00:01 [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) had Werebane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:9759 00:14 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 2684 points, T:2541, killed by a spotted jelly 00:30 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 1659 points, T:3005, killed by a human mummy 00:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Mon Swn Fem Cha) was given their Quest, on T:24986 01:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 2145 points, T:2199, killed by a kitten 01:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1100 01:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 2073 points, T:1268, killed by a small mimic 01:33 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:33 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 01:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Arc Hum Fem Law), 3600 points, T:1365, killed by a pony 01:42 bubbles_nh: yaaaaaaaaay you gave slex a try? did you have fun? *bubblebubblebubble!* 01:55 !tell AntiGulp lol @ teleporting all the demon lords to you whenever you go up a staircase. Now you cannot avoid them at all anymore, so your character absolutely *must* be able to kill them or the game is practically unwinnable. I wouldn't want to be tag-teamed by Demogorgon and the new Baphomet because that sounds like literally "uberscaremonster 01:55 No worries, LarienTelrunya, I've got this! 01:55 or game over"... 01:59 I'm feeling that a bunch of the splicehack additions have balance issues, similar to the stuff in regular slashem, but maybe that's just me... 02:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] zblargles (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) had Frost Brand bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:16297 02:18 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 02:18 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:19 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 02:19 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 02:19 oh hi AntiGulp! there's a message to you from me :) 02:20 The one on github? I just responded! :) 02:20 AntiGulp: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2019-10-23 01:55 EDT: lol @ teleporting all the demon lords to you whenever you go up a staircase. Now you cannot avoid them at all anymore, so your character absolutely *must* be able to kill them or the game is practically unwinnable. I wouldn't want to be tag-teamed by Demogorgon and the new Baphomet because that sounds like literally "uberscaremonster 02:20 Oh oops 02:20 oh they become non-covetous, I see 02:21 LarienTelrunya: Also, it doesn’t teleport the demon lords *to* the player. I specifically avoided that by keeping the functionality out of keepdogs(). The demon lords migrate to the next level. 02:21 so you basically have to kite and kill them because otherwise going up the stair puts them next to you again, right? 02:21 LarienTelrunya: Nope, they just go up a level. They don’t appear next to the player when they do so, unless RNG so decrees. 02:22 oh I see 02:22 Because yeah, if they warped to the stairs and the player that would be awful 02:25 !who 02:25 JonathanHanes: [hdf-us] No current players | [hdf-eu] AlbertB [nh363] | [hdf-au] No current players 02:28 LarienTelrunya: Still planning on stealing post-ascension freeplay :D 02:29 :) 02:31 Splice is getting close to 0.7.0. Just gotta actually write splicing, add a few special levels, and I’m set. 02:37 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:48 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 02:58 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 660 points, T:2004, killed by a dwarf 03:38 -!- wvc has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:41 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:43 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought 03:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v remirol] by ChanServ 03:44 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:09 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:24 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:28 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:30 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 04:55 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:02 -!- BEHiker57W has joined #hardfought 05:25 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +2 helm of drain resistance", on T:23285 06:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) was given their Quest, on T:23501 06:19 well that sucks, something just canceled my death/teleport wands 06:25 demogorgon is one lvl up from VS lvl. that should be easy enough to remember 06:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Master Kaen, on T:24658 06:29 Ouch 06:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Axus, on T:26341 06:45 bhaak talks about nethack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4PaG6C2EeQ 06:51 that was in Sofia, Bulgaria 06:52 that was also the talk were people in the chat were going 'what is this old white man talking about? what the fuck is a nethack?' 06:52 there's finally a generation that didn't get introduced to roguelikes by nethack 06:54 -!- stennowork has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) wished for "blessed greased bag of holding", on T:26837 07:10 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 07:10 -!- stennowork is now known as Guest24502 07:11 -!- Guest24502 has quit [Changing host] 07:11 -!- Guest24502 has joined #hardfought 07:11 -!- Guest24502 is now known as stennowork 07:14 stennowork: have you still seen my comments? 07:15 sorry, what do you mean 07:17 so, you have seen my comments before you disconnected just now 07:18 that talk was in Sofia, Bulgaria. that was also the talk were people in the chat were going 'what is this old white man talking about? what the fuck is a nethack?' 07:18 there's finally a generation that didn't get introduced to roguelikes with nethack 07:22 oh wow 07:22 thats amazing 07:24 also no nethack content for RLC 2019 :/ 07:32 hmm when i started roguelikes, i only knew about nethack (from bash.org and gnu games), and didn't even know roguelike was a genre as such 07:51 it has really been 10 years :P 07:51 more or less 07:52 -!- remirol is now known as lorimer 07:54 "old"? 07:54 Hmm 07:55 bhaak might look like 21 but he is much older :P 07:58 wow none? 07:58 no mention ofnethack at RLC 2019 07:59 stennowork :( 08:00 at least i didn't find it 08:05 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 08:20 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 08:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Bar Hum Mal Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:38116 08:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Bar Hum Mal Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:38496 08:34 <@Umby> Imagine getting shafted into fl9 of the mines while trying out monk for the first time in a while 08:34 <@Umby> and finding another fucking arch-lich 08:35 nah, you got this 08:35 -!- BEHiker57W has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:36 <@Umby> yeah, facing down a teleporting nasties-summoner caster that can instakill with nothing but my basic healing spell, a wand of slow monster, a bunch of darts and starting armor + some iron shoes 08:37 <@Umby> what could possibly go wrong 4Head 08:37 use the force 08:37 OMEGALUL 08:37 heh 08:37 <@Umby> one of these days people will learn to stop doing stupid shit in the mines and dying 08:37 <@Umby> with goddamn Skeletor on their heels 08:38 just chant 'by the power of grayskull!' 08:38 <@Umby> I can only presume bones anyway, I literally got jumped the first step I took after landing on that floor 08:38 or a polytrap that went bad 08:38 <@Umby> also true 08:39 <@Umby> though that sorta begs the question 08:39 <@Umby> granted it's not like there were any other visible clues to go on 08:39 <{Demo}2> skeletor in heels? 08:39 <@Umby> (this was a dark floor too) 08:39 <{Demo}2> new slex monster? 08:39 given that you encountered it immediately means its prob bones 08:40 but for that person, it most likely was a monster that stepped on a polytrap and turned into an arch lich 08:40 or maybe its a chameleon 08:41 <@Umby> no way to tell without actually being able to see shit 08:41 <@Umby> or live long enough to move another few feet 08:42 <{Demo}2> uncontrolled poly should respect dlvl ulvl difficulty limitations 08:42 <@Umby> kinda already rolling up another monk anyway 08:42 <@Umby> and yeah that's at least worth considering 08:42 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Bar Hum Mal Cha) wished for "blessed corpse of a cockatrice", on T:40460 08:43 fun fact: in xnethack, aosdict made it so polytraps take the level into account so it doesnt produce a monster that's too strong or weak for that level 08:43 ^ pretty sure 08:43 <@Umby> which is good 08:43 aosdict should probably clarify 08:43 <@Umby> also that barb wants it partly eaten 08:43 <{Demo}2> and shapeshifters? 08:43 <@Umby> weighs less 08:43 <{Demo}2> I think dnh does similar 08:43 {Demo}2 not sure about shapeshifters 08:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Bar Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Demogorgon, on T:40466 08:44 <{Demo}2> dlvl 7 arch liches are kinda bullshit 08:44 meh 08:44 its nethack 08:44 <@Umby> this was mines dl9 ftr 08:44 <{Demo}2> nethack is kinda bullshit 08:44 i think xnethack also gets rid of 'minesflayers' 08:44 <@Umby> also it being nethack doesn't make it any less categorically bullshit 08:44 DL(? 08:44 so maybe polytrap 08:44 <@Umby> dungeon level 9 08:44 or most likely, rather 08:44 <@Umby> probably, no way to tell 08:45 or chameleon 08:45 chameleons happen at the Oracle 08:45 <@Umby> the last time I ran into an arch-lich in the mines it was my currently-on-hold tourist playthrough 08:45 <@Umby> and scouring the floor showed like no indication of poly traps 08:45 oh mines, ok 08:45 <@Umby> I said mines like three times lmao 08:45 <{Demo}2> poly wand or potion maybe 08:47 xnethack gets rid of minesflayers simply by changing the flayer monster symbol, right? 08:48 its pragmatic 08:51 [hdf-us] [4k] l (Waab) (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 21630 points, T:13114, killed by an ogre 08:52 [hdf-us] [4k] l (Waab) (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 300 points, T:377, killed by a water demon 08:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Bar Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:41307 08:57 I like the random buillshit 08:58 The fact that people have such large streaks indicates there ARE ways round it 08:58 I guess most people would say "don't go past minetown until you're ready for bullshit" 08:58 most/some 08:58 Going past it is absolutely a gamble 08:58 Just with pretty good oods 08:58 odds 08:58 You feel me? 09:00 if you don't care that your character dies, then you can be risky, yes 09:02 [hdf-us] [4k] l (Waab) (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 5910 points, T:2374, killed by a piranha 09:06 <@Tone> You can die to random BS much earlier due to things like poison instadeath and trap doors 09:07 <@Tone> Some players enjoy the randomness, others find it frustrating to die due some things that are reasonably out of their control 09:07 [hdf-us] [4k] l (Waab) (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 1584 points, T:1153, killed by a sewer rat 09:10 That's true tone 09:11 <@Tone> And even the long streaks require luck. Tariru got lucky and dodged a death ray on game 21 or so of his world record streak 09:11 Sure but 21 could have been 20 09:12 Which is still insane! 09:14 -!- BEHiker91W has joined #hardfought 09:14 Tariru's streak is 61 games 09:15 that plus the fact that he has a 4 streak in *slex* makes me jaded to pretty much all other complaints :) 09:16 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:17 Aye 09:17 I love dying 09:17 it is nethack 09:18 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) consumed animal products for the first time, by eating an egg, on T:5454 09:19 Do all the hacks use crypto rng or not? 09:19 I assume so for online abuse/play 09:20 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 09:24 <@Umby> My thing is if I die to getting swarmed after falling down a trap door that I didn't know was there 09:24 <@Umby> that's dumb but not like, inexcusably dumb 09:24 <@Umby> getting deepshafted isn't an instant game ender if I'm cautious, even though it depends on where I land in that floor's map 09:25 <@Umby> but if the floor turns out to be a bones with an arch-lich that ports after me the second I move and summons nasties 09:25 <@Umby> then that's firmly in "fucking stupid" territory 09:26 <@Umby> esp. because I had no real problems with the mines up to that point, and then it's just "whup you lose" 09:28 [backscroll] xnethack closes the polytrap out-of-difficulty loophole, the shapeshifter loophole (mostly), and the mkclass loophole (the usual minesflayer candidate). Minesflayers are also blocked by them being on U instead of h. 09:28 <@Umby> U standing for what 09:28 <@Umby> for sake of asking 09:28 aberration 09:28 <@Umby> o 09:28 umber hulks, flayers, quantum mechanics 09:28 <@Umby> noted 09:29 <@Umby> like, the one with my tourist was goddamn infuriating, but I still legitimately had a chance to get the fuck out of dodge 09:29 <@Umby> (which I did) 09:29 The shapeshifter loophole isn't completely closed on account of sometimes a doppelganger or sandestin will choose to turn into a monster from tne nasty list (chameleons don't do this) 09:29 that does not do a difficulty check 09:30 is there a variant that guarantees a minesflayer? just wondering 09:31 it's also possible to get out of difficulty monsters in bones, but given these loophole closures that's probably someone maliciously bones stuffing rather than some poor soul who got creamed by an arch-lich 09:32 evil patch idea: monsters should read cursed scrolls of genocide to summon multiple nasty monsters of the same type 09:33 :3 09:34 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:7279 09:35 <@Tone> aosdict: Can you still get ood liches at the castle? 09:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:7321 09:35 What's the extra difficulty that mines adds to monster gen? 09:35 <@Tone> It doesn't add anything different 09:36 <@Tone> I almost died to a castle arch lich recently because I didn't go downstairs from Medusa with my blindfold on 09:37 <@Tone> Took the stairs, spent one action putting the blindfold on to check the level will telepathy, that same turn the arch lich teleported to me and cast a spell 09:37 <@Tone> Fortunately it wasn't touch of death 09:39 I thought mines generated out of depth monsters by design 09:39 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:39 Hmm not sure why I think that. 09:42 [hdf-us] [nh4] nyxilia (hackedhead) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 33712 points, T:2677, poisoned by a killer bee 09:42 @Tone the castle still generates L, but this uses mkclass, which has been prevented from giving you out-of-difficulty monsters. 09:43 IIRC, the fix for this was a single line and it's what stenno has wanted for years 09:44 bubbles_nh: The argument that it's by design amounts to "the devteam hasn't addressed it one way or the other for many years" 09:47 Ah fair enough 09:47 I thought there was an explicit difficulty modifier for monster gen 09:53 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Orc Fem Cha), 1528 points, T:2686, killed by a watchman 09:55 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 49 points, T:223, killed by a grid bug, while reading a book 09:56 bubbles_nh, the fact taht out-of-depth monsters can generate is by design 09:56 and its a neccessary design for some situations 09:56 otherwise, being low level would just be too powerful 09:57 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 63 points, T:113, killed by a jackal 09:59 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 52 points, T:133, killed by an arrow 10:00 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 42 points, T:46, killed by a jackal 10:01 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 3 points, T:45, killed by a water elemental 10:02 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 3 points, T:17, killed by a lava demon 10:02 For me the real scary thing about minesflayers is the "oh, that's just a dwarf king" effect 10:03 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 7 points, T:54, killed by a giant spider, while dragging an iron ball 10:03 that is more an interface problem than anything else, imo 10:03 hilighted/underlined peaceful like in xnethack already help a bit with that issue 10:03 even then it's not so bad since they usually give you bad feeling about this before you ever see them 10:03 or like in nethack4 10:04 acehack 10:04 what that mostly works out to is me eyeing every dwarf king VERY suspiciously 10:05 :P 10:05 thats what you have to do, yeah 10:05 unfortunately 10:05 in nodehack-playground, you can hover over a tile to show the tiledata info 10:05 "Are you SURE you don't have brain-sucking tentacles, your highness?" 10:05 unfortunately its not really usable altogether 10:06 Hekik, 'thats not a beard...' 10:06 https://cpmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Chaos-dwarf-wizard-apprentice-cp-models-1A.png mind flayer dwarf 10:11 stennowork: many traps work as lowlevel-deterrents also 10:12 lowlevel deterrent? 10:12 how is that? 10:12 <@Umby> I get what you're saying but I also think trap doors might want a word with you 10:17 wish for GDSM or blessed figuring of an archon? 10:18 what do you have 10:18 and what role are you 10:18 [CoMR, "oR, AC -7 10:18 gnomish healer 10:19 four troll pets. 10:19 XL 5 10:19 Dlvl 16 10:19 i dont really feel like you need either of those wishes 10:19 magic marker? 10:20 maybe. or some artifact if you havent found any already 10:20 magic whistle. Should have asked for a magic whistle 10:20 depending on alignment 10:20 nah theyre common enough 10:20 though useful with 4 pets :x 10:20 Not in my games. Haven't seen one in a long time. 10:21 what do you get in vanilla when you wish for 'magic' ? 10:21 <@Umby> that's just bad rng 10:21 just 'magic' 10:21 1 PW 10:21 lol 10:21 <@Umby> but can you polypile for magic whistles? 