00:00 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 264 points, T:522, killed by a large mimic 00:00 also mumak a few steps away because Of Course 00:01 Ranger with expert-dagger sacrifice!MBane and sacrifice!Vorpal Blade make this a nonissue 00:05 what'd really be nice is one of a BoH/tinning kit/spellbook of ID 00:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:54684 00:07 -!- Eloc has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:08 -!- Eloc has joined #hardfought 00:08 [hdf-us] [xnh] arnibald (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2747 points, T:2115, killed by a werewolf, while fainted from lack of food 00:09 oh neat 00:10 quest on the floor below big room 00:10 already have SDSM 00:12 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 00:22 -!- Eloc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23 found a vanilla bug 00:23 "The titan swings her silver saber at the pit fiend. The titan hits the pit fiend. The pit fiend hits the titan." 00:23 ^ see anything missing? 00:25 Not immediately no 00:25 <@ScienceBall> "The silver saber sears the pit fiend's flesh"? 00:25 OH 00:25 Right. 00:26 Actually kinda brain dead tonight, so. 00:28 aosdict, that the only instance of it so far? 00:29 -!- moony has joined #hardfought 00:29 I discovered it via coding obj materials patch stuff 00:29 then noticed I hadn't done the mhitm case, because there was nothing in mhitm.c to base off of 00:30 Ah 00:31 yay, 2nd amulet of life saving 00:31 -!- BEHiker92W has joined #hardfought 00:33 -!- BEHiker91W has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33 -!- merleke has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 00:52 -!- attie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53 there is a minotaur 00:53 in the quest area 00:53 why is there a minotaur 00:53 in the quest area 00:55 Which quest srea? 00:56 Is it a quest that generates random H? 00:56 the maze of trees in the ranger home floor 00:57 It could also be a chameleon. 00:58 no, it's been pretty minotaury for several turns now 00:58 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:58 now it's dead, thank fuck 00:59 shot at it with impunity but knowing it was there at all 00:59 god 01:04 Nice 01:06 NOPE 01:06 no you don't 01:06 eat a fat one cockatrice 01:06 thought you'd get me 01:07 speed reapplied, now back to DL3 altar 01:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non), 2363 points, T:2284, killed by a giant bat 01:11 damnit, forgot there was a gray uni nearby 01:11 at least eating it finally gave me that poison res 01:12 and it only took 23.5K turns 01:12 :D 01:12 mm 01:12 I'd probably reverse genocide them by that point. 01:13 you've ascended multiple times 01:13 pls 01:13 mm 01:13 <@rikersan> kick sinks next time? 01:13 I'll kick *your* sinks 01:13 <@rikersan> that's like a 1/15 of pois resistance per pudding 01:13 @v?black pudding 01:13 black pudding (P) | Lvl: 10 | Diff: 12 | Spd: 6 | Res: cold shock poison acid petrification | Confers: cold shock poison | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 6 | Attacks: 3d8 bite corrosion, 0d0 passive corrosion | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, amorphous, breathless, mindless 01:14 <@rikersan> not much at all but it's probably worth it 01:14 They're not poisonous? 01:14 <@rikersan> wiki says 7%, and I know I've gotten it in dnh from that 01:14 they give a lot of resistances 01:14 <@rikersan> don't think so? 01:14 I always get shock first though 01:14 acidic, not poisonous 01:14 <@rikersan> dnh they're acidic not sure if that's va -- yea 01:14 <@rikersan> so yeah I mean shock isn't bad either, but just keep going 01:14 wasn't too inclined to since most of my offense is metallic arrows and such 01:15 <@rikersan> ditch metal armor and start punching :) 01:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1278 01:18 Hi Frost Brand! 01:21 MBane, Frostbrand and Vorpal 01:21 choice sacs tbh 01:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 4100 points, T:2080, killed by a water moccasin 01:28 mm, need to get a BoH 01:42 [hdf-us] [evil] dragonspeaker (Wiz Gia Fem Cha), 254 points, T:1063, zombified by a gnome zombie 01:45 oop 01:45 climbing back up after falling down a hole 01:45 found a vampire and someone he turned on Rogue floor 01:45 ooh, vamps aren't frost prrof 01:45 proof* 01:45 this is free 01:46 they have a death wand too 01:47 blessed bag of holding 01:47 my wishes have been answered! 01:48 got "Interesting..." when I tried to bless the vamp's bad 01:48 bag* 01:49 Interesting... 01:52 serial hoarder, looks like 01:52 more than a few cursed books 01:52 probably got got while pilfering other bones 01:58 [hdf-us] [evil] dragonspeaker (Kni Elf Mal Cha), 577 points, T:2315, killed by an ancient pseudodragon 02:06 off I go for now, will update on any developments 02:07 night! 02:07 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Pri Clk Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3988 02:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Pri Clk Mal Neu), 3165 points, T:4013, killed by a soldier ant 03:05 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 03:06 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:51 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 04:03 You hear a door open. Suddenly one of the Vault's guards enters! 04:04 not through that door though 04:29 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 04:53 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:54 -!- b_jonas has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 04:58 tnnt starts midnight UTC? 05:01 midnight UTC on the first of november yes 05:02 https://www.hardfought.org/tnnt/index.html <- see the exact number of days, hours, minutes and seconds here 05:04 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:17 How can I see my score (during a game)? 05:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] mmj (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 635 points, T:1020, fell into a pit 05:19 showscore 05:19 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Options#showscore 05:19 I press O and the list goes safe_pet, showexp, showrace, silent. 05:20 No showscore. 05:20 "Only available if NetHack was compiled with SCORE_ON_BOTL." 05:21 So Hardfought just doesn't allow any information about scores until death? 05:23 Tested and confirmed that OPTIONS=showscore in the rc file doesn't work either. 05:43 thanks 05:44 oh lol thats a bit of a fauxpas 05:44 interesting that its a compile-time opt-in, was it that way in 3.4.3 too? 05:44 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1094 points, T:2413, killed by a soldier ant 05:52 yes 05:55 TIL 05:58 Elbereth was a compile-time option in 3.4.3 06:14 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:18 -!- BEHiker92W is now known as BEHiker91W 06:20 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 06:20 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 06:21 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 06:29 aosdict: IIRC there's 4 or 5 randomized appearances in slex that let the player walk on snow 06:29 LarienTelrunya: Message from AntiGulp at 2019-10-27 23:52 EDT: The changed menu just adds a colon and checks a flag, in order to be in line with the #enhance menu. It looks nicer. At present, Splice does not notify the player when a tech is ready. 06:29 Andrio, but opt-out? 06:29 !tell AntiGulp IMHO the colon makes it look ugly :P and what about the flag it is checking? what does that do? I'd still like to see a screenshot 06:29 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 06:30 Yeah. 06:33 !tell jonadab your EPI page is down :( 06:33 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 06:34 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought 07:01 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 07:06 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:10 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 176 points, T:154, killed by a hobbit 07:10 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 4 points, T:14, killed by a rabbit 07:13 -!- Yratt has joined #hardfought 07:14 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 220 points, T:612, killed by a bat 07:15 clan 'The procrastinators. maybe tomorrow' will be glorious 07:16 we may or may not be playing that tourney 07:16 and may or may not be winning 07:17 i'm so in. maybe tomorrow. 07:17 ok i will probably send you an invitation 07:17 if i don't have other things to do 07:18 (seriously, if you like, i can invite you. no obligation to play or anything) 07:18 paxed 07:18 heh 07:19 stennowork you're doing your own clan? neat 07:19 -!- merleke has joined #hardfought 07:19 yes, low effort 07:19 https://www.hardfought.org/tnnt/clans/10.html 07:19 K2, i see you crave my attention. you may proceed. 07:20 no players named 'paxed' 07:21 paxed I just wanted to say... errr 07:21 i dunno 07:21 stennowork: yeah, i'll register soon 07:21 o7 07:23 you make me sad 07:24 * stennowork does the dr. evil finger thing 07:24 we ask you earlier and i know you said 'oh is k2 on that team? no thanks' 07:24 K2: you should try one of those light therapy lamps ... 07:24 those taste horrible 07:26 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 07:28 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1661 points, T:2012, killed by a hill orc 07:29 -!- ais523_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought 07:31 Adeon would also be a candidate for 'team procrastination' 07:32 i think he's an excellect nethack player procrastinator 07:32 I go a bit further than procrastinating, nowadays I expect not to play in tournaments 07:33 rather than planning to and never getting round to it 07:34 ais523_: my team needs some dead weight because otherwise I'm not even going to reach the team limit, would you like to join my clan and never play? :) 07:35 that'd mean actually getting my hardfought account fixed :-D 07:37 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1082 points, T:1558, killed by a dung worm 07:37 stenno low key stealing clan TNNT's thunder, we're already the team where no one knows how much they can contribute 07:38 but clan procrastination doesn't have an attitute 07:38 attitude 07:52 -!- stennowork has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: lunch] 08:02 <{Demo}> ais how'd u break ur hdf acc? 08:07 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 4901 points, T:3425, killed by a wolf 08:09 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 135 points, T:355, killed by a bat 08:11 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 08:13 -!- bezaban has joined #hardfought 08:13 nice hostname bezaban 08:14 Any clan for the tournament need another n00b? I can spell 'Elbereth' and know which end of /oD not to point at self. 08:14 it's great for all my best-effort hobbyist stuff. Sets the expectation right off the bat ;) 08:14 merleke: you can join mine if you want :) what's your username? 08:15 o7 08:16 LarienTelrunya : merlek (no e at the end) :) 08:16 alright, invitation sent! 08:16 cheers 08:17 -!- anxiety305 has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 08:39 * K2 smacks paxed around a bit with a large trout 08:41 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 13054 points, T:11690, killed by a rope golem 08:50 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought 08:53 typo3.org goes full dgamelaunch: 08:53 Dear TYPO3.org user, 08:53 a potential vulnerability was discovered in password authentication with our LDAP storage. 08:53 Only a reduced character length of the user password was used for login. 08:54 did it also store the first two characters of the password in plaintext? 08:54 if not, it's not full dgamelaunch 08:54 haha 08:54 that again reminds me of WEP 08:55 WEP sent so much info that you could reduce entropy to like a few byte lmao 08:55 with parts of the cipher in cleartext 08:55 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55 crypt(3) has a surprisingly easily misused API 08:56 istr that in dgl, you would do something like crypt(password, password) 08:56 right 08:56 one of those arguments is the salt, which is stored in plaintext 08:56 yeah 08:56 brilliant 08:57 but fortunately, crypt's salts are limited to two bytes unless they use a special expanded form, so only two bytes of the password got stored 08:57 should get updated to bcrypt/scrypt 08:57 well what luck 08:57 (if anyone had a password starting $1$ or the like then the full thing would have been stored, but that's a rare form for passwords to use) 08:58 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1648 points, T:2672, killed by a hill orc 08:59 -!- bebing has joined #hardfought 09:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Arc Clk Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1184 09:06 -!- Yratt has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:07 my password starts with a letter of the alphabet :-) 09:09 gasp! the entropy of your password just decreased by so much! 09:14 -!- bubbles_nhww has joined #hardfought 09:19 lul 09:20 -!- ais523_ has left #hardfought 09:20 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought 09:27 ais523_ do you require a password reset for your dgl account on hardfought? 09:27 last time you asked me this I decided it wasn't worth bothering until I actually needed the account 09:27 right 09:27 hence me asking again :) 09:28 also, I'm at work atm, and ais523_ is my insecure account for when I don't control the computer 09:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo3 (Arc Clk Fem Neu), 9696 points, T:4896, killed by a couatl of Quetzalcoatl, while praying 09:28 if you reset my password on ais523_'s request I'd be annoyed ;-) 09:28 well that wouldnt work anyways 09:28 i ask users to private message or email me the email account assosicated with the account 09:28 ah, OK 09:29 2fa 09:29 :P 09:29 it's not like the associated email isn't guessable, though, so you'd have to actually send an email to it to verify 09:29 which I wouldn't be able to read right now, due to being at work 09:29 so, when you have time, send an email to admin@hardfought.org with the account and the email tied to it that you need a password reset for 09:30 dhmm 09:30 *hmm 09:31 playing through ADOM's air temple 09:31 or, if you're truly going to be a part of the procrastination clan, you dont need a password reset at all :) 09:31 dhmm is chris's version of hmm 09:31 reminded me why I wasn't nearly as concerned about item destruction in my variant than 99% of people seem to be 09:31 ADOM's item destruction is much, much worse 09:32 the existence of item destruction probably has negative strategic consequences, but I think they're fairly minor 09:32 hahahah 'order of the chickatrice' 09:32 (in particular, it encourages heavy stashing and gathering redundant copies of important items) 09:32 there are ways to mitigate it 09:32 doesn't fiqhack let you protect items from destruction with a matching resistance extrinsic? 09:32 for example, fireproof blankets makes things immune to fire unless the blanket itself gets burned 09:32 oh, you mean in ADOM 09:33 but there is nothing that protects against lightning item destruction 09:33 besides resistances (which never made much sense to me tbh), and even then it only reduces it 09:33 so you just have to pray that nothing you care for gets destroyed 09:33 or stash stuff 09:33 ais523_: and yes, in FIQHack, extrinsic elemental immunities will protect your items from item destruction 09:33 I think ADOM is fairly stash-friendly, isn't it? 09:34 monsters will happily pickup your stuff 09:34 but they don't actually use it 09:34 except for a few monsters 09:34 (rare lategame ones) 09:34 lol bubbles_nhww 09:34 does stashing next to the stairs just before leaving a level work? 09:34 yes 09:34 in fact that is what I did in preparation for air temple 09:35 for my most valuable items 09:35 still lost some stuff I'd rather not have lost 09:35 but meh 09:35 actually, it's a little bothersome that that form of stashing works in most roguelikes 09:35 it feels like an exploit of "time doesn't pass while you aren't on the level" 09:35 there's little you cacn do as a developer against it 09:35 stashing is a thing done in other roguelikes too? 09:35 especially because many players like ridiculous oversecurity of their stashes 09:35 unless you want to make the whole dungeon "alive" 09:35 *can 09:36 in diablo you have a certain zone where no monsters will ever spawn and thats your stash 09:36 stennowork: any roguelike that lets you backtrack and has limited inventory, players are likely to try to stash 09:36 and then you have a 'town portal' which teleports you to that specific position (and leaves a portal open to go back again) 09:36 side topic: is it within character for a dwarf to go into a berserker rage? (not the player, but monster) 09:36 I've even done it to some extent in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, which doesn't let you backtrack 09:36 K2, hell yeah, check out slayers from games workshop 09:37 ais523_: btw I was considering how useful it would be in a multiplayer scenario to have a seamless "simple AI" toggle in it 09:37 K2: I think berserker raging is more related to class than race, I can imagine a dwarf berserker but don't think all dwarves would 09:37 maybe it should be a separate monster 09:37 so during downtime (when not much is happening) you can have a single player explore a level 09:37 K2, https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Slayers 09:37 with the others following 09:37 FIQ: is this assuming that the players are in the same turn order? 09:37 and use dcss-style tab-fighting 09:37 in AI mode 09:37 yes 09:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:963 09:37 ais523_ for evilhack I pulled over the M3_BERSERK flag from sporkhack, it allows monsters to do extra damage. in sporkhack it was extra damage all the time, for evilhack I adjusted it so its only sometimes 09:37 I think the main lesson from deucehack was that putting the players in a single turn order will be very unpopular no matter how hard you try to mitigate it 09:38 mhm 09:38 K2: you need messages, at least 09:38 I wanted to try it 09:38 I think I will try it 09:38 I like the berserk mechanic in Battle for Wesnoth 09:38 there are 09:38 if it doesn't work, something else will need to be figured out 09:38 it lets you attack in zero time, but once you start attacking something you can't stop, and the thing you're attacking gets a counterattack every time you attack it 09:39 was debating adding it to dwarves, but now i think i will 09:39 please make a slayer, that would be epic 09:39 it is very powerful, but possible to balance around 09:39 and you can even do type-slayers 09:39 K2: but you also buffed the damage 09:39 like dragonslayer, trollslayer.. 09:39 I prefer more consistent damage output 09:39 it perhaps doesn't make so much flavour sense though (the counterattack is, of course, necessary for balancing, and yet it's hard to see how a berserker would manage to let its foe act that quickly) 09:39 this is one of DCSS' most annoying traits 09:39 FIQ yeah 09:39 stennowork: we have bane artifacts already 09:39 its wildly inconsistent damage output 09:40 but i think random berserk damage is better than all the time 09:40 FIQ: that's one of the things that make DCSS much less friendly to new players than its proponents claim 09:40 FIQ thats the POINT 09:40 ais523_, yes, but there are no bane monsters 09:40 it's impossible to get much of an idea of how dangerous a monster is 09:40 K2: what you've done is essentially implementing a critical hit mechanic 09:40 nobody likes those 09:40 in roguelikes 09:40 IME 09:40 stennowork: do you expect these to be used as pet/polyform vs. hostile monster, or hostile monster vs. polymorphed player? 09:40 yup 09:40 well, aside from dcss players 09:40 I guess 09:41 ais523_, the second: hostile monsters 09:41 but can be tamed as a pet i guess 09:41 ? 09:41 its safe to say no one likes taking damage from monsters in general 09:41 and they are also good again other monsters 09:41 FIQ: I can see a potential advantage in making combat less predictable, which increases the chance that careful players will have to use escape items 09:41 so,.... 09:41 -!- attie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:41 they are just exceptional against their specific type 09:41 it should be impossible to kill something with a crit unless the attack would have killed anyway, though 09:42 I think ADOM does that, unless you're "doomed" (trinsic) 09:42 leaves you at 1HP if a crit would have killed 09:42 FIQ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV5qPU7hdx8 09:42 stennowork: well, it's unlikely that a monster having bonus damage against a particular other type of monster would matter, because monsters rarely attack things other than the player 09:43 'you never know what you're gonna get' 09:43 unless you have bonus damage against player races, I guess 09:43 "dwarf elfslayer" seems plausible 09:43 (but would need a better name) 09:43 dwarven? 09:43 dragonslayer, demonslayer 09:43 how often is the player a dragon or demon, though? 09:43 there are a lot of dragon and dragon-types and also a lot of demon-types 09:43 stennowork: that sounds like an artifact 09:43 but its the GW slayers :v 09:43 read the background from the link 09:43 they are cool 09:44 [hdf-us] [slex] porkman (Pri Red Mal Neu), 57114 points, T:10768, killed by a monster (pupurin of Moloch) 09:44 * K2 is reading up on slayers 09:44 ais523_: I buffed some quest artifacts 09:44 Do you think I overdid it? 09:44 FIQ watch the video 09:44 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/FIQHack#Changes_applicable_to_junethack_2020 09:44 it perfectly explains M3_BERSERK in evilhack 09:45 can't/shouldn't check right now, I'm at work 09:45 ok fari 09:45 I'll look later, if I remember 09:45 The Longbow of Diana gets +1 multishot, always safely returns arrows, prevents arrows from mulching 09:45 The Heart of Ahriman is now a ruby (it still confers luck), confers slotless displacement and flying, makes you completely immune to item cursing and can be invoked for persistent monster detection 09:45 Magic Mirror of Merlin confers total reflection (like in vanilla, dragons and skilled+ wands can't bypass it) 09:45 Master Key of Thievery makes you completely immune to traps, and its invocation effect was changed to branchporting. 09:45 Mitre of Holiness now confers magic resistance and restores all Pw, not just half of it. The upper cap was also changed from +120 to +400. It was already buffed earlier allowing you to pray safely in Gehennom. 09:45 *fair 09:45 <{Demo}> damn, might play fh 09:47 FIQ no one likes those changes in roguelikes 09:47 nice longbow buff 09:47 except maybe dcss players 09:47 K2: Fair 09:47 :P 09:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 471 points, T:1628, killed by a giant bat 09:48 FIQ: does your MMoM still confer MR or just reflection now? 09:48 because both is way way OP 09:48 I also made 2-handed weapons confer x1.6 enchantment to damage, making the Tsurugi of Muramasa truly the strongest weapon in the game 09:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 4 points, T:16, killed by a falling rock 09:48 just like I intended it to (previously, grays+silver saber outdid it) 09:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1114 points, T:2126, killed by a jaguar 09:49 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Asmodeus, on T:43608 09:49 K2: Both 09:49 oh geez 09:49 Wasn't sure if I should remove MR from it or not 09:49 I did consider it 09:49 so slotless MR and reflection from one item 09:49 But that would ultimately be a nerf 09:49 my favoured buff to the Longbow of Diana would be to reduce the cooldown 09:49 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 4 points, T:171, killed by a kobold 09:49 It might have become too strong though.. 