00:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] jonathanhanes (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:1150 00:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] jonathanhanes (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:1166 00:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] jonathanhanes (Sam Hum Fem Law), 1522 points, T:1294, killed by a ghoul, while frozen by a monster's gaze 00:05 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 00:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law), 18047 points, T:21444, killed by a chameleon imitating a mastodon 00:08 yikes, mastodon 00:08 also seems Asmodeus's domain may or may not have been bones 00:08 lot of dead folks drops what I didn't even make 00:19 aw, the poor fool got rock troll'd, prayed out of habit 00:19 they had the amulet! 00:20 emphasis on had 00:20 wait, no, was an obvious fake, would've seen it on the ground 00:20 and not in that sack 00:26 still hate seeing people potentially dying with the amulet 00:26 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 00:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] jonathanhanes (Tou Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed fixed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:1162 00:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] jonathanhanes (Tou Hum Mal Neu) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by The Lady, on T:3280 00:54 ok 00:54 Neat 00:55 See if you can get MBane 00:55 I found one in this bones on Asmo 00:55 Along with a 0:0 wand of wishing 00:56 Have to uncurse it first 00:58 I can't remember the last time I got MBane as a tourist 00:58 !ping 00:58 JonathanHanes: Pong! 01:00 [hdf-us] [xnh] Welderius (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1111 points, T:1830, killed by an orc-captain 01:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] jonathanhanes (Tou Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:4627 01:24 [hdf-us] [evil] dingotron (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7616 01:44 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 01:57 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:14 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:30653 02:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) genocided class R, on T:30714 02:33 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:36, on T:31157 02:34 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:31176 02:36 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:31234 02:37 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:39 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Hea Elf Mal Neu), 876869 points, T:80365, killed by a woolly mammoth called Peter 02:46 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:31381 02:46 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:31384 02:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) bribed Asmodeus with 165 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:50010 02:49 -!- truculent has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:52 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:34, on T:31714 03:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 24 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:51128 03:05 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:16, on T:32558 03:09 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed magic marker", on T:32974 03:12 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:32986 03:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on the Plane of Earth, on T:32988 03:16 so, apparently some changes made for baalzebub's level have led to a situation where a lich is embedded in a wall 03:26 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) genocided class z, on T:33223 03:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:52097 03:29 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:52102 03:37 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:33380 03:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:33418 03:49 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:33432 03:53 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:33454 03:57 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed Death, on T:33477 03:58 -!- PavelB has joined #hardfought 03:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a xorn, on T:53439 04:06 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 2565760 points, T:33495, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Ardub/xnethack/dumplog/1583131508.xnh.html 04:08 <@ScienceBall> Congrats Ardub! 04:16 grats Ardub! 04:17 go go oh6! 04:20 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:54077 04:21 You are now most skilled in broadsword. 04:21 Stormy weather! 04:34 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:38 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 04:55 -!- Tommi has joined #hardfought 04:57 Hi! What is the best way to setup a debugging environment for dgamelaunch? I'd like to debug it by setting breakpoints etc. but I have only experience how to do it in Visual Studio for windows projects. 05:02 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 05:02 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 05:02 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 05:05 presumably you'd set up your IDE of choice to use your debugger of choice 05:06 it wouldn't surprise me if there was a vscode extension that just did it for you 05:07 with like gdb or something 05:13 Ok. Let me check. 05:26 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 05:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 05:34 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 06:00 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 06:08 -!- PavelB has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:11 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:23 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 06:26 I saw in the irclog that more players have encountered the flipped castle level bug (u_on_newpos: trying to place hero off map <80,0>) 06:27 It sounds like it would be better to put my current game on ice until there is a fix 06:28 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:29 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:33 heh, that inane level flipping adds nothing to the game at best, and a bunch of new bugs at worst :P 06:35 It certainly added to my confusion when I first saw it ;-) 06:37 flipped sokoban is great 06:39 Hah! I only had Medusa, Castle and Valley flip. Sokoban flip would have been more "interesting" 06:39 Challenge to old habits 06:39 bhaak: renaming of vanilla to "unnethack 2.0" when :P 06:56 I didn't think that you thought that Vanilla is so much behind UnNetHack which is already at the major version 5 07:03 <@Suzune Takada> is filpped sokoban new feature of 3.7? 07:03 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:04 yes 07:04 rather fresh 07:05 unnethack is just sporkhack 2.0 07:06 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06 pfff, "just" 07:14 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 07:14 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 227 points, T:1357, killed by a fox 07:15 !lastgame dbanethacker 07:15 VaderFLAG: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dbanethacker/evilhack/dumplog/1582310616.evil.html 07:30 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:991 07:38 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 07:47 -!- mobileuser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:3388 07:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:3571 07:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:3571 07:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) rejected atheism by consulting with the priest of Huhetotl, on T:3577 07:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:3950 08:08 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:11 second time in my life Rodney has stolen PYEC (but that was my first 3.6 ascension so maybe this is a good sign?) 08:11 also forgot where i put the amulet 08:12 what's that game you guys all play that tells you where everything is ? 08:12 crawler or something? 08:14 rebatela, dungeon crawl stone soup (and its variants) 08:15 ahhh yes. thank you 08:17 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) wished for "Blessed +2 fixed greased tie-dye shirt of shambhala", on T:20850 08:18 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:19 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 08:22 i can't figure out why i'm burdened 08:22 ahhh boh unblessed 08:22 d'oh 08:23 I don't even NEED this pyec back 08:23 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 08:23 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 08:23 gonna die anyway 08:26 jilles: I'm not particularly knowledgeable about crawl, is DCSS to Linley's Dungeon Crawl as NetHack is to Hack? 08:29 i have 662 HP and seriously can't remember where i put the amulet 08:29 this resembles my real life 08:31 you regularly misplace amulets in real life? 08:31 -!- ruffni has joined #hardfought 08:33 yep 08:33 * aosdict gives rebatela a potion of object detection 08:33 i'm about to die 08:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 2293 points, T:8476, killed by a giant beetle, while praying 08:35 i just want my pyec back... double trouble. i don't like this rodney fella very much 08:36 hah 08:36 he had the amulet and my pyec 08:36 piss off 08:37 -!