00:01 [hdf-us] [slex] dolores (Alt Ang Fem Cha), 50286 points, T:7615, killed by a monster (cement unicorn) 00:09 [US] [D]: EndlessMike (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 294 points, 1194 turns, killed by Ms. Bandjar; the shopkeeper 00:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible high priest of Moloch, on T:90504 00:18 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:90506 00:22 [US] [A]: IceBox (Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha), 1956738 points, 69089 turns, ascended (and 10 other games not reported) 00:23 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/I/IceBox/tnnt/dumplog/1573047673.tnnt.html 00:26 [US] BEHiker91W has 100 consecutive games less than 100 turns. 00:42 <@IceBox> lol is this calling out scumming in real time or something ^ 00:47 [US] [D]: larry (Arc-Dwa-Mal-Law), 592 points, 3458 turns, killed by a warg 00:57 [US] [A]: thegame (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 2954565 points, 57002 turns, ascended 00:57 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/t/thegame/tnnt/dumplog/1572914319.tnnt.html 01:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-08 06:00 UTC: Games: 626, Asc: 7, Scum: 569. 493297 turns, 14907196 points. 5d 12:03 gametime. (60%Wiz), (47%Elf), (60%Cha), (77%Mal), 22d 17:59 remaining. 01:03 [US] [D]: BEHiker91W (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 181 points, 681 turns, killed by a coyote (and 25 other games not reported) 01:09 -!- eLtMosen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:10 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:28 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 12889 points, 7815 turns, killed by a flaming sphere (and 63 other games not reported) 01:30 [US] [D]: dbanethacker (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 1121 points, 1560 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted kitten 01:32 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:32 [US] [D]: IceBox (Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha), 5124 points, 2725 turns, killed by a sewer rat, while praying 01:43 [US] [D]: thegame (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 546 points, 1581 turns, poisoned by a rabid rat 01:45 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 1061 points, 2987 turns, killed by a rothe 01:48 [US] [D]: IceBox (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 377 points, 464 turns, killed by a bat (and 7 other games not reported) 01:55 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 01:55 -!- TheGame20 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:55 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:01 <@mewpants> How evil would it be to make every monster a horror? Ie randomise stats and attacks every game 02:01 <@mewpants> Probably within racial and class bound 02:05 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 16063 points, 14411 turns, killed by a dwarf, while frozen by a monster's gaze 02:06 [US] [D]: IceBox (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2438 points, 2594 turns, killed by a bolt of cold (and 32 other games not reported) 02:07 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 9 points, 140 turns, killed by an arrow 02:09 [AU] [D]: djm2000 (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 278 points, 1498 turns, killed by an iguana, while frozen by a monster's gaze 02:09 TOURNAMENT MILESTONE: Ten million turns played. 02:12 <@mewpants> TEN MILLION 02:12 <@mewpants> \o/ 02:12 <@mewpants> !beer K2 02:12 @mewpants: Burrrrp! 02:12 <@mewpants> One day I will know how to work this botbot 02:13 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought 02:14 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 3591 points, 3213 turns, petrified by a chickatrice (and 29 other games not reported) 02:14 <@ShivanHunter> oh god dammit 02:19 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 31 points, 119 turns, killed by a Kop Sergeant (and 29 other games not reported) 02:19 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:22 <@mewpants> pat pat 02:24 [US] [D]: IceBox (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 664 points, 1037 turns, killed by a wererat (and 2 other games not reported) 02:34 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 3143 points, 2078 turns, killed by a gnome king (and one other game not reported) 02:35 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2755 points, 4550 turns, killed by a dwarf king 02:38 -!- tonehack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:38 [US] [A]: WizardOfPoland (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Law), 1558995 points, 63928 turns, ascended 02:38 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/W/WizardOfPoland/tnnt/dumplog/1572724326.tnnt.html 02:43 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:44 -!