00:03 ok - that was fugly - aggro'ed the watchmen by picking a lock that exploded 8^P 00:04 Ouch 00:05 Though I didn't think the doors in Minetown ever get trapped unless the watchmen put one there already. 00:05 those sneaky watchmen... ...luckily, I just buffed my Cleaver to +6 before heading down ^^ 00:06 Doors in minetown can randomly be trapped, and unfortunately 'trapped' uses the same bit as 'we've already warned you to stop picking that door' 00:06 Get cleaved, watchmen 00:06 ah 00:06 This means if you get warned about a lock - it's now trapped! 00:07 I don't expect to get the murder-penalty since I'm eeevil - but I wonder if I would lose telepathy in this case, if say, I were lawful 00:07 <@rikersan> pretty sure you do 00:08 Only if you're not chaotic. 00:08 ah... ...the benefits of chaos ^^ 00:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 58 points, T:101, killed by a kobold 00:10 tinklebear-Sam-Hum-Fem-Law, killed by an invisible hallucinogen-distorted chameleon imitating a jabberwock 00:10 on Dlvl:8 - nice name (ticklebear) - I like 00:11 <@rikersan> I still think that death is just a wonderful way to go 00:11 Indeed 00:11 Is tinklebear always high? 00:12 I had one of her bones levels too 00:12 Killed by a hallucinogen-distorted bat. 00:12 Freaking bats 00:12 <@rikersan> first off, he likely couldn't see it - second, even if he could he couldn't tell what it was, third - it wasn't what it should have been anyway :) 00:12 <@rikersan> or her, I guess 00:12 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 1477 points, 2930 turns, killed by a gnome king 00:13 tickerbear always eating them 'shrooms 00:13 tinklebear may be attempting permahallu 00:13 rofl 00:13 <@rikersan> that sounds rough to me but ok 00:13 (I'm attempting permahallu. It's been fun.) 00:13 there's such a thing? I thot u were joking... 00:14 <@rikersan> permadeaf, hallu, blind (zen), confused? 00:14 no there's only 3 permaX conducts 00:14 the fourth birth-option conduct is nudist 00:15 <@rikersan> deaf, hallu, fumbling looks like? 00:15 how do permaX conducts work? how do u maintain each one or is it a flag u set in the rsrc file? 00:15 <@rikersan> eraser: flag in rc 00:15 ic 00:18 I was going to skip sub-Minetown since I had luckily found a luck stone above Minetown, but after getting CoMR from Dlvl:5 saso-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha, killed by a soldier ant, I thought I'd go deep to find some loot. That's when I came across ticklebear bonez (pretty loaded - including a magic lamp). 00:19 @v?Nazgul 00:19 Nazgul (W) | Lvl: 13 | Diff: 17 | Spd: 12 | Res: cold sleep poison drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 25 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 0 | Attacks: 1d4 weapon level drain, 2d25 breath sleep | Alignment: -17 | Flags: genocidable, breathless, nopoly, undead, stalker 00:19 to get the bones conduct, set a flag in rc? 00:20 <@rikersan> pretty sure you can also set that immediately in-game but yeah teh rc works better I guess 00:20 kk - thx ^^ 00:22 <@luxidream> $who 00:22 @luxidream: [EU] No current players | [US] thegame tsingi fionna klintos richards EndlessMike Dulce eraserhead97 jonathanhanes OneColdCanuck ShivanHunter karibou BEHiker91W ToneHack | [AU] Numbgoon Andrio 00:27 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:34 [US] [D]: MHL (Rog-Hum-Fem-Cha), 153 points, 324 turns, killed by a falling rock 00:34 [US] [D]: EndlessMike (Hea-Gno-Mal-Neu), 724 points, 3805 turns, killed by a giant bat 00:37 [US] [D]: OneColdCanuck (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 8019 points, 6900 turns, killed by a bolt of cold 00:37 -!- stenno\proc has joined #hardfought 00:38 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 2186 points, 3624 turns, killed by a werewolf 00:39 [US] [D]: MHL (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 182 points, 876 turns, killed by a fox 00:42 -!- stenno\proc has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:42 -!- Bugpowder has joined #hardfought 00:44 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 461 points, 1319 turns, killed by a bat 00:50 -!- wispywillow0 has joined #hardfought 00:50 Hello everyone! 00:51 <@rikersan> welcome! 00:51 <@rikersan> I'm the reddit dude :) 00:53 the reddit dude? that's a tough role, maybe you should play something less demanding? ;) 00:53 <@rikersan> it's one of amy's new roles :) 00:54 <@rikersan> just the latest in the list of harder-than-hard ones 00:55 * wispywillow0 facepalms 00:55 thanks for the advice by the way riker 00:55 <@rikersan> np lol 00:55 <@rikersan> I get excited when people express interest in dnh lol 01:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-07 06:00 UTC: Games: 55, Asc: 0, Scum: 8. 175064 turns, 410602 points. 1d 17:40 gametime. (19%Pri), (74%Hum), (51%Neu), (53%Mal), 23d 17:59 remaining. 01:00 it's been too long since i had to use screen+irssi 01:00 <@rikersan> hdf does log, and there's a discord-irc relay that logs it as well if you just want backscroll 01:01 nah, it's actually more of a screen problem than irc problem. 01:01 turns out i am spoiled by gui windows. 01:04 -!- wispywillow0 has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:10 -!- wispywillow0 has joined #hardfought 01:10 woah, webchat was having some serious problems there. 01:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Hum Mal Law) was given Xiuhcoatl, on T:2316 01:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Hum Mal Law) was given the Garnet Rod, on T:3455 01:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Hum Mal Law) was given the Golden Sword of Y'ha-Talla, on T:3799 01:13 <@rikersan> ah nice one 01:13 <@rikersan> @ChrisANG lawful dudes should not get given y'ha-talla, for obvious reasons :/ 01:17 -!- TheGame20 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:30 -!- tonehack__ has joined #hardfought 01:33 -!- tonehack_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:39 [US] [D]: tinklebear (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 12484 points, 7636 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted ogre 01:49 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 4975 points, 7492 turns, killed by a killer bee 01:51 -!- tonehack__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:53 -!- Bugpowder has quit [Quit: Bugpowder] 02:01 !rng a b 02:01 raisse: a 02:01 [EU] [D]: wvc (Ran-Orc-Fem-Cha), 1743 points, 2840 turns, killed by a gnome lord, while fainted from lack of food 02:03 -!- wispywillow0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06 *uck - lost intrinsic protection from gremlins - will I have to pay from the beginning or will one payment bring me back? 02:09 -!- eraserhead97 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09 [US] [D]: eraserhead97 (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 92918 points, 17035 turns, killed by a minotaur 02:10 [EU] [D]: wvc (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 689 points, 1694 turns, killed by a giant bat 02:15 is the reality even worse than either of those options? 02:15 Pretty sure one payment will restore your protection, though that may be a bug 02:15 iirc some case makes it so you have to start at the beginning AND have the bad 9+ prot odds. 02:15 oh, it's that way around? 02:16 I don't recall what happens if you had at least 9 protection. 02:30 [US] [D]: fionna (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 7788 points, 5176 turns, killed by a pony, while fainted from lack of food 02:33 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 02:36 I suppose it might be fixed in 3.6+ anyway 02:37 [US] [D]: dbanethacker (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Neu), 2547 points, 2412 turns, killed by a wand 02:38 -!- stenno\proc has joined #hardfought 02:43 -!- stenno\proc has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:45 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 2280 points, 3095 turns, killed by a killer bee 02:46 [US] [D]: dbanethacker (Rog-Hum-Fem-Cha), 301 points, 594 turns, killed by a jackal 02:51 -!- stenno\proc has joined #hardfought 02:53 [EU] [D]: wvc (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 10204 points, 4972 turns, killed by a yeti 02:55 bhaak: ljharb | stenno\proc: the people who created wasm explicitly stated its intent was not to replace JS, and it won’t. 02:55 ( ljharb is tc39 member) 02:55 seems that i will be the proud owner of 23 zorkmids in 5 years 02:56 hell 02:56 yeah, feels good to be rich 02:56 [EU] [D]: spline (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 3852 points, 3429 turns, killed by a bolt of fire 02:58 [US] [D]: dbanethacker (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 34 points, 156 turns, killed by a goblin (and one other game not reported) 03:01 Nice, the level after Oracle had a polytrap -> skeleton near the <, so I jumped down a trap door on Oracle, hoping to reach Soko.. landed one step from the Soko stairs. 03:02 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:03 -!- stenno\proc is now known as stenno 03:05 shit stuck in lava on valk quest 03:05 AH! I can pray 03:19 @v?soldier 03:19 soldier (@) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 10 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 10 | Attacks: 1d8 weapon physical | Alignment: -2 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, nopoly, stalker, infravisible 03:20 holy crap the whatis_ options are awesome 03:20 i should configure my rcfile 03:24 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 03:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 03:27 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 4325 points, 8601 turns, killed by a giant ant, while fainted from lack of food 03:28 LarienTelrunya: https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/commit/423bce2bf62abe1b941f452695f106bd30f32f4c 03:29 stenno: wow that was quick 03:29 yeah 03:30 -!- AntiVirus45 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30 how so? 03:31 LarienTelrunya found it yesterday, i made a report and got an email a few hours later 03:31 'it' being the misspelling of butterflies 03:32 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 2382263 points, T:113965, choked on a lichen corpse 03:33 why do we even have the dev public if it takes you guyes almost two years to find a typo? 03:34 bubbles_nhww: lol what a question... at least nh4 is still fundamentally vanilla, so the answer should be obvious :P 03:34 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 03:37 lol! 03:45 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 03:46 -!- spontiff has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:49 [US] [A]: kcostell (Bar-Hum-Mal-Cha), 1586454 points, 36906 turns, ascended 03:49 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/kcostell/tnnt/dumplog/1572863225.tnnt.html 03:50 [Tr] kcostell now has Both Genders! 03:50 [R] Clan Clan of the Cave Grue advances to rank 8! 03:51 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 728 points, 2592 turns, killed by a boulder 03:54 -!- Xjs has joined #hardfought 03:54 [EU] [D]: Dins (Mon-Hum-Fem-Cha), 5873 points, 5786 turns, killed by an ape, while frozen by a monster's gaze 03:55 -!- phorbin has joined #hardfought 03:57 -!- phorbin has quit [Client Quit] 03:59 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought 04:00 -!- phorbin has joined #hardfought 04:01 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:01 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 04:02 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 13505 points, T:4828, killed by a giant beetle 04:07 -!- truculent has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:09 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:09 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1162 points, T:1746, killed by a magic missile 04:11 [US] [D]: tinklebear (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 152 points, 207 turns, killed by a wand 04:11 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 86 points, T:394, killed by a coyote 04:17 -!- ruffni has joined #hardfought 04:18 are Alt-key combos (like Alt+l for loot) only available with curses interface? 04:21 -!- eLtMosen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:21 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought 04:21 [US] [D]: tinklebear (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 304 points, 488 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted hobbit (and one other game not reported) 04:23 -!- joes has joined #hardfought 04:24 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:25 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1575 points, 3211 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted giant bat 04:27 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:30 -!- joes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35 [EU] [D]: Dins (Ran-Gno-Mal-Neu), 1232 points, 1906 turns, killed by a Mordor orc 04:38 stenno: https://webassembly.org/docs/faq/#is-webassembly-trying-to-replace-javascript read that. and then replace JS with C or PHP 04:42 -!- joes has joined #hardfought 04:51 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 04:53 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought 05:06 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 148 points, 441 turns, killed by a fox 05:13 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 783 points, 1875 turns, killed by a kobold lord, while frozen by a monster's gaze 05:15 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:24 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:24 -!- joes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:30 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:34 -!- spontiff has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 05:45 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 05:47 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 05:52 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:55 [EU] [D]: thorsb (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 4669 points, 3563 turns, killed by a dwarf mummy 06:09 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought 06:16 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:21 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 06:25 [US] [D]: Smugzug (Rog-Orc-Mal-Cha), 1636 points, 3057 turns, killed by a hill orc 06:27 LarienTelrunya hahaha questions served and answered 06:27 [EU] [D]: Muad (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 9145 points, 6959 turns, killed by a ranseur 06:34 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 06:43 getting downvoted on /r/roguelikes for stating that DF is not a roguelike 06:44 -!- spontiff has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:44 yaaaaaaay bubbles_nhww *bubblebubblebubble!* to be honest, it would be hard enough for me to develop on windows 7, let alone unix; win XP forever :P 06:45 stennowork: DF adventure mode is pretty roguelikey I think? only played it for a bit and didn't get anywhere really, but it felt like a roguelike to me 06:46 [EU] [D]: thorsb (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 272 points, 1076 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion 06:47 Do you use visual studio amy? 06:48 [EU] [D]: gargor (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 285 points, 1963 turns, killed by a small mimic 06:48 bubbles_nhww: if I tell you what I use for developing you'll declare me crazy 06:48 notepad 06:49 I think I remember something like that :hmm: 06:49 * ais523_ waits for the big reveal 06:49 close enough; wordpad 06:49 and sometimes proton 06:49 (because notepad doesn't have enough memory to hold some of the files slex uses) 06:49 also notepad doesn't deal with unix line endings, where wordpad does 06:50 heh, annoyingly wordpad has lag issues with the size of slex's monst.c too by now 06:50 however, notepad++ is even more unbearably laggy 06:50 [iirc, it's been a while since i touched any of those] 06:50 do typical compilers have issues with the size of monst.c? 06:51 proton handles slex's monst.c reasonably well but has other issues, such as the search function always starting from the beginning of the file even when I'm in the middle of it 06:51 I find vscode pretty good for big files 06:51 ais523_: surprisingly the biggest compiler issue in slex is mhitu.c actually; I think it has too many macro calls and therefore takes a long time to compile, whereas monst.c is quick to compile 06:51 It's my main daily driver, handles most file types I have to edit 06:51 And does vim mode pretty well 06:52 amy I think the more impressive thing is how much stuff slex has. I am terrified to think what it would be if you used a more-programmy environment! 06:52 bubbles_nhww: argh, is it true that vscode doesn't run on XP? 06:52 .. as long as it has copy-paste ... 06:53 Lame looks like you can't 06:53 You mean yank-put \o/ 06:54 yypp 06:54 oddly, Emacs uses "yank" for a paste operation, not a cut operation (cut is "wipe") 06:55 (or "kill" for the special case where the cut operation ends at the end of a line) 06:55 Oh yeah I should have know that from readline 06:55 Ctrl-Y is "yank from the kill-buffer" 06:58 [EU] [D]: spline (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 191 points, 1020 turns, killed by a gnome 06:58 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 06:59 bubbles_nhww: oh don't worry, slex will keep increasing in size as long as I have any environment capable of programming :P there's still a lot of stuff on the todo list 06:59 Why not break monst.c into two files? 07:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-07 12:00 UTC: Games: 98, Asc: 1, Scum: 21. 313590 turns, 2169088 points. 3d 06:59 gametime. (22%Wiz), (68%Hum), (49%Neu), (60%Fem), 23d 11:59 remaining. 07:00 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: quit] 07:00 yank is used by vim too 07:00 23yy 07:01 bubbles_nhww: might be a good idea, except it means I can no longer grep for everything in the list at once 07:01 e.g. sometimes I want to find all monsters that have a specific flag; right now I don't have to switch back and forth between two files for doing so 07:04 stennowork it means the opposite in vim/readline, "yank" in readline is "paste" (liike ais pointed out to me) 07:04 [US] [D]: Noah (Cav-Hum-Fem-Law), 496 points, 2508 turns, killed by a giant bat 07:04 oh ouch wtf 07:04 Larien but grep goes over multiple files 07:04 Also kiwi is supppper slow for me at the moment weirdly 07:04 Typing has so much lag. 07:05 bubbles_nhww: happens to me frequently too 07:05 except that here for some reason it doesn't 07:05 when I'm at home on my laptop it's giga laggy 07:06 at home it sometimes displays that you're typing something, which is probably what's causing it to lag 07:06 i.e. generally kiwiirc seems to detect whether someone else is typing, and it trying to display that is giving me lag... can that function be turned off somehow? 07:07 Oooh, YOU ARE A STAR <3 07:07 In settings top right 07:07 "Share when I'm typing a message" 07:07 huh for some reason that was on but I wasn't getting lag here 07:07 I think depends on the browser/other stuff/network 07:07 I don't understand networks etc. 07:07 Too complicated for me. 07:07 and also I didn't see it when you were typing a message, even though I do see it when I'm at home 07:08 it displays "bubbles_nhww ..." while you're typing, but only when I'm on my laptop 07:08 wondering whether the lag problem of my laptop ceases if I turn that off 07:08 will test once I get home :) 07:09 man I wish kiwi had better documentation, googling for "share when I'm typing a message" only finds kiwi's github repo 07:10 what I want to know is whether it only turns off others seeing it when I type, or also that I see it when others type 07:10 bubbles_nhww: did it fix your lag? *bubblebubblebubble* 07:10 It has massively helped! :-) 07:10 great! so it can help me too, hopefully! 07:11 that damn lag was thoroughly unenjoyable over the last weeks, especially since it also caused sound playback (media player, VLC etc.) to lag and it was driving me NUTS! 07:11 [US] [D]: kcostell (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 1148 points, 2284 turns, killed by a blue jelly 07:18 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2000503 points, 70482 turns, killed by a purple worm (with the Amulet), while dressing up 07:18 how did the purple worm get the amulet? 