00:09 [hdf-us] [spl] JohnKeel (Wiz Mer Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (disenchanter), on T:40223 00:10 -!- AntiVirus81 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:14995 00:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:15456 00:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:15603 00:44 -!- rld1 has joined #hardfought 00:44 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld1] by ChanServ 00:44 -!- rld has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45 -!- rld1 is now known as rld 00:46 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:3699 01:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 3220 points, T:4949, killed by a dart, while fainted from lack of food 01:04 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 01:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 01:14 -!- Jonathan_ has joined #hardfought 01:15 -!- Jonathan__ has joined #hardfought 01:18 -!- Jonathan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] carr0t (Arc Hum Mal Neu) wished for "magic marker", on T:58613 01:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed fireproof +2 robe", on T:16698 01:28 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:29 -!- Jonathan_ has joined #hardfought 01:33 -!- Jonathan__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) genocided class L, on T:17436 01:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) genocided class N, on T:17437 01:41 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 01:42 -!- Grasshopper_ has joined #hardfought 01:45 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Dragonbane bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:19001 01:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) genocided class h, on T:19006 01:53 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Kni Hum Mal Law), 1942 points, T:1981, killed by a werewolf, while sleeping 01:54 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 01:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 01:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) genocided electric eel, on T:19469 02:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Kni Hum Mal Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon him by Lugh, on T:62197 02:06 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought 02:06 -!- TheGame20_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha) killed Drauglir, on T:51813 02:16 -!- eLtMosen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:23 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 02:24 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:42 -!- Grasshopper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:24336 03:01 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 03:04 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:06 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Kni Hum Mal Law) had Excalibur thrown at him by some watery tart, on T:2957 03:26 -!- Ytteb has joined #hardfought 03:39 #ad 03:39 1ZACiAXFpxLO0 03:39 #ad 03:39 1ZBCiBXFpxLO1 03:39 Da 03:39 :named XFpxLO 03:39 ^ 03:44 Nice macro. 03:57 Take that, past Tangles. 03:58 also, weaponless for 11k turns lol. 03:58 the heavy iron ball isn't a weapon, apparently. 03:59 I wonder whether all the monsters you smooshed under it would agree. 04:00 a cockatrice corpse isn't a weapon either 04:07 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 04:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 04:23 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:7817 04:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Ran Elf Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed master key of thievery", on T:8643 04:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 8734 points, T:8385, killed by an ettin mummy 04:33 -!- Ytteb has quit [Quit: Ytteb] 05:09 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought 05:23 -!- Xjs has joined #hardfought 05:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] Losthismarbles (Rog Hum Mal Cha) chose a runed broadsword to be named "Orcrist", on T:14264 05:32 aiiigh 05:38 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 05:42 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 05:58 -!- Jonathan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:06 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:4311 06:11 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:11 Evil Patch idea: if you are blind and wearing no gloves, pressing s while next to a cockatrice corpse turns you to stone. 06:12 Actually, EPI: if you are blind and wearing no gloves, pressing s while next to an alive cockatrice should also turn you to stone, because in both cases you've supposedly "felt" for things on the adjacent spaces to figure out that they're there. 06:33 grats elenmirie_ 06:36 ty! 06:36 was that a 'proper' 3.6.3 ascension? 06:46 -!- eLtMosen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:48 uh i think i already found a bug regarding the mysterious force patch :D 06:48 can it be that g.context.mysteryforce is never initialized? 