00:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) entered a temple, on T:3987 00:51 [hdf-us] [nh343] KaiHerd (Kni Hum Fem Law), 7767 points, T:3393, killed by a rothe, while taking off clothes 00:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:38281 00:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:38286 00:57 !tell k2 why don't pseudodragons say something when you chat to them? 00:57 I'm on it, bugsniper. 00:59 because they dont talk 00:59 K2: Message from bugsniper at 2020-08-05 00:57 EDT: why don't pseudodragons say something when you chat to them? 01:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:52811 01:09 they could growl or something 01:10 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] smzp (Pir Elf Mal Cha) entered the adventure town for the first time, on T:1781 01:17 or roar 01:18 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 9008 points, T:7154, killed by an elf mummy 01:18 they hiss 01:18 meow rawr 01:19 pseudodragon is about the size of a typical housecat. roar wouldnt fit the profile 01:22 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 122 points, T:719, killed by a boiling potion 01:34 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 1402 points, T:2482, killed by a gold golem 01:35 [hdf-eu] [ndnh] smzp (Pir Elf Mal Cha), 9250 points, T:3214, killed by a dreadblossom swarm, while paralyzed by a monster 01:42 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 572 points, T:2769, killed by a falling rock 01:43 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2240 points, T:2544, killed by a soldier ant 01:43 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 167 points, T:162, killed by a falling rock 01:58 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:00 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 1925 points, T:2199, killed by a gnome lord 02:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Swn Fem Cha) killed Axus, on T:20621 02:04 if a zombie eats your brain, can you find a potion of restore ability to get your brain back? 02:05 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1211 points, T:5703, killed by a little dog 02:12 -!- rebatela has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 1622 points, T:2895, killed by an owlbear 02:21 -!- Bliss56 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 02:49 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1069 points, T:2078, killed by a manes, while frozen by a monster's gaze 02:50 <@FIQ> bugsniper: yes 02:51 <@FIQ> potions of restore ability come with free brain replacement parts included 02:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 819 points, T:1029, killed by a bat 02:56 good to know 02:56 now I just need to find one of them 02:58 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 03:01 [hdf-us] [slshm] KaiHerd (Val Hum Fem Neu), 4544 points, T:3748, killed by a baby yellow dragon 03:02 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 538 points, T:1134, killed by a gnome lord 03:14 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 915 points, T:1674, killed by a rabid dog 03:16 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 339 points, T:573, killed by a gnome 03:37 -!- stenno1 has joined #hardfought 03:42 -!- stenno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 03:55 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:58 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) killed Croesus, on T:55082 03:59 -!- bugsniper_ has joined #hardfought 03:59 Trophy GET :b 04:01 -!- bugsniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:03 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Oona, on T:16851 04:16 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:20 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) was given their Quest, on T:17810 04:23 nice mobileuser 04:24 idea: take croesus' wealth and use it to open a bar and retire early, forget about the amulet and the idol 04:30 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 2857 points, T:3358, zombified by a hobbit zombie, while frozen by a monster's gaze 04:31 heh. :-) I'm taking all of his gold to buy protection finally, it's getting very expensive... 04:34 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 246 points, T:712, killed by a gnome king 04:36 -!- stenno1 has joined #hardfought 04:37 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 313 points, T:659, killed by a crossbow bolt 04:39 -!- bugsniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:41 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:42 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:42 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) averted death, on T:947 04:46 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) murdered milo, his faithful warhorse, on T:13375 04:48 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:13579 04:49 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 05:01 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 1676 points, T:2428, killed by a dwarf lord 05:03 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 269 points, T:549, killed by a mithril dart 05:07 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2622 points, T:2480, killed by a little dog 05:08 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) wished for "cursed fixed +2 dragonhide speed boots", on T:55734 05:09 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) wished for "blessed fixed mithril magic lamp", on T:55739 05:12 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 113 points, T:373, killed by a boulder 05:17 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:20 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed the invisible elenmirie's ghost, the former Heretic, on T:15176 05:45 -!- j6p has joined #hardfought 05:48 those bones were awesome... she died in a scroll shop with a ton of stuff that I couldn't afford to buy, but somehow the shopkeeper got killed by a monster and I was able to just take everything (and the shopkeepers gold) 05:52 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (mind flayers), on T:17507 05:55 What was she killed by? 05:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] Caeleno (Val Hum Mal Law) entered a temple, on T:18644 06:02 giant mimic in the store 06:03 the shopkeeper was alive when i got there and the pile was inside the store so i was kind of out of luck, but he had an accident i guess (it wasn't me!) 06:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] Caeleno (Val Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:18903 06:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] Caeleno (Val Hum Mal Law) polymorphed his first object, on T:18920 06:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:53800 06:17 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) averted death, on T:18735 06:27 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 594 points, T:2106, killed by a gas cloud 06:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Caeleno (Val Hum Mal Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon him by Tyr, on T:20226 06:36 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44 -!- tommo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:07 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:17 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:21 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 07:21 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 07:29 [hdf-au] [spl] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:35987 07:34 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) averted death, on T:21623 07:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] post163 (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 495 points, T:1035, killed by a hobbit 07:35 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) was given Fire Brand, on T:21650 07:36 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) became the Emissary of Elements, on T:21667 07:52 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Bin Orc Fem Non) was given the Shield of Yggdrasil, on T:26413 07:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:42524 07:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Oona, on T:42836 07:59 [hdf-au] [spl] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed the invisible Malcanthet, on T:36438 08:09 [hdf-au] [spl] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:36804 08:13 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Bin Orc Fem Non) was given the Gauntlets of Spell Power, on T:28265 08:17 [hdf-au] [spl] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:37423 08:19 <@bubbles> GO GO TANGLES 08:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 579 points, T:826, killed by a small dagger 08:25 <@bubbles> first wish as orc binder? I have no idea 08:29 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 08:34 lol thanks @bubbles 08:37 <@bubbles> LAME mordor 08:37 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:37 <@bubbles> I need flying 08:37 <@bubbles> some stupid abbot turned my quest into all pits 08:38 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 08:39 [hdf-au] [spl] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha) destroyed Alucard, on T:38258 08:41 -!- tommo has joined #hardfought 08:45 -!- tommo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:46 [hdf-au] [spl] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:38680 08:46 [hdf-au] [spl] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:38681 08:52 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Bin Orc Fem Non) killed Axus, on T:33547 08:53 !lastgame splice bouquet 08:53 Tangles: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/splicehack/dumplog/1593461452.splice.html 08:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed spellbook of detect treasure", on T:46343 08:56 <@bubbles> woooo platinum!!!! 08:57 nice one 09:00 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:15 -!- shadowcat has joined #hardfought 09:16 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:31 jonadab: aosdict: do you think a built-in re-roll system would be a controversial feature? what if it was a conduct 09:32 acehack had this and it was very controversial 09:32 personally I've never understood why tbh 09:33 i liked it, but it def. has to be conductified 09:33 i _think_ number of rerolls was in xlog? 09:33 you will get your inventory shown before the game starts 09:33 so you can still do 'free' rerolling without it appearing in xlog 09:34 I was considering also allowing you to specify requirements 09:34 with the game skipping rolls not fulfilling it (up to, say, 100 rolls) 09:35 [hdf-us] [spl] shadowcat (Bar Inf Fem Cha) attained the rank of Bandit, on T:3227 09:36 stenno1: what if you weren't able to see your inventory or attributes at all, but could choose constraints on inventory and attributes before starting the game? to avoid that "problem" 09:37 and if you wouldn't get those restrains fulfilled after, say, 100 rolls, you would start normally? 09:37 sounds like an interesting twist 09:37 yes 09:38 up to you to choose a constraint that is not too complex 09:38 [hdf-us] [dnh] KrO2 (Ana Inc Mal Neu) killed the invisible Hmnyw-Pharaoh, on T:38665 09:38 this might get nasty from the interface though 09:38 yeah 09:38 this is makewish nastiness territory 09:39 what do you mean? 09:39 makewish has no problems whatsoever to an end user 09:39 sure, it's a huge PITA to code 09:39 but to end users it's fine 09:39 I figured the tricky part here was to make a good UI for it 09:39 Until you try to wish for a tin of werewolf meat (before that was fixed). 09:40 well its nasty in the frontend and in the backend 09:40 could walk through all attributes first: 09:41 Do you want a specific maximum strength? Do you want a specific minimum strength? 09:41 hrm 09:41 the way I'd do it 09:41 is to have the normal "new game" button, and an additional button "new game preferences" 09:41 [hdf-us] [spl] shadowcat (Bar Inf Fem Cha), 3284 points, T:4099, killed by a blue jelly 09:41 where you can set up one or several preselects to choose from, and whether or not to automatically use them when clicking new game 09:42 you could also add setseed to this 09:42 and if you have one set up, it would instead of just "new game", say "new game (preselect: PreselectName)" 09:42 I want a wizard with intelligence above 12. 09:44 i want a spellbook of identify but only if my int is between 16 and 18 09:44 too complicated 09:45 nethack-TNG has rerolling for a certain stat, but it's very janky 09:45 I'd just allow you to change attribute constraints, and to try to roll for one or several items and whether they should be blessed, uncursed or any 09:45 (or cursed I guess, but currently starting items are never cursed) 09:45 FIQ how's work coming along on the dynahack revamp? 09:45 K2: where's my $$$ 09:46 didnt aosdict send you a check?? 09:46 nope 09:46 its coming... get to work 09:46 FIQ: I don't really like the idea of giving players more crutches. 09:46 :P 09:46 aosdict: I'd just be automating a mechanic some players already abuse 09:46 with an added conduct on top 09:46 good thinking aosdict, we should actually go the other way and randomise more things so start scumming is impractical 09:46 if they want to crutch themselves by startscumming, then fine, also note that you could startscum normally and dodge the conduct 09:47 sure but that is true of any variant 09:47 I can't really defend against that 09:48 I view start scumming as degenerate (apart from tournament tricks) so I have little interest in making that aspect of the game more accessible 09:48 fair 09:48 the presets idea is pretty neat though, make them have specific ingame names for fun 09:48 personally I don't startscum besides tournament tricks, but I have no issues with the mechanic itself 09:49 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) was given Hunting Horn, on T:2897 09:50 all roles should start naked and all stats locked in to a predetermined value. startscum issue solved 09:50 ^ tournament mode 09:50 and in zen mode so you can't use infravision to gain an advantage 09:51 yeah 09:51 <{Demo}1> good idea 09:51 aosdict we could do something like that for tnnt 09:52 would be nice to not see 65% of all games played not be startscummed 09:52 - one 'not' 09:52 <@Tone> A conduct for auto rerolling would probably be a deterrent for people to use it instead of rerolling manually 09:52 <{Demo}1> heres how u make tnnt fair, every game starts as polyinit wumpus 09:52 if {Demo}1 said it was a good idea, you KNOW its solid 09:53 * K2 passes {Demo}1 a jolt cola and a box of twinkies 09:53 <@FIQ> @Tone are you saying most startscummers would be averse to have it mentioned? 09:53 If you lock in starting stats and inventory, you get people start-scumming for a magic marker speed boots in the first room. 09:53 <{Demo}1> twinkies aren't elite enough, need zingers 09:53 ^ or 09:54 you could set the starting room to never have anything spawn in it except the upsatirs and yourself 09:54 <{Demo}1> make the whole first 4 dungeons not spawn with anything 09:54 <{Demo}1> no monsters, no items, no dungeon features, no nothing 09:54 <{Demo}1> then u cant startscum 09:54 {Demo}1 pro mode - box of ho-ho's 09:55 <{Demo}1> i don't really like hohos they don't have enough not so sweet to cancel out the super sweer 09:55 omg... ho-ho's are the nectar of the gods 09:55 <{Demo}1> really in the mood for chicken wings for breakfast 09:55 or you just remove all randomness - everyone gets the same seed. 09:55 <@Tone> @FIQ I don't know if it would be most, but there would be some number of players who would just start scum without the autoroller to avoid that mention, yes. I do think there are a lot of players who would enjoy this either way though; startscumming wizards and such is quite popular in general 09:55 (not an actual suggestion) 09:56 <@Tone> I think people who want to start scum to do a difficult conduct like a speed run or foodless might avoid it though for fear of invalidating their accomplishment 09:56 <@FIQ> fh wiz actually had its inventory cleaned out of randomization 09:56 <@FIQ> But to compensate they got more spells 09:57 <@FIQ> And the spells are still random 09:57 @Tone you cant plan and tweak things to cover every players preferences or motivations. but we can try to discourage most startscummers 09:57 i'd settle for most 09:57 <@bubbles> rerolling is lame 09:57 <@bubbles> if you want to reroll just #quit start 09:57 <@bubbles> it takes like 5 seconds 09:57 <@bubbles> no 09:57 <@bubbles> 1 second 09:57 <@FIQ> @K2#0000 easiest way to do that: force people to wait 5min between each game 09:57 less than that with a script. ask @ShivanHunter 09:57 <@FIQ> Please do not do this 09:57 <{Demo}1> no, 4-9 seconds on hardfought 09:57 hah no way 09:57 <{Demo}1> so k2 doesnt aggro 09:58 or just a secret starscum script that was done with nodehack 09:58 <@bubbles> I mean for tournaments using a fixed seed for the starting char and then reseeding on turn 1? 09:58 <@bubbles> Then everyone starts with the same stuff 09:58 <@bubbles> Means wiz will always start with the same shit but who cares? 