- Bliss56 has joined #hardfought 08:37 that actually worked out pretty well 08:38 mfer 08:38 keeps coming back 08:38 it's fine now that he doesn't have pyec 08:41 are you playing as giant monk rebatela? :O 08:41 yes 08:41 omg good luck 08:41 same game i've been playing for like 2 months 08:42 how tf do you have that much hp 08:42 haha 08:43 alcehmy mostly 08:45 seems like I need to start doing that 08:45 I 08:46 I've given up on giant monk for a bit and trying illithid wizard 08:49 they are fun in the early game (giant monk) but figuring out reflection/mr can be tough. The trick is to get those staffs (staves?) they let you spellcast, which reminds me i need to haste and reflect myself 08:50 I had a run where I had 4 magic lamps and a throne wish by like dlvl 14 or so 08:50 in evilhack? nice. yeah, wishes are hard to come by 08:50 which went really well, until a salamander dragged me into lava 08:51 didn't realise they could do that so didn't look out for it 08:51 :D 08:52 so many little things like that.... as if the game (vanilla) wasn't hard enough lol 08:52 i was strangled by a sea dragon on the water plane 08:52 i know now to wear magical breathing. But i don't think i have to as a giant? 08:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:41662 08:55 I don't think you have to yeah, but idk the the planes ones are different 08:56 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) had a mithril dwarvish spear entrusted to him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:54800 08:58 EPI for EvilHack: Another R class monster, but it randomly teleports your items. 09:01 dislike 09:01 lol 09:07 shrug 09:10 what's the highest you can charge magic harp to? it's like 18 or something? 09:11 !PoM 09:11 APic: The moon is waxing gibbous; full moon in 1 day. 09:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) killed Baphomet, on T:42358 09:11 wiki says 20 09:12 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) wished for "Blessed fixed greased bag of holding", on T:26502 09:19 <{Demo}> ooh, chaos1 stormu 09:20 -!- VaderFLAG_ has joined #hardfought 09:20 -!- VaderFLAG has quit [Killed (weber.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 09:20 -!- VaderFLAG_ is now known as VaderFLAG 09:20 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) destroyed Lich, the Fiend of Earth, on T:27385 09:20 <@Suzune Takada> what's ndnh 09:22 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) killed Kary, the Fiend of Fire, on T:27513 09:22 notdNetHack, a variant 09:23 <{Demo}> a dnethack variant 09:25 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) killed Kraken, the Fiend of Water, on T:27658 09:26 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) killed Tiamat, the Fiend of Wind, on T:27737 09:26 those fiends are going DOWN 09:26 <@Suzune Takada> variant of variant... interesting 09:27 Is Hack itself related to Rogue? 09:28 <@Suzune Takada> ah 09:28 <@Suzune Takada> i see 09:29 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) killed Garland, on T:27971 09:30 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) destroyed Chaos, on T:27996 09:30 is demo6 the same as demo2 etc.? 09:31 <{Demo}> demo6 is me, yeas 09:31 hi :) 09:32 <{Demo}> hi 09:32 Hello {Demo}, Welcome to #hardfought 09:36 -!- Guest69971 is now known as irina|log 09:36 -!- ruffni has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:41 still have an ndnh game running lol 09:41 vampire barb 09:41 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:55839 09:41 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:55842 09:43 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:55887 09:43 <{Demo}> oh hmm, random ARS in oona tower 09:43 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 09:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 09:44 <{Demo}> wonder if that beats dread of dantalion 09:44 ok lets see whats that 09:44 <{Demo}> oh hey stenno has ARS too now 09:44 <{Demo}> its cleaver but for barbs that start with a twohanded sword 09:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) wished for "blessed +2 fixed helm of brilliance", on T:43113 09:45 double damage 09:45 <{Demo}> yeah dnh buffs cleaver 09:45 sick 09:45 <{Demo}> shatters enemy weps + double dmg 09:45 <{Demo}> trying to figure out if i wanna go ARS or continue with dread 09:45 <{Demo}> ARS is 2x dmg, dread is +d10 09:46 Really, the list of things that dnh nerfs from vanilla is probably a lot smaller. 09:46 <{Demo}> dnh has a different difficulty curve 09:46 <{Demo}> the end game has monsters with a lot higher numbers, rather 09:47 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:47 <{Demo}> ok yeah id be dumb to not go ARS 09:47 whats BR:6 ? 09:47 Breath 09:48 If a sea monster tries to drown you, it subtracts from that number. 09:48 Also amulets of strangulation. 09:48 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 09:48 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 09:48 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 09:48 oh ok 09:48 <{Demo}> and diving under water while swimming 09:48 nifty 09:54 damn 09:54 such is the way of the garo 09:55 "I'm gonna make sure YOU die without leaving a corpse." 10:03 <{Demo}> just realized how op early bael kill could be for ndnh acu 10:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:43704 10:09 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) killed Jack, on T:28926 10:13 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:56029 10:13 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:56030 10:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:44719 10:18 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:44783 10:20 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 10:20 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 10:23 YANI: Gelatinous cubes can pass through iron bars, but anything in their inventory becomes embedded in the iron bars after they leave the space. 10:23 (Wiztesting seems to indicate they can't pass through bars currently). 10:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:45040 10:31 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) wished for "Blessed +2 fixed greased quicksilver", on T:30032 10:31 <{Demo}> how i wish i had feet :( 10:32 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:33 I wonder if Vlad can flee to the new evilhack cavern level and cause the game to be unwinnable 10:34 there's supposed to be something in place for invocation items falling into the abyss 10:34 I don't know if it's implemented yet 10:35 I’m pretty sure it’s ot 10:35 it says in the commit message that for now it's not implemented 10:35 bit nasty if Vlad runs there and dies, if that's possible 10:36 so you can make the game unwinnable by just chucking the bell of opening in too 10:37 yeah though there's no mechanic that encourages stupidity 10:37 another strenuous disagreement between me and K2 was the role of life saving when falling into the abyss 10:37 AntiGulp: thanks for the tip about filth dragon scale mail! Just wiztested a new kit and it totally neutralizes demogorgon. 10:37 bouquet: :) 10:37 I think it should teleport you somewhere safe, but he made it so that life saving just doesn't work 10:38 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) wished for "Blessed +2 fixed premium heart", on T:30347 10:38 so if you typo into the abyss... congrats, game over 10:38 because "the player is responsible for discipline" 10:38 can't imagine an amulet of life saving also teleporting 10:39 <{Demo}> oh hey, found the book of lost names as an acu. too bad i can't use it as toilet paper cause that's about how valuable it is to me 10:39 amateurhour: it does that if you drown far away from land or in lava 10:39 so there's plenty of precedent 10:39 I'd imagine it'd stop you being smooshed and then you'd be pooped out at -1 dlvl 10:39 ah fair enough, didn't realise it did that 10:41 K2’s recent addition to EvilHack of monster hurtling from Splice has a ton of issues, in that (a) he didn’t pull the code to prevent stunlock, and (b) he took what I consider to be an incredibly evil feature and made it much nastier. 10:41 …which I guess is actually EvilHack’s MO, so that’s probably fine. 10:41 what's that? 10:41 I think he might be doubling down too much on the evilness 10:42 amateurhour: In Splice, giants and a few other monsters have a chance of knocking the player back. This change has an enormous number of unforseen consequences: https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/issues/14 10:42 EvilHack’s implementation is considerably nastier, to the point that I don’t think K2 realizes how evil it is 10:44 the issue you(?) opened makes the valk quest sound insane lol 10:44 clearly the fix is to ban levitation there :-P 10:44 Oh it is. Valk quest is now one of the hardest in Splice, completely unintentionally 10:44 ban levitation... in the valk quest 10:44 yes that will be fun 10:44 ais523: PERFECT 10:44 or make it so that if you do get knocked back in the valk quest while levitating 10:45 you hurtle a huge distance 10:45 actually you could do that even outside the valk quest, it kind-of makes flavour sense 10:45 Lord Surtur hits! You turn into a pinball! 10:45 hurtle straight into the arms of another giant 10:45 I was about to say, knockback when levitating should make you fly like 3x as far since you're not slowing yourself with anything but wind resistance <-- YANI 10:46 aosdict: That would make the plane of air really easy though, right? 10:46 AntiGulp: one of the giants in the mines branch (tavern or ?) knocked me across the lava. Thankfully I was playing a vampire so I flew across. If I wasn't flying I would have been dead. 10:46 and no need to be specific to valk quest 10:46 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) destroyed Marionette, on T:30919 10:46 AntiGulp: how easy is it to get a monster knocking you back in a favorable direction on Air? 10:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:46284 10:47 fwiw, NetHack probably needs more ways for monster attacks to be nasty to the player without being easily negated and without ruining the game 10:47 aosdict: I mean in vanilla. Kick something to make yourself hurtle 10:47 knockback seems promising in that regard, but you'd need to take care to avoid cheap deaths 10:48 ais523: I was considering doing a writeup on all the interesting threats the game can pose to you in the early game that just sort of... don't happen in the late game? and for no apparent reason? 