00:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 2565 points, T:3018, killed by a werewolf
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00:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:53657
00:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:2452
00:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:53841
00:47 <math> if i uncurse it i bought it right?
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01:02 <Umbire> Uh
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01:03 <Umbire> I don't think shopkeepers give you any grief for uncursing their wares?
01:03 <Umbire> Odds are if you uncurse it you were buying anyway
01:03 <Umbire> Either that or you picked up a loadstone
01:03 <Umbire> @math
01:04 <math> smoky potion my pet wont pickup
01:04 <math> (or stand on)
01:05 <math> to train a pet, when do i have to throw it food? immediately after it drops an item outside the store?
01:05 <math> or carries it out?
01:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:54271
01:06 <math> yeah but did he kill death
01:06 <math> i did ... once.
01:08 <Umbire> I think just throwing it treats in general raises apport
01:08 <Umbire> But if you're training it to steal items then yeah
01:09 <Umbire> wait until it drops the item in the appropriate square
01:09 <math> yeah what, immediately as it drops it, next turn? sometimes i run out of the store with pet trailing nad it drops it out of sight.
01:09 <Umbire> I usually wait for it to drop it on the square in front of the door
01:09 <math> cant time to feed right exact time.
01:09 <math> he never drops it there, he walks out for 0-15 turns before he drops it
01:09 <math> i lead him out so he doesnt wander back in and drop
01:09 <math> often out of sight. 
01:10 <Umbire> which is why you stand in front of the door on the other side
01:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) averted death, on T:54309
01:10 <Umbire> maybe a square or two away, but it's usually not that strict
01:10 <math> how much $ do shks have
01:11 <math> (i need a bag or box... damn this is grindy)
01:11 <Umbire> couple thousand
01:11 <Umbire> it usually doesn't take that long
01:11 <Umbire> it technically doesn't have to be dropped outside the store either, but I think waiting until it's on a non-shop tile just makes it easier somehow
01:12 <math> want to buy the two c'd !smoky and then some other crap !'s, #dip them in { to water then bless the pile, then dip the 2c'd!smoky, then dip the resulting 4u'c!smoky's
01:12 <Umbire> giving a pet a treat after it drops an item makes it more likely to pick them up in general, shop or no
01:12 <math> already got $2100 off this shk. slow going selling a $125 !
01:12 <Umbire> well do you have any remove curse scrolls or the spell?
01:12 <Umbire> what's your role?
01:13 <math> Ranger, and im super new. slow game (3400 turns and ive wasted most of them waiting for my d to pickup !'s)
01:13 <math> new as in ihave nothing. DLV 3, Xp 1/0 :)
01:13 <math> trying for a prot dive, if I can get a wish out of these !smokys too
01:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Pestilence (5 times), on T:54343
01:14 <Umbire> ah
01:15 <math> prob not the pro player's plan but it's worked for me many times. i've asc'd 5 times in the last 15 years ;)
01:15 <Umbire> it can be done with anyone but it's usually easier starting with a role that already has tons of money or a means of acquiring it
01:15 <math> (with big hiatii from playing for 3-5 years a stretch)
01:15 <Umbire> oh then you already know that :B
01:16 <math> yeah if i can get a container, i can get past this 'pet only picks up $1 at a time' new nh37 thing
01:16 <Umbire> ...they've always done that
01:16 <Umbire> lmao
01:16 <math> used to pile up a buncha larger and larger cash, have pet steal the whole pile, walk back in drop it for credit, get pet to steal again, etc
01:16 <math> naw, they used to pickup the whole pile in 3.4
01:16 <math> maybe not 3.6
01:16 <math> my last asc was 3.4
01:16 <Umbire> they've had that changed for a long while IIRC
01:17 <math> ive not played in a long while :)
01:17 <Umbire> cats and dogs can only pick up a piece of gold at a time
01:17 <Umbire> because no hands
01:17 <math> oh NOW the game gets realistic I SEE
01:17 <math> ;P
01:17 <Umbire> you sure you were playing the right game? :B
01:17 <Umbire> and that's just the rationale I assume for it
01:17 <math> unless it was DF?! XD
01:17 <Umbire> ponies can't pick up more than one piece either
01:18 <math> wait dont tell me ponies dont have hands either now
01:18 <math> 'sudden realism'
01:18 <Umbire> they never had hands lmao
01:18 <math> lol
01:18 <Umbire> usually they just pick up stuff in their mouths, is my guess
01:18 <math> hey, prehensile tails?!
01:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 3621224 points, T:54383, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/s/sluggoman/nethack/dumplog/1577909716.nh.html
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01:24 <math> so on credit you get even less $ eh
01:24 <Umbire_> No
01:24 <Umbire_> Also I missed a few things so gimme a sec
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01:25 <math> he was paying me $125, now he's offering $112 cred
01:25 <Umbire> Alright so you've run through the shopkeeper's physical gold
01:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] arc19a (dragonspeaker) (Arc Hum Fem Law), 470 points, T:1405, killed by a little dog
01:25 <Umbire> Iunno if that has anything to do with the change in sell price
01:25 <Umbire> But yeah
01:25 <math> its consistent, $112 credit.
01:26 <Umbire> Might be a credit thing then, I guess
01:26 <Umbire> Wouldn't know
01:26 <Umbire> Oh boy, hoping he at least curse-tested that first
01:26 <Umbire> Though that's technically worse
01:27 <math> what is
01:27 <math> to change to lawful? I remember during an asc i changed align on purpose
01:27 <math> cant remember why now though
01:27 <Umbire> Speed?
01:27 <math> im super rusty, forgot all the tricks
01:27 <math> pissed off my god on purpose some reason.
01:28 <Umbire> Anyway I mean finding a noncursed hooa and not realizing until you've put it on
01:51 <math> D - a potion called water named b'd.  
01:51 <math> picked that up.. oh i guess it stacked with my other b'd
01:51 <math> so now I have 2, yay.
01:52 <math> Always Name Your Blessed Stuff So It Stacks and IDs?
01:56 <Umbire> hey, if it works
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02:01 <math> ha so uh
02:02 <math> if I quaff a smoky and it's confusion... if I get a wish will it mess up?
02:04 <math> ah it was healing and no wish in 4x smoky :((((((((((
02:04 <math> screw that, bedtime! ;P
02:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] arc20a (dragonspeaker) (Arc Hum Fem Law), 645 points, T:841, killed by a rothe
02:10 <Umbire> @math: lol
02:10 <Umbire> it doesn't matter what the potion actually is, although you obviously want a beneficial one so you don't fuck yourself quaffing it
02:11 <Umbire> though at the same time if it's extra/full healing that can actually be *more* inconvient
02:11 <Umbire> see, if you get the djinn spawn, the potion's used up without you actually quaffing it
02:12 <Umbire> nice when you're downing potions in a secluded space, not so much when you need that smoky potion of full healing
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03:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] malacoda (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 368 points, T:1249, killed by a small mimic, while fainted from lack of food
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04:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] NatsumeLuckyuro (Ass Hum Fem Law), 4949 points, T:3203, killed by a monster (black unicorn)
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05:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Sam Hum Mal Law), 331921 points, T:30798, killed by a lightning bolt
06:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) had Vorpal Blade bestowed upon him by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:35162
06:08 <bhaak> K2: spork's and unnethack's Gehennom are not the same. spork has mostly the lava caverns on where 3.4.3 would have had mazes and unnethack has mostly the heck^2 levels plus the lava caverns for the rest of the filler elvels.