06:49 this would lead to it having a randomized value, so at the moment the mysterious force shouldn't really trigger at all... 06:54 pssst 06:55 actually if it is unsigned, it might just always trigger lmao 07:04 -!- merleke has joined #hardfought 07:05 made a thing https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/e88x4a/the_next_nethack_version_nerfs_the_mysterious/ 07:05 the force not triggering at all doesn't sound like a bug to me :P 07:05 stennowork, hmm, global variables are initialized to 0, 0.0 or NULL 07:06 jilles, thanks, i will adjust it my post 07:06 you're only right if a local incompletely initialized struct is copied, or if the data is allocated using malloc() 07:08 it's also in the g.context -struct, which is initialized as DUMMY 07:09 (which is { 0 }) 07:09 gotcha 07:09 also grumble grumble why does the force have to stay just because the one who designed it also designed the shop system? (in fact, why would someone who created such a great thing as the shop system also create such a terrible thing as the mysterious force???) 07:14 [hdf-us] [nh363] arnibald (Cav Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first item, on T:36299 07:16 Izchak didn't design the shop system. 07:16 shops were already in hack 07:17 huh? but I thought he was a major contributor to the way shops are working now? 07:17 "He personally wrote much of the shopkeeper code, as well as major contributions to prayer, alignments, and the version 3.1 rewrite of Gehennom." 07:18 the wiki is suspiciously silent about the mysterious force though :P 07:18 I read that as he closed many of the loopholes 07:18 shoplifting is trivial in hack and early versions of nethack 07:20 haha you should have seen Porkman's reaction when he realized I closed many of the still-existing shoplifting loopholes for slex (such as infinite credit cloning) :P 07:24 shoplifting is clearly part of the game 07:24 otherwise shops would just work like in angband and dcss 07:25 dcss got some criticism over their shop system by berlin interpretation purists 07:25 yeah dcss's system is modal :D 07:35 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:43 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:49 !PoM 07:49 APic: The moon is full for 4 more days. 07:49 🙌 07:51 Not even as good as the cloak I'm wearing. How about something useful? 07:54 -!- kritixil1 has joined #hardfought 07:56 -!- kritixil1 has quit [Client Quit] 07:57 -!- kritixil1 has joined #hardfought 07:57 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57 -!- kritixil1 has quit [Client Quit] 07:57 <{Demo}> why are dwarf mummies faster than dwarves? 07:57 <{Demo}> are they? 07:57 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 07:58 Of course as an orc I just wanted an elven dagger. 07:58 Maybe I'll name it Sting and kill myself. 07:59 {Demo}: they probably haven't got the memo that undead are supposed to be sluggish! 08:00 gnome mummies are also faster than gnomes 08:00 and kobold mummies are faster than kobolds... I think I'm noticing a theme 08:01 <{Demo}> are they all speed 12? 08:03 no, most of them are 10 (actually the dwarf mummy is also 10, but a regular dwarf is only 6) 08:03 giant mummies even have speed 14 even though a regular giant only has 6! 08:29 ugh 08:30 [hdf-us] [nh363] Nocki (Bar Hum Fem Neu), 4984 points, T:2964, killed by a dwarf king 08:37 Yeah bye bye unicorn horn. 08:37 now I have to wait another 15k turns for another unicorn to show up. 08:39 i am not cleverbot. i am a unicorn! 08:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "Tie-Dye Shirt of Shambhala", on T:7329 08:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 30164 points, T:16056, killed by a death ray 08:51 bah.. wand of death in soko in the wrong hands :/ 08:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] Nocki (Val Dwa Fem Law), 986 points, T:1678, killed by a rothe 08:54 Whoah 08:54 My Condolences 08:58 thanks :) 08:59 the rng giveth and taketh, +3 cloak of displacement on dlvl1 :D 09:01 ☺ 09:07 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 969 points, T:1575, killed by a bolt of lightning 09:15 oh it's one of those days.. 09:16 team early attack wand going strong it seems 09:16 indeed :) 09:16 !gt wand of lightning 09:17 :P 09:18 I've had a lot of that particular one. 09:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Brd Clk Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Tie-Dye Shirt of Shambhala", on T:20739 09:23 my deaths usually come at the hands of team LWTWOD 09:23 I can't be the only one. 09:31 o.O carnivorous bag? meat-eating old lady? 09:32 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought 09:33 carnivorous hag <- new hallu mon 09:34 ah :D 09:34 well, bag not hag :P 09:34 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35 never mind me.. 09:38 ah so it's a bag of tricks, should've figured that out 09:39 oh sorry, it was an actual question lol 09:40 yeah :D 09:41 too little coffee on my end. 09:42 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:00 [hdf-us] [nh343] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 0 points, T:17, killed by a goblin 10:01 -!- eLtMosen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:01 [hdf-us] [nh363] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 3360 points, T:3916, killed by a gnome 10:04 -!