09:49 apart from that it doesn't need much help IMO 09:49 ais523_: Racial bows outdo it in damage 09:50 in sporkhack and evilhack, the MMoM loses MR but gets reflection and half spell damage 09:50 So it was basically useless 09:50 yes, but wield-slot reflection and the arrow supply means it's still worth it 09:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 121 points, T:113, killed by an orcish dagger 09:50 FIQHack already nerfed reflection as-is though 09:50 It's a far worse extrinsic than in vanilla 09:50 i cant remember if unnethack changed the MMoM as well 09:51 (except for MMoM, now) 09:51 It's not a *bad* trinsic but it's no longer useful against latergame stuff 09:52 wands used by the Yendorian Army among others (hi K2), dragons 09:52 :) 09:52 all bypass it to some extent 09:52 ais523_: honestly, the longbow was roughly on par with the heart of ahriman 09:53 not *useless* but not a good artifact 09:53 (The Heart was still useful for its levitation, after all) 09:53 i got rid of the heart of ahriman altogether 09:53 in comparision to other quest artifacts 09:53 K2: what did you do to barbarians instead 09:53 hmm. no. MMoM is unchanged in unnethack 09:53 i just changed the artifact to something new/unique 09:53 my favourite death in NetHack was when I had three different sources of protection against death rays and still ended up dying to a death ray a few turns later 09:54 look up 'The Ring of P'hul' 09:54 ais523_: what happened 09:54 I was levitating over water when a foocubus unequipped my armour, in the middle of a crowd of monsters 09:54 <{Demo}> ais how'd that happen 09:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:650 09:54 hahaha 09:54 i've had that happen over water 09:54 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:54 I decided I wasn't going to be able to wear it until I cleared out some of the monsters, but was wielding the longbow of diana at a time 09:54 *at the time 09:55 I hasn't realised that both my MR and reflection source had been unequipped by the foocubus, though, so I swapped to a melee weapon (unwielding the Longbow of Diana in the process) and instantly got death-rayed 09:55 hmm 09:55 vanilla should port my polearm changes 09:55 allthough half of the reason polearms are far less painful to use in fh is autoswap 09:55 anyway, I'm not convinced that quest artifacts should be good enough to outcompete the other choices for their slot, especially if they do something useful from inventory (like the Longbow of Diana does) 09:56 at least 3.6.x did do some improvements to it 09:56 if not quite as far as I'd want to go 09:56 * K2 waiting for FIQ to say 'vanilla should become fiqhack' 09:56 I don't think it's necessarily the best thing for every ranger ascension to use the Longbow rather than, say, a crossbow that they've been training up 09:56 :P 09:57 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 09:58 [hdf-us] [4k] l (Waab) (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 7596 points, T:3686, killed by a dwarf 09:58 ascension kits are too repetitive as it is 09:58 although it's hard to make too many changes to increase asc kit variety without breaking other things 09:58 ais523_: you realize crossbows atm are kinda useless 09:59 in vanilla, yes 09:59 I believe they've been buffed by some variants 09:59 also fwiw I want to encourage each role to use their own quest artifact at least to improve role variety 09:59 but aside from that I want some variance in an asc kit 09:59 role variety vs. build variety's an interesting question 09:59 obj properties and armor rebalance helps somewhat 09:59 in the FTL mod a while back I wanted to create a varied experience, but mostly focused on the equivalent of role variety 10:00 for example, a while back I decided to investigate what people used in their asc kits 10:00 one thing I noticed 10:00 the other extreme is possible, but probably harder to achieve 10:00 is that, as a result of my rebalancing of DSM, everyone used different DSM colors 10:00 which was kinda cool 10:00 still a major DSM focus, but better than the "silver vs gray" in vanilla 10:00 this is one of the reasons I added the trinsic tracker to NH4's xlog (this was probably inherited by FIQHack's xlog too) 10:01 some time I want to do statistical analysis of the trinsic sources in ascended games 10:01 there was one color that went unused among ascensions (iirc green) 10:01 but every other color was represented 10:01 what form of buff did you use to the DSMs? I know you buffed extrinsic resistances, was there an unrelated bug? 10:01 *buff? 10:01 I made them do more things 10:02 for example, YDSM gives stone res on top of acid res (which is also more useful in fiqhack) 10:02 these are the buffs I did: 10:03 YANI: a challenge mode in which all monsters are faster, possibly much faster (I suspect it would be possible to crank this up pretty high before the game became unascendable, based on existing challenge ascensions involving high burden states) 10:04 Red: Infravision (2017), Warning and See Invisible (2018). White: Waterproof (2017), seeking (2018). Orange: Free action. Black: Drain resistance. Blue: Speed, immunity to slow monster. Green: Sickness res. Yellow: Stone res. Shimmering: Stun res (2018) 10:04 this would generally make combat more difficult across the board in a way that's fair to every monster 10:04 hmm, sickness resistance seems minor compared to some of the other buffs, I can see why green went unused (especially as poison resistance is one of the least useful extrinsics when you have it intrinsically) 10:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Juiblex, on T:44341 10:05 before blue gave slow monster immunity, it was kinda useless because astral monsters had a habit of slowing you down 10:05 ais523_: Partial trinsics makes poison immunity more useful, though 10:05 for example, monsters with scrolls of stinking clouds can hurt you noticeably still 10:05 that was one of my favorite things to bring over from sporkhack - partial intrinsics 10:05 ah right, stinking cloud 10:06 I was trying to figure out what attack did poison-typed damage and wasn't trivially unihornable 10:06 there's also the fact that unihorns in fiqhack no longer restores lost attributes 10:06 restore ability still works (except for abuse -- attributes lost by abuse are lost "permanently") 10:07 ais523_: sickness res also means immunity to zombification, but it's not nearly as dangerous as in GruntHack 10:07 so players can play mostly fine without the immuntiy 10:07 *immunity 10:07 as long as they aren't careless 10:08 and by the time you have green DSM, unihorns cures it fine anyway 10:08 hmm a drow bones I think 10:08 Room partially lit 10:08 Just the edge columnbs dark 10:08 FIQ: Did you read the discussion about the unihorn weapon-tool split, and what do you think of it? 10:09 aosdict: I must have missed it 10:09 sorry 10:09 <{Demo}> how does fh artiwish work now? 10:09 {Demo}: it has worked the same ever since I first introduced the arti generation change 10:09 basically 10:09 <{Demo}> If I find an early lamp can I get an epic QA art? 10:10 No. 10:10 ! 10:10 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 189 points, T:487, killed by a jackal 10:10 quest artifact artifact 10:10 it changes artifact probability rates from 2/(number of artifacts) to 1/(number of artifacts WISHED for) 10:10 quality assessment art 10:10 <{Demo}> are QAs on the menu? 10:10 FIQ: bare bones: split unihorns into a tool item that has charges, and a weapon item that has enchantment. Enchant weapon on the tool transforms it into the weapon (like with a crysknife). The weapon can't be used to cure things. 10:10 I did not restrict quest artifact wishing 10:11 I considered it, but haven't done so, so far 10:11 <{Demo}> nice 10:11 <{Demo}> I want mkot 10:11 aosdict: hmmm 10:11 cool 10:12 I like it as long as you make sure the game is balanced around lack of realible unihorns 10:12 Ill should probably be as prevalent as it is right now 10:12 you may or may not have to adjust other things 10:12 I think the game can do fine without rebalancing other things 10:12 you just have to point out to players that there *are* other ways of curing stuff 10:12 :P 10:13 changing an item between item classes like that seems like it could break things 10:13 ais523_: I think aosdict intended it to work kinda like the DSM conversion 10:13 or the crocodile armor conversion 10:13 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:61456 10:13 right, but that's a change of item type, armour → armour 10:13 not the latter 10:14 a change of item class seems like it could cause confusion about what various bits of the item struct mean 10:14 the crocodile conversion is a good example, though 10:14 you just have to make sure to zero the charges 10:14 although corpses don't have many relevant bits to begin with 10:14 since charges == enchantment 10:15 hmmm 10:16 ADOM has polypiling just like NetHack has, but it only has potion of exchange (mostly similar to potion of polymorph) 10:16 polypiling can be hilariously broken in NetHack but I don't think I want to touch it 10:16 it's one of those mechanics that is really easy to avoid if you want to 10:16 and tracked as a conduct 10:16 that should be enough, probably 10:16 there were nerfs a while back (pre-3.4.3) that helped 10:16 there was a point where you could polypile for wands of wishing 10:16 does ADOM still have an infinite polypiling-based wish engine, btw? or did that get fixed? 10:17 that was fixed with 1.2.0 10:17 there were 2 changes 10:17 How did that work? 10:17 (or any other infinite polypile loops, even if they don't involve wishing?) 10:17 one change doesn't strictly nerf wish engines statistically, just makes them harder to get going 10:17 one basically removes it 10:17 1: a stack of items now polypile to different items 10:18 no more polypiling 19 brass rings into 19 rings of djinni summoning 10:18 2: once the game has polypiled into a =oDS once, it will never do so again 10:18 you *can* get more than one per polypile, but after that run, no more 10:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Baalzebub, on T:45111 10:19 ais523_: they did inadvertly introduce a new polypile exploit somewhat recently with a new item 10:19 I guess it'll get fixed eventually 10:19 Is that specific to the ring of djinni summoning, or any object? 10:19 they added a new artifact, potion belt, that makes potions weightless 10:19 i like the ' 1: a stack of items now polypile to different items' 10:19 this means that you can now polypile 19 potions at once 10:19 this always seemed a bit silly to me 10:19 on places with a danger level of 1, this allows you to polypile a stack of potions into something with more than 1 potions of exchange statistically plus gain attributes 10:20 not as exploitable as an outright wish engine, but definitely broken 10:20 (potion of exchange is ADOM's potion of polymorph) 10:20 <{Demo}> hey fiq, how well do pet floating eyes work on astral? 10:20 {Demo}: I've actually considered it 10:20 but it'll likely just die 10:21 <{Demo}> hmm 10:21 <{Demo}> true 10:21 <{Demo}> if you can summon them fast enough though 10:22 ais523_: so the only way you can get infinite wishes now are archmages 10:22 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha), 1802 points, T:2189, killed by a gas spore's explosion 10:22 and the kind of stuff you need to do for those aren't really feasible over simply just winning 10:22 morkpan 10:23 they did introduce a class of items a while back that, coupled with a corruption, allows (very slow) raising of max PP indefinitely 10:23 <{Demo}> ugh I just remembered that fh butchers altar scumming 10:23 so you no longer need to do pudding farm-esque strategies to get all the resources for it 10:23 but it's still easier to just win 10:23 right, archmage being possible but harder than winning seems fine to me 10:24 {Demo}: it was made far easier to convert altars 10:24 recently 10:24 it was too hard 10:24 how does the effort in getting wishing castable once compare to winning? 10:24 <{Demo}> but the thing where u have good boy points with ur god to unlock gifts 10:24 ais523_: I don't know. I know roughly what you need to do to get infinite bookcasting of it, but I don't know how hard "normal" use of it is 10:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Pir Dro Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:4713 10:25 {Demo}: well, that isn't much different from before 10:25 where it was completely random 10:25 I changed it to fix those times where you have to wait around for like 10k turns 10:25 because RNG didn't like you that day 10:25 now it's far easier to realibly get a gift if you're determined to 10:26 no need to rely on RNG being nice 10:26 FIQ: The unihorn idea happened in a long discussion of trying to make unihorns satisfy a) still good as a weapon for healers b) not give infinite status-effect cures c) not incentivize hoarding and carrying around as many horns as possible 10:26 aosdict: c is still a problem 10:26 with the changes 10:26 in fact, a bigger problem 10:26 since previously the only reason to do so was polypiling 10:26 now, a new unihorn means more charges too 10:27 I do not consider this a problem 10:27 YANI: every time you use a unihorn to cure a particular sort of problem, the odds of any unihorn succeeding at curing that sort of problem for you in the future permanently reduce 10:27 My biggest problem is how it removes a large part of the game's balance 10:27 the game has several ways to cure various stuff 10:27 but it doesn't matter because unihorns trivialize all of it 10:28 this YANI sort-of makes flavour sense (building up an unfortunate resistance to unihorn healing over time), and makes unihorns more of an emergency thing because of the consequence of using them 10:29 ais523_: hmmm 10:29 I like it 10:29 [hdf-us] [fh] tapwaterthirster (Demo) (Bar Orc Fem Cha) wished for "Blessed master key of thievery", on T:5365 10:29 ais523_: one of my ideas was for each horn to cure only one type of status effect. but that was fairly widely unpopular 10:29 <{Demo}> oh yeah mkot get 10:29 I guess my idea is the converse of yours? 10:30 because it would just encourage finding one hallu-cure horn, one blind-cure horn, one sickness-cure horn, and golf bagging them all around 10:30 <{Demo}> would sdsm or gdsm have been a better wish? yep 10:30 halfphy is way too strong in the game atm 10:30 it's basically "half melee damage" 10:30 make it 1/4 10:30 half phys basically doubles your HP 10:30 and 90% of the game's damage is melee 10:30 or 1/100 10:30 <{Demo}> yeah but I can't do my quest without being death rayed 10:30 or 1/100000 10:31 or make it variable 10:31 half phys/half magical doubles your HP* 10:31 you never know what you'll get hah 10:31 you should see it like that 10:31 call it 'The Box of Chocolates' 10:31 <{Demo}> k2 u mean slex? 10:31 rofl 10:31 stennowork: half phys increases your effective HP by more than double, because of the interaction with damage reduction from AC 10:32 YANI: damage reduction from AC applies before half phys, not after it 10:32 hmm ok 10:32 that's a really easy change I think 10:32 wait no 10:32 isn't that already like that 10:32 IMO halfphy should only work on physical damage 10:32 Vampires shouldn't be able to id amulet of strangulation 10:32 They don't breathe 10:33 stennowork: just checked 10:33 at least in fiqhack, it comes after AC calculation 10:33 sure it wouldnt have noticeable effects anyway? 10:33 but fh might have changed it 10:33 hrm strange 10:33 <{Demo}> does mkot in fh make it so u can't get stuff out of pits? 10:34 i thought i looked into that at some point 10:34 but i might just be misremembering 10:34 {Demo}: > should still work 10:34 <{Demo}> ok 10:34 <{Demo}> does it make it so u always escape portals? 10:34 no 10:35 asking the real questions 10:35 what about the VS 10:35 it specifically checks for VS and magic portals 10:35 however, it does allow you to escape anti-magic traps 10:35 neat 10:35 which you can never escape normally 10:36 ais523_: {Demo} complained about sokoban a while back which gave me a silly idea: replace Sokoban with Vlad 10:36 with +20-30 depth modifier 10:37 isn't there at least one variant which does it like that 10:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:46130 10:37 vlad in the mines 10:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:46131 10:37 dnh is vlad at top of mines 10:37 I also considered adding a maze level before vlad itself but, while Ḯ'm sure this is a case of a maze actually having a legitimate place, NetHack has too many of them as-is 10:37 Which is pretty good 10:37 You get some guaranteed loot but way out of depth monsters 10:37 basically so players would have to contend with depth +30 monsters to find the vlad stairs before the tower itself 10:38 Demo should I turn all this blood into holy water or keep it as food you think? 10:38 <{Demo}> what's ur xlvl? 10:38 <@malor> K2 I just crashed in dnethack when decending stairs into the "wizard's tower level with the zoo". Immediate crash back to the enter game page. "malor". Can you verify that I can enter without removing my game. Thanks as usual! 10:38 11 10:38 didn't potions of vampire blood like, increase max HP or something? 10:38 So half hunger now 10:38 oh right dnh 10:38 not unnethack 10:38 nvm then 10:38 Mostly peasant blood 10:39 pleasant blood I should say <3 10:39 <{Demo}> I'd hold onto it until the next hunger reduc or you happen to need hwater 10:39 okey 10:40 <{Demo}> hey fiq doesn't fh do something to increase ludios chances? 10:40 yes 10:40 similar to un and some other variants 10:40 first vault dlvl10+ 10:40 Found premium heart in a bones file demo so feelin gpretty good 10:41 <{Demo}> oh nice 10:41 <@malor> !tell K2 K2 I just crashed in dnethack when decending stairs into the "wizard's tower level with the zoo". Immediate crash back to the enter game page. "malor". Can you verify that I can enter without removing my game. Thanks as usual! 10:41 I'm on it, @malor. 10:41 there was a time 10:41 where dnh could generate exactly 127 levels in a dungeon 10:42 if you ever saved in these games 10:42 your game was doomed 10:42 nitrohack-style doomed with a big D 10:42 it was a relatively rare occurence 10:42 <{Demo}> fiq there's a worse bug 10:42 was 127 the absolute maximum? or did 128 work and/or crash more obviously? 10:43 <{Demo}> where some action leads to your levels getting deleted 10:43 ais523_: I think it was 127, might have been 128 10:43 demo so I take it wishing for =slowdig is pointless now? 10:43 <{Demo}> and it's in the current build 10:43 <@malor> In a previous game all of my "regular dungeon" levels were deleted, but going back to each of them and regenerating them saved my game. 10:43 but the point was that it was the absolute highest it could go in dnh 10:43 <{Demo}> yeah probably not very needed 10:43 and it had subtle bugs that would ultimately doom your game if you saved 10:43 @malor game recovered 10:43 K2: Message from @malor at 2019-10-28 10:41 EDT: K2 I just crashed in dnethack when decending stairs into the "wizard's tower level with the zoo". Immediate crash back to the enter game page. "malor". Can you verify that I can enter without removing my game. Thanks as usual! 10:43 there's an even worse bug in the version of hyperrogue I've been playing recently 10:43 probably some 1-indexed thing messed up 10:43 <@malor> thanks K2. 10:44 except very early in the game, pressing `m` causes the game executable to segfault, with no ability to recover the game 10:44 <{Demo}> fiq there's worse 10:44 and I play hyperrogue using vikeys (except in the Land of Mirrors), with `m` being adjacent to `n`, `j`, and `k` (and very near `.`) 10:44 {Demo}: hmm? 10:44 just use std::vector<> O/ 10:44 <{Demo}> if you are over the xchar limit in the right way, things will seem like they work normally until you go up the one way stairs 10:44 <{Demo}> with the amulet 10:44 nice 10:44 <{Demo}> and it's like nah you just escaped 10:44 fun 10:45 how common is this 10:45 that said, I still managed to get a three-orb victory in orb strategy mode this weekend (that game is still alive but might not be capable of more) 10:45 <{Demo}> never 10:45 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) made his first artifact wish - "blessed fixed +4 mitre of holiness", on T:46194 10:45 {Demo}: hmm is it a bug then 10:45 <{Demo}> because I think only ndnh devel build could do it, dnh and ndnh now don't use xchars for that anymore 10:46 ok 10:46 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 10:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 10:47 was this 127 levels in the whole game? or in a single branch? 10:47 127-level branches seem like the sort of thing that would only be appropriate for slex 10:47 hmm reading someone's YANI list 10:47 >Lenses of infravision 10:47 sounds kinda cool 10:47 ais523_: the whole game 10:48 slex probably has a 127-floor branch 10:48 it's not 127 exactly, it's bigger I think 10:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "magic marker", on T:46240 10:49 <@malor> Bubbles / Demo - are you guys noticing a higher incidence of crashing in dnethack lately or is it only my rolling 1's on the RNG? 10:50 malor I've seen a lot of program in disarray but not actual crashes 10:50 <{Demo}> I'm dnh crasher 10:51 <{Demo}> that crash with the wizard tower I think is related to an edge case with the special room in maze gen 10:51 <{Demo}> where it crashes 10:51 <{Demo}> on trying to make the level 10:51 <{Demo}> I've had experience with it recovering fine and you can just get the level to generate again but not die if u r not unlucky 10:52 !tell AntiGulp you should make angels of high enough level have a radiance, lighting up your nearby area and monsters being blinded+stunned by your radiance (like Archons) 10:52 AntiGulp shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, FIQ. 10:52 !tell AntiGulp the race I mean 10:52 No worries, FIQ, I've got this! 10:53 YASI: raytracing-based lighting that accounts for, e.g., light reflecting off SDSM and scattered light from light-coloured dungeon walls, leading to a physically accurate light level calculated for every square on the map 10:53 smop 10:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon him by Mars, on T:61712 10:54 that would add quite some atmosphere 10:54 stennowork: only if you actually display subtle light differences 10:54 brogue does this 10:55 otherwise it'd just look kinda weird 10:55 yes, it's the sort of change that would clearly add to the game but also clearly not be worth the effort 10:55 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) entered the adventure town for the first time, on T:2119 10:55 and you'd need 24-bit (or at least 256-shades-of-grey) color to make it worthwhile 10:55 perhaps you could do something similar with sounds and scents, too 10:57 does putty have 256-color support 10:57 it's the obvious hurdle towards universal 256-color support in recent times I Think 10:57 *I think 10:57 would be surprised if it wasn't that way 10:57 <{Demo}> do fh fire weps convey fire res when wielded? 10:57 I think it has 256-color, not sure about 24-bit 10:57 only terminal with truecolor support i know is iterm2 10:58 IPBT can parse 256-color codes but not render them 10:58 {Demo}: it does not 10:58 stenno: Konsole has for ages, I think gnome-terminal became capable of it more recently but am not sure 10:58 ah 10:59 https://gist.github.com/XVilka/8346728#now-supporting-true-color 11:00 {Demo}: fire, cold, shock, drain on weapons does not confer their respective immunity 11:00 the test code I just ran, `printf "\x1b[38;2;255;140;0mtest\x1b[0m\n"`, works in the gnome-terminal here 11:00 hterm has it, so wstty should be able to handle it too 11:00 it took me a while to get the code from memory 11:01 I get a fancy orange with that 11:01 in fact, even `printf "\x1b[38:2:255:140:0mtest\x1b[0m\n"` works 11:01 in tmux in konsole 11:01 yeah tmux and konsole work well 11:01 FIQ: unbold orange is the intended output, yes 11:01 ais523_, is your gnome libvte-based then? 11:01 I think gnome-terminal is libvte-based 11:01 that works too, same result 11:01 and yeah, not bold 11:02 a while back, konsole decided to mess with the shade characters 11:02 I didn't like it so I ended up recompiling from source 11:02 well according to that link, all libvte terminals support truecolor 11:02 I could disable it by disabling antialiasing 11:02 where is our color expert when you need him 11:02 but that had other, less desirable, effects 11:02 bhaak ! 