10:48 for instance, stealing 10:49 aosdict: isn't the "no apparent reason" magic cancellation? 10:49 if you gave a late game monster theft, that would be an interesting late game threat of a sort that doesn't currently exist 10:49 Imo that’s one of the more frustrating things about nethack, from a gameplay perspective. Early game there are so many interesting variables to deal with, and in the late game so many of them fall away. 10:49 but the only monsters that can steal things are early game nymphs and monkeys 10:49 but the late game having less obstacles is part of the rewarding feeling from accumulating items/levels 10:49 ais523: since when does magic cancellation affect theft 10:50 arch-monkey 10:50 I am really disappointed by grid bugs 10:50 they have such an interesting mechanic, but are so weak you don't notice it 10:50 "this is easy because I played well, got good things, made good decisions" etc 10:50 aosdict: my point was that MC affects most mechanics like that, I can't remember the exact set 10:50 amateurhour: I would bet that that's a minority opinion 10:50 I think nymphs/monkeys are affected by AC, not MC, aren't they? 10:50 but still, it's a similar "scales throughout the game" defence 10:51 amateurhour: the general opinion is that the late game is *boring* because there aren't as many challenges you have to think your way around 10:51 amateurhour: I agree, and I think the player should absolutely be rewarded for what they’ve accumulated. I think it comes back to the same issue that gets brought up a lot, in that the game is essentially “solved” by the time the player hits gehennom. 10:51 ais523: That might be a shortcoming of MC's protection being a fixed rate through the entire game amongst things it blocks 10:52 delete gehennom, put the planes right there :^) 10:52 aosdict: oh, I like that, some sort of scaling MC resistance on monsters would be very interesting 10:52 presumably with a higher limit for player MC 10:53 by "MC resistance" do you mean more like "MC penetration"? 10:53 Ooh, that could be interesting 10:53 yes 10:53 I think monster HD is the right variable to scale on? 10:53 ais523, in dcss, knockback exists but doesn't push you into lava or deep water; that could work since it's still dangerous but doesn't instakill you 10:54 well, NetHack lava is much more survivable than DCSS lava 10:54 but still probably more lethal than it should be 10:54 knockback can still push you into traps or prevent you from taking staircases 10:54 It's now impossible for the player to die in lava in DCSS 10:54 ... so it's not _very_ lethal 10:54 Monster HD doesn't vary monster to monster, which might be a good thing about scaling on it 10:54 it would be nice if swimming through lava were occasionally a legitimate strategy 10:54 I’ve never played DCSS. Is it worth trying out? 10:55 I think DCSS is probably best worth playing if you find NetHack unsatisfying 10:55 but at the same time HD is meant mainly for HP calculations 10:55 if you enjoy the way that NetHack works, DCSS is likely to just be frustrating 10:55 so I'm not sure how well it would double as an offensive stat 10:55 and vice versa 10:55 AntiGulp: I think so but a) I might be biased b) if you like it, it will cause some aspects of NetHack to become utterly exasperating c) let me recommend our excellent variant, Stoat Soup :-) 10:55 AntiGulp: have you read ais523's article about roguelike strategy headroom 10:56 perhaps you could use max HP so that it could a) vary for out-of-depth monster spawns, b) be easily stethoscoped 10:56 NetHack always satisfies 10:56 anyway, DCSS has a huge focus on combat, the rest of the game is basically stripped away into a few button presses 10:56 the sense of exploration is totally missing, other than "this area is cleared", "this area isn't cleared" 10:57 also most dangerous fights, the correct option is to run away, which I find very tedious; the game has few natural chokepoints, so when a dangerous monster appears it is nearly always best to just run round it 10:57 before it falls too far into backscroll, YANI: ^^^ above discussion about non-constant, scalable magic cancellation 10:58 (whereas NetHack has a chokepoint at every set of stairs, meaning that out-of-depth encounters actually need to be dealt with creatively) 10:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) destroyed Pestilence, on T:46496 10:58 DCSS is also much less good than NetHack at cluing you in to what you did wrong after a death, or at least used to be (this has maybe been improved since I gave up playing it) 10:59 Hmmmm, that doesn’t sound quite my style. I enjoy NetHack/variants and CCDDA specifically for the exploration and varied monster strategies. 10:59 and much more punishing of mistakes because it has few reliable escape items 10:59 some good points is that the monsters themselves are much more varied than in NetHack, and there's a wider spread of viable player strategies 10:59 *some good points are 10:59 [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Grandolar's ghost, the former Evoker, on T:5017 11:00 OK, that's definitely not so. One of DCSS's strengths is there are many powerful consumables which are actually useful in combat rather than being almost exclusively alchemy/dilution/blanking/polypiling fodder. 11:00 article on strategy headroom for anyone interested: http://nethack4.org/blog/strategy-headroom.html 11:00 Pinkbeast: I included that as "more viable player strategies" 11:00 but, DCSS's consumables mostly aren't universally useful, they're almost all somewhat situational 11:00 ais523: OK, but it's also not "few reliable escape items" - there are very many items that can be used to win or reset losing fights 11:01 Sure, you have to pick the right item - that's interesting. 11:01 the levels in DCSS are beautiful, you just hardly can appreciate them as you just zip by large areas 11:01 Pinkbeast: unless the game has changed a lost, I dispute this 11:01 *a lot 11:01 Also, "varied monster strategies" - DCSS's monsters are more interesting because they're actually dangerous. 11:01 wand of healing, potion of heal wounds, /maybe/ scroll of blink are the only universal escapes I can think of 11:02 maybe a few god powers? 11:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) destroyed Death, on T:46596 11:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha) killed the invisible Center of All, on T:46605 11:02 Wands of healing are gone, heal wounds pots aren't a universal escape, and I have no idea why you _want_ a universal escape. Picking the right option in a crisis is much more interesting. 11:02 Pinkbeast: because it makes the game much less punishing for new players who don't have all the threats memorized yet 11:03 Pinkbeast: with DCSS I never knew if I met the equivalent of a gnome with a wand of death or if I made a genuine mistake. (granted, I'm not sure if as a NetHack newbie I wouldn't have the same problem) 11:03 "DCSS is also much less good than NetHack at cluing you in to what you did wrong after a death" not entirely jokingly, print out a little card that says "hubris" and laminate it 11:03 in NetHack, few things can kill you within 2-3 turns if your character is remotely prepared 11:04 but how do you know if your character is prepared? 11:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Con Bat Mal Cha), 6098582 points, T:46618, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/m/malor/dnethack/dumplog/1583235418.dnh.txt 11:04 so if you meet a monster you've never met before, you can experiment a bit with it, then run away if it turns out you're underprepared (spending resources) and go look somewhere else 11:04 in DCSS, if you meet a monster you've never met before, there's a decent chance you just die 11:04 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:04 Memorised> you're allowed to inspect monsters to find out what they do. I mean, the game falls over itself to tell you things you might want to know. 11:04 unless you show your inventory to somebody knowledgeable and they tell you "you could have done X" 11:04 back when I played it it was intentionally cryptic about things like, e.g., how much melee damage a monster could deal to you compared to your maximum HP 11:04 (and the damage formula is so inconsistent that even letting the monster hit you a few times will give you no clue about that) 11:05 I've heard that that's improved to some extent since 11:05 ais523: That just wasn't my experience. You know what it can do, and you know what the escape options do, you reason about what would be appropriate. 11:05 For unarmed monsters the maximum damage is right there in the description; for armed monsters it's not quite so clear (alas) but you get a ballpark figure. 11:06 but compare to Brogue's "The kobold has a 50% chance to hit you, typically hits for 8% of your current health, and at worst, could defeat you in 8 hits" 11:06 heh, try doing *that* with nethack's speed system 11:06 with DCSS, at least when I played, a "typical" hit is much weaker than a max hit 11:06 Sure, Brogue tells you more. OTOH what tells you less? NetHack. Meet a minotaur, what indication is there that it's the first thing in 20 levels that actually hits hard? 11:07 Pinkbeast: the amount of damage you take when it hits you 11:07 which will /not/ kill you in the first hit 11:07 now you have escape items to survive, if you weren't expecting to be hit that hard 11:08 ais523: I'm not really seeing the difference here, except that DCSS let you get an indication of the damage in advance if you wanted. 