00:07 [hdf-us] [4k] charlotte (charles) (Val Hum Fem Neu) entered the Sokoban zoo, on T:4740 00:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] aximili (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 66279 points, T:14239, killed by a gargoyle 00:21 how long do bones typically stick around on a server? does a winning player hoover them all up? 00:23 bug_sniper: she's gonna rush the next release, since a buggy version was pulled early on the server 00:23 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) killed Axus, on T:14538 00:29 spicycat: When a new version goes up that is not save-compatible, all the bones from the previous version are gone forever (actually they just sit on the server, never to be loaded, until someone cleans them up). 00:30 hmmmm. okay, let's assume a variant that doesn't have rapid releases 00:30 or like, 3.4.3 00:31 are there assorted bones scattered across it, or just a few that occasionally get gobbled out? 00:31 * spicycat nervously checks to make sure 343 is still on the server 00:32 [hdf-us] [4k] charlotte (charles) (Val Hum Fem Neu) entered the Minetown temple, on T:6140 00:32 spicycat: Aside from that, if bones exist for a new level that you visit for the first time, there is a chance they will be loaded, but it's not guaranteed, so a complete run will not consume all of the bones. 00:33 thanks 00:33 ooh, maybe if i try to do a bones stuff, which is a cherry i've not yet popped, i'll get a better feel for what server bones are like 00:33 Some variants (possibly including 3.4.3) implement bones pools, which is designed to make it harder to cheat by bones stuffing, but I think also means you can have multiple bones saved for the same level. 00:34 I do not actually know how this works. 00:34 Tangles: added an id number to the bone file name. the id number is determined by hero birthday. 00:35 the id number distinguishes bones in addition to branch and [depth or level id] 00:35 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) killed Oona, on T:15207 00:36 paxed: Then when another player loads the level, it only loads those bones if the new hero's birthday hashes to the same value? 00:37 Tangles: correct 00:37 so one game simply cannot hover up all the bones, if the bones pools are in use 00:37 Thanks paxed. 00:38 that's interesting, i don't understand all the words you said, but the ones i did fathom were cool 00:39 it sounds like you're saying "bones from the current date (or last year) are the only bones the player is eligible to receive", but that doesn't seem likely 00:40 My suspicion is that some variants on hdf implement this while others do not... K2: Should we look into enabling this on all variants? 00:40 spicycat: not exactly. 00:40 it's more like (unix_timestamp % 10) 00:41 Also you aren't guaranteed to get a valid bones floor even if one exists. 00:42 % ? 00:43 Yeah - it has to hash to the same value just to have a chance to load. 00:43 Tangles: for 3.6.1 and above, it's in sysconf 00:43 spicycat: modulo 00:43 * spicycat googles 00:43 spicycat: that is the modulo operator, which means the remainder when you divide by something. 00:44 you can shortcut modulo-10 by jsut taking the last digit. 00:44 oh, brogue uses modulo for something! 00:44 * spicycat has forgotten more things than she knows 00:44 but i vaguely remember this! 00:44 ~~You can; the computer can't though.~~ 00:46 seems like if you apply that to all variants, the less popular variants will become quite bonesless 00:46 could be good for JNH though 00:46 yeah that could happen 00:47 especially for the least frequently played, most frequently updated ones. 00:47 (well, bonesless-feeling) 00:48 few games will suck up all the deep bones, but new games will always generate more low-depth bones 00:49 ...hm, if i was a variant author, and i wanted my variant to have juicy bones, i'd try to make playing Wizard extra appealing, then more people would have joy sparked when they found bones, instead of "ach, healer bones again!" 00:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] aximili (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 341 points, T:1340, killed by a boiling potion 00:53 okay, i'm gonna try my first stuffing. for science, but also for speed boots. 