10:21 yes, you can 10:21 especially when you have magic tools 10:22 yeah, but youre gonna run into more useful things than magic whistles 10:22 <@Umby> could also polypile for leashes 10:22 <@Umby> lol 10:22 <@Umby> more seriously, if you're doing the low level healer bit then 10:22 spellbook of identify could potentially be a wish if theres not a lot of that stuff going on, but its more of a comfort wish like boh and kinda wasted 10:22 <@Umby> hmm 10:23 +oID and BoH are good items. )Feels like a waste of a wish. 10:23 <@Umby> even in the weird hypthetical edge cases where you'd want to wish for a spellbook over a magic marker 10:24 <@Umby> you usually only go for specific spellbooks if you have any ability to cast reliably in that school 10:24 a wiz would def go for the marker 10:24 <@Umby> he's a healer 10:24 yeah, so getting a blessed +oID is more straightforward 10:25 since i assume the spellbook is yet unidentified if he doesnt already have it 10:26 <@Umby> it's a restricted class of spell for him, though 10:27 <@Umby> sure it'd help him learn what the spellbook is but I'd assume he also wants to cast it reliably, and doing so with a restricted school w/o even a robe to provide a partial boost feels like it defeats the purpose of the wish 10:27 <@Umby> (because even if they had a robe they'd have to ditch the cloak of MR temporarily 10:27 <@Umby> which, don't know how desirable that really is) 10:28 <@Umby> unfortunately healer is one of those classes I also haven't played in a while so 10:29 <@Umby> where did the amulet of reflection come from 10:29 <@Umby> sokoban? 10:29 hmm i thought they could reach at least skilled in that school 10:30 i never play healer just assumed they were like that 10:30 <@Umby> nah, they can only advance in healing spells 10:30 <@Umby> that's literally it 10:30 hi 10:30 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 10:31 L3 spells run at about 89% failure for a healer with Wi:18 at XL5 10:31 And the Pw is needed for Charm Mnoster. 10:31 yeah kinda annoying to hide in a closet wearing a robe and spamming the spell to id whatever items 10:32 Yeah, "oR from Sudokuban. And that was a challenge. 10:32 It's gotten a lot harder in 3.6.2 than 3.4.3 10:32 do you have any artifacts? and whats your alignment 10:32 <@Umby> Sokoban isn't much harder between versions imo 10:32 Also a wood nymph found a large /oCreateMonster 10:32 <@Umby> least not as far as the actual puzzle 10:33 <@Umby> if you mean the monster gen then that's a bit different 10:33 <@Umby> healers are default neutral, alex 10:33 the monster gen has a large impact on how hard the branch is overall 10:33 <@Umby> was also gonna say I feel like the monster gen hasn't changed that much between versions 10:33 Neutral healer. A few artifact weapons. Only sacrificed five or six times but I have Frosty and Vorpal. 10:33 <@Umby> or if it did I wouldn't have noticed 10:34 Funny how I never get those when I'm playing a melee hero. 10:34 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36 Umby: The difficulty is what's changed. Soko now generates higher-difficulty monsters as you climb higher in it, rather than easier. 10:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Bar Hum Mal Cha) wished for "blessed oilskin sack", on T:42639 10:36 are you running around with them yourself or did you give to your trolls? 10:36 they can use them right 10:36 <@Umby> right then 10:37 <@Umby> anyway if those are sac gifts that at least unrestricts them to basic 10:37 <@Umby> partly solves that 10:37 <@Umby> mind elaborating on your armor 10:38 I have them in a chest still. The Ts are recent acquisitions and I haven't been able to get back to the long swords in the stash yet. 10:38 ah 10:38 <@Umby> you mentioned the cloak of MR but little else 10:38 +2 dwarf hat +4 gloves +2 dwarf boots 10:38 he mentioned ac -7 10:39 <@Umby> he didn't say what he had on, though 10:39 sounds like theres nothing in that slot 10:39 PAcifist so far, but not really morally committed to it. 10:39 CAn't wear body armour or I can't cast spells. 10:39 <@Umby> right, the conduct is also important info 10:40 <@Umby> also, you can't wear METAL body armor 10:40 No dragons on screen yet. 10:40 tshirt and leather armor would be nice 10:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:10013 10:41 Oh, a cheap plastic imitation of the "oY 10:41 <@Umby> only metal/mithril stuff interferes with casting 10:41 <@Umby> rest is usu. fine 10:42 <@Umby> and most emergency spells are in healing school so your bonus for that can significantly reduce failue rate 10:42 https://i.imgur.com/973hqvT.png BUBBLEHACK LIVES 10:42 <@Umby> enough that you can wear stuff like, say, gauntlets of power 10:42 <{Demo}2> yeeeeee 10:42 <{Demo}2> bubbbbbhack 10:42 <@Umby> rather than being enough to go full metal 10:43 My room code is so basics 10:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Dragonbane bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:10325 10:44 https://i.imgur.com/RgS2Fn0.png 10:44 lul 10:44 Hmm also it should put doors in corners 10:44 <{Demo}2> i feel like someone that writes C++ coming from a java background would write C++ very different than someone coming from a C background 10:45 Wow. Glen Wichman's Ghost is L11? 10:45 yay procedural level generation 10:45 demo everyone writes c++ differently 10:45 <{Demo}2> yeah but i feel like it would be super prone to weird dialects 10:45 I used to write java but written c and c++ for the past 10 years at least \o> 10:45 <@Umby> I mean you are in the rogue level 10:45 Nah m8 c++17 all the way 10:45 <@Umby> which is a ways down 10:46 {Demo}2:The STL has gotten so weird and particular that I expect anyone taking C++ seriously is going to end up far from whatever background he started with these days. 10:47 i dunno how others feel but i prefer c over c++ 10:47 I used to alex___ but c++ has grown on me 10:47 what do you like about it bubbles_nh 10:48 i always feel like ive missed something but seems like theres a million different way of doing things and everyone is going their own way 10:48 I love being able to do stuff like this(pasteboard incoming) 10:48 https://qbin.io/tt-hung-kam3 10:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:10570 10:49 I'm sure tons of people hate that though 10:49 And tbh just having stuff like vector and unordered_map built in means the pretty icky stuff you see in a bunch of nethack code/variant code just isn't needed. 10:50 what does [&](auto c) do 10:50 is that some sort of passing a reference 10:50 <@Umby> On the note of updating, classes can train to Basic in the special spell now in 3.6.2, right? 10:50 mutating all over the place 10:50 <@Umby> Or am I off slightly 10:50 stennowork: It's a lambda. 10:50 oh ok 10:50 Yeah just an anoymous function 10:50 I am a bit lazy with auto 10:50 An anonymous function defined at the point of use. 10:50 I shouldn't be doing that 10:50 [&] is lambda indicator? 10:51 yeah i know about lambdas 10:51 [&] means capture by references everything in scope 10:51 I don't think that's required here. 10:51 just got a bit nervous because i associate it with references 10:51 It is! 10:51 ;_; 10:51 pls 10:51 references are the devil 10:51 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 10:51 They are just pointers with a hat on! 10:51 mutation is evil, even the imperator says so 10:52 but yeah stuff like the iteration is nice so you don't end up with for for(y){for(x){}} everywhere 10:52 how would the scoping work here? it would get `test` from the parent scope i assume? 10:52 <{Demo}2> i dont understand why they would put a hat on a pointer, why do we need that? pointers work fine, fuck of bjarne 10:52 const references ftw. 10:52 const reference is powerful 10:52 <@Umby> gonna repeat my question: classes can now advance their skill in their special spell to Basic, right? 10:52 that sounds a bit more pure than actual references 10:52 <@luxidream> y 10:53 <@Umby> I know the slots are open for barbs and samurai in 3.6.2 10:53 Sorry umby not sure 10:53 oh const ref is something like Symbols for ruby 10:53 <@Umby> but I'm not sure how far they advance 10:53 Classes can advance their spell skills the same as ever. 10:53 I don't think there's any special exception for special spells. 10:54 The other thing that I appreciate is "starting from scratch" means you get a whole bunch of stuff to work with, like I don't need to implement a uniform int distribution, or a geometric one, or a normal one. 10:54 <@Umby> Except that I don't recall sams having unrestricted access in divination previously 10:54 They are all just there! 10:54 In fact, special spells are largely pointless. What Caveman is casting Dig? 10:54 Some of them were buffed a while ago, as they used to be restricted in their special spell. 10:54 ME DIG 10:54 What Valk needs Cone of Cold? 10:54 ME CRUMP, SHAMAN OF TRIBE 10:54 One who needs to cross Medusa's lair/a moat 10:54 <@Umby> "one class's special spell is useless so all of them are" 10:54 <@Umby> also have you seen the Valk's quest level 10:54 I can name a few that are useful 10:55 valkyrie is not on that list lol 10:55 <@Umby> also, Arcs have magic mapping as their special spell 10:55 -!- b_jonas has joined #hardfought 10:55 <{Demo}2> knight 10:55 priest 10:55 wizard 10:55 <@Umby> that alone is an argument against them being useless 10:55 <@Umby> oh, one more 10:55 <@Umby> tourists with charm monster 10:56 b_jonas, o/ 10:56 My special spell is make booze 10:56 <@Umby> anyway, classes definitely weren't able to advance skills in the school of their special spell previously 10:56 Healer maybe 10:56 Samurai maybe 10:56 <@Umby> the whole reason I'm asking is because I have to update the escape spells page for 3.6.2 10:57 MMis good for a Knight after the quest. So XL15. Don't need that to cast MM. 10:57 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Arc Dwa Fem Neu) killed the Minion of Huhetotl, on T:26273 10:57 that's not a special spell for knights though 10:57 <@Umby> ^ 10:57 That should have been Wiz. See, they're so useless I mix 'em up. 10:57 Gives you better % chance to write the spellbook 10:57 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Arc Dwa Fem Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:26274 10:58 <@Umby> or maybe you just need to do more reasearch so you actually know what you're talking about 10:58 If you haven't got it yet 10:58 Or is that something else. 10:58 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:58 bubbles: no 10:58 <@Umby> no, special spells have reduced failure rates for that class 10:59 <@Umby> well for that spell specifically 10:59 Priest looks like the big winner. RC is especially good for them and they'd be able to cast it at a lower level if they can find a +. 10:59 <@Umby> but in the most recent version, each class can actually advance skills in the school of theier special spell 10:59 yes this is true 11:00 <@Umby> since there were previously cases where the school was restricted 11:00 <@Umby> and that's primarily what I was asking about 11:00 <@Umby> dunno where this nuclear take of "all special spells are useless lol" came from 11:00 <@Umby> specifically I wanted to know if Basic was the maximum for accuracy's sake 11:01 Being able to cast magic missile with less than 10% fail chance while wearing mythril armour is great too though. 11:01 There appear to be three changes in spell skills form 3.4.3 to 3.6.2 11:02 Bar goes from S in attack only to b in both attack and escape. 11:02 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 19175 points, T:11962, killed by a warhorse 11:02 <{Demo}2> C++ has too much voodoo 11:02 {Demo}2: true fact, you have to all buy into it 11:02 Monk loses S in escape, noww only B. 11:03 And Samurai loses S in clerical and gains B in divination. 11:04 <@Umby> also all the articles on schools of spells seem to have two tables of the same stuff for whatever reason 11:04 oh boy, trollsbane 11:05 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:05 yeah just axe that 11:05 it's really pointless imo 11:07 <@Umby> axe what now 11:08 axe the second table 11:08 <@Umby> Oh 11:08 arc|basic, bar|restricted, cav|restricted, hea|skilled etc 11:09 actually they don't show restricted. Doesn't matter. Redundant table. 11:11 <@Umby> "This page was generated using NetHackWiki:Skill table generator. Instead of editing this page, edit that program, and re-generate this page." 11:11 <@Umby> zzzz 11:11 <@Umby> tedium 11:11 be a rebel. ignore that 11:12 Umby: Keep *that* table 11:12 delete the second one 11:12 <@Umby> I am keeping it 11:12 <@Umby> but I also have to update it to reflect 3.6.2 11:12 oh right 11:13 [hdf-us] [gh] karibou (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 433 points, T:1021, killed by a kobold werejackal 11:13 <@Umby> which is dumb because I was hoping to make this a quick thing and messing with complex coding wasn't on my schedule 11:14 If I am human and lawful it is ok to sacrifice an elf corpse, right? 11:14 yes 11:14 <@Umby> as long as it's not same-race you're fine 11:14 <@Umby> human =/= elf 11:14 <@Umby> they just share a glyph sorta 11:14 Thanks, I always seem to forget whether elves count as same-race to humans (what with the @ and all) 11:15 <@Umby> figured as much :B 11:15 sacrifice them all, let rodney sort em out 11:16 hmm... wouldn't it be nice if elves had their own glyph to distinguish them... 11:16 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:16 EAT THEM 11:17 <@Umby> dunno why we can't just make edits to the template like a normal wiki 11:17 <@Umby> ugh 11:17 Well, if you like seeing green quantum mechanics, sure 11:17 oh my god, I just got confused about which container I was using and blew up two bags of holding 11:18 there is no reason to carry around 2 bags of holding 11:18 I was trying to put the extra one in my stash 11:18 <@Umby> I keep all my spare BoH in a secondary sack if I can help it 11:18 but out of muscle memory I apparently had applied my main BoH instead of (l)ooting the box on the floor 11:18 <@Umby> if I lose track while dealing with one I always esc out and restart 11:19 [hdf-us] [nh4] nyxilia (hackedhead) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 22017 points, T:567, killed by a dagger 11:19 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:19 carelessness. Think I need a break now haha 11:19 F hekik 11:19 Muscle memory kills me too 11:19 When I pick it up after altar checking and it goes to a different letter 11:19 's' is for bag! 11:19 'd' is for key, 'x' is for whistle, 'f' is for unihorn, 'M' is for lamp 11:20 Trying to remember my other ones :ponder: 11:20 everyone has a different system 11:20 'f' is always my bag 11:20 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 11:20 w is for bag. s for unihorn, y for key (prevents a lot of trouble there), m for stethoscope 11:20 because it ends up being the default for the sack as a Rogue 11:20 w for bag, e for key, c for stethoscope, s for unicorn horn, E for lamp, f for horn 11:20 luxidream: quantum mechanic could be U 11:20 I for lamp. 11:20 for "strange things" 11:21 @Umby I'm going to raise the template convolutedness in the wiki channel, see what others think 11:21 same with mind flayers 11:21 <@Umby> Please do 11:21 <@Umby> I'm gonna undo my edit in the meantime and go with what I was doing initially 11:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] Xaleth (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7775 11:21 <@Umby> also aosdict point me towards that channel 11:22 <@Umby> would like to keep updated 11:22 <@Umby> just in general 11:22 I get a fright when I see Elvenkings and Dwarf Kings. Seems like they should be ordinary monarchs of various races, but something about them just scares the poo out of me. 11:23 aosdict: for displaying skill history where it matters (3.4.3-derivatives), perhaps have a 1/2/3/etc with 1: was Basic in 3.4.3 11:23 given how little has changed, this would work well enough 11:23 <@Umby> mostly their damage output more than anything 11:23 Ah yeach 'c' for stethoscope you're right 11:23 @Umby: You'd have to be on IRC. 11:23 I always map stethoscope to s 11:24 c is trice 11:24 <@Umby> doable 11:24 channel is #nethackwiki 11:24 I kinda wish there was a setting to lock things to letters 11:24 a is main weapon, b secondary 11:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] Xaleth (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a silver dragon, on T:8061 11:24 -!- Porkmantwo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:24 k is unlocking tool, t is blindtool 11:24 ^ 11:24 ^^^ 11:24 <@Umby> I just prefer discord because convenience and whatnot 11:24 l is lamp, h is unihorn, g is touchstone, G is grease, L is leash 11:25 e is light source, g is unicorn horn, l is unlocking tool, r is bag of holding 11:25 Whenever I pick up '\bkey\b' auto-adjust it to k if no matching item is already in that slot 11:25 w is (magic) whistle 11:25 B is BoH 11:25 j is whistle 11:25 <@Umby> and suddenly I can't get in, what the hell 11:25 actually b is bag for me, not secondary weapon 11:25 I could swear something was wrong with it lol 11:25 * aosdict likes r for boh because then can type key combinations like 'aria' 11:26 <@Umby> just does the circle thing and then back to the name screen 11:26 <@Umby> what gives 11:26 Then you pick up a wand of death and 'a' it 11:26 \o/ 11:26 e is eota, o is orb, c is (along with trice) PYEC -- I should probably map trice to C, safer 11:26 When it goes in your bag slot 11:26 s is stethoscope as mentioned, T is tinning kit 11:26 and I think that's my usual bindings 11:26 true pain -> start new character, spend several keypresses reorganizing starting inv to fixed letters -> die in room 2 11:26 hackedhead: haha 11:26 hackedhead: amen! 11:27 aosdict: abi/abo is very typical keypresses for me latergame :P 11:27 for bag management 11:28 "abib\n,\n" is probably one of my most used key series with a biag 11:28 *bag 11:28 to put in gold 11:29 <@Umby> ugh, fuck it 11:29 <@Umby> browser ain't working, gonna have to use my IRC thing 11:29 , always catches gold no matter what the variant decides to map it to 11:31 asib.\n 11:31 No, there's an extra \n in there isn't there 11:31 Is , the same as . ? 11:31 no 11:31 bt in this case it is 11:32 one of them selects a single page 11:32 the other selects everything 11:32 I forgot which one did which since it's rarely relevant 11:32 *but 11:32 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 11:32 -!- ichbinmiah has joined #hardfought 11:33 dunno why I can't join via kiwi 11:33 suppose I have to register an account 11:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 678 points, T:2081, killed by a dwarf 11:37 bubbles_nh: and yeah, I'm a god 11:37 good to see you finally realized it ;) 11:38 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:27461 11:39 <{Demo}2> i put my bag on N 11:39 <{Demo}2> so it is harder for me to blow up on accident 11:39 <{Demo}2> cause it is harder to use 11:42 {Demo}logic 11:44 wand of cancellation goes on Q 11:44 because that's the hardest button to misinput 11:44 i think capital Z is harder still 11:45 and Q is convenient for missiles (QQ for quivering) 11:45 <@Umby> appears my temperamental network makes IRC cry 11:46 aklys goes on t 11:46 for tt 11:46 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:48 i put wand of cancellation on 'a' because i like to live on the edge 11:48 c corpses on 'e' for the yolo 11:48 <@Umby> welp, IRC client and hardfought just seem to want to fight 11:49 <@Umby> can connect to alt.org just fine though 11:49 use the web irc 11:49 you are on a chromebook right? 