11:08 [backscroll] regarding vlad's cavern and dropping things into the abyss like invocation items are the AoY - dont want to make the game unwinnable so that'll be addressed 11:08 just figuring out the best way to handle it 11:09 You don't get unexpectedly clobbered so often in NetHack, but that's because almost all monsters you meet in the middle game are irrelevant. 11:10 K2: as I've said, make any item which falls in on that floor either migrate to the level in gehennom with the vlad stairs or the vibrating square level 11:10 how it works for holes, pretty much 11:10 K2: “The amulet of Yendor bounces back out of the abyss and into your hand! You feel like that was a close call.” 11:11 hah 11:11 "The Amulet of Yendor bounces back out of the abyss into Rodney's hand!" "Thanks, mortal!" 11:11 AntiGulp et al: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/crawl-vs-nh.txt (this is an email I sent to Paxed after a discussion at the Worldcon, but I think it's generally applicable, and it's not _all_ "why NetHack is bad") 11:12 I’m reading through ais’s blog post, I’ll read this next 11:12 * aosdict bookmarks that to mine for YANIs 11:13 migrate randomly to a level between vlads stairs and the VS level 11:13 Pinkbeast: well, think of it this way: suppose you go into the Abyss early-game and meet a hellephant 11:13 what is the correct course of action? 11:13 K2: but not inside the interior of the wizard's tower 11:13 right 11:14 that sounds sufficiently evil 11:14 ais523: Run away, probably. (But if you get Abyssed early, you are alas probably going to die) 11:14 K2, thought this was drill weekend 11:14 Blinking out of range would be good but you might well blink into comedy 11:14 you can't; I specifically picked a monster you can't run away from early game 11:14 OTOH, before hellephants were introduced, entering the Abyss early game was fairly safe if you were > average speed 11:15 how is an unspoiled player meant to know how dangerous entering the Abyss is for their specific character, and/or survive it if it is too dangerous? 11:16 fwiw, I used to have a lot of fun in DCSS trying to get the Abyssal rune at level 1 11:16 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) wished for "Blessed figurine of a throne archon", on T:32393 11:16 something which is no longer remotely reliable 11:16 Hang on, there typically _aren't_ opportunities to voluntarily enter the Abyss early. Hellephants are very rare in the Abyss (although there's all sorts of other nasty-and-fast stuff). 11:16 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) killed the Lady of Pain, on T:32395 11:17 ais523: Your blog post about strategy headroom is fantastic. Really interesting. 11:17 Bliss56 it is 11:17 i finished most everything i needed to finish this morning, just trying to get my clothing record to load hah 11:17 Pinkbeast: Lugonu abandonment 11:17 it wasn't a reliable strategy because Lugonu had a tendency to arbitrarily kill you, but often you could get the rune and escape the Abyss first 11:18 Most Abyssal entrances are found in Depths (and the game will tell you that on turn 1 if you are curious) and I think the player might reasonably expect that if branch X is reached from branch Y, it is also more dangerous than branch Y. 11:18 this wasn't meant to win, but as a challenge run 11:18 ais523: Now you don't have to do that - Lucy worshippers just start in the Abyss. 11:18 yes, but the rune didn't spawn 11:18 Pinkbeast: what variants have you played? 11:18 until you left and re-entered 11:19 ais523: OK, again, Lucy worshippers just start in the Abyss. If you want to work down to A:3 and look for the rune, you can. 11:19 fwiw, last time I played, I found the Abyss almost trivially easy as soon as you could reliably enter it, although I think it's been toughened up since 11:19 the abyssal rune was a common choice for my second or even first rune, because some of the branch end vaults are ridiculous 11:19 Pinkbeast: bear in mind that I haven't played DCSS for years; A:3 didn't exist at the time 11:20 bhaak: Spork (both a bit in June '18 and when it was new). Slash (or maybe Slash'em) when it was _the_ variant. Stuck my nose into Un some years ago. SLEX (not for me).Not really the new cool ones, alas. 11:21 ais523: I understand that, I'm just describing the current state (and saying that if you're not an AK, this "entered the Abyss early, hellephant" situation is unlikely, and there is information about the likely peril in the Abyss available.) 11:22 I guess my complaint is 11:22 I don't want the game to tell me "the Abyss is dangerous, stay out" 11:22 I want the game to show me the Abyss, and give me a reasonable chance of escaping if I'm willing to abandon my progress 11:22 you want a sense of discovery, not a textbook list of "here's where you can go next" 11:22 'hellephant' 11:22 sounds cool 11:23 <{Demo}> no k2, bad 11:23 now you're giving him ideas 11:23 this is what you get for talking about dcss 11:23 i always have ideas 11:23 who cares, it's probably in slex already :-D 11:23 lol 11:23 yeah but no one cares what's in slex 11:23 and if it isnt, it soon will be 11:24 The majority of branches _do_ work as you would like. The Abyss and Pandaemonium are exceptions (and realistically, you'll actually discover the Abyss is dangerous by being involuntarily Abyssed) 11:24 because slex has random gen monsters 11:24 * K2 waves at amy reading the log 11:24 K2: FR, orbs of fire 11:24 There are 27,000 monsters. EVERYTHING exists in Slex. 11:24 Pinkbeast: I have a few branch endings in mind 11:24 if your variant has boatloads of randomgen monsters there's not really a distinction for non-randomgen monsters 11:25 Some branch endings are pretty grim but usually what kills people is not inescapable death, it's failure to recognise a crisis emerging. 11:25 -!- j has joined #hardfought 11:25 aosdict: That’s one of my (many) issues with Slex. 11:25 AntiGulp: hellephants are only hallucinatory monsters in slex 11:25 K2: also if you swipe Crawl monsters they come pre-tiled :-) 11:25 -!- j is now known as Guest5185 11:25 heh 11:26 No, K2, don’t be tempted. Join me in the land of manually writing xpm tiles using a text editor. 11:26 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:26 i need to un-fuck tiles for evilhack 11:26 xpm? 11:26 why xpm? 11:26 as in, they dont exist 11:26 an ancient graphics format 11:26 ^ 11:26 A lot of the silly Zot monsters would make good hallucinatory monsters - curse toes, death cobs... 11:26 I guess the argument there is "try writing .png or .jpg in a text editor" 11:27 if you're writing tiles why not use the existing method used by nethack 11:27 aosdict: That *is* the existing method 11:27 even better, use NH4's tilecompile 11:27 well that's not xpm 11:27 Pinkbeast: okay, that makes sense. IMO, it doesn't make much sense to talk game design with nethack post castle. the game design in nethack seemed always ad-hoc and post-castle possibly almost non existant (or at least not succeeding in whatever the devteam intended to do). also looking for improvements is probably better in variants than in vanilla, as vanilla is rather conservative in that regard. 11:27 it should be at least mildly compatible to other variants 11:27 xpm is data structured as parseable C code 11:28 speaking of castle... bhaak, is a fix coming soon for the level flipping in 3.7? 11:28 I use tiletool.pl to do most of my work. 11:28 same 11:28 jonadab saves the day again 11:28 Pinkbeast: but if you have played spork, you already got as far away from main vanilla play towards meaningful strategies as possible. (maybe evil can give you a run for your money, though) 11:28 link tiletool? 11:28 based thanks jonadab 11:28 K2: yes. 11:28 bhaak: My impression (as detailed in the linked document, and obviously not based on vast experience alas) is that variants do try to address the "99% of monsters irrelevant" problem, but then you're just running up against the way there are few good consumables. 11:29 bhaak thanks 11:29 DCSS can throw all kinds of nasty stuff at you because you can easily have 30 different options for dealing with it. 11:29 NetHack also is difficult because of the sheer amount of obscure detail to memorise. ← this is my major point of disagreement: if you're trying to memorise all of that, then you're probably doing it wrong 11:29 Pinkbeast: That’s essentially what I try to do. It’s a deeply frustrating balance to try and strike. 11:29 rather, you're meant to figure it out and discover a small subset of it, with different people finding different subsets 11:29 K2: I thought it was on his website but evidently not 11:30 AntiGulp: I think what's needed is a) to make more consumables useful and b) make them usable (eg the quaff-out-of-bag option suggested that takes two turns) 11:30 ais523: I dunno what to say to that, I memorised a large lump of obscure detail and then started winning the game :-/ 11:31 wooo clothing record page finally loaded 11:31 Pinkbeast: I'd express it differently: optimal play in NetHack is not fun, yet the game sort-of draws players towards it 11:31 suboptimal play is entirely capable of winning and much more fun 11:31 ^ 11:32 its all about the challenge and the struggle 11:32 Hence, why I play elberethless / polypileless and still occasionally quaff and read test things. 11:32 she gets it 11:32 Pinkbeast: there are only so much items in nethack. some are way overpowered, like the unicorn horn (and almost every variant nerfs that somewhat), some are quite useless. that goes back to the missing game design goals. but IMHO NetHack would be a much better game if it were shorter. then all those issues would no longer be there as the game would end ideally around that time when the player becomes OP 11:33 I always played elberethless but that kind of thing's OK, there's no grey areas in the challenge imposed. 