09:58 FIQ: AceHack had that. It was mildly controversial, IIRC. 09:58 <@bubbles> rip barb with 2h sword 09:58 <@bubbles> but again, who cares 09:58 <@FIQ> @bubbles my healer startscum macro takes roughly 1s per re-roll 09:59 the sad bit - the vast majority of startscummed games are from just a handful of people. but it inflates the xlogfile, makes stats look shitty, and adds a bunch of junk dumplog files to the server which eats up volume space 09:59 <{Demo}1> its slower than manual but just point it at an alt account and play some other variant while u wait to get the desired setup for whatever 09:59 newbie kinda question...what's start scumming? 09:59 I mean, by AceHack standards it was highly controversial, but you know, AceHack didn't make a lot of controversial changes. 09:59 <@bubbles> shadow start, check gear/stats #quit 09:59 <@bubbles> repeat until you get what you want 09:59 ah. gotcha. 09:59 <@bubbles> e.g. if you want to play a priest with +ofIdentify 09:59 err acehack had a lot of controversial decisions 09:59 shadowcat: That's where you start a whole bunch of games, with no intention of actually playing most of them, in order to get some specific start condition. 09:59 stenno1: Not compared to most variants. 10:00 for example removing floating eye 10:00 removing myst. force 10:00 <@bubbles> demo I lost a super good hlf monk the other day by casting stone to flesh on a statue of an elder priest ๐Ÿ˜ฆ 10:00 <@Tone> K2: Scumming in a tournament is one thing, but if someone just enjoys playing the game like that then I don't see anything wrong with it 10:00 oh, yeah...I used tod that in the old days...trying to get good strengths for my valks. Haven't done it in a long time though. 10:00 <@FIQ> AceHack had nh4 floating eyes 10:00 removing amnesia 10:00 <@bubbles> Tone: 100% agreed 10:00 tnnt has a trophy/achievement (i forget whcih excatly) that awards a player for not having startscummed ever, but thats not much of a deterent 10:00 Especially most variants in its day. Compare it to something like SporkHack, GruntHack, or even Un. 10:00 <@FIQ> The least controversial floating eye fix is to fudge the rng 10:00 @Tone i would never suggest this for regular play. tournament mode only 10:01 <{Demo}1> bubbles why would u cast that 10:01 <@bubbles> For tournaments you could fix the seed for chargen and update it every hour, or 10mins or something 10:01 <@FIQ> Make it so that a first attack vs a floating eye always misses 10:01 <@bubbles> Demo I was aiming at a differnet status but then realised it was a bad idea and pressed esc and it randomly hit the ep 10:01 <{Demo}1> oops 10:01 The least controversial floating eye fix probably would've been to just drastically reduce the length of time they paralized you for. 10:01 <@FIQ> Using the normal miss msg 10:01 <@bubbles> yeah oops 10:01 <{Demo}1> fiq, you should see dnh's fix 10:01 <{Demo}1> oh jonadab just said it 10:01 <@FIQ> Most players wont noticw 10:01 <{Demo}1> it's an amazing fix 10:02 <{Demo}1> I don't know why so many people are over complicating it 10:02 <@bubbles> huh til dnh changed floating eye 10:02 <@FIQ> @{Demo}1#0000 but with my fix you can pretend that you didn't change anything at all 10:02 <@FIQ> Players are just being lucky 10:02 <@Tone> K2: That's fine, sure. Tournaments can always be designed to reward/encourage certain types of play 10:03 <{Demo}1> fiq, thats a very dnd solution 10:03 <@Tone> I was just talking about adding a reroller to fiqhack or whatever :) 10:03 <{Demo}1> dm being like u hit it? nah u missed lol 10:03 <{Demo}1> and if they hit it again, fine u gave them a chance 10:03 <@FIQ> Heh 10:04 omg the sun 10:04 there's no window shade 10:04 i cant see my screen! 10:04 lol @ floating eye fix, slex also has that, I implemented that independently of dnh (didn't even know til now that dnh also had that fix) 10:04 save me tom cruise!! 10:04 When there's no window shade, no one can see your screen. 10:04 thats not a fix thats a crutch 10:04 <@FIQ> fiqhack floating eye fix is the best 10:04 ^ floating eye stuff 10:05 <@FIQ> they slow you down 10:05 I do like FIQHack's floating eye solution. Makes them actually interesting. 10:05 <{Demo}1> fiqhack floating eyes r op 10:05 <{Demo}1> just aoe get fucked zone 10:05 evilhacks magical eyes do that 10:05 ^ sporkhack 10:05 Eh, FIQHack floating eyes have nothing on dnethack footons. 10:06 <{Demo}1> dnh footons arent shit 10:06 <{Demo}1> floating eyes in fiqhack never stop being dangerous, and arguably are more dangerous later on 10:06 <@FIQ> speaking of fh aoe stuff 10:07 <@FIQ> I was amused the first time I saw someone make a zombie army in fh 10:07 <@FIQ> It wasn't even intentional lol 10:07 i had an army of tame zombies in fh. it was hilarious 10:08 and yeah, it wasn't intentional 10:08 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 10:08 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 10:08 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) entered the adventure town for the first time, on T:3745 10:08 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:10 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Croesus, on T:23214 10:11 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 7603 points, T:4847, killed by a giant spider, while fainted from lack of food 10:11 <@FIQ> @{Demo}1#0000 I once read a reddit thread of someone who splatted lategame due to floating eyes 10:11 <@FIQ> In fiqhack 10:12 <{Demo}1> yeah thats cause they are a super strong debuff 10:12 <{Demo}1> imagine being near a dragon and a floating eye 10:12 <{Demo}1> that would be so bad 10:15 EPI: demogorgon can summon floating eyes 10:15 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 570 points, T:1489, killed by a giant bat 10:15 <@FIQ> @jonadab#0000 in fh, he can iirc 10:15 EPI: In Gehennom, floating eyes can gate in Demogorgon. 10:15 <@FIQ> Floating eyes is on the summon nasties list 10:16 Ah. 10:16 So yeah, imagine being in a fight with Demo, and there are floating eyes. 10:16 if you are fighting demo without reflection, something is badly wrong 10:17 <{Demo}1> imagine ur fighting demo but im also there 10:17 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:4720 10:17 <{Demo}1> like, taunting and complaining or something 10:17 <{Demo}1> i have to deal with that every time i fight demo, imagine how it must feel for me 10:18 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18 if you are fighting demo without reflection, something is badly wrong โ† in vanilla, I don't agree; by the time you reach Gehennom and have the appropriate resistances, there are precisely two dangerous reflectable attacks 10:18 Sorry got distracted for a sec... I don't like the idea of rerolling. If you want to scum 1000 times to get an 11-conduct ascension, that should come with a 0.1% asc ratio. 10:18 both of which come from dragons, which you can wipe out if you want to 10:19 hothraxxa: Oh, hmm, good point. 10:20 ais523: true but a) no one does that and b) once you have reflection very few will give it up 10:20 I've done it fairly regularly 10:20 <@Tone> Reflection is valuable for protecting your inventory as well 10:20 generally speaking, if I don't find reflection pre-Castle I don't use it at all 10:20 There's no reason to give it up. You don't gain anything from NOT having reflection. 10:20 you're not exactly typical 10:20 jonadab: if it's an amulet, then you can switch to say lifesaving 10:20 jonadab: you gain the equipment slot you'd otherwise have to put your reflection gear in 10:21 Hmm, there's a thought: maybe there SHOULD be a benefit to not having reflection. 10:21 [hdf-us] [slshm] mac (Wiz Dop Fem Cha), 164 points, T:267, killed by an orcish spear 10:21 ais523: Yes, but there are adequate equipment slots really. 10:21 that said, in vanilla, there isn't quite enough equipment slot competition to go without 10:21 Which, there's an argument for introducing things like amulet of flying. 10:21 ais523: wands of lightning never go away ;) 10:21 Or cloak of half damage. 10:21 there is a wand of lightning and you cannot genocide that and if you don't reflect, have fun playing without your ring of levitation :P probably lots of fun 10:21 ^^^ 10:21 LarienTelrunya: why are you wearing it? 10:21 especially since some areas of the game kinda require levitation to be completed 10:22 Technically they don't. 10:22 It's just a thousand times easier than the alternatives. 10:22 <@FIQ> @ais523#0000 did you see my earlier proposal about re-rolling but making it a conduct of sorts 10:22 I guess you could get hit by /oL on the Planes, but there are few other situations where the wand is common, and you would be wearing it rather than having it bagged 10:22 @FIQ: no, but I implemented exactly that in AceHack a while back and it was hugely controversial 10:22 so I didn't do it again for NH4 because I wanted people to stop shouting at me 10:22 <@FIQ> In acehack it waasn't a conduct 10:22 reflection is garbage in variants with the wand balance patch anyway... you're probably actually better off without it. 10:22 it was meant to be, I think 10:23 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Car Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:2437 10:23 <@bubbles> I rarely have reflection after resistance 10:23 i thought number of rerolls were in xlog 10:23 <@FIQ> @Tangles#0000 reflection doesn't make things worse 10:23 <@bubbles> specco in dnh because it is nerfed 10:23 <@FIQ> just less useful 10:23 <@bubbles> and there are more gear competing for slots 10:23 one complexity is about what to do if a player quits during the rerolling phase 10:23 <@FIQ> a reflected wand of death isn't an instakill 10:24 <@FIQ> @ais523#0000 my idea was to make it so that you told the game what you wanted 10:24 @FIQ ok I was not sure. I certainly got the impression it was making it worse. 10:24 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Car Hum Mal Neu), 972 points, T:2646, killed by a dwarf lord 10:24 ^ 10:24 <@FIQ> and the game tried to give you it, re-rolling up to 100 times 10:24 It _feels_ to the player like reflection is causing them problems, under the WBP. 10:25 You have to think it through step by step to realize that it's actually not worse than what would've happened without it. 10:25 <@FIQ> but you still couldn't see the inventory 10:25 <@bubbles> WBP jonadab? 10:25 Wands Balance Patch 10:25 <@bubbles> ahh 10:25 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Arc Hum Mal Law), 388 points, T:921, killed by a little dog 10:25 <@bubbles> I was like water boot proofing? :thinkingface 10:25 <@FIQ> @jonadab#0000 maybe I should make reflection not cause an explosion? Except I kinda like that, it accidentally led to me making a new strat for Rodney 10:25 gtg now, back later 10:25 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 10:26 <@bubbles> byebyeame 10:26 <@bubbles> ugh spelling 10:26 <@FIQ> If constrained in a corridor with 1 or 2 Rodneys next to you, zap death into a wall 10:26 <@FIQ> Catch yourself in the explosion, killing both Rodneys 10:26 is she gone yet? i don't want her to know that i downloaded slex and added the wbp 10:26 FIQ: Or make the explosion happen whether there's reflection involved or not. WHen you get hit with a wand of lightning, you get caught in a lightning explosion, every time. 10:26 ^ EPI 10:27 <@bubbles> Needs a HHP too 10:27 <@bubbles> high heels patch 10:27 <@bubbles> or high heals patch, or high hp patch 10:27 <@bubbles> works for everything 10:27 @FIQ: in that case you might as well go the whole way, and implement some sort of point-buy system for starting inventory 10:27 @bubbles Nah, just remove all footwear from the game, and call it "Improved SLEX" 10:27 <@FIQ> some people also call wand rebalance the "wand destruction patch" 10:27 or at least, just estimate the probability of getting the starting items requested, so that there isn't RNG in the number of rerolls required 10:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] zoya (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3547 points, T:4397, killed by a gray unicorn 10:28 <@FIQ> despite the fact that item destruction has been nerfed twice 10:28 Or just standardize the starting equipment. 10:28 <@bubbles> bad name jona call it slassem, "super lotsa added stuff slex - extended magic" 10:28 <@bubbles> and stats! 10:28 <@FIQ> and is IMO too weak at this point 10:28 K2: On scumming wasting volume space by writing hundreds of useless dumplogs... We can always just not write a dumplog for any turncount < 5. There's probably never a good reason to keep them. 10:28 <@FIQ> even if some people still complain 10:29 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 cloak of the unheld one", on T:4723 10:29 <@bubbles> point buy is not a bad idea tbh 10:29 <@bubbles> as long as there is an option for rando as well 10:29 (where the number 5 is tunable to whatever we decide is fair). 10:29 <@FIQ> @Tangles#0000 unique deaths 10:29 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 boots of speed", on T:4727 10:30 Unique deaths usually go off the xlog, not the dumplog. 10:30 <@FIQ> I have a healer re-roll macro specifically designed for unique deaths 10:30 Tangles good idea 10:30 <@FIQ> Re-roll until wish, then wish for whatever I need for a death 10:30 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 red dragon scale mail", on T:4733 10:31 so make your macro wait $nodumplog+1, simple 10:31 and dumplogs arent really much of a concern as much as useless ttyrecs are - that's the big space waster 10:31 <@FIQ> It takes roughly 100 rolls 10:31 <@FIQ> Per wish 10:32 And yeah, ttyrecs are the space hog on a dgl-based server. 10:32 @FIQ you would still get the xlogfile entry with the unique death, just no dump showing the map, inventory, msg history etc. 10:32 Not sure if that would be acceptable. 10:32 <@FIQ> Ah 10:33 Yeah ttyrecs are harder to deal with, but I think for really short games, HTML dumplogs are probably the worst problem. 10:33 your fault! 10:33 dont allow players to quit unless they've gone at least 1000 turns hahahah 10:33 ^ kidding 10:34 Hmm actually I hacve nothing to back that up. The ttyrecs would still have a bit in them. 10:34 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Axus, on T:24378 10:36 -!- VaderFLAG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37 i've lost the plot. what are we trying to prevent here? 10:37 Tangles: The ttyrecs get all that boilerplate you don't read at the start of every game, yeah. 10:37 Yeah 10:37 Six paragraphs of blah blah blah Moloch blah blah. 10:38 force !legacy in sysconf 10:38 * K2 changes Moloch's name to 'Blah' 10:38 screw moloch. he never listens when i pray 10:38 <@FIQ> we doing speedrun strats now 10:39 (not quite true) 10:39 <@FIQ> when given the option, name your character a single letter 10:39 paxed - some players actually like to read that i think 10:40 <@FIQ> Not startscummers 10:40 -!- VaderFLAG_ has joined #hardfought 10:40 -!- VaderFLAG_ is now known as VaderFLAG 10:40 we dont care about startscummers 10:40 <@FIQ> correction: you don't care about startscummers 10:40 correction: no one but FIQ cares about startscummers 10:41 people should have fun in the way we want them to >:( 10:41 no unsanctioned fun allowed >:( 10:41 I just think changing the game itself to discourage or prevent scumming is going to cause other problems, and I'm trying to look for other ways to resolve the issues they cause . 10:41 <@bubbles> point buy or fixed starting gear 10:41 -!- tommo has joined #hardfought 10:42 <@bubbles> if there is any rng in it there is a reason to scu 10:42 <@bubbles> m 10:42 Brogue has fixed starting gear, and nobody ever complains about it. 10:42 They complain about other things, but not about that. 10:42 <@FIQ> Haha 10:43 <@FIQ> Are ally builds still disproportionally strong 10:43 you cant please everyone, and only a fool tries. 10:43 <@bubbles> I guess the harder thing would be fixing e.g. wiz start 10:43 <@bubbles> K2 but you can anger everyone! 10:43 some people will always complain about *something* 10:43 <@bubbles> Every role/race starts with 10 10 10 10 10 10 and a club 10:43 <@FIQ> brogue, the only roguelike where allies are genuinely good 10:43 <@FIQ> without it being the entire game 10:44 A small percentage of Brogue players feel that ally builds are strong, and swear by them. Personally I think they are weaksauce, _especially_ in 1.7.5 10:44 <@FIQ> @bubbles hm how about this 10:44 if every role started with a hat for its doggo, amateurhour would be happy 10:44 <@FIQ> have a point buy system, but also allow a random inventory 10:44 just in variants where zombies eat the brains of your starting pet and instakill them 10:44 <@bubbles> (I wasn't being serious about 10 + club) 10:44 <@bubbles> fiq yes, as long as the random inv can't be > the point buy 10:44 <@FIQ> but when randomizing, don't give a more valuable start than you can create manually 10:44 Unless you can find a legendary ally *and* a wand of empowerment in the same seed, you're better off with almost any other build. 10:44 <@FIQ> yes exactly 10:45 @bubbles Indeed. This is why I don't want to do this. Removing the randomness affects/ruins the the game for everyone (and doesn't resolve the issue because of starting room contents, smoky potions, etc). 