00:53 !setmintc 3333 00:53 spicycat: [hdf-au][hdf-eu][hdf-us] Min reported turncount for spicycat set to 3333 00:53 i have no idea how many turns it takes to get to DL 4 00:54 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 00:55 usually not that many 00:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] aximili (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 258 points, T:649, poisoned by a little dart 01:03 what's a fun dnethack class race combo? 01:05 <@riker> define fun 01:05 <@riker> incantifier binder is a relatively easy combination that lets you see a lot of the new stuff 01:05 <@riker> same with dwarven anachrononaut 01:06 <@riker> incantifier wizard is closer to vanilla, halfdragon monk is relatively close, and probably orc barbarian as well 01:06 <@riker> those 3 are still some of the higher tier combos 01:08 i love incantifier binder, instead of having to scum to get good spirits, you can just cast force bolt until a decent spirit shows up 01:08 I'll try that inc binder 01:09 I started with stolen apples. Do I have to eat them as soon as possible? 01:13 nice patch idea: make numpad an alias for number_pad in the nethackrc 01:13 and num_pad too 01:16 is 11 int bad for an incantifier? 01:20 you'll be fine, just cast force bolt 01:20 how does an incantifier heal? 01:21 cast heal 01:21 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Incantifier_(dNetHack_starting_race) 01:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] aximili (Hea Gno Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed figurine of an Archon", on T:2529 01:26 boots of speed from a dilapidated armory 01:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] aximili (Hea Gno Mal Neu) consulted the Oracle, on T:2856 01:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] aximili (Hea Gno Mal Neu) killed the Oracle, on T:2875 01:33 a conical hat is lit? 01:42 -!- tommo has joined #hardfought 01:42 !variant 01:42 tommo: splicehack 01:49 -!- maxlunar has joined #hardfought 01:50 bug_sniper: in some variants, gnomes and/or dwarves have candles in their hats 01:50 instead of or in addition to infravision 01:51 jonadab: i forget, do scurrier "digging claws" benefit unarmed damage? 01:54 -!- tommo has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:01 I can now bind a spirit 02:01 how do you decide which spirit to bind? 02:06 ones from this list are solid picks https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Binder_(dNetHack_role)#Early_game 02:07 or look up the full spirit list and pick for yourself 02:09 <@bubbles> you don't need to scum for good spirits 02:09 <@bubbles> if its bad just playu like a tourist and go suuuuper slow 02:09 <@bubbles> but usually you will be able to get at least one 25-turn cooldown ability 02:09 <@bubbles> which should let you level up relatively slowly but safely 02:10 i think there's a way to see spirit descriptions in game, but the wiki is better. or screenshot the spirits you have access to, and pick bubbles's brain :D 02:17 <@bubbles> safest is andre first because you can tp to safety, the beam does poop damage but enough to kill early stuff 02:17 <@bubbles> but anything with an active attack is fine 02:17 <@bubbles> ideally one without a hit roll, but even with a to hit it's fine 02:17 <@bubbles> just play super cautious 02:17 <@bubbles> half dragon is both easier and harder (because you get breath, but you are slooow) 02:18 <@bubbles> incanti is super spammy meh 02:23 yeah, andre sounds good 02:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] aximili (Hea Gno Mal Neu) stole 113 zorkmids worth of merchandise from Manlobbi's general store, on T:3684 02:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] bugsniper (Bin Inc Mal Non) killed Cerberus, on T:1339 02:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] bugsniper (Bin Inc Mal Non), 16861 points, T:1469, killed by a bolt of fire 02:33 well, that was certainly new 02:33 lots of nasty vampires that way after getting past cerberus 02:35 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 godhands", on T:20582 02:37 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 bone helm of brilliance", on T:20593 02:39 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) killed Sir Garland, on T:20614 02:41 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) destroyed Lich, the Fiend of Earth, on T:20769 02:43 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) killed Kary, the Fiend of Fire, on T:20803 02:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] aximili (Hea Gno Mal Neu) consumed animal products for the first time, by eating a large kobold corpse, on T:5512 02:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] aximili (Hea Gno Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:5657 02:47 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) killed Kraken, the Fiend of Water, on T:21006 02:49 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) killed Tiamat, the Fiend of Wind, on T:21065 02:51 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) killed Garland, on T:21135 02:51 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 02:52 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) destroyed Chaos, on T:21174 02:55 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought 02:59 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:08 <@Joanna> Mornin 03:12 Mornin! Your main computer still kaput? 03:19 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) was given their Quest, on T:21995 03:20 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased living mask", on T:22018 03:22 <@Joanna> Nah but I haven't set up IRC on it yet. I have MX Linux installed on hdd and I'm making a live version with persistence atm 03:22 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Jed Ent Fem Cha), 57820 points, T:16665, quit 03:22 <@Joanna> From the live one I can do funky stuff like configure zfs pools and install gentoo 03:23 <@Joanna> Downloading MX Linux and installing it to a USB using Tails took ages 03:25 Ah good to hear! 03:25 <@Joanna> Basically what happened was the Fedora liveUSB I made wasn't actually bootable for some reason, so I just used the grub I already had to issue the necessary kernel and initrd commands to boot it. Fine. But then after wiping my hdd and realising I couldn't do zfs on the live system I tried to run the installer (this was an xfce spin not stable fedora live media) 03:26 <@Joanna> Sooo the installer failed. The bit I didn't count on was 03:26 <@Joanna> Hitting the quit installer button also rebooted the system 03:26 oops 03:27 <@Joanna> Yeah so I was glad I had another bootable USB lying around 03:27 <@Joanna> But Tails isn't exactly designed for this kind of shit 03:29 <@Joanna> So it took some doing 03:30 <@Joanna> You'd think downloading an ISO and writing it to the USB stick can't be that hard 03:31 <@Joanna> But try doing it on Tails without the right firmware/nonfree driver for a shitty WiFi card (fun fact: installing kernel modules on Tails is near impossible, I didn't manage it) 03:33 <@Joanna> USB tethering to phone plus unsafe Browser to get around the tor slowness was the only way 03:33 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Jed Ent Fem Cha), 3997 points, T:2063, quit 03:34 <@Joanna> Tails also does fun stuff like download to a chroot when you use unsafe Browser 03:35 for security? 03:35 <@Joanna> But that's not too hard to workaround 03:35 <@Joanna> Yeah I guess 03:36 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) averted death, on T:22563 03:36 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) averted death, on T:22568 03:37 <@Joanna> Normally I just use Tails for what it's meant for 03:37 <@Joanna> Not trying to install computers 03:39 I'd never heard of it, but sounds cool 03:39 <@Joanna> It's neat if you want to do dodgy deals on the darkweb 03:39 <@Joanna> Everything is routed through tor, you can have a bitcoin wallet on it etc. 03:39 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 03:39 lol not my first thought 03:40 <@Joanna> I mean I certainly dont use it for that 03:40 <@Joanna> <.< 03:40 more like cool, avoid big brother 03:40 :-) 03:40 <@Joanna> >.> 03:41 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha) averted death, on T:22768 03:43 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha), 1258650 points, T:22828, killed by petrification 03:44 <@Joanna> Isn't the point of avoiding big brother so you can do dodgy stuff xD 03:45 :b 03:45 <@Joanna> I should hush. Maybe he's watching me now o.o 03:53 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dwa Fem Cha), 6026 points, T:682, killed by a mind flayer 03:53 <@Joanna> Btw if you want a live USB system with persistence, MX Linux is the best I've found 03:54 -!- VaderFLAG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:55 -!- VaderFLAG has joined #hardfought 03:55 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:58 -!