00:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3981
00:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:67082
00:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:4301
00:06 <shadowcat> hey! i've got two luckstones!
00:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed k2's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:1360
00:10 <rebatela> ty for the bones k2. awfully thoughtful to put all your stuff in a chest :) 
00:10 <K2> i know nothing
00:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:4684
00:11 <shadowcat> alright, kids. time for bed. i've got work in the morning.
00:11 <rebatela> night
00:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha), 2495979 points, T:67150, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/o/oh6/nethack/dumplog/1572023348.nh.html
00:12 -!- shadowcat has quit [Quit: shadowcat]
00:12 <oh6> Whooper's leash goes slack
00:12 <oh6> rats
00:13 -!- eady has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:14 <rebatela> congrats oh6
00:14 <oh6> w
00:14 <oh6> thanks rebatela!
00:15 <oh6> Whooper was my level 48 purple worm
00:15 -!- eady has joined #hardfought
00:16 <K2> woo grats oh6!
00:16 <K2> whopper hah
00:17 <Muad> the Purple Rodney Eaters so rarely make it to the end :(
00:20 <K2> The shambling horror's tentacles suck you!
00:20 <K2> You feel your magical energy drain away.
00:20 <K2> thats a weird combo
00:21 <Porkmantwo> seriously now...why can't I get crowned..
00:21 <Porkmantwo> luck is maxed
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00:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha) had Cleaver bestowed upon her by Set, on T:10250
00:29 <Pinkbeast> Crowning never turns up when you want any
00:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Bar Inc Mal Cha), 90249 points, T:10054, killed by a yuki-onna
00:39 <oh6> thanks K2!
00:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) was given their Quest, on T:38689
00:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:2617
00:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha) had Frost Brand bestowed upon her by Set, on T:10531
00:48 -!- misha is now known as werekitten
00:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 609 points, T:1319, killed by a hill orc
00:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Rog Elf Fem Cha), 3465 points, T:2735, killed by a gnome lord
01:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) destroyed the Legion, on T:39174
01:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:9097
01:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) became the Glory of Arioch, on T:39683
01:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Mother Lilith, on T:39737
01:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Fem Cha) killed Verier, on T:39780
01:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:13431
01:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fireproof greased +3 helping hand", on T:39894
01:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Grimtooth bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:14711
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01:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed magic marker", on T:39919
01:31 <Porkmantwo> Pinkbeast, in DNH you must have finished quest before crowning, thats why
01:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) was chosen to take lives for the Glory of Anhur, on T:15956
01:33 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
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01:49 <JonathanHanes> !who
01:49 <Beholder> JonathanHanes: [hdf-us] Karnac [nh363] Luxidream [nh363] luxor [slshm] richards [un] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players
01:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:22547
02:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (disenchanter), on T:24131
02:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) made her first wish - "uncursed magic marker", on T:25607
02:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fireproof bag of holding", on T:25614
02:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided electric eel, on T:26429
02:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the Dark One, on T:27498
02:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:27499
02:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:27626
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02:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided class L, on T:28706
02:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided class h, on T:28707
02:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:28821
02:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:29417
02:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 100 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:29781
02:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:30062
02:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a succubus, on T:30406
02:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:30611
02:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:30612
02:59 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
03:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:31566
03:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:31569
03:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:31592
03:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:31720
03:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:31723
03:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "2 cursed gain level", on T:32671
03:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "2 cursed gain level", on T:32747
03:10 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
03:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:33716
03:16 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as ProzacElf
03:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:34182
03:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:34344
03:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Law), 551162 points, T:34360, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nethack/dumplog/1572319327.nh.html
03:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) used a helm to turn lawful, on T:34360
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03:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 66405 points, T:18781, petrified by a cockatrice
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03:52 -!- LarienTelrunya33 is now known as LarienTelrunya
03:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed AntiVirus' ghost, the former Conjurer, on T:1940
03:59 * NCommander hates the coul
03:59 <NCommander> *cold
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04:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed bubbles' ghost, the former Adept, on T:2993
04:09 <K2> hey rebatela
04:11 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder
04:11 -!- cherryh.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ ¤ public irc logs available on website ¤ ssh nethack@hardfought.org, nethack@eu.hardfought.org or nethack@au.hardfought.org ¤ TNNT 2019! Public BETA is now open, please report any bugs or issues
04:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ
04:12 <K2> thanks rebatela
04:12 <K2> been needing to do that for over a week
04:14 <K2> EvilHack updated (all servers)
04:18 <NHrsa> good job K2! =)
04:19 <K2> \o/
04:19 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought
04:19 <K2> sleepy time
04:22 <NHrsa> gn
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06:42 <bhaak> aosdict: how are you ensuring that the behavior doesn't change? do you have any unit tests we don't know about? ;-)
06:46 <Mandevil> bhaak: You've been banned from #hardfought...
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06:57 <bhaak> nazi mods!
06:59 <stennowork> did i miss somethign funny
06:59 <bhaak> there's nothing funny about nazis :-}
07:01 <Mandevil> bhaak called for such hippie communist thing such as unit tests.
07:01 <Andrio> Do you want your possessions identified?
07:11 <stennowork> haha
07:19 <stennowork> my unit testing suite is called 'eslint-airbnb' :3
07:35 * Andrio still wonders why Alt+Shift+A doesn't work in curses.
07:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) killed Ixoth, on T:18591
07:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) was given their Quest, on T:18638
07:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had Fire Brand bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:33890
07:54 <K2> errmahgerd, morning
07:55 <K2> or 'mahrnin'
07:59 <paxed> already?
07:59 <K2> i know right?
08:00 <paxed> 4.5 hours of sleep?
08:00 <paxed> jeez
08:00 <K2> already been up for an hour
08:00 <stennowork> thats not much
08:00 <K2> no more like 2.5
08:00 <paxed> ohhkay...
08:00 <K2> no, its not ok :)
08:02 <stennowork> go to bed earlier
08:05 <K2> no
08:05 <aosdict> bhaak: look do you want someone to fix a much-complained-about part of the code for you or not
08:06 <K2> we did a fair amount of work on getting tnnt ready, then i started working on evilhack stuff. then paxed started texting me every 10 min
08:06 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought
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08:06 <K2> and then i put all my wifes shoes in a pile and doused them in gasoline...
08:06 <bhaak> aosdict: yes but weren't you talking about the wishing parser? :-)
08:06 <K2> because you know i cant stand shoes
08:06 <paxed> and then you were chased out of the house and slept outdoor?
08:07 <K2> and then lit the match and *poof* no more shoes
08:07 <K2> oh hi LarienTelrunya
08:07 <LarienTelrunya> K2: what EVIL things are you talking about there???
08:07 <K2> lol
08:09 <LarienTelrunya> K2: you need to get more sleep! even I had 4 hours of sleep last night
08:09 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:09 <K2> i know i know
08:09 <K2> i have only myself to blame
08:10 <K2> but there really arent enough hours in the day
08:10 <stennowork> thats what you get for lovey-dovey texting with your long distance relationship
08:10 <LarienTelrunya> tell me about it :D  I'll just eat something real quick now and then sleep during the day
08:10 <K2> stennowork - if anyone asks, i'm 'top'
08:10 <stennowork> :D
08:11 <paxed> of course you are, dear
08:11 <K2> \o/
08:11 <K2> lol
08:11 <stennowork> ^_^
08:11 <K2> aww stenno, dont be sad
08:11 <stennowork> ..how did you notice? D:
08:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) killed Nimune, on T:18931
08:17 <K2> i can sense these things
08:20 -!- remirol is now known as lorimer
08:20 <K2> ugh c'mon tuesday morning
08:20 <K2> dont make me have to take a 2nd 5 hr energy drink
08:20 <K2> those things are nasty
08:20 <stennowork> what is a 5 hr energy drink?
08:21 <K2> they are magical
08:21 <stennowork> oh an 'energy shot'
08:21 <stennowork> lets se whats in there
08:21 <stennowork> taurine and caffeine, ok
08:21 <stennowork> so like red bull
08:22 <K2> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1871/6117/products/720018_ES_Grape_480x480.jpg?v=1547246348
08:22 <K2> ^ that's my jam
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08:23 <stennowork> neat
08:23 <LarienTelrunya> red bull gives you wiiiiiiiiiiiiiings ♥
08:23 <stennowork> for me personally, just having a strong black coffee or two is fine enough
08:24 * K2 dry heaves
08:24 <K2> i *hate* coffee
08:24 <stennowork> aw
08:24 <K2> its bean juice
08:25 <stennowork> its not everyones thing
08:25 <K2> its the devil
08:25 <stennowork> no, its nectar and ambrosia
08:27 <K2> its the devils work
08:27 <K2> nasty nasty
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08:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) wished for "blessed +2 black dragon scale mail", on T:19678
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09:00 <bubbles_nhww> Do you guys get "Monster" energy drinks?
09:00 <bubbles_nhww> They do a pretty good sugar/calorie free one now which is waaayyy less bad tasting than the normal one
09:01 <K2> the 'monster' drinks here are awful. so bad for you
09:01 <stennowork> i don't really drink energy drinks 
09:01 <K2> i dont touch them
09:01 <{Demo}> bang energy
09:01 <bubbles_nhww> I love substances
09:01 <bubbles_nhww> All of them
09:01 <{Demo}> wait don't tell k2 about thT
09:01 <stennowork> closest to energy drink i drink is club mate
09:01 <Pinkbeast> We do but I'm pretty sure they're ghastly
09:01 <K2> i dont drink soft drinks in general
09:01 <bubbles_nhww> I'm trying 7 days alcohol free though
09:01 <{Demo}> k2 u seem lime a 5 hr energy type
09:02 <K2> yes, i am lime
09:02 <stennowork> lime + hotpink best color scheme
09:02 <Pinkbeast> I'm off to the Whitby Goth Weekend tomorrow so I suspect my next 7 days will not be alcohol free
09:03 <K2> \o/
09:03 <stennowork> oh right you are that kind of person
09:03 <stennowork> i think we talked about the gotik-wave festival in leipzig at some point
09:04 <bubbles_nhww> Whitby?
09:04 <Pinkbeast> I am indeed that kind of person (and go to WGT)
09:04 <bubbles_nhww> You are uk?
09:04 <Pinkbeast> bubbles_nhww: I spell it "armour", indeed
09:04 * stennowork is more like cyberpunk > steampunk
09:04 <stennowork> so the gothic stuff isn't really form e
09:04 <Pinkbeast> Lotta steampunks at WGT, but yeah
09:05 <bubbles_nhww> Good stuff
09:05 <bubbles_nhww> Whitby is up in North Yorkshire right?
09:05 <bubbles_nhww> Erf relog
09:05 <Pinkbeast> It is, on the coast between Middlesborough and Scarborough. Used to have a direct line from York. (Curse you, Dr Beeching.)
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09:07 <bubbles_nhww> I used to live in Stokesley/Great Ayton
09:07 <bubbles_nhww> Nice area
09:07 <bubbles_nhww> Took the bus to guisborough and did a lot of hiking
09:08 -!- attie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
09:08 <Pinkbeast> I live in East Anglia; the horizon is a funny shape up on the Moors. :-)
09:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a wraith corpse, on T:9071
09:13 <stennowork> krakatoa, east of lemmington
09:13 <stennowork> leamington*
09:13 <bubbles_nhww> English placename spellings :x
09:14 <bubbles_nhww> Built purely to annoy americans I assume
09:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 848 points, T:2686, killed by a death ray
09:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:40987
09:21 <stennowork> yes, the english people took the american language and molded them into their own strange dialect
09:21 <stennowork> that is exactly what happened
09:23 <raisse> Miezekatze eats a chameleon corpse. Miezekatze turns into a spotted jelly!
09:23 <BEHiker91W> Those Angles needed their own local colour in our English.
09:23 <raisse> now if it was a poly trap I could just whistle it back on it
09:23 <stennowork> well fuzzywish already helps with 'gray' vs. 'grey'
09:23 <stennowork> and stuff like that
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09:24 <bubbles_nhww> Don't mention the wish parser
09:24 <bubbles_nhww> You'll summon the FIQmonster!!
09:24 * NHrsa escapes upstairs.
09:26 <bubbles_nhww> I'm surprised amy hasn't changed the wish parser to assume any incorrect wish is for shoes
09:28 <{Demo}> ha
09:30 <bubbles_nhww> Ditto {demo} but for something nastier
09:30 <bubbles_nhww> :hmm:
09:30 <stennowork> :thinking:
09:30 <stennowork> does that display for you
09:31 <stennowork> :LULW:
09:31 <stennowork> can i send you twitch emotes like that
09:31 <stennowork> :EZ: :clap:
09:31 <bubbles_nhww> Nah, sadly
09:31 <stennowork> aw
09:31 <bubbles_nhww> I am just used to typing it because we use slack at work
09:32 <aosdict> :GWmemetownOMEGALUL:
09:32 <aosdict> how about that
09:32 <stennowork> :OMEGALUL:
09:32 <stennowork> :WutFace: :4Head:
09:33 <aosdict> something umby uses a lot
09:33 <stennowork> :CmonBruh: :AYAYA:
09:33 <aosdict> I would expect a '4Head' emote to be four miniature heads
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09:35 <AntiGulp> !tell bouquet The void isn’t worth exploring, unless you’re going for a strat where you tame the void dragon, in which case the void is awesome.
09:35 <Beholder> I'm on it, AntiGulp.
09:35 <stennowork> aosdict, https://www.twitchmetrics.net/e/354-4Head
09:36 <aosdict> stennowork: so... kind of? I see four heads of varying size :D
09:36 <stennowork> yes but thats a coincidence
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09:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:21031
09:38 <bubbles_nhww> malor you are a machine :-
09:40 <bubbles_nhww> malor is clockwork irl? 
09:41 <rld> <@malor> hold on my wife is winding me right now.
09:41 <bubbles_nhww> Hot
09:41 <bubbles_nhww> Also definitely takeable out of context \o/
09:41 <stennowork> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
09:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Tie-Dye Shirt of Shambhala", on T:21215
09:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) wished for "blessed amulet of life saving", on T:21215
09:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:11948
09:52 <bubbles_nhww> Does the map always have a 1-tile border between it and the status bar(s) / message window?
09:53 <Andrio> No.
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09:54 <bubbles_nhww> So it extends to exactly the statusbar/message window then?
09:54 <Andrio> At least not in vanilla. In the TTY interface you can move adjacent to the status line and poke it with a stethoscope.
09:54 <Andrio> Not all maps let you go that far though,
09:54 <bubbles_nhww> (testing things)
09:54 <bubbles_nhww> But the max.map does
09:54 <bubbles_nhww> Ok cool beans not a problem
09:54 <bubbles_nhww> I take it as a player no one really cares
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10:07 <raisse> argh I hate leocrottas
10:07 <raisse> one got me in soko
10:07 <raisse> couldn't get away and my wand of sleep was empty
10:10 <hackedhead> there are some fun TDTTOE bits with the map edges
10:11 <hackedhead> bubbles_nhww: ^
10:11 <bubbles_nhww> TDTTOE?
10:11 <stennowork> the devteam thinks of everything
10:11 <hackedhead> The Dev Team Thinks Of Everything
10:11 <hackedhead> stennowork: jinx =P
10:11 <stennowork> zing
10:11 <stennowork> that has its own tvtropes entry
10:12 <stennowork> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DevelopersForesight?from=Main.TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything
10:12 <alex___> dont get that started now
10:15 <bubbles_nhww> Ah yeah 
10:15 <FIQ> bubbles_nhww: you're not supposed to be able to enable debug mode on server
10:15 <bubbles_nhww> :-(
10:15 <bubbles_nhww> I know
10:18 -!- attie has joined #hardfought
10:18 <FIQ> public server changes the way the game sets some file permissions, disables wizard mode and disables replay mode for finished games
10:18 <FIQ> you can still engage replaymode in ongoing games, it has some legitimate uses
10:19 <FIQ> fiqhack's is kinda broken though
10:20 <bubbles_nhww> It;s ok, I'm just stealing your layouts \o/
10:20 <FIQ> heh
10:22 <bubbles_nhww> Still not 100% on the prompt window though - it sometimes clips the map
10:22 <bubbles_nhww> But I guess it doesn't really matter too much
10:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:44346
10:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 28 points, T:25, killed by a jackal
10:34 <BEHiker91W> Some of the variants have Curses modes where you have a permanent inventory window and recent message scrollback. It's very cool looking. Wish we had a working Curses mode in Vanilla.
10:37 -!- attie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
10:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:44566
10:38 <Andrio> we do...?
10:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 1890 points, T:3190, killed by a plains centaur
10:39 <bubbles_nhww> BEHiker I am defo defo on board with the message scrollback
10:40 <bubbles_nhww> Perma inventory I will attempt to support
10:40 <bubbles_nhww> But it's more difficult because personally I don't use it, so it's harder for me to understand how to make it "feel" good
10:40 <{Demo}> yeah
10:40 <{Demo}> fuck curses and perminvent
10:40 <stennowork> technically the vt_tiledata allows to display perma inv and infinite scrollback
10:41 <stennowork> hmm not perma inv though 
10:41 <stennowork> never mind, disregard
10:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 6 darts on an altar, on T:3147
10:46 <FIQ> BEHiker91W: we *do* have working curses in vanilla now
10:46 <FIQ> including perm_invent
10:46 <FIQ> at least in upcoming 3.6.3
10:47 <FIQ> not sure if 3.6.2's curses interface had a working perm_invent (perm_invent had severe bugs for a time -- curses and other windowports were all affected)
10:48 <FIQ> bubbles_nhww: if you think NH4's getlin windows are bad for covering the map
10:48 <FIQ> you should see the curses one
10:48 <FIQ> I actually rewrote it in an unfinished libuncursed port
10:49 <FIQ> maybe I should port that to the current regular curses windowport
10:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 3550 points, T:3929, quit
10:57 <FIQ> YASI: you can wish for vikeys, it disables number_pad
10:57 <rld> <@Tone> 362 had perm_invent but it had a few kinks to work out; there were a few situations where it wouldn't update right away
10:59 <rld> <@Tone> My curses pet peeve right now is that you don't know the result of your identification scroll/spell if you still have items to identify
10:59 <rld> <@Tone> The inventory window covers the message log
10:59 <BEHiker91W> I've been trying out the various curses modes in Vanilla in the 3.6 series (not 3.6.3 yet) and none of them work in a usable way.
10:59 <rld> <@Tone> It also behaves poorly with the count command, which brings the message window to the front
10:59 <{Demo}> UI like that would pussify me and then I couldn't play without it
10:59 <rld> <@Tone> (covering your inventory)
11:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 246 points, T:922, killed by a bugbear
11:00 <rld> <@Tone> What has made them unusable?
11:00 <rld> <@Tone> oh, also single line message windows will hide two-line messages
11:01 <rld> <@Tone> I should probably report this stuff, not sure if the dev team is even aware
11:01 <BEHiker91W> I couldn't get permainventory to be readable at all. Map was incomaptible with any line drawing modes.
11:01 <rld> <@Tone> I blew up my boh a while back because the message window hid my engrave test message
11:01 <BEHiker91W> And I'm using a very compliant terminal in iTerm2
11:03 <rld> <@Tone> Ah. It seems to work fine in putty for me. Although I still kinda prefer tty
11:03 <FIQ> BEHiker91W: that sounds very strange
11:03 <FIQ> can you screenshot with your problem?
11:03 <bubbles_nhww> Also FIQ is there a way to override the terminal "black" color to make it actually black, not blue-gray?
11:03 <bubbles_nhww> For bg colors, for example
11:04 <FIQ> bubbles_nhww: what do you mean? is there something wrong with how a NH4 variant behaves in its display?
11:04 <bubbles_nhww> I am not sure why, if I run nh3 variants the background is black, but if I use nh4 (or bubblehack, which uses libuncursed) I get a blue-ish background
11:05 <FIQ> that is because the game overrides the default terminal background
11:05 <bubbles_nhww> The TERM background is blue-ish
11:05 <FIQ> for those weird people who actually think black on white is a good terminal setuip
11:05 <bubbles_nhww> ah ok, so it sets COLOR_BLACK
11:05 <FIQ> (it does not work well with NetHack)
11:05 <bubbles_nhww> Which then the term has set to blueish
11:05 <FIQ> yeah
11:05 <FIQ> because the terminal is dumb :P
11:05 <bubbles_nhww> Can I specify an RGB color for colors?
11:05 <FIQ> there's various palettes
11:05 <FIQ> you can choose from
11:05 <FIQ> in the options
11:06 <FIQ> fiqhack doesn't actually change the palette and respect user set ones by default
11:06 <bubbles_nhww> I guess could be an options
11:06 <bubbles_nhww> Probably is in fh?
11:06 <FIQ> nethack4 does not
11:06 <FIQ> and will override it by default
11:06 <FIQ> bubbles_nhww: yes, in all nh4 derivatives
11:06 <bubbles_nhww> Ah cool, I'll look at how that works then! Cheers!!
11:06 <FIQ> options -> palette
11:06 <FIQ> almost at the bottom
11:07 <FIQ> jonadab: do you actually like the subcategories for options?
11:07 <FIQ> it always gives me a hard time finding anything
11:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed the invisible zor's ghost, the former Lookout, on T:6130
11:07 <FIQ> I hate them
11:08 <bubbles_nhww> I hate them too
11:08 <bubbles_nhww> Except for msg_window
11:08 <FIQ> if someone tells me "set option x to y"
11:08 <FIQ> in every variant except for 4k and fh, I can just scroll on the alphabetical list
11:08 <FIQ> but noo, those have to be different
11:09 <FIQ> with their option subcategories
11:09 <FIQ> making it impossible to find anything
11:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 9788 points, T:3866, killed by a giant spider
11:09 <bubbles_nhww> Like symset
11:09 <bubbles_nhww> grr
11:09 <FIQ> bubbles_nhww: oh that's a different problem, and a far smaller one IMO
11:09 <FIQ> nh4 renames some options
11:10 <FIQ> when it made sense to do so
11:10 <bhaak> FIQ: are you criticising your own variant here?
11:10 <FIQ> bhaak: yes
11:10 <FIQ> but I want vindication for my willingness to remove it
11:10 <FIQ> because I assume it was added for a reason
11:10 <FIQ> (it wasn't me, I got it from a mainline merge some years ago)
11:10 <bhaak> where did it come from? if nh4 doesn't have it?
11:11 <FIQ> it comes from umm
11:11 <FIQ> not sure what nh4 calls it
11:11 <FIQ> but the thing that added message colors
11:11 <FIQ> and force-tab etc
11:11 <FIQ> anyway, that on its own is a good change
11:11 <FIQ> I liked it
11:12 <FIQ> I did not like that it came bundled with stuff that messed up the options menus
11:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4022
11:14 <bubbles_nhww> libuncursed can't do more than 8/8 colors in tty?
11:14 <bubbles_nhww> can't/won't
11:15 <bhaak> IIRC it can't, but it would be possible to extend it to 256 colors.
11:17 <bubbles_nhww> Is it safe to assume 256 colors nowadays?
11:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1340 points, T:1654, killed by a rothe
11:20 <bhaak> I'd say, almost always.
11:20 <bhaak> it's nicer though to check for the proper settings
11:20 -!- sluggo has joined #hardfought
11:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed fixed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:6582
11:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 432 points, T:922, poisoned by an orcish dagger
11:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:38933
11:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:8584
11:28 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
11:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:45054
11:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a master mind flayer, on T:10567
11:32 <bubbles_nhww> bhaak how would one check (assume I'm using uncursed)?
11:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:11689
11:36 <FIQ> bubbles_nhww: 16 fg, not 8
11:36 <bhaak> bubbles_nhww: the usual way is using TERM and terminfo, to find out what the terminal is supposed to support. but libuncursed has this polyglot approach where it just tries to emit stuff that all terminals understand, possibly with detection hacks.
11:36 <FIQ> and no it is not
11:36 <FIQ> blame putty
11:36 <FIQ> iirc
11:36 <FIQ> maybe it is?
11:36 <bhaak> putty has 256 colors
11:37 <FIQ> oh right
11:37 <FIQ> it has 256 but not 24-color
11:37 <FIQ> er
11:37 <FIQ> 24bit colors that is
11:37 <bhaak> not yet but soon AFAIK
11:37 <FIQ> I used to have a jolla
11:37 <FIQ> while they did ship with a terminal, which was kinda nice
11:38 <FIQ> they managed to somehow have the worst terminal compatibility I've seen in a unix terminal ever
11:38 <FIQ> it didn't have 256color, only 16color support, but that wasn't the worst part
11:38 <FIQ> they somehow managed to mess up monospace
11:38 <FIQ> and fail to display libuncursed correctly
11:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) killed the high shaman of Moloch, on T:23462
11:39 <FIQ> (both due to monospace failures and it simply not being able to deal with either one of libuncursed's display modes)
11:39 <FIQ> to this day it's the only terminal I've seen fail to render libuncursed's >0x7f characters
11:40 <FIQ> not even this one bizarre Windows terminal emulator I found, which did some really weird shit, failed at this
11:40 <FIQ> and it failed with most other things (probably improper terminfo configurations)
11:40 <bhaak> messing up monospace? how ... how can you even do that?
11:41 <FIQ> not sure why
11:41 <FIQ> but iirc the space character was 1px too narrow
11:41 <FIQ> or something like that
11:41 <bhaak> crazy
11:42 -!- sluggo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:46536
11:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided class ;, on T:46540
11:45 <FIQ> !who
11:45 <Beholder> FIQ: [hdf-us] Luxidream [nh363] Hekik [nh363] klintos [nh363] IceBox [nh363] Wolfechu [nh363] SkydiveMike [nh363] oh6 [nh363] mosen [tnnt] hothraxxa [tnnt] BEHiker91W [tnnt] luxor [slshm] malor5 [dnh] rebatela [evil] | [hdf-eu] spontiff [nh363] rsa [nh363] FIQ [fh] | [hdf-au] No current players
11:46 <FIQ> plenty
11:47 <FIQ> @luxidream DECgraphics should work in curses now btw in case you prefer that over pseudo-ibmgraphics aka cursesgraphics
11:47 <FIQ> I personally prefer it, but to each their own
11:47 <rld> <@luxidream> 👍
11:48 <bhaak> graphics settings should be independent of ports
11:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:9430
11:48 <bhaak> you should be able to configure your symbols and the ports then display those that they can show
11:49 <rld> <@luxidream> thanks for the tip
11:49 <bhaak> (that's probably slightly complicated by the rogue set, but I would kick the rogue level)
11:49 <FIQ> bhaak: what do you mean?
11:51 <FIQ> the somewhat recent symset work I and patr did, fixed basically that
11:51 <bhaak> FIQ: the config states that ironbars are this symbol, and the ports then have to make it happen or fall back to ASCII
11:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 t-shirt named crop top", on T:46881
11:51 <FIQ> making curses properly support the engine symsets appropriately
11:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:9907
11:51 <FIQ> this was done not by translating symbols to graphics in the windowport
11:52 <FIQ> but interpreting DEC-mode characters in the symbols file and translating it into the appropriate curses symbol "macro"
11:52 <FIQ> that was the entire purpose of the recent changes
11:52 <FIQ> previously, "cursesgraphics" was a special internal windowport symset
11:52 <FIQ> that worked by translating the game's symbols to certain graphics
11:53 <FIQ> or fall back to ascii for most else
11:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 30849 points, T:10230, killed by a chameleon imitating a giant centipede
11:54 <bhaak> FIQ: that's not exactly what I mean. now you still assume a specific code set with symbols. IBMgraphics will only display correctly with the correct charset.
11:54 <bhaak> it's way better than 3.4.x for sure
11:54 <FIQ> ahh
11:55 <FIQ> right, there is no special handling for ibmgraphics
11:55 <FIQ> because curses simply doesn't know if the terminal uses the correct codepage
11:55 <FIQ> this is actually one thing libuncursed set out to solve
11:55 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought
11:56 <FIQ> for decgraphics, it has stuff like
11:56 <FIQ>         decchars[0x60 - 0x5f] = ACS_DIAMOND; /* [1] solid diamond */
11:56 <FIQ> but nothing like that exists for IBMgraphics
11:56 -!- attie has joined #hardfought
12:03 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought
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12:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping an elven leather helm on an altar, on T:3957
12:11 <FIQ> why is https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:FIQ pointing to a red link for an article that exists?
12:12 <stennowork> it just has redlink=1 lol
12:13 <FIQ> what does that mean?
12:13 <stennowork> that the link will be displayed in red :P
12:13 <FIQ> but why?
12:13 <FIQ> like
12:13 <stennowork> how would i know :v
12:13 <FIQ> how do I get rid of it
12:16 -!- nhmall has joined #hardfought
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12:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1434 points, T:2112, killed by a dwarf
12:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Pri Elf Fem Cha) had Fire Brand bestowed upon her by Susanowo, on T:16283
12:17 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought
12:17 <nhmall> hi FIQ: there was very recent internal symbol-related changes committed. SYMBOLS (and new ROGUESYMBOLS, bhaak's distaste aside).
12:18 <stennowork> wait is that like 3.4.3-NAO symbols
12:18 <stennowork> that would be most epic
12:18 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:18 <FIQ> no
12:18 <stennowork> aw
12:18 <FIQ> stennowork: what did NAO have?
12:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Pri Elf Fem Cha) was chosen to take lives for the Glory of Susanowo, on T:17099
12:18 <stennowork> the 3.6.0 kind of symbols then
12:18 <FIQ> didn't nao merely had a crappier version of SYMBOLS configuration
12:18 <stennowork> no, a better one :P
12:18 <FIQ> actually I think it might be from vanilla
12:19 <FIQ> the one thing nao did have
12:19 <FIQ> that I'm sorely missing
12:19 <FIQ> is color customization
12:19 <bubbles_nhww> (sorry for the stupid questions, uncursed isn't the easiest thing to get right) - should all I need to do is call "uncursed_set_palette16"
12:19 <stennowork> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Options#MONSTERSYMBOL
12:19 <bubbles_nhww> To change the colours?
12:19 <stennowork> FIQ, see https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Options#MONSTERSYMBOL
12:19 <FIQ> stennowork: oh, that
12:19 <stennowork> FIQ, i think vanillas SYMBOLS only work for monster classes
12:20 <stennowork> and here we additionally also have MONSTERCOLOR and DUNGEONCOLOR
12:20 <stennowork> plus i think that vanilla SYMBOLS don't support utf8
12:20 <FIQ> bubbles_nhww: I never worked with palette functions in uncursed, but shouldn't the documentation have info on them?
12:20 <jonadab> FIQ: I like that there _are_ subcategories for options; not 100% committed to the exact details of the current ones.
12:20 <FIQ> alternatively, look at the magic nh4 does
12:21 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 963 points, T:896, killed by something while blind
12:21 <bubbles_nhww> The docs don't have anything on them!
12:21 <bubbles_nhww> Looking at fiqhack currently
12:22 <FIQ> palette is the option
12:22 <FIQ> that should help
12:23 <bubbles_nhww> Aye, that calls through to setup_palette
12:23 <bubbles_nhww> Which I'm doing too but doesn't seem to have any effect, which means there is some other global call before or after
12:23 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
12:25 <FIQ> jonadab: IME it makes it impossible to find things
12:25 <FIQ> they annoy me basically every time I want to change an option
12:25 <FIQ> because I can't simply just browse on alphabetical order
12:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 389 points, T:1124, killed by a fox
12:29 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought
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12:31 -!- workimer has joined #hardfought
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12:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed amulet of reflection", on T:15247
12:32 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:32 <jonadab> FIQ: That's only relevant if you have memorized the names of the options so know where they would be alphabetically.
12:33 <jonadab> I guarantee most users haven't.
12:34 -!- remirol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:35 <K2> !who
12:35 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] samiam [nh363] oh6 [nh363] klintos [nh363] dgoddard [nh363] Wolfechu [nh363] SkydiveMike [nh363] Cevn [tnnt] mosen [tnnt] BEHiker91W [tnnt] jonathanhanes [tnnt] luxor [slshm] malor5 [dnh] Hratt [evil] | [hdf-eu] spontiff [nh363] | [hdf-au] No current players
12:35 <stennowork> even more devteam members on reddit
12:35 <stennowork> gotta follow them all
12:36 <K2> should I eat these flamin hot cheetos? no. am I going to? yes
12:36 <bubbles_nhww> yes
12:36 <bubbles_nhww> and yes
12:36 <K2> heh
12:37 <bubbles_nhww> Ugh why can't I override the palette? :-(
12:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 830 points, T:1247, killed by a wand
12:40 <bubbles_nhww> And why is stuff appearing even without me doing refresh()
12:40 -!- Hekik has joined #hardfought
12:44 <FIQ> stennowork: actually nhmall does join here and #nethack-dev occasionally since a while back
12:44 <stennowork> yes i have seen that
12:44 <stennowork> not used to devteam members just floating around on IRC and reddit lol
12:46 <jonadab> K2: You should offset the nutritional downsides of the flaming hot cheetos by also eating some vegetables.  I suggest hot peppers, cabbage, and prunes.
12:46 <stennowork> i have to be more civil with my critique
12:46 <stennowork> but - almost all the points i critiqued the DT for now have changed
12:46 <stennowork> so i don't really have anything left to complain about
12:46 <K2> omg... it gets hotter the closer you get to the bottom of the bag
12:47 <jonadab> Working out which ones would've changed anyway, and which ones if any changed because you complained, is left as an exercise.
12:47 * nhmall ears are burning
12:47 <K2> jonadab i ate kale last night. i'm good until new years
12:47 <bubbles_nhww> COMPLAIN MORE
12:47 <bubbles_nhww> Weird, why was that underlined?
