hands anyway... 00:05 you can take burn damage from doing that if not fire resistant 00:05 thats in 00:06 [hdf-us] [xnh] Starlock (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1380 points, T:2608, poisoned by a rotted water nymph corpse, while helpless 00:06 !lastgame Starlock 00:06 aosdict: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/S/Starlock/xnethack/dumplog/1597546878.xnh.html 00:07 why "while helpless", we're supposed to be past that 00:07 <{Demo}2> is there a tshirt for forge chug championship? 00:07 lol no 00:07 there is a 'mandatory fun shirt' though 00:07 there's no while helpless there 00:07 ugh 00:09 need to sleeeeep. gnite all 00:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 0 points, T:20, killed by a bolt of fire 00:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Arc Hum Fem Law), 4722 points, T:6731, killed by a blast of frost 00:28 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 00:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:3809 00:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2803 00:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 3129 points, T:4039, killed by a dwarf lord 00:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered a temple, on T:3310 00:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3319 00:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:3458 00:41 is there a way to make forges blue in evilhack? 00:41 so that they don't look like lava 00:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) destroyed oh6's ghost, the former Investigator, on T:3947 00:42 !tell K2 how do you change the color of forges? 00:42 K2 shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, bugsniper. 00:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) read a Discworld novel, on T:6337 00:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a wererat, on T:8788 01:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 5871 points, T:8958, killed by a dwarf lord, while sleeping 01:17 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:24 -!- telegarn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Bachelor, on T:3115 01:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:3433 01:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered a temple, on T:3501 01:42 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 01:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Mal Law) made his first wish - "blessed fixed greased gray dragon scale mail", on T:3614 01:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Ana Inc Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased bag of holding", on T:27235 02:02 -!- bugsniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03 -!- bugsniper has joined #hardfought 02:03 -!- bugsniper_ has joined #hardfought 02:14 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:5055 02:32 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) was given Atlantean Royal Sword, on T:7457 02:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 667 points, T:1709, killed by a dwarf zombie 03:27 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +5 tiny double lightsaber", on T:11412 03:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1496 points, T:4524, killed by a bat, while fainted from lack of food 03:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 910014 points, T:28274, killed by an invisible elder brain 03:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 103 points, T:416, killed by a goblin, while sleeping 03:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 388 points, T:918, killed by a master mind flayer 03:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 230 points, T:615, killed by a newt 03:57 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) was given their Quest, on T:13932 04:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 0 points, T:2, killed by a giant spider 04:01 -!- aoei has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:01 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 04:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 105 points, T:494, killed by a boulder 04:18 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:20 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) killed the Master of Thieves, on T:15164 04:35 -!- bugsniper has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:50 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) wished for "cursed fixed mithril tinning kit", on T:16732 04:54 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:55 @microlance what do you want it cursed for? 04:56 <@microlance> because its supposed to be better, more nutrition. not that it matters for my character. 04:56 <@microlance> on the blood 04:57 oh 04:58 -!- bugsniper_ is now known as bug_sniper 04:58 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed fluorite octet", on T:17010 04:58 !tell K2 is there something like a #splash command? What if you want to splash lava from a forge onto other monsters? 04:58 bug_sniper: Messages from aosdict and K2 have been forwarded to you privately. 04:58 No worries, bug_sniper, I've got this! 05:10 -!- aoei has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 05:16 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:17758 05:20 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:22 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had a magical bone-carved staff entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:47559 05:26 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:28 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) became the Envoy of Balance, on T:19073 05:37 -!- oh7 has joined #hardfought 05:37 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:37 -!- oh7 is now known as oh6 05:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2431 05:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 2262 points, T:2874, killed by a gnome king 05:47 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:1666 05:51 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha), 3052 points, T:1884, killed by an owlbear 05:56 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had Luck Blade bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:48357 06:03 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) killed Axus, on T:24083 06:05 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha), 422 points, T:895, killed by a killer mimic 06:11 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) killed Oona, on T:24505 06:32 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2819 06:34 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 06:44 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha), 6132 points, T:3583, killed by a bear, while sleeping 06:51 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:50128 07:02 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had a bone banded mail entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:50880 07:19 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) was given Tensa Zangetsu, on T:27591 07:25 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 07:25 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 07:36 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 07:36 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 07:36 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 07:49 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) killed Shelob, on T:29454 07:54 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha), 0 points, T:78, killed by a water elemental 07:55 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 07:55 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 07:55 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 07:55 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) killed the high shaman of Moloch, on T:29912 07:58 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) killed Lungorthin, on T:30013 08:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) bribed Asmodeus with 1796 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:66604 08:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Juiblex, on T:66636 08:06 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Arc Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:37221 08:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 39493 points, T:17193, petrified by touching a cockatrice corpse bare-handed 08:10 <@ShivanHunter> Go team %! 08:22 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:43677 08:35 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Hea Inc Mal Neu) became the Messenger of Hermes, on T:44720 08:36 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 08:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 08:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Pri Hum Mal Law), 54 points, T:392, killed by a wand 08:39 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Hea Inc Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 gauntlets of spell power", on T:44813 08:40 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Client Quit] 08:40 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha), 1350 points, T:1419, killed by a boulder 08:44 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 08:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Bin Hum Mal Non) was given the Pen of the Void, on T:6356 08:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Bin Hum Mal Non) was given the Holy Moonlight Sword, on T:6767 08:59 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:03 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1225 points, T:1867, killed by a cave spider 09:09 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 09:16 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 707 points, T:2833, killed by an arrow 09:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Pri Hum Mal Law), 759 points, T:2430, killed by a gnome lord, while praying 09:22 morning 09:22 K2: Message from bugsniper at 2020-08-16 00:42 EDT: how do you change the color of forges? 09:22 K2: Message from bug_sniper at 2020-08-16 04:58 EDT: is there something like a #splash command? What if you want to splash lava from a forge onto other monsters? 09:23 !tell bug_sniper 1) i dont know, not sure you can? 2) no there isnt 09:23 Will do, K2! 09:23 starting off my morning with a bag full of no 09:24 <{Demo}2> throw a wand of cancellation in it 09:25 heh 09:26 <{Demo}2> I woke up and it just feels like I've been eating lead based paint all night 09:26 you gotta lay off the jolt 09:27 <{Demo}2> I can't get jolt anymore they lost the dollar general deal I think 09:27 nooooooo 09:27 whats your fallback plan? 09:28 (the correct answer here is 'water') 09:28 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1506 points, T:2991, killed by a dwarf 09:28 https://www.canmuseum.com/Staging/Images/Cans/45774L.jpg 09:29 <{Demo}2> lead based paint maybe 09:30 <{Demo}2> that's really scary looking, especially the 35p 09:31 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 65 points, T:357, killed by a giant spider 09:35 -!- VaderFLAG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36 it's not too bad considering how cheap it is 09:36 <{Demo}2> thats the scary part 09:37 <{Demo}2> like that might actually be lead based paint 09:37 hahaha 09:55 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +3 godhands", on T:35684 09:57 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed Father Dagon, on T:50838 09:57 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed the invisible Mother Hydra, on T:50840 10:04 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:04 <@bubbles> oh ballache cthulubro is awake 10:05 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Hea Inc Mal Neu) killed Great Cthulhu, on T:51083 10:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2786 10:08 <@FIQ> noo the devteam got rid of archonstorms 10:08 <@FIQ> boring 10:09 <{Demo}2> when 10:09 <@bubbles> Make chris remove them too!!! 10:09 <@FIQ> summon nasties can now only summon monsters of lower hit dice 10:09 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Grue, on T:36471 10:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 541 points, T:1747, killed by a homunculus, while sleeping 10:12 <@FIQ> aosdict: how can I give a custom AI usage description for https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Scroll_of_recall ? 