- truculent has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:53 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 3249 points, 4712 turns, poisoned by a quasit 02:54 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2152 points, 3024 turns, killed by a guardian naga hatchling (and 70 other games not reported) 02:59 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 3 points, 118 turns, killed by a fire giant (and 65 other games not reported) 03:03 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 162 points, 189 turns, killed by a scorpion (and 27 other games not reported) 03:10 [hdf-us] [slex] Sanae (Mon Kha Fem Law), 6701 points, T:2235, killed by a monster (fragment) 03:12 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 754 points, 1975 turns, killed by a kobold lord 03:16 <@ShivanHunter> bollocks 03:17 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1842 points, 2068 turns, killed by a bolt of fire (and 22 other games not reported) 03:20 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 03:20 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 03:23 <@ShivanHunter> lol when deafness times out but you have permadeaf, it says "You are unable to hear anything" 03:23 <@ShivanHunter> ...I know lol 03:24 <@mewpants> 😦 03:24 <@mewpants> poor deaf shivshiv 03:24 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Mon Dwa Fem Neu) just blew up her bag of holding, on T:18597 03:28 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:30 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 106 points, 348 turns, killed by a sewer rat 03:31 lol someone said in a reddit thread that price ID is an anti-frustration feature... I rather view it as a frustration feature, in that you have to do such a tedious thing if you want to have a chance 03:33 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:35 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:37 what is the line of thought here? 03:37 bhaak: context: https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/dt5ktt/is_nethack_an_acquired_taste/f6ustpz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x 03:37 instead of being frustrated not knowing what your item is, you can price-id it and dispel the frustration? 03:38 oh, I saw the title but haven't read the thread yet 03:38 oh you mean my line of reasoning, well you have to pick up each item in the shop and name it something like "KERNOD cost 300" and drop each of yours and name them "THARR sell 50" and then look at the list to see which ones it could be 03:38 very tedious, and you'd have to do it every. single. game. 03:38 The people who worked this out in 1980 were pretty awesome by virtue of being timelords 03:38 lol, "In 1980 people actually managed to figure this stuff out on their own [...] but as I said they had little else as far as video games were concerned" 03:39 yeah, people in the past had so much more time 03:39 proven by the simple fact that there is much more past than there is present 03:39 Particularly impressive since no-one had invented straight-up grind in games yet 03:39 nice one bhaak 03:39 <@mewpants> Amy agreed price id is annoying 03:39 <@mewpants> But really hard to get round 03:40 * stenno only price-ids scrolls and rings 03:40 <@mewpants> I price-id books to see if they are "hard" or not 03:40 also impressive that 1980 neither nethack nor hack existed yet 03:40 <@mewpants> And boots/gloves 03:40 <@mewpants> Amy also somewhat dnh-U-inspired slex-gamestart-inspired: I was thinking of randomising ALL monster stats every game 03:41 I only price-ID books, scrolls for ID, and water. Oh, and lamps. But not the whole lot, even if I wrote it all down. 03:41 <@mewpants> Within reason 03:41 bhaak: Beat you to it, with "timelords" 03:41 <@mewpants> I really only do ?ofIdentity/Weapon/Light 03:41 <@mewpants> But I am a terrible player so 03:41 well i am ignoring those one-of IDs like lamps or boots 03:41 <@mewpants> yeah 03:42 actually, i don't price-id boots really 03:42 i just see if they are cursed and if not, i wear them 03:42 mewpants: well in slex price ID was simply abolished outright and I have never missed it 03:42 if they are speed boots i am happy (and they auto-id), otherwise i don't really care 03:42 test for jumping, done 03:42 i think Hot_As_Milk has it mostly right. at its heart, after you've been spoiked to death, NetHack is a puzzle game. 03:42 also I saw your "every monster is a horror" idea in the backscroll, I'd like to see how you'll implement it :) 03:42 <@mewpants> True 03:42 LarienTelrunya: Every now and then you come out with a stroke of genius :-) 03:42 Pinkbeast: ? 