12:47 <bubbles_nhww> Oh god uncursed is infecting me even here!!!
12:47 <K2> lol
12:47 <bubbles_nhww> K2 new years 2022 right?
12:48 <K2> heya nhmall
12:48 <K2> nooo 2020
12:48 <bubbles_nhww> \o/
12:48 <K2> i'm getting old, i need veggies at least once or twice a year
12:48 <jonadab> K2: Why New Years?  Do you normally eat a lot of vegetables then?
12:48 <K2> no, i just picked a time
12:48 <jonadab> Where I come from, New Years is a traditional  time to eat nothing but desserts.
12:48 <jonadab> Actually, from Christmas through New Years.
12:48 <K2> in my family new years day was sour kraut
12:49 <K2> and sausage
12:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 2074 points, T:2702, killed by a baby gray dragon
12:49 * K2 doesnt like sourkraut
12:49 <aosdict> jonadab: quiches for me
12:49 <jonadab> ... In my family sauerkraut was a fanciful threat that never got actually carried out.
12:49 <aosdict> also pumpkin pie
12:49 <K2> yeah i knew i spelt that wrong
12:49 <K2> but we all know i cant spell so meh
12:49 <jonadab> I'm not confident my spelling is correct either.
12:49 <aosdict> traditional christmas morning breakfast is two slices of quiche and a slice of pumpkin pie
12:50 <K2> i really like quiche if its done right
12:50 * jonadab is not sure if he has ever had quiche.
12:50 <K2> you can really screw it up
12:50 <aosdict> It's not _easy_ to screw up, if you're following a good recipe.
12:50 <K2> oh here, hold my beer
12:50 <jonadab> Probably multiple times, at breakfast carry ins, without knowing what it was called, I'd guess.
12:51 <K2> jonadab its like an omlette in pie form
12:51 * jonadab knows people who can screw up any recipe, even something simple like tea.
12:52 -!- workimer is now known as lorimer
12:52 <jonadab> If I had to guess, I'd guess that quiche, being an egg-heavy recipe, is probably one of those things that has a HUGE difference in how good it is depending on who makes it.  Like bread pudding, rice pudding, etc.
12:52 <jonadab> But that is a guess.
12:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat (floating eye) for the first time, on T:3097
12:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Hekik (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:42135
12:53 <FIQ> stennowork: mysterious force is always a safe bet
12:53 <FIQ> to complain about
12:53 <FIQ> :P
12:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:6539
12:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:48088
12:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:48091
12:54 <stennowork> ah good point
12:55 <stennowork> but i dont care about nethack enough anymore
12:55 <K2> yes you do
12:55 <K2> reach deep down
12:55 <K2> its there
12:55 -!- stennowork has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:55 <K2> visualize it as a cute white 'f' that wants a tripe ration
12:56 <K2> bah
12:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law), 15324 points, T:6579, killed by a bolt of lightning
12:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:42203
12:56 <rld> <@luxidream> but it wants the amulet of yendor instead
12:56 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought
12:57 -!- klintos_ has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:57 <Umbire> Hi
12:57 <Beholder> Hello Umbire, Welcome to #hardfought
12:57 <rld> <@luxidream> on an unrelated note: LarienTelrunya are there tameable catgirls in slex
12:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3678
12:57 <Umbire> Only in here for like 30m tops
12:57 <Umbire> Update on the ring situation earlier, I have a ring that MIGHT potentially be TC
12:58 <Umbire> more importantly I found and read a scroll of ID
12:58 <Umbire> I mean spellbook of ID
12:58 <Umbire> so once I train up the skill to my liking I can check for sure
12:59 <Umbire> Still no sinks in the game, I've gotten as far as Medusa's dwelling
12:59 <bubbles_nhww> Does getch implicitly redraw the screen?
13:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 21 darts on an altar, on T:4010
13:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Hekik (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker named "thanks RNG for making me use a wish on this"", on T:42147
13:00 <Umbire> Fat RIP
13:00 <Umbire> No luck polypiling, huh?
13:00 <{Demo}> I don't think getch does that
13:01 <bubbles_nhww> It is defo causing a refresh()
13:01 <{Demo}> well wtf good luck
13:01 <bubbles_nhww> :-(
13:02 <{Demo}> just set a breakpoint on refresh?
13:02 <{Demo}> and get angry at the callstack every time it breaks
13:02 <bubbles_nhww> obv in lldb it doesn't refresh :'(
13:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law), 343 points, T:1281, killed by a djinni
13:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:48341
13:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) killed Lungorthin, on T:24942
13:04 <bubbles_nhww> https://qbin.io/cells-extent-1gvr
13:04 <bubbles_nhww> {Demo} this is all I'm doing
13:04 <bubbles_nhww> I don't get how the character is displayed without calling wrefresh/refresh/doupdate
13:05 <K2> heya Umbire
13:05 <rld> <@Umby> Hi
13:05 <Beholder> Hello @Umby, Welcome to #hardfought
13:05 <rld> <@Umby> Client died again, as usual
13:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:48502
13:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:48502
13:07 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
13:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:4732
13:10 <rld> <@Umby> Hmm, gonna see if Ludious is a thing in my game
13:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) killed Shelob, on T:25148
13:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law), 658 points, T:1857, killed by a gecko
13:13 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought
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13:15 <bubbles_nhww> Ah {Demo} getch does do a wrefresh
13:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Irestine (Val Hum Fem Law), 3259 points, T:4054, killed by a killer bee, while praying
13:15 <{Demo}> oh
13:16 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
13:16 -!- Irestine has joined #hardfought
13:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 11028 points, T:5811, killed by a vampire lord
13:20 -!- remirol is now known as lorimer
13:21 <jonathanhanes> !who
13:21 <Beholder> jonathanhanes: [hdf-us] Ziberian [nh363] IceBox [nh363] oh6 [nh363] klintos [nh363] Karnac [nh363] Hekik [nh363] shadowcat [nh363] SkydiveMike [nh363] Cevn [tnnt] mosen [tnnt] jonathanhanes [tnnt] malor5 [dnh] AntiVirus [evil] Hratt [evil] | [hdf-eu] attie [nh363] spontiff [nh363] rsa [nh363] Hill [tnnt] | [hdf-au] No current players
13:22 <Hekik> I wish it were possible to #adjust spell keys
13:22 <jonathanhanes> let me know if anyone runs into yeenoghu on dlvl5 :)
13:22 <jonathanhanes> you can hekik
13:22 <jonathanhanes> press "+"
13:22 <Hekik> :o
13:22 <Hekik> cheers, thanks!
13:23 <jonathanhanes> no problem 
13:23 <bubbles_nhww> Hmm, so full_redraw is not getting called
13:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:50533
13:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:50597
13:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) murdered Catnip, his faithful kitten, on T:678
13:27 <FIQ> jonadab: does wstty support tilesets that aren't a direct 1:1 tile-to-character size?
13:27 <FIQ> if so, maybe look into whether or not it'd be possible to make it work in nh4+friends
13:27 <FIQ> with the existing tilesets
13:28 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
13:28 <stenno> wstty matches the tiles onto the display characters
13:28 <stenno> maps*
13:28 <jonadab> FIQ: Oh, not sure.
13:28 <stenno> so for square tiles you should use a square font
13:28 <jonadab> I hadn't thought of that.
13:28 <stenno> but the tile size itself doesn't matter
13:29 <stenno> you can give dimensions when installing the tiles
13:29 <jonadab> Because yeah, the NH4 windowport doesn't care about the relative size of characters versus tiles.  It draws as many tiles as will fit in the map area.
13:29 <stenno> only important thing is that the mappings in the txt files are correct
13:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law), 1099 points, T:2086, killed by a killer bee, while frozen by a trap
13:30 <FIQ> stenno: yeah I figured that's what it did
13:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) consumed animal products (fortune cookie) for the first time, on T:9339
13:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:9530
13:32 <bubbles_nhww> Oh, maybe uncursed doesn't work with Terminal.app 
13:32 <bubbles_nhww> Heh
13:33 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought
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13:33 <bubbles_nhww> At least the palette works on iterm2 but not on terminal
13:33 <stenno> yeah fuck Terminal.app
13:33 <stenno> terrible thing
13:33 <stenno> iterm2 ftw
13:33 <{Demo}> I don't understand how people use macs
13:34 <{Demo}> I try to and I'm like fuck, ghostbsd is easier to use than this
13:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 262677 points, T:43332, killed by a winged gargoyle
13:34 <stenno> in 2006, osx tiger was the best OS
13:35 <bubbles_nhww> So do people who use uncursed just not care about Terminal users? (valid question, not being mean/insulting)
13:35 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:9774
13:38 <K2> iterm2 you say?
13:38 <stenno> itermlove
13:38 <stenno> yes
13:38 <K2> i tried installing putty on this macbook pro i inheritted
13:39 <K2> it wont open a screen
13:39 <K2> hah
13:39 <stenno> ...putty?
13:39 <stenno> wat
13:39 <K2> yeah
13:39 <stenno> for what
13:39 <K2> why not? its a mac
13:39 <K2> who cares
13:39 <stenno> :I
13:39 -!- Irestine has quit [Quit: Irestine]
13:39 <stenno> lol
13:39 <K2> i'll set it up as a honeypot or doorstop
13:39 <K2> or both
13:40 <stenno> lol
13:40 <K2> :)
13:42 <FIQ> K2: why doesn't xnh allow me to enable vt_tiledata?
13:42 <FIQ> it seems to just ignore the option
13:42 <FIQ> on eu
13:42 <stenno> works fine for me
13:42 <stenno> i rhink
13:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Hekik (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:43537
13:42 <stenno> (disregard :|)
13:42 <FIQ> well not for me
13:42 <FIQ> and I have a default config on xnh eu
13:43 <stenno> isn't it just OPTIONS=vt_tiledata
13:43 <FIQ> besides adding vt_tiledata
13:43 <FIQ> in options
13:43 <FIQ> yes
13:43 <FIQ> OPTIONS=vt_tiledata
13:43 <stenno> and how did you verify that you don't get vt_tiledata
13:43 <FIQ> https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/F/FIQ/xnethack/FIQ.xnhrc
13:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Bar Hum Mal Neu), 2208 points, T:2105, killed by a dwarf
13:43 <FIQ> by trying to set a tileset on the wstty thing
13:43 <K2> hmm
13:44 <FIQ> it works fine in evilhack except evilhack doesn't seem to have a tileset
13:44 <stenno> oh, is there an xnethack tileset?
13:44 <K2> lemme look at the hints file
13:44 <FIQ> but besides that, no problem
13:44 <aosdict> stenno: yes
13:44 <stenno> neat
13:44 <K2> easy fix if tile data isnt set
13:44 <{Demo}> xnh doesn't change any tiles, right?
13:44 -!- remirol is now known as lroimer
13:44 -!- lroimer is now known as lorimer
13:44 <aosdict> vt_tiledata as per vanilla rules requires TTY_TILES_ESCCODES to be set at compilation, and only turns it up if set in the file
13:44 <FIQ> the reason I was asking
13:44 <aosdict> {Demo}: I tweaked a couple vanilla tiles, and grass and engravings have tiles
13:45 <K2> # if TTY_TILES_ESCCODES
13:45 <K2> WINSRC += tile.c
13:45 <K2> WINOBJ += tile.o
13:45 <K2> so thats in hints
13:45 <{Demo}> hey aos, epic goal for you, tiles that can reflect material patch
13:45 <K2> lemme check config.h
13:45 <FIQ> is because I was pondering on whether or not it was possible to add it in curses
13:45 <aosdict> {Demo}: no.
13:45 <FIQ> I think the answer is "no"
13:45 <{Demo}> :(
13:45 <FIQ> curses doesn't much like when you try to add escape sequences yourself and not use its functions
13:45 <FIQ> IIRC
13:45 <K2> it is not defined 
13:45 <K2> again, easy fix
13:46 <K2> i need to do an xnh update anyways
13:47 <K2> aosdict warnings during compile
13:47 <aosdict> I didn't get any
13:48 <K2> and this is live server compile process which is much more lenient
13:48 <K2> FIQ try tiles now
13:48 <K2> aosdict - https://termbin.com/bf45
13:49 <FIQ> K2: works, ty
13:49 <K2> o/
13:49 <stenno> nice
13:50 <aosdict> I removed dokick.o and NOW I get warnings. the question is how did I get a dokick.o built later than dokick.c?
13:50 <FIQ> hmm
13:50 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
13:50 <FIQ> is there no way to recognize tame pets in xnh tiles?
13:50 <FIQ> wstiles
13:51 <aosdict> I'm not a tiles expert so I don't know how that works
13:51 <FIQ> does vt_tiledata even give you the correct data?
13:51 <aosdict> in the X11 windowport they get the little heart, right?
13:51 <FIQ> yeah
13:51 <FIQ> fun fact: iirc AceHack hijacks the same glyph special case pets use, to add underline for some monsters
13:52 <K2> xNetHack updated (all servers)
13:52 <K2> ^ now with tile support on hdf
13:52 <aosdict> K2: now I can't force push :/
13:52 <K2> :/
13:53 <K2> woooo look at them tiles
13:54 <aosdict> FIQ: Are the tame tile overlays even defined in the win/share/*.txt files?
13:54 <aosdict> Or is it the sole responsibility of each windowport to decide how to render it
13:55 -!- Irestine has joined #hardfought
13:55 <FIQ> aosdict: some grepping doesn't reveal anything
13:55 * aosdict casts detect unseen at the win/ directory!
13:55 <FIQ> for pets, there is a MG_PET flag in special
13:56 <FIQ> from mapglyph(g, &ch, &color, &special, i, j);
13:56 <stenno> you should read the wiki article about vt_tiledata :3
13:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) rejected atheism by offering a green mold corpse on an altar of Mog, on T:3566
13:58 <stenno> i wrote a few things there regarding 3.6.x tiles
13:58 <K2> xNetHack updated (all servers)
14:00 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought
14:00 <stenno> you could patch vt_tiledata to include peaceful i guess
14:00 <stenno> that'd be a funny task
14:01 <AntiVirus> Meanwhile, back in the dungeons of doom, AntiVirus found two magic lamps in Itschak's lighting store.....now if only he had an altar
14:01 <Hekik> will it anger anyone if I sit on the throne at the quest home level?
14:01 <stenno> Hekik: apart from me personally, no
14:01 <Hekik> hah
14:01 <K2> you'll make grandpa cross
14:01 <K2> otherwise no
14:01 <K2> stenno = grandpa?
14:02 <FIQ> hmm
14:02 <K2> papa!
14:02 <stenno> not to my klowledge
14:02 <FIQ> should I make fiqhack color the `s according to monster type?
14:02 <K2> \o/
14:02 <stenno> knowledge*
14:02 <FIQ> ` statue
14:02 <bubbles_nhww> So it looks like Terminal.app does not support reprogramming the color palette
14:02 <bubbles_nhww> BUT
14:03 <bubbles_nhww> it does allow proper 24bit color
14:03 <bubbles_nhww> Which obvs curses/uncursed can't access
14:03 <FIQ> curses should be able to handle at least 256 colors
14:03 <FIQ> uncursed doesn't even have that I think
14:03 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought
14:03 <bubbles_nhww> Looks like curses doens't support this mode
14:03 <Hekik> you'll be happy to know I left the throne alone
14:04 <stenno> phew
14:04 <bubbles_nhww> Does everything support "\e[C;2;R;G;Bm" ?
14:04 <bubbles_nhww> Or at least everytthing I might care about
14:05 <FIQ> http://nethack4.org/blog/portable-terminal-codes.html
14:05 <bubbles_nhww> ta
14:05 <FIQ> Hekik: no wishing?
14:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 11648 points, T:4819, killed by an owlbear
14:09 <bubbles_nhww> Geh, looks like it always uses the palette
14:10 <AntiVirus> oh wait, actually 3 lamps
14:10 <AntiVirus> wow, how did I get so lucky
14:10 <AntiVirus> 3 magic lamps in the store
14:12 <jonathanhanes> excuse me
14:12 <jonathanhanes> but how do trees
14:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed the invisible bubbles' ghost, the former Acolyte, on T:1326
14:12 <jonathanhanes> much less fruit
14:12 <jonathanhanes> grow in a dungeon?
14:12 <AntiVirus> rebatela, wooot bones
14:13 <AntiVirus> rebatela, how you doing dude. it's been a minute
14:13 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
14:15 <rebatela> doing ok man. how goes it? 
14:15 <AntiVirus> haha good except for shooting myself with finger of death
14:15 <rebatela> found your bones in last game along with k2's and like 2 other ones. You named sting and i was cursing you out 
14:15 <AntiVirus> hahaaaa
14:15 <AntiVirus> you must have found a low level bones file
14:15 <aosdict> jonathanhanes: who installed sinks randomly around the dungeon? a wizard did it.