10:12 huh? what's a "custom AI usage description" 10:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) destroyed lacca's ghost, the former Initiate, on T:3416 10:12 <@FIQ> maybe I should make a FIQHack/AI article describing the notable changes to fiqhack's monster AI 10:12 and why are you asking me about it? 10:13 <@FIQ> aosdict: scroll of recall is a fiqhack item, someone added the scroll template for it, which is fair, but it has a muse field 10:14 <@FIQ> except that in fiqhack, there's no concept of an "offensive", "defensive" or "misc" item 10:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Con Inc Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:41142 10:15 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 4422 points, T:3754, killed by a soldier ant 10:16 <@FIQ> ah for some reason I thought you were the one adding a monuse field to the template 10:16 <@FIQ> sorry 10:19 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Arc Hum Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:38569 10:20 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Con Inc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:41416 10:21 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:3631 10:22 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Mal Neu) entered a temple, on T:3735 10:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Con Inc Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:41520 10:24 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:1606 10:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Con Inc Fem Cha) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:41558 10:27 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:28 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Cha) averted death, on T:37811 10:31 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 10:31 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 10:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) destroyed ssnufd's ghost, the former Acolyte, on T:2751 10:33 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Investigator, on T:4252 10:36 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:4673 10:36 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) entered a temple, on T:4705 10:43 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +3 bodyglove", on T:38031 10:43 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 10:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 10:43 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:1553 10:45 [hdf-eu] [nh370] spontiff (Hea Gno Mal Neu) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:4932 10:48 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) destroyed ripuli's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:1877 10:48 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:4586 10:48 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] smzp (Pir Elf Mal Cha) entered the adventure town for the first time, on T:1114 10:50 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 10:54 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 4131 points, T:6881, killed by an owlbear 10:54 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Cha) killed Father Dagon, on T:38380 10:56 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:56 . 10:56 bug_sniper: Message from K2 at 2020-08-16 09:23 EDT: 1) i dont know, not sure you can? 2) no there isnt 10:58 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:59 . 10:59 tfw not popular enough for tells 11:00 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Con Inc Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:42630 11:05 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10 [hdf-us] [fh] bugsniper (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 16740 points, T:1314, killed by a succubus 11:11 !tell amateurhour here's a tell 11:11 amateurhour shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, bug_sniper. 11:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Con Inc Fem Cha) destroyed Famine, on T:42788 11:13 !tell amateurhour please respond by messenger pigeon 11:13 amateurhour shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, aosdict. 11:14 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] smzp (Pir Elf Mal Cha) killed the Archipelago Ancient, on T:3465 11:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Con Inc Fem Cha) destroyed Pestilence, on T:42812 11:15 !messengerpigeon aosdict Dearest aosdict, I hope this letter reaches you well. When will the yanis page be updated? Loving regards, amateurhour 11:15 amateurhour: Message from bug_sniper at 2020-08-16 11:11 EDT: here's a tell 11:15 amateurhour: Message from aosdict at 2020-08-16 11:13 EDT: please respond by messenger pigeon 11:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Con Inc Fem Cha), 5765638 points, T:42826, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/Demo/dnethack/dumplog/1597497407.dnh.txt 11:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Ana And Fem Neu), 31985 points, T:8276, killed by a uranium imp 11:15 gratz {Demo}2 11:16 <{Demo}2> the trick rayuko pair was fun 11:16 LarienTelrunya: where's the luckstone meant to be on this floor? :S 11:16 amateurhour: uhh nowhere I think? why would there be a luckstone 11:16 because next floor is Ruggos 11:17 ah, then you seem to have hit the 5% or so chance for mines end to not generate 11:17 ... 11:17 lol 11:17 amateurhour: maybe I'll do some work on it today after I push out like forty xnh commits 11:17 I wish there was a message or something to explain that I've been shafted by rng 11:17 also just fwiw, minetown might also not generate sometimes 11:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Ana And Fem Neu), 165 points, T:904, killed by a sewer rat 11:18 there is no message if the dungeon.def's randomized chance to have a special level not exist is triggered; in vanilla you e.g. also don't get notified if the bigroom doesn't generate 11:19 [hdf-eu] [evil] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:3723 11:19 anyway I'm afk for a while now 11:19 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Cha) killed Mother Hydra, on T:39161 11:20 [hdf-eu] [nh343] myn (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 7 daggers named Simt on an altar, on T:5742 11:23 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:7276 11:25 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 11:25 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Ang Mal Law) killed Ruggo the Gnome King, on T:4495 11:27 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 11:27 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 11:27 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 11:28 What monster do you want to genocide? [type the name] tai chi girl 11:28 alas, cannot geno 11:32 @le?tai chi girl 11:32 tai chi girl (@) | Lvl: 16 | Diff: 18 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 5 | Attacks: 2d8 weapon physical, 2d8 kick physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: omnivore, conceals, infravisible 11:32 what's so bad about that 11:32 good question aosdict 11:33 when you examine them they seem all innocent 11:33 but they have a weapon that paralyses you and you get to watch as your hp slowly depletes till death 11:33 despite having -25ac 11:34 source: happened to me 11:36 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:36 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) attained the rank of Student of Stones, on T:8653 11:41 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) killed Hmnyw-Pharaoh, on T:39783 11:41 [hdf-us] [spl] ripuli (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) made his first wish - "+2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:2589 11:42 @le?tai chi girl 11:42 tai chi girl (@) | Lvl: 16 | Diff: 18 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 5 | Attacks: 2d8 weapon physical, 2d8 kick physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: omnivore, conceals, infravisible 11:42 yeah, not part of monst.c appearantly 11:45 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 11:49 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 small double lightsaber", on T:40043 11:49 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] smzp (Pir Elf Mal Cha) completed Lokoban, on T:7128 11:53 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:55 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] smzp (Pir Elf Mal Cha) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:7562 11:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Elf-Ran Elf Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1433 11:57 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon her by Huan Ti, on T:11254 11:58 [hdf-us] [ndnh] phaperplane2 (Acu Hum Mal Law) killed Shiro, on T:19128 12:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 4437 points, T:1979, killed by a gnome lady 12:03 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +5 filth-crusted helping hand", on T:40583 12:05 Amy are there other stones which can't be kicked other than loadstones? 12:08 -!- telegarn has joined #hardfought 12:08 back! amateurhour: yes, e.g. the loadboulder (which is like a loadstone, but weighs as much as a boulder and can really screw you up) 12:09 ah right, that explains it 12:09 I wish we could identify things on the ground 12:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Bin Hum Mal Non) completed Sokoban, on T:11988 12:09 you don't want to pick up a loadboulder :P 12:09 heh, that would be way too easy 12:09 you can however reverse identify loadboulders 12:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) was given the Armor of Khazad-dum, on T:3094 12:12 gah, apparently my putty has frozen again, you're still playing right? 12:12 oh it unfroze 12:15 I was idle 12:17 made a dog's dinner of this puzzle lol, skipping 12:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) was given the Blade Singer's Saber, on T:5595 12:19 <{Demo}2> not again 12:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2502 12:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Bin Hum Mal Non) killed Cerberus, on T:13063 12:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:629 12:24 <@bubbles> Again! 12:24 <@bubbles> Did you ascend the other one demo? 12:25 <{Demo}2> yeah, https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/Demo/dnethack/dumplog/1597497407.dnh.txt 12:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Ana Inc Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:10916 12:25 <@bubbles> felon 12:25 <@bubbles> gj 12:25 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:26 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 12:26 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 12:26 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 12:26 does ur pasta contain egg Amy 12:26 amateurhour: sometimes, in the form of egg noodles; why? 12:26 does ur pasta in slex also contain egg 12:27 ...how would I know 12:27 idk I hoped you remembered whether it was vegan from adding it to the game lol 12:27 source diving it is 12:28 <@bubbles> just don't be vegan! 12:28 <@bubbles> bubbles the solutionfinder šŸ˜Ž 12:28 lol, usually I eat pasta bolognese, but lately it's pasta tonno 12:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Bin Hum Mal Non) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:13535 12:30 hm, where is the vegatarian/vegan thing actually defined 12:31 vegetarian maybe whether it's MT_VEGGY or MT_FLESH in objects.c, vegan possibly in eat.c somewhere? I dunno, I never care about that, not even when playing a monk or topmodel :P 12:32 wizmoded: the "pasta" item is actually vegan in-game 12:32 thankfully my IRL pasta is not, though :D 12:32 <{Demo}2> if I was an animal I'd be OK of I was eaten 12:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3101 12:33 you are such an animal Demo 12:33 <{Demo}2> no, I'm a software program 12:33 aren't all humans animals? 12:33 I mean, we're certainly no bacteria or plants... :P 12:34 <@bubbles> so you love dat shield now demo? 12:34 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:14866 12:35 <@bubbles> it is an interesting question - if they could synthesize artificial meat that was otherwise indistinguishable from human 12:35 <@bubbles> would you eat it? 12:35 <@bubbles> (I would) 12:35 yes 12:35 -!- stenno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35 <@bubbles> A surprisingly large number of people say no to that 12:35 * LarienTelrunya would never knowingly eat some slurry that looks like meat but isn't meat 12:35 <@bubbles> but good to know you're on the correct side ahour! 12:36 <@bubbles> Looks like, feels like, tastes like 12:36 <@bubbles> chemically identical amy 12:36 Amy the question says otherwise indistinguishable 12:36 lol, can't, it's not the same no matter how much one pretends it were 12:37 <{Demo}2> the shield was useful for fire plane 12:38 <@bubbles> it is supririsngly useful 12:38 <@bubbles> wish there were tons more things that were invokes or temporary-but-reusable in general 12:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Ana Inc Mal Neu) averted death, on T:11911 12:45 here in slashem we call those "techniques" :P 12:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Excursionist, on T:4268 12:47 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) destroyed MHL's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:16169 12:48 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Fem Neu), 3487200 points, T:40987, crushed to death by a collapsing drawbridge 12:51 rip 12:51 the classic drawbridge of doom 12:53 <@riker> !lastgame microlance 12:53 @riker: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/m/microlance/dnethack/dumplog/1597544203.dnh.txt 12:54 Amy the final sokoban room was a shop 12:54 with no usual places for the prize to hide outside of the room 12:54 yes, that can happen, did the shk try to sell the prize? 12:54 a dragon brought it to me 12:54 ah, nice 12:55 just curious, the map doesn't have any of the cubbyholes for prizes 12:55 so is this a real soko floor, or is it because of specialist 12:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed +3 grayswandir", on T:16705 12:56 well this one isn't more or less "real" than the others, just a sokoban level that doesn't have cubbyholes (but still has a prize) 12:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2456 points, T:5217, killed by a Green-elf, while sleeping 12:58 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 309 points, T:1450, killed by a giant bat 12:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:33807 13:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) has already received their quest via sticky-note, on T:4292 13:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) was given Aegis, on T:9470 13:03 <{Demo}2> thanks dwarf god 13:04 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] smzp (Pir Elf Mal Cha) was given their Quest, on T:14721 13:04 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 96 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:34488 13:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) was given Peace Keeper, on T:11867 13:09 <{Demo}2> lol pee keister 13:10 <{Demo}2> gift passes 13:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:12251 13:13 LarienTelrunya: does slex have a way to "veganize" meat products? like, boom, this corpse is now safe to eat as vegan? 