03:43 Eliminating price-ID 03:43 heh, I know that it's a good idea, but I never felt that anyone else agrees, because if they would, other variants would abolish price ID too (but they don't) 03:43 <@mewpants> Amy e.g. dwarf might be 6 += 3, but if they get slower, they'd get perhaps a heavier hitting attack (or a second attack) to compensate 03:43 <@mewpants> Meaning each game you'd have to far-look a tlot more 03:44 Pinkbeast: it went so far as in a certain player ragequitting slex over the lack of price ID 03:44 having to farlook peaceful is worse grind than price-id 03:44 <@mewpants> stenno peaceful rev ❤ 03:44 mewpants: oh so not fully randomized, but rather "the monster has a pool of points it can distribute to attack, speed or whatever" 03:44 i should write the patch for vt_tiledata for peaceful 03:44 <@mewpants> And hopefully making areas consistent, e.g. mines being lightning-biased means a. doing things in a different order depending on the game, also meaning having to read some of the lore so you are fore-warned 03:45 then again i am a slacker 03:45 but it should be very very straightforward 03:45 true randomness would allow for e.g. a dwarf that is both fast and hard-hitting, or a dwarf that is slow and does little damage :P 03:45 <@mewpants> Points based yeah 03:45 stenno: in slex there is a property (can be on items or also be acquired intrinsically) that highlights peaceful monsters 03:45 <@mewpants> And use rne to roll for bonus points 03:46 LarienTelrunya: sounds good 03:46 similar to nh4-like 03:46 and xnethack has it too 03:46 <@mewpants> So it would be possible to get a dwarf both fast and hard hitting 03:46 <@mewpants> But less likely 03:46 LarienTelrunya: have you added anything that replaces price-id? I added simpler and automatic ways of id engraving, rings dropping down the sink or making read id of scrolls less dangerous 03:46 Or perhaps just highlight peaceful monsters anyway 03:46 Pinkbeast: well have you seen acehack? 03:46 <@mewpants> Ugh, ui work even in nethack is the worst 03:47 with highlit peacefuls it was very... colorful 03:47 * stenno prefers underscore 03:47 stenno: No, but I submit that if the player can inspect every monster to find out if it's peaceful... 03:47 bhaak: well scrolls of standard id exist and are reasonably common, plus identifying rings via sinks has 50% chance of the ring not being lost, but generally I'm also trying to force the player to use-test some items if they want to identify them all 03:47 Pinkbeast: yes, of course 03:48 Pinkbeast: the question is just, how to display that 03:48 [hdf-us] [slex] Sanae (Mon Arg Fem Law), 2235 points, T:1082, killed by a monster (gnome warrior) 03:48 <@mewpants> rev or underscore, either is fine 03:48 its information that _should_ be available on sight 03:48 rev is tame tho 03:48 <@mewpants> Defo agree if you can inspect it should be a game feature not an item feature 03:49 <@mewpants> stenno in dnh blue bg is tame, yelllow bg is peaceful, so not quite rev 03:49 stenno: Well, I don't want to always bore about that _other_ roguelike with Sigmund, but it does seem to have this aspect worked out 03:49 <@mewpants> Or something roughly like that. 03:49 heh, in slex there's a nasty trap that does evil things when you farlook a peaceful (namely, the monster will turn hostile), so I can't simply make peacefuls always highlighted :P 03:49 [EU] [D]: Dins (Arc-Dwa-Mal-Law), 219 points, 893 turns, killed by a small mimic 03:49 LarienTelrunya: UI screw is perhaps not one of your moments of genius :-) 03:50 i wished there was a screenshot of lawful mines of acehack 03:54 <@mewpants> Woo choice list renders properly 🙂 03:54 <@mewpants> Soon I will have an inventory display and then... gasp a second item 03:55 <@mewpants> I think I'll do a ?ofCharging 03:55 <@mewpants> Because that will do stuff with the lantern 03:55 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1526 points, 2360 turns, killed by an Uruk-hai 03:55 -!- eraserhead97 has joined #hardfought 03:56 Pinkbeast: it does serve a purpose though, because it can screw over even players with a full ascension kit (which in vanilla, only Rodney, demon lords and the riders can do, assuming you genoed L, h and semicolon) 03:58 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 9921 points, 5016 turns, killed by an invisible stalker (and one other game not reported) 04:00 say that to the Archonstorm. 