- Announcy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59 -!- Announcy has joined #hardfought 03:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Announcy] by ChanServ 04:00 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Jed Ent Fem Cha), 1011 points, T:1583, quit 04:01 maxlunar: how are you finding ent? stronger than angel? 04:01 well, cant compare 04:01 it's good for jedi because it attacks twice per turn 04:02 but also it's slow 04:02 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Hlf Mal Cha), 9765 points, T:2538, poisoned by a dark worm 04:02 that actually sounds pretty good 04:02 depending how slow it is 04:02 I could also play as clockwork automaton, but it cannot eat 04:03 how slow? twice as slow 04:03 it gets speed intrinsic at some level, but you also might want to find second source of speed 04:04 also it's digging monster 04:04 raiding all the vaults :D 04:04 haha, nice 04:04 I tried spirit for a bit and that was kind of neat, intrinsic phasing 04:04 hmmst 04:05 I might try it at some point 04:05 just because of phasing 04:05 you count as undead so better to be chaotic for prayer 04:06 also been playing with some extra hybrid races lol, x-race is a bit nuts 04:06 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Jed Ent Fem Cha), 2192 points, T:443, quit 04:06 saw a stack of 19 gray stones on the ground, so picked them up to name them 'ammo' or whatever 04:06 it was a stack of 19 loadstones 04:06 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana Dro Fem Cha), 995 points, T:680, killed by a gnome lord, while helpless 04:07 LOL, 19 loadstones 04:07 say thanks it wasnt 19 loadboulders 04:08 it would have been pretty great if it was 19 healthstones though... 04:09 I also think it would be cool to try monk/spirit 04:09 because of quest artifact 04:09 stacks well with phasing 04:13 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Jed Esp Fem Cha), 816 points, T:917, killed by a monster (Shaktari) 04:13 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 04:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 04:14 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (And-Ana And Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1329 04:22 I've not managed to get to the quest yet to get the artifact 04:23 only found and done one of the alignment quests as well, the neutral one 04:23 it starts getting a bit difficult lol 04:24 what race/role? 04:25 monk sokosolver specialist angel was my best run so far 04:26 I think aklysts might be a really strong role btw if you've not tried them yet 04:26 maybe one of the best 04:27 [hdf-us] [slshm] aux (Wiz Dop Fem Cha), 411 points, T:1111, killed by a fox 04:27 maybe ent akl or clk akl would be insane 04:29 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Ana And Fem Neu), 21371 points, T:3314, killed by a hill orc, while reading a book 04:45 amateurhour, you found another of slex's evil patch ideas 04:45 what's that? 04:45 the stack of loadstones 04:45 haha, yeah 04:45 that's too evil 04:46 kinda 04:46 although you can pray to get your god to drop them for you 04:46 if your prayer is on a timeout you're just dead 04:46 panic read all your scrolls and then die 04:46 :P 04:47 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Tou Inc Mal Neu), 14209 points, T:3192, quit 04:49 why is that "evil", you just don't simply pick up gray stones before kick-testing them :P didn't your mother teach you anything? 04:49 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Arc Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed fixed greased +2 dragonhide cloak of magic resistance", on T:7515 04:49 \o/ 04:49 I usually name all graystones that arent heavy and spawned in stacks 04:50 funnily enough I assumed a stack of 19 would be like flint or something 04:50 so wanted to name it ammo 04:50 yeah lol 04:50 i name them "harmless" 04:50 could be like 19 sleepstones or whatever I guess :| 04:51 are there any beneficial ones besides manastones, healthstones, and luckstones? 04:51 i wonder how it would feel to find 19 loadboulders 04:51 ehh, magic resistance stone 04:51 wishstones would be nice :b 04:53 right so once I've found the mines luckstone and healthstone I should probs stop picking up gray stones... 