11:49 oh web irc on hardfought web page is borked 11:49 i need to replace it 11:49 kiwi got stupid 11:49 <@Umby> that was already not working 11:50 <@Umby> and I'm glad it wasn't just me 11:50 <@Umby> but the IRC client app I used instead had the connection explode after a few minutes 11:50 <@Umby> can't reconnect to it on that, but can still get to alt.org's chat 11:53 what client do you use? 11:53 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 11:53 WOOO got into next stage at amazon interview \o> 11:53 eyy 11:53 what kind of job? 11:54 Prime video, programming, not entirely sure of the specifics 11:54 what programming language? 11:54 neat! GL! 11:54 The big companies don't put that much detail I guess 11:54 hmm 11:54 Probably C++ 11:54 oof 11:54 well, congrats :D 11:54 Thanks! :) 11:54 i assume amazon treats their hacker better than their packing station people 11:55 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:55 <{Demo}2> what is good C supposed to look like? 11:56 not yellow and lowercase 11:56 stennowork: I've heard the hypercompetitive culture persists among the programming/IT part of amazon, but that's hearsay 11:57 Oh, how about that it works 11:57 blp 11:57 guess I just have to put up with it being super tempermental? 11:57 also it's CIRC 11:58 My brother in law worked there in Canada and it was OK. I think it depends on the team/boss etc. 11:58 We'll see 11:58 yes, do not worry about it 11:58 i shouldn't have brought it up in the first place, sorry 11:59 @luxidream bohsplosions, when they've happened for me, is always a result of me putting in all wands 11:59 so where I decide to actually put my cancelwand in inventory matters little 11:59 for this reason, I've ended up using an approach to cancelwands that boils down to "I don't need them, make them go away" and don't use them at all 12:00 <{Demo}2> same 12:00 but rather, once I have identified cancel, immediately throw them into a wall if made of glass, or zap until out of charges otherwise and put somewhere I wont visit again 12:00 Luxidream the Student of Waters zaps a glass wand! The death ray whizzes by you! 12:01 handle them as if they're radioactive 12:01 you brastad! 12:01 <@luxidream> that monk is really weak 12:01 <@luxidream> get him 12:01 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 12:01 i'm a monk wearing armour. this isn't easy 12:01 YASI: student of x monks exercise Wisdom by performing tasks pertaining to their current element of study 12:01 you're gonna use up my wand 12:02 <@luxidream> coincidentally he is also a monk wearing armor 12:02 I usually just ID cancel ASAP and make a note not to lazily smash all wands into my bag 12:02 so a student of water monk exercise wisdom by taking baths 12:02 <@luxidream> he failed the fight with luxidream the samurai 12:02 a student of stones one exercise it by interacting with boulders 12:02 <@luxidream> because I couldn't hit through his -30 ac 12:02 or keep cancel wands in a separate bag of non-holding 12:02 Umbire_: my approach was a result of a bohsplosion 12:03 before that, I used your approach 12:03 :P 12:03 <@luxidream> they're too useful to not carry around 12:03 <@luxidream> so I put it on Q and hope for the best 12:03 <@luxidream> my last accident was on June 1 this year 12:03 at least NH4+derivatives cancel the wand instead of the bag 12:03 <@luxidream> so I'm doing good 12:03 my last accident was in 2016 12:03 so I'm doing really good 12:04 my first and last 12:04 it was in dnethack 12:04 -!- stennowork has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:04 I "recovered" (iirc it was the game that died to garnet rod on astral) 12:04 <@luxidream> why isn't luxidream the student of waters using his +7 snickersnee 12:04 I don't even carry /oC anymore. Once was enough. 12:04 BEHiker91W: same 12:04 what's luxidream the student of waters using instead of snickersnee? 12:04 unless I play NH4/4k/fh/7dyna 12:05 aosdict: probably a rusty dagger or something 12:05 weapon preferences are really weird 12:05 anyway 12:05 monks are neutral, right? 12:05 player monster monks that is 12:05 Oh, also, if this is TNNT, artifacts don't carry over. 12:05 it would just be a +7 katana 12:05 they will not use crossaligned artifacts 12:05 @v?monk 12:05 monk (@) | Lvl: 10 | Diff: 11 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 2 | Generates: special | AC: 10 | Attacks: 1d8 claw physical, 1d8 kick physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: herbivore, nopoly, infravisible 12:05 yeah, neutral 12:06 so even if it didn't carry over 12:06 he wouldn't use Snickersnee 12:06 since it's lawful 12:06 but... it doesn't carry over. it's no longer snickersnee 12:06 aosdict: Snickersnee should have a vorpal attack 12:06 the weapon goes snicker-snack 12:07 <@luxidream> don't blow up the wand of death lol 12:07 <@luxidream> too late 12:07 what happened? 12:07 <@luxidream> hothraxxa is fighting myself in the arena 12:08 I love arena fights 12:08 ADOM has an arena 12:08 this one looks nothing like it 12:08 heh 12:08 I got cthulu to fight chtulu yesterday 12:08 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:08 how many fucking full healings do you have? 12:08 one day I will spell things good 12:08 hothraxxa: what are your reasoning for your attribute colorization? 12:09 Although obviously I forgot to blind myself to my tame cthulu :( 12:09 omg I wonder if he is mountable... 12:09 <@luxidream> good question 12:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Inc Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1701 12:09 bubbles_nh: I think cthulhu isn't meant to have a canoncial spelling 12:09 i copied them from soneone 12:09 <@luxidream> 3 12:09 someone 12:09 you can't grasp the true form of his spelling etc 12:09 Mmm let's go with that! 12:10 I'm pretty sure that binder spirit is really abusable 12:10 hothraxxa: looks like wiki to me 12:10 and they're not well defined 12:10 notably, what happens between 5 and 6 12:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Kni Inc Fem Law), 2695 points, T:1926, killed by a gnome lord 12:10 not sure i understand 12:10 hothraxxa: one sec 12:10 i'm busy right now ;) 12:10 OPTIONS=hilite_status:characteristics/<5/red 12:11 OPTIONS=hilite_status:characteristics/>6/orange 12:11 what happens when it is neither <5 or >6 12:11 ah. those 12:11 also I find the order of these pelicular 12:11 well i just killed this sumbitch. let me pick through his bones 12:11 it should be handled the same as autopickup exceptions IMO 12:11 where earlier definitions trump later ones 12:12 <@luxidream> https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/tnnt/dumplog/1571687305.tnnt.html 12:12 atm you have ">6 is orange, >8 is brown" 12:12 but >8 is also >6... 12:12 fiq: i never really paid much attention, i just copied them and got used to them 12:12 <@luxidream> wait you get the full inventory of the ascended player? 12:12 it clearly works, seeing as your screen does the proper colors 12:12 Note to TNNT players: we're working on a system where you only get one item of your choice from the deathmatch opponent 12:12 but it looks weird to me 12:13 Note to TNNT players: this is very very difficult to program right without leaving in any loopholes 12:13 oh wait, you mean i can pick up everything? 12:13 hothraxxa: Well, you can *now* 12:13 aosdict: should the object be fully IDed? 12:13 Not in actual YNNY 12:13 w00t! 12:13 TNNT 12:13 FIQ: no 12:13 I mean when you choose 12:13 yeah i knew that 12:13 well this is a prize then 12:14 FIQ: if you're picking through any other monster's pile of loot, it doesn't come ided 12:14 aosdict: I assume containers isn't a valid choice 12:14 I mean, once implemented 12:14 container contents don't carry over so if they have a boh it's just a boh 12:15 aosdict: oh I thought you wanted to have it something like, you choose among list of all items fully IDed that you get to keep 12:15 and the rest would be discarded 12:15 the alternative -- vanishing everything once you pickup an item has so many entry points for exploits that you have to deal with 12:15 I mean, this is NetHack 12:15 :P 12:16 hm 12:16 since the items aren't in the swap chest it would be tough to fully id the items without being able to exploit that for free ID somehow 12:16 <@luxidream> vanish everything 12:16 <@luxidream> make a second swap chest with the inventory inside 12:17 <@luxidream> if you block theft there shouldn't be a way to exploit this 12:17 also 12:17 once the player is killed 12:17 the game should emulate bones creation, from the player's POV 12:17 I don't *want* to block theft, but that has led to some other convoluted exploit blocks 12:17 make a grave describing the way it was killed 12:17 curse 80% of items 12:17 maybe make a ghost 12:18 <@luxidream> if you don't block theft, how do you prevent the player from getting everything 12:18 FIQ: You are severely overestimating my free time 12:18 aosdict: sorry 12:18 I thought everyone had 240h free per day 12:19 luxidream: Best I've got so far is if you have the opponent's possessions in your inventory when they die, they either teleport to the pile of loot they drop, or poof out of existence when you pick up another of their possessions 12:20 (and yes this includes if you hid them inside containers) 12:20 <@luxidream> so I steal all of it and polypile it 12:20 or just never kill him 12:20 <@luxidream> is the flag still there? 12:21 yes 12:21 aosdict: I assume you're aware of the fact that NH3 doesn't really deal with off-level stuff all that well, right? 12:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Bar Inc Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2111 12:22 yes, in the final version you won't be able to bring pets into the arena either, and if you flee the challenge you lose anything owned by the NPC 12:22 figurines 12:22 not "bring pets". the portal only works for you 12:22 create familiar 12:22 create monster + charm monster 12:22 the portal only works for you 12:22 taming 12:23 the portal only works for you 12:23 polyself + steal from them 12:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed the invisible Oona, on T:28021 12:23 actually that's redundant with stealing from the owner 12:23 sorry 12:23 branchport 12:23 I agreed to the proposal of pick one item from their stuff without realizing how exploitable it is by default at the time 12:24 I would still much rather have this than try to come up with another artifact as reward 12:24 the simple solution here 12:24 is to just not allow stealing 12:24 and immediately upon the monster's death, force the player to pick an item 12:24 and discard the rest 12:25 I don't want to remove the player's ability to steal things as a tactic, ideally. 12:25 <@luxidream> items vanish when you steal them? 12:26 Hello Michael Worcester, 12:26 We reviewed the resume you sent for our Software Development Engineer (ID: 724835) position in London, GBR , and are excited to speak with you! 12:26 <@luxidream> oh hothraxxa you blew up the wand of wishing 12:26 Interesting 12:26 rip wand 12:26 Nice copy paste 12:26 yeah i know 12:26 bubbles_nh: heh 12:26 (Y) 12:27 at first I misread GBR as GERM 12:27 *GER 12:27 and was wondering where in germany london is 12:27 The German state of England! 12:27 Windows console paste on right click 12:27 :-\ 12:28 yeah that is evil 12:28 way too easy to paste by mistake 12:28 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 12:28 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28 <@luxidream> also, what happened to tnnt bonus content not affecting vanilla difficulty much 12:28 What is a tnnt? 12:29 Teenage Nutant ninja Turtles? 12:29 @luxidream I appear to be on the losing side of this debate 12:29 Teenage Nethack Ninja turtles? 12:29 team nethack november tournament 12:29 bubbles_nh: That's my clan! 12:29 Good morning guys, I ran into Grouchy in a facebook group for nethack fans, and he recently shared that he is stuck in EH. Do you guys have any advice for him about getting out of this tricky situation? 12:29 I was close! 12:29 Want in? 12:29 EH? 12:29 evilhack 12:29 If you think I'm not a liability sure! 12:29 "well.... now I'm kind of stuck.... got the amulet, got back to my stash at the altar on level 6, stocking up on gold detection, refreshreshing spells etc... and along comes an archon when I have no armor on (re-enchanting) - and a turn later a billion other critters... including basilisks and cockatrice.... costs me an amulet of life saving and 12:29 digging down a level to escape and coming back up - then I'm hearing the (cockatrice wielding) archon unlocking the chest that holds all my stuff, and rummaging through it. Trying to decide if it's even worth going back in there, or trying to push on without it. Damn." 12:29 hmm 12:29 someone needs to do a nethack variant that can short to just H 12:30 tnnt scoring is designed so you can't hurt your team 12:30 I advised to go to another level and let the cockatrice corpse rot away for starters 12:30 so we have healing/variant, extra healing/evilhack, full healing/fiqhack 12:30 oh wow that sucks 12:30 Ah cool in which case yeah! 12:30 he is close to the planes 12:30 Hubblehack 12:30 It's "out there" 12:30 bubbles_nh: invited 12:31 those are going to be some sick bones with a cockatrice wielding archon to defeat for them 12:31 there used to be a fun 4k bug 12:31 where dlvl20-29 bones was loaded as if they were created on dlvl 2 12:31 :3 12:31 <@luxidream> find a way to hit the archon with a cockatrice egg or corpse, should work unless you had a cockatrice corpse in that box 12:32 c corpses don't instastone monsters in eh though 12:32 <@luxidream> at least it dies 12:32 they dont? oh man 12:32 and some monsters (like demogorgon) can cast stone to flesh 12:32 <@luxidream> it takes a few turns 12:32 see I'm asking for a frined here, but I'll learn a lot too 12:32 Will that show up when I login? 12:32 can archons do this 12:32 bubbles_nh: in dgamelaunch? no 12:32 <@luxidream> who knows? I don't know what spellcasting system K2 stole for eh 12:33 I know nothing! 12:33 grunthack's 12:33 still that's a decent idea 12:33 i don't know about archons specifically, but he told me monsters will cast stf on themselves if you c corpse them 12:33 except he doesn't have combined spells enabled 12:33 if he can stone it and teleport away, that could work 12:33 so they still mostly cast monster-only spells 12:34 especially if he waits and lets the cockatrice corpse the Archon has rot away 12:34 high level spellcasting monsters can cast stone to flesh on themselves yes 12:34 Archons know that spell? 12:34 <@luxidream> they have random spells I think 12:34 probably 12:34 they are high enough level 12:35 right and they have the shield of reflection, so no finger of death / death wand 12:35 summon the purple worm 12:35 If there wasn't a hoard of nasties, I would say teleport in, grab loot and teleport out 12:35 or a dragon 12:35 Grouchy has had a few pet dragons and I think they've all been killed 12:36 <@Umby> brb 12:36 just checked 12:36 they don't actually have the spell per se 12:36 right 12:37 i didnt port over gruntahcks 'monsters can cast player spells' code 12:37 however, K2 seems ot have borrowed grunt's s->f logic 12:37 specifically 12:37 s to f and cancellation 12:37 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 12:37 evil 12:37 meaning they use it kinda like how fh monsters cast spells 12:37 i.e. very much deliberately and intentionally 12:37 yeah could you imagine finding Grouchy's bones on lvl 6 12:37 no randomness 12:37 antivirus: good luck with the archon though 12:38 I'll just name sting, so it's a double bone 12:38 it is possible to stone a monster that can cast s to f on itself, but it can take awhile 12:38 catch it in between spell timeout 12:38 but K2 12:38 monsters cast it for free 12:38 he might not have a method of stoning 12:39 <{Demo}2> good interface screw idea, swap u,y and b,n 12:39 yup 12:39 <{Demo}2> so if u try to move diagonal ur like what 12:39 I'd be tempted to lure monsters away from the stash, teleport in and snatch whatever you can. 12:39 provided the rubber chicken situation has been resolved.. 12:39 K2: why does monsters cast it for free? 12:40 it's inconsistent 12:40 i've wondered the same thing 12:42 curious what items he has on him, and what he needs from his stash 12:43 if one of the items is wishing 12:43 rip 12:43 i try to leave stuff i need for the endgame in a stash on DL1, partly to avoid something like this. 12:43 yeah I asked about that & invited him to hop on #hardfought 12:43 sucks though. Really sounds like something that would happen to me 12:44 is there some need to re-enchant gear in EH? 12:44 I noticed some of my stuff is no longer enchanted 12:44 monsters can cancel you 12:44 also disenchanters, but thats vanilla 12:44 yeah that must have been it. It was after clearing Ludios 12:44 many many wands there 12:45 some monsters can cast it, but yeah wands too 12:45 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3685 12:45 i was getting up the nerve to make my run too.. lol 12:45 but that is when you are most likely to run into archons... they don't spawn in gehennom 12:46 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:46 vlad's too sometimes 12:46 where? in the early dungeon? 12:46 when you're high level 12:46 right 12:46 and when you have the amulet your dungeon level is whatever the VS is 12:46 aosdict: hmmm 12:47 what if you made covetous-warp only able to warp you to the item you covet, or as close as possible? 12:47 so it's spawning as if he's on lvl 54 or whatever 12:47 not to stairs 12:47 FIQ: That would mean that covetous warpers still behave much as they do now, no? Everything covets the Amulet. 12:47 no 12:47 FIQ: monsters spellcast for free in evilhack because they do in vanilla 12:47 it means monsters can't warp to < willy-nilly 12:47 K2: they do not 12:47 its that simple 12:48 eh? 12:48 they have a spellcast timeout 12:48 they also do in evilhack 12:48 casting spells increase mspec_used 12:48 its just not as great 12:48 K2: not stone to flesh 12:48 ooh really 12:48 stone to flesh doesn't do *anything* 12:48 OMFG 12:48 in terms of spell cost 12:48 this is me right now - https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2516/source 12:48 aosdict: the idea is 12:49 make it possible to have demons and such remain dangerous 12:49 ok so... hmm 12:49 by being able to pursue you 12:49 due to coveting the amulet 12:49 i didnt realize that 12:49 thanks FIQ 12:49 but don't make it a huge chore to fight them due to <-troll 12:49 K2: You've put on some weight since Dublin 12:49 hahah 12:49 lol 12:49 FIQ: So what does AI do when they decide to retreat due to low HP? 12:49 by using the very advanced technique of walking 12:50 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 2680 points, T:3818, killed by a wooden crossbow bolt 12:50 also no reason to not allow them to displace other hostile monsters 12:50 to avoid them getting in the way 12:51 in fact that's something I've considered in general 12:51 allow higher-level monsters to displace lower-level ones 12:51 if both are hostile 12:51 and not grudging each other 12:52 K2: there might be a reason 12:52 consider this: 12:52 monster casts stone to flesh 12:52 riders do that and i think croessus does now in eh 12:52 player responds by immediately whacking them again 12:52 rebatela: but they can displace pets too iirc 12:53 which is simply just not fair 12:53 and also weird 12:53 well the acid blob thing you could do in 3.4 wasn't really fair either 12:53 I suppose 12:54 but hostile monsters shouldn't be able to displace tame monsters 12:54 it's dumb 12:54 rebatela: in several variants, monsters have no qualms about hurting lower-level ones 12:54 why is that not fair FIQ? 12:54 if a monster whacks me with a rubber chicken, i cast stone to flesh on myself 12:54 its going to whack me again with it 12:54 K2: something being unfair was @ rebatela 12:55 oh 12:55 250 turns for a rubber chicken to rot away sounds short 12:55 is that really enough time? 12:55 sounds right 12:55 i've never really counted 12:56 it's 250 12:57 thx 12:57 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 12:58 K2: is there a particular reason splicehack got to be a featured article for less than a day until you replaced it with your own variant on the wiki? 12:58 this game i kept my stash under a bolder instead of in a chest... taking my chance with a giant coming along of course. but at least i'll never read that rummaging message 12:58 is this how EH managed to be as popular as it is I wonder 12:58 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 12:59 i like it specifically because it's hard (and fun) 12:59 poor AntiGulp 12:59 got shafted 13:00 no exposure for his variant 13:00 yeah I'm doing the same as you rebatela, just a boulder in Soko 13:00 you think she got shafted? what about all those suckers playing evilhack? 