11:02 the second code is one that's been popularised more recently because old terminals either ignore it or break in an easily detectable way 11:03 as opposed to the semicolon-based code, where a parse failure effectively leads to attempting to interpret the color channels of the color as SGR code, which could do more or less anything to the way your characters are displayed 11:03 vte does that too and it's horrible 11:03 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 13995 points, T:5529, killed by a giant turtle 11:03 @ shade character mess-up 11:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha) killed Glasya, on T:47450 11:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Orcus, on T:46680 11:04 vte tends to echo unrecognised codes rather than silently dropping them 11:04 -!- qdesjardin has joined #hardfought 11:04 oof 11:04 which is nice in that it makes it easy to recognise that a code is unrecognised, even from within the program 11:04 so no vt_tiledata? 11:04 but nasty for writing polyglots 11:04 yes, libvte is the main reason vt_tiledata isn't turned on by default 11:04 god dammit 11:04 stupid noobs 11:05 you could probably come up with a terminal code that it recognises but ignores, but you'd have to do bizarre things within an existing namespace 11:05 apparently windows powershell's "brown" is... quite white 11:07 unfortunately, it even echoes recognised commands if they contain private-use numbers like =361, which would otherwise be good as SGRs for vt_tiledata 11:07 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 11:08 i don't want to know which terminal emulator the powershell uses lol 11:08 some crappy thing 11:08 luckily MS gets a proper Terminal right now 11:08 <{Demo}> spent the last like 6k turns saccing 11:08 <{Demo}> no gift 11:08 <{Demo}> fh is MEAN 11:08 ais523_: oh yeah I remember seeing that a while back 11:08 (the terminal code standards support the regular 10 decimal digits, plus four extra private-use digits to allow people to come up with their own terminal codes that won't clash with officially standardised codes) 11:08 talking about https://github.com/microsoft/terminal 11:08 on gnome-terminal I think 11:09 it was impossible to make sense of what the user was doing 11:09 when watching 11:09 I suspect most terminal developers come up with codes by looking at what other terminals do and trying to spot patterns, rather than reading the specification 11:09 stennowork: I think powershell uses cmd with a custom color setup 11:09 yeah 11:09 as the terminal emulator 11:09 and cmd is.... 11:10 old... fashioned? 11:10 i guess 11:10 to put it nicely? 11:10 actually I don't really know if it's even called cmd 11:10 isn't cmd like.. the shell? 11:10 yeah i think so topoo 11:10 what is the terminal emulator called? 11:10 cmd is the shell, yes, not the terminal emulator 11:10 the default terminal emulator is actually a Windows subsystem, I think 11:10 does it even have a name 11:10 meaning that it's effectively as separate from the GUI as the kernel is 11:10 'windows Console' ? 11:11 this is why drag-and-drop into it didn't work for ages, and why copy-and-paste required weird workarounds 11:11 <{Demo}> how do I cure slowness in fh? I tried zapping myself with speed monster but that didn't work 11:11 {Demo}: you wait 11:12 if you got it permanently, you drink blessed potions of speed 11:12 you can only get it permanently from potions of wonder 11:12 <{Demo}> ok 11:12 <{Demo}> I forgot about wonder 11:12 it can give a lot of various trinsics 11:12 permanently 11:12 both really good ones 11:12 and really bad ones 11:13 it's not advised to drink it 11:13 <{Demo}> yeah no I hate it 11:13 it kind-of feels wrong for wonder's bad trinsics to be fixable that easily 11:13 <{Demo}> cause it targets me 11:13 ais523_: not all of them are 11:13 <@luxidream> intrinsic fumbling 🙂 11:13 basically everything that works as a timeout can be fixed the same way as the temporary ones can 11:13 slowness used to not have a cure 11:13 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14 but I wanted to give potions of speed a little more use 11:14 so I made them cure slowness 11:14 as a side effect it also cures intrinsic slowness 11:14 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 11:14 <@luxidream> no, because I complained slowness was OP 11:14 <@luxidream> and impossible to play around 11:14 @luxidream that might have been it 11:14 !oSpeed is interesting because it's a genuinely good item that would totally be used on most ascensions, except that it's redundant to speed as an extrinsic, which most players have by Astral 11:14 I don't recall fully but I do know that at one point you couldn't cure it 11:14 by anything besides just waiting it out 11:15 I think the temporary version does need a consumable cure, though 11:15 this is mostly a side effect of the way I designed the property "API" function-wise 11:16 set_property takes 0 to mean "set intrinsic permanently", 1+ as "set to last that many turns", -1 as "remove permanent intrinsic" and -2 as "remove both permanent and temporary intrinsic" 11:16 <@luxidream> ais523: that assumes players wish for speed boots 11:17 IME most players do 11:17 <@luxidream> in most cases I think potions of speed are more than sufficient in vanilla 11:17 they are 11:17 as a typical wizard player I just use haste self 11:17 :P 11:17 in fact, not having speed at all is easily compensated for in vanilla, although it will make the game harder 11:17 in ADOM I've managed to get a rather excessive speed level somehow 11:17 in this game 11:17 it's more, if you're wishing for boots, there's no real competition in slot but jumping boots, which are a lot more effort 11:18 people on discord were wondering what it comes from 11:18 I.. honestly don't know 11:18 probably just excessive luck 11:18 with corpses 11:18 that and I got exceedingly lucky with corruption roulette when I was greedy for stats from unique bosses 11:18 Oh sweet a dokkalfar eternal matriarch 11:19 Is that the highest base level mob that occurs naturally that I can tame (in law quest)? 11:19 I want to play adom with NH4 ui 11:19 ADOM's interface is terrible 11:19 like 11:19 it's even worse than NH3's in some ways 11:19 Lvl 5 wizard throne wish, sdsm or MKoT? Already got Sting so i tend to go MKoT before another artifact appears, right? 11:20 <@luxidream> sdsm 11:20 mkot 11:20 <@luxidream> FIQ: no 11:20 <@luxidream> :p 11:20 :D 11:20 half physical damage is really good 11:20 but I guess sdsm is nice too 11:20 <@luxidream> sdsm protects your squishy wizard from wands 11:20 cue you dying from winter wolves after wishing for mkot 11:21 or from an ant swarm after wishing for sdsm 11:21 pppft an orc in sokoban killed me 11:21 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: quit] 11:21 with wand of death 11:21 Had wand orcs frequently, right. I'll go SDSM. 11:21 Thx all 11:21 fair 11:21 good luck 11:21 <@luxidream> hm, I don't think wishing for armor in general at the castle is a good idea 11:21 https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2517/source 11:22 @luxidream depends on your current gear 11:22 but mostly, armor wishes is just luxury 11:22 ^ appropriate given the conversation 11:22 K2: haha 11:22 rld, my best games all had MKoT. But also i tend to die a lot pre 10kturns :D 11:22 <@luxidream> I usually opt for cursed genocide over dragon scale mail 11:22 <@luxidream> at the castle 11:22 jupp, me to 11:23 <@luxidream> it's simply more efficient 11:23 rld is an IRC<->Discord gateway 11:23 you mean to address @luxidream 11:23 * K2 slaps rld around a bit with a large trout 11:23 * FIQ slaps K2 around a bit with a large FIQ-bot 11:23 oh ok... you want to make it personal 11:23 but i think i will play this one safe (thx FIQ, ment luxidream) 11:23 afk for a bit 11:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:5561 11:24 Yay, got +3 sdsm 11:24 <@luxidream> large trout for nethack weapon 11:26 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) killed the Archipelago Ancient, on T:3201 11:28 <@Tone> backscroll, but I used potions of speed on the planes during my last ascension 11:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:5734 11:29 <@Tone> The fact that they exist means that I don't have to consider wasting a wish on speed boots 11:29 blessed potion was 250 turns right, and it would stack 11:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:5773 11:30 <@Tone> Yes I had four of them, it's plenty for the end game 11:30 oooops 11:30 large trout? is it a weapon or comestible 11:30 both 11:30 <@Tone> I didn't even have a source of levitation that game outside of potions and the spell. The potions of levitation are also sufficient for the end game 11:31 like a c corpse 11:31 <@luxidream> alex__: yes 11:31 stennowork: you already found the authorative source to 24 bit support. I have nothing to add :-) 11:31 hah ok ^_^" 11:31 <@Tone> That character actually had an interesting ascension kit. Dwarvish iron helm, leather gloves, elven cloak (on an arc...), jumping boots 11:31 nice! 11:31 those things make ascensions really cool imo 11:32 <@Tone> or a very not interesting ascension kit, I suppose 11:32 the fact that its not interesting makes it interesting 11:32 ascending on a budget 11:33 those are the typical wishless polypile-less ascensions :P 11:33 <@Tone> Basically just jumping boots, gdsm, and an amulet of reflection for magic items 11:33 stennowork: + boneless 11:33 <{Demo}> an asc kit with no mr or reflec 11:33 <@Tone> No MR would be dangerous due to touch of death 11:33 lots of players play wiz so you can usually find MR in bones 11:34 <@Tone> Reflection would be possible but uneccessary 11:34 yeah no bones 11:34 bones is cheating anyway 11:34 <@luxidream> be undead 11:34 <{Demo}> yeah lux 11:34 <@luxidream> vampire lord, with unchanging 11:34 <{Demo}> was gonna say that 11:34 bones can be fun 11:34 really not a fan of unchanging lol 11:34 alex___, uppercase Fun 11:34 which is not the kind of fun i like :P 11:34 <@luxidream> vamp lord has regneration at least 11:35 <@luxidream> you don't have the horrendous polyform regeneration 11:35 <{Demo}> and flight 11:35 <{Demo}> and unbreathing 11:35 <@Tone> Ah, yes that would actually make it tolerable lux 11:42 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:4153 11:50 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:52 what maniac wrote this tubhack code jesus 11:54 <{Demo}> refactor it all 11:55 Demo 11:55 I am going to win ndnh again 11:56 apparently i talked to mcw about tubhack in april 2018 11:56 ...if i dont starve 11:57 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 11:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 11:58 <{Demo}> yeah no nice mm 11:58 <{Demo}> and it's unnerfed there 11:58 <{Demo}> going not mines is usually rough for inc, yeah 11:58 gogogo Porkman 11:58 porkman the masochist 11:58 playing the strange variants 11:59 INC cannot even eat the gillyweed to do the archipelago properly 11:59 but look at me :) 11:59 found boots of flying on d:1 11:59 <{Demo}> ah nice 11:59 i played a vampire and could do the archipelago just chill 11:59 accidentally 12:01 now i gotta do lokoban 12:01 the question is... how many gas spore explosions can i take 12:01 <{Demo}> porkman can u pork this run extra hard so that I'll have more stuff to do mild balance efforts towards for the next version? 12:01 <{Demo}> you can usually avoid taking any 12:01 how? 12:01 usually you go in and are swamped 12:01 with lots of them on all sides 12:02 <{Demo}> wait for them to step away 12:02 <{Demo}> or wait for them to move such that you can take a corner 12:04 <@malor> I am killing shopkeepers and it is NOT removing my telepathy? 12:04 <@malor> I am a chaotic anachron, but I thought that would still do it? 12:04 <@malor> I'm not looking forward to doing the quest with telepathy 😦 12:04 <{Demo}> you are chaotic so no 12:04 I dunno about variants but in vanilla, Chaotics can murder with impunity. 12:05 <@malor> does anything remove telepathy? 12:05 <@malor> for a chaotic. 12:05 Gremlins 12:05 lol look at this 12:05 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05 <{Demo}> yeah they aren't budging 12:06 <{Demo}> can you not tank 2 blasts? 12:06 <@malor> is that all it is? 12:06 <{Demo}> malor, gremlins 12:06 <@luxidream> can you genocide gas spores 12:06 yes 12:06 <@malor> now I feel bad for murdering those poor shopkeepers 😦 12:06 @v?gas spore 12:06 gas spore (e) | Lvl: 1 | Diff: 2 | Spd: 3 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 10 | Attacks: 4d6 suicide explode physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, flies, breathless, mindless 12:07 Pinkbeast not impunity right? 12:07 Pinkbeast you still get the luck tank I think?? 12:07 <@luxidream> no luck tank 12:07 <@luxidream> alignment 12:07 Ah right 12:07 I thought there was still something that was bad abiout murder as chaotic 12:07 wtf is that all the fire traps i get? 12:07 <{Demo}> it got nerfed 12:07 Ah alignment penalty 12:08 Righto 12:08 <@malor> ok. Should I expect fewer than 100 master liches? 12:08 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:09 And {Demo} yeah it's refactoryiasing time 12:11 are you touching the tubhack stuff? 12:11 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:12 were is it hosted? 12:13 tubhack.com seems down 12:13 Yeah, "impunity" was wrong 12:14 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 12:14 ah well, whatever 12:14 <{Demo}> stenno, fiq and I had a local version 12:14 meh 12:15 <{Demo}> ok so something weird is up with ndnh 12:15 i should work on nodehack more 12:15 <{Demo}> there was definitely an elf throwing arrows 12:15 s/more/again/ 12:15 lol 12:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:9122 12:16 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) completed Lokoban, on T:6709 12:17 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 12:17 o7 12:17 \o 12:17 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 12:17 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 12:19 someone give me a refresher, how does two-weapon skilling work over to-hit/to-damage 12:20 take the lower of your 2wep skill and the skill of the weapon IIRC? 12:20 say if you were two-weaponing a dagger and a sabre 12:20 FIQ in fiqhack does each monster have "memory" of which tiles they have seen/where objects are? 12:20 if you're expert in daggers + two-weaponing, and unskilled with the other weapon 12:20 So does each being have a copy of the map/item lists (at their last memory of them) 12:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Pri Elf Fem Cha) had Sting bestowed upon her by Susanowo, on T:12755 12:21 would that mean you'd effectively be not skilled, hitting with the sabre 12:23 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 12:24 As I understand it, with the dagger you are expert, with the sabre, unskilled. 12:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha) was given their Quest, on T:49154 12:25 kk 12:25 <@malor> do I have to worry about Sara dying any more? Or once I accept the quest she can die and it doesn't doom me? 12:27 <{Demo}> if she dies oh well 12:27 <{Demo}> once you are accepted 12:27 (In 3.6 and derived variants. In 3.4 and friends, the primary weapon counts and the secondary is just some extra damage on the side.) 12:28 -!- attie has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:28 I read up on quests and having the leader potentially die before you can get yours for no good reason is just dumb 12:29 <@luxidream> hardly happens 12:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed figurine of a ki-rin", on T:50079 12:29 <@luxidream> it's happened to me once, and it was entirely my fault and I managed to salvage it 12:29 That quest is kinda special anyway 12:29 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 12:29 In that you want to go as early as posso 12:29 But it's super scary 12:29 So you don't 12:29 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1314 12:30 <@luxidream> oh you are talking about ana quest? 12:30 Yeah 12:30 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed figurine of a ki-rin", on T:50089 12:30 FIQ do monsters just "know" the layout of the dungeon entirely? 12:30 and/or anyone else who's done any of the monster ai stuff ^ 12:30 still no players named 'paxed' - it seems that they are procrastinating the accoutn creation 12:30 i apprechiate how our clan motto is lived already 12:31 <@luxidream> paxed is going to play? 12:31 maybe, maybe 12:31 <@luxidream> impossible 12:31 <@luxidream> once you become a dev you sign a contract to never play nethack again 12:32 oh, right 12:32 the Rogue bones vamp I killed had a horn of plenty on him 12:32 Also a tin of nurse meat 12:32 Demo 12:32 your status window doesnt wrap around 12:33 <{Demo}> :( 12:35 not finding a lot of useful spellbooks this run 12:36 as in useful for me specifically 12:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:50427 12:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:50432 12:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:50602 12:47 I always love it when I find a new spellbook. Cool new power! Then it turns out to be Restore Ability or Create Familiar. Detect food or invisibility or cancellation. 12:47 <@IceBox> Detect Food Hypeeeee!! 12:47 Restore Ability is so nice to have in Evilhack 12:47 unihorn doesn't do it 12:47 <@IceBox> what are the chances for non-wizards to write unknown spellbooks again? 12:48 <@IceBox> something real low, right? 12:48 reeeeal low 12:48 <@luxidream> about 1/3 at max luck 12:48 <@luxidream> impractical below that 12:48 BEHiker91W all of those spells you listed have value in vanilla except maybe invis 12:48 <@luxidream> new level 2 spell: free divination training. replaces detect food 12:48 <@luxidream> no hunger cost 12:48 lul 12:49 I also find that I now work in the make invis wand into my play, now that the effect is no longer permanent 12:49 but yeah if you have a unihorn, restore ability spell is not really needed 12:49 -!- attie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:50 Detect food is actually not that bad 12:50 K2 / AntiVirus sorry for spam but I know you two do variants - do the monsters have innate layout of the dungeon (minus traps)? 12:50 no hunger penalty to cast and its a good one to use to exercise divination skill 12:50 I play variants ;) 12:50 I.e. they don't have to see walls etc 12:50 Invisibility is also nice, esp. since it's my current char's special spell 12:50 Just that I don't have many equiv. spells to practice that with 12:50 -!- stennowork has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:51 <@luxidream> invisibility from the spell is worse than from the consumable 12:51 Hence my clarifying that they're not useful for me specifically 12:51 <@luxidream> should be the other way around but okay 12:51 actually reminds me, I don't think I formally ID'd that potion yet 12:52 bubbles_nh I didnt change how monster perceive the dungeon 12:53 i cant remember if i ported over xnethack 'monsters on castle level know about the traps' or not 12:53 Okey dokey cheers k2 12:53 i should probably do evilhack edits when sober 12:53 Naaahhh 12:53 :P 12:55 Was wondering if it would be cool to have monsters also discover the level 12:55 And shout to each other to share knowledge 12:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:50928 12:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:50930 12:55 well, monsters already seem to know exactly where you are already 12:55 I guess the monsters are usually "native" to that level so them knowing the layout isn't totes weird 12:55 from vanilla 12:55 Defo changing that 12:55 'totes' hahaha 12:55 Imagine an orc war band with hunting dogs 12:56 Would make water more interesting 12:56 i added some new t-shirt logos to evilhack 12:56 Get wet to lose scent etc 12:56 one of them is 'totes adorbs' 12:56 that could be cool, if the dogs find you, they howl to the orcs etc 12:56 huh that would be cool 12:56 cross water, lose scent 12:57 brb 12:57 The big issue is if it would be too laggy if I have to calculate FOV for each monster as well 12:58 [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) bribed Asmodeus with 14 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:42780 12:58 [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:106488 12:58 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:59 long game 12:59 whatcha doin over there skydivemike?? 13:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:106493 13:00 Also do you think the game should show a different color for "unseen but memorised" versus "seen but unlit" tiles? 13:01 Unless it already does in 3.6 13:01 I can'ttell 13:03 Nethack should show tiles that you have been on or seen a monster on in a slightly different shade so that you can avoid stepping on traps. 13:03 That's for sure 13:04 Also tempting to make light "fall off" 13:04 So that at the extent of your lamp you can only see shadows, like warning 13:04 Players with ascension streaks all have little notebooks where they carefully annotate exactly which squares are safe to step on. 13:04 Then make the light sources all have a much larger effect 13:05 So exploring the dungeon is easier, but you still can't see monsters from afar very well 13:05 If that makes any sense? 13:05 Oh, so lamps have three squares of light and one more where you get warning? 13:05 I was thinking more 2 light 3 warning or something 13:05 Hmm. 13:05 But you'd still see walls in the expanded section 13:05 And that items exist, but not what items 13:06 All the objects would be ]. 13:06 Something like that! 13:07 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2019-10-28 06:33 EDT: your EPI page is down :( 13:08 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09 !who 13:09 jonathanhanes_: [hdf-us] spleen [nh363] Noah [nh363] SkydiveMike [nh363] klintos [nh363] porkman [ndnh] amelie [tnnt] hothraxxa [tnnt] mosen [tnnt] shadowcat [tnnt] Hill [tnnt] AntiVirus [evil] | [hdf-eu] spontiff [nh363] AlbertB [tnnt] | [hdf-au] No current players 13:11 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 1142 points, T:1932, killed by a gnome lord, while reading a book 13:12 that gnome hates books! 