00:00 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Pir Inf Mal Cha) had The Marauder's Map bestowed upon him by the storm, on T:1377 00:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Hlf Fem Law), 28659 points, T:11956, killed by an ogre lord 00:14 <@rikersan> $lastasc bouquet 00:14 @rikersan: [US] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/tnnt/dumplog/1573280509.tnnt.html 00:18 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 864 points, 2497 turns, killed by a magic missile 00:25 [US] [Q]: mangotiger (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 8972 points, 6770 turns, quit (and 5 other games not reported) 00:26 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1610 points, 1523 turns, killed by a wand (and one other game not reported) 00:31 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 157 points, 376 turns, killed by a sewer rat (and 6 other games not reported) 00:34 intrinsic polycontrol ^_^ 00:37 <@ShivanHunter> lmao code scroll in a shop 00:37 whow much for? 00:37 and what did that shirt do anwyay 00:37 telepathy and luck? 00:38 <@ShivanHunter> 9 zm 00:38 <@ShivanHunter> and it's warning and luck 00:40 <@ShivanHunter> lol and a 1x3 armor shop, 1 of which is a mimic 00:41 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 00:47 <@ShivanHunter> Mike Stephenson throws an exception! You are hit by an exception! You die... DYWYPI? 00:51 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2033 points, 3596 turns, killed by a giant beetle (and 35 other games not reported) 00:58 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 12 points, 140 turns, killed by an arrow (and 62 other games not reported) 00:59 [US] [D]: Luxidream (Mon-Hum-Mal-Law), 590215 points, 49169 turns, petrified by a cockatrice 01:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-11 06:00 UTC: Games: 968, Asc: 1, Scum: 894. 382651 turns, 5020495 points. 4d 03:55 gametime. (66%Wiz), (51%Hum), (45%Cha), (80%Mal), 19d 17:59 remaining. 01:02 [US] [D]: thegame (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 2290 points, 3170 turns, killed by a priestess of Set, while paralyzed by a monster 01:05 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 413 points, 315 turns, killed by a gnome (and 18 other games not reported) 01:10 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Pir Inf Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:5763 01:12 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 461 points, 1094 turns, killed by a bugbear (and 50 other games not reported) 01:12 [US] [D]: AntiVirus (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 1472 points, 2402 turns, killed by a paper golem, while frozen by a monster's gaze 01:15 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Pir Inf Mal Cha), 10138 points, T:6059, cut down by a green mold warrior 01:17 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 1102 points, 3411 turns, killed by a rope golem 01:21 -!- j has joined #hardfought 01:21 -!- j is now known as Guest72166 01:22 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:24 [EU] [D]: Anerag (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2142 points, 4191 turns, killed by a gnome lord 01:26 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:31 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:34 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:36 hmmm 01:36 i need a silver saber 01:37 [US] [D]: dingotron (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 368 points, 1401 turns, killed by a small mimic 01:39 The watch captain might be nice enough to give you one. 01:41 he didnt 01:41 and i have already polypiled ludios 01:41 ahwell 01:42 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 449 points, 2345 turns, killed by a fox, while frozen by a monster's gaze 01:43 hmm, it seems that i double attack whether i am dual wielding or not, in elvenking form 01:44 so 2x grayswandir hits > grayswandir + saber 01:44 If you're in a form that has lots of weapon attacks... 01:45 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:45 elvenking attacks twice and doesnt hate silver 01:45 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 102 points, 567 turns, killed by a bolt of fire 01:45 any better thoughts? 01:45 aleax maybe 01:55 -!- Guest72166 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:56 Depending on what you're fighting, a master mind flayer may work well, unless you've genocided those. 01:57 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1553 points, 3931 turns, killed by a wolf 01:59 -!