14:15 <rebatela> yep 
14:16 <AntiVirus> I might have left one in Juiblex that is amazing
14:16 <rebatela> had a great start- speed boots, boh, many spells, just got the luckstone and chameleon got me in minetown 
14:16 <AntiVirus> just let me know if you end up in the swamp and kill my ghost
14:16 <rebatela> yeah, I've left some pretty rad bones in gehennom 
14:16 <AntiVirus> you'll probably have to fish my stuff out of the water
14:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 261 points, T:271, killed by a goblin
14:16 <AntiVirus> yeah wow
14:17 <AntiVirus> yeah I just had an epic 3 magic lamp find in minetown right now
14:17 <winny> nice =)
14:17 <rebatela> very nice 
14:17 <AntiVirus> like never seen that before
14:17 <AntiVirus> but yeah I really thought that wizard was going to make it
14:17 <AntiVirus> I got crowned etc etc
14:17 <aosdict> !tell NeroOneTrueKing "YANI: add a variable u.actionspeed, which determines how many movement points a player's action costs (for moderate-to-small-cost actions, <=18 or so)" <-- can you elaborate on this a bit?
14:17 <Beholder> I'm on it, aosdict.
14:18 <AntiVirus> my numberpad was my weakness. I thought you would find that funny
14:18 <rebatela> heh. no i feel bad 
14:18 <AntiVirus> the 3 key is way to close to the period. It's very easy to target yourself
14:19 <rebatela> you can fat finger with vi keys too though 
14:19 <rebatela> i mean... the 'l' is very close to . on my kb 
14:19 <AntiVirus> true, but the n key is far from the period
14:19 <AntiVirus> oh yeah true
14:20 <rebatela> if you're not on home row you hit . instead of l. i've done it. 
14:20 <rebatela> i've never cast finger of death on myself, BUT
14:20 <AntiVirus> haha
14:20 <AntiVirus> yeah I think the consiquences of l or . are pretty low
14:20 <rebatela> i have stone to fleshed myself and like your rings if stone turn to meat rings 
14:20 <rebatela> and i've polymorphed by accident. 
14:20 <AntiVirus> the consiquences of "where would you like to aim this instadeath ray?"
14:20 <rebatela> polymorphed my STASH by accident 
14:20 <AntiVirus> diagonal down right? or at yourself?
14:20 <AntiVirus> eeep
14:21 <AntiVirus> big hurt
14:21 <rebatela> yeah... i know the feeling 
14:21 <AntiVirus> I donno, it was the end of my run. You know the feeling? when things start to go wrong?
14:21 <AntiVirus> that had already set in
14:21 <rebatela> it's frustrating to die in EH, but in a way it's comforting knowing that it's really hard 
14:22 <AntiVirus> like, I didn't realize I was unmagic protected
14:22 <AntiVirus> hit a poly trap, broke armor and tore my cloak
14:22 <rebatela> i'm not over my sea dragon death 
14:22 <AntiVirus> yeah, I bet
14:22 <rebatela> that may have left bones 
14:22 <AntiVirus> yeah I was sprinting for them
14:22 <AntiVirus> I got to lvl 39
14:22 <AntiVirus> got nailed by a polytrap
14:22 <AntiVirus> and had to rethink my armor
14:22 <rebatela> oh hah
14:22 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
14:22 <rebatela> yeah 
14:23 <AntiVirus> branchported back to soko
14:23 <rebatela> you didn't have MR? 
14:23 <AntiVirus> I didn't realize the eye of Aetheopica needs to be worn for MR
14:23 <rebatela> could wear eye 
14:23 <rebatela> yeah
14:23 <rebatela> 3.6 change 
14:23 <AntiVirus> and I was fine, because of reflection from dragonbane
14:23 <AntiVirus> pretty well protected anyway
14:23 <rebatela> not fine for polytraps lol 
14:23 <rebatela> i'm super careful about that stuff because losing robe REALLY SUCKS 
14:23 <AntiVirus> and it was actually the 2nd polytrap I hit now that I think about it
14:24 <AntiVirus> the first one was "you feel momentarily different"
14:24 <rebatela> you can also wear unchanging or ring of polycontrol 
14:24 <AntiVirus> I didn't think hard enough about that message lol
14:24 <AntiVirus> true true
14:24 <AntiVirus> I think my rings were busy
14:24 <rebatela> but kind of scary being that far in gehennom without MR anyway
14:24 <AntiVirus> totally, I was being dumb
14:24 <rebatela> well, no you thought you had it. i see  
14:25 <AntiVirus> yeah I was pretty well set up before that poly trap
14:25 <rebatela> but yeah, when i play priests or monks, i take the robe off at DL 8 if i don't have protection against those traps 
14:25 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:25 <AntiVirus> I had switched to shimmering DSM
14:25 <AntiVirus> because I had reflection from dragonbane, and thought MR from the eye
14:25 <rebatela> oh did you turn into a dragon? 
14:25 <AntiVirus> yeah a shimmering dragon
14:26 <rebatela> and you rip t-shirt 
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14:26 <AntiVirus> so I actually had reflection, displacement, stealth, speed etc etc
14:26 <AntiVirus> yeah ripped the +5 sirt
14:26 <AntiVirus> *shirt
14:26 <rebatela> in 3.43 you only had to carry it 
14:26 <AntiVirus> and I had a cloak of protection, that ripped
14:26 <rebatela> you do still get the PW regen from carrying but not mr
14:27 <AntiVirus> I had pretty much all the defenses in the game except MR
14:27 <AntiVirus> including all the crowning resistances
14:27 <AntiVirus> yeah and the power regen is crazy. Full time spellcasting
14:27 <rebatela> that's why i always wish for it 
14:27 <AntiVirus> I had a full set of attack spells
14:29 <AntiVirus> cone of cold, fireball, lightning, finger of death
14:31 <AntiVirus> yeah so the sea dragon, there are a few of them in Gehennom
14:31 <AntiVirus> that's a hard one for a melee role
14:32 <rebatela> i had a million things i could have done 
14:32 <AntiVirus> yeah isn't that always the way
14:32 <rebatela> just wasn't paying attention that i was being strangled 
14:33 -!- Yratt has joined #hardfought
14:35 <rebatela> i need 3 magic lamps dammit 
14:35 <rebatela> i'm due for an early wow actually 
14:35 -!- attie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
14:36 <FIQ> the fact that you basically need eota for proper spellcasting is dumb
14:37 <FIQ> aosdict: vanilla has another options array, iflags
14:37 <FIQ> meant to be for interface purposes
14:37 <FIQ> it has the distinction of being possible to extend without breaking saves
14:37 <FIQ> in return, the option will not survive a save+load
14:38 <Yratt> Does anyone else get input lag spikes here and there?  First time using putty recently on this desktop and I've been getting a few hitches for 1-4 seconds here and there
14:40 <rebatela> fiq: i agree... and once you have cast with the eota for a game, there's really no going back 
14:42 <AntiVirus> yeah well if it makes you feel better one of them is platinum and costs 711zm
14:42 <AntiVirus> but yeah what a start. If I only had an altar
14:42 <AntiVirus> I could very well die before these become wishes
14:42 <bouquet> dev question... I heard a rumor that monsters and equipment might be getting a workover to accommodate yaml sources?
14:42 <Beholder> bouquet: Message from AntiGulp at 2019-10-29 09:35 EDT: The void isn’t worth exploring, unless you’re going for a strat where you tame the void dragon, in which case the void is awesome.
14:43 <FIQ> bouquet: ?
14:43 <K2> Yratt which server you playing on?
14:43 <FIQ> hmm
14:43 <aosdict> bouquet: AFAIK there aren't any devteam plans, but it's something I'd applaud if someone created a system for it
14:43 <K2> and are you Hratt?
14:43 <FIQ> I remember a time when I had a zapm macro running to farm stuff
14:43 <Yratt> hardfought and yeah
14:44 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought
14:44 <FIQ> I left it on for a few hours and did other things
14:44 <FIQ> later on, people complained on having server connectivity issues
14:44 <Yratt> I'm figuring it's a local issue on my end with this desktop
14:44 <FIQ> "oops"
14:44 <FIQ> Yratt: you mean US presumably
14:45 <Yratt> Right, forgot there were different regions
14:45 <bouquet> seems like an epic undertaking.  I can help by cheerleading efforts.
14:45 <bouquet> and that's about it.
14:46 <bubbles_nhww> Would people prefer data-driver items and monsters?
14:46 <K2> sorry had to step away for a couple min
14:46 <K2> Yratt use this - https://www.hardfought.org/server_status/network_tools/network_tool_hdf_us/
14:46 <bubbles_nhww> data-driven *
14:46 <FIQ> bubbles_nhww: it's something I've wanted to see for the dungeon itself
14:46 <K2> can help you figure out where the issue may lie
14:46 <FIQ> both the dungeon structure
14:46 <bubbles_nhww> oh like describing the branches and stuff?
14:46 <FIQ> and special levels
14:46 <bubbles_nhww> Yeah
14:47 <K2> you can ping or traceroute back to yourself
14:47 <bubbles_nhww> I guess one downside is if it gets too complicated it ends up being another programming language to learn
14:47 <FIQ> hmm
14:48 <FIQ> the NetHack drawbridge code is... pelicular
14:48 <rld> <@Umby> Hi
14:48 <Beholder> Hello @Umby, Welcome to #hardfought
14:48 <FIQ> because unlike every single other place in the code
14:48 <rld> <@Umby> How's everyone
14:48 <FIQ> it actually treats the game as if it had a proper ECS
14:48 <FIQ> it does not
14:49 <FIQ> so half of the code is basically wrappers to allow the code to pretend that it does
14:49 <bubbles_nhww> heh
14:49 <FIQ> object, monsters and players are all converted into entities
14:49 <FIQ> with common field across them
14:49 <FIQ> and functions to mess with them in various ways
14:50 <FIQ> and then a set of functions that convert to/from this
14:50 <FIQ> <+ais523_> I guess whenever you look at any part of NetHack code in details,
14:50 <FIQ> <+ais523_> apart from the drawbridge code
14:51 <FIQ> <+ais523_> which works by assuming that the rest of NetHack follows a sane
14:51 <FIQ> storage model and then tries to warp reality around it to fit
14:51 <FIQ> 1st line: +you just find a mound of special cases taped together by global variables
14:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) crowned King of the Angles, on T:27855
14:57 <Hekik> ha! poly'd me a magic marker
14:57 <rld> <@Umby> Nice
14:58 <rld> <@Umby> I'm finally starting a Soko stash with this ranger
14:58 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
14:59 <rld> <@Umby> Still hunting for a particular ring, might try to polypile if I get enough junk ones
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15:01 <bubbles_nhww> Can someone on linux check something real quick for me - default uncursed what is color 16, e.g. init_pair(1, 1, 16); ?
15:01 <bubbles_nhww> Or is it undefined :-
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15:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:40668
15:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 74608 points, T:16994, killed by a rock troll
15:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:40675
15:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +2 gauntlets of power", on T:41112
15:31 <BEHiker91W>  Does a #quit leave bones?
15:32 <AntiVirus> I don't think so. It's not a death
15:33 <Irestine> Bones requires a death.
15:34 <aosdict> Remember when you ragequit: even if YOU don't have anything else to live for, try to think of if anyone else would have something to live for if they found your stuff!
15:36 <BEHiker91W> aosdict: And please drop your stuff before dying, if ant of it would be more helpful uncursed.
15:37 <Cevn> I never quite thought of it that way and I'm ashamed to admit i #quit rather often. 
15:37 <Cevn> I know it's a real problem I'm seeking therapy. 
15:38 <Cevn> I will start dropping my items and suiciding to newts in the future 
15:39 <bubbles_nhww> FIQ (you are my go-to curses fellow at the moment, feel free to tell me to stop asking) why does uncursed use wchar_t
15:40 <bubbles_nhww> Instead of just char and utf8?
15:40 <bubbles_nhww> Do more terms support utf16?
15:40 <BEHiker91W> Cevn: Remeber that it doesn't make any difference below DL4. That's the minimum for bones. Until then, ragequit all you want.
15:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 2878 points, T:3781, killed by a vampire, while being terrified of a ghost
15:41 <FIQ> bubbles_nhww: ask ais523 that question, I don't know the answer
15:41 <AntiVirus> haha cevn
15:41 <bubbles_nhww> Ok no worries, thanks!
15:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 744 points, T:1808, killed by a bolt of cold
15:49 <bhaak> what? libuncursed uses wchar_t?
15:49 <bhaak> wtf
15:49 <bhaak> why?
15:50 <{Demo}> why is dgl setup so messy?
15:55 <bubbles_nhww> bhaak I don't know 
15:55 <bubbles_nhww> I think it might be utf8 in whcar_t
15:55 <bubbles_nhww> Oh, no
15:55 <bubbles_nhww> It stores in a wchar_t buffer I think utf16
15:55 <bhaak> that's implementation dependant. wchar_t can be anything.
15:55 <bubbles_nhww> And then for each character that is drawn it converts to utf8
15:56 <bubbles_nhww> And then gives back to the "plugin"
15:56 <bubbles_nhww> Ah no, not quite right
15:56 <bhaak> are you on windows?
15:56 <bubbles_nhww> It stores the buffers as UCS2
15:56 <bubbles_nhww> And then converts to UTF8 on the fly
15:56 <bubbles_nhww> It does this on all platforms
15:56 <bubbles_nhww> The "normalised" storage is ucs2 (in a whcar_t buffer), which is then transcoded to utf8 on platforms that want that
15:56 <bhaak> can you point me to a file and linenumber?
15:57 <bubbles_nhww> Sure
15:57 <bubbles_nhww> https://github.com/tsadok/nethack4/blob/master/libuncursed/src/libuncursed.c#L2629
15:58 <bubbles_nhww> Sorry there isn't a mainline nethack4 github as far as I can see
15:58 <bhaak> no problem, that is enough
15:59 <bubbles_nhww> So the tty plugin will, for each character, call back up into uncursed to request the utf8
16:00 <bubbles_nhww> Whereas wincon will request ucs2
16:00 <bubbles_nhww> https://github.com/tsadok/nethack4/blob/master/libuncursed/src/plugins/wincon.c#L170
16:01 <bubbles_nhww> https://github.com/tsadok/nethack4/blob/master/libuncursed/src/plugins/tty.c#L1284
16:01 <bubbles_nhww> no idea why that is bold
16:01 <bubbles_nhww> Do not look at the impl of uncursed_rhook_cp437_at
16:01 <bubbles_nhww> Please.
16:02 <bhaak> nifty. not
16:03 <bubbles_nhww> Really the entire thing should be compiled "natively" for windows/unix
16:03 <bubbles_nhww> So the storage and output match
16:04 <bubbles_nhww> Then just demand utf8 at the input, and on windows translate utf8->ucs2 on input
16:07 <bhaak> I can see that you want essentially a utf32 for internal storage. but wchar_t is not really worth the trouble usually
16:08 <rld> <@PsyMar> aha, this is where this channel is.  I was looking on irc >_<
16:08 <aosdict> on irc this is #hardfought
16:08 -!- merleke has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
16:08 <stenno> lol
16:08 <bubbles_nhww> bhaak yeah utf32 would be fine for internal storage
16:09 <bubbles_nhww> Though I don't see the big deal in compiling the internal storage nativelty
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16:09 <rld> <@PsyMar> aha
16:09 <PsyMar> and aha
16:10 <stenno> ...utf32?
16:10 <stenno> what why
16:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor (10 times), on T:50974
16:10 <aosdict> stenno: because we need pizza emoji monsters
16:10 <rld> <@PsyMar> that seems... a slightly buggy message
16:10 <rld> <@PsyMar> no, pizza emoji replaces %
16:10 <bubbles_nhww> stenno it's easier to process
16:10 <rld> <@PsyMar> at that point write in python
16:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3624
16:11 <bubbles_nhww> But yeah I agree utf8 or ucs2 depending on the platform!!
16:11 <rld> <@PsyMar> you aren't programming C for "easier to process"
16:11 <bhaak> stenno: if you want to operate on the characters, having them in 1 byte instead of multiple bytes is preferrable
16:11 <bubbles_nhww> 1 word
16:11 <stenno> which platforms need ucs-2 support?
16:11 <bubbles_nhww> Windows
16:11 <stenno> :I
16:11 <stenno> bhaak: ok
16:11 <bhaak> erm, yeah, 1 word
16:11 <rld> <@PsyMar> right, utf32 is 4 bytes
16:12 <rld> <@PsyMar> how long is a word on your computer
16:12 <rld> <@PsyMar> I lost all concept of a "word" some time ago
16:12 <rld> <@PsyMar> except in scrabble
16:12 <bubbles_nhww> I wonder if Windows has enough utf8 support
16:12 <bubbles_nhww> But I suspect there are horrible people still using win7 or something
16:12 <rld> <@PsyMar> it certainly has utf-16
16:12 <bubbles_nhww> *glares at amy*
16:12 <rld> <@PsyMar> that's how strings get encoded in executables for windows
16:12 <stenno> utf-16 is what windows calls 'unicode' 
16:12 <rld> <@PsyMar> ...I still have an XP machine for gaming
16:12 <stenno> confusingly enough
16:13 <bubbles_nhww> It's whether the console has an API that allows giving it utf8 text
16:13 <rld> <@PsyMar> yeah I think I've done that
16:13 <rld> <@PsyMar> well, via copy/paste so god knows how it's encoded
16:13 <LarienTelrunya> bubbles_nh: what?