- telegarn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Brd Clk Mal Law) killed Oona, on T:20849 10:04 <{Demo}> disgusting 10:04 <{Demo}> oona is such a good pet, esp for bards 10:05 <{Demo}> and clkwk cause she can wind 10:05 <{Demo}> this is a sin against oona 10:13 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 10:18 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:23 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 828 points, T:2225, killed by a giant bat 10:24 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:28 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Pri Hum Mal Cha), 2334 points, T:3406, killed by a rothe 10:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 321 points, T:1103, killed by a gnome lord 10:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Cav Hum Mal Law), 373 points, T:1845, killed by a little dog 10:41 <@malor> I don't know how I killed Oona? I didn't attack her and until I read the discord I didn't even know she was dead! One of my pets must have rolled a crit or something. I was actually planning to try to peace-her. But the angels that were there started doing some good damage so I left to do the soldier area. Which resulted in all of my winding pets dying to arsenal so now I am replenishing my "food sources". I'll go back and get the keys 10:42 and finish the job 🙂 10:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:5370 10:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 7116 points, T:5427, killed by a leocrotta 10:48 [hdf-us] [nh4] PopeJohn (bbola) (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 29499 points, T:1879, killed by a giant ant 10:50 <@rikersan> malor she grudges on the eladrin I think 10:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 3944 points, T:3405, killed by a human mummy 10:55 [hdf-us] [gh] hothraxxa (Hea Hum Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "test", on T:3435 11:05 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:53222 11:06 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha) genocided class J, on T:53223 11:14 [hdf-us] [gh] hothraxxa (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 2657 points, T:3805, killed by a kobold shaman, while asleep 11:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:43619 11:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:31428 11:20 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:31494 11:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:31682 11:32 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:5867 11:36 -!- NAOrsa has joined #hardfought 11:36 !pom 11:36 NAOrsa: The moon is full for 4 more days. 11:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:33085 11:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 1879 points, T:2285, killed by a dwarf 11:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) destroyed Famine, on T:33370 11:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:44322 11:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) destroyed Pestilence, on T:33423 11:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) destroyed Death, on T:33451 11:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Bar Orc Fem Cha) wished for "holy +10 fixed greased kingslayer", on T:33477 11:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 7181615 points, T:33478, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/Demo3/dnethack/dumplog/1575728429.dnh.txt 12:00 <{Demo}> full tour 12:02 -!- stennowork has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:09 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 329296 points, T:25007, quit 12:10 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 12:21 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:23 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Quit: quit] 12:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) rejected atheism by offering a sewer rat corpse on an altar of Thoth, on T:8877 12:37 <@Tone> grats demo! 12:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Thoth, on T:11807 12:39 oh nice one demo, grats :) 12:39 -!- stennowork has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:49008 12:50 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:57 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Brd Clk Mal Law) wished for "blessed +2 black dragon scale mail", on T:22566 13:05 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 13:11 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 13:14 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 13:24 [hdf-us] [evil] telegarn (Sam Hum Fem Law) destroyed Everdying's hobbit mummy, the former Excursionist, on T:7384 13:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] krm26 (Hea Gno Mal Neu) killed the Cyclops, on T:41471 13:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] krm26 (Hea Gno Mal Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:41473 13:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] krm26 (Hea Gno Mal Neu) murdered Questar, his faithful Aleax, on T:41591 13:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] krm26 (Hea Gno Mal Neu) murdered Emergency, his faithful rock troll, on T:41874 14:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Gnr-Ran Gno Fem Neu) wished for "Blessed +2 fixed tiny crescent moon axe", on T:923 14:18 [hdf-us] [nh363] krm26 (Hea Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 cloak of protection", on T:42494 14:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Gnr-Ran Gno Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1030 14:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Kni Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a xorn, on T:66626 14:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Ran Orc Mal Cha), 1377 points, T:1505, killed by a dwarf 14:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Gnr-Ran Gno Fem Neu) was given their Quest, on T:2546 14:33 whoops, teleport control rings aren't, in fact, edible in this game 14:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) killed the invisible Dark One, on T:55817 14:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:55818 14:38 SLAIN 14:39 -!- telegarn has joined #hardfought 14:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Ran Gno Fem Neu), 17043 points, T:3773, killed by the Great High Shaman of Kurtulmak 14:40 <{Demo}> hmm, couldn't survive a single round of combat 14:41 -!- telegarn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:44 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 14:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:18624 14:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] fdsa (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 241 points, T:1317, killed by a red mold 15:14 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Tou Hob Fem Neu) had an axe entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:23885 15:15 -!- Andrio has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:17 -!- Andrio has joined #hardfought 15:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:21195 15:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Brd Clk Mal Law) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:26481 15:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 783 points, T:1476, killed by a gnome lord 15:22 !lastgame post163 15:22 post163: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/post163/evilhack/dumplog/1575922920.evil.html 15:24 !lastgame post163 15:24 post163: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/post163/splicehack/dumplog/1575923056.splice.html 15:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] Cropper (Val Hum Fem Law), 1359 points, T:2049, killed by a dwarf zombie, while frozen by a monster's gaze 15:29 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought 15:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (class h), on T:21687 15:37 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Brd Clk Mal Law) was given their Quest, on T:27429 15:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] Cropper (Val Hum Fem Law), 1620 points, T:1805, killed by an Elvenking 15:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) genocided class L, on T:21810 15:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) genocided class ;, on T:21811 15:58 -!- telegarn has joined #hardfought 16:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2258 points, T:3652, killed by a little dog 16:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Brd Clk Mal Law) killed Aglaope, on T:28061 16:27 !lastgame post163 16:27 post163: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/post163/evilhack/dumplog/1575923087.evil.html 16:37 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:27280 16:37 -!- Bliss56 has joined #hardfought 16:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:53340 16:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased fixed bag of holding", on T:27281 16:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 33 points, T:110, killed by a falling rock 16:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "The Eye of the Aethiopica", on T:27469 16:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:1102 16:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 335 points, T:1651, killed by a sewer rat 16:50 -!- eLtMosen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:51 https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/e88x4a/the_next_nethack_version_nerfs_the_mysterious/ 16:51 ^ thanks stenno 16:51 all, if you have anything to say about it, do it there 16:52 "You could lobby the public server admins to backport this change or even just to remove the mysterious force." 16:54 we wouldnt do that to 363-hdf - other than server side bits and visual enhancements, its supposed to be vanilla 16:54 however 16:54 I disagree with just plain _removing_ the Mysterious Force, unless some other compensating mechanism is in place to do its job. 16:54 370-hdf will be available soon 16:54 <@luxidream> Do it bhaak 16:55 <@luxidream> You are dev 16:55 <@luxidream> Use your limitless power 16:55 (Its job being, to make it difficult or resource-intensive to skip up through Gehennom in like 50 turns or something on the ascension run.) 16:55 But _adjusting_ the mysterious force to be less annoying, seems fine. 16:55 @luxidream you commoners overestimate the power of a single dev. 16:56 jonadab: that is its job but it fails at it 16:56 now even more than before. 