13:00 AntiGulp's not "his" IIRC 13:00 antivirus: if you learn wizlock (or have locking wands), a safe works pretty well too 13:01 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 13:01 ooh I see how it works now 13:01 although a boulder over the safe is probably better, and try not to stand on your stash ever if there are monsters around with wands 13:01 one article per month 13:01 sorry 13:01 and I thought it was weird that grunthack was there for like 7 years 13:01 lol 13:02 Also, put the stash on (eg) Soko:1 or somewhere else you won't go except to use the stash 13:02 mine's end 13:02 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:02 sounds good to me 13:02 * hothraxxa starts moving his stash 13:03 More of a pain to get to especially if you can levelport/branchport 13:04 whut? 13:04 * hothraxxa stops moving his stash 13:04 Mine's End is a lot further from the Dungeons of Doom than Sokoban:1 13:04 dude 13:04 you really took that seriously? 13:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:29938 13:05 FIQ: no one bumped splicehack 13:05 its on a completely different month 13:05 The beauty starts to gently pull down your pants with her soft, fleecy hands... 13:05 I don't like it 13:05 i actually went to ADD splcehack for october and then aosdict pointed out its already the featured variant for april 13:05 so nyah 13:06 hothraxxa: I've seen much worse ideas proposed entirely seriously, so... 13:06 :P~ 13:06 K2: me pointing fingers was meant as a joke, but the question was legitimate 13:06 yup 13:06 didn't realize that there was an article per month at first 13:07 and it looked as if grunthack had been featured for several years 13:07 then splice got an one-day special 13:07 followed by being replaced right away with evil 13:07 yeah it had october for a good long stretch 13:07 :P 13:07 7 yrs or something 13:07 since 20120 13:07 *2012 13:08 -!- luxidream has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 13:08 rebatela AntiVirus a safe is good to use, crystal chest even better 13:08 apparently ace had november for quite a while too 13:09 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 13:09 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 13:09 perhaps there ought to be a variant per month, +3 for junethack, tnnt and the latest version 13:09 requires little maintenance that way 13:09 so FIQ, i'll look later at how to fix monster StoF spell so it uses spell timeout 13:09 if i cant figure it i am going to pester you :) 13:09 yeah i've been keeping my eyes open for a crystal chest ! 13:09 Heh 13:09 <@luxidream> evilhack is popular because of the name 13:09 Well, there are other things about nethack to feature besides variants. 13:09 @luxidream Heh 13:09 Should've taken the name first :P 13:09 !tell LarienTelrunya Could you elaborate on your issues with the balance of SpliceHack’s latest additions (Baphomet nonwithstanding, because I agree)? I value your feedback. 13:09 Will do, AntiGulp! 13:10 maybe instead of featured article of the month it should be 'of the week' 13:10 aosdict: Sure, but it's harder to figure out :P 13:10 and have the site just pick a page at random 13:10 polearm article 13:10 comes to mind 13:10 oooh eggs. i like eggs 13:10 esp pit fiend eggs 13:10 <@luxidream> the earth mage is the quest nemesis of the slashem fire mage. he is uninteresting. 13:11 <@luxidream> >featured article 13:11 should be the water mage 13:11 <@luxidream> w/e 13:11 <@luxidream> he's the same anyway 13:11 since fire is weak to water 13:11 [backscroll] My super outdated wiki page for my trash fire variant got featured? oh god 13:12 AntiGulp: it did 13:12 AntiGulp: it's been featured for a while 13:12 FIQ: tell that to my grease fire demon 13:12 since I redid the featured articles last year 13:12 it also managed the unbelieveable accomplishment of being featured *twice* 13:12 what 13:12 because K2 was silly apparently 13:12 welp that’s embarrassing 13:13 hey, more exposure to your variant can't be a bad thing 13:13 unless it makes it look bad 13:13 ^ 13:13 *mutters about monster genocide* 13:13 just playtest the new stuff you add ;) 13:13 then you don't have problems like the cartomancer quest having 30 fountains 13:13 and no doors 13:13 30 fountains! 13:13 neat 13:14 luxidream: Yeah, I’m a lot better about playtesting now… 13:14 usually my variant's bugs have a habit of screwing players over 13:14 rather than the other way around 13:14 antigulp put fountains instead of water on the home level 13:14 such as monsters having obscenely large HP pools 13:14 or them genociding you 13:14 or being pissed for stinking clouds another monster used 13:14 FIQ: The “monsters genociding you” thing has to be one of my favorite bugs ever 13:15 AntiGulp: LarienTelrunya kept complaining about that bug for like 13:15 2 years 13:15 YASI: Multiple adjacent { glyphs represent one bigger fountain. When it disappears, so do all the connected { 13:15 I still ascended with the hp bug :P 13:15 it was fixed mere minutes after I was made aware of it 13:15 not that it stopped her 13:15 it was just unplayable without finger of death 13:15 luxidream: sorry 13:15 I thought you liked all monsters having basically 25con 13:15 :P 13:16 yeah I ignored all the 250 hp demons in hell 13:16 lol 13:16 they have 12 con now 13:16 There was a bug in splice that I thankfully caught before anyone else where the quest leaders of infernals were automatically hostile, and upon approaching them you would be booted out and automatically lose the game. Source: Me during my first Junenethack 13:16 over the 11con cutoff which interacts weirdly with hp regen 13:16 but not beyond that 13:16 It's weird that the dnh demons have about 1500 health and then the riders are still made out of paper 13:16 Kinda anticlimactic 13:17 well the riders have aoe attacks in dnh 13:17 I remember my first dnh astral 13:17 famine does I think? and pestilence has filth arrows 13:17 I don't remember what death does 13:17 death besides (due to stupidity on a guranteed win), it was so broken 13:17 I could basically teleport to the portals 13:17 bubbles_nh: anticlimactic...gulp? 13:17 ignoring noteleport 13:17 old dantalion was fun 13:18 aosdict ;D 13:18 there was no restrictions whatsoever 13:18 Should multi-tile monsters/entities be a thing? 13:18 long worm 13:18 ~> 13:18 good luck implementing it 13:18 ^ 13:18 I meant more like 2x2 or 3x3 entities 13:18 I’m fairly sure the game would snap in two 13:18 long cat for nethack 13:18 Long worm is boring gameplay wise 13:18 good luck! 13:18 f~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 13:18 also what about corridors 13:19 They wouldn't fit down corridors 13:19 POWDER has 2x2 monsters and had many hilarious bugs as a result. 13:19 Same as big monsters not fitting diagonally 13:19 i ran into a couple giant caterpillars in this EH game deep in gehennom 13:19 only much harder to implement 13:19 how do you handle beams 13:19 do they hit the monster twice 13:19 Nah that's just raytracing 13:19 ... they're 3 bosses and their levels are generally arranged so you can't sit in an alcove and tickle them to death with ranged attacks 13:20 Surely questions re beams have already been answered for long worms 13:20 bubbles_nh: The code is very strictly designed around the “one monster per tile” rule. It would be cool to see otherwise, but I don’t even want to think about how one would set about implementing it. 13:20 I'm wondering if it would actually make anything fun gameplay wise possible 13:20 giant 3x3 dwarf that digs out 9 tiles at a time 13:20 Pinkbeast: I do believe it hits multiple times 13:20 giant dwarf 13:20 a giant small monster 13:20 Mine carts... 13:21 wouldn't that just be a human 13:21 "giant dwarf" 13:21 FIQ: no, humans aren't 3x3 13:21 Scale in nethack is pretty broken 13:21 You can have one giant dragon hitting you 13:21 Or one tiny Gnome 13:21 but two Gnomes can't fit on one square that one dragon can??? 13:22 that's not really a nethack problem 13:22 killer bee takes up same space as dragon 13:22 but simply how roguelikes in general do it 13:22 For me nethack == roguelike! 13:22 it's not exactly nethack-specific 13:22 bubbles_nh: I've considered making very large monsters unable to pass onto doorways and corridor tiles 13:22 I still like how quickly pets can eat things. 40 foot tall monster? Yeah, a puppy can eat that no problem. 13:22 aosdict: interesting, could you stand in a corridor and ranged them though? 13:22 Monsters are inflated; dragons are more massive but not larger. Of course this is why any number of deflated corpses stack on a square. 13:22 well, you can also eat that 13:22 NetHack4 is even better 13:22 bubbles_nh: With current AI yes. 13:22 in NetHack4, pets eat everything in a single turn 13:23 Gotcha, I guess lore it up as "ranged immune" or something 13:23 I addressed tis in fh, but made pets have satiation to compensate 13:23 Though then overly harsh on rangers/wizards 13:23 they stopped eating when full 13:23 In dnh they seem to as well 13:23 I'm trying to think of exceptions - NetHack riding, EH Riders, DCSS spriggan riders... 13:24 dcss spriggan riders don't count 13:24 aosdict: I think it's more for entities rather than monsters I'm thinking of 13:24 EH Riders were stolen from Splice as well 13:24 spriggan riders? 13:24 don't they just spawn a hornet/spriggan 13:24 e.g. movable platforms 13:24 dcss has riding? 13:24 since when? 13:24 FIQ: enemy 13:24 not player 13:24 oh 13:24 ok 13:24 it's a spriggan riding a horney 13:24 ...since hwen? 13:24 hornet 13:24 *when 13:24 cool 13:24 so they both attack you? 13:25 No. The implementation is as luxi says a single monster that can spawn a spriggan or hornet on death, but from the point of view of the player it's a spriggan riding a hornet. 13:25 ah 13:25 boring 13:25 I don't think spriggan rider even has a poison paralysis attack 13:25 No - the spriggan has a reach weapon, so the hornet couldn't ordinarily reach you anyway, but it lets the spriggan fly. 13:25 but the horney does 13:25 hornet* 13:26 And they certainly _could_ have the hornet's attack. 13:26 Pinkbeast: but what if you go into melee 13:26 spriggan rider (i) | Spd: 10 (move: 60%) | HD: 11 | HP: 49-72 | AC/EV: 1/18 | Dam: 27 | weapons, items, doors, fighter, see invisible, fly | Res: magic(100) | Vul: poison | XP: 807 | Sz: small | Int: human. 13:26 FIQ: Still no. Presumably the hornet is too busy supporting the spriggan 13:26 extremely boring 13:26 "move: 60%" 13:27 what does this mean 13:27 It's a pretty good idea for ersatz riding monsters, though. 13:27 they move faster than they attack presumably 13:27 Pinkbeast: I suppose 13:28 for example: 13:28 juggernaut (C) | Spd: 15 (atk: 450%) | HD: 20 | HP: 139-201 | AC/EV: 20/5 | Dam: 80, 40 | doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: magic(120), drown | XP: 7209 | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 13:28 I want to say some Angband variants have something similar but I can't bring it to mind 13:28 hmm 13:28 its attack is much slower 13:28 I am fairly sure this is a new feature 13:28 uh 13:28 you'd think 450% means it attacks *faster* 13:28 It costs 450% of a turn to attack 13:28 Is how I read it 13:28 ah 13:28 So it would cost 4.5 * 12 13:29 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 13:29 Assuming move:60% means it only consumes 12*.6 to move for the spriggan 13:29 which makes sense! 13:29 Weird way to encode it 13:29 ADOM and CoQ both have "energy cost" and "speed" (quickness in CoQ) as seperate concepts 13:29 dcss speed is base 10 13:29 Just have sep speed for attack/move 13:29 but yes 13:29 Base 10 is silly 13:29 You can't divide it by 3 or 4 13:29 various actions cost various amount of energy 13:29 one turn is 1000 energy for a 100 speed monster in ADOM 13:30 Spellcasting speed and swimming speed can also be distinct 13:30 I don't remember what the CoQ values are but the concept is similar there 13:30 why is it necessary to divide it into 3 or 4 13:30 some actions cost more/less energy than the typical 13:30 but improving speed increases everything 13:31 i'd love to see Beholder announce a Grouchy eh ascension! Kinda of curious what he decided to do 13:31 speedwise 13:31 there is an item in ADOM that changes movement energy cost from 1000 to 750 13:32 it's generally considered by most to be among the best items in the game 13:32 This division of move and attack energy dates back to Oct 2007 and - ha, back on topic - would be an excellent idea in NetHack 13:32 I've considered it 13:32 but decided against it 13:32 NH has not really sorted out the issues arising from changing what monster speed meant in uh 3.2? 13:32 yes, so that troll in nethack can't chase you and stab you with his polearm at the same time 13:33 I can only imagine the nightmare if orc priests could cast and move at the same time 13:33 because to someone who isn't familiar with energy vs speed systems 13:33 it gets really confusing 13:35 it would also mean reverting what was easily the biggest contributor to NH4 save size 13:35 which I'd rather not do 13:35 more than doubling it 13:35 rebatela, me too. He said he would let me know when he starts playing again, I'll let you know too 13:36 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) retrieved the Mine's End luckstone, on T:33862 13:36 it sounds like he's careful and takes his time, so it could be a day or two before he hops back on 13:36 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 13:37 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:41 Surely there is some way in libuncursed to hide the cursor? :-\ 13:41 there is 13:41 why? 13:41 same was as in regular curses 13:41 curs_set 13:42 Oh 13:42 0 for invisible 13:42 1 for visible 13:42 How did I not see that? 13:42 what are you doing with libuncursed? 13:42 I think I was grepping for "cursor" 13:42 >This function changes whether the cursor is visible. Technically, the legal 13:42 "cursor" 13:43 https://i.imgur.com/RluXeai.png 13:43 Behold bubblehack 13:43 in all its glory 13:43 it's not a nethack variant 13:43 Technically now. 13:43 no 13:43 Although why do you say that? :x 13:43 Ah the "status bar"? 13:44 I think FIQ might be defining nethack variants to be things that are forked off nethack's codebase 13:44 Yeah 13:44 Fair enough 13:44 which would be a questionable definition 13:44 I'm a monster, I'm sorry 13:44 some people consider pathos nethack codex to be a variant 13:44 http://home.fiq.se/fiqrogue.png 13:44 for example pathos is not a nethack variant 13:44 oh 13:44 Is there any good reason to keep dnd attrib ranges? 13:44 -!- kimeemaru2 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:45 I made this a while back 13:45 see, there's the disagreement 13:45 several years ago actually 13:45 bubbles_nh: people are used to them 13:45 when bored 13:45 have a good idea of what they mean 13:45 it uses libuncursed 13:45 True 13:45 libuncursed is not terrible 13:45 Much nicer than ncurses 13:45 it's basically ncurses but better 13:45 but it's still limited by some really questionable choices ncurses does 13:45 -!- kimeemaru has joined #hardfought 13:45 -!- kimeemaru has quit [Changing host] 13:45 -!- kimeemaru has joined #hardfought 13:45 True 13:46 if a nethack variant changes too many fundamental systems of nethack, people start seeing it as a different game entirely with its own learning curve 13:46 I actually have a port of the curses windowport to libuncursed 13:46 isn't pathos just nethack inspired, though? 13:46 it's hard to say every hacklike is a variant 13:47 nethack inspired is a good word 13:47 or set of words 13:48 Shit it's only 7 and I'm out of beer 13:48 nooooooooooo 13:48 I'm starting to think bubbles IS tubs 13:48 tubbles 13:48 I am:( 13:49 But shhh 13:49 It is illegal for me to be here 13:49 Acoording to work 13:49 And my employer is massively anal 13:49 wait seriously 13:49 yeah 13:49 tubs? 13:49 /who bubbles 13:49 etc 13:49 But also we talk not of this 13:49 ;-) 13:49 hmm 13:49 name is familiar 13:49 mcw 13:49 yeah 13:50 I was writing the same thing before 13:50 I've seen that name before 13:50 I made a ducking legal request at work to continue working on it 13:50 And they shut me down 13:50 dicks 13:50 anyway 13:50 to work on your variant at work? 13:50 How the cuss does that "conflict" with work??? 13:50 IME uncursed has a few subtle differences in its internals 13:50 No, in my own time 13:50 it doesn't matter much if you're just making something new 13:50 We can't do ANYTHING which is released 13:50 Doesn't matter open source or not 13:51 but if you're trying to port an existing (n)curses game to it 13:51 Even tutorials, youtube videos etc. 13:51 things become painful 13:51 FIQ yeah it's from scratch so it's "ok" so far! 13:51 ais claims libuncursed porting is painless 13:51 aosdict: was it really the drinking that gives it away? :thinking: 13:51 when I did the absolute minimum set out by the libuncursed documentation to make the curses windowport work with libuncursed 13:51 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 13:52 things... well, crashed and burned 13:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) became the Glory of Eequor, on T:32071 13:52 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52 Go malor! 