04:54 well, also whetstones, but theyre used solely for sharpening 04:55 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Inf Ith Mal Una), 621 points, T:1373, zombified by a dwarf zombie 04:57 heh, rule of thumb in slex: just because it would be safe in vanilla, doesn't mean it also is here :P (there was a player once who was very surprised that the randomly generated blindfold, and the mines end luckstone, turned out to be cursed) 04:59 when I actually manage to get myself to work, I wanna do most of slex stuff generated dynamically, means graystones when I implement them might have any possible ability. It might be pain in ass to implement all those bad effects from scratch though... 04:59 omg don't tell me you're trying to make yet ANOTHER variant of slex 05:00 I had an idea to rewrite nethack in other language, but I also like slex so I'll port some stuff from it to my own roguelike 05:00 heh, don't want to play devil's advocate but "port nethack to another language" projects usually die soon after they get started 05:00 maybe he/she just takes your graystone modifications, and tweaks them a little ;) 05:01 rewrite slex in... 05:01 that said, porkman's "slex" "variant" also died soon after it got started 05:01 !rng C++ | Rust | Haskell | Scheme | Lua | Brainfuck | Basic 05:01 amateurhour: Haskell 05:01 I know that this is a lot of work, but I already wrote that into my idea's txt and I dont plan to scrap it 05:01 and so the lord rngesus has spoken 05:01 hell no 05:02 my choice is Python :D 05:02 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:02 to be fair python with libtcod would be quite nice 05:02 also be aware of the fact that making a variant takes infinite amounts of free time, probably the reason why porkman gave up (real life doesn't always allow that much time to be used for working on game development, sadly) 05:03 right now I'm not working fulltime and I had to leave university (because of my region, I want to relocate, wouldnt tell all the info) 05:03 but it does to loving shoes <3 and being fleecy! ^___^ 05:03 :3 05:03 so... I have a ton of free time until next summer 05:04 sorry to hear that maxlunar, hoping things go well 05:04 things go well, dont worry 05:04 I still have a 05:04 "job", but it's not fulltime 05:04 enough to pay for living 05:06 I usually code for my job (maintaining a backend for their service), but to avoid burning out, I do some pet projects of mine. 05:08 that's a good idea 05:08 -!- stenno4 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09 I'm also a software engineer, but burning out like mad from work so put all my pet projects on hold... 05:10 I haven't seen porkman around for some time 05:12 LarienTelrunya: got no old fruit twice in a row when going down to Minetown for first time 05:13 maxlunar: minor bug with bones levels 05:13 oooh, so this is also a bone level 05:13 interestin 05:14 usually, I talk about slex in #em.slashem.me and other variants in #hardfought 05:17 I'm getting channel fatigue, already in 8 nethack related channels 05:17 two of which are dedicated to variants generally 05:17 heh, I'm in 7 channels, two of which (junethack and nethack-offtopic) rarely ever have any posts 05:19 I wish I had some container... 05:20 in a future version I plan to implement ladies handbags as a new container tool :D 05:20 lol @ that minetown floor maxlunar! that looks like an ironman mode bones level to me 05:20 any specialty for handbags? 05:21 -!- winny has quit [Changing host] 05:21 -!- winny has joined #hardfought 05:21 IIRC the plan was to make it so that for a female character, items inside a handbag weigh 20% less 05:21 lol yeah, thanks to flight and phasing, otherwise I couldnt traverse it 05:23 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:24 dammit, they cannot move around 05:24 also, no need to drop the pick-axe when you can phase into the shops anyway 05:24 yeah they won't move onto water or other special terrain 05:28 I wonder why is he displeased... 05:29 you killed a couple of watchmen; even as a chaotic that still reduces your alignment 05:29 ooh. am I safe from own-race sacrifice on spirit? 05:29 <@Joanna> > I had an idea to rewrite nethack in other language, but I also like slex so I'll port some stuff from it to my own roguelike @maxlunar#0000 hey that was my idea! 05:30 <@Joanna> Also the language will be Rust 05:30 nah, as a spirit you still count as human so sacrificing the watchmen can summon demons 05:30 good, Rust is nice, but I plan to use Python 05:30 <@Joanna> blinks 05:30 I was able to do own-race sacrifices as ent 05:30 <@Joanna> Don't write a game in python 05:30 why? 05:30 <@Joanna> It's too slow 05:31 :/ 05:31 yes, ents can offer humans without trouble; spirits can't 05:31 it's not slow if you use it right. 