13:13 lol 13:13 that would be pretty neat tbh 13:14 monk technique perhaps? 13:14 swiggity swooty u are now fruity 13:15 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Kni Hlf Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2138 13:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) genocided class R, on T:35410 13:16 !lastgame Winsalot 13:16 FIQ: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/w/winsalot/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-03-08%2013%3A21%3A02%2C%20Mourne-Pri-Hum-Mal-Cha%2C%20died.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/w/winsalot/evilhack/dumplog/1591106243.evil.html 13:17 I see, fair enough 13:18 <{Demo}2> khors mines end! 13:22 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] smzp (Pir Elf Mal Cha), 125794 points, T:15942, killed by a wand 13:25 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2845 13:26 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 3530 points, T:3009, killed by an ape 13:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) was given Sky Render, on T:15050 13:28 <{Demo}2> cringe 13:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Mal Law) has been given Excalibur, and now enjoys supreme executive power, on T:6060 13:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Arc Hum Mal Law), 267 points, T:2421, killed by a giant spider 13:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Ana And Fem Neu), 96257 points, T:6602, killed by a Mordor orc elite, while sleeping 13:32 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:20368 13:37 -!- Disruptor has joined #hardfought 13:38 hey, who can help me restore a dnhetack game that crashed? K2? Tangles? 13:38 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1537 13:38 heya Disruptor 13:38 dnh? 13:38 yep 13:38 which server? 13:38 US 13:39 ok one sec 13:39 thans 13:39 *thanks 13:40 <{Demo}2> backtrace? 13:41 {Demo}2 yeah 13:41 Disruptor, game is recovered, but the nature of the crash, I had to restore from the last save 13:41 ffs 13:41 was from a couple hrs ago 13:41 yeah 13:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) had Frost Brand bestowed upon her by Huan Ti, on T:21690 13:41 I had an aweful feeling you would say that 13:41 better than nothing :/ 13:42 <{Demo}2> what the hell even happend, wow 13:42 I swear to god if I go back through sokoban and get stuck with a amulet instead of that bag I was rocking I'm going to lose my shit 13:42 :'( 13:42 first time in ages I've had a good solid two hours to relax, so of course it would crash and die 13:42 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 13:43 backtrace - https://termbin.com/sok1t 13:45 [hdf-us] [evil] telegarn (Sam Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming an Aleax, on T:42497 13:45 crashed in saving? 13:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] plaxcaster (Sam Hum Fem Law) destroyed Vis' ghost, the former Field Worker, on T:2846 13:47 not sure 13:48 never seen that particular backtrace before 13:48 "cant find o_id" is nightmare fuel, I remember having that kind of error during the early stages of slex development 13:51 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 2064 points, T:2773, killed by a giant ant 13:52 <@riker> damnit. going to bet that's a LS one 13:54 what's a miguc trap? 13:55 amateurhour: IIRC summons a monster that then gets a turn before you get another 13:55 @riker: LS = lost save? 13:55 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha) killed Ruggo the Gnome King, on T:10383 13:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] plaxcaster (Sam Hum Fem Law), 5010 points, T:3052, killed by a blast of frost 13:56 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 13:58 <{Demo}2> ls = lightsource 13:58 -!- j6p has joined #hardfought 14:01 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 859 points, T:1320, killed by a small mimic 14:05 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Kni Hlf Mal Law) was given Rhongomyniad, on T:10162 14:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 674 points, T:911, killed by a kitten, while praying 14:08 [hdf-us] [ndnh] phaperplane2 (Acu Hum Mal Law) killed Ulitharid, on T:31055 14:09 hmm, demolition gloves or gauntlets of fumbling... 14:10 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Kni Hlf Mal Law) was given Aegis, on T:10823 14:10 -!- stenno1 has joined #hardfought 14:11 i just had spaghetti carbonara and it was great 14:11 nice 14:12 <{Demo}2> damn nice im eating a philly cheese steak hot pocket and it is pretty gnar 14:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 421 points, T:1038, killed by a werejackal 14:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) wished for "magic marker", on T:45355 14:12 -!- maxlunar has joined #hardfought 14:13 amateurhour: i found your bones in slex lol 14:13 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha) killed the monk of amateurhour, the former Student of Stones, on T:10970 14:13 nice 14:13 if it was one of the recent games either the boots or the helm is +10 14:14 oooh 14:14 what killed me? 14:14 idk, it says one-shot brainless and the level is Ruggo Lair 14:14 with Castle layout :D 14:14 ah that one doesn't have a +10 item I think 14:14 p sure there's a magic marker though 14:14 you had frost horn 14:15 anyone know if a lit Holy Moonlight Sword trains two-handed? or does is still just show up as a long sword? 14:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Pri Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2941 14:16 <@riker> it is still long sword 14:16 <@riker> it uses long sword damage dice (boosted by +4 die size) as well 14:16 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 422 points, T:794, killed by a hobbit 14:17 thx 14:17 -!- Disruptor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Ana And Fem Neu), 54375 points, T:8237, killed by an invisible quinon 14:18 also you had binning kit... interesting thing, I may use it :D 14:19 just found the dumplog for those bones 14:19 chest has a scroll of consecration in 14:19 containers have their contents removed in bones levels :P 14:19 bleh 14:19 damn 14:20 also this demilich is unkillable 14:20 wtf 14:20 for that death I walked around the corner straight into a large brain eater 14:20 and started with 3 int iirc 14:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] plaxcaster (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:2246 14:20 i killed it, tinned with blessed tinning kit and got another int point :) 14:20 -!- Disruptor has joined #hardfought 14:20 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1042 14:20 ah you got a demilich near the bottom chest? 14:21 need a +4 weapon iirc 14:21 hey, LarienTelrunya, do you use a particular dev env for debugging work? 14:21 Disruptor: gdb 14:21 thanks 14:21 when playing locally, I always have gdb attached so that I can get a backtrace in the case of a segfault 14:22 do you ever use the address sanitizer? 14:22 I had some ideas for a patch I'd like to do, but I'm mostly a C# guy these days 14:22 uhh I guess I don't, because I don't know how to do that 14:22 been ages since I've had to debug a command line app like ethack 14:23 btw, why theres unstackable coins? BUC or types? 14:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] plaxcaster (Sam Hum Fem Law), 2356 points, T:2483, killed by a Green-elf 14:23 <@riker> you can get pretty fair with gdb/lldb and grepping the error msgs 14:23 <@riker> what's the patch aimed at disruptor? 14:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 cloak of the unheld one", on T:1228 14:24 haven't decided 14:24 usually it's whatever variant I've most recently fallen in love with ;-) 14:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Pri Elf Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:3275 14:24 <@riker> I meant like what do you want to change :p 14:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] bagun (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 6984 points, T:2485, killed by a giant ant 14:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Ana Inc Mal Neu) killed Axus, on T:13570 14:25 oh wanted to add some Jack Vance themed stuff 14:25 <@riker> ah 14:26 <@riker> there's already at least 1 reference in nh I think 14:27 not nearly enough :-) 14:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) wished for "Blessed ring of conflict", on T:45727 14:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Mon Hum Mal Law), 2324 points, T:3772, killed by a dingo 14:35 [hdf-us] [evil] telegarn (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Ashikaga Takauji, on T:43995 14:35 [hdf-us] [evil] telegarn (Sam Hum Mal Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:43999 14:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] bagun (Nob Hum Mal Neu), 67 points, T:230, killed by a riding accident 14:36 [hdf-us] [evil] toon (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 612 points, T:1719, killed by a gnome zombie 14:38 LarienTelrunya: is it ok for monster that leaves no corpse to leave it anyway? 14:38 maxlunar: depends, what monster was it and did it have the reviver egotype? 14:39 nope, it was "lol we invented another ghast" 14:40 ah, zombies and mummies are special-cased in some instances, i.e. flagged as nocorpse in monst.c but special-coded to leave specific other corpse types (vanilla behavior) 14:40 this fucking RNG 14:41 of course on my regenerated sokoban, I'm stuck with this worthless amulet of reflection 14:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 204 points, T:1203, killed by a coyote 14:42 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 11 points, T:42, killed by a fox 14:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:2788 14:43 [hdf-us] [evil] toon (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 281 points, T:1217, killed by a boulder 14:43 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Pri Elf Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3458 14:43 -!- Disruptor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44 anything different about fort ludios in slex? 14:44 croesus wearing water wings or anything like that? 14:44 lol, nothing in particular 14:44 he might have a little more HP because all bosses do in slex 14:44 the grenades make it rather annoying by themselves 14:45 how I can remove corrosion? 14:46 like, the easiest ways besides scrolls 14:46 can you pay a shopkeeper to do it? 14:47 the enchant armor/weapon service does do it I think, but it costs a bunch of zorkmids 14:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Bin Hum Mal Non) completed Sokoban, on T:14046 14:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:6385 14:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) killed Cerberus, on T:23444 14:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 2256 points, T:3801, poisoned by a rotted glob of gray ooze 14:51 [hdf-us] [nh370] plaxcaster (Sam Hum Fem Law), 2458 points, T:2163, killed by a dwarf 14:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 547 points, T:882, killed by a gnome 14:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] plaxcaster (Val Dwa Fem Law), 418 points, T:876, killed by a small mimic 14:59 no livelog for killing croesus, but I did it 14:59 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:32996 14:59 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2621 14:59 how did you do that? maybe you didn't get credit for the kill for some reason 15:00 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2732 points, T:2658, killed by a rabid rat, while praying 15:01 I drowned him, as is tradition 15:01 he probably just warped to some random empty location, because harharhar :P 15:01 are you serious? I got the 'Croesus drowns' message 15:01 he probably levelported too amateurhour 15:01 yes, the message is the same, but monsters have 95% or so chance to simply relocate instead of drowning 15:01 same for lava 15:01 so when I asked 15:02 croesus wearing waterwings or anything like that? 15:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) has already received their quest via sticky-note, on T:7563 15:02 well that's not specific to croesus, and I'm rather positive you encountered that feature in an earlier run already; all monsters have that 15:02 he doesn't have water wings, he has the power of the computer being a cheater 15:02 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Kni Hlf Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +3 green dragon crescent blade", on T:13530 15:03 (unless the hero also teleports out of drowning 95% of the time, then it's fine) 15:03 well where's my 95% chance to simply relocate instead of drowning 15:03 lol 15:05 surprised ludios has any gold in this vault, the zoo's squares only had 1-10 gold on each 15:06 he's still alive, yeah 15:06 :| 15:07 just keep drowning him, you'll roll that nat 20 eventually 15:07 we tracked our natural 20s and natural 1s in a recent d&d campaign 15:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] plaxcaster (Val Dwa Fem Law) read a Discworld novel, on T:1268 15:07 I had the most natural 1s by far, and the least natural 20s 15:07 maybe I am cursed 15:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Ana And Fem Neu), 65143 points, T:8074, killed by an invisible parasitized embraced alider 15:08 swapped dice mid campaign with the guy with the (then) most natural 20s 15:08 same outcome after 15:08 hmm, you'll need more than a scroll of remove curse to overcome that 15:10 -!- qt_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) became literate by engraving "xx", on T:3564 15:13 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Arc Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed mithril magic whistle named "RNG wouldn't give me one, I am fed up"", on T:39123 15:13 <@bubbles> what was teh distribution overall? 15:13 <@bubbles> for the d20 rolls? 