10:45 <@FIQ> You can fold things like "don't allow poly and polycontrol together" within that system too 10:45 <@bubbles> yes floor1/room1 is a problem 10:45 Solution for starting room contents: no floor items on depth 1. 10:45 Tangles, bubbles you're probably correct 10:45 <@bubbles> personally I would like to have floor 1-3 be a role-specific branch but yeah 10:45 but it IS one solution 10:46 brb 10:46 <@bubbles> K2 yes - and for a tournament probably a good one 10:46 <@bubbles> I mean you can build point buy into the game itself you don't even need a ui 10:46 Hmm, starting in a role-specific branch, that is an interesting idea. 10:46 <@bubbles> add shops + some currency that can only be used in shops 10:46 -!- tommo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:46 <@FIQ> @jonadab#0000 iirc the game gurantees early empowerment 10:47 @FIQ No, empowerment is rare. 10:47 Now, in 1.7.4, you could always find it in vaults. But that was changed. 10:47 <@FIQ> I almost always get one within the first few floors 10:47 -!- Bliss56 has joined #hardfought 10:47 <@FIQ> Oh? 10:47 <@FIQ> When was last release 10:47 (Because that resulted in the tour-all-the-vaults-zap-every-free-empowerment-once strat, which was... terrible.) 10:48 <@bubbles> ugh I need to rewrite bubblehack again ๐Ÿ˜• 10:48 Depends what you mean by "last release". 10:48 The last release _from Pender_ was a couple of years ago, when he decided he'd rather be working on a platformer instead. 10:48 That was 1.7.5 10:48 <@FIQ> @jonadab#0000 the most recent release 10:48 <@FIQ> Ah 10:48 Which had some really good stuff in it but also a number of important bugs. 10:48 What you want, is Brogue CE. 10:49 Which is somewhat more recent, and has a lot of bug fixes. 10:49 I have _suggested_ guaranteeing precisely one wand of empowerment in the early game, but if Brogue CE has done that yet, I'm not aware of it. 10:50 <@Tone> There's also a vanilla version with just the bug fixes, which has been my preference lately 10:51 <@Tone> Yeah I'm pretty sure CE has guaranteed early empowerment and restored 1.7.4 ally frequency 10:51 Brogue has had issues balancing allies for a while 10:52 in the earlier versions, allies were overpowered because they ran off a different set of consumables from everything else, so you would run them in addition to a normal strategy, and being good at ally-wrangling was thus a huge advantage 10:52 empowerment was designed to avoid that issue, but it was still hard to get the numbers right, especially with little experience at how ally vs. everything else tradeoffs played out 10:53 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:25081 10:55 <@FIQ> @Tone they used to 10:55 <@FIQ> the last release, just a month ago, removed that again 10:55 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased spellbook of identify", on T:6406 10:56 is it still possible to take a wand from a vault, use it, then put it back? 10:56 [hdf-eu] [nh370] APic (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) genocided class L, on T:41775 10:56 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed the invisible Center of All, on T:25268 10:57 <@Tone> @FIQ Ah, I stand corrected then. If CE has vanilla ally mechanics then I might have to give it another look 10:57 <@Tone> Yes, I believe so ais523 10:57 <@FIQ> @Tone allies are still common (at least there's nothing about it in changelog) but empowerment is random again 10:59 I'm not sure whether I like "backtracking incentives" in Brogue (e.g. returning an item to a vault a couple of levels back, in favour of a new one 10:59 they make the game much harder to balance and are somewhat counterintuitive 10:59 but they do probably raise the skill ceiling a bit 11:02 [hdf-eu] [nh370] APic (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Orcus, on T:41979 11:07 <@Tone> Wands are probably the only item with that kind of incentive 11:07 <@Tone> Although if you identify something and don't like it you can take it back, or if you find a new item that synergizes better with something in the vault you could go back 11:08 <@Tone> My experience with the hunger clock in Brogue has made backtracking a high-cost proposition though 11:10 <@Tone> With that said, I actually went back to a D3 vault from D17 during my last game, using a health charm to fight off starvation. Linking starvation to health was an interesting design choice that allows the hunger clock to be circumvented in some cases 11:17 [hdf-eu] [nh370] APic (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) averted death, on T:42462 11:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dro-Rog Dro Fem Cha) was given the Lash of the Cold Waste, on T:2219 11:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Alasnuyo (Arc Hum Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:4264 11:21 !tell LarienTelrunya my robe turned into a robe of abominations and the description doesn't say what it does... 11:21 I'm on it, amateurhour. 11:21 #justslexthings 11:23 I think the starvation-health link is fairly common in computer games 11:23 it gives an easy way to prevent starvation just being an abrupt OHKO that may take people by surprise 11:23 [hdf-us] [un] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1555 points, T:3019, killed by a dingo, while praying 11:23 although, Pokรฉmon Mystery Dungeon apparently felt that that wasn't enough to warn people who'd forgotten to eat 11:24 not only does it recolour the whole interface while you're starving, it also puts a hard-to-dismiss message up three turns in a row when it starts 11:24 (in addition to disabling natural HP regeneration and draining 1HP per turn) 11:24 I wonder if playtesting found that to be necessary? 11:25 <{Demo}1> idk. if they were aiming for a younger demographic sometimes u need to tell kids stuff really hard 11:26 <{Demo}1> my experience with PMD was its really easy to get stuck in a boss fight you can't possibly win 11:26 <{Demo}1> and there's no exiting and trying to get stronger or anything 11:26 pokemon also did BEEP BEEP BEEP when you were low on health 11:26 <{Demo}1> ur just fucked 11:26 much to the dismay of speedrunners 11:27 lol 11:27 seriously thoguh, is PMD a good roguelike? 11:27 worth having a look at? 11:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] Alasnuyo (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 10601 points, T:4742, killed by a bolt of cold 11:27 <@Tone> I think hunger can actually be easy to miss in a lot of games, especially if certain actions like spellcasting can speed it up, so I'm not surprised if some games try to make it very obvious, although that certainly sounds like overkill 11:28 If NetHack did that, it would very probably introduce an Option to disable such Behaviour 11:29 <{Demo}1> its pretty bad imo but its still interesting 11:30 <@Tone> Nethack has rather subtle indications but you can tailor it with status hilited and forced message stops 11:31 ok 11:32 <@bubbles> it's weird that for the majority of race/role hunger rarely rarely becomes an issue for a more experienced player 11:32 <@bubbles> but when you first start 11:32 yeah statushilight + msgtype helps 11:32 <@bubbles> it feels like you are always dying to it 11:32 back 11:32 so I was thinking a bit 11:32 wouldn't the obvious solution to ally troubles in brogue 11:32 be to remove the wand of empowerment entirely 11:32 but allow the scroll of enchanting to be used on allies? 11:33 maybe remove potions of life too and allow you to use them on *yourself* 11:33 <@bubbles> !tell LarienTelrunya make gehenom be 50 soko levels in a row! 11:33 No worries, @bubbles, I've got this! 11:33 stenno1: yes and no 11:34 heh bubbles there's a race you can pick called sokosolver 11:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed spellbook of drain life", on T:50945 11:34 which turns most floors into soko floors 11:34 -!- Bliss56 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34 the regular PMD game is not very engaging if you want a roguelike experience (however, it has other great points -- just not for a roguelike "purist") 11:34 amateurhour: wow thats great actually 11:34 however, the postgame has special dungeons that essentially have permadeath 11:34 oh you dont have permadeath by default? 11:35 by forcing your level back to 1 or 5 depending on the game 11:35 <@Tone> @FIQ#0000 that's an interesting idea. or maybe have empowerment start at 0 or 1 charge but you can use enchanting to add a charge 11:35 yeah stenno1 I actually like it, it's eligible for hybrid races so atm I'm a sokosolver angel 11:35 <@Tone> I wonder how the potion of life / enchanting thing would impact the game 11:35 stenno1: the game has a main story, and a number of side dungeons; the main story effectively has a large number of dungeons with a save point in between each, there's permadeath inside each dungeon though 11:35 some of the side dungeons allow you to take things from the main game into them, some don't 11:36 aah i see 11:36 ais523: not sure if I'd regard is as permadeath since you keep experience 11:36 thats more like a roguelite pseudopermadeath 11:36 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Aphrodite, on T:23598 11:36 e.g. necrodancer 11:36 well, necrodaner has two game modes 11:36 diamond progression is 100% irrelevant when it comes to "all dungeons" 11:37 it's only obtained in individual-levels, and only affects individual-levels 11:37 fwiw I consider Necrodancer to be not a roguelike for balance reasons, rather than permadeath or turn-based-ness reasons 11:37 what you mean? 11:38 you can complete it without ever improving your character: no gold, no picking up items, no healing, etc. 11:38 and good players can complete it consistently like that 11:38 this implies that the difficulty is based on what the player can do, not on what the character can do 11:38 compare NetHack, a level 1 character with only starting inventory is never going to be able to complete the Sanctum no matter how good the player is 11:39 (and only starting trinsics) 11:39 I think this is a fundamental difference between two genres of game 11:40 hmm interesting point 11:41 idk if i would agree with that 11:42 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Ang Mal Law) killed the Beholder, on T:45148 11:42 <{Demo}1> i love the is X a real roguelike argument 11:42 genres are important 11:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) destroyed Vis' ghost, the former Investigator, on T:1681 11:42 if you want to compare stuff (in general) 11:43 <{Demo}1> its just funny how esoteric it can get sometimes 11:43 I think it's perhaps pointless to argue about what the word "roguelike" should refer to, but identifying genres is more important because it helps you understand both how a game should be balanced, and what sort of games you'd enjoy 11:43 <{Demo}1> in some of the less clear cut cases 11:43 I've been spending the last few days playing Pathos 11:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dro-Rog Dro Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:4078 11:44 it's certainly interesting and has a far better UI for mobile than nethack ports have 11:44 ais523: thats true 11:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2742 points, T:1689, killed by a giant bat 11:44 but it also has glaring elements I miss from nethack 11:44 similar to music genres imo 11:44 is the UI linked to the lack of interactions between things? or are the two independent? 11:45 mobile nethack tries to give you access to all options with a virtual keyboard, which makes some things very annoying 11:45 pathos has a UI more similar to, say, mystery dungeon, in how input works 11:46 which works far better than mobile nethack's approach 11:46 I don't think you need to dumb down the game so much as pathos does to make a good mobile UI 11:46 however 11:46 they're fundamentally different games even if at times it's easy to confuse the 2 on casual play 11:46 there is a UI idea for NH4 that I came up with but am nowhere near being able to implement (both in terms of time to implement it, and in terms of a huge number of details that would need to be worked out) 11:47 which was based around noun-noun rather than noun-verb 11:47 (or NetHack's verb-noun) 11:47 items, map squares, equipment slots would be the nouns involved 11:47 noun-verb works much better for mobile than verb-noun which is the main issue I have with nethack apps etc 11:47 idk how noun-noun would work 11:47 this leads to a bigger TDTTOE issue than even NetHack's current interface 11:47 because the number of things you can express is much larger 11:48 e.g. kicking down a door would be "foot slot, door" 11:48 mhm 11:48 in some cases you seem to need two verbs (e.g. "give item to monster" / "throw item at monster") but that's rare and it wouldn't be too hard to disambiguate 11:49 currently trying to remember if noun-noun is ambiguous somewhere 11:49 ah 11:49 you were faster than me 11:49 it's not a great example, because current NetHack actually uses the same verb in both cases :-) 11:50 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) killed Medusa, on T:8402 11:50 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:50 I guess "place potion on ground" versus "throw potion at ground" is an ambiguity using the same nouns and two different verbs, where both actions are possible in current NetHack 11:51 [hdf-eu] [dnh] fxenakis (Wiz Hlf Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:6563 11:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dro-Rog Dro Fem Cha) was given the Golden Sword of Y'ha-Talla, on T:6188 11:57 <@bubbles> Have a throw slot and a drop slot 11:57 <@bubbles> Item + throw slot. Throw slot + monster 11:57 <@bubbles> Etc 12:03 That's basically making verbs into slots. 12:03 jonadab: [backscroll] probably the LEAST controversial floating eye fix is to recolor them to something more visible :) 12:04 (also, xnh joins the nerfed-floating-eye-paralysis-and-didn't-know-others-did-it gang) 12:04 -!- telegarn has joined #hardfought 12:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dro-Rog Dro Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:6642 12:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2680 12:06 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 premium heart", on T:9119 12:06 ais523: noun-noun seems to me to be kinda unworkable because there are quite a lot of cases where you can't fully describe an action with two nouns 12:06 it seems like it'd need to be at minimum noun-verb-noun 12:07 s/fully/fully and unambiguously/ 12:08 when you include body parts as nouns, most actions become unambiguous I think 12:08 although probably not all 12:08 are you making some nethack action assembly language? 12:09 aosdict: some people consider floating eyes a punishment for playing too quickly; those people normally like them to be hard to see and massively punitive if you hit them 12:09 I don't agree with this reasoning, but can recognise why some people would 12:09 amateurhour: it's a hypothetical UI streamlining 12:09 incidentally, this is what inspired the whole 21slot thing, so that you weren't sharing letters between items and other sorts of noun 12:12 <{Demo}1> we don't need UI just natural thought processing 12:13 unfortunately the peripherals for that aren't widely available yet 12:14 although, hmm, a voice-activated NetHack would be interesting (probably unplayable, but interesting) 12:14 <{Demo}1> would be way too slow 12:14 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) was given their Quest, on T:9928 12:14 <{Demo}1> I can't talk fast enough to describe the actions I want to take 12:18 ais523: someone tried to play fiqhack like that once iirc 12:19 there's a twitch stream 12:19 I forgot who did though 12:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:4290 12:23 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) had a pair of fencing gloves entrusted to him by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:26759 12:23 <{Demo}1> I wish I used my feet while computing 12:24 <{Demo}1> just feels like a waste cause I never have enough hands 12:24 <{Demo}1> and my feet aren't doing anything 12:24 the inventor of the mouse actually tried out a number of different control schemes before settling on the mouse 12:24 <{Demo}1> at the very least, maybe some sort of pedals that do something would be nice 12:24 and one of them was foot-controlled 12:25 some speedrunner use foot pedals to control their timers / other things that are "outside the game" but they want to do in parallel to the game 12:25 so that they can devote their hands to controlling the game they're playing 12:25 <{Demo}1> ah makes sense 12:26 <{Demo}1> i just wish i could work my feet into my daily workflow 12:26 <{Demo}1> feel like I could get more done 12:26 <{Demo}1> like small amount of time saved but it would add up 12:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:5383 12:27 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) became Chih Sung-tzu's Envoy of Balance, on T:26996 12:28 https://www.amazon.com/slp/usb-foot-pedal/d3yw6u8bova853g 12:28 get one of those and bind to something? 