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06:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Sam Hum Mal Law), 60 points, T:127, killed by a water moccasin
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06:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Asmodeus, on T:37710
06:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:37870
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07:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] hilliance (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:19960
07:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Baalzebub, on T:38521
07:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1232767 points, T:67852, killed by a touch of death
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08:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) wished for "blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:11380
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08:42 <klintos> @K2 yay my ouch bug was fixed :) https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/issues/277
08:43 <K2> yup :)
08:43 <K2> server is already live with that fix
08:43 <klintos> awesome
08:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Val Hum Fem Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:25141
09:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 helm of brilliance", on T:29290
09:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:29328
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09:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Stormhelm", on T:16620
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09:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:30589
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10:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Sam Hum Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2068
10:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Val Gia Fem Neu) made her first wish - "unlabeled very historic fixed corrodeproof fireproof rustproof blessed holy thoroughly platinum yendorian express card named i left home without it and now i need it", on T:18070
10:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Val Gia Fem Neu) killed the Master of Thieves, on T:18072
10:39 <hothraxxa> k2: again, i'm a murderer for killing a hostile :(
10:41 <rld> <@rikersan> maybe because you killed a quest leader?
10:41 <stennowork> did you kill MoT before it woke up?
10:41 <rld> <@rikersan> and since you're not a tou it doesnt clear that?
10:41 <stennowork> assuming MoT is generated asleep anyway
10:41 <aosdict|work> that shouldn't matter
10:42 <stennowork> i know that i am murderer when i kill HPOM before it wakes up
10:42 <stennowork> or rather before she officially gets angry by going into her sanctum
10:42 <hothraxxa> hm. i just whacked him and vorpie took his head off
10:42 <hothraxxa> so stenno has a point
10:43 <stennowork> well that should be a bug as quest nemeses should be generated hostile in any case?
10:43 <stennowork> i mean HPOM generates as peaceful
10:43 <hothraxxa> the colour text implies he's hostile but if he's meditating then i guess he's not hostile
10:43 <stennowork> sounds like a bug
10:43 <stennowork> he should be hostile while meditating
10:44 <stennowork> the quintessential 'passive-aggressive'-ness
10:44 <hothraxxa> he was meditating, i checked with my stehoscope
10:44 <stennowork> how did you even find that one as valk
10:44 <aosdict|work> wish for pyec
10:44 <stennowork> ooh
10:44 <stennowork> some evilhack silliness
10:44 <hothraxxa> evilhack. you wish for a quest artifact and you have a good ahcnce the owner comes with it
10:44 <stennowork> anyway its a bug
10:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Sam Hum Mal Law) wished for "Holy moonlight sword", on T:3068
10:45 <aosdict|work> hothraxxa: This is just the game of you one-shotting uniques, isn't it?
10:45 <hothraxxa> heh. the other two were wizmode tests
10:45 <stennowork> was beheading chance increased in EH?
10:45 <stennowork> vorpy beheading 
10:45 <hothraxxa> no i just got lucky
10:45 <stennowork> gotcha
10:46 <hothraxxa> it's just a minor nuisance. i have to fix my luck. the esp doesn't matter since the pyec conveys that. i'll eat a floating eye when i get one
10:48 <K2> :)
10:53 <hothraxxa> dammit i forget which level has my unicorn
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11:09 <hothraxxa> k2: You start digging downward.  The pipes break!  Water spurts out!
11:09 <hothraxxa> but there's still a fountain here
11:10 <hothraxxa> second dig gives me shallow pools as expected
11:10 <aosdict|work> that sounds like you dug on a sink, not a fountain
11:10 <hothraxxa> d'oh
11:10 <hothraxxa> i did
11:10 <hothraxxa> never mind
11:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:35398
11:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] zoya (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 297 points, T:763, killed by a small mimic
11:21 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Hea Gno Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Hermes, on T:53165
11:24 <stennowork> don't we have object lookup in some variants like in dcss?
11:25 <rld> <@Tone> Pretty sure fiqhack has that
11:27 <aosdict|work> xnethack (and splice has it from xnethack)
11:27 <stennowork> neat
11:27 <aosdict|work> I think slex might also have a very unreliable implementation
11:27 <stennowork> nodehack can do it too
11:27 <stennowork> assuming you write a proper level abstraction first
11:27 <stennowork> maybe nodehack is still too basic to be uesd
11:32 <rld> <@ultlang> why is everyone a bot
11:34 <rebatela> i'm not a bot
11:34 <hothraxxa> prove it
11:34 <rebatela> watch me play. a bot is probably better
11:34 <rebatela> i remember bots playing 3.43 on nao actually 
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11:35 <stennowork> i am a bot but i appear quasi-sentinent
11:35 <stennowork> thanks to some very smart markov chains
11:35 <stennowork> sentient*
11:36 <rld> <@ultlang> :+1:
11:36 <hothraxxa> ohhh you're good. self-correcting
11:37 <stennowork> well but i still make typos in the first place
11:37 <hothraxxa> another trick
11:37 <K2> I am a meat popsicle
11:38 <paxed> yum
11:38 <K2> \o/
11:38 <hothraxxa> i know i've said this before but i love that movie
11:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Hea Gno Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (class h), on T:54424
11:38 <stennowork> like this? https://img01.lachschon.de/images/164283_UMett_1.jpg
11:38 <K2> MULTIPASS
11:38 <klintos> leeloo
11:39 <stennowork> you assume i watched the 5th element
11:39 <K2> of course
11:39 <K2> hasnt everybody?
11:39 <stennowork> well i probably watched it at some point but can't really remember
11:39 <klintos> chris tucker the young 
11:39 <stennowork> its with franka potente who is a german actress
11:40 <stennowork> oh damn milla jovovich
11:40 * stennowork hides
11:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:36296
11:40 <hothraxxa> you had me wondering
11:40 <K2> chris tucker was hilarious in that film
11:40 <stennowork> milla jovovich was awesome in the first resident evil <3
11:42 <stennowork> https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNDQ0MWI3MmEtMzM0OC00Y2ViLWE4MDItMzNhNmY1ZTdjMWE2XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTQxNzMzNDI@._V1_.jpg
11:42 <stennowork> not the first one but still
11:46 <stennowork> from the first part https://www.1zoom.me/big2/51/104033-spider280578.jpg
11:59 <rld> <@Tone> She did some great vocals on a Puscifer track too
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12:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 8882 points, T:7107, killed by a tengu
12:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 0 points, T:5, zapped himself with a wand
12:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Bar Gia Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed fixed +5 dragonhide gauntlets of protection", on T:28
12:07 <K2> LOL
12:08 <rld> <@rikersan> did you get the 5?
12:08 <aosdict|work> O_O
12:08 <K2> YES I DID
12:08 <K2> \o/
12:08 <rld> <@rikersan> yep
12:08 <aosdict|work> there goes the game
12:08 <rld> <@rikersan> godspeed
12:08 <K2> starting the game with -10 ac and mc3
12:09 <K2> will be dead in 100 turns
12:09 <rld> <@rikersan> is zombification affected by MC?
12:09 <K2> yup
12:09 <K2> becoming ill rather
12:10 <K2> thank you water demon
12:10 <K2> you are my new best friend
12:10 <aosdict|work> oh I assumed a WoW
12:11 <aosdict|work> so is fountain quaffing a better evilhack strategy than in vanilla because you can wish for a more powerful single item?
12:12 <K2> hah no
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12:12 <K2> because there's a 75% chance you'll get the owner
12:13 <K2> and they wont be the same level as you
12:13 <{Demo}1> my pet stole my wow and wished for tripe rations :(
12:13 <K2> lol
12:14 <K2> !who
12:14 <aosdict|work> so your wish for the gauntlets could have arrived with an owner?