- TheGame20 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:02 [US] [D]: mangotiger (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1101 points, 1275 turns, killed by a giant ant (and 2 other games not reported) 02:06 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 306 points, 1835 turns, killed by a giant rat 02:15 <@luxidream> $who 02:15 @luxidream: [EU] Raisse swegen Kontroller Kejchi Anerag | [US] fionna porkman BEHiker91W allanb eraserhead97 dingotron ShivanHunter mangotiger | [AU] No current players 02:15 MMF only has one weapon attack 02:16 but i decided against youpolying that much, it drains your stats like wow 02:17 aleax swings main weapon twice + kicks 02:18 mm 02:19 <@luxidream> aleax is too slow 02:20 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 02:20 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:28 why? 02:28 hm 02:28 how about elvenkings 02:36 hah 02:36 i love detect treasure 02:36 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 6974 points, 5816 turns, killed by a soldier ant, while unconscious from rotten food 02:36 ! 02:36 !gt a 02:37 Go team %! 02:42 -!- eraserhead97 has joined #hardfought 02:44 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 4732 points, 5949 turns, killed by a mumak 02:46 !gt q 02:47 I still find it odd that titanotheres are much higher level than mumakil despite being significantly less dangerous. 02:48 if cockatrices are genocided, can eggs exist? :) 02:48 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:52 They exist and can still petrify things, but will never hatch 02:56 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:59 there was also a tin of c meat somewhere 02:59 wonder what happens if i go find it and open it 03:01 [hdf-us] [slex] Sanae (Kni Dwa Fem Neu), 328 points, T:482, killed by a monster (ettin mummy) 03:02 tin of chicken meat? mmm... mmm... good 03:09 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 10153 points, 6020 turns, killed by an invisible stalker (and 2 other games not reported) 03:18 [hdf-us] [slex] Sanae (Yau Spi Fem Cha), 1089 points, T:392, killed by a monster (tiny pseudodragon), while panic digging 03:21 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1683 points, 1973 turns, killed by a gnome (and 27 other games not reported) 03:22 -!- truculent has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:27 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1052 points, 1572 turns, killed by a hill orc (and 28 other games not reported) 03:27 ok - that was very strange - while trying to kill Rodney in his tower, he double-troubled - I must've zapped him 2-3 times - I teleported to VS level and he followed as a trapper - after I zapped him again, he dropped an Amulet of Yendor - I tested it by putting it into the BoH - was a fake - first time I've seen him carry a fake one 03:27 he does it sometimes 03:27 the sneaky bastard 03:27 hehehe 03:28 what really would be strange would be if that was the real one :P 03:28 (grammar?) 03:28 <@ShivanHunter> double trouble has I thiiiink a 1/2 chance of haveing a fake " 03:28 <@ShivanHunter> lol 03:28 yeah - that freaked me out - got me all excited that it WAS the real one 03:30 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 144 points, 494 turns, killed by a goblin (and 22 other games not reported) 03:31 -!- ruffni has joined #hardfought 03:34 I look the FOOL floating over the Sanctum's lava moat with a stethoscope listening for the entrance 8^P (no wand this game) 03:38 [EU] [D]: arckex (Pri-Hum-Fem-Neu), 228 points, 1008 turns, killed by a magic missile 03:44 mysterious force + double-trouble is going to kill me this game - I only have 1 WoD 03:45 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 03:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 03:46 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 03:53 [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 187 points, 512 turns, killed by a gnome lord 03:54 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1562 points, 1914 turns, killed by a gold golem (and 16 other games not reported) 03:54 eraserhead97, lava moat? 03:54 oh this is probably not vanilla 03:55 it's vanilla - I meant the lava around Sactum Priest's room 03:56 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 145 points, 262 turns, killed by a newt (and 11 other games not reported) 03:56 its not lava :P 03:56 fire traps 03:57 you are fine without levitation 03:58 ah - I never made the distinction! only lava needs levitation? I get confused - which one can you walk with fireproof waterwalking boots? 