16:13 <rld> <@PsyMar> I only use a cygwin console on windows anyway
16:13 <bubbles_nhww> Nothing!
16:13 <rld> <@PsyMar> for the most part
16:13 <bubbles_nhww> I was being mean for no reason LarienTelrunya
16:14 <bubbles_nhww> Also you use windows rihgt?
16:14 <bubbles_nhww> right*
16:14 <LarienTelrunya> my other PC still has windows XP :P
16:14 <bubbles_nhww> I knew it!
16:14 <LarienTelrunya> this one has 7
16:14 <bubbles_nhww> I remembered
16:14 <bubbles_nhww> \o/
16:14 <stenno> jesus
16:14 <bubbles_nhww> Do you use the native terminal on your windows 7 machine?
16:14 <LarienTelrunya> also I've heard it's possible to install XP even on newer machines, but it's apparently not that easy
16:14 <jonathanhanes> larientelrunya: I saw your post on reddit that you could only use termrec to view ttyrec in an 80x25 window
16:15 <LarienTelrunya> "native terminal"? you mean for playing slex? nah, google chrome whateveritscalled shell extension
16:15 <jonathanhanes> but if you resize the window first and then load the ttyrec you can view them at any size
16:15 <rld> <@PsyMar> I used XP in a linux virtualbox once
16:15 <bubbles_nhww> Ahh
16:15 <LarienTelrunya> jonathanhanes really??? I have to test that
16:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (disenchanter), on T:3874
16:15 <rld> <@PsyMar> Also, I think shell is ansi by default, because I output terminal resizing characters to the terminal and it worked
16:15 <jonathanhanes> let me know if it works on your machine :)
16:16 <jonathanhanes> that's what I always do
16:16 <rld> <@PsyMar> but that was from python not c
16:16 <bubbles_nhww> I don't want to have to write my own ununcursed ;_;
16:21 <aosdict> YANI: a new type of ant (or behavior for existing ants) that digs and will tunnel out corridors, eventually turning a whole level into its anthole. The tunneling prioritizes using and connecting up existing corridors rather than just indiscriminately destroying rock.
16:22 <Hekik> sounds like some hairy code
16:22 <LarienTelrunya> jonathanhanes holy shit it works!!! thanks a lot ♥
16:22 <jonathanhanes> glad to help out :D
16:23 <bubbles_nhww> aosdict ants should seek out food and bring it back to their nest
16:23 <bubbles_nhww> aosdict and spawn new ants
16:24 <bubbles_nhww> And now I home
16:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 1755644 points, T:51176, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/I/IceBox/nethack/dumplog/1570739822.nh.html
16:26 -!- shadowcat has joined #hardfought
16:26 <jonathanhanes> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBgiU_rNDxs
16:26 <jonathanhanes> mountable boulders when?
16:26 <aosdict> YANI: queen bees death drop a few killer bee eggs
16:27 -!- {Demo}3 has joined #hardfought
16:28 -!- {Demo} has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:28 -!- {Demo} has joined #hardfought
16:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] every (Cav Dwa Mal Law), 83839 points, T:25250, quit
16:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law), 164 points, T:1440, killed by a jackal
16:30 <jonathanhanes> !lastgame every
16:30 <Beholder> jonathanhanes: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/e/every/nethack/dumplog/1570642980.nh.html
16:31 <jonathanhanes> !pom
16:31 <Beholder> jonathanhanes: The moon is new for 1 more day.
16:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:29429
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16:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law), 187 points, T:747, killed by an iron ball collision
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16:53 <bubbles_nh> malor please
16:53 <bubbles_nh> If you ascend again you will make me feel so bad about myself
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17:04 <{Demo}> im gonna ascend never
17:04 <{Demo}> i quit
17:04 <{Demo}> im ascension striking against... ??? not enough carl the woodchuck in vanilla
17:05 <stenno> wip release?
17:05 <{Demo}> i should play fh
17:05 <FIQ> there
17:05 <FIQ> now sokoban have holes
17:05 <FIQ> :D
17:06 <{Demo}> what
17:06 <{Demo}> im in soko in fh what r u doing
17:06 <{Demo}> fiq r u in there with me??
17:06 <FIQ> I mean
17:06 <{Demo}> its 2a
17:06 <FIQ> now sokoban 1a/1b have holes
17:06 <{Demo}> i could totally see u hanging around 2a
17:06 <stenno> holes to where
17:06 <{Demo}> 2a i hope
17:06 <{Demo}> thats like hell but worse
17:07 <stenno> soko goes up
17:08 <{Demo}> i finally figured it out
17:08 <{Demo}> sokoban is supposed to be a drinking game
17:10 <FIQ> stenno: to the level below
17:10 <FIQ> where else would it go
17:10 <FIQ> as in
17:10 <FIQ> the level where you enter sokoban
17:10 <{Demo}> can u remove 2a?
17:11 <{Demo}> or do the vlad thing
17:11 <bubbles_nh> A drinking game?
17:11 <bubbles_nh> Tell me more
17:12 <rld> <@PsyMar> which is 2a
17:12 <rld> <@PsyMar> also vlad thing?
17:12 <rld> <@PsyMar> oh, it's the 2 I suck at
17:13 <bubbles_nh> yeah 2a is the suckiest
17:13 <bubbles_nh> The worst thing about slashem and friends is they added MORE sokoban
17:13 <bubbles_nh> With M == N
17:13 <{Demo}> liberate sokoban
17:14 <bubbles_nh> Turn sokoban into a stealth quest \o/
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17:16 <FIQ> this is of course assuming that the hole only sends you down a single level
17:16 <FIQ> it will happily go all the way to votd
17:16 <FIQ> or VS, even
17:16 <FIQ> in theory
17:16 <FIQ> from sokoban to main dungeon to gehennom to vs
17:17 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
17:17 <stenno> FIQ: you leave the branch through a trapdoor?
17:17 <FIQ> stenno: no
17:17 <FIQ> a regular hole
17:17 <stenno> or through a hole, yeah
17:17 <FIQ> just like the upper soko levels
17:18 <FIQ> sokoban 1[ab] is no different in this regard
17:18 <stenno> i don't really get it lol
17:18 <FIQ> well basically
17:18 <stenno> didn't you just say you made sokoban 1a/b holes
17:18 <FIQ> previously, with the exception of the castle-votd special case
17:18 <stenno> so if you fall in that hole
17:18 <stenno> o-you land in the DoD again?
17:18 <{Demo}> fiq why would u make any change to soko that isnt nuking it?
17:18 <FIQ> you cannot fall from one branch to a parent branch
17:18 <FIQ> this is what I changed
17:19 <stenno> FIQ: tehn what are you falling into>?
17:19 <stenno> oh ok
17:19 <FIQ> meaning you can now fall through sokoban back to the main dungeon
17:19 <stenno> i seen now
17:19 <stenno> ah ok
17:19 <FIQ> since I did this
17:19 <aosdict> is there a reason or is that arbitrary?
17:19 <FIQ> there was no longer a reason for sokoban 1 to have pits
17:19 * aosdict would like to not allow pit hopping on soko 1a
17:19 <FIQ> aosdict: the reason it works that way atm is mostly technical
17:20 <FIQ> like 99% of the change was implementing the ability for you to move across branches when falling
17:20 <FIQ> this also allowed me to trivially remove the castle-votd special case
17:20 <FIQ> meaning you're now able to fall all the way to the VS
17:20 <FIQ> in theory
17:20 <Hekik> isn't that how you enter gehennom in vanilla though? from castle to VoD?
17:20 <Hekik> or is it not a branch?
17:21 <FIQ> Hekik: the game specifically checks if you're on the castle
17:21 <rld> <@PsyMar> It is -- but it's a special case
17:21 <FIQ> and then make the trap doors explicitly make you fall to the votd
17:21 <Hekik> ah
17:21 <rld> <@PsyMar> ...I just found a online sokoban thing that had Nethack 2a
17:21 <FIQ> this special case was removed
17:21 <rld> <@PsyMar> and I managed to do it from memory in 7 minutes 3 seconds
17:21 <FIQ> since it's now possible to fall across branches in general
17:21 <rld> <@PsyMar> 1399 steps, best is apparently 1121, but
17:21 <FIQ> best probably involves trapping boulders
17:22 <{Demo}> does fh randomize soko prize?
17:22 <FIQ> it does not
17:22 <{Demo}> thanks
17:22 <FIQ> I wanted to do soko as little as possible
17:22 <{Demo}> i found i have a reflec amu
17:22 <{Demo}> made it to soko final
17:22 <FIQ> and randomizing prize means I don't know what I actually get
17:22 <{Demo}> idk which level this one is
17:22 <FIQ> before I finish the level
17:22 <rld> <@PsyMar> is it the one with the rows of spaced apart boulders?
17:22 <{Demo}> yeah
17:22 <rld> <@PsyMar> or the one that's super-clogged
17:22 <FIQ> sokobag is the one with several rows off boulders
17:23 <rld> <@PsyMar> the former is bagoban
17:23 <{Demo}> not clog but layers
17:23 <FIQ> reflectoban is the sokoban with 2 rooms
17:23 <{Demo}> wait really layers is bag?
17:23 <{Demo}> yeeyeyyeyeyeye
17:23 <rld> <@PsyMar> yes
17:23 <FIQ> yes
17:23 <{Demo}> i hella need bag
17:23 <FIQ> I considered adding prize re-roll
17:23 <FIQ> but haven't so far
17:24 <FIQ> ultimately, I want to nerf sokoban prizes
17:24 <{Demo}> i need food
17:24 <FIQ> and move them to quest
17:24 <{Demo}> for altar scum
17:24 <{Demo}> cause fh makes it take FOREVER to get ur first arti
17:24 <{Demo}> if you are saccing low diff monsts
17:24 <FIQ> as in
17:24 <FIQ> nerf what you get from soko
17:24 <{Demo}> altar scum
17:25 <FIQ> and move current soko prizes to quest
17:25 <{Demo}> oh wohoa oh
17:27 <bubbles_nh> not bad not bad
17:27 <rld> <@luxidream> FIQ: sokoban prizes are already bad
17:27 <rld> <@luxidream> why nerf them
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17:29 <FIQ> to make players not feel forced to clear a branch they don't want to clear
17:29 <FIQ> while keeping it around for those who actually like sokoban
17:29 <aosdict> @luxidream how are they bad?
17:29 <aosdict> it's a free item which is usually ascension kit gear
17:30 <rld> <@luxidream> the bag of holding is nice to have but doesn’t help your survivability much
17:30 <rld> <@PsyMar> disagree
17:30 <rld> <@PsyMar> it helps you not be burdened
17:30 <rld> <@luxidream> and lol @ FH reflection
17:30 <rld> <@PsyMar> which helps survivability
17:30 <FIQ> luxidream is a speedrunner
17:30 <{Demo}> can fh bless my bag
17:30 <FIQ> I imagine he pickup less loot in general
17:30 <FIQ> and yes
17:30 <rld> <@PsyMar> FH?
17:30 <{Demo}> make soko prizes blessed
17:30 <FIQ> fh reflection, while not *bad* is a far cry from vanilla
17:31 <rld> <@luxidream> fiqhack
17:31 <rld> <@PsyMar> oh
17:31 <{Demo}> is it make it so wand of death wont kill me??
17:31 <rld> <@PsyMar> Unless you zap it .
17:31 <FIQ> {Demo}: for a time, skilled+ wand of death explosions was an instadeath without MR
17:31 <rld> <@luxidream> Also, I try to pick up as much loot as possible
17:31 <{Demo}> are ogres or trolls wand detection patch masters
17:31 <rld> <@PsyMar> oh wait in FH, no tsure
17:31 <FIQ> which made MR even more important than it was in vanilla
17:31 <{Demo}> wand destruction patch masters
17:31 <FIQ> since then I've changed it
17:31 <FIQ> it still hurts you
17:31 <{Demo}> how do i know if ogres and trolls are good with wands
17:31 <FIQ> but it's not an instadeath anymore
17:31 -!- Cevn_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
17:32 <FIQ> {Demo}: 4k has a spoiler page for monsters
17:32 <{Demo}> ok
17:32 <FIQ> since 4k also has wand rebalance, you can look at it
17:32 <{Demo}> is thoth amon mean in fh?
17:32 <rld> <@PsyMar> oh wait I'm not in the tourney channel
17:32 <rld> <@luxidream> the bag of holding is more important in real-time speedrun than normal play
17:32 <rld> <@luxidream> because you can just make a stash normally
17:32 <{Demo}> boh is important if ur dumb
17:32 <FIQ> {Demo}: I think he's about as strong as vanilla
17:32 <rld> <@luxidream> and carry escape items
17:32 <{Demo}> ok so weak?
17:32 <{Demo}> isnt he a caster?
17:32 <{Demo}> and doesnt fh buff casters?
17:32 <FIQ> his stats didn't change
17:32 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:32 <FIQ> his spells did
17:32 <FIQ> to player spells
17:33 <FIQ> and some can be bad I guess
17:33 <FIQ> but I mean, it's no worse than vanilla destroy armor
17:33 <rld> <@luxidream> denying player boh just makes the game less fun imo
17:33 <{Demo}> but AI is so much better
17:33 <FIQ> force bolt, magic missile, fireball, cone of cold, healing, detect monsters, sleep, slow monster, protection, turn undead, summon nasties, speed monster, invisibility, cancellation
17:33 <FIQ> ^ thoth amon's spells
17:33 <aosdict> so if sokoban provides an item that makes the game more fun to have...
17:34 <aosdict> it's not a bad item :P
17:34 <rld> <@luxidream> it shouldn’t be nerfed is my point
17:34 <FIQ> expert wands, expert atk, basic hea, skilled div, basic enc, expert clc, skilled esc, skilled mat
17:34 <{Demo}> damn those r some mean spells
17:34 <FIQ> ^ thoth amon's skills
17:34 <rld> <@luxidream> what are you going to put there, a sack and amulet of unchanging?
17:34 <{Demo}> sounds OP
17:35 <FIQ> @luxidream a sack with a set of wands and rings moved from the floor +2 of each
17:35 <aosdict> so that makes it even more random than currently
17:35 <FIQ> and I'm not intending to nerf sokoban by screwing over people with lack of rewards
17:36 <FIQ> I just want to move the actually good stuff from soko
17:36 <aosdict> you might get blah rings and wands of undead turning
17:36 <FIQ> to not force people to complete it if they don't want to
17:36 <FIQ> I could just as well have 3 chests with normal chest stuff if the above is potentially too strong
17:36 <rld> <@luxidream> I still don’t understand why the current rewards are overpowered
17:36 <bouquet> I tried out that Windows Store version of Nethack.  It was really slick!  Still going to stick to ascii like a graybeard
17:36 <FIQ> they're not overpowered
17:36 <FIQ> you don't get it
17:37 <FIQ> I don't want to *remove* the rewards
17:37 <FIQ> Just make you not have to complete SOkoban
17:37 <FIQ> to get it
17:37 <FIQ> *Sokoban
17:37 <rld> <@luxidream> the quest is post castle for many characters
17:37 <FIQ> quest-home too?
17:37 <FIQ> I intended it for quest-home
17:37 <FIQ> basically
17:37 <rld> <@luxidream> Ah, I thought you meant quest goal
17:37 <FIQ> populate it with a bunch of hostiles (for the roles that don't have this)
17:37 <FIQ> once you dispose of them all
17:38 <FIQ> quest leader thanks you and gives you a choice of the previous sokoban rewards
17:38 <aosdict> FIQ: you're still going to have people who feel the need to do sokoban even though they hate it because of the rings and wands
17:38 <FIQ> and make quest home not summon any more monsters
17:38 <aosdict> "oh I need a ring of free action, I hate sokoban but it might have one"
17:38 <FIQ> aosdict: so nerf it to the point where they don't while not making it literally pointless
17:39 <FIQ> basically I want to give a token reward for completing it for those who like to do it
17:39 <FIQ> but not force people to
17:39 <FIQ> perhaps a luckstone (in addition to the one in mines end)
17:39 <FIQ> so people have a choice of where to get one
17:39 <FIQ> idk
17:40 <rld> <@luxidream> would the quest leader still reward you if you are too low level
17:40 <FIQ> @luxidream yes, of course
17:40 <FIQ> as long as you kill all hostiles on the level
17:41 <rld> <@luxidream> difficulty varies of course
17:41 <rld> <@luxidream> good luck to a monk trying to get the soko prize lol
17:42 <FIQ> healer quest home vs ranger quest home
17:42 <FIQ> dragon spam vs... basically nothing iirc?
17:42 <FIQ> and this is fh dragons
17:42 <FIQ> so yeah
17:42 <rld> <@luxidream> oh yeah FH dragons
17:42 <rld> <@luxidream> No thanks
17:42 <FIQ> anyway I want to rebalance quest-home
17:42 <FIQ> to account for this
17:42 <FIQ> maybe move the dragons down to locate for healers, for example
17:43 <aosdict> ranger home has centaurs doesn't it?
17:43 <rld> <@luxidream> I think the centaurs can have attack wands
17:43 <FIQ> what level is AlbertB on in hdf-eu?
17:43 <rld> <@luxidream> knight can probably kill some quasits
17:43 <aosdict> FIQ: Why are there even dragons in the healer quest
17:44 <FIQ> looks unfamiliar to me
17:44 <FIQ> aosdict: I didn't place them there
17:44 <rld> <@luxidream> lol vanilla
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17:44 <aosdict> I know. Just saying there's literally no reason to have them in that quest at all
17:44 <FIQ> it looks really similar to khor mines end
17:44 <FIQ> but it's different
17:44 <rld> <@luxidream> makes more sense in knight quest
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17:44 <rld> <@Umby> Ranger has a lot of centaurs and scropions
17:44 <rld> <@luxidream> move the jellies to healer quest lol
17:45 <rld> <@Umby> Centaurs often have attack wands
17:45 <rld> <@Umby> And as a maze 0-2 minotaurs may generate
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17:45 <FIQ> @luxidream I sometimes wonder if vanilla quests were rushed for whatever reason
17:45 <aosdict> FIQ: it's the devteam ffice
17:45 <aosdict> office
17:45 <rld> <@luxidream> nah, there’s a sleeping minotaur
17:45 <FIQ> because it's easily the least flavourful place in the entire game
17:45 <rld> <@luxidream> but he’s easy enough to dispatch
17:46 <aosdict> I don't think ranger quest has mazes.
17:46 <FIQ> and is, in a lot of cases, nonsensical
17:46 <rld> <@luxidream> FIQ: look at the monk quest
17:46 <rld> <@luxidream> literally copypasta
17:46 <FIQ> monk quest is actually from SLASH'EM
17:46 <rld> <@Umby> The home level is a maze
17:46 <FIQ> @luxidream barbarian quest goal
17:46 <rld> <@Umby> So it's eligible for mino spawns
17:46 <rld> <@luxidream> ranger quest home is not random
17:46 <FIQ> is basically just a copy of the shittiest mines end
17:46 <rld> <@Umby> I didn't say it was random
17:47 <FIQ> ranger quest home is one of the worst levels in the game design-wise
17:47 <FIQ> several variants replace it
17:47 <rld> <@Umby> Just that it's an actual maze
17:47 <aosdict> FIQ: Part of the problem is that they all use the same structs and code
17:47 <rld> <@Umby> And frankly yeah
17:47 <rld> <@luxidream> what I’m saying is it’s not a maze
17:47 <aosdict> so all of them are the same
17:47 <FIQ> aosdict: yeah but
17:47 <FIQ> even with the current code constraints
17:47 <FIQ> you can do a lot more than what some quests do
17:47 <rld> <@Umby> It's a singular winding path through a set of tree arbitrarily blocked off by iron bars
17:47 <FIQ> I mean, compare valk quest
17:48 <FIQ> not exactly the most amazingly well-designed thing
17:48 <aosdict> meet leader, leader accepts you, you go through the locate level, you enter the goal level, kill the baddie, retrieve the arti, bring it back
17:48 <FIQ> but it's leaps above some of the other quests
17:48 <rld> <@Umby> Which for all intents and purposes is regarded as a maze by the game
17:48 * aosdict likes rogue quest
17:48 * aosdict REALLY likes rogue quest flavor
17:48 <rld> <@Umby> You're only saying that because it's Terry Pratchet
17:48 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:48 <rld> <@Umby> (not that you'd be incorrect)
17:48 <aosdict> @Umby that is not how the game decides to regard something as a maze
17:49 <rld> <@luxidream> well I’ve never seen two Minotaurs in the ranger quest, only a single sleeping one before the quest leader
17:49 <FIQ> @Umby are you thinking of tou quest now
17:49 <aosdict> yeah, rogue quest isn't pratchett inspired
17:49 <rld> <@luxidream> so that leads me to believe that it isn’t a maze
17:49 <aosdict> other than it has a thieves guild and assassins guild, which is not discworld specific
17:49 <aosdict> @luxidream it is NOT a maze
17:49 <rld> <@luxidream> you can also find the pregen level map in the code
17:49 <rld> <@Umby> Hm
17:49 <rld> <@Umby> Right then
17:50 <aosdict> sure the des file says MAZE:"Ran-home" but all that means is a special level that isn't room-based
17:50 <aosdict> it has nothing to do with minotaur generation
17:50 <rld> <@Umby> That's close to what I was going off initially
17:50 <rld> <@Umby> But I get it I s'pose
17:51 <aosdict> if MAZE-type levels generated minotaurs, there'd be minos in minetown lol
17:51 <aosdict> !lastgame AlbertB
17:51 <Beholder> aosdict: [hdf-us] (sorry, no dump exists for nh:AlbertB) | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AlbertB/nethack/dumplog/1571414988.nh.html
17:51 <rld> <@Umby> Also the MoT in Tourist quest is p. clearly Discworldy so I took it for granted that the Rouge MOT is the same
17:51 <rld> <@Umby> as was the Assassin's Guild
17:51 <FIQ> aosdict: there's a lot of things you can do without changing the baseline structure of the quest
17:51 <rld> <@luxidream> rougelike
17:51 <rld> <@Eternal Guardian> It's spelled roguelike.
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17:52 <FIQ> I don't intend to change quest baseline
17:52 <rld> <@Umby> or failing that took a page out of the books
17:52 <BEHiker91W> The mines should be eligible to generate random Balrogs. #Moria
17:52 <bubbles_nh> BOO
17:52 <FIQ> but I do want to make them more flavourful and varied eventually
17:52 <aosdict> FIQ: you've read my quest overhaul outline, right?
17:52 <FIQ> I probably have
17:52 <FIQ> but don't remember much
17:52 <BEHiker91W> Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone
17:52 <FIQ> wizard quest should have pw drain
17:52 <rld> <@Umby> Quests do need more flavor to them than the interchangeable generic fantasy vibe
17:52 <aosdict> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/Quest_level_redesign and https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/LevelsScratchpad
17:52 <aosdict> ^ quest overhaul design document
17:53 <FIQ> arc quest should perhaps have some kind of treasure hunting involved
17:53 <rld> <@luxidream> the dungeon filler rooms have got to go
17:53 <rld> <@luxidream> that’s a first
17:53 <aosdict> FIQ: I was considering making arc quest nemesisless
17:53 <rld> <@Umby> Ranger quest has a Hunt the Wumpus rokm
17:53 <rld> <@Umby> room*
17:53 <rld> <@Umby> v. neat imo
17:53 <rld> <@luxidream> go kill master kaen! He’s in the basement
17:53 <rld> <@luxidream> ???
17:54 <rld> <@Umby> But what's the point of treasure hunting if you don't foolishly awaken some variety or other of ancient guardian
17:54 <BEHiker91W> Arc quest should have have this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2ZpsbGr7s8
17:54 <rld> <@luxidream> orb of detection should be able to actually detect things
17:54 <K2> i remember playing hunt the wumpus on a ti99/4a
17:54 <rld> <@luxidream> revolutionary
17:55 <rld> <@Umby> but it does
17:55 <aosdict> I'd rather like to make detect monsters and detect objects scroll-based rather than potion
17:55 <BEHiker91W> TI 99/4A ftw
17:55 <FIQ> hahaha
17:55 <FIQ> I like the arc quest stakes
17:55 <rld> <@Umby> you just have to look into it like any other crystal ball
17:55 <rld> <@luxidream> not any better than the base item
17:55 <FIQ> had forgotten about that
17:55 <rld> <@Umby> 4Head
17:55 <K2> BEHiker91W i still have a working model, with the voice synth
17:55 <aosdict> FIQ: I am particularly fond of my redesigned College of Archeology
17:55 <FIQ> @luxidream that's kinda why I was contemplating making it give omniscience in terms of object location knowledge
17:55 <FIQ> because, well
17:56 <FIQ> Orb of Detection
17:56 <rld> <@luxidream> how op would infinite crystal ball charges be
17:56 <K2> !who
17:56 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] Hekik [nh363] samiam [nh363] Bliss56 [tnnt] jonathanhanes [tnnt] mosen [tnnt] malor5 [dnh] farfarello [4k] Ardub [xnh] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players
17:56 <FIQ> maybe make invoke effect monster detection, similar to the recent change to heart of ahriman
17:56 <FIQ> and give omniscient object detection while carried
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17:57 <rld> <@luxidream> knowing all objects is more interesting though
17:57 <jonathanhanes> would be nice if you could see your impending YASD in the crystal ball
17:57 <rld> <@luxidream> then you can see all the markers and wow you miss in gehennom
17:57 <BEHiker91W> Arc quest should have Yma Sumac on the locate level. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYlguwsFPb4
17:57 <aosdict> FIQ: Also, I don't really recall how much I was trying to stay within the currently defined quest ideas when I wrote this. I think if I were going to start fresh, I'd make more radical changes (like replace OoD with Itchalysdsdjfhkjd)
17:58 <FIQ> the one that makes stinking clouds?
17:58 <aosdict> the one from unnethack
17:58 <rld> <@luxidream> What’s the flavor behind Itlachiayaque
17:58 <bubbles_nh> This wchar bullshit is so annoying
17:58 <rld> <@luxidream> or however you spell it
17:59 <aosdict> you mean the real life flavor or in-game
17:59 <BEHiker91W> That was the old Elf artifact, no?
17:59 <BEHiker91W> Before they eliminated Elfs from the game.
17:59 <rld> <@luxidream> what is it in real life
17:59 <aosdict> BEHiker91W: no that was the Palantir of Westerness (yet another crystal ball)
17:59 <K2> EvilHack updated (all servers)
17:59 <aosdict> westeresse
17:59 <aosdict> westernesse even
18:00 <aosdict> imagine if your QA was the one palantir that was 'not in accord with the others and looked only to the Sea'
18:00 <FIQ> crystal balls is basically non-existent in game in general
18:00 <FIQ> and yet nethack used to have them as quest rewards for 3 roles
18:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:4035
18:00 <aosdict> You look into the crystal ball. You see the ocean. That'll be 1 charge, bub.
18:00 <rld> <@luxidream> they’re simply too heavy and have not enough charges
18:00 <bubbles_nh> Well at least you can charge them up to like 255
18:00 <bubbles_nh> !!!
18:00 <FIQ> @luxidream I considered adding weight reduction to them
18:00 <aosdict> FIQ: I'm planning a slate of crystal ball buffs in xnethack 0.5.0
18:01 <FIQ> like Dragonbane already has in fh
18:01 <rld> <@luxidream> if those two problems can be solved they are totally useable
18:01 <FIQ> but that'd just encourage people to wish for OoF even more
18:01 <FIQ> not sure if I want this
18:01 <K2> aosdict said 'ball buffs'
18:01 <jilles> luxidream, they also paralyze you for a few turns
18:01 <rld> <@luxidream> I don’t like the xnh buffs because they don’t address either of those problems
18:01 <rld> <@luxidream> just give them arbitrary boosts to divination, encouraging me to keep one at my stash
18:01 <BEHiker91W> I use crystal balls on the elemental planes.
18:01 <FIQ> also when I play paci
18:01 <FIQ> I like to wish for oof
18:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:31562
18:01 <BEHiker91W> Especiallythe first one with all the Us.
18:01 <FIQ> so I can detect traps infinitely
18:02 <rld> <@Umby> Once you deal with the weight and low charges the paralysis thing isn't as big of a deal, that can prob. be left down to player discretion/awareness
18:02 <rld> <@Umby> At least imo
18:02 <rld> <@luxidream> oof is the same quality wish even with vanilla weight
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18:03 <rld> <@Umby> YASI: OoD but it's a less heavy Crystal Skull-like item
18:03 <rld> <@luxidream> but yeah aosdict i don’t like the xnh solution, especially since it’s rarely pressing to cast div spells
18:03 <rld> <@luxidream> the best divination spell is gone anyway
18:04 <rld> <@luxidream> and you can just wield the spellbook
18:04 <rld> <@luxidream> which is lighter
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18:06 <rld> <@luxidream> other items that should be lighter: tinning kit, morningstar, lance, plate armour
18:07 <BEHiker91W> Plate armour is a joke as it is. 
18:07 <bubbles_nh> Everyone forgets afternoonstar and eveningstar :-\
18:07 <aosdict> but I haven't implemented wielding a crystal ball and am not really planning to
18:07 <BEHiker91W> Used to be the best in the game. There's a reason Vald's has a bonus crystal plate.
18:07 <aosdict> @luxidream
18:07 <rld> <@luxidream> I thought that was part of the crystal ball buffs on the etherpad
18:07 <rld> <@luxidream> having them enhance divination spells
18:07 <AntiVirus> Crystal Plate in EH is awesome, like one step below DSM
18:08 <aosdict> emphasis on was
18:08 <BEHiker91W> Tinning kits are heavy, but people carry them because they're so good.
18:08 <AntiVirus> and, indestructible (unless poly) so better than DSM in that way
18:08 <BEHiker91W> lances should be yuge stars in the game, but the wieght just makes it silly.
18:08 <bubbles_nh> There should be varieties of lances
18:08 <rld> <@luxidream> tinning kits are useful for poison resistance
18:08 <bubbles_nh> So there is a more readily available supply of weaker ones
18:08 <bubbles_nh> So lance death isn't as big a deal
18:09 <bubbles_nh> e.g. "wooden lance/training lance"
18:09 <rld> <@luxidream> besides that you aren’t tinning much except nurse corpses
18:09 <rld> <@luxidream> and trolls maybe
18:09 <jilles> luxidream, and giants
18:09 <bubbles_nh> 40 weight, d3/d6 +d10
18:09 <rld> <@luxidream> not worth lugging around 100 units for
18:09 <bubbles_nh> Something like that
18:09 <BEHiker91W> Giants if you want to get 18/00 strength
18:09 <rld> <@luxidream> That’s become more difficult in 3.6
18:09 <aosdict> how about this for a tradeoff? tinning kits have a lot fewer charges but are lighter <-- YANI?
18:09 <rld> <@luxidream> so I usually settle for 18/01
18:09 <K2> huh
18:10 <BEHiker91W> You can replace a lance by polypile onces you get to the Castle.
18:10 <rld> <@luxidream> sure
18:10 <stenno> tinning kits can really be OP in certain situations
18:10 <rld> <@luxidream> who goes through the thirty odd charges it has in the first place
18:10 <K2> mithril tinning kit - lighter and fooproof
18:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:40, on T:45685
18:11 <BEHiker91W> Nothing burns and rusts anymore in 3.6 except arms and armour.
18:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:45710
18:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) averted death, on T:1790
18:11 <BEHiker91W> I used to ascend with rusty keys and such all the time.
18:12 <rld> <@luxidream> the difference between 18/01 and 18/** is +3 damage
18:12 <rld> <@Umby> I tend to carry around tinning kits for backup intrinsics in case shit happens
18:12 <rld> <@luxidream> the next damage increase occurs at 18/76
18:12 <rld> <@Umby> Also stuff like giant/dragon corpses
18:12 <rld> <@luxidream> it’s a royal pain to get there
18:13 <rld> <@luxidream> there is an carrying capacity bonus at 18/32 which I try to hit if I can
18:13 <rld> <@Umby> Lances aren't something I use outside of Knights but once you have the skill up lancelooping is stupid fun
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18:14 <stenno> priest can get basic with lance wtf
18:14 <stenno> why
18:15 <stenno> they can't even skill riding
18:15 <rld> <@luxidream> because it’s pointy
18:15 <rld> <@luxidream> not sharp
18:15 <rld> <@luxidream> therefore priest
18:15 <rld> <@luxidream> ??
18:16 <stenno> actually can get skilled in polearm lol
18:16 -!- nhmall has left #hardfought
18:17 * stenno will try a polearm priest build
18:17 <rld> <@Umby> Since we're talking unused/underpowered stuff
18:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had Giantslayer bestowed upon him by Odin, on T:2157
18:18 <rld> <@Umby> the polearm fixation in Nethack is pretty 🤔 (mostly more in the DnD stuff it drew inspriation from but lol)
18:18 <aosdict> @Umby the usual idea for polearms is to remove some of them
18:19 <aosdict> because it is very difficult to differentiate them adequately
18:19 <rld> <@luxidream> I think eggs are pretty underused as a confusion source
18:19 <rld> <@luxidream> and confused tele for that matter
18:20 <rld> <@luxidream> every reddit thread that can’t get back up from under Medusa
18:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:45849
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18:22 <rld> <@Umby> Levelport OP
18:25 <rld> <@Umby> bbl
18:25 <FIQ> aosdict: is there a good reason for Gehennom to be its own branch apart from the Dungeons of Doom?
18:25 <aosdict> ? what's your alternative
18:25 <FIQ> to be part of the main dungeon
18:25 <aosdict> have the dungeons continue all the way down to the Sanctum?
18:25 <AntiVirus> Umm, if affects branchport, and level port
18:25 <FIQ> yes
18:26 <AntiVirus> *I mean it affects that
18:26 <AntiVirus> not if
18:26 <FIQ> AntiVirus: you can already levelport all the way to dlvl1 from VS as-is
18:26 <aosdict> no you can't
18:26 <FIQ> you can
18:26 <aosdict> VS to level 1, yes
18:26 <AntiVirus> but not the other way
18:26 <AntiVirus> not from 1 past the valley
18:26 <FIQ> indeed, it stops you at votd
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18:26 <FIQ> no reason this can't be kept
18:26 <AntiVirus> hmm
18:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:45981
18:27 <AntiVirus> what would the difference in branchport be if I chose dungeons of doom instead of Gehennom
18:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:45982
18:27 <AntiVirus> Dungeons of Doom would put me....at the castle?
18:27 <aosdict> so this is just a semantic difference? you don't mean have the room-and-corridor levels continue down into hell?
18:27 <FIQ> aosdict: yes
18:27 <FIQ> AntiVirus: without any additional changes, it'd put you at the lowest possible leve
18:27 <FIQ> because that's what branchport does
18:28 <FIQ> *level
18:28 <AntiVirus> yeah
18:28 <aosdict> ok those two statements are contradictory so I don't know what you meant :P
18:28 <AntiVirus> deepest level visited
18:28 <FIQ> aosdict: medusa-castle filler is special
18:28 <aosdict> room and corridor continuing down into hell would be interesting
18:28 <AntiVirus> Branchport to Gehennom is already useless lol
18:28 <FIQ> there is no reason the rest of gehennom can do this too
18:28 <FIQ> *can't
18:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) wished for "blessed magic lamp", on T:45997
18:28 <FIQ> just because it ahppens to no longer be a seperate branch
18:28 <rld> <@luxidream> makes it a bit harder to reach castle with controlled levelport
18:28 <aosdict> and that isn't THAT far off from my eventual gehennom plans
18:28 <FIQ> *happens
18:28 <rld> <@luxidream> now you have to guess the level
18:28 <AntiVirus> but man I do wish I could branchport between sokoban and Gehennom, so if what you are proposing includes that, I'm in! lol
18:29 <FIQ> basically, atm the game has a multitude of special cases to handle the DoD-Gehennom transistions
18:29 <FIQ> and I'm just wondering... why
18:29 <FIQ> why is it even a branch
18:30 <FIQ> what is stopping the game from simply just have it all be a single branch
18:30 <AntiVirus> hmm
18:30 <AntiVirus> in Gehennom, no one can hear your prayers?
18:30 <AntiVirus> don't they go to Moloch?
18:30 <rld> <@luxidream> You used to die instantly in hell without fire resistance
18:30 <FIQ> that was literally the only reason I could think of
18:30 <FIQ> lol
18:31 <FIQ> @luxidream back then Gehennom was not a branch
18:31 <rld> <@luxidream> elbereth does not work in hell
18:31 <FIQ> huh, it doesn't?
18:31 <FIQ> oh right
18:31 <FIQ> you mean 3.6.x elbereth
18:31 <FIQ> and gehennom
18:31 <FIQ> not actual hell
18:31 <rld> <@luxidream> yes
18:31 <AntiVirus> oh, well then its a good thing that EvilHack only teaches you Elbereth right before Gehennom
18:31 <aosdict> AntiVirus: what about soko?
18:31 <AntiVirus> right
18:32 <AntiVirus> you do learn it there
18:32 <AntiVirus> and possibly earlier from a cookie or bones level
18:32 <AntiVirus> just being sarcastic
18:32 <FIQ> or from a character named Elbereth
18:32 <rld> <@luxidream> the mysterious force only occurs in gehennom
18:32 <FIQ> that died
18:32 <FIQ> the mysterious force needs to die
18:32 <FIQ> nobody will miss it
18:32 <aosdict> FIQ: he said bones level
18:32 <rld> <@luxidream> clearly some DT members like it
18:32 <FIQ> aosdict: hmm fair
18:33 <aosdict> FIQ: preaching to the choir here on mysterious force
18:33 <rld> <@luxidream> otherwise why does it exist
18:33 <FIQ> @luxidream someone (I think ais523) had a theory
18:33 <aosdict> literally every variant has removed it as it currently exists
18:33 <FIQ> on why Gehennom is the way it is
18:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) killed Croesus, on T:32388
18:33 <FIQ> despite multitude of complaints
18:33 <FIQ> it was the last thing Izchak worked on before he died
18:33 <FIQ> and DT hasn't really been the same since
18:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:3026
18:34 <aosdict> FIQ: is this one of the biggest bus factors in game development do you think
18:34 <BEHiker91W> I don't like the mysterious force.
18:34 <FIQ> aosdict: heh, possible
18:34 <FIQ> but I don't think it's a matter of people being unable to
18:34 <FIQ> but rather that they don't want to
18:34 <aosdict> all at once, the devteam's centralization is gone and still hasn't recovered
18:34 <FIQ> oh you meant my last comment
18:34 <FIQ> yeah, I suppose
18:35 <BEHiker91W> This was a very popular quote two decades ago in rec games nethack or someplace else we all used to hang: "i hope whoever invented the mysterious force gets his or her penis caught in a gear" 
18:35 <FIQ> aosdict: probably they could benefit from someone centralized that has a modicum of direction on the project
18:35 <BEHiker91W> Very modern.
18:35 <FIQ> but nobody wants to be the one that seems to try to replace Izchak
18:35 <FIQ> so you end up with whatever
18:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:39, on T:46241
18:36 <FIQ> BEHiker91W: https://nhqdb.alt.org/?top
18:37 <aosdict> FIQ: Open source projects don't even need a centralized person to act as the leader. They just need to have the willpower to all get together and make some group decisions already!
18:37 <FIQ> aosdict: yeah
18:37 <FIQ> I think ais523's current strat is basically
18:37 <FIQ> suggest something
18:37 <FIQ> wait
18:37 <FIQ> no response means "ok I will do it"
18:37 <rld> <@luxidream> someone should rock the boat a little
18:38 <aosdict> no, ais523's current strat is "I don't have time to do anything"
18:38 <FIQ> if someone complains "why didn't you say anything"
18:38 <FIQ> aosdict: his theoretical strat, then :P
18:38 <FIQ> I think he mentioned this at some point, at least
18:38 <FIQ> a while back
18:38 <BEHiker91W> When I'm just getting out from the no-teleport levels in the Wiz tower and Asmo and then the Mysterious Force returns me below the tower and I have to go through it all over again, I don't like that at all.
18:38 <FIQ> @luxidream 3.5 leak
18:39 <FIQ> ended up resulting in a group of people, both on DT; and major community members (mostly variant developers I think?) basically walking on eggshells and talking about stuff
18:39 -!- Irestine has quit [Quit: Irestine]
18:39 <FIQ> with the ultimate fate either being, what we got in the end
18:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 7877 points, T:3320, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted hill orc
18:39 <FIQ> or the devteam closing up completely
18:39 <FIQ> no pressure
18:40 <aosdict> I think I first got into nethack a very short time before that happened
18:40 <FIQ> I think it was the other way around for me
18:40 <FIQ> shortly after
18:41 <rld> <@luxidream> well current DT thinks player opinions are worthless
18:41 <aosdict> and you started variant dev'ing instantly?
18:41 <rld> <@luxidream> so we’ve regressed a little bit
18:41 <FIQ> aosdict: I did not
18:41 <aosdict> I spent a few years playing locally, then playing on NAO and hanging out on IRC
18:41 <FIQ> I played a bunch of acehack at the time
18:41 <K2> @lkuxidream not true
18:41 <aosdict> design stuff really kicked off in spring 2017
18:41 <FIQ> then I was informed that it was basically unsupported in favour of nethack4
18:42 <FIQ> so I started playing that instead
18:42 <FIQ> then I got interested in dnethack
18:42 <FIQ> played a ton of dnh
18:42 <FIQ> and occasionally nh4
18:42 <K2> @luxidream rather
18:42 <FIQ> eventually I started variant dev
18:42 <K2> you know i'm going to see you in about 2 weeks right?
18:42 <rld> <@luxidream> Yes
18:42 <aosdict> actually, given the leak was in 2015?, I must have had a year or 2 of 3.4.3 era playing
18:42 <FIQ> at some point after I discovered grunthack
18:42 <rld> <@luxidream> I remember that
18:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:30, on T:46558
18:43 <K2> we'll put to rest the is he a bot or is he just hyped up on crank and jolt cola
18:43 <aosdict> because I can remember playing in 2012 and 2013
18:43 <FIQ> aosdict: sep 2014
18:43 <rld> <@luxidream> You want me to play a game lol?
18:43 * K2 still loves grunthack
18:43 <FIQ> basically
18:43 <K2> @luxidream uh yeah :)
18:43 <FIQ> my grunthack discovery boiled down to
18:43 <K2> we're gonna livestream it like @Tone does
18:44 <rld> <@luxidream> All right I’ll bring my laptop
18:44 <FIQ> "ooh monster AI stuff and item properties"
18:44 <BEHiker91W> Antique weapons outlet is a terrible store.
18:44 <FIQ> that was more or less what made me want to start develop my own variant
18:44 <BEHiker91W> It's like a bookstore for a Valk Dwarf.
18:44 <BEHiker91W> Except it's that bad for every class.
18:44 <K2> grunthack was the inspiration for fiqhack??
18:44 <FIQ> with focus on monster AI improvement (grunthack), QoL (nethack4) and monster/player symmetry (also grunt)
18:45 <FIQ> K2: yes
18:45 <K2> bwahahah this is awesome
18:45 <rld> <@rikersan> YASI: you can have antique or non-antique weapon stores, antique ones have a 2x chance per item for it to be an artifact
18:45 <rld> <@rikersan> however, they also often have the stuff rusty/corroded/etc., just very second hand
18:45 <FIQ> I also remember giving it the name fiqhack on github because I had to give it *some* name
18:45 <FIQ> and intending to rename it later
18:46 <FIQ> I never did
18:46 <aosdict> I've caught a fair amount of flak for confusing xnethack with X11 NetHack
18:46 <rld> <@luxidream> monsterplayersymmetryhack
18:46 <rld> <@luxidream> mpshack
18:46 <FIQ> aihack
18:46 <FIQ> sounded like something that ais523 had done
18:46 <FIQ> in hindsight
18:47 <FIQ> I would probably have named it nicehack
18:47 <hothraxxa> luxidream did you fight me in the npc deathmatch?
18:47 <K2> SoldiersAreExpertsAtWandsHack
18:47 <aosdict> ahem. *skilled* at wands
18:47 <K2> :P
18:47 <FIQ> since, while personally AI is what made me start develop it
18:47 <FIQ> QoL is what made most people actually care for it
18:47 <aosdict> "k2 is a sergeant in the US army. he isn't skilled at wands"
18:47 <K2> ^ that
18:48 <FIQ> in fact sometimes I've considered taking nethack4
18:48 <FIQ> port all of FIQHack's QoL improvements
18:48 <FIQ> and call it nicehack
18:48 <K2> but i know a couple LT's who are
18:48 <FIQ> so you get all of the QoL
18:48 <hothraxxa> please
18:48 <FIQ> without the gameplay changes that some people dislike
18:48 <rld> <@luxidream> hothraxxa: no, I’ve only seen myself and jt
18:48 <hothraxxa> bah
18:49 <rld> <@luxidream> some games I haven’t bothered with arena though
18:49 <FIQ> but I don't really want to cannibalize FIQHack's players
18:49 <hothraxxa> you don't always do the deathmatch, then?
18:49 <K2> so in a weird way... fiqhack and evilhack are similar
18:49 <hothraxxa> ah
18:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:25, on T:46798
18:49 <FIQ> K2: yes, evilhack has remarkably similar design intentions at times
18:49 <FIQ> but also fundamentally different too
18:49 <K2> good
18:49 <K2> i dont want to be a carbon copy
18:50 <FIQ> I think dynahack comes closest to fiqhack's design philosophies
18:50 <K2> dynahack in unnethack 4 + grunthack
18:50 <FIQ> it has the same focus on QoL fiqhack has
18:50 <FIQ> and also takes several things from grunt
18:51 <FIQ> however it doesn't have the same focus on monster/player symmetry
18:51 <FIQ> or AI specifically grunt-wise
18:52 <K2> if someone would fix dynahack save system...
18:53 <K2> *nudge nudge*
18:53 <rld> <@luxidream> oh boy
18:53 <K2> its a fun game but sometimes it just isnt worth the headache
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18:53 <FIQ> it's probably some stupid bug
18:53 <rld> <@luxidream> that variant ate everything
18:53 <rld> <@luxidream> lmao
18:53 <FIQ> obscurely hidden somewhere
18:54 <FIQ> @luxidream didn't my restores restore all saves?
18:54 <rld> <@luxidream> It did, thanks for that
18:54 <FIQ> I actually ended up making https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:FIQ/Restoring_DynaHack_saves as a result
18:54 <K2> hah
18:55 <FIQ> @luxidream however, nobody came close to being as affected as you
18:55 <FIQ> still no idea what happened
18:55 <FIQ> there's the odd person with a crashed dynahack save
18:56 <FIQ> but not quite so far-reaching
18:56 <rld> <@luxidream> it started cannibalizing every game I opened
18:56 -!- remirol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:56 <rld> <@luxidream> they would be fine until I attempted to load them
18:56 <FIQ> did you try to load several games at once?
18:56 <FIQ> it's possible that your game did something stupid
18:56 <rld> <@luxidream> naturally not knowing this I attempted to load most of them
18:56 <FIQ> and as a result ended up in a corrupted state
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18:57 <FIQ> and would proceed to corrupt every game you tried to open
18:57 <FIQ> ais523 has seen this effect plenty on nethack 4.2, I've only seen it once with your games on dyna
18:58 <rld> <@luxidream> it continued occurring until I deleted many saves
18:58 <FIQ> I wonder how hard it would be to port dynahack gameplay to a NH4.3 base
18:58 <FIQ> either fiqhack or nethack4
19:04 <K2> dont tease FIQ
19:04 <K2> DO IT
19:04 <K2> probably fiqhack since you have some features already present (obj properties comes to mind)
19:07 <K2> i would play the shit out of new dynahack
19:08 <aosdict> that's basically porting all those unnethack features into nh4 yes
19:09 <K2> well unnethack 4 from dynahack, but i'd say take it to the next level and base that part off of current unnethack
19:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:47519
19:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on the Plane of Earth, on T:47519
19:11 <K2> oh nice
19:11 <K2> go Ardub
19:11 <K2> shame they dont hop on irc
19:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on the Plane of Earth, on T:47568
19:13 <FIQ> figuring out what is wrong with dynahack saves is something I've tried to do sometimes
19:13 <FIQ> it's easy in theory
19:14 <FIQ> step 1 is find a way to reproduce it
19:14 <FIQ> this is the easy part
19:14 <FIQ> step 2, figure out what place in the code things fuck up
19:14 <FIQ> this is the hard part because it's clearly nothing wrong with the game itself
19:14 <FIQ> just something goes wrong when saving
19:15 <FIQ> it's also a huge PITA to reproduce, not because finding a reproduction itself is hard
19:15 <FIQ> but the process itself
19:15 <FIQ> because unlike NH4.3
19:15 <FIQ> there is no way to engage replaymode before a game is finished
19:16 <FIQ> so to reproduce
19:16 <FIQ> I basically have to spam save
19:16 <rld> <@rikersan> ah nice found dragonspeaker's arc bones
19:16 <FIQ> and constantly moving it to the "finished games" list
19:16 <FIQ> trying to play until replaymode fucks up
19:16 <FIQ> this is the part where the game corrupts the save
19:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Hdr-Pri Dro Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3808
19:20 <{Demo}> turbo nethack nooooooo tournament in... 3?? days
19:24 <aosdict> K2: ardub's fairly active on the wiki
19:24 <K2> i know
19:24 <K2> thats why I said its a shame they dont come here
19:25 <stenno> would be evil if the devteam released 3.6.3 on nov 1st
19:25 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:26 <K2> hah
19:26 <rld> <@Umby> Hi again.
19:27 <FIQ> @luxidream those dynahack games
19:27 <FIQ> how often did you save?