07:18 [US] [D]: Noah (Cav-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1137 points, 2055 turns, killed by a giant ant 07:19 [Tr] Andrio now has Most Achievements in One Game! 07:21 It ate me while I had the Amulet? 07:22 ouch 07:22 !lastgame Andrio 07:22 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] (sorry, no dump exists for nh:Andrio) | [hdf-eu] (sorry, no dump exists for nh:Andrio) | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Andrio/slex/dumplog/1571311365.slex.txt 07:22 [EU] [D]: gargor (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1024 points, 2732 turns, killed by a gnomish wizard 07:23 wut 07:23 Slex 07:23 you were playing slex during tnnt time? :P 07:23 heh but seriously, is that not how you get the tnnt game dumplogs? 07:23 !tnntdumplog Andrio 07:24 Anyway, lots of achievements 07:24 https://i.imgur.com/tqWyJP1.png<3 07:24 Rude purple worm 07:25 I barely got any time to enjoy it. 07:25 Nice room 07:25 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 453 points, 1276 turns, killed by a gnome 07:25 STATS! 07:25 only 5 turns until you get instakilled even at AC -8? ouch 07:25 Attribs whatever you call them 07:25 My xml file now describes the race/role 07:26 bubbles_nhww: github repo for bubblehack when :D 07:26 Though (controversially?) I allow a role to specify how much/if at all the race can affect the random stat distribution phase 07:26 but anyway I need to go home now, and then hopefully end my woes by using the lag switch on the kiwi interface :P 07:26 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 381 points, 862 turns, killed by a homunculus 07:29 2 secs 07:31 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 101 points, 132 turns, killed by a jackal (and one other game not reported) 07:32 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 6379 points, 13502 turns, killed by a rope golem 07:36 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 697 points, 1150 turns, killed by a hobgoblin 07:41 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 469 points, 1193 turns, killed by a hobbit (and one other game not reported) 07:43 [US] [D]: Noah (Cav-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1738 points, 3165 turns, killed by a dwarf 07:45 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 3712 points, T:3210, killed by a soldier ant 07:47 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 436 points, T:658, killed by a kitten 07:47 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought 07:48 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 07:50 https://github.com/bubblesnh/bubblehack 07:50 Is this visible to anyone else? 07:50 no 07:50 404 octocat 07:51 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 970 points, 969 turns, killed by a small mimic 07:51 [US] [D]: Noah (Cav-Hum-Fem-Neu), 496 points, 1503 turns, killed by a gnome lord 07:53 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53 HMM 07:54 For some reason my account is flagged :-\ 07:55 [EU] [D]: bragi (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1591 points, 3684 turns, killed by a rothe 07:55 -!- PeterQ has joined #hardfought 07:55 did you just know create one? 07:55 *just now 07:56 [R] Clan The Would-Be Kings advances to rank 15! 07:58 <{Demo}> wtf 07:58 [US] [D]: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 208 points, 682 turns, killed by a giant mimic 08:02 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3142 points, 3554 turns, killed by a mumak 08:04 [EU] [D]: thorsb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 3953 points, 3644 turns, killed by a lance 08:08 [US] [D]: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 376 points, 1575 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted little dog 08:10 [US] [D]: Noah (Mon-Hum-Mal-Law), 518 points, 2299 turns, killed by a rothe, while frozen by a monster's gaze 08:15 -4 votes now 08:15 life continues to be hard 08:16 should i delete it 08:17 meh fuck it 08:17 'hearthstone is a roguelike' 08:17 w/e 08:17 if people define everything with randomness and permadeath to be a roguelike, which is a definition many people use without thinking, then they would have to define hearthstone as a roguelike 08:17 'rimworld is a roguelike' 08:17 I take this mostly as evidence that their definition is wrong 08:18 yes 08:18 (my favourite counterexample for that definition is Tetris, but maybe Hearthstone makes the point better) 08:18 -!- ruffni has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18 -!- ruffni` has joined #hardfought 08:18 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2123 points, 3030 turns, killed by a mumak 08:18 apparently /r/roguelikes gets butthurt when i call DF not a roguelike 08:18 DF adventure mode is a roguelike, the "main" mode isn't though 08:18 and the reply to this is 'it depends on how you define it, and it depends if the community accepts it as a roguelike' 08:18 no shit sherlock 08:19 most things depend on their definition 08:19 I've been meaning to write an article about this some day 08:19 yes please 08:19 I have some pretty controversial views on the definition of roguelikes 08:19 e.g. I consider FTL a roguelike, and Crypt of the Necrodancer not a roguelike 08:19 permadeath / turn-based / procedural dungeons 08:19 and HyperRogue a roguelike in orb strategy mode, but a puzzle game in standard mode 08:19 My favourite roguelike is Minesweeper 08:19 wait doesn't ftl have realtime too 08:20 yes, FTL has real time, but it gives you the tools to work around it 08:20 you control how fast time flows (because you can pause and unpause at any time) 08:20 so the game basically comes down to "pause, work out your move, unpause for just long enough for it to be carried out" 08:20 but thats the same for DF too 08:20 the question is, can i say 'move to the next step' in pause mode 08:20 that's not the issue most people who consider DF not a roguelike have with it 08:21 at any time 08:21 if yes, its turn-based 08:21 FTL doesn't have a "turn advance" command other than waiting unpaused for the required length of time; this is to its detriment, it would benefit if one were added 08:21 if not, it has realtime elements 08:21 -!- ruffni` has left #hardfought 08:21 so yes, it has an element of reactions on pressing space at the correct moment, but it isn't one that adds to the game 08:22 I guess one viewpoint I have is that if a game has a feature, or misses a feature, that is normally at odds with being a roguelike, it can still be a roguelike if removing/adding that feature would improve the game (whereas it can't be a roguelike if removing/adding it would make it worse) 08:24 the space bar is the biggest design problem of FTL 08:26 morning 08:26 afternoon 08:26 :) 08:27 hmm, now I'm wondering what NetHack would look like if you moved it to the roguelite balance point, whilst leaving it otherwise the same (ASCII, turn-based, etc.) 08:28 the main requirement of that balance point being that the main factor in whether or not you survive an encounter is player skill, with the stats of the character having only a minor effect by comparison 08:29 nethack being based on skill? what is this heresy 08:29 what would happen with all the poison traps 08:29 have you tried playing a game at that balance point, like Crypt of the Necrodancer? it's a very different experience from a traditional roguelike 08:29 poison traps get a <1 sec delay before actually firing, if you hit a key then you dodge it 08:30 yeah i played necrodancer 08:30 no matter how skilled you are, you can't survive the Sanctum with a level 1 character with no useful equipment, intrinsics, spells, etc. 08:30 also i am currently playing rimworld 08:30 [US] [D]: phorbin (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 8067 points, 6358 turns, killed by an owlbear (and 8 other games not reported) 08:30 Rimworld of course is in the "DF done right" genre :-) 08:30 aosdict: heh, NetHack + QTEs /would/ be pretty close to a roguelite 08:30 Pinkbeast, and as such, people would consider it a roguelike apparently 08:30 it's also one of the best ideas for an April Fools joke I've heard in a while 08:31 keyword for logscanners: YASI 08:31 lol quicktime events 08:31 haha 08:31 rimworld is df but better 08:31 I think I'm due for at least 10 years more of quixotic objection to people calling videogames "RPGs" before I get to people calling roguelikelikes "roguelikes" 08:31 rimworld isn't a game though 08:31 It's a story generator 08:31 Pinkbeast, lol 08:31 [US] [D]: larry (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 6659 points, 13861 turns, killed by a wolf, while praying 08:32 Pinkbeast: do you object to people calling /any/ game an RPG? or just games that are out-of-genre? 08:32 According to our lord and saviour tynan 08:32 only tabletops 08:32 ais523_: Any game where you don't actually play a role; having stats and levels isn't roleplaying. 08:32 RPGs are things you fire at helicopters 08:32 now, is awarhammer a tabletop rpg? :D 08:32 warhammer* 08:32 (fight!) 08:32 Pinkbeast so what about story modes in games like call of duty? 08:32 I guess you don't choose your role though 08:33 Not trolling, interested 08:33 if not, is Inquisitor a tabletop rpg? 08:33 To me I don't care about labels 08:33 Pinkbeast: hmm, in terms of "playing a role", do you require the game to force you to play a role, or merely allow you to play a role; and does it matter whether the game developer or player chooses which role to play? 08:33 if baldurs gate is a RPG, then Inquisitor is a tabletop rpg 08:33 Is nethack an rpg? 08:33 I consider roguelikes to be a subgenre of RPGs 08:34 and I know from experience that many NetHack players do roleplay in it (although many players don't) 08:34 I do sometimes 08:34 e.g. priestess has to be drow 08:34 yeah you can roleplay 08:34 Or rather, drow has to be priestess 08:34 i am trying to never get negative alignment 08:34 fwiw, I think there's a fairly precise three-way split between WRPG/JRPG/roguelike, but also that there's possibly no fundamental reason for this split to exist; mixing elements of the genres seems to work just fine 08:35 ais523_ (and perhaps also addressing bubbles_nhww's question): Clearly not "allow" - you can imagine Pacman's motivation for eating dots if you _like_. "Force" isn't quite the word, but that it is the overwhelming expectation that you will do so - like a tabletop RPG (or an MMO on a roleplaying server that takes it relatively seriously). 08:35 stennowork: never losing alignment is a conduct in NH4 and derivatives, although it's a different conduct from never going negative 08:35 ais523_, i know, i ascended with it accidentally 08:35 :P 08:35 Pinkbeast: right, and it's hard for a computer game to enforce that because most computer games won't just give up if they sense the player isn't playing along 08:35 oh wait a second. porkman is not the same as pinkbeast? 08:35 Why is life so confusing? :-( 08:36 porkman is porkman and pinkbeast is pinkbeast 08:36 Quite. But "RPG" in computer games is overwhelmingly used to mean "stats and levels, maybe in a D&D derived fashion", which clearly is a genre but isn't anything to do with roleplaying. 08:36 I think I've definitely responded to the wrong one's questions in the past :x 08:37 Pinkbeast games shouldn't have a genre, they should just have tags 08:37 Which I guess is what you get on, for example, a steam brewoers thing 08:37 for me genres are usually important 08:37 bubbles_nhww: Yet Doom remains a first-person shooter :-) 08:37 because if i want to play a roguelike 08:37 and i download the game and its not a roguelike but some pseudo shit i get sad 08:37 I usually just call it a "traditional roguelike" 08:37 like DoD <3 08:38 Pinkbeast: thinking about it, it's interesting how that came about: games like D&D retained their stats and levels because without them, there are no constraints on the players and they tend to start getting ahead of themselves and trying to do impossible things 08:38 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 08:38 So quixotically I say "CRPG" when I mean "a stat-and-levels videogame", a practice becoming as archaic as writing "sha'n't" 08:38 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:38 ais523_: Except that these days there are lots of actual roleplaying games without those stats-and-levels 08:38 (the stats and levels in D&D were originally inherited from Chainmail, which would be considered a turn-based strategy game in today's terminology rather than an RPG) 08:38 is diablo an RPG? i mean it clearly has RPG elements, but its mostly focused on hack'n'slay) 08:38 stennowork: have you read the webassembly link I posted? 08:39 Pinkbeast: I used to belong to a society who tried many of them out; the vast majority of games had some sort of stat or level system as a guideline even if it was only loosely used or highly simplified 08:39 stennowork: By my definition? No. 08:39 bhaak, i missed it, sorry 08:39 it's probably possible to make it work without 08:39 Pinkbeast, neither by mine 08:39 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2906 points, 4052 turns, killed by an elven arrow, while praying 08:39 that said, I've never seen a game of Roll To Dodge that didn't degenerate into silliness very quickly 08:39 bhaak, do you mean the one with the roadmap that they want to have DOM access in the fuure? 08:39 stennowork: https://webassembly.org/docs/faq/#is-webassembly-trying-to-replace-javascript after reading that, replace JS with C or PHP and read again :-) 08:40 Nothing will displace C in my heart though 08:40 And that's the only place it matters! 08:40 (Roll To Dodge is about the simplest RPG I've seen; it uses d6 rolls to resolve any action, but there aren't any stats or levels or the like so the values you need for a success are always the same, no matter what you're trying to do; the system breaks down as soon as people try to abuse it even slightly) 08:40 ais523_: that's certainly true - mechanics are conventional and useful but not essential - but that's in sharp contrast to the situation with CRPGs, where if you removed all the stats and levels it wouldn't _be_ a CRPG. 08:41 Pinkbeast: I'm not convinced, take your typical Final Fantasy game and remove the combat, it's still recognisable as a Final Fantasy game 08:41 so there are genre elements that aren't tied to the stats and levels, even though those are an important part 08:41 bhaak, well their argument sounds a bit shallow indeed 08:41 I'm not sure what would be left but it's not clear what you have then is a videogame, as opposed to (say) a film you watch on your computer 08:41 bhaak, they say 'we wont replace JS, because(?) JS already has a privileged place in the web ecosystem' 08:42 that is not really an argumetn though 08:42 so does PHP :P 08:42 stennowork: that translates to "we realise that at this point, supplanting JavaScript entirely is probably impossible" 08:42 not so much C though 08:43 php is dying a slow death after the rise of node 08:43 ais523_, yeah i guess 08:43 that sounds more like a resignation than anything else 08:43 php is dying a slow death after the rise of node ← this worries me, how did PHP end up getting dropped in favour of something that is arguably even worse? 08:44 ais523_, why do you think node is _worse than PHP_? 08:44 it's only "worse" in some regards 08:44 <{Demo}> I had to deploy some php yesterday :( 08:44 stennowork: both JavaScript and PHP have issues as languages, but Node's ecosystem is completely insane 08:44 i am working with both PHP and JS in the frontend and backend 08:44 also, if all you know is a hammer ... 08:45 and PHP is infinitely worse than JS 08:45 <{Demo}> php is infinitely worse than js 08:45 I see ais523_ hasn't dealt with the 5 Go package managers 08:45 especially if you prefer a FP-style programming 08:45 that said, PHP was designed by someone who had very little idea what they were doing (and didn't intend to create a serious project at the time); whereas JS was designed by someone who did know what they were doing, but were up against ridiculous time constraints 08:45 bhaak: I haven't tried to use Go much 08:45 or at all 08:46 I always thought PHP was designed by someone who'd learned about Perl then drank a pint of vodka through a straw 08:46 we can argue about npm and its probably not the best package maanger in the world 08:46 Pinkbeast, PHP was created by someone who just wanted to make some CGI scripts 08:46 Pinkbeast: PHP was intended to 08:46 <{Demo}> there's a million other hipster nodejs package managers you can use 08:46 without the intent of creating a langauge 08:47 be a language to use as a Perl alternative for one specific project, and run faster 08:47 funny when python people complain about node_modules, but then use pip-env 08:47 those hypocrites 08:47 <{Demo}> funny how bad python is at packing into a single executable 08:47 stennowork: well, the management of the repository itself is also important, separately from the package manager 08:47 [EU] [D]: thorsb (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 739 points, 1855 turns, killed by a poisonous corpse 08:48 fwiw, I'm suspicious about package managers for programming, especially if there are a lot of recursive dependencies, but it's something we probably can't move away from at this point 08:48 ais523_, i dont understand what you mean with that, sorry 08:48 also - is there a package manager who does it well? 08:48 apt? pear? pecl? 08:48 stennowork: npm is a massive web of millions of packages, most very small, that recursively depend on each other in massive dependency trees, with no real checks against malicious code being committed and no real contingencies for issues with, e.g., developers getting annoyed 08:49 CPAN? 08:49 cargo (Rust's main package manager) isn't that bad as package managers go, although it had a lot of experience learning from the mistakes of its competitors 08:49 noted 08:49 <{Demo}> I've heard good things about cargo 08:49 i've heard good things about rust :] 08:50 CPAN the repository is much saner than npm the repository 08:50 cpan the install tool is utterly insane, but luckily there are alternatives like cpanm 08:50 (one thing I like about cpanm is that it /isn't/ a package manager, it just recursively downloads and installs packages from CPAN, now they're on your system and anyone can use them) 08:50 [US] [D]: Noah (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2257 points, 3114 turns, killed by a dwarf lord 08:51 [hdf-us] [4k] l (Waab) (Bar Gia Mal Cha) killed the ghost of Chorkenson, the former Wizard, on T:2714 08:52 [hdf-us] [4k] l (Waab) (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 6603 points, T:2731, killed by a giant bat 08:52 [US] [D]: Noah (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 83 points, 178 turns, killed by a small mimic 08:56 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 510 points, T:809, killed by a soldier ant 08:57 [hdf-us] [4k] l (Waab) (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 2073 points, T:891, killed by a water elemental 08:58 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 365 points, T:78, killed by a hobbit 08:58 -!- Bugpowder has joined #hardfought 08:58 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law), 1006 points, T:2923, killed by a giant ant 09:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:1744 09:01 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "blessed rustproof +2 Mjollnir", on T:1745 09:01 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:1749 09:01 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 09:02 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fireproof +2 pair of speed boots", on T:1762 09:03 [US] [D]: SkippitoFriskito (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 12266 points, 7212 turns, killed by a bolt of fire 09:08 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed Eye of the Aethiopica", on T:2202 09:10 [US] [D]: aosdict (Bar-Hum-Fem-Neu), 4562 points, 4243 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted watch captain 09:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed Heart of Ahriman", on T:2361 09:12 https://github.com/bubblehack/bubblehack 09:12 finally 09:12 ooh libuncursed 09:13 * stennowork stars and watches releases 09:13 speaking about watching releases 09:13 does it seem to you that there will be a 3.6.3 release soon after the MS prerelease build? 