03:59 I just remember getting my feet stuck in, what I think was lava, once... 03:59 a fire trap is just a trap that burns you with fire 03:59 which is relatively harmless when you have fire resistance 04:00 its like a monster zapping /oFire at you 04:00 eraserhead97, remember that you can use the Bell of Opening to find the door if it still has charges. 04:00 (side note: if you don't have fire resistance, it will reduce your maxhp, therefore its almost imperative that you enter gehennom with fire resistance) 04:01 -!- ruffni has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01 @Andrio ah - thx for tip - forgot about that! 04:02 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 521 points, 801 turns, killed by a crossbow bolt (and 53 other games not reported) 04:07 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 88466 points, T:22251, killed by a bolt of fire 04:08 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 549 points, 1375 turns, killed by a dwarf (and 7 other games not reported) 04:13 I'm having real trouble with this run - at Dlvl:35 and lost Bell of Opening, Book of the Dead, Eye, and MKoT to double-trouble... WoD is spent so my only hope is to reach < before they do 04:13 -!- Xjs has joined #hardfought 04:18 [US] [D]: Wolfechu (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1694 points, 7844 turns, killed by a gnome, while sleeping 04:19 oh that soudns terrible 04:19 No wishes? 04:19 Do you have teleport control? 04:22 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought 04:25 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:25 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 04:25 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 04:25 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 04:27 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 357 points, T:935, killed by a gnome lord 04:38 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 3000 points, 4267 turns, killed by a rope golem 04:42 out of wishes, I have MKoT for TC - on Water now... 04:44 [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 750 points, 1312 turns, killed by a hobgoblin 04:45 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:50 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:54 DAMN - that was a tough one 04:55 Killed Rodney 11 times 8^P 04:55 the way the mysterious force was on my ass, it certainly didn't feel like chaotic to me 04:56 [US] [A]: eraserhead97 (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 1357270 points, 35434 turns, ascended 04:56 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/e/eraserhead97/tnnt/dumplog/1573377835.tnnt.html 04:56 Congrats! 04:58 ty ^^ 04:59 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 05:00 rgats 05:00 [US] [Q]: BEHiker91W (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 14015 points, 44044 turns, quit (and 6 other games not reported) 05:02 Silly high priests getting cursed weapons. 05:02 [EU] [D]: gargor (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 175 points, 628 turns, killed by a crossbow bolt 05:07 @stennowork ty ^^ 05:10 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 9978 points, 7643 turns, killed by a chameleon imitating a mastodon 05:12 -!- Guest72166 has joined #hardfought 05:12 -!- Guest72166 is now known as rebatela 05:13 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 218 points, 492 turns, killed by a hobbit (and 19 other games not reported) 05:14 <@bubbles> Gg again eraserhead97!! 05:18 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 536 points, 969 turns, killed by a rothe (and 9 other games not reported) 05:22 [EU] [D]: mmj (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 331 points, 1518 turns, killed by a giant bat 05:23 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 371 points, 933 turns, killed by a cave spider (and 12 other games not reported) 05:25 [EU] [D]: mmj (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 58 points, 159 turns, killed by a jackal 05:29 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 510 points, 1280 turns, killed by a wererat (and 72 other games not reported) 05:37 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1458 points, 1723 turns, killed by a Mordor orc (and 62 other games not reported) 05:41 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 290 points, 578 turns, killed by a bolt of fire (and 68 other games not reported) 05:41 [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 1918 points, 2946 turns, killed by a soldier ant 05:41 -!