13:12 haha 13:12 books teleport and paralyze me 13:12 I need to stop answering "Y" when the book is difficult 13:13 but i'm SOOOO excited to learn the spell its hard to resist 13:13 ha ha actually that remind me of The Jerk K2 13:13 He hates these cans!! 13:14 omg i was just looking up the youtube of it 13:14 hahah nice 13:14 love that mvoie 13:14 movie even 13:14 its a good one for sure 13:14 his 'special purpose' 13:14 All I need, is this magic mirror, this whistle, and this tin opener...I don't need anything else! 13:14 do you know the thermos song? 13:15 oooooh I'm picking out a thermos for you! 13:15 lol 13:15 'i'm picking out a thermos for you / not an ordinary thermos will do / the extra best thermos you can buy / with vinyl, and stripes, and a cup built right in! 13:15 yeah I like a lot of classic comedy movies like that 13:15 Caddy Shack, Stripes, Arthur 13:15 etc. 13:16 aarrrrrrmy training, sir! 13:16 that one is so good 13:16 grew up on all those 13:16 same, Dad's movie collection 13:17 bubbles_nhww: They just know. The alternative would kill save size 13:17 thats a fact... jack! 13:18 back 13:18 FIQ true! 13:18 @luxidream so that's why I don't see ais play anymore 13:19 i thought it was because he transcended 13:20 K2: yes exactly 13:20 transcended into the mythical DT realm 13:20 no more nethack play at that point 13:20 :) 13:21 so fiqhack's replaymode is kinda unstable 13:21 in that it doesn't really work all that well 13:21 however, there was a point where it actually did work 13:21 what changed 13:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed spellbook of stone to flesh", on T:52688 13:22 basically 13:22 at first I had what is basically the NitroHack save system, from replaymode's POV 13:22 it only dealt with commands 13:22 it actually worked 13:22 as long asyou never changed an option ingame (including autopickup) because for whatever reason, those aren't actually logged in the save 13:22 besides in the diffs 13:23 or the engine changed in any way (this is similar to NitroHack) 13:23 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 13:23 anyway this isn't really a reasonable setup for what essentially amounts to a rolling-release game 13:23 so I added means to handle the save diffs if the commands didn't work 13:23 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed figurine of ki-rin", on T:52698 13:23 it's about as stable as the NetHack 4.2 save system in doing replays 13:23 i.e. very badly 13:24 hmm 13:24 not really sure what's wrong with the diffs, I'm probably doing something stupid 13:24 the fix is probably easy 13:24 but still 13:24 oh oh oh 13:24 the problem is 13:24 stormhelm in a shop 13:24 for some STUPID reason 13:25 nethack 4.3 save diffs does NOT work if you try to playback a state you got via commands 13:25 you *need* to setup the game state from diffs 100% 13:25 or the diff will not load 13:25 I have no idea why 13:26 and this basically makes things far more complicated than they should be 13:26 this can be seen in toggling autopickup 13:26 autopickup does one thing 13:26 it turns autopickup on or off 13:27 nothing else 13:27 so logically, if I do this 4 times 13:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] Noah (Kni Hum Mal Law), 1355717 points, T:52864, petrified by a cockatrice corpse 13:27 I should get 2 sets of identical diffs 13:27 so at what point in fiqhack did ti go from working well to not working well? 13:27 for turning autopickup on and off 13:27 I don't 13:27 K2: when I started adding failsafes for when the game can't playback the game using only the commands 13:27 <@luxidream> !lg 13:27 <@luxidream> !lastgame 13:27 @luxidream: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/N/Noah/nethack/dumplog/1571153124.nh.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/V/Vis/nethack/dumplog/1572280810.nh.html | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/p/plisp/nethack/dumplog/1572148829.nh.html 13:28 because I can't just try to load the last diff or similar, I need to go back to the very beginning of the last save checkpoint 13:28 and go all the way using diffs 13:28 @luxidream if you're looking for tnnt games, do the same command in #tnnt 13:28 <@luxidream> thanks 13:28 and presumably there is a bug somewhere in this code 13:28 because it only works sometimes and is generally rather unrealible 13:28 <@luxidream> I was looking at the last death though 13:29 this is a shame because there was a point where fiqhack replays were, minus option changes, 100% realible 13:29 and *fast* (which was the reason I rewrote the replay handling in first place) 13:29 FIQ: you'll figure it out 13:30 it didn't take like 10 minutes to load a save in replaymode like it can take for NetHack4 in bad cases 13:30 more like 30s at worst 13:30 to load an entire save from beginning to end 13:30 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 13:31 (NitroHack still easily beats it -- it takes 2s -- but it's because it has an almost pure NH3 engine, which was concerned with working fast on ancient DOS machines) 13:31 iirc the major bottleneck in the NH4 engine is the new AI travel 13:32 <@luxidream> somehow NH4's travel is strictly worse than NH3 :p 13:32 Noah no oh my god 13:32 that's an unrelated problem 13:32 you fool ;A; 13:32 !lastgame Noah 13:32 Umbire: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/N/Noah/nethack/dumplog/1571153124.nh.html | [hdf-eu] (sorry, no dump exists for nh:Noah) 13:32 what NH4 does is enable travel to work for monsters 13:32 as well as players 13:33 you even barely escaped the pit just earlier 13:33 monsters use travel to figure out the closest path to a location they're currently pathfinding to 13:33 ohhhh noooooooo... 13:33 in NH3 they just use bird-path 13:33 ignoring walls etc 13:33 it... doesn't work that well, but is usable enough 13:34 Demo, you around? 13:34 I don't know what NH4 did to mess up travel in rare cases 13:35 I just found quicksilver in a chest 13:35 <@luxidream> nh4 travel also stops for every single pile 13:35 <@luxidream> for some reason 13:36 fiqhack fixed that, but I'm pretty sure NH3 also does this 13:36 and engravings 13:36 it's a huge pain 13:36 <@luxidream> NH3 is better about it 13:37 <@luxidream> actually, NH3 doesn't seem to stop at all 13:37 <@luxidream> engravings do stop you in vanilla though 13:38 just checked 13:38 I think I figured it out 13:38 NH4 travel handles things on the ground the same way as regular long-walks do (shift+dir or ctrl+dir) 13:39 NH3 does not 13:39 long-walks do stop for things on the floor and engravings 13:39 travel does not (in NH3) 13:40 do we have pilesize in vanilla? 13:40 <@luxidream> so by fixing the problem in FH, did you also make long walks not stop for items? 13:40 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:41 no 13:41 fiqhack commit 7403aaa80e0ebe6ec18ce864a20ccb89eddc18f9 13:41 seems to essentially replicate NH3 behaviour 13:41 without me realizing it 13:41 (I just found it really annoying, didn't realize that NH3 always behaved that way) 13:42 also 54007785e3541c3f274d265b90bcad8edc7649ee 13:45 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:45 Pinkbeast: you know what would be really cool 13:45 if your userpage existed 13:45 so there was no red links in your edits 13:45 :3 13:47 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 13:54 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:56 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 13:57 <@Umby> test 13:57 -!- qdesjardin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6] 13:57 alright then 13:59 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 13:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 14:04 BEHiker91W: I've been considering doing a "show you where things have stepped" as an option to #terrain. (rather than the nethack4 way where it shows them in brown on the regular map) 14:06 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06 <@Tone> NH3 travel is pretty bad. It doesn't stop when you see new threats like monsters, and it ignores paths if there's a trap in the way so it becomes almost unusable in gehennom. 14:08 <@Tone> aosdict: That would be a great feature. It's something I really like about NH4 variants. Early on, it is very important to know what tiles have been stepped on (and are thus "safe") 14:10 Hi Tone 14:11 <@luxidream> Why not have the brown tiles 14:11 <@luxidream> It’s more informative 14:11 <@luxidream> and doesn’t require you to spam an extended command 14:12 @Tone The only issue is that it probably involves increasing struct rm by a byte. Which probably won't break the bank compared to variants like fiqhack's footprint, but would be a no-deal for people like ais523. 14:12 aosdict: It would be nicer to have it on the map, but potentially ugly or disruptive (since there are such a limited amount of colors). 14:13 aosdict: It would be nicer to have it on the map, but potentially ugly or disruptive (since there are such a limited amount of colors). 14:13 <@Tone> Heya Umbire 14:13 Terrain would at least be something. 14:14 <@Tone> @luxidream It would be nice if it was just an option you could toggle, I think. (which I assume NH4 does, but I've never tried to turn it off) 14:14 @luxidream I just don't like the brown tiles. 14:14 Also, I have no idea how this would be implemented with respect to actual tilesets. How does NH4 tiles do it? 14:15 <@Tone> That's why you make it togglable :) 14:15 <@Tone> People who don't like it don't have to use it 14:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:54640 14:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:54658 14:17 <@luxidream> lol @ nh4 tiles 14:18 <@luxidream> I don’t think there are even curses compatible tiles 14:18 <@luxidream> I wish though 14:19 well, Fourk at least has tiles. 14:19 So I expect nh4 has tiles. 14:19 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fireproof greased bag of holding", on T:13511 14:23 Umbire: might be worth referencing ais523's zero-turn death in the T:1 death one 14:23 the wiki article that is 14:23 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Do_not_pass_go._Do_not_collect_200_zorkmids. 14:23 Isn't it already there? 14:23 Yeah it's already mentioned 14:23 oh, it is 14:23 I can't read 14:23 sorry 14:23 :P 14:23 I'm in the middle of rewriting it incidentally :B 14:23 but that one is technically a T:0 death 14:24 because the player has yet to gain control 14:24 @luxidream fiqhack's release has a couple of tilesets 14:24 that was actually the main showstopper for fh release 14:24 my utter lack of image editing experience 14:25 eventually I caved in and added the few needed tiles 14:25 so you have vt_tiledata? 14:25 I do not 14:25 that is different 14:25 pity 14:25 you should 14:25 the purpose of vt_tiledata is transmitting tile metadata over a shell 14:25 its not a big patch 14:26 yes, but i can take your tileset and build it so that it works for software that supports vt_tiledata 14:26 for example wstty 14:27 would it really work though 14:27 yes 14:27 I mean, it's curses 14:27 oh 14:27 it has a bunch of data on the screen that isn't the actual game 14:27 wont that confuse it? 14:27 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 14:28 NH3 only has that in the form of the status bar 14:28 and it's nice and cleanly seperated 14:28 hm i don't know 14:28 I mean it might work in certain setups 14:28 well vt_tiledata has windows 14:28 you can make NH4 look somewhat like a NH3 game 14:28 kind of 14:28 standard nethack has 6 window types 14:28 do you have more in nh4? 14:29 NH4 completely rewrote the windowing system 14:29 there are clear analogous equivalents 14:29 oh 14:30 but you can't just take vt_tiledata and port it straight over I think 14:30 right 14:30 you'd need to make something different 14:30 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 72872 points, T:27425, killed by a gray dragon 14:30 I think the better approach would be something akin to dcss webtiles 14:30 this sounds increasingly complex, yeah :P 14:31 what happens there? 14:31 i guess it gives back json or so? 14:31 I don't know how it works fully 14:31 but it does some fancy magic 14:32 because you can watch other people 14:32 who are playing in webtiles 14:32 in tty 14:32 and vice versa 14:32 and it's not just the vt_tiledata-style tiles 14:32 but proper tilesets similar to various NH3 windowports, including bigger ones 14:32 uses websocket like wstty 14:32 not just a 1:1 glyph-tile thing 14:33 yes 14:33 actually nh4 has something like that 14:33 from nitrohack 14:33 but i think that part is not used 14:33 what do you mean? 14:34 are you referring to what fiqhack calls "enhanced watchmode" 14:34 no 14:34 ok 14:34 what then? 14:34 @luxidream NH4 ships with five tilesets (three graphical and two text). You can switch between them at runtime. 14:34 you can receive JSON data from it, over the network 14:35 From the options screen. 14:35 stenno: oh, that 14:35 n4o uses it 14:35 oh? 14:35 <@luxidream> hm I had no idea 14:35 yeah, locally 14:35 i thought it was deemed too insecurey 14:35 because it is 14:35 but security is not a problem over localhost 14:35 :P 14:36 anyway I think something akin to enhanced watchmode would be enough 14:36 for something like webtiles 14:36 to work 14:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:56026 14:36 @luxidream Scroll down to "Screenshots" here: http://nethack4.org/releases/4.3-beta2.html 14:36 it would be nice to get the display data in an easier to read format (i.e. json) 14:36 (to clarify, "enhanced watchmode" is the game allowing you to watch other people playing using a personalized game client -- it uses your own display options, etc) 14:36 or XML if you want to be archaic (sp?) 14:36 <@malor> if I didn't kill the Wizard of Yendor he won't follow me is that correct? 14:37 (There aren't screenshots of _all_ the tilesets there, but e.g. rl-tiles is shown.) 14:37 that's why watching fh or nh4 games on hdf has a N/A for screen resolution 14:37 because it relies on your own setup 14:37 wait how does that client send the data? 14:37 not the player's 14:37 its still ansi-term tho? 14:37 must be 14:38 stenno: it relies on the fact that NH4 saves can be opened both to play with, and in read-only 14:38 by an infinite amount of applications 14:38 it uses parts of what the nitrohack-based server already does 14:39 but replaces some configuration with things that are easy enough to set up on dgl side 14:39 it wouldn't be hard, I think 14:39 to make a customized NH4 client for webtiles 14:39 that made use the above 14:39 *made use of the above 14:40 i read quite a lot from the original nitrohack code (never built it though because it wouldn't compile on osx becauseu of epoll) 14:40 maybe i should look a bit at the nh4 code too 14:40 stenno: if you've ever tried to watch people on N4O 14:40 it's kinda like that, UI-wise 14:40 but it doesn't have to be 14:40 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 14:40 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Changing host] 14:40 -!- eLtMosen has joined #hardfought 14:40 dunno when i last was on that server 14:40 it could be its own client completely 14:40 i think i still have a streak from like 2015 on there 14:41 yes that is interesting 14:42 the current windowport api is quite convoluted though unfortunately 14:42 http://home.fiq.se/enhanced_watchmode.png is how it looks like atm 14:42 anyway, nothing stops me from making a seperate windowport that does the same thing but displays webtiles 14:42 well ok, laziness does :P 14:42 but you get my point 14:42 so is it displaying this basically by reading a save file at the same time that the player is playing? 14:42 yes 14:43 something nh4 already supports well 14:43 is there documentation about the save file format? 14:43 You can even have two active windows on your screen while you play. For instance, you could have a textmode window that has room for the whole map, and a graphical tiles window that shows only the area around the player but with large tiles. 14:44 there is, but you don't really need it I think -- all you need to concern yourself with is the windowport code 14:44 after all, for webtiles, you don't want to change the game engine 14:44 just the UI 14:45 this is also what NH4's fuzzer does 14:45 it's basically a windowport 14:45 At some point, we want to replace the network protocol with something reasonable and secure so that public servers can let remote clients connect. 14:45 Ideally. 14:45 that interfaces to the same compiled game engine 14:45 jonadab: sure, but the current system works well enough 14:45 The current code assumes, among other things, that the client is trusted. 14:46 webtiles can be done without fixing the server 14:46 Oh, true. 14:46 webtiles doesn't require that. 14:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha) destroyed Pestilence, on T:56222 14:46 what server would give, however, is the ability to use your local game install 14:46 to play on servers 14:46 there are issues beyond security 14:47 the way the game server works right now does NOT play well with NH4's revised occupation system 14:47 Ah. 14:47 it relies on the game continuing to issuing commands over and over automatically 14:47 seamlessy 14:47 but remotely, this means a doubleping per command 14:47 at best 14:47 more than that I think to issue a complete command 14:47 Granted, that's not ideal. 14:48 basically 14:48 it's slow 14:48 and not usable 14:48 at all 14:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha) destroyed Death, on T:56276 14:48 I think it'd be better for the server to deal with multiturn commands 14:48 but let the client issue interrupts 14:49 it means the server will play a bit further 14:49 but this is no worse than current ssh 14:49 and there are no reasonable alternative beyond current lag 14:49 perhaps an option? 14:49 Go go malor 14:49 (again) 14:50 FIQ: multiturn commands on the server seems reasonable to me. 14:50 Though there should be some delay built in, to give _time_ not just for interrupts, but also for the player to watch what is happening as it happens. 14:51 just send output each time you perform the command 14:51 simple 14:51 If you're not waiting for that output to be received, you still want to put in a delay. 14:52 (If you wait for confirmation that the output is received, your perf is back where it was when you waited for the client to send a command.) 14:52 you could always be fancy 14:52 -!- jonathanhanes_ is now known as jonathanhanes 14:52 and try to play around with the user's ping 14:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha) destroyed Famine, on T:56402 14:52 basically allow interruptions to go back in time according to what the client has actually received 14:52 My instinct is to give the player an option to choose how long the delay is, with a reasonable default. 14:53 jonadab: the game already has this 14:53 it's animation 14:53 Reasonable default for online play is probably slightly longer than for local. 14:53 FIQ: Ah, ok. 14:54 [hdf-us] [un] richards (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the ghost of Andrio, the former Thaumaturge, on T:4813 14:54 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fireproof greased spellbook of polymorph", on T:15967 14:54 finally 14:54 time for some foolishness! 14:54 * Umbire grabs some popcorn 14:55 I hate this code and I am going to delete almost all of it except the fov and pathing :-\ 14:55 And mapgen 14:56 rip tubehack #neverforget 14:57 What class is it Pork's playing that lets you "eat" the magic from items again? 14:58 <{Demo}> incantifier 14:58 incantifier 14:58 doh 14:59 Right, thank 15:00 incantifiers are cool 15:00 !who 15:00 FIQ: [hdf-us] SkydiveMike [nh363] klintos [nh363] porkman [ndnh] hothraxxa [tnnt] Hill [tnnt] malor [dnh] AntiVirus [evil] richards [un] | [hdf-eu] FIQ [fh] | [hdf-au] No current players 15:00 Certainly seem so 15:00 more like incan'tifiers 15:00 amirite 15:01 <@luxidream> more like 15:01 they're kinda OP 15:01 <@luxidream> overpowerintifiers 15:01 they've always been OP 15:01 when I started playing dnh 15:01 but fun 15:01 they did have some serious drawbacks 15:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha) killed the invisible Lugribossk of Ilsensine, on T:56468 15:01 Things don't have to be balanced! 15:01 then chris revised their pw system and broke them completely 15:01 role/race to role/race 15:01 I think they were nerfed afterwards 15:02 there was a period where they had like 15:02 10k pw 15:02 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 15:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 15:02 I think they still do 15:02 it was silly 15:02 Speak of the devil 15:02 oh? 15:02 look at my hdf-eu game 15:02 they are nerfed kinda 15:02 At level 14 or something they have about 4k, 5k 15:02 oh 15:02 Maybe slightly higher XL can't remember! 15:03 back in.. I think it was 3.7? 15:03 <{Demo}> go malor! 15:03 they started around 1.8k 15:03 like what I have atm 15:03 but they gained pw like other races did 15:03 which, for incantifier, basically meant they gained like nothing 15:03 There is literally no good way to stop the special case code from becoming spaghetti is there 15:03 Ah yeah that would suck fiq 15:03 well, would be more balanced maybe but! 15:03 but they had slowed hunger rate 15:04 I think it was 1 every 10 turns or so? 15:04 basically, they didn't really struggle for nutrition 15:04 unless you casted a lot 15:04 bubbles_nh: "becoming"? 15:04 the problem I had with this was that, besides wizards, other incantifiers basically couldn't cast 15:04 because nutrition was precious 15:04 until you got eota 15:05 then you basically had infinite pw 15:05 er, not pw 15:05 hunger 15:05 Chris_ANG eventually revised incantifiers to counteract this 15:05 but he went way too far in the other direction 15:05 incantifiers stopped having a slowed hunger rate 15:05 but! instead they had like 20k pw 15:06 so now they could cast with utter impunity 15:06 wew 15:06 it was silly 15:06 I can still cast with utter impunity 15:06 <{Demo}> yeah that was my fave incant 15:06 and due to how much "food" was in the mines 15:06 nutrition wasn't really a problem either 15:06 he eventually nerfed them again 15:06 into, what I think they are like atm? 15:06 start at like 2000 pw 15:07 <{Demo}> early game nutrition is a big boy 15:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana Hum Fem Cha), 7532588 points, T:56536, ascended, having saved the future https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/m/malor/dnethack/dumplog/1571984763.dnh.txt 15:07 <{Demo}> nice! congrats 15:07 <@malor> thanks. 15:07 gg malor 15:07 gz malor 15:07 jonadab: yes if I started from 0 now 15:07 <@Tone> Congrats malor 😄 15:07 <@malor> Anachrons have a hard challenge in the end game 🙂 15:07 gg malorrrr <3 15:07 <@malor> thanks bubbles. 15:08 oh and 3.7 incantifiers had some fun exploits 15:08 <@malor> thanks tone and FIQ 15:08 but that's a seperate problem really 15:08 <@malor> Demo, my mentor, I also thank you. 15:08 since those were easy enough to just patch independently 15:08 ... 15:08 Demontor 15:08 Dementor 15:08 !!! 15:08 <@malor> man that was stressful. I'm going for a bike ride now to calm myself down. 15:08 * FIQ zaps a patronus at bubbles_nh 15:08 anyway, one such exploit was polyself 15:09 Not at me, at him! 15:09 the game still used the old bizarre way 3.4.3 did polyself 15:09 <{Demo}> polyself made pw not tick down? 15:09 GG maloe 15:09 malor* 15:09 <{Demo}> oh. reset 15:09 when polymorphing into your original form 15:09 and pw could basically double 15:09 from a poly 15:09 <{Demo}> ohhh 15:10 still have no idea why 3.4.3 did that 15:10 it makes no sense and was ripe with blatant abuse 15:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:43004 15:10 there was also foocubi 15:10 who could drain your pw (and nutrition) to 0 15:10 or max it out 15:10 <@malor> My strategy for the quest was to become an Orc of the Ages of the Stars. However, I was taking so much automatic-telepathy-DPS that I couldn't do it and had to go as a human. Getting telepathy early nearly ended me. 15:11 <{Demo}> yeah that quest sucks with telepathy 15:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 381 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:43129 15:12 <{Demo}> if you threw on opposite alignment helm you could have lost it I think actually 15:12 idea 15:12 a level in a variant with mostly vanilla rules 15:12 with a lot of mind flayers 15:12 closed off 15:12 with telepathy damage 15:12 <{Demo}> no thanks 15:12 :3 15:13 give them a gaze attack and put them all behind iron bars in a big room 15:13 make a beholder vault in evilhack 15:13 Make an Umberhulk corridor 15:13 room with bars encircling a beholder 15:13 awake 15:14 Demo, how about implementing the wallet of perseus? 15:15 I've considered making a greed object property 15:15 for containers 15:15 it makes gold in them have no weight 15:15 but the bag is reluctant in letting you remove things 15:15 K2: wish me luck! I'm trying for a week no drinking, so I have some alcohol free wine... no idea how this is going to taste 15:15 from it 15:15 <@luxidream> sounds annoying and pointless 15:15 like it would have a chance to fail? 15:15 @luxidream there was a reason I never did ti 15:15 I figured it'd be really annoying UI-wise 15:15 *did it 15:16 There should be ATMs 15:16 where you can deposit/withdraw your zk 15:16 <@luxidream> zm* 15:16 YASI/EPI: Hungry bag of holding 15:16 zkmkmkm 15:16 because it encourages you to have 2 containers, one where you stash gold (assuming you bother with gold in first place) 15:16 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 152 points, T:1736, killed by a green mold 15:16 should be a dungeons of doom stock market so I can invest my zorkmids and get a returen 15:16 and where you'd just have to try multiple timese to get the gold out 15:16 when you wanted to actually use it 15:16 Wouldn't killing the inhabitants crash that market? 