00:06 What happened? 00:08 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:19 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:28 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 00:28 anyone here familiar with cracking safes with a stethoscope? 00:30 We've done it in UnNetHack; not in the real world though 00:30 With some safes you don't even need a stethoscope. 00:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 56267 points, T:28923, killed by a rothe, while fainted from lack of food 00:35 well, the thing is I apply the stethoscope 00:35 and nothing at all happens 00:35 no message of any kind 00:36 I do get prompted y/n/q to crack it 00:36 select yes, and there's no message 00:36 do I just need to keep doing it? I've probably tried 10 times 00:36 <@luxidream> sounds like a bug 00:39 AntiVirus: I think you need to apply "down", aka > 00:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 367 points, T:2285, killed by a sewer rat 00:39 ah 00:39 I just recall it's slightly different than a chest or box. 00:40 perfect thank you bouquet, that did it 00:44 you can crack a safe without being on top of it 00:45 apply the stethoscope in the direction of the safe as you're standing next to it 00:45 There is an empty uncursed locked iron safe (900 aum) here; crack it? [ynq] (q) 00:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) made his first wish - "blessed +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:16221 00:46 well for whatever reason that did not work for me. perhaps it only burned on action trying to crack 00:46 I did get that prompt tho 00:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:2312 00:48 was there any other objects occupying the same space as the safe? 00:48 nah 00:48 hmm 00:48 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) had Carnwennan bestowed upon her by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:10339 00:48 weird 00:48 hardly a big deal 00:49 [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:2560 00:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 2895 points, T:1656, killed by a gnome 00:52 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) had Gae Buidhe bestowed upon her by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:10400 01:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Ana Elf Fem Cha), 1861 points, T:1445, killed by a gnome 01:10 aaand double bones 01:10 What killed them? 01:11 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 01:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Tou Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1014 01:15 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) genocided two random monsters from class L, on T:21583 01:18 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 01:19 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 01:23 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:19163 01:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] Arimja (Val Hum Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:18552 01:30 Dear god 01:30 I made it all the way to the castle 01:30 No unicorn horn 01:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a pearl ring on an altar, on T:3216 01:38 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Dark One, on T:22211 01:38 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:22215 01:42 !who 01:42 JonathanHanes: [hdf-us] oh6 [nh363] Arimja [nh363] dragonspeaker [dnh] AntiVirus [evil] NCommander [xnh] | [hdf-eu] Raisse [tnnt] | [hdf-au] No current players 01:45 * NCommander thinks about what he wants to wish for 01:48 spellbook of polymorph 01:49 can monks cast that? 01:50 I'm not sure, but I hae a +4 helm of brillance 01:51 so Wis is at 23 01:52 Spellbook of polymorph + ring of polymorph control is really tempting 01:52 * NCommander however lacks reflection 01:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed spellbook of polymorph", on T:20446 01:55 Yeah that was a risk 01:55 It's almost castable, if I #enhance matter, I can do it 01:55 check medusa for a shield? 01:55 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed ring of polymorph control", on T:20497 01:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Tou Inc Mal Neu), 27173 points, T:6543, killed by a lightning bolt 01:56 I do have a wand 01:56 JonathanHanes, no dice there 01:56 * NCommander loads up his wand of death 01:57 I wonder if you can rev geno angels and take their shields 01:57 I'm trying a weaponless cnduct 01:57 so "oR is preferable 01:57 Reverse genocided monsters don't carry anything though 01:57 That being said, I'm out of wishes at the moment due to how xnethack works 01:58 wand comes precharged right? 01:58 Andrio: I thought that might be the case 01:58 2 wishes at the castle, one at vlad, one at orcus town I think 01:58 and theresa fifth one somewhere 01:59 in the tower 02:00 ring of poly control lets me self-poly to vampire lord or master mind flayer which negates the body armor penality which is nice 02:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 9652 points, T:5481, killed by a blast of fire 02:05 Castle generated really low in this run 02:05 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) was chosen to take lives for the Glory of Anhur, on T:22334 02:05 :b (y) 02:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Sam Swn Fem Law) was given Jinja Naginata, on T:1863 02:08 -!- merleke_zzz has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a master mind flayer, on T:21749 02:21 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Fem Law) killed Master Kaen, on T:21773 02:21 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:21776 02:22 I don't want to know how much ofan alignment penality I took for that 02:24 I'm honestly debating genociding team c now 02:24 Because of the risk it poses as being a mind flayer or vampire 02:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Sam Swn Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3418 02:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Sam Swn Fem Law) was given Sunsword, on T:3463 02:31 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) entered Gehennom, on T:22824 02:40 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 02:48 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) genocided two random monsters from class V, on T:23201 02:51 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) killed Asmodeus, on T:24021 02:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Sam Swn Fem Law), 21433 points, T:6637, killed by a gnome king 02:55 -!- valkyroo_ is now known as Saget 02:55 gnite 02:56 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:23424 02:56 night K2 02:57 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:24321 02:59 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) killed Juiblex, on T:24384 02:59 that was really close 03:05 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) killed Baalzebub, on T:24870 03:08 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:23617 03:09 well, I'm satisfied with that for now 03:09 good night 03:15 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19 Well I made it to vlad's tower 03:19 and had several near death experiences 03:21 Granted, I *still* don't have reflection 03:23 -!- BEHiker91W has joined #hardfought 03:55 -!- b_jonas has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 04:29 b_jonas is gone again? aw 04:42 -!- Yasdorian has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:53 * NCommander is remarkably tired 05:00 you're playing weaponless monk? that's my jam yo 05:00 hell yeah 05:00 weaponless vegan monk ftw 05:00 the only way to play monk 05:00 body-armor-less 05:00 -!- BEHiker91W has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01 i found grayswandir in the persesus statue in this evilhack game 05:01 but it's in my stash lol 05:01 wat 05:01 crazy right? instead of silver saber 05:01 oooh 05:01 1/40 chance i guess 05:01 oh jesus i didn't even know that could happen 05:01 seems more rare than that 05:01 yeah 05:02 isn't that the same chance that an arch-lich might be generated with Magicbane? 05:02 i think that's even rarer 05:02 but ya same idea 05:02 1/260 chance for Magicbane as athame 05:02 where did you get the 1/40 from? 05:02 grayswandir wiki 05:03 i found it on the ground once before too, not bones 05:03 in the statue was funny though 05:03 nice 05:04 captains can be generated with it too, right? 05:04 there was a debate about that 05:04 captains can be generated with silver saber but someone was saying monsters won't generate with artifacts or something 05:04 not sure 05:05 i used it for a bit, but i had already been crowned so i can't train saber i don't think 05:05 and martial arts in eh is really good at grandmaster (you get an extra turn) 05:05 i'm getting ready to kill wizard... probably will splat on planes again 05:06 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08 i know that any soldier wont generate with magical armor 05:08 wasn't sure if that also counts for the weapons 05:13 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 05:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 05:17 K2: that "magic marker damages int permanently" change is for the evil variant only, and even for that I will tone it down because it's TOO evil. 05:25 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 05:28 how do you justify that? 05:29 what? that it drains int at all or that I *gasp* toned it down to be less evil? 05:32 is the hero huffing the marker fumes? 05:33 LarienTelrunya, the magic marker damaging intelligence 05:34 is there a flavour reason for that, or just to be evil? 05:34 Andrio: wasn't my idea :P supposedly your intelligence drains into the book or whatever it is that you are writing 05:34 Maybe... 05:34 Don't suck on pens too much, kids 05:34 Ah 05:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] mmj (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 1918 points, T:1440, killed by a bolt of lightning 05:42 !tell AntiGulp what happens if a djinni "wZishes" for an item? does it make a "zisch!" sound? :D 05:42 I'm on it, LarienTelrunya. 05:44 !tell AntiGulp also why do you let loose your "furty", wouldn't it be much more fun to let loose your farty instead? :P 05:44 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 06:00 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 06:07 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:34 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41 blp they found another bomb in my city 06:42 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 06:42 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 06:42 no evacuation for me though so thats good 07:01 -!- kimeemaru has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:02 <{Demo}2> cptn cannot gen with grays 07:03 <{Demo}2> nearly all the mksobj calls in makemon.c have the artifactible arg set to false 07:04 -!- merleke has joined #hardfought 07:08 -!- alex___ has joined #hardfought 07:09 !who 07:09 K2: [hdf-us] No current players | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 07:12 EvilHack updated (all servers) 07:24 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:30 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 07:41 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:44 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:02 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 08:03 <@malor> K2, sorry to bother again, but my game crashed, can you check to see if it is ok to go back in. 08:04 <@malor> I played quite a bit since the issue from yesterday so I don't think its related really. 08:13 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:15 <@malor> Antigulp what does a "furnace" do in splice? 08:15 <@malor> K2 are you still around? 08:16 you need a scroll of summon antigulp :D 08:16 [hdf-us] [spl] malor (Wiz Ang Mal Neu), 40 points, T:168, killed by a carnivorous bag 08:16 maybe we should chant her name to make her appear... Antigulp! Antigulp! Antigulp! 08:17 no that is what works for bhaak 08:17 ANTICHRIST ANTICHRIST ANTICHRIST 08:17 (sepultura song) 08:17 oh right, discord users somehow don't see who is online on the IRC 08:17 then again we don't see who's online on the discord :P 08:17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX-dnSgkQMs (very old metal) 08:18 also I swear, one day I'll have the new SLEX 2.57 ready for a release and then everyone shall be bundled (or bubbled) into playing it :D 08:19 somebody requested my presence? 08:23 now i summoned the antichrist 08:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 392 points, T:2245, killed by a kobold lord 08:32 hey @malor i'm here 08:33 <@malor> my game had an insta-crash (dnethack "malor") and I was wondering if you could look at it to verify I can re-enter without removing my game. Also you may want to pass the "dumplog" on to Chris perhaps. 08:33 doh ^ 08:33 @malor ok, will look here in a few min 08:33 <@malor> this is not likely related to the previous issue as I saved and went back in at least 10 times since then. 08:33 <@malor> that's fine. 08:33 getting settled in here at work :P 08:33 <@malor> thanks! 08:34 <@malor> that should take precedence 🙂 08:34 <@malor> my wife keeps telling me that anyway. 08:34 hi K2! sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to know what's the deal with iron balls and chains now? i.e. what is supposedly bugged with them in vanilla? 08:35 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 08:36 LarienTelrunya: devteam fixed the last bug I was talking about 08:36 ah, that's nice, which variants are affected by that bug? do I need to fix it for slex too? 08:37 i dont think it applies to 3.4.3 - a lot of work has been done recently with ball/chain in 3.6.x 08:37 the most recent issue had to do with a recent change 08:38 if you werent so adverse to 3.6.x, you could maybe look at the official repo and see what all has been worked on in regards to it :) 08:38 lol I do look at that repo sometimes 08:38 after all I did pull 3.6's "saving while engulfed removes ball and chain" bug 08:38 wut 08:38 you put 3.6 code into slex?? 08:38 yeah, go figure! 08:39 every once in a blue moon the 3.6 ******* devs make an actually good change that slex will incorporate :P 08:39 <@FIQ> 3.6 isn't all bad 08:39 its not bad at all imo 08:39 <@FIQ> there is some stuff I dislike 08:39 well yeah.. there's always *something* 08:40 <@FIQ> but it's not bad 08:40 <@FIQ> anymore 08:40 my biggest complaint with vanilla would prob be that the mysterious force is still in 08:40 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 08:40 <@FIQ> 3.6.0 had almost nothing new that I actually liked 08:40 <@FIQ> but a lot of stuff I disliked 08:41 the new medusas were good 08:41 <@FIQ> it got better 08:41 i don't like raven medusa 08:41 3.6 stole quite some stuff from existing variants; I wouldn't call that "new content" :P 08:41 @malor game recovered 08:41 more like "content that we all know from variants already" 08:42 <@FIQ> speed system was made evil 08:42 <@malor> thanks K2. 08:42 <@FIQ> SM was made ridiculously OP 08:42 <@FIQ> orctown 08:43 altogether, nethack 3.6.[^0] is the best nethack we ever had 08:43 <@FIQ> it also lacked basically all UI improvements from the last decade and then some 08:43 and i think the new devteam members have a lot to do with that 08:44 yeah 08:44 LarienTelrunya: s/existing variants/NAO+un/ 08:44 there have been some decent community member pull requests too 08:44 Speed change is weird 08:44 speed change sucks 08:45 Aye 08:45 we fear what we dont understand 08:45 fuck that man 08:45 Like, what was the rational? 08:45 "Dwarves are too easy" 08:45 mimic kiting 08:45 :shrug: 08:45 <@FIQ> 3.6.1 speed system is kinda ok I guess 08:45 to make monster movement much less predictable 08:45 <@FIQ> 3.6.0 speed was ridiculous 08:45 I mean that is literally part of the game 08:45 a big part of the game 08:45 aosdict: because one of the devs is the un maintainer? :D 08:45 [hdf-us] [spl] malor (Wiz Ang Mal Law), 1690 points, T:1854, eliminated by a watch captain 08:45 hi bubbles_nh! *bubblebubblebubble* ♥ 08:45 <@FIQ> it basically gave all monsters +1-2 avg speed 08:46 hey ameya 08:46 +1 avg, right? 08:46 amy 08:46 <@FIQ> speed 12 monsters moved faster than players 08:46 hi bubbles_nh omgomgomg hugshugsFLEECYbundles 08:46 spelling 08:46 -2 to +1 08:46 hi K2 bubble omgomg fleecybubdle 08:46 oh I thought that was on purpose, such as the "swiss amy knife" :D 08:46 lol 08:46 <@FIQ> -1 to +2 08:46 actually would blue jellys geta full movement 08:46 er yes 08:46 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46 SLEX *is* the swiss amy knife \o/ 08:46 of course 08:46 <@FIQ> but due to the way it did it 08:47 <@FIQ> it basically translated to +1 08:47 <@FIQ> avg 08:47 +0.5 is the actual average average i think 08:47 It's just annoying because it means the best way is even MORE conservative 08:47 a "bubdle" is a mix of a bubble and a bundle, I guess? 08:47 so 1 would be the median 08:47 A bubbly bundle 08:48 a bubble-shaped bundle! ♥ how cuuuuute! 08:48 <3 08:48 <@FIQ> I think it gave the boost in a weird way 08:48 it added movement points 08:48 <@FIQ> So it was biased towards bigger boosts 08:48 <@FIQ> Especially for slow monsters 08:48 But WHY? It just makes the early game slower 08:48 <@FIQ> Mimics was basically speed 5 08:48 <@FIQ> iirc 08:49 But after XL5ish or whatever you don't even care anymore 08:49 the question is if sessile monsters would get random movement poitns too 08:49 On most roles 08:49 its not about 'caring' 08:49 So it is purely just making the early game slower 08:49 its about strategic movement 08:49 Evil Patch idea: every time a monster gets a move, there is a chance (that gets greater the more often it succeeds) that the monster just stays put and builds up movement energy. If the chance fails or the # exceeds 12, the monsters gets that many free moves on the player. Have fun getting hit 20 times by an ettin mummy before you get another turn! 08:49 :D 08:49 <@FIQ> No, sessile monsters got no bonus 08:49 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 47 points, T:131, killed by a jackal 08:49 I don't count turns after the early game 08:50 Maybe I'm just super bad 08:50 But with wands/pots/casters you don't even know how fast stuff is 08:50 And for anything that you haven't memorised the 12:monster_spd 08:50 especially when you are in a pinch, its very very important to be able to predict where a monster will next walk 08:50 and how many attacks it will have 08:50 Evil Patch idea: just increase the speed of all monsters to 13 (except ones that already have more than 13 speed to begin with). 08:50 because movement can also just mean another attack 08:50 Sure, but because of the speed modifiers you don't know that anyway 08:51 yes 08:51 well you don't know this with random movement 08:51 with non-randomized movement you usually know it 08:52 Agreed, so it is very important/strategic in the early game, when you do know it 08:52 And where small mistakes are likely more important 08:52 altogether randomzied movement is not the answer against m kiting 08:53 I guess I think m kiting is part of the game 08:53 <{Demo}2> I'm working on a quick curses game with enemies with randomized movement and it is wildly unpredictable 08:53 stennowork: give m a 0d0 passive sticky attack 08:53 rather than their active sticky 08:53 boom 08:53 done 08:54 what are the alternatives to kiting mimics? not being able to kill them at all? :P 08:54 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 144 points, T:330, killed by a water demon 08:54 amy waiting until you are big enough I guess 08:54 Which affects the harder-at-start rolesmore 08:54 "lol im possogroenoe the master shopkeeper and my giant mimic will KEEP YOU OUT OF MY SHOP!!! even though im on dlvl2 where giant mimics are hugely out of depth! hahahahahahhah" 08:54 <@FIQ> For a brief period, fh monsters were immune to melee kiting by never going into melee range if it allowed melee kiting 08:55 <@FIQ> It was really annoying to play 08:55 FIQ: that makes sense, but I guess they just dance round you? 08:55 <@FIQ> Yes 08:55 in dnh dwarves usually have a stack of aklysls so they stand at 2-range throwing them at you 08:55 FIQ: would they continue to stay put if you polearm them or throw/shoot/cast/zap stuff at them? 08:55 Which actually works quite nice 08:56 Also stennowork rather than randomising per-turn, randomising when the monster is placed would be way more strategic 08:56 Then you could actually plan/react 08:56 Assuming you have a way to measure and/or farlook told you 08:57 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 08:58 <@FIQ> They would yes 08:58 <@FIQ> It'd be easy to fix had I kept it 08:58 <@FIQ> Dragons still behave this way btw 08:59 <@FIQ> But besides them, no monster does 09:00 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 136 points, T:726, killed by a hobbit, while fainted from lack of food 09:00 oh I've wondered, since FIQhack aims so much to follow player/monster symmetry (which I consider a pipe dream anyway) but here goes: if a dwarf in FH has a pick-axe, can he autodig-and-move walls in 1 turn like they can in vanilla or do they actually have to spend time digging like a player? 09:00 <@FIQ> So far yes 09:01 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 124 points, T:60, killed by a bear trap 09:01 <@FIQ> I intend to fix all those cases eventually by merging player and monster commands 09:01 also do monsters still move and use ranged attacks in the same turn? (I'd guess not?) 09:01 <@FIQ> Just like monsters atm literally uses the 'r' command for reading stuff 09:01 <@FIQ> No they do not 09:02 <@FIQ> Nor do they unlock, open a door and move into the doorframe all in a single turn 09:02 ah 09:02 When skynet takes over we know who to blame 09:03 in vanilla, you can't even outrun a monster that's targetting you with a wand of death because if you move, the monster will move such that it's lined up again and zap you in the same turn 09:03 same when trying to get away from a black dragon 09:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 239 points, T:894, killed by a giant rat 09:03 <@FIQ> The main reason dwarves still dig in a single turn is that I intend to address cases like this by implementing monster occupations 09:04 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 51 points, T:194, killed by a poisonous corpse 09:04 <@FIQ> So that monsters putting on armor, or pets eating, don't make them helpless 09:04 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 28 points, T:9, killed by a water moccasin 09:04 dbanethacker is not having a goodtime 09:05 an occupation system for monsters does sound useful for that 09:05 Oh nice vis 09:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) consumed animal products for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:4364 09:05 however I need to leave now; see you guys! *bubblebubblebundleFLEECY :D* 09:05 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07 so bubbly 09:08 in dbanethacker's defense, convict role is hard in any variant 09:08 especially so with evilhack 09:08 but they do start out with sick resistance, so there's that 09:11 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:12 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 296 points, T:824, killed by an arrow 09:15 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 123 points, T:281, killed by a contaminated potion 09:16 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 0 points, T:23, killed by a jackal 09:17 <@Umby> !lastgame dbanethacker 09:17 @Umby: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dbanethacker/evilhack/dumplog/1571922944.evil.html 09:18 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 09:18 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 09:18 <@Umby> Seems like they might need to play a bit more careful, hard as the role might be 09:19 Who read a scroll of summon antigulp 09:19 AntiGulp: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2019-10-24 05:42 EDT: what happens if a djinni "wZishes" for an item? does it make a "zisch!" sound? :D 09:19 AntiGulp: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2019-10-24 05:44 EDT: also why do you let loose your "furty", wouldn't it be much more fun to let loose your farty instead? :P 09:20 !tell LarienTelrunya I’m so confused what does this mean help 09:20 No worries, AntiGulp, I've got this! 09:20 I presume she is informing you of typoes 09:21 Also, does cartomancer autocapture work on limited-spawn monsters like erinyes/Nazgul? 09:21 ooooooh. I tried searching for them, but I was on the wrong branch. Oops. 09:22 YANI: Cartomancers start with the create monster card identified, and a whole bunch of them containing various early to mid game monsters. 09:22 Since their use is limited duration, this should provide the starting player with a number of options. 09:23 <@Umby> cue start scumming for chameleons 09:23 aosdict: I’m not sure whether autocapture works with them. I’ve always had trouble with taking extinction into account. I *really* like that YANI. 09:23 <@Umby> :B 09:23 see some ants coming? maybe it's time to pull out that leocrotta card you've been saving 09:23 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 250 points, T:676, killed by a wand 09:23 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 09:24 AntiGulp: Not sure if this is directly related, but how about monsters who don't normally leave a corpse, can they still leave cards? 09:24 (Since the card isn't directly linked to the corpse and doesn't create a corpse I'm not sure it matters.) 09:24 <@Umby> oh no, that's actually a p. good question 09:24 <@Umby> !lastgame dbanethacker 09:24 @Umby: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dbanethacker/evilhack/dumplog/1571922993.evil.html 09:25 <@Umby> hmm, seems like they might generally be inexperienced 09:26 <@Umby> which is fine but with such a high-skill-gate-of-entry class like the convict 09:26 aosdict: That’s a really good catch. I’m not sure. I put the code in corpse_chance, but upon further examination I’m not sure that’s right. 09:26 Luckily, none of these changes are in the game yet, just in the development branch. 09:27 Oh right, that's coming at it from the other way. How I see it, you should be able to kill a yellow light and get a card of a yellow light even though you can never get a corpse. 09:28 Probably not if it kamikazes on you though. 