11:33 bhaak: Mmm, and that's what I'd try to address if I were K2 11:33 actually I suspect that half the trap items in NetHack are just to prevent use-testing being overpowered 11:33 even as it is, I believe engrave-testing wands is overpowered 11:33 bhaak: you know, go nerf the unicorn horn .... 11:33 (in the sense that there's very little reason not to do it and it removes the creativity from item identification) 11:34 K2: i've committed the fix, but it'll take a while to show up 11:34 Rogue has a very finely balanced use-test metagame, almost all the situations in which using an item would identify it have ways that they can backfire in interesting ways 11:34 I saw one of the DCSS developers give a talk where they said the trouble with hypothetically optimal play options is not just for people who end up (eg) pudding farming. If you lose and think "if I'd pudding farmed I'd have won", this does not spark joy. 11:35 paxed cool, sooner we can patch that the better 11:35 Angband had a Damascene conversion to use-testing a few years and it greatly improved the game. 11:36 Pinkbeast: obviously the fix is to make pudding farming more dangerous than not pudding farming 11:36 which is arguably the case even in 3.4.3 11:36 most pudding farmers underestimate a) what could go wrong, b) how easy the game is for non-pudding-farmers 11:36 There’s a really good roguelike celebration talk on optimal play vs. fun play that extensively discusses pudding farming as an example. Let me see if I can find it… 11:36 bhaak: I think gods not just being interchangeable ciphers is the other thing I'd really like to see which would improve the game 11:36 hmm, now I'm reminded of NH4's pudding AI 11:36 OK but pudding farming is just an example here, the specifics of pudding farming aren't that important. 11:37 which was mostly introduced for performance reasons, but has a side effect of making pudding farming require a little more thought, because after a while the puddings will stop cooperating 11:37 Here it is. DCSS discussion on the hypothetically optimal player: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MGNS39D0B0 11:37 From what I remember it was pretty interesting. 11:37 _Particularly_ this not-sparking-of-joy is a problem when there's something that anyone might do a bit of but if you do a huge amount it gets silly, and where do you draw the line for a challenging game? It's easy to draw the line around Elbereth. 11:40 evilhack addresses the e word bit in a fashion 11:41 K2: I'd make the suggestion again but you've heard it :-) 11:41 I don't think I've ever managed to unlock the e word in evilhack so far 11:41 were the 3.6.x Elbereth nerfs not enough? 11:41 But I don't mean for the designer. I mean for the player who can say "well, I won't use the E word". (For the designer, I think the challenge is to make that player say "no, I will use the E word, it doesn't make the game boring now.") 11:42 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 11:42 -!- rebatela has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42 Pinkbeast: making the gods meaningful or differentiated is harder than it looks. I thought a while about it and didn't come up with a good solution. but I would like to see somebody else try and succeed 11:43 -!- Guest5185 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:43 I think part of the issue with E word is that there isn’t a cost associated with it, or a reason not to do it. Once I get an athame, there’s no reason not to spam E word repeatedly. It doesn’t cost me anything except my attention span. 11:43 ais523 in evilhack, the player cant use Elbereth until their character has discovered it in-game 11:43 bhaak: I daresay it's tricky, yes, but it would add enormous replay value 11:43 K2: well, the main purpose of the word is for early survival for characters that have weak starts 11:43 so I'm not sure it has any remaining gameplay value in evilhack 11:43 There’s almost never a non-optimal situation to use E word, except when it straight up will not work 11:44 there are more opportunities to discover it in evilhack than vanilla 11:44 Essetially, using Elbereth is not a “meaningful decision.” It’s just something you have to remember to do. 11:44 paxed: is that a challenge? :-) right now, I'm not so concerned about the gameplay, it's nethack after all, but more about some technical framework issues. the next big thing I want to do is going after utf8, not getting sidetracked by gameplay changes. 11:44 Part of the reason I stopped largely playing vanilla NH is, well, I've won every class, what now? Even the keenest DCSS player will never exhaust all the meaningfully distinct god/species/build combos 11:45 [hdf-us] [slex] AsrielDreemurr (Wiz Akt Fem Cha) killed Denise, on T:3273 11:45 how many conducts does dcss have? 11:45 In before Amy points out you probably can't exhaust all the SLEX species/class combos :-) 11:45 Pinkbeast give some of the newer variants a try 11:46 splicehack, xnethack 11:46 maybe even evilhack :) 11:46 stenno: Getting n runes where 3 > n >= 15 11:46 K2: June's not _that_ far off. :-) 11:46 I’m trying to do a lot with Splice next version to add more strategic, meaningful choices before Junethack. Gonna *EXPERIMENT*. 11:47 :) 11:50 stenno, the ones under "One-time points" in http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~ebering/crawl/csdc/0.24/rules.html are example conducts 11:50 Oh, I forgot about CSDC, the cosplay challenge, the Secret Santa... silly me 11:51 I think CSDC is great fun 11:51 perhaps something similar could be done with nethack 11:51 (One Secret Santa this year (someone gives you a gameplay challenge which they think is appropriate to you) was to be a cat that can't open (or close) doors - to play a felid that has to meow outside doors until someone opens them) 11:51 or a suitable variant 11:52 [hdf-us] [slex] AsrielDreemurr (Wiz Akt Fem Cha) killed Raini, on T:3425 11:53 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 12:00 [hdf-us] [slex] AsrielDreemurr (Wiz Akt Fem Cha) killed Pero Pero, on T:3627 12:00 [hdf-us] [slex] AsrielDreemurr (Wiz Akt Fem Cha) killed Dango San-kyodai, on T:3630 12:04 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:05 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 12:15 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 12:18 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 12:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] every (Hea Gno Mal Neu) entered a shop, on T:829 12:21 -!- Tommi has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 12:41 <@Iconoclast> why does it feel so good to drink water after not drinking for a while 12:41 <@Iconoclast> i can feel myself hydrating 12:44 in nethack? don't drink the water. You want to bless them 12:44 <@Iconoclast> no 12:44 <@Iconoclast> irl water 12:44 why doesn't nethack offer me an option to quaff a moat I'm standing on top of with water walking 12:44 literally unplayable 12:45 <@Iconoclast> although some blessed water irl wouldnt feel bad 12:45 maybe your body knows what it needs. 12:45 rewards you with a satisfied feeling 12:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] every (Hea Gno Mal Neu) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:1239 12:49 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 12:49 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 12:49 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 12:52 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) entered the Planes, on T:57967 12:52 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:57968 12:55 <@Pacra> @ais523 whenever I see your name I recall the absolute joy I had of reading your step-by-step of creating the tool assisted nethack run on pastebin somewhere 12:55 use !tell ais523 12:55 he left 12:56 <@Pacra> oh dear 12:56 Pacra: why does your name sound familiar 12:56 were you a very good nethack player at some point 12:56 <@Pacra> i was a very good crawl player at some point 12:56 hmm 12:56 <@Pacra> the 'worst of the best' if you will 12:57 <@Pacra> i stopped playing crawl after people stopped playing dieselrobins 12:57 <@Pacra> which was the only interesting thing to me anymore 12:57 <@Pacra> also I had a kid 12:57 well congrats 12:57 <@Pacra> thanks! he's napping, so I get to play evilhack for a bit ; ] 12:58 <@Pacra> I recall your name from ##crawl 12:58 i was in there a few times but not exactly a regular 12:59 maybe something programming-related? 12:59 ah well 12:59 maybe its was just a similar name 12:59 <@Pacra> maybe python or haskell on freenode? 12:59 <@Pacra> or maybe something SA-related 13:00 <@Pacra> could have also been me giving advice in #nethack back in the day 13:00 <@Pacra> probably that 13:00 yeah something like that 13:01 like 7-8 years ago or earlier 13:01 <@Pacra> definitely 13:01 must be it then 13:04 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed Pestilence, on T:58198 13:04 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the saddled White Horse, on T:58198 13:04 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 13:10 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed Famine, on T:58230 13:11 <@Pacra> someone seems close to a win : ] 13:11 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the saddled Black Horse, on T:58239 13:11 Going smoothly so far 13:11 <@Pacra> oh man on IBM graphics too 13:11 @Pacra if he dies 13:12 Y o u d i e . 