15:16 :B 15:16 FIQ: but you'd only use it when it's safe 15:16 which wouldn't pose a real problem 15:17 because you don't need gold in emergencies 15:17 bubbles_nh: exactly 15:17 FIQ: boh should take more turns to access the more items there are in it 15:17 bubbles_nh good luck... ? 15:17 :P 15:17 Thanks 15:17 Because you have to rummage around more in it 15:17 Then have an artifact one that behaves as currently 15:17 Competing with wallet of perseus 15:17 either more stuff, or faster access 15:18 or just have a property that does it 15:18 Sure, however it's implemented! 15:18 of retrieval or something 15:18 Yeah 15:18 of greater holding, of retrieval, of waterproofing 15:18 fiqhack already has oilskin as a property 15:18 EPI: cursed bag of tricks when applied will allow you to put an item in it thus destroying the item 15:18 on bags 15:19 Ah cool! 15:19 I don't think oilskin sacks (the base item) generates randomly in fiqhack anymore 15:19 pretty sure I ascended fiqhack with a oilskin boh 15:19 yeah 15:19 they aren't all that rare 15:19 they used to be too common 15:19 <@luxidream> wonder will always give you oilskin anyway 15:19 due to how player monsters item generation worked 15:20 but, yeah 15:20 you can trivially get it with wonder 15:20 I think that was the main reason I wanted to do greed actually 15:20 to have a bad property to give it 15:20 but I decided against greed in particular 15:20 so should do_apply switch on the object, or should the object_spec have a do_apply function pointer on it?:hmm: 15:20 perhaps something else 15:21 the former is the nethack approach 15:21 oh yes, foocubi can still kill you 15:21 the latter is what zapm does 15:21 benefits to both I think 15:21 mhm 15:21 <@luxidream> have holding also be a property 15:21 <@luxidream> and only have sack 15:21 and tricks 15:22 Do a lot of the nethack do_apply cases end up calling into a do__apply ? 15:22 yes and I think NetHack overdoes it 15:22 it makes sense for larger blocks of logic 15:22 but for functions that are like 3 lines 15:22 I think it's overkill 15:22 it's also inconsisten with how 99% of NetHack code does it 15:22 which just puts it in a switch statement 15:23 without calling external functions mostly 15:25 Ah ok so arti_hit would be all in the same switch 15:25 It's really the cases where you attack with artifact X but you happen to be wearing some item Y and there is a monster on the level with item Z 15:25 if all it does is add elemental damage, probably 15:25 maybe a bit much for stuff like magicbane 15:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bar Inc Mal Cha), 168 points, T:538, killed by Ms. Sneem, the shopkeeper 15:27 bubbles_nh: but it can become a bit much to use NetHack's approach sometimes 15:27 fiqhack's update_property has 1.3k lines of code 15:27 because of the fact that it uses the NetHack approach of doing stuff 15:27 switch statement with all cases with code for each case 15:27 FIQHack has 74 properties 15:28 some of them don't actually need to do anything extra (such as acid res) 15:28 but many do 15:28 I was tempted to do it like this: 15:28 each character has a list of "status-effects" 15:28 When you wield/pick-up/etc an item or potion it can add/remove to that list 15:29 So when you want to check for intersections you just check the status-effect list 15:29 at least fiqhack's solution gets rid of all potential bugs cropping up from NH3's numerous duplicate special cases 15:29 Which means if two items want to give the same effect 15:29 it just "works" 15:29 not sure if I'm explaining that very well? 15:29 But it means looping through that list every time, which maybe is fine I just don't know 15:29 bubbles_nh: that is basically what FIQHack's property rewrite does 15:30 it also means not having to add a new bit to the monster/character struct for each new resistance for example 15:30 in NH3 it's all a huge set of special cases 15:30 ok in fh they are just a "property" 15:30 so if an item confers drain resistance, you just generically check for that property 15:30 fiqhack's main disadvantage is that, due to the sheer amount of trinsics, update_property is a bit excessively long 15:30 (simple case) 15:30 beyond that it works rather well 15:30 one sec 15:31 i read fh source as well 15:31 will read* 15:31 https://github.com/FredrIQ/fiqhack/blob/development/libnethack/src/prop.c#L1088 15:31 this function 15:31 is called whenever you gain or lose a property 15:31 by putting on/off armor, etc 15:32 Ah gotcha 15:32 it's also called implicitly by stuff like set_property 15:32 You cache the output 15:32 that handles intrinsics 15:32 I cache trinsics purely for performance reasons 15:32 trinsic checking was the slowest operation in the game 15:32 it's not really relevant to what I am doing otherwise code-wise 15:33 So are there any "special" item interactions in fh that I can look at? 15:33 Does mmom still boost spell damage, e.g.? 15:34 ahh, those remain special cases 15:34 because adding trinsics for each one would lead to a lot of fringe trinsics 15:34 FIQHack just uses m_carrying_artifact(mon, ART_MASTER_KEY_OF_THIEVERY) etc 15:34 for those 15:34 this is used, for example, for trap protection 15:34 from MKoT 15:34 *nods* 15:35 I was just looking for the key in the source \o/ 15:35 It's fine and works well, I just wonder if there is some way to make the item code local to the item 15:35 but i don't think there is, cleanly 15:35 Add hooks for every single event that calls through to the items 15:35 But that would suck bigtime 15:35 I think 15:35 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Swn Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:876 15:35 you'd have to design a completely different kind of engine to NetHack 15:35 it's not impossible 15:36 but it'd be.. different 15:36 I'm not sure it would be any better though 15:36 and by better I mean from a code maintenance/ease of adding new stuff perspective 15:36 pokémon showdown uses an event-driven system 15:36 IME it makes the code rather hard to understand unless you're very comfortable with the programming language used (and I'm not sure if that would help much) 15:37 for example, a while back I was trying to figure out how pokémon showdown sorts its end-turn things 15:37 Yeah ordering would be scary 15:37 things like when certain statuses end and such 15:37 I was unable to figure out how it does it 15:37 *nods* 15:38 this is the main reason whenever I report bugs in the engine, I don't even try to make a PR for it 15:38 I simply don't understand the code well enough for it 15:39 it runs on magic 15:39 that's as far as I go :P 15:56 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 16:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hekik (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased rustproof +2 helm of brilliance", on T:37330 16:09 how are you supposed to kill DNH weeping angels# 16:11 Their AC drops to reasonable levels (AC -5) when they're moving, so if you blindfold yourself you can fight them. However, unless you have drain resistance this is probably not a good idea, so you should just go around the rooms they're in. 16:11 Chris_ANG: Messages from bubbles_nh have been forwarded to you privately. 16:14 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26 Porkman: avoid them! 16:26 Unless you get unlucky on fire plane 16:26 then kill them!!! 16:27 i am down on to the castle 16:27 and i still havent found a lizard 16:27 go figure 16:32 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fireproof greased +3 tie-dye shirt of shambhala", on T:18771 16:32 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fireproof greased +3 grandmaster's robe", on T:18772 16:32 now it's time for some foolishness! 16:36 what was the formula for artiwishing in DNH? 16:36 wonder if i could try get gauntlets of spell power 16:37 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed magic marker", on T:18996 16:37 Have you done neutral quesT? 16:37 You can only get 3 wishes 16:37 artiwishes 16:37 !who 16:37 jonathanhanes: [hdf-us] SkydiveMike [nh363] oh6 [nh363] Hekik [nh363] porkman [ndnh] mosen [tnnt] Luxidream [tnnt] shadowcat [tnnt] luxor [slshm] Grouchy [evil] AntiVirus [evil] | [hdf-eu] thorsb [tnnt] AlbertB [tnnt] HarmathZsolt [tnnt] | [hdf-au] No current players 16:37 1 at start, 1 from castle throne, 1 from priests of the unknown god 16:38 (sorry if spoliers) 16:38 eh 16:38 As in, eligible for 3 wishes 16:38 how do you mean 16:38 You can only wish for three artifacts total 16:38 when's that changed? 16:38 I think the most recent version 16:38 {Demo}: rikersan? 16:38 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fireproof greased +3 gauntlets of spell power", on T:18999 16:39 ndnh might be diffdiff though 16:41 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:44 @luxidream wow, gehennom corridor mazes in cursesgraphics look... weird 16:44 ibmgraphics wouldn't look much better, but still 16:45 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:45 <@luxidream> looks fine to me? 16:45 <@luxidream> what does it look like to you 16:45 no I don't mean display errors 16:45 I just mean that it looks weird 16:46 the corridors look like walls 16:46 as if they should be walls, I mean 16:46 with the strong shade symbol 16:46 also you play fast lol 16:48 I want luxidream to stream nethack with the camera pointed at his keyboard :P 16:48 Demo, i need help please 16:48 I can't see my full status bar in NDNH 16:48 so i dont know when i am confused or such 16:50 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:50 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 16:52 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 16:53 [hdf-us] [nh363] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:112058 16:54 <@luxidream> lol that's my job :p 16:57 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:77321 16:58 oh dang grouchy's on astral 16:59 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) put Death down for a little nap, on T:77333 17:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) averted death, on T:77343 17:02 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 17:06 !lotg grouchy 17:06 May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, grouchy! 17:12 <@malor> !wh 17:12 <@malor> !who 17:12 @malor: [hdf-us] oh6 [nh363] Hekik [nh363] porkman [ndnh] mosen [tnnt] Luxidream [tnnt] luxor [slshm] dragonspeaker [dnh] AntiVirus [evil] richards [un] | [hdf-eu] spontiff [nh363] FIQ [tnnt] AlbertB [tnnt] HarmathZsolt [tnnt] | [hdf-au] No current players 17:15 For some reason I thought eating rodney's corpse would kill you 17:18 gz luxi 17:18 <@luxidream> gg 17:18 <@luxidream> nah it gives teleport control 17:18 <@luxidream> it was worth a shot 17:23 Yeah, it gives intrinsics 17:23 Neat thing to come across while wiki editing 17:23 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) averted death, on T:77347 17:24 average ascension time 2h 7m 37s 17:24 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:24 wanna go a little faster? 17:24 I have a bad feeling about grouchy's game 17:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:64129 17:26 <@luxidream> pretty clean 👌 17:26 hmmm 17:26 !setmintc 17:26 FIQ: [hdf-au][hdf-eu][hdf-us] Min reported turncount for fiq removed. 17:27 ty 17:28 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 0 points, T:1382, died of starvation 17:28 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 17:29 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fireproof greased +3 luckstone", on T:20672 17:29 fireproof luckstone hmmm 17:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Pri Elf Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed fixed +3 shield of reflection", on T:15000 17:33 greased luckstone is my favorite hotrod 17:33 thinking emoji 17:34 !who 17:34 jonathanhanes: [hdf-us] oh6 [nh363] spleen [nh363] Hekik [nh363] porkman [ndnh] mosen [tnnt] luxor [slshm] dragonspeaker [dnh] AntiVirus [evil] richards [un] | [hdf-eu] spontiff [nh363] AlbertB [tnnt] HarmathZsolt [tnnt] | [hdf-au] No current players 17:34 [hdf-us] [un] richards (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 20796 points, T:9470, killed by an ettin mummy 17:38 @luxidream you should defeat Tariru's winstreak :P 17:38 it's 39 or something 17:38 nah it's higher than that 17:38 and I'm not good enough to do that 17:39 the best I ever did was some NH4 binge where I streaked 9 games in 4 days 17:39 huh 17:39 he made a new streak 17:39 afaik he had a previous one which was around 39ish 17:39 killed by a dwarf 17:39 It's hard to make a long streak. Something eventually gets you. 17:39 it's 61 17:40 W1B 5DF 17:40 -!- bubbles_nh has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:41 hmm yeah, no earlier streak 17:41 well, no earlier *notable* streak at least 17:41 hmm 17:41 he stopped playing after junethack 2018 17:41 -!- bubbles_nh has joined #hardfought 17:41 not a single game since 17:41 well, he conquered nethack in 2018 17:41 beating slex 17:41 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 3318 points, T:2426, killed by a wax golem 17:42 maybe he retired while still on top 17:42 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 0 points, T:8, killed by a water moccasin 17:42 luxidream: yeah 17:43 Is there a good canonical video or ttyrec of one of these super-fast ascensions? 17:43 can't really beat what he accomplished during junethack 2018 17:43 kotw including slex 17:43 not a single junethack loss 17:43 It usually takes me 6-12 hours. 17:43 ascending every single variant, including some he hadn't even played 17:44 BEHiker91W: Most of luxidream's ascensions probably qualify. 17:44 huh, I'm a bit surprised that he only has a single nethack4 game overall 17:44 Wait. Not a single loss? I guess he really didn't want his possessions identified. 17:44 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 64 points, T:260, killed by a rabbit 17:45 he played 1 nh4, spork, grunt, fh, xnh, splice game 17:46 BEHiker91W: don't manually explore gehennom 17:46 he had 2 4k games, the one other game besides junethack2018 being a 2015 game 17:46 where a soldier ant killed him, apparently 17:46 hmm 17:46 when did he start playing? 17:46 (go team a!) 17:46 I kinda want to check the tttyrecs of his junethack variant games 17:46 in 2018 17:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed rustproof +2 frost brand", on T:849 17:46 see how a pro conquers every single variant, with all of their various differences 17:46 on first try 17:47 *ttyrecs 17:47 luxidream: How do you get back up then with "oY? 17:47 use magic mapping 17:47 Oh. 17:47 the key phrase is "manually explore" 17:47 Lots of scrolls. 17:48 magic map every other level, dig corridors between the stairs 17:48 he definitely took variant rules into account and didn't merely use a tried and true universal strat 17:48 I feel like there's some kind of mysterious force in my games that doesn't respect the stairs. 17:49 FIQ: he was well spoiled, especially on slex 17:49 he = terrirur? 17:49 his asc kit in grunt has dragonhide stuff and YSDM, he used blue DSM in fh 17:49 Tariru 17:50 luxidream: I don't think you can win slex unspoiled 17:50 even if you have nethack vanilla fully spoiled 17:50 blue dsm master race 17:50 it, alongside dnh and to a lesser extent grunt, are probably the major ones where you probably want variant-specific spoilers 17:50 it obviously helps everywhere, but it helps there in particular 17:50 well he knows how to play dnh lol 17:51 dnh is the one variant besides vanilla he has significant play on 17:51 so yeah 17:51 :P 17:52 I like this guy's fiqhack kit https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/a/anemoi/fiqhack/dumplog/2019-05-23%2002%3A00%3A54%2C%20kaikias-Rog-Hum-Mal-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 17:52 he polymorphed on the altar 17:53 hm yeah, looks like it 17:53 -!- hdf-guest-24 has joined #hardfought 17:54 -!- scj643 has joined #hardfought 17:54 BEHiker91W: other tips are to use the travel command (_) a lot and target stairs and dungeon features 17:54 Hello 17:54 Hello scj643, Welcome to #hardfought 17:54 control+move is also helpful, though inefficient, for exploring 17:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 2338 points, T:1939, killed by a dwarf lord 17:55 -!- hdf-guest-24 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01 hello scj643 18:02 lol I was looking through ascension kits in fiqhack to see body armor usage 18:02 I found this: y - a blessed +4 cloak of invisibility, stealth, fire resistance and drain resistance (being worn) 18:02 -!- scj643 has left #hardfought 18:02 not bad 18:02 <@scj643> I'm on discord so why use quassel 18:03 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 3577 points, T:2943, killed by a Woodland-elf 18:04 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/e5MPSfVgVRTe6MI5vBXuvi3mrQf4TXhGHoPfRIZTiqo/https/i.snag.gy/KcTQmA.jpg?width=1443&height=605 18:04 5 properties 18:04 not as good though 18:05 I'd call those gloves "trouble magnets" 18:05 Did "Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 zorkmids." change in 3.6 or something? 18:05 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought 18:05 especially if I read right and they have aggravate monsters on them 18:05 (no body armor):1 CPM:2 black:4 blue:12 (1 "of reflection) gray:18 green:1 red:1 silver:23 yellow:1 18:05 is what people have used in fiqhack 18:05 aggravate is pretty irrelevant 18:05 it does more in fiqhack 18:05 reverse monster detection 18:06 but it's still not that major 18:06 how many of those blues were mine 18:06 that one is grunt though (the link) 18:06 luxidream: plenty 18:06 dyna 18:06 oh no, def. not a big deal 18:06 ahh 18:06 fair 18:06 just fitting with searching/warning 18:07 I remember in 3.4.3 it was impossible to get that message except via autopickup hilarity 18:07 luxidream: not all of them was yours, you used some other colors at first 18:07 I 18:07 you were the one person who tried green 18:07 um 18:07 holy shit 18:07 ok 18:07 you also have a couple of silver 18:07 would you guys 18:07 believe 18:08 I think I got to flex on pestilence 18:08 that there's been NO FUCKING SINKS this entire game? 18:08 not a single one 18:08 and a CPM, no less 18:08 on minehack 18:08 I'm screaming what are the odds on that 18:08 minehack: now for PS4 18:08 ? 18:08 yeah 18:09 not sure why I did that but okay 18:09 yeahheh 18:09 *heh 18:09 Umby: unlikely things happen in nethack 18:10 be thankful there are altars in your dungeon at least 18:11 +4 hard shoes :) 18:11 its the little things 18:11 it's extra stupid since I need to find a teleport control ring 18:12 CPM:1 black:1 blue:7 gray:2 green:1 silver:6 18:12 luxidream's DSM choices 18:12 blue just barely outranks silver in usage 18:12 probably because wizard 18:12 haste self? 18:12 no because I just wished for silver as a default early on 18:12 ah 18:12 fair 18:12 and because blue didn't do anything for a while 18:13 heh 18:13 I think silver might still be the better DSM to have early 18:13 in case you get an early-game wish 18:13 but idk 18:14 no 18:14 because you just run into skilled+ wands and die anyway 18:14 fair 18:14 also being fast is universally good 18:14 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 18:14 never a place where it doesn't help 18:14 <{Demo}> fast 18:14 very fast 18:15 luxidream: does reflection need a buff? 18:15 nyooom 18:15 I don't think it does 18:15 but I'm not sure 18:15 <@scj643> This channel is really active 18:16 no, I think skilled+ wands create explosions instead of using rays primarily 18:16 if so I was thinking just make skilled (but not expert+) explosions due to reflection halve explosion damage 18:16 so it still provides some measure of protection 18:16 that actually isn't a bad idea 18:16 but it might be too strong again then 18:16 like vanilla 18:16 hm 18:16 there was a reason the change was done 18:16 when do you start encountering skilled wand users 18:16 I used to have a list of skilled wand users 18:16 difficulty-wise 18:17 that's a decent base to work from, at least 18:17 {Demo}: riker malor early wish as a dwarf valk 18:17 Premium heart? 18:18 so you get the amulet of reflection shortly after sokoban 18:18 I think soldiers, elf-lords, trolls and the like are fair game at that point 18:18 so reflection doesn't really have a niche 18:20 Skilled: Winged gargoyle, master mind flayer, Angel, ki-rin, Kop Kaptain, demilich, master lich, ogre king, Olog-hai, vampire lord, Vlad, Nazgul, Elvenking, aligned priest, soldier, sergeant, lieutnant, captain, watchman, Medusa, nalfeshnee, pit fiend, sandestin, salamander, archeologist, knight, ranger, rogue, samurai, valkyrie, Lord Carnarvon, King Arthur, Orion, Master of Thieves, Lord Sato, Twoflower, 18:20 Norn, Scorpius, Master Assassin, Lord Surtur, abbot, acolyte, guide, apprentice 18:20 all skilled wand users 18:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] kincle (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:7582 18:21 less than I thought 18:22 basically I wanted to restrict it to midgame "lords" and lategame everything, more or less 18:22 I guess the dangerous ones are soldiers, and winged gargoyles are already fairly deadly 18:22 (lategame lords have expert, midgame regulars generally have basic) 18:24 I was looking for fourk's chart 18:24 but apparently jonadab's website is no longer online 18:24 making the Yendorian Army skilled was very much deliberate even if the basic type appears somewhat early, because they're supposed to be competent fighters 18:24 and wands are basically NetHack's guns 18:24 so a flavor-based buff 18:24 v. sensible 18:25 they're the outliers in the list above 18:25 besides that, everything is pretty much according to depth 18:25 there's a certain amount of fun in them being outmatched schlubs for most of my characters 18:25 I considered making captains expert (being the lord of his kind), but that'd give expert much too early 18:25 @luxidream: I can fix that, now that I'm home. 18:25 One moment. 18:25 since captains can show up really early 18:26 save like, lieutenants/captains 18:26 in barracks 18:26 hi jonadab 18:26 <@malor> If neutral then cloak of the unheld one Otherwise I prefer magic resist initially on the strong melee classes 18:26 watch captains are expert even if they're captain-grade otherwise, since they only become a problem if you anger the Watch 18:26 <@malor> Because your damage is good enough. You want 25 ST but you won’t die without it. Getting early magic resist can win you games 18:27 titans are the earliest monster with expert wands 18:27 which goes along with their other unusually high strength for their depth 18:27 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 18:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 18:27 luxidream: Try now. 18:27 it's good 18:27 <@malor> I like getting 25ST when playing a weak melee class only. Otherwise I won’t wish for that all game. Also if you are a dedicated spell caster then gauntlets of spell power are a first wish 18:27 jonadab might have changed stuff, but I don't think he did (except perhaps add wand skill to new 4k monsters) 18:28 so whatever 4k has as wand skill probably also applies to fh monsters 18:28 funny that giant mimics have expert wand skill 18:29 err, skilled 18:29 hmm 18:29 they don't in fh 18:29 maybe they have hands in 4k? 18:29 and thus would be eligible for wand skill 18:29 (I'd probably have made them basic in that case, though) 18:30 luxidream: link 18:30 http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/nethack-stuff/spoilers-fourk/4.3.0.4/monster-spoiler.html 18:30 ty 18:30 Late game do i want to 2h or 1h + shield? 