04:01 <@mewpants> Archons should have angel-gating 04:01 <@mewpants> Triggered off gaze attack 04:01 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 22 points, 193 turns, killed by a carnivorous bag (and 39 other games not reported) 04:02 heh, since the samurai is the only role that exists in vanilla and is lawful, no archonstorms :P 04:02 huh? 04:02 <@mewpants> "is the only role that exists in vanilla to amy" 04:02 for a lawful, most such summoned archons are peaceful 04:03 so they won't "storm" that much, you just need to kill the originally hostile ones 04:03 <@mewpants> Angelic beings should be able to align to anything 04:03 I wonder about what happens when you wield a stack of weapons and they get corroded 04:04 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:06 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Mon Dwa Fem Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:19552 04:09 LarienTelrunya: it might only be me, but do you also sometimes read allmain.c as alman.c? 04:09 bhaak: no, what's that even supposed to mean? 04:10 is that a schwitzerdütsch word? :P 04:10 no, turkish for German :-) 04:10 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 04:10 ah, well I don't know turkish except for "döner", "yufka" and "kafir" :P 04:11 Ische? 04:11 lol that's a turkish word? I mean I knew it, but not that it was of turkish origin 04:11 oh, it isn't. 04:11 jewish origin 04:12 which one was I thinking of then? 04:12 coffee is also from turkish 04:14 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:15 via turkish I thought but originally arabic or so 04:17 what is? 04:17 <@mewpants> Larien how does slex disambiguate when you have two items with the same 'identifier' in your inventory? 04:17 stenno: coffee 04:17 ah 04:17 yeah i thought coffee came with the moors 04:17 thats why they have it in vienna 04:18 mewpants: what do you mean? the # problem that occurs when you have more than 52 items? 04:18 <@mewpants> yeah 04:18 It doesn't 04:19 IIRC # ends up pointing at the first object with that slot. 04:19 <@mewpants> Ah ok, how does vanilla boh do it? 04:19 <@mewpants> Or does it always show a list 04:19 <@mewpants> tests 04:19 It doesn't assign inventory letters to things inside containers. 04:20 So if you can find a container in Slex, you should probably carry it with you and put excess things into it 04:20 Any container 04:20 <@mewpants> This is from a coding point of view 04:20 <@mewpants> Not a playing one! 04:20 well, inventory letters on things inside containers are ignored altogether 04:21 If you take something out of a container, it gets a new inventory letter if the old one is taken 04:21 what Andrio said. if you have too many items, every new one becomes # in your main inventory and if you want to select them, # either selects the first occurrence of # on the current page or the last item you picked up (depending on menu type). 04:21 <@mewpants> Ah okey 04:21 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 04:21 there was a player (Goreval) who somehow managed to specifically select # items in between others, but I have no idea how he managed that 04:21 <@mewpants> Right you can never specify an item in a bag without going through a menu 04:21 <@mewpants> That makes sense. 04:22 and yes, that means a player managed to do something in slex that even I (the developer) don't know how to do :P 04:22 Did you see it? 04:22 [AU] [D]: ogmobot (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 269 points, 1819 turns, killed by a gnome lord 04:22 <@mewpants> Fyi I am bubbles, but discord usernames bleh 04:22 Andrio: yeah I was watching him at that time, but he didn't tell me how he did it 04:22 mm 04:23 <@PeterQ> You can adjust # to something else, then something else becomes "#" but the last one in line 04:23 <@PeterQ> But if you have 200 "#"s and want to use the very last one, you need to do it 200 times 04:24 yep, that's why I highly recommend slex players to use some sort of container 04:24 <@mewpants> Probbo not going to support >52 items in main invenotry 04:24 alternately there's also the option "knapsacklimit", and then you simply can't pick up items anymore when you already have 52 or more 04:24 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25 LarienTelrunya, was it in an inventory menu? 04:25 <@mewpants> knapsacklimit and everyone starts with a sack 04:25 mewpants: I find that 52 item limit sooooooooo annoying, means you have to do very tedious management if you want to get the most out of scrolls of identify or remove curse. 04:25 <@mewpants> I know knapsacklimit is a gameplay element 04:25 <@mewpants> But it is fucking annoying 04:25 <@mewpants> Remove curse/identify on a bag should just do the items inside it then 04:25 Andrio: don't remember 04:25 <@mewpants> and/or everything 04:26 mm 04:26 <@PeterQ> @mewpants You could always make an alternate accessibility menu which is (for example) accessed by # and uses the order of items on the page to determine shortcuts 04:26 Well, UnNetHack lets you identify things inside containers on an altar. 