15:13 <@bubbles> the* 15:14 <@bubbles> The first campaign I ever ran with my fam I TPK them in the second session šŸ˜¢ 15:14 <@bubbles> I was even fudging to try and stop it 15:15 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) attained the rank of Student of Waters, on T:35519 15:18 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) had Werebane bestowed upon her by Huan Ti, on T:35950 15:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) attained the rank of Thaumaturge, on T:3697 15:21 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Kni Hum Mal Law) read a Discworld novel, on T:20203 15:23 !whereis lacca 15:23 maxlunar: [hdf-eu] lacca [nh370]: (Hea Hum Fem Neu) T:66363 The Dungeons of Doom level: 24 15:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:4002 15:26 LarienTelrunya: what does 'Is special cursor being displayed?' mean? 15:26 amateurhour: I dunno, in what context did it say that? 15:26 uh I hit an enemy 15:27 probably that cursor which points to location of farlook for example 15:27 idk 15:27 amateurhour: if you answer no, you die 15:27 probabl 15:27 probably 15:27 what was the monster, a fake spore or something? 15:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] plaxcaster (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:3092 15:27 space monster 15:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) entered a temple, on T:4082 15:27 well, in any case it's a random fake message 15:27 @le?space monster 15:27 space monster (.) | Lvl: 8 | Diff: 11 | Spd: 12 | Res: sleep acid | Confers: nothing | MR: 20 | Generates: special | AC: 6 | Attacks: 1d4 bite fear, 1d4 passive tickle, 1d1 gaze remove-light | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, flies, swims, phases, breathless, mindless, oviparous, vegan 15:28 there might be a loudspeaker on the level 15:28 uhhh, no plines 15:28 yeah, might be loudspeaker 15:28 <@bubbles> My dream is to run a dungeonofdoom campaign 15:28 [hdf-us] [ndnh] phaperplane2 (Acu Hum Mal Law), 311501 points, T:35260, killed by a droven bolt 15:28 haven't seen any other random messages (yet) 15:28 <@bubbles> Astral would be an epic backstab every man for himself (or for his god) 15:29 <@bubbles> But I dunno how gehenemon would be balanced, two demon lords without a long rest? šŸ¤” 15:29 think you're right about loudspeaker, got a message about not being proficient in heels 15:29 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) had Trollsbane bestowed upon her by Huan Ti, on T:36695 15:30 damn my putty window is frozen again! 15:30 delet windows 7 install linux 15:31 but I want to watch :( 15:31 oh lol you got another ludios on the stronghold 15:32 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 1936 points, T:3142, killed by a fire ant 15:32 [hdf-eu] [nh343] myn (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:12626 15:32 presumably not loaded with gold 15:32 i'm sitting on my win10, lazy to reboot to arch 15:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:46878 15:35 OH SHIT 15:35 he's in the water 15:36 <@bubbles> šŸ™‚ 15:36 363? 15:36 <@bubbles> cone/wand of cold 15:36 hdf offers 363? 15:36 <@bubbles> then dig 15:37 or are you finishing out a really old game 15:37 rld; thanks, so fire probably not gunna work, since it's a moat? 15:37 @bubbles you don't even need to dig 15:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:46892 15:37 rld is not a user :P 15:37 the book pops right out of ice 15:37 indeed! Just verified! I zapped cold and teh book popped out 15:38 <@bubbles> ah cool 15:38 <@bubbles> ice cool 15:38 <@bubbles> šŸ˜Ž 15:39 <@riker> bubbles. stop. 15:42 there is "discord" in discord 15:42 hail eris? 15:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 3142 points, T:4488, killed by an ape 15:43 <@bubbles> riker "somebody stop me" 15:43 ugh, forgot drowning doesn't work 15:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:47090 15:43 just dropped olog hai corpse in moat to stop it coming back 15:43 <@bubbles> (possibly the greatest film ever made) 15:43 why is this a thing 15:43 <@bubbles> olog shouldn't swim should they? 15:43 <@bubbles> I forget 15:44 in slex 95% of the time something drowns it just gets yeeted to another part of the level 15:44 except for the player of course 15:44 why would it be fair 15:44 I never said that it would be fair :P 15:44 doesn't make sense though 15:44 are they wearing underpants of drown protection? 15:44 high heels of teleport if in contact with water? 15:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Ana And Fem Neu), 82743 points, T:7549, fell into a pit 15:45 it's slex, it doesn't have to make sense, it just has to ensure that the player can't easily cheese their way through the game :P 15:45 <@bubbles> I don't think drowning trolls is cheating 15:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Ana Inc Mal Neu) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:14871 15:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 571 points, T:1335, killed by a dwarf 15:49 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Kni Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Knight, on T:20786 15:50 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Mon Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:39137 15:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:47318 15:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:47321 15:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Mon Hum Mal Law) consulted the Oracle, on T:3457 15:55 -!- telegarn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Mon Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Initiate, on T:3494 15:57 It seems that any smart strategy in slex that players come up with counts as "cheating" and must be punished. sense or no sense. 15:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] Piloband (Kni Hum Mal Law), 186 points, T:1270, died of starvation 15:59 maybe I just don't want my game to be too easy 16:01 its both easy and hard at same time 16:01 Schroedinger variant :D 16:02 I don't want to sound like I'm hating or anything, I'm obviously still playing 16:02 but there's a lot of counter intuitive bs that crops up 16:03 it's still worth trying if you've not played it though I would say 16:03 heh, you should have seen porkman and how much *he* bitched while he was playing 16:03 Amy, I'm curious: when someone manages to ascend against all odds, do you feel they have beaten you soemhow? 16:03 lol referring to things being nerfed after porkman's ascensions? 16:03 mobileuser: depends, if I watched their game and it seemed too easy then something obviously needs changing (and the same can also be the case if I manage to ascend myself) 16:03 [hdf-eu] [dyn] Baba Yaga (engelson) (Val Hum Fem Law), 645 points, T:2506, poisoned by a rotted gray ooze corpse 16:03 <{Demo}2> hey amy, why is the feetmaster role name spelled wrong? 16:04 LOL 16:04 generic metal is erosionproof? 16:04 yes 16:05 nice, now I know I can make weapons poisoned in toilets 16:06 I needed to remove arrows from my hand, which are rustable, and I decided to try dipping them into toilet, which was the only source of water on the level 16:06 it worked, and also i saw they became poisoned. Used this to my advantage :D 16:08 yeah you can poison weapons that way, although the poison wears off quickly 16:08 if you can have a bit of advantage over monster, why not use it? 16:09 cheesing it with poison smh my head 16:10 poisoning weapons does have disadvantages; if monsters somehow get them (because e.g. they're ranged weapons and the monster picks them up) they can use them against you 16:10 and as a lawful you get an alignment penalty for using them 16:12 rust trap in vital position in sokoban! GRRRR 16:12 this is torture 16:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) entered the Planes, on T:48939 16:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] rancat (Mon Hum Mal Law) entered Sokoban, on T:4434 16:12 untrap it! 16:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:48942 16:13 should see the soko floors with extra boulders and rolling boulder traps 16:14 Amy... 16:14 ? 16:14 water pool. 16:14 and? untrap it! :P 16:14 or do you mean the actual terrain feature? 16:14 actual terrain feature 16:14 are you sure it's not a mimic? try to attack it 16:15 guess u gotta take a luck penalty #worksasintended #getrekt 16:15 :P 16:15 i untrapped the rust trap 16:15 unless you got a soko floor with an extra boulder knocking about 16:15 well, lets hope I have enough boldohhhhrs 16:15 also even if it's really a water square, you still have enough boulders and even if THAT was not the case, you have pits on this level so you don't really need to solve the floor 16:15 wait what 16:15 <@bubbles> wait there is a feetmaster role???? 16:15 <@bubbles> wtf amy 16:16 nvm 16:16 lol 16:16 <@bubbles> you are euro, it should be the 30cmmaster role 16:16 <@bubbles> šŸ˜• 16:16 it's a fountain, i'm dummy 16:16 lul 16:16 @bubbles: the role is actually called "feat master" 16:16 <@bubbles> stop teasing me šŸ˜¦ 16:16 leave it as feetmaster lol 16:16 <@bubbles> We just had a discussion about how much I love feats 16:16 bhhahaha 16:16 <@bubbles> and how they are the most fun part of dnd/pf 16:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 240 points, T:531, killed by a fox 16:21 LarienTelrunya: what does adjacent trap do? 16:21 maxlunar: if you're standing on a square adjacent to it that does not have a trap yet, it now has a random one :D 16:21 lol 16:22 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Arc Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed +7 silver atlatl of frost named "will this work?"", on T:39124 16:22 i have a moloch temple sokoban level which walls are water tunnels 16:22 and stairs in the treasure room 16:24 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 858 points, T:2622, killed by a pony 16:27 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) averted death, on T:2020 16:28 hmm 16:29 is there a changelog for unnethack 6.0.0? 16:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "drum of earthquake", on T:47696 16:30 hmmm conflict or no on ascension, i'm thinking conflict 16:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Bin Hum Mal Non) killed Cerberus, on T:19761 16:31 what hybrids races you got if any maxlunar? 16:31 none, i dont use hybrids 16:31 iirc they make the starting stats lower 16:31 thats why I dont 16:31 maxlunar: it used to be like that but no longer is, because that was really stupid 16:32 anyway I cannot think of any hybrid with no harmful/annoying downsides 16:32 if you want to suggest me something... 16:32 bossrusher :P 16:32 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha), 120519 points, T:15529, killed by a monster (invisible priest of Moloch), while paralyzed by a monster spell 16:32 fucking 16:32 hmm, paralysis again 16:33 fucking moloch shrine in sokoban 16:33 maxlunar specialist and x-race for hybrids are neato 16:33 mom, can we have a normal sokoban? 16:33 no, we have sokoban at home 16:33 sokoban at home: 16:33 I like sokosolver as well for hybrid race but I might be entirely alone in that 16:34 [hdf-us] [slshm] Piloband (Nec Vam Mal Cha), 629 points, T:1374, died of starvation 16:34 [hdf-us] [xnh] Twelve (Val Hum Fem Law), 1094 points, T:2233, killed by a dingo, while dragging an iron ball 16:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] winny (Val Dwa Mal Law) killed Famine, on T:49253 16:36 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Investigator, on T:4064 16:37 <@bubbles> NO MORE SOKOBAN 16:37 <@bubbles> the only good sokoban is lolkoban 16:37 good sokoban is misnomer 16:38 if you're talking about ndnh, I think it's called lokoban 16:38 maxlunar: sokosolver! 16:39 i'm playing as spirit, nty 16:39 <@bubbles> that's what I said fiq, but with less good spelling 16:39 maxlunar consider both specialist and x-race 16:39 for maximum epic 16:39 I think i'll pick mazewalker 16:40 mazewalk is a function in the NH code 16:40 that sounds horrid 16:40 which has almost nothing to do with mazes 16:40 yaaaaaay mazewalker! 16:40 nothing but mazes, even with intrinsic phasing that sounds hellish 16:40 oh wait no I'm thinking of "mkmaze" 16:40 back in the day I could have ascended a mazewalker topmodel but splatted on the way up with the amulet :( 16:40 which doesn't make mazes at all 16:40 but is the main "make special level" function 16:41 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:4645 16:41 mazewalk is a special level command that does, in fact, generate mazes 16:41 'and they need to follow the "anorexia conduct" or they will suffer from negative effects" 16:41 what is that 16:42 be constantly hugry I guess? 16:42 how do I add hybrid to rc? LarienTelrunya 16:42 OPTIONS=hybridmazewalker,hybridbossrusher 16:42 amateurhour: bad effects whenever they eat meat or eat while satiated, IIRC 16:42 the curses UI has no idea about hybrid races 16:42 gotta add that no random race thing as well 16:43 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 16:43 wait, I can choose multiple hybrids? 16:43 yes 16:43 <@riker> yep 16:43 you can choose all of them at once I think 16:43 <@riker> it'll keep decreasing your stats per hybrid race iirc 16:43 @riker LarienTelrunya mentioned removing that 16:44 Amy said it's removed 16:44 <@riker> oh really? huh 16:44 i'll stay on mazewalker though 16:44 <@riker> neato 16:44 @riker: it no longer does that, because that was really stupid 16:44 LarienTelrunya: what happens if you have a hybrid mazewalker and sokosolver 16:44 and yes of course you can have several hybrid races 16:44 <@riker> i remember always tossing hybrid heretic on 16:44 uh... first level isnt maze? 16:44 FIQ: then 50% of levels will be mazes and 50% will be sokoban, randomly 16:44 <@riker> since it has like no effect for a human race other than letting you pray in hell 16:44 first level always unchanged maxlunar 16:44 maxlunar: first level is grace period 16:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:5071 16:44 what does heretic do 16:44 @riker: doesn't do that if you pick it as hybrid, because that would be too easy, having a hybrid race that actually has BENEFITS :P everyone would be that hybrid race then 16:45 <@riker> oh boo 16:45 <@riker> fiq: human but you can pray in hell 16:45 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) entered a temple, on T:5133 16:45 <@riker> amy what's the intended usage of hybrid races? 