13:52 for a while I was unable to even get a proper screen of the game 13:52 eventually I figured out why 13:52 turns out that curses and uncursed handles stdscr differently 13:52 when the windowport want to refresh thet entire screen it used refresh() 13:53 this worked fine in curses 13:53 in uncursed it made stdscr override every other window 13:53 basically blanking the screen 13:53 because the windowport doesn't actually use stdscr for anything 13:54 I decided to just replace refresh with a custom implementation that did what I wanted it to, to see if it was enough 13:54 at that point I got a screen, with some crazy flickering 13:54 I have yet to address this 13:54 oh and another thing 13:55 it took forever for me to figure out how to get colors 13:55 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 13:55 see, uncursed seems to have some sort of bug 13:55 defining a color pair will not actually give it any color 13:55 Oh yeah I rmember this 13:55 remember 13:55 but will allow you to define colors for color pairs whose index is below the one you just defined 13:55 You have to do num colors first 13:55 Yeah you have to say index 500 and then you can use 8-500 right? 13:56 I decided to just define a high color pair that I wasn̈́t actually going to use 13:56 and then suddenly all colors sworked 13:56 *worked 13:56 \o/ 13:56 I think I remember having this conversaion with you two years ago 13:56 bubbles_nh: it was the drinking + UK + love of c++ + making a variant in c++ 13:57 aosdict: fair enough 13:57 As long as the rats at work don't see 13:57 They snitch 13:57 And they have teams who sniff out deceit 13:57 duckers 13:57 are you sure you're actually at a work 13:57 and not a prison 13:57 not dissimilar 13:58 it seems like if you got caught and fired that would make your life a lot happier 13:58 A friend has participated in the demo scene for something like 25 years, and they banned him from even GOING to a meetup. 13:58 maybe reduce effort to hide 13:58 not sure if "accidental" discovery would be much of a loss 13:58 aosdict: not quite, but job applications etc are all in the pipeline 13:58 hey marie 13:58 check your alignment 13:58 Also they are drones so they will never see through my disguise! 13:59 What is the "demo scene"? 13:59 Incarnations of {Demo}2? 13:59 Alas no 13:59 no 13:59 it's like 13:59 doing crazy stuff 13:59 It's code-golf/graphics/art/super cool 13:59 with limited resources 13:59 Insane stuff 13:59 Yeah, there are multiple variants, but they do things in like 4k 13:59 things like 3d on commodore 64 or similar 13:59 4k of code, so procedural generated 3d + audio 13:59 or doing things in just 4k bytes 13:59 etc 14:00 8088 corruption 14:00 is a somewhat popular demo 14:01 It's really impressive to see, very artistic etc. 14:03 Seriously mindblowing stuff 14:03 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ6ZzJeWgpY 14:03 this was a 64k one 14:03 from a couple of years back 14:04 so bubbles_nh == mcw 14:04 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05 shh 14:06 <{Demo}2> the demo scene sounds scary if it was a bunch of me 14:06 <{Demo}2> wait shit 14:07 <{Demo}2> hey bubbles_nh want a copy of tubhack so u can have something to "start working from" 14:07 <{Demo}2> ;) 14:07 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +3 grayswandir", on T:35226 14:07 <{Demo}2> cause i still have the local vesion 14:08 {Demo}2: yes 14:08 {Demo}2: I have no access to it anymore, I had disabled password on the server then lost the private key 14:08 <{Demo}2> wait what 14:08 <{Demo}2> oh ok 14:08 oh snap 14:08 Such is life 14:08 Sorry for any deceit :( 14:08 I am not a terrible person 14:08 I think 14:08 -!- merleke has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:09 <{Demo}2> might not be up to date 14:09 <{Demo}2> nah it was fun deceit 14:10 <{Demo}2> bubbles_nh: https://0x0.st/z3YP.tgz 14:10 note to self: tricking aosdict is possible by learning C++ and making a nethack "variant" in C++ 14:11 {Demo}2: is source code included 14:11 if not, wouldn't it just be a tease 14:11 <{Demo}2> binaries are included 14:11 commit 021e4ce1d8c87df70ad61ea757790b4ee07630ad (HEAD -> master, origin/master, origin/HEAD) 14:11 Author: mcw 14:11 Date: Thu Apr 19 13:30:51 2018 +0100 14:11 <{Demo}2> shh 14:11 this is my most up to date commit 14:11 <{Demo}2> oh 14:11 for tubhack 14:12 didn't realize I had a copy too 14:12 <{Demo}2> whats the conent 14:12 now we all do 14:12 \o/ 14:12 <{Demo}2> urs is more up to date than mine i think 14:12 apparently this mcw learned how to disable the cursor 14:12 a bit too well 14:13 Hmm 14:13 http://home.fiq.se/tubhack.png 14:13 I have a ton of potions of mutation 14:13 I was less happy with c++ in those days honestly 14:13 How many heads did you grow? 14:13 there also seems to be a bug 14:14 Only one! 14:14 closing inventory menu with space needs to be done twice 14:14 well, one discovered so far :P 14:14 I grew some arms and legs 14:15 1/1 You grow a new set of arms... but they quickly shrivel away 14:15 :( 14:15 I wanted to wield a pancake in my 1st left hand 14:15 I think there is an amy monster 14:15 With 8 arms 14:15 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:15 and an aklys in my 1st right one 14:15 And 8 artifacts 14:15 but after wielding the aklys 14:16 choosing 1st set for pancake crashed the game 14:16 Interesting, I'm defo going to crib my own pathfinding code, but the other stuff will be done better 14:16 NO CRASHES 14:17 do you want my history 14:17 or is {Demo}2's good enough 14:17 Nah send yours 14:17 As well, please^ 14:17 >Added new dungeon generation algorith 14:17 And many thanks! 14:17 is the last thing you did here 14:17 all right one sec 14:17 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 14:18 I recall doing some nice multi-level maps 14:18 http://home.fiq.se/tubhack.zip 14:18 Which spread horizontally like arcadia, but in 2D 14:18 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:18 <{Demo}2> yeah the last commit on mine is fixing demo and fiq bugs 14:19 Strange,I don't write bugs 14:19 <_ 14:19 {Demo}2: wow, yours was way older 14:19 <{Demo}2> yeah 2 days older 14:19 yeah 14:19 way older 14:19 :) 14:20 I bet mine wasn't the newest either 14:20 but at least it was a bit newer 14:20 hoorayt 14:20 *hooray 14:21 Haha good puns 14:21 I forgot about this 14:26 <{Demo}2> i forgot how neat it was 14:27 why 14:27 ... 14:27 waiting around 14:27 n get's 3 steals in and teleports away 14:27 >you stop waiting 14:28 die nymph die 14:34 !goat rng 14:34 jonathanhanes_'s goat runs up and rams rng in the arse! Baaaaaa! 14:34 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 14:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) rejected atheism by consulting with the priest of Anhur, on T:3962 14:41 I need to learn to play things other than wiz 14:42 and stop trying to pretend that I am playing wizard when I am actually not 14:42 BidneR! 14:42 Binder!!! 14:42 go go go 14:42 for fh gameplay reasons 14:42 Port binder to fh 14:42 Binder monsters <3 14:42 giv magicbane plxxxx 14:42 one thing @luxidream has called me out on is my habit of balancing things with wiz in mind 14:42 because it's what I play the most 14:42 FIQ: what role are you playing as a wizard? 14:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Sir Garland, on T:32874 14:43 In before barbarian 14:43 go go malor! 14:43 b_jonas: all of them 14:43 hmm 14:43 hmm 14:44 I have an arc paci in fh atm 14:44 I never intended for it to be a paci game 14:44 it just turned out that way 14:44 and I am not actually playing it as a wiz 14:44 but that's an exception 14:44 rather than the rule 14:44 my usual approach is "learn ALL the books, make sure I can cast things" 14:45 priest, monk, healer, wiz (duh), tou 14:45 Spells are strong 14:45 are the roles I play the most 14:45 I wonder how you accidentally play pacifist though 14:45 I wouldn't hate restricting more roles to fewer schools of spellcasting 14:45 probably because they have the easiest time casting spells :P 14:45 b_jonas: ah, you see 14:45 in fh pets are actually useful 14:45 And making the unskilled penalties waaaay harsher 14:45 so I like to keep myself lowlevel for MT 14:46 I just... never stopped playing paci style 14:46 because I wanted to see how long I could last 14:46 and, well 14:46 "MT"? 14:46 I'm midgame now 14:46 minetown 14:46 midgame as in, completed mines and sokoban 14:46 been to dlvl20 14:46 atm I am at oracle, I don't remember why I was heading here 14:46 probably for enlightenment 14:47 q - a +0 magical leather hat named drain immunity (being worn) {3} 14:47 this is a nice item 14:47 Ah gotcha, for protection? 14:48 bubbles_nh: that's why I have a habit of playing paci earlygame yeah 14:48 except I usually kill an orc for alignment 14:48 so I can pray up my starting healthg 14:48 h*health 14:48 but arcs don't need to do that 14:48 so I ended up truly playing paci 14:49 I don't want fiqhack to turn into ADOM balance-wise 14:49 where the game basically ends up balanced around wizards 14:49 (wizards are far, far easier than melee roles in ADOM) 14:51 hmm 14:51 I wonder if the term vault in dcss originates from roguelikes like ADOM 14:51 where vaults are, well, vaults 14:51 with treasure and monsters 14:52 and the only time ADOM has fixed layouts for a part of a floor 14:52 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 572 points, T:4401, killed by Ms. Ballingeary; the shopkeeper 14:52 In Angband they are both vaults as in treasure and monsters and as in fixed-layout 14:52 extending it further, allowing much of a floor to comprise of various combinations of these vaults 14:52 make some of them not contain monster or treasure but simply be a case of fixed layout 14:52 and you get dcss vaults 14:53 !pom 14:53 bubbles_nh: The moon is waning crescent; new moon in 3 days. 14:53 ... and Moria too, which I think may make Moria the first roguelike to so use the term? 14:55 Angband now (dunno since when) has some vaults that are predominately scenery - if I read the file aright, that aren't guaranteed to place monsters at all. Not a lot, though. 14:58 I wish dnh would remind you that incantifiers don't heal on their own 14:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:34069 14:58 it does 14:58 each time you start the game 14:59 I know :( 15:00 oh a bones 15:00 wonder if it's bubbles 15:00 dragonspeaker! 15:01 -!- BEHiker91W has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02 so this channel is for like multiple roguelikes, even ones not related to nethack? 15:02 nethack variants 15:02 maybe I should look at that homepage in the topic 15:02 b_jonas: It's a general channel but with strong ties to NetHack since hardfought is primarily a NetHack server 15:02 specifically for the hardfought.org server, which hosts most nethack variants (and no other roguelikes) 15:03 ZAPM 15:03 it sort of doubles as #nethackvariantdev 15:03 But a certain amount of offtopic and NetHack adjacent chat is accepted. Or tolerated, I guess, even that Pinkbeast bloke who loves DCSS. 15:03 I'll look at the homepage to see what variants it hosts 15:03 But if you only love vanilla rebatela is your man 15:03 b_jones accept the love and good that is dnh into your heart 15:03 Chris is love. Chris is life. 15:04 bubbles_nh: Hey, Amy loves vanilla so much she doesn't even tolerate 3.6.x because it's not vanilla enough :-) 15:04 b_jonas: A large part of the server's stuff hasn't seen activity in years 15:04 for example, the forum 15:04 b_jonas: Are you one of the nethack4 devs? 15:04 which iwhich i find ia bit silly to be honest 15:04 It has been a server far longer than it has been a NetHack server 15:04 er minus the extra letters 15:04 or nitrohack? 15:05 NetHack4 devs 15:05 aosdict: no 15:05 nethack4 devs => maybe, not really 15:05 or used to be, at least iirc 15:05 I did submit a lot of bug reports and tested it 15:05 ran into bugs 15:05 a lot of the old opiniated posts about balance that originated from NetHack4 people was from b_jonas I think 15:05 -!- merleke has joined #hardfought 15:05 such as role rework 15:06 or maybe I'm confusing him with someone else 15:06 haven't seen b_jonas in years 15:06 FIQ: the ones about balance is less from me 15:06 DNH! 15:06 I cared more about consistency and beauty 15:06 plus the interface working well 15:07 ah 15:07 what are your opinions on 4k and fiqhack 15:07 I've no clue, I don't play nethack anymore 15:07 fair 15:07 so I don't really have any opinions 15:07 except for really opinionated ones like how 3.6 did the wrong fix for chest traps 15:07 and how the monMR formula is wrong 15:07 what did it do 15:07 you should get into it at some point 15:08 again 15:08 stenno: it's hard to stop 15:08 FIQ: 3.6 made the castle chest generate untrapped 15:08 I managed to avoid nethack for 2 years 15:08 or 3.6.something 15:08 i just found him in #esoteric and had to invite him again :D 15:08 I'm not sure which 3.6 15:08 but I came back 15:08 stenno: oh I see 15:08 so you're the one to blame 15:08 :P 15:08 :I 15:08 in a positive way, yes 15:09 yes 15:09 FIQ: he didn't get me to play. that's harder than getting me to join a channel for a short time 15:09 b_jonas: careful, he might take that as a challenge 15:09 :P 15:09 haha 15:09 nah no worries 15:09 anyway, playing every role as a wizard in late game is totally what I do 15:09 but the early game, it doesn't work so well 15:09 even a caveperson? 15:10 I think technically optimal play even for casters is to play bad melee 15:10 there is a video on youtube of a valk FODing rodney 15:10 and wiz endgame 15:10 FIQ: no wait, I play a late game wizard as a melee role 15:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Ran Hum Mal Cha), 1080632 points, T:55581, choked on a tin of giant meat 15:10 combat wombat strat 15:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Mon Hlf Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Tie-Dye Shirt of Shambhala", on T:34823 15:11 first max out your XL and attributes, get two good weapons, bless them, polymorph to a vampire lord, and that's it 15:11 fiqhack monsters may genocide you 15:11 since vampire lords are genocideable 15:11 I use spells for utility, though of course occasionally attacking them is fun too 15:11 attacking with them 15:12 it also allows you to quiver spells 15:12 FIQ: right, this strat is for vanilla 3.4.3 15:12 for easier access 15:12 FIQ: quivering spells makes sense, but I don't really need that for my strategy 15:12 and has spell maintenance that auto-recasts self-buffing spells 15:12 like haste self and detect monsters 15:12 I sort of gave up after I found out how spellbooks work though 15:12 and sane pw regen without eota 15:13 once you play for 80000 turns, they become hard to replenish and forget all your spells 15:13 which is part of the reason why I abandonned that wizard game and never ascended it 15:13 and spellbooks give all their knowledge all at once to avoid the need to play the stash game with them 15:13 I only ascended one game, the valkyrie one, and used spells like a wizard in it, but also melee 15:13 one polymorph zap and my d turned into a D \o/ 15:13 that's the kind of thing fh does 15:13 major focus on general QoL 15:14 it also has peaceful displacement, dcss ctrl+f, automatically swapping between melee and ranged weapons 15:14 if I finished that wizard game, it would have had to be with most of my spells forgotten 15:14 because even though I have magic markers, I can't get spellbook paper 15:14 and that really sucks 15:15 FIQ: interface improvements are a big goal of nethack4 too 15:15 that's why I cared so much about that variant while it was active 15:15 re-implements object pile highlighting that nethack4 lacked, less annoying pet AI, autounlock (doors and chests), pet satiation to avoid them eating everything 15:17 ichbinmiah: wand of capslock 15:17 Oops 15:19 FIQ: anyway, the role overhaul was something that ais523 tried to figure out -- me, I tried a monster type and color overhaul 15:19 removes poison instadeath, the mysterious force, made it easier to level up latergame, nerfed queest requirement to XL10, searching is much stronger (always finds doors and corridors in 1 turn), no peacefuls in Sokoban, shows weight/total in inventory to make it easier to see burden state, merges objects regardless of ID knowledge, adds monster stat lookup 15:19 mostly monster type 15:19 regrouping monsters under letters in more consistent ways than what evolved from nethack history 15:20 "easier to level up latergame"? I found cubuses easy enough 15:20 b_jonas: jonadab and I have done similar changes to that 15:21 to limited success in terms of reception 15:21 aosdict: my ideas are still mostly visible on the nethack4 bug tracker 15:21 aosdict: I see 15:22 people complain about yellow leprechauns (moved leps to i and lizards became l) and [color] quantum mechanics (put elves on Q to un-overcrowd @) 15:23 OTOH, no one has really complained about moving mind flayers off H. 15:23 aosdict: that I can understand. leprechauns should be green, so much that I changed the color of wood nymphs 15:23 you can see in the table 15:23 let me pull it up 15:23 aosdict: do you mean off h ? 15:24 yes off h 15:24 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/XNetHack#Monster_recoloration_and_letter_rearrangement <-- my changes to monster colors/letters 15:25 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 614 points, T:2241, killed by a baby owlbear 15:25 aosdict: https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=353 15:25 colors altars based on alignment, made polearms use a sane UI, gives last divine interaction status (to let players estimate things like prayer safety), gives hints for vague level messages ("This level must house a vault" etc), changed spell failure system to avoid the "98% fail identify" tedium, made plane of water less annoying, ports 3.6.x sokoban completion notifier, teleportitis now preselect travel 15:25 destination, <> works as _< and _> outside staircases, prevents accidental moves into traps, travel ignores items and engravings 15:26 I think those are all of fiqhack's major changes that was done due to QoL alone 15:26 also https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=298 as a fallout for the kind of bugs that you can get when you try to rearrange monster types 15:26 rather than potentially being QoL improvements but mostly have changed for gameplay reasons (such as covetous nerf) 15:26 because nethack code refers to monster types (and even the order of monsters within a type) in a lot of places 15:27 b_jonas: dragons come to mind 15:28 they're the worst offender I believ 15:28 e 15:28 you may not change order of dragons 15:28 or code will break 15:28 FIQ: dragons are the ones that devs know about 15:28 there are a lot of references that you don't know about 15:28 just grep for all mlet checks 15:28 simple 15:28 and they're hard to find because they use less-than comparison ranges rather than exact equlity often 15:29 what 15:29 FIQ: I suggest keeping mlet as the legacy monster letter, see https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=353 15:29 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Nalzok, on T:39146 15:29 what crazy person did this 15:29 that's insane 15:29 FIQ: not for monster types, admittedly 15:29 only for monsters or items 15:29 for monster types I think it's only equality 15:29 thank god 15:29 but just see that second ticket that I linked to 15:29 I didn't want to think of the potential fallout of such logic if you, say, changed a monster's letter 15:30 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 15:30 FIQ: but the monster table must be sorted by monster type, and by difficulty within a monster type, so if you change the letters, you have to reorder the table, and that can mess up checks 15:30 or something like that, I can't swear that I got the details correct 15:30 read the source 15:30 b_jonas: aosdict and I have made our own mlet tweaks proposals based on yours 15:31 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) picked up the Bell of Opening, on T:39246 15:31 but really, see https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=353 15:31 no 15:31 sorry 15:31 I mean see https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=298 15:31 about what can go wrong if you change a monster letter 15:31 oh also 15:31 FIQ: has vanilla fixed eels being infravisible yet? 15:32 b_jonas: but that's just a matter of looking for S_GHOST surely? 