12:29 hmm interesting 12:29 some roles' stat distribution is more random than others 12:29 I never knew this 12:29 a knight's attributes is almost entirely fixed 12:29 it's easy to miss things about how stats work in NetHack, because they mostly don't matter much 12:29 aosdict: Ok, yes, but that fixes approximately nothing, because there are corridors. 12:30 while a rogue is very random 12:30 strength has some relevance early-game, and max hp is massively relevant, and int is important for wizards due to hungerless casting 12:30 but everything else is unlikely to make a fundamental difference to how the game plays out 12:30 if I were to do point buy, I'd probably just leave it as-is except that you can customize where the remaining points go 12:31 the inevitable issues that arise from "dump stats" should be fixed, not by making different stats cost more or less, but by making different stats more or less useful 12:32 one idea I had, inspired from dnh's ally limit of cha/3, was to allow you to recruit peaceful monsters as "pets" with a charisma roll 12:32 and only allowing you to roll once for each monster 12:32 I also considered balancing charm monster around cha as well to some extent 12:33 And make your HP regen rate depend almost entirely on Con ? 12:33 that is already the case 12:33 in fiqhack 12:33 Ah. 12:33 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) destroyed qt's ghost, the former Sightseer, on T:1724 12:33 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) murdered Smut, his faithful kitten, on T:1724 12:34 [hdf-us] [evil] telegarn (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:35567 12:34 I should get back to playing FIQHack at some point. 12:34 But I also need to play Un. 12:34 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 788 points, T:1731, killed by strangulation, while praying 12:34 And for some reason, there are people who think I should work on Fourk from time to time. 12:34 your HP regen per turn is 0.03*XL + 0.03*(Con-5) + 0.33 for healers + 1 with the regen trinsic 12:34 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 27 points, T:342, killed by a newt 12:35 with a mincap of 0.01 12:35 <@bubbles> Demo}1: i just wish i could work my feet into my daily workflow -> go for a walk 12:35 <@bubbles> ๐Ÿค” 12:35 (only possible to reach for a XL1-3 non-healer without regen trinsic with 3-5 con) 12:36 aosdict: apparently at one point I changed eregen slightly to depend less on wis but more on XL 12:36 <@bubbles> only allowing one roll for taming is pretty standard dnd rules (once you win a saving throw versus an effect you cannot be affected by it again for 24hrs) 12:36 probably due to how ridiculously easy wis is to max out 12:36 does xnh use the old or new formula? 12:36 >Energy regen tweaked slightly: 0.02*Wis instead of 0.03*Wis and 0.04*XL instead of 0.03*XL. 12:37 <@bubbles> meh just whack everyone's hp regen up tons! 12:38 <@bubbles> scale it on hunger 12:38 Have a regen/hunger switch 12:38 Either you don't regen (but you don't get hungry) or you regen a lot but need a ton of food 12:38 <@bubbles> burn more hunger to gain regen? 12:38 bubbles: yep 12:38 <@bubbles> like an intrinsic ring of regen 12:38 <@bubbles> I would still burn hunger for other stuff but yeah at a much reduced rate 12:39 <@bubbles> also give a penalty to combat rolls while regenerating 12:39 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided two random monsters from class L, on T:27191 12:39 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided two random monsters from class L, on T:27192 12:39 <@bubbles> (possibly just automatically turn of regen when in combat) 12:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) consulted the Oracle, on T:7131 12:39 @bubbles I think fh regen is much better than vanilla, but I have an obvious bias 12:40 in vanilla, earlygame regen is too lsow 12:40 however, lategame regen is too fast 12:40 this is due to the somewhat bizarre regen formula 12:40 i agree about the lategame regen 12:40 iirc at 11 con, you regen 1HP every 3 turns 12:41 at 12 con you regen d12 HP every 3 turns 12:41 the threshold might be different, but yeah this is how it works more or less 12:41 ^ latergame that is (after XL10 iirc) 12:41 <@bubbles> does lategame regen actually make anything harder/easier? 12:41 <@bubbles> I mean you can nerf regen based on having the amu 12:42 <@bubbles> usually stuff that kills you kills you in a few turns 12:42 <@bubbles> so 5 turns of healing is giving you +30 max effective hp 12:42 <@bubbles> no 12:42 <@bubbles> +1 12:42 <@bubbles> +10 * 12:42 -!- tommo has joined #hardfought 12:43 -!- shadowcat has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44 [hdf-us] [evil] nabru (Inf Orc Fem Una), 347 points, T:568, killed by a gnome lord 12:44 ah here is the formula: at XL10+ you renerate d(Con) every 3 turns but not more than XL-9 unless Con is 12 or less, in which you always heal 1. On top of this, you also regen 1HP the turns you don't regen if you have the Regeneration trinsic 12:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed amulet of reflection", on T:11534 12:45 this explains why the trinsic is mostly harmful lategame since it increases hunger drain but barely affects your regen 12:45 > recruiting peacefuls as pets with a charisma roll but only once per monster <-- YANI 12:45 before XL10, this is your regen speed, whatever that means: 1HP if this is true: if (!(g.moves % (long) ((MAXULEV + 12) / (u.ulevel + 2) + 1))) 12:45 I can't translate this to actual words without having a look at what the results are 12:45 Anyone got a link to the SWAGGGINS bot post, please? 12:46 hp regen having a con based pivot point is one of the stupidest formulas 12:46 <@bubbles> does lategame regen actually make anything harder/easier? โ† it matters somewhat when surrounded by weak monsters, at that point it's relevant whether your regen outpaces their damage 12:46 I can't imagine regeneration ever being the best use of a ring finger late game 12:46 currently being surrounded by weak monsters late-game is a mostly irrelevant circumstance 12:46 =oRegen isn't useful late-game because it has a very minor effect in comparison to natural regen 12:47 Pinkbeast: https://pellsson.github.io/ 12:47 Thanks. 12:47 [hdf-us] [nh4] Chapolin (nabru) (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 5398 points, T:141, quit 12:47 ais523: yes, unless you're encumbered, it will merely increase your overall regen by +2HP every 3 turns 12:47 i don't think i've ever used a ring of regen 12:47 -!- tommo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:47 (except for polyfodder) 12:47 on top of d(Con) (assuming your con is >12 which is likely true) 12:48 =oRegen is useful as a renewable source of healing in the early game 12:48 in fiqhack, I made regen a linear formula based on constitution, XL, whether or not you're a healer, and the regen trinsic 12:48 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:48 it's basically identical to the old energy regeneration formula 12:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (10 times), on T:70267 12:49 that I made 12:49 (the new one has a very subtle difference to make wisdom matter less) 12:49 ais523: This is why =regen should be a chargeable ring, so that in the late game, when you can afford to spend charging scrolls on it, it becomes more powerful. 12:50 that could be interesting but would probably make it too strong 12:50 jonadab: I thought it might work better if it scaled with natural regeneration 12:50 so that it always has a noticeable effect even late in the game 12:50 double regen speed? 12:50 That could work. 12:50 although it should still have a floor, so not a pure doubling 12:50 maybe double + add 1 12:51 then you could reduce natural regen somewhat to compensate, especially as it's too fast late-game as it is 12:51 * jonadab nods. 12:51 <{Demo}1> dnh reduces natural regene insanely 12:51 <{Demo}1> like, its 1/3 of vanilla now i think 12:52 in fiqhack, with 18 con at XL14 you get 0.96HP/turn 12:52 dnethack's late-game balance is too different from vanilla to be a useful comparison point for things like this. 12:52 hmm, isn't it the case that for /most/ things in NetHack, the character's power ramps up faster than the difficulty does? 12:52 1.96HP/turn with the ring of regen 12:52 oh, so it's pretty much a doubling anyway 12:53 ideally the difficulty increases slightly faster than the character's power 12:53 in vanilla with 18 con at XL14, you get on average 1.67HP/turn 12:53 2.33HP/turn with regen trinsic 12:53 aosdict: Yes, that would be the Brogue difficulty curve. 12:54 in fiqhack with 18 con at XL30, you get 1.44HP/turn, 2.44HP/tur with regen trinsic 12:54 one roguelike balance concept I've been thinking about is the "final dive" 12:54 in which you do unsustainable things (like using consumables faster than you find them) because the game is about to end 12:54 <{Demo}1> yes 12:54 in vanilla with 18 con at XL30, you get on average 6HP/turn, 6.66HP/turn with regen trinsic 12:54 <{Demo}1> i love that shit 12:54 <{Demo}1> the dive back down its like do i kill this guy or sidestep him cause it doesnt matter 12:55 <{Demo}1> and its like damn i can do shit that would make 0 sense to do in the rest of the game 12:55 in my only PMD2:ZIS ascension, my final dive was over half the length of the dungeon 12:55 <{Demo}1> cause its fucking go time 12:55 because the difficulty in that game ramps up so fast 12:55 I wasn't exploring levels, just trying to find the stairs before encountering monsters, for around 50 levels' worth 12:56 the vanilla regen is also problematic IMO because it's utterly random 12:56 you can regen 0.33HP/turn too at XL30 with 18 con, or 18HP/turn 12:57 since it's d(con) with an XL threshold you never reach at XL30 12:57 <@bubbles> but again 12:57 <@bubbles> your regen would have ot be MEGA 12:57 <@bubbles> for it to actually matter in a sticky situation 12:57 <@bubbles> where a sticky situation usually lasts on the order of 10 turns 12:58 an additional +120HP or -60HP across 10 turns is very significant 12:58 <@bubbles> surrounded by weak monsters who cares, they will barely hit you due to AC, and likely hit you for very little even if they pass 12:58 oh wait nvm I miscalculated 12:58 <@bubbles> what max hp are you looking at though? 12:58 +40 vs -20 12:58 <@bubbles> adn isn't it ever 3 turns? 12:59 still significant 12:59 for 10 turns 12:59 @bubbles yeah 12:59 3-4 sets of regen 12:59 do I even attempt astral while having to do something else? 12:59 with XL30 with 18 con 12:59 I think not. 12:59 YANI: HP regen is scaled down to zero after you take damage (or a hit that deals no damage), then gradually scales back up to its full rate over a span of a couple hundred turns. 12:59 can give 3-54HP or 4-72 12:59 <@bubbles> aos I think a game did that somewhere 12:59 the difference is huge 13:00 <@bubbles> and it is a reasonable impl 13:00 <@bubbles> fiq yes I dislike dHP for regen 13:00 <@bubbles> just apply the average consistently 13:00 <@bubbles> Otherwise as a player you have to assume it will be the min 13:00 clearly vanilla should take my superior approach 13:00 <@bubbles> and plan around that, which is no fun 13:00 on both regen and eregen 13:00 word 13:00 :P 13:00 I think inconsistent HP regen also leads to some gotchas 13:01 is vanilla eregen still awful 13:01 aosdict: 13:01 like, you thought you were doing okay on astral... then you rolled low on regeneration for 3 turns and now you're dead 13:01 <@bubbles> yep, it sucks 13:01 FIQ: It hasn't changed since 3.4.3 to my knowledge 13:01 <@bubbles> as a player you SHOULD plan for 3 low rolls 13:01 <@bubbles> but then it is lame and you just have to play super super conservative 13:01 yeah overpreparing 13:02 <@bubbles> no (intrinsic) regen in-combat is 100% a good thing I think 13:02 4 "oLS? Not enough. 13:02 <@bubbles> I mean or say fuck it and have no natural regen outside of some artifacts 13:02 <@bubbles> would make the player have to play EVEN MORE conservatively 13:03 <@bubbles> (but then I would give a lot more temp hp shields) 13:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Sam Hum Fem Law) attained the rank of Joshu, on T:12172 13:03 I made "oLS give a fixed amount of HP because I didn't like people treating them as automatic better-than-full-healing items. 13:03 <@bubbles> aos makes sense, I guess making them take longer to put on would have a similar effect? 13:04 <@bubbles> In general I think proactive play is more fun than reactive play, which is probably why I like binder so much, you have way way more buttons to press (more frequently) 13:04 <@bubbles> So you can have a lot more control over what is happening 13:04 <@bubbles> But who knows 13:05 <@bubbles> bubblehack is going through it's third rewrite so 13:05 I made "oLS give a fixed amount of HP because I didn't like people treating them as automatic better-than-full-healing items. โ† aww, using "oLS as a "oFH is one of my most common Astral strategies nowadays 13:06 they're more powerful than FH. they have no limit to how much HP they'll give back 13:06 <@FIQ> could also just limit max hp 13:06 right, "full healing" is a bit of a misnomer 13:06 <@FIQ> to 400 13:07 [hdf-eu] [dnh] fxenakis (Wiz Hlf Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:12128 13:07 although I'd generally have less than 200 maxHP when doing this anyway 13:07 [hdf-eu] [dnh] fxenakis (Wiz Hlf Fem Cha) was given the Lifehunt Scythe, on T:12196 13:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Swn Fem Cha) averted death, on T:29202 13:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Swn Fem Cha) killed Warden Arianna, on T:29207 13:08 anyway, amulet of life saving is already super powerful in that it makes you NOT DIE. doesn't need to also be a full heal 13:08 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1180 points, T:2749, killed by a giant rat 13:08 what is the cap on !oFH, anyway? I keep forgetting whether it's 200 or 400 13:08 400 13:08 aosdict: my thought is that often a game can become better-balanced by making a powerful item more versatile, so that there's no longer an obvious way to use it 13:09 <@FIQ> @aosdict#0000 iirc adom "oLS merely just stops the last hit 13:10 ais523: I think that's difficult to do properly, as more often it just makes the item more overpowered. 13:10 <@FIQ> there's an artifact "oLS that acts like NetHack's and also gives +2 in all attributes iirc, but the normal amulet only stops the killing blow 13:11 aosdict: an item being overpowered doesn't necessarily matter for balance purposes if it's in short supply 13:11 <@FIQ> wishing 13:11 for wishes, you want it to compete with other top-level wishes, rather than competing with typical items 13:11 -!- telegarn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11 how does a "oLS compare to say, a magic marker? most people are going to prefer the marker wish 13:12 a second (oMM is preferable to a second "oLS 13:12 <@FIQ> "oLS is very easy to acquire with polypiling 13:12 oh right, polypiling 13:12 <@FIQ> markers are not 13:12 yeah "oLS is very rarely wished for 13:13 because what else are you going to do with all those amulets versus poison and of change and, etc 13:13 <@FIQ> (and even if you do get them, they're worse than natural markers) 13:13 come to think of it, the main issue with polypiling is probably the random nature of it, which means that there's not much strategy in the /outcome/ of polypiling 13:13 either you polypile or you don't, there's some skill in setting up the piles but it's minor 13:13 why didn't I polypile... 13:14 (he says, standing at the portal to astral) 13:14 I often play polypileless because you really don't need both polypiles and wishes, and wishing is more interesting 13:14 the strategy involved with polypiling also factors in stuff like "should I do it now or save my polywand charges for when I have more things". which isn't a lot of strategy but it is some. 13:14 yes 13:15 <@FIQ> @ais523#0000 your idea of more versatility is what I and some other variants did to "fix" dragon scale mail 13:15 [hdf-us] [evil] nabru (Inf Orc Fem Una), 4117 points, T:3086, killed by a red naga 13:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Dro-Rog Dro Fem Cha) was given the Lifehunt Scythe, on T:11320 13:15 <@FIQ> buffing all the other DSM colors 13:15 polypiling would probably be most interesting if it created second-tier items 13:15 things that often won't be part of an asc kit but are nonetheless useful 13:16 <@FIQ> so no polypiling magical items? 13:16 YANI: assuming dtsund-DSM implementation: Give FIQHack DSM buffs if and only if you are wearing dragon-scaled armor and scales of the matching color in the cloak slot 13:16 it'd depend a lot on item type I think 13:16 like, nonmagical wands aren't useful at all 13:17 but there are plenty of situationally useful wands that people don't aim for but can be interesting to use, like /oSDD 13:17 <@FIQ> when I implemented master wand effects 13:17 <@FIQ> my aim was to make every wand useful 13:17 <@FIQ> I think I succeeded 13:17 there are only two nonmagical wands, though, neither of which does anything 13:17 <@FIQ> but few people bother going for master wands even if they can 13:17 actually, the meat stick is a comestible, I think? 