- eraserhead97 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1446 points, 2654 turns, killed by a hill orc 05:43 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 308 points, 808 turns, killed by a little dog, while sleeping 05:47 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 346 points, 949 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion 05:49 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1538 points, 1753 turns, killed by a giant ant (and 7 other games not reported) 05:52 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 170 points, 350 turns, killed by a jackal, while sleeping (and 15 other games not reported) 05:58 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1740 points, 2076 turns, killed by a rothe (and one other game not reported) 06:06 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 485 points, 974 turns, killed by a paper golem (and 59 other games not reported) 06:11 -!- merleke has joined #hardfought 06:12 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 116 points, 279 turns, killed by a wand 06:12 <@bubbles> K2 what % of games played in tnnt are shivan's? 06:13 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3877 points, 4716 turns, killed by a soldier ant 06:24 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 06:26 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2849 points, 4319 turns, killed by a watch captain (and 5 other games not reported) 06:31 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1494 points, 1546 turns, killed by a giant mimic 06:31 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 721 points, 1432 turns, killed by a kobold mummy (and 2 other games not reported) 06:45 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:48 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 865 points, 2315 turns, killed by a gnome 06:51 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:53 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 212 points, 631 turns, killed by a gecko 06:58 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought 07:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-11 12:00 UTC: Games: 1701, Asc: 2, Scum: 1571. 578537 turns, 6471190 points. 7d 04:11 gametime. (65%Wiz), (43%Hum), (50%Cha), (76%Mal), 19d 11:59 remaining. 07:02 [EU] [D]: Merlek (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 2900 points, 2818 turns, killed by a werewolf 07:05 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 466 points, 1227 turns, killed by a water moccasin 07:09 [hdf-us] [nh13d] treacle (Arc Mal), 58 points, T:176, leprechaun 07:16 -!- spontiff has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 07:18 @bubbles @ShivanHunter has currently played 9374 games, 9117 of which are scummed 07:18 https://www.hardfought.org/tnnt/players/ShivanHunter.html 07:20 <@ShivanHunter> looks around shiftily 07:20 <_< >_> 07:20 @ShivanHunter what are you scumming for? 07:20 it's obviously not a 12 conducts game. that would need much more scumming ... 07:21 <@ShivanHunter> well it's 20 conducts but like that indcludes all the TNNT stuff and 3.6.* stuff 07:21 chriss67 took 100k scummed games 07:21 but still didn't succeed 07:21 he did, however, find a wow on turn:0 on one occasion 07:21 <@ShivanHunter> yeah it's not pacifist or zen or the super hard ones 07:21 <@ShivanHunter> foodless atheist is the biggie 07:21 <@ShivanHunter> lol 07:22 chriss67? are you confusing him with Tyr or was that a separate attempt? 07:22 that was the cs12 account of chriss67 07:22 i think its still by far the account with the most games on NAO 07:22 !gamesby takes several seconds for rodders 07:23 <Rodney> cs12 has played 277011 games, between 20120508 and 20131023, highest score 1149395, ascended 1, died 54, quit 51, escaped 276905 times 07:23 the one ascended game was aformentioned t:0 wow 07:24 <@ShivanHunter> well when you get a T:0 WoW you gotta go with it 07:24 <@ShivanHunter> :D 07:24 i think this is downvoted because the reference was lost https://nhqdb.alt.org/?123 07:24 @ShivanHunter or not? where's the challenge in that? :-) 07:24 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:25 <@bubbles> Soon you can scum bubblehack 👌🏻 07:25 <@bubbles> I got portals working this morning 07:25 <@bubbles> So I guess I can put the game start and win condition in 07:26 <@bubbles> Then move onto dungeon generation and monsters 07:27 @shivanHunter so you are scumming for =oSD, magic marker, +oID? 07:27 https://junethack.net/archive/2012/user/iopdude.html 07:27 anything else? 07:27 90 Games Played | 149568 Games Start Scummed 07:27 Int:20 07:27 haha 07:27 didn't even get an ascension in 07:28 but yeah it seems that scumming 150k-200k still is not good enough for a successful 12-conduct run 07:28 <@ShivanHunter> =oSD and scare tool are the bare minimum I look for. And I'll throw away a char if there's NOTHING else good. also helpful is any polymorph item/polycontrol or a marker, or a good spell (Identify is actually great since there's no guarantee you'll find it in the game otherwise) 07:29 <@ShivanHunter> All the few-thousand-turn deaths are some rushed play just scrounging for items and shops on the first few levels since you usually get an inventory's worth of items there too 07:31 <@bubbles> Shivan did you hear my tentative thoughts on making start scumming impossible? 