16:56 bhaak: It's not perfect, I realize. I changed it in Fourk. 16:56 every variant changed it somehow :-) 16:56 (In Fourk, the Mysterious Force doesn't make you repeat levels; but it blocks horizontal controlled teleport if you have the amulet.) 16:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Kni Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:10243 16:57 (So you can't just Ctrl-T to the up stairs every level.) 16:57 <@luxidream> Well, did PatR discuss with you when he was going to make this change? 16:57 i liked what lorimer did to replace the mysterious force, and I ported it over to evilhack 16:58 no tele at all with the amulet, and nasties spawn on the upsatirs as you travel up with the amulet 16:58 *upstairs 16:58 @luxidream no, but he mentioned several times (I'm not sure how often public though) that it was a hill he would die on. 16:59 bhaak did you do the same MF change/removal for unnethack that sporkhack has? i cant remember 17:00 I remember that Un changes it in some way, but I don't recall details. Have never been to Gehennom in Un. 17:00 K2: yes. I played several wizard ascension with a see-everything cheat and it was amazing how in the vanilla behavior the generated monsters are just uselessly trying to catch up with you while you zip over the level to the stairs. 17:00 catch up? 17:01 the nasties *spawn on* the upsatirs 17:01 stairs 17:01 Not in vanilla. 17:01 jfc 17:01 right not in vanilla 17:01 oh 17:01 nm 17:01 i thought he was replying directly to my un/spork question 17:02 yeah if one were to remove the MF entirely and not replace it with something challenging, the ascrun becomes somewhat trivial 17:02 ok gotta go, will be back soon 17:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed ring of free action", on T:28301 17:03 <@luxidream> Clearly PatR’s opinion matters and he is able to make decisions over the top of other dev team members 17:03 <@luxidream> So to say that one dev can’t do anything probably isn’t true 17:04 in unnethack the amulet of yendor prevents you also from entering magic portals (besides the quest portal, obviously) 17:04 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 17:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 17:04 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 17:06 <@luxidream> see also: PatR, green slimes and genocide 17:07 @luxidream who writes code has somewhat of an advantage. there is not a daily meeting where we discuss who does what. I don't think it's that different from other open source projects and certainly somewhat similar to the approach of DCSS, although with less visible discussions 17:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:54964 17:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:54965 17:11 <@luxidream> Ah, I was under the impression that there was almost no discussion from ais523 has said in the past 17:13 ais and I weren't around for the 3.6.0 stuff. I've been told that there was much more discussion for what patches to include and which patches weren't worth fighting for. 17:13 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 speed boots", on T:29113 17:15 you can see that there isn't much stuff in 3.7 that could have been contentious and 3.6 was mostly in bugfix mode. so not much need for discussion. the smaller stuff often doesn't get discussed. sometimes afterwards, if it turns out to be problematic, see PatR, green slimes and genocide 17:19 <{Demo}> vanilla needs to fix mummy speeds 17:19 <{Demo}> the force doesnt matter at all 17:19 <{Demo}> all that matters is mummy speeds 17:20 <@Tone> Summon nasties on upstairs for the ascension run sounds like a nice source of cockatrice corpses 17:23 <@IceBox> Make Mummies Very Fast (Again?)! 17:24 <{Demo}> how does mummifying a gnome make it move faster? 17:25 Mummies are undead and imbued with supernatural powers. 17:25 <{Demo}> so r zombies 17:25 <{Demo}> and they arent faster 17:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] Leeroy (Kni Hum Mal Law), 55736 points, T:12704, killed by a dwarf, while reading a book 17:31 <@malor> Leeroy are you on Discord or IRC? 17:32 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 17:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 17:32 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) genocided class P, on T:30066 17:33 with regards to communication, somewhat of a problem is of course that the mailing list is the only medium that reaches everybody. mails can be a bit cumbersome. a few of us are on IRC as well in a channel, so that makes some stuff a bit easier. 17:34 <@John Keel> !tell antigulp another splicehack issue - on loading save, I got: Restoring save file... Finishing off moonstone... which, naturally, destroyed my moonstone 17:34 Will do, @John Keel! 17:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed ring of levitation", on T:30243 17:39 <@luxidream> irc is the future 17:39 <@luxidream> :p 17:41 -!