13:18 so only one nonmagical wand 13:18 <@FIQ> yeah and it doesn't generate randomly 13:18 <@FIQ> so polypiling doesn't give it 13:18 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1298 13:18 <@bubbles> polypoling is boring 13:18 <@bubbles> I have used it in none of my ascensions I want to say 13:19 zero fun sir 13:19 <@bubbles> also more wands are lame because they take an inventory slot 13:19 I used it once or twice 13:19 <@bubbles> or you put them in bag and never remember to take them out 13:19 one of these times, i really needed a ring of levitation 13:19 <@FIQ> I use polypiling sometimes 13:20 <@bubbles> It hink the reason I hate it is not using it is a mega handicap comapred to abusing it 13:20 <@FIQ> Mostly if there's something I really want 13:20 <@bubbles> same with gypsies in slashem 13:20 <@bubbles> or sokoban in general 13:20 <@FIQ> But don't want to spend a wish on it 13:20 how can you abuse sokoban? 13:20 <@FIQ> gypsies in slash'em is just slash'em balance being broken in general 13:20 <@bubbles> err use, not abuse in that case 13:21 <@FIQ> @klintos#0000 too rewarding for too tedious play 13:21 <@bubbles> soko is a chore because not doing it is massively suboptimal 13:21 I don't think I've ever been able to skip it. I don't know how to play :) 13:21 <@bubbles> in the same way that not doing polypiling is massively suboptimal (in theory) 13:21 <@FIQ> what if the reward for soko was 3 potions of gain level 13:21 <@bubbles> I would never do it 13:21 <@FIQ> and the random ring and wand was removed 13:22 <@bubbles> or wait until I didn't care about luck 13:22 <@bubbles> blast way through 13:22 <@bubbles> etc 13:22 I wouldn't bother with it, too 13:22 <@bubbles> Maybe I don't poly in dnh as much because there is more dungeon so more chance to get more than enough of what you need 13:22 <@FIQ> in adom, polypiling can give you wishes :D 13:22 <@FIQ> only once though 13:23 <@bubbles> My second binder ascension was wishless/polyless/ ALMOST genoless 13:23 <@bubbles> I am pretty annoyed about that, I used a scroll of geno way early on 13:23 <@bubbles> That was the one where I cancelled myself by NOT HAVING LOCKED INVENTORY SLOTS 13:23 <@bubbles> omg please implement those chris please please 13:23 <@FIQ> why would you not have fixing 13:23 <@FIQ> that's like 13:23 <@bubbles> wot? 13:23 <@bubbles> This is a thing? 13:23 <@FIQ> very very painful 13:24 <@riker> yeah lmao 13:24 <@bubbles> wtf 13:24 <@riker> perm_invent iirc 13:24 <@riker> maybe no underscore 13:24 <@FIQ> it's also one of few things where the default is the sane option iirc 13:24 perm_invent is a display thing that puts the inventory into a permanent window 13:24 <@riker> dnh is buggy, turn it on in RC and then also on in game 13:24 <@bubbles> no not perm_invent 13:24 fixinv is the one that stops items moving around 13:24 <@FIQ> @riker fixinv is the "lock items to a letter" 13:24 <@riker> ah 13:24 <@riker> yeah fixinv is on for me 13:24 <@bubbles> ok with fixinv: 13:25 <@FIQ> perm_invent is the sidebar 13:25 <@bubbles> I have 52 items, stetho on 'c' 13:25 <@bubbles> I drop the stetho 13:25 <@bubbles> I pick up a non-mergeable item 13:25 <@bubbles> does that "knapsack full" or does it overwrite 'c'? 13:25 <@FIQ> it overwrites c 13:25 <@FIQ> what fixinv does 13:25 <@bubbles> I want LOCKED inv slots in my config 13:25 the letters are stored on the items, not in the inventory 13:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed post163's ghost, the former Empiric, on T:978 13:25 <@bubbles> That's default behaviour isn't it? 13:25 so if you pick the stethoscope back up, it goes into 'c' unless there's another item in 'c' at the time 13:25 <@FIQ> is lock each item you're carrying into a specific letter 13:25 in which case it has to move 13:25 <@FIQ> I assumed this is what you meant 13:26 -!- telegarn has joined #hardfought 13:26 I think @bubbles wants a way to prevent certain inventory slots being used at all 13:26 <@FIQ> with fixinv disabled, dropping the item on c will shift everything 13:26 except by the item that belongs there 13:26 <@FIQ> putting another item on c 13:26 <@bubbles> ok yeah I have fixinv 13:26 i.e. "b" is ALWAYS BoH 13:26 <@FIQ> which is insane 13:26 so that fixinv replacements never happen 13:26 <@bubbles> I don't want fixinv (I do, but Iw ant more) 13:26 <@bubbles> ais exactly 13:26 <@bubbles> in my config I want to write: 13:27 <@bubbles> OPTIONS=fix_slot:regex:char 13:27 <@riker> bubbles, you know how to code 13:27 <@FIQ> @ais523#0000 I think a better alternative than to forbid it entirely would be to give a prompt 13:27 <@bubbles> Riker omg the inv code 13:27 <@riker> and you probably know how to use git 13:27 <@riker> :) enjoy 13:27 actually, the regex and config code would be the hard part of this 13:27 insert overlay "3 Years Later..." 13:27 <@bubbles> Riker I think the first thing I would want to do is fix broken mapgen (just pathfind from < to > and regen on fail) 13:28 combined with issues like, what happens if you pick up a cursed loadstone at 51 slots + 1 locked slot 13:28 <@FIQ> also this is the kind of option where NH3 options is vastly superior over NH4 options 13:28 <@FIQ> or I'd have implemented it already 13:28 <@bubbles> I think regex is the best way to do it, otherwise informally id wouldn't work 13:29 just generalise autopickup exceptions 13:29 <@riker> easiest for the user probably 13:29 you need to do that for menucolors anyway 13:29 so may as well add an inventory slot lock at the same time 13:29 <@FIQ> hmm true 13:29 <@bubbles> You need pripority though 13:29 <@FIQ> so like 13:29 <@bubbles> or do you? ๐Ÿค” 13:29 <@FIQ> instead of just pickup, leave 13:29 <@FIQ> you also have color defining 13:29 <@FIQ> and letter assignment 13:30 <@FIQ> makes sense 13:30 <@FIQ> I'll do it 13:30 <@bubbles> Does that not overlap a lot with menucolors? 13:30 <@FIQ> and rename it "item preferences" 13:31 @bubbles: yes but NH4 doesn't have menucolors for this sort of reason 13:31 so this would be the menucolors replacement 13:31 <@FIQ> perhaps keep the autopickup exceptions option as well and menucolors 13:31 <@FIQ> to hint people used to NH3terms 13:31 <@bubbles> Ahhh 13:32 <@FIQ> but just alias them to the same thing 13:32 <@bubbles> I think failing to pick up a loadstone is fine 13:32 <@bubbles> it is basically doing the equivalent of a player saying "I will not pick up anything into my 'c' slot ever" 13:32 <@bubbles> It's not anything the player couldn't do themselves already, albeit very very tediously 13:33 <@FIQ> @bubbles maybe pick the item up 13:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 4116 points, T:2006, killed by a gnome 13:33 <@FIQ> but add a message that it was assigned a reserved slot 13:33 <@bubbles> For loadstone specifically yeah it might make sense 13:33 <@bubbles> it is already a "special" item regarding pickup 13:33 <@FIQ> and don't autopickup it 13:33 <@FIQ> loadstones respect autopickup exceptions 13:34 <@FIQ> why wouldn't it respect this too 13:35 <@bubbles> Along the same lines does #dip container -> container make sense? 13:35 <@bubbles> To transfer all the items? 13:35 <{Demo}1> oh god 13:35 <@bubbles> what's wrong demomo? 13:35 <{Demo}1> tip, dip, and rip, the three elementary container operations 13:36 <@FIQ> hahaha 13:36 <@FIQ> you can sip from "containers" too 13:36 <@FIQ> nethack calls that quaffing 13:37 tip, dip, rip, sip, flip, chip, clip 13:37 <@bubbles> pip the container to the goal 13:37 <@bubbles> whip the container that you are riding 13:37 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 3101 points, T:2727, killed by a fire ant 13:37 imps give lip 13:37 <@bubbles> I mean you can #loot a horse, why can't I #whip a bag?! 13:37 <@FIQ> nip the container in the bud 13:38 -!- telegarn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38 <@bubbles> feel like this might be... ip fraud ๐Ÿ˜Ž 13:39 <@bubbles> I didn't even realise fixinv was an option by the way, it is the only behaviour in bubblehack's inv code 13:39 <@FIQ> never seen anyone turn it off 13:40 <@FIQ> beyond "ooh what does this button do?" 13:40 mass chaos 13:40 <@bubbles> @riker what is the "GOLDOBJ" define? 13:41 <@FIQ> whether or not gold is real objects in the code or just pretend 13:42 <@FIQ> I don't know why !goldobj was ever a thing 13:42 can someone remind me how that works when there's a pile of gold sitting on the ground 13:42 and GOLDOBJ is off 13:42 (btw, GOLDOBJ as well as some other dated compile flags have been removed in 3.7 if not before then) 13:43 <@bubbles> make chris remove them from dnh! 13:43 <@FIQ> iirc there's a gold chain 13:43 <@FIQ> similar to object chain 13:43 <@bubbles> now I need to work out what MENU_TRAIDITONAL is 13:43 <@bubbles> is that a dnh thing or a nethack thing 13:44 <@FIQ> actually no there's probably just a gold amount for each square 13:44 <@FIQ> and no chain 13:44 <@FIQ> @bubbles nethack thing 13:44 <@FIQ> iirc it defines whether menus are hack-style or nethack-style 13:45 <@FIQ> traditional did not have menus beyond 'i'nventory and would instead draw in the message line iirc 13:45 <@bubbles> Ahh ok 13:46 <@FIQ> it made identify a huge PITA to use 13:46 <@bubbles> so I assume we are almost always != TRADITIONAL 13:46 <@bubbles> there is so much code inside the !GOLDOBJ it is crazy 13:46 <@FIQ> since you'd have to check first which letters you wanted to identify 13:46 <@FIQ> you couldn't press ? 13:47 <@FIQ> this is probably why the identify prompt has a multiselect 13:47 <@FIQ> rather than a more logical single-select 13:47 <@riker> you can probably just pick either goldobj or not goldobj 13:47 <@riker> dnh compiels with goldobj off, fwiw 13:47 <@bubbles> ... but y? 13:48 <@FIQ> main problem with goldobj is the added complexity of maintaining the older system 13:48 <@riker> why does it compiel with goldobj off? 13:48 <@riker> idk, it's easy to work with when not goldobj 13:48 <@riker> u.ugold / mtmp->mgold 13:48 <@FIQ> it was a define because it was untested 13:48 <@bubbles> Yeah it is tons of extra code to maintain? 13:49 <@FIQ> @riker it adds complexity to containers 13:49 <@riker> dnh keeps them both there because rarely do you actually have to mess with gold-giving functinos and its easy enough to stay compatible 13:49 <@FIQ> and level squares 13:49 <@riker> fiq: fair enough 13:49 <@riker> for bubhack probably just use GOLDOBJ 13:49 <@FIQ> both options need special cases 13:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:3778 13:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered a shop, on T:3778 13:49 <@riker> there's no real reason why not 13:50 <@riker> one day i'll go through and remove all the stupid outdated defines in dnh, be glad you don't have to deal with all of those :) (tourist, firearms, bard, etc.) 13:50 <@FIQ> gold can't be cursed (this used to be a a bug actually with 3.4.3 goldobj), assigned to an inv slot other than $ 13:50 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:2270 13:51 <@FIQ> But treating it seperate from an item requires a different set of special cases 13:51 [hdf-us] [ndnh] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3408 points, T:1807, killed by a boiling potion 13:51 <@FIQ> For when you want to affect both 13:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] Alasnuyo (Arc Hum Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3659 13:51 <@FIQ> @riker does 3.7 retain INVISIBLE_OBJECTS 13:51 <@riker> idfk but i'll check 13:52 no it does not 13:52 <@riker> no results for 'INVISIBLE_OBJ" in the source 13:52 <@FIQ> an invisible blindfold would be pretty useless :) 13:52 <@bubbles> ah yes addinv_core1 and addinv_core2 13:53 <@bubbles> my old favourites 13:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 4718 points, T:4019, killed by a snake 13:53 <@bubbles> slashem gives a to-hit bonus to invisible obvjects versus monsters who don't see invis!!! 13:53 <@bubbles> pretty cool 13:53 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 13:53 <@riker> yeah that's pretty funny 13:53 <@riker> i can't tell if i like hte idea of invisible objs or not 13:53 <@FIQ> it should give a to-hit penalty if you can't see it 13:53 <@bubbles> flags.invlet_constant == "fixinv"? 13:54 <@riker> fiq: i think it does 13:54 <@riker> 115: {"fixinv", &flags.invlet_constant, TRUE, SET_IN_GAME}, bubbles 13:54 <@FIQ> @riker on one hand I want to get rid of it to get cleaner code 13:54 <@riker> yeah, but it seems like an interesting gameplay idea 13:54 <@FIQ> but otoh, bringing it back later would be far harder 13:54 <@riker> emphasis on interesting - not sure how fun/balanced it is 13:54 <@bubbles> thanks riker 13:54 <@bubbles> can you do it as an oprop? 13:54 <@FIQ> teach monsters to zap trice corpses with invis 13:54 <@riker> afaict its' just "zap items with invis once you have see invis to make things better" 13:54 <@FIQ> :) 13:55 <@riker> bubbles, that is NOT what oprops are supposed to be fo r:/ 13:55 <@bubbles> riker that's true 13:55 <@bubbles> Also true 13:55 <@riker> fiq: get out of here with your monster AI improvements 13:55 <@riker> fiqhack shill smh 13:55 <@bubbles> But plenty of stuff in code is not "what it is supposed to be fore"! 13:55 <@riker> and? 13:55 <@riker> don't make it worse 13:56 <@FIQ> @riker I considered making monsters drop trice in pits 13:56 <@riker> ouch 13:56 <@riker> i feel like wielding is more efficient though 13:57 <@FIQ> another thing I wanted to do was to make giants dig pits if they could 13:57 <@FIQ> and if a hostile fell into them, throw a boulder at it 13:58 <@FIQ> hmm 13:58 <@FIQ> giants should be immune to pit traps 13:59 <@FIQ> but hurt still by stepping on spiked pits 13:59 <@FIQ> there should also be a hallu msg about accidentally stepping on lego 13:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 395 points, T:891, killed by a kitten 13:59 lol 14:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 256 points, T:417, killed by a bear trap 14:03 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided alhoons, on T:28192 14:03 <@bubbles> why does nethack not have an array for the player inv? 14:04 array? 14:04 why would you use an array for that? 14:04 <@bubbles> Because it avoids iterating through the items to find an item by slot? 14:04 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 12111 points, T:379, killed by a fox 14:05 <@riker> you shouldn't need to find an item by slot by iterating 14:05 <@riker> are you iterating and checking wornmasks? 14:05 <@riker> the code rn does a reasonably good job keeping uarm/etc. equal with the wornmasks, is that good enough? 14:05 <@bubbles> assigninvletter 14:05 <@bubbles> err, assigninvlet 14:05 <@riker> ah 14:06 <@bubbles> when you pick an item by slot in a menu 14:06 <@bubbles> ah I guess it makes a temp mapping 14:06 poly into a nymph, pick up infinite boulders. 14:06 <@bubbles> (unrelated to the assigninvlet) 14:06 <@bubbles> do boulders merge? 14:06 no 14:06 <@bubbles> so what letter do they get assigned? 14:06 # 14:07 <@bubbles> right so you need like 52+a few slots 14:07 <@bubbles> for gold as well 14:07 <@FIQ> someone will be upset if "a few" is a limit 14:07 <@bubbles> But it's hardcoded 14:07 <@bubbles> what else goes in #? 14:07 <@bubbles> What else goes in $? 14:07 <@FIQ> loadstones 14:07 <@bubbles> (I may be missing something fundamental here) 14:07 <@FIQ> also there's infinite # slots 14:08 <@bubbles> Ah they only appear in menus? 14:08 <@bubbles> (as actual letters) 14:08 <@bubbles> Can still do the 99.999% of cases with an array (I am not saying remove the linkedlist) 14:08 <@bubbles> but it's like one instance of 400 bytes that doesn't even need to be stored 14:09 <@bubbles> Doesn't matter 14:09 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:3847 14:09 <@FIQ> but why 14:09 <@FIQ> what is the purpose 14:09 <@bubbles> makes invlet assignment way easier! 14:10 you'd have to iterate the array anyway to find open slots 14:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Investigator, on T:3940 14:10 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) entered a temple, on T:3983 14:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:989 14:11 <@bubbles> paxed no: just ffsl 14:12 <@bubbles> bitfield to show presence 14:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2152 points, T:4290, killed by a killer bee 14:15 <@bubbles> anyway sorry, tangential 14:17 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) destroyed the Legion, on T:11688 14:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:15112 14:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Som (Rog Dro Fem Cha), 116985 points, T:17924, killed by a dreadblossom swarm, while paralyzed by a monster 14:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Sam Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (disenchanters), on T:15115 14:19 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19 -!- j_ has joined #hardfought 14:20 -!