07:31 <@ShivanHunter> don't think so! 07:31 <@bubbles> Basically before you enter the dungeon you have access to a mall 07:31 <@ShivanHunter> ah 07:31 <@bubbles> And depending on role race you start with some currency 07:31 <@ShivanHunter> lots of early RPGs had you buy items during character creation 07:31 <@bubbles> Not zk 07:31 <@bubbles> Because price:goodness is pretty meaningless 07:31 <@bubbles> Yeah 07:32 <@bubbles> But it would mean if you want to do specific things you can but might have to sacrifice something else 07:32 <@ShivanHunter> yeah it's a good system. Not sure it'd quite work for nethack - there's LOTS of items to pick from, especially for wizards, and the randomness (for normal play) is part of the point of wiz 07:33 <@bubbles> I'm actually quite tempted to make role and race selection in game as well 07:33 <@bubbles> Sure, can always go for random additions to the load out, 07:34 <@bubbles> So you could still start scum 07:34 <@ShivanHunter> An interesting choice might be to have the "shop" contents somewhat random, but not as random as (say) NH wiz inventory 07:34 <@bubbles> But if you're not going for total madness the controlled start would be good 07:34 <@bubbles> Yeah definitely 07:34 <{Demo}> weird idea 07:34 <@bubbles> So you'd always get +fb +heal 07:35 <{Demo}> based on name, you have fixed random starting inventory 07:35 <@bubbles> Ah as the seed? 07:35 <{Demo}> and until you go further than 200 or so turns you don't get to reroll 07:35 <{Demo}> no 07:35 <{Demo}> this is seed independent 07:35 <@ShivanHunter> hmmm 07:35 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:35 <@bubbles> People would just script 200s 07:35 <{Demo}> your start items are saved 07:35 <@bubbles> Or whatever 07:36 <{Demo}> yeah 200s might not be the best 07:36 <{Demo}> maybe 200 s, kill x monsters, reach x xlvl 07:36 <@bubbles> Yeah 07:36 <{Demo}> it would highly become not worth it 07:36 <@bubbles> But then start scumming isn't really affecting anything. I want to incentive not doing it 07:36 <@bubbles> Rather than penalising 07:36 <@bubbles> But might make it a startup option 07:37 <@bubbles> One of the big points of starting coding from scratch is trying new shit is a lot easier for me 07:37 <@bubbles> So if startmall doesn't work it's no biggie 07:38 <@ShivanHunter> so you're working on your own roguelike? 07:39 <@bubbles> https://github.com/bubblehack/bubblehack/tree/master/src 07:39 <@bubbles> Yeah 07:39 [EU] [D]: arckex (Pri-Hum-Fem-Neu), 587 points, 1291 turns, killed by a wererat 07:39 <@ShivanHunter> cool! 07:40 DCSS (sorry) gets rid of startscumming partly by making a given species/role combo always start with identical stats and kit (wildly incompatible with NH wizards), starting you in one of a wide selection of fixed starting vaults (have to play some turns to find out if this game is lucky, not just look for a great item in the first room) but mostly by having very good players focus on winrate not 07:40 conducts... which, getting back to NetHack, is I fear the only way to eliminate startscumming. 07:40 <@ShivanHunter> I've had that idea myself, but I'll I've gotten so far is several (different) half-baked design docs and a C++ project with basic caves and LOS 07:41 <@bubbles> Feel free too steal at any point 07:41 <@bubbles> To 07:41 <@bubbles> I think I'm happy with how items are shapinh out 07:41 <@bubbles> It's all component based 07:41 <@ShivanHunter> the problem with focusing on winrate, specifically for NH, is that NH's endgame is boring as fuck 07:41 <@bubbles> Dnh ❤️ 07:41 Well, yeah, I don't see how you get there from here. :-/ 07:41 <@ShivanHunter> and conducts generally make it more fun (that Astral splat from earlier was as tense as my first ascension) 07:42 <@bubbles> Pink from where to where? 07:42 From here - startscumming strongly incentivised - to where we'd (presumably?) like to be - startscumming pointless. 