16:45 what does it do as hybrid 16:45 <@riker> apparently nothing but I thought it did that :/ 16:45 it randomizes the names of the gods 16:45 @riker challenge runs I'd guess 16:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 573 points, T:1370, killed by a kobold lord, while fainted from lack of food 16:45 lol riker. as if I would make a hybridable race that does absolutely nothing 16:45 wait, so I dont have digestion attack? 16:46 no, only if you pick mazewalker as main race of course 16:46 ah 16:46 damn 16:46 guys please stop thinking there were any easy obvious benefits from having a hybrid race :P 16:46 ^w^w^w^w 16:46 <@riker> lol 16:47 i didnt used them before anyway 16:47 does the mazes have minotaurs in them 16:47 lul 16:47 FIQ: of course not, I thought of that 16:47 if not, mazewalker is technically beneficial 16:47 well, at least not if they wouldn't be in depth 16:47 back to not using a hybrid. 16:47 just that mazes are so horrible that it's not worth it 16:47 with only mazes, you cannot be surrounded 16:48 which is helpful especially for casters 16:48 tunneling monsters exist though 16:49 maxlunar: seriously try specialist111 16:50 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha), 12598 points, T:1014, quit 16:53 LOL 16:53 the +8 sling named Intelligent Pope (weapon in hand) 16:53 wow 16:54 clerics have high Wis, not Int 16:54 and Gladius on first level too 16:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Pri Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:3077 16:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Pri Hum Mal Cha) attained the rank of Adept, on T:3091 16:55 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Kni Hlf Mal Law) killed Ixoth, on T:21013 16:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:3989 16:56 I guess I'll mark this game as good, because of Gladius. 16:56 and monster that dropped additional cure scroll 16:56 lol you and your tendency to throw away games where you don't find anything good on the first three levels :P 16:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Pri Hum Mal Cha) destroyed Vis' ghost, the former Field Worker, on T:3261 16:57 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Kni Hlf Mal Law) was given their Quest, on T:21156 16:57 LarienTelrunya: this is my playstyle. I'm having fun 16:58 <@riker> what? you play games to have fun? lol 16:58 no fun allowed here 16:58 I tried unh today, sick of accidental crossaligned unicorns hopping out of corner and killing you in a single turn. Maybe I'm unlucky 16:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Pri Hum Mal Cha) entered a shop, on T:3326 16:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Pri Hum Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:3347 16:59 as that is my local installation, it might be all the same bones, so I can remove the bones file 17:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Tou Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Vis' ghost, the former Field Worker, on T:4450 17:04 LarienTelrunya: is this sling enchants itself as it was a enchant weapon scroll or it just adds enchantment value through all checks? I need to know whether I could possibly enchant it over +8 17:04 err what, I don't know what that is supposed to mean... anyway, it's over +5 already, so it can fail 17:04 since it's an artifact, that would reset it to +0 (in vanilla it would be destroyed upon a failed enchantment) 17:05 this sling increases or decreases its enchantment when trap is triggered 17:05 thats why I'm asking 17:05 oh wait, you mean the specific effect of the artifact? well that can obviously not cause anything bad 17:05 I dont want to use any scrolls on it 17:05 why would I make it so that *that* worked like enchant weapon??? 17:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 106 points, T:252, killed by a jackal 17:06 oh, so it would go way beyond the +8 if i'm lucky? wew 17:06 so yeah, it just adds (or reduces) enchantment value with no additional check 17:06 first time I would probably use a sling 17:06 lol... 17:06 highest it can reach that way is +10, lowest is -20 17:06 <@riker> does it just go up/down by +1 each time? 17:07 oh. 17:07 <@riker> yep it does 17:07 so it's almost at it's full potential 17:07 yay you actually looked at the source :) 17:07 anyway, tomorrow I have a 12-hour shift so I need to absolutely go to sleep now; see you guys! 17:07 where is the falling rock traps? 17:07 :D 17:07 <@riker> uncursed, 50/50 to go up/down. blessed, has an additional 25% chance to go up regardless. so not sure what odds that makes it? 17:07 <@riker> cursed, 25% chance to go down 17:07 <@riker> (on top of the 50/50) 17:08 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 17:08 @le?banpei-kun 17:08 Banpei-kun (') | Lvl: 28 | Diff: 32 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison petrification drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 80 | Generates: special | AC: 0 | Attacks: 6d10 weapon physical, 5d8 breath shock | Alignment: 0 | Flags: breathless, mindless, thick hide, vegan 17:08 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 94 points, T:161, killed by a bolt of fire 17:09 lol, i found a web 17:09 heheheheh 17:09 +10 sling 17:09 twice in a row 17:10 <@riker> go bludgeon things with it 17:10 i had a bow in a starting inventory, but seems like I wouldnt ever use it 17:11 I need to find a sling ammo, or flints 17:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Tou Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Excursionist, on T:4719 17:13 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Arc Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed +2 dragonhide T-shirt of decay", on T:39440 17:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) was given their Quest, on T:30863 17:15 what does rmb loss do... 17:16 I wonder 17:16 lots of annoying stuff 17:16 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Arc Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed +2 yellow dragon scale mail", on T:39452 17:16 [hdf-eu] [nh13d] FIQ (Val Fem), 2041 points, T:2637, orc 17:16 can't farlook, lots of stuff becomes invisible 17:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] Piloband (Pri Hlf Fem Neu), 809 points, T:1431, killed by a grid bug, while fainted from lack of food 17:16 >FIQ, orc 17:16 dungeon features like stairs and stuff 17:16 what? 17:16 maxlunar: 1.3d is like that 17:17 doesn't do "killed by" formatting 17:17 lul 17:17 what does it say if you won 17:18 no idea 17:20 I've always been curious of what astral used to look like before the planes existed 17:20 that would be in 3.0 I think 17:20 iirc 3.1 introduced branches 17:21 hmm 17:21 3.0 is sort of a limbo between 1.3d and "modern" NetHack starting at 3.1, in that it has most UI elements of modern versions, but retain the same dungeon structure 1.x had 17:22 allthough I find it a bit pelicular that restructuring the entire dungeon introducing branches was considered a "minor" change 17:24 let's get nethack onto semantic versioning 17:25 the releases after 3.4.3 would have been 4.0.0, 4.1.0, 4.2.0, 4.3.0, then 4.3.1, 4.3.2, 4.3.3, before 5.0.0-dev 17:25 aosdict: I've considered changing fiqhack to have a yearly release cycle after Junethack (basically using junethack as beta test) 17:25 and naming them after the year 17:25 if only we didn't have those evil variant devs stealing the version numbers huh? :^) 17:26 * aosdict makes nethack5 17:26 amateurhour: once for variant devs stealing version numbers, once for leakage of source code in the death throes of the cathedral model 17:27 iirc there was a rather significant period after 3.6 that was still closed 17:27 only opening up around 3.6.2ish 17:27 still death throes 17:28 I wonder if vanilla having genetic engineers now make it significantly easier to get rid of the Riders 17:28 since their attack completely ignores monMR 17:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) killed the Watcher in the Water, on T:31267 17:29 FIQ: in wizmode, pestilence is resisting 17:30 hmm so different from SLASH'EM's then 17:30 no 17:31 oh I see 17:31 also am I spying a symmetric monster attack routine in vanilla 17:31 all poly attacks call one singular function in mhitm 17:31 nice 17:32 I've been using "xhity-compatible" to refer to them 17:33 fair 17:33 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33 -!- aoei has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:34 allthough I'd argue that 100% of the applicable code should use a common codepath so things can eventually transistion into using it completely 17:34 instead of 90% 17:34 basically, something like this: case AD_FIRE: case AD_COLD: ... mhitm_new(agr, def, ...) 17:35 so that eventually, one can just remove the old one alltogether without modifying the new one at all 17:36 classified under "things I'd do if the devteam showed interest in taking it but don't expect them to so it's not worth the effort" 17:37 K2, where did your zombies learn to open doors from? 17:37 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:37 the same place where fiqhack soldiers became skilled with wands 17:41 [hdf-us] [evil] bugsniper (Val Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3118 17:45 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha) killed the assassin of MaxLunar, the former Killer, on T:4304 17:46 tough guy 17:46 had to waste 2 disintegration charges on wand 17:52 [hdf-us] [evil] bugsniper (Val Hum Fem Neu), 4691 points, T:4444, quit 18:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:762 18:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (Dnb-Nob Dwa Fem Law) killed Durin's Bane, on T:32717 18:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Bin Hum Mal Non) was given their Quest, on T:27663 18:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Pri Hum Mal Cha) killed the Oracle, on T:8723 18:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 137 points, T:337, killed by a large mimic, while reading a book 18:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Pri Hum Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:9499 18:18 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping an uncursed sack containing 16 items on an altar, on T:3041 18:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Tou Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:5437 18:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Arc Hum Mal Neu) defeated Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:39871 18:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:3855 18:23 gg mobileuser 18:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2860 points, T:5447, killed by a bolt of cold 18:25 -!- captain42 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26 thx rebatela :-) 18:30 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 18:46 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "Lilje", on T:5518 18:50 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 18:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 premium heart", on T:8394 19:01 hmm interesting, nao no longer provides 3.4.3-nao 19:02 hasn't for a while 19:02 I almost never visit that server 19:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) has already received their quest via sticky-note, on T:8672 19:02 since it's slower for me 19:02 3.4.3-nao can now only be played on acehack.de 19:02 I wish all servers would drop 3.4.3. then all the people who complain about how 3.6+ sucks will go offline and not be annoying. 19:02 FIQ: uhh, hardfought? 19:03 hardfought hosts 3.4.3-hdf 19:03 :P 19:03 that's 3.4.3 nao with like one extra patch 19:03 much worse curses interface 19:03 also no autoopen of doors 19:05 aosdict: 3.4.3 is still the baseline for several maintained variants though 19:05 so even if vanilla 3.4.3 disappeared, its legacy would still hold 19:06 I legitimately consider 3.4.3 superior to 3.6.0 and arguably other of the early 3.6.x versions 19:06 but more recent ones and 3.7 is superior to it 19:07 ok, let me rephrase: 3.4.3-nao|hdf is superior to early 3.6 versions 19:07 I do not miss vanilla 3.4.3 19:07 I resorted to InterHack the few times I played devnull back when it was on vanilla 3.4.3 19:07 for statuscolors and suhc 19:07 *such 19:08 <{Demo}2> wow 19:08 <{Demo}2> ok amy 19:08 <{Demo}2> i am pro 343 nao its fun 19:09 aosdict: There's also still nao stuff I miss from vanilla 3.6+, but at this point its less about wacky balance changes and more configuration stuff 19:09 for instance I vastly prefer hilite_hidden_stairs over #terrain, and the ability to fully customize monster color sets is great 19:09 <{Demo}2> 343 ppl be like they made the game suk and then everyone else like lol u just cant play without elbereth noob and then they get mad cause u missing the point 19:10 but in general I'd rather play 3.7 than 3.4.3 at this point 19:10 I was actually going to port unnethack's monstercolor and submit a PR for it 19:10 (bhaak if you're working on this already let me know 19:10 oh! you should make it support bold+underline 19:10 which nao's doesn't do 19:10 that way I can mimic NH4 monster colors fully :P 19:11 nao's is based on just changing mons[].color so it's simple. bold+underline may be trickier 19:12 aosdict: you could look at what acehack did maybe 19:12 it has underline support but uses the old 3.4.3 display codd 19:12 *code 19:12 iirc it added a MG_ULINE special, similar to MG_PET which causes an inversion 19:15 I already did MG_PEACEFUL which does underline in xnh 19:15 I see 19:16 bold... I don't think bold will work, some terminals autoswitch bold to the bright color set 19:17 it was just for completeness' sake -- some terminal does have a distinction 19:17 similar to how menucolors allow bold 19:17 and reverse, blink 19:19 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 19:19 hi aoei 19:20 alloooo 19:23 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 19:23 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 19:24 Evenin 19:25 hiya 19:25 FIQ, it's too bloody hot :( 19:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:48033 19:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:48035 19:25 itā€™s so hot :( 19:26 the weather is awesome. hasn't climbed above 72F today 19:27 >:( 19:27 Me: I will play brogue in order to destress. Also me: Is terrible at brogue. 