09:13 <{Demo}> hahaha cloned 09:14 It doesn't do anything yet, but I am adding a DECK OF CARDS 09:14 as we speak 09:14 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 09:14 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 09:14 amy just in time 09:14 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 4877 points, 6922 turns, killed by a rothe 09:14 bubbles_nhww, why did you decide for libuncursed? (not saying that its bad, just wondering) 09:14 Seemed the least insane interface onto curses 09:14 ais523_ will be happy to hear that 09:15 My big grief with it is using usc2 internally rather than utf8 09:15 But it's really not a big deal 09:15 well, libuncursed1 is like 90% the same as curses, so it's still pretty insane (just marginally less insane than the competition) 09:15 [US] [D]: aosdict (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 37 points, 132 turns, killed by a falling object (and 3 other games not reported) 09:15 it's actually worse than this: curses uses UCS-2 internally on Windows and UCS-4 internally on Linux 09:15 and I had to match that to be compatible with existing programs 09:15 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 09:15 Yeah I get that 09:15 ucs-4...? 09:15 *bubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubble!* ♥ 09:15 never even heard of that 09:15 stennowork: what's wrong with UCS-4? 09:15 so old-fashioned 09:16 Bubble? 09:16 Andrio? 09:16 whats wrong with it is thats its not utf-x :P 09:16 Andrio? 09:16 stenno? 09:16 yes? 09:16 what happens 09:16 stennowork: have you seen UTF-1? UTF-5? UTF-7? UTF-9? 09:16 most of the UTFs are just as insane 09:16 utf-1 can encode ASCII? 09:16 (admittedly UTF-9 was an April Fools joke, and oddly is the sanest of all the formats listed) 09:16 lol 09:16 stennowork: UTF-1 isn't a 1-bit format, fortunately 09:16 omg 09:17 oh 1 bit, right 09:17 whcar isn't even a huge deal, I just do utf8 internally and convert to ucs2 when I send to libuncursed 09:17 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 228 points, 723 turns, killed by a giant mimic 09:17 *(which then converts back to utf8 on display) 09:17 utf-pi 09:17 YANI: message when a wand of secret door detection detects stuff 09:17 UTF-1 was basically designed as a UTF format that preserves ASCII, C0 control codes, and C1 control codes literally 09:18 bubbles_nhww: not necessarily, libuncursed will use codepage 437 when communicating with a non-Unicode terminal 09:18 but this is transparent to the user (other than characters outside codepage 437 not rendering properly, obviously) 09:18 Have fun with that in the Sanctum though... 09:18 You find a fire trap. You find a fire trap. You find a fire trap. You find a fire trap. You find a fire trap. You find a fire trap. You find a fire trap. You find a fire trap. You find a secret door. 09:18 that must be a general PITA to handle all those encoding things for the different terminals 09:19 it's complex because most terminals support multiple encodings, and the characters you're sending often could be sent in multiple encodings, and sometimes you need more than one encoding for your full character set 09:19 man I turned off that annoying "share when I'm typing" option but it's still slightly laggy 09:19 so you need to make sure the terminal and program agree on what encoding to use, and most programs don't bother and consider that the user's issue 09:19 ais523_: you're also using kiwiirc, right? 09:19 LarienTelrunya: when I have my underscore, yes 09:20 because I can see an "ais523_ ..." on the right when you're typing, and it's causing my PC to lag! :P 09:21 ais523_ are non-utf terminals that aren't windows? 09:21 LarienTelrunya yeah it is better, but still not great 09:21 bubbles_nhww: plenty, but they're mostly old terminals that would be unlikely to be installed on recent operating systems 09:21 I think it might actually just be buffering my input or something 09:21 I installed quite a few of them basically just because I wanted to be able to test on as many terminals as possible 09:22 ok fair enough, I don't think that conversion will ever be a perf thing 09:22 So I don't care too much 09:22 bubbles_nhww: I have the definite suspicion that the lag is only happening when trying to type something while some other kiwi user who has that setting enabled is typing 09:22 Internally I have an opaque "glyph" type that gets translated to the actual character at render time 09:23 FIQ's suggestion 09:23 LarienTelrunya: I can help you debug if you like, I can just start typing something really slowly 09:23 LarienTelrunya hmm, it never used to be this bad 09:23 Are you all using kiwiirc.com? The one on hdf server didnm't seem to work 09:23 ais523_: alright, try it :) 09:24 hmm now it's not lagging that badly 09:24 but I can see the ... next to your username, so I know you're typing 09:24 -!- eLtMosen1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:24 perhaps it depends on how quickly I'm typing? 09:24 if I'm typing slowly, maybe there isn't a lot of extra load 09:24 could be 09:24 it would be great if I could just disable that display on my end completely 09:24 I wonder if the discord bridge might be easier for web use 09:25 being able to see if someone is typing may be nice and all, but not if it causes so much lag! 09:25 ais523_: are you also on kiwiirc 09:25 aosdict: yes, when I have my underscore 09:25 oh I didn't scroll far back enough sorry 09:26 How do I do the discord thing? 09:26 !rld help 09:26 I'm not sure if rld responds to any commands other than just relaying them 09:27 (which reminds me, I haven't seen rld speak in here for a while; did the Discord side go quiet or is it broken?) 09:27 Do you know what discord server/channel I need to join? 09:27 And yeah rld has been real quiet recently 09:27 the server's normally called "the roguelikes discord" but I don't know what the actual code to connect to it is 09:27 Discord "servers" tend not to have nice domain names like IRC servers do 09:27 (they aren't actual servers, though, just sets-of-channels-with-shared-administration) 09:28 they have horrible multidigit id or something 09:28 <{Demo}> rldead 09:30 -!- bubbles_ has joined #hardfought 09:30 -!- bubbles_nhww has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30 Easier to just do this I think. 09:30 ais523_: returning to the discussion from earlier for a moment, wishing is one part of nethack where high player skill (or at least experience) makes a huge difference in-game 09:31 yes, but that's more a strategic thing: a wish rarely does anything in the moment, it's all about improving your character 09:31 in a game like Necrodancer, improving your character is utterly unnecessary to win, you can just beat every encounter with a starting character with no equipment but the basic dagger you start with 09:31 even the endgame bosses 09:32 so strategy is, in a sense, entirely unnecessary 09:32 the only advantage to improving your character is that it a) allows for mistakes, or b) simplifies the inputs you need to beat a particular fight, thus making the mistakes less likely to happen 09:33 or c) makes the encounter go faster / give higher rewards, which is helpful in speedrunning/scoring even when it has no direct impact on the game's difficulty 09:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 15130 points, T:3502, killed by a blue jelly 09:36 I don't think NetHack has anything that remotely corresponds to this, if you don't have the equipment/spells/trinsics/hitpoints/consumables to overcome an encounter, you run away, or the character dies 09:36 no matter how good you are 09:37 @?yeti 09:37 yeti (Y) | Lvl: 5 | Diff: 7 | Spd: 15 | Res: cold | Confers: cold | MR: 0 | Generates: sheol gehennom dungeons | AC: 6 | Attacks: 1d6 claw physical, 1d6 claw physical, 1d4 bite physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, infravisible 09:37 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2525 points, 7265 turns, killed by a yeti 09:39 <@Tone> Yes nethack is more about slowly improving your position, mostly through inventory, intrinsics, and hp 09:39 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39 ooh, rld is working after all 09:40 <@Tone> Hello, I come from discord :) 09:40 bubbles_nhww was looking for instructions on how to connect to the channel on the Discord side 09:41 [EU] [D]: Ashpool (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 6787 points, 8150 turns, killed by a human mummy, while praying 09:42 <@Tone> You just need the discord client, and the server link 09:42 <@Tone> Which I can find if you give me a moment 09:43 Please mr tone! 09:43 Currently using my server to connect in :-\ 09:44 <@Tone> This should be the link, let me know if it doesn't work for some reason: https://discord.gg/9pmFGKx 09:44 <@Tone> From there you want to use the #nethack-hardfought channel 09:44 ais523_: Well if you don't have the stuff to overcome an encounter, you CAN throw yourself at it anyway and sometimes you win 09:44 <@Tone> They also have a spam filter you have to pass 09:45 aosdict: it depends on just how out of depth it is 09:45 if it's slightly beyond your abilities, you can rely on luck, or use consumables 09:46 if it's moderately beyond your abilities, you may need a lot of consumables to win 09:46 if it's very beyond your abilities, you will likely need consumables merely to escape, with no prospect of winning 09:46 <@mewpants> Ok and now we test 09:47 hi @mewpants, are you bubbles_? 09:47 <@mewpants> oui 09:47 looks like it worked then (unless you're someone else on Discord just pretending) 09:47 <@mewpants> Who would pretend to be a bubblebub? 09:48 <@mewpants> Do you think limiting items to a single material is short sighted? 09:48 yes 09:48 -!- PeterQ has left #hardfought 09:48 [US] [D]: JohnKeel (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 66 points, 343 turns, killed by a magic missile 09:48 there are levels of complexity that might be helpful in theory, but in practice would be such minor improvements to the game that it's unlikely to ever reach the point at which that is the most worthwhile improvement to make 09:48 You mean like object materials patch, or like a sword should be both LEATHER and IRON at once? 09:48 (such as the hypothetical "ray-traced light sources" I suggested a while back) 09:49 <@mewpants> ais yeah that's an annoying line, theory versus actual gameplay improvement 09:49 it wouldn't surprise me if multiple materials were one of those improvements 09:49 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:50 <@mewpants> aosdict both at once 09:50 [hdf-us] [nh343] CatPurrson (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 2848 points, T:3500, killed by a raven 09:51 it complicates object reactions to things for sure 09:51 -!- Bugpowder has quit [Quit: Bugpowder] 09:51 you get hit with fire - does your sword's leather grip burn? does the interior of your leather-covered spellbook burn up but the leather only gets charred? are these important questions? 09:51 hmm, if water hits a leather iron sword, does it rust or rot? 09:51 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 807 points, 2498 turns, killed by a coyote 09:51 <@mewpants> Or both 09:51 ais523_: I don't think water + leather = rot. 09:51 at least not in nethack. 09:52 to do both, you would need to add additional erosion fields 09:52 aosdict: hmm, really? is it just cloth that rots? 09:52 <@Tone> ais523_: I don't think nethack could be nethack if every encounter was winnable from pure skill regardless of game position, but my ideal for most roguelikes is for each game itself to be winnable based on player skill. So not individual monster encounters but a full win from start to finish. 09:52 ais523_: Leather can rot, but only from brown puddings. No environmental effects cause rotting. 09:52 <@Tone> Ideally you'd be able to advance in game position in such a way that each encounter is winnable at the time your reac hit 09:52 <@Tone> reach it* 09:52 <@mewpants> Tone agreed, your skill is amortised over the entire run 09:53 @Tone: I agree with this; however, I think "game position matters" is important to at least some extent, because if it doesn't matter it doesn't add much to the game; the game is thus about improving your position so that you can go deeper (this is a principle codified in Angband as "depth-resistance" but it exists in many other roguelikes too, 09:53 including NetHack) 09:54 going back to the original topic, I believe Crypt of the Necrodancer is not a roguelike because game position doesn't matter enough; there's no real incentive to improve it all that much 09:54 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54 -!- towardsdawn has joined #hardfought 09:54 (actually, when I play CotN I often get bored around Zone 3 because at that point, my position is already improved well beyond the point where it compensates for my shortcomings in skill, so the game thereafter becomes strategically pointless as there's nothing I can look for to meaningfully improve) 09:56 <@Tone> ais523_: Ah, yes in that case Necrodancer may be an example of a game that mostly fits something like the Berlin interpretation; but if anyone plays it then it's obvious that it isn't a roguelike 09:57 I need to write this up some time 09:57 <@luxidream> the challenge characters in cotn actually don't improve their game situation at all 09:57 <@Tone> For Necrodancer I'd say that since the nature of the game is that it's a rhythm game, that's where it departs from the roguelike formula 09:57 bubbles_: that was my suggestion? 09:57 I do not recall making such a suggestion 09:57 but ok 09:58 <@luxidream> it's not strictly a rhythm game either, since you aren't locked into making any steps 09:58 <@luxidream> you are free to choose 09:58 I consider it to not be a rhythm game for a different reason: you're just synchronizing with a steady beat, not with the actual notes of a song (which tend to be less steady) 09:58 <@Tone> Yes, but that seems to be the way the game was designed and balanced around? 09:58 indeed, but it still really disappointed me when I found out 09:59 <@mewpants> FIQ suggestion to not use the uncursed stuff internally 09:59 also it's forgiving enough that you can normally last several beats on the beats without actually looking at the beat indicator or listening to the music 09:59 <@luxidream> the game would be very difficult if you had to move to a song 09:59 <@mewpants> FIQ but to have some internal glyph system and convert to the ui layer only at the output 09:59 (except in Bolt mode, which seems to make it less forgiving wrt timing in addition to being faster) 09:59 <@mewpants> I can't play any game that requires timing 10:00 <@Tone> Don't enemies in necrodancer move when you don't make any control inputs? 10:00 @luxidream: I agree, but think the difficult version would nonetheless be more fun, you could compensate with extra HP or a better weapon 10:00 @Tone: if you don't make any control inputs within time, that's a "missed beat" which has a defined list of gameplya consequences 10:00 <@Tone> ah 10:00 and yes, they do move 10:00 one thing I've noticed with libuncursed 10:01 Which is sometimes useful. 10:01 <@luxidream> this requires you to do otherwise silly things like waste moves on purpose to line yourself up with enemies 10:01 normally it counts as a (bad) move in its own right and places a number of consequences on you 10:01 is that I think it's running afoul of a common emulation problem 10:01 it follows documentation, but doesn't implement various... quirks 10:01 at least that's what it felt like when I tried to port curses windowport to libuncursed 10:01 FIQ: it's not intended to implement all the quirks perfectly 10:01 there was a lot of weird small issues 10:01 <@mewpants> The big gotcha is the color_pair initi 10:01 despite the functions being largely the same 10:02 it broadly follows the API to make migration easier but bug-compatibility is not a goal 10:02 <@mewpants> init_pair even 10:02 <@Tone> Yeah I'd say that enemies moving out of sync with the player makes it not turn-based in the sense that roguelikes generally are 10:02 ais523_: Which is fair, but I got the impression that it was mostly compatible 10:02 I think of it as "turn-based but the turn is taken for you if you're slow" 10:02 with a few changes to initialization 10:02 anyway, I need to go, maybe I'll be back later 10:02 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: quit] 10:02 see you 10:02 <@Tone> See ya 10:03 <@luxidream> cotn is an orphan. the rhythm game community doesn't see it as a rhythm game, either 10:03 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 868 points, 2225 turns, killed by a hobbit, while fainted from lack of food 10:03 <@luxidream> and rightfully so 10:04 !tell ais523 I think the problem with this goal [making libuncursed largely API-compatible with curses] is that it kinda implies trivial porting of curses applications. With it not being "bug-compatible", why maintain API compatibility? It gets a bit misleading I think 10:04 No worries, FIQ, I've got this! 10:04 FR: A Fool Moon Night for CotN 10:04 70KPS 10:04 stennowork: lol 10:04 reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4n5EicKqvg 10:04 <@luxidream> o!m? 10:04 <@luxidream> gross 10:04 its super impressive 10:05 still 10:05 pls 10:05 its awesome 10:05 <@luxidream> just play lr2 or something 10:05 check it out anyway 10:05 <@luxidream> o!m timing windows are huge 10:05 dududududuuuu 10:05 dudud 10:05 :D 10:06 -!- bubbles_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:07 acai did a cover for guitar hero 10:07 wait 10:07 does that mean that you also like j-core hardcore 10:07 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 10:07 might it be that i am meeting the first person i know that also likes j-core 10:08 t+pazolite, roughsketch 10:08 CALL ME IT. (500 tortures) (500 bpm) 10:08 <@luxidream> yeah I listen to them sometimes 10:08 w00t 10:08 awesome 10:08 ooooh cookiezi did 500 torturese :D 10:09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZMdY75ezN0 10:09 <@luxidream> oshama scramble is one of my favorites 10:09 <@luxidream> osu steals songs from everything 10:09 :D 10:10 [US] [D]: StinkyGreene (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1656 points, 3562 turns, killed by a djinni 10:10 <@luxidream> then you get comments on bemani or original songs like "omg osu!!!! thumbs if from osu" 10:10 <@luxidream> sigh 10:10 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought 10:10 haha 10:11 my fav is 'you need and NEED AND NEED ME (reprise)' (or w/e its capitalized) from 'answers from x-girls' from t+pazolite 10:12 ah the oshama scramble is a bit too happy for me :D 10:12 this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKh9caDifFU 10:14 <@luxidream> I don't know if I like this, sounds like it would be fun as hell to play in a music game though 10:14 fair 10:14 YANI: all G will pick up any tools they happen to find on the ground 10:14 nethack astral on speedcore 10:15 it makes you feel cool :D 10:15 <@luxidream> I used to play camellia "ultimate ascension" on astral 10:15 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1398 points, 2805 turns, killed by a bugbear 10:15 -!- Hratt has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:15 i see 10:15 thats a bit more tranc-y 10:16 <@luxidream> yeah I'm not really into speedcore that much 10:16 fair 10:16 * stennowork is 10:16 speed gabber shit 10:16 frenchcore 10:17 <@luxidream> those tend to be evil songs in music games 10:17 <@luxidream> maybe that's why I developed an aversion 10:18 haha 10:20 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 654 points, 2502 turns, killed by a giant ant 10:21 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 661 points, 1069 turns, killed by a dagger 10:21 -!- Hratt has joined #hardfought 10:23 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 370 points, 689 turns, killed by a gnome 10:28 YANI: shopkeepers buy identified glass for the same price they would offer if it were unidentified (a few zorkmids). 