13:12 🗡️ 13:12 <@Pacra> may I see inventory for a moment VaderFLAG 13:12 <@Pacra> i knocked on wood IRL dont worry 13:12 <@Pacra> very nice 13:15 <@Iconoclast> better yet 13:15 <@Iconoclast> he dies the way vader dies 13:15 <@Iconoclast> hopes for vorpal 13:16 It's true, Vorpal has not been generated this game 13:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] every (Hea Gno Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2163 13:18 Death reaches out with its deadly touch towards the giant ant. 13:18 Thanks, ant 13:19 <@Iconoclast> its sacrifice will not be forgotten 13:20 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 3984630 points, T:58308, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/V/VaderFLAG/evilhack/dumplog/1583331751.evil.html 13:20 <@Iconoclast> nice 13:21 <@Pacra> whoo 13:21 congrats VaderFLAG, that was fun to watch 13:22 Nice to not royally fuck up on astral 13:22 Nice, indeed 13:22 <@Iconoclast> is the only possible combination in the millions of turns? 13:23 <@Iconoclast> ascending on 696969 for the cleanest out 13:23 haha 13:23 Well that's on the todo list 13:24 evilhack's new archeologist quest weapon is fun 13:25 <@Pacra> @vaderflag tell me more about Dwarf Memorial /oD 13:25 Oh well I kicked a friendly dwarf and gave him my wand of wishing, and he wished for a wand of death, but he never got the chance to use it - but it was generated 0:0 13:25 So it felt like he sacrificed his life for nothing 13:25 And I felt bad 13:26 lol 13:26 I meant to charge that drat 13:26 <@Pacra> hhaha 13:26 GG Vader 13:31 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] Geewoody (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered a shop, on T:185 13:38 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:4382 13:42 [hdf-us] [xnh] arnibald (Arc Gno Mal Neu), 383 points, T:1700, killed by a small mimic 13:42 good job VaderFLAG 13:45 thanks 13:48 -!- bouquet has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50 -!- bouquet has joined #hardfought 13:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] Geewoody (Kni Hum Mal Law), 541 points, T:1619, killed by a homunculus 14:08 [hdf-us] [xnh] Grouchy (Bar Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:6919 14:13 -!- Tommi has joined #hardfought 14:14 <@Iconoclast> the best poly form 14:15 I want to thank whoever suggested me using VS Code for debugging dgamelaunch. I got it working today on a Ubuntu Virtual Machine after some hardwork. 14:15 Fitting karma for a kitten-killer 14:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] every (Hea Gno Mal Neu) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:3518 14:18 -!- Tommi has left #hardfought 14:18 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 14:19 -!- Tommi has joined #hardfought 14:19 -!- Tommi has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha), 7709 points, T:7448, murdered by a desert jinn, while sleeping 14:22 can't a bro take a nap in sokoban without getting stabbed jeesh! 14:23 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Sam Dwa Mal Law) destroyed post163's ghost, the former Esquire, on T:3019 14:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:531 14:24 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought 14:26 <@Iconoclast> yeah 14:26 <@Iconoclast> weird times innit 14:26 <@Iconoclast> cant even sleep in a dark dungeon or else something is getting into you 14:28 so rude! 14:29 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:34 -!- truculent has joined #hardfought 14:37 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] JazzCat (Bar Hum Fem Neu) had Werebane bestowed upon her by Crom, on T:26486 14:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Hum Fem Law) bribed Asmodeus with 26 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:47969 14:48 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) destroyed Mina Harker, on T:35738 14:48 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) destroyed Carmilla, on T:35742 14:48 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:35745 14:48 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:35745 14:48 [hdf-us] [slex] AsrielDreemurr (Wiz Akt Fem Cha), 74556 points, T:6708, killed by a monster (Mr. Maganasipi, the shopkeeper) 14:48 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) destroyed Ilona Szilagy, on T:35747 14:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:1694 14:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] every (Hea Gno Mal Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:5427 14:55 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 15:08 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Pri Cen Mal Neu) rejected atheism by turning undead, on T:5201 15:08 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Pri Cen Mal Neu) destroyed krm26's human zombie, the former Pilferer, on T:5201 15:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:4821 15:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:4845 15:23 [hdf-us] [xnh] Grouchy (Bar Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:14806 15:24 [hdf-us] [slex] AsrielDreemurr (Kni Clk Fem Law), 3678 points, T:1206, quit 15:25 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Pri Cen Mal Neu) destroyed krm26's human zombie, the former Pilferer, on T:5326 15:27 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Pri Cen Mal Neu) destroyed krm26's human zombie, the former Pilferer, on T:5516 15:28 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 15:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:50199 15:39 splicehack YANI: if someone steals the amulet on astral and ascends on *your* altar, your god either still grants you immortality or at least an exalted position because after all, you did all the legwork getting it onto Astral. 15:40 Rejected atheism by turning undead?? 15:40 Yes 15:40 #turn is a special prayer 15:41 haha, I misread it as K2 becoming a zombie as well 15:41 Oh haha turning undead not turning INTO undead 15:41 I have such zombie eating on the mind I forgot what priests can do 15:41 semantics gottem again 15:41 Also Knights 15:41 braaaaaaainsssss 15:42 guys I think he might have actually turned into undead 15:43 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 15:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 15:48 lol what is this slex bashing? aosdict: you don't even play slex, how do you know that slex's non-randomized monsters aren't distinctive enough? :P 15:48 <@riker> hm i pulled evilhack's latest version and i'm seeing changes made to the amiga makefile 15:48 <@riker> that's not you right k2 :p 15:49 thats me 15:49 <@riker> what changes did you make to that 15:49 i added an extra vlad tower level 15:49 <@riker> ah, makes sense 15:49 !tell AntiGulp whaaaaat, why don't you like slex's bestiary? anything in particular that you dislike, or is it just a generic "there are too many monsters" complaint? :P 15:49 I'm on it, LarienTelrunya. 15:50 <@riker> reading the commit right now 15:50 <@riker> oh, no more cursed gain leveling away from demogorgon 15:50 <@riker> ouch 15:51 or any demon boss 15:51 <@riker> yeah, but demogorgon in particular is probably the most likely candidate for "pls get me out of here" 15:51 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:52 K2: I like how your stance is "yeah, I'm prepared for someone trying to build evilhack on amiga, I've kept the makefiles updated" 15:53 which reminds me, i may have neglicted adding other extra gehennom levels to that 15:53 need to check 15:55 -!- rebatela has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) wished for "3 Blessed potions of booze named Demo's finest triple sec", on T:41459 15:57 <{Demo}> oh wow, got all 3 15:57 <@riker> how much do you need? 15:57 <{Demo}> 3 15:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1015 points, T:5852, killed by a cave spider 16:08 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 16:08 -!- VaderFLAG is now known as Guest99837 16:08 -!- VaderFLAG_ has joined #hardfought 16:08 -!- Guest99837 has quit [Killed (tolkien.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 16:08 -!- VaderFLAG_ is now known as VaderFLAG 16:10 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Demo6 (Acu Sal Fem Law) was given their Quest, on T:41890 16:10 VaderFLAG congrats on your evilhack asc earlier 16:10 oh snap, does that mean you're number 1 in evilhack ascensions? 16:11 he is 16:11 nice! 16:11 \o/ 16:12 <{Demo}> why can monsters psychic blast me from anywhere on the level, but when polyd into a mind flayer I can only psychic them in a limited range? 16:12 bcuz ur bad and they're great 16:12 didn't advance the psychic blast skill beyond basic 16:15 \o/ \o\ /o/ 16:22 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha), 4734 points, T:3701, taken down by a giant ant 16:23 isn't it so that their psychic blast only affects you while you're in range though? 16:24 "you sense a wave of psychic energy" versus "a wave of psychic energy pours over you!" 16:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Hum Fem Law) bribed Baalzebub with 98 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:52922 16:51 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Sam Dwa Mal Law) completed Sokoban, acquiring a magic marker, on T:6181 16:53 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 17:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Hum Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:54854 17:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:54855 17:06 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:10 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Pri Cen Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring a silver amulet of reflection, on T:8365 17:26 NetHack 370-hdf updated (all servers) 17:26 ^ fix for the missing stairs on flipped castle 17:27 <@Iconoclast> YASI: there's a chance the amulet the priest carries is actually a copy and the real one is on astral on some player monster who thinks its got a copy 17:27 <@Iconoclast> have its name be xxx the Stupid 17:28 <@Iconoclast> hey k2 17:28 <@Iconoclast> is that the vlad castle idea thingy? 