05:31 <@Joanna> You want the compiled down lean fastness of Rust 05:32 <@Joanna> So your Realtime speed runners have satisfactory response times to their actions 05:32 have you ever heard of PyPy? 05:32 <@Joanna> Nah what's that 05:33 Python interpreter rewritten in static subset of Python that is faster than cpython 05:33 it's about implementation, not language 05:33 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) became literate by reading a book, on T:7910 05:34 [hdf-eu] [dnh] vimla (Ana Hlf Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2786 05:34 you might find this interesting, something the pypy project uses: https://rpython.readthedocs.io/en/latest/faq.html 05:34 <@Joanna> Rust is also a better language though 05:34 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Ass Esp Fem Cha) killed the courier of serhei, the former Urban Legend, on T:4400 05:34 I once wrote a BF interpreter in rust as a learning exercise 05:34 went to github to see other interpreters after it was done 05:35 what the fuck, someone got to minetown with a courier??? wow 05:35 <@Joanna> I wrote a BF compiler once too :D 05:35 someone wrote theirs in python with rpython and it knocked the socks off my rust one performance wise 05:35 but you should know that pypy is slower for some things that matter 05:35 <@Joanna> Well better code will outperform across languages 05:36 no theirs didn't use any fancy things, just wrote the basic what to do 05:36 -!- musicdemon has joined #hardfought 05:36 it was all in the rpython conversion 05:36 <@Joanna> Was your Rust implementation algorithmically the same? 05:37 <@Joanna> Like how do we make this a fair comparison 05:37 i dont care about speed unless it's a snail speed. 05:37 <@Joanna> Fair 05:37 snails are pretty damn fast buggers :P 05:37 it won't matter for making a roguelike anyway as you'll presumably just use a library like libtcod anyway 05:37 that would make me find a way to improve the performance 05:38 <@Joanna> I mean I also generally dislike python so I may be somewhat biased 05:38 me too, but it's 'fine' for most things honestly 05:39 <@Joanna> Lol my mate went on a massive rant about her python hatred once 05:39 yeah you might be biased. Python wasnt that good few years ago, but it tries to improve over time 05:39 You know how they all say you'll get used to the whitespace thing? Fuck no. 05:40 <@Joanna> About some code she tried to work with with poor documentation of the API 05:40 <@Joanna> And she had to go source diving to find what types to use because python doesn't care about types and they're not restricted in the API or something 05:40 whitespace? I dont understand people who cant deal with indent-based code blocks 05:40 <@Joanna> But a lot of it came down to like 05:40 python does care about types. 05:41 I'm not sure a vast version incompatibility debacle counts as "improve over time". I mean, Perl 5 got that right in 1994. 05:41 <@Joanna> These people wrote bad code and didnt document it properly 05:41 it just has no variables - those are called "names" 05:41 blame on people who wrote bad code :P 05:41 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a hezrou, on T:8334 05:41 <@Joanna> Yeah that's what I said 05:42 <@Joanna> But she ranted on about loose typing and vague APIs and no language should allow this 05:42 at work we have a project still using 2.7... 05:42 with tabs instead of spaces... 05:42 <@Joanna> I do like strong types though (: 05:42 well, Python has strong typing, but it has no variables. You cannot simply add str and int 05:43 but you can overwrite name 05:43 Obviously it has variables, whatever it calls them. 05:43 <@Joanna> Eh can we not talk whitespace thing 05:43 <@Joanna> It's very triggering for me 05:44 well, that's a names. When you create a name for object, you increase a reference count for that object. Once name is overwritten or deleted, you decrease the reference count. When it drops to 0, it is collected by GC 05:44 is the "hell-p" going to stay tame when i am done being a hezrou? 05:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:46 <@Joanna> Where are the types in this API? 05:46 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/742680337070686308/Screenshot_20200811_114609_com.android.chrome.jpg 05:46 rebatela it should. I am surprised you got a tame one. 05:46 i have 3 05:46 K2 must have fixed something 05:47 and all my gear is under a boulder ( i was a giant) 05:47 I got hostile ones when I was a vampire mage :b 05:47 well, that API just looks horrible. Usually people annotate functions or document them better 05:47 i keep jumping in the water though. I suck at the mines 05:47 heh 05:47 <@Joanna> maxlunar: OK fair 05:48 just rusted out my stethsocope completely 05:48 <@Joanna> Bad example 05:48 <@Joanna> Matplotlib is shite 05:48 <@Joanna> Matplotlib is shite 05:48 My Arc has a rusty tinning kit ;-) 05:48 let me give ya a good example :D 05:48 YANI: tin openers should be enchantable like a weapon. 05:48 <@Joanna> used that shitty library to make pretty figures for her PhD thesis 05:48 https://python-telegram-bot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/telegram.ext.updater.html 05:49 matplotlib... eh, it's popular, but I dont like it, I think there's some better alternatives though 05:49 <@Joanna> Oh yay it has types 05:50 <@Joanna> Good-o 05:50 <@ShivanHunter> I mean the issue is, lots of APIs/libraries/etc don't have documentation that good - and in a sanely-typed language you at least know the types of every argument even if there's crap for documentation 05:51 <@Joanna> Yeah shivanhunter I think this was essentially my friend's gripe with Python/weakly typed languages in general 05:51 <@ShivanHunter> 's mother tongue is Java which doesn't even let you go from double to float without an explicit cast lol 05:51 <@Joanna> I grew up on a mix of C and Perl 05:51 <@ShivanHunter> right? good code is self-documenting, but most code is NOT good code 05:51 Python is duck-typed. If you implement iterator protocol - you can iterate through your object with for-loop. If you implement file protocol (.write/.read), you can pass those into objects that expect files 05:52 <@Joanna> So I had a mix of strong and weak typing... 05:52 Ha, likewise (the C was NetHack's pre-ANSI C which was er perhaps not ideal for later life; the Perl was, my first job plunked me down with a copy of the camel book on the first day and told me to "write a thing to parse these invoices") 05:52 <@Joanna> > right? good code is self-documenting, but most code is NOT good code @ShivanHunter true 05:52 back to giant with 5 pet hezrous 05:52 javascript is an example of horrible typing, but it is blazing fast 05:53 good thing that wasm kicks in... 05:53 that's one of the few positive polytrap experiences i've had 05:53 okay, back to slex 05:53 no worrying about losing a shirt or robe 05:53 <@Joanna> @pinkbeast actually I don't remember which one I did first, C or Perl, but when I was a wee 12yo my mum had books on that stuff and I ate that shit up 05:54 need a new stethsocope tho 05:54 I know which was first; Hack on the Sun 3/60s in about '88 :-) 05:54 actually i have 7 hezrous! 05:55 <@Joanna> ok i wasn't alive yet 05:55 recently I've played with ANSI escapes, and I managed to write script that prints images into console. Here's a rickroll in TTY https://streamable.com/o4tto8 05:56 <@Joanna> I read C how to program by dietel and dietel around 2003 05:56 <@ShivanHunter> lmao maxlunar 05:56 <@Joanna> Yay rickroll 05:56 polymorphed into a Death dragon with a unique breath attack #blessed 05:57 Death breath is the best breath 05:57 I wonder if I render it in Alacritty, might be even faster (i had to sync to sound in videoeditor) 05:58 my roguelike would probably use those 24-bit color escapes for coloring :D 05:58 <@Joanna> Actually my first ever programming language was in fact... 05:58 <@Joanna> Flash actionscript 05:58 rebatela I assume you have a magic whistle ;-) 05:59 <@Joanna> Now if there's a dead language 05:59 <@ShivanHunter> good old Flash :D 05:59 mine was Pascal, but I quite didnt like it, then I tried some Java, didnt like it as well, and then I stumbled upon Python 05:59 mobiluser: I do ! and luckily it's one of the thigns i left behind so at least it didn't rust away 05:59 <@Joanna> I tried Java at some point 06:00 <@Joanna> Somehow I didn't stick with it long 06:00 the rat king is running away from them lol 06:01 rebatela: still, that many pets is a bit of a pain when changing levels 06:01