10:29 It's silly that your own personal knowledge of the gem's identity makes it sell for less in the shop. 10:29 [EU] [D]: Dins (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 18645 points, 9005 turns, killed by a housecat 10:30 [EU] [D]: gargor (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2702 points, 7877 turns, killed by a hill orc called Rukuzog of Ogbaneog, while sleeping 10:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law), 248 points, T:894, killed by a gas spore's explosion 10:32 https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/blob/NetHack-3.6/src/shk.c#L2076 10:33 Andrio: If the shopkeeper sees you're not very knowledgeable, he shouldn't offer 5 zorkmids for unidentified glass. 10:34 He's stating that this is glass (whether true or not) by the low offer - so either he should buy actual glass for that low price, or he should offer 0 for unidentified gems. 10:42 * jonadab tends to like fast tempos up to a point, but speedcore crosses some kind of line. 10:44 mm 10:45 can't get much faster than speedcore 10:45 i think the is splittercore or w/e its called? 10:45 where you have 1k+ bpm 10:46 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pRpkbJdqVg 700 bmp 10:46 bpm lol 10:46 <@luxidream> no one actually likes splittercore though 10:46 [hdf-us] [nh343] CatPurrson (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 6521 points, T:4612, killed by a bolt of cold 10:46 <@luxidream> it just exists 10:46 true 10:48 -!- ais523__ has joined #hardfought 10:49 well it does have something to it 10:49 hmm, how much relevant conversation did I miss? I'm at work, probably shouldn't check the logs 10:49 we were just talking about music 10:49 OK, possibly for the best that I missed it then ;-) 10:50 FIQ left you a message 10:52 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Mon Dwa Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring an amulet of magic resistance, on T:13001 10:53 on which nick? 10:53 without the underscores 10:53 -!- ais523__ is now known as ais523 10:53 Beholder: messages? 10:53 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2019-11-07 10:04 EST: I think the problem with this goal [making libuncursed largely API-compatible with curses] is that it kinda implies trivial porting of curses applications. With it not being "bug-compatible", why maintain API compatibility? It gets a bit misleading I think 10:53 -!- ais523 is now known as ais523__ 10:53 YANI: Trappers and lurkers above are mindless, so they're not trivial to find and avoid/fight directly 10:53 FIQ: libuncursed2, if I ever get round to writing it, won't have a curses-compatible API 10:54 the main reason for partial compatibility was to make porting NitroHack easier 10:54 (I also didn't reject patches for improved compatibility - at least one was contributed and merged - it just wasn't a design goal) 10:55 what kind of API would you have in mind instead? 10:56 some of it is documented already, but I don't have access to the computer it's on at the moment so I can't post it for you 10:56 If I pop down a floor in the mines for a turn - some gnomes will generate carrying lit candles - then I leave and come back hundreds of turns later, will those candles have burned out? 10:56 the basic concepts were comparable to those in curses, but with more intuitive names 10:57 (a "buffer" is a rectangular array of characters in memory that need not have any relationship with the screen; a "view" is a rectangular subset of a buffer; normal API usage consists of writing the content you want to display into a buffer, then copying the buffer to the screen) 10:58 it took me ages to figure out what a curses "window" is; AFAICT, it's a libuncursed buffer, together with a set of screen coordinates that must be onscreen, by default a window to screen copy will copy at those coordinates but they aren't actually an intrinsic part of the window at all 10:58 aosdict: Yes 10:59 That's weird flavor then 10:59 <{Demo}> hmm bubblehack hella doesn't build for me 10:59 I think light sources run down in catchup_elapsed_time 10:59 it's not /that/ weird; if you kill the gnomes new gnomes will replace them, and the replacements will have lit candles 10:59 so I guess the flavour is that the gnomes chase you between levels, lighting candles to see their way as they go 10:59 "usually time doesn't pass while you're on another level, but the candles are gone and these gnomes must have stood around in their exact spots while the candles ran out" 10:59 and if you evade them, the candles burn down while we wait for them to come back 11:00 ais523__: But the Mines don't actually spawn new gnomes that often. 11:00 aosdict: in NetHack, time usually does pass on other levels, it's just that monsters don't move 11:00 In fact, they probably spawn more dwarves than gnomes because the branch is lawful-biased. 11:00 (did that "does" come out in italic? it was meant to but this browser is insane) 11:00 no 11:01 oh well, this is what I get for using a two-underscore computer ;-) 11:01 ais523__: I expect there is no way you can make italic text appear in my IRC client 11:01 irssi manages to translate *bold* and _underlined_ but not /italic/ 11:01 Pinkbeast: most IRC clients support it, even though some don't 11:01 IRC has control codes for bold and italic (probably also underline, I'm less sure on that) 11:02 not typed as part of the message but as separate characters reserved for the purpose 11:02 most clients can show those 11:02 some will just echo them literally, though 11:02 (confusingly, the code to toggle italic is at the codepoint more commonly used for the tab character, which can cause confusion with copy-and-paste from sources that use tabs) 11:03 <@mewpants> {demo} what errors you get? 11:05 are there terminal emulations that honor SGR 3? 11:06 which one is 3? italics? gnome-terminal honours that 11:06 yes, 3 is italics 11:06 and IIRC fbcon can parse it but has no idea how to render it 11:06 not so sure on that one though 11:06 (so all italic text just gets recoloured to an arbitrarily chosen colour, which is actually kind-of annoying) 11:06 [US] [D]: klintos (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 407759 points, 29448 turns, killed by brainlessness 11:07 ...apparently this browser corrects typos, I typed that as "annyoing" but it got sent correctly spelled 11:07 I think I remember seeing italics on a physical terminal that our library used 11:07 YANI: Rather than being inert, potions of oil that get hit by fire ignite and explode 11:07 <@mewpants> ais I think one thing in uncursed1.5 that might actually work is invert the storage of buffers 11:07 <@mewpants> ais so instead of the plugin requesting the character in the format it wants 11:07 the old library system was telnet based. fucking fast, not as slow as the html system they replaced it with (mind you, that was 20 years ago) 11:08 obviously they should have used ODA :-P 11:08 <@mewpants> uncursed would call into the plugin to store a character 11:08 <@mewpants> So the storage can be in window-native 11:08 <@mewpants> Not sure if that makes any sense 11:08 @mewpants: the reason I didn't do it that way is that I always planned to support rendering to multiple plugins at once 11:08 e.g. a ttyrec plugin + a terminal 11:09 <@mewpants> Ahhhhhhh 11:09 <@mewpants> I feel you 11:09 and they may sometimes have different native formats 11:09 <@mewpants> So that would double the storage yeah 11:09 <@mewpants> in uncursed2 can you make it so I can select which storage is used, so expose a utf8 api and a ucs2 api? 11:10 <@mewpants> (or ideallyjust utf8, and convert to a weird encoding for the weird terminals) 11:10 uncursed2 has only a utf8 API as it is 11:10 <@mewpants> ❤ 11:10 or, well, strings are always utf8, with one exception: a literal NUL character is encoded as \xC0\x80, not \x00 (this probably doesn't matter as you normally wouldn't use NUL anyway) 11:10 <@mewpants> I was tempted to use the tty plugin directly, but it works well enough that I don't care 11:10 <@mewpants> The only terminal that is very broken is Terminal.app 11:11 <@mewpants> But no one seem to care about it 😦 11:11 hmm, I haven't tested on that one (Mac OS X testing is hard) 11:11 what symptoms do you see? 11:11 <@mewpants> You can't set palettes, so you have to use 256 color mode 11:11 unfortunately I won't have access to my regular terminal for a while, so debugging might be hard 11:11 does it not work on the regular 16 color palette? 11:11 or does it support 256 color mode only? 11:11 <@mewpants> You can't programatically change the palette 11:11 <@mewpants> So it has one, but if someone has defined black as blue, you get a horrible background 11:12 oh, I see 11:12 that's perhaps something that's outside the scope of what I can reasonably fix from uncursed 11:12 <@mewpants> Yeah it's no biggie 11:12 (IIRC you can redefine the 256-color palette too in many terminals) 11:12 <@mewpants> I thought I couldn't pipe 256 color through uncursed (unless I'm co,pletely wrong) 11:12 fwiw, I've had players complain about NH4 overriding their background color, but I don't want to set foreground but not background 11:13 iterm2 can do italics 11:13 @mewpants: I don't think the tty plugin supports it 11:13 <@mewpants> Ah gotcha 11:13 <@mewpants> Yeah I think FIQ was saying there is an option to override it or not 11:13 stennowork: I'm pretty sure someone in the NetHack community (maybe even #hardfought) has been spamming iterm2 with feature requests 11:13 <@mewpants> I think nh4 does the correct thing 11:13 hah 11:14 ais523__, is it still a problem for iterm2 to reset the color palette after starting nh4? 11:14 because that used to be an issue 11:14 my current plan for libuncursed2 is to have three shades of "visible grey" as foreground colors, and then, out of the four supported shades of grey, pick the three that are furthest from the background color 11:14 -!- spontiff has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14 stennowork: I know there was a feature request to fix that, but don't know what happened to it 11:14 fair 11:14 oh its an iterm2 bug? 11:15 it was a bug, originally, they supported the palette set code but not the corresponding palette reset code, so libuncursed made incorrect conclusions about what it should do (and had no way to diagnose the problem) 11:15 i see 11:16 one of the many, many things I've been planning to do is to write my own terminal standard to help developers avoid problems like this, aiming at compatibility with existing terminals and existing programs 11:18 that said, from experience, whenever an application is incompatible with a terminal people always blame whichever of the two is newer, regardless of who is actually at fault :-) 11:18 <@mewpants> Ok I am going to try going full ECS mode 11:18 <@mewpants> Who knows how bad this will go 11:18 (well, not always: screen is incompatible with dgamelaunch watching, most people blame screen for that even though it's actually dgamelaunch's fault according to the standards) 11:29 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 11:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] kdg (Mon Hum Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2344 11:30 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 12521 points, 8184 turns, killed by a lynx 11:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] kdg (Mon Hum Mal Law), 4027 points, T:2466, killed by a priestess of Huan Ti 11:40 <@mewpants> {Demo} pokes 11:40 -!- Bugpowder has joined #hardfought 11:41 @mewpants: I just did a /whois for you: {Demo} is still connected but has been idle for 42 minutes, so probably isn't paying attention to IRC and may not be at the computer 11:42 also, has been connected since October 29, so almost certainly is in the habit of leaving the IRC client connected while not present 11:44 <{Demo}> has issues with memset 11:44 <{Demo}> and std::function 11:44 using namespace std; 11:44 some things i remember from 15 years ago when i did C++ 11:45 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2068 points, 3247 turns, killed by an elf zombie 11:45 stennowork: that's really frowned on nowadays I think 11:45 [US] [D]: klintos (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 2642 points, 3605 turns, killed by a snake 11:45 namespaces? 11:45 because if more functions are added to the standard library they may end up clashing with things in your code 11:45 oh yeah, makes sense 11:46 "using" on namespaces you don't control, specifically 11:46 gotcha 11:46 makes sense 11:46 <@mewpants> I don't do "using namespaces" 11:46 its like `import * from ...` 11:46 <@mewpants> {demo} what compiler? 11:46 <@mewpants> issues with memset is very weird. 🤔 11:46 are the parameters in the correct order? 11:47 memset is one of those functions where the correct order isn't obvious, and the types are such that if you swapped them the compiler might not notice 11:47 (that said, I think some compilers nowadays have warnings for, e.g., memset with a constant length of 0, which is very unlikely to be intentional) 11:47 <@mewpants> yeah, I think it's only used in one place: memset(light, 0, sizeof(light)); 11:48 <@mewpants> But sounds like it is a compiler issue 11:48 <@mewpants> Which is real weird 11:48 <@mewpants> And yeah, light is an array not a ptr 11:49 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 11:49 <@mewpants> Should probs use bzero but yolo 11:49 [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1410 points, 1386 turns, killed by a gnome lord 11:49 <@mewpants> Oh, it says bzero is deprecated, use memset heh 11:50 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 11:51 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 11:52 @mewpants: is "light" an array or a pointer? 11:53 you may be memsetting a number of bytes equal to the size of a pointer, as opposed to the length of the array it points to 11:53 <{Demo}> it might not have been the source of the problem 11:53 <@mewpants> mewpants:And yeah, light is an array not a ptr 11:53 <{Demo}> it was jus kind of wailing about a lot 11:53 (C doesn't track the lengths of arrays once they decay into pointers, so you need to track them manually) 11:53 <@mewpants> Sounds like just general compiler crappyness 11:53 <@mewpants> {Demo} can you pastebin the spam? 11:54 <@mewpants> errorspam 11:54 <@mewpants> It'll be that some system header is included by default for my compiler and not yours 11:54 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55 -!- spontiff has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55 <{Demo}> yeah I'll do it in a min or so 11:55 <@mewpants> Cheers baby 11:55 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 11:56 [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3692 points, 5611 turns, killed by a dart 12:00 [AU] [D]: Andrio (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1626 points, 3117 turns, killed by a dog 12:00 <{Demo}> http://0x0.st/zgDO.txt 12:01 hi nick 12:01 <@mewpants> oh yeah 12:02 <@mewpants> At the top of bubble.h can you add a '#include #include ' 12:03 <@mewpants> in libc++ (which clang uses by default) it pulls in headers more eagerly for some reason 12:03 <{Demo}> no cigar 12:04 <@mewpants> new errors? 12:04 <{Demo}> same errors 12:04 <@mewpants> Also I didn't know gcc hated #import 12:05 <{Demo}> oh I didn't add them high enough oops 12:05 <{Demo}> thanks 12:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:77407 12:06 <{Demo}> I can't move diagonally :( 12:06 <@mewpants> Not yet! 12:06 <@mewpants> NOT YET 12:06 <@mewpants> Ok good-o, thanks, I should do some github thing so it builds it for me on linux? 12:06 <@mewpants> I think you can do that nowadays 12:06 <@mewpants> {Demo} you are an x 12:06 I recommend pgup/pgdn/home/end as keybindings for diagonals 12:06 <@mewpants> \o/ 12:07 <@mewpants> It is hard coded to vi-keys at the moment :x 12:07 <{Demo}> as it should be :P 12:07 a) some terminals send those by mistake when using numpad keys, b) on UK/US keyboards they're close to the arrow keys and in the correct relative positions 12:07 <{Demo}> lol I walked off the map 12:07 <@mewpants> Ah okey dokey 12:07 'imma outta this' 12:07 (ofc you should be using vikeys instead, although of course actual vi doesn't actually support the diagonal bindings) 12:07 <@mewpants> It is literally just the lighting/fov 12:07 the faint typing noise grows louder 12:07 <@mewpants> ais true fact 12:08 <@mewpants> ais rogue-keys? :thinkception: 12:08 I don't have a ":thinkception:" emote, does it look like a thought bubble with another thought bubble inside it? 12:08 (if not, it should) 12:08 [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 126 points, 452 turns, fell into a pit 12:08 <{Demo}> why do walls warp when I can see them? 12:08 [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1514 points, 1968 turns, killed by a dwarf 12:09 <@mewpants> It's the thinking face made out of the hand of the thinking face! 12:09 <@mewpants> https://discordemoji.com/assets/emoji/4454_thinkception.png 12:09 {Demo}: are you sure you aren't playing HyperRogue? :-P 12:09 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 691 points, 1604 turns, killed by a rothe (and 2 other games not reported) 12:09 <@mewpants> There isn't much there, working on how to do items now 12:09 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 12:09 <{Demo}> don't let Amy see this map 12:10 <{Demo}> or it'll be in slex :O 12:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) chose an elven broadsword to be named "Orcrist", on T:77774 12:10 <{Demo}> (amy plz add the bubblehack test map to slex) 12:10 <@mewpants> What's wrong with it? 😦 12:11 lol 12:11 amy wanting it for slex is apparently an indicator that something is wrong with it 12:11 I'm not in a position to add that to the qdb, but assuming the participants are OK with that, it should be added 12:11 uhh what? I'm not seeing any map 12:12 LarienTelrunya: are you planning to add it to slex anyway, though, despite not having seen it yet? 12:12 RyanHill why name Orcrist 77k turns into the game as lawful? 12:12 <@mewpants> points? 12:12 (I haven't seen it either, I assume it's only in the bubblehack source atm) 12:12 <@mewpants> Do you get more points for it :hmm: 12:12 Guess so 12:13 ais523__: not sure; if it's in a format that can be converted to .des, I might want to 12:13 if you want to get the points for orcrist, probably best to name it on the high altar, unless you're worried about surviving the turn it takes to take it out of your bag 12:13 [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 825 points, 1072 turns, killed by a gnome, while sleeping 12:14 <{Demo}> I have a theory, given an infinite amount of a single type of plastic utensil and an infinite amount of tape, you can make any other Plastic utensil 12:14 <{Demo}> in less time than it takes to go out and buy one 12:14 if the tape is made of plastic, do you even need the original type of utensil? 12:14 perhaps you need it to save time 12:14 <{Demo}> how do u eat soup with tape 12:14 that said, making a knife out of a number of swizzle sticks would be difficult 12:14 <@mewpants> Wrap it round itself loads 12:15 {Demo}: if you stick the tape to itself enough it starts to become rigid 12:15 <{Demo}> I made a fork out of two knives and now my face hurts 12:15 <@mewpants> 'xD 12:17 -!- stennowork has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:18 [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 276 points, 752 turns, killed by a gecko, while frozen by a monster's gaze 12:18 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:3380 12:19 [hdf-us] [4k] Sneedshi (farfarello) (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 5967 points, T:638, killed by a blue jelly 12:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 1872 points, T:3243, quit 12:23 -!- eLtMosen1 has joined #hardfought 12:24 [hdf-us] [nh343] CatPurrson (Cav Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:10475 12:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:428 12:26 [hdf-us] [nh343] CatPurrson (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 24459 points, T:10665, killed by a gold golem, while fainted from lack of food 12:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Kni Hum Fem Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon her by Lugh, on T:20544 12:29 -!