19:27 <FIQ> there is a currently known bug where the game, upon a recent load, will make a bizarre diff
19:27 <FIQ> starting from null data
19:27 <FIQ> I'm starting to wonder if this is related
19:28 <FIQ> because so far I'm unable to reproduce a load error if I don't save spam
19:28 <FIQ> might be just luck though
19:30 <K2> a bazillion times
19:32 -!- Cevn has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
19:32 <FIQ> uhh
19:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:47799
19:33 <FIQ> nvm it was introduced in 4.3, no wonder it isn't here
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19:36 <FIQ> yeah I think it might actually be the null diffs that are ruining everything
19:36 <FIQ> with constant saving I get errors after like 100 turns
19:36 <FIQ> but I haven't saved+loaded this game once
19:36 <FIQ> no errors so far at minetown
19:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Hdr-Pri Dro Mal Neu) was given the Cloak of the Unheld One, on T:5228
19:37 <rld> <@rikersan> wow, vhaerun does make a compelling argument for not going traitor
19:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:47815
19:38 <FIQ> errors do occur if I try replay backwards, but that's just replaymode being dumb
19:38 <FIQ> doesn't affect actual save loading
19:41 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:47855
19:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 2410048 points, T:47864, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Ardub/xnethack/dumplog/1571938038.xnh.html
19:56 <AntiGulp> It’s been half a mortal age, but I finally have a terminal color scheme that I like and also has enough contrast to play nethack with.
19:57 <AntiGulp> Wait no the purple isn’t purple enough aaagh
20:02 <K2> AntiGulp!
20:02 <K2> I sent 5 million usd to your somalian bank account and you promised evilhack tileset
20:02 <K2> i feel like i have been scammed
20:03 <K2> should I send more?
20:03 <AntiGulp> Yes, absolutely. I bill on an hourly rate, after all.
20:03 <K2> :P
20:03 <rld> <@Umby> and bohsplosion.
20:03 <rld> <@Umby> so much for that.
20:04 <AntiGulp> How’s the tileset coming?
20:04 <rld> <@Umby> w/e next run
20:04 <AntiGulp> Oh no Umby!!! I’m so sorry.
20:04 <rld> <@Umby> I'll live, hopefully I don't botch another touch input like that
20:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:7021
20:07 <rld> <@Umby> This time I started next to an arrow trap.
20:07 <rld> <@Umby> Upsides.
20:07 <rld> <@Umby> Small victories.
20:09 <rld> <@Umby> How's your runs AntiGulp?
20:10 <AntiGulp> I lost my streak, so I’m taking some time off. Waiting till TNNT!
20:11 <rld> <@Umby> Joy.
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20:11 <aosdict> AntiGulp: how's your perl?
20:11 <rld> <@Umby> Hi aos
20:11 * AntiGulp asserts her dominance in Regex
20:12 <rld> <@Umby> Oh yeah, I think some Mordorcs stepped deliberately onto a polytrap in that run I just gutted
20:12 <rld> <@Umby> Albeit while I wasn't directly present
20:12 <rld> <Umby> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/638892985857212424/Capture_2019-10-29-09-25-36.png
20:12 <aosdict> Not regex, perl coding
20:12 <rld> <@Umby> Magicbane'd one and it gave me this
20:13 <aosdict> we're trying to add a last minute trophy to TNNT
20:13 <rld> <@Umby> I mean I more or less knew it'd happened but thought it was.worth mentioning
20:13 <AntiGulp> aosdict: My perl is pretty rough, but I can code in it.
20:14 <{Demo}> if someone told me to write perl id laugh at them
20:15 <K2> collaborate, go
20:15 <K2> {Demo}, hush
20:15 <{Demo}> like a, me... perl.... LOL nice one no im not perlable
20:15 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20:16 <AntiGulp> {Demo}: Not only is everything is perlable, given enough time, but everyone is perlable a million different ways.
20:16 <AntiGulp> (subtle dig at perl’s formatting because WHY)
20:16 <{Demo}> every oyster has a pearl
20:17 <{Demo}> every sea urchi nis a pretzel
20:17 <{Demo}> every champion of the ocean is a whale-shark
20:19 <{Demo}> can i write nethack false rumors yet?
20:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] ichbinmiah (Val Hum Fem Neu), 745 points, T:717, killed by a gnome
20:27 <rld> <@Umby> Huh
20:27 <rld> <@Umby> Slime polymorph that isn't a game over
20:29 <AntiGulp> YASI: Spam demon.
20:29 <AntiGulp> It throws scrolls of mail at the player.
20:29 <{Demo}> LOL
20:30 <rld> <@Umby> Wrapped around loadstones
20:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1063
20:34 <FIQ> ok so I figured out why dynahack creates messed up diffs
20:34 <FIQ> simple problem
20:34 <FIQ> but I've yet to be able to fix it properly
20:35 <FIQ> there is also a major caveat here
20:35 <FIQ> fixing this
20:35 <FIQ> invalidates a major work-around for broken dynahack saves
20:36 <{Demo}> whoa
20:39 <rld> <@luxidream> what’s next? mlm succubi?
20:40 <rld> <@luxidream> FIQ: I did not save often when playing, but I saved and reloaded them frequently to make sure they continued working and were in the correct order
20:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 17102 points, T:6440, killed by a troll mummy
20:42 <AntiGulp> luxidream: The succubus whispers in your ear. “Did you know that the dungeon is shaped like a pyramid?”
20:44 <FIQ> isn't splice the variant which personalizes foocubi
20:44 <AntiGulp> FIQ: Yep. Other variants improved on it, but it was originally from Splice.
20:44 <rld> <@luxidream> carries potions of oil
20:45 <AntiGulp> lol
20:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:8657
20:45 <rld> <@luxidream> can be bribed to become peaceful, but a percentage of the zorkmids you pick up are teleported into its inventory
20:45 <aosdict> how does it personalize foocubi
20:45 <aosdict> other than them introducing and naming themselves
20:46 <rld> <@IceBox> and periodically your inventory becomes full of supplements and makeup products
20:46 <AntiGulp> aosdict: I think that’s it.
20:46 <rld> <@IceBox> I'd love to see an IceBoxcubi in the game
20:46 <AntiGulp> ooh, I need to steal xnh’s names
20:47 <rld> <@Ogomt> AntiGulp: I think there's a missing "else" for the Magician card in deck of fate, so when you draw it you get two messages
20:47 <rld> <@Umby> Companion YASI: cursed scrolls of mail that give a false rumor and cause 2-4 more to appear in the inventory, cannot be dropped while cursed a la loadstone
20:48 <AntiGulp> @Ogomt Right you are! Fixed as of… now.
20:48 <rld> <@luxidream> Reminds me of the boh zip bomb Dudley strip
20:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:10037
20:50 <rld> <@Umby> innocuous regular scroll of mail with a cursed BOH as "attachments"
20:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:10063
20:50 <AntiGulp> Trojan Horses...
20:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Werebane bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:9565
20:51 <rld> <@Umby> Trojan horses as actual monsters that resemble other u but cast a summoning spell on death
20:51 <rld> <@Umby> Trojan warhorse that summons nasties upon dying
20:52 <aosdict> AntiGulp: yeah you're still using random human names aren't you?
20:52 <AntiGulp> aosdict: Yeah. It’s funny, but breaks immersion.
20:53 <aosdict> let's see, I've got references to... myth, Christian apocrypha, the Oz books, Wheel of Time, ASOIAF, Discworld, SLEX, and American Gods
20:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:9841
20:53 <aosdict> oh and harry potter
20:53 <aosdict> figuring out what refers to what is left as an exercise for the reader
20:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:9950
20:55 <rld> <@Umby> I mean we already have the Marauder's Map so
20:55 <rld> <@luxidream> dnh
20:56 <rld> <@Umby> The series may not have aged well esp. vis a vis author's attempts to maintain air of relevance via ad hoc political commentary while simultaneously being criminally incompetent at such
20:56 <rld> <@Umby> but it still has some good ideas
20:56 <aosdict> @Umby I'm just talking about the lists of names monsters will introduce themselves as
20:57 <FIQ> I added darth vader and lord voldemort as hallumons somewhat recently
20:57 <FIQ> that's as far as my references usually go
20:57 <rld> <@Umby> that's fine
20:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:10306
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20:58 <rld> <@Umby> I know there's a list of hallumons that became actual things in notable variants somewhere...
20:59 <rld> <@Umby> I'll check later, though
20:59 <rld> <@Umby> For now I should get a quick beverage
21:01 <AntiGulp> !tell K2 SpliceHack 0.7.0 ready.
21:01 <Beholder> No worries, AntiGulp, I've got this!
21:01 <{Demo}> what ever happend to slicehack?
21:02 <{Demo}> was that guy ever tracked down?
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21:02 <ichbinmiah> SMUG!
21:02 <AntiGulp> {Demon}: He’s been playing since 1996. That’s all I’ve been able to find. I’m giving it a grace period before I start stealing more stuff from it, because wow Slice is NICE.
21:02 <Smugzug> EEK!
21:02 <rld> <@luxidream> You read: “Voldemort, killed by a death ray”
21:05 <AntiGulp> Oh hey my computer autocorrects “Demo” to "Demon"
21:05 * Andrio calls an exorcist.
21:06 <rld> <@luxidream> Well it is short for demogorgon
21:06 <Andrio> It's also a word.
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21:07 <aosdict> I liked the dudley comics that riffed on demogorgon's name
21:08 <rld> <@luxidream> flesh to cheese one is my favorite
21:09 <Smugzug> Miah... you're a rotten scoundrel
21:10 <rld> <@Umby> What's this about a slicehack?
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21:11 <aosdict> splice variant that no one knew about until someone stumbled across its github
21:12 <rld> <@Umby> Neat.
21:12 <AntiGulp> @Umby someone made a variant of SpliceHack, called SliceHack. He fixed a ton of extremely obscure bugs, implemented a ton of really awesome stuff, and then vanished off the face of the planet, all without telling anyone (including me) what he was doing.
21:12 <aosdict> had some pretty cool stuff
21:12 <aosdict> the last few commits in the repository were like "tear down nethack I want a different game" though
21:12 <AntiGulp> He dropped into my issues and solved an obscure reference bug I had been banging my head against the wall with for two weeks. That’s the only time I’ve gotten to talk to him.
21:12 <AntiGulp> aosdict: Yeah
21:13 <rld> <@Umby> Huh.
21:14 <ichbinmiah> smug: :D
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21:25 <FIQ> stopping the game from actually creating a save when saving and forcing the game to use crash behaviour seems to make dynahack consistently load the game
21:25 <AntiGulp> …that’s scary
21:26 <FIQ> without introducing subtle differences in the gamestate that ultimately cause saves to go rip
21:28 <FIQ> so unless I'm misreading the situation
21:29 <FIQ> @luxidream it seems that you don't want to save games in DynaHack as much as possible to avoid problems -- you want to save as *little* as possible
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21:30 <rld> <@luxidream> that’s a little counterintuitive :p
21:30 <FIQ> I'll do nitrohack-style experimenting later and see if not allowing the game to create its binary saves ultimately results in a 100% problem-free game
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21:31 <FIQ> and then there's the matter of the broken startup diffs
21:31 <FIQ> I also disabled a diff-loading optimization in case it was causing problems as well
21:31 <FIQ> both of these might also help alleviate problems, not sure if all 3 changes are needed
21:32 <FIQ> to make DynaHack saves safe
21:32 <FIQ> and I also need to test longer games in case it messes up later on
21:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 14478 points, T:10343, killed by a giant zombie
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21:38 <K2> AntiGulp wow ok!
21:38 <Beholder> K2: Message from AntiGulp at 2019-10-29 21:01 EDT: SpliceHack 0.7.0 ready.
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21:38 <AntiGulp> :)
21:42 <K2> :P
21:44 <rld> <@luxidream> so the ascension run demon horde made it in wholesale?
21:44 <rld> <@luxidream> yep, think I won't be touching that with a ten foot pole
21:45 <rld> <@luxidream> someone else want to try it? 😛
21:45 <K2> pussy
21:45 * K2 gasps
21:45 <K2> did I say that out loud??
21:46 <rld> <@luxidream> well, you're welcome to kill literally every demon in the game
21:46 <aosdict> f
21:47 <Andrio> Even the two different quest bosses who are demons?
21:47 <rld> <@luxidream> if you visit their levels, maybe
21:47 <K2> @luxidream i hold the title for most grunthack asc - been there/done that
21:48 <rld> <@luxidream> K2: this is literally every demon in the game lol
21:48 <K2> yup
21:48 <K2> and? :)
21:48 <rld> <@luxidream> did you have fun?
21:48 <K2> fuck yeah
21:48 <K2> you know it
21:48 <rld> <@luxidream> great
21:48 <rld> <@luxidream> good for you
21:48 <K2> \o/
21:48 <K2> DIRGE
21:49 <aosdict> yeah but in splice I can't have a grunt asc kit
21:49 <K2> nor should anyone
21:49 <K2> grunt gear is way OP
21:49 <AntiGulp> oh wait, I didn’t nerf the demon horde
21:49 <AntiGulp> hmmmm
21:49 <K2> bwahahah
21:49 <K2> *dont*
21:49 <aosdict> no +7 dragonhide cloak of magic resistance and deflection with my +9 darts of detonation and my excalibur twoweaponed with my silver thirsty katana
21:49 <{Demo}> i want a comr of detonation
21:50 <{Demo}> when things hit me BOOM
21:50 <aosdict> K2's advice should be taken with a large, evil grain of salt
21:51 <K2> haha
21:51 <{Demo}> i want a k2 of detonation
21:51 <aosdict> AntiGulp: have you added salt golems yet?
21:51 <K2> i had to forcibily refrain from saying something extremely inapropriate
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21:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon her by Shan Lai Ching, on T:16239
21:52 <AntiGulp> luxidream: Disabled the demonic horde for now. Happy?
21:52 <AntiGulp> aosdict: I really should...
21:52 <K2> awww
21:52 <aosdict> actually I can't think of anything distinctive for salt golems so never mind
21:52 <K2> you caved!
21:52 <rld> <@luxidream> yaaay
21:52 <AntiGulp> aosdict: They dissolve in water.
21:52 <aosdict> maybe that's what happens if your god turns you into a pillar of salt
21:52 <aosdict> (this happened in the bible iirc)
21:53 <{Demo}> salt the fields
21:53 <rld> <@luxidream> YASI: when the player quits, they still leave bones, but there's a salt golem instead of a ghost
21:53 <rld> <@Umby> Lot's wife.
21:53 <AntiGulp> K2: On the one hand, yes. On the other, it’s disgusting as currently implemented.
21:53 <K2> :P
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21:55 <rld> <@luxidream> I mean, don't you love holding down buttons?
21:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon her by Shan Lai Ching, on T:16752
21:57 <K2> ok sleepy time. gnite all
21:58 <rld> <@luxidream> night K2
21:58 <AntiGulp> Night!
21:59 <rld> <@luxidream> rip no spl update today
22:00 <rld> <@luxidream> I'll try new cartomancer tomorrow
22:00 <rld> <@luxidream> or when K2 decides to update
22:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a housecat, on T:17576
22:02 <AntiGulp> luxidream: I look forward to the “Beholder has forwarded 15 messages from Luxidream to you privately.”
22:03 <FIQ> aosdict: I played a fiqhack game earlier
22:03 <FIQ> sudden death by a kobold equipped with darts of detonation
22:03 <FIQ> arguably a YAAD
22:05 <rld> <@Umby> oh neat, magic marker in a trap "bones"
22:05 <FIQ> cursed marker
22:05 <FIQ> write tele
22:06 <rld> <@luxidream> it's funny that the corpses on the fake bones are fresh
22:06 <rld> <@luxidream> sometimes I eat them
22:06 <aosdict> if they weren't fresh they'd disappear before you got a chance to see them
22:07 <rld> <@luxidream> this is true
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22:08 <rld> <@Umby> they're somewhat fresh if you first enter the level close to them
22:08 <rld> <@Umby> bonus points if you find a safe-to-eat elf corpse
22:09 <aosdict> let's have skeleton objects already. a corpse can rot into that and spend thousands of turns before finally vanishing
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22:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) polymorphed her first item, on T:18521
22:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon her by Shan Lai Ching, on T:18593
22:17 <rld> <@Umby> not even thousands, it's usuall a few hundred tops
22:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Ran Orc Fem Cha) had Grimtooth bestowed upon her by Mars, on T:4747
22:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Ran Orc Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:6397
22:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Mon Hum Fem Law) was crowned "The Hand of Elbereth" by Shan Lai Ching, on T:19287
22:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Ran Orc Fem Cha) had Fire Brand bestowed upon her by Mars, on T:8467
22:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh13d] ThrashCardiom (Wiz Mal), 54 points, T:19, invisible imp
22:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) genocided class V, on T:45695
22:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1192 points, T:2076, killed by reverting to unhealthy doppelganger form
22:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:53672
22:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:53674
22:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 robe", on T:43488
22:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed figurine of a ki-rin", on T:43491
22:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Neu) genocided green slime, on T:53818
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22:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 2865 points, T:1151, killed by a gnome
22:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) polymorphed his first object, on T:43603
23:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:3136
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23:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed figurine of a ki-rin", on T:43707
23:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed figurine of a ki-rin", on T:43711
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23:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) entered Gehennom, on T:44486
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23:50 <shadowcat> evening all...just here for a bit while my computer reinstalls its software (I'm on another computer, obviously).