- unsound has joined #hardfought 17:44 -!- unsound has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 17:46 2020 is the year of IRC on the desktop. 17:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Pri Hum Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:30633 17:51 -!- unsound has joined #hardfought 17:59 i wish PatR would chat on irc sometimes, would be nice to converse with him in real time 17:59 maybe he's here already under an alias and never speaks, just reads 18:02 <@IceBox> always waiting 18:02 <@IceBox> always listening 18:02 that would be a bad idea. 18:02 not discussing stuff and only reading the criticism is not healthy. 18:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Kni Hum Mal Law) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon him by Lugh, on T:69915 18:03 just think what LarienTelrunya's opinion would do to your view of the community :-) 18:04 <@luxidream> LarienTelrunya's opinion is not the majority 18:04 <@luxidream> I think that's pretty obvious just from reading haha 18:04 she leads a group of one that thinks 3.6.x is a variant 18:05 fleecy 18:05 a vocal minority can distort the view 18:05 does the devteam have a secret annual meeting where you all get together for a weekend and go crazy? 18:06 bhaak yes very much so (read: american politics) 18:06 is nethack4 considered a variant 18:06 lol, at least the 3.6 devteam isn't like the AOFE developers, who made a mod of age of empires 2 (which was officially called a mod) and then suddenly said "no it's an official expansion now". 18:07 the way it's listed as "nethack 4.x variants" vs "nethack 3.x variants" suggests it isn't 18:07 <@luxidream> it is a variant 18:07 K2: no annual meeting :-) I met 1 devteam member in person, and one on skype. and one beta tester in person 18:08 <@luxidream> however, several other variants use it as a base 18:08 yeah 18:08 nethack itself is a variant of hack 18:08 I'd argue it should be listed as "nethack4" rather than "nethack 4.x" 18:09 isn't it nethack4 4.x.y? 18:09 bhaak: I thought nethack itself is a variant of unnethack :P 18:09 nethack4 a.b.c.d.e... 18:10 yeah or nethack4 4.x for consistency 18:10 LarienTelrunya: well, nethack 3.6/3.7 has more of unnethack in it than unnethack has of 3.6/3.7 ... you can draw your own conclusions from that :-) 18:11 <@luxidream> black market for 3.7 18:11 bhaak: the conclusion is that nethack 3.6 is a variant... of unnethack :D :D :D 18:11 -!- merleke has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:12 <@malor> luxi is that true or just something you are musing would be nice? 18:12 <@malor> re black market in 3.7 18:12 <@luxidream> I'm joking 18:12 <@malor> k 18:13 orc town for 3.6 18:13 wait that wasn't a joke 18:13 :< 18:15 <@luxidream> I wonder if the mysterious force and orctown are equally unpopular 18:15 orctown is fine 18:15 i think the wiki incorrectly states in origin 18:15 its 18:16 <@luxidream> oh no! the wiki was wrong?! 😮 18:16 <@luxidream> :p 18:16 impossible 18:16 reality is defined by the wiki 18:16 <@luxidream> oh yeah it was in spork first right 18:16 <@luxidream> easy fix 18:17 <@luxidream> I think orctown is fine too 18:17 <@luxidream> but the mysterious force also has its defenders 18:17 it's not wrong technically, it's just omitting its origin 18:19 <@malor> Question on mysterious force: has anyone ever died because of it? Or is it only an unknown time sinc? If that’s all it is, it makes sense to reduce it. 18:20 hardly anybody dies on the ascension run. the mysterious force is mostly a really annoying nuisance 18:21 <@luxidream> Someone has certainly died when the wizard showed up because they were stuck in Gehennom due to the force, but that's mostly their fault 18:22 <@luxidream> the main purpose of the mysterious force is to add more RNG to speedruns 18:22 <@luxidream> :V 18:22 <@malor> Ok then eliminate mysterious force after 4 hours of game time 🙂 18:22 lol 18:22 <@luxidream> I'm being tongue in cheek 18:23 <@luxidream> but it also affects game time speedruns too 18:23 <@luxidream> turncount 18:23 I still can't believe the reasoning for keeping the mysterious force in the game is "because it's been designed by Izchak". If Izchak had designed a feature where there's a 1 in a million chance per turn for the game to segfault for no reason, would it also be kept in just because he designed it? 18:24 yup.. fix the bug, keep the feature 18:24 obviously a segfault is a bug 18:24 right amy? :) 18:24 yeah it is, I'm just theoretizing 18:25 not much though. from sanctum to dungeon level 1 you only have a few hundred turns. even a persisten mysterious force doesn't add that much to it. 18:25 if he had designed a feature where there's a 1 in a million chance per turn that the player character's current and max HP are halved for no reason, would it also be kept because he designed it? 18:25 i know players who have raged quit because of the MF 18:25 <@luxidream> bhaak: it can make you run out of teleport charges 18:26 <@luxidream> which turncount speedrunners commonly use on the asc run 18:26 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought 18:26 when another devteam member dies, which is bound