19:28 heya AntiGulp 19:28 Hi K2! 19:29 * K2 waves like Forrest Gump 19:29 Forrest Gump is the cutest 19:29 can you pull that off K2? :P 19:29 fuck yeah 19:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) stole 63 zorkmids worth of merchandise from Izchak's lighting store, on T:48044 19:34 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 6340 points, T:6746, killed by a troll 19:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:48052 19:36 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Mal Cha), 102545 points, T:16485, killed by a rocket 19:39 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha), 1825 points, T:423, quit 19:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed the high shaman of Moloch, on T:12386 19:42 <@Shadow Fountain> !pom 19:42 @Shadow Fountain: The moon is waning crescent; new moon in 1 day. 19:44 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 19:44 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 19:44 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha), 3179 points, T:1373, killed by a monster (Pustulence) 19:45 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha), 35 points, T:340, killed by strangulation 19:47 Discuss: The XP and copious items awarded for fighting monsters in Nethack stifles more creative play. 19:48 this depends on what you mean by "creative" 19:48 NetHack is at its best when you are defeating monsters, not just avoiding them; most of the mechanics don't really work in games where you run away 19:48 so, rewards for beating monsters are not necessarily a bad thing 19:49 one potential counterpoint here is that you don't get rewarded with XP or random drops when your pet kills things (but you still get the starting inventory drops, which are typically more useful), so pacifist play is somewhat awkward 19:49 but, pacifist games are entirely possible and recorded as such in the list of conducts 19:49 I donā€™t think that rewards for beating monsters is inherently bad, but I do sometimes question the extent to which NetHack rewards combat. 19:50 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha), 242 points, T:773, killed by a shotgun shell 19:50 it rewards it to less of an extent than most roguelikes do 19:51 [hdf-us] [slex] nabru (Ele Ill Fem Cha), 1157 points, T:704, killed by a monster (Kroo the Kobold King) 19:51 nothing obtained from combat is essential, and the character's progress for the game depends more on equipment (which mostly isn't found as random drops) and intrinsics (which don't always require killing monsters) rather than consumables or XP 19:51 maybe so, but im curious about this. what are the alternatives? or more to the point what alternatives could be introduced that are not already in place? 19:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Lungorthin, on T:14230 19:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:48139 19:53 <@bubbles> nh is a ddnd combt sim, non-combat is never a goal šŸ˜• 19:53 <@bubbles> don't think it needs to be 19:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:48141 19:54 bubbles: combat is a huge waste of time 19:54 <@bubbles> err, adnd, not ddnd 19:54 if it can be avoided 19:55 I don't really do or understand full pacifist play 19:55 ais523: counterpoint, consumables (paired with the willingness to use them) are the core of having interesting tactical gameplay 19:55 Iā€™ve been playing a lot of Brogue (no xp in general) and sil-q (fighting monsters is a relatively slow and generally quite dangerous way of gaining xp). Theyā€™re obviously very different games with different design goals, but they still make me think. In NetHack, because of death drops and a food clock that is extremely easy to mitigate, thereā€™s very little reason not to kill every monster you come across aside from boredom, un 19:55 you think it can endanger you (which by the endgame, almost nothing can). There often is nā€™t much decision-making involved in deciding on combat, especially in the late game. 19:55 but killing monsters when you don't have to is absurdly time-consuming 19:55 <@bubbles> possibly antigulp, I haven't played vanilla in a while 19:55 aosdict: I agree with this, but I think it acts against AntiGulp's point somewhat, in that the scope for creativity comes mostly from a) combat and b) TDTTOE reactions 19:55 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha), 2082 points, T:270, quit 19:56 (This is all me spitballing while on no sleep from moving, it may not make sense) 19:56 and b) is normally considered spoiler knowledge by this community, rather than creativity 19:56 as a side note, I preferred it when Brogue had XP, although removing it didn't hurt the game that much 19:56 <@bubbles> aosdict 100% agree on consumables 19:56 same 19:56 <@bubbles> but I think an excellent alternative is just re-usable skills with cooldowns 19:56 I've realised I've learned to use them more 19:56 gradually 19:56 NetHack doesn't handle cooldowns well 19:56 <@bubbles> which is why I love binder so much, 25turn cooldown on abilities makes everything so much more tactical 19:57 because it does not punish waiting very severely 19:57 ^ 19:57 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha), 2018 points, T:625, killed by a monster (water demon) 19:57 <@bubbles> I think it makes tense combt situations 19:57 <@bubbles> because you have the theoretical power if you play well to face stronger challenges 19:57 there are lots of clocks, but they are mostly avoidable; the most significant clock I'm aware of is the 80,000 turn spell memorisation clock 19:57 and that one doesn't kick in at all in most games, or for many characters! 19:57 <@bubbles> I'm talking stuff like "jester's mirth" 19:58 isn't that 20k 19:58 -!- maxlunar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58 <@bubbles> also spell memo is way under 80k? 19:58 but still, many games are below 20k 19:58 aoei: you can read a spellbook 4 times 19:58 ohhh 19:58 I see 19:58 The food clock is interesting, because it appears to be extremely harsh for new players, but with experience itā€™s rendered almost moot. 19:58 <@bubbles> but then you have to stash etc 19:58 AntiGulp, play vegan atheist 19:58 <@bubbles> antigulp then you play something like incantifier, convict, or vampire 19:58 but even then it's only difficult in early game 19:58 <@bubbles> or conduct based 19:58 AntiGulp: actually, this is mostly a function of the food clock actually being tighter in the early game than the late game 19:58 and beginners don't get past the early game 19:58 fair points 19:58 so the food clock is genuinely more pressing for them 19:59 Play a game that doesn't break any conducts (I don't even know if that's possible) 19:59 <@Sig> I like the food clock as an early game reason to get your ass in gear. 19:59 <@bubbles> sig agreed 19:59 <@bubbles> it also differentiates roles 19:59 <@bubbles> which leads to variety in playing 19:59 but does the food clock actually change, or do you just mean food becomes extremely plentiful later? 19:59 <@bubbles> which leads to more fun 19:59 nabru: in 3.4.3, it's long been known to be possible in theory, yet hasn't been done without cheating 19:59 <@Sig> I would spend a lot of time at early altars if I didnā€™t have to eat. 19:59 <@bubbles> but yeah plenty of variants have done short-turn cooldowns very well 19:59 partly because it is soul-crushingly tedious and a single mistake can easily ruin the run (also, some strategies that have been devised for it are somewhat luck-based) 20:00 besides a food clock, add a toilet clock 20:00 :D 20:00 lol 20:00 <@bubbles> heck slashem has had #technique for tons 20:00 ais523: thoughts on tightening the food clock in later game by 1) not guaranteeing large corpse drops 2) sharply cutting the nutrition provided by corpses (not affecting intrinsics)? 20:00 there was one player who got about 3 or 4 different 12-conduct games past the early game, and then just left them all saved because they were too scared to continue 20:00 <@bubbles> aosdict would it increase fun? 20:00 <@Sig> You can use the toilet wherever but if you run out of toilet paper you start taking damage 20:00 aosdict: I agree with tightening the food clock, I am not convinced that that is the best way to do it 20:01 my first thought was to increase the nutrition burn rate in the late game in some way that isn't entirely stupid 20:01 <@bubbles> but wy 20:01 <@bubbles> why* 20:01 nerf corpse nutrition I think is a good idea 20:01 but maybe also make it necessary to prepare the corpses 20:01 cooking 20:01 Corpse drop chance down? 20:01 <@bubbles> meh 20:01 perhaps tying it to total inventory weight would be a start, that tends to be naturally higher for most players in the lategame 20:01 aoei: no, cooking complicates the game and becomes a chore 20:01 <@bubbles> (fwiw in gehenom in dnh there are NO corpses) 20:01 aosdict, so eat rations or play vegan 20:01 at present, in the late game, you can entirely ignore corpses or entirely ignore permafood, either is trivial 20:02 <@bubbles> and food is not an issue 20:02 ignoring both at once is somewhat difficult, of course 20:02 make it more costly to eat corpses 20:02 <@Sig> Sacfests are enough of a pain in the ass, please donā€™t change the corpse droprate, lol 20:02 <@bubbles> slow digestion shows nutrition is not fun 20:02 <@bubbles> it is a shit pointless ring but tons of people use it because nutrition is a lame mechanic 20:02 <@bubbles> it would just force you to slow down EVEN MORE 20:02 <@bubbles> (if nutrition gain/loss was nerfed) 20:02 sacfests are a boring waste of time anyway Sig 20:03 <@Sig> Add salmonella as a status effect 20:03 I'm fine with letting players use a ring slot to ignore nutrition mechanics if they want to 20:03 ais523: total inv weight doesn't tend to increase gradually as the game progresses, it increases sharply to carrycap early on, raises gradually as the player maxes out Str/Con, and then stops 20:03 oohā€¦ what if gaining intrinsics increased your nutrition drain weight? 20:03 <@bubbles> then getting crowned is even lamer 20:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Kni Hum Mal Law) destroyed plaxcaster's ghost, the former Kunoichi, on T:7071 20:03 * drain rate 20:03 <@bubbles> so now you have ot introduce intrinsic and intrinsic-but-no-nbutri-drain 20:04 I feel like getting crowned isn't really that costly to most games 20:04 so I'd be cool with it costing more 20:04 the debate over getting crowned is hilarious, some people think it's really good and some people think it's really bad 20:04 I don't like giving players the ability to ignore nutrition mechanics because I don't believe the game should let you spin your wheels indefinitely and make no progress 20:04 aosdict, agreed 20:04 ^ 20:04 aosdict: I think there should be multiple clocks, some of which are easier to ignore than others 20:04 because that basically means "farming" 20:04 <@bubbles> but you can do it without slow dig 20:04 <@bubbles> why should there be a clock...... 20:04 Iā€™m also a big fan of multiple clocks 20:04 <@bubbles> it is a leftover from rogue 20:04 <@bubbles> or hack 20:04 <@bubbles> or whatever 20:04 <@bubbles> if you want clocks look at slex 20:04 AntiGulp, same 20:04 I think having nutrition as the primary or only clock is a problem because if you slip up on it, it is difficult to fix 20:05 one thing that's worth bearing in mind is that there are players who enjoy grinding/farming, they have a great time with NetHack at the moment 20:05 <@bubbles> and again look at variants: plenty of races have unique and intresting nutrition complications 20:05 in NH4 I was careful not to nerf farming too much because of this 20:05 AntiGulp, maybe some secondary clocks can be more in the forefront mid-lategame? seen as nutrition isn't really a big deal except early on 20:05 however, I think that for the (more numerous) players who dislike or don't enjoy grinding or farming, the game should be careful not to encourage them into that playstyle 20:06 ais523: yes, but I see farming as quite a big problem because if it exists, less skilled players learn to do it as a crutch, then find the game boring 20:06 That makes sense, ais523 20:06 not sure there's a way to have farming without any rewards :P 20:06 <@bubbles> aosdict that is a general problem with anything that is optional but optimal 20:06 <@bubbles> if that is your outlook then soko should be nuked 20:06 the solution is probably to make farming not optimal, somehow 20:06 <@bubbles> it exists, it's a crutch! 20:07 NH4 gives a score penalty based on turncount; that isn't nearly enough to discourage farming for most games, but it /does/ mean that farming is no longer the optimal way to maximise score 20:07 <@bubbles> I think score is a differnet argument though? 20:07 how many players actually care about score? 20:07 not enough! 