15:32 or your variants? 15:32 FIQ: yes 15:32 https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=376 this somehow annoys me a lot 15:32 fucking eels 15:32 # define pm_infravisible(ptr) ((ptr->mflags3 & M3_INFRAVISIBLE) != 0L) 15:32 in fiqhack 15:33 anyway, you can see that a lot of these little bugs that I have aren't things that often comes up for balance 15:33 # define infravisible(ptr) ((ptr->mflags3 & M3_INFRAVISIBLE) != 0L) 15:33 same in nethack4 15:33 except without the pm_ prefix 15:33 FIQ: right, it's the M3_INFRAVISIBLE flag in the monster table that you have to change in eels 15:33 I looked up infravisible flags because of a YANI at some point 15:33 and these were the only strange ones 15:34 what does eel infravisibility have to do with monster ordering? 15:34 nothing 15:34 unrelated 15:34 (because fh infravisible() means "specific monster is infravisible", which doesn't exist but is consistent with infravision which does behave that way) 15:34 it's a bug that's simple to fix 15:35 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35 b_jonas: are eels not supposed to be infravisible? 15:35 cold blooded 15:35 right 15:35 so that's a no 15:35 FIQ: I think they are not supposed to be infravisible 15:35 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 15:36 https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=376 "Make eels not infravisible" 15:36 "Make giant eels and electric eels not infravisible. They're fish, so cold blooded." 15:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] ichbinmiah (Val Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:5742 15:39 I'm not viisble through infravision 15:39 I'm a cold blooded-killer 15:39 ! 15:39 bubbles_nh: see, that's what I said above. polymorph to a vampire lord. 15:40 I've not played doppelganger for ages. 15:47 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 673 points, T:2204, killed by an elder pseudodragon called Draco 15:48 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 15:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 15:53 <@malor> K2 I was just timed out and when coming back in I waited for the "10 second reset" and then it says: Couldn't terminate one of your stale dnh318 processes gracefully. Force its termination? [yn] 15:53 <@malor> Should I say "y"? 15:57 <@malor> I said "y" then said, "keep my game" and it gave me a ton of "lightsource errors" but eventually worked. 15:58 ugh 15:58 I have had a few dnh crashy too recently 15:58 I had an android game that went caput 15:58 dnh has that extra recovery bits 15:58 kaput 15:59 i would have said 'no' and i would have gone in and handled it 15:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 477 points, T:2939, killed by a kitten 15:59 or just wait for it to timeout 16:00 Ooh very early barb orc chaotic wish in dnh 16:00 any thoughts 16:00 malor? 16:01 Limited Moon maybe? 16:01 !tell AntiGulp sorry about that assumption, I just thought that the demon lords were still covetous when they got that "warp up when you ascend a staircase" boost. With them being non-covetous they're probably manageable :) 16:01 LarienTelrunya: Message from AntiGulp at 2019-10-23 13:09 EDT: Could you elaborate on your issues with the balance of SpliceHack’s latest additions (Baphomet nonwithstanding, because I agree)? I value your feedback. 16:01 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 16:02 Or just DSM? 16:02 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02 hi bubbles_nh! it seems you played some slex earlier? was it fun? *bubblebubblebubble* ♥ 16:03 FLEECY 16:03 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 16:04 A fleecy hand touched my pants 16:04 Which is about as much action as I've had in the past few months 16:04 so sure! 16:04 hahaha :) did it also massage your nuts? 16:04 Sadly no 16:04 aww 16:04 I killed a fair-few glasses-wearing "retards" though 16:04 Do you hate specteclaes? 16:04 heh, they're based on some particular guy I had the displeasure to meet in RL 16:05 don't have anything against glasses per se, but on that guy they made him look even stupider :P 16:05 <@Umby> :V 16:05 !lastgame slex bubbles 16:05 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bubbles/slex/dumplog/1571848942.slex.txt 16:06 WTF how far did you get??? was that your first slex game? 16:06 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Client Quit] 16:06 and you made it all the way to DL11 XL9? 16:06 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 16:06 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Pri Hum Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:42739 16:07 <@malor> Something that gives magic resistance if you don't already have it. Why you may ask since your quest artifact gives magic resistance? Answer: Because if you have magic resistance as a barbarian your odds of winning the game are close to 90%. Getting a better weapon is going to give you no noticeable increase in winning the game since Barbarians go way over the top on damage anyway. If you have magic resistance then get "life drain 16:07 resistance" next. 16:07 bubbles_nh: oh wait, it was your second run actually 16:07 <@malor> so even though you get a throw-away wish you will be super fine anyway. 16:07 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 889 points, T:1103, killed by a gnome lady, while unconscious from rotten food 16:07 ugh 16:07 <@Umby> time to nerf orcish barbarians, obviously 16:08 Close to 90% 16:08 He dies to a parrot 16:08 :( 16:08 I am so bad at this game! 16:08 <@Umby> jokes aside, I keep thinking about the fact that barbs can potentially learn jump 16:08 <@Umby> and get some non-meme use out of it 16:08 bubbles_nh: do you want to play slex with me watching? *bubblebubblebubble* ;) (I love how I can now use that as a replacement for "bundlebundlebundle") 16:08 also rip :/ 16:08 Sure 16:08 you're playing on hdf-eu, right? 16:09 <@Umby> thing is barbs still have low int and that bitchass base casting penalty 16:09 <@Umby> lul 16:09 Yeo/angel is pretty reasonable right? 16:09 Still get reaper or whatever it is as first sac from slashem? 16:09 yep, angel is generally viewed as the "easy mode race" in slex; yeoman isn't that easy but also not that bad 16:09 +20 halberd 16:09 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09 oh, in slex the "first guaranteed sacrifice gifts" aren't exactly guaranteed anymore; just more likely to be given as a gift than other random stuff 16:10 And yeah eu 16:10 Ah ok 16:10 however if you don't get them as your first gift, the higher-than-average chance of getting them persists for future gifts until they do get generated 16:11 ah finally google lag started, so I can watch via that instead of hterm :) 16:11 Why did I stagger there? :hmm: 16:11 and yes that's my nickname for google chrome :P 16:11 I've stepped ona trap right 16:12 uhh I didn't see, google lag is still loading 16:12 Where my horsey 16:12 if only my landlady didn't block port 22 I could just watch via putty 16:12 Oh well 16:12 Ill 16:12 On turn 462 16:13 Already prayed the first one away 16:13 lol wut 16:13 damn, watching on google chrome makes walls look like mqqqqj on my end and the s key doesn't fix it for some reason 16:13 oh well, I'll cope 16:14 bubbles_nh: remember that you have a scroll of cure which will cure sickness; however, replacement cure scrolls are hard to come by 16:14 if landlady wanted to block incoming traffic on port 22, ok i get that 16:14 but outgoing? does she hate you or something? 16:14 Can't you configure putty to use a different outgoing port in the tens of thousands? 16:14 and thats silly 16:14 K2: no idea, IIRC her late husband set it up and now he's not available anymore to change it and she doesn't know how to change it herself (not tech savvy) 16:15 not what you said aosdict 16:15 I'm surprised it doesn't try to o that by default. 16:15 do 16:15 The downstairs is behind these rainclouds? 16:15 aosdict yes you can tell putty to use whatever port. hdf doesnt do ssh over any other port except default 16:15 bubbles_nh: if you're unlucky it might indeed be 16:15 may you freely eat pet corpses if they have died? 16:15 without penalty that is 16:15 yes 16:15 that's 8 ids off of 4 blessed scrolls of id 16:16 that's rng 16:16 !goat rng 16:16 jonathanhanes_'s goat runs up and rams rng in the face! Baaaaaa! 16:16 LarienTelrunya ask your landlady for the router credentials 16:16 it's fine I don't care what any of this stuff is anyway 16:16 K2: maybe I should do that and reconfigure it... but if I mess it up, she'll hold me accountable 16:16 you know enough to edit consumer level routers yeah? 16:16 if not, just look up a how to for the make/model 16:17 ichbinmiah: unless they are "pet" type creatures like cats/dogs 16:17 well I've never edited them yet but I might be able to pull it off with the online help 16:17 Eating any of those corpses will give you aggravate monster 16:17 its not hard 16:17 indepdendely of being an ex-pet 16:17 in fact I've even tried once, but it turned out that what I had weren't the proper login credentials :P 16:17 you cant even use a local irc client can you 16:18 forced to use web irc? 16:18 bubbles_nh: are you carrying around a container yet? if not, a box or chest is useful; slex lets you carry a lot more than other variants 16:18 K2: never tried, I'm using the kiwi webchat 16:18 but chances are mirc or hexchat or others wouldn't work 16:19 obtw bubbles_nh: as a yeoman you'll probably want to be riding most of the time, because yeomen are slow while not riding but can get very proficient with polearms 16:19 My horse died 16:20 nooooooo :( 16:20 I played yeo a lot in slashem 16:20 did you at least save the saddle so you can use another horse if one crosses your path? 16:20 most of my limited time with slashem was playing yeoman 16:21 Couldn'tf ind his corpse 16:21 scrollback: bubbles_nh: I don't "only" love vanilla lol 16:21 i just don't have a problem with a lot of the things people seem to have with 3.6 16:22 i've been playing evilhack non-stop for the past month or so. about to kill wizard 16:22 oh huh... bubbles_nh: you're playing without statuscolors? 16:22 i just haven't played many variants (yet) 16:23 oops 16:23 shouldn't have got Ill 16:23 quaff random potions and hope for healing maybe? 16:24 You are subjected to random bad effects (14). 16:24 ;_; 16:24 -!- kimeemaru has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:24 that means you probably triggered a nasty trap somewhere; probably why you were stunned earlier 16:25 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:25 Don't liket he traps 16:25 what is an annika? 16:25 Go Team Annika! 16:25 she's a giiiiiirl ♥ 16:25 @le?Annika 16:25 Annika (M) | Lvl: 11 | Diff: 18 | Spd: 7 | Res: disintegrate poison petrification | Confers: nothing | MR: 30 | Generates: unique | AC: 7 | Attacks: 2d5 weapon physical, 2d5 kick physical, 1d1 touch disease, 1d1 passive disease | Alignment: 2 | Flags: omnivore, poisonous, nopoly, stalker 16:25 Oh, b_jonas is back. Haven't seen him in a while. 16:26 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 16:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 16:26 -!- poligono2007 has joined #hardfought 16:26 yo 16:26 wtf why do I get randomly disconnected 16:26 wdym 16:26 it's not just you 16:27 'remote host closed the connection' 16:27 LarienTelrunya: it's that darn landlady again 16:27 sometimes my freenode cuts off 16:27 who is this remote host and why is he closing my connection? 16:27 what terminal do you use? 16:27 Hello poligono2007 16:27 hi 16:27 Hello poligono2007, Welcome to #hardfought 16:27 hi 16:27 Hello poligono2007, Welcome to #hardfought 16:27 hi 16:27 Hello poligono2007, Welcome to #hardfought 16:27 hi 16:27 Hello poligono2007, Welcome to #hardfought 16:27 pls 16:28 what is happening? 16:28 <@malor> also Bubbles - for Barbarians the Orc isn't the best since humans will start with 18/18/18 and be tough when the game is harder. By the time "Orc advancement" kicks in Barbarians have gone over-the-top anyway. 16:28 hi 16:28 Hello poligono2007, Welcome to #hardfought 16:28 oh ok i get it 16:28 :) 16:28 every time i say hi it appears 16:28 its the channel bot 16:28 how strong is divine lightning from trying to convert a cross-aligned altar with a Priest present? 16:29 good question 16:29 ie how strong is the divine retribution for attacking said priest 16:30 <@malor> K2, I came back in after saving following the last timeout + reentry and it is asking if I want to "recover" even though I cleanly saved and left. Can you verify my game is good or should I just recover? 16:30 malor thanks! 16:30 hi 16:30 Hello poligono2007, Welcome to #hardfought 16:30 lemme look 16:30 ok 16:30 is there a dad bot too 16:30 thats smiting, right? 16:30 malor but orc is more me 16:30 im hungry 16:31 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 16:31 ichbinmiah: er. 16:31 ichbinmiah: fatal. it kills you 16:31 @malor these game files are 36 min old 16:31 <@malor> Ok, just be careful early I guess. 16:31 ah ok, I thought it was a 6d6 or somesuch. good to know. 16:31 stenno: Well, if you just attack the priest, the lightning bolt can be reflected right? 16:31 <@malor> yes, 36 minutes sounds about right K2. 16:31 recovering this game would take you back to that point in time 16:31 Am I blind? 16:32 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Anger#Smiting talking about this 16:32 master of thieves really should have a steal attack 16:32 <@malor> I wasn't playing for the last 30 minutes or so. 16:32 malor roger - probably don't want to go to mines too early 16:32 <@malor> I think 36 minutes ago was when I quit or roughly. 16:32 10+ 16:32 bubbles_nh: as an angel, being subjected to a darkness attack (that grue used one) gives you weak sight for a period of time 16:32 Ah ok 16:32 No status bar thing? 16:32 you could recover it 16:32 <@malor> nah, you can easily solo the mines with an early orc barb. You just need to stay near max health. 16:32 i.e. a vision range of 0, meaning you can only see lit squares 16:32 first lethal lighting, then the WADB, and then i believe it not 16:32 nah that counts as a nasty trap effect, which aren't displayed on the status line 16:33 <@malor> yeah, it is right where I was. 16:33 hmm no thats not right lol 16:33 disregard 16:33 the heel trap can be untrapped :D (chance is low but if you have to walk into it anyway, might as well make one attempt at disarming it and if it fails, just move on normally) 16:33 <@malor> actually around 5 minutes back, but I was just doing inventory management. 16:33 Killing K is ok? 16:33 bubbles_nh: yes, but don't eat them as an angel; it counts as cannibalism 16:34 and don't offer them either unless you want to stain the altar with blood 16:34 -!- poligono2007 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34 ichbinmiah: disregard, i was looking at the wrong kind of thing 16:35 bubbles_nh: escaping past messages is a terrible idea in slex 16:35 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36 <@malor> oh wow, K2 - it actually re-randomized at least some of my game! Then I saved. Now when I try to go back in, it asks to "recover" or "destroy" again. 16:36 -!- kimeemaru has joined #hardfought 16:36 <@malor> do you see my save from 1 minute ago? 16:36 ah hell 16:36 lets look 16:36 LarienTelrunya: I am bad:( 16:37 heh, I mean it will go well as long as the monsters don't do anything unexpected, but you might e.g. skip past stuff like "The gnome reads a scroll of destroy armor! Your shield crumbles away!" 16:38 @malor your last backup save is from 4 hrs ago 16:38 <@malor> wow, that's going farther back in time every time 🙂 16:38 get out of dgl for a min 16:39 just cancel, answer no 16:39 <@malor> completely out of hardfought 16:39 k 16:39 <@malor> I canceled 16:39 I thought I was poison immune 16:39 no, in vanilla you would be but in slex you're only poison resistant 16:40 ok try now 16:40 also, in slex you can be doubly poison resistant if you have both in- and extrinsic resistance, which makes you more resistant but still not immune 16:40 however, even single resistance completely prevents the instadeath : 16:40 err that should have been a :) 16:40 uh-oh, you're in dangerminetown 16:41 <@malor> cool, that is essentially where I was. I'm going to do a few things and then save again to ensure progress. 16:41 LarienTelrunya: why is there a white dragon here?? 16:41 k 16:41 bubbles_nh: dangerminetown; unfortunately you moved the boulder that frees him :O 16:41 Time to smash him 16:41 lol... get your healing scrolls and phase door ready :D 16:41 I mean you might be able to pull it off, but he's dangerous 16:42 if you are going to fight him, you can also use your wand of striking and whatever other ranged stuff you have available 16:42 Danger is my middle name 16:42 <@malor> ok, I killed a bug and bought an item from the store and saved. Then returned to the "recover" page again. 16:42 <@malor> I cancelled again. 16:42 gdamn 16:42 ok let me check a couple other things 16:43 I - the heavily cursed -1 pair of kote of fumbling named Sankenkur's Resurrection boo 16:43 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 16:43 heh, complete garbage (or polyfodder) 16:43 @malor just checking for a ghost process 16:44 wow you have a stack of moonbeams! those are from dnethack I think? 16:44 i dont see any for dnh (thats good) 16:44 I can use the moonbeams right? 16:44 it seems like your game is corrupt somehow 16:44 Should be able to hit the dragon with them 16:44 <@malor> sounds fine. I don't mind not playing that game for a while. I have 5 other Malors in the bullpen 🙂 16:44 sure, quiver them and shoot them with a bow :) since they're artifacts, they have a reduced mulching rate 16:44 Too many malors spoils the ascension 16:44 <@malor> I would like to finish it though as it is definitely ascension ready. 16:44 They'll blast me when I pick them up but yolo 16:45 its recovered again 16:45 why isn't the dragon coming out? can't he squeeze between wall and boulder? 16:45 <@malor> is it perma good? Or what do you think K2? 16:45 bubbles_nh careful with that artifact blast! 16:46 Not sure 16:46 Yeah tell me about it 16:46 forgot slashem made it more meaningful 16:47 @malor I dont know 16:47 is that cowardly dragon fleeing?! 