- ais523__ has quit [Quit: quit] 12:29 yarrrr 12:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law) made his first wish - "blessed rustproof +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:4843 12:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 249 points, T:1434, killed by a bat 12:33 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 12:33 wow 12:33 look at the swap chest 12:33 full of goodies 12:35 someone please dump a HOB into it? 12:35 [EU] [D]: spline (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 453 points, 1493 turns, killed by a gnome lord 12:36 [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1149 points, 1246 turns, killed by a dwarf king 12:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 216 points, T:709, killed by a hobbit 12:40 [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 115 points, 462 turns, killed by a boulder 12:40 [US] [D]: Grouchy (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 3698 points, 5210 turns, killed by a plains centaur (and one other game not reported) 12:41 [R] Clan Destine advances to rank 6! 12:41 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 132233 points, 15648 turns, killed by a minotaur 12:46 [EU] [D]: elenmirie (Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu), 152 points, 720 turns, killed by a bear trap 12:49 nice clan name 12:50 [EU] [D]: khamul (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 16118 points, 9552 turns, killed by an invisible troll 12:52 [EU] [D]: khamul (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 28 points, 117 turns, fell into a pit 12:58 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:59 [EU] [D]: thorsb (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 9950 points, 11616 turns, killed by a boiling potion 13:00 Current Day as of 2019-11-07 18:00 UTC: Games: 189, Asc: 1, Scum: 38. 639713 turns, 4876580 points. 6d 23:39 gametime. (36%Wiz), (69%Hum), (55%Neu), (54%Mal), 23d 05:59 remaining. 13:03 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06 [EU] [D]: spline (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 1281 points, 1532 turns, killed by a wand 13:07 [US] [D]: BEHiker91W (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 12903 points, 52668 turns, poisoned by Pestilence (with the Amulet), while paralyzed by a monster (and 2 other games not reported) 13:07 [EU] [D]: deki (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 14840 points, 7415 turns, killed by an energy vortex 13:11 <@mewpants> For lighting does nethack iterate ALL the lights and check if they are on 13:11 <@mewpants> Or add/remove lights as they are toggled? 13:11 <@mewpants> I'm looking through sourcveat he same time as asking 13:13 <{Demo}> nethack lightsources are the work of the devil 13:13 <{Demo}> that's all I know 13:14 [EU] [D]: ToneHack (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 221 points, 319 turns, killed by a goblin (and 11 other games not reported) 13:15 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:19 -!- raisse has quit [Client Quit] 13:19 <@mewpants> I see that 13:19 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20 -!- truculent has joined #hardfought 13:21 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 3620 points, 2411 turns, killed by a bolt of lightning 13:23 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 671 points, 2278 turns, killed by a water moccasin 13:24 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:28 [US] [D]: phorbin (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 103364 points, 21892 turns, petrified by losing gloves while wielding a cockatrice corpse (and 15 other games not reported) 13:28 oh wow 13:29 <@Tone> Destroy armor monster spell? 13:29 <{Demo}> mean :( 13:29 <@Tone> !lastgame phorbin 13:29 @Tone: No last game for phorbin. 13:34 of course in this game when i havent found a tshirt, i havent found the scrolls of devteam either 13:34 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:37 [US] [D]: Noah (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 31527 points, 11028 turns, killed by a forest centaur 13:39 ffs, smoky acid sucks 13:42 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 2478 points, 2036 turns, killed by a bolt of cold 13:44 <@mewpants> YES 13:44 <@mewpants> A LANTERN 13:44 <@mewpants> ❤ 13:44 <@mewpants> quaffing oil abuses wis right? 13:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:9825 13:47 <@mewpants> Woo my lantern runs out of power then stops being lit \o/ 13:47 <@mewpants> I am not sure if it is horrible what I have just made or not though 13:47 <@mewpants> https://qbin.io/nissan-pushed-d2ca 13:47 <@mewpants> The idea being if I want to add another item that drains charge per turn 13:47 <@mewpants> I don't need to have knowledge of it 13:48 <@mewpants> I just add that component to the item 13:48 <@mewpants> The syntax is just pure functions, they will compile to function pointers but I kinda like it all being in once place 13:49 [US] [D]: Noah (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 266 points, 1164 turns, killed by a guard 13:49 <@mewpants> Or if I want to add a permanently lit item, I can, fairly easily 13:49 <@mewpants> Is this yucky? 13:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law) rejected atheism by consulting with the priest of Hermes, on T:10454 13:52 [EU] [D]: Muad (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 2968 points, 3370 turns, killed by a wolf 13:58 -!- kimeemaru has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58 [US] [D]: itsame (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 2857 points, 2679 turns, killed by a wererat 14:04 so if you eat a ring of conflict, do you permanently generate conflict? 14:04 [EU] [D]: asdf (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 76564 points, 24704 turns, killed by the wrath of Venus 14:04 TOURNAMENT MILESTONE: 100 days spent playning nethack. 14:05 "playning"? 14:05 * aosdict complayns to K2 14:06 errmahgerd 14:06 must... fix... 14:07 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 14:08 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 3106 points, 2262 turns, killed by a human mummy 14:11 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 14:11 -!- Croesus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12 -!- Croesus has joined #hardfought 14:12 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Croesus] by ChanServ 14:13 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14 minor crisis averted 14:15 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 13083 points, 8998 turns, killed by a forest centaur, while praying 14:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:81531 14:29 Porkman: re eating rings I think you have a chance of getting it as an intrincisinc but I'm not sure 14:32 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 3551 points, 2057 turns, killed by an owlbear 14:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] lordjoe (Kni Hum Fem Law), 42020 points, T:22853, killed by a priestess of Brigit, while paralyzed by a monster 14:36 {Demo}: I think I fixed any build issues you were having and hopefully have not introcuced more 14:37 [US] [D]: zoya (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 7013 points, 8835 turns, killed by an elf zombie 14:46 [hdf-us] [nh343] CatPurrson (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 3341 points, T:2537, killed by a winter wolf cub 14:47 -!- hdf-guest-31 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Pri Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:11487 14:52 [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1310 points, 4348 turns, killed by a gnome 14:54 [US] [D]: oh6 (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 7268 points, 10473 turns, killed by a chameleon imitating a minotaur 14:58 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) became literate by reading a book, on T:3135 15:00 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 15:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 15:07 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 15:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 15:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 1762 points, T:3780, killed by a rope golem 15:08 [US] [D]: k2 (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 526 points, 1596 turns, killed by a werejackal 15:09 [US] [D]: k2 (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 28 points, 109 turns, killed by a jackal 15:09 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 15:16 uhhh 15:17 what is this place? 15:19 two players enter, one player leaves 15:20 <{Demo}> its porktown 15:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) averted death, on T:8753 15:26 [US] [Q]: phorbin (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3106 points, 3336 turns, quit (and 9 other games not reported) 15:26 statues worth smashing? 15:28 TOURNAMENT MILESTONE: 10000 games played. 15:28 <@malor> @Tone I saw you Ascended with 15 conducts! If that one is on video please upload it as I would enjoy watching it! 15:28 [EU] [D]: Dins (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 36174 points, 16380 turns, killed by a red naga 15:29 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:29 holy shit 15:30 i get all his stuff? 15:30 ohh 15:30 i get a couple itemis from his stuff 15:32 <@Tone> @malor I'm playing more than I'm streaming because of the tourney, but that game from the castle onwards will be archived here for the next 60 days: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/504471987 15:33 <@malor> Ok thanks 15:33 <@Tone> Also the video after that is a 16 conduct run from sokoban up to the wiztower 15:33 <@Tone> I'll finish that one tonight 15:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 5006 points, T:9203, killed by a plains centaur 15:33 <@malor> Nice 15:34 [EU] [D]: thorsb (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 4929 points, 6251 turns, killed by a bolt of lightning 15:35 my first porkie didn't get that arena level 15:35 [US] [D]: allanb (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2202 points, 6328 turns, killed by a goblin, while frozen by a monster's gaze 15:36 -!- hdf-guest-91 has joined #hardfought 15:36 <@PeterQ> How does the "never pick up an artifact" conduct work? Is there an exception for the quest arti? 15:36 <@Tone> No 15:36 <@Tone> You can't pick up your quest artifact 15:37 unique items aren't artis so they don't affect it 15:37 omg it's @PeterQ the convict! 15:37 also it's never *touch* one - dipping for excal or having it turned into excal by crowning breaks conduct, as does picking it up with gloves 15:37 <@PeterQ> Oh right, you don't need to "finish" your quest to ascend 15:38 Can you kick it? 15:38 no 15:39 that was a loophole I only became aware of in october 15:39 <@PeterQ> @bubbles_nh Strange you remember me for that 15:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:82663 15:40 aosdict: can pets use artis? 15:41 Shall i be evil and put a tin of medusa meat in the swap chest? 15:41 I guess they can't 15:41 *can 15:41 [US] [D]: dbanethacker (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 977 points, 1878 turns, killed by a rothe, while frozen by a potion 15:43 @PeterQ I play a lot of dnh and see your corpse EVERYWHERE 15:44 <@PeterQ> Orc convict starts are hard, ok? 😄 15:45 FIQ: If you can get your pets to use artis without touching them yourself, sure 15:45 I ascended a foodless atheist true polyselfless vampire convict :p 15:45 if that did break conduct, what's next, using confusion on hostiles with artifacts? 15:45 heh 15:46 yeah I figured that was excessive 15:46 I've never seen an @PeterQ bones though 15:46 K2: did Chris_ANG say there was some reason why dnh bones weren't as often as they should be? 15:46 <@PeterQ> @Porkman do vampires even need food? Even so, from what I remember Vampire is not that hard if you reach the mines 15:47 vampires start with intrinsic regeneration (and hunger from it) and need to drain blood from a corpse within...5? turns of killing it 15:47 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:47 no 15:47 he did not 15:48 <@PeterQ> @bubbles_nh Yeah, it's been over a year since I played. I guess it to the high score list so random corpses are named after me 15:49 [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 280 points, 777 turns, killed by a dwarf 15:50 [US] [Q]: ansic (Ran-Hum-Fem-Neu), 328998 points, 55927 turns, quit 15:50 <@PeterQ> @Porkman I remember that, it's also possible to gain some food on attacking with a bite attack, right? Does draining a corpse count as eating? 15:50 draining a corpse counts as eating yes 15:50 you get a small amount of nutrition sometimes from attacking too 15:50 [US] [D]: zoya (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1462 points, 3054 turns, killed by a watch captain 15:53 <@PeterQ> Then that ascension is pretty impressive. How do you even gain nutrition in that case? Did you get a ring of Slow Digestion and sustain on the attacks alone? 15:54 [US] [D]: Kame (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 316 points, 333 turns, killed by a giant rat 15:55 [EU] [D]: Dins (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1233 points, 2732 turns, killed by a hobgoblin, while praying 15:57 swap chest now has four DSM and three sets of dragonscales 15:58 that and booze/fruit juice 15:58 oh and i was atheist too 16:00 booze is 150 nutri 16:00 <3 16:03 <@PeterQ> Oh yeah, and all dwarfs except those in the mines carry it 16:05 -!- eraserhead97 has joined #hardfought 16:06 @K2 - small typo - "You feel the mysterious sapient pearwood container wants someting from you, first." 16:06 hmm 16:06 thanks 16:06 Which bit is wrong? 16:07 Other than the comma? 16:07 np ^^ nice job on this year's release - deathmatch's da bomb 16:07 [EU] [D]: Raisse (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1425 points, 3536 turns, killed by a dingo 16:07 bubbles_nh, someting 16:07 eraserhead97 thanks! aosdict did a great job making that work 16:08 Tangles did the server sync for last asc player 16:08 Thanks Muad 16:08 Sometimes I feel like I'm going mad 16:09 -!- kimeemaru has joined #hardfought 16:09 Did anyone have any critique of the bubblehack code I posted earlier? I'mkeen to get feedback before I get in too deep 16:09 i havent bubbles_nh 16:09 so not 'wants someting from you, first' 16:09 but 'wants someting from you first' 16:10 oh and the h is missing 16:10 I think written is better without the comma, even though there would be a pause when speaking. 16:10 https://github.com/bubblehack/bubblehack/blob/master/src/items.cpp this was the file in question 16:11 I'm trying to do some "component" based system, to *attempt* to reduce the special casing where it is not required (obvs for the fun artifacts/items it IS required) 16:11 ah 16:12 So for example if I wanted to make a book be a light source when it is set on fire, it just needs to do something like 'set("update:light-source", COMPONENT_ON); set("update:timer", COMPONENT_ON);' 16:13 But then the lighting code doesn't *care* if something is a book, a lamp, sunsword, all it cares about is items that are a light-source 16:13 oh cool 16:13 BUT I'm not sure if it's an overcomplicated overengineered pile of poo! 16:15 [US] [D]: Kame (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 1726 points, 2349 turns, killed by a soldier ant 16:16 The other idea/advantage is that creating new items should be able to be done in a config file with "low coding":"good variety" ratio 16:16 Again, not trying to remove all coding for unique fun effects though 16:17 [US] [D]: Kame (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 46 points, 223 turns, killed by a jackal 16:17 eraserhead97: fixed 16:18 bubbles_nh so are you redoing nethack on c++ with these base level type improvements? or will there be custom content too? 16:18 Custom content 16:18 [US] [D]: Kame (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 153 points, 206 turns, killed by a large kobold 16:18 neat 16:18 My priorities are: "crashing bugs", then "feels like nethack", then "content" 16:18 So feels like nethack means all your muscle memory should work 16:18 And if it doesn't that's a bug for me 16:18 yeah 16:19 well when its ready lemme know 16:19 the best way to test a game is to let the public have a go at it 16:19 -!- towardsdawn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19 [US] [D]: drunkenmister (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 718 points, 1582 turns, killed by a giant bat 16:19 -!- hdf-guest-91 has left #hardfought 16:19 [US] [D]: towardsdawn (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 572859 points, 41248 turns, killed by Pestilence (with the Amulet) (and one other game not reported) 16:20 the number of bugs and issues found and dealt with when evilhack was in 0.3.x phase was phenominal 16:20 Aye, when there is a working role and at least 10 levels worth of branch I'll start nagging people :-) 16:20 Oh, muscle memory. When you said "feels like NetHack", I was thinking lots of bad puns. 16:20 :) 16:21 There will defo be an optional evil mode which will e.g. prefer to spawn monsters with elemental attacks you don't have resistance for 16:21 But that's the future! 16:21 [US] [D]: Kame (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 283 points, 601 turns, killed by a hobbit 16:22 K2: Do intelligent monsters who get wands of invisibility, zap them at things like spotted jellies, in EvilHack? 16:23 no 16:23 but its neat that you mention that... 16:23 jonadab: why 16:23 Just why would you tell it to him? 16:23 muahahah 16:23 MUHAHAHAH 16:24 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 16:24 Also do you have a type of dragons with level-drain breath yet? 16:24 Also, I still don't understand why breath is a reflectable ray, rather than a cone-shaped AoE. 16:24 [US] [D]: larry (Arc-Dwa-Mal-Law), 253 points, 1210 turns, killed by a werejackal 16:25 or only dragon-refelctable like in dnh 16:25 :hmm: 16:25 Admittedly, the difficulty level of winter wolves would need to be bumped up a notch. 16:25 Although a cone would be cool 16:25 but friendly-fire might actually make it more beneficial? 16:26 * jonadab mumbles something incoherent about green Rs. 16:26 no jonadab, no level drain breath attack 16:26 -!- rebatela has left #hardfought 16:26 heh yeah green dragons have that lingering gas cloud 16:26 K2: I mean, Slash'EM has wands of draining. 16:26 (Which is terrible.) 16:27 i did make a sea dragon 16:27 have you seen it? 16:27 I haven't. I think last time I played EH was in late June or early July. 16:28 I'll get back to it at some point. 16:28 Probably. 16:28 its a fairly new addition, came with version 0.4.0 16:28 What I really should do is get a streaming setup set up, and stream EvilHack. 16:28 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/c0efa08e30e656f95ee212df0993d748475737d9 16:28 ooh that'd be cool. i'd watch that 16:28 I would probably get, like, 0.2 people watching my stream on average. 16:29 :) 16:29 Hipster streaming. 16:29 jonadab: i saw a fourk video of your on youtube 16:29 with your audio comment 16:29 was surprised because you didn't hit me as the kind of person who would do that 16:30 I felt like there just wasn't really enough NetHack-related content on there. 16:30 Still isn't, tbh. 16:31 So i need to sell out bubblehack to blizzard so they can pay streamers to stream it? :thinking: 16:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 6373 points, T:2142, killed by a marid 16:32 dragonspeaker no 16:32 :( 16:37 <@PeterQ> I just escaped a minesflayer by /digging on the 6th level of the mines. Guess what I found on level 7 16:38 Arc Lich @PeterQ 16:38 ? 16:39 <@PeterQ> No, another one 16:39 <@PeterQ> Nvm this one is a master 16:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 1628 points, T:1576, killed by a rabid rat 16:42 -!- phorbin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 16:44 [US] [D]: Kame (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 2662 points, 3398 turns, killed by a gnome king 16:45 I managed to kill a minesflayer by unloading my entire wand of magic missile (my only attack wand) into it and positioning it to get hit by bounces 16:46 it still knocked off half my health with a psychic blast though 16:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 268 points, T:960, killed by a small mimic 16:47 [US] [D]: Kame (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 337 points, 466 turns, killed by a bat 16:47 Grumble mm nerfes dnh grumble 16:50 dnh nerfs all 2d6 of a magic missile? 16:51 You can't get bounces 16:51 and it only hits one target 16:51 including the spell aosdict ! 