09:28 Gas spores would be an especially weird case. 09:29 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 09:30 aosdict: That’s what I intended as well, but I think I have the code in the wrong place. Currently trying to figure out where to put it. 09:33 How's the cartomancer quest looking these days? 09:33 Ah, nice, I can stick it in xkilled before the nocorpse check. That way it only happens if the cartomancer kills the monster, and takes place regardless of whether or not a corpse would be left. 09:35 i need to play splicehack 09:35 it's definitely on the todo list 09:35 aosdict: It’s… still meh. The nemesis still has the potential to be fun (or super annoying), but the actual levels are kinda stinky. Definitely not my best work. 09:36 rebatela: I would wait until the new version drops. It’s *way* less buggy, and has *way* more features. 09:37 until it's discovered that the new features raise the bugginess back up :D 09:37 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:38 antigulp: ok! reading about it now. good luck with new version! 09:38 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:39 rebatela :D Thank you! 09:39 aosdict: shhhhhhhhhhhh 09:41 EPI: Moldier ants. Soldier ants with passive attacks. 09:41 so am I the only 3.6.x variant that's actually going to hold off on a release until after TNNT 09:42 no 09:42 Honestly, I’m probably going to end up holding off as well 09:42 you'll put something out between now and the 1st 09:42 I mean, I have fixes, but that's not a release. 09:42 i had to release eh 0.4 when i did otherwise i wouldnt be able to focus as much on other things 09:42 i did have a brief period last night tho 09:43 but thats ok 09:43 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 182 points, T:322, killed by a crossbow bolt 09:47 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 44 points, T:400, killed by a goblin 09:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed the invisible Center of All, on T:46578 09:55 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 09:59 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:59 Hmm so AntiGulp and I are in competition to make a card character :hmm: 10:00 Cartomancers have been around for a while, I’m just making them actually fun this time around! Also they have Yu Gi Oh and MtG references :) 10:01 (gotta get to work, sorry!) 10:01 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 10:08 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1711 points, T:3040, killed by a rothe 10:13 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 57 points, T:208, killed by a sewer rat 10:14 <@Umby> Go team a 10:23 seems like Discord exploded 10:24 Anyone else having problems on that end? 10:25 no everyone else is on irc ;) 10:27 as am I 10:27 :V 10:27 I'm just trying to see if Discord in general is having problems 10:27 Or if it's just something up on my end of the connection 10:27 Or with the app 10:28 insert js ramblings 10:28 the good thing about freenode is that there are no connection issues 10:29 alex___, discord is written in erlang and rust 10:29 isnt it an electron app 10:30 yes, on the client 10:31 for backend python/elixir/rust/go is claimed 10:31 shame they didnt go all the way 10:31 erlang/elixir is awesome 10:31 its the perfect language for distributed robust systems 10:31 like that 10:32 i remember when i first looked into erlang and didn't know about FP 10:32 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 10:32 and was shocked 10:33 how can you program if you don't have variables 10:33 but nowadays i understand how to program without mutating :P 10:33 the core problem with fp is 10:33 its all about mutating 10:33 or you might as well fill your computer ports with glue and leave it in the closet 10:33 uh, what? 10:34 fp people always talk about side effects 10:34 yes 10:34 and their definitions seem vague 10:34 https://xkcd.com/1312/ i like this one 10:35 though of course there are aspects with fp that are very likable 10:38 FIQ: if I compile the tubhack code you sent I can weild a pancake 10:43 i'd like a blessed fixed +7 pancake of fire please 10:43 w/ blueberries 10:44 mmm 10:47 Can't you wield pancakes in nethack already? 10:47 you can 10:48 you can wield a lot of things 10:48 BUt: 10:49 https://i.imgur.com/pYIJ69a.png 10:49 you can also wield a plate mail if you like 10:49 Can you wield 4 of them? 10:49 thats a nice amount of hands 10:50 "You're a one-man army; you have a 4 sets of arms" 10:50 I think mutation has to have huge risks and be very rare 10:50 I think to-hit and damage is already heavily reduced for each extra pair of arms 10:51 add 4-handed weapons 10:51 Yeah hitroll is d(20 + attackNumber + (appendage * 2)) 10:52 alex___: technically 8-handed weapons 10:52 thats pretty beastmode 10:52 programming types 10:52 could use some help with this one - https://termbin.com/m982 10:52 wtf is going on here with regex 10:53 i have the players game, gonna load it up in wizmode 10:53 Can you print out the regex object? 10:53 check and see if his primary weapon is named something funky 10:53 its a dagger he said in the email 10:53 f 10 10:53 Then p *re or something 10:53 oh oh oh 10:53 hilarity 10:54 h4x0ring time 10:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] Xaleth (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:17183 10:56 hmm 10:56 game is acting normal for me so far 10:57 oh wait 10:57 i see 11:01 i'm doing what he described, i cant reproduce the crash 11:03 what you need is a tester that doesnt understand how things work 11:03 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 11:03 hah 11:04 well, thats ME 11:04 :P 11:04 you think so! 11:07 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 11:08 this doesnt even look like it was game code that errored 11:12 ok i need food. be back in a bit 11:13 #18 0x0000560084134a8c in regex_match (s=0x7ffd39bfa480 "You hit the newt.", re=0x5600851105e0) at ../sys/share/posixregex.c:93 11:13 #18 0x0000560084134a8c in regex_match (s=0x7ffd39bfa480 "You hit the newt.", re=0x5600851105e0) at ../sys/share/posixregex.c:93 11:14 Oh sorry 11:14 right-click 11:14 :-\ 11:15 <{Demo}2> yey pancake punching 11:20 maybe he made magic rocks? did you check that? 11:25 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:27 Huh, I am sure I had some code that generated a sequence of canyon levels 11:27 But it has gone! 11:30 bubbles_nh: I believe I have it somewhere 11:30 -!- spontiff has quit [Quit: spontiff] 11:31 https://github.com/copperwater/xnethack-extras/blob/master/level_gen_algs/canyon.py 11:32 Awesome thanks aosdict <3 11:33 Hmm I think doing it as a graph would be better right 11:33 Then it turns into a node/edge problem 11:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:11850 11:48 -!- ichbinmiah has joined #hardfought 11:50 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 11:51 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 cloak of magic resistance", on T:43796 11:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] ichbinmiah (Val Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:10741 12:03 morning rebatela, I' 12:03 I've got a question for you 12:04 I'm lvl 16 now, do you think it's worth it to lure wraiths from the valley, or am I just setting myself up for crazy hard monsters for the rest of the game 12:04 if I lvl up too high 12:05 depends on your class/variant 12:05 in general, there is no real reason to go above level 14 12:05 Wizard, and I have everything I need 12:06 except teleport on command, but that might have more to do with not knowing the spell 12:06 wizards should get to XL 17 for intrinsic teleport control (?) 12:06 was it that? 12:06 yeah I didn't remember what lvl 12:07 yep 12:07 ok I'll chow one or two wraiths 12:07 lvl 18 sounds like a good place to be in case I get drained 12:07 thx 12:08 stairs in the castle, surrounded by water, wraith corpses would fall in the water. Cone of cold will fix this 12:08 <@IceBox> write finger of death and get yourself crowned for that sexy sexy drain resistance from storm bringer 12:09 I got crowned last night for Finger of Death 12:09 and I have the eye, so I'm very very happy 12:09 but yeah drain resistance & disintegration resistance are two things I still need 12:10 <@IceBox> i guess you dont need disintegration res if you have reflection, in vanilla at least 12:10 yeah 12:10 I think it still causes damage in EH 12:10 though nomming the first black dragon you can kill might not hurt anyway 12:10 :B 12:10 right 12:10 oh right, this is EH 12:11 takes 2 black dragon corpses to get full 100% disint res 12:11 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:55565 12:11 good to know 12:12 snarks give disint resistance too 12:12 (but much less % for each corpse) 12:13 you're in gehennom now antivirus? 12:13 right 12:13 yep 12:13 % is based off of corpse weight 12:13 nice! 12:13 stats maxxed 12:13 thx 12:13 range is 5 to 50% 12:13 i'm off to kill the wizard 12:13 finger of death, and the eye. AC -51 12:13 juuuust about anyway 12:13 wewt 12:13 Say hello to Rodney for me 12:14 and good for you man! 12:14 i'll probably splat again 12:14 but the journey has been fun 12:14 you might make it, but don't hang out at your stash for 10k tuns ok? 12:14 ;) 12:14 nah everything i need for planes is on dl1 12:15 and i have like 15 or so cursed gain levels on lvl 99 12:15 (or whatever VS is) 12:15 ok perfect 12:15 i don't like having to go back to main stash... i try to avoid that even in vanilla 12:16 if a spellbook is close to being forgotten i bring with me etc. 12:16 yeah I'm pretty much set with everything on me, and now I've got branchport to visit my stash on Soko 1 12:16 yeah exactly I packed some books too 12:16 i'm debating going and fighting demogorgon just for fun now though 12:16 he's on the level directly above VS 12:17 well you have the eye right?? I mean, before i have the amulet i go back and forth to my stash and soko all the time 12:17 did you ever hear what happened with grouchy's game ? 12:19 i havent 12:19 i didnt see any death message 12:19 so maybe he's playing it smart and taking a breather 12:20 he's still out there, and yes he said he wanted a couple of days to think and come back fresh 12:20 very smart 12:20 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:20 i used to be on that facebook group 12:20 yep, he's careful 12:20 and then i left facebook 12:20 right lol, who needs it 12:20 i sure dont 12:20 i never go on facebook. what's the group though ? lol 12:21 mostly people who want to post about their YASDs 12:21 i don't have, and never had, a facebook account 12:21 seems that facebook is going the myspace route though 12:21 been over 2 yrs, i have zero social media presence. reddit is probably as close as it gets 12:21 and i only post in r/nethack 12:21 but luckily instagram also belongs to facebook so 12:21 -!- stennowork has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:22 facebook served a purpose initally 12:22 one of the most nauseating things I can hear on a first date is when she says "Hey you can follow me on instagram" 12:22 yeah facebook was smart buying instagram... they knew the kids would not want to use FB where their parents are 12:22 was a good way to stay in touch with family and friends while deployed 12:22 good for high school reunion stuff 12:22 like, I take that as a mild red flag for some kind of narcissism lol 12:23 hahah 12:23 not always true, depends on how she is otherwise 12:23 but I've noticed that the cluster B types LOVE insta 12:23 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 12:23 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 12:25 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 12:25 somehow i always time this so i'm hitting 60k turns right when i'm making the run lol 12:26 in vanilla i overprepare, but i usually ascend in ~40k 12:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) was given Stormhelm, on T:50383 12:26 i'm almost tempted to just altar camp for a while, collect more scrolls/potions to polypile, get beefed up more, make more cursed geno for puprple rain etc. 12:27 are there other thresholds, k2? Does monster generation get even crazier at 80k turns too? or 100? etc? 12:28 nope 12:28 i have 500hp, -70ac, MC3 12:28 ok cool 12:28 but that gives me an idea 12:28 haha 12:28 damn it 12:28 >:-) 12:28 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) entered Gehennom for the first time, on T:44633 12:28 it's actually pretty sweet when it happens in a way because of all the loot you get from player monsters, etc. 12:28 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) polymorphed his first item, on T:13134 12:29 * K2 nerfs loot drops 12:29 LOL 12:29 :P 12:29 i hate you 12:29 awww 12:29 hugs 12:29 j/k 12:29 if i chill for a while and keep praying i can get my ac up 12:29 and hp 12:30 i'm really trying to pretend i didn't lose those wishes at the castle 12:30 aw, what happened? 12:30 a soldier or something got to the wand before me 12:30 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 117 points, T:308, killed by a newt 12:30 oh right, fug 12:31 i found it on the ground 0:0 12:31 did he at least wish for something good 12:31 no idea 12:31 that you could rob him of? 12:31 he didn't wish for the markers i want to wish for now or the magic harp 12:31 but i did ok... i mean, i'm here. planning my rodney attack 12:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping a dagger on an altar, on T:4017 12:32 i didn't really need the castle wand at all. had a pretty fortunate early game 12:32 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) killed Juiblex, on T:45018 12:32 i'll take 2 or 3 early wishes over the castle wand any day 12:34 in vanilla i can get to the castle wishless, but i haven't done that in EH yet 12:36 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:39 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) bribed Asmodeus with 166 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:45638 12:42 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) bribed Baalzebub with 452 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:45910 12:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon him by Mars, on T:13163 12:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] ichbinmiah (Val Hum Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:12066 12:48 !who 12:48 K2: [hdf-us] ichbinmiah [nh363] zoya [nh363] oh6 [nh363] hothraxxa [tnnt] Cevn [tnnt] jonathanhanes [tnnt] dbanethacker [tnnt] malor [dnh] AntiVirus [evil] Hratt [evil] Nobbs [nh343] | [hdf-eu] mightyquinn [evil] | [hdf-au] No current players 12:52 tfw trying to lure a Woodland elf to an altar and it eschews pursuing you in favor of falling into a visible spiked pit and dying instead 12:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) made his first wish - "blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:6330 12:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:6378 12:58 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 890 points, T:2499, killed by Ms. Siirt; the shopkeeper 12:59 stupid wraiths, not leaving corpses after going upstairs 13:03 <@Umby> is upstairs a grave level? 13:03 <@Umby> or just bad RNG 13:04 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1 13:07 probably bad RNG 13:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) destroyed Lich, the Fiend of Earth, on T:51930 13:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 473 points, T:2989, killed by a werejackal 13:10 cool, current monk has BoH 13:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Kary, the Fiend of Fire, on T:51963 13:10 gonna hope I don't YASD her too 13:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Kraken, the Fiend of Water, on T:52031 13:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Tiamat, the Fiend of Wind, on T:52070 13:13 AntiVirus: if it's the castle it IS a graveyard level 13:13 -!- StinkyGreene has joined #hardfought 13:14 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 1342340 points, T:55978, suffocated by a sea dragon 13:14 you've got to be kidding me 13:14 ugh 13:14 oh no 13:14 finkle IS einhorn! 13:14 :( 13:14 glub glub 13:14 doh rebatela 13:14 have fun with those bones antivirus 13:14 middle of gehennom somewhere 13:14 where the sea dragons hang out 13:15 <@IceBox> K2 what's the deal with dis (evilhack pick from another server) 13:15 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/636975958267658240/unknown.png 13:15 <@IceBox> on D:2 13:15 !lastgame rebatela 13:15 K2: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rebatela/evilhack/dumplog/1571384699.evil.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rebatela/dnethack/dumplog/1567799550.dnh.txt 13:15 @IceBox that's not entirely intentional 13:15 yeah i had a million things i could have done i'm sure 13:15 but it does make me chuckle 13:15 <@IceBox> haha, that would've been my assumption or i was just missing something 13:15 <@IceBox> just checking 🙂 13:16 i think that's only happened once. ever 13:16 that I know of 13:16 <@IceBox> twice now? 13:16 <{Demo}2> u can have it happen in dlvl 1 13:16 <@IceBox> lol, even evil-er 13:16 <{Demo}2> I've had it happen while scumming 13:17 i'm not 100% certain how to address that 13:17 but i should really start looking into it 13:17 <@IceBox> haha you can always just chuckle and call it evil 13:17 reba nooooo! 13:18 <@IceBox> would suck if it happened a significant distance into the game where you still dont have a way around it 13:18 bubbles_nh: the problem wasn't the pancake 13:18 but wielding two weapons at once in the same set of arms 13:18 that would happen to me rolling a wizard and getting magic missile spell, rings of free action and slow digestion, and a wand of death for starting inv 13:18 K2: what is the problem? 13:19 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/636975958267658240/unknown.png 13:19 ohhhh rebatela! 13:19 hmm 13:19 dude. wand of digging. :( 13:20 Was gonna say just that 13:20 but idk how that works in evil 13:20 i didnt change that behavior 13:20 like vanilla 13:21 wand of digging or death would have worked here 13:21 or tele yourself 13:21 btw k2, you should change the noises made when someone does that so that they suit the engulfer 13:21 oh no 13:21 K2: nice one 13:21 rebatela I am busy, brb 13:21 working for once 13:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 456 points, T:2073, killed by a dwarf king 13:21 perhaps just remove all iron bar special rooms on the dlvl1? 13:22 yeah... i know 13:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Kostchtchie, on T:52755 13:22 FIQ: that type of room is one of the random vault rooms like you can see in unnethack or sporkhack 13:22 i didn't realize what was going on 13:22 s /iron bar// 13:22 whatever 13:22 i cant specifiy level depth 13:22 i hope somoene finds the vones 13:22 bones 13:22 K2: hmm that kinda sucks 13:23 is it un4-style or un5-style vaults? 13:23 un5 allows further customization and power to vault creation 13:23 unnethack had some extra functions exposed to the level compiler (by paxed) so you could say 'dont make this vault room until level 3' 13:23 i mean... i had amulet of magical breathing ready for water plane 13:23 un5 13:23 cool 13:23 wasn't exactly expecting that in the depths of hell 13:23 but unnethack is the only 3.x based variant i know of that can do this 13:24 i'd love to have some of the vault rooms not appear until later 13:24 but i dont know how 13:24 [hdf-us] [4k] rockEat (Ssach) (Tou Scu Fem Neu), 2598 points, T:569, killed by a giant bat 13:25 at the very least, i should find a way to say 'if room has branch stairs, dont use random vault room for it' 13:25 but level/room generation code, i dont fully grok it 13:25 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 1997 points, T:1823, killed by a rothe 13:25 rebatela: yeah seeing a sea dragon in gehennom, kinda doesnt fit 13:26 but neither would white dragons 13:26 I give myself a 70% chance of figuring it out when I turn my attentions to that 13:26 or any monster that likes the cold 13:27 or water 13:27 or living 13:27 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 16 points, T:62, killed by a sewer rat 13:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 110 points, T:625, killed by a giant mimic 13:27 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:30 13:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Bael, on T:52987 13:28 wow that's rough. So far any sea dragon's I've seen get the finger 13:29 I might put on my magical breathing amulet until I find life saving just seeing how bad a threat drowning is 13:29 rebatela 13:30 did you have any teleportation methods? 13:30 no teleport level? 13:31 yes. i suck at the game 13:31 i had a million fucking things i should have done 13:31 do you have a time machine? 13:32 i didn't realize what was going on, obviously 13:32 only one that goes forward my friend 13:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 133 points, T:885, killed by a poisonous corpse 13:33 if it makes you feel any better, my game before this one I lost because I got engulfed by a fire vortex, remembered not to move, and simply teleport right away 13:33 -!- raisse has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:33 but it didn't matter, he caught me enough times 13:34 and eventually I could not escape 13:34 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:34 <@Tone> A soft fix for those caged stair rooms could be leaving a teleport scroll or similar there, like vanilla does in situations like that. Although tele would still leave you stuck on one side or the other. 13:34 Foe Evilhack used Fire Spin! 13:34 AntiVirus fainted! 13:34 lol 13:34 some of those vortexes are nasty 13:34 I actually used genocide on them this time 13:35 but, we can genocide dragons too...probably too many types of Ds though for that to be practical 13:35 i genocided black dragons in this game 13:35 *that game 13:35 sick 13:35 next time i will geno sea dragons 13:36 yeah like I said, I have been staying way back when I see them and hitting them with death rays 13:36 fuck getting strangled with -70ac and mc3. it's my fault because i didn't realize it was a sea dragon. but i wasn't dying to dragons at that point in the game 13:36 but I put on my MB amulet after hearing this 13:36 i wouldn't do that... you're more aware than me 13:37 K2 has definitely exploited using similar letters and colors 13:37 for example...anaconda looks like garter snake 13:37 there's a reason most people try to avoid making same colors for monsters 13:38 well, if you ask me it's a nice trick that some of these look the same as others 13:38 i thought it was shimmering or whatever 13:38 the colors are different, but only slightly 13:38 it was my fault though. i'm not blaming the game 13:38 i was careless 13:38 yep, exactly it looks like a couple other dragons 13:38 oddly enough the shimmering dragons are giving me more trouble that the sea dragons 13:38 shimmering resists death 13:39 i'm not the nethack savant some of y'all are 13:39 I'm sure I'll wipe out soon. You've lived 2x as long as my wizard 13:40 imagine calling people nethack savants while I'm in the room 13:40 pls 13:40 brb. 13:40 I was responsible for an entry or two on this 13:40 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Lessons_learned_the_hard_way 13:41 thats the thing, there's all new lessons to learn in EH 13:41 like I died doing melee with an Anaconda because I thought it was a garter snake 13:42 after that, I stopped taking monster appearance for granted 13:42 wew 13:42 https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Lessons_learned_the_hard_way&diff=125683&oldid=125672 here's mine 13:42 yeah anaoconda's engulf and ruin your day 13:42 for those of you wondering :B 13:42 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:42 nice link, that will be a fun read 13:44 umbire_: I can finally sleep at night 13:45 knowing someone was just as galaxy brained? 13:45 yeah, you're welcome :B 13:45 I forget how many months ago it was 13:45 might want to check your sarcasm detector ;) 13:45 but I know it was a long while ago, and I was a valk on the castle floor iirc 13:46 same to you :B 13:46 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1606 points, T:1573, killed by a gnomish wizard 13:47 * hothraxxa . o O { why the fuck does this sarcasm detector keep going off? } 13:51 for real, though, the stupidest deaths are usually the most humbling 13:52 good to know 13:52 if not the most enlightening 13:52 and they happen to even the best of players 13:52 that's reassuring 13:53 the booze helps 13:53 now I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic 13:53 the booze might be part of the problem in this case, actually 13:53 Umbire_ me neither 13:53 HUI 13:53 :P 13:54 apparently kicking anything/anyone ever in sokoban wakes the fuck out of people 13:54 where are you playing? 13:54 but punching someone spine out doesn't? 13:54 on my phone like a loser :B 13:55 I might take to recording those playthroughs though 13:55 you shouldn't be so afraid to play in public, hacker. most people don't analyze everyone's games. some do... 13:56 not afraid at all 13:56 just haven't had the most ideal means to 13:56 just messing with ya 13:56 oh 13:56 lol 13:57 mobile's not too much different anyway sans risk of fatal fat fingers 13:57 i'm playing on a $200 laptop i bought like 6 or 7 years ago 13:57 and there's also a bunch of preset shortcut buttons 13:57 but then you decide to use the default keyboard anyway like a sensible person and memorize command 13:57 commands* 13:57 i think you can use tiles on hdf if that's your worry.. we won't laugh 13:58 lmao 13:58 I might try playing without soon just to adjust to the look 13:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Daemon, on T:54761 13:59 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:59 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:00 when i look at someone's screeshot of a tile game? I can't even tell what's going on . LIke, at all 14:00 huh, that's an unfamiliar name 14:00 <@IceBox> nethack tiles look like a game made for ants 14:00 also why's that-- oh 14:00 I mean not wrong 14:00 some artists rendition on an 8x8 tile or whatever. I can't imagine being able to play like that. And i've tried 14:00 being able to zoom and scroll the play screen on mobile is a god send 14:01 i really hope antivirus encounters my ghost 14:01 it's the only way i will feel better 14:01 (besides the aformentioned booze) 14:01 !lastgame rebatela 14:01 AntiVirus: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rebatela/evilhack/dumplog/1571384699.evil.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rebatela/dnethack/dumplog/1567799550.dnh.txt 14:02 haha that tshirt is epic 14:02 I need it 14:02 is it dragonhide? 