16:47 i cant actually crack open the save file to look like you can with nh4 16:47 <@malor> Larien: I was noticing reading the items on one of Tairu's ascensions that his items were "rotted fireproof". Does that mean that "rotted" doesn't matter? Or that "rotted" can't be avoided or how does that work? 16:48 Weird 16:48 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 188 points, T:508, killed by a dart 16:48 noooooooo :( rip 16:48 I thought I had killed it 16:48 "The silver arrow hits it. You kill it" 16:48 etc 16:48 But it was a FLUNKY 16:48 @malor: is possible in vanilla even, by using cursed confused destroy armor :D it means that the item is fooproof now but still has some damage 16:49 i.e. the "rotted" does indeed still affect the item's quality; in slex there's antimatter/withering damage too, which simply ignores fooproofing and damages the item anyway 16:49 bubbles_nh: ooh an elven elf, those can do machinegun-like bursts of arrows with their bow :D 16:50 <{Demo}2> elf elf elf elf 16:50 elven elf 16:50 why is there a green slime on dlvl1 16:50 <@Umby> dualclass elf 16:50 <@Umby> chameleon being a tawt, methinks 16:50 <@Umby> wow, got the word in reverse 16:50 <{Demo}2> fle 16:50 Lotsa slimes 16:50 <@Umby> multiple green slimes 16:50 I tried to flee 16:51 <@Umby> it appears mistakes were made 16:51 <@Umby> not sure if bones 16:51 <@malor> ok, thanks L. 16:51 you have 100 turns to cure the sliming in slex 16:51 <@Umby> >L 16:51 <@Umby> more like fat L 16:51 which means kill them all first, then use a cure (if you still have one) 16:51 <@Umby> (unless that's what just happened) 16:52 rMistakes were very much made 16:52 <@malor> ok I think my game is really out of commission: goto_level: returning to discarded level? Program in disorder - you should probably S)ave and reload the game. Cannot open file "5malor.5" for level 5 (errno 2). Probably someone removed it. 16:52 <@malor> That's what i got when I went to the next floor. One I had visited, but now it reloaded itself. 16:52 yeah its definitely corrupt 16:53 5malor.5 exists 16:53 looking at it 16:53 That wasn't my fault! 16:53 <@Umby> !lastgame bubbles 16:53 @Umby: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bubbles/slex/dumplog/1571863734.slex.txt 16:53 oh fuck 16:53 My pet was invis 16:53 and I one-shot it 16:53 amy pls 16:53 <@malor> yeah, it does now. The game re-made it. 16:53 bubbles_nh: don't melee everything that moves or looks like it might move :P 16:53 <@malor> goto_level: returning to discarded level? Program in disorder - you should probably S)ave and reload the game. Cannot open file "5malor.4" for level 4 (errno 2). Probably someone removed it. 16:54 <@malor> same thing happened going to level 4. 16:54 geez 16:54 what do you want to do 16:54 <@malor> the "Temple of Moloch" was fine though. 16:54 bubbles_nh also: if you want a nice rcfile with stuff that you could want to copy into yours, https://em.slashem.me/userdata/Bluescreen/slex/Bluescreen.slexrc :) 16:54 <@malor> what are my options 🙂 16:54 stay stuck in recover hell or i just nix this game altogether 16:54 Eww, level files. 3.x save system, eww eww eww. 16:55 <{Demo}2> is it a broken dnh game? 16:55 yeah 16:55 <@malor> seems to be. 16:55 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55 <{Demo}2> OMG wait 16:55 <@malor> level 7 also not there. 16:55 <@malor> waiting... 16:55 <{Demo}2> is this the bug where it deletes all the levels? 16:55 What's a wagon? 16:55 looks like it 16:55 <@malor> yes that is what it seems to have done. 16:55 Ah ace will copy the rc file 16:55 bubbles_nh: if you move into it, you become hidden so monsters will have to uncover you before they can attack, and also improves your AC while standing on it 16:55 bubbles_nh: It's basically an open-bed truck without a cab. 16:56 HTH.HAND. 16:56 <@malor> I think it was Larien trying to get me to move over to Slex 🙂 16:56 <{Demo}2> malor what happened before the crash? 16:56 <@Umby> dying before turn 300 to a horde of green slimes on the first floor 16:56 I can hide in it 16:56 <@Umby> what a good game 16:56 <{Demo}2> like what level were u on 16:56 <{Demo}2> have you been to the quest at all? 16:56 i gotta go in 3 min fyi 16:56 <{Demo}2> ok 16:56 <@Umby> "You eaten food" absolutely nettles me btw 16:56 <@Umby> as does the absurd amount of details in this EoG report that makes it feel super padded 16:56 <@malor> I was in sokoban arranging my cache. Then after only like 2 minutes of inactivity, maybe 5, but definitely not a lot, it timed me out of hardfought alltogether. No visible crash just a "timeout" 16:56 Clearly that was meant to be "You is eaten, food." 16:57 <@malor> I have done the quest. 16:57 <@malor> after that each time I have entered it is in some sort or "recover" or whatever mode. 16:57 <{Demo}2> yes the game is fucked 16:57 <@malor> and it recovers backwards rather than staying where I was as per usual. 16:57 <@malor> is it unrecoverable? 16:57 <{Demo}2> what level were you on before that happened 16:57 <@malor> What if I touch every level I have every been to? 16:57 LarienTelrunya: "Welcome to Possogroenoe's zorkmid store!" Hmm 16:58 <@malor> sokoban level 5 or 6. 16:58 Is this a bank 16:58 <@malor> first level of soko 16:58 <{Demo}2> also what happened on the level before the crash 16:58 <{Demo}2> see any weird monsters? 16:58 bubbles_nh: haha he sells zorkmids, which you can buy if you have enough zorkmids! :D 16:58 <{Demo}2> spend a lot of time there? 16:58 <{Demo}2> use any weird items? 16:58 <@malor> nothing odd. And there aren't monsters on Soko #1. 16:58 <{Demo}2> you didn't spawn any? 16:58 ok gotta go 16:58 <@malor> I did spend a lot of time there but nothing more than normal. Soko #1 is my cache and I am on there a lot, but this time it wasn't even very much comparitively. 16:58 be back soonish 16:58 <@malor> I didn't use any items other than a potion or two. 16:59 <@malor> thanks K2. 16:59 <{Demo}2> this bug is major as hell and so rare 16:59 <@malor> no monsters spawned that I saw. 16:59 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 16:59 <{Demo}2> very weird 16:59 <@malor> If I touch all the levels to reload their level will that possibly save me. I'm about 90% of the way done with ascension on this game 🙂 16:59 <@malor> maybe 80% as slow as I play 🙂 16:59 bubbles_nh: try the panic digging tech in that southwest room maybe? 17:00 woo 17:00 woohoo :) 17:00 -!- ichbinmiah has quit [] 17:01 What's the worst that can happen? 17:01 What can possibly go wrong? 17:01 also in slex I consider pick-axes essential equipment because having to get past walls is not that uncommon 17:02 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had a bone crude dagger entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:18304 17:02 bubbles_nh: you should eat twen corpses, they increase maximum HP 17:02 bubbles_nh what is the orange | glyph? a pentagram? 17:03 nice 17:04 <@malor> also Demo - I have already completed the quest. 17:04 I slept so hard it isn't even funny 17:04 the pentagram is similar to a throne, but with a different set of effects; it's generally recommended to use it until it fades 17:05 !rng 17:05 NCommander: !rng thomas richard harold ; !rng do dishes|play nethack ; !rng 1-100 17:05 !role 17:05 NCommander: evilhack ranger 17:05 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05 Could be interesting 17:06 uh-oh! bubbles_nh: that seems to be a bones level 17:06 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 17:07 LarienTelrunya: does "generally recommended" mean anything other than "LT recommends this" 17:07 aosdict: in this case, Antichthon would also recommend it 17:08 ooooops 17:08 Elf, your life force is running out. 17:08 No sweat 17:08 easy 17:09 on the plus side, YASDing means I can get some real work done 17:09 the elf isn't very good at melee; they really shine at ranged combat with the bow 17:10 <@Umby> What happened oh6? 17:10 Push back is when I use staris too much? 17:10 bubbles_nh: can happen randomly when using stairs, mainly as a means to nerf the stairdancing mechanic :D 17:10 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:11 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 17:11 Where aqll thse monsters come from? 17:11 most of them probably started on that level 17:11 <@malor> demo - level 24 (one past medusa) was NOT gone. 17:12 but that tender jesse is particularly dangerous because she polymorphs into random girls, which can be rather strong 17:12 <@malor> castle also there. 17:12 <@malor> gehenomon also there. 17:13 @malor: sounds like you got the savegame error, or at least it reminds me of slex's savegame error where it crashes mid-saving and leaves a "half save" which has only certain levels in it, with the remaining ones still in the playground 17:13 oho h 17:13 locrottoea 17:14 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14 <@malor> ok, I touched every level. 17:14 <@malor> now will it save is the question 🙂 17:17 !ping 17:17 jonathanhanes: Pong! 17:17 !booze 17:17 * Beholder passes jonathanhanes a tall glass of the hooch, distilled by Announcy at 54 degrees Celsius. 17:17 !sushi 17:17 <@malor> K2 Demo LarienTelrunya It does appear to be fixed I saved and came back in. Then saved again and came back in. 17:17 <@malor> so the "fix" to losing all your levels is to re-touch them. 17:17 @malor you really revisited all the levels in the entire dungeon? 17:18 <@malor> Yes. I am basically ascension ready so it didn’t take very long 17:18 <@Umby> Controlled levelport? 17:18 <@Umby> Or just controlled portels to stairs? 17:19 bubbles_nh: don't use the unihorn more often than needed, as it has a 1 in 100 chance per use to break (or lose enchantment if it was enchanted) 17:19 <@malor> No I just found all the stairs again 🙂 17:19 <@malor> I can walk through nearly all mobs so it was quick. 17:20 <@malor> I did do all the side branches as the 2 I tried seemed to still exist 17:21 okay I'll be afk for a bit now; bubbles_nh: please don't die while I'm gone :) 17:21 Oh no 17:21 the same thing again 17:21 danger mines? 17:21 yeah looks like you got dangerminetown again! 17:22 good 17:22 Round 2 17:23 <@Umby> Dangerwhatnow 17:23 round 2 went to the dragon 17:23 I need to go get some cat litter though 17:24 <@Umby> Explain 17:24 <@Umby> Why dragons in Minetown 17:24 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 17:28 To taunt me umby# 17:28 I WILL vanquish it 17:28 Like I vanquish the demons and devils of hell 17:28 DO DEATH 17:33 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a lichen, on T:4593 17:35 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:36 -!- AntiVIrus has joined #hardfought 17:42 [hdf-us] [nh363] fen (Val Dwa Fem Law), 461 points, T:1085, killed by a large cat called Ginger 17:43 <@Umby> !lastgame fen 17:43 @Umby: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/f/fen/nethack/dumplog/1571865940.nh.html 17:44 <@Umby> That's two people dead to cats on that floor 17:44 <@Umby> What're the odds on three 17:45 [hdf-us] [evil] NCommander (Ran Hum Mal Neu), 1407 points, T:2923, killed by a wolf 17:45 well that was fun 17:47 <@Umby> !lastgame NCommander 17:47 @Umby: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/N/NCommander/evilhack/dumplog/1571864769.evil.html 17:47 !role 17:47 NCommander: notdnethack noble 17:47 -!- bubbles_nh has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:48 * NCommander has always been somewhat hestistant to play dnh or its variant 17:48 <@Umby> Why such a low level Ranger 17:48 <@Umby> Were you doing a thing 17:51 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 4216 points, T:6633, killed by a rodent of unusual size 17:51 NCommander: slex *bubblebubblebubble, err bundlebundlebundle* :D (actually, I hope that I'll be able to do a proper new slex release soon-ish, and then the bundling will really begin) 17:52 * NCommander wonders if LarienTelrunya's bundles need to take a bath hence bubblebubblebubble 17:52 Umby: Rangers kinda have a rough starting game 17:54 !role 17:54 NCommander: notdnethack anachrononaut 17:54 <@Umby> Specifically evilhack ones? 17:54 RNG wants me to play ndnh 17:54 !role 17:54 NCommander: nh healer 17:55 * NCommander has never ascended a healer 17:55 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 17:57 actually LarienTelrunya's bundles just took a shower, and as a result she can now fill entire rooms with the lovely scent of her Christina Aguilera shower gel ♥ 17:57 * NCommander is certain that LarienTelrunya's bundles are really a brain parasite that took over an innocent German girl and then created SLEX. 17:58 "parasites" more like symbiotes ;) 18:00 * NCommander wields a +7 pair of scissors and turns tolds LarienTelrunya 18:00 NOOOOOOOOOO stay away from me you vile demon! 18:01 * NCommander holds a potion of hair disintegration 18:01 * NCommander notes both items will likely never exist in SLEX :) 18:01 NCommander: why don't you like long hair :( :') 18:02 Long hair is fine, but causing pain to LarienTelrunya is amusing for the pain she inflicts with SLEX on the world :) 18:02 now you know what your players experience :) 18:04 -!- merleke is now known as merleke_zzz 18:05 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] kincle (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at them by some watery tart, on T:4227 18:06 <@Umby> Speaking of watery tarts, I suddenly miss toaster strudel. 18:06 NCommander: are they elven scissors? 18:07 @malor oh good 18:10 b_jonas, I don't think wooden scissors would work very well 18:10 <@Umby> >not using mithril scissors 18:12 elven is magical and fleecy 18:13 <{Demo}2> elven fleece 18:14 elven is copper 18:15 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1275 points, T:2682, killed by a gnome lady 18:15 or mithril 18:16 obtw for everyone who thought slex was made on drugs... I just found this abomination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a75ULyYO9ls (WARNING: not suited for people susceptible to epileptic seizures) 18:17 <@Umby> bold of you to assume I'm not well-acquainted with SimpleFlips memes and SM64 romhacks 18:18 <@luxidream> super releasio 64 18:20 <@Umby> new super bup deluxe 18:21 -!- ichbinmiah has joined #hardfought 18:21 toad always says "aa-hu!" and "äääääääääh!" and "iii-am-debest!" and "ah-dubberdubberdubberdubberdubber!" and so on :P 18:21 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought 18:22 oh and "kjear!" too, of course :D 18:22 ^ what does the fox say 18:22 -!- luxidream has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23 -!- luxidream has joined #hardfought 18:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Mon Swn Fem Cha), 258991 points, T:25577, killed by Master Kaen 18:28 rip 18:28 <@rikersan> k2: I like how your comments with amy boiled down to "... monsters ... can be dangerous in NetHack." :p 18:28 <@rikersan> (on the reddit post) 18:28 :) 18:29 it reminds me of this scene from ghostbusters - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkX9nVrDj8 18:30 -!- luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31 -!- Umbire_ has joined #hardfought 18:31 <@Umby> !lastgame rikersan 18:31 @Umby: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/dnethack/dumplog/1571787642.dnh.txt 18:34 <@Umby> Xorns AND Kaen? wew 18:39 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43 -!- bubbles_nh has joined #hardfought 18:43 No I did not! 18:43 Lies 18:45 heh 18:45 what other variants are you gonna try out bubbles_nh? 18:46 <{Demo}2> ndnh 18:46 <{Demo}2> !role 18:46 {Demo}2: dnethack priest 18:47 <@Umby> !lastgame bubbles 18:47 @Umby: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bubbles/slashem/dumplog/1556107926.slashem.txt 18:49 <@Umby> attacked on reflex, huh? 18:49 <@Umby> did your gloves get zapped? 18:49 -!- Umbire_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:02 Yeah yeah 19:02 A while back 19:02 Sadlty 19:02 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:02 couldn't even remember that game 19:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Pir Hum Mal Neu), 2928 points, T:1582, killed by a gnome, while reading a book 19:05 [hdf-us] [slshm] woodstea23 (Und Dro Fem Cha), 44215 points, T:20728, quit 19:07 -!- Umbire has joined #hardfought 19:08 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10 so i inherited this macbook pro 19:10 <@Umby> !lastgame woodstea23 19:10 @Umby: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/w/woodstea23/slashem/dumplog/1554942203.slashem.txt 19:10 <@Umby> neat 19:11 i just updated it to catalina (macOSX 10.15) 19:12 <{Demo}2> im sorry for ur loss 19:12 <{Demo}2> does anything run anymore? 19:14 yeah 19:14 i wiped the drive and then updated the os 19:14 was on 10.10 19:14 its not new 19:15 so i am not a big fan of macs 19:15 <{Demo}2> i like big macs 19:15 <@Umby> was there anything worth salvaging pre wipe? 19:15 but a couple people use them for work at where I am employed 19:15 @Umby no 19:15 so i need to keep this around so i know how to support them 19:15 <@Umby> oh 19:16 <@Umby> that's fair 19:16 yeah 19:16 <@Umby> is what good techs do 19:16 i try 19:16 -!- AntiVIrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17 i also want to see how the default terminal session works on this thing 19:17 so i can help nethack mac users 19:17 i've had a couple questions in the past and didnt know really how to help 19:22 i see that apple finally included a 'dark' mode for the UI 19:22 and i will give credit where credit is due - the retina display is really crisp 19:23 <{Demo}2> do u have one with the goofy ass touchbar? 19:23 -!- ichbinmiah has quit [] 19:23 no 19:23 <{Demo}2> oh nice 19:23 <{Demo}2> the touchbar shit pisses me the fuck off 19:24 <{Demo}2> esc is a SUPER important key, don't fuck with it 19:24 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Dra Hum Mal Neu), 63 points, T:161, slipped while mounting a saddled baby red dragon 19:24 lol 19:25 * K2 starts pounding the ESC key 19:34 ah this is a 4000 series intel cpu 19:35 <{Demo}2> oh so its an old mac with probably not even a shitty butterfly keyboard 19:35 <{Demo}2> or whatever they are called 19:35 <{Demo}2> the ones that are on the new ones and just feel like ass 19:36 <@FIQ> waitwaitwait 19:36 <@FIQ> 3.6.x has keyboard remapping? 19:37 command remapping 19:37 <@FIQ> er yes 19:37 <@FIQ> that 19:37 not like you can make it recognize a dvorak keyboard 19:37 <@FIQ> :P 19:37 <@FIQ> but er, does it? 19:40 <@FIQ> hmm I forgot menu search was a thing 19:40 <@FIQ> no wonder, its current effect is basically useless 19:41 <@FIQ> I know I considered fixing it in fh/nh4 at some point but I don't think I ever did 19:42 !whereis k2 19:42 K2: [hdf-us] k2 [evil]: (Ran Elf Mal Cha) T:1 The Dungeons of Doom level: 1 19:42 ^ on the mac 19:42 i need to figure out how to have the default terminal recognize CP437 19:43 and the color palette is all jacked up 19:46 [hdf-us] [slshm] woodstea23 (Und Dro Fem Cha), 4151 points, T:4351, killed by a little dog 19:48 -!- bubbles_nh has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:48 \o/ 19:49 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/IBMgraphics#MAC_OS_X 19:49 ^ spot on 19:49 oh shit 19:49 there's no numpad on this macbook pro 19:49 WTF 19:50 -!