17:30 @Iconoclast the vlad cavern thing I made for evilhack, that was born of the idea you gave me a few days ago 17:31 <@Iconoclast> niiiiiiiiiice 17:31 its not live yet but I hope it will be before junethack 17:31 <@Iconoclast> where r my credits?1!!11!!!1 17:31 heh 17:31 its immortalized forever in this public chat log 17:36 <@Dharma> true 17:37 <@Dharma> i wonder 17:37 <@Dharma> do i look like different people on that shide 17:38 <@Dharma> *side 17:42 name changed and its a diff color 17:42 we dont get pics in irc 17:45 so we have YOU to blame for our future runs ending at Vlad 17:45 * amateurhour cracks knuckles 17:47 [hdf-us] [fh] nagwal (zor) (Arc Hum Fem Law) received advice from The Oracle, on T:792 17:48 K2: but there are still bugs with monsters being embedded in rock on flipped levels right? 17:49 sounds like a feature 17:49 an embedded monster can't kill you 17:50 aosdict probably 17:51 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Pri Ang Fem Law), 500 points, T:1185, killed by a poisonous corpse 17:59 -!- Graznop has joined #hardfought 17:59 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Mon Gul Mal Law), 132 points, T:209, killed by a poisonous corpse 18:00 Hi K2, just had my dungeon collapse on the EU hardfought server. Anything you can do? 18:04 I still think Elbereth should be an option you can only use a limited number of times. 18:05 A non-renewable limited escape option. 18:05 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Con Dwa Fem Cha), 92 points, T:268, killed by an iron ball collision 18:06 what does a dungeon collapse look like? 18:06 rocks fall, everyone dies? 18:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Ran Gno Mal Neu) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:773 18:07 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Ran Gno Mal Neu) entered a shop, on T:787 18:07 amateurhour: almost literally, yes 18:07 actually not almost. 18:08 it's literally "rocks fall, everyone dies" 18:08 just found a nice four inch blade I thought I had lost last summer at JRTC 18:08 woooop 18:08 Nothing quite so fun - "Suddenly the dungeon collapses." ...try to place hero off map <80,0> 18:08 Graznop yup I can recover it 18:08 the patch for that just went live a few min ago 18:09 haha, that's awesome 18:09 That would be excellent! 18:09 Graznop game is recovered 18:10 jonadab: While I love Evilhack's take that you need to learn it before using it, I can't help but think that it gets it backwards: when you tend to need it most, in the early game vulnerability, you don't have it, and when you have more resources and shouldn't need it, you do have (unlimited) access to it. 18:10 Thank you very much! 18:10 no prob. please dont die :) 18:10 K2: where's the commit that fixes this 18:10 https://github.com/NHTangles/NetHack36/compare/30ea464f39d1...4ac98d6534ef 18:10 I see nothing on github 18:11 paxed sent me a diff 18:11 or just compromise in a way such that everyone hates it and delete 'e who cannot be named' 18:12 aosdict: Yes, agree 100%. The "you have to learn it first" change to Elbereth makes flavor sense but is exactly wrong for gameplay. 18:12 oh wtf 18:12 amateurhour: I'd like to implement a ward system like dnh's but a lot less complicated 18:12 <@riker> aosdict: complicated in what way? I'm curious 18:12 Oh no... reloaded over moat on castle and drowned. Should have maybe tried to level teleport out? 18:13 lemme restore the backup Graznop... that death is bullshit 18:13 Really? Awesome 18:14 amateurhour, I think that would be a reasonable option 18:14 Just reached castle as a pacifist, and excited to have wand to play with... 18:14 perhaps adjust early game for wimpy roles a little 18:14 Graznop you have levitation? 18:14 Nope 18:14 ugh 18:15 @riker https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/WardProposal 18:15 game is recovered, if you had lev you could climb up and be ok 18:15 There was also an error message about being leashed to pet on anther level (VotD) 18:15 specific section "changes from dnethack" 18:16 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 18:16 I have cursed scrolls of teleport, but maybe in sack... 18:16 ok 18:16 the patch doesnt fix existing levels, just prevents it from happening in the future 18:17 Oh well, that's the RNG of life! 18:17 well said 18:18 good attitude :) at least you can drive on through the valley, maybe find a ring of lev there or later on 18:18 Sorry, I thought game lost? 18:18 i told ya, i recovered it again from a backup, that death is bullshit 18:19 [hdf-us] [fh] nagwal (zor) (Arc Hum Fem Law), 40104 points, T:3032, quit 18:19 i normally wouldnt do this but this is a special case 18:19 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Sam Dwa Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8548 18:20 save scumming as a paid service when? 18:20 i think i've only done this once before... luxidream and dynahack i think 18:21 Graznop looks like you're back at the castle 18:22 Thanks. Any one got any ideas how to get out of the moat? I can log in and out, but pretty sure I will drown if I make a move... 18:22 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 18:22 Stuck in moat by castle tower 18:23 can you freeze the moat below your feet with wand of cold 18:25 I don't think you can freeze the water while in it, and teleporting is out of the question probably 18:25 Good idea! will it work? 18:25 No teleport level 18:25 lets find out 18:26 might have to just freeze the moat to the side and take a turn of flubbing around in water and crawling out onto ice? 18:26 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:26 if you can't freeze below you 18:26 What about a bounce of the wand? 18:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:60028 18:26 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:60038 18:26 Ice to side - give the game somewhere to put me 18:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:60050 18:28 looks like he's above the moat, not in it 18:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Orcus, on T:58488 18:28 Hard to tell? 18:28 I don't think I'm in it - nothing is wet ye 18:28 yet 18:29 I want to believe you can freeze the square under you, but I've not checked or anything :') 18:30 [hdf-us] [slex] Geewoody (Ota Ame Mal Cha), 3569 points, T:3539, killed by a monster (superpowered astral elemental), while tickled by a bunch of feelers 18:32 That's a very concerning death message. 18:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:60250 18:34 Zapping down froze the moat! Yay 18:34 hell yeah 18:34 got cursed tele in your bag? 18:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) acquired The Amulet of Yendor, on T:60262 18:35 could save a couple of zaps by teleporting out 18:36 Nice nice 18:36 Silly me. Of course. 18:36 Pacifist with Grayswandir is a real joke of the gods 18:37 it's still useful as a handy dandy hallucination prevention tool 18:39 It was for Archie, my pet 18:40 did you get out? looked away for a second 18:40 Flipped valley of the dead makes my brain hurt 18:41 So I level teleported back down to VotD, to pick up pet. No sign of pet. Hmmm. Back upstairs and the dungeon collapses again. Some things are not meant to be 18:41 noooo 18:42 K2 ^ more fun 18:42 But thanks for the freezing idea, worked a treat. 18:42 k 18:42 And now we now that zapping a wand of cold downwards freezes the square your on 18:42 science has been advanced this day 18:43 Graznop game recovered. dont go back up via the stairs unless you have lev 18:44 or water walking boots equipped I suppose 18:44 but if Archie is dead and gone the pacifist dream is over ;_;7 18:44 Thanks K2. 18:45 Pacifist dream just beginning ;-) 18:45 I have charm monster 18:46 ooh nice 18:47 "don't go back up via stairs unless you have lev" - does this apply every time I potentially go up from VotD? 18:47 this game *only* 18:48 what's the "V." notation in your level overview? 18:49 VLAD. 18:49 Vault 18:50 discovery: I can stand underwater (with magical breathing on) and hit things not in the water with wands 18:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Ran Gno Mal Neu) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by Venus, on T:5894 18:51 heh 18:51 <{Demo}> discovery: I can stand on the ground and hit things that are flying and on the ground with the same wand zap 18:51 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Bar Inf Fem Cha) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:3322 18:51 Graznop: meh, "vlad was here", close enough ;) 18:51 Got it. Thanks K2 Now back on level 3. Well away (for a bit...) 18:51 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:763 18:52 awesome 18:52 glad it worked out 18:52 thanks for beta testing dev build :) 18:53 <{Demo}> hey k2 update on my ndnh game u helped rescue. it ended up turning into an epic booze quest even though apparently i didnt need to do that and i had to stop playing cause it started to feel too real 18:53 sweet! 18:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Ran Gno Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:6428 18:58 nobody crash anything, gonna go eat :P 18:59 Yes, sir. 18:59 YANI: Confused genocide doesn't necessarily genocide your own species; it chooses a random genocidable species (which might be your own) and genocides that. If blessed, it picks a random monster class containing at least one genocidable monster (including @) and genocides that. 19:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Ran Gno Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:6757 19:01 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Ran Gno Mal Neu) entered a temple, on T:6809 19:03 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Ran Gno Mal Neu), 3006 points, T:7043, killed by a bolt of cold 19:03 confused genocide could reverse genocide player monsters :P 19:04 I love that 19:04 Conf geno could also genocide whatever you happen to think about. Like the nearest monster, the last monster you saw, or the last monster you killed or hit you 19:05 or, maybe the one that killed the last character with the same name as you.. an ancestral feud 19:05 ooh 19:06 I'm loving this genocide YANI 19:06 I feel like genocide is a little too good and should only affect that dlvl :O 19:07 <@riker> that's in un I think? 19:07 VaderFLAG: The problem is getting players on board with that. Unnethack did it, but it also has a "nerfy" repuation. 19:07 Oh that's interesting 19:07 <{Demo}> un is so nerfy lol 19:08 yeah, it's great. 19:08 <{Demo}> unnethack is the real evilhack 19:09 unnethack has pretty decent "critical" acclaim but only modest "popular" acclaim (if those terms mean anything in such a small community" 19:09 <{Demo}> unnethack is a momentous variant 19:09 <{Demo}> that pioneered a lot 19:10 <{Demo}> henry ford supposedly pioneered a lot and u dont see me whipping a model t 19:10 unnethack makes it such that (usually) only cursed and blessed scrolls of genocide are worth reading 19:12 I'll have to try it out in junethack 19:14 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Sam Dwa Mal Law) had a pair of hiking boots entrusted to him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:9537 19:17 And they're... 19:17 Lev :/ 19:17 not fumble at least! 19:17 -!- Bliss56 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law), 818 points, T:2698, poisoned by a little dart 19:19 Levitation is actually p. nice 19:31 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought 19:39 -!- Graznop has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46 -!- amateurhour has quit [Quit: Zzz] 19:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:724 19:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Ran Elf Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:25328 19:52 -!- hothraxxa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52 [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Ran Elf Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a floating eye, on T:25520 19:52 -!- hothraxxa has joined #hardfought 19:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 620 points, T:1705, killed by a purple worm 19:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law), 777 points, T:1776, killed by a hobbit 20:00 {Demo}: next time you see shop prices by walking over them, use autounlock, or Death talks to you in CAPITAL LETTERS, think of how the Model T was only the first mass produced car, nothing else :-p 20:03 jilles: that's entirely intentional. an uncursed scroll of genocide is designed to be an emergency item. usually, you don't want to read it but it can save your ass. and of course, the blessed scroll is too powerful in vanilla :) 20:03 bhaak: can we do something about there being both pick_lock and picklock functions, each of which serves a different purpose, plzthx :D 20:05 aosdict: like having picklock() and picklock2()? :-) 20:05 false, there is no picklock2 20:05 lock_pick() 20:05 ? 20:06 pock_lick() ? 20:06 hackedhead: grep for that finds only a comment which implied there was _once_ some sort of lock_pick 20:06 .-. 20:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:748 20:06 _l_o_c_k___p_i_c_k_() 20:07 but we have use_pick_axe() and use_pick_axe2(), so it must be no problem to rename the existing methods to picklock() and picklock2() ;-) 20:07 * hackedhead dies laughing 20:08 * hackedhead wonders if The Dev Team practices continuous integration... 20:08 I often would like to have a page sized explanation how some methods were named 20:08 bhaak: "cuz" 20:09 we have shk_your() and Shk_your(). quite sensible. the latter is the former but starting with a capital letter 20:09 but then we shkname() and Shknam() with a similar relationship 20:09 bhaak: two hardest problems in programming are naming things, cache invalidation and off-by-one errors. 20:09 [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 62713 points, T:27063, killed by an invisible minotaur 20:10 bhaak: shk_your(money_maker)? 20:10 hackedhead: the devteam practices CI for pull requests made against them but, hilariously, not for their own commits IIRC 20:10 -!- nabru has joined #hardfought 20:10 don't get me started on teleds, safe_teleds, tele, and dotele 20:10 which sometimes results in someone opening a pull request and it getting blocked because the devteam's build is broken 20:10 * hackedhead nods and rolls eyes 20:12 is it a git problem? 20:12 aosdict: not entirely correct. the github commits run through travis. but they are somewhat behind the main repo, so the devteam receives the mail for a broken build at the same time you would see it but not shortly after the commit happened. 20:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) entered a shop, on T:1560 20:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:2153 20:21 the builds are public but I think they aren't announced anywhere: https://travis-ci.com/NetHack/NetHack/requests 20:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 393 points, T:1851, killed by a giant ant 20:22 but announcing them wouldn't be that useful anyway 20:24 [hdf-us] [evil] Wolfechu (Sam Hum Mal Law), 53844 points, T:16517, quit 20:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:60791 20:32 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) entered the Astral Plane, on T:60942 20:33 -!- nabru has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43 [hdf-us] [evil] Wolfechu (Pri Hob Mal Law), 735 points, T:1765, killed by a piranha 20:44 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Geewoody (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered a shop, on T:927 20:46 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:19203 20:48 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Cha) used a helm to turn lawful, on T:61113 20:50 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Ran Hum Fem Law), 1437466 points, T:61113, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/o/oh6/nethack/dumplog/1583102992.nh.html 20:50 <@riker> grats oh6 20:51 thanks @riker! 20:52 <@Dharma> Cheeky OA 20:55 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:5243 20:57 GG oh6 20:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] Geewoody (Kni Hum Mal Law), 602 points, T:2123, killed by a kitten, while praying 21:01 thanks Umbire! 21:02 didn't really feel like chancing the archon and pestilence to go for the chaotic altar 21:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:6202 21:21 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 21:22 -!- ruffni has joined #hardfought 21:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] oh6 (Sam Hum Mal Law), 334 points, T:1673, killed by a gas spore's explosion 21:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:1127 21:40 The gelatinous cube turns into a pony! 21:40 hahah 21:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 329 points, T:1030, killed by a gas spore's explosion 21:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:2888 21:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) entered a temple, on T:2912 21:44 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:2964 21:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) endured an absurd aquatic ceremony, and now wields Excalibur, on T:9199 21:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Sokoban, on T:9589 21:54 K2: what was funny about it 21:55 More of a "fuck u cube" thing I think 22:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] hikingpete (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered the Gnomish Mines, on T:390 22:02 [hdf-us] [nh370] hikingpete (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered a shop, on T:678 22:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 673 points, T:1574, killed by a rabid rat 22:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1428 points, T:1557, killed by a dwarf 22:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:7473 22:28 [hdf-us] [nh370] SuzuneTakada (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 4195 points, T:9184, killed by a winter wolf 22:35 [hdf-us] [xnh] arnibald (Sam Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:3866 22:36 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:13991 22:52 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed Geewoody's ghost, the former Bachelor, on T:15644 23:06 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Bar Inf Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:5228 23:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] hikingpete (Sam Hum Fem Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:3074 23:29 -!- Kontroller has joined #hardfought 23:30 -!- Kontroller1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] recuerdo (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:18444 23:32 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:20774 23:37 [hdf-us] [fh] tramptor (zor) (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 44188 points, T:1904, quit 23:39 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Dra Elf Mal Neu), 20 points, T:74, slipped while mounting a saddled baby green dragon 23:52 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Con Vam Mal Cha), 804 points, T:2194, exterminated by a giant ant, while dragging an iron ball 23:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] MHL (Hea Gno Fem Neu) entered Sokoban, on T:6252