14:02 i don't even remember 14:02 yeah, mine is not 14:02 antivirus: how far down are you? 14:03 just a cloth hawaiian 14:03 I'm at the castle now 14:03 but also I have a busy day here, so I won't make much progress today 14:03 ah so a long way to go 14:04 yep, rebatela is like 25k turns further in than me 14:04 not any more 14:04 F it.. I'm starting a new game, I'll go get the $hit myself before hothraxxa does 14:04 yeah wow those a killer bones 14:05 well, my stuff for the planes is on DL1 14:05 nah, i'll be playing tnnt beta until tnnt 14:05 but yeah that's a kit right there 14:05 sure but anyone who gets there will have a kit already 14:05 it's the markers 14:05 true 14:06 two wishes 14:06 although eyes of overworld could be nice 14:06 is this the famous 0:0 wand? 14:06 yeah 14:06 shitload of teleport wands, death wands 14:06 they'd be nice 14:06 yeah I can see that, life saving amulet 14:07 lots of teleport scrolls. i'm going to get to those bones first.. glad you're busy 14:07 4 cursed genocide 14:07 (probably didn't even leave bones) 14:07 the plan was to write many more cursed genos 14:07 what is it, 1 in 3 chance of bones? 14:07 I guess I'll know when I get to lvl 50 14:07 i had like 15 taming scrolls or something on dl1 14:08 whut? trying to channel oh6 are you? 14:08 along with more teleport, digging, death wands etc 14:08 i love watching oh6 play :) 14:08 he certainly ummm, makes sure 14:08 i've learned many a thing from you and oh6 14:08 i think it's a she? not sure 14:09 no, oh6 is male 14:09 oh ok 14:09 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:20077 14:09 way to go dude!!! 14:09 yay 14:09 lol 14:09 how to watch? 14:09 sorry for thinking you're a chick!! you're still fun to watch 14:09 select w from the dgl menu 14:09 like I know how, more where rather 14:10 uhhhh hdf us? 14:10 when in doubt, singular they ;B 14:10 yeah well that's what i do 14:10 yeah, was wondering about the specific menu on the sit 14:10 site* 14:10 w 14:11 somtimes it's easier to watch games on the web client 14:11 so i hit orcus with molly and blew up his wand :( 14:11 noob move 14:11 just like luxi's wand of death and his wand of wishing 14:11 so i'm down 3 14:12 lucky me, i don't need any of them 14:12 i can't watch antivirus' game if i ssh because of the graphics. but if i go to the web client i can see his game 14:13 Shoot, which server? 14:13 for what? 14:13 I see Thrax and IceBox but no oh 14:13 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 14:14 oh6 plays on the us server, so if you can't see him then he isn't playing 14:14 maybe he's playing on his phone... 14:14 lol 14:14 he probably just quit after soko 14:14 -!- StinkyGreene has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:14 plays on US 14:14 yeah lots of people have trouble seeing my game 14:15 but when he goes to astral he makes like 200 purple worms and has hundreds of cockatrice eggs etc. 14:15 bug_sniper said he had to turn off utf8 14:15 Umbire_: you can tell which server whenever beholder livelogs something 14:15 noted 14:15 so above, you can see oh6 is on the us server 14:15 watching you now 14:15 gah! 14:15 I probably tweaked my putty settings so that this game looks like good old DOS/CMD 14:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 helm of brilliance", on T:34690 14:15 it looks fine on the webclient, antivirus 14:16 game looks like it's still idle 14:16 [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "fixed greased magic marker named off brand rose art", on T:34699 14:17 k2 can probably tell if i left bones 14:17 i'm gonna beat you there.. go back to work 14:17 can't actually see the play field 14:17 press s 14:17 a couple times 14:17 haha yeah truly I have tons to do today, we are mid email migration 14:17 no like 14:18 it's visible but the game messages are over it 14:18 need to resize 14:18 press r 14:18 and then ctrl- 14:18 then r again 14:18 until it fits 14:18 go back and forth between r and ctrl- basically 14:19 (at least that's what i do) 14:19 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 14:19 alright 14:19 sec 14:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 18370 points, T:7770, quit 14:20 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 62 points, T:159, killed by Mr. Rath Luirc; the shopkeeper 14:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 23 points, T:225, killed by a goblin, while sleeping 14:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:35053 14:22 now it's updating all weird 14:24 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) killed Orcus, on T:46943 14:24 think it's settled now 14:24 status line is still a bit borky 14:25 when you see the list of games, it shows the size people have... if it's not 80x24, you need to adjust 14:25 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:25 yeah then you need to ctrl - again and r again 14:25 and there's just qs everywhere 14:25 it will end up being small 14:25 but it's because they have a bigger display 14:25 eventually you can fit it though 14:25 why can I scroll the h term window 14:25 that's annoying 14:25 it's why i don't like curses 14:26 i like people who play 80x24 tty 14:27 yeah, it's fine now save for the status line 14:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 1131 points, T:2525, killed by a giant bat 14:27 try to watch hothraxxas game on the web client... i just did it but it ends up being tiny to fit on my laptop screen 14:28 if the status line is messed up you need to ctrl - again and then r again and it ends up being tiny to fit on your screen because he probably is playing nethack on a wall of his house 14:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Ran Elf Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:6012 14:29 are you trying to fit it on your PHONE??? 14:29 you and this phone thing 14:29 I'm starting to think you have a problem :B 14:29 also I was already on the web client lul 14:29 it's 2019. phones are used for everything now 14:30 [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:14899 14:30 yeah, but if you're going to comment every time someone dies and hit !lastgame or whatever and analyze it, but you're playing locally? I dunno. I think it deserves a rubbing 14:31 I'd do that regardless, I'm not pretending I'm necessarily better 14:31 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 14:31 sometimes I get invested in people's games 14:31 but we can't do it to you 14:31 you might not even be playing 14:31 and i asked if you were trying to watch on your phone. It was serious question 14:32 that'd be a lot of pointless effort to maintain some arbitrary illusion, then 14:32 and no, browser 14:32 hi Luxi 14:32 so you obviously have a computer... and you're choosing to play locally, but commenting on all our games, and we can't return the favor 14:32 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 14:32 <@luxidream> hi 14:32 Hello @luxidream, Welcome to #hardfought 14:32 Phones are not for nethack 14:32 unless I can get a fullsize keyboard on that thing 14:32 lots of people save scum and use tiles... 14:33 I am not lots of people 14:33 :y 14:33 tiles are for finding your keys and wallet 14:33 but they usually don't critcize every single game people are playing on a public server 14:33 my computer doesn't have a numpad and I'd prefer to play on a keyboard with one 14:33 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:47788 14:33 I don't criticize literally every game, relax 14:33 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 14:33 ahhh tiles and numpad 14:33 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) picked up the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:47790 14:34 you'll pry my numpad from my cold dead hands 14:34 i'm plenty relaxed. but you make comments about people as soon as they die and you're not subjecting yourself to the same thing 14:34 I also don't usually hide when I beef it in stupid/embarrassing ways 14:34 <{Demo}2> numpads r for the WEAK 14:34 have the prayer rules changed? instead of getting 1d5 hp i get 1 every time on the first low health pray? 14:35 I think it depends on your base HP and other stats 14:35 pfft 14:35 I have a DOPE numpad 14:35 like this one 14:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0fH6zMbavw 14:36 <{Demo}2> i have less overhead 14:36 y'all should learn vi keys. it will change your nh world 14:36 I know them, but when I want to make sure I select the right diagonal, I'm not taking that chance 14:36 yeah, but it becomes habit.. worth it imo 14:36 also helps in vim ; ) 14:37 Also numpads 14:37 hmmmm 14:37 Cevn: probably bad luck 14:37 then you're not moving your hands around and you hit the other letters with your right hand that you probably move your left hand all over the kb for 14:37 I see your point 14:37 I'm saying this as a former numpad user 14:37 you stay on home row 14:37 luxidream: word it was like 5 in a row so I guess my luck is terrible 14:37 good for speed 14:37 eh 14:38 unlikely things happen in nethack 14:38 yeah it's just like you're typing 14:38 I use numpad and I'm pretty comfortable with it 14:38 I mean, I have some pretty awesome keyboards that are 60% size, you would like them 14:38 they don't have a number pad or function row 14:38 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38 <{Demo}2> less hand stress for me using vikeys 14:39 i used to use numpad and then i listened to what people had to say and learned the right way to play. And there's no looking back 14:40 also played rogue as a kid and there was no choice lol 14:40 <@IceBox> no judgement either way but vi-keys is great and you're a better person if you use them 14:40 lies 14:40 <@IceBox> dont shoot the messenger, just delivering objective infallible truth 14:40 truths 14:40 I do map vikeys to the number pad though 14:40 so I guess I'm cheating 14:41 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 14:41 lol 14:41 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 14:41 you learn the hardest part of the vim learning curve by playing vikeys 14:41 <@IceBox> there's a level of heaven that can only be accessed using VI-keys, at least that's what i've read 14:41 i didn't mean this to turn into a numpad debate... i think umby should play with us online that's all :) 14:41 join the club 14:41 @IceBox that's Lisp programming. 14:41 <@IceBox> no that's like super super heaven 14:41 I use the arrow keys in vi 14:41 shoot me 14:41 lol 14:41 there is no debate 14:41 numpad or die 14:42 * aosdict dies 14:42 unfortunately yubn doesn't work 14:42 :P 14:42 in vim 14:42 how do i do a verb thing like that? 14:42 <{Demo}2> luxi isnt vikeys faster for realtime than numpad? 14:42 like rebatela dies? 14:42 rebatela: /me dies 14:42 rebatela: most clients do /me 14:42 /me 14:42 i use numpad 14:42 * rebatela dies 14:42 rebatela dies 14:42 demo: yes because numpad doesn't have control+move 14:42 {Demo}2 its whatever you're most comfortable with, thats most fastest 14:42 i once played a whole summer on a laptop without a numpad 14:42 so i used the top row number keys 14:42 * rebatela drinks 14:42 wtf 14:42 yay 14:42 sweet 14:42 <{Demo}2> yeah but k2 given 400 hours of play on numpads vs 400 hours of play on vikeys, vikeys is faster 14:42 sounds gross 14:42 hence why I map hjklyubn to numpad 14:43 hothraxxa: i started playing like that 14:43 poll: how many people here know of the 'hunter2' thing? 14:43 <{Demo}2> oh that makes sense 14:43 aosdict: i know 14:43 I'd like to have a numpad but I definitely would rather hjklyubn rather than toprow 14:43 i assume that most people in hacker culture know hunter2 :D 14:43 if picking between those 14:43 or rather ******* 14:44 i switched from top row numbers to vikeys 14:44 <{Demo}2> i started playing on toprow for a lot of years, then did numpad for a few years, and then learned vikeys 14:44 aosdict: i know from when i used to peruse bash.org 14:44 but it was on a german keyboard, so z and y were switched 14:44 so i actually taught myself the US layout 14:44 stenno: we have qwertz options in vanilla now right? 14:44 and now its so much better for programming 14:45 is that in vanilla? i first saw it in unnethack 14:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 5108 points, T:3816, killed by a soldier ant 14:45 thats nice 14:45 go team a! 14:45 maybe it was also patched into NEU 14:45 also I legit forget qwertz exists sometimes 14:46 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 14:46 crazy disconnects all the time 14:47 there's an antivirus joke in there somewhere but I'm not funny enough 14:47 anticlimacticvirus 14:47 quarantined? 14:48 IDK 14:48 I picked this handle when I was like 12, and it stuck 14:48 that was back in the days when you could use all kinds of symbols in a username 14:48 I can't even type in how it was originally lettered lol 14:49 freenode won't take it 14:49 " /|nti|/irus " 14:49 AH! there it goes 14:49 I can probably hazard a guess 14:49 haha 14:49 aw 14:49 good luck putting in some slashes and pipes in your username 14:49 I expected something more elaborate 14:49 lmao 14:49 nah kept itsimple 14:49 :B 14:50 but it's much better looking that way 14:50 4nt1V1ru3 14:50 hahahaa 14:50 l33t d00d 14:50 4nt1V1ru5* 14:50 little did I know by using this name, I was damning myself to a career in IT 14:51 ;) 14:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:20120 14:51 such a horrible fate that I could never once envision sharing 14:52 i didn't even have to fight that dragon... i could have TAMED that dragon. wtf is wrong w/ me? :( 14:52 ;D 14:52 nothing 14:52 except hindsight bias 14:52 i hereby quit nethack and all variants associated with nethack. Aosdict, remove me from tnnt. I wish you all the best 14:52 yeah, it pays heh 14:52 you always think of a million other things you could've done after the fact 14:53 [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) was chosen to take lives for the Glory of Anhur, on T:20203 14:53 something something stages of grief 14:53 heh 14:53 the sarcasm geiger counter is going crazy 14:53 no i'm pissed 14:53 so we're not removing you from tnnt 14:53 not being sarcastic 14:53 I'm not complaining, IT can take you right to the C suite. There's plenty of opportunity and I never get bored 14:53 i am definitely going through the stages 14:53 IT is a dream career for me now 14:54 * rebatela takes swig 14:54 the best way I deal with it, is to remind myself what I'm never going to forget 14:54 much politer than JarlEarl 14:54 even with the absolute state of Big Tech[tm] and this whole IoT bullshit 14:54 nice dude, get some certs, and join a helpdesk. Either order you like on that 14:54 but for starters, build yourself a PC for gods sake lol 14:54 I have a few certs, will look into things probably after I get my permit 14:55 Umbire_: your .. computer building permit ? 14:55 oh so you're a kid? I'm sorry for busting your balls, man 14:55 I'm 26. 14:55 * rebatela hangs head in shame 14:55 oh 14:56 Talking driver's permit 14:56 * rebatela laughs at umby 14:56 hothraxxa would consider you a kid 14:56 yea i know some people that got it late 14:56 I lived in New York most of my life so I've never had to drive anywhere when a bus or train would suffice 14:56 (also have you seen Queens Blvd???) 14:56 if it means anything? i just turned 40 and if i want to drive i have to also get my permit, take test etc. 14:56 it was another new yorker so i think it must be a point of pride for them 14:57 I don't have a driving permit, and I'm moving to new york where I will continue not to need one 14:57 I got mine at 18 and I thought it was late :/ 14:57 <{Demo}2> isnt there only one point of pride in nyc and its being an asshole? 14:57 yeah.. no need for a car in the city 14:57 <{Demo}2> damn i should move to nyc 14:57 <{Demo}2> cause im an asshole 14:57 im in boston and i do fine on foot 14:57 iirc raisse also doesn't have one 14:57 wish I could just bike everywhere 14:57 yeah, walking everywhere is a big plus to have 14:57 but everything is too far away 14:58 looking to at least get a bike as well 14:58 if for no other sake than exercise 14:59 if you already have certs, put that stuff on linkedin and turn on the switch that says you are available for recruiters 15:00 bet you you'll have offers upon offers upon offers 15:00 ooh 15:00 that's all I do 15:00 job hunting is stupid easy in IT 15:00 watching blargs rn, beehive near an altar 15:00 sweet 15:00 yeah I was born in SD, driving was a must 15:01 in Chicago, I never touched my car 15:01 for sure 15:01 mom dragged me along to a b'day vacation in SD 15:01 in the Bay Area, its cars and transit 15:01 wait no 15:01 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:01 I'm thinking of LA 15:01 I'm cooked 15:01 pretty close by tho, but very different 15:02 I wonder what zblarg's doing 15:02 probably filling out his spell list 15:04 just realized, I've never actually seen the quest as a wiz 15:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1925 15:04 wiz is my jam 15:04 i also lose very often 15:05 AntiVirus: are you AntiGulp 15:05 or do we have 2 Antis in here 15:05 i saw a new thing the other day where I found a piece of missing C code, it didn't even come up whwen I googled it... wonder what it was for, I died before I could find out 15:05 nah 15:05 two Antis 15:05 ahh 15:05 I mean I've never seen gulp and virus in here at the same time... 15:05 they're multiplying! 15:05 :B 15:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:56630 15:06 just after mentioning it I found it again. that was really weird 15:06 @cevn: but do you lose by accidentally spawning a horde of coautl and then getting swamped to death 15:06 while altar camping no less 15:07 No, i'll have to try that one out. I dont think i've ever wanted to reverse genocide coautl lol 15:07 reverse geno 15:07 pls 15:07 this was old fashion create monster spam 15:07 oof 15:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:56726 15:08 hello bones 15:08 >killed by a touch of death 15:09 shapeshifter turn nasty? 15:09 so if you're on mobile, how do you get bones? 15:09 hearse 15:09 like, who's are they? 15:09 yeah, hearse 15:09 bones service for local 15:09 also commenting on a game I'm watching 15:10 oh cool 15:10 guy found the grave of someone who ate ToD 15:10 oop, BoH is cursed 15:10 I heard you get insane bones compared to server 15:11 you can, potentially 15:11 but probably no different than server bones 15:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] klintos (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 174 points, T:473, killed by a coyote 15:12 huh, traded the mail for cursed scales 15:12 just to get that extra point 15:13 I respect it tbh 15:13 hm, if it's different i'd guess hearse users are hardcore players so you get more dramatic splats and fewer boring early-game deaths to floating eyes and stuff 15:13 I HAVE gotten more deeper-in-dungeons bones in comparison 15:13 to how it used to be 15:13 though more "mundane" bones still show up 15:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:56939 15:14 more hardcore than server players? 15:15 prob. not lmao 15:15 though I DID find someone who died with the amulet on them 15:15 (or at least I presume it was the amulet) 15:15 couple times I think? 15:15 Umby has been sharing some mobile screenshots rebatela 15:16 def. one with my current on-hold tourist 15:16 via discord if I'm not mistaken 15:16 iirc I mentioned them having mjolnir 15:16 correct AV 15:16 but still not as good as being able to spectate 15:16 not wrong lol 15:17 I actually should record the next fresh playthrough I start from scratch 15:19 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:20 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:21 ...oh god 15:21 I got up to make some food and the guy got level drained to hell D: 15:22 god I love cone of cold 15:22 I've never gotten much chance to use that 15:23 your games are auto recorded right? 15:24 do you mean mine specifically? 15:24 if so, no 15:25 like, recorded for playback tty-style, right? 15:25 yeah 15:26 i mean if you're playing here 15:26 oh, I haven't started doing that just yet 15:26 'yet' being the key words 15:26 ahh ohk 15:28 umbire, as a wizard with attack spells enhanced all the way it throws down a multiple ice blasts and doesn't seem to do much damage to armor and weapons. Many monsters are fire resistant, but not so many are cold resistant 15:28 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder 15:28 -!- card.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ ¤ public irc logs available on website ¤ ssh nethack@hardfought.org, nethack@eu.hardfought.org or nethack@au.hardfought.org ¤ TNNT 2019! Public BETA is now open, please report any bugs or issues 15:28 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 15:28 and plus I have the eye of aethiopica so I get that energy back in a few steps 15:28 !whereis jonathanhanes 15:28 K2: [hdf-us] jonathanhanes [tnnt]: (Tou Hum Mal Neu) T:30028 Vlad's Tower level: 36 15:28 it does wonders for clearing huge rooms 15:28 wewt 15:28 mostly it's just that I rarely get it in a game where I can use it let alone enhance it that far 15:29 Super Tourist Bros. 3 with Jonny Hanes 15:34 qw 15:35 how good is gold dragon armor in EH 15:35 oh balls, another bag of holding 15:35 I have MR from the eye now...maybe make a change 15:35 I wanted reflection 15:35 sickness resistance... 15:35 yeah.... 15:35 well I don't have that currently TBH 15:35 i don't wear body armor. so i have no idea 15:35 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 6734 points, T:3194, killed by a dwarf 15:35 i need strangulation resistance 15:35 reba confirmed for IRL monk 15:36 last 3 deaths- water elemntal, gelatinous cube, sea dragon 15:36 sea dragon scales lmao 15:36 it's just like vanilla! no, it's not. because ive never died to any of those things in vanilla lol 15:36 yeah I gotta say I've had you in mind when keeping this magical breathing amulet on 15:36 you don't need to 15:36 so thanks for scouting ahead dude 15:36 i don't pay attention 15:36 you would notice what was going on and react 15:36 maybe, I get into bad habits too 15:37 like, ride the spacebar 15:37 so EH gold dragons are basically the bastard offspring of green dragons? 15:37 what? no, they're more like red dragons 15:37 oh gold dragon scale also provides light 15:37 yeah they glow 15:38 don't wear magic breathing dude... it's a waste 15:38 wear it on the water plane 15:38 yeah I just keep it handy 15:38 wear flying or relfection or life sving or wahtever else 15:38 in case I see an elemental or dragon 15:38 i just fucked up 15:38 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack#Dragon_scale_mail 15:38 illithid get flying 15:38 that was 100% my fault 15:38 ^ havent added sea dragons yet 15:38 you wouldn't have died there 15:39 I presumed from the sickness resistance of gold dragon armor that they had like 15:39 sickness blasts or something 15:39 omega halitosis 15:39 sea dragon it would be sick if it had water walk and breathing 15:40 for the scales 15:40 wew 15:40 i'm serious. don't wear water breathing the whole game. i blanked out there 15:40 AntiVirus it does 15:40 err no 15:40 swimming and magical breathing 15:40 i was drinking and my friend showed up and i kept playing and didn't realize it was a sea dragon 15:40 try going for a swim while wearing water walking boots... cant 15:41 should have saved when my boy showed up and i didn't take the teal? colored dragon seriously 15:41 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 1545 points, T:682, killed by a gnome 15:42 nooooo I almost saved my cat from a gargoyle 15:43 you rat bastard 15:43 you need to ascend before he nerfs illithid, antivirus... 15:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:58612 15:43 true 15:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:7975 15:44 go @malor go 15:44 * K2 nerfs illithid 15:44 TOO LATE 15:44 <@malor> thanks 15:45 gl man! 15:45 lol 15:47 i'm going back to super mario 3 15:47 two warp wistles and some mad jumpings skills are all ya need there 15:47 anyone played mario maker? never had it but it looked cool 15:48 no, but smb 1 and smb3 are the best games ever 15:49 at castle, found a chest 15:49 wand of slow monster??? 15:49 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in6RZzdGki8&t=960s 15:49 there must be another chest. This castle layout is all new to me 15:49 may as well just #quit now. you got the slow monster castle instead of the wishing castle 15:49 SMB 3 is great. 15:49 I have it on gba and NES. 15:49 maybe i can wield it to kill Vlad 15:49 I'm set 15:50 aosdict: ya i was 10 wehen smb3 came out . played it that whole summer 15:50 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50 antivirus: wield it for vlad for sure! he's even easier in EH than in vanilla 15:50 heh 15:50 I also have SMB 1 and 2 but 1 is nintendo hard and 2 is the black sheep of mario games 15:51 you can give him a dirty look and he just hands over the candelabrumi 15:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8544 15:51 hmm, actually it might be worth it to switch to red dragon scale given I have another source of MR 15:51 2 is not a mario game 15:51 aosdict I didnt picture you as a console gamer 15:51 +1d6 melee and fire attack 15:51 my ex-wife loved it... that says it all right there 15:51 passive fire attack if hit 15:52 K2: I own four nintendo consoles, the most recent one is the wii (no wiiu/switch) and the last time I played any games on them was years ago 15:52 ah right 15:52 1d6 bonus damage to your own melee 15:52 orginal NES if you're the right age, we all played i think 15:52 sounds kinda cool 15:52 even if you didn't have it, your friends did 15:52 rebatela: legend of zelda. best game. 15:52 hell ya 15:53 I always wondered why they couldn't put a save system in mario games if they could in zelda. 15:53 alll the games nintendo puts their name on, even with the wii and i'm assuming switch are awesome 15:53 aosdict: this was our first ever console game for our family - https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6f/89/7f/6f897f7f70b297e62f7666be74048305.jpg 15:53 because it's an arcade game!! you die. like nethack 15:53 i raised 2 boys. i'm all alone these days. but we used to play video games 15:54 <@Umby> bah, wasn't watching my battery 15:54 is it ok??? 15:54 maybe you can charge it? 15:54 rebatela: It's rare that you have the time to play those games through to completion though. 