- j_ is now known as rebatela 14:26 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) killed Cerberus, on T:59326 14:27 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 14:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] Alasnuyo (Arc Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed mithril +3 Holy Moonlight Sword", on T:4342 14:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:3552 14:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered a temple, on T:3552 14:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Swn Fem Cha) became the Glory of Arioch, on T:32580 14:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Sam Hum Fem Law) endured an absurd aquatic ceremony, and now wields Excalibur, on T:16120 14:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 400 points, T:1207, killed by a contaminated potion 14:40 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed saddle", on T:30057 14:41 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 the rod of lordly might", on T:30069 14:42 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 36879 points, T:8182, killed by a werewolf 14:42 gdi a monster disintegrated my cloak and robe 14:43 why didn't reflection help? 14:43 -!- tommo has joined #hardfought 14:45 hm 14:45 TIL that exfat is no longer involved in problematic patents preventing widespread fat32-style support 14:46 bah. orctown again :/ 14:47 #quit 14:47 nope. will try to do orctown later 14:47 if anything, I might be able to convert the altar, since I haven't found any altars so far 14:47 -!- tommo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Swn Fem Cha) killed Shelob, on T:33311 14:51 [hdf-us] [evil] telegarn (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 271070 points, T:36739, killed by Yeenoghu, while paralyzed by a monster 14:54 <@bubbles> amateurhouir which variant 14:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3227 14:56 <@riker> !whereis amateurhour 14:56 @riker: [hdf-eu] amateurhour [slex]: (Mon Ang Mal Law) T:46370 The Dungeons of Doom level: 27 14:56 <@riker> god bless slex 14:56 <@bubbles> ๐Ÿ™‚ 14:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law) attained the rank of Fighter, on T:3284 14:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] nabru (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2273 points, T:3292, killed by a wolf 14:59 <@bubbles> what does "attained the rank of" mean? 15:00 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) entered Gehennom, on T:59332 15:01 -!- qt_ has joined #hardfought 15:02 levelled up to certain milestones bubbles 15:02 there's a title associated with certain xlvl 15:03 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Rank 15:03 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed fixed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:10 15:03 <{Demo}1> I'm a psionaut 15:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Swn Fem Cha) killed the high shaman of Moloch, on T:34393 15:14 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) wished for "magic chest", on T:31237 15:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Hea Hum Fem Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:59870 15:16 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:3834 15:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Swn Fem Cha) killed Lungorthin, on T:34847 15:19 -!- Menchers has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:23 <@bubbles> oh that's super spammy then 15:23 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 25196 points, T:1978, killed by a hill orc 15:23 <@riker> @bubbles yeah its funky 15:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 8089 points, T:5865, killed by a fire ant 15:25 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Hea Hum Fem Neu) bribed Baalzebub with 2199 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:60821 15:26 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) was given Quicksilver, on T:31837 15:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Swn Fem Cha), 868497 points, T:35561, killed by an invisible Nazgul 15:29 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) became literate by engraving "foo", on T:6584 15:30 [hdf-us] [xnh] every1 (Ran Gno Fem Neu) became literate by reading a tin label, on T:12718 15:30 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Bin Orc Fem Non) killed Oona, on T:34244 15:30 [hdf-eu] [nh370] etai (Val Hum Fem Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2438 15:31 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 15:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 15:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 462 points, T:943, killed by a kitten 15:36 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 15:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 15:39 [hdf-eu] [nh370] etai (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1606 points, T:2513, killed by a giant mimic 15:39 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Ang Mal Law) killed Lily, on T:50105 15:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grouchy (Sam Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Kokushu, on T:48086 15:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:7650 15:44 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Hea Hum Fem Neu) genocided vampire bats, on T:61828 15:44 GDI 15:45 -!- tommo has joined #hardfought 15:45 [hdf-eu] [slex] amateurhour (Mon Ang Mal Law), 935807 points, T:50363, killed by a monster (thoul), while paralyzed by a monster's passive attack 15:46 I was paralyzed for an insanely long time 15:46 angery 15:46 !lastgame amateurhour 15:46 amateurhour: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/a/amateurhour/evilhack/dumplog/1589035969.evil.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/a/amateurhour/slex/dumplog/1596329611.slex.txt 15:49 -!- Menchers has joined #hardfought 15:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2817 15:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) attained the rank of Student of Stones, on T:9671 15:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Hea Hum Fem Neu) genocided class V, on T:61899 15:57 -!- moon-child has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57 [hdf-us] [xnh] every1 (Ran Gno Fem Neu) attained the rank of Reconnoiteress, on T:13091 15:57 [hdf-eu] [evil] amateurhour (Sam Gia Mal Law), 1533 points, T:1815, killed by a little dog 15:58 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:10274 15:58 -!- moon-child has joined #hardfought 15:58 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered a temple, on T:10300 15:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:10620 16:00 -!- moon-child has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00 !tell K2 fix: remove random spell unmaintaining due to failure rate, since it existed to compensate for high failure rate on spells, and FIQHack n olonger has a spell fail rate 16:00 No worries, FIQ, I've got this! 16:01 you want me to fix fiqhack? 16:01 K2: Message from FIQ at 2020-08-05 16:00 EDT: fix: remove random spell unmaintaining due to failure rate, since it existed to compensate for high failure rate on spells, and FIQHack n olonger has a spell fail rate 16:01 :P 16:01 no I pushed afix 16:01 sorry 16:01 *a fix 16:01 for dynahack? 16:01 no, for fiqhack 16:02 whats fiqhack? 16:02 * FIQ zaps K2 with a wand of striking! 16:02 :P 16:02 HEH HEH 16:02 ok i'll patch soon 16:02 [hdf-us] [xnh] every1 (Ran Gno Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:13312 16:03 I have a general annoyance level depending on what wand I use when I do that 16:03 striking, "meh :P", fire, "K2 pls", death, "this is not funny and I'm legitimately angry or at least irritated" 16:04 hah 16:04 however in the latter 2 cases it's very unlikely that I'd actually use them since they can be misunderstood 16:04 so what is your mood when you zap a wand of wishing at me 16:05 those are nondirectional 16:05 its wishing. wish it to be directional 16:05 that doesn't work in my experience 16:05 <@riker> "what do you wish for? e - a directional wand of wishing" 16:06 "what do you wish for? e - for FIQ to un-fuck dynahack kthxbye" 16:06 you could always fix it yourself :) 16:06 actually no, i couldnt 16:06 <@riker> k2 doesn't actually know how to code 16:06 ahh 16:06 <@riker> mini-k2 does all the evilhack dev work 16:06 that 16:06 haha 16:06 <@riker> ice queen realm is a self-insert 16:06 ask mini-k2 to fix dyna hack 16:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:11487 16:06 *dynahack then 16:07 she says its beneath her status 16:07 ice queen dungeon is an ADOM... well, dungeon 16:07 actually it's called ice queen domain apparently 16:08 i know you have time to do it. you roll out fiqhack updates once every 3-4 months now 16:08 they tend to be 2min fixes 16:08 and its like 'clean up whitespace' 16:08 [hdf-us] [xnh] Bartlem (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2478 points, T:2944, killed by a rope golem 16:08 dynahack fixes would require a major investment 16:09 and I've already tried once 16:09 so you'll do it then? great 16:09 and only kind of succeeded 16:09 in nailing out like half of the probelms 16:09 *problems 16:09 so you only have half to go 16:09 excellent 16:09 next TPS report in 30 days 16:09 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Hea Hum Fem Neu) killed Yeenoghu, on T:62660 16:09 no because the latter part requires intimate knowledge of the NH4 save system 16:10 the 4.2 one 16:10 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 1397172 points, T:18787, killed by a deep one, while being tickled to death 16:10 how intimate? like dinner and movie intimate or night cap back at my place intimate? 16:10 the latter 16:10 ah 16:11 I already know roughly how it works 16:11 but not at the lowest level 16:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:3954 16:11 YOU CAN DOO EET 16:11 -!- moon-child has joined #hardfought 16:11 the ideal fix here, since dynahack is unmaintained, is rolling back to the 4.1 system 16:11 but NitroHack is somewhat infamous for eating saves 16:11 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2062 points, T:2218, killed by a gnome lord 16:12 you're already thinking of what to do... fantastic 16:12 go on... 16:12 no I figured this out like 2 years ago 16:12 I haven't touched it since 16:12 and how are you feeling now, FIQ ? 16:12 * amateurhour slides over 1 zorkmid 16:12 you could pull a VP Pence - put a big sign on it that says 'do not touch' and then touch it 16:12 I'm feeling well enough 16:13 actually doay I have already decided what to do nethack-wise 16:13 since ais523 helpfully pointed out an obvious fact that I had somehow overlooked for years 16:13 *today 16:13 -!- raisse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13 the fact that NH4 already has an insane configuration system for autopickup 16:14 there's no need to make another one 16:14 just use the same one 16:14 it can't get any *worse* 16:14 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 16:14 for adding menucolors 16:14 https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2017/07/07/10/pence-touches-critial-stuff.jpg?width=668 16:14 and letter fixing 16:16 -!- Alasnuyo has joined #hardfought 16:16 although I don't think NH4 actually has a regex engine 16:16 so it has to do with "normal" wildcards 16:16 but this is already the case with autopickup 16:16 so meh 16:17 FIQhack updated (all servers) 16:17 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Bin Orc Fem Non) killed the Platinum Dragon, on T:38735 16:18 aosdict: did you (or someone else) design a sensible spell success formula at some point? 16:18 -!- moon-child has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in] 16:19 -!- Menchers has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:19 -!- moon-child has joined #hardfought 16:19 brb 16:21 [hdf-us] [xnh] Bartlem (Sam Hum Mal Law) reached Minetown, on T:1648 16:23 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Inf Orc Fem Una), 3523 points, T:5596, killed by an invisible champion of Mog 16:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:55326 16:28 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2074 16:28 FIQ: I did redesign the spell formula, but 1) it's only a success rate formula under the hood, since failure rates just mean inflated Pw costs in xnh, 2) it's not perfect and some would say not even sensible 16:30 [hdf-us] [xnh] Bartlem (Sam Hum Mal Law) destroyed saxonysam's ghost, the former Trailblazer, on T:2036 16:30 1 is fine since fiqhack is the same-ish (fiqhack treats 100% fail as 99.5% fail) 16:30 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:30 so force bolt costs 1000pw to cast with 100% fail 16:30 1000*spell level 16:31 [hdf-us] [xnh] saxonysam (Ran Hum Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:10448 16:32 aosdict: what if metallic armor gave a flat multiplicative spellcast fail penalty and robes just halved that? that simplifies a lot of the formula 16:32 while still discouraging wearing metal for casters 16:33 leaving the main focus on roles, int and spell levels 16:34 and roles should probably be merged into "casters" and "non-casters" to make it easier to figure out as a player 16:34 I will think more on this 16:34 -!- moon-child has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34 no, I don't like how evilhack does that, separating roles into two groups 16:35 I didn't even know evilhack did that 16:35 honestly I don't know much about evilhack at all 16:35 besides "it has grunthack and sporkhack stuff and some of its own" 16:36 so for the purposes of the spellcasting formula, a caster/non-caster divide would effectively mean "caster" roles get a role-based bonus (like most roles do now), whereas "non-caster" roles get zero 16:36 aosdict: another alternative is to remove the role distinction alltogether and rely strictly on the spell school skills 16:37 -!- moon-child has joined #hardfought 16:37 (plus int, and probably XL) 16:38 monks have a giant boost from robes in vanilla, I wonder if they do in evilhack still if it distinguishes casters like that 16:38 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Mother Hydra, on T:32915 16:38 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed the invisible Father Dagon, on T:32918 16:39 the problem with spell system changes is that it's easy to talk about potential changes, and very hard to fully consider the balance of those changes across all possible casters 16:39 I mean 16:40 my eregen change was basically just "ok the vanilla eregen system sucks, let's come up with a new one for like 30min" 16:40 :P 16:40 it's simple and was come up with as a result of some quick brainstorming 16:40 spell success ought to be equally simple 16:41 in theory at least 16:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:16014 16:41 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) destroyed etai's ghost, the former Fighter, on T:6296 16:41 -!- moon-child has quit [Client Quit] 16:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:56712 16:46 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:3430 16:47 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Bin Orc Fem Non) killed Medusa, on T:40964 16:48 -!- eady has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:3944 16:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 750 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:57371 16:59 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Bin Orc Fem Non) wished for "blessed fixed +2 helping hand", on T:42065 17:01 -!- Alasnuyo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed fireproof +2 robe", on T:18121 17:03 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law) had Fire Brand bestowed upon him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:4872 17:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] lacca (Hea Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:66119 17:06 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Bin Orc Fem Non) became the Emissary of Elements, on T:42820 17:06 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vis (Arc Hum Mal Law), 6008 points, T:5288, killed by a wolf 17:06 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) killed Juiblex, on T:60005 17:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) attained the rank of Archer, on T:58245 17:12 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 17:13 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 17:16 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Cookiedough (Bin Orc Fem Non) was given Hellrider's Saddle, on T:43692 17:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:58616 17:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:58621 17:17 <@bubbles> !who 17:17 @bubbles: [hdf-us] rebatela [evil] Bliss56 [nh370] oh6 [nh370] dgoddard [nh370] ichbinmiah [nh370] davez [nh370] Disruptor [dnh] Heliokopis [dnh] every1 [xnh] saxonysam [xnh] | [hdf-eu] HarmathZsolt [slshm] mobileuser [evil] doomcircle [evil] Cookiedough [dnh] microlance [dnh] | [hdf-au] No current players 17:17 <@bubbles> 4 dnh good good 17:18 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:20 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +3 dragonhide t-shirt of drain resistance", on T:30644 17:21 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed spellbook of polymorph", on T:30649 17:23 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:31193 17:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:49737 17:24 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29 -!