16:51 EVEN THE SPELL 16:51 As I was moaning about earlier, it is the same pw efficiency as force bolt at XL30 (assuming expert attack) 16:51 force bolt can hit 2 targes 16:52 And no bounces so you can't double up on mm damage 16:52 I get Chris_ANG idea, mm was too strong 16:52 but eh 16:52 And sure breaking pots 16:52 But at XL30 pikcing up random pots is eh 16:54 sorry for spam, I press too often 16:56 imagines someone typing on the same line without using line feed, making a jumble of juxtaposed letters 16:56 [US] [D]: Kame (Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu), 911 points, 1734 turns, killed by a gnome 16:56 I do that too 16:56 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56 Also Muad isn't that called programming? 16:57 :) 16:57 [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 152 points, 172 turns, killed by a crossbow bolt 17:01 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:02 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 25117 points, 9285 turns, killed by a giant mimic 17:02 [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 495 points, 975 turns, killed by a gnome 17:03 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:06 Also how do you remmber anything Muad ? 17:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 544 points, T:1649, killed by a large mimic 17:08 <@malor> where is a list of all possible codes for the "conducts"? 17:09 it's on the hardfought tournament website 17:09 but if you type #tnnt i think it shows them all 17:09 (in the game) 17:10 you can filter it by the ones you've achieved or not achieved or both and it's like a checklist 17:10 or mahybe it's #achievments 17:10 it's one of those 17:10 <@malor> cool thanks. 17:11 <@malor> I'm not normally concerned about conducts, but when I play again I might look at getting more than I normally do. 17:11 <@malor> I don't know what this conduct means: "Zen" 17:12 <{Demo}> blind 17:12 <@malor> ok. So perma-blind in the config file, Ok. 17:13 <@PeterQ> Yes, and no using the monk quest artifact 17:14 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 17:15 it's actually really cool that you can look at it 'in-game" 17:16 with the # command 17:16 The guys tangles/k2? who did the tntntntntntt coding are awesome <3 17:17 aosdict did the achievement system 17:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:923 17:18 [US] [D]: richards (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 972 points, 2212 turns, killed by a gnome lord 17:18 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:18 And aosdict ! 17:18 arrayofstructs dictionary 17:18 one assumes 17:20 I also did the devteam quest and NPC deathmatch. Tangles did the swap chest. 17:20 <{Demo}> the npc deathmatch gave me k2 vibes 17:20 goddamnit 17:20 i got slimed 17:21 how does the deathmatch work? 17:21 do you go against a character that has ascended? 17:21 <@malor> yes 17:21 i did some work on both side quests 17:22 [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 3796 points, 3047 turns, poisoned by a water moccasin 17:22 I didn't come up with any of the side quest ideas (though we might do one of mine next year) 17:23 <{Demo}> fighting seems like a k2 idea 17:23 <@Tone> That may have been inspired by Antigulp iirc 17:24 you would have to check with teamsplat members for where the idea came from 17:24 <{Demo}> why has nobody been killed by it yet? 17:24 {Demo}: K2 made the deathmatch level and the code that fills up their gear slots if they're lacking gear or resistances 17:25 {Demo}: I guess we made them not tough enough! 17:25 <{Demo}> they were tough for my monk 17:25 <{Demo}> had to use my feet to hit them 17:25 <{Demo}> i just havent seen any death msgs 17:25 <{Demo}> maybe most ppl arent stumbling into it? 17:25 <{Demo}> or are coming in way overprepared? 17:26 [US] [D]: Kame (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 766 points, 991 turns, killed by a gnome, while frozen by a potion 17:26 If we end up with zero unintentional deaths to the npc this tournament, maybe next year make it so that if you leave the arena under ANY circumstance, that's it, no going back. Make the portal visible to compensate. 17:27 sort of YANI: *any* branches which are accessed by portals have the entrance portal revealed, not hidden (so this also goes for quest and ludios) 17:31 i think someone met me as an NPC and ran away 17:31 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 226 points, 742 turns, killed by a vrock of Anhur 17:31 if I teleport out of a shop w/a bag of illicit l00t, will the shopkeeper go roaming after me? 17:31 sure, why wouldn't they? Kops will be a more immediate problem 17:32 ic - thx - just wondering what I need to prepare before attempting 17:32 [US] [D]: larry (Arc-Dwa-Mal-Law), 482 points, 3529 turns, killed by an Uruk-hai 17:32 someone just yesterday stole 1 candle, teleported out, then later teleported back in and stole the rest of the stuff, then paid for the candle. 17:33 (the stuff doesn't cost anything when the shopkeeper is out, apparently) 17:33 that's clever! but in my case, I'm trying to make out with 23 bottles of liquids... 17:34 I also noticed that the last top I dug out of the shop, the shopkeeper took everything I had - so dropping items in the shop beforehand could also work (if he's in range of stripping me) 17:34 s/top/time/ 17:35 I think they won't leave the shop in the case where they grab your pack. 17:37 when I tried it, he fell through to the level below (coming after me after stripping me) - I only survived by his reading a scroll of earth and entrapping himself in a fort - that time, I wasn't really attempting to steal, tho - instead, I picked up a ?oSM and couldn't pay as it disintegrated 17:38 Chris_ANG broke stealing in dnh :-\ annoyingly 17:38 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:39 [US] [D]: k2 (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 36 points, 228 turns, killed by a water moccasin 17:39 eraserhead97, oh haha, that self-forting is funny 17:40 aye - I thought I was a goner for sure... ...I came back later with a wand of polymorph (to avoid murder penalty)... 17:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) was crowned "The Hand of Elbereth" by Tyr, on T:86180 17:43 <@PeterQ> @bubbles_nh @Porkman Do you know about the race/role "expert" artifacts in dnh? 17:43 eh, no? 17:43 what do you mean 17:43 like grandmasters robne 17:44 and robe of the archmage? 17:44 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:45 <@PeterQ> No, artifacts which can only be created by naming by a character that is at least lvl 20 17:46 <@PeterQ> These here https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:HBane/scratchpad 17:46 <@PeterQ> I stumbled upon them when code diving 17:47 which variant is dnh? 17:48 <@PeterQ> dNethack 17:48 ic - thx 17:49 right 17:49 if you get greenslimed 17:49 not only do you die (or blow up AOLS) 17:49 but if you don't die cause you have an AOLS, you smash your shirt/cloak/armor, and are polymorphed into a green slime 17:49 that took a bit to fix, had to kill two priests to get another robe :^ 17:50 [US] [D]: k2 (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 243 points, 405 turns, killed by a gnome 17:50 -!- Croesus has quit [Excess Flood] 17:50 -!- Croesus has joined #hardfought 17:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Croesus] by ChanServ 17:51 [R] Clan Kitten Lovers MEOW! advances to rank 5! 17:51 [R] Clan The Strong and the Bad advances to rank 12! 17:51 [R] Clan #pray advances to rank 7! 17:51 [R] Clan Destine advances to rank 6! 17:51 [R] Clan They All Float Down Here advances to rank 9! 17:51 [R] Clan It Explodes! advances to rank 17! 17:51 [R] New clan registered - Amateur Hour! 18:01 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha), 417 points, 841 turns, killed by a bat 18:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) genocided class :, on T:87808 18:05 -!- eraserhead97 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 18:07 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 18:11 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12 <@mewpants> eraserhead97 dnh is the best vanilla with stuff variant ever. Other variants do other things better (like being mean) but dnh is love and life 18:12 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 18:12 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 3299 points, 1963 turns, killed by a horse 18:20 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 464 points, 2451 turns, burned by a tower of flame 18:21 -!- ichbinmiah has joined #hardfought 18:21 [US] [D]: MHL (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2010 points, 4584 turns, killed by a giant beetle, while frozen by a monster's gaze 18:24 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 139 points, 745 turns, killed by a jackal 18:28 [EU] [D]: Muad (Mon-Hum-Fem-Neu), 10033 points, 3253 turns, killed by an Elvenking 18:32 oh for fucks sake 18:32 where is my staff! 18:33 fucking bullwhips 18:36 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:37 thats it, i need to create porkhack 18:37 Like vanilla, but without bullwhips? 18:37 What will the archeologist role do without one? 18:37 <@ShivanHunter> Welp it's turn 27897 and I'm dead 18:37 how 18:38 <@ShivanHunter> unihorn got cursed, have terminal illness from trying to use it, and no other ways to fix it 18:38 <@ShivanHunter> (without breaking one of my 542756348 conducts I'm trying for) 18:38 <@ShivanHunter> tbh this game was a bit of a dead end anyway with the lack of spellbooks 18:38 hashtag pray in gehennom? 18:39 Can't use spellbooks if going for all conducts. Because illit. 18:39 <@ShivanHunter> ? 18:39 <@ShivanHunter> not all conducts, but atheist is why I can't branchport/pray 18:39 Ah. 18:39 uh 18:39 how can non-atheists branchport 18:39 i mean 18:39 other than with artifacts 18:39 <@ShivanHunter> Eye of the Aeaeaueiaeuoaieu 18:40 <@ShivanHunter> (wiz) 18:40 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 405075 points, 27897 turns, petrified by tasting cockatrice meat (and 45 other games not reported) 18:40 <@ShivanHunter> ok RNG, don't fuck me over this time 18:41 [EU] [D]: amateurhour (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2217 points, 3196 turns, killed by a giant ant 18:41 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 18:41 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42 [US] [D]: towardsdawn (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 288 points, 928 turns, killed by a dwarf 18:42 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 18:42 [US] [D]: jackofclubs (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 18396 points, 8410 turns, killed by a plains centaur 18:46 [US] [D]: jah (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 520 points, 1647 turns, killed by a pony 18:47 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:48 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 18:50 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 142 points, 672 turns, killed by a small mimic 18:53 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:58 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1866 points, 2239 turns, killed by a soldier ant (and 35 other games not reported) 19:00 <@luxidream> @ShivanHunter polyselfless? 19:01 <@ShivanHunter> polymorphing cures disease? 19:02 <@luxidream> cures ill 19:02 <@luxidream> same race polymorph 19:02 <@ShivanHunter> oh bloody hell 19:03 <@ShivanHunter> well the game was going nowhere fast anyway 19:04 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 19:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 19:04 heya AntiGulp 19:04 Hi! 19:04 Hello AntiGulp, Welcome to #hardfought 19:04 Helllo Beholder :) 19:05 * K2 pets Beholder 19:05 you're a good boy! yes you are! 19:05 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 19:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 5283 points, T:7839, killed by a rothe 19:08 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Kni Ang Fem Law), 469 points, T:1191, defeated by a gnome lord 19:09 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 168 points, 805 turns, killed by Ms. Havic; the shopkeeper 19:10 [EU] [A]: noims (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2633650 points, 51019 turns, ascended 19:10 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/n/noims/tnnt/dumplog/1572862055.tnnt.html 19:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 1511 points, T:2646, killed by a falling rock 19:12 <@Tone> Hey guys, wrapping up last night's game on stream. Currently at the wiztower then going for the amulet and the ascension run. 19:12 <@Tone> Link here: https://www.twitch.tv/tonehack 19:13 -!- eraserhead97 has joined #hardfought 19:15 -!- spontiff has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) was given Xiuhcoatl, on T:769 19:17 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 19 points, 311 turns, killed by a jackal 19:18 YANI: Steampunk Role 19:19 …which I’m guessing already exists in slex 19:19 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Val Ang Fem Law) made her first wish - "3 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:1350 19:19 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Cha), 355 points, 758 turns, killed by a wererat 19:19 [hdf-us] [slex] Sanae (Ele Hum Fem Cha) killed Ruggo the Gnome King, on T:5551 19:20 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Val Ang Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:1351 19:20 <@rikersan> antigulp: sounds kinda neat, what would it do? 19:21 Assemble gadgets, perhaps? 19:21 Make contraptions? 19:23 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 19:24 [EU] [A]: Anerag (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2730224 points, 48930 turns, ascended 19:24 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Anerag/tnnt/dumplog/1573082580.tnnt.html 19:25 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 19:26 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: ZZAZZ] 19:26 <@rikersan> antigulp: hm kinda like a mechanically focused version of an artificer? pretty sure htey've been proposed before 19:26 <@rikersan> congrats anerag 19:26 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 19:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 19:27 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Val Ang Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 speed boots", on T:1361 19:27 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Val Ang Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 gauntlets of power", on T:1364 19:28 <@rikersan> why isn't there an enlightenment spell? 19:29 <@rikersan> YANI: spellbook of probing, acts like a wand but touch-range (t's enlightenment when aimed at self and skilled+ otherwise just probing), divination skill 19:30 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:30 <@rikersan> probably lvl 3? 19:30 <@rikersan> touch-range is debatable probably, since it's not very useful in general I'd say (but at skilled enlightenment would be nice) 19:30 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Val Ang Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed bag of holding", on T:1366 19:31 stethoscopes already exist 19:31 <@rikersan> yeah, but they don't do enlightenment 19:31 <@luxidream> level 2 19:31 @rikersan I’m guessing because it makes a lot game elements (identification, when it is safe to pray, the feelings of your god) much more trivial to check. 19:31 <@luxidream> might be op at level 2 in vanilla actually 19:31 <@rikersan> ^ that's why I made it lvl 3 since that's what ID is 19:31 <@rikersan> I think 19:32 <@rikersan> also jilles that was the point - I've personally found that both ! and / or enlightenment are semi rare, but enlightenment is neat 19:32 [hdf-us] [slex] Sanae (Ele Hum Fem Cha), 55695 points, T:5656, killed by disturbing their deity 19:32 It would be an excellent wish 19:32 <@luxidream> wish for...enlightenment?' 19:33 <@rikersan> doesn't sound like a good wish to me personally 19:33 <@luxidream> if it didn't give enlightenment it would be fine at L1 probably 19:33 <@rikersan> my thought was level 3 because it's not quite as good as ID - can't formally ID things, but that it can do god feelings, luck, etc. 19:33 <@luxidream> but enlightenment is such a powerful effect 19:33 Enlightenment can be used to ID a lot of useful things, check luck, check prayer, check god anger, and more. Getting it on command would be incredibly powerful. 19:34 At least in my opinion 19:34 <@rikersan> more powerful than +oID? 19:34 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Val Ang Fem Law) made her first artifact wish - "blessed fixed +2 Acidfall", on T:1371 19:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2735 19:34 <@luxidream> maybe have it give enlightenment at expert div, and make it level 2 19:35 <@luxidream> so it at least sees some use when probing is actually useful 19:35 <@rikersan> hm, that might work 19:35 AntiGulp, do you empty wands of enlightenment you find? ;-) 19:35 <@rikersan> basic - stethoscope, skilled - probing wand (inventories?), expert - enlightenment on self 19:35 -!- Bugpowder has quit [Quit: Bugpowder] 19:35 jilles: I don’t, but I should :) 19:35 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 847 points, 2377 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion 19:36 <@rikersan> also antigulp what's up with unlimited moon lol 19:36 @rikersan Unlimited Moon bad 19:36 <@rikersan> is it? it looks pretty bad lol 19:36 I’m working on artifacts right now, I should really fix it 19:36 <@luxidream> what does it do 19:37 <@rikersan> it's +d2 damage normally, but +1 per moon phase level I think 19:37 <@rikersan> i.e. a full moon is like +4 to damage, crescent is +1 19:37 Gains a bonus based on phase of moon. Problem is when I wrote the code, I didn’t fully understand the implications of the moon phase calculation, making it really hard to tell the damage it gets. 19:37 <@rikersan> something along those lines at least 19:37 Also, the damage is poopy and bad 19:37 <@luxidream> yeah this game has doomblad 19:37 <@luxidream> and bat from hell 19:37 <@rikersan> wait, doomblade is in spl? 19:38 <@rikersan> and bat form hell? 19:38 it's OK for a priest, since you can get expert in it 19:38 <@luxidream> yeah 19:38 <@rikersan> jesus 19:38 <@luxidream> yeha 19:38 Yup, but keep in mind they don’t get the flat damage bonus that they did in SLASH'EM 19:38 <@luxidream> obviously they don't do max damage 19:38 <@luxidream> but are still ridiculous 19:38 because that feature was stupid 19:38 <@rikersan> yeah but they're still hella good compared to p much anything else/ 19:38 <@rikersan> can't you get skilled club too though as a priest? 19:39 <@luxidream> expert I think? 19:39 I think expert, right? 19:39 <@luxidream> yeah expert 19:39 <@rikersan> yeah ok so bat from hell is pretty much always gonna be better than unlimited moon lol 19:40 Best splice artifacts are basically Gae Buidhe + Gae Dearg dual wielded / BfH / Acidfall 19:40 <@rikersan> what do the pair do? 19:40 <@luxidream> do they do anything special when dual wielded? 19:40 <@luxidream> individually they seem bad 19:41 <@rikersan> I don't speak weeb 19:41 <@rikersan> also that's wack irish though 19:41 -!- TheGame20 has joined #hardfought 19:41 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 16028 points, 9146 turns, killed by a Woodland-elf 19:41 <@rikersan> red and yellow field? 19:41 <@rikersan> I think? 19:41 <@rikersan> it looks like something from an anime 19:42 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarmuid_Ua_Duibhne#Famous_weapons 19:42 (Also I was watching Fate/Zero when I added them probably, so two things can be correct) 19:43 <@rikersan> last I checked gae wasn't spear but huh 19:43 <@rikersan> guess it's an old irish thing 19:43 <@rikersan> neat 19:43 <@rikersan> also I just confirmed - modern irish that's red / yellow gay (the adjective) 19:43 In Splice, one cancels monsters 1/3 of the time on hit and the other drains levels. 19:44 Because Splice wasn’t gay enough 19:44 <@rikersan> they can specifically be dual wielded? 