15:54 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 15:54 oh, but in the summer of 90 when you just turned 11 you have all day ;) 15:54 there we go 15:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Brd Dro Fem Cha), 647 points, T:1484, killed by a brown mold 15:55 and that's when smb3 came out 15:55 and there he goes 15:55 you could continue 15:55 the best was remember after beating zelda, you started over and everthing was harder? like a second quest or whatever 15:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 780 points, T:1045, killed by a wand 15:55 pretty cool for the tech of those days 15:56 second quest was the term, yes 15:56 then there's finding out you could access it instantly 15:57 I never played the second quest. Might want to do it unspoiled. 15:57 good luck when you do so 15:57 it's NES era gaming so it's some shit 15:58 no we beat both quests for sure.. there was nothing else to do.. those games were state of the art at the time 15:58 I meant aos 15:58 also played rogue and hack around that time 15:58 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:9547 15:58 and yeah the first LoZ gave a lot for what it was 15:59 watching malor on the planes. very jealous 15:59 !who 15:59 AntiVirus: [hdf-us] ichbinmiah [nh363] samiam [nh363] hothraxxa [tnnt] klintos [tnnt] Bartlem [tnnt] Cevn [tnnt] malor [dnh] dragonspeaker [dnh] AntiVirus [evil] hackedhead [nh4] | [hdf-eu] asdf [nh363] marie [nh363] spontiff [nh363] Vis [nh363] Raisse [tnnt] khamul [tnnt] | [hdf-au] No current players 15:59 antivirus: did you join a clan yet for tnnt? 15:59 nah 16:00 i don't like the way some people get when there are tournaments... there i said it. 16:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) destroyed Pestilence, on T:59065 16:00 I've always been drawn to the solitaire aspect of rogue-likes 16:01 that said, tnnt is kind of a laid back clan of good players... 16:02 who aren't sure if they are going to play much 16:03 yes but I'm out of slots 16:03 oh nvm 16:03 i hope whatever clan you join dies 16:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) wished for "rustproof +2 helm of opposite alignment", on T:59136 16:04 I wonder if winny is coming back for tnnt. they're in the channel... 16:04 he can take my slot. i'm too busy crying and being a wiseass on freenode 16:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Law), 8611542 points, T:59141, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/m/malor/dnethack/dumplog/1571736807.dnh.txt 16:04 congrats malor! 16:04 <@malor> I did it, I finally achieved "weaponless"! 16:04 <@malor> thanks 16:05 nice :) 16:05 yeah, it's a hassle right? 16:05 you basically have to not carry a pickaxe 16:05 <@malor> Yes, because sometimes a monster appears when you are pick-axing 🙂 16:05 exactly 16:05 <@malor> I still did, but I was pretty careful, obviously. 16:05 GG malor! 16:05 <@malor> thanks 16:06 congrats.. i know how hard that is 16:07 i've gotten the conduct a few times, but soon as i break it i bless that pickaxe to +7 and go to town lol 16:08 <@malor> lol 16:08 how fast does elbereth degrade now? 16:09 i almost always play weaponless.. but getting the conduct is an achievment for sure 16:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Pri Hlf Fem Neu), 1021 points, T:1835, killed by a giant bat 16:09 I had 2 written and waited 5 turns and died cuz they both failed.. 16:09 ugh 16:09 <@malor> as a monk I am always weaponless, but only 1 out of 3 monk ascensions actually achieved the conduct. In my previous "best" I hit with a wielded weapon "one time". 🙂 16:11 same here 16:11 eventually i stopped caring about getting the conduct.. i play weaponless by choice. it's just easier and i like martial arts. 16:11 Cevn 3.6.x e word degrades as you attack while standing on it if i recall 16:11 yeah I wasn't attacking just . for rest 16:11 i'm not the authority on that as i dont use e word 16:11 it's still nice to et it though 16:11 Cevn, in 3.6.1 the text on the square must be exactly "Elbereth" 16:11 ^ 16:12 substring no longer works 16:12 FFFFF 16:12 It also vanishes if you attack while on it 16:12 thats huge.. 16:12 completely different from 3.4.3 16:12 yup 16:12 <@malor> In dnethack the conduct has actual in-game benefits also. Your deity is more likely to give you an "armor item" if you are weaponless. 16:12 ok good to know... 16:12 oh that's very cool 16:12 v. nice 16:13 F elbereth e 16:13 [hdf-us] [nh363] ichbinmiah (Val Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:16841 16:13 and people complained last year that you got points for no elbereth 16:13 K2: The behavior you describe is 3.6.0 only. 16:14 it's so easy i didn't do it! 16:14 mm 16:14 Well, in 3.6.1 I guess it vanishes completely. 16:14 it never occurs to me to use elbereth because luckily i didn't learn the game that way 16:15 you should get 1000 points for no elbereth 16:15 sure does aos 16:18 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in] 16:18 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 16:18 how do you mail people in-game again? 16:19 m 16:19 o 16:20 ty 16:20 m for 'mmmm MMM' 16:23 elbereth should just be removed completely.. play 3.4.3 if you want. i hope they do that 16:24 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) wished for "blessed amulet of life saving", on T:24353 16:25 rebatela: I suggested this for EH but it would work fine in any variant; un-nerf the E word in every other respect. One use per game. 16:25 i like how e word is in evilhack right now 16:25 you can use it but you have to learn it in game first :P 16:26 i had another idea for it also but not sure if i want to move forward with it or not 16:26 Eh, if I wanted my ideas in a variant I'd do my own variant. :-) 16:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Inc Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2515 16:27 I can't seem to ascent 3.6, I feel like the game was gimped for normal people to prevent score scumming 16:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Kni Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:14043 16:27 last thing this game needed was to be harder 16:27 K2: That just makes your power spike bigger. 16:27 k2: yeah your solution isn't bad.. but i would have just gotten rid of it completley 16:27 <{Demo}2> Cevn you'd love evilhack then :P 16:27 power spike bigger 16:28 yeah? 16:28 wut? 16:28 your solution is creative though... like, how would you know to carve elbereth?/ 16:28 you would need to read it somewhere.. makes sense 16:28 K2: by the midgame when you've visited sokoban you know elbereth and can use it at will 16:28 stenno: yes, NEU had the qwerty option as well. I'm not sure if the same patch, I remember reading about a patch before I knew NEU (or predecessor) existing 16:28 i haven't looked at the scoring for this year yet 16:29 but i think last year you got 50 points for elberethless? 16:29 i still dont catch your meaning 'power spike bigger' 16:29 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) wished for "Blessed +3 Fixed dragonhide cloak of protection", on T:24361 16:29 why would anyone have a problem with that? Well, i could have done that but .. well do it!! if you know the points are there and it's SO easy that it shouldn't be worth so many points... 16:30 what power spike aosdict? 16:31 -!- ichbinmiah has quit [] 16:32 a lot of people are stuck on 3.4.3 because they rely on E word instead of learning how to keep themselves out of those situations. 16:32 bhaak: i see 16:32 <@Tone> Elbereth is a pretty unique mechanic as far as roguelikes go, I don't see why they'd want to remove it. Also the game is kinda balanced with it in mind imo 16:32 did anyone understand what aosdict meant by 'power spike' ? or am I just dense 16:33 K2, I think it has to do with it that it makes Elbereth unavailable when it would be most useful 16:33 K2: the "midgame power spike" 16:33 ah 16:33 usually referring to vanilla 16:33 so i'm dense 16:33 got it 16:33 by the time you finish mines and sokoban 16:34 I think he's talking about when you become a superhero and nothing cant touch you 16:34 <@Tone> They overbuffed it a tiny bit between 360 and 361 probably, but it's in a reasonable spot I think 16:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bin Gno Mal Non), 110 points, T:95, killed by a newt 16:34 huge AC, good gear and a few wishes 16:34 it's the counterpoint to a difficulty spike 16:34 you usually have a converted altar, ability to sacrifice for $artifact, probably have some protection from a priest, can pray for holy water to get it effectively unlimited 16:35 so evilhack augments that by adding 'can now use elbereth' to that list 16:35 right I kindof refer to that as the game "opening up" 16:35 I get what you mean 16:35 me currently - https://media.tenor.com/images/a8b2c467e37ca5400423714215cf61c2/tenor.gif 16:36 as a consequence of the holy water: unihorn if any gets better, you can use blessed EW and EA to really buff your armor and weapon, etc, etc 16:36 ooh, t-shirt in a beehive 16:36 hope it reads "NOT THE BEES" 16:38 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) wished for "Blessed +3 Grayswandir", on T:24364 16:38 failed wish ^ 16:39 as a wizard 16:39 i wouldnt have wished for that :/ 16:39 I've kicked butt with it before when well enchanted, but I see your point ;) 16:39 it still hits like a truck 16:40 a butterknife for demons 16:41 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:41 What the Dave the Speleologist lol 16:41 die basdard, gimmie my saber 16:43 ha! roasted 16:43 tone: elbereth is unique in that when you are supposed to die, you instead carve elbereth and monsters flee from you 16:44 and in pre-3.6 version you can then attack them in the back as they run from you from the uinique mehanism 16:44 and even carve it all over the place and drop a gold piece 16:44 AoLS also provide a mechanism where when you're supposed to die you don't 16:44 or use it on the upstair in gehennom and fight a demon lord 16:44 it's cheating 16:45 right... but then the AoLS crumbles to dust, and you have to find one in the first place 16:46 <@Tone> I don't know, people who use Elbereth die all the time anyways 16:46 <@IceBox> i feel personally attacked 16:46 tone: i remember you being one of the outspoken ones about elberethless being worth so many points... it's a different game when you can't just say "oh no i'm going to die" 'and carve E 16:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Inc Fem Law), 12672 points, T:4180, killed by a mountain centaur 16:47 <@IceBox> as mid-range player i definitely though E-less was pretty easy to do, because some games i kinda forget about it entirely (unless i have magicbane, then i'm poppin it off like a madman) 16:47 my only real problem I had with the e word, was that a spoiled player could start using it from turn 1 16:48 <@Tone> I didn't think it was worth too many points because I can't play without it, I thought it was worth too many points because it's one of the easier conducts 16:48 <@Tone> Compare to something like wishless which was worth less points last year 16:48 evilhack resolves that issue quite nicely 16:49 i never even knew about elbereth until 3.6 came out and all hell broke loose. so i'm kind of out of the loop 16:50 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker (0:127)", on T:24407 16:50 hah 16:50 ;) 16:50 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 16:51 i think it's an achievment to not use it. i didn't comment on the thread after the tournament. but if it's worth so many points and is SO easy, then just don't use elebereth and get the points? 16:53 yah e-less is kind of a gimme, I'll go most games without ever even using it and not realizing 16:53 then sometimes I'll find myself face up with a mumak and no other choice 16:53 again, i haven't even looked at the scoring.. doubt i'll play much tnnt because i don't like the attitudes these tournaments seem to give people. but if it's so easy, just do it and get the points? 16:54 that's the idea 16:54 rebatela: I think it is possible that people can want the points to represent the difficulty well whether or not they use the E word. 16:54 i dont remember there being any bad attitudes or squabbling last year? 16:54 i get that 16:54 no 16:55 last year was great 16:55 this is all my own craziness... i don't like how people try to exploit the score system and get competitive etc... nethack for me has always been fun because it's playing by myself etc. 16:56 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) wished for "blessed ring of free action", on T:24408 16:56 it's me not y'all lol 16:56 <@IceBox> the fact that it's a tournament with a score system means it's inherently competitive to some extent, so i think the main thing is what pinkbeast said is that it would be nice if the points corresponded more closely with difficulty, that's all 16:56 i just played nethack the way i normally do last year and i feel like people got mad because i got points for just doing what i do every day (ascend eleberthlessly) 16:57 <@Tone> I will absolutely take the points, I don't have a problem playing Elberethless if the incentive is there :) 16:57 RIP 16:57 did you die, umbry? that sucks 16:57 <@Tone> No one should be mad about how anyone else is playing, and I hope you didn't think I was complaining about other players exploiting the scoring system 16:57 Goyles and crottas piss me off honestly 16:58 There are going to be differences of opinion on how the conduct multipliers are organized 16:58 I AM COMPLAON 16:58 was referring to Beholder reports 16:58 we're quite aware that they're probably not right 16:58 People who don't play exactly how I play deserve -50000 points 16:58 tone: i love you, man.. I watch your videos. 16:58 End of story 16:58 e wordless is a 1.1x multiplier 16:58 I actually made it to the bloody quest this time, xorn almost ate me alive 16:58 with layers of protection on 16:58 but we get to use the tournament data to get everyone's opinion of how they're not right 16:58 and this being quest the fuckers are everywhere 16:59 so pinned for later 16:59 we are all goood... i just read some comments and thought people were saying that I was like purposely playing the same role and not carving E to get points 16:59 ok so given this - https://www.hardfought.org/tnnt/rules.html - what would you all suggest rather than 'balah its not right' 17:00 its easy to complain about something you dont like, but at least try to throw a solution along with the complaint :) 17:00 <@IceBox> weird i'll personally take out the ghosts of the players who were talkin crap to you rebatela 17:00 <@IceBox> you just keep doin you 17:01 <@Tone> rebatela: it's all good, I don't feel like we're arguing or anything, and think everyone should play the way they find to be fun 17:01 <@IceBox> it's hard for me to comment on the scoring because i really only make use of a small portion of the conducts 17:01 tone: :) 17:02 <@IceBox> from my experience so far i definitely think E-less is on a different level than geno-less and wishless 17:02 i'm sorry, man.. i'm pissed at myself for dying in a game i should have ascendned 17:02 K2: you're tournament is hamster-brained and smells of elderberries 17:02 <@IceBox> but i haven't really tried a game without those before cuz they just scare me 17:02 it is nothing against you... i am in awe of you guys 17:02 that scoring system looks great 17:02 jonathanhanes i now must taunt you a 2nd time 17:03 sup johnny 17:03 tourist run seems to be coming along p. good 17:04 <@Tone> It will probably take a few iterations to get the scoring right. And even then nothing will be perfect because there are a lot of different playstyles 17:04 -!- klintos_ has joined #hardfought 17:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Ran Inc Fem Neu), 1738 points, T:1296, killed by a dwarf 17:04 yeah 17:04 "Anti Gulp: Assigned your quest with foodless conduct intact" grone 17:04 so take e-word 17:04 hey umbire 17:04 almost done with it actually 17:04 some people think its easy to ascend without, others not so much 17:04 don't know when I'll have time to finish 17:04 so its difficulty is relative 17:04 I want to green slime the wizard but that's tricky 17:04 <{Demo}2> hey k2 ur an elbereth 17:05 {Demo}2 you're from virginia 17:05 Pinkbeast: :) 17:05 i win 17:05 <{Demo}2> :( no imbreding i swear thats west virginia 17:05 rude 17:05 <@Tone> I do think the current multiplier system will lead to some point bloat since the growth is exponential not linear. But the games will probably have to be impressive to begin with to reach that point anyways 17:05 hello hackers 17:05 sup 17:05 <{Demo}2> hi hacker get any good shells today? 17:05 no school tomorrow because it's nevada day ;D 17:06 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker (0:127)", on T:24412 17:06 <@IceBox> i agree the difficulty of E-less is somewhat subjective, but is it subjective in the same way that genoless and wishless would be? 17:06 you... can ... specify... charges? 17:06 @Tone We did some calculations on 2018 data and found that even for high-conduct games, the multiplier system didn't give an outsized amount of points. Granted, this doesn't account for the new conducts. 17:06 you can try 17:06 Cevn: no 17:06 cevn: you can 17:06 this one showed up with 90 17:06 doesn't mean you will get them 17:06 ohh 17:06 nice 17:06 i didnt even know it could go over 100 17:06 you get less than what you asked for 17:06 it'll give you the lower of whatever you wished for and whatever it would have given you 17:06 max is 127 17:06 <@Tone> Cevn: it's not worth specifying charges 17:06 @IceBox me personally, i think e-wordless should be 1.2x or even 1.3x 17:07 ok phew... scared me 17:07 <@IceBox> whoaoooaaaa, little dawggie 17:07 but the tnnt devteam as whole currently settled on 1.1x 17:07 Me personally I think E-less might need to go lower than 1.1 17:07 but am content at 1.1 17:07 see 17:07 <@IceBox> well that's cuz you're just goin off the deepend over there in your server rooms 😉 17:07 yeah i'm not losing any sleep over 1.1x 17:07 K2: but no kill on the high priest is only 1.05 which I feel requires more planning and strategy then e-less 17:07 howdy aosdict :) 17:07 i'm interested in participating in tnnt 17:07 <@Tone> aosdict: Well the 2018 data reflected a different scoring system with different conduct incentives. 17:07 i forgot the high priest had a marker !!! 17:07 jonathanhanes_: Yeah, but it doesn't affect your entire game. 17:08 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) wished for "blessed +3 greased dragonhide Cornuthaum", on T:24435 17:08 i'm not doing well kids 17:08 <@IceBox> the high priest has a marker rebatela? is that always? 17:08 <@IceBox> or just a decent chance 17:08 in EH 17:08 winny: Your invitation back into clan TNNT is waiting. 17:08 * rebatela cries 17:08 no crying in nethack 17:08 but but the sea dragon 17:08 that's not until 3.7 17:08 thanks aosdict :) 17:08 you have to wait for the update 17:08 i'm gunna try to die a lot 17:08 @IceBox in evilhack there are only 2 places you can find a magic marker - sokoban (50/50 chance) and the high priests inventory in the sanctum (100%) 17:08 otherwise you have to wish for one 17:09 Hi winny 17:09 howdy Umbire 17:09 hiay winny 17:09 hiya even 17:09 hayo K2 17:09 rebetala: could you have used a teleport wand on either yourself or the sea dragon to escape? 17:09 yes 17:09 i could have done a million things 17:09 :( 17:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Bin Bat Mal Non), 183 points, T:448, killed by a water moccasin 17:09 ok time to get the kiddo 17:09 now we just need to get nooodle and PeterQ back online 17:09 fountain quaffer fountain quaffer 17:10 looking forward to conduct scoring suggestions ;) 17:10 i didn't realize what was happening 17:10 be back soon 17:10 k2's sick of hearing me whine 17:10 e-less x 0.05 points 17:10 <@IceBox> lol 17:10 punish people for not using it 17:10 haha 17:12 <@Tone> Whatever the scoring system becomes each year, I'm probably going to look for the points where my skillset matches up with the points rewarded, which will change depending on the scoring system 17:13 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 17:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 17:13 that's fair 17:15 gaming the system is part of the game 17:16 <{Demo}2> yeah it is the game 17:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Sam Hlf Mal Law) was given the Kiku-ichimonji, on T:1495 17:19 the constant battle between dev and end user 17:19 -!- moon_child has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.4 - https://znc.in] 17:20 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:21 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22 ais523 was here! 17:22 for a whopping 8 minutes 17:22 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 17:22 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 17:22 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 17:22 ais523 is back! 17:22 how long will he survive this time 17:23 before the mighty connectivity gods take him out 17:23 bhaak: as long as it doesn't lead to blatantly tedius gameplay (logpoints), then sure 17:24 You begin praying to the Connectivity God... Unfortunately, your connection is too poor to reach them. You die. 17:25 *Gods 17:26 hmm 17:26 -!- moon_child has joined #hardfought 17:26 I need to be consistent with how I do BUC 17:26 colors 17:26 across variants 17:26 in some I use uncursed=cyan blessed=green 17:26 in some I do the reverse 17:26 the reason is NH4 and ADOM 17:26 my initial configuration was set to uncursed=green blessed=cyan 17:27 because NH4 did blessed=cyan and didn't have a color for uncursed 17:27 I simply just added one to make it better 17:27 and green seemed fair enough 17:27 then I played ADOM 17:27 it uses the same colors 17:27 but swaps blessed and uncursed 17:27 brilliant 17:27 so I changed some configurations 17:27 but not all 17:27 so now I have like 17:27 half games doing cyan/green/red 17:27 the other half does green/cyan/red 17:28 and now I have a rock troll 17:29 thanks doppleganger 17:29 I actually have an option in nethack4 for BUC coloring 17:29 "they have a cave troll" 17:29 because it's by far the most common thing people used menucolors for 17:29 so I basically added all the typical popular setups 17:30 it has nh4-style, 4k-style (where blessed is green, not cyan, uncursed remains uncolored), adom-style, nh4+green uncursed, green/yellow/red and no coloring 17:31 green/yellow/red is what stth among others used in their rc file and was the only other rather common color scheme 17:31 that wasn't covered by the others I listed 17:32 Anyone know what the max range is that you can get with a thrown object? 17:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Sam Hlf Mal Law) was given Demonbane, on T:2667 17:32 the max is kinda weird 17:32 ice, 25str, grease (???) affects it positively 17:32 I seem to be able to go much farther with expert sling and a gem than expert bow and an arrow 17:33 because gems are 1s 17:33 err 17:34 they weight 1 17:34 that is 17:34 actually arrows are also 1s, aren't they... 17:35 hmmm 17:36 there are a lot of similarities between ADOM and nethack weapon weights 17:36 probably both from D&D 17:36 independently 17:36 You would think arrows would be more aerodynamic, but I'm more interested in just getting the max range right now. 17:36 I bet armor is the same 17:36 except in adom the weights are actually somewhat balanced 17:37 unlike in NetHack 17:37 an ADOM person can carry 100*str 17:37 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37 10 str is not a good stat 17:37 in fact it's awful 17:38 so both games take weapon and armor weight from D&D 17:38 but an ADOM person usually has a far larger carry cap 17:38 hmmmmmmmmmmm 17:39 yeah no wonder nobody uses armor in NetHack 17:39 aside from a very select few types 17:39 *nobody uses 90% of the body armors in NetHack 17:40 actually 17:40 Most of them are just gateways to the ones people "actually" use 17:40 while I might be remembering wrong here 17:40 studded leather, mithril coats, then the ol' DSM 17:40 I think in pre-speed system rework, burdened in NetHack wasn't nearly as bad as it is now 17:40 stressed+ was still bad 17:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bin Gno Mal Non), 2228 points, T:1344, killed by a soldier ant 17:46 -!- ichbinmiah has joined #hardfought 17:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bin Dro Mal Non), 4 points, T:75, killed by a newt 17:52 qw 17:53 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:55 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 17:59 -!- Cevn has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01 -!- Hekik has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02 -!- kimeemaru has joined #hardfought 18:03 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought 18:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a succubus, on T:40370 18:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] IceBox (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:40372 18:06 -!- Cevn has joined #hardfought 18:06 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:07 !ping 18:07 Umbire: Pong! 18:07 Seducing nemesis for the bell is my new favorite thing to watch 18:09 alright, wish question now 18:09 XL11 Monk, amulet of ESP on right now, have Mjolnir and Vorpal Blade from sacrificing 18:09 don't plan to use them unless weaponless gets turbobotched 18:10 pet archon 18:10 :) 18:10 have some decently enchanted non body armor, including my original stuff, a rusted +3 orcish helm and some high boots 18:10 was thinking speed boots of GoP 18:11 -!- jonadab has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:11 actually thinking about doubling back for mines, kinda just slipped my mind 18:11 I always wish for armor and then find the armor I just wished for shortly after 18:11 <@Tone> Do you have MR and reflection yet? 18:11 naturally I have neither 18:11 <@Tone> I'd wish for SDSM personally 18:12 <@Tone> but some people don't like body armor on monks 18:12 <@Tone> I don't really mind it 18:12 yeah, I'm seeing how much I can commit to that 18:12 <@Tone> If your luck is max then you should be fine though 18:12 what's ac? could probably rev geno some silver dragons if you can survive it 18:12 this is the best I've done with one though 18:12 -!- jonadab has joined #hardfought 18:12 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v jonadab] by ChanServ 18:12 <@Tone> max luck, grandmaster martial arts, XL 11 is a good to-hit bonus 18:12 my luck is most def. not max, haven't done the last floor of mines 18:12 <@Tone> ah, you may not be able to take advantage of that 18:12 yeah 18:13 <@Tone> CoMR or Shield of Reflection? 