04:26 also the 52 item limit is ultra annoying in variants where dropping the sack on an altar doesn't BUC-test everything inside 04:26 mm 04:26 <@PeterQ> So for example "a#>a" would be "use the first item on the second page of the inventory" 04:26 <@mewpants> PeterQ that's true 04:27 <@mewpants> Adjust would be annoying 04:27 <@mewpants> I think limit and everyone starts with a sack is a reasonable compromise 04:27 <@mewpants> If I was starting from an already-existing codebase I'd just use that 04:27 of course in slex, dropping a container on an altar doesn't BUC-test everything inside because in slex the altar can vanish and the chance is per item, which would be annoying to code and detrimental gameplay-wise because why would you want to know the BUC of every gem inside your sack if each would also mean another chance of the altar 04:27 disappearing? 04:28 <@mewpants> But I'm coding from scratch so the inventory stuff is a potential rabbit hole I don't care much to go down 04:29 <@PeterQ> @LarienTelrunya I tried using containers. Lost like 90% of my items to one in one run, including very decent gear 04:30 PeterQ: huh, how did that happen? did a nymph steal the container? 04:30 <@PeterQ> No, it was one of those item-eating containers 04:30 <@PeterQ> A bag to be more precise 04:30 ah, well that's basically one of slex's newbie traps, containers that could be digestion should always be tested before you put everything inside :P 04:31 <@PeterQ> Well, but nobody knows bags of digestion exist before they encounter one 04:31 <@mewpants> That's the slex magic! 04:31 or put rocks inside 04:31 Same with unknown bags of holding 04:32 PeterQ: in vanilla, nobody knows that wands of cancellation blow up bags of holding either unless they spoil themselves or suffer the loss of their bag at least once :D 04:32 <@mewpants> EPI: Every time you open a BoH there is a chance a monster from the alternate dimension appears. 04:33 It'd have to be something like a shambling horror 04:33 <@PeterQ> Yes, but spoilers for vanilla exist 😛 04:33 spoilers for slex exist too, I admit the ones on the wiki are limited but there's always the source, which is a full spoiler library 04:33 how do you think Tariru managed to do his streak? 04:34 Don't die. 04:34 <@PeterQ> I thought he spent 3 months of code-diving before even starting up the game 04:35 well he definitely code-dived a lot while playing 04:35 [AU] [D]: ogmobot (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 372 points, 1440 turns, killed by a jaguar 04:36 How would it be if there was a change whereby you can wield a stack of daggers and attack acib dlobs, rust monsters, etc. and it'll only damage one of them? 04:37 Andrio: in slex I made it so that the bigger the stack is, the lower the chance that erosion affects them 04:37 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37 -!- spontiff has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37 this feels like the right thing to me and prevents the headache from having to make the code split off that one corroded dagger from the rest of the stack :P 04:39 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 04:40 Not bad, yeah. 04:40 [hdf-us] [un] Sanae (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the ghost of Artorias, the former Acolyte, on T:1724 04:42 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 751 points, 4094 turns, killed by a coyote 04:42 <@mewpants> I love the fact that 50% of nethacks code is just working around linked lists. 04:42 mm 04:42 Well, there are a lot of those. 04:42 Which kind of makes sense. 04:42 [hdf-us] [un] Sanae (Val Hum Fem Law), 2726 points, T:1757, killed by a Woodland-elf 04:43 <@mewpants> linked lists do not make sense 04:43 <@mewpants> (anymore) 04:43 Until you get to the weirdness with statue traps. 04:44 <@mewpants> I mean look at half of invent.c 04:45 <@mewpants> Instead of saying "is there an item at this otmp->invlet", it loops over the items 04:45 <@mewpants> 😕 04:45 [EU] [D]: arckex (Pri-Hum-Fem-Neu), 170 points, 654 turns, killed by a gnome lord 04:46 [AU] [D]: ogmobot (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 320 points, 1119 turns, killed by a magic missile 04:48 mm 04:48 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 04:58 <@mewpants> I find it weird that in some ways the code is really "optimized", but then an array of 52 bools is used instead of a uint64_t bitfield. 04:58 <@mewpants> shrug 04:59 lots of different people touched the code, with different tastes and skills 05:00 historically, a 64 bit bitfield was probably not supported by all official platforms. 