12:14 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] dbanethacker [evil] Bartlem [nh370] samiam [nh370] klintos [nh370] malor [dnh] | [hdf-eu] Merlek [nh370] | [hdf-au] No current players
12:14 <K2> aosdict no, only wishing for artifacts
12:14 <aosdict|work> Yeah, so that's what I meant.
12:14 <K2> i see
12:14 <aosdict|work> Assuming you're not going to artiwish, a single early wish in evilhack is still a lot more powerful than vanilla, right?
12:14 <K2> potentially it can be
12:15 <rld> <@rikersan> dragonhide cloak of MR and decay?
12:15 <K2> no
12:15 <rld> <@rikersan> or are magical items exempt
12:15 <K2> you cant wish for obj properties on already magical items
12:15 <K2> nor DSM
12:15 <aosdict|work> but you can get dragonhide
12:15 <K2> yup
12:15 <aosdict|work> for an early wish that's basically winning the early game
12:15 <K2> hah no
12:16 <K2> you havent played enough evilhack to know
12:16 <rld> <@rikersan> what's dragonbane get you as an enemy?
12:16 <K2> a knight i think
12:18 <K2> getting dragonhide <insert armor here> != winning the early game. not even by a long shot
12:19 <K2> the mc3 is a lot more valuable actually
12:19 <aosdict|work> ok but as you have demonstrated you can get both with one wish
12:19 <K2> yay
12:19 <K2> if this were vanilla, yeah that would prob be OP
12:19 <K2> this isnt vanilla
12:19 <aosdict|work> so an early wish is very powerful as it can get you what, 11 AC? plus MC3
12:20 <K2> and?
12:20 <K2> whats your point
12:20 <aosdict|work> I guess in vanilla you can get 9 AC plus MR or reflection
12:21 <{Demo}1> 11 AC +MC3 isn't gonna save u from the hell that is evilhack
12:21 <K2> {Demo}1 he doesnt know
12:21 <K2> he hasnt played it enough
12:21 <{Demo}1> might make surviving the early game less  luck based
12:21 <{Demo}1> surviving evilhack early game = play until you get lucky enough to make it through
12:22 <K2> heh its not all luck, unless you just try to power through
12:22 <{Demo}1> it's luck if u don't have the needed skill
12:23 <{Demo}1> and patience >_<
12:23 <{Demo}1> I'm not a patient player
12:23 <{Demo}1> I wanna ascend and I wanna ascend now
12:23 <rebatela> i love finding dragonhide in eh 
12:23 <K2> heh
12:23 <rebatela> but hell yeah mc3 
12:23 <{Demo}1> me too it's like a lootbox
12:24 <rebatela> right?
12:24 <K2> i could still go the the mines and encounter a gnome with a wand of death 1st level
12:24 <K2> ^ vanilla
12:24 <rebatela> oh lots of things can happen 
12:24 <{Demo}1> yeah but if u were tariru ud live
12:24 <rebatela> haha
12:24 <{Demo}1> some matrix style death ray dodges
12:25 <K2> trinity!
12:25 <K2> <bends over backwards while still on two feet>
12:25 <K2> i heard a fourth matrix movie is being made
12:26 <{Demo}1> I guess I'll unlock another purple worm name
12:26 <rld> <@Tone> Does evilhack have a fix for earlygame monsters using offensive wands?
12:26 <K2> a fix?
12:26 <{Demo}1> no but xnh might?
12:27 <rld> <@Tone> I mean to ask if it's different
12:27 <K2> no
12:27 <K2> there is no easy mode
12:27 <rld> <@Tone> I guess I phrased it as a fix because your message made it sound like a flaw
12:27 <K2> ah
12:27 <K2> no not a flaw. just saying that could still happen
12:27 <{Demo}1> actually there is easy mode
12:28 <{Demo}1> Wizard mode :P
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12:29 <aosdict|work> afaik only the wands balance patch affects monsters using offensive wands
12:31 <{Demo}1> wand destruction patch actually does something "good", lol
12:31 <{Demo}1> I kinda like the wand destruction patch
12:32 <K2> xnethack has a patch in place that prevents out of depth monsters from spawning where they shouldnt
12:32 <K2> such as the dreaded minesflayer
12:32 <{Demo}1> hey k2, I found an evilhack bug. I moved off of the starting square and the square I moved to didn't have a high altar to my god or the amulet of yendor... what gives?
12:33 <K2> heheh
12:33 <{Demo}1> gonna splat my elf ranger
12:33 <{Demo}1> that got the nice gear
12:38 <jonadab> K2: Were you there for the NH4 bug that made minesflayers overwhelmingly more common than in vanilla (as in, you could see multiple minesflayers per game, several games in a row)?
12:38 <K2> no i didnt experience that one
12:38 <K2> shame
12:38 <aosdict|work> K2: Minesflayers can't generate anyway because they're not in the h class anymore.
12:38 <jonadab> It happened as a result of a misunderstanding of how some code worked when refactoring something as part of multi-rng.
12:39 <{Demo}1> one day evilhack won't be so hard for me to ascend a game of
12:39 <jonadab> The code in question is _opaque_.
12:39 <aosdict|work> You'll note that the general mkclass fix is a pull request and moving mlets around isn't :)
12:39 <K2> jonadab :)
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12:39 <K2> aosdict I noticed that :)
12:40 <K2> {Demo}1 you should give it another go. current version is in a much better spot than when you last played
12:40 <K2> astral splat right?
12:40 <jonadab> Evil Patch Idea:  every once in a while (say, one in ten thousand chance), when generating a monster, difficulty level is completely ignored.
12:41 <K2> a level 56 newt
12:41 <{Demo}1> it's too late
12:41 <{Demo}1> I walked down a mines stairs
12:41 <{Demo}1> and I'm next to a mastodon
12:41 <aosdict|work> jonadab: Still will be less common than shriekers summoning a purple worm.
12:41 <jonadab> Also, EPI: monsters that don't normally generate in groups, still have a small percentage chance to generate in a group.
12:42 <{Demo}1> oh cool it isn't M2_STALK
12:42 <K2> mkclass fix would be good for vanilla
12:42 <jonadab> aosdict|work: You sure?  What percentage of monsters are shriekers?
12:42 <K2> imo
12:42 <{Demo}1> looks like no minetown for me
12:42 <{Demo}1> rip this game
12:42 <aosdict|work> bhaak, any more discussion on the mkclass fix PR?
12:42 <jonadab> K2: But what's good for vanilla isn't necessarily good for EvilHack?
12:43 <aosdict|work> that's one of the first ones
12:43 <K2> jonadab correct
12:44 <K2> having said that, if mkclass fix ever did make it into vanilla and evilhack finally goes to 3.7, i'd probably not mess with it
12:44 <jonadab> aosdict|work: Be advised, not everyone thinks minesflayers are a bug.  And some who think it may have originally been a bug, consider it a preservable feature now.  I don't know how the dev team specifically feel about this, though; I'm talking about the player community.
12:44 <{Demo}1> that's stupid it's clearly a bug
12:45 <jonadab> Nothing at all is clear about that section of code, tbh.
12:45 <aosdict|work> jonadab: This is the issue with the fallacy of "if the devteam goes a sufficient amount of time without addressing it, it must be intended."
12:45 <jonadab> aosdict|work: I don't think that's always true.
12:46 <jonadab> But I do think sometimes there's a bug that players develop strategy around to the point where it should be considered a feature.  For instance, pets attacking peaceful monsters.
12:46 <jonadab> (NH4 fixes that one; I'm not entirely comfortable with this, but have not attempted to "unfix" it in Fourk, because the monster AI scares me.)