18:13 also my spellbook situation is ass 18:13 plenty of books, not a lot of ID'd potions I could dilute to water for blessing 18:13 or even a pair of lenses 18:14 if I could expand my spells this would probably be far easier to deal with 18:14 oh yeah, neutral and female 18:14 hm hm hmmmmm 18:15 blessed +3 fireproof CoMR, blessed fireproof +3 speed boots, could also go EotA or PYEC 18:15 spellbook of poly 18:15 then just poly everything in sight 18:16 I genuinely don't think I'd be able to do much with that at this stage 18:19 could wish for pyec for MR 18:20 but you said you already had some artis 18:20 so that might not be prudent 18:23 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 18:23 Yeah 18:23 on the other hand 18:23 P Y E C 18:24 don't waste your wishes just so you can get uncursed charging lol 18:24 not even that, I'd just like a source of MR 18:24 both it and EotA give that though 18:24 and a couple of other things 18:25 I'd just get comr 18:25 so I'm currently weighing the ESP/energy regen vs. unlimited basic charging 18:25 if you've generated artifacts already 18:25 might just do that honestly 18:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4912 18:26 I already have a normal amulet of ESP + I'd swear there's an unenchanted helm of telepathy in my bag rn 18:26 the wizard can also steal other roles' quest artifacts 18:26 ^ 18:28 luxidream: those horn of plenty's are not going to refill themselves :P 18:28 Well aware lol 18:29 eh, fuck it, I'll have MR from quest artifact 18:29 ~~assuming I even make it that fucking far~~ 18:29 you have a magic lamp? 18:29 I'm guessing 18:29 that's what this wish is from, yeah 18:30 I'd go with what luxi said and just go for a comr 18:30 blessed +3 fireproof? 18:30 always go +3 18:30 greased 18:30 unless you're a wimp 18:30 so blessed +3 greased then 18:31 fixed and greased 18:31 blessed fixed greased +3 cloak of magic resistance name Finger this Rodney 18:31 named* 18:31 lol 18:31 that's important you get it right 18:31 I'm a wimp 18:31 there's enough variance in nethack already :P 18:31 in for a penny then 18:31 I'm someone who is constantly getting +0 enchantments :P 18:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 13124 points, T:5006, killed by a lizard 18:32 then why should I trust you! 18:32 you just want to spread the misery! 18:32 :B 18:32 I never said you should 18:32 true 18:32 !8ball will umbire get his +3 enchantment? 18:32 jonathanhanes: Outlook good 18:32 see beholderbot thinks so 18:32 guess I'll trust the bot then 18:32 lol 18:32 it's +EV 18:33 so you should do it 18:33 I just don't 18:33 I do it because in the long run even if you don't get it the couple of ac points don't really matter 18:33 oh man, my casting for protection + healing go straight to shit 18:33 and if you do get it then it's an added bonus 18:33 you didn't need those spells anyway 18:34 and of course I didn't get the enchantment 18:34 this run dies, it's on your head 18:34 :B 18:34 XD 18:34 (I can write enchant armor, just with infinitely more tedium 18:35 fuck fuck fuck! 18:35 I forgot to unwield the lamp 18:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] RedArrow (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 3 points, T:50, killed by a fox 18:35 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Sam Hlf Mal Law) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:9539 18:35 whatever, still going the distance 18:35 *rubs blessed lamp* *gets hostile djinni* 18:37 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41 luxidream: +EV? 18:41 !who 18:41 FIQ: [hdf-us] ichbinmiah [nh363] fcloud [nh363] Cevn [tnnt] hothraxxa [tnnt] luxor [slshm] dragonspeaker [dnh] | [hdf-eu] marie [nh363] HarmathZsolt [tnnt] | [hdf-au] No current players 18:41 I see 18:41 <{Demo}2> effort value? :P 18:41 higher expected value 18:41 ah 18:42 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 18:43 <@Tone> yeah +3 is better if you are making several enchantment wishes 18:43 <@Tone> +2 is better if you need AC imo 18:45 what is an infernal in splice 18:45 are they any good? 18:45 I like to play gnome usually 18:45 better humans and I like neutral anyway 18:45 they have regeneration at lv 4 18:45 and fire resistance 18:45 but are weak to silver 18:45 pretty op 18:45 any drawbacks? 18:45 ah 18:45 ok 18:46 hmm but they can't be neutral? 18:46 :( 18:46 I like neutral 18:46 then I can quest artiwish for good stuff 18:47 what do you usually artiwish for 18:47 oof? 18:47 !tell AntiGulp please consider importing the last 3.6.x fixes so I can use DECgraphics 18:47 AntiGulp shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, FIQ. 18:47 PYEC and/or eota 18:47 as a wizard> 18:47 ? 18:47 well I don't wish for eota as a wizard 18:47 but I wish for pyec yes 18:47 sometimes oof 18:47 but it's kinda heavy 18:48 mkot is pretty good 18:48 if I play paci, I wish for oof+pyec 18:48 and eota if I can get away with it 18:48 so I have infinite trap detection 18:48 [hdf-us] [nh13d] oatmeal (Nin Mal), 80 points, T:286, pissed off deity 18:48 to avoid level teleporters and such 18:49 for lawfuls in spl there is "pridwen", large shield of half physical damage 18:49 that is a great name for an artifact 18:50 "Timmy" 18:50 nice god name 18:53 !tell AntiGulp if cartomancers get monster-specific create monster, it should be called "(monster) spell card" or similar, not just create monster 18:53 AntiGulp shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, FIQ. 18:55 thank you for the answers for the wish, btw 18:55 slipped my mind 18:56 !tell AntiGulp please display skill caps, even slex does this 18:56 Will do, FIQ! 18:56 I don't think anyone's made a 3.6 implementation yey. 18:56 yet. 18:56 <{Demo}2> pride always loses 18:56 <{Demo}2> never pridwen 18:57 it is not a hard feature 18:57 to make 18:57 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57 in fact I believe even fh's diff would apply, don't think that code changed much 18:58 and that'd give skill progress too 18:58 wait 18:58 aosdict 18:58 are you saying that you don't have this? 18:58 I'm surprised tbh 18:58 no one asked for it and I didn't think it up myself 18:59 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 18:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 18:59 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 18:59 fh 07afe1a9ee5cc864a62a06760497c3207e3e9210, probably the only case of me stealing slex stuff 19:02 one of the commits in vanilla was at AmyBSOD's request 19:02 ais523: Messages from FIQ have been forwarded to you privately. 19:03 (a better message for impossible()) 19:03 which one_ 19:03 + 19:03 ...a 19:03 oh ffs 19:03 anyway, ok 19:03 FIQ: re unfairness, "things that are here" isn't visible at range 19:03 whereas map backgrounds are only useful at range 19:04 assuming I'm correct in context -- sidebar's things that are here only lists your current spot 19:04 curses ACS_ is bizarre; it's intended to map onto DECgraphics in a terminal-independent way, which in practice means it's much the same as DECgraphics but has a different set of configuration issues 19:04 yes, sidebar things that are here is your current location 19:04 I assumed curses ACS_* to be 100% compatible 19:05 it has a weird NitroHack-inherited interaction with blindness 19:05 curses ACS_ fails in some situations involving screen, I think 19:05 in any case, I did at least not introduce any regressions in that regard in my recent curses symset changes 19:05 the basic idea is that there's more than one way to do DECgraphics, so ACS_ looks at the terminal definition to see which is right for the terminal 19:05 because old curses also used ACS_* stuff as implicit default 19:05 for drawing fancy walls 19:06 and ACS_CKBOARD for corridors 19:06 and PLMINUS for trees 19:06 I guess the best way to put it is "ACS_ is intended to be portable but it's implemented the same way every other code in curses is, which means you need a correct terminal definition to be sure it'll work" 19:06 smoky potions in my game are gain level 19:06 not sure how to feel about that lul 19:06 all I did was add ACS_BULLET, or whatever the one that has a center dot is, for regular floor to it 19:06 I think it's probably correct to use ACS_* if you're using curses 19:07 because it puts all your failure modes in one basket, which is probably what you want 19:07 I considered changing iron bars to =/= but figured it would be goind too far in my intended-to-be-maximally-conservative vanilla patches 19:08 -!- deadnoob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08 ≠? 19:08 yeah 19:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Sam Hlf Mal Law), 70838 points, T:16055, killed by a priest of Moloch 19:08 ais523: I asked DT recently if there was a good reason menus was forced to be half-width in curses, the response I got was.. rather vague 19:08 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 19:08 "it probably was because of performance reasons, I don't mind this" 19:09 well, I do mind and find it really annoying, idk if I'm alone in this though 19:09 but it neccesited a hack to make the symset menu fancy enough for PatR's benefit 19:09 but... why not just remove the mostly arbitrary restriction 19:09 that's a sort of performance optimisation that's sometimes noticable on modern computers, especially over ssh; however, a bit of slowness on opening and closing menus is probably acceptable for giving a better menu experience 19:10 the restriction's fine at some terminal sizes but a huge pain at others 19:10 I mean 19:10 wintty does it 19:10 btw, re: your discussion about scrolling the inventory sidebar, it's something I've put a lot of thought into but haven't found a good solution for 19:10 no reason curses has to limit itself 19:10 I don't think there's an intuitive set of characters to use that are independent of everything else 19:10 and have annoying wrapping in several menus as a result 19:10 there is not 19:10 I like PatR's most recent suggestion for that, except use C-i instead 19:11 basically a command that switches focus to sidebar, and allow it to be used as a menu 19:11 for scroll etc 19:11 working on my own variant now... enough playing around 19:11 C-i works especially well since tab's typical "switch focus" behaviour in most programs translates well 19:11 just as C-i does ([i]nventory) 19:12 to the point where I was considering implementing it on fh as well in case I, or someone on DT decide to go ahead and implement it 19:12 what does ^I do in vanilla? 19:13 wiz-id 19:13 ah, right 19:13 it can probably be safely overridden 19:13 yes, that can be an extended command easily enough 19:14 ais523: what are your opinions on the proposed SYMBOLS fix I did 19:14 it will be basically be evilhack mixed with some xnh features and a little slashem/splice. but if you try to engrave elebereth or put on an a helm of opp alignment? instadeath 19:14 there wasn't any reply to it so I was unsure whether or not it was of any interest 19:14 contrary to the other mail that did get a reply (so it doesn't just seem to be a matter of inactivity) 19:15 FIQ: I don't know that code very well so I didn't look at it 19:15 oh and the castle wand won't be able to be stolen and used by soldiers 19:15 if it seems like a plausible approach, I'd be happy to create a patch for it 19:15 should be simple enough to do 19:15 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16 basically, I suggested that SYMBOLS instead of writing to the symset arrays directly, is saved seperately and loaded appropriately after config loading 19:16 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a winter wolf, on T:15663 19:16 this fixes 2 problems 19:16 although I know quite a bit about curses the library, I know hardly anything about NetHack's curses interface (NitroHack's, which NH4's is based on, is likely to be quite different internally) 19:16 1: SYMBOLS needs to be defined after symset atm, or the symset option will override the symbols 19:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 35333 points, T:15694, killed by a carnivorous ape, while frozen by a potion 19:17 2: atm, windowports that explicitly set symset due to defaults or similar, will override SYMBOLS entirely 19:17 and has no reasonable way to work around this 19:17 I don't know much about vanilla's options code either 19:17 besides forcing the user to explicitly set a symset 19:18 it is probably less terrifying than NitroHack's, but it's still bizarre in a number of ways 19:18 well 19:18 my suggestion wouldn't actually touch the options code much 19:18 merely the way it handles SYMBOLS lines 19:19 basically, what I was going to do was 19:19 it is probably a good change simply because you're suggesting it, but reviewing changes to vanilla isn't something I really have the time/mental energy for atm 19:19 1: create a 3rd symbols array index (USERSET), in addition to PRIMARY and ROGUESET 19:19 2: instead of SYMBOLS entries writing to PRIMARY, write to USERSET instead 19:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] ichbinmiah (Val Hum Fem Neu), 48994 points, T:19827, killed by a priest of Tyr 19:20 3: create a function, load_user_symbols() that overrides PRIMARY with things defined in USERSET 19:20 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Orcus, on T:46861 19:20 rebatela: what do you have against helms of opposite alignment 19:20 that can be easily run when necessary 19:20 ahhh you took the bait 19:20 i think it's cheap... save a wish and you can "ascend" at the wrong altar 19:21 then I can run the function after the game has loaded the options (to fix problem #1 above) and make sure that whenever windowports does a custom symset load, run it directly after to ensure that user symbols are respected 19:21 you're escaping in celestial disgrace 19:21 (fixes #2) 19:21 but you managed to save a wish 19:21 if it's allowed by the game 19:21 it's not cheating 19:21 that's why i'm changing it 19:21 plus I personally only ever see it on speed ascends 19:22 if you're at the point of ascending it's tedium at worst to find the right altar 19:22 rebatela: one thing in my dungeon overhaul thing 19:22 so it's down to how fast you wanna finish at that point 19:22 at least imo 19:22 that I made some years ago 19:22 you really don't get that you played the whole game for a certain god and then you switch sides on the very last turn becuause you saved a wish ? 19:22 weak 19:22 was to make putting on HoOA on astral not be quite as easy 19:22 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 19:22 who says I don't get it? :V 19:23 it would still be possible to do by having extrinsic disintegration resistance 19:23 but not otherwise 19:23 otherwise, your god immediately disintegrates it 19:23 and gets angry 19:23 it's not cheating.. but it's escaping in celestial disgrace with a wish 19:23 K2 I just had my first fight today with a real player monster, and I have to say they're totally awesome 19:24 it's not an ascension 19:24 FIQ, how about putting on the [HoOA in the Sanctum, and optionally taking it off at the high altar? 19:24 you didn't go to the right altar 19:24 this guy tried all kinds of smart movies on me 19:24 jilles: yep, that would work 19:24 I'm not sure if I comment on it on the overhaul 19:24 and it's always the best players who do it too 19:24 but it was deliberate 19:24 to allow for this 19:24 like throwing potions of paralysis while fleeing 19:24 some people aren't as fussed about steadfast loyalty to their god and just want to solidify the win, that's a personal playstyle thing imo 19:24 not like they couldn't do it "right" if they really wanted to 19:24 FIQ, the main reason to do it is to reduce mysterious force on lawfuls 19:25 it gives you partial altar freedom in exchange for the helmet slot 19:25 I remember you said about artiwishing, that "if the game allows it its totally legitimate" and "players should be able to play the way they want"? 19:25 anyone can save a wish... 19:25 get to the right altar 19:25 why is it different when it comes to something you don't like 19:25 and again I usually see it on speed ascensions anyway 19:25 well, that's a terrible analogy... obviously the game allows it. go ahead and do it 19:26 just not sure why you would... you can't get to the right altar? we all know you can 19:26 luxidream: my view on all such things is that it's worth taking both gameplay and flavour considerations into account: also if something is problematic, that may be an argument for changing the game to make it impossible even though you're fine with people using it while it's possible 19:26 ais523: I was considering (but ultimately decided against -- too complex, and also somewhat difficult to understand) having a speed+energy system in NetHack so I could make movement speed its own thing 19:26 >some people aren't as fussed about steadfast loyalty to their god and just want to solidify the win, that's a personal playstyle thing imo 19:26 rebatela: fwiw, I tend to play very close to the edge nowadays, I've had characters who are unable to reach all three altars 19:26 >not like they couldn't do it "right" if they really wanted to 19:27 i played the whole game lawful. now i'll be chatoic so i don't have to fight my way to the right altar!!! 19:27 weak 19:27 one concern I ended up having (that wouldn't stop me from implementing it, buut still) was -- how on earth would I optimize such a thing on the NH4 save system? 19:27 but I tend not to use a HoOA even in that situation 19:27 without completely losing the previous size optimization 19:27 (partly because I'm probably not actually trying 100% for a win in such games) 19:27 you don't have to play my variant, luxi. don't worry 19:27 speedruns tend to use hooa to avoid the force 19:27 ^ 19:28 a speed+energy system is a system used in some roguelikes (Caves of Qud and ADOM has it, probably others as well) 19:28 its just an added bonus you to skip parts of asttral really 19:28 and a lot of speedrunners have done plenty of "normal" ascensions 19:28 fwiw, I strongly dislike opaque speed mechanics in roguelikes 19:28 but it basically have 2 things to determine speed of things -- inate speed (that affects everything) and how much energy an action costs 19:28 yeah... i know about that too.. i'm talking about saving a wish so you can ascend on the first (wrong) altar. 19:28 ais523: I don't *mind* it but I wouldn't implement it in fh 19:28 even something like DCSS's "movement cost ≠ other action cost" is really confusing and makes it harder to plan out tactics 19:28 i can't be the first person who thinks that's lame 19:28 rebatela, and if you found or polypiled for the helm? 19:29 the first altar is also not necessarily wrong 19:29 because it's not straightforward at all 19:29 it took me quite some time to make sense of it at first 19:29 -!- luxidream has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29 eventually things cleared up, but yeah 19:29 the whole thing seems wrong (to me). I realize you all disagree.. It's not an ascension in my book 19:29 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 19:29 you escape 19:29 d 19:29 but I was wondering, how would you even optimize such a thing in the save system? 19:30 anyone can save a wish 19:30 you finally get to the hard part of the game and wish your way to an "ascension"? no 19:30 I don't realise we all disagree but I think it's possible to say "I think HoOA on Astral should be a celestial disgrace" slightly more tersely than you seem to be. 19:31 FIQ: if you do it for only the player, there's probably no real optimisation needed; but if you're doing it for monsters too it's going to be a pain 19:31 nothing wrong with celestial disgrace.. you still made it to an altar with a wish, guys 19:31 perhaps you fully reset energy at the start of each turn, and record snapshots only at turn boundaries 19:31 just know that some people view it that way 19:31 if HoOA didn't work on astral I would just have to do about twice as many speedruns to reduce the variance from the mysterious force and finding the correct altar 19:31 that seems viable with a speed+energy system 19:32 right 19:32 luxidream: Variance could be reduced by the idea (which I suspect K2 thinks is too evil) of ensuring the right altar is always the last one you see. :-) 19:33 ais523: that sounds like it would lead to severe rounding errors 19:33 that works too :) 19:33 lmao 19:33 you should do that because you're just escaping when you use the helm 19:33 FIQ: yes, but that might make the system easier to understand 19:34 it's a long way to go.. i understand not wanting to risk going to the proper altar 19:34 especially if you used small numbers 19:34 you could show the number of action points next to the turn count 19:34 what would even constitute a turn boundary 19:34 if you have a wish? escaape. but it's not an ascension 19:34 "moving costs you 3 action points, attacking costs you 2, you have 8" 19:34 turn boundary is when everyone's out of AP, then you set up for the next turn 19:34 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 19:34 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 19:34 turns would be somewhat longer in this model 19:34 fair 19:35 you can make a perfectly good roguelike like this, I think, but it'd be quite different from how NetHack works at the moment 19:35 oooo how cleverr! he's going to use a helm of opposite alignment and "ascend" on the wrong altar11 19:35 I think ADOM and CoQ uses basically the same system but with different numbers 19:35 so you definitely could 19:35 heh, you could even do a D&D-style "moving diagonally costs 3, moving orthogonally costs 2" to get around the diagonal speed boost 19:36 Heh 19:36 but that makes diagonals *slower* 19:36 still faster than two orthogonals 19:36 which is rather unintuitive 19:36 oh fair 19:36 in theory they should cost sqrt(2) as much, 1.5 is close to that 19:36 oh wait I'm stupid 19:36 Diagonals are only _just_ slower than one might expect. 19:36 it's ridiculously easy to save a wish vs. doing the grand tour 19:36 for some reason I was thinking 2 orthogonals was 1.4 and you suggested diagonals be 1.5 19:36 so slower than 2 orthogonals 19:36 that's... not right 19:37 well 1.41... etc 19:37 and everyone knows it and people laugh when you pull out (or wish for) the hooa 19:37 but yeah, it'd be almost correct 19:37 wow, there's such a huge skill gap between players who use opposite alignment and players who don't 19:37 so fair enough 19:38 astral is significantly harder if you have to go through more than 1 altar 19:38 IMO the difficulty difference is too high 19:38 yeah, the best players seem to just pull out the ol'l hoaa and ascend at the first altar they reach.. it's kind of crazy atctually 19:38 or wish for it 19:38 i've made astral hard enough in evilhack, i dont think i have to go messing around with which altar you get to in such and such an order ;) 19:38 but otherwise I have no problems with it 19:39 In vanilla it doesn't help that Famine's such a bad joke 19:39 just seems like a long game to play to ascend at the wrong altar 19:39 yep, you got me 19:39 HoOA is the only reason I can ascend 19:39 on more than 1 character, I've had characters that managed astral mostly because it was the first altar 19:39 and would have a far harder time getting a 2nd or 3rd 19:39 i must have forgotten saying that. (i didn't) 19:39 * K2 nerfs HoOA on astral 19:39 i think it's weak though 19:40 it's the 1st vs 2nd difficulty spike I think is too high 19:40 2 vs 3 isn't much different 19:40 but I don't mind HoOA making stuff easier 19:40 what do you save? 50 turns? 19:40 I just think the 1st altar choice should be harder than it is 19:40 famine is probably to blame for this 19:40 no. you are avoiding the risk of actually going to the right altar 19:40 all this talk actually gives me an idea 19:40 * Umbire checks watch 19:41 ... whoooo 19:41 K2: I had an idea before 19:41 hahah 19:41 did you see it 19:41 yup 19:41 i cried 19:41 not the marker one 19:41 lol 19:41 :) 19:41 I suggested HoOA only working with extrinsic disint res on astral 19:41 otherwise, putting it on will make your god disintegrate it 19:41 and be angry 19:42 ooh 19:42 an angry god on astral, ooooooo i'm scared now 19:42 that is quite the evil idea 19:42 hothraxxa: well 19:42 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 250 points, T:920, killed by a giant mimic 19:42 it makes sense flavour-wise 19:42 the main idea was the helm-disint part 19:42 if it mattered it would make sense 19:43 [backscroll] AntiVirus wooo! glad you like the player monsters :) 19:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha) killed the Oracle, on T:20836 19:43 but angry gods accept the amulet, i've done it 19:43 I mean 19:43 would you say no to this supposed artifact of great power 19:43 yeah I just fought the first one that didn't immediately go down to finger of death 19:43 just because you were angry at him/her 19:44 it was Dave an Archaeologist who came attached to the Grayswandir I wished for 19:44 i have never used the hooa to ascend. ever. 19:44 I have in my first asc 19:44 <3 19:44 not since 19:44 think of how the other god must feel after you turn into a worshipper-come-lately 19:44 hothraxxa: thank you 19:44 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 60 points, T:236, killed by a goblin 19:44 he had reflection, tried to use some fire and death wands on me, and when he knew he was beaten he fled and used escape tactics, pretty cool. 19:44 after converting their altars and probably gutting at least one of their priests 19:44 it's a self-imposed restriction. same as elbereth 19:44 not trying to shame anyone.. I was talking about what i would change in my variant 19:45 :V 19:45 isn't elbereth tracked as a conduct in vanilla now? 19:45 instadeath if you elbereth or hoaa 19:45 "you know everyone laughs when you put on the hooa" 19:45 i will never use elbereth even if it would have saved me from dying 19:45 @AntiVirus: sounds legit awesome! 19:45 lol 19:45 yeah! i love the artifact owner bit 19:45 you want this artifact? ok great. gotta earn it 19:45 not everyone obviously... and you are getting awfully defensive.. maybe it's just me. but yeah dude, you're at the wrong altar 19:45 everyone knows it 19:45 yeah that's a cool idea. very oldschool D&D there 19:46 i wish it were my idea 19:46 i have no probem with people using it, esp speed runners 19:46 D&D games did that? neat 19:46 sortof 19:46 i pulled it from a fringe variant thats was an offshoot of splicehack 19:46 never played D&D 19:46 kinda makes sense to get defensive when you make derisive statements suggesting people are laughingstocks for ascending differently from you 19:46 V: 19:46 it just reminds me of the kind of thing a proper oldschool hardass gamemaster would do to you 19:46 oooh FIQ never? :( 19:46 K2: there is a bilious patch on alt.org for it iirc 19:46 there is? 19:46 I know I've seen it elsewhere at least 19:46 didnt know that 19:47 like that's a p. loaded statement lol 19:47 how is it some skill to save a wish? Look !! I saved a wish! I'm so smart! I can escape without disgrace! 