07:42 <@bubbles> By trying out different things 07:42 <@bubbles> I guess 07:43 <@bubbles> It's not the biggest problem I don't think 07:43 Not to be _all_ theorycrafting but I think reasoning about them beforehand doesn't hurt - like I can see above that doing the two things DCSS does doesn't _help_ if the player focus is unchanged. 07:44 Conducts could be improved (from a startscumming POV) by (a radical change) enforcing them from game start - it then becomes "what proportion of foodless atheist games can I win?" 07:44 <@bubbles> Conduct is definitely a good one 07:44 <@bubbles> I think slex has something like that 07:45 [EU] [D]: arckex (Pri-Hum-Fem-Neu), 108 points, 169 turns, killed by a falling rock 07:45 <@bubbles> Choosing a certain name forces eg perma blindness 07:45 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 07:45 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1469 points, 1229 turns, killed by a magic missile 07:46 I'd go slightly laxer in that you can break the conduct, but it'll still count as a loss in your "foodless" stats, you just get to finish the game. 07:46 (But you break it with explicit confirmation, not by UI screw...) 07:47 <@bubbles> Ahhh yes 07:47 <@bubbles> "What conducts would you like too attempt?" During character creation 07:48 I don't see that anything can be done about speedrunning - someone trying to minimise turncount is always incentivised to check D:1 for superb drops and quit if they aren't there. 07:48 -!- hdf-guest-42 has joined #hardfought 07:48 -!- hdf-guest-42 has left #hardfought 07:48 <@bubbles> Also thoughts on character c creation being done in game? 07:49 <@bubbles> Just a gimmick? 07:49 It works in Angband 07:50 <@bubbles> I thought you selected from a menu? 07:50 <@ShivanHunter> thrown bags of holding protect their contents from breaking, right? 07:50 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 5266 points, 6607 turns, killed by an ettin mummy 07:51 I think I've misunderstood just what bits you want done "in game" (an odd expression since it's all "in game") 07:53 <@bubbles> Like you would have a room with portals 07:53 <@bubbles> One way 07:53 <@bubbles> But it's probably ginnicky 07:53 In all candour that sounds both gimmicky and annoying 07:53 <@bubbles> Yeah probably 07:54 <@bubbles> Candour is fine! 07:54 <@bubbles> Good 07:54 <@bubbles> I only have one race role at the moment 07:54 <@bubbles> I'm probably going to not do more races for a while. Differentiation is pretty weak 07:54 What I was thinking of is how in Angband you start with some gold and run around the town buying your initial equipment, rather than (say) being issued it NetHack-style or selecting a weapon in character creation DCSS-style. 07:55 (FWIW modern Angband is busy eliminating warts like this and it may no longer be true) 07:55 <@bubbles> Ah yeah I am defo doing that 07:55 <@bubbles> Though not gold bit some other currency 07:55 <{Demo}> newt eyes 07:56 <@bubbles> Could add a shopkeeper called Mr. Star tzkum err 07:56 <@bubbles> Who stocks totally random stuff 07:56 The old Omega roguelike took it further in that you select which guilds to join "in-game" in this sense, which is about as close to picking a character class as Omega gets 07:56 Or having to actually find an altar in DCSS to pick a god. 07:57 (which is not just a pointless wart because you might die getting there, so do you take the god who's right here or the one you really want?) 07:58 POWDER as well where at every level-up you pick a god which kind of determines your character class for the next experience level 07:59 <@bubbles> My original vision was a hub world that would evolve throughout the game 07:59 <@bubbles> I will tyupe this up on pastebin actually so as not to spam too much 07:59 <@bubbles> gimme a min 07:59 -!- bebing has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:00 I've got to go out for a few minutes anyway... but I think I feel in general that if something like this is, like the Angband equipment buying, like doing it from a menu but fiddly, just make it a menu. :-/ 08:03 [US] [D]: shadowcat (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 319 points, 1354 turns, killed by a hobbit 08:04 i have some ideas about scumming and making it not worth doing for next years tnnt 08:04 i've been back and forth on the idea 08:05 but now seeing 12000+ games out of 15000 being scummed, it makes me want to address it somehow 08:05 K2: As the server operator you have the Technical Thug option of rate-limiting game starts :-) 08:06 i could, but so far it hasnt been an issue resource-wise 08:06 not like running a bot would 08:06 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 289 points, 362 turns, killed by a giant mimic 08:06 Sure, but it would stop startscumming. (Or