12:47 <K2> i have fond memories of having my ass handed to me by a blood pudding
12:48 <aosdict|work> rebase fiqhack onto nh4. then merge nh4 into fourk
12:48 <aosdict|work> isn't that the plan?
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12:53 <stenno> nani
12:54 <jonadab> aosdict|work: FIQHack is already based on NH4.
12:54 <stenno> minesflayer are not a bug
12:54 <jonadab> At one point I did want to rebase Fourk onto FIQHack.
12:54 <stenno> it was a conscious decision but a really really terrible one
12:54 <jonadab> But not until after I get the current bleeding-edge branch to save stable.
12:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Scorpius, on T:39340
12:54 <stenno> i mean the code itself is very explicit imo
12:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:39347
12:54 <jonadab> And _ideally_ not until FIQHack has xhity merge done.  Though now I'm not sure that will ever happen.
12:55 <jonadab> stenno: The code itself is very *confusing*, and the comment admits of more than one possible interpretation.
12:55 <stenno> i more assume that mkclass was specifically written for the quest levels, and afterwards added to the .des files
12:55 <jonadab> That's very possible.
12:56 <stenno> jonadab: they just tweaked mkclass in vanilla (just? like a few months ago), and that further shows the intent of the code
12:56 <jonadab> Or, the ability to have it in .des files may have been there for quest .des files, then got used elsewhere.
12:56 <stenno> or that
12:56 <jonadab> Oh, did they?  Ok.
12:56 <jonadab> That was probably after I had my look at it.
12:57 <stenno> yeah, they simplified the algorithm, but accidentally made minesflayers even more likely
12:57 <jonadab> I am almost sure that sort of thing happens.  e.g., covetous behavior was almost certainly originally for Rodney, and then got used for other monsters because someone looked at the list of flags and went, "Yeah, he should totally steal the amulet from you if he can".
12:57 <stenno> yep
12:58 <jonadab> So now we have all these demon lords that are annoying mostly because they keep flitting away to the up stairs to heal.
12:59 <stenno> i mean the idea of DRY is very good, its just - the NH code is so convoluted and tightly coupled already that you really have to think a long time about the implications of using existing functions
12:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1064 points, T:2129, killed by a rothe
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13:01 <stenno> tomorrow morning is part 2 of my job interview, wish me luck
13:01 <K2> luck
13:01 <stenno> or calmness, rather
13:01 <stenno> thanks :)
13:01 <K2> !booze stenno
13:01 * Beholder tosses stenno a barrel of booze, conjured by NotTheOracle\dnt at 478 Kelvin.
13:01 <K2> that'll calm ya
13:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 39 points, T:177, killed by a goblin
13:02 <stenno> 200 degree celsius
13:02 <K2> let it sit for a bit
13:02 <stenno> conjured in gehennom, using lava as the equivalent exchange
13:02 <stenno> fair enough
13:05 <stenno> hm i guess 'conjuring' implies without equivalent exchange
13:05 <jonadab> "Here, drink this glass of bubbling lava.  It'll clear all the phlegm out of your throat!"
13:05 <jonadab> Most extreme cold remedy.
13:11 <aosdict|work> stenno: was the mkclass edit making minesflayers more likely reverted, or is it still there?
13:11 <stenno> not sure
13:11 <stenno> i don't really remember when the commit was
13:11 <stenno> it must have been a few months ago
13:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 2010 points, T:2074, killed by a mugger
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13:18 <stenno> aosdict|work: here is the commit https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/commit/0fe6a731dff521a7dd1c1a9f3c36d5438d24c22e
13:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 381 points, T:671, killed by a copper arrow
13:26 <aosdict|work> ok yeah so that didn't really take anything of a stance on OOD monsters
13:26 <aosdict|work> not that it was supposed to or anything
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13:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Bar Gia Mal Cha) rejected atheism by offering a gnome corpse on an altar of Set, on T:3952
13:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:1865
13:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) bribed Asmodeus with 368 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:42640
13:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:42684
13:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) was given Magicbane, on T:2180
13:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Bar Gia Mal Cha) had a helmet entrusted to him by Set, on T:4131
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13:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) was given the Silence Glaive, on T:2729
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13:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 21329 points, T:1066, killed by a gnome lord
13:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1958 points, T:171, quit
13:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) genocided disenchanter, on T:40367
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14:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 230 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:43929
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14:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Bar Gia Mal Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:5703
14:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed spellbook of magic mapping", on T:44850
14:23 <amateurhour> damn
14:24 <amateurhour> guess which hero forgot to equip the amulet versus poison
14:24 <K2> :/
14:24 <a_boudelia> always happens lol
14:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] Demo (Sam Hum Fem Law), 31679 points, T:9451, killed by a fire elemental
14:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] Demo (Fla Elf Fem Law), 410 points, T:519, killed by a falling rock
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14:47 <rebatela> scrollback k2: nice early fountain wish! 
14:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Ran Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:63317
14:49 <rebatela> i dip all those early fountains, but it's kind of risky doing it on T:5...
14:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Ran Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:63318
14:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:4946
14:53 <K2> so there's a woolly mammoth 2 spaces from the stairs at the bottom of the mines
14:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] samiam (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:40305
14:53 <K2> will come back another time
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14:56 <K2> wonder if its a chameleon 
14:57 <Umbire> The immediate punish, wew
14:57 <Umbire> Also what about a 'meleon?
14:59 <K2> the woolly mammoth at the bottom of the mines
14:59 <K2> its way too high a level to be there normally
15:01 <jonadab> Could also be the result of a polytrap.
15:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:44072
15:04 <Umbire> Polytrap or chameleon
15:04 <Umbire> It's always one of those two
15:04 <Umbire> also hi K2
15:04 <K2> true
15:04 <K2> hi Umbire
15:04 <aosdict|work> if you fixed ood monster generation this wouldn't happen ;)
15:05 <Umbire> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/The_Iron_Spoon_of_Liberation
15:05 <Umbire> I know it's not EvilHack but I'd like someone to look at this page and tweak it if possible, esp. for accuracy
15:05 <K2> its not broken :)
15:05 <K2> ^ aosdict
15:06 <Umbire> at least no more so than the usual wacky mines generation
15:06 <K2> @rikersan
15:06 <aosdict|work> why is it specifically the _iron_ spoon of liberation?
15:06 <Umbire> because that's what the redlink I followed was
15:07 <aosdict|work> haven't they heard of pewter or other things like that?
15:07 <Umbire> o
15:07 <Umbire> is joak
15:07 <K2> the iron spoon of liberation and excellence
15:07 <aosdict|work> Is it derived from the Iron Ball of Liberation?
15:08 <K2> yes
15:09 <K2> the plastic spork of liberation
15:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Hea Gno Fem Neu) killed Medusa, on T:60450
15:10 <K2> ah man this makes me want to make a new artifact and named it <insert name here> of excellence
15:14 <jonadab> The Mantle of Excellence.  An artifact leather armor that grants +5 to-hit bonus.
15:15 <K2> and adds +5 to charisma
15:15 <jonadab> Ah, yes, and that.
15:15 <K2> or maybe just max charisma?
15:15 <jonadab> Or adds its enchantment to charisma.
15:16 <K2> even better
15:19 <amateurhour> it makes me sad that d&d called a magical item cloak of the manta ray
15:19 <amateurhour> and not mantle of the manta ray
15:19 <Umbire> the manta's mantle
15:20 <Umbire> K2: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Lifestealer
15:20 <Umbire> some bare bones for you (or anyone else really) to expand on
15:22 <K2> cool
15:22 <K2> its also always generated cursed fyi
15:22 <rld> <@rikersan> umbire did you take that from the dnh arti wiki page
15:23 <rld> <@rikersan> if so then yeah it should be fine I updated that semi recently
15:23 <Umbire> if you mean the Iron Spoon then yeah
15:23 <rld> <@rikersan> also its probably not worth making new pages for any other dnh artis simply because theres so many
15:23 <rld> <@rikersan> even the QAs IMO
15:23 <Umbire> There's general smaller details I'm bound to have missed though
15:23 <Umbire> baw
15:24 <rld> <@rikersan> also it's worth noting dnh doesnt really do wishing purposes
15:24 <rld> <@rikersan> QAs and racial artis are all nowish
15:24 <Umbire> okay okay, I'll try and focus on fleshing out vanilla pages first if that helps
15:24 <Umbire> see, that's the sort of thing I expect you to help correct :B
15:24 <Umbire> bc I have no first hand experience with most variants
15:25 <rld> <@rikersan> minor issues: typo in applying, base dmg is 1d2 I think (for s/l) and the iron ball still exists
15:25 <rld> <@rikersan> it's just that now the quest leader gives you the iron ball when you accept the quest, and it's now the iron ball of levitation (probably worth noting that somewhere)
15:26 <hothraxxa> ...
15:26 <rld> <@rikersan> on mobile @ school can't edit right now
15:27 <Umbire> Yeah
15:27 <Umbire> Duly noted
15:27 <hothraxxa> i don't know rikersan, isn't intuitively obvious that an iron ball makes you float in the air?
15:27 <hothraxxa> mine sure do
15:27 <Umbire> For something like Lifestealer, I assume there's a contingency if it gets wished up before facing Vlad?
15:27 <K2> isnt that plural?
15:28 <rld> <@rikersan> well if you blow them up normally then they don't float
15:28 <Umbire> Or is it one of those "can't be wished" scenarios
15:28 <hothraxxa> hey, he's the one with only one ball
15:28 <rld> <@rikersan> you need to make sure to fill it with helium
15:28 <K2> Umbire if someone wishes for lifestealer, they wont get vlad as the owner
15:29 <K2> ya know, i havent really tested this out
15:29 <hothraxxa> ah, but what will vlad wield?
15:29 <Umbire> So he'll be generated with another applicable weapon?
15:29 <Umbire> ^
15:29 <K2> in reagrds to if you wish for lifestealer then go see vlad
15:29 <Umbire> That's the million-zorkmid question right now
15:29 <K2> lemme check
15:29 <K2> I *think* he's just weaponless
15:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:45772
15:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:45775
15:31 <K2> oh cool
15:31 <K2> if lifestealer already exists, he just has a regular two-handed sword
15:32 <K2> been so long since i added lifestealer, i forgot
15:32 <K2> sporkhack would be the same way
15:32 <Umbire> You 100% on that?
15:32 <Umbire> Just making sure before I add
15:33 <K2> yes i am in wizmode facing vlad right now
15:33 <Umbire> @Rikersan, Iron Spoon page is updated
15:33 <Umbire> Okey doke
15:33 <K2> Plaid the Impaler
15:33 <Umbire> And I assume Lifestealer remains Lifestealer when found in bones and not turned into a plain zweihander
15:34 <K2> hmm
15:34 <K2> i'm thinking no
15:34 <K2> lemme check
15:34 <hothraxxa> nobody showed up when i wished for lifestealer
15:34 <hothraxxa> ymmv
15:34 <K2> remember, its 75% chance
15:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] sickopsycho (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1452 points, T:3000, killed by a killer bee
15:35 <hothraxxa> yeah
15:35 <hothraxxa> also, vlad still drains you because vamp lord
15:35 <K2> yup
15:35 <K2> ok so... i am thinking of switching artifact chances back to how many exist
15:36 <hothraxxa> so lifestealer is window dressing really
15:36 <K2> but not until next version
15:36 <K2> and here's why
15:36 <hothraxxa> wait, how is it now? i thought you used vanilla
15:36 <K2> no
15:36 <K2> currently, you'll get every artifact wished for, but there's that 3 in 4 chance of getting the owner
15:37 <K2> and the owner is guaranteed to be high level
15:37 <hothraxxa> oh i didn't realize the owner thing negated the chance to not get your wish
15:37 <K2> but, you'll get every artifact wished for (except your own quest artifact)
15:37 <hothraxxa> hm
15:37 <K2> i can see how that could be exploited hard core
15:37 <Umbire> The catch being you'll also have to pry it from the owner's preferably-dead hands
15:38 <K2> right but
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15:38 <hothraxxa> wish for the eyes of the overworld, i dast ya
15:38 <K2> if you're high enough level, you could wish away and have a decent chance of taking down every threat
15:38 <K2> and get all the player monster gear that comes with it
15:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] me1 (dragonspeaker) (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 297 points, T:892, killed by a homunculus, while sleeping
15:38 <hothraxxa> i was only xl13 when i went for the pyec
15:38 <Umbire> which is why I think if you keep it that way, each subsequent wish should generate additional monsters regardless of if you pull the owner or not
15:39 <K2> i need to think on this
15:39 <Umbire> just for spitballing's sake
15:39 <hothraxxa> and the master thief has no armour, sill bugger
15:39 <hothraxxa> silly
15:39 <Umbire> yeah, this is gonna be a big ol' thonk
15:41 <K2> nothing in bones about turning lifestealer into something else
15:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] hilliance (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) destroyed Karnac's ghost, the former Priest, on T:25542
15:44 <Umbire> Right
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15:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Bar Gia Mal Cha) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by Set, on T:8374
15:49 <K2> oooh snap
15:50 <Umbire> nie
15:50 <Umbire> nice*
15:50 <hothraxxa> a giant with cleaver and gauntlets of power will do a little damage
15:51 <hothraxxa> eventually evilhack giants have to get gauntlets of protection though
15:51 <K2> giants can raise str and con up to 25 naturally
15:51 <hothraxxa> well you can try doing wihtout
15:51 <hothraxxa> yeah right
15:51 <hothraxxa> you can but really?
15:51 <K2> yes
15:51 <hothraxxa> can't eat giants
15:52 <K2> potions of gain ability
15:52 <hothraxxa> can't exercise with boulders
15:52 <K2> tins of spinach
15:52 <hothraxxa> true. you CAN it's just pretty hard
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15:52 <hothraxxa> you forgot royal jelly
15:52 <K2> sometimes you spawn with str or con at 20 or above
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15:53 <hothraxxa> i don't even know if it goes straight to 19 from 18, none of my giants have gotten that strong that i recall, but if i have to go 18/01-18/99 well...
15:54 <hothraxxa> i THINK i do. i think i had an 18/02 giant this one time
15:54 <hothraxxa> look i carry all these boulders everywhere. you should be boosting my strength every 600 turns, yeah
15:57 <K2> start up wizmode, roll a giant, wish for a bunch of blessed !oGA and watch what happens with your str
15:57 <K2> use a giant with str of 18 or less
15:58 <hothraxxa> or, i could just ask the developer
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15:59 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: slex doesn't have a "very unreliable" method of object lookup but a very reliable one, in fact I wrote a description for every single base item type and one for every single artifact :D
15:59 <K2> when 18/01 to 18/99, str goes up faster for giants than others
16:03 <hothraxxa> still took me 20 blessed potions to go from 18 to 25
16:04 <K2> good
16:05 <K2> getting to 25 str naturally shouldnt be easy
16:05 <hothraxxa> i'm not sure how low they can start, but i think i had one start at str 15
16:05 <K2> role dependent
16:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) wished for "blessed rustproof +2 gauntlets of power", on T:5691
16:06 <hothraxxa> i seriously considered cannibalism
16:06 <jonadab> Can giants be Tourists?  Tourists normally start with single-digit Str.
16:06 <K2> jonadab no they cant
16:06 <K2> just humans and hobbits
16:06 <jonadab> Ok.
16:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased +2 helm of brilliance", on T:5695
16:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fireproof +2 pair of speed boots", on T:5708
16:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Val Gia Fem Neu) had a conical hat entrusted to her by Odin, on T:20080
16:20 <hothraxxa> at least it's a cornuthaum
16:20 <Umbire> The Mighty Dunce Cap of Loki goes unused yet again :[
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16:21 <hothraxxa> i got a +5 leather dunce cap in one game
16:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) was given Magicbane, on T:30404
16:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:6931
16:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) was given their Quest, on T:30606
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16:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha), 9118 points, T:7416, killed by a leocrotta
16:30 <bouquet> !lastgame bouquet
16:30 <Beholder> bouquet: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/splicehack/dumplog/1578890942.splice.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/nethack/dumplog/1576989832.nh.html
16:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) killed the Dark One, on T:30860
16:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) was given Whisperfeet, on T:30936
16:32 <Umbire> couldn't shake the bastard, huh
16:34 -!- Umbire is now known as Umbire|showering
16:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh4] ARRGGGGgg (bbola) (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 43739 points, T:7053, killed by a leocrotta
16:40 * aosdict|work hopes that Umbire's pipes don't break causing water to spurt out
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16:46 <amateurhour> my pet ogre king is just derping around some iron bars, will he ever follow me again?
16:46 <amateurhour> I've thrown some tripe rations at him just in case that works
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16:46 <amateurhour> and blown a tin whistle
16:47 <amateurhour> maybe they smell the possible corpse behind it
16:47 <hothraxxa> if your pet can see you it thinks it's near you
16:47 <jonadab> amateurhour: Getting a pet to follow you in vanilla NetHack (or anything 3.x based really), works best if you A) keep the pet in line of sight at all times, B) don't move more than one tile per game turn, regardless of your speed; so if you are fast or very fast, you will need to rest some turns.
16:48 <jonadab> But yes, it'll lag several tiles behind sometimes, that's "normal".
16:48 <jonadab> Just don't go around a corner until it catches up.
16:48 <amateurhour> this is hf nh370, and it's really acting weird with these bars
16:48 <hothraxxa> all good advice but this is a problem in variants that have a wall of iron bars
16:48 <amateurhour> never seen this before, it's like it's caught in a loop of humping the bars
16:49 <{Demo}1> did it find a potion of booze?
16:49 <hothraxxa> oh in that case there's probably tripe behind the bars
16:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:49273
16:49 <hothraxxa> can you dig?
16:49 <{Demo}1> why dont monsters drink booze?
16:49 <jonadab> Are we talking just one tile of iron bars, or like an entire iron bars maze?
16:50 <amateurhour> like a cupboard that would have scroll of tele
16:50 <jonadab> {Demo}1: Because this isn't Dwarf Fortress.
16:50 <{Demo}1> dnh gives dwarves booze, but they never drink it
16:51 <amateurhour> guess I'll have to abandon him
16:51 <amateurhour> goodbye bubbles the ogre king :'(
16:52 <hothraxxa> dig i tell you
16:52 <{Demo}1> rip bubbles
16:52 <hothraxxa> wants something behind the bars
16:52 <amateurhour> I've not been to the mines yet, I'm on dlvl 4
16:52 <amateurhour> literally just started
16:52 <hothraxxa> how did you get a pet ogre king then?
16:52 <amateurhour> well then
16:53 <amateurhour> found a wand of poly on dlvl 1
16:53 <hothraxxa> then there's that solution
16:53 <jonadab> Can you polymorph bars?  Or is that only in variants?
16:53 <amateurhour> couldn't face life without bubbles
16:53 <hothraxxa> i never knew you could poly bars in any variant
16:54 <jonadab> I think you can in at least one?  Don't remember the details for certain, though, so I can't absolutely swear to it.
16:54 <rebatela> that's very cool if true
16:54 <jonadab> I might be thinking of some other furniture/feature.
16:54 <amateurhour> if I had charges left in the wand I could have perhaps polypiled the tripe/corpse away
16:54 <rebatela> I cast poly at everything 
16:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) became the Glory of Chardros, on T:31916
16:55 <amateurhour> assuming the cast passes through the bars
16:55 <{Demo}1> its in a hypothetical variant
16:55 <{Demo}1> in which, polymorphing bars is a thing
16:58 <aosdict|work> jonadab: Polying bars seems sort of broken.
16:59 <aosdict|work> The only dungeon features that can polymorph are sinks, via having a ring of polymorph dropped into them.
16:59 <jonadab> aosdict|work: Depends A) how common they are, and B) what you can poly them into.
16:59 <aosdict|work> How common they are is less important than if they're used on special levels to block off the hero
17:00 <jonadab> Now I *know* there are variants that let you destroy them with a wand of striking.
17:01 <jonadab> (Also, it's fairly rare for there not to be a way to just dig past.)
17:01 <jonadab> (Also, the implementation could always refuse to change the bars if their tile is marked non-diggable.)
17:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:45953
17:06 <bhaak> aosdict: no, no discussion about the mkclass sutff
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17:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:46619
17:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bartlem (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:46622
17:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Wiz Vam Mal Cha) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:32286
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17:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed greased bag of holding", on T:50036
17:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] woodstea23 (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:64343
17:37 -!- amateurhour has quit [Quit: sleep calls]
17:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:50042
17:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:50044
17:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] chromatic (Con Vam Fem Cha), 113 points, T:606, killed by a jackal, while fainted from lack of food
17:51 -!- aosdict|work has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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18:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] chromatic (Con Vam Fem Cha), 3389 points, T:2176, killed by a watch captain
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18:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) bribed Asmodeus with 49 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:52181
18:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 10786 points, T:5862, killed by a giant cockroach
19:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] JohnKeel (Pri Ith Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:56918
19:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] JohnKeel (Pri Ith Fem Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:57314
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19:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] JohnKeel (Pri Ith Fem Cha) averted death, on T:57464
19:13 <rld> <@John Keel> whoops
19:13 <rld> <@John Keel> turns out salamanders can drown you in lava
19:19 <Umbire|showering> Oh yeah, I was just discussing that while wiki editing the other day
19:19 <Umbire|showering> Right bastards they are :B
19:19 -!- Umbire|showering is now known as Umbire
19:20 <Umbire> Also regarding the functions called for eating acidic meat, what's the specific number of the lines that govern curing stoning and eating acidic corpses specifically?
19:21 <Umbire> i.e. what number lines are 'cprefx' and 'eatcorpse' in eat.c?
19:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:11219
19:31 <math> what's a shk on-cred buy price of 90's base price?
19:31 <Umbire> I think so?
19:31 <math> I was getting 112 for acid/oil on cred
19:32 <Umbire> "If the shopkeeper does not have enough gold to pay for something you are trying to sell (and which he wants to buy), he will offer "only" as much as he has. If the shopkeeper has no gold at all, he will offer credit, at 90% of the normal price."
19:32 <Umbire> So yeah, that's normal
19:32 -!- Xaleth has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:32 <Umbire> also did you see my earlier answer re: smoky potions?
19:32 <math> ah k so 100, so base price is... 200 or 300 :(
19:33 <math> actually no shirt, so just 200
19:34 <Umbire> 200zm smoky potion, right?
19:34 <Umbire> that seems fine, though worst case is it's polymorph
19:34 <math> no i id'd that and got 4 b'd and drank and got nothing for it
19:34 <Umbire> oh
19:34 <math> was heal
19:34 <Umbire> so extra healing then?
19:34 <math> (good for alc?)
19:35 <Umbire> yeah, that's a problem
19:35 <math> |  potion of healing called smoky (smoky)                                                                       |0/200 blind gainNrg invis monDet objD|
19:35 <math> oops ignore 2nd half of that
19:35 <Umbire> lol nah, seeing people's typenaming schemes are fun :B
19:35 <Umbire> like I said, you want a smoky potion that's beneficial but not TOO beneficial so that a djinn spawn could fuck you in a rare emergency
19:35 <math> 2nd half tho is me just cutnpasting a single line of term across the curses windows, so some stuff is cut, i mean
19:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:54501
19:36 <Umbire> regular healing is probably preferable to extra healing, but it's still alchemizable
19:36 <Umbire> so it's an issue, just not as much of one
19:36 <Umbire> weighing alchem v. wishes
19:36 <math> err how so
19:36 <math> isnt that good, so i can manufacture it
19:37 <Umbire> you can't alchemize healing
19:37 <Umbire> at least not consistently
19:37 <math> ah :(
19:37 <Umbire> you can alchemize extra healing with some reliability, but you may also want to alc non-diluted extra healing into full healing, which is the crux of the issue I originally alluded to
19:38 <Umbire> with healing you can't alc as easily, but you also don't have to worry so much about making extra healing potions
19:38 <Umbire> so you can probably save them safely for wishes, to overwrite my previous suggestion
19:38 <Umbire> since you'll eventually be at extra healing levels before long
19:38 <Umbire> of course, if healing potions are all you have in a pinch...
19:47 <Umbire> of course, I'm far from the most expert player here, if that wasn't already clear
19:47 <Umbire> so grains of salt :B
19:47 <math> no prob, and thanks
19:48 <aosdict> a shaker of salt, as jonadab would say
19:50 <math> what do shk's do if you go invis while in their store?
19:52 <rld> <@rikersan> block the exit
19:53 <rld> <@rikersan> probably best to avoid that, it's why I never put on possibly cursed magic cloaks (I dont want a cursed invis cloak thank)
19:53 <math> yeah.
19:54 <math> Sirius steps reluctantly over a kobold corpse.
19:54 <math> thought I named him asshat? oh that was a diff game. when I died.
19:54 <math> but if he stepped over a corpse that had an item with it, is it def the corpse that was cursed?
19:54 <math> (wait, corpses are cursed? guess I answered my own q)
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19:56 <AntiGulp> Monday
19:56 <math> guh... why am i still getting delays when mobs attack
19:56 <Umbire> 'lo
19:56 <math> animation delays? I turned sparkle off
19:57 <Umbire> also corpses shouldn't be cursed normally
19:57 <math> so it was the item
19:57 <Umbire> with the exception of bones, all corpses are generated uncursed
19:57 <Umbire> wrt bones, corpses that were in the dead player's inventory might be cursed like the rest of their items
19:58 <Umbire> or blessed if the player decided to bless them for whatever reason and they dodge the bones cursing
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19:59 <Umbire> as for delays, sure it's not a terminal/SSH thing?
19:59 <Umbire> iunno
19:59 <math> no, some animation thing is happening. maybe this is 3.7 thing, even with sparkle off
20:02 <math> oh yeah now I remember why move not fight... when blinded.
20:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] amelie (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:6253
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20:05 <math> lol hallu currencies
20:06 <math> 133 simoleons 200 cirbozoids 178 Flanian Pobble Beads 266 Triganic Pus 133 cirbozoids 200 Altarian Dollars 356 cubits
20:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] amelie (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a white dragon, on T:6859
20:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] amelie (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 5843 points, T:6871, zombified by a dwarf zombie
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20:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 23095 points, T:1113, killed by a gas spore's explosion
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20:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 27208 points, T:1219, killed by a water moccasin
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20:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) polymorphed her first object, on T:57951
20:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Thalys (Brd Hum Mal Neu), 36 points, T:64, killed by a sewer rat
21:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 26626 points, T:1243, killed by a large cat
21:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) destroyed amateurhour's ghost, the former Rambler, on T:1936
21:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 31903 points, T:2288, killed by a dwarf
21:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Hea Gno Fem Neu) polymorphed her first object, on T:64240
21:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Hea Gno Fem Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:64287
21:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Grandolar (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 2694 points, T:2508, killed by a giant rat, while sleeping
21:30 <klintos> ick, program in disorder
21:30 <rld> <@rikersan> oh really? fun, that's a vanilla bug
21:31 <rld> <@rikersan> what did you do?
21:31 <aosdict> and more importantly what was the impossible string
21:32 <K2> 1578607756 klintos: impossible com_pager: questtext[Hea][goal_alt] in quest.lua is not a lua table
21:32 <K2> 1578607756 klintos: impossible com_pager: questtext[common][goal_alt] in quest.lua is not a lua table
21:32 <K2> from 2 min ago
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21:33 <K2> klintos what action took place exactly?
21:33 <klintos> @K2 re-entered the quest boss level after beating him
21:33 <klintos> and after polymorphing him
21:33 <K2> ok thanks
21:33 <K2> which was it... beating him or polymorphing him?
21:34 <klintos> I didn't get Cyclops's death message.  Might have something to do with it.
21:34 <K2> oh i see... you poly'd him, them killed him
21:34 <K2> *then
21:34 <klintos> I polymorphed him, then killed him, then left the level, then returned.
21:34 <K2> ok
21:34 <rld> <@rikersan> sounds like it was a bad version of the "so you have entered my domain" or whatever
21:34 <rld> <@rikersan> where cyclops isn't dead or alive?
21:35 <Umbire> Quantum cyclops
21:35 <klintos> I tought you still got the death message even if you poly'd him.
21:35 <rld> <@rikersan> well, you apparently didn't
21:36 <qdesjardin2> !who
21:36 <Beholder> qdesjardin2: [hdf-us] hilliance [nh370] samiam [nh370] klintos [nh370] Karnac [nh370] Bliss56 [nh370] chromatic [un] Heliokopis [dnh] amelie [fh] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players
21:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 932 points, T:930, killed by a gnome king
21:39 <qdesjardin2> oh K2, in evilhack I noticed when you enrage peaceful monsters, they start to actively scavenge for items and use them 
21:40 <qdesjardin2> but otherwise they are just wandering around
21:40 <qdesjardin2> it may or may not be worth looking into, but as a player I found that strange
21:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] chromatic (Con Vam Fem Cha), 720 points, T:1029, killed by a leocrotta
21:43 <K2> thats normal
21:43 <qdesjardin2> ok
21:43 <K2> peacefuls dont go looking for items to scavenge unless they have a flag to find a specific thing
21:44 <Umbire> yeah, that's normally
21:44 <Umbire> they're just minding their own business usually
21:44 <qdesjardin2> oh, that's normal behaviour for vanilla too
21:44 <Umbire> dwarves pick up stuff while peaceful and digging because they're flagged to
21:45 <Umbire> yeah, unless you piss them off they have no reason to start looking for weapons
21:45 <K2> i should allow peacfuls to loot containers >:-)
21:45 <Umbire> though it'd be nice to have other peaceful monsters looking for stuff in the dungeon alongside you
21:45 <K2> *peacefuls
21:45 <Umbire> K2 you EPI machine you
21:45 <qdesjardin2> Umbire exactly
21:45 <qdesjardin2> helps make the dungeon feel more "alive:"
21:46 <K2> thats a valid observation
21:46 <K2> hmm
21:46 <rld> <@rikersan> I feel like every item on the floor would end up in peaceful minvents then
21:46 <aosdict> EPI machine of excellence
21:46 <K2> \o/
21:46 <Umbire> @rikersan: yeah, there's the rub
21:46 <aosdict> the #rub
21:47 <Umbire> for discussion's sake I was thinking they'd have specific flags akin to dwarves
21:47 <aosdict> M2_COLLECT?
21:47 <Umbire> but for specific items so you wouldn't get fucked as hard
21:48 <Umbire> like hobbits seeking out rings of invisibility or whatever, but actually doing it
21:48 <Umbire> cuz what are the odds that floor spawns one as opposed to literally anything else :B
21:48 <Umbire> most just a fun YANI to think about
21:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 192 points, T:665, killed by a large kobold
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21:51 <qdesjardin280> a counterpooint to the "peaceful monsters will just take everything" is that hostile monsters already do just that 
21:51 -!- qdesjardin2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:52 <qdesjardin280> unless you're worried more about having to kill peacefuls for their loot, there could be a #chat to trade
21:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 39540 points, T:4071, killed by a watchman, while fainted from lack of food
21:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 12505 points, T:502, killed by a fox, while frozen by a potion
21:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Ran Hum Mal Neu) had Giantslayer bestowed upon him by Venus, on T:64049
22:06 <qdesjardin280> drank a smoky potion of healing, and instead of healing me a wild djinni appeared
22:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 35014 points, T:1965, killed by a gnome queen
22:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] chromatic (Con Vam Fem Cha), 363 points, T:469, killed by a giant rat, while fainted from lack of food
22:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 7357 points, T:415, killed by a fox
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22:13 <Andrio> Ouch
22:14 <aosdict> bhaak: want me to throw the free fortune cookie patch into my next consolidation PR or are you already planning on doing it yourself?
22:26 <Umbire> qdesjardin280: yeah, I was talking to someone about just that in #nethack
22:26 <qdesjardin280> about what
22:26 <Umbire> smoky potions that can fuck you in emergencies
22:26 <Umbire> by spawning djinn
22:26 <qdesjardin280> aaaaaughhh
22:26 <Umbire> sorry for cursing you D:
22:27 <qdesjardin280> "You freed me!" (dies anyway)
22:27 <qdesjardin280> actually kinda funny
22:27 <Umbire> totally unrelated YANI: spawning a djinn that simply disappears will teleport you out of danger if applicable :B
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22:32 -!- qdesjardin280 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
22:32 <qdesjardin2> my PC keeps crashing and rebooting 
22:33 <qdesjardin2> I didn't see anything past the "djiini fucks you over potions of healing"
22:33 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) bribed Baalzebub with 113 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:59574
22:37 <Umbire> Right, so my browser just exploded
22:37 <Umbire> what I miss?
22:38 <qdesjardin2> pppft I had to restart my PC 
22:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:59651
22:38 <qdesjardin2> and your browser exploded 
22:38 <Umbire> and it's a Chromebook so
22:38 <Umbire> Chrome goes, whole thing goes :B
22:38 <qdesjardin2> sorry to hear that
22:38 <Umbire> thankfully didn't actually lose much
22:39 <Umbire> just means computer restarts for no good reason
22:39 <qdesjardin2> am streaming some FIQhack for the night, if you want to stop by to watch
22:39 <Umbire> Might do that, thanks for letting me know
22:40 <Umbire> killing time with aLTTP rando atm
22:41 <aosdict> you didn't miss anything
22:44 <Umbire> ah
22:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] DexSG (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 1675 points, T:3741, killed by a rothe
22:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the ghost of Amelie, the former Conjurer, on T:4236
22:49 <qdesjardin2> a double ghost level
22:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 38777 points, T:4353, killed by a large cat
22:52 <qdesjardin2> great it's probably a triple ghost level now
22:52 <qdesjardin2> fucking cat meow meow
22:53 <qdesjardin2> when a cat absorbs 15 magic missiles to its face and keeps on going, you know it's gone feral
22:54 <Umbire> yikes
22:54 <Umbire> no food to tame/pacify with? D:
22:54 <bug_sniper> !lastgame amelie
22:54 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/a/amelie/fiqhack/dumplog/2020-01-14%2003%3A50%3A50%2C%20Amelie-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha%2C%20died.txt
22:55 <Umbire> oh well mm dropped THAT guy quick enough
22:55 <Umbire> !lastgame Mirlington
22:55 <Beholder> Umbire: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/M/Mirlington/nethack/dumplog/1578972876.nh.html
23:00 <klintos> lol 
23:00 <klintos> magic missile TO THE FACE
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23:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] chromatic (Con Vam Fem Cha), 2327 points, T:2280, killed by a bat
23:06 -!- qdesjardin2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the ghost of Amelie, the former Thaumaturge, on T:1706
23:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) genocided nurses, on T:2836
23:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Amelie (amelie) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed horn of plenty", on T:2857
23:21 <rld> <@John Keel> horn of plenty? what do they do in whatever fh is?
23:21 <Umbire> wait, why geno nurses?
23:22 <Umbire> also the horn of plenty is a magical tool
23:22 <Umbire> apply it and you get a food/drink item
23:22 <rld> <@rikersan> I think he knows but that's kinda an awful wish unless you really need it, and maybe going for foodless?
23:22 <rld> <@rikersan> also he may have been hoping for cursed geno
23:22 <Umbire> aw, yeah
23:23 <Umbire> that'd make sense
23:23 <Umbire> iunno if FIQhack changes HOPs any
23:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] sickopsycho (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed rustproof +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:4040
23:24 <Umbire> hm, no strategy section for dealing with a genoscroll of unknown BUC yet
23:25 <qdesjardin3> oh
23:26 <qdesjardin3> I was starving so needed something
23:26 <qdesjardin3> luckily that magic lamp saved me
23:26 <qdesjardin3> (didn't have prayer)
23:26 <Umbire> oh coo
23:26 <rld> <@rikersan> no slow digestion ring?
23:26 <Umbire> now you never have to worry about food again basically
23:26 <qdesjardin3> doesn't do jack when you're verge of starving to death
23:26 <qdesjardin3> wizards in FIQhack do NOT have hungerless casting
23:26 <rld> <@rikersan> ah that makes sense, nevermind
23:27 <Umbire> let us know if the HoP produces something that'd be "unusual" for vanilla
23:27 <Umbire> for wiki's sake :B
23:27 <Umbire> may also just pop into the stream on top of that
23:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] chromatic (Con Vam Fem Cha), 589 points, T:690, killed by a fox, while fainted from lack of food
23:28 <Umbire> speaking of starving...
23:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] klintos (Hea Gno Fem Neu) had Dragonbane bestowed upon her by Hermes, on T:68129
23:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] chromatic (Con Vam Fem Cha), 318 points, T:674, killed by a hobbit, while fainted from lack of food
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23:38 <Umbire> and again with food problems!
23:38 <Umbire> poor bastard
23:40 <rld> <@rikersan> he's a vampire convict
23:40 <rld> <@rikersan> aka "I run out of nutrition in exactly 600 turns from the start of the game, ignoring food" along with "I can't get any meaningful nutrition from corpses"
23:45 <Umbire> oh well that'll do it
23:45 <Umbire> text is super bright so was tough to make out
23:46 <Umbire> highlighting didn't occur to my brain as a priority :B
23:46 <Umbire> also, would anyone object if I added a list of hallucinatory currency somewhere?
23:47 <Umbire> it'd mostly be flavor text ofc, so a small subsection on an existing page
23:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh370] math (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed for the first time, on T:7428
23:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:11092
23:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] chromatic (Con Vam Fem Cha), 1456 points, T:930, killed by a hill orc