19:47 <@Tone> I was considering recently that it would be interesting for the Rider identities to be concealed from telepathy 19:47 you're at the wrong altar 19:47 now if you will excuse me, i have an amulet to deliver 19:47 @Tone un does this 19:47 I mean, maybe it's prudent to save a wish you don't need to use 19:47 how many times are you gonna circle back to that lmao 19:47 in the form of a magic lamp ;) 19:47 #hooa4lyfe :D 19:47 LarienTelrunya: Message from AntiGulp at 2019-10-24 09:20 EDT: I’m so confused what does this mean help 19:48 maybe the first person who did it was clever 19:48 <@Tone> FIQ: Nice, yeah it didn't sound very original. But I like that change. 19:48 <@Tone> FIQ: Does un allow monster detection to reveal them? 19:48 but you should go to the right altar and offer the amulet 19:48 I'm not even suggesting it's an absolute marker of skill, only that it's probably not signaling a lack of one 19:48 er 19:48 I don't think so 19:48 pretty sure monster detection and telepathy works similarly here 19:49 ais523: please don't take away ^I for wizard id and make it into an extended command :( 19:49 aosdict: keymap customization is a thing now 19:49 luxidream: have you serioiusly never heard anyone make the argument i'm making? 19:49 I was only made aware of this recently 19:49 of course, no one laughs at you. you're the best player here 19:49 I can't believe I actually decided to trade my GDSM for ShimmeringDSM, but looking this over it makes sense to get a different extrinsic defense 19:49 all the more reason you should be able to ascend at the altar of the god you've been playing for the whole game 19:49 * K2 points at luxidream and laughs 19:50 it's fun to have more options 19:50 Like I said, I'm sure you have, when people tell you you're not supposed to have the quest artifact of other roles 19:50 * FIQ points at luxidream, then curses 19:50 that's quite the deflection 19:50 * Umbire points at AntiVirus, then coughs slightly 19:50 ? hehe 19:50 has nothing to do with what we're talking about but ok 19:50 rebatela: I dare you to ascend at the altar of your own god in slex :P 19:51 alright who canceled umbire? 19:51 it really amounts to the same thing though 19:51 <@rikersan> I dare you to ascend in slex rebatela :p 19:51 I'm not going to judge you for the way you play the game lol 19:51 * K2 points at FIQ with a laser pointer 19:51 artifact wishing= saving a wish to offer the amulet of yendor to a competing god? no 19:51 * FIQ applies a mirror 19:51 why arent these slides changing 19:51 appes/oranges 19:52 try again 19:52 argh. mysteriously forced from asmo's level back to baalzebub's 19:52 no, it's something that's allowed by the game that you decide for yourself is fair or not 19:52 <@rikersan> go the stupid dnh route - quest artifacts are hella good vs normal ones, so they're just flat out not wishable 19:52 you have some seriously fast celestial disgraces though... i'll give you that 19:52 <@rikersan> rebatela: it's almost like his specialty is realtime speed ascs :p 19:52 and maybe you choose not to use it, but that doesn't invalidate everyone else's ascensions 19:53 they're escapes to ME 19:53 might as well have wished for a succubus 19:54 wrong altar 19:54 <@Tone> I almost intentionally put on my HoOA and sought out the incorrect altar on my youtube LP, because I got the first altar and it was too easy. In hindsight I wish I had, but I ascended there out of habit 19:54 -!- Sluggo has joined #hardfought 19:54 easy peasy to save a wish 19:55 waddup dog 19:55 hi klintos 19:55 oh, hi 19:55 hi Slugg 19:55 Sluggo, even 19:56 I ascended once in 60k moves. haven't come close again. I have no idea how these wizards get it done in 30 or even 20k. 19:56 <@rikersan> RNG 19:56 hey. 19:56 Hello Sluggo, Welcome to #hardfought 19:56 <@rikersan> that's how 19:56 30k asc is a speedrun for me 19:56 Well, I would say the answer to that is magic mapping and digging in my case 19:56 <@Tone> It's not RNG if you can do it consistently :P 19:56 i usually go between 40-50k 19:56 <@rikersan> ssssh tone 19:56 klintos play on hardfought 19:56 <@Tone> It's mostly by not full-exploring the dungeon, usually 19:56 I finished in 36k due to mapping and digging the mazes 19:56 I think 20k makes a good definition for a fast game, that's before the spellbook memorisation leaks out 19:56 speed boots help 19:57 that said, I normally skip Sokoban nowadays, that speeds things up a bit 19:57 (this is probably an even better idea with the 3.6 Sokoban changes) 19:57 30k "speedrun"? my samurai ascensions usually are around the 30k mark 19:57 you can probably make an argument for skipping the Mines too, but I don't do that yet 19:57 why? what did they do? 19:57 seems I'm not even at level 14 by turn 20000 19:57 yeah because samurai starts with speed 19:57 :P 19:57 ais523: including minetown? 19:57 that's why they have lower turncounts 19:57 <@Tone> I used to always skip the mines past minetown if my quest arti was a luck item 19:57 you're going to have a lot less resources that way 19:58 FIQ: there's not much point in Minetown nowadays, given the candles in Vlad's 19:58 it's like playing centaur in DCSS and claiming a really low turncount lmao 19:58 samurai is the best role! also I use elbereth and the helm of make rebatela say your ascension is invalid :P 19:58 he's talking about the monster generation thing 19:58 ais523: you don't just miss out on candles 19:58 you don't get a magic lamp there every game, and nothing else is all that valuable 19:58 you miss all the pre-MT loot 19:58 mithril coat, etc 19:58 plenty of tools also 19:58 and occasionally useful MT shop items 19:58 <@Tone> Minetown has a lot more to offer than magic lamps 19:59 even turncount speedruns go to minetown I think 19:59 <@Tone> except for orc town >_> 19:59 I often don't get a mithril-coat in upper Mines even if I look for one 19:59 realtime certainly does 19:59 orc-time a shit 19:59 a shit!!!! 19:59 (and it can be quite dangerous to try, because that monster wearing the coat will be hard to kill) 19:59 uh oh Tone, sombody should have built a wall. Now we have all these freaking Orcs. 19:59 orc-town* 19:59 orctown sucks 19:59 apt mistyping tbh 19:59 rebatela: [backscroll] my answer to the hooa stuff was to make it "ascended (in dishonor)". still an ascension, but everyone knows you took the easy way. 19:59 easily one of the worst 3.6 feature changes IMO 20:00 <@Tone> pure min-maxed turncount speedruns wouldn't, but going to minetown makes it more consistent 20:00 it works great for flavor but sucks if you were starved for altars 20:00 <@Tone> And it may not matter if you finish everything but the quest by turn 2000 anyways 20:00 er 20:00 orctown has a nice altar 20:00 that's one of its few plusses 20:00 that's catually one of the few things orctown has more value of 20:00 aosdicts version of orctown is actually quite good 20:00 altar 20:00 wow. that was the worst experience i've had with the fucking mysterious force since forever 20:00 <@rikersan> what'd you change aosdict? 20:00 lol "You read the scroll. This looks like an arcane fragment of C code." 20:00 my version of orctown is a little too loot heavy 20:00 it doesn't have a temple for protection, but it has a basically free coaligned altar 20:01 I think it's much better than what people give it credit for 20:01 i've died many times on astral where if i had gotten the first altar and just used a wish i would have ascended 20:01 I'm overstating how much I hate Orc-Town but it's honestly pretty jebaited 20:01 due to the sheer amount of corpses 20:01 klintos_: what sort of scroll is that? 20:01 you can sacrifice to make coaligned 20:01 that's like 20:01 the only benefit to orctown 20:01 I'm assuming it's from a variant 20:01 3.6.2 orctown now guarantees gloves below minetown 20:01 and some minor loot 20:01 orctown should always have the orc mines end 20:01 to make up for it 20:01 @ais523 " You see here a scroll labeled PLZ RETURN TO DEVTEAM. 20:01 orc mines end is not vanilla 20:01 maybe that's not true for folks who do this for their life or whatver. but cmon. getting the wrong altar is supposed to be part of it. and then picking the wrong one again and having to go all across astral... 20:01 the orc mine's end is op lol 20:01 it's Khor's 20:01 and yeah 20:01 it's disproportionally valuable 20:02 orctown came from sporkhack 20:02 kinda in the reverse direction of orctown 20:02 @rikersan one alive shopkeeper barricaded behind boulders, other shop contents scattered around town, all items that would have generated with a guard are dropped on its corpse 20:02 right, where do you think all the orcs came from? Khor's obviously ;) 20:02 are you guys kidding me? you're supposed to just skip that? anyone can come up with Hooa by that point 20:02 ais523: It's a scroll of missing code, from TNNT. 20:02 it defeats the whole purpose 20:02 ah right 20:02 <@Tone> Every other minetown already has guaranteed gloves 20:02 I was going to say "there are still TNNT scrolls floating around from last November?" but I guess it's one of next November's that escaped early 20:02 and even if you don't find it/polypile for it, you can save a wish 20:02 it makes the endgame ridiciluously easy 20:02 unfortunately the gloves can be fumbling lol 20:03 because they can be magical 20:03 rofl, I'm p. sure at this point, people are less nettled by the prospect of preferring not to use hoOA and more nettled by the insistence on dragging out the subject 20:03 but it's the best players in the world defending it! sad... 20:03 i'm some jerk for pointing it out 20:04 fwiw, the HoOA is so bizarre from a flavour/lore perspective that removing it from the game entirely might be a viable option 20:04 players who've experienced the game inside out several times by now 20:04 there's pointing it out and then there's... this 20:04 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 20:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 20:04 in D&D it has mostly roleplaying effects, that doesn't fit well into a computer game 20:04 ooh AntiGulp is back 20:04 ais523: if you remove the hooa in 3.6.4 I'll cry variant :P 20:04 * LarienTelrunya casts Summon AntiGulp! 20:04 you already do LarienTelrunya so whatevs 20:04 another antigulp appears! 20:04 AntiGulp: Messages from FIQ have been forwarded to you privately. 20:05 AGH 20:05 * FIQ quickly wipes out the fancy pentagram he was making 20:05 aren't most instances of conducts in Nethack just boneless roleplaying anyway 20:05 LarienTelrunya: 3.6 is effectively a variant already :-P 20:05 :B 20:05 ha 20:05 YEEEEEEEEEAH! thanks ais523! you've confirmed what I had always known! you're great! <3 20:05 I remember talking about this with K2 and hothraxxa a few days ago 20:05 please remove the mysterious force along with hooa 20:06 what is hooa 20:06 for a while I stubbornly insisted on 3.6.0 not being vanilla 20:06 also nothing says whiplash like whistling over your troll to eat a stone giant corpse 20:06 only to find it's also a stone giant now 20:06 because of its sheer amount of changes I disliked and its lack of things I did like 20:06 the mysterious force is a bad solution to a genuine problem 20:06 what if he removes it in 3.7.0? obviously it wouldn't happen in 3.6.x because of save compat 20:06 3.6.x after .0 improved matters 20:07 aosdict: you can make it stop generating in new games 20:07 and be unwishable 20:07 oh that's my other contrarian opinon. i think the myserious force is awesome 20:07 easily enough 20:07 FIQ there have been much greater significant changes between nethack versions 20:07 you call those variants too? 20:07 aosdict: you can set an item's generation chance to 0 and make it unwishable 20:07 the genuine problem being what? 20:07 that's pretty close to an outright removal 20:07 AntiGulp: helm of opposite alignment 20:07 FIQ: In regards to the messages, it looks like you were referencing the wiki, which references the ne version. The current version of Splice on hardfought is…. super super super out of date. Like multiple months. I’m updating it in a few weeks. 20:07 wrt the mysterious force 20:07 ais523: ninja'd 20:07 AntiGulp: oh 20:07 ok then I will not play 20:08 AntiGulp: hdf-splicehack is probably less out of date than hdf-slex though because I just can't get a release version ready :P 20:08 ais523: That was NOT what you, as a devteam representative, needed to say to Amy. Now she'll never let go of that validation. 20:08 AntiGulp 0.7 when 20:08 antigulp: i said i was going to make a variant that mixed evilhack and and your game/slashem/slex with the only changes being no elebereth and no helm of opposite alignment. 20:08 aosdict: I just found it funny 20:08 well the force is mostly the reason to wish for hooa in the first place 20:08 i think ais523 is just fucking with LarienTelrunya 20:08 given that it vindicates a view I *used* to have 20:08 luxidream: from a speedrunner's perspective. 20:08 and was recently mocked for 20:09 K2: When I finish implementing splicing. If I really wanted to, I could probably slam through the rest of my 0.7 features tonight and drop it right now. 20:09 no one likes the force.. that's why it's there 20:09 it's supposed to suck 20:09 non-speedrunners don't wish for hooa 20:09 may the force be with you 20:09 The mysterious force is mysterious because none of us know why it’s still around 20:09 for obvious reasons 20:09 dropping a variant release on oct 24. bold move 20:09 AntiGulp just let me know when :) 20:09 aosdict: why? 20:09 tnnt 20:09 oh 20:09 right 20:10 i've seen many many many non-speedrunners "ascend" at the wrong altar with the helm 20:10 controversial opinion: if Gehennom were in general more interesting, and the combat was actually difficult, etc., then the mysterious force would add to the game 20:10 I was actually gearing up for a release of fh 4.3.1 in.. I think oct 2018? or possibly 2017 20:10 ais523: I agree with that 20:10 Because according to history, every time I release Splice, a new vanilla version will release. 20:10 then I realized that devnull was a thing 20:10 figured I'd wait for december 20:10 then I forgot about it all and did other hings 20:10 *things 20:10 I am easily distracted 20:10 FIQ: I mean, I doubt that antigulp can top splicehack's initial release. 20:11 wasn't it released like 20:11 the same day as vanilla 3.6.1? 20:11 AntiGulp: we're not coordinating it, at least I think we aren't 20:11 yes 20:11 * AntiGulp released splicehack 10 hours before 3.6.1 20:11 haha 20:11 rip 20:11 ais523: would there be a non-random way of implementing the mysterious force? 20:11 I was like "Woo! Another 3.6.0 variant!" 20:11 although it's very hard to predict whether an attempt to release vanilla will succeed or not 20:11 the variance is the most frustrating part 20:11 aosdict: reminds me of the april 1 release spam around 2014 20:11 luxidream: that's an interesting idea; I think there could be 20:11 FIQ: that /was/ coordinated though 20:11 yeah 20:12 it was intentional 20:12 lots of playerrs, not spedrunners, think the goal is to obtain a helm of opposite of alignment so they only have to visit one altar 20:12 I don't remember which ones did release 20:12 grunut, nitro and ace iirc? 20:12 no wait 20:12 one of them was nethack4 20:12 luxidream: is the variance frustrating to you only as a speedrunner, or also for other reasons 20:12 i think that's wrong 20:12 *grunt 20:12 aosdict: Fun fact, I was planning on calling Splice the first 3.6.0 variant, and then you released XNetHack a few days before my planned release. I was so salty lol 20:12 grunt, nitro, nethack4 20:12 (I know why it would be frustrating to speedrunners, I pretty much wrote the manual on what's frustrating to speedrunners: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Making_your_game_speedrunner-friendly) 20:12 ais523: for the record, the months of june and november, dont ever release a new version in those months 20:13 FIQ: I think one of them was Un, not sure though 20:13 ais523: sorry, did you clarify the "genuine problem" the mysterious force is a bad solution to? 20:13 <@Tone> The myst force is annoying in general. I've wished for HoOA as a lawful in normal games 20:13 please pass along to the rest of the devteam :) 20:13 Ah, let me read that :) 20:13 so in my variant, therre will be no hooa. it's escaping IMO 20:13 <@Tone> I've watched stenno #quit games because of it 20:13 aosdict: it means that a) there's no advantage to pre-exploring Gehennom because the stair-to-stair exploration can be done just as easily on the way up as the way down, b) means that areas of Gehennom that aren't on the route between the stairs are pointless 20:13 the myserious force is supposed to be annoying 20:13 aosdict: what you'd get if you removed the force, that is 20:13 ais523: the solution fh (and some other variants) uses is to make amulet block noteleport 100% but remove the MF 20:13 i hate it too 20:14 so the exploration time is roughly the same 20:14 rebatela: when will your variant get a github repo? 20:14 but no frustration 20:14 ais523: ...that has a trivial solution 20:14 FIQ: you should watch me asc run sometimes 20:14 36 hours roughly 20:14 lawful force + no teleporting 20:14 spawn the user on a random location 20:14 instead of the > 20:14 <@Tone> ais523: You could make every upstair drop you at a random point on the level 20:14 when walking upstairs 20:14 <@Tone> Yeah what FIQ said :) 20:14 because of the Mysterious Force 2.0(TM) 20:14 also, forcing people to follow the same route multiple times gives you an incentive not to just run from everything 20:14 that might be less of a problem, though? 20:14 the fact that everyone hates the myserious force is the exact reason why it isn't going anywhere 20:15 that's the point!! 20:15 ais523: Ideally, pre-exploring gehennom top-down should be an advantage because you get much nastier monsters and challenges down low. But nethack doesn't do well with really tough common mons. 20:15 rebatela: wtf I love the mysterious force now 20:15 rebatela: I'm not sure it exists /to be/ hated 20:15 aosdict: NetHack doesn't do well with anything Gehennom 20:15 aosdict: there's a limit to how nasty a NetHack monster can be 20:15 you think some people enjoy it ? 20:15 it's easily the worst part of the game 20:15 almost everything in Gehennom is not a match for the player 20:15 isn't it more an artifact of the past 20:15 very few people actually defend it anymore 20:15 the main exception is the HPoM, woh is in fact fairly dangerous 20:15 3.6.x manages to somehow make it worse 20:15 *who 20:15 it's just me 20:16 i'm the only one who defends it 20:16 I commend them for accomplishing this 20:16 except not really 20:16 and i hate it like the rest of you 20:16 FIQ: the only change I'm aware of is that we fixed the comment to list the correct probabilities 20:16 ais523: corridor mazes 20:16 there might be one I'm unaware of, though, I haven't been following it closely 20:16 oh right, that 20:16 makes it impossible to see where you have explored 20:16 and not 20:16 that's not a mysterious force issue, it is an issue though 20:16 but ais523, I think it makes the game less fun for many 20:16 I really like the 3.6.x change that adds multi-tile wide corridors. 20:16 actually, I'd be happy with a NetHack where the corridors were all wallified 20:16 luxidream? have you ascened at all on the right altar? 20:16 ais523: my comment on 3.6.x worsening things was a continuation of "gehennom sucks" 20:17 OK, I misinterpreted it 20:17 something that exists to be hated does its job too well and people who adjust their playstyle to address and compensated for it get derision because question mark 20:17 <@Tone> FIQ: But the wide mazes make it much more tolerable. 20:17 there's an rgrn thread somewhere where we identified six separate problems with Gehennom 20:17 rebatela: lol 20:17 @Tone another reason to like 3.6.1+ 20:17 every time i watch a game it's always pull out the helmet 20:17 and complained that most attempted solutions got nowhere near solving all six, and in fact might make some worse while fixing others 20:17 completely with implication of questioning someone's legitimacy after backhandedly calling them one of the best out there 20:17 as said, I don't like 3.6.0 at all 20:17 thinking emoji 20:17 but 3.6.1+ fixed a lot of things 20:17 <@Tone> FIQ Indeed 20:17 that made 3.6.0 terrible 20:17 IMO 20:17 I think the corridor mazes are an example of something that fixes one issue (lack of variety) and introduces bigger issues at the same time 20:17 he's just baiting me at this point lmao 20:18 your poor gods 20:18 FIQ: I don't have much code in vanilla NetHack, and most of it is fixing 3.6.0 features I couldn't stand 20:18 it's been like this for the better part of an hour though :n 20:18 so I guess I let the code do the talking in that respect 20:18 ais523: E nerf and speed system change 20:18 :P 20:18 fixing orctown is going to be harder, just reverting it would cause a huge row 20:19 I like xnh's approach 20:19 who was for orctown anyway? 20:19 the "orctown places extra loot in lower Mines" is a start but I still think the whole idea probably can't be made to work 20:19 ais523: it will also cause additional resistance since it already got a "fix" 20:19 luxidream: IIRC lorimer was a big advocate of it even before joining the devteam 20:19 anyway 20:19 I might have got the wrong dev though 20:19 I think orctown is a great idea, and I really love the flavor of it, but I feel like it can never match up to the benefits of minetown. 20:19 ah, the one who made orctown 20:19 xnh places the Frontier Town loot around orctown 20:19 collected by the orcs 20:20 ais523: he was the creator of orctown 20:20 in spork 20:20 ais523: While there may be a limit to how challenging a common monster can be in nethack, vanilla definitely does not reach that high. 20:20 it later made its way to several variants 20:20 my main beef with orctown that (with the exception of slex of course) it replaces a perfectly fine minetown variant, instead of being added in addition to the original frontier town! :P 20:20 slash'em and un 20:21 aosdict: well, the damage formula breaks down when the numbers get higher 20:21 AntiGulp: my take on orctown 20:21 if the devteam ever decides to make changes to orctown, they should take a hard look at aosdicts version from xnethack 20:21 is to either just remove it 20:21 its good 20:21 I don't recall frontier town too well unfortunately 20:21 or balance it with a far more rewarding minesend 20:21 ais523: Corridor mazes just _barely_ add any variety. They don't add any real gameplay variety. It just looks different and is harder. 20:21 but anyway it has become so damn late, I need to get to bed and have at least a few hours of precious sleep 20:21 my dungeon overhaul suggests a minetown II 20:21 many people don't have a good idea of which minetown variant is which anyway 20:21 with survivors from frontier town escaping down from orcs 20:22 LarienTelrunya: sleeeeeep! 20:22 setting up a new minetown 20:22 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1842 points, T:3018, killed by a couatl of Blind Io 20:22 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Sleep-bundle-wing!] 20:22 FIQ: Oooh, that would be fun! 20:22 orctown really sucks for monks because buying protection is kind of clutch 20:22 @FIQ I like that because it's a logical progression 20:22 a lot of times theres another temple and all, but still 20:22 I also had the idea of also have one of them (probably the priest) giving you a quest to dispose of all orcs in the mines area (including orctown) and giving you a reward for doing this 20:22 minetown II is going to lead to huge balance differences between one playthrough and another; maybe that isn't so bad though 20:23 the easiest reward would probably be a protection freebie 20:23 it isn't like mine's end is balanced at the moment 20:23 mazes are just bad design in general 20:23 but I was less sure about this 20:23 since NetHack usually doesn't really do quests 20:23 mm, not *entirely* wrong 20:23 aside from the role quest 20:23 yeah 20:23 a few mazes is OK, I like the mazes between Castle and Medusa 20:23 Gehennom is too much though 20:23 ais523: When I say more challenging monsters I don't mean just heavier hitters. There are all sorts of "fun" things you can do with the existing attacks, damages, and assorted flags. 20:23 oh the cross aligned priest? 20:23 not all mazes have to be bad 20:23 aosdict: and resistances, too 20:24 I've always been an advocate for catacombs being the one level in NetHack 20:24 that does mazes *right* 20:24 it's no problem as long as you have a wand of death and a hooA 20:24 FIQ: catacombs is good, yes 20:24 do you want to meet your god now? then put on the helmet 20:24 strictly speaking mazes are quicker to navigate with magic mapping, and easier to fight in too 20:24 although my dungeon overhaul proposal went and put them in a side branch from Mines rather than as Mine's End 20:24 I'm braindead, what's the catacombs 20:24 FIQ: Your idea of mines end being full of refugees wouldn't *solve* the criticism that "1/7 of games are just hard for no reason" 20:24 the spellbooks have massively varying values for different characters 20:24 maze mine's end 20:24 has 2 vampires 20:24 several mummies 20:24 aosdict: it would balance out the reward total 20:24 Umbire: the mine's end variant with a maze, lots of spellbooks, and a level tele trap under the luckstone 20:24 <@Tone> Orctown already adds balance differences between playthroughs 20:25 oh right, the one I'm in now 20:25 which was my intention 20:25 d u h 20:25 6_9 20:25 FIQ: It's a shame that the catacombs are one of the jankiest-described level files in the game 20:25 yes, the actual code behind the catacombs is completely insane 20:25 but that's not really a conceptual issue with the level design, that's something that's fixable (or leavable) 20:25 I was also considering giving it a guranteed level teleporter so a valid strategy would be to dig down and use it for an one-time "easy" visit 20:25 oh FIQ that reminds me, perhaps you should remove the ordinary teleport trap beneath the catacombs luckstone? 20:26 but it's details that I never really quite realized 20:26 luxidream: Yeah, I deleted the vampires from catacombs. Too difficult. 