19:44 ye 19:44 <@luxidream> ignores MR? 19:44 <@luxidream> the cancel 19:44 <@rikersan> doesn't look like it 19:44 <@luxidream> bleh 19:44 <@rikersan> just calls cancel_monst 19:44 <@luxidream> the damage on either isn't great 19:45 AntiGulp: you mean the +20 to damage bonus wasn't well balanced? :P 19:45 <@rikersan> what is bulg supposed to mean 19:46 <@rikersan> tha'ts shop? 19:46 FIQ: Hey guys why don’t we give rouges a guaranteed artifact that does +20 damage hahahaha balanced right 19:46 <@rikersan> didn't know that word 19:46 clearly the slash'em author was a rogue fan 19:46 <@luxidream> well I think 2 legendary weapons can do more than +1d2 and +1d4 19:46 <@rikersan> ah, also weird irish 19:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 13350 points, T:4205, killed by a panther 19:47 lux: Eh, probably. I’m working on rebalancing artifacts right now, then trashing the wiki page. 19:47 <@rikersan> antigulp: are you irish? or just found these from fate/go 19:47 [US] [D]: Smugzug (Bar-Hum-Fem-Cha), 471 points, 2080 turns, killed by a werejackal 19:47 <@luxidream> carnwennan is also awful 19:47 <@rikersan> is that nameable in splice? it's nameable in dnh and it's not bad as an early offhand 19:48 @rikersan originally found through Fate, and also because I occasionally binge read wikipedia pages on legendary weapons. 19:48 carnwennan is super trash 19:48 <@luxidream> +1d3 knife 19:48 <@luxidream> searching and stealth 19:48 <@rikersan> ew 19:48 <@luxidream> incredible weapon 19:48 <@rikersan> +1d10 to magic-seekers (trolls and stuff), stealth when wielded and invoke for invis in dnh 19:48 <@luxidream> I always wanted a +1.5 knife 19:48 <@rikersan> but it's nameable for knights so its' not bad 19:48 so that's why nobody uses white dsm in fh :P 19:48 it grants automatic searching 19:49 I’m of the opinion that there need to be some weaker artifacts to make sacrifice balanced, but carnwennan is absolutely way too weak. I’ve always believed that. 19:49 <@luxidream> there's plenty of garbage in the law pool 19:49 <@luxidream> like 19:49 <@luxidream> vanilla demonbane 19:49 <@luxidream> vanilla sunsword 19:49 vanilla demonbane lol 19:49 <@rikersan> do chaotics have anything good? 19:49 isn't it a long sword 19:49 which is stupi 19:49 <@rikersan> other than stormy 19:49 d 19:50 <@luxidream> riker: no 19:50 <@rikersan> lol 19:50 I ascended my first two games ever using stormy. I love it 19:50 <@luxidream> best pool is probably neutral 19:50 @rikersan [backscroll] Spell of probing has been proposed before; the reason I don't like it is that it breaks consumable-renewable by making the wand obsolete. 19:50 aosdict: you mean like 80% of spells do? 19:50 <@rikersan> aosdict: yeah, that's true, but prbings wands are hella rare imo? 19:50 <@luxidream> but then you fall into the giantslayer -> trollsbane ->ogresmasher black hole 19:50 <@rikersan> here, revised YANI 19:51 <@rikersan> in wand skill variants - merge probing & enlightenment wands 19:51 [US] [D]: bebing (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 530 points, 2256 turns, killed by a dwarf 19:51 FIQ: Well, it's easier to argue against this for a new spell than for fixing an existing spell 19:51 <@rikersan> skilled (or exp) is the cutoff for enlightenment on a self zap 19:51 <@rikersan> are you taking notes fiq :) 19:51 @rikersan actually, I think skilled+ probing gives enlightenment? 19:51 @rikersan Actually that is interesting as a regular vanilla YANI... give enlightenment when self-zapping probing, remove /oEnlg 19:51 and master gives spell list 19:51 <@rikersan> fiq: sounds fine to me :) 19:51 <@luxidream> because you didn't know your spell list...? 19:52 @rikersan the wand already works this way 19:52 <@rikersan> monsters too I presume :) 19:52 @luxidream works on monsters too 19:52 <@rikersan> aosdict: yea I mean IMO they're both rare enough, that's a fine change 19:52 <@luxidream> oh, monster spell list 19:52 <@luxidream> that's useful information 19:52 well, and yours 19:52 right now self zapping probing only gives you a clue to alignment 19:52 but that's less useful 19:52 :P 19:54 [US] [D]: k2 (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 12865 points, 7085 turns, killed by a warg 19:54 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 2856 points, 4436 turns, petrified by a chickatrice (and 8 other games not reported) 19:55 @luxidream do you think fh still has useless DSM colors? 19:55 I know you are blue DSM master race, but that seems more subjective I think 19:55 there's plenty of ways to resist slowing besides that 19:55 so that shouldn't be a dealbreaker alone 19:56 <@luxidream> worst ones are red, white, yellow 19:56 <@luxidream> name "plenty of ways" 19:56 free action 19:56 <@luxidream> that's one 19:57 just having spare blessed potions of speed 19:57 <@luxidream> that's not resistance, you can just get slowed right after that 19:57 and, of course, blue DSM 19:57 those are the means I think 19:57 <@luxidream> if you're unlucky 19:57 <@luxidream> so you have exactly one other way 19:57 <@luxidream> to resist 19:57 free action is useful overall though, not just to resist slow 19:58 it was a strong trinsic as-is that some people consider critical for Astral 19:58 due to paralysis 19:58 and yeah I figured red and white was the worst ones 19:58 <@luxidream> it's fairly rare to die outright because you don't have free action 19:58 <@luxidream> in vanilla 19:58 <@luxidream> it's mostly a precaution 19:59 idk about yellow, feels like a lesser anti-YASD protection to LS 19:59 that only works on petrification 19:59 <@luxidream> yellow is extremely weak and does functionally nothing most of the time 19:59 in addition to the elemental immunity 19:59 hmmm 19:59 doesn't lack of acid res hurt like 19:59 a lot 19:59 if you happen to be up against yellow dragons 19:59 <@luxidream> crowning gives half acid 19:59 <@luxidream> it's manageable 19:59 and the elemental res is *rare* 19:59 oh, right 19:59 I forgot about that 19:59 lol 20:00 @luxidream Wasn't there just an astral splat today where someone got paralyzed by a priest and then killed by Pestilence? 20:00 idk what to do about red or white 20:00 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 168 points, 486 turns, killed by a fox (and 9 other games not reported) 20:00 yellow might need a slight buff but I think it's mostly good as-is 20:01 <@luxidream> spork makes red give increase damage 20:01 there is no other way to get stone res without polymorph (and wonder) 20:01 I can't remember, does dtsund-DSM give secondary extrinsics to the scales themselves? 20:02 <@luxidream> $lastgame towardsdawn 20:02 @luxidream: [US] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/t/towardsdawn/tnnt/dumplog/1573161613.tnnt.html 20:02 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/t/towardsdawn/tnnt/dumplog/1572761711.tnnt.html 20:02 this is what you're looking for 20:03 [US] [D]: k2 (Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha), 419 points, 1166 turns, killed by a dwarf 20:03 <@luxidream> not paralysis 20:03 <@luxidream> from experience para-->death has happened only a handful of times to me 20:04 iirc Grasshopper once died to a rotten lump of royal jelly on astral 20:04 that was a bit rough 20:04 -!- eraserhead97 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05 @luxidream but what about white 20:05 <@luxidream> give white magical breathing or something 20:05 I don't think pseudo-WW is a very good effect, which is what spork does 20:05 ooh magical breathing 20:05 maybe 20:05 but magical breathing is less powerful in fh now 20:05 <@luxidream> how so 20:05 since somewhat recently 20:05 I made water be a delayed instadeath 20:06 a strangulation timer based on your constitution 20:06 shall i rematch pesty? 20:06 well, not really strangulation thematically, but yeah 20:06 similar to water elementals 20:06 has done for a while 20:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2672 20:07 <@luxidream> player is unimpeded by water turbulence when moving 20:07 there was a time when water elementals could engulf you on Water, move outside the bubble, making you die instantly once it expelled you (or died) 20:07 this wasn't really intended to stay in the game for as long as it did 20:08 I meant to implement both features at the same time but burned out for a time lol 20:08 @luxidream Hmm, perhaps give magical breathing + remove water turbulence 20:08 actually I think the term for that trinsic is "swimming" 20:08 already exists ingame 20:08 <@luxidream> does swimming allow you to pick up items from the bottom? 20:08 think so, but not sure 20:09 will check it 20:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) wished for "a blessed +3 silver dragon scale shield", on T:2862 20:10 ok so for some reason water turbulence still happens when swimming 20:10 that doesn't really make much sense 20:11 besides this, you're still basically underwater 20:11 <@rikersan> when swimming on top of the water? 20:11 so you can pickup items, etc 20:11 <@luxidream> I don't understand why there is water turbulence in still water 20:11 <@luxidream> like moats 20:12 <@luxidream> is it flowing constantly in a circle? 20:12 just checked 20:12 swimming makes it significantly rarer 20:12 but still possible 20:12 I guess that makes a bit more sense 20:12 but it should probably be even rarer or never happen at all 20:12 atm it's 1/12 vs 1/3 20:12 <@rikersan> oh hm, I've never seen that in dnh while swimming 20:12 <@rikersan> which is kinda funky 20:12 maybe I should make it 1/30, or simply never happen 20:12 <@rikersan> wonder if chris changed that 20:12 <@luxidream> because there are so many sources of swimming in vanilla 20:13 <@luxidream> I think Tone considered becoming a water troll for a turncount speedrun 20:13 -!- Bugpowder has joined #hardfought 20:13 actually turbulence is just annoying 20:13 <@luxidream> to deal with 3.6.x water plane 20:13 not really sure if it really adds anything to the game besides flavour and major annoyance 20:13 <@luxidream> with just magical breathing it's impossible to get anywhere 20:13 meh, I'll keep it since water is more accessible in general 20:14 but remove it fro swimming 20:14 completely 20:14 *for 20:14 <@luxidream> and wdsm gives swimming? 20:14 <@luxidream> but you can still get suffocated by water elementals right? 20:14 yes 20:14 yes 20:14 <@luxidream> so that makes it worse than magical breathing in a way 20:15 I suppose 20:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 4498 points, T:3426, killed by a dwarf 20:15 I'm not sure if I have a problem with not making them a nonthreat, but it means WDSM might still be kinda useless 20:15 maybe I should just give both 20:15 WDSM gives waterproof as-is 20:15 so there's already partial water attunement to it 20:16 <@luxidream> well I'll keep a diving suit in FH then 20:16 (waterproof: items are immune to water damage) 20:16 <@luxidream> and let you know how it goes 😛 20:16 Heh 20:16 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 38 points, 163 turns, killed by a sewer rat 20:17 -!- Bugpowder has quit [Client Quit] 20:17 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19 FIQ: port sea dragons from evilhack, there's your 'water attunement' :P 20:21 [US] [D]: bebing (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 544 points, 1627 turns, killed by a dwarf 20:22 aosdict: heh 20:22 [AU] [D]: Numbgoon (Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu), 119927 points, 23353 turns, petrified by a cockatrice 20:22 <@luxidream> port gelcubes from evilhack 20:22 <@luxidream> :p 20:23 paralyze+strangle? 20:23 or are they different from grunt? 20:24 <@luxidream> oh I forgot it's from grunt 20:25 You and Pestilence 20:25 went to your reward with 2330239 points, 20:25 [US] [A]: porkman (Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu), 2330239 points, 46934 turns, ascended (and 8 other games not reported) 20:25 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/porkman/tnnt/dumplog/1572997478.tnnt.html 20:25 [hdf-us] [spl] kdg (Pir Hum Mal Cha), 621 points, T:1284, killed by a bone crossbow bolt 20:26 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 20:26 @luxidream remember to include the bug where teleporting yourself out of the cube continues to strangle you to death 20:26 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:27 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1984 points, 2051 turns, killed by a wererat (and 35 other games not reported) 20:28 I've probably forgotten to handle some of the water elemental escape clauses 20:28 but fh takes care of them during turn end anyway as a fallback 20:29 would still be nice to know if I did though, to fix odd messages 20:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] kdg (Ana Hlf Mal Cha), 1008 points, T:1573, quit 20:30 Porkman: slime+taming? 20:30 no 20:30 or poly in general 20:31 you have to level drain him to lvl 0 20:31 oh regular taming works? 20:31 [US] [D]: Smugzug (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1081 points, 3000 turns, killed by a dwarf zombie 20:31 that was revenge for him splatting me on astral earlier 20:31 haha 20:31 if he is level drained yeah 20:33 !tell K2 minor change: white dsm gives swimming, magical breathing, also swimming never causes turbulence anymore 20:33 K2 shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, FIQ. 20:33 cool 20:33 K2: Message from FIQ at 2019-11-07 20:33 EST: minor change: white dsm gives swimming, magical breathing, also swimming never causes turbulence anymore 20:33 I could port spork's RDSM change but if possible I'd think of something different 20:33 [US] [D]: ArcaneNH (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 17408 points, 10034 turns, killed by a wumpus 20:33 you should oook at evilhack's dsm changes 20:33 rdsm is fire res + infravision? 20:34 look even 20:34 K2: so we should become the Librarian from Discworld. 20:34 yup 20:35 <@luxidream> wow that's so much better than fiqhacks 20:35 <@luxidream> wait 20:36 K2: RDSM in fiqhack gives infravision, see invisible and warning 20:36 evilhack also has DSM passive attacks right? 20:36 DSM changes are right above this header: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/FIQHack#Changes_applicable_to_junethack_2018 20:36 [US] [D]: pur (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 832 points, 3619 turns, killed by a homunculus, while fainted from lack of food 20:37 K2: your changelog entries for dragon scale mail are so non-vague and enlightening 20:37 aosdict: link 20:37 K2 generally has a habit of not actually telling what he changed 20:37 I'm browsing the evil repo locally 20:37 kinda like vanilla does 20:38 it's an annoying habit 20:38 it's in doc/evilhack-changelog-blahblah 20:38 <@luxidream> part of the evil is not telling players any changes 20:38 <@luxidream> :p 20:39 hmm 20:39 evilhack wiki page lists effects 20:39 I was considering giving red DSM curse res, but it doesn't fit 20:39 more appropriate to GDSM which really doesn't need any buffs 20:39 (gray DSM that is) 20:39 unless something about red color gives curse res :P (the ruby heart also does) 20:40 I think your DSMs are turning into a bit of a dnethack style arms race 20:40 aosdict: Yeah, possible 20:40 But I use GDSM and SDSM as baseline 20:40 If my buffs become stronger than those, then they'd need nerfing 20:41 and I will specifically not buff those 20:41 FIQ you are fake news 20:41 [US] [D]: porkman (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 492 points, 1787 turns, killed by a dwarf 20:41 if they're took weak, that means I overbuffed 20:41 K2: ? 20:41 my commits are actually very verbose 20:41 magic 8ball was completely unmentioned in changelog 20:41 save one or two (on purose) 20:41 had to source dive for stuff 20:41 wut 20:41 no its in the change log 20:41 hm 20:42 since? 20:42 I might have checked when it wasn't 20:42 since the beginning of time 20:42 despite the code definitely being there 20:42 K2: can you explain the wiki page's assertion that CPM's transparency to magic might make some people feel like it's a 'bad thing'? 20:42 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack 20:42 "transparency to magic" doesn't appear to have any downsides 20:42 like, spells hit you harder or something? 20:42 note how magic 8ball goes completely unmentioned here 20:42 among new items, etc 20:43 8 ball is mentioned 20:43 and there is no link to a more extensive changelog 20:43 no? I did ctrl+f 20:43 to check 20:43 - Add some flavor to the Magic 8-Ball 20:43 ^ that 20:44 FIQ: Hypothetical Optimal Man will still want to get the 8-Ball and a source of indefinite food and lock themselves in a closet to wrest its wish 20:44 K2: there, found it 20:44 sorry 20:44 also double-checked revision history 20:44 to when I looked at the article last time 20:44 and it was there then too 20:45 aosdict: uh? 20:45 should fix all those redlinks 20:45 did you mean to ping me? 20:45 yes 20:45 well 20:45 you're not wrong 20:45 but I haven't really said anything different 20:46 is the oracle still a pushover 20:46 I think it's a bad artifact 20:46 yeah 20:46 what the 8 ball? 20:46 do i have to call you fake news also? 20:47 it doesn't do anything except make the player want to spam it for a wish 20:47 false 20:47 you are alternative facts 20:47 (note that there aren't any unspoiled evilhack players so rumors don't really do anything) 20:47 <@luxidream> change it to 1 in 1 million 20:47 <@luxidream> problem solved 20:47 aosdict again false 20:47 and you were offended when I complained about stuff in your variant a while back ;) 20:47 oh i'm not offended 20:48 <@ShivanHunter> I would still just fill up soko with acid blobs and wait 1 million turns for a wish 20:48 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 148 points, T:268, killed by a sewer rat 20:48 I was merely mocking you replying to me and aosdict with fake news 20:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2711 20:48 but i dont sit and not retaliate either ;) 20:48 when you reacted significantly when I complained about evilhack zombies a while back 20:48 ah that 20:48 i have no recollection 20:49 :P 20:49 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack#Dragon_scale_mail 20:49 you basically told me "you haven't played evilhack, your opinions are invalid and useless" 20:49 wasnt me 20:49 if you want to keep the 8-ball in as a fun thing here's what you could do: remove it as an artifact, leave the "eight ball" item as it is 20:50 dunno what you're talking about 20:50 you read the eight ball, you get the funny messages 20:50 aosdict nah i like it as an artifact 20:50 it confers warning 20:50 K2: are those DSM effects symmetrical? 20:50 yup 20:50 cool 20:50 i still need to do mhitm 20:50 so monsters can walk on water with WDSM 20:50 making it into ice 20:51 neat 20:51 and dragons have the same passive ability 20:51 cuz you know, its their skin 20:51 -!- Kontroller1 has joined #hardfought 20:51 obviously 20:51 lol 20:51 :) 20:51 your sea dragon scale mail basically does what my white dsm does 20:52 minus cold res 20:52 yeah neat 20:52 -!- Kontroller has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:52 i need to implement the zero turbulence thing 20:52 mine also gives waterproof, I don't think that would make much difference in your variant unless water E can engulf+drown you in evil 20:52 it can 20:52 as can an adult sea dragon 20:52 You see here a +5 bullwhip (54 zorkmids) 20:53 buy it 20:53 nah 20:53 hmm 20:53 technically making SDSM give cold res would make sense 20:53 but I'll refrain to 20:53 YANI: A Minetown with a jewelry store in it. Why aren't there any as is? 20:53 it does not need the buff 20:53 also it'd mean cold immunity in fh which, in practice, is a stronger trinsic... 20:53 initially GDSM and SDSM has no secondary intrinsic 20:54 <@rikersan> I liked dnh's - gdsm is half spell dmg 20:54 but it felt out of sync with the rest 20:54 trinsic is a word? 20:54 sure 20:54 <@rikersan> but on the other hand, slotless MR is hella easy to get in dnethack so gdsm is useless otherwise 20:54 Muad: I use it when I refer to intrinsic or extrinsic 20:54 basically when the way it is conferred doesn't matter and I'm talking about properties 20:54 in general 20:54 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 710 points, T:1301, killed by a kitten 20:54 just to differ it from obj properties and various other kinds of properties 20:54 aosdict: did you see my MP proposal 20:54 of course.. i guess it's more convenient than footrinsic 20:54 a while back 20:55 FIQtrinsic 20:55 FIQ: I may or may not have. If this was march through august, then probably not. 20:55 <@luxidream> intrinsfiq 20:55 merge monMR and MC 20:55 im back on NDNH 20:55 into magical protection, MP 20:55 FootRinsic(r) the best soap for washing your feets 20:55 YANI 20:55 make it show at all times like AC, etc 20:55 just in case it didn't get caught last time :) 20:55 your natural form confers little to no innate MP but armor can boost it 20:56 <@rikersan> porkman: ah yes, the dnh version made by the other crackhead dnh player (the first being you, of course) 20:56 monsters have various levels of MP like they have monMR now 20:56 ...why me crackhead? 