- bubbles_nh has joined #hardfought 19:50 <@Umby> welcome to hell 19:51 <@ShivanHunter> RIP 19:53 <{Demo}2> learn vikeys 19:53 <@rikersan> k2: :) vikeys are great 19:54 <@rikersan> aosdict: nethack recognizes keyboard layouts fine? 19:55 k2 tells people to buy external numpads often enough that I'm sure he has 3 of them lying around 19:55 @rikersan To my knowledge it only recognizes qwerty and qwertz? 19:56 <@rikersan> like, innately? 19:56 <@rikersan> I can use alt keyboard layouts with nethack fine, if I set the system layout? 19:56 aosdict I dont... because I dont buy laptops without them having a numpad 19:57 <@rikersan> (I used to have one that was a custom one, '.' was bound to '#stop using periods to wait, only search\n' or something like that for playing dnh with eurynome) 19:57 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Rog Inf Fem Cha), 2631 points, T:2322, killed by a magic missile 19:57 * K2 searches amazon for external numapds for mac 19:57 well if you set it through the system and not nethack itself, that's different. 19:57 <@rikersan> that's what I'm saying :p why would you want to set nh's specifically 19:58 K2: I like how you got the laptop, did all the fiddly parts of wiping it and reinstalling it and only now that you sit down to play nethack do you notice it doesn't have a numpad 19:58 i know right? 19:59 there's probably something wrong with me 19:59 * K2 shrugs 20:00 <@Umby> lol 20:00 <@FIQ> at least nethack actually supports numpad 20:00 <@Umby> on a tangent 20:00 <@FIQ> glares at recent ADOM versions 20:01 i didnt have to pay for this macbook so i cant complain 20:01 too much 20:02 <@Umby> EPI: If in SpliceHack you lose a run to player monster ascension, instead of the game ending you are forced to clear the Astral Plane of the rest while new peaceful player monsters spawn, and you have to wait for one to generate with the real Amulet 20:03 <@rikersan> that's not an EPI that's helpful to the player :p 20:03 <@Umby> depends on the odds of another player monster "putting together" an ascension run 20:03 <@Umby> :B 20:03 <@FIQ> 1% 20:03 <@Umby> that also means they have to respawn the Riders, too 20:04 <@rikersan> I mean you're effectively just making them not lose 20:05 <@rikersan> when something that normally will make them lose happens 20:05 <@rikersan> in my book not losing = good therefore that's a NPI (nice patch idea) 20:05 <@FIQ> Not all near-losses are nice 20:05 <@Umby> ^ 20:05 <@FIQ> Would you rather have to wait around 40k turns 20:06 <@FIQ> Or just lose? 20:06 <@Umby> exactly. 20:06 <@Umby> it's "nice" insofar as possibly waiting literally tens of thousands of turns for someone good enough to put together an ascension run but hopefully not good enough that you can't thrash them can be considered nice 20:06 <@FIQ> Lategame bohsplosions are similar 20:06 <@rikersan> that just seems annoying not evil to me /shrug 20:06 <@FIQ> You haven't lost 20:07 <@Umby> though it does open the door for letter player monsters do the dirty work against the hostile one, then backstab them and make off with it 20:07 <@rikersan> it's just hella annoying fiq :P 20:07 <@FIQ> But have fun reassembling an asc kit 20:08 <@Umby> I'm not the type to look at a loss condition and go "how can I screw them harder" as a first measure 20:08 <@FIQ> Force-poly into green slime is similarly horrible 20:10 <@Umby> YASI: globs of green slime can be weaponized ala footrice eggs 20:10 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 20:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 20:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) was given Xiuhcoatl, on T:3145 20:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) was given Dragonlance, on T:4286 20:14 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 20:14 <@rikersan> :( floor unheld one but I'm lawful 20:17 <@Umby> F in chat 20:18 F 20:18 AntiGulp: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2019-10-23 16:01 EDT: sorry about that assumption, I just thought that the demon lords were still covetous when they got that "warp up when you ascend a staircase" boost. With them being non-covetous they're probably manageable :) 20:18 <@Umby> F 20:19 <@Umby> Splicehack does seem genuinely interesting enough to give a poke 20:19 @Umby I don’t recommend it in it’s current state. New version drops in the next few weeks and is worlds better. 20:20 <@Umby> 👌 20:20 <@Umby> What're the improvments 20:22 Ok so in a nutshell… 20:22 Entirely new endgame featuring 7 levels (including the city of brass) and the seven deadly sins. Cartomancers are actually interesting to play. COOKING PATCH WOO! New system that lets you learn techniques from monsters. Tons of new monsters and items. Sexuality options. Way more bugfixes than I can count. 20:22 <@Umby> coolio 20:22 I’m still working on updating the wiki. It’s exhausting 20:28 <@Umby> while you're at it, could you help me here and there with other pages? 20:28 <@Umby> once you're 110% done that is 20:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) was given Windrider, on T:15715 20:29 <@rikersan> I mean, I guess I can get expert boomerang at least? 20:31 @Umby what are you trying to do? 20:32 wow, AntiGulp, that's going to be awesome stuff. 20:32 bouquet: Thanks! I’ve been a busy bee lately. 20:32 bzzzz 20:33 $1 to do the work. $1,000,000 to document it! 20:34 !role 20:34 NCommander: nethack4 monk 20:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) was given Giantslayer, on T:18761 20:34 <@Umby> @AntiGulp - nothing in particular outside of that one stupid skill table thing 20:34 Monks have an annoying endgame 20:34 <@Umby> I just try to fix stuff where possible 20:34 <@Umby> IT'S GOTTA BE KAEN 20:35 KAEN 20:36 I never had problems with kaen 20:37 It's the rest of the game that's painful 20:38 Monk is my favorite role. I don’t know how it is in NH4, though. 20:39 I might try it with a variant 20:40 !variant 20:40 NCommander: notdnethack 20:40 ... really RNG? 20:41 maybe evilhack monk 20:42 LOL 20:43 but you could be an illithianachronounbinder! 20:44 #technique is made for Monk. 20:49 [hdf-us] [evil] NCommander (Mon Elf Mal Cha) murdered Bait, his faithful little dog, on T:1083 20:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) was given the Fluorite Octahedron, on T:33545 20:59 [hdf-us] [evil] NCommander (Mon Elf Mal Cha), 1823 points, T:1884, killed by a dwarf 20:59 I forgot elfs have some major downsides in evilhack 21:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) was given the Vampire Killer, on T:34686 21:01 <@rikersan> that's what I was looking for :) 21:01 I found a ring f conflict room one 21:02 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 21:02 [hdf-us] [evil] NCommander (Mon Dwa Mal Law), 8 points, T:21, killed by imitating a meat popsicle 21:02 Ouch 21:03 That has to be one my fastest deaths ever 21:03 of all time 21:03 [hdf-us] [gh] karibou (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 1056 points, T:2455, zombified by a kobold zombie 21:03 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1122 points, T:1432, killed by a gnome lady 21:03 <@FIQ> ----> 21:03 <@FIQ> pointy 21:04 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 21:05 * NCommander however found a -2 helm of brillance and ided scroll of enchant armor 21:06 and a magic marker ... 21:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:37464 21:08 <@rikersan> a -2 helm of brilliance is just a knockoff dunce cap 21:08 flourite octahedron is interesting but I've never used it 21:09 Also now it is sleeps 21:09 nn 21:09 <@rikersan> it's wack 21:09 <@rikersan> !pom 21:09 @rikersan: The moon is waning crescent; new moon in 3 days. 21:09 <@rikersan> but night buubbles 21:10 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 3 points, T:53, killed by imitating a meat popsicle 21:10 <@FIQ> The moon is almost out of wax 21:11 <@FIQ> Needs a rewaxing soon 21:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:38090 21:15 <@FIQ> what if writing stuff with a marked forced a magical transfer of knowledge causing int drain 21:15 <@FIQ> instead of the marker itself having charges 21:15 <@FIQ> to nerf marker spam 21:16 <@FIQ> permanent int drain 21:16 <@FIQ> not restorable with restore ability 21:16 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Fem Cha), 1099 points, T:2071, killed by a baby owlbear 21:17 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) stole 336 zorkmids worth of merchandise from Sipaliwini's general store, on T:1027 21:17 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 204 points, T:1028, killed by a magic missile, while sleeping 21:20 <@FIQ> int drain being N (1-3 depending on what you're writing), blessed drains 1dN, uncursed N, cursed Nd2 21:22 <@malor> Antigulp what variant are you working on? 21:22 FIQ: speaking for the player base, that sounds awful 21:22 @malor she left, but splicehack 21:22 <@FIQ> AntiGulp maintains SpliceHack 21:23 <@FIQ> @aosdict You dislike it then? 21:25 yeah that idea wont go over well 21:25 that's basically an EPI 21:26 and tack onto that, INT is the only attribute that you cant exercise 21:26 <@FIQ> That was deliberate 21:26 yup 21:26 dont do it FIQ 21:26 <@FIQ> To avoid simply encouraging tedium instead 21:26 <@FIQ> Gain ability is a thing, you know 21:27 * K2 watches Amy read this thread and decides its a good idea to add to slex 21:27 hi amy! 21:27 fleecy! 21:27 <@FIQ> ha 21:27 :) 21:28 fiq you want this macbook pro 21:28 it doesnt have a numpad - i have to hate it whether i like it or not 21:32 <@FIQ> Sounds like a great computer 21:32 FIQ: I feel like, "marker spam" isn't really a thing. 21:32 Marker use is already quite limited by their rarity. 21:33 <@FIQ> hmm 21:34 <@FIQ> which reminds me 21:34 <@FIQ> I should make monsters use markers 21:34 <@rikersan> ""Burrrrp!" You have a sad feeling for a moment, then it passes." 21:35 <{Demo}2> sad 21:35 <@rikersan> RIP coatl, and with that I vacate the level PROMPTLY 21:36 <@rikersan> he did manage to bodyblock a nalfeshnee at least 21:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) genocided class c, on T:38135 21:36 <@FIQ> Dwarves should be able to sense nearby gold 21:37 <@FIQ> in walls etc 21:37 I tried implementing that, it did not go particularly well 21:37 <@FIQ> Why not? 21:37 possibly because I don't have a great handle on the display code 21:37 <@FIQ> mhm 21:38 <@FIQ> I figured, just give them xray 21:38 <@FIQ> for gold only 21:38 Oh, you mean dwarf *monsters*? 21:38 <@FIQ> The game has xray already 21:38 I meant the race. 21:38 <@FIQ> I meant dwarf race 21:38 <@FIQ> Dwarf monsters can already sense gold 21:39 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 1168 points, T:1363, killed by a magic missile 21:40 <@Umby> !lastgame dbanethacker 21:40 @Umby: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dbanethacker/evilhack/dumplog/1571879827.evil.html 21:40 <@FIQ> Dwarves should probably also detect monsters carrying stuff made of gold 21:41 <@FIQ> Xorns do this already in nethack4 21:41 <@Umby> YASI: Minetown Zoo but it's mostly just gold golems 21:41 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Con Hum Mal Cha), 8 points, T:138, killed by a bear trap 21:42 <@Umby> YASI: Dwarves always drink golden potions regardless of contents or beatitude 21:44 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 21:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Bar Inc Fem Cha) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:6934 21:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +5 silver dragon scale mail", on T:44104 21:45 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3708 21:45 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 3532 points, T:3712, killed by a rabid rat 21:48 Oracle gave me a bunch of spellbooks o_O; 21:49 YANI: dwarves should fight better and gain a temp boost to attack and hp when drunk 21:50 that's not a new idea. that's not even the first time you've said that idea 21:51 this is true 21:51 sometimes people have to be told the same thing more than once 21:51 <@FIQ> Monks in dnh do this iirc 21:51 ^ thats awesome 21:52 in UnNetHack, apparently monks get -1 AC while confused 21:52 'drunken monkey' 21:52 <@rikersan> dnh monks get a hella boost to AC when confused 21:52 ^^ 21:52 <@rikersan> and based on how much beer they've drank EVER 21:52 I think it's -1 21:53 <@rikersan> lvl 30 monk with 25 wis and having drunken at least 90 potions of booze in the game gets +24 AC when confused 21:54 Oh, wow 21:55 Assuming a player-side fear effect gets implemented, booze should provide immunity to fear effects for as long as the Confusion persists. <-- YANI 21:55 That's pretty drunk. 21:55 [hdf-us] [gh] karibou (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 173 points, T:863, killed by a dwarf 21:55 O 21:55 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) made her first wish - "2 blessed potions of full healing", on T:493 21:55 <@rikersan> dnh makes booze much more common though 21:55 <@rikersan> all dwarves outside the mines have a potion 21:55 I'm thinking of building Bustling Town or maybe Grotto Town in Minecraft. 21:55 Ah 21:55 <@rikersan> and since dwarves now have dwarven throne rooms occasionally... 21:55 <@rikersan> hella booze 21:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L13JhkI1_vY 21:55 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) wished for "2 blessed potions of extra healing", on T:494 21:56 Also, add drinking booze to monster AI as a defensive item, only usable while fleeing, which confuses them, but cancels their fleeing 21:56 <@rikersan> (also booze is much more nutritious, it's like 150ish so it's a pretty good foodstuff for vegans) 21:56 YANI II ^^ 21:56 drunk monsters immune to all forms of fear 21:57 it aint called 'liquid courage' for nothing 21:58 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 282 points, T:723, killed by becoming a döner kebab 21:58 aosdict, technically you can be scared by Magicbane or ghosts from temples or milky potions. 21:59 Does being scared by Magicbane do anything? 21:59 This is assuming a more fully fleshed out fear implementation. 21:59 Not just 3 turns paralysis. 21:59 It paralyzes you for 3 turns. 22:00 Unless you have magic resistance; then it doesn't do that. 22:00 Because 3 turns paralysis is hard to add as an effect (say a monster attack) without it being broken, and it also doesn't capture the 'flight response' very well 22:01 mm 22:01 I'm reminded of whichever variant makes it so that hitting a floating eye renders you incapable of hitting in melee for a while instead of being paralyzed 22:05 -!- alex___ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:05 <@rikersan> ... this lich cast curse items and the only thing that ended up cursed was my amulet versus curses (not worn) 22:05 <@rikersan> irony? 22:06 It caught the curse. 22:07 I don't like the amulet versus curses because when I put it on my game switches over to the tty windowport 22:07 thanks for reminding me, K2. I haven't had any liquid courage for a few days. Feeling cowardly. 22:09 Thankfully though, it's not an amulet versus ncurses. 22:10 what does this mean? "Brrooaa... You land hard at some distance." 22:11 is it a culture thing that I'm ignorant of? 22:12 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:7234 22:14 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7485 22:21 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1352 points, T:1363, caught herself in her own fireball 22:21 [hdf-us] [gh] karibou (Rog Ogr Mal Cha) had an athame bestowed upon him by Kos, on T:1777 22:22 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) polymorphed his first object, on T:8207 22:26 bouquet: The best explanation I've heard for that is that it's the sound of the engulfer vomiting you 22:30 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 904 points, T:3074, killed by a rothe 22:32 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 22:36 Sokoban frustates me to hell and back 22:37 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 118 points, T:706, killed by a giant spider 22:40 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 212 points, T:1145, killed by a small mimic 22:40 -!- tonehack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:42 <@Tone> NCommander: Just make sure you grab the amulet while you're down there 22:42 lol 22:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:52937 22:54 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 246 points, T:539, killed by a jumping spider 22:56 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:10807 22:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) was given their Quest, on T:53629 22:59 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 114 points, T:831, killed by a jumping spider 23:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:40970 23:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:41194 23:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed rustproof +2 Mjollnir", on T:1734 23:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) killed the Minion of Huhetotl, on T:55069 23:07 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Cha) became the Fire-bearer of Huhetotl, on T:55638 23:11 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 23:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] dragonspeaker (Brd Dro Mal Neu), 538 points, T:1531, killed by a brown mold 23:14 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1059 points, T:2192, killed by a jackal 23:22 Well I got this monk off the ground 23:22 Luckstone acquired, soko solved 23:24 <@rikersan> hey demo any stupid late-game clockwork cheeses? 23:28 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) averted death, on T:2239 23:33 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 478 points, T:1128, killed by a wand 23:36 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 158 points, T:445, killed by a sewer rat 23:47 Indecisive Green-elf in the soko zoo. He keeps switching between his bow and broadsword, but not moving. 23:47 endlessly 23:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) wished for "magic marker", on T:58621 23:49 Ok, got accepted to the quest 23:49 program in disorder :( 23:51 <@rikersan> !who 23:51 @rikersan: [hdf-us] Karnac [nh363] jonathanhanes [tnnt] dragonspeaker [dnh] rikersan [dnh] Hratt [evil] AntiVirus [evil] bouquet [spl] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 23:51 [hdf-us] [evil] Hratt (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 775 points, T:1833, killed by a rothe 23:51 there's some teleporting doppelganger in soko. He's hits and then teleports away. This is new. 23:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Sam Hum Fem Law), 2245 points, T:2244, killed by a cobra 23:55 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:9861 23:56 [hdf-us] [xnh] NCommander (Mon Hum Mal Law) averted death, on T:15476 23:56 That is an amazing way to find a "oLS 23:56 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought