00:01 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1906 points, T:3137, killed by a poisonous cloak 00:07 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 932 points, T:1390, killed by an iguana 00:09 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 141 points, T:376, killed by a hobbit 00:11 [hdf-us] [nh370] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) averted death, on T:50787 00:15 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 931 points, T:1474, killed by a gnome zombie 00:17 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 84 points, T:321, killed by a sewer rat 00:21 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 58 points, T:713, killed by a goblin 00:23 heya AntiGulp 00:23 hi! 00:23 Hello AntiGulp, Welcome to #hardfought 00:23 …hey beholder 00:24 I wasn't sure if this was bugworthy... are monsters supposed to be cooked when I kill them with a regular dagger or other non-arti weapon? 00:24 They shouldn’t be. Were you playing as a vampire? 00:25 ya 00:25 they're randomly cooked or charred due to stabbing. 00:25 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 223 points, T:703, killed by a hobbit 00:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "Blessed spellbook of object detection", on T:15896 00:25 would be handy as a meat eater, but alas I'm a vampire. 00:27 Huh, definitely shouldn’t happen. blaaah 00:27 well, I'll make an official report for you. I'll try to track it down too. 00:29 no idea how else to describe it. :P 00:30 Yup, just duplicated it. 00:33 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by Hermes, on T:16222 00:34 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "Spellbook of detect treasure", on T:16232 00:35 bouquet: Appears to only occur when the vampire feeds on the lifeblood and kills something, indicating that the problem is in the call to xkilled. Shouldn’t be too bad for me to fix. 00:38 gnite folks 00:39 Night! 00:44 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] tjw (Cav Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:53891 00:51 bouquet: Fixed. Thanks for telling me, that should fix an enormous number of bugs relating to randomly cooking corpses. 00:51 grumble grumble stupid bitfields 00:51 !tell K2 fixed stuff 00:51 Will do, AntiGulp! 00:57 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 00:58 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:38, on T:51965 00:59 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:51973 01:00 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 cloak of protection", on T:51974 01:03 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:52002 01:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Fire Brand", on T:52047 01:12 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 01:12 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 01:14 -!- Chris__ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:14 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible high priestess of Moloch, on T:52202 01:14 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:52207 01:16 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:47, on T:52223 01:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:44, on T:52383 01:25 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:32, on T:52688 01:40 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:53689 01:40 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor on the Plane of Earth, on T:53689 01:46 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor on the Plane of Air, on T:53827 01:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:18074 01:48 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor on the Plane of Air, on T:53890 01:55 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:57 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 32103 points, T:7372, killed by a steel golem 02:01 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:54065 02:02 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:54099 02:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed Death, on T:54125 02:17 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) bribed Asmodeus with 1315 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:19162 02:17 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu) killed Death, on T:54148 02:20 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 2023 points, T:2874, killed by an Uruk-hai 02:27 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 552 points, T:688, killed by a cave spider 02:31 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought 02:31 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris__ANG] by ChanServ 02:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 272506 points, T:19468, killed by touching The Eye of the Aethiopica 02:32 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Val Hum Mal Neu), 3208380 points, T:54150, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Ardub/xnethack/dumplog/1578169253.xnh.html 02:34 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:41 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 2343 points, T:2055, killed by a gnome lord 02:52 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 901 points, T:1291, killed by a straw golem 02:53 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 423 points, T:387, killed by a dwarf 03:29 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought 03:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v remirol] by ChanServ 03:29 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:38 <@Umby> GG Ardub 03:43 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 12173 points, T:4321, killed by a soldier ant 03:47 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 247 points, T:800, killed by a hobbit 04:11 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:42 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 9792 points, T:4267, killed by a jaguar 05:49 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:50 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 05:51 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Sam Hum Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1800 05:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Sam Hum Mal Law), 4803 points, T:2495, killed by a fire ant 06:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1195 points, T:1466, quit 06:20 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 06:24 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 06:24 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:29 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 06:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 06:41 !tell AntiGulp why are string arrays bad? I love string arrays, and I'd hate spreading out all that stuff over various data files like the variant that calls itself 3.6 does :P 06:41 LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2020-01-09 22:39 EST: wait, you're still using a string array for engravings? if you're doing this for hallumons and other data objects too, consider porting paxed's code to move them out into separate data files, could significantly reduce slex's memory footprint 06:41 LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2020-01-09 23:17 EST: You should run an image-to-ASCII converter on K2's github profile picture and put it in slex 06:41 AntiGulp shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, LarienTelrunya. 06:42 oh whoops I should have directed that message to aosdict I guess 06:42 anyway, what's next? am I gonna get the suggestion to port slex to lua? :P 06:43 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 06:44 !tell AntiGulp string arrays are very ♥fleecy♥ 06:44 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 06:47 aosdict whuh from what ancient version do you have the aosdict codebase entry? it should read "He's the first variant developer who made a big fork of NetHack 3.6.0 (AntiGulp then made one too). His variant does quite a bunch of interesting mechanical changes. You should give it a try if you have time. *bundlebundlebundle* <3" 06:55 LarienTelrunya: String arrays are a really weird hill to die on. 06:56 The reason that they're bad is because slex has to load every single one of them into RAM every time it runs, and most of them aren't getting used, which is sort of the *entire point* of files. 06:56 hi aosdict! so I guess you were looking at an old version of slex's source when you found those database entries? they have since been edited to no longer be insulting 06:56 oh so on weaker machines that would actually cause the game to run slowly? 06:57 no this was with github search 06:57 so it should be current 06:57 and given slex's sheer amount of data, it appears to cause the game to run slowly even on hardfought 06:57 at least AntiGulp said so 06:58 wtf 06:58 also I think github search finds stuff in both current and stale branches; https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/master/dat/data.base is the current data.base of slex 07:01 That version of data.base seems consistent with what I was reading yesterday 07:02 aosdict: every OS slex runs on has swap memory :-) 07:03 how much ram do i need for slex? 07:04 aosdict: oh the xnethack entry, I had only looked at the aosdict entry :D that is actually from https://www.hardfought.org/irclog/%23hardfought-2018-03-11.log 07:04 There is a 16G memory stick here. Pick it up? [ynq] 07:06 i bragged to my colleagues about my 40 gb ram but they just said that its normal for desktops nowadays 07:09 Thought I'd try EvilHack, the first question is: what are forges for? Can't seem to find anything on the wiki about them. 07:09 Dropping zombies into 07:10 aosdict, what are your PRs doing? 07:10 how* 07:11 Pinkbeast Ok so I should expect a lot of zombies then :) 07:13 stennowork: nethack has not that much memory allocation (although I recently found some tiny allocation leakage in the menu routines of unnethack, that might add up if you play for a very long time in one session) 07:13 merlek forges are a good way to get rid of corpses yes 07:13 K2: Message from AntiGulp at 2020-01-10 00:51 EST: fixed stuff 07:13 bhaak, i specifically mean slex :P 07:13 stennowork: I am planning to make some more but spent yesterday evening updating the wiki instead of making them 07:13 you #dip into one just like you would a fountain 07:13 aosdict, fair 07:13 stennowork: so as a rule of thumb, the size of the binary should be a good indicator 07:14 if you have a metal object thats corroded/rusted, dipping it into a forge has a chance of repairing it 07:14 stennowork: my 2.4.4 copy is 45 MB. probably unstripped. 07:14 stennowork: next on the slate is invweight 07:14 K2 Ah ok, thanks! 07:14 but just like a fountain, bad things can happen too 07:15 I would expect nothing less :) 07:15 :P 07:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Hea Swn Fem Neu) killed the high shaman of Moloch, on T:45237 07:38 [hdf-us] [evil] Merlek (Rog Hob Fem Neu), 1096 points, T:1884, killed by a rabid dog 07:45 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 07:48 aosdict, string arrays are actually quite efficient in non-PIE executables 07:49 go Tangles go 07:49 it's just demand-loaded data 07:49 and can be shared between all running binaries 07:50 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50 lol Tangles did you phase straight to him 07:50 heh 49 turns from invocation to picking up amulet. 07:51 in a shared library or a PIE executable, rtld needs to update all the pointers when starting the application 07:51 Not straight... parts of the sanctum are not phaseable. 07:51 so then arrays of string pointers are not a great idea 07:51 also... no diagonal phasing in this version :/ 07:51 ah right 07:51 but still, that was quick 07:52 unfortunately the same trick will not work on astral. 07:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Hea Swn Fem Neu) killed the Shelob, on T:45506 07:57 08:13 [hdf-us] [evil] Merlek (Tou Hob Fem Neu), 1919 points, T:3196, killed by a wolf 08:16 aosdict, i wonder why invweight is not in vanilla already 08:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] Merlek (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 12316 points, T:8350, killed by an ettin mummy 08:25 SpliceHack updated (all servers) 08:26 ^ bugfixes 08:26 !tell AntiGulp splicy updated 08:26 I'm on it, K2. 08:26 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Mon Elf Fem Neu), 1074 points, T:1247, killed by a gnome lady, while frozen by a monster's gaze 08:32 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Mon Elf Fem Neu) had an etched staff entrusted to her by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:736 08:35 -!- Bliss56 has joined #hardfought 08:41 -!- sdfdsfsdf has joined #hardfought 08:41 -!- remirol is now known as lorimer 08:42 -!- sdfdsfsdf is now known as aosdict|work 08:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] post163 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 80 points, T:320, slipped while mounting a saddled pony 08:45 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (humans), on T:1 08:45 pots163 08:45 heh 08:45 I think post163 just wants to see the do not pass go message 08:46 thats not you? 08:47 pots163 is a runescape player, not a nethack player 08:48 ok 08:48 ... 08:51 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Mon Elf Fem Neu) destroyed the invisible elenmirie's ghost, the former Conjurer, on T:2052 08:59 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 09:02 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 09:11 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Mon Elf Fem Neu), 3066 points, T:3735, fell into a pit of iron spikes 09:46 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:51 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:55 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 09:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 09:55 mornin 09:55 AntiGulp: Messages from LarienTelrunya and K2 have been forwarded to you privately. 09:56 LarienTelrunya: String arrays may be fleecy, but Slex has a LOT of engravings, rumors, etc. Loading them all every time creates a massive memory footprint, which is probably part of the cause of performance issues. 09:56 heya AntiGulp o/ 09:56 Plus, refactoring is fleecy :D 09:57 Morning K2! :) 09:57 refactor slex onto s much better version of nethack (read: 3.6/3.7 09:57 ) 09:57 AntiGulp: I've not seen such performance issues on any of the servers so far 09:57 YOU dont see them 09:58 LarienTelrunya: Personally, whenever I play Slex via HF, I deal with pretty heavy input lag, especially compared to vanilla and other varinats. 09:59 LarienTelrunya your internet connection isnt the best, the lag you already experience probably masks the input lag 09:59 masks as in doesnt make it as apparent 09:59 K2: when I play on esm or hdf-eu I have a pretty good connection 10:00 19 ms to esm and 31 ms to hdf-eu 10:00 111 ms to hdf-us 10:00 ESM runs on xd.cm, right? 10:00 yup 10:00 or w/e it is called right nwo 10:00 gotcha 10:01 ex-ex-ADE 10:01 Idk, these are just my observations 10:02 two 3.4.3 based variants experience input lag that i'm aware of when things get busy - grunthack and slex 10:02 neitehr tax the server though (nethack in general doesnt) 10:02 *neither 10:04 side topic - with 3.6.x being out for over 3 years now and 3.7 in development, i'm kinda curious why the actively maintained 3.4.3 based variants havent cut over yet 10:04 we know why slex hasnt 10:04 both dnethack and unnethack would benefit by making the switch imo 10:04 3 years?? 10:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Hea Swn Fem Neu) killed the Croesus, on T:50958 10:05 tempus fugit 10:05 3.6 came out december 2015 10:05 four years 10:05 3 = 4, hush 10:05 I'm actually curious why no new variants are based on 3.4.3, it seems everyone who wants to make a nethack variant these days will use the inferior 3.6/7 10:05 3.4.3 is utter trash 10:05 have you ever played vanilla 3.4.3 10:05 worst game ever 10:05 stennowork: I've actually ascendd it 10:05 I’ve spent a lot of time migrating old patches from 3.4.3 to 3.6, and the difference between them is enough that upgrading an existing variant codebase would be really difficult 10:05 gah stupid windows 7! ascended, of course 10:06 stennowork: why is it the worst game ever? because Elbereth is OP or because pudding farming is possible? 10:06 AntiGulp: it'd be better to just start from scratch and just import functions one at a time 10:06 no, just the interface things themself 10:06 and the bugs 10:06 LarienTelrunya: Personally, I find 3.4.3 frustrating to go back to because of the lack of many QOL and interface features. 10:06 it became apparent during devnull, the only time where i would play non-NAO 3.4.3 10:06 in a way evilhack did that with parts of grunthack and sporkhack 10:07 and splicehack too with parts of grunthack 10:07 LarienTelrunya: Players relatively new to the game are the most likely to be putative variant creators, and not many new players play 3.4.3 and think it's great 10:07 ah, well that's why there are well-designed variants like slex which have all kinds of interface improvements and bugfixes :D 10:07 i get it that making up facts is the new in thing nowadays, but really... 10:09 here is the order of quality of different nethacks: 10:09 AntiGulp: I remember a few years ago Tangles was making an attempt to merge 3.6.0 into grunthack. from what I remember, it was a mess 10:09 3.4.3 < 3.6.0 < 3.4.3-NAO < 3.6.1 < 3.6.2+ 10:09 maybe 3.4.3-NAO and 3.6.1 are on the same level 10:09 K2: Oh yeah, GruntHack’s functions are insane to port. It’s basically married to 3.4.3 at this point. 10:09 3.4.3-NAO > 3.4.3 >>>>>>> 3.6.1 >> 3.6.0 (because statushilites in 3.6.0... really guys...) 10:10 -!- Chris__ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10 While there are definitely a few aspects of 3.4.3 that I prefer (quest artifact theft mechanics, for example) it’s not worth dropping the QOL, bugfixes, and additional features of 3.6, 95% of which I really like. 10:10 LarienTelrunya I dont think you realize it yet, but you're losing/have already lost this argument 10:10 K2: only because the 3.6/7 fans are more numerous :P 10:11 if you mean > 1, then yes 10:11 indeed that is why K2 is saying you are losing the argument 10:11 because more people prefer 3.6+ 10:11 hahah 10:11 Gah, gotta get to work. Later yall 10:11 cya o/ 10:11 yeah and I still don't get why they do 10:11 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 10:11 * K2 thinks LarienTelrunya would play 3.6.x if it were called fleecyhack 10:12 lol... if it were called that, I'd have to make an "actuallyfleecyhack" variant of it that would make it live up to its name :P 10:12 maybe it's because 3.6+ is the official continuation of nethack by the official nethack devteam and has the potential to add new features, whereas 3.4.3 is never going to change again 10:12 first thing on the todo list: revert 99% of stuff back to 3.4.3 :P 10:14 aosdict: well I have to admit that it is, but while 3.4.3 itself is dead, 3.4.3-based variants don't necessarily have to be and can also add new stuff 10:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] Merlek (Rog Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:10085 10:15 yeah but you're not going to convince any vanilla players with the argument that a random 3.4.3 variant is where they should go first instead of the current official release 10:15 [hdf-us] [nh370] Merlek (Rog Hum Mal Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:10137 10:15 yes, sadly 10:16 it's basically like Elona, which has also IMHO jumped the shark some couple versions ago but I'm the only die-hard 1.76 player while everyone else is using 1.92 or whatever the newest version number is 10:17 AntiGulp: cool, I'm glad it was easy 10:19 bouquet I updated splicehack with the latest bug fixes from AntiGulp this morning 10:19 i think dnethack and grunthack are so far away from vanilla that it almost doesn't matter anymore that its a 3.4.3-based variants 10:20 huh? grunthack is actually not that different from vanilla I'd say? 10:20 LarienTelrunya: if I were you, i'd redo slex on 3.6.4, get in all the new additions and such, make sure it all plays nice, and then you could tweak any 3.6.x behavior you dont like and make it behave more like the things you liked from 3.4.3 10:21 LarienTelrunya: grunthack is significantly different from vanilla 10:21 K2: I hate 3.6.x so damn much, I don't want to taint my beautiful slex code with that 10:21 LarienTelrunya: the number of bugfixes alone on the 3.6.x codebase, you really should give it a serious look 10:21 grunthack isn't a kitchen sink variant but it changes lots of less visible things 10:22 K2: sure, it's easy to find a lot of commits labeled "bugfix" in there, but how do I know whether they address 3.4.3 stuff or newly added 3.6 bugs? 10:22 didn't grunthack fix all 3.4.3 bugs at some point? 10:22 istr something like that 10:22 like apart from the ones that nobody knew what they were even about 10:22 LarienTelrunya: I still have yet to hear of things you find in 3.6 that are so utterly detestable (you hate it because of status hilites? really?) 10:23 stennowork: grunthack was the spiritual ancestor of SliceHack? 10:23 i thought slash'em was 10:23 wait what was slicehack again? 10:23 slash'em is the spiritual ancestor of splice, but I'm talking about slice 10:23 stennowork: grunthack incorporated a lot of the fixes found in 343-nao 10:23 aosdict: oh I really don't want to show the document that details why I hate it, because I'm swearing a lot in there... google for "variant that calls itself 3.6" and it's one of the results 10:24 oh slice 10:24 i read splice 10:24 grunt also took a lot from spork i think 10:24 a few things yes 10:24 i forget how old grunt really is, for me it popped up much later than unnethack 10:24 not bit for bit, but concept wise yes 10:24 stennowork: slicehack fixed a lot of splice bugs before even antigulp knew about them 10:24 but i think its actually older than un? 10:25 grunthack is circa 2012 i think 10:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] Merlek (Rog Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Kos, on T:11033 10:25 unnethack is a bit older i believe 10:25 oh so it is older than i thought still 10:25 right 10:25 er younger* 10:25 oh how nice, Sting :P 10:25 sporkhack is 2007 10:25 unnethack has a lot of things from sporkhack 10:27 yeah that i know 10:27 I can't reach the wiki from here but my experience making the variant history graph makes me feel like the first release of grunthack was around the same time as sporkhack 10:28 but note that gh 0.1.0 and 0.2.0 are significantly different 10:28 same as spork? 10:28 so its older than un? 10:28 yeah 0.2.0 was the version we played during junethack 10:29 check the graph on the wiki to be sure 10:29 aosdict no, grunthack didnt come out until 2012, maybe 2011 10:30 grunthack 0.1.0 was released before sporkhack even 10:30 in 2006 according to the graph 10:30 and sporkhack was released in 2007 10:30 and that part of the graph comes from bhaak 10:30 graph is wrong 10:30 0.2.0 was released in 2012, yes 10:30 but apparently 0.1.0 is ancient (i had it like that in my memory too) 10:31 first grunthack commit - https://github.com/sgrunt/GruntHack/commit/71c688fd496defd0da54a9fa8325700a4527ad6a 10:31 march 16th 2012 10:31 I wasn't around here in that decade so I don't know how well-known it was 10:31 K2, thats the first _git_ commit 10:31 i assume there was an existing codebase already 10:32 hah ok i stand corrected 10:32 https://bilious.alt.org/?261 10:32 where is sgrunt anyway 10:32 at least oct 2006 10:32 damn 10:32 he completely withdrew from nethack once he got involved in dcss 10:32 is he still dcss devteam? 10:33 i think i was the last nail in the coffin - sgrunt got tired of me pestering him about restoring crashed games on his server 10:33 i heard his first dcss changes were.. controversial 10:33 sounds right 10:34 then again grunthack doesn't give me an impression of nerfiness like I've heard dcss' design philosophy is like 10:35 grunthack doesnt really nerf things 10:35 it pluses them up (monsters and player alike) 10:35 too much in some areas 10:35 K2: https://bilious.alt.org/?261 10:35 which is why once you get your first wish and you know what to wish for, odds are high you're gonna ascend 10:35 grunthack 0.1.0 was drive py patch drop off 10:36 bhaak yes thank you, i already linked that 3 min ago ;) 10:36 a blessed greased fixed +5 dragonhide cloak of magic resistance and reflection 10:36 then for a long time nothing and then 0.2.0 and 0.2.1 in relative short order IIRC 10:36 then you die in one turn to a beholder which generated on dlvl4 10:36 water walking boots of speed wtf 10:36 <@Tone> Didn't realize sgrunt was on the dcss devteam. I've been getting into DCSS lately thought and they are periodically referenced as a player throughout the learndb, and I had been wondering if it was the same sgrunt 10:36 yeah if you found an early wow you could OP yourself up 10:37 stennowork: no, he is no longer with DCSS. but I don't know if he just stopped or if there was a fall out 10:37 <@Tone> though* 10:37 @Tone dunno if they are still involved in it - but at some point they were 10:37 i see 10:37 overall grunthack is still more difficult than vanilla, but the difficulty drops off a fair amount towards the endgame 10:37 [hdf-us] [nh370] Merlek (Rog Hum Mal Cha) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon him by Kos, on T:12664 10:38 K2: what Antigulp said Re: 3.4.3 variant -> 3.6/3.7. also 3.6 wasn't stable up until now. upgrading it is an assful lot of work. 10:38 it was not clear if GH 0.2.0 was even ascendable, but then came stth 10:38 bhaak yup 10:38 so unnethack on 3.6.x when 10:38 :P 10:39 insanely more difficult than vanilla imo 10:39 esp the early game 10:39 braiiiins... 10:40 sporkhack is the opposite - about the same as vanilla difficulty wise starting out, but progressively gets harder the farther you go 10:40 yeah i really like the difficulty of sporkhack 10:40 K2: :-P 10:40 and then evilhack is just hard all the way around :P 10:40 unnethacks difficulty is between spork and vanilla 10:40 K2: how about February 5 2012? https://unnethack.wordpress.com/2012/02/05/unnethack-3-6-1-released/ 10:40 stennowork yes I agree 10:40 spork is straight-hard, grunt is crazy-hard 10:40 stennowork: I feel like if we had had the current crop of speedrunners to unleash on gh 0.2.0 when it was released, it would have been ascended in a few days 10:41 hmm idk 10:41 imagine luxidream and Tone co-strategizing 10:41 maybe? 10:41 not until Tangles bug fixes 10:42 that I ascended any games on the grunthack server is a small miracle 10:42 we had some elite players back then too 10:42 stth, nht, maud 10:42 adeon 10:42 YASI: make imp taunts darker and edgier. 10:43 maybe variants weren't as popular back then 10:43 jonadab: such as? 10:43 jonadab, with lots of 'your momma' jokes 10:43 The imp grants you a glimpse of your mother's captive soul, which has been tortured since her untimely death ten years ago. "She died thinking of you, you know." 10:43 lol, guess what slex imp taunts do 10:44 if you guessed "they spam your momma jokes", you are right :P 10:44 Most yo momma jokes aren't dark and edgy, though. At least, most of the ones I've heard. Ridiculous and over-the-top more like. 10:44 bhaak 3.6.1 unnethack? wut? 10:45 I can't be the only one who got tired of reading "The imp casts aspersions on your ancestry" 200 times. 10:45 Indeed. 10:45 So I added some actual aspersions. :P 10:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] Heliokopis (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Sir Garland, on T:24614 10:45 The list is too short for as frequent as it happens. 10:45 "Your simian countenance suggests a heritage unusually rich in species diversity." 10:46 (Calvin and Hobbes, of course.) 10:51 [hdf-us] [nh370] Merlek (Rog Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:14101 10:52 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Val Gia Fem Neu) had an elven helm entrusted to her by Odin, on T:6278 10:54 "That was worth 25 zorkmids." 10:54 from bash.org: 10:54 * andy Quit (Quit: Your Mom is so dumb that she tried to minimize a 12 variable function to a minimal sum of products expression using a karnaugh map instead of the Quine-McCluskey Algorithm.) 10:56 bah. anyone could make that mistake 11:17 make the mistake of being gifted an elven helm? 11:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Hea Swn Mal Neu) destroyed Orcus, on T:53124 11:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Hea Swn Mal Neu) killed the Glasya, on T:53266 11:28 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 11:33 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:44 -!- stennowork has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 12697 points, T:10846, killed by a chameleon imitating a baluchitherium 11:49 Your mom is so dumb, she thinks lucern hammer uses the hammer skill? 11:50 <{Demo}1> lmao 11:53 Your mom is so dense she'd sink to the bottom of a sea of loadstones 11:54 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:54 K2: UnNetHack is far ahead of vanilla version numbers. obviously it is much better than 3.6.4 already. 11:54 obviously 11:55 oh is that why you're copying its features into 3.7.0 11:55 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 11:55 <{Demo}1> lol 11:55 of course. why else? 11:56 -!- stennowork is now known as Guest18579 11:56 hah 11:56 oh look, new branch in 3.7 11:56 'the dragon caves' oooh whats that? 11:56 'sheol' - never heard of it 11:56 one task is to make it a good base for variants but for that it's missing a lot of unnethack features 11:56 :P 11:57 like the reduced dragon scales/scale mail 11:57 err 11:57 3.7 is going to see reduced ac from DSM? 11:58 I am solidly against putting CDSM in vanilla 11:58 too OP 11:58 -!- Guest18579 has quit [Changing host] 11:58 -!- Guest18579 has joined #hardfought 11:58 -!- Guest18579 is now known as stennowork 11:58 * aosdict|work intends to implement dtsund-dragon-scales in xnethack 11:59 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Mon Elf Fem Cha), 50 points, T:170, killed by a water moccasin 12:00 aosdict I agree about CDSM 12:00 same reason its not in evilhack 12:00 CDSM is fine in un, but not in vanilla 12:01 actually if it was nonwishable and only obtainable in an endgame branch... 12:02 but that would require a lategame branch to exist in the first place 12:02 endgame is too lategame 12:02 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:02 K2: Slash'EM has a branch called the Wyrm Caves. It's a single level though. 12:02 <{Demo}1> slashem is epic 12:03 * jonadab is in favor of dtsund dragon scales as well. 12:03 If I could ever get fourk $nextversion save-stable... 12:03 i cant remember, whats the thing about dtsund scales 12:04 K2: They grant no AC in themselves; you wear them in the cloak slot over other armor and enchant them to make it color-scaled whatever (e.g., silver-scaled dwarven mithril), which grants it the extrinsic. 12:04 ohh, that's soo many new tiles ... 12:04 neat 12:05 so its like upgrading your existing armor 12:05 paxed: I think the item just uses its base tile, and the scales are a property. 12:05 Yes, it upgrades your body armor with a scale color. 12:05 i'm assuming one and done correct? 12:05 no stacking of scales 12:05 Indeed, no stacking. 12:05