20:56 all things that MC and monMR works against work for MP, using the monMR formula (maybe make it less complicated, it's a bit unintuitive atm) 20:56 FIQ: yeah sounds like a good idea. I wonder what jonadab thinks. 20:57 <@rikersan> porkman: general outlook on exploits/unintended features 20:57 I was also considering giving various levels of MP depending on material and armor weight but I was far less certain what to do about this 20:57 and was also considering making it symmetrical with spell failure -- also not sure about this 20:58 <@rikersan> hah, there's a function in nethack called "finesse_ahriman"? fun name I guess 20:58 (basically having it flavour-wise interfere with magical abilities -- both defensively and offensively) 20:58 FIQ: That seems like it might get a little conflatey with MC's definition as "the amount of body you're covered, so touch attacks don't work" 20:58 <@luxidream> perhaps a name that doesn't appear to be "magic points" would probably be better 20:58 aosdict: I figured touch attacks was magical in nature 20:59 but yeah, I'm not sure about those ideas overall 20:59 well magical touch attacks, yes 20:59 I do, however, like the MP idea in general 20:59 MC currently does not affect nonmagic touches 20:59 @luxidream yeah I considered that, but couldn't come up with a better name 20:59 or nonelemental 20:59 and calling it MC would confuse everyone 20:59 and monMR is a bad name in first place 21:00 that's another point: currently MC protects against touch attacks that are *not* magical (like fire ants) 21:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 10461 points, T:3945, killed by a Mordor orc 21:02 [US] [D]: bebing (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1205 points, 2469 turns, killed by an imp 21:02 so would merging it into an explicitly magical protection have ramifications like this? 21:02 aosdict: I did not consider what to do about those kind of attacks 21:03 I figured to keep it working like it does right now 21:03 but one could always special case if that would make sense... but idk if I like doing that 21:03 it seems inconsistent to me 21:04 Actually *most* of the damage types MC protects against are nonmagical, or at least the majority, arguably 21:05 liches and elementals presumably perform magical elemental attacks 21:05 fire cold shock sleep DRST DRDX DRCO sticky sliming lycanthropy 21:05 the vast majority, if not all, poison attacks would be nonmagical 21:05 flavour-weise 21:06 *flavour-wise 21:06 aosdict: but I think changing this is a mistake 21:06 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 21:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 21:06 it merely just means that MC is a bad name 21:06 thematically 21:06 I agree there 21:06 (and MP would be likewise) 21:06 <@rikersan> I've always thought antimagic was an interesting name for MR as wel 21:06 so you need a better name than magic protection 21:07 <@rikersan> since it to me implies you're cancelled as well (can't do magical stuff) 21:07 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 3685 points, 4346 turns, poisoned by a killer bee (and 59 other games not reported) 21:07 <@ShivanHunter> bollocks 21:07 Evil Patch Idea: magic resistance makes you unable to cast spells 21:07 (especially because "magic resistance" is a thing. imagine explaining to newbies "no, your magic resistance and your magic protection are totally separate") 21:07 FIQhack updated (all servers) 21:07 "oh, and that cloak of magic resistance also grants some magic protection" 21:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) wished for "a blessed +3 silver dragon scale shield", on T:1346 21:08 <@rikersan> that's such a wack wish 21:08 However, on the monster side of things, monMR seems to be primarily used for magic. 21:08 aosdict: that particular part wouldn't be that strange since all cloaks give some measure of MC atm 21:08 <@rikersan> considering his quest artifact is a shield that grants reflection 21:08 but the former: yeah 21:08 aosdict to answer your question about CPM magic transparency being 'a bad thing' - i wa smulling over the idea of having it be so transparent to magic that you wouldnt be able to cancel it, uncurse it if cursed, etc 21:08 that would be problematic 21:08 yup 21:09 decided against it 21:09 * aosdict wants to smull things 21:09 but that was all part of the back story for cpm 21:09 I like that effect 21:09 double-edged things = good 21:09 would that mean that you'd be forced to polyself to get rid of cursed CPM 21:09 [US] [A]: ToneHack (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1439388 points, 35868 turns, ascended (and 77 other games not reported) 21:09 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/T/ToneHack/tnnt/dumplog/1573064301.tnnt.html 21:09 aosdict: could be an item property 21:10 object property that is 21:10 but having players actually want to use cpm made me decide against it 21:10 i may revisit 21:10 magic-negating or something 21:10 FIQ: presumably you could still use holy water, which isn't "magic" 21:10 holy water is jesus magic 21:10 can't be cursed 21:10 with curse items 21:11 nor destroyed with destroy armor 21:11 or cancelled 21:11 but also can't be enchanted 21:11 or other positive magical effects 21:11 nor polypiled I suppose 21:11 FIQ: Rather than an object property, the way to make this work in evilhack is apply that to any armor with GEMSTONE material. 21:11 * K2 imagines aosdict trying to smull something, starts to dry heave 21:12 aosdict: ah 21:12 And then remove crystal plate mail as an item, allow regular plate mail to generate as GEMSTONE 21:12 K2: taking notes? 21:12 no 21:12 ADOM has crystal as possible material for weapons and armor 21:12 irc client log everything 21:12 you could have crystal shields and crystal helms 21:13 iirc it can't be smithed or enchanted, but has overall much higher stats for the point in the game you start seeing it 21:13 YANI ^^^ 21:13 in evilhack some dwarvish weapons spawn made of gemstone 21:13 Also, according to current evil CPM implementation, can't shatter. 21:14 <@rikersan> aosdict: why not crystal gauntlets as well? or are those already present 21:14 does gemstone impede spellcasting? 21:14 the only gemstone material armor in eh is cpm 21:14 @rikersan sure, would work on any armor item that currently generates as a hard material 21:14 no it doesnt 21:14 ok 21:15 of course, it could be restricted so that you can't have crystal ring mails, etc 21:15 <@rikersan> aosdict: hm, crystal gauntlets of power would be quite good 21:15 or other silly stuff 21:15 quite good and quite rare 21:15 or can you materialwish in eh? 21:15 if you make it impossible to (dis)enchant crystal equipment 21:15 ^ also this 21:15 would you alter enchantment odds or leave it as-is? 21:16 wdym by altering enchantment odds 21:16 rne 21:16 At item generation time. 21:16 yeah 21:16 I'd think that all crystal armor generates as +0. 21:16 that is what I was asking 21:16 ahh 21:16 Because armor that generates as +/- something has been enchanted or disenchanted by someone else previously. 21:16 so no innate variety 21:17 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 21:17 If it's impervious to enchantment, that can't have happened. 21:17 (It still might be cursed though.) 21:17 So why is the player gonna choose to use it, if it's +0 permanently? 21:17 I suppose 21:17 what jonadab said 21:17 I'm just used to ADOM which actually lists the base number instead of enchantment level 21:17 jonadab: high base material AC that does not impede spellcasting and cannot become cursed 21:17 Ah. 21:17 so higher/lower wouldn't be nonsensical there -- it's merely just production variation 21:18 or destroyed with destroy armor 21:18 Wait, if it can't become cursed, how did it possibly get cursed? 21:18 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 1011 points, 1636 turns, killed by a dwarf (and 45 other games not reported) 21:18 <@rikersan> generated cursed? or unholy water 21:18 unholy water 21:18 jonadab: It's impervious to cursing via spell only. 21:18 <@rikersan> I'm pretty sure it's blocked from cursed from the curse items spell 21:18 Ah, ok. 21:18 If you (or the floor god) wants it cursed, you can still get it cursed. 21:18 aosdict: does bones cursing happen as a magical effect 21:18 or divine intervention 21:19 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 13 points, 110 turns, killed by a newt (and one other game not reported) 21:19 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19 Divine intervention yes. 21:19 ok 21:19 Bones cursing is not a magic spell. 21:19 [hdf-us] [slex] Sanae (Ama Moo Fem Law), 544 points, T:1230, petrified by a hobbit 21:19 Your god isn't casting magic on it to uncurse it, it's holy power or some such. 21:19 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 21:19 Probably same for bones cursing too. 21:20 Unless the variant has flavor of someone coming along and deliberately cursing the pile. 21:20 If anything, that would be the shade/whatever of the former owner. 21:20 But any effects from remove curse scrolls should not work either. 21:20 <@rikersan> rodney actually just walks up and sprinkles unholy water all over it 21:21 [US] [D]: bebing (Arc-Hum-Mal-Neu), 769 points, 1065 turns, killed by a tiger 21:21 [US] [D]: hothraxxa (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 4062 points, 4501 turns, killed by a scorpion 21:21 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 31 points, 309 turns, killed by a kobold zombie (and 20 other games not reported) 21:21 EPI: whenever you uncurse something, either via scroll or spell or holy water, the curse has to _go_ somewhere. So some other object somewhere in the game gets cursed. 21:22 Law of Preservation of Curses. 21:22 <@rikersan> it prioritizes bags of holding, wielded weapons/worn armor, unicorn horns, and invocation items right? 21:22 [US] [D]: k2 (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 3481 points, 4244 turns, killed by a soldier ant 21:23 god 21:23 who had the idea of LAVA lokoban 21:24 <@rikersan> demo 21:24 EPI: you know how GruntHack has a ton of water all over the Mines? That's a pretty good idea, but it's not evil enough. Instead of water, that should be lava. HTH.HAND. 21:26 in evilhack there's a 1% chance the water rivers in the mines are lava instead 21:26 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 21:26 <@rikersan> EPI: lava and water can't be farlooked as anything other than "lava or water" until stepped in 21:26 <@rikersan> and they're both blue :) 21:27 <@FIQ> jonadab: if players have no items to curse with that game's equivalent to curse items 21:27 <@FIQ> the player is cursed 21:28 <@FIQ> if already cursed, the player is doomed 21:28 <@rikersan> final fantasy style doom? :D 21:28 <@FIQ> idk what ff does 21:29 <@FIQ> adom dooming is not a very good trinsic 21:29 <@rikersan> it's delayed instadeath, not curable by any means other than dying and being revived or having the battle end 21:29 <@FIQ> ah 21:29 <@FIQ> not quite that bad 21:30 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:31 FIQ: When you get a chance, you should look over my plans for monster-player spellcasting merge in xnh which will be the major feature of 0.6.0 21:31 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Ana Inc Mal Cha) completed Lokoban, on T:4007 21:32 <@FIQ> cool 21:32 <@FIQ> I will 21:32 bottom of the xnh etherpad at https://www.hardfought.org/etherpad/p/xNetHack 21:33 [US] [D]: jah (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2486 points, 2819 turns, killed by a giant spider 21:34 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 645 points, 1473 turns, killed by a gnome (and 9 other games not reported) 21:38 K2: Thoughts on releasing NewSplice, other than that it will screw over Ardub’s very nice run? 21:38 why would it screw over his run? 21:39 Oh, he got a wand of wishing earlier tonight and got like 7 wishes off it. I’m mostly joking lol 21:40 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 489 points, 871 turns, killed by a cave spider (and 26 other games not reported) 21:44 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: ZZAZZ] 21:45 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 21:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 21:58 YANI: Peaceful unicorns automatically anger if they see you wielding or applying a unicorn horn. 21:58 It does make me wonder how unicorns of different alignments get along with each other. 21:58 I wouldn't think very well. 21:59 Well, can add "unicorns of different alignments grudge each other" too 21:59 Did you just assume the alignment of my unicorn horn?! 22:00 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 22:04 -!- Announcy has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:05 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05 <@scj643> Lol 22:07 [US] [D]: jmcunx (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 516 points, 2180 turns, killed by a Kop Lieutenant 22:09 <@scj643> What's the weirdest death someone has gotten in nethack 22:09 <@luxidream> killed by a lichen 22:09 there was the 'killed by a hallucinogen-distorted chameleon imitating a jabberwock' 22:09 On purpose, or... 22:09 ? 22:10 <@scj643> Any way 22:11 <+aosdict> Well, can add "unicorns of different alignments grudge each other" too <--- thats already in evilhack 22:12 <@scj643> Someone should add a train to nethack 22:12 <@scj643> That can just mow you down 22:13 <@luxidream> I think killed by a lichen is probably the most high effort death 22:13 <@luxidream> not sure if it's the weirdest one though 22:13 Is it possible? 22:13 <@rikersan> scj: they call those drawbridegs 22:14 <@luxidream> if your HP is negative when a lichen touches you, you die 22:14 <@scj643> Lolb 22:14 <@luxidream> you need to overflow HP 22:14 <@scj643> What is HP an int? 22:15 mm 22:15 <@rikersan> probably int ya, don't think it's long 22:16 <@scj643> How hard would it be to change it to a long 22:24 Shower thought: I'm a level 10 archeologist and my rank title is Exhumer. Shouldn't I be exempt from alignment penalties for grave-robbing? 22:24 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 22:26 <@luxidream> That's like saying a level 22 wizard should automatically learn undead turning 22:27 <@rikersan> well should they? :) 22:27 <@rikersan> ya(bad)ni: wizards get spbks as they level up 22:28 <@rikersan> something like magic missile at xp14 if they dont know the spell already 22:28 <@rikersan> and possibly finger of death at smth hella high like 20 (not sure what vanilla xp breaks down to) 22:28 <@rikersan> healing could be 7 or smth like that, other useful spells maybe as well 22:29 <@luxidream> they already get finger by crowning 22:29 for the record, "ya(bad)ni" won't get captured, so use it to describe bad ideas :) 22:31 YASI 22:31 YAFAI <--- yet another fuckin awesome idea 22:32 aka evilhack 22:32 :P 22:34 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Ana Inc Mal Cha) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:8454 22:35 -!- bhaak has joined #hardfought 22:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v bhaak] by ChanServ 22:35 <@luxidream> YAFAI: laser mech dragons with laser breath 22:37 -!- misha is now known as werekitten 22:37 -!- Announcy has joined #hardfought 22:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Announcy] by ChanServ 22:40 <@luxidream> YAFAI: monk 22:40 <@luxidream> https://i.imgur.com/karLW5E.gif 22:44 -!- werekitten is now known as misha 22:49 omg how do you non wizards even do this Gehennom crap 22:49 I can't with this without Magic Mapping 22:49 Magic mapping. 22:49 right, all gone 22:49 lol 22:49 Wish for a marker and write more. 22:50 oh sure, I'll just wish 22:50 ;) 22:50 There are strategies you can use to conserve the scrolls too. 22:50 I'm probably going to have to walk the whole thing this run 22:50 yeah that should have been done 22:50 -!- ichbinmiah has quit [] 22:50 it's a good point 22:50 mm 22:54 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 22:54 EvilHack updated (all servers) 22:55 @luxidream - gif approved 22:55 k2: my fear is i'm going to suck at evilhack after ttnnt (more so than i already do ha!) 22:56 you'll get back into it 22:57 !who 22:57 K2: [hdf-us] truculent [tnnt] tsingi [tnnt] eitwinston [tnnt] Cevn [tnnt] iyarkonan [tnnt] Grouchy [tnnt] bouquet [tnnt] AntiVirus [tnnt] aosdict [tnnt] thegame [tnnt] Cromo [tnnt] jackofclubs [tnnt] JohnKeel [tnnt] towardsdawn [tnnt] allanb [tnnt] Bliss56 [tnnt] larry [tnnt] jeremiahL | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 22:57 haha rebatela, you've been training with a heavy backpack on 22:57 this is easy now 22:57 lol 22:57 it's definitely made me a better player 22:57 yeah, for srue 22:58 but man, I've never ascended Valk before 22:58 although i'm a little too paranoid of Z 22:58 Gehennom is aweful 22:58 ahaha yeah Z is so pathetic in vanilla 22:58 but I keep getting stressed when I see them too 22:59 it makes me miss appreciate EH's Gehennom 22:59 NetHack 363-hdf updated (all servers) 22:59 ^ latest devteam bits 22:59 I'm having a bit of an odd game though. Almost no magic mapping scrolls 22:59 no genocide scrolls 23:00 * aosdict read that as 'latest devteam hits' 23:00 so I still have Liches to fight 23:00 3.7.0 - the hottest new studio album by your favorites - the DevTeam! 23:00 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 1272 points, 2226 turns, killed by a wand 23:00 are you going monk for tnnt? 23:01 [US] [D]: Cevn (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 6373 points, 7787 turns, killed by a water moccasin (and one other game not reported) 23:03 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 54 points, 264 turns, killed by a fox 23:05 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Val Ang Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:10686 23:06 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Val Ang Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:10691 23:12 [US] [D]: Cromo (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 380 points, 788 turns, killed by hallucinogen-distorted Ms. Tuktoyaktuk; the shopkeeper 23:21 [US] [D]: rebatela (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 2714 points, 2634 turns, killed by a giant beetle (and 5 other games not reported) 23:23 [US] [D]: larry (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 768 points, 3071 turns, killed by a giant bat 23:27 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 23:28 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:32 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:32 [US] [D]: EndlessMike (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 122 points, 1030 turns, killed by a magic missile (and one other game not reported) 23:32 [US] [D]: oh6 (Kni-Hum-Fem-Law), 6542 points, 5477 turns, killed by a bolt of cold 23:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:89805 23:38 [US] [Q]: rebatela (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1881 points, 2439 turns, quit (and 20 other games not reported) 23:39 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Val Ang Fem Law) killed the Failure Eidolon, on T:12232 23:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:89828 23:40 [US] [A]: Luxidream (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Law), 630620 points, 40951 turns, ascended (and one other game not reported) 23:40 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/tnnt/dumplog/1573038033.tnnt.html 23:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] RyanHill (Val Hum Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:90004 23:50 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:55 [US] [D]: ShivanHunter (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 13876 points, 8464 turns, killed by a giant beetle (and 10 other games not reported)