20:26 it makes it impossible for non-wizards to obtain 20:26 without fiddling with autopickup I suppose 20:26 luxidream: it used to be level teleporters 20:27 the reason I changed it was because level teleporters no longer despawn in FIQHack 20:27 FIQ: yes, but if you're not a wizard you can't get the luckstone 20:27 ais523: I'd really like to see the devteam put out a list of "things we'd like to do but don't have the time to implement, pull requests accepted" 20:27 autopickup 20:27 e.g. "fix mazewalk in ways A, B and C" 20:27 aosdict: we don't have one of those with a collective "we" 20:27 I always figured this was deliberate on DT's part 20:27 different devs have their own ideas, which might conflict with each other 20:27 "without fiddling with autopickup I suppose" 20:27 which is why I merely just changed the penalty to be less severe 20:28 I guess the problem with the way the devteam works at the moment is that there's no unified vision for anything 20:28 you can avoid the vampires in catacombs if they're in fog cloud or bat form 20:28 insert my perpetual advice to get together already and decide as a group consensus what should go in $nextversion 20:28 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28 I think the difficulty of catacombs was mostly from the minotaur that used to spawn there 20:28 seriously it cannot continue like this 20:28 ais523: sounds like DT consists of a group of independent variant developers 20:28 who just happen to work on the same variant by accident 20:29 FIQ: that's a good way to put it 20:29 an even better description would be working on different variants but within the same codebase… 20:29 luxidream: that was only 3.6.0 20:29 3.4.3 didn't have it 20:30 but its vampires didn't polymorph into fog clouds 20:30 nor vampire bats 20:30 I guess you know this, since you play variants 20:30 ais523 it almost sounds like the devteam needs a project manager 20:30 someone to herd the cats 20:30 K2: are you volunteering 20:30 K2: but in this case, most of the cats have day jobs and other hobbies 20:30 yup 20:30 we all do 20:30 so the actual changes go in really slowly 20:31 i'm a senior NCO in the US army. herding cats is part of my job description 20:31 they should have a script that automatically accepts every pull request they get 20:31 this is why you should ask the community for bits of code you want done 20:31 that way NetHack 3.7.0 is sure to be interesting 20:31 project management is sorely needed 20:32 FIQ: yes, but what if it doesn't compile on a pre-C89 compiler? 20:32 aosdict: my usual approach to this so far has been 1: ask DT if a change is desired, 2: upon positive repsonse, make the change 20:32 [hdf-us] [evil] zor (Con Gno Fem Cha), 0 points, T:244, killed by a goblin 20:32 usually things kinda get stuck on 1 20:32 the answer to 1 is "we have no idea" 20:32 one thing got stuck on 2 instead which was far more annoying 20:32 but nobody wants to actually /volunteer/ that answer 20:34 since then I've considered changing 2 to "upon positive response from anyone beyond ais523, make the change" 20:34 because he's not the hard part to convince 20:34 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:53013 20:35 i will say, that project managent online with people you'll never see in person, is infinitely more difficult 20:35 *management 20:35 anyway I should make a PR for symbols fix 20:35 maybe I'll get lucky and it's actually merged 20:35 I have a unusually good record for curses merges in comparision to other merges 20:36 this one is not strictly a curses code change though 20:36 I guess my problem is that atm, I don't have time to do much for the devteam other than answer emails, and I'm often not a particularly appropriate person to answer an email or else have to fear giving an answer that other people in the devteam would be upset about 20:37 so most of the actual emails I've sent are in reply to people who want help installing NetHack on some system I'm familiar with 20:37 ais523: my biggest problem atm with DT is that they seem to really like their privacy 20:37 to the point where I was asking a few days ago whether or not it was a good idea to publicize emails from them 20:37 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 20:37 you're assuming there's some big list of things that are being kept secret 20:38 you have to admit though, the DT has been a lot more responsive of late 20:38 ais523: not really 20:38 its a nice change 20:38 it's more like, if you don't know about something, most of the devteam won't know about it either 20:38 is there like an active dev team who spend their days toiling about nethack code and planning the new version? 20:38 just that DT doesn't really seem to like the idea of being open 20:38 FIQ experience nonwithstanding 20:38 the whole public code thing mostly being an afterthough after supreme demand 20:38 <{Demo}2> DT is epic now 20:38 ais523: the rest of the devteam doesn't seem to care about upsetting the other members 20:38 there's a split wrt openness; many devs like it, many don't 20:38 <{Demo}2> openess is dopeness 20:39 (and it's not just the new devs pushing for openness, either) 20:39 ais523: I have realized at this point that it's safe to assume that DT doesn't have any big plans 20:39 that is kept secret from the public 20:39 nethack plushies 20:40 despite the fact that it really looks that way sometimes 20:40 with how reluctant they are with openness 20:40 big plans kept secret from the public would be more wishful thinking than anything 20:40 <{Demo}2> the DT is too loose to have secret plans if they did they wouldnt even know them ??? idk guessing 20:40 so we have minor bug fixes in the foreseeable future 20:40 and nothing else 20:40 luxidream: one thing I kinda want to see 20:40 i wouldnt say that 20:40 is one DT sneaking in some huge change 20:41 after subtly asking about it in mail without any replies 20:41 "hey I didn't get any reply, how would I know it was disliked" 20:41 *one DT member 20:41 i heard they were eliminating elbereth completely and the helm of opposite allignment 20:41 I believe ais523 has considered that :P 20:41 rofl 20:41 yesterday I had an idea about markers 20:42 I asked about it in here 20:42 luxidream: I was planning to do it with a windowport, but don't have time to write it 20:42 instadeath if you use either 20:42 everyone hated it 20:42 I decided against it 20:42 the thing is, though, that windowports are entirely optional so it wouldn't be trampling on other people's work 20:42 what was your idea 20:42 FIQ 20:42 rebatela: pls dont... id never win again 20:42 instead of markers having charges 20:42 luxidream: writing with markers drains int instead of charges 20:42 they drain int 20:42 as cost 20:42 that's interesting 20:42 how much 20:42 how difficult is the drained int to recover? 20:43 is !oRA enough, or do you need !oGA? 20:43 1dN if blessed, N if uncursed, Nd2 if blessed 20:43 why can't I hold all this bait 20:43 well you cant train int so... 20:43 the latter 20:43 N is 1-3 20:43 depending on what you're writing 20:43 blessed potions of elightenment for int 20:43 that's pretty harsh, actually 20:43 most scrolls would be just 1 20:43 genocide would be 2 20:43 level 7 spells, possibly also level 6 ones, would be 3 20:43 Int can't be exercised iirc so yeah 20:44 lot of other people pointed that out as harsh iirc 20:44 sustain ability / unicorn horn? 20:44 why does the blessed marker drain more int 20:44 genocide, enchant armor was the ones I had in mind to be 2 20:44 iirc 20:44 lol 20:44 among possibly others 20:44 this is a variant thing, Cevn 20:44 luxidream: it doesn't 20:44 once you get able to alchemize full healing into gain ability, you can write an arbitrary amount of stuff 20:44 Nd2 > N 20:44 err 20:44 I meant Nd2 if cursed 20:44 oh mb 20:44 so those probably work differently in this scenario 20:44 1dN/N/Nd2 20:44 unihorn would be different for sure 20:44 for blessed/uncursed/cursed 20:45 what's this a patch idea for again? 20:45 just to clarify 20:45 Cevn's point is valid, which is that it'd have to override sustain ability which is weird 20:45 assuming you have the paper, mightn't there be an infinite loop of charging → horn of plenty → potion → gain ability? 20:45 presumably FIQhack 20:45 yeah idk how it'd interact with sustain ability 20:45 aosdict: not unicorn horn -- that's just restore ability 20:45 although I think that probably has diminishing rather than increasing returns 20:45 and I would make it drain int permanently 20:45 ais523: simply pray to your god to restore your abilities as a favor 20:45 as in, need GA to recover 20:45 that wouldn't be necessary 20:45 idk what to do about sustab though 20:45 luxidream: if RA doesn't work, that probably doesn't work either 20:46 FIQ: out of interest, what's the problem you're trying to fix here? 20:46 ais523: excessive marker spam 20:46 from wishes or polypiling 20:47 doesn't that just mean that people are more likely to use wishes on lower-priority asc kit items, and thus make different games more similar to each other? 20:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 207 points, T:416, killed by a sewer rat 20:47 hm, I don't think most players writing enchant armor is a good use of their ink in the first place 20:47 arguably a better fix would be to reduce the number of wishes/polypiles 20:47 magic markers are very powerful though 20:47 this change would also hurt spellcasters more than anyone else 20:48 hm. i will be nice and keep my wand of wishing in inventory 20:48 especially wizards 20:48 basically I want to make markers not be easily the most generally best item in the game 20:48 let's hope anyone who faces me in the arena doesn't blow it up 20:48 and instead of doing things like make them rarer 20:48 simply just nerf them instead 20:49 I'm going to make my own variant where everything is easier 20:49 and yes luxidream, the spellcaster nerf was intended 20:49 nicehack 20:49 luxidream: do you think that writing ?oEA is incorrect even for a nonspellcaster? 20:49 in evilhack there are no markers... you can't polypile for them and there are no randoms... just one as a chance at soko and then the high priest in moloch's has one 20:49 I think it might still be incorrect, but it's closer in that situation 20:49 ais523: it's common enough a polymorph result that I hardly find myself writing it 20:49 just wishes beyond that 20:50 luxidream: oh, I play most games polypileless or wishless but not both 20:50 so if I'm wishing I wouldn't have polymorph results 20:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) killed Shelob, on T:59229 20:50 rebatela: I read that on here earlier. So rude 20:50 I forget that not everyone plays like I do 20:50 iirc my dungeon overhaul proposal replaces the castle wand with 1 guranteed wish + an assortment of useful items 20:50 including a wand of polymorph 20:50 basically, still a major reward, but not quite as strong as it is now 20:51 my overhaul put a magic lamp (or possibly two, I forget) in the corner chest 20:51 cevn: don't let that discourage you. eh is very fun 20:51 my recent ascension *cough* was polypileless 20:51 and had a guaranteed wish from the castle throne 20:51 because NO FUCKING WAND OF POLY 20:51 heh, seems like my opinions on markers being too OP was true back then too 20:52 because I give players a guranteed marker in castle 20:52 but it's already recharged 20:52 i had a YASD 60k turns in and i can still say it's a lot of fun 20:52 my overhauled castle had +identify, /polymorph, 1:75 marker and ?genocide 20:52 in the 4 corner rooms 20:52 and at least i died elberethless and never changed my alignment 20:52 and guranteed throne wish 20:53 FIQ: perhaps include charging? 20:53 iirc fiqhack tourists get a guranteed marker 20:53 but it's 1:50 20:53 the way the game goes at the moment, markers are a good way to make you sit and think about what you really need, because if you /don't/ actually really need something, you just wish for a marker instead :-P 20:53 perhaps I should simply make markers come precharged as a nerf 20:53 FIQ: the marker is 0: 20:53 0 20:53 ooh 20:53 neat 20:54 after I complained that tourist won the game upon identifying enchant armor 20:54 so you need to charge it in some way 20:54 sounds about right 20:54 i've said this before: wishes are overrated 20:54 it used to come 1:x, right? 20:54 perhaps writing scrolls should cost additional /paper/ 20:54 it used to come 0:x 20:54 lol 20:54 yeah that's too much 20:54 although it's hard for me to balance that, because I seem to end up with only a fraction as much paper as everyone else does 20:54 and yes 20:54 rebatela: if I ever win 3.6 maybe i'll challenge myself on EH.. 20:55 0:0 also makes sense with general tourist progression 20:55 hothraxxa: you're 100% right... that castle wand i bitched about? it was a non factor. i didn't need it at all 20:55 one possible implementation: scrolls have different lengths and blank to "a short blank scroll", "a medium-length blank scroll", "a long blank scroll" 20:55 how will we map gehennom then? 20:55 which is to have a hard earlygame 20:55 but strong lategame 20:55 actually, that seems really like the idea I had for making the price-ID interface better 20:55 early wishes help a lot 20:55 but the castle wand is overrated for sure 20:55 there's also PYEC 20:56 if you make it to the wand, you can ascend 20:56 in case the tou didn't find charging before then 20:56 I like it 20:56 "castle wand is overrated" is a fun phrase; it's an item that basically guarantees you win the game, so it's hard to rate it too high 20:56 well obviously I do, I was the one who made it 0:0... 20:56 but yeah 20:56 cevn: what roles have you been playing? 20:56 but FIQ: charging is pretty much necessary in vanilla, since there is only one wand of death in many games 20:56 and yet many games you don't even really need it, so maybe it's overrated in that sense 20:56 how many wands of death do you normally expend? 20:56 luxidream: you can wish for charging 20:56 there were three wands of death in my game 20:56 you are kind of screwed against the wizard if you run out of charges 20:56 with the throne wish 20:57 sadly i blew up two if them with molly 20:57 and the overhaul still gurantees Orcus' wand 20:57 Yes, also other non-wizard roles need to wish for magic resistance 20:57 quest artifact? 20:57 luxidream: after a few experiments, I found that two-weaponing was the second-best way to take out Rodney 20:57 well ok not all of them give MR 20:57 not every quest artifact gives magic resistance 20:57 one of few dynahack changes I dislike outright 20:57 it made all of them give MR 20:57 also, rodney is overrated too 20:57 which I considered dumb 20:58 it is 20:58 luxi: have you ever just fought the bugger? 20:58 rebatela: Wiz only I don't like the other roles I've tried too much 20:58 YANI (possibly Evil Variant): whenever you kill the Wizard of Yendor, he gains on reappearances immunity to whatever you killed him with on previous attempts 20:58 ais523: i guess i was talking about the evilhack castle wand... a monster used the wishes before i got to it, so i was trying to comfort myself 20:58 Also I've only ascended as wiz 20:58 I have, it can be very difficult 20:58 rebatela: that seems pretty evil! 20:58 it can be, yes 20:58 I did in my paci game 20:58 it was a huge pain 20:58 it often isn't 20:58 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 50 points, T:3, crunched in the head by an iron ball, while dragging an iron ball 20:58 T/3/? 20:58 I hadn't yet discovered that conflict simply makes pets ignore level limits 20:58 even if they resist conflict 20:59 start by reading a scroll of punishment and immediately fall into a pit? 20:59 so I was draining him with the staff of aesculapius 20:59 to put him within level range of my pet 20:59 it was a PITA 20:59 fiq's double trouble rodney is no fun 20:59 hothraxxa: I nerfed it 20:59 !lastgame dbanenethacker 20:59 Umbire: No last game for dbanenethacker. 20:59 yes i know. thanks again 20:59 luxidream: this is why I need to play non-wizards 20:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) killed the high shaman of Moloch, on T:60278 20:59 I can't spell lol 20:59 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 20:59 !lastgame dbanethacker 20:59 I have a bad habit of unconsciously balancing the game around wiz 20:59 Umbire: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dbanethacker/evilhack/dumplog/1571965110.evil.html 21:00 even if it isn't strictly intentional 21:00 because it's basically all I play 21:00 @ais523 - half right 21:00 yes, wizards need less than the average player :) 21:00 playing convict, started with the iron ball 21:00 trap door into instant death 21:00 cevn: i play monks almost exclusively.... they eventually can get basic in every spell school, but the difference is you can actually fight in the early game... you never have to worry about body armor or a weapon 21:00 that's rough RNG 21:01 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 20 points, T:137, killed by a falling rock 21:01 luxidream: there has been a fiqhack bug for several years where you could trivially get immune to melee attacks 21:01 by using pets 21:01 there are tradeoffs. but don't listen to these people who say you need to be vegan or whatever.. eat corpses and ignore the guilty messages (as long as you're killing stuff) 21:01 rebatela: I like getting through early game as a wiz by getting skilled with the daggers in gnomish mines, it feels badasss throwin like 30 daggers as a wiz 21:01 that was fun 21:01 I fixed it recently 21:02 well I never found it 21:02 but that was another example of the game being balanced around my playstyle unconsciously 21:02 because I hardly use pets 21:02 because I didn't really mind until I realized that monsters literally never attacked you 21:02 in melee 21:02 since it helped my style immensely 21:02 there's never been much saying you NEED to be vegan to begin with in my experience, more a personal commitment than anything 21:02 cevn: try monk.. save the food (apples, oranges for horses, fortune cookies for dogs/cats) and play like a normal character and keep training martial arts 21:03 it did take you some convincing that enemy HP and player HP was too high though 21:03 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 17 points, T:103, killed by a jackal 21:03 incidentally, one I'm trying to maintain 21:03 FIQ: Quick question. Is showing skill caps a thing in vanilla? 21:03 see how well I can do with that 21:03 when that bug was around 21:03 luxidream: sorry about that 21:03 it was because I truly did increase enemy max HP 21:03 but the actual effect was far worse than intended 21:03 due to a bug 21:03 might've hecked weaponless after making a wish, though 21:03 basically I intended to give enemies roughly 10% more health or so 21:04 rebatela: I've come close so many times recently.. just died to really dumb stuff... I can't stop playing wizard now 21:04 eventually you can cast all the spells a wizard can at 0% fail 21:04 they got around 150% more health instead 21:04 or more 21:04 AntiGulp: it is not 21:04 why? 21:04 cevn: oh for sure.. if you can get thru the early game for wizard, do it. 21:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) killed the invisible Lungorthin, on T:60450 21:04 AntiGulp: I mentioned a revision earlier that might help 21:04 actually you weren't even here back then 21:04 one sec 21:05 FIQ: Realized I don’t have it in splice for some reason when you mentioned it, thought I should add it. 21:05 fiqhack commit 07afe1a9ee5cc864a62a06760497c3207e3e9210 21:05 just throwing a fun role out there. eary game monk you kinda kick ass and you can learn basic in every spell school 21:05 I like the crazy plays wiz can do with Identify spellbook too, when that comes up early the game is much more fun 21:05 * AntiGulp uses steal! 21:05 you should steal FIQ's temporary summons too :P 21:05 * AntiGulp stole 23 gil and a git commit. 21:05 luxidream: I already have my own temp summon system :P 21:05 doesn't splice have that already? 21:05 in the form of cartomancer CM scrolls 21:05 oh, too late 21:05 wait a second 21:06 new cart is live? 21:06 No, it’s not 21:06 New Splice is not live 21:06 but cart CM scrolls actually make friendly monsters? 21:06 ohhhh 21:06 luxidream: hold on a sec 21:06 the Lily artifact makes much more sense now 21:06 I was so confused 21:06 the lily artifact surrounds you with hostiles lol 21:07 the invoke sucks 21:07 why would create monster be considered an useful invoke effect 21:07 yeah 21:07 unless that has changed recently it's still the same 21:07 wait so it used to be that way 21:07 luxidream: Literally on my list of things to change 21:07 because yeah invoke garbo 21:07 so at one point AntiGulp genuinely considered it a useful effect 21:07 ...why 21:07 cevn: but don't just "ascend" at the fist altar. that's called escaping. some people think they are actually ascending 21:08 dude 21:08 let it go 21:08 lol 21:08 FIQ: Because cartomancers are one of the first things I ever programmed in SpliceHack, hence why there are a total mess. A lot of my work with 0.7.0 has been on making them an actually fun an interesting role for the first time. 21:08 I think it should allow the player to reshuffle scrolls of fire and stinking cloud very often 21:08 AntiGulp: ah 21:08 sounds like dnh binders 21:08 so they can actually fight with cards? 21:08 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:08 except too weak instead of too strong 21:08 they used to be so broken 21:08 it was fun 21:08 it's not like those scrolls are particularly strong, anyway 21:09 AntiGulp: one thing I don't understand 21:09 why the focus on scrolls 21:09 instead of, you know 21:09 the actual deck item that splicehack actually has 21:09 FIQ: They’re not scrolls, they’re “spell cards.” 21:10 :) 21:10 how do you read "the game is more fun early with ID" and decide to use that as a springboard to shill your views on how people "should" play 21:10 the deck item is bad 21:10 that's annoying lmao 21:10 also ya deck item bad 21:10 well, unless you use it to beat demon lords at cards 21:10 you should have the tarot deck have more interesting effects 21:10 AntiGulp: Still no special interaction between carts and decks of [cards/fate]? 21:10 that the player is willing to risk themselves for 21:10 aosdict: Cartomancers use them as if blessed. 21:10 back on subject I'm actually p. excited to see when you get the cartomancer together how you actually want it 21:10 because right now it's basically a one way ticket to die 21:11 aosdict: Also, they can’t draw the tower. 21:11 luxidream: Better than before, when it was a wish engine. 21:11 Wait, tarot decks are already in splice? 21:11 you could look at dcss for effect inspirations 21:11 is the tower a worse effect now? 21:11 AntiGulp: nice 21:11 I remember is not being that bad when I last read the splice source 21:11 it* 21:12 is there a list of card effects 21:12 somewhere 21:12 no 21:12 :( 21:12 * AntiGulp is updating the wiki this week 21:12 *thousand yard stare* 21:12 anyway when I first saw cartomancer 21:12 and that splice had decks 21:12 I figured it was basically dcss nemelex 21:12 in nethack context 21:12 boy was I way off 21:12 lol 21:13 with #techniques for interacting with decks in various ways 21:14 * NCommander waves 21:14 * FIQ waves back 21:15 I need to figure out how to make my monk not suck 21:15 she made it to vlad's without reflection >.>; 21:15 pretend you're a regular melee fighter 21:15 that makes them not suck 21:15 martial arts suck 21:15 in vanilla 21:15 I'm attempting weaponless conduct 21:15 And abusing polymorph 21:15 be a vampire lord 21:16 Causing team c to be an instadeath though 21:16 <@luxidream> I like splicehack 21:16 genocide them 21:16 <@luxidream> I’ll do the decks for you antigulp 21:16 you're not using trice corpspes anyway 21:16 I've been an Aleax for most of it, some master mind flyer 21:16 *corpses 21:16 Sup NCom 21:16 aleax sounds like a fiqhack polyself 21:16 You can use trice corpses without breaking weaponless 21:16 luxidream: Dawwwwww 21:16 geno protection 21:16 didn't know they were useful outside it 21:16 I cleared the sokoban zoo without it 21:16 with one 21:17 Oh yeah, if I'm serious about weaponless (minus an accident with a lamp) and such I'll probably have to accept polymorphing 21:17 a lamp is not a weapon 21:17 I've never really used poly much, but my wishes were GDSM, spellbook of polymorph and ring of poly control 21:18 aosdict: after some thinking I can't figure out a way to make tech trees not just a different flavour on enhance with the same problems the current system has 21:18 fuck 21:18 just broke vegan conduct on reflex 21:18 goddamn wraith 21:18 rip 21:18 Umbire: Oof :( 21:19 xnh supposedly saves you from conduct breaking 21:19 monk ascension is a monk ascension, so I'm just gonna keep at it 21:19 I haven't actually screwed up with a pick so I'm not sure for sure 21:19 all nh4 derivatives do 21:19 too 21:19 at worst I'm just nettled I'm not paying attention 21:19 but I'll be fine :B 21:19 except weaponless 21:19 What annoyed me was I was a master mind flayer when I went after Kaen 21:19 leveling up for quest has been kinda slow anyway 21:19 And *every* tenctile suck mademe guilty 21:20 NCommander: whoops 21:20 wew 21:20 I was thinking "maybe don't mindflayer when I polymorph later" 21:20 for that reaon 21:20 * NCommander has only genocided Team L 21:20 reason* 21:20 hi 21:20 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 21:20 Mind flayers aren't that bad as long as you have good ranged attacks 21:20 hmm 21:20 I want to do object materials in fh 21:21 summoning storms suck though 21:21 surprised you have obj prop but not materials 21:21 but I need to figure out how to make it varied enough 21:21 * NCommander is still amazed he took out kaen and got to vlads without a single source of reflection 21:21 no I mean like turning into one 21:21 so there is an actual point to it 21:21 luxidream: Fun fact, I still have your pastebin of deck of fate suggestions saved. 21:21 because my alignment'll just get hecked 21:21 at least I have reflection on my end :B 21:21 I was thinking to do something like this 21:22 decided to randomly put on an un-ID'd amulet and test a wand of sleep 21:22 worst case I waste a charge 21:22 -!- ichbinmiah has quit [] 21:22 sure enough it was reflection 21:22 Umbire, that's actually pretty brilliant 21:22 (which was really nice since I just got another BoH from Soko) 21:22 I have an amulet of ESP, and I can use that to determine if I found reflection 21:23 that's exactly what I had 21:23 1: have a material comparision table that gives stuff like price modifier, ac, damage bonus with various kinds of weapon (blunt, pierce, etc), spellcast penalty rate 21:23 Sleep spell will bounce right? 