05:02 <@mewpants> I wasn't complaining at all 05:02 <@mewpants> Or being mean 05:02 <@mewpants> A lot of what today is weird was just standard/required originally 05:03 <@mewpants> Like linked lists used to make a lot of sense 05:04 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 05:05 at times, arrays have been seen as memory wasting, if you don't always fill them completely 05:07 Well, they are, but it's not always an issue. 05:07 I didn't take it as mean. just adding some perspective :-) 05:07 -!- spontiff has quit [Quit: spontiff] 05:07 Andrio: people have been going through the pain of getting NetHack to run on 16 bit MS-DOS. every bit counts there :-) 05:07 Yeah 05:07 <@mewpants> Aye, and in the times when a lot of the code was written, against the platforms it was targeting, memory compactness was probably #1 importance 05:08 (although my opinion for that is: screw MS-DOS) 05:08 and yet 3.6.0 did ditch support for certain old platforms. 05:09 not yet officially. just "we can't build them and will drop them later if noone steps forward" 05:09 [EU] [A]: mmj (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 1761340 points, 54320 turns, ascended 05:09 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/m/mmj/tnnt/dumplog/1572868328.tnnt.html 05:10 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 05:11 linked lists still make sense in some situations 05:11 <@mewpants> some yes 05:12 for any lifo/fifo 05:13 because we have O(1) insertion/deletion at the beginning 05:13 so you have the first element anyway, just keep track of the last element 05:14 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16 <@mewpants> If the queue is bounded you can use an array and index 05:16 <@mewpants> in o(1) 05:16 <@mewpants> But yeah there are cases like freelists 05:16 [EU] [D]: Ashpool (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 861 points, 1249 turns, killed by a giant bat 05:19 huh? 05:20 do you have dynamic arrays in the first place in C? 05:20 i am not talking about lookup, i am talking about insertion 05:21 <@mewpants> Yeah, just keep the head/tail as an index 05:21 you can implement a linked list with a static array. until it is full, it is faster than the naive memory allocating implementation. then you have to do some memory moving :-) 05:21 <@mewpants> Ringbuffer == fifo/lifo (if the size is bounded) 05:22 <@PeterQ> You don't need to have dynamic arrays, you can just copy into a bigger array once the first one is full. Average complexity is still O(1) for insertion 05:23 <@mewpants> ^ 05:23 <@mewpants> Also most of the time (in my experience) when a queue is full you want to block upstream anyway 05:23 in the case of nethack, there are various linked lists used. most of them are size bound. inventory and monsters on one levels are an example. 05:23 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Mon Dwa Fem Neu) had a staff entrusted to her by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:20063 05:23 <@mewpants> block being an abstract concept, not "spin" 05:23 items on the level OTOH aren't 05:24 <@mewpants> Monsters on the level is usually sparse though 05:24 so you just allocate an array with a lot of fields, and keep an index pointing to the end of the array? 05:24 stennowork: and the start 05:24 <@mewpants> stenno yeah (and start) 05:24 <@mewpants> bhaak is too fast 05:24 stennowork: the start might move when you delete the item at the front 05:24 bizarre.. 05:24 right 05:24 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_buffer#/media/File:Circular_Buffer_Animation.gif 05:25 ok then you are just potentionally wasting space there 05:25 because you are possibly allocating more memory than you might need 05:25 yes 05:25 <@mewpants> You allocate the max amount of memory you want to have to buffer 05:25 alright 05:25 <@mewpants> Imagine a situation where you want to communicate between two components on an SoC 05:25 but you have O(1) access for all elements 05:25 <@mewpants> The easiest way to do that is memory map a single buffer 05:26 <@mewpants> into both components 05:26 in theory. if you're looking for certain features, you have to filter all elements 05:26 <@mewpants> And treat it as a queue 05:26 <@mewpants> Or even communicate between two processes 05:26 <@mewpants> You can just send a message saying "there is something new in the buffer" 05:27 <@mewpants> But the idea is that the buffer is pre-allocated so you don't have to map in new pointers to both processes, or serialise large amounts of data 05:28 <@mewpants> For the monster list a dynamic array is A-OK 05:28 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28 <@mewpants> Also stenno for reference I'm using C++ so a lot of the C-pain just goes away for data structures 05:29 ISTR you have vectors in the stdlib for C++ 05:29 so dynamic arrays basically 05:29 <@mewpants> Yeah exacto 