give a quota of game starts per month - high enough that no nonscumming player is near it.) 08:06 so here's my current take: 08:07 start scumming and nethack pretty go hand in hand 08:07 its 'nethacky' if that makes any sense 08:07 i also dont have time to sit and monitor server usage and try to police excessive start scumming 08:08 and another thing - a bit of start scumming isnt necessarily a bad thing depending on your criteria 08:08 [US] [D]: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 249 points, 768 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion 08:08 so here' smy idea 08:08 (I'm not saying you _should_ do these things, merely that they are things you could do which would limit startscumming) 08:09 each player would be allowed x number of start scummed games. once that threshold is reached, it becomes detremental to continue doing so 08:09 [US] [D]: ansic (Ran-Hum-Fem-Neu), 676 points, 3017 turns, killed by Mr. Angmagssalik; the shopkeeper (and 2 other games not reported) 08:09 say, lose one point per scummed game after is exceeded 08:10 make it so the juice isnt worth the squeeze 08:10 [US] [D]: ansic (Ran-Hum-Fem-Neu), 4 points, 183 turns, killed by a little dog called Sirius 08:10 i get it if you roll a shitty character and want to start a new one right away 08:11 but waking up to 12000+ scummed games out of 15000 total does not make me happy 08:11 silly In:12 wizards 08:11 whats the word i'm looking for... 'excessive' 08:12 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 7687 points, 8737 turns, killed by a soldier ant 08:16 anyways 08:16 this is stuff the tnnt dev team needs to go over and discuss 08:16 i'm sure there are differing views on the subject 08:17 <@ShivanHunter> Speaking as the primary source of the problem ;P - the point system you mentioned definitely seems fair to me 08:21 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 526 points, 1093 turns, killed by a purple worm 08:21 ha. 10000 start scummed games 08:21 can't your tiny whiny server cope with that? 08:21 junethack had to cope with >100k start scummed games 08:22 I remember the incredulous look on Pinkbeast's face when I gave that talk at IRDC :-) 08:22 no hdf cant handle all those scummed game errmahgerd 08:22 :) 08:23 and junethack didnt have to 'cope' with anything, i hear the tournament admin doesnt give two shits about things like that. or team limits. or bots playing on human teams/human accounts :) 08:25 IIRC at that time it was NAO that had to take most of the heat. 08:25 but nevertheless we had to adjust the code to cope with this many games. in the beginning it produced the games faster than we could process them :-D 08:25 hah 08:28 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:30 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 22 points, 117 turns, killed by a system shock (and one other game not reported) 08:30 <@bubbles> None of this is what I WANT to do, it's just what I imagined I would do: https://qbin.io/ent-robert-4ii8 08:32 <@bubbles> Would very much love comments/thoughts and don't hold back, a lot of this is probably nonsense 08:33 neat 08:33 i like the backstory 08:34 Andrio: or healers with only 4 Pw so they can't cast healing to save their life 08:35 <@bubbles> Defo want to keep it forgotten realmsy 08:38 @bubbles it looks good so far 08:38 only real way to know of course is to get a beta out for ppl to play 08:40 ADE was a beast of a dedicated server though 08:40 what were the specs 08:40 don't remember 08:40 i became really depressed during that time so my memory is a bit hazy 08:40 :/ 08:41 i just remember that it was a resource hog for most of the time 08:41 i think kerio used it to crack some encryption or so 08:41 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 6020 points, 5884 turns, killed by an ochre jelly 08:41 er i mean 08:42 that most of its resources were idle most of the time 08:42 the four cores on hdf-us are fine, even during tournament times 08:42 i would like more RAM though 08:43 fair amount of sql processes running for the web part 08:43 hdf scoreboard, etc 08:43 <@bubbles> yeppers 08:43 volume is an SSD array so file read/writes are not a concern 08:43 i am sure that we had way way more cores 08:44 about i'd guess 64 GB ram 08:44 original hdf-us was 8 core 08:44 that was the bare metal box in my basement :P 08:45 but AWS has a bursting feature, if the server needs more horsepower for whatever reason, it kicks in 08:45 it has never had to as far as I know 08:47 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 145 points, 1006 turns, killed by a giant mimic 08:47 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 08:48 for a very brief moment, I once thought about letting altars be generated with gods from all roles. then I wondered how I would differentiate those gods or even just how to differentiate altar of the same alignment but different gods than the player? 