18:31 what role? 18:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Pir Dro Fem Cha), 22916 points, T:8096, killed by an orc-captain 18:31 isn't the answer to that always 2h 18:31 if youcan 18:31 assuming the player is around level 10 after completing soko and the mines 18:31 +space 18:31 dnh 18:31 lawful dwarf valk 18:31 but I can go silver dragon scale mail shield 18:31 twohand just like FIQ says 18:32 Which gives enhanced refl 18:32 well, that I have no idea about 18:32 luxidream: hmm, there is however a concern that might be worth addressing 18:32 10% of wands are blessed 18:32 this means skill elevation 18:32 should I change this? 18:32 to never generate blessed 18:33 bubbles_nh: dnh? 18:33 I would say less variance is better 18:33 <@rikersan> bubbles: valk? eh depends on the artis you have 18:33 <@rikersan> I'd probably end up shield 18:34 wow somehow I forgot that CM wands in vanilla have 11-15 charges 18:34 fiq yeah dnh, sorry 18:34 riker no artis, but I have a candle and 2x magic lamps 18:34 no idea how long fh CM wands (summoning) has had 4-8, it was changed rather quickly 18:34 after AI revision 18:34 in vanilla you can dodge wands with AC even lacking reflection 18:34 the earliest CM nerf I did 18:34 So was tempted to do blue dsm + silver shield + cloak mres 18:34 Or something like that 18:34 the wands balance patch prevents you from doing so 18:34 <@rikersan> if you're doing dsm I'd go for orange probably? 18:35 luxidream: because in vanilla the dodge is far too realible 18:35 perhaps I nerfed it too much in the other direction 18:35 <@rikersan> also what chaos do you have? 18:35 For the free action 18:35 what is the calculation? 18:35 Not sure yet, i'll hold off until then 18:35 for wand to-hit 18:35 Is premium heart a solid first arti for me I guess? 18:35 <@rikersan> if you have either 1 or 3 you'll get slotless MR so a cloak can be displacemnt, protection 18:35 <@rikersan> no lmao 18:35 <@rikersan> not at all 18:35 <@rikersan> dwarven? 18:35 <@rikersan> can you get skill in axe as a valk? i don't remember 18:36 besides striking, which is just a force bolt beam 18:36 yeah expert 18:36 <@rikersan> axe of the dwarvish lords is quite good, and it's throwable (which is fun) 18:36 <@rikersan> 2x battleaxe 18:36 Currently using battle axe I found 18:36 umm 18:37 Not limited moon? 18:37 unless I'm reading this completely wrong 18:37 <@rikersan> no it's bad now 18:37 <@rikersan> drains 3 pw per hi 18:37 <@rikersan> and scales by pw percentage 18:37 Ah lame 18:37 Booo 18:37 <@rikersan> yes 18:37 the accuracy of rays depends to some extent on your skill with the kind of ray used 18:37 <@rikersan> I mean for orc barb you can still use it 18:37 I thought valk were fine with weapons? 18:37 <@rikersan> keep chugging cursed gain energy or zapping cancellation at yourself while naked 18:38 in vanilla, I mean 18:38 whether or not you actually were the one using the ray 18:38 Ah lol 18:38 <@rikersan> (naked = nothing in your invent to cancel yourself) 18:38 oh wait, nvm, figured it out 18:38 <@rikersan> if you're willing to permanently hve 0/0 pw go for it lmao 18:38 <@rikersan> (but not until you do that, probably?) 18:38 So I should take axe to higher 18:38 Sorry, train axe to expert 18:38 <@rikersan> I mean if you want to do dwarvish lords / limited moon 18:38 <@rikersan> but I mean excalibur is probably better? 18:39 <@rikersan> find a barrow wight with a golden long sword 18:39 <@rikersan> gold adds d20 holy to the 3d7 holy from excalibur 18:39 #en 18:39 wrong window 18:39 <@rikersan> wrong window 18:39 <@rikersan> :) 18:39 Ok so I'll leave axe at basic for the mo-mo 18:39 <@rikersan> if you find multiple, bless them all and formally ID (to see if any of them are "lesser holy") 18:40 <@rikersan> yeah probably 18:40 In which case what arti to wish for? 18:40 <@rikersan> hm 18:40 <@rikersan> orb of fate is half phys right 18:40 <@rikersan> also I forgot - rod of seven parts is an option as well since you can get exp spear (?) and you're lawful 18:40 luxidream: 95% of the time, AC must be more than a rnd(10) check. The other 5%, it does something else, not really sure what 18:40 <@rikersan> also sol valtiva isn't bad either 18:40 in vanilla 18:41 sol valt is 2h right? 18:41 <@rikersan> yep it's a two handed obsidian sword 18:41 oh no, I'm reading this completely wrong 18:41 one sec 18:42 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42 there's never an AC where you *can't* be hit by wands 18:42 Just exponentially lowered chances 18:43 <@rikersan> bubbles: I'd hold off on arti wishes just yet. i'd see what chaos you have first 18:43 yep 18:43 <@rikersan> helping hand is a good utility artifact but it's probably not worth it until you've got a kit together 18:43 tryingto clear big room 18:43 but long w is horrible 18:44 Yeah I defo get helping hand later 18:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non), 0 points, T:82, killed by a black pudding, while praying 18:45 luxidream: http://sprunge.us/gLoNOW 18:45 this appears to be unchanged in fiqhack, btw 18:46 well 18:46 the wands balance patch would give a skill bonus 18:46 correct? 18:47 the wand rebalance only gives a MR offense bonus 18:47 it does not change accuracy of rays 18:48 oh, the skill bonus is for the player casting fireball or magic missile? 18:48 it should probably give a skill bonus similar to spells 18:48 for players 18:48 for example 18:48 I don't know why this is unchanged 18:48 either way, it's not a major difference I think in practice 18:49 it means slightly higher accuracy for skilled+ users and slightly lower for unskilled 18:49 rikersan chaos chaos quest 18:49 Oh maybe not 18:50 luxidream: that's what it does right now, yes 18:50 well, unskilled-basic fireball 18:50 and cone of cold 18:50 any magic missile, sleep and finger of death 18:50 those spells 18:50 <@rikersan> bubbles: that means nothing to me 18:50 <@rikersan> you mean the ff one? 18:50 -!- hdf-guest-43 has joined #hardfought 18:51 rikersan i have the morder one 18:51 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51 and yes chaos chaos is the ff one but I was wrong, it's the mordor one 18:52 <@rikersan> yeah you get slotless MR from that 18:52 <@rikersan> and lmao you just saw the stairs and went to that? lol 18:52 <@malor> finally hit "chaos 3" 18:52 -!- hdf-guest-43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52 <@rikersan> that's interesting 18:52 <@rikersan> your best wep may be a large silver orcrist then 18:52 let's see how reliable it is in practice 18:53 <@rikersan> 2x vs demons, silver, two-handed elven broadsword (deals up to 2x vs demons if you hit a bunch in a row too) 18:53 Is there a guarnateed large silver? 18:53 [hdf-us] [nh363] kincle (Val Dwa Fem Law), 25355 points, T:9928, killed by a mastodon 18:53 I have to kill a bunch to get the extra 2x 18:54 malor love chaos3 18:54 it's creepy 18:54 and I hate it 18:54 but it's great 18:54 <@rikersan> yes bubbles 18:54 <@rikersan> you can start clearing it now probabl 18:54 I found a mithril 2h 18:54 <@rikersan> you can def get the broadsword right now 18:54 <@rikersan> that's good, it's also wrathful (2x counter thingy) 18:54 off an elf or the floor? 18:54 <@rikersan> neither 18:54 <@rikersan> ford guardian 18:54 <@rikersan> he's the first boss, no key, and he's hella easy 18:55 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 18:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 18:55 aosdict: isn't uhitm/mhitm/mhitu split fun 18:55 just saw https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/issues/240 18:55 :P 18:55 Ah righto 18:57 Gosh I love the uhitm/mhitm/mhitu split 18:57 AntiGulp: Messages from LarienTelrunya and FIQ have been forwarded to you privately. 18:57 writing three slightly different variations of the same code is FUN 18:58 <@rikersan> do what chris did 18:58 <@rikersan> just don't :) 18:58 AntiGulp: I reduced it a bit in fiqhack longterm 18:58 <@rikersan> it's a really good thing none of the dnh regulars really polyself much 18:58 I created damage() 18:58 which is used by both mhitu and mhitm 18:58 <@rikersan> since that would crash the game very quick 18:58 ooooh crap 18:58 <@rikersan> RIP bubbles 18:58 Oh no 18:58 so when I make new kinds of attacks 18:58 I only have to make 2 copies instead of 3 18:59 there was a reason I didn't do the same for uhitm, I don't remember the exact one 18:59 I'm not happy with my dohit at the moment 18:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) averted death, on T:16411 18:59 It has a load of rubbish in it with if (!attacker.isplayer) pline... 18:59 All the logic is identical 19:00 But the messaging is differnt and it irks me 19:00 Is this in tubhack, bubbles? 19:00 yeah 19:01 I am going to change it so attack messages are just structs that get appended to a queue 19:01 And then at the end of the turn I'll render them to strings 19:01 bubbles_nh: that is easily the biggest reason fiqhack does if (mon == &youmonst) atm 19:01 Then I can do stuff like merge identical messages 19:01 I don't like it either 19:01 Yep 19:01 but there are some reductions of redundnacy 19:01 *redundancy 19:01 I have an "if we can see the attack" check every time 19:02 but the actual messages are (usually) not duplicated 19:02 I don't think it's possible to get rid of it entirely, but ideally I want all that to be in the message generator, not int he logic 19:02 AntiGulp: that yeah was to you! 19:03 NetHack has various helper functions for grammar 19:03 yep, but messages are still constructed at the site of the logic 19:03 in fiqhack (but not vanilla for some reason), Monnam and mon_nam returns a monster's name (the former with an uppercase first letter) 19:03 nethack code naming 3 19:03 <3 19:03 but replaces players with You/you 19:03 Ah yeah 19:03 (that is the fiqhack-only part) 19:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3362 19:04 NH4 also has M_verbs and m_verbs 19:04 I think in the hit code it's a bit strange, because "The at " 19:04 which takes 2 arguments and possibly messes with the verb 19:04 !tell LarienTelrunya I don’t have a good way to host screenshots right now, but it looks exactly like the 3.6.x #enhance menu. The flag I added just allows for some nicer UI on section headers. 19:04 LarienTelrunya shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, AntiGulp. 19:04 Whereas for the player it is 19:04 on 3rd person vs 2nd person 19:05 between gnomish wizards and fire ants....rock and hard place 19:05 bubbles_nh: lol speaking of function names 19:06 have you seen do_name.c 19:06 there is like 19:06 no consistency whatsoever 19:06 Oh god do_name.c is horrifying 19:06 Every time I go in there I end up breaking something unrelated because everything references something else. 19:07 if you think that's bad 19:07 you should see the wish code 19:07 <@rikersan> it's awful 19:07 Oh trust me, I’ve worked with the wish parser 19:07 I know 19:07 <@rikersan> seriously like tokenizers exist guys 19:07 I had to mess with it for object properties a while back 19:07 wish parser rewrite is on my list of 'projects I would be happy to do as a vanilla patch if there was any indicator of devteam interest' 19:07 and to this day I still think it has some subtle bugs 19:07 thankfully object properties is restricted to wizmode 19:07 so I don't need to care too much 19:08 isn't that the one which is like 'can of pringles' gets parsed as 'ring' because it has that substring in it? :hmm: 19:08 bubbles_nh: that is the one 19:08 The problem is that wish parser is essentially a million special cases all stacked on top of each other, like a card tower on a warm stick of butter. 19:08 mmm butter 19:09 AntiGulp: it was probably pretty sane when it was first created 19:09 then things added up 19:09 FIQ: That’s my guess 19:10 aosdict: you could do it as a patch for variants 19:10 I suppose I should say: hey, paxed or bhaak, would you accept a wish parser rewrite vanilla patch that doesn't change any actual behavior? 19:10 and hope vanilla merges it eventually in a few years 19:10 if you're lucky 19:10 FIQ: that isn't worth it 19:10 but if someone said they'd merge it if I wrote it, great 19:10 "doesn't change any actual behaviour" 19:11 you still want the weird quirks of the current one? 19:11 such as figuring of a cave spider being a ring 19:11 if you want to replicate all quirks, I don't think you'll gain much from a rewrite 19:11 if you want to replicate all the mostly sane quirks, fair enough 19:11 OK, doesn't change any sensible wish behavior not accounting for typos or silly substring or fruit parsing 19:12 Broke: Fixing the wish parser. Woke: Adding a new item type, “figurings.” 19:12 aosdict: I think it might be easier to write a parser that reads right to left 19:12 the most important stuff is usually there anyway 19:13 Figuring of a throne archon - apply: sit down for 10 turns to figure things out 19:14 what is a throne archon anyway 19:14 what does throne mean here 19:14 Oh sorry it's roughly an archon but in dnh 19:14 <@rikersan> the dudes who are the strongest 19:14 There are other types of archons too 19:14 I am sorry I only speak in dnh 19:14 Blame Chris_ANG 19:14 haha 19:14 <@rikersan> there's justice, something, something, trumpet (have trumpets, the trumpets summon monsters, they SUCK), throne archons 19:15 <@rikersan> justice are weaker / equal to Angels but slow, and throne are a bit stronger than vanilla archons 19:15 <@rikersan> actually they migth just be standard vnailla ones 19:16 trumpet archons 19:16 toot 19:16 why do they suck 19:16 If they’re anything like herald archons in splice (which also toot trumpets) it’s because regular archons already summon tons of monsters 19:17 https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Throne_archon 19:17 <@rikersan> they do NOTHING but summon 19:17 <@rikersan> like, that's their only attack 19:17 >They also despised combat, perhaps more than even other archons, and preferred to allow their sword archons to fight for them.[2][4] 19:17 <@rikersan> yeah throne are hella rare 19:17 <@rikersan> I've never seen them except on the planes and as pets 19:17 they also hated being called to the material plane 19:17 ergo, they ought to spawn hostile if called from a figurine 19:17 no matter the BUC 19:18 :P 19:18 Like all archons, thrones could speak and understand all spoken languages[1][7] and could telepathically communicate with any being.[1][7] They could teleport anywhere that they wanted without a chance of failure 19:18 do they have telepathy and teleportitis in dnh 19:18 <@rikersan> don't think so 19:19 rip 19:19 <@rikersan> I mean I'm pretty sure most of dnh's high level extraplanars fulfill those criteria 19:19 <@rikersan> have you seen uvuudaum? those shits are bitches 19:19 <@rikersan> @d?uvuudaum 19:19 uvuudaum (U) | Lvl: 19 | Diff: 26 | Spd: 16 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 80 | Generates: dungeons | AC: -50 | Attacks: 3d12 reach head-spike, 2d6 weapon physical, 2d6 weapon physical, 2d4 claw physical, 2d4 claw physical, 0d0 gaze confuse | Alignment: 0 | Flags: flies, phases, breathless, thick hide, regenerates, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker, infravisible 19:19 ugh 19:19 @d?Eternal drow matron 19:19 No such monster. 19:19 immunity to petrification, lightning, poison resistant (but not immune?), unaffected by mundane weaons 19:19 Lies 19:19 @d?throne archon 19:19 No such monster. 19:19 Wait, Chris actually added uvuudaums??? 19:19 pff 19:19 AntiGulp: they're old 19:20 in dnh 19:20 <@rikersan> @d?dokkalfar eternal matriarch 19:20 dokkalfar eternal matriarch (L) | Lvl: 30 | Diff: 39 | Spd: 13 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison petrification drain | Confers: fire cold | MR: 100 | Generates: dungeons | AC: -8 | Attacks: 6d8 weapon disenchant, 6d8 weapon disenchant, 4d6 touch vampire-drain, 4d6 touch cold, 6d6 cast spell | Alignment: -15 | Flags: genocidable, tunnels, breathless, regenerates, poisonous, nopoly, undead 19:20 There we go 19:20 They are pretty terrifying 19:20 <@rikersan> yes 19:20 like, really old 19:20 My D&D 3.5 fangirl heart is having feelings 19:20 do it anti 19:20 <@rikersan> yeah they're the reason dnh exists 19:20 AntiGulp: you should play dnh then 19:20 <@rikersan> no joke 19:20 it has a lot of D&D stuff 19:20 accept them into your heart 19:20 them = dnh 19:20 dnh means like 19:20 D&D nethack 19:20 or something 19:20 riker you mean eternal matriarchs are, or the uvuudaum? 19:20 a lot of D&D 3.5 stuff, that is 19:20 <@rikersan> uvuudaums 19:20 <@rikersan> they literally are, I can try to find the convo 19:21 <@rikersan> dungeons and extraterrestrials added hack I think 19:21 I feel like it says something about me that I know exactly what an uvuudaum is without looking it up 19:21 It says you know what an uvuudaum is. 19:21 *nods* 19:21 they do bad things on the asc run 19:21 <@rikersan> > <@chris_ANG> dNethack is more properly capitalized dNetHack (not that I ever do it right), and stands for Dungeons and Extra Terrestrials Hack, or DnETHack. 19:21 <@rikersan> they do AWFUL things on any run if you piss them off 19:21 <@rikersan> luckily they're only hostile for ana in the quest and asc run 19:21 <@rikersan> but you don't want to have confilct around them I think 19:21 hmm 19:22 iirc they used to be hostile to everyone 19:22 <@rikersan> headspikes do hella damage but also are vorpalish 19:22 but it sounds like they were made worse 19:22 <@rikersan> yeah I think so 19:22 than they used to be 19:22 <@rikersan> their spells are god awful 19:22 <@rikersan> like no joke the base damage is like 9d16 or something stupid 19:22 jeez 19:22 dread seraphs 19:22 What are the other annoying shadow spike things? 19:22 are kinda neat 19:22 <@rikersan> *19d6 19:22 Z = RUNNNNN 19:22 <@rikersan> worse :) 19:22 <@rikersan> also they have literally intrinsic lifesaving and heal 25 hp per turn 19:22 what 19:22 how do you kill them then 19:22 You don't 19:22 You rubn 19:22 ah 19:22 ok 19:22 <@rikersan> it can only activate once every 34 turns 19:23 They are ONLY awake after you get the amulet 19:23 or poly 19:23 into green slime 19:23 <@rikersan> but they can also summon clones 19:23 <@rikersan> which last for like 15-20 I think before dissapearing 19:23 <@rikersan> nope 19:23 <@rikersan> they have intrinsic MR 19:23 @d?Dread Seraph 19:23 dread seraph (Z) | Lvl: 54 | Diff: 27 | Spd: 16 | Res: cold sleep disintegrate poison petrification drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 125 | Generates: dungeons | AC: -10 | Attacks: 8d8 reach physical, 8d8 reach physical | Alignment: 20 | Flags: flies, breathless, mindless, regenerates, seeinvis, teleports, poisonous, nopoly, undead 19:23 MR does not work on sliming 19:23 <@rikersan> oh, like self poly? don't know 19:23 <@rikersan> I thought you meant polying htem 19:23 ^ those were new in my last serious dnh runs 19:23 <@rikersan> and also they have passive confusion (gaze) 19:23 <@rikersan> so good luck trying to cast spells 19:23 interesting and dangerous 19:23 I liked them 19:23 <@rikersan> they're cool 19:24 I stopped playing on a regular basis shortly after 19:24 <@rikersan> my main gripe is you never fight them if you're not unlucky 19:24 <@rikersan> like you can just keep walking 19:24 I think that's a good thing 19:24 <@rikersan> no reason to actually stop and fight 19:24 (dread seraphs didn't have anything to do with me stopping, it was just me finding interest in something else) 19:24 When you get to a Z level it just goes mental 19:24 <@rikersan> I mean yeah but what's the point with cool stuff if you don't ahve to fight it 19:24 <@rikersan> yeah it's wack 19:24 They get in your way 19:24 The summons 19:24 Not the Z itself 19:24 I try to detect them before asc and carry cursed !level for each one 19:25 @rikersan sliming does not count as polymorph 19:25 for a monster 19:25 <@rikersan> yeah no I thought you mean turning them into something killable, before you said green slime 19:25 <@rikersan> I just typed too slow 19:25 Note fire res 19:25 ah 19:25 Not fire res 19:25 Too weak 19:25 <@rikersan> yeah ok the headspike drains 1 wis and makes you hallu, also has a 5% to smash your head without a helm on 19:25 headspike is vorpal, isn't it 19:25 yeah 19:25 but they have 1500 health and regen to full in 5 turns after they hit 25% or something? 19:25 <@rikersan> yeah but helm 19:25 that is the only thing they had even back then 19:25 <@rikersan> it also causes amnesia 19:26 before they were beefed up 19:26 <@rikersan> lmao 19:26 it was basically vorpal mind flayer back then I think 19:26 you didn't want to go into melee 19:26 but besides that they weren't too bad 19:26 So what's the actual hardest monster in dnh? 19:26 changed cleric? 19:27 <@rikersan> demo. 19:27 <@luxidream> ac vs wand accuracy after 1000000 rolls 19:27 demogorgon 19:27 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/638519131783692291/unknown.png 19:27 \o/ demo3 19:27 <@rikersan> clairvoyant changed aren't bad dps wise 19:27 <@rikersan> I mean you can literally just not fight it 19:27 Yeah but you can't hit it 19:27 I know i know 19:27 <@rikersan> so? 19:27 So you can't kill it! 19:27 <@rikersan> black arrow works, and that's so broken right now it's not even funny 19:27 Ah right 19:27 <@rikersan> like seriously 19:27 True fact 19:27 @luxidream this is without bonus skills, right? 19:27 <@rikersan> 500 dmg per hit 19:27 <@rikersan> never mulches 19:27 <@rikersan> always hits 19:27 no bonus skills yeah 19:27 <@rikersan> ????? 19:27 what 19:28 luxidream: I like to think you have been sitting there doing this manually 19:28 bubbles_nh: haha I was kinda thinking that 19:28 "was that why he was afk" 19:28 Arrow should just be a stack of 3 and always mulches 19:28 \o/ 19:28 well, not literally manually but yeah 19:28 was I supposed to do it some other way? 19:28 :P 19:28 :P 19:29 <@rikersan> I think it was malor who ended up with like 4 uvuudaums one android run? 19:29 <@rikersan> that was amusing 19:29 luxidream: but anyway, I didn't much like how -20AC made most rays simply just miss 19:29 but fh has yet to actually change anything 19:29 player is -20 ac post castle 19:29 why is this a problem? 19:30 it means most wands will simply just not do anything at all 19:30 spells, etc 19:30 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 19:30 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 19:31 it's also annoying for players 19:32 ah yes 19:32 the sporkhack -20 AC WoY 19:34 @?un cthulhu 19:34 un cthulhu ~3~ Cthulhu (h) | Lvl: 106 | Diff: 58 | Spd: 15 | Res: sleep disintegrate poison acid petrification | Confers: nothing | MR: 95 | Generates: unique | AC: -8 | Attacks: 4d6 cast spell, 6d8 claw physical, 4d10 bite physical, 6d6 hug physical, 2d1 tentacle drain int, 0d0 gaze confuse | Alignment: 0 | Flags: omnivore, swims, amphibious, breathless, thick hide, regenerates, seeinvis, teleports, poisonous, nopoly, stalker, covetous 19:35 @?sp wizard of yendor 19:35 sp wizard of yendor ~3~ Wizard of Yendor (@) | Lvl: 30 | Diff: 34 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire poison | Confers: fire poison | MR: 100 | Generates: unique | AC: -8 | Attacks: 2d12 claw amulet steal, 0d0 cast spell | Alignment: -128 | Flags: omnivore, flies, breathless, regenerates, seeinvis, teleports, nopoly, covetous, infravisible 19:35 luxidream: it's @variant?monster 19:36 is uvuudaum worse than demogorgon? 19:36 @sp?wizard of yendor 19:36 i mean demogorgon is scarrryyyyy 19:36 Remember when i suicided on him\o/ 19:36 @s?wizard of yendor 19:36 Wizard of Yendor (@) | Lvl: 30 | Diff: 36 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire poison | Confers: fire poison | MR: 100 | Generates: unique | AC: -8 | Attacks: 2d12 claw amulet steal, 4d6 weapon physical, 0d0 cast spell | Alignment: -128 | Flags: omnivore, flies, breathless, regenerates, seeinvis, teleports, nopoly, covetous, infravisible 19:36 @p?wizard of yendor 19:36 w/e 19:36 is spork even included 19:37 <@malor> I get all the fun rare monsters that are nearly unkillable:) 19:37 it doesn't have new monsters so I guess not 19:37 @k?wizard of yendor 19:37 but it does buff him to ac-20 19:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:3975 19:37 well spork isn't exactly new 19:37 oh yeah spork has horrors 19:37 horrors, shambling 19:37 I think spork were the ones who introduced it 19:37 yup 19:38 unnethack and evilhack have them 19:38 they can be really wacky in dnethack 19:38 some attacks are dummied out 19:38 that horrors can get 19:38 oh dnethack has them too? cool 19:38 including an attack that throws a variable amount of boulders at the player in a single turn 19:38 I got that once 19:38 it was fun 19:39 it also hurt badly 19:39 <@rikersan> horrors SUCK in dnethack 19:39 <@rikersan> I like them they're cool 19:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:4782 19:40 at least no attack crashes the game I Think 19:40 <@rikersan> last game I had, stumbling horrors took 1/4 weapon damage, counted as demons and kept gating bad things in, and had an engulf attack that dealt like 3d12 and healed them for it 19:40 *think 19:40 in unnethack you used to be able to polyself into chromatic dragons 19:40 <@rikersan> fiq: that's the better version - that's the same attack that throws loadstones at you :) 19:40 using #monster immediately crashed the game 19:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Fire Brand bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:4973 19:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:5117 19:41 hence the segfault breath qdb quote? 