to happen sometime, will all of their contributions become unchangeable 18:26 <@luxidream> lol stenno 18:26 <@luxidream> I've also done that at least once 18:26 huh? 18:27 I hope that when I die (which hopefully won't happen anytime soon), all of slex will become unchangeable :P 18:27 <@luxidream> "i know players who have raged quit because of the MF" 18:27 i read 'unplayable' 18:27 oh yeah heh 18:27 <@luxidream> all of slex is already unchangeable 18:27 <@luxidream> I mean 18:28 <@luxidream> who else is developing it 18:28 i really like the nerf 18:28 so some things none of us know - did PatR and Izchak know each other in real life? what kind of relationship did they have? the MF has been around a *long* time, this cant be the first time its been brought up. there's info we're definitely not privy to 18:28 @luxidream: well I'm developing it, and I can and do sometimes make changes ;) 18:28 Menche: Izchak was a special case though. he and Mike Stephenson were apparently a tight project leading team and if somebody has such a strong opinion after 25 years of this person's death, that's saying something 18:29 i get it if Pat doesnt want it removed, but at least he made a change 18:29 that's a big deal 18:30 <@John Keel> jfc 18:30 and here's the beauty of open source - dont like something, make your own changes, compile it and play that :P 18:30 <@John Keel> I just lost a run by accidentally walking into an invisible apprentice in front of my quest leader 18:30 <@luxidream> If the MF is symbolic of their relationship what exactly does that mean lol 18:30 (read: every other variant) 18:30 <@John Keel> I'm a wizard, no way back in 18:30 <@malor> Would more people play more games if there was no mf? Would fewer people play? 18:31 crazy variant devs can now gamify the mysterious force 18:31 @John Keel :( 18:31 connect it to alignment record or so 18:31 or conenct it to playername 18:31 <@luxidream> @John Keel if the apprentice drank invis and you didn't have see invis 18:31 that too would be nice 18:31 <@luxidream> it's a bug 18:31 if (playername(stenno)) MF every 3 turns; 18:31 <@luxidream> peacefuls aren't supposed to do that 18:32 <@John Keel> the splicehack changes pages suggests that killing quest leader would also work, but I think it has to be without getting shoved back into the main dungeon first 18:32 in slex, the mysterious force exists only when playing evilvariant mode :D 18:32 !who 18:32 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] tizakit [nh363] Lachtain [nh363] Merlek [nh363] Bliss56 [nh363] oh6 [nh363] zor [dnh] telegarn [evil] JohnKeel [spl] | [hdf-eu] Kontroller [nh363] rsa [nh363] | [hdf-au] No current players 18:32 or make it even more annoying 18:32 @John Keel I think splicehack's implementation of being able to kill your quest leader to finish the quest if you pissed them off is bugged 18:32 <@luxidream> Yeah you're kinda screwed 18:33 <@John Keel> well I mean 18:33 <@John Keel> the portal is gone 18:33 <@John Keel> and I can't wish for branchporting because it's my quest artifact 18:33 <@luxidream> right, you would have to kill them from range to keep them from ejecting you probably 18:33 @malor probably not. but the mysterious force is one of the most tedious features in nethack. it's in the already tedious gehennom (there are players that stop a game after the castle and consider it 'won') and when you just want to be able to finish the game, going through the same level again and again can be mind wrecking 18:34 [hdf-us] [spl] JohnKeel (Wiz Mer Fem Neu) averted death, on T:43237 18:35 <@luxidream> most people who complain about gehennom don't bring magic mapping or clairvoyance 18:35 <@luxidream> and choose to walk through the mazes 18:36 [hdf-us] [spl] JohnKeel (Wiz Mer Fem Neu) killed One-Eyed Sam the Arms Dealer, on T:43462 18:36 <@John Keel> what a chump 18:36 hah 18:36 someone should probably file a complaint to AntiGulp filled with lots of "bundlebundlebundle"s :P 18:36 <@John Keel> she went down easy to someone with nothing to lose 18:36 1ES is supposed to be HARD 18:37 yes, there are some ways to make it less painful. but shouldn't it be not broken design wise in the first place? 18:37 <@John Keel> I hit her with four acid spray at skilled 18:37 <@John Keel> she doesn't resist acid it seems 18:37 <{Demo}> hey k2 add 1ES to evil 18:37 hmm no 18:37 the new wider mazes in gehennom are not pretty but at least less tedious 18:37 i thought about it way back, decided against it 18:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) genocided master mind flayer, on T:57475 18:37 <{Demo}> hey k2 add slashem gypsies to evilhack 18:38 no 18:38 racist! 18:38 * K2 gasps 18:38 [hdf-us] [spl] JohnKeel (Wiz Mer Fem Neu), 283030 points, T:43469, caught herself in her own splash of acid 18:38 <{Demo}> i forget that gypsies are an actual thing in europe 18:38 <@John Keel> maybe I should have left bones but this was more fun 18:38 -!- unsound has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2] 18:38 fun is what its all about 18:39 <@luxidream> I should time myself doing gehennom with no mapping and no clairvoyance to see how tedious it actually is 18:39