08:51 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:54 i heard there is That Other Roguelike that does something like that 08:55 oh just according to display? 08:58 <@bubbles> Bhaak I think prayer aligment and the pool of boons they grant. Like if you have several fire aligned branches you may want to take a God who likes to grant anti fire boons 09:00 [US] [D]: pur (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 666 points, 1746 turns, killed by a wererat 09:01 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 09:01 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 09:01 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 09:02 stennowork: no, gameplay related. That Other Roguelikes does it in a great way but I don't think that would be fitting into NetHack 09:03 fair 09:03 <@bubbles> That other roguelike? 09:03 @bubbles but aren't there to few fire boons possible in the game? I mean fire resistance is easy to come by. what else? scroll or potion protected from fire? 09:03 the roguelike that shall not be mentioned :P 09:04 <@bubbles> Bhaak read the document. Resistances will be a lot more sparse 09:04 <@bubbles> And mostly temporary 09:05 <@bubbles> Double damage versus fire aligned monsters. Warning. Half fire damage taken. Fire walking. Etc 09:05 <@bubbles> Re boons 09:06 <@bubbles> Turn fire (like turn undead) 09:12 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 3962 points, 8282 turns, killed by a wumpus 09:12 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 128 points, 746 turns, killed by a bear trap 09:14 [US] [D]: tinklebear (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 656 points, 1637 turns, poisoned by a rabid rat (and one other game not reported) 09:20 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 09:20 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 908 points, 4069 turns, killed by a large kobold, while fainted from lack of food 09:23 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 6009 points, 3386 turns, killed by a mumak 09:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2004 09:29 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 591 points, 1290 turns, killed by a giant rat, while reading a book 09:38 -!- jannis has joined #hardfought 09:39 -!- Xjs has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:39 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Hum Fem Law), 1947 points, T:2213, killed by a gnome lord 09:43 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 44 points, 163 turns, killed by a boiling potion 09:44 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:45 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 36 points, 233 turns, killed by a water moccasin 09:46 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 56 points, 374 turns, killed by a fox 09:47 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 09:48 [US] [D]: allanb (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 150 points, 385 turns, killed by a coyote 09:56 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:08 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1034 points, 2326 turns, killed by a giant mimic 10:15 <@luxidream> K2: scumming was never the problem 10:16 <@luxidream> there’s a weakness in the scoring system, yes, but it’s also exploitable without scumming 10:23 <@luxidream> in case you didn’t notice, the vast majority of scum games are coming from SH’s script 10:25 -!- joes has joined #hardfought 10:30 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3606 points, 5713 turns, killed by a gnome mummy 10:31 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 10:31 <@luxidream> It also kills conduct and speedrun play that requires some level of scumming, for example, a turncount speedrun is preferential to a scare tool and part of a polyself kit 10:32 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:35 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:37 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 10:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 10:38 $lastgame bouquet 10:38 bouquet: [US] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/tnnt/dumplog/1573446954.tnnt.html 10:39 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 10:39 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 10:39 . 10:40