19:41 :P 19:41 :P 19:41 by stenno iirc 19:41 no wait, stenno was the one who asked 19:41 Adeon might have been the actual player 19:42 Beholder: how many messages do I have? 200? 19:42 LarienTelrunya: Message from AntiGulp at 2019-10-28 19:04 EDT: I don’t have a good way to host screenshots right now, but it looks exactly like the 3.6.x #enhance menu. The flag I added just allows for some nicer UI on section headers. 19:42 ah no, I was right the first time apparently 19:42 oh well 19:42 AntiGulp: somehow I can't imagine what a technique menu in enhance-style would look like... 19:42 luxidream: if I were to do hallubreath at some point, it'd probably be one 19:42 alongside megabytes a la ZAPM 19:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:5962 19:44 LarienTelrunya: All it is is that the table headings are highlighted in gray if the player has that option enabled, just like the enhance menu. It’s a curses update, I belive. 19:45 umm 19:45 aren't all lines in gray 19:47 … 19:48 I need to get a screenshot 19:48 * LarienTelrunya would like fleecy-colored lines ;) 19:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed greased +5 premium heart", on T:9221 19:48 LarienTelrunya: have you ever played acehack 19:49 nope 19:50 http://home.fiq.se/colors.png 19:50 aww ♥fleecelfleecel♥! this reminds me of slex's fleecescript trap :) 19:50 2 muhfuckin magic lamps in Itschak's 19:50 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) killed the invisible Lady of Pain, on T:24491 19:51 <@rikersan> nice antivirus 19:51 YEEEYAH! 19:51 LarienTelrunya: you want to know the best part? 19:51 you can't turn it off 19:51 YAAAAAAAAAAY! fleecy colors for everyone! ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 19:52 http://home.fiq.se/more_colors.png 19:52 omg I love acehack's devteam now, despite never having played it! 19:52 https://imgur.com/a/KdvIf5x 19:52 acehack multiplayer for hdf when 19:52 gosh, acehack looks pretty 19:52 omg they even have colored top lines, I wish I knew how to code that for slex 19:52 luxidream: I've asked K2 for it sometimes 19:52 he keeps saying no D: 19:52 LarienTelrunya: ... 19:52 K2: explain yourself 19:52 no 19:52 multiplayer = fun 19:52 fun = good 19:53 ... DIRGE 19:53 \o/ 19:53 Bold move, cotton 19:53 AntiGulp: why the unneccesary colon after the "choose your technique" though 19:53 * FIQ glares at LarienTelrunya and looks pointedly at FIQHack's msgcolor option 19:53 ok seriously... maybe 19:53 but not until after new years 19:53 which was coded specifically because LarienTelrunya complained 19:53 LarienTelrunya: Because that’s how menus are in 3.6.x and I want everything to be consistent. 19:53 mmmk? 19:53 of the message colors 19:54 FIQ: well the one in your acehack screenshot is dark blue too, which is kind of like the worst possible color for that line but being able to make it colored at all would be nice for slex 19:54 AntiGulp: what craziness is that, comic sans mono? 19:54 sounds good :D 19:54 AntiGulp: omg then the menus in 3.6 are even more *** than I thought! man 3.6 is such a regression :P 19:54 FIQ: Default iterm2 font. I changed it on my work computer, but not my personal one (yet). 19:55 LarienTelrunya: um, all menus has been like that since forever 19:55 wait 19:55 including 3.4.3 19:55 can I play nethack in comic sans 19:55 brb 19:55 well 19:55 the font basically looks like a monospaced comic sans 19:55 this is almost as bad as changing the train announcer voice to a slightly different voice that sounds almost like the original voice except more *** than before! (Which they did, sadly, but at least some older wing bundle trains still exist that have the original voice :P) 19:56 LarienTelrunya: I don't understand your compalints 19:56 menus has always been that way 19:56 My terminal actually just have monospaced comic sans 19:56 I’m so happy 19:56 I HATE it 19:56 AntiGulp: rip eyes 19:56 loool 19:56 thankfully LarienTelrunya has no power over the user's terminal 19:56 I'm not sure if I want to know what dark magic she'd do if she did 19:57 https://imgur.com/a/BbnFMfJ You all have to suffer as I am suffering 19:57 nice kerning 19:58 S E T H A S C H O S E N Y O U 19:58 is this the uncursed palette 19:58 libuncursed 19:58 it kinda looks like it 19:58 at least you can tell the difference between capital and lowercase letters 19:58 AntiGulp: UGH I've read a screenshot LP of nethack with some microspaced font once, it was almost impossible to read the messages. Induces the same agony as having to play with butt-ugly tiles, to be honest. 19:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non) was given the Pen of the Void, on T:11587 19:59 unlike the square font currently on hdf 19:59 FIQ: I think so. It’s not my favorite palette but I keep forgetting to mess with my terminal settings. I’m trying some stuff out right now, and taking suggestions. 19:59 LarienTelrunya: Hey tiles are cute 19:59 AntiGulp: the libuncursed palette is actually pretty decent 19:59 if your screen is too constrasted in the bright direction 19:59 I’m playing in cursive now 20:00 like ais' 20:00 it was a huge pain on my pandora 20:00 which if anything had the opposite problem 20:00 things were impossible to make out 20:00 AntiGulp: I've not seen any nethack tileset that would even qualify for the label of "bad", let alone one that I'd actually want to play with 20:00 in the dark colors 20:00 LarienTelrunya: you should try fiqhack's tilesets 20:01 there's one that's just stolen sprites 20:01 nevanda 20:01 all tilesets I've seen so far vary between "terrible", "completely unplayable" or "uhh nobody can tell those fuzzy graphics apart" 20:01 it doesn't look half bad 20:01 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nevanda.png 20:01 DawnHack is really good 20:01 fiqhack has a tileset called "slashem" (from nethack4) 20:01 it also has rltiles 20:01 dawnhack is also good yes 20:01 and dawnhack 20:01 nevanda would be "can't tell those fuzzy graphics apart" on my list :P 20:02 they look pretty clear to me? 20:02 I think nethack4's rltiles is an upgraded version of nh3's similar tileset 20:02 those monsters all look kind of the same 20:02 it's also used on dcss 20:02 webtiles 20:05 heya 20:06 What's "The Icy Wastes"? It seems pretty barren. 20:06 there's a quantum mechanic boss 20:06 the failure eidolon 20:06 !whereis bouquet 20:06 FIQ: [hdf-us] bouquet [spl]: (Sam Hum Fem Law) T:38772 The Dungeons of Doom level: 13 20:07 he drops some earmuffs and a ball that blows up when you throw it 20:07 he went down pretty quick. 20:07 earmuffs 20:07 bouquet: Yup, he’s a failure 20:07 the branch is not very interesting 20:07 what for 20:07 mandrakes? 20:07 FIQ: Give ya sonic resistance 20:07 wait no 20:07 I see. Well, I got some sweet muffs now 20:07 Make the player deaf 20:07 AntiGulp: is the joke that he has a teleport attack on a no teleport level 20:07 AntiGulp: yeah I figured 20:07 but... why? 20:08 sonic dragons, wand of sonics, sonic hedgehog... 20:08 ooh 20:08 cool 20:08 FIQ: In Splice, sonic attacks are a thing, as are banshees, as well as mandrakes if I choose to put them in. Having deafness on demand is handy. 20:08 ok 20:08 do they go in the tool slot 20:08 In old splice, earmuffs are a helmet (which is stupid). 20:08 or can you have both a blindfold and earmuffs 20:08 In development, they go in the tool slot. 20:08 the last one was a suggestion :) 20:09 current splice they won't fit over my helmet. 20:09 I recall having trouble with a pair of earmuffs because I were wearing glasses 20:09 a couple of years ago 20:09 bouquet: Server is running old splice 20:09 at some kind of event 20:09 idr what I was doing 20:09 I see. 20:09 can you link to dev splice antigulp? 20:09 ya 20:09 btw 20:09 earmuffs *should* go on helmet slot 20:10 I don't think you can wear earmuffs over a helmet or vice versa 20:10 maybe a hat 20:10 not much else 20:10 luxidream: https://github.com/NullCGT/SpliceHack/blob/development/Changelog 20:10 thanks 20:10 AntiGulp: is the changelog actively maintained? 20:10 or is it like K2 20:10 FIQ: Logically, yes. In terms of gameplay, no one ends up using them because the helmet slot is so useful, and it’s hard to swap out helmets on command. 20:10 Eh, it’s relatively well-maintained. 20:11 >helmet slot 20:11 >useful 20:11 is the Mysterious Laboratory worth tackling? 20:11 it's among the least useful armor slots 20:11 bouquet: no 20:11 telepathy and brilliance are your choices for anything besides just AC 20:11 no no no no no 20:11 maybe cornuthaums for wizards 20:12 my ski helmet has earmuffs built in. 20:12 just sayin' 20:12 bouquet: I mean, I guess it depends on your role. There’s some spellbooks, and eating the Ancient Brain gives a permanent Int and Wis boost, but the monsters in there are real nasty 20:12 so you should go there as a wizard 20:12 noted 20:12 not my scene, then. 20:12 there's 4 spellbooks, and the equivalent of a blessed potion of enlightenment 20:12 so no 20:12 huh 20:12 I'm dual wielding Gae Buidhe and Gae Dearg so I'm cancelling and draining like a boss. 20:12 that's barely anything 20:13 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) had Dragonbane bestowed upon him by Mars, on T:64749 20:13 yeah 20:13 "some spellbooks" to me mean like 10 20:13 not 4 20:13 and "int and wis boost" I figured meant like 2-3 20:13 not 1 20:13 AntiGulp: I think these branches should have more incentive/difficulty 20:13 luxidream: I agree 20:13 which is inferior to a simple gain attributes 20:13 Also, nice on the dual spears, bouquet 20:14 err, gain ability 20:14 ...the former name makes more sense 20:14 Splice etherpad is here for suggestions. Branch incentives should be on there, if it’s not already. https://www.hardfought.org/etherpad/p/SpliceHack 20:14 Thank you for making a worthy dual-artifact combo! 20:15 >Players killing ghosts are not reported via livelog (OPEN) 20:15 various 3.4.3 variants have this 20:15 I love dualing grayswandir and excalibur in slash'em, but that's just insane power. This is a good balance. 20:15 fh also has this, and I think 4k does (fh stole it from 4k, but idk if it was 4k mainline) 20:16 >Monsters are still affected by the mysterious force. (OPEN) 20:16 bouquet: It’s thematic, since Gae Buidhe and Gae Dearg were heavily associated in legend, and iirc were used together. 20:16 trivial fix, see muse.c, grep mysterious force 20:16 (not the teleport one) 20:16 AntiGulp: can the molydei polymorph be resisted with polymorph control 20:17 monster techniques 20:17 luxidream: That should be possible. If not, it’s a bug. 20:18 MONSTER TECHNIQUES IS NOT A PROMISE. Just a stupid idea. 20:18 this is actually the main reason fh special abilities is unfinished code 20:18 in the changelog it says "the only way to resist is unchanging" 20:18 AntiGulp: pffff 20:18 so that's why I asked 20:18 AntiGulp: monsters and players should be alike as far as possible 20:19 player-monster symmetry is a good thing 20:19 FIQ: I 100% agree. 20:19 That's your own personal philosophy, FIQ 20:19 I try to push symetry as much as possible. 20:19 luxidream: shh 20:19 I don't see you giving monsters conflict? 20:19 I share this philosophy. 20:19 it's the One True Way 20:19 luxidream: I have considered it 20:19 Same 20:19 main reason is I haven't figured out a way to make players affected in a way that is good for the game 20:20 also monsters can put on a banded mail in one turn 20:20 pretty unfair if you ask me :P 20:20 they can't 20:20 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Bat Mal Non), 131394 points, T:15548, killed by a death ray 20:20 otherwise that's a bug 20:20 <@rikersan> oooh wands of death on soldiers 20:20 <@rikersan> fun times 20:20 luxidream: however, monsters read spellbooks faster due to lack of implementation of monster occupations 20:20 but this is o nTODO 20:20 *on TODO 20:20 so monsters atm read books faster since it makes them helpless 20:20 FIQ: putting on say DSM takes the player five turns 20:21 wouldn't that also be monster occupation? 20:21 yes 20:21 same with pet eating 20:21 luxidream: Just checked. Molydeus venom will still poly a player with polymorph control, but the player will not be coerced into being a manes. 20:21 it should also be an occupation 20:22 luxidream: there was a substantial time where monsters did not have Pw 20:22 instead, monster spellcasting, while it worked like player spellcasting in most circumstances, messed with mspec_used instead 20:22 basically monster casting had a cooldown 20:22 instead of pw 20:22 monster pw probably benefited them more than having it on a cooldown 20:22 it did 20:23 realistically they have infinite pw :p 20:23 :P 20:23 AntiGulp: so why is the player visiting shops in the planes if the sins are extremely dangerous 20:23 anyway, in my plans 20:24 <@rikersan> shops in the planes? neat 20:24 special abilities use mspec_used (both for players and monsters) 20:24 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24 for doing stuff 20:24 luxidream: At present, the shops are flavorful. I haven’t found a good way to incentivize it yet. One of the many reasons why I’m not releasing dev splice yet. 20:24 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25 it was basically intended as something similar to dnh spirit powers 20:25 in terms of general usability 20:25 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 20:25 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 20:25 and you're essentially forced to fight every demon lord 20:25 and prince 20:26 each role, and possibly race, would have one (or a set of) special abilities 20:26 polymorph means you lose them in favour of the monster's (if it has any) 20:26 luxidream: WIP 20:26 and I intended to add various special abilities for monsters 20:26 not just what they have atm 20:27 in particular, I would make use of this to make demons more unique 20:27 atm you could remove like 80% of the regular demons without losing much 20:27 gameplay-wise 20:27 FIQ: I’ve been looking into that as well. I’d like monsters to be more diverse, so that the player has to use different strategies to fight them. 20:27 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27 they're pretty much all the same 20:27 Yeah, demons are especially bad. 20:27 AntiGulp: did you see my YANI a few days ago 20:27 about demon pacts 20:28 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 20:28 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 20:28 <@Umby> Greetins' 20:28 <@Umby> In the gym rn 20:28 <@Umby> How's the hacking 20:28 hi umby 20:28 I refuse to accept nethack lore where demons and devils are chilling together in the same hell :V 20:28 FIQ: Yeah! That would fit really well in splice actually, seeing as I’m trying to push the game to focus more on techniques and activated abilities (which one might receive from demonic pacts). 20:28 <@rikersan> make them grudge :) 20:29 <@rikersan> then call it good 20:29 luxidream: blood war when 20:29 luxidream: make them grudge each other? 20:29 luxidream: [backscroll] I read that as "SETH ASC HOSE 'N YOU" 20:29 then you have erinyes tearing up the other demons in graveyards lol 20:29 FIQ: never make fun of my changelog handling 20:30 EVER 20:30 :P 20:30 K2: "I should do this... maybe in a week or next month" 20:31 at first I kinda was like you 20:31 aosdict: lol 20:31 I didn't like maintaining a changelog 20:31 then I realized 20:31 heh 20:31 I could just look at my previous commit messages 20:31 as a changelog 20:31 start from there 20:31 yup exactly 20:31 and then continue each time I change something 20:31 so I did 20:31 i need to disipline myself to edit the change log with every commit 20:31 since then I maintain fiqhack's changelog consistently 20:31 but NO 20:31 K2: too much work 20:32 AntiGulp: fiqhack monsters do actually break boulders with wands of striking (and force bolt) 20:32 see mon_choose_dirtarget 20:32 in fiqhack muse.c 20:33 FIQ: Oh seriously? Mind if I steal that? 20:33 <@rikersan> (backscroll) antigulp you should add yugoloths if you want a blood war :) 20:33 I should mention, since AntiGulp mentioned the etherpads, that xNetHack also has one on hardfought's shiny new etherpad server: https://www.hardfought.org/etherpad/p/xNetHack 20:33 I do not mind, no 20:33 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 20:33 and not to be outdone - https://www.hardfought.org/etherpad/p/EvilHack :P 20:34 I love yugoloths 20:34 <@rikersan> and those and ancient baatorians 20:34 <@rikersan> cuz they're stupid and evil and I like them sorta 20:35 HA! 20:35 I’m a big obyrith fan 20:35 the necronomicon was hiding in the library of law 20:35 <@rikersan> nice lmao 20:35 <@rikersan> I love it when that happens 20:35 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) killed Axus, on T:27514 20:35 <@rikersan> I feel like it never happens tho :/ 20:36 AntiGulp: that function handles all kind of directional wand/spell use and trice and potions 20:36 FIQ: I originally read it as “dirttarget,” and was surprised when I saw all the code for choosing dirt. 20:36 FIQ: This is amazing 20:37 it also handles stuff like monsters zapping speed on each other 20:38 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:27531 20:38 Am I reading this correctly, that monsters will bounce rays to hit things? 20:38 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:38 -!- bhaak has joined #hardfought 20:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v bhaak] by ChanServ 20:39 -!- eLtMosen has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:39 !tell K2 fix a failsafe that didn't work.. doesn't seem needed, but just in case 20:39 K2 shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, FIQ. 20:39 AntiGulp: yes, they will 20:39 and they do 20:39 there is a comment about that 20:40 "maybe only make some monsters abuse raybouncing" 20:40 but atm all monsters do it 20:40 "rename little dog to puppy" 20:40 should be priority 1 20:42 FIQ: I have no idea if I can incorporate this (I’m running a version of the intelligent pet patch I modified, which makes muse pretty crazy already) but this is very elegant. 20:42 AntiGulp: fiqhack rewrites muse handling in general 20:42 aside from item generation and various dungeon feature handling 20:43 (I wanted to move it to monster pathfind logic but left it in for now) 20:43 but from said necronomicon i got jack shit useful 20:43 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43 AntiGulp: there is also mon_choose_spectarget 20:43 Splice’s muse is filled with way too many bizarre interactions that I forgot I coded. Apparently I thought it would be a good idea for monsters to get drunk and toss blood at the player? 20:43 which is used for positional prompts 20:43 (skilled+ fireball/cone of cold and stinking cloúd iirc) 20:44 Ah 20:45 there's also various functions for special handling of some items 20:45 luxidream: there's more interesting stuff down at the bottom past the long unsorted list 20:45 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 20:45 apple of discord is op lol 20:45 for stuff like charging, (class) genocide, reverse genocide or the way monsters choose where to place summons 20:45 (they generally want to summon things next to hostiles in a way that maximize the chance of a hoard near their target, or a group of targets) 20:46 <@malor> Did Grouchy leave for the day on his Evil game? I don’t see a log for Ascended or dead 20:46 *horde 20:46 hmm 20:46 I can leave comments on this, right? 20:46 go ahead 20:46 I can probably use hostility_score to determine where monsters want to teleport you too 20:47 for master teleportation 20:47 I *want* comments 20:47 I think beartraps are very heavy 20:47 yep, they weigh 200 20:47 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) killed Oona, on T:28711 20:47 not in xnh 20:47 reduced the weight 20:49 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:10990 20:49 50 now, still kind of heavy I suppose 20:50 -!- attie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50 luxidream: actually monster pw kinda matters if a monster can cast jump 20:50 because they will generally prefer jumping if they move faster that way 20:51 Fun splice bug I just found: Monsters can air combo the player, like in a fighting game. 20:52 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 20:52 As soon as one causes the player to hurtle, they immediately get some number of free attacks on the player. Nice. 20:53 aosdict: Make monster hitting you with c corpse start delayed stoning instead of instadeath. 20:53 so it's currently instadeath in xnh? 20:53 as opposed to the vanilla behavior 20:54 no it's whatever vanilla behavior is 20:54 that isn't instastone? 20:54 no, it's delayed 20:54 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 3322288 points, T:77349, poisoned by Pestilence (with the Amulet) 20:55 saw that one coming unfortunately 20:55 Oof :( 20:56 yeah i died to pestilence once when he sickened me an insane amount of times in a round and i just died the turn after before i could do anything 20:57 <{Demo}> u were encumbered 20:57 <{Demo}> cause u were porking around a magic chest 20:57 lmao 20:57 <{Demo}> and then u put it down as soon as u could but that still used a turn of being encumbed 20:58 yeah 20:58 well 20:58 not gonna make that mistake this time 21:00 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 21:01 [hdf-us] [slshm] Spatula7 (Wiz Elf Fem Neu), 5521 points, T:2188, killed by a gnome lord 21:01 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:29120 21:01 <@rikersan> jesus christ porkman you can't play anything that's not an inc 21:01 <@rikersan> :) 21:04 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 21:05 Rikersan, I like incs :p 21:08 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 21:08 Test 21:08 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 2210 points, T:3164, killed by a hill orc 21:09 This client suuuuucks 21:09 [hdf-us] [slshm] Spatula7 (Wiz Elf Fem Neu), 77 points, T:212, killed by a rabbit 21:09 At least last for more than a minute before dying 21:09 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:11 -!- Umbire_ is now known as Umbire 21:11 "#dnethack :Cannot change nickname while banned/quieted on channel." 21:11 did I do something...? 21:11 Had to leave, /nick and rejoin 21:12 Um, not that I know of? 21:12 Hm 21:12 Anyway this current run sucks 21:12 Can you talk in #dnethack? 21:12 moment 21:13 #dnethack :Cannot send to nick/channel. 21:13 I think I might've joined wrong or something? 21:13 Hm. Lemmy check how to check :/ 21:13 That can't be it, though... 21:14 Hm 21:14 Anyway there's no sinks to check rings so no indication if I have telecontrol for my teleportitis 21:15 Which, I tested uncursed rings manually so 21:15 Umbire: it happens to me on the junethack channel as well 21:16 think you have to be identified 21:16 -!- luxidream is now known as spookidream 21:16 <@Umby> Nice, CIRC silently died again 21:16 <@Umby> Fuck this 21:16 Can you price-ID the rings? 21:17 Are you $a:grohl? 