- Disruptor has joined #hardfought 17:29 hey - anyone know how to bind spirits if you're not a binder but have the Necronomicon? 17:31 <@bubbles> Disruptor you have to read the book 17:31 <@bubbles> until you learn the first or second batch of spirits 17:31 I've read the book and learned the spirits 17:31 <@bubbles> but you aren't 100% to get them 17:31 <@bubbles> Ah 17:31 but how do I actually bind? 17:31 <@bubbles> So I think you bind as normal 17:31 <@riker> necronomicon binds as normal 17:31 <@bubbles> book of lost names is more maigc with no ritual 17:31 <@bubbles> necro needs ritual 17:31 <@riker> BOLN binds by choosing to contact a spirit 17:32 right, I've used that one 17:32 <@riker> if you're read the testament of whispers from the necro once it'll teach you the seals 17:32 what's the command to engrave the seals? 17:32 <@bubbles> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Spirits_(dNetHack) check out this for what you need to do to bind a given spirit 17:32 <@bubbles> Ctrl-E 17:32 <@riker> and they're now usable with #seal or ctrl-e 17:32 aah that's what I needed 17:32 thanks 17:32 <@bubbles> good luck enjoyu! 17:32 #seal would be good too., thanks 17:32 <@bubbles> AND THEN PLAY A BINDER! 17:33 <@bubbles> it is the best role 17:33 it does look fun 17:33 <@bubbles> riker I can smell this one ascending 17:33 <@bubbles> I can literally smell it 17:33 <@riker> binders suck 17:33 <@riker> 0/10 17:33 but I've had bad luck on pirates for three games now 17:33 <@bubbles> level 30 not done chaos or neutral yet 17:33 <@bubbles> 100 sanity 2 insight no madnesses 17:33 one I died on the astral trying to swim while burdened 17:33 one I woke lasamastu 17:33 well maybe this is number 3 17:33 <{Demo}1> how do u swim on the astral? 17:34 <@bubbles> Disruptor I have two games parked oen above lamashtu ๐Ÿ˜ฆ 17:34 so going to beat pirate first, then binder 17:34 <@bubbles> arrrr 17:34 you walk into the water as a pirate, who has swimming, and then drown because you're burdened 17:34 <@bubbles> there's water on astral? ๐Ÿค” 17:34 yeah, I couldn't beat the teleport attack 17:34 well 17:34 elemental plane 17:34 w/e 17:34 <@bubbles> ahhhh gotcha 17:34 "Plane of Water" 17:35 <@bubbles> My favourite splat was on water 100% guaranteed ascension and I THOUGHT I had magical breathing 17:35 <@bubbles> so just yolod out into the water 17:35 <@bubbles> and drowned 17:35 <@bubbles> ... 17:35 <@riker> demo idk in dnd you swim on astral 17:35 that was it 17:35 <@bubbles> I had amulet of lifesaving 17:35 <@bubbles> so I was like 17:35 <@bubbles> wot u mean my breath is running low? 17:35 <@bubbles> Oh I am dead 17:35 <@bubbles> Oh I am dead for real 17:35 <@bubbles> muchos sadnesso 17:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) attained the rank of Magician, on T:10554 17:38 [hdf-us] [nh370] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 128156 points, T:23061, killed by a troll 17:39 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) destroyed nabru's ghost, the former Fighter, on T:10578 17:39 -!- moon-child has joined #hardfought 17:39 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 17:39 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 17:41 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:50125 17:42 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:44 [hdf-eu] [slshm] HarmathZsolt (Nec Dop Fem Cha), 6073 points, T:5426, killed by a snake 17:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Father Dagon, on T:59368 17:47 <@riker> helio! 17:47 <@riker> back at it with the inc grind! 17:48 <@bubbles> go go helio! 17:48 <@bubbles> !who 17:48 @bubbles: [hdf-us] rebatela [evil] ichbinmiah [nh370] davez [nh370] Disruptor [dnh] Heliokopis [dnh] every1 [xnh] | [hdf-eu] HarmathZsolt [slshm] doomcircle [evil] microlance [dnh] | [hdf-au] No current players 17:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Mother Hydra, on T:59500 17:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] Talentless (Cav Gno Mal Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:34180 17:51 <@bubbles> what's your sanity/insight disruptor? 17:51 <@bubbles> Also pirates should get some boon for killing deep ones 17:51 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:51 <@bubbles> (and any other swimmy/sea monster) 17:51 97 and 65 17:51 actually, i'll drink a sleeping pot and make it 100 17:52 I did a bunch of sacrificing/demon summoning early so sanity is best kept high for this character 17:52 <@bubbles> eep that insight is mad 17:52 <@bubbles> If you let great cthulu amnesia you from > 1 square 17:52 <@bubbles> it should cut your insight down massively for some reason 17:53 [hdf-eu] [evil] doomcircle (Inf Ith Mal Una), 5427 points, T:3938, killed by a little dog, while frozen by a trap 17:54 no point to that 17:54 [hdf-eu] [slshm] HarmathZsolt (Nec Dop Fem Cha), 285 points, T:725, killed by a jackal 17:55 soon as I get the silver key, I'm branching porting out of this joint 17:55 I was tempted to go after one of the incarnations of nyarlathotep, but the Good Neighbor is in the way of the Hwnym Pharoah, and I don't want any piece of that 17:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) averted death, on T:50458 18:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] Talentless (Cav Gno Mal Neu) attained the rank of Wayfarer, on T:34650 18:02 once I get a zero percent cast fail rate, is there any magic skill worth pushing beyond skilled? 18:02 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 18:03 I think basically no, but check the wiki 18:03 <@riker> divination 18:03 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "blessed eye of the aethiopica", on T:33629 18:03 riker: what does Expert divination get you? 18:03 <@riker> believe it does blessed ID past skilled 18:03 <@riker> clairvoyance lets you target it 18:03 <@riker> det monsters lasts for longer iirc 18:04 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Neferet the Green, on T:33673 18:04 Detect monsters, detect treasure, identify, and to a lesser degree detect food, become much more useful at skilled level. Good spellcasting classes will want to advance to skilled unless skill slots are at a premium. Expert and skilled levels have the same effects for all spells in this school, so there is usually no benefit to becoming expert. 18:04 from wiki 18:04 don't waste your skill points 18:04 <@riker> in dnh, attack buffs dmg of force bolt, and lets you learn fire storm / blizzard 18:04 already got expert in attack for that reason 18:04 <@riker> skilled for that 18:04 just don't know what I get for the others 18:04 oh wait are we talking dnh 18:04 <@riker> also works for drain life and finger of death 18:04 if so i have literally no idea 18:05 <@riker> it's mostly just 3.4.3 18:05 <@bubbles> yeah expert attack skilled anything else 18:05 but no don't do divination 18:05 <@bubbles> (is my personal rule) 18:05 it's the same 18:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] ichbinmiah (Pri Hum Mal Neu) genocided class L, on T:33100 18:05 <@riker> div is worth skilled 18:05 yeah skilled good 18:05 expert no 18:05 <@bubbles> yeah usually div skilled, if you hve slots to get other spells to skilled then go for it I guess? 18:05 <@bubbles> What else you gonna use them on 18:05 <@bubbles> TRIDENTS? 18:05 <@bubbles> ๐Ÿคฃ 18:05 <@riker> only healing maybe if you want to learn extra healing 18:06 haha 18:06 already got that too 18:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:50554 18:06 <@bubbles> goo goooo gooooooooo helo 18:06 <@riker> then nah you're probably fine 18:06 sounds like you just have an excess of skill points lol 18:06 <@riker> I'll check the list of related spells you can learn like that later maybe 18:06 <@bubbles> I guess as pirate what do you really care about? 18:07 <@bubbles> scimitar, twoweap? 18:07 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 18:07 <@riker> whatever wep you grabbed really 18:07 <@bubbles> yeah the offhand weap 18:08 <@bubbles> disruptor did you get nodens? 18:08 what, nodensfork 18:08 ? 18:08 I've got Aegis as a shield 18:09 <@bubbles> meh, aegis is only good for the invoke for gorgeon 18:09 i still have a dnh android I started back in June 18:09 <@bubbles> don't need to wield it for that 18:09 <@bubbles> (unless it changed) 18:09 somewhere near the quest entry I think 18:09 <@bubbles> aoei MORE DNH NOW 18:09 <@bubbles> also don't go to the quest 18:09 <@bubbles> it's quite literally a trap 18:09 not the regular quest 18:09 one of the fancy ones 18:09 i think 18:09 im not sure 18:09 some big fortress in main dungeon hellwards of soko etc 18:10 <@bubbles> ahh 18:10 <@bubbles> neutral quest 18:10 yup i think it's that 18:10 <@bubbles> I usually scout around first, the main dungeon is relativelty tame 18:10 <@bubbles> but you can find VAULTs 18:10 mkay 18:10 <@bubbles> which are very very tastty 18:10 <@bubbles> the castle is really not very hard 18:10 is there a portal somewhere 18:10 <@bubbles> so you can get your second artiwish enabled 18:10 how do you get in 18:10 <@bubbles> and good loot 18:10 <@bubbles> portal to the neutral quest? 18:10 yah 18:10 you don't like aegis? half damage plus reflection is pretty nice 18:11 <@bubbles> the vaults you just dig in 18:11 so I just go in the castle and dig these vaults 18:11 <@bubbles> disruptor true, but you take less damage if you kill stuff faster with twoweap 18:11 <@bubbles> aoei, check the chaos quest variant you get too 18:11 <@riker> aegis is great 18:11 <@riker> (not biased) 18:11 <@bubbles> mithandir is pretty amazing to do 18:11 bubbles: I might have gone past that one, not sure 18:11 <@bubbles> riker self coding shill 18:11 <@riker> chris nerfed invoke on the lords of the nine (stoning res) but it's still good too 18:12 to kill stuff, a wish for Grayswandir works just fine 18:12 I could go back and check 18:12 <@riker> shut up bubble 18:12 or check wiki etc 18:12 plus, i'm playing incantifier 18:12 <@bubbles> aoei I think that is dnh mega storng point, midgame there is SO much to do 18:12 I just zap the hell out of everything anyway 18:12 riker don't listen to them 18:12 <@bubbles> dis true 18:12 <@bubbles> how's your casting with a shield? 18:12 it doesn't count as shilling when it's your own stuff 18:12 zero percent fail 18:12 its just a regular old shameless plug 18:12 <@bubbles> bon anniversaire 18:12 <@riker> it's an inc 18:12 <@riker> what do you expect bubbles 18:13 riker, tell chris to make sum of all spawn like a normal monster 18:13 hate having to wait around for it 18:13 <@bubbles> riker, yes, ell chris to make sum spawn properly 18:13 <@bubbles> I remember quite vividly falling off my chair 18:13 <@bubbles> literally 18:13 <@bubbles> ^ 18:13 <@bubbles> when it appeared ON THE ASTRAL 18:13 riker, tell Chris I want a selection of different colours for my android dress :V 18:13 yeah, likewise, though not literally 18:13 altho the black one is nice 18:13 also, can we PLEASE not have garos and ghosts as periods? 18:13 <@riker> ping him urself yall 18:14 IMPOSSIBLE to find the little fuckers 18:14 <@bubbles> YES DISRUPTOR 18:14 <@bubbles> YES 18:14 riker, where he hang out 18:14 <@riker> hes a mere mortal 18:14 but you're here :-) 18:14 <@bubbles> "OH BUT FARLOOK" quoth riker 18:14 <@riker> and use farlook 18:14 <@riker> yeah yeah shut up 18:14 <@bubbles> SEE I TOLD YOU!!!!! 18:14 <@riker> its not hard 18:14 hahahaha 18:14 <@riker> besides ghost are not VOTD tile color 18:14 I'm not farlooking 8 different squares for each fucking ghost 18:14 <@riker> and everywhere else they're rare enough 18:14 <@bubbles> Disruptor Chris hangs out in the nethack-variants channel 18:14 <@bubbles> I am not sure if you can get to that on irc? 18:14 dunno 18:14 <@bubbles> AMEN 18:14 <@bubbles> ghosts 18:14 <@riker> ##nethack-variants on freenode 18:15 I'm only ever on when I want advise on some dnethack minuaete 18:15 Freenode's where it's at bb 18:15 <@riker> lmao 18:15 <@bubbles> discord ๐Ÿ˜Ž 18:15 <@bubbles> it's where the cool kids hang out with their emojis 18:15 -!- Bliss56 has joined #hardfought 18:15 discord has all your nudes don't trust them 18:15 <@riker> fuck emoji 18:15 <@riker> jokes on them I dont have any nudes 18:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] ichbinmiah (Pri Hum Mal Neu) destroyed dgoddard's ghost, the former Student of Stones, on T:33665 18:15 or like don't post nudes on discord 18:15 i gues 18:15 <@riker> dont have a corporeal body to take photos of 18:16 <@riker> anyway re CoA plan is to have a ritual to summon the dude 18:16 <@riker> that being said theres no good ideas for rituals apparently 18:16 <@bubbles> SEAL 18:16 <@bubbles> seal him 18:16 <@riker> and planeswalker died and idk any other sources 18:16 <@riker> no 18:16 <@bubbles> learn it from the > on sum of all? 18:16 <@riker> hes not a spirit 18:16 <@riker> that makes no sense 18:16 <@bubbles> Does any of the neutral quest? 18:16 <@riker> coa is a living dude hes a rilmani 18:16 -!- stenno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:16 <@riker> yeah what's confusing about it 18:17 <@riker> other than the portals 18:17 <@bubbles> tbh outlands should be a separate branch 18:17 <@riker> that's weird 18:17 <@riker> but the content is fine 18:17 -!- Disruptor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17 <@bubbles> but I guess you need something to buffer the horrors of the rift 18:17 <@riker> if you have a good idea for what would upset the balance vs law and cha and summon CoA lmk 18:17 <@bubbles> riker kill chaos boss + oona = summpon coa 18:18 <@riker> that feels too wack but maybe 18:18 <@riker> convert a neutral altar on sum of all while bearing both chaos and law completion artis? 18:18 <@riker> hm rod is intelligent tho so nah 18:19 <@bubbles> can do it after completing them 18:19 <@bubbles> same as binder 18:20 <@riker> do what? 18:20 <@bubbles> As in even if you can't grasp the rod (kek) 18:20 <@bubbles> you can still "get the completion" event 18:20 <@bubbles> like a binder does for the seal 18:21 <@bubbles> so consider an attempted pickup of the rod/final-chaos to be "completion" 18:21 <@bubbles> then convert the neutral altar in the outlands town 18:21 <@bubbles> (or add a specific altar in sum of all) 18:21 <@riker> there's already a couple completion rules 18:22 <@riker> iirc pick up rod of 7, kill oona, kill arsenal 18:22 <@riker> maybe the altar in neu branch after visiting sum of all, dunno 18:23 <@bubbles> I would prefer another altar in sumofall tbh 18:23 <@bubbles> maybe even lock out n'kai until that is converted? 18:23 <@bubbles> So conversion -> downstairs 18:23 <@FIQ> is rod of 7 parts the one with latin commands 18:23 <@riker> yes 18:23 <@bubbles> fiq yeah 18:23 <@riker> no screw that I don't want to forced fight coa 18:23 <@riker> that's stupid 18:23 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 18:23 <@FIQ> iirc they don't really correspond to what the actions are 18:23 <@FIQ> so I'd rather not have to deal with that lol 18:25 <@bubbles> fiq this would just be as soon as you touch the rod you have "completed" the quest 18:25 <@bubbles> you don't even need to actually pick it up 18:25 <@bubbles> riker true 18:25 <@bubbles> though coa is pretty laughable compared to the other dudes 18:26 <@bubbles> add an altar on sum but don't make the > depend on it then 18:26 <@bubbles> seems pretty reasonable 18:26 <@FIQ> Oh he isn't actually using the arti 18:26 <@FIQ> Nvm then 18:26 <@riker> I'm ok with that but idk about flavor 18:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Sam Hum Fem Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon her by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:21734 18:26 <@bubbles> Killing oona is bringin a lot of imbalance 18:26 <@bubbles> since she is overseeing jailing the naughty bois 18:26 <@bubbles> and killing chaos/aspect/mordor-demon is bad 18:27 <@bubbles> because you are tilting the other way 18:27 <@bubbles> so CoA comes to PUNISH THE IMBALANCER 18:27 <@FIQ> I don't really know latin but usually the words are recognizeable and easy to remember, but for the arti, the latin commands has nothing to do whatsoever with their effect and are just generic sayings 18:28 <@bubbles> I think it just looks/sounds cool ? 18:28 <@bubbles> I dunno latin 18:28 <@riker> some are related 18:28 <@riker> not all tho 18:29 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Master Kaen, on T:35039 18:29 <@FIQ> my closest contact with latin is random harry potter shit 18:29 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:35041 18:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] davez (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:14853 18:29 <@FIQ> but at least they have the courtesy of actually meaning what they do 18:29 <@FIQ> rather than something generic 18:31 <@FIQ> for example, when you want to make light with rod of 7 parts, do you use lux, or maybe fiat lux? Nope, you use Justitia 18:31 <@FIQ> Which has nothing to do with light 18:33 <@FIQ> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Chris/dNetHack/Artifacts/Rod_of_Seven_Parts 18:33 <@bubbles> There is no lux! 18:33 <@bubbles> only lex 18:34 <@bubbles> I once tried to use the rod against lamashtu 18:34 <@bubbles> BUT FILTH 18:34 <@bubbles> so overpowered 18:34 <@bubbles> meant I could not grasp my own rod (again, with the imagery) 18:34 <@FIQ> filth is disarm, right 18:34 <@bubbles> yeah so no invoke 18:37 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) had Imhullu bestowed upon him by The Lady, on T:11334 18:38 <@bubbles> what is an imhullui> 18:42 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 18:47 [hdf-eu] [evil] doomcircle (Val Cen Fem Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a bone orcish dagger on an altar, on T:3270 18:49 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu) had a leather tattered cape entrusted to her by Mog, on T:38995 18:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] ichbinmiah (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:36046 18:58 [hdf-us] [xnh] saxonysam (Ran Hum Fem Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon her by Mars, on T:11240 18:59 [hdf-us] [nh343] KaiHerd (Bar Hum Fem Neu), 9625 points, T:2882, killed by a giant ant 19:04 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 19:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 19:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined #hardfought 19:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v callforjudgement] by ChanServ 19:11 -!- ais523 has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:11 -!- callforjudgement is now known as ais523 19:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:52507 19:16 <@riker> !lastasc heliokopis 19:16 @riker: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/H/Heliokopis/nh343/dumplog/1568914968.nh343.txt 19:16 <@riker> hey he might do it 19:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Sam Hum Fem Law) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon her by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:24730 19:19 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) destroyed qt's ghost, the former Excursionist, on T:13488 19:22 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) attained the rank of Peregrinator, on T:13785 19:36 !tell Alasnuyo dnethack game is recovered 19:36 Alasnuyo shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, K2. 19:36 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:14861 19:37 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Croesus, on T:61250 19:39 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 12 points, T:1308, killed by a grid bug, while fainted from lack of food 19:40 <@bubbles> Go go helio 19:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:61816 19:45 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Sir Garland, on T:35801 19:49 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) destroyed Lich, the Fiend of Earth, on T:35940 19:50 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Kary, the Fiend of Fire, on T:35942 19:51 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Kraken, the Fiend of Water, on T:35982 19:52 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Tiamat, the Fiend of Wind, on T:36020 19:54 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Garland, on T:36105 19:54 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) destroyed Chaos, on T:36108 19:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed holy +2 Grayswandir", on T:62464 19:55 <@ichbinmiah> so far so good for helio ๐Ÿ™ 19:56 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:17779 19:57 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed the Nightmare, on T:36216 19:58 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59 -!- stenno1 has joined #hardfought 20:00 do the planes go in order in dnh or is it random? 20:01 <@riker> order 20:02 cool 20:02 [hdf-us] [4k] charlotte (charles) (Val Hum Fem Neu) reached the bottom of the Mines, on T:9360 20:02 interesting question: if the planes could be in an arbitrary order but fixed for every game, which order would be best? 20:03 <@riker> earth first, most reasonable place for wiz fighting 20:03 <@riker> assuming that's kept 20:03 as someone who's been watching avatar the last airbender I have to go water, earth, fire, air 20:03 -!- stenno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03 <@riker> either that or earth last (for a wiz fight then) 20:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) destroyed Famine, on T:53184 20:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) killed the invisible Center of All, on T:53235 20:08 [hdf-us] [spl] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 43335 points, T:19484, killed by an ogre king 20:08 <@ichbinmiah> something has vorpal ๐Ÿ˜ฎ 20:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) destroyed Pestilence, on T:53296 20:12 Water is by far the easiest plane, I'm not sure if that makes you want to put it first or last 20:12 and Earth is much easier than Fire or Air 20:19 -!- Menchers has joined #hardfought 20:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) averted death, on T:53506 20:24 [hdf-us] [xnh] every1 (Ran Gno Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a nalfeshnee, on T:20077 20:24 <@princessSpicycat> why does the wiz fight have to be on Earth 20:24 <@riker> rip, helio is dead 20:24 <@riker> or soon to be 20:25 <@princessSpicycat> goddamnit 20:25 <@riker> another casualty by team uvuudaum 20:25 <@princessSpicycat> does helio get mail? do they respond? 20:25 <@riker> cant cast if you're confused 20:25 <@riker> no they're 100% screwed, it wouldnt help 20:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) destroyed Death, on T:53528 20:26 <@riker> if they have enough tele charges then they may survive 20:26 <@princessSpicycat> i'm always fascinated by people who chug away at things without ever asking chat for advice 20:26 <@riker> but nothing that mail can do 20:26 <@riker> conflict may keep the U away for long enough? saw at least 1 time clone tho 20:26 got the grand tour 20:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Sam Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:28058 20:27 <@princessSpicycat> there's this one fiqhack player who breaks my heart, because they'll get a pretty good assortment of gear, and then just like, stand there chucking +2 darts at a leocrotta or bunch of ants or whatever 20:28 <@ichbinmiah> altar in sight, but so many enemies between here and there 20:28 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed +2 trollsbane", on T:36663 20:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Hmnyw-Pharaoh, on T:63123 20:30 <@ichbinmiah> gg! 20:30 <@riker> neato, made it 20:30 hell ya 20:30 watched that whole thing lol 20:30 <@riker> with all 3 riders and at least two uvuudaums chasing 20:30 <@ichbinmiah> fought for every inch of it 20:31 <@riker> was surprised he didnt die immediately with the uvuudaums 20:31 <@riker> passive confusion gaze on a caster? 20:31 <@riker> and magicbane cant outdamage their regen 20:31 <@Sig> Wow, nice 20:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu), 10350077 points, T:53567, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/H/Heliokopis/dnethack/dumplog/1596066622.dnh.txt 20:39 -!- sebastia1toby has joined #hardfought 20:40 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:42 -!- sebastiantoby has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:54 -!- j6p has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02 -!- Bliss56 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:37839 21:06 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) wished for "fixed magic marker", on T:37849 21:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:63878 21:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Kostchtchie, on T:63909 21:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Zuggtmoy, on T:63954 21:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] Disruptor (Pir Inc Mal Cha) killed Alrunes, on T:63985 21:16 [hdf-us] [xnh] saxonysam (Ran Hum Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a quantum mechanic, on T:12274 21:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2247 21:23 <@ShivanHunter> in Evilhack, is your first artifact wish guaranteed, or can the game ruin it for you by creating too many artifacts (as in vanilla)? 21:23 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed the invisible Cerberus, on T:38505 21:27 <@riker> @ShivanHunter rolls rn2(nartifact_exist) > 1 to determine if it should give you the arti 21:27 <@riker> so it can still mess you up, sadly 21:27 <@ShivanHunter> blargh 21:28 <@ShivanHunter> ok. Do scrolls of scare monster work on @ (player monsters)? I know 3.7.0 changes it but idk if that's been marged yet or if Evilhack has changed that on its own 21:28 <@riker> evilhack is up to date with 3.7 i believe 21:29 <@riker> yea just checked - scare monster doesn't work on any @ 21:29 <@ShivanHunter> damn 21:29 <@ShivanHunter> ok I might just give up on artiwishing 21:29 <@ShivanHunter> hmm 21:29 [hdf-us] [xnh] saxonysam (Ran Hum Fem Cha) attained the rank of Reconnoiteress, on T:12838 21:29 <@riker> which are you trying to get? 21:29 <@riker> you could try for one of the ones that don't have a nemesis? 21:29 <@riker> and just a player monster 21:29 <@ShivanHunter> Dragonbane 21:29 <@ShivanHunter> I'm on turn 3581, a player monster would eat me alive atm 21:30 <@riker> lol 21:30 <@riker> no lava or zombies around or anything fun? 21:30 <@ShivanHunter> hmmm... set the @ up against a giant zombie, you mean? 21:30 <@ShivanHunter> it still might finish me off before I could get away 21:31 <@riker> i believe evilhack has grudges? 21:31 <@riker> if you can get the giant zombie adjacent or something like that, and then wish, you may only need 1 turn to escape 21:31 <@riker> but yeah might be a good idea to prep a bit first 21:31 <@ShivanHunter> monsters and zombies will attack each other if they're adjacent but it'll still be chasing after me I think 21:31 <@riker> maybe do this in like, the corner of a mine's level or something... 21:32 -!- covi has joined #hardfought 21:36 <@ShivanHunter> I'm thinking I'll just get SDSM for now and maybe try for Dragonbane if I get a chance later. It's better AC anyway 21:37 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:3581 21:37 <@ShivanHunter> ooh nice it kept the +3 21:37 <@riker> should've gone for +5 :) 21:37 <@ShivanHunter> hmm :P 21:38 <@riker> hey, statistically speaking you'd have had a better chance to get the +5 than normal :p 21:39 <@riker> (assuming that changing the wish wouldn't affect the rng) 21:39 <@ShivanHunter> heh 21:39 it wouldn't 21:39 <@riker> neato, didn't think so 21:41 <@ShivanHunter> aaaand my goddamn pseudodragon turned into a hobbit mummy from a polytrap 21:41 <@ShivanHunter> welp 21:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] sohlman (Ran Hlf Fem Cha), 5607 points, T:2539, killed by a gnome 21:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:41015 21:48 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 21:53 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had a magical ironshod staff entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:4705 21:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Ran Orc Mal Cha) murdered Snore, his faithful little dog, on T:1449 21:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:41642 21:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Mon Hum Mal Neu) entered the Astral Plane, on T:70286 21:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Mon Hum Mal Neu) put Death down for a little nap, on T:70296 21:59 [hdf-us] [4k] charlotte (charles) (Val Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:14480 21:59 K2: I just opened an evilhack PR, hope you love it 22:00 ok i'll check it out 22:00 basically 1 line changed lol 22:00 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 22:00 <@riker> ^ half the PRs i submit 22:01 oh cool, good catch 22:02 [hdf-us] [4k] charlotte (charles) (Val Hum Fem Neu) entered the Rogue tribute level, on T:14779 22:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Ran Orc Mal Cha), 752 points, T:2271, killed by a paper golem 22:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 441 points, T:1367, killed by a newt, while frozen by a monster's gaze 22:10 qt_, merged 22:11 ๐ŸŽ‰ 22:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] qt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 10594 points, T:3035, killed by a gnome lord 22:14 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:7122 22:14 <@ShivanHunter> wait it's a quarterstaff now? 22:14 <@ShivanHunter> kek 22:14 si 22:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 728 points, T:1277, killed by a rothe, while fainted from lack of food 22:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 grey dragon scale mail", on T:42462 22:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed bag of holding", on T:42463 22:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:42469 22:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:42474 22:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:42478 22:20 -!- Heliokopis has joined #hardfought 22:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:59992 22:39 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 22:42 [hdf-us] [slex] sohlman (Car Ill Mal Cha), 1864 points, T:1090, killed by a monster (monk called amateurhour) 23:03 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:10472 23:06 nice to see you playing evil again , ShivanHunter :) 23:10 k2: i was reading backscroll... sorry for filling your hard drive with my start scum ttyrecs? ;) 23:12 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Belial, on T:43915 23:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] dvorkian (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:5093 23:14 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed the invisible Fierna, on T:43935 23:20 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 21074 points, T:11238, killed by an air elemental 23:22 <@ShivanHunter> how exactly have tooled horns/scare tools changed in Evilhack? 23:22 <@ShivanHunter> specifically, which monsters are immune/resistant to them now 23:23 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 23:23 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 23:27 <@riker> shivan: anything scared by scare monster will be scared by a tooled horn 23:28 <{Demo}1> what if it doesn't have ears? 23:28 <@riker> the list of things that WON"T be scared is: wizard, lawful minions, angels/archangels, honey badgers, mindless monsters, riders, player monsters, any @, uniques, shks/priests in their temples 23:28 <@ShivanHunter> ok, mindless explains the zombies and (I think) the elementals 23:28 <@riker> tooled horns specifically have a distance check, along with a tool-class MR resist check 23:30 <@riker> distance to be scared is lvl * 10, distance to be awoken/unfrozen is lvl * 30 23:32 <@ShivanHunter> from looking at the source the only big difference is that mindless monsters can't be scared by anything 23:32 <@ShivanHunter> hmm, that means I'll need some different Planes strategies too since I've grown used to using a tooled horn there 23:33 <@riker> mindless is like, M, Z, ', F, j, elementals? 23:33 <@riker> b, e 23:33 <@riker> though should beholders really be midnless k2? 23:33 <@ShivanHunter> floating eyes have minds 23:33 there's that new artifact tooled horn, that I think has a bigger radius 23:33 <@ShivanHunter> at least, the illithid mind blast thing works on them 23:33 <@riker> yeah, floating eyes & magical eyes do 23:33 replaces orb of fate 23:33 i wished for it once 23:33 <@riker> spheres & gas spores don't, and for some reason beholders don't either 23:33 <@riker> gjallar 23:33 yes 23:34 <@riker> doesn't have a bigger radius it seems, but it stuns nearby monsters 23:35 -!- bugsniper_ has joined #hardfought 23:36 ahh ok... also half physical damage and levelport... 23:37 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 776 points, T:720, killed by a dwarf 23:37 <@riker> well yeah, it does do the rest of the valk things :P 23:37 <@riker> but that doesn't matter as much for scaring purposes 23:37 true 23:37 just saying it's a pretty badass item 23:37 <@riker> yeah it s pretty cool 23:38 especially if you need a tooled horn. Sometimes I can't find one and have to polypile 23:41 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed the creature in the ice, on T:44878 23:41 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed the invisible Levistus, on T:44881 23:44 can i eat a wooden ring as a gelatinous cube? For some reason I'm afraid to turn into one 23:46 yes you can eat it 23:48 ty 23:50 [hdf-eu] [dnh] microlance (Bin Orc Mal Non) killed Malcanthet, on T:44947 23:51 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:39431 23:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:70526 23:54 -!- bugsniper_ is now known as bug_sniper 23:54 I think "you are what you eat" belongs in rumor.fal 23:55 <@riker> i ate a fire giant and got more buff and a mild resistance to fire, not sure if that's incorrect 23:55 [hdf-us] [evil] ShivanHunter (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a wererat, on T:3674 23:57 * Andrio offers bug_sniper a small glob of green slime and a tin of wererat meat. 23:58 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided master mind flayers, on T:39762