05:29 <@mewpants> And unordered_map 05:29 <@mewpants> For things what are sparse 05:29 sparse arrays ;_; 05:29 only make problems 05:29 <@mewpants> It's a map! 05:35 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 447 points, 3190 turns, killed by a large kobold 05:40 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 21904 points, 8411 turns, killed by a gargoyle (and 7 other games not reported) 05:40 [EU] [D]: Dins (Bar-Hum-Mal-Cha), 6013 points, 6784 turns, killed by a wolf 05:42 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 99 points, 368 turns, killed by a sewer rat (and 8 other games not reported) 05:43 so basically objects :P 05:44 [EU] [D]: Dins (Cav-Dwa-Mal-Law), 91 points, 466 turns, killed by a water demon 05:44 well hashmaps, right 05:44 with O(1) lookup 05:45 <@mewpants> Yes 05:45 <@mewpants> unordered_map is a hashmap 05:45 kk 05:46 that is something i don't usually have to worry about in javascript :P 05:46 the engine does it for me 05:46 in js, objects are technically hashmaps too 05:46 <@mewpants> Ah yeah 05:46 my only task is to avoid sparse arrays (which is trivial) 05:47 in php, on the other hand... 05:57 -!- stennowork has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:59 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 05:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 06:04 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 06:08 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 06:25 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:29 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:34 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 248 points, 2288 turns, killed by a hobbit, while fainted from lack of food 06:42 -!- eraserhead97 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 12056 points, 13235 turns, killed by a jaguar 07:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-08 12:00 UTC: Games: 1047, Asc: 9, Scum: 937. 726200 turns, 18341541 points. 8d 00:18 gametime. (70%Wiz), (51%Elf), (62%Cha), (71%Mal), 22d 11:59 remaining. 07:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:05 -!- merleke has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 19167 points, 10670 turns, killed by a blast of fire (and 13 other games not reported) 07:26 <@mewpants> Does anyone know any good web-embeddable tty players that also display the key being pressed? 07:26 <@ShivanHunter> is that even recorded in the ttyrec? 07:26 nodehack should have that as a feature, but doesn't 07:26 no, it's not 07:27 ttyrec only has timing information and the plaintext screens in it 07:27 or to be precise, the ansi-term control codes 07:27 which do not include any keypresses, naturally 07:28 <@mewpants> Ahhh 07:28 <@mewpants> I feel you, that's annoying 07:28 nodehack == jesushack 07:28 its that good\ 07:28 ikr 07:29 :) 07:29 [EU] [D]: thorsb (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 473 points, 761 turns, killed by a dwarf lord 07:30 the best thing about nodehack are all the features and refactoring that i haven't done yet 07:30 its like feather 07:30 ais523's legendary esotheric language that will write itself in the future or so 07:31 wtf 07:31 when i enter 'ais523' in google it suggests 'ais523 death' 07:31 anyway, feather https://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather 07:31 omnious foreshadowing 07:32 <@mewpants> https://asciinema.org/a/8vb57MPguMCCRCeaGaP4uda6J 07:33 <@mewpants> o/ 07:33 hah 07:33 when I enter "ais523" in google it suggests "tas", "reddit" and "speedrun" 07:33 <@mewpants> input!! 07:33 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:33 @mewpants == bubbles? 07:34 mewpants: where is that test map that is supposedly so fleecy? I want to see it :D 07:35 are you hyped for the 3.6.3 releaase 07:35 this is me right now - https://media1.tenor.com/images/0ddcaf6f66505d2e54fe4ab22678db94/tenor.gif 07:35 <@mewpants> K2 yeah 07:35 \o/ 07:36 <@mewpants> Stupid discord 07:36 nice carlton dance 07:36 discord doesn't let you change your nick to "bubblebubblebubble"? 07:36 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36 stennowork :P 07:36 <@mewpants> I think your username is fixed? 07:37 <@mewpants> And the map is not that exciting 07:37 <@mewpants> It';s just some rooms \o/ 07:37 well https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2818 suggests that it's something completely outerspace? 07:38 <@mewpants> It's really not 07:38 <@mewpants> I get screenshot 07:39 [EU] [D]: jannis (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 3084 points, 6294 turns, killed by a white unicorn 07:39 <@mewpants> https://i.imgur.com/ZJeJ9uC.png 07:39 <@mewpants> It's the basement floor of a castle 07:40 heh, is there a way to get that in .des format? :D 07:40