21:23 mhm 21:23 2: figure out monster material weaknesses 21:23 if not reflection I just tank it 21:23 * NCommander notes he discovered "oLS due to dying 21:23 3: figure out how to distribute material generation 21:23 me: devises ideal scenarios with which to formally ID items 21:24 also me: completely forgets about the conducts he was playing to try out in the first place 21:24 :B 21:24 * NCommander figures out what else he might want to try to polymorph 21:24 but I'm not sure if it's enough to warrant implementing it 21:24 or if it'll just make things look more fancy with no real difference in practice 21:24 this is what I want to avoid 21:25 Can you convert the unaligned altar in Orctown? 21:25 yes 21:25 I'm entirely out of holy water 21:26 I also kinda want to do material "bonuses" rather than just "penalties" 21:26 FIQ: object materials do NOT need a per-material spellcasting penalty. The formula is way too complex already and too much of a headache for players to keep track of 21:26 a certain role might handle a specific material particularly well 21:26 for example, elves might handle mithril well, but orcs not so well 21:26 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:27 FIQ: the object materials code aosdict made is pretty good 21:27 giving a minor AC and damage bonus 21:27 both myself and AntiGulp pulled it into our variants 21:27 FIQ: please don't follow evilhack into making orcs hate mithril. they love mithril, as does everyone 21:27 neg 21:27 aosdict: I wouldn't make orcs *hate* mithril 21:27 they do 21:27 but I could see giving elves a bonus with it 21:27 <@luxidream> I can confirm 21:27 Sorry aosdict, I’m with K2 on this one. Also, I”m with him on the fact that your object materials patch is fantastic. 21:28 Cevn you can convert most altars outside of a specific few 21:28 see 21:28 <@luxidream> As an irl orc I love mithril 21:28 <@luxidream> AMA 21:28 The point of mithril is that everyone covets it 21:28 orcs only wanted mithril so they could sell it 21:28 it doesn't have magical anti-orc properties 21:28 it does 21:28 aosdict: I don't have anything against orcs using mithril 21:28 whether or not you DO convert the altar is a partly luck-based thing 21:28 aosdict: Then why do orcs get stabbed by it so often 21:28 checkmate 21:28 <@luxidream> in your game it does 21:28 K2: Not in Tolkein it doesn't. 21:28 (as in in-game Luck) 21:28 what I said above was badly worded 21:28 I sacrificed my dead cat. Think I fucked up a lil 21:29 Mithril is basically titanium alloy. 21:29 Cevn: OOF 21:29 ...yeah 21:29 I didn't mean to give orcs a particular penalty, but merely point out that orcs don't really do mithril 21:29 <@luxidream> In evilhack illithids are also separate from mind flayers 21:29 in the LotR, orcs only wanted mithril because of its value 21:29 NEVER sacrifice former pets 21:29 and thus wouldn't get a bonus with it 21:29 not to use 21:29 that's an instant shitlisting 21:29 <@luxidream> so evilhack has its own lore 21:29 <@luxidream> clearly 21:29 any dead not-your-pet cats are fine 21:29 K2: We don't really get to see what orcs would have done with mithril if Sauron wasn't there to send it to. 21:29 I mean it wasn't my fault she died. If it was real life she would have been ok with her corpse advancing my victory I'm sure. 21:29 K2: That's because LOTR orcs don't appreciate quality. 21:29 They don't _care_ about quality. 21:29 correct 21:30 elves, who have an iron penalty, balances it by getting a mithril bonus 21:30 they just care about killing elves and $$$ 21:30 orcs doesn't get either 21:30 Well I take it back there was a calculated force bolt shortly prior... 21:30 I also disagree with other evilhack mithril buffs 21:30 FIQ: elves get a bonus wearing mithril armor in evilhack 21:30 mithril is already very good as it is 21:30 <@luxidream> Try chatting an elf in nethack 21:30 <@luxidream> It’s the other way around 21:30 Also, orcs just like killing, generally. They don't really care that much WHO or WHAT they're killing. 21:30 I chatted the succubus sent to kill me and it 'raised me to my fullest potential' though and teled away 21:31 What a life 21:31 THey'll happily kill dwarves, elves, men, hobbits, other orcs, ... 21:31 the beauty of open source, is that with my variant, i can do whatever the fuck I want 21:31 yeah, that's what succubi do 21:31 ya open source 21:31 Cevn: quite the horrible fate eh 21:31 you kinda wanna pacify your god though 21:31 Moloch ain't so bad after all... 21:31 also, it's less "you're the reason she died" and more "you literally repay your pet's service by desecrating their body to curry favor" 21:31 never really understood gods sending you foocubi because they were pissed at you 21:31 it's usually a good thing 21:31 There's a lot of things I don't understand about NetHack's religion system. 21:32 its because pleasures of the flesh are beneath gods 21:32 NetHack theology is totally whack. 21:32 it's a good thing insofar as you're willing to accept the risks of foocubui fiddling 21:32 but tell zeus that... 21:32 the theology is mostly fluff anyhow to be fair 21:32 it is very easy to mitigate them 21:32 My wand of light feels sort of strange.. 21:32 it is 21:32 K2: greek gods in general was rather lenient when it came to stuff like that 21:33 they also didn't really seem to mind adultery 21:33 mostly you want to not be near other killer monsters when dealing with foocubi 21:33 ^ 21:33 the gods should send woodchucks instead of foobuci 21:33 seriously, though, you want to fix that "angry god" thing ASAP 21:33 EPI: when an angry diety sends a foocubus, it should also send several summon-nasties monsters a turn or two later. 21:33 Umbire is right. Angry gods are not fun to deal with long term. 21:33 this but unironically 21:33 Umbire: I will get right on that... I'm sure there are some orcs around... 21:33 jonadab: I've considered adding nymphs and foocubi to summon nasties 21:33 sir carl the woodchuck glares at you fiercely! you feel intimidated by sir carl the woodchuck 21:34 they aren't strictly nasty on their own 21:34 lol 21:34 but alongside other nasties... 21:34 wait my lover is coming in for round 2 21:34 well ok, nymphs can be bad 21:34 but foocubi not really 21:34 depends on how you define nasty 21:34 FIQ: I put island nymphs on the list. Amy complained bitterly, so I guess it was a good idea. 21:34 Feh 21:34 Amulet of change 21:34 jonadab: ha 21:34 and I lost the amulet 21:34 LOL 21:34 but Vlad's should have a "oLS and a "oStragulation 21:34 that amulet is usually cursed 21:34 for some reason 21:34 not that it makes a difference 21:35 established habit 21:35 in evilhack it sure does 21:35 <@luxidream> But Amy loves nymphs? 21:35 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 700 points, T:1842, killed by a rothe 21:35 amy made nymphs have foocubi attacks 21:35 most other "boy sure would suck if you couldn't take this off" items generate cursed majority of the time 21:35 the very first slex game I played 21:35 @luxidream Yes, but island nymphs are _slightly higher level_ than vanilla nymphs. 21:35 so amulet of change follows that same logic 21:35 a nymph pursued me and immediately decided to go all foocubi over me 21:35 So they have _slightly more hitpoints_. 21:35 I thought it was a bug 21:35 it was not 21:35 And that made her hate them with a fiery burning passion, I guess. 21:36 so FIQs first slex game... he got laid 21:36 despite the fact that it breaks after you put them on anyway 21:36 K2: lol 21:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:6348 21:36 :P 21:36 le shrug 21:36 I looked at the code later on 21:36 it was a 1% or 5% for it to happen 21:36 K2: Replace "laid" with a slightly more vulgar word for the same thing, and you've got everyone's slex experience, pretty much. 21:36 alright... successful conversion... that's step 1 21:37 K2: it was also my first introduction to the word fleecy 21:37 it was not my last 21:37 oh, where are you playing Cevn? 21:37 [hdf-us] [evil] zor (Mon Cen Fem Cha), 6999 points, T:2104, killed by a white unicorn 21:37 here TNNT 21:37 at the current rate "fleecy" is gonna stop sounding like a word soon 21:37 I still don't exactly know what it means 21:37 heh 21:38 I .. think 21:38 brb 21:38 jesus 21:38 but amy has a hardon for the word 21:38 I noticed. 21:38 ... 21:38 I got magicbane on the first sacrifice... guess he wasn't angry after all 21:39 in fiqhack I made sacrifices work kinda like ADOM 21:39 you get piety for it 21:39 enough and you get a gift 21:39 instead of just a random chance 21:39 each sacrifice 21:39 FIQ: I have a theory that when she was very young, someone used the word "fleecy" in a very positive way that made an impression on her, and she acquired the idea that a "fleecy" thing is a really good thing that you like. 21:39 Possibly there was a storybook about a fleecy little lamb or something, I don't know. 21:39 jonadab: heh 21:39 fiq, your altar changes profoundly affect the early game 21:39 hothraxxa: I intended to nerf altar conversion, but maybe I overdid it? 21:39 Oh, I think I see where I got it mixed up 21:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +5 greased dragonhide cloak of protection", on T:61969 21:40 "Sacrificing creatures that died while tame[75] will generally cause you to lose three points of alignment[76] and gain the aggravate monster intrinsic "So this is how you repay loyalty?".[77] The pet will have a sacrificial value of −1,[78] so this will only result in the god of the altar being angered;[79][80] the corpse will not be consumed. Former pets that have gone feral no longer count as pets, and may be killed an 21:40 wel holy water is quite difficult to get early on now 21:40 my biggest concern was its dependance on XL 21:40 umm 21:40 maybe this is just me but 21:40 the god of the altar being Moloch 21:40 I usually don't have an altar to convert early 21:40 i.e. you only tilted Moloch but it's "fuck that dude" season every season 21:40 I was good with Anhur just ... needed to align up.. which I think the conversion did 21:40 early to me is pre-Sokoban 21:40 Altar avaialbility is hugely variable. 21:41 you didn't lose too much alignment 21:41 ah. it affects the game a lot later than that 21:41 Some games you find twelve altars before Delphi. 21:41 comparatively 21:41 Other games, you ... don't. 21:41 but now you're gonna have a lot of monsters on your ass 21:41 ah I see 21:41 hothraxxa: by midgame you should have assembled enough gold for a guranteed conversion 21:41 if you needed to 21:41 per "aggravate monster" 21:41 mitigated if you can get stealth in some form 21:41 perhaps i didn't play enough 21:41 <@rikersan> why did my cloak not come out dragonhide :( 21:42 anyways, that was all totally planned and i'll just waltz out of the mines. A cat for a little pointy stick 21:42 i was struggling for holy water in all the games i played 21:42 hmm 21:42 Gonna sign out, I just got the opportunity to play Majesty with someone. This is a potential 1/lifetime opportunity 21:42 maybe I should nerf the conversion threshold? 21:42 Enjoy! 21:42 as in, buff it for players 21:42 Umbire: Thanks! 21:42 EPI: instead of intrinsic aggravate monster, sometimes a disturbed diety may decide to afflict you with intrinsic fumbling. 21:42 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 21:42 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 1837 points, T:2168, killed by a rope golem 21:42 atm it works like this 21:43 well i'm not asking for change. i'm just stating how i found it 21:43 you need a value of 2000 piety for a guranteed conversion, but lower piety may work depending on piety value 21:43 <@rikersan> "i) an uncursed +5 ring of increase damage " neat 21:43 a corpse is worth difficulty*100 piety, unicorns get a bonus 21:43 ooh, fun fact 21:43 gold is worth n/4 piety 21:43 what feedback do you get to determine piety? i don't remember any 21:43 n is gold amount 21:43 apparently trying to sac a pet on another altar pacifies your god 21:44 food is some low piety amount, I do not advise using food to convert altars 21:44 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:27302 21:44 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Fem Law) destroyed the invisible Vlad the Impaler, on T:27305 21:44 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:27307 21:44 hothraxxa: conversion doesn't store up piety 21:44 because you're desecrating someone else's shit 21:44 Died to vlad 21:44 jeez 21:44 close one, NCom 21:44 so having a message for it doesn't make much sense 21:44 Yeah, Vlad's become a right bastard and it's oddly satisfying 21:44 no i mean i'm building piety up, how do i know how much? 21:45 when you want a sac gift? 21:45 yeah 21:45 enlightenment? 21:45 there are various messages depending on how much piety you have at the time 21:45 not sure if they're on the wiki 21:45 enlightenment and sacrifice will tell you 21:45 less than 0 and the god is angry 21:46 i forget. do you still lose luck if you fail to convert an altar? 21:48 0-1k noncommittal, 1k-2k slightly pleased, 2k-3k pleased, 3k-4k very pleased, 4k-5k extremely pleased, 5k-6k favours you, 6k-7k favours you deeply, 7k-8k very deeply, 8k-9k extremely deeply, 9k-10k exalted 10k+ very exalted, crown threshold extremly exalted 21:48 hothraxxa: I think so 21:48 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed amulet of reflection", on T:27554 21:48 maybe I should remove that since it's harder to convert? 21:49 possibly. i just stopped trying to convert altars 21:49 I blew up two amulets trying to poly them, so fuck it 21:49 Wish was worth it 21:50 I also got three scrolls of charging out of polypiling 21:50 So that was a net win. 21:50 we don't look down on your wishes in here, ncommander 21:50 who among us has not had to do the same? 21:50 hothraxxa, I went the entire game without a source of reflection. This wish came from Vlad *and* I took out Kaen too >.>; 21:50 I've never gne that long without reflection 21:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha), 37200 points, T:24026, killed by a scorpion, while paralyzed by a monster 21:51 yeah, justified at that point 21:51 ooooooooooooh 21:51 most people don't survive that long without reflection 21:51 damn 21:51 ascending without ever having used MR or reflection should be conducts 21:51 whoops 21:51 !lastgame oh6 21:51 Umbire: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/o/oh6/nethack/dumplog/1571891217.nh.html | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/o/oh6/nethack/dumplog/1566771179.nh.html 21:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Arc Inc Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1228 21:51 !tell K2 minor change: altar conversion is easier but failure summons a minion. Luck never decreases 21:51 I'm on it, FIQ. 21:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:7922 21:51 <@rikersan> I remember losing a monk in hell to a black dragon once, because I never noticed I didn't have reflection :/ 21:51 just a bit too casual about that gelatinous cube 21:51 my tnnt monk resorted to a shield she got from an angel until she beat up luxi in the arena 21:52 !tell FIQ you know i'm right here right? 21:52 K2: Message from FIQ at 2019-10-24 21:51 EDT: minor change: altar conversion is easier but failure summons a minion. Luck never decreases 21:52 FIQ shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, K2. 21:52 I'm debating if I want to head back up and make more holy water, or head to orcish town to loot it 21:52 I still need a ring of free action 21:52 K2: you just now said something 21:52 FIQ: Message from K2 at 2019-10-24 21:52 EDT: you know i'm right here right? 21:52 your msg before was 15min ago 21:52 so I didn't know 21:52 oh, so it was a cube 21:52 !tell FIQ ok 21:52 Will do, K2! 21:52 couldn't tell, the messages just had you being whaled on 21:52 but yeah, that sounds like a frustrating death :< 21:53 I only generally convert altars as a last resort 21:53 I do it out of habit so I don't have to trek as far to sac stuff 21:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased filth-crusted +5 helping hand", on T:62386 21:53 you used to need difficulty 20 monsters to gurantee altar sacrifice 21:53 FIQ: Message from K2 at 2019-10-24 21:52 EDT: ok 21:54 which is like... titans 21:54 I don't usually have *profound* trouble 21:54 a bit much 21:54 conduct: never converted an altar 21:54 I changed so now you only need 1200 piety 21:54 <@rikersan> hah, my quest is on lvl 14 this game 21:54 $4800 gold or a difficulty 12 monster gurantees it 21:54 GOing up the castle seems the right move 21:55 <@rikersan> @ChrisANG universal keys aren't seen as winding tools for clcks (garnet rod) 21:55 what is a universal key 21:55 I thought it was just a skeleton ke 21:55 <@rikersan> that's really good question 21:55 y 21:55 I mean, skeleton keys are universal 21:55 conduct: converted every altar possible 21:55 <@rikersan> I have zero clue why they exist 21:55 that's why it's called a skeleton key 21:56 <@rikersan> esp considering the arti alignment keys are skeleton ones too... 21:56 <@rikersan> it's only the garnet rod & silver key 21:56 hmmm 21:56 at one point NetHack had various kinds of keys 21:56 triangular, etc 21:56 it was eventually removed 21:57 I have a feeling it was too annoying with the way NetHack item stacks wor 21:57 k 21:57 if autounlock existed back then in vanilla 21:57 <@rikersan> ya these aren't normally generated 21:57 maybe we still would have them 21:57 <@rikersan> looks like they have a 10% higher chance to unlock stuff though :) 21:57 110%? 21:58 <@rikersan> nah 21:58 god damn 21:58 almost got killed again 21:58 <@rikersan> it's 75+dex for sk, 85+dex for uni 21:58 uhh 21:58 keys always unlock thigns 21:58 *things 21:58 <@rikersan> this is 3.4.3 not sure if 3.6 changed that 21:58 they never fail 21:59 <@rikersan> not in dnh 21:59 huh ok 21:59 <@rikersan> and I doubt chris changed that 21:59 <@rikersan> I mean keys have a 75% per try to unlock it, and you don't get a message each time you fail unless you fail 30 times? 21:59 what happened NCom? 21:59 oh so it just retries 22:00 that explains why people don't notice 22:00 yeah RNG has to turbocuck you for something not to unlock 22:00 Lol 22:00 I saw that cevn 22:00 at least you didn't die on an upset tummy 22:00 I 22:00 it does kinda explain how the watch can catch you though 22:01 ?? 22:01 I just figured it always took 2 turns 22:01 :P 22:01 oh yeah! 22:01 apparently they do that with keys too 22:01 prayed got my blessed potions, got a silver dragon scale mail, then died by eating a corrupted blob of gray ooze 22:01 and not just other lock picks 22:01 <@rikersan> fiq; yep the lock code is wack 22:01 Oh, that's a fat RIP 22:01 <@rikersan> I believe it also checks hardcoded skills for is_slashing and stuff for bludgeoning chests vs prying them 22:02 <@rikersan> instead of checking whether the weapon is slashing or something 22:02 <{Demo}2> goofy 22:02 I guess I didn't think gray goos rotted 22:02 <@rikersan> (I believe that's in 3.6.x too but I'm not 100%, I talked about it with aosdict a while back) 22:02 all corpses rot 22:03 <{Demo}2> gray goose 22:03 corpses/globs* 22:03 unless they're lizards or lichen 22:03 <{Demo}2> !vodka Cevn 22:03 * Beholder delivers Cevn a glass of Stolichnaya vodka, brewed by Rodney at 175 degrees Fahrenheit. 22:03 acid blobs are acidic and rot but they're good to eat/sac until they do 22:04 Fuck it, i'll drink some vodka to that 22:05 The only way to deal with the pain is to inflict another game upon myself 22:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 57 points, T:39, killed by a kobold, while praying 22:07 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 394 points, T:1661, killed by a coyote 22:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) killed Illurien of the Myriad Glimpses, on T:63064 22:10 Ok, need to recover from that, and actually get to the point I can survive 22:14 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:14 Cevn thats the spirit 22:16 w00t 22:16 ok, got plenty of holy water 22:16 <@FIQ> Neither lichen or lizard rots 22:16 NCommander heya 22:16 how you been? 22:17 Surviving 22:17 The last few months have been hell 22:17 On the plus side, I got a monk to vlad and back without reflection which is pretty impressive and scary 22:18 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 22:18 i saw 22:19 glad you're feeling a bit better 22:19 missed ya around here 22:22 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1134 points, T:1550, killed by a boulder 22:22 Freaking game is going tomake me with for a ring of free action 22:22 *sigh* 22:23 !who 22:23 K2: [hdf-us] Arimja [nh363] dgoddard [nh363] JohnKeel [tnnt] Hill [tnnt] Cevn [tnnt] luxor [slshm] dragonspeaker [dnh] zor [dnh] rikersan [dnh] NCommander [xnh] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 22:23 -!- tonehack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25 * NCommander mulls his next action 22:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) used a helm to turn lawful, on T:11458 22:25 Nurse dancing for HP might not be a bad idea 22:25 I'm insanely squishy 22:25 hey Cevn 22:25 about to update tnnt, its gonna break saves just fyi 22:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Law) averted death, on T:11502 22:38 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 22:46 Well that was a success 22:46 * NCommander has a base HP of 303 from 100 22:46 wow 22:48 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Fem Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon her by Shan Lai Ching, on T:31182 22:48 I'm considerably less squishy :) 22:52 :) 22:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bin Elf Mal Non), 2462 points, T:1794, killed by a gnome 22:55 you're considerably more pointy 22:57 hah 22:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bin Elf Mal Non), 286 points, T:393, killed by a goblin 23:00 ARGH 23:01 * NCommander ended up with the bell and canderium cursed 23:01 AGAIN 23:02 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 23:08 Oh no D: 23:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 290 points, T:356, killed by a system shock 23:11 -!- djm2k has joined #hardfought 23:11 Maybe worth polying into a jabberwock 23:11 Is a scroll of "missing code" a real thing? 23:12 djm2k: in TNNT, yes 23:12 it is for a special challenge. hold on to it 23:12 Ah I see, thanks 23:12 -!- djm2k has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 31 points, T:10, killed by a sewer rat 23:13 I wonder if slex has implemented scrolls of missing code by now 23:14 or swapchest 23:14 or devteam player monsters 23:16 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Fem Law) killed Yeenoghu, on T:33810 23:19 That was "fun" 23:20 fun is generally regarded a sa Good Thing™ 23:27 No worries my saves all suck 23:27 you're really doing me a blessing 23:29 I dunno if K2 beefed up Gehemoum but man, I feel like I'm a second away from dying atany moment 23:33 Good to know the whole game has gotten harder instead of just the part i've gotten to 23:34 i'll host my own november 3.4.3 tournament >_> 23:36 heh 23:36 !who 23:36 K2: [hdf-us] Arimja [nh363] Bartlem [tnnt] Cevn [tnnt] luxor [slshm] dragonspeaker [dnh] rikersan [dnh] Hratt [evil] AntiVirus [evil] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] djm2000 [tnnt] 23:37 NCommander you playing under an alias? or local? 23:37 <@rikersan> oi these gremlins yoinked my teleportitis 23:37 <@rikersan> that is not groovy 23:38 <@rikersan> can they steal crowning intrinsics? 23:38 i think so 23:38 <@rikersan> they better not have 23:39 K2, I just signed out. 23:39 how many times did you hear a gremlin chuckle 23:39 NCommander ah 23:40 <@rikersan> dunno I'll have to check the ttyrec since I didn't see any chuckles :/ 23:40 <@rikersan> past msgs is gone 23:40 hmm someones on my bones 23:41 this will be an interesting story if i can survive my cat 23:41 <@rikersan> where's ais's ttyrec recorder again? 23:41 K2, I've always had issues trying to get a monk off the ground; I think I got the amulet with one before but I dunno what compelled me to roll one up :( 23:42 I suicided to a naga hatchling so i'll never know what happened now 23:42 lol 23:43 monks are awesome in evilhack 23:43 two attacks per turn at grand master 23:44 you can now break boulders and statues bare handed using martial arts (skilled and above) 23:44 <@rikersan> thank god, only teleportitis 23:44 the eyes of the overworld are enhanced 23:44 <@rikersan> that sucks but I would have been angry if I lost smth important like sleep 23:45 Cevn heh 23:45 @rikersan oh good... could be worse 23:45 <@rikersan> it definitely could be lol 23:46 <@rikersan> I did just realize I need genocide and I do not have any, and I do not have a marker with enough charges (1:14) either :/ 23:46 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping 8 silver crossbow bolts on an altar, on T:3026 23:46 <@rikersan> that's rather annoying I must say 23:46 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 1861 points, T:1251, killed by a rothe 23:48 Can I tell whether a loadstone is in a box by picking the box up? 23:48 Not necessarily 23:48 i'll play it safe then 23:48 If you can pick the box up, you can #tip it to get the lodestone out 23:48 ^ 23:49 then kick test the stone to be sure 23:49 wtf 23:49 that actually worked 23:49 why would it not :B 23:49 what the hell is tipping 23:49 it tips a container 23:49 <@rikersan> 3.6. thingy you can #tip a container to dump it all out 23:49 exactly what it says on the tin 23:49 i really gotta read these release notes 23:49 <@rikersan> doesn't require hands, so that holy water inside your BoH to uncurse your axe? 23:49 A rare mechanic added in UNH (and 3.6) to let you get holywater out of a bag if your hands are weld to a dual handed weapon 23:50 made necessary since getting two-handed weapons cursed while wielding them is a thing that exists 23:50 how much does one #tip? 10%? 23:50 oh ho 23:50 You don't need to pick a container up to #tip it. 23:50 be sure you're taken out the rest of the contents, though 23:51 I think unless it's a BoH there's a change of breakage 23:51 or does "BoH contents don't break" only apply to *throwing* a BoH? 23:51 <@rikersan> gotta be extra safe/paranoid - carry an oilskin sack with individually named holy water and your wands of cancellation 23:52 !who 23:52 JonathanHanes: [hdf-us] Arimja [nh363] Bartlem [tnnt] gxe99 [tnnt] Cevn [tnnt] luxor [slshm] malor [dnh] Hratt [evil] AntiVirus [evil] akaelai [slex] NCommander [xnh] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] djm2000 [tnnt] 23:57 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2076 points, T:3785, killed by a mastodon 23:58 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) killed Orcus, on T:34996 23:59 * NCommander successfully stoned Orcus without a single charge being used o/