20:07 people often want to have it low 20:07 ok i guess that counts as caring 20:07 but 20:08 you know what i mean 20:08 that's because in vanilla, minscore is an interesting conduct; and in 3.4.3, maxscore is just completely broken 20:08 indeed 20:08 <@Sig> Are there even easy ways to farm in vanilla anymore? Pudding farming doesnā€™t work in 3.7 right? 20:08 IIRC there are some score fixes in 3.6.x but I don't know what they are 20:08 <@bubbles> and if you want to reduce farming just remove item polymorph 20:08 Sig: you can still just farm for general deathdrops by hanging around for ages killing monsters and not starving 20:08 <@bubbles> or mega nerf it 20:08 you can farm the puddings in 3.6.x but there are no infinitely scaling rewards from it 20:08 <@bubbles> 50% chance to mulch the item 20:09 polypiling is (still) super broken, but I don't think that's particularly related to farming 20:09 I always forget polypiling exists 20:09 <@bubbles> ofc it is 20:09 <@bubbles> it is related to this entire discussion that some people enjoy a slow game 20:09 random idea: track the amount of time spent on a level. as it increases, monster spawns get both less frequent and more difficult 20:09 gametime speedruns use polypiling for much of their items, and that's about as far from farming as you can get 20:09 I occasionally polypile for much-needed rings 20:09 aosdict: ooh, I like that 20:09 <@bubbles> but why? 20:09 aosdict ooh, interesting! 20:09 does not fix create monster/altar scumming 20:09 <@bubbles> what are you trying to achieve? 20:10 <@bubbles> Like what is the net gain for players to do that? 20:10 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10 it means that the occasional accidental backtrack isn't impacted much, and the level you're on has relevance (unlike many similar schemes) 20:10 but farming becomes more of a challenge to do successfully 20:10 <@bubbles> But WHY should farming be discouraged? 20:10 <@bubbles> If speedruns exist then farming isn't required 20:10 <@Sig> Eh, none of that seems too broken. By the time I get to the point in a game where I can wait around and farm up death drops I donā€™t really need to anymore. 20:10 <@bubbles> so it is a harmless playstyle 20:11 it's not about discouraging farming, it's about making farming more interesting 20:11 @bubbles you were around when pudding farming was a thing right? 20:11 aosdict: I would suggest implementing something like this in the form of boss monsters that scare the lesser monsters away, maybe even kill them 20:11 <@bubbles> " NH4 gives a score penalty based on turncount; that isn't nearly enough to discourage farming for most games, but it /does/ mean that farming is no longer the optimal way to maximise score" 20:11 <@bubbles> Yes 20:11 <@bubbles> I never did it because I was too impatient 20:11 the "omnicidal" attitude would be a useful fit for thisā€¦ 20:11 <@bubbles> And still managed to ascend a good few times 20:12 (originally discussed in the context of monsters reading cursed genocide, omnicidal monsters are hostile to everything except each other, possibly even each other, and kill players and pets and monsters alike) 20:12 well there were lots of players who simultaneously felt they couldn't win without pudding farming but that pudding farming was the worst thing ever 20:12 so they were playing a game and hating it 20:12 <@bubbles> I hate soko 20:13 sokoban? more like suck-o-ban 20:13 yes, this is the fundamental problem of NetHack balance; people feel forced into doing things because they think they're optimal, when in fact a) they could probably win without and b) it probably isn't optimal anyway 20:13 <@bubbles> You can win without it, but not doing it is unjustifiably retarding 20:13 I hate it, too. A single typo and you've botched everything 20:13 <@bubbles> (in the technical sense) 20:13 @bubbles: I take issue with that 20:13 ais523 Truth 20:13 <@bubbles> soko is optinmal though 20:13 I frequently skip Sokoban when I play NetHack 20:13 <@bubbles> sorry ais 20:13 <@bubbles> as in, slowing down your game 20:13 <@bubbles> in the very literal sense of the word 20:14 I am not convinced that the small risk of something going hilariously wrong while clearing Sokoban reduces my win rate less than the rewards from Sokoban increase it, especially with 3.6.x spawn mechanics 20:14 <@bubbles> there is almost no reason to not do soko 20:14 and Sokoban's gain-for-time-spent ratio is low 20:14 <@bubbles> but it is lame and boring 20:14 if not for the random wands, then there would be almost no reason to do it 20:14 <@bubbles> and food 20:14 <@bubbles> tons of food 20:14 yeah if you want to be faste 20:14 I often do soko for the food 20:14 Sokoban's only slightly before the point in the game where food stops mattering 20:14 soko is absolutely not worth it 20:15 the mines often aren't as well 20:15 I have a few wins skipping both mines and soko 20:15 <@bubbles> mines are guaranteed luckstone 20:15 luckstone isn't that important 20:15 on a side note, I actually enjoy Sokoban as a puzzle 20:15 luck isn't that important 20:15 <@bubbles> and tons of good MC gear 20:15 aoei: are you talking about the entire mines branch, or lower mines? 20:15 in fact luck is completely unnecessary 20:15 IMHO the mines are only worth it for the luckstone, which isn't that important, and for armor in the early game 20:15 ais523, depends but sometimes I skip the whole thing 20:15 <@bubbles> I guess the itneresting thing is that soko is one of the few "non-combat" things in nethack and is very marmite-y 20:15 <@Sig> Maybe my perspective is skewed by DNH but by the time I get to Soko Iā€™m ready for a break. 20:16 ais523, especially gametime speedrun but you know this 20:16 <@bubbles> nabru yeah mines are a really well balanced branch 20:16 ok maybe firs tlevel for pickaxe 20:16 yes, speedrun you skip Mines altogether and just wish for candles 20:16 <@bubbles> there are incremental rewards and commesurate risk 20:16 I think upper Mines definitely adds to the game, almost any character and category can find a reason to go there /but/ it's never essential 20:16 (actually in 3.6.x you don't even need to wish for the candles) 20:16 <@bubbles> upper mines include gnometown? 20:17 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 20:17 Hmmm. I might try a no-soko run next time I play. Seems interesting. 20:17 <@bubbles> just tripping to town is great because it is aguaranteed buc test and 1/3 co-aligned 20:17 but i've occasionally also played "branchless" conduct w/o going for a proper speedrun 20:17 naturally you still have to do the quest and vlad's 20:17 <@bubbles> Hmm, wonder what % of games never go to minetown? 20:17 @bubbles: yes, but no further 20:17 I don't think reaching minetown is tracked in the xlog 20:17 <@bubbles> Yeah I often do upper then, until MR then go back for luckstone 20:17 <@bubbles> You get an announce for entering the town in channel 20:18 <@bubbles> I don't know how that works re: the xlog 20:18 maybe it should be, it can easily be figured out from information present at the time of the character's death 20:18 I also hate backtracking unless I get controlled levport 20:18 but anything that isn't in the xlog is hard to get statistics for 20:18 <@bubbles> aoei never play dnh šŸ¤£ 20:18 bubbles: I have an android game saved XD 20:18 actually, I think one problem with NetHack is that it doesn't have enough interesting side branches 20:18 <@bubbles> ais 100% agreed 20:19 big agree 20:19 -!- j6p has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:19 <@bubbles> ais the biggest problem is making the reward relative to the risk 20:19 <@Sig> Ais: thatā€™s why I like DNH 20:19 <@bubbles> yeah dnh branches mostly balance themselves 20:19 <@bubbles> to a degree 20:19 anyway, something worth noting about Sokoban is that there are three groups of NetHack players (which may be approximately equal in size): a) people who like solving Sokobans and like that the game gives them a reason to go there; b) people who like to be able to follow memorized paths and get items as a result; c) people who hate the whole thing but feel forced to go there 20:19 group a) wants random Sokobans, group b) wants the 3.4.3 situation, group c) wants the branch removed entirely 20:20 <@bubbles> I think that's fair 20:20 <@Sig> !gt b 20:20 it is very hard to keep all these players happy at once 20:20 yep 20:20 I'm in the b group 20:20 <@bubbles> I guess the problem is anyone in group a migrates to b over time 20:20 I'm in the depends how I feel group 20:20 The first level of Sokoban I can solve by heart usually 20:20 sometimes I enjoy unnh soko 20:20 YASI: A secret lever that causes sokoban to collapse in on itself when pulls. 20:20 <@bubbles> I am not sure true randomisation works well 20:20 I'm in group a, fwiw 20:20 but other times I really could not be bothered 20:20 But the other levels don't, so I reach to the spoilers 20:20 <@bubbles> nabru play more!!!!! 20:20 Iā€™m in group (c), but if there were randomized puzzles, I would be in (a). 20:21 <@bubbles> fwiw a friend and I spent 2 days at uni making cheat cards for the soko variants 20:21 maybe I'll need to finish my Sokoban generator some time 20:21 <@bubbles> so we could learn them by heart 20:21 <@bubbles> And that was... 15 years ago maybe 20:21 <{Demo}2> kill soko! 20:21 <@bubbles> LOKO! 20:22 <@bubbles> ais but the problem with doing that is it alientates 2/3 of players 20:22 although, there's the problem that my mind keeps thinking that really it should be diagonaloban because then the boulders work the same way as elsewhere and it'd be more unique 20:22 and then I show people some actual diagonaloban levels and they recoil in horror 20:22 <@bubbles> implement ndnh branch-choice 20:22 @bubbles: I don't mean, necessarily to integrate this with vanilla; but it seems like something that would be useful to have as a patch 20:22 <@bubbles> so you can choose either soko or classic-soko or loko 20:23 I feel like diagonaloban might be one of those ā€œawesome on paper, somewhat more frustrating in practiceā€ ideas. 20:23 <@bubbles> sure! 20:23 <@bubbles> antigulp I don't think you can play sokoban on paper 20:23 <@bubbles> unless you have like little paper boulders 20:23 <@bubbles> and punch holes in the page 20:23 <@bubbles> šŸ¤” 20:23 for anyone who's interested, http://nethack4.org/pastebin/example-diagonalobans.txt; imagine a passageway full of holes off the map to the south 20:23 <{Demo}2> id take a puzzle branch if the puzzle didnt suck 20:24 <@Sig> An interesting idea I think some variant implemented is to make the usual Sokoban prize 1 floor lower and make the 4th floor harder with better rewards. 20:24 ais523 my brain hurts but this is awesome 20:24 @Sig: I think that was discussed for Fourk 20:25 but it lead to tragic consequences, when Amy discovered that jonadab had created some very large, massively difficult Sokoban puzzles, and put them in slex unthinkingly 20:25 <@bubbles> Sig someone floated an interesting alternative where you would have a sequence of arena combat 20:25 That actually sounds really nice. I actually donā€™t mind floors 1-3 of sokoban much, itā€™s just that floor 4 is really, really long. 20:25 <@bubbles> and the stage you duck out gives you reward 20:25 @bubbles: that was my idea; I never fleshed out the details though 20:26 <@bubbles> ais 100% if it was an alternative between soko and arena-ban 20:26 <@bubbles> like you choose one portal and the other one goes away 20:26 see "Metropolitan Gallery of Boulder Art" here: http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/nethack-stuff/spoilers-fourk/sokoban/nonfourk-levels.html 20:26 a player came across that in-game, and noted that it was theoretically impossible to beat without a ring of slow digestion 20:27 <@bubbles> I mean just pause nutri-burn in soko 20:27 <@bubbles> and remove monstergen (which dnh already does) 20:27 @bubbles While that sounds nice, doesnā€™t it just make soko feel even more out of place? 20:27 <@Sig> Lol ais 20:27 @bubbles: the plan had it set up so that both went to the same place, and both were easy to traverse backwards 20:27 <@bubbles> isn't it already super out of place? 20:28 thus there was only ever any reason to do one of them, and you could collect the items from the other on the way back out 20:28 <@bubbles> ahhhh 20:28 <@bubbles> yeah that makes sense 20:28 <@Sig> Bubbles: arena sounds neat, though Iā€™m not sure 1v1 combat is really Nethackā€™s strength either 20:29 it wasn't meant to be entirely 1v1, but rather to give challenges that couldn't be brute-forced at that point in the game but could probably be solved with use of consumables, etc. 20:29 that was the idea, I didn't find a set of details I was happy with though 20:30 <@Sig> Oh, that sounds cool, if very difficult to implement 20:30 <@bubbles> yes doesn;t have to be 1v1, can even give the player temp PC-style pets 20:30 <@bubbles> "It's a simple matter of programming" 20:30 <@bubbles> exactly 20:30 "programming" and "simple" in the same sentence? NEVER 20:30 some programming things are trivial 20:31 e.g. changing the stats of a monster in NetHack is trivial, changing some other aspect is normally (but not always) fairly easy 20:31 <@bubbles> smop is a pharse 20:31 <@bubbles> not a beign serious 20:31 some things are much harder though 20:31 <@Sig> More like a Small Matter of Designing. The devil is in the details with combat encounters like that. 20:31 "We do the things we do not because they are easy, but because we thought they would be easy when we started" 20:31 <@Sig> Lol 20:31 <@bubbles> pinkbeast close but I prefer 20:31 but yes, the only difficulty in implementing this would be the "two branches going to the same place" part (maybe even that could be avoidable via placing them parallel to each other on the same level, Wizard's-Tower-style) 20:32 the hard part is the design, not the implementation 20:32 <@bubbles> "We do the things we do not because they are easy, but because we misled our bosses because it sounded like a fun project" 20:32 I fear in roguelike variant development we have no bosses to mislead 20:33 <@Sig> We are our own bosses and we must mislead ourselves 20:33 <@bubbles> talking of bosses I would love if bosses were more bosslike 20:33 <@bubbles> (in nh) 20:33 <@bubbles> it's kinda lame they just spam some spells and hit you but are otherwise just regular monsters who hate silver and have a bit more hp 20:33 "eh, that sounds simple"... hours later, it isn't nearly that simple 20:33 <@Sig> Agree bubbles but I donā€™t know how Iā€™d accomplish that. 20:33 Same. The devil is in the details, though. 20:33 <@bubbles> Oh yeah 20:33 what if they had a health bar that spanned the entire screen? :-D 20:33 <@bubbles> šŸ˜„ 20:34 <@bubbles> I guess a lot of it is because the player is solo 20:34 what if they could come back from the dead? 20:34 nabru: Rodney? 20:34 ais523: yep 20:34 <@bubbles> so classic style BBEG doesn't work well 20:34 but imagine if your quest nemesis etc... could back from the dead 20:34 some roguelikes have experimented with multi-tile monsters; that might be appropriate for bosses, but would be a programming nightmare 20:34 <@bubbles> eek 20:34 <@bubbles> "tile" is already so broken I thin it's best to keep it abstract 20:34 Some> like er NetHack? 20:35 you can also make enemies feel more boss-like by giving them abilities that would be overpowered in any other context 20:35 like undead turning 20:35 <@bubbles> yeah it is the unique abilities that they need 20:35 Mind you, long worms have been a bleeding ulcer of bugs since Hack :-) 20:35 Pinkbeast: I mean rigid shape, not long-worm-like 20:35 <@bubbles> that are actually in-a-turn fight changing 20:35 <@bubbles> I hit a long worm bug the other day šŸ˜¦ 20:35 but yes, long worms are the sort of thing that I suspect are in the game only because they are hard to implement 20:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) wished for "blessed rustproof stormbringer", on T:36403 20:35 (and thus have a tendency to attract the imagination of programmers) 20:36 <@bubbles> multi tile monsters make no sense because then tiny monsters should stack on one tile 20:36 The only multi-tile monster roguelike I can think of off the top of my head is IVAN, which isā€¦ a lot. 20:36 <@bubbles> so yeah tiles should remain an abstract concept 20:36 POWDER 20:36 The golden tridude, Cretan Minotaur, and final boss are 2x2. 20:36 oddly, I find the scariest current boss in NetHack to be the HPoM, and mostly purely just because of damage stats 20:37 I always just wand of death HPoM. When that doesnā€™t work, though, he can be downright nasty. 20:38 <@bubbles> !?ep 20:38 <@bubbles> how does this stupid bot work 20:38 <@bubbles> bah 20:38 anyway, on the subject of Sokoban, one idea that's been discussed here before is to generate smallish diagonaloban puzzles and put them into various locations in regular levels, never blocking the path to the exit, but that can be attempted for minor rewards 20:38 <@bubbles> but they are dangerous because they hit you harder 20:39 <@bubbles> not because the fights are more tactical 20:39 <@bubbles> but nh can't have tactical fights because there are no short-term abilities 20:39 <@bubbles> so tactics are dicatated by really just corridors/doors 20:39 ais523: So sort of like Brogueā€™s puzzle generation. Intersting. 20:39 so that they look sort-of like naturally occurring parts of the dungeon 20:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:36528 20:39 diagonaloban puzzles aren't as artificial-looking as sokobans 20:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:36529 20:40 I donā€™t think short-term abilities are a requirement for tactical fights. Sil manages to make combat incredibly interesting with almost no recharging abilities. 20:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Ana And Fem Neu), 409358 points, T:18405, killed by an invisible elder brain 20:40 ais523: "regular levels" meaning you can port to the reward? 20:40 or phase, or dig 20:40 hmmm 20:41 or break boulders or polyself to giant or... 20:41 aosdict: I thought books were usable 3-4 times? not always 4? 20:41 either way I increased the spell clock from 20k to 60k in fiqhack when I made them only usable once 20:41 BUT, if you could block all those things, you could do them as themed rooms! <-- YANI 20:41 allthough keeping it at 20k would be an interesting caster nerf... 20:41 aosdict: many of these things can be blocked using existing mechanics 20:41 FIQ: I assume you were replying to ais523 there 20:42 yes I meant to reply to ais523 20:42 sorry 20:42 <@bubbles> ais aos, samet hing šŸ¤” 20:42 haha 20:42 I think it's always 4 in vanilla 20:42 I have pinged AimHere in #nethack so many times by mistake 20:42 ais523: maybe it's always 3, but starting spells get 4 because you get the first one for free? 20:42 (I frequently ping myself if the connection seems to be lagging, and normally tab-complete off two characters) 20:42 FIQ: hmm 20:43 <@Sig> YASI: Sokobowling. When you enter youā€™re polyā€™d into a giant and you have to knock over pins with boulders for the prizes. 20:43 anyway, arguably casters become too strong lategame 20:43 the internal value goes up to 4, but NetHack's internal values frequently don't make sense so I can believe that 20:43 so reducing the clock back to 20k would be an interesting counterchange for them 20:43 but I think I'll keep it as-is for now 20:43 @Sig: there was a /dev/null/nethack challenge vaguely like that, although it was based on snooker/billiards/pool rather than bowling 20:44 the polo room 20:44 or whatever it was called 20:44 the challenges were weird, they generally had interesting mechanics that were clued very badly, and could often be made uncompletable unintentionally without realising it 20:45 to the extent that you would need to complete them on a separate save file in order to ascend your original game due to the punishment for accepting 20:45 there was only one save, no? 20:45 also, there was interesting strategy in working out the correct order to do them in if you accepted them all at once, but this never actually came up because you could just not accept one until you completed the one before 20:45 FIQ: serverscumming 20:45 grue challenge was ridiculous 20:46 most of the time you just lose 20:46 very unfun IMO 20:46 in terms of intended gameplay? or just because it was lava time bugged? 20:46 I meant in general 20:46 it is pretty easy if you startscum valks for an oil lamp 20:46 it would very commonly spit out unwinnable games 20:46 unless you startscummed, ye 20:46 s 20:47 I don't like having a challenge that forces you to startscum a character until you eventually beat it 20:47 like half of them were like that if you wanted to do them optimally, though 20:47 and precludes normal play until then 20:47 and as there was a reward for being the first to complete a challenge, and several people (including me) seriously aimed for it some years, optimal challenge completions became quite relevant 20:47 ais523: I think the restrictions was a mistake 20:47 actually, the worst part about the grue challenge was needing a ?oID to complete it 20:48 otherwise they were fine 20:48 (well, the grue challenge iirc breaks apart w/o restrictions, but the others still work) 20:48 FIQ: I feature-requested to Robin (and actually coded) that players should choose challenges-on or challenges-off as a per-game setting; when playing challenges-on, all challenges automatically impose their restrictions until completed 20:48 but the patch never got merged 20:48 I see 20:49 fwiw, devnull-challenges-on should probably be preserved as an alternate (non-default, maybe even nonscoring) game mode in some variant, I intended to add it to NH4 eventually 20:49 but things like the plastic wand make it awkward 20:50 and you would want the challenges to be better clued, and better-balanced than DigDug is 20:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Bin Hum Mal Non) wished for "blessed fireproof +2 Aegis", on T:32743 20:50 (DigDug basically became "either startscum for ?oCharging, or recognise that there is a chance that the challenge will just become unwinnable") 20:51 aye that's a bit of a shite challenge 20:52 What did DigDug involve? 20:53 there were five monsters, four Pookas and a dragon called Fygar; they each had melee attacks that caused you to lose a challenge life (losing all your challenge lives makes the challenge unwinnable), Fygar also dealt regular damage with fire breath 20:53 they were in enclosed chambers in a diggable but disconnected level 20:53 there was a wand of dangerously inflate monster near the entrance, each Pooka also had one 20:53 and they died from four hits of the wand of dangerously inflate monster, but couldn't be killed any other way without softlocking the challenge 20:54 only, the wand tended to miss a lot 20:54 oh jeez 20:55 to add to the fun, the portal into the challenge occasionally spawned in a chamber with Pooka or a Fygar rather than the large entrance chamber 20:55 ais523: I think the utter lack of demand for devnull-challenges-on in any variant means it's not worth programming. 20:55 what makes you think there's a lack of demand? 20:55 there might well not be any demand, but it'll be hard to know until it's implemented 20:55 that's hypothetical demand 20:56 there's a lack of real visible demand 20:56 You see here a magical lamp (for sale, 444 zorkmids). 20:56 I've never seen anyone say "man I wish the devnull challenges could be accessed outside devnull" 20:56 in evilhack, is a magical lamp always a magic lamp? 21:01 <@ShivanHunter> yes 21:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered the Planes, on T:48475 21:02 -!- aoei has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:38590 21:26 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: ZZAZZ] 21:33 [hdf-us] [nh13d] nabru (Elf ### Mal ###) shouted "*@&%!!", on T:300 21:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Ran Orc Fem Cha), 763 points, T:1823, killed by a killer bee 21:36 [hdf-us] [nh13d] nabru (Elf Mal), 655 points, T:1300, the ghost of Tommo 21:37 -!- Menchers has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:41 <@riker> hm. USPS is trying to save the upcoming US election with the power of blockchain 21:42 -!- Menchers has joined #hardfought 21:44 -!- Menchers has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44 -!- Menchers has joined #hardfought 22:08 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 2274 points, T:3576, killed by a gold golem 22:09 [hdf-us] [ndnh] phaperplane2 (Acu Hum Mal Law), 557 points, T:743, killed by shredding of the soul 22:10 yikes. 22:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) genocided class ;, on T:49069 22:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1158 22:15 [hdf-us] [ndnh] phaperplane2 (Acu Hum Mal Law), 778 points, T:1041, killed by an acid blob 22:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered the Astral Plane, on T:49209 22:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 premium heart", on T:2306 22:30 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 22:30 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 22:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:3928 22:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Pestilence, on T:49235 22:31 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 579 points, T:1459, killed by a wererat 22:32 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Mon Maz Fem Cha), 1028 points, T:727, killed by a monster (The Grim Reaper) 22:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:5719 22:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed partially eaten chickatrice corpse", on T:49278 22:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) put Death down for a little nap, on T:49332 22:53 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Wiz Red Fem Cha), 1157 points, T:778, killed by a monster (small kobold) 22:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) has already received their quest via sticky-note, on T:7541 22:59 <@riker> that's a fast quest reach 23:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Famine, on T:49393 23:12 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Wiz Rod Fem Cha), 12678 points, T:268, killed by a monster (cyan warp fungus) 23:14 -!- Mencherino has joined #hardfought 23:14 -!- Menchers has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20 -!- covi has joined #hardfought 23:20 Killed a gray dragon who was standing on top of water. If it had left any scales, would pushing a boulder onto that water square surface it? 23:21 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Wiz Rod Fem Cha), 12856 points, T:164, killed by a monster (saver elemental) 23:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] ssnufd (Arc Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2967 23:22 No, you'd have to either dive under the water or dig them up. 23:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Shelob, on T:10823 23:22 only the unique items do that. 23:23 Guess I'd need a amulet of magical breathing or polyself then.. 23:23 A wand of teleportation could work too. 23:23 well, depending on where it is, a couple zaps with a wand of cold or, even better, the spell, might be enough. 23:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed the high shaman of Moloch, on T:11046 23:28 Andrio: great idea! No luck getting that scale 23:29 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29 Oof 23:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Frozty (Kni Hum Mal Law), 69890078 points, T:49475, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/F/Frozty/nethack/dumplog/1593888610.nh.html 23:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (And-Ana And Fem Neu) killed Lungorthin, on T:11456 23:54 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Wiz Rod Mal Cha), 22395 points, T:555, killed by a monster (fire ant)