21:17 <@Umby> Anyway, unless it's a cursed ring I lifted from bones, I'm gonna have to contend with that forever since I put on each uncursed ring I had manually and none of them gave a prompt 21:17 <@Umby> ...no? 21:18 There's only two things on the ban list, so maybe it's the identified thing, yeah. 21:18 <@Umby> I could try shop ID'ing the rings I have but I'd rather not teleport out mid-way 21:18 <@Umby> And I don't want my arch-lich near any shopkeeps 21:18 And I'm going to boldly assume you didn't try to connect to ##not-a-honeypot 21:18 <@Umby> Else what's the point 21:18 <@Umby> Absolutely not 21:18 So yeah, you're not banned. 21:19 12:16:08 mode listing for #dnethack: $~a (set by karatkievich.freenode.net on 2019-09-12T07:16:58) 21:19 12:16:08 End of channel "q" mode list for #dnethack 21:19 <@Umby> So I have to have a registered ID then? 21:19 well, if you're teleported out, all it means is you'll have to walk back to the shop 21:19 I'd go for it. 21:20 <@rikersan> I think he means with the rings on 21:20 <@rikersan> :) 21:20 <@rikersan> drop all but the one your'e testing, with enough gold to cover it 21:20 why not just uncurse the ring 21:20 <@rikersan> oh it's halloween isn't it 21:20 if you don't already own the rings, you don't even need to pick them up. 21:20 <@rikersan> hm 21:20 so it is 21:20 <@Umby> I'm talking about a collection of rings I already have. 21:20 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:21 <@Umby> I eliminated the uncursed ones, and I haven't uncursed the others because I'd rather not waste that water on a gamble. 21:21 <@Umby> I also don't want to drop a ring and then get tele'd out. Worst case I have to buy it back, yeah, but that's just something I'd rather not deal with if I can help it. 21:21 <@Umby> Which... there you go, not a lot of recourse left otherwise. 21:21 I mean uncurse the ring of teleportation 21:22 You don't have to buy it back. 21:22 <@Umby> Yeah, figured this would be a given 21:22 <@Umby> It's intrinsic 21:22 <@Umby> Bad luck with tengus 21:22 the shk continues to respect your property 21:22 even after you leave 21:22 <@Umby> If it were a matter of a janked ring it wouldn't be as pressing 21:22 I've had a stash inside a shop ice box before 21:22 Heh 21:22 <@Umby> Nice 21:23 <@Umby> But that goes back to the "pet arch-lich teleports after me" thing 21:24 <@Umby> And, you know, I'd rather he not ice the shopkeeper 21:24 <@Umby> I can probably work around this but it'll take a minute 21:24 haha, that's a dangerous pet 21:24 be careful 21:24 <@Umby> well aware, trust me 21:25 <@Umby> incidentally, they affected by conflict? 21:25 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought 21:25 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v remirol] by ChanServ 21:25 probably too strong 21:25 @?arch-lich 21:25 arch-lich (L) | Lvl: 25 | Diff: 29 | Spd: 9 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison drain | Confers: fire cold | MR: 90 | Generates: sheol gehennom | AC: -6 | Attacks: 5d6 touch cold, 0d0 cast spell | Alignment: -15 | Flags: genocidable, breathless, regenerates, poisonous, undead, covetous 21:25 I'd be scared of level teleport traps 21:25 <@Umby> he's already maxed on level/HP so 21:25 <@Umby> oh, same 21:25 <@Umby> but I have searching so it's not AS terrifying 21:27 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:28 Demo 21:28 look at my AC now :p 21:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:16143 21:31 aosdict: why is the spork nazgul a good idea 21:32 <@Umby> Oh yeah, forgot to mention there's like one general shop in the whole game 21:32 <@Umby> Not counting Minetown 21:32 <@rikersan> does evilhack call fixed glass things 'fixed'? 21:33 <@rikersan> why not "shatterproof" or something like that? 21:33 <{Demo}> endgame ready ac 21:33 <@rikersan> ah it does ok 21:34 spookidream: I don't know the exact implementation of it in spork 21:34 <@Umby> Oh neat, there's a floor I haven't fully explored 21:34 is that the stunlocking one? because yeah no 21:35 <@Umby> please have a fucking sink 21:35 it is 21:35 <@rikersan> what's wrong with nazgul in vanilla? 21:35 I don't think evilhack's implementation does that. so either take that one or wait on implementing proper player-side fear effect and give the scream attack that 21:36 evilhack supposedly makes it better but I didn't run into it so I don't know how good/bad it is 21:36 @rikersan They're not all that flavorful or distinctive. They're a tougher wraith that carries a cursed ring of invisibility. 21:37 Plus, now that deafness is a thing, it's good to have upsides to being deaf (like there are some upsides to being blind). 21:37 <@rikersan> you could give them like cursed +4 poisoned stilettos or something, and buff their hp? 21:37 there are no good ways to become deaf 21:38 drums are rare 21:38 <@rikersan> also it doesn't look like it stuns in evilhack? I can't tell 21:38 and lol @ using a cursed unicorn horn for deafness 21:38 <@Umby> Just use a magic trap 21:38 <@Umby> 4Head 21:38 <@rikersan> I think it just shatters stuff and deals 2d8 21:38 <@rikersan> if deaf it deals 1 and shatters, and if you're glass golem you just die lmao 21:39 <@rikersan> ah it does nevermind 21:39 spookidream: my shorthand for the pad is something like "evilhack/sporkhack" means I was looking at an evilhack commit, whose commit message credited spork for the feature 21:39 inb4 leather drum wishes 21:39 so it's evilhack's version of the feature 21:40 ah okay 21:40 Though polypiling would probably work just as well. 21:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Croesus, on T:37560 21:40 <@rikersan> k2: are there any plans for anything using ad_loud for melee attacks or anything like that? I'm just curious, since I see it implemented but I'm not sure whether it's just future proofing or something else 21:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:17284 21:41 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 10766 points, T:4172, killed by a baby silver dragon 21:43 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 70 points, T:403, killed by a poisonous corpse 21:43 <@rikersan> ah it looks like horrors can have them 21:43 prob not 21:43 K2: Message from FIQ at 2019-10-28 20:39 EDT: fix a failsafe that didn't work.. doesn't seem needed, but just in case 21:44 <@rikersan> they can, right? 21:44 hmm horrors shouldnt really 21:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:20399 21:44 i need to add a condition 21:44 <@rikersan> I'm too lazy to check where AD_LOUD falls in the list of ads 21:44 ad_loud is supposed to be just for nazgul 21:44 <@rikersan> k2: migth be working checking out nero's horror rework for dnh 21:44 <@rikersan> he made a nice list of viable damages for attack types 21:44 mine was a rework also ;) 21:44 <@rikersan> well I just mean the random damage type bits 21:44 yeah 21:45 i will 21:45 <@rikersan> it makes a random AT and then chooses a valid AD from the lists 21:45 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 59803 points, T:17965, killed by a giant spider 21:51 !tell K2 minor AI tweaks: monsters are now willing to take minor detours in their pathfinding in case they find any interesting stuff to pickup 21:51 No worries, FIQ, I've got this! 21:51 thanks FIQ, will update later tonight 21:51 K2: Message from FIQ at 2019-10-28 21:51 EDT: minor AI tweaks: monsters are now willing to take minor detours in their pathfinding in case they find any interesting stuff to pickup 21:52 Didn't they already do that? 21:54 -!- remirol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:55 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought 21:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v remirol] by ChanServ 21:56 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 870 points, T:1634, killed by a giant ant 22:05 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 22:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8003 22:08 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) averted death, on T:23388 22:08 -!- Porkman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:65727 22:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:65737 22:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:65780 22:12 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 1472 points, T:2429, quit 22:14 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Und Dop Fem Neu), 381 points, T:495, killed by a small mimic 22:17 <@rikersan> what's up with the nethack 3.6.3 prerelease on windows store? just saw bart's post on reddit 22:17 <@rikersan> has nethack always been on the win store? 22:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:65933 22:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:65943 22:19 -!- Porkman has joined #hardfought 22:19 today I bought halloween candy at the store. in under 72 hours it will be unleashed 22:21 you gonna share? 22:22 TNNT updated (all servers) 22:23 sure let me figure out how to convert it to electrical signals. Mr Wonka did that, I'm sure it can't be that hard. 22:24 <@luxidream> 🍬 22:25 Oh, right, places that aren't Galion still celebrate Halloween on the 31st. I nearly forgot. 22:25 I've lived in one place too long. 22:25 Its bizarre quirks are starting to seem normal. 22:26 do you do a nearest sunday church thing or what 22:26 -!- Porkmantwo has joined #hardfought 22:26 heh 22:26 The entire community celebrates Halloween on the Sunday afternoon before the 31st. 22:26 From 2 to 4pm. 22:27 fortunately where i live, we dont get trick or treaters 22:27 jonadab: but it's still light out? 22:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:24457 22:27 K2: That's because they don't want to walk 3-5 miles between houses. 22:27 \o/ 22:27 mission accomplished 22:27 aosdict: I think that's the reason why they do it in the afternoon. 22:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8425 22:27 so halloween already happened for you 22:28 aosdict: If it were dark out, parents might have to actually accompany their children. Disaster. 22:28 Yeah, Halloween is over for us here. 22:28 where I am now is standard 31st trick or treaters 22:28 same 22:29 Yeah, it was like that every other community I ever lived in too. 22:29 -!- Porkman has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:29 ON the 31st, when it gets dark out. 22:29 except one year maybe 8 or 9 years ago where we got slammed with heavy wet snow on the 31st and a bunch of trees came down 22:29 there's a village nearby that does a large multi-block trick or treat party 22:29 <@rikersan> jonadab: ohio is a cursed land 22:29 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) genocided class J, on T:40943 22:29 But I've lived in Galion since 1990. Too long in one place. 22:29 no one really knew what to do 22:29 we've taken our kid to it for the last 6 years 22:29 @rikersan Not all of Ohio, trust me. Just Galion. 22:29 fun 22:29 I've lived in other cities in Ohio, they didn't do this. 22:29 <@rikersan> jonadab: anything else particularly cursed? 22:30 @rikersan Also, we have a terrible grandfather clause from hell that prevents us from having fluoride in the water. 22:30 cant wait for daylight savings time. it'll start getting dark by 4:30 22:30 I never had a dental cavity until I moved here. Now I get them all the time. 22:30 CANT WAIT 22:30 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31 @rikersan I looked up galion on wikipedia, the first thing you see is an infamous lynching 22:31 -!- tonehack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:31 <@rikersan> oh jesus 22:32 (Erwin, Tennessee, which I passed through earlier this year, was the same. The only town in America that was backwards enough to hang an elephant!) 22:32 hahah 22:33 made mitre give undead warning 22:33 maybe I should make all banes warn against their kind 22:34 some variants do this 22:34 <@rikersan> dnh does and it works out interestinly 22:34 <@rikersan> depending on the bane, if you make it slotless warning that can give a reason to not promptly ditch them at least? 22:35 Good job, @K2. 22:36 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:36 thanks. for what? :) 22:38 -!- Irestine has joined #hardfought 22:39 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) killed Illurien of the Myriad Glimpses, on T:32459 22:40 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) genocided class R, on T:41989 22:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) killed Ixoth, on T:39941 22:41 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 22:41 Hi everyone, new guy here. 22:41 Hi irestine 22:41 @K2 I meant that for #tnnt. For finding the bug I reported. 22:42 Is there a difference between the hardfought versions of NetHack and the vanilla ones found on NAO? For example NAO has 3.6.3, HF has 3.6.3-hdf. 22:43 oh hey no prob 22:43 you'll probably like the new commit i just pushed too ;) 22:43 hiya Irestine 22:44 yes there is, but only in the way of 'quality of life' changes and then things for server enchancements, such as livelogging 22:44 Hello, @K2. 22:44 the biggest change would be that 363-hdf tracks using 'Elbereth' as a conduct 22:45 otherwise core game mechanics are identical to vanilla 22:45 Is "The Void" worth exploring? 22:45 Interesting, thanks. I'm about to start a quick game to check it out. 22:45 no 22:46 @bouquet 22:46 we also have a functional !lastgame command 22:46 is it safe to say it's deVOID of anything interesting? har har 22:46 Irestine cool. yeah go for it. you'll see game events and deaths logged here, and a link top your dumplog posted 22:47 *too 22:47 I think void dragon has passive disintegration 22:47 +aosdict, were you talking to me about the !lastgame command? If so, what is that and how would I use it? 22:47 !lastgame bouquet 22:47 bouquet: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/unnethack/dumplog/1570504643.un.txt.html 22:48 !commands 22:48 K2: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !asc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands 22:48 no we dont drink here. ever 22:48 !beer 22:48 bouquet: One Darwin stubby, coming up! 22:48 That is very cool! 22:49 !who 22:49 spookidream: [hdf-us] spleen [nh363] zoya [nh363] klintos [nh363] oh6 [nh363] porkman [ndnh] Bartlem [tnnt] BEHiker91W [tnnt] bouquet [spl] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 22:49 I was thinking it was a game command, not an IRC command. 22:49 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:40441 22:50 just the conversations that happen in here alone is worth sticking around. the bot stuff is icing on the cake ;) 22:50 Irestine: hdf has a very active IRC channel so it's great if you're in a bind. There's usually someone here who can 'watch' your game to help you YASD like a pro. 22:50 oh you need another stupid death? here, hold my beer 22:50 I'm just here to observe the locals for my anthropology studies. 22:51 Sounds good, thank you! I just started working on a YASD now. 22:51 bouquet asked that we not shave our legs or pits for the study 22:52 bouquet: https://github.com/NullCGT/SpliceHack/blob/aeb0154f3084969f78ab115ee06339bb3c3c7325/dat/void.des 22:52 no items, extremely dangerous 22:52 in some ways splicehack is more evil than evilhack 22:52 i must correct this 22:53 this isn't really evil 22:53 just pointless 22:53 hah 22:53 because there is no reward 22:53 Irestine you so lucky, altar on dlvl 1 22:54 -!- shadowcat has joined #hardfought 22:54 hard pass. 22:55 I've never known anyone to watch me play. 22:55 It's a strange feeling. 22:55 heh. i can unwatch if you like 22:56 you should add a viewers count just to make people nervous 22:56 there is 22:56 Then it passes. 22:56 just the player can't see it lol 22:56 kinda surprised dtype never added a privacy setting to having your game being watched in realtime 22:56 Does that count Rodney? 22:56 rodney is always watching 22:56 its a given 22:57 unless he's knocked out and I'm eating his corpse 22:58 eating... is that what they call it nowadays 22:58 sicko 22:58 Impse rides again 23:00 I find DECGraphics is really helpful in the mines and Gehenom. I like the regular Nethack without line drawing characters better in room-n-tunnel levels, though. 23:02 i've been hooked on IBMgraphics for as long as I can remember 23:02 The watching doesn't bother me; it's just strange. 23:03 it's online for a reason, no? 23:03 K2: meh I’ve always been of a mind games on NAO are public 23:03 Not sure it's going to be an interesting game for a bit. I haven't become sophisticated enough to worry about turn counts. 23:03 says so when you hop on 23:04 it would be interesting if NH4 or the like added an in-game message when someone begins watching you 23:04 if you don’t want games watched, don’t play them in the glass booth 23:04 i've had enough players ask me over the years if they could disallow viewers. i dont see any harm in allowing it 23:04 other than i dont how to edit dgl to add that feature 23:04 spookidream: yeah you can see watcher count in dgl, but doesn’t show in game 23:05 spookidream: thats an interesting idea 23:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:2130 23:05 K2: but then do you know show ttyrec? not give game stats? 23:05 oooh early game geno 23:05 in dcss webtiles you can also see who it is if they are logged in and can chat with them 23:05 i would've geno'ed solder ants 23:05 that's led to some fun discussions 23:06 it's awkward and clunky to mail back and forth in nethack though 23:06 dtype: the whole fuss is being watched in realtime 23:06 yeah. why soldier ants? 23:06 after the fact, so what 23:06 not native nethack mechanic to show watchers. we play with mail daemon 23:06 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:42696 23:06 shadowcat: because you're going to run into soldier ants a lot sooner than mind flayers 23:07 well, a pony got me first. :P had a luckstone and everything. 23:07 :/ 23:07 K2: I kind of get it. but no interest here in limiting watching. has been the hallmark since I started it in 2001 23:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law), 842 points, T:2235, killed by a pony 23:07 dtype: i dont disagree 23:07 but other servers can do whatever :) 23:07 just saying, there's been interest in it, and more than just 1-2 people asking 23:08 yep understand the ask 23:08 how ya been? been awhile since I've seen you speak here :P 23:09 heh good. btw there was a lot more pushback on public watching when it was new 23:09 oh i bet 23:09 I have 2 new kittens 23:09 so i got a bag of tricks and an aligned altar on level one. Is it worth using the bag at this point or wait till later? 23:09 hmm i'd wait a bit 23:09 shadowcat: you can't receive artifacts until level 3 23:09 I didn't mean to cause such a stir in the conversation about real-time viewing. 23:09 yeah, that was what i wasn't sure about. 23:09 only good reason to do it now would be to shorten the prayer timeout 23:10 Irestine no you didnt cause a stir at all 23:10 I don't have a problem with it, but it would be kind of cool to see how many people are viewing. 23:10 we discuss *everything* here 23:10 and i mean everything 23:11 dtype: what kind of kittens? 23:11 and are they nethack kittens that can take down a navy seal? 23:11 Burmese 23:11 nice 23:12 pics or they arent real :P 23:12 f f f 23:12 https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/sCjvLCOj/IMG_1158.JPG 23:12 geez... i just watched my younger dog make a big production about getting up from one couch and moving to the other 23:12 k2 ^^ 23:13 .... 23:13 AWWWWWW 23:13 i tried! i couldnt resist! 23:13 AWWWWW 23:13 https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/wPOJlb7m/IMG_1140.JPG 23:13 K2 fails saving throw vs. aww 23:13 https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/qjgr5Wu2/59218161187__61118EC5-3159-4C5C-B64B-B219FD95CCFB.JPG 23:13 omg stop 23:14 AWWWW 23:14 i keep rolling natural 1's 23:14 bro and sis 23:14 was about to ask 23:14 <@rikersan> k2: reminds me of the 3.5e kittens vs. commoners 23:14 inseparable. 23:14 [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law), 459 points, T:1293, killed by a wererat 23:15 <@rikersan> oooh are we posting cats 23:15 yeah 23:15 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/638576548810719262/Screenshot_20191027-223105_One_UI_Home.jpg 23:15 Irestine like i said, everything goes here ;) 23:15 wish I had a cat 23:15 https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2455/source 23:15 n.n 23:16 <@rikersan> easy solution to that 23:16 https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WCGKWVrb/IMG_1011.JPG 23:16 <@rikersan> get a cat 23:16 <@rikersan> :) 23:16 k2. last one 23:16 ^^ 23:16 cute 23:16 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/638576875198873600/20191027_174516.jpg 23:16 rolled a 20 that time 23:17 the little one crawls up under my chest every night at midnight and cuddles up for warmth 23:17 .... 23:17 AWWWW 23:17 \o/ 23:18 no cats here, but my parents had a gigantic mountain lion looking in their window earlier this year. Looked like it was 100kg! 23:18 <@rikersan> dtype: what are their names? 23:18 Blue and Mochi 23:19 I post them on reddit for free karma 23:19 two cats here...Taffy and Brittle. Twin boys, both polydactyl on both front paws. 23:19 /u/dtype 23:19 shadowcat: nice 23:19 siblings are great 23:20 <@rikersan> assuming blue is the blue one? :) 23:20 yeah. I’m not creative. 23:20 older pic of my two dogs - https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2466/source 23:21 one on the right is significantly bigger now 23:21 nice 23:21 Friends of mine have four Norwegian forest cats which are basically mighty tigers 23:22 ozzy is now about 110 lbs, almost 5 yrs old, and the biggest baby i have ever seen 23:23 Blue will top out at 9 pounds. Mochi at maybe 7. 23:23 they are squirrels 23:23 perpetual kittens 23:23 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) killed Fierna, on T:36144 23:24 my oldest shepherd would try to kill them on the spot. she tries to kill ozzy repeatedly 23:24 but he's almost 40 lbs heavier so he's like 'oh another game!' 23:25 how would i upload a picture? 23:28 this is why I use irccloud. :) 23:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Bar Inc Mal Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1910 23:30 [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law), 704 points, T:2060, killed by a sewer rat, while frozen by a monster's gaze 23:30 shadowcat hmm... i've been using hardfought for so long as my image repository, i'm not sure what to recommend 23:30 damn floating eyes. :P 23:30 recent pic of ozzy and mini-me - https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2518/source 23:32 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 23:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 23:32 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) killed Daughter Lilith, on T:36279 23:34 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) killed Crone Lilith, on T:36300 23:35 Porkman vs the liliths 23:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:66800 23:40 -!- Irestine has quit [Quit: Irestine] 23:41 -!- Irestine has joined #hardfought 23:42 can I murder a crossaligned priest without losing protection... 23:43 if same race? dont think so 23:43 that's a vanilla yes 23:44 I do it all the time to get the money back and give it to the church a little bit lower 23:44 Porkmantwo: it's murder 23:45 i'm chaotic, yeah 23:45 only murdering a coaligned priest removes protection 23:46 will a blessed scroll of warp weapon potentially turn my weapon to something good like silver? Or is it not worth the risk? 23:46 splicehack 23:47 [hdf-us] [ndnh] porkman (Pri Inc Mal Cha) was given Rhongomyniad, on T:36800 23:47 I highly doubt it works on artifacts 23:48 was thinking my stack of 90 shuriken. Would be lovely if they were silver 23:48 maybe if I had a few scrolls I could hopefully transmute a couple times if the outcome isn't good 23:49 [hdf-us] [nh363] shadowcat (Val Hum Fem Law) signified by divine providence, was chosen to carry Excalibur, on T:2609 23:52 \o/ 23:52 The dwarf jabs her dagger. The dwarf flies into a berserker rage! The dwarf stabs you! 23:57 FIQhack updated (all servers) 23:59 sonofabitch won't crown me