00:04 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:34481 00:04 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:34482 00:07 luxidream: it occured to me to use fireball or cone of cold, but they were both long since forgotten. I slapped her around and she dropped it. 00:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed magic lamp", on T:34604 00:10 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1244 points, T:1589, killed by a killer bee, while praying 00:12 !who 00:12 K2: [hdf-us] bouquet [nh363] Ardub [xnh] | [hdf-eu] Vis [nh363] | [hdf-au] No current players 00:15 EvilHack updated (all servers) 00:15 ^ four bug fixes 00:16 gnite all 00:16 <@riker> night k2 00:16 \o 00:19 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 00:21 !ping 00:21 !ping 00:21 JonathanHanes: Pong! 00:36 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:40 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:43 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:54 -!- luxidream has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] jonathanhanes (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7721 01:15 K2: that does not work 01:15 FIQ: Message from K2 at 2019-10-16 22:23 EDT: look at https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/evilhack/k2.evilrc - search for 'hilite_status' its right there, my first 2 entries 01:15 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 01:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 01:16 this is what I have in my rc atm 01:16 #OPTIONS=hilite_status: hitpoints-max/gray/gray 01:16 OPTIONS=hilite_status: hitpoints/<6/orange/orange 01:16 if I uncomment the first line, it'll just be gray forever 01:16 similar if I don't have it 01:16 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 01:17 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:17 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 01:17 I want max hp to always have the same as current HP 01:17 which in turn depends on percentage or <=5 01:17 the fact that 2 colors are listed was my attempt at making it work, it didn't 01:18 I used to only have a single color defined 01:19 I also double checked by testing your setup 01:19 yes, maxHP is the same color at full HP but stays dark green when current HP goes down 01:19 which makes sense given the config 01:19 but this isn't what I want 01:29 i dont think there's any way to do that 01:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:2249 01:42 [hdf-us] [nh363] jonathanhanes (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:10363 01:42 [hdf-us] [nh363] jonathanhanes (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) chose a runed broadsword to be named "Orcrist", on T:10363 01:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bar Hlf Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:58493 01:49 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:1228 01:53 * Andrio wonders what the average number of sinks that can be found in a dungeon is. 01:55 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 01:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] jonathanhanes (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed fixed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:11236 01:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bar Hlf Mal Neu) destroyed Pestilence, on T:58781 01:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bar Hlf Mal Neu) destroyed Death, on T:58886 02:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Bar Hlf Mal Neu), 7153314 points, T:58933, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/m/malor/dnethack/dumplog/1571165805.dnh.txt 02:01 <@luxidream> congrats 02:01 <@luxidream> 😄 02:01 <@luxidream> !who 02:01 @luxidream: [hdf-us] Hill [nh363] jonathanhanes [nh363] AntiVirus [evil] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] djm2000 [nh363] 02:01 <@malor> thanks. 02:01 <@malor> It was a smooth game until the end-game and then it got pretty complex. 02:01 gg on the dnh ascension 02:02 :) 02:03 Congrats.~ 02:03 <@malor> I had to spend 2,500 turns waiting for forced levitation caused by an Uvuudum to expire! That was the scary time. 02:04 <@luxidream> try a sink next time 02:05 <@malor> what does a sink do in that case. In all my Vanilla and dnethack I have never touched a sink 🙂 02:05 if you float of a sink 02:05 it will make you sink 02:05 go figure 02:05 <@malor> ah. That's cool. I'm sure there was a sink around there somewhere. 02:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Arc Hum Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:30499 02:09 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Arc Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:30564 02:13 <@malor> my second time "streaking". 2 in a row. Not much of a streak, but for me it's quite an accomplishment. 02:17 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:26 !who 02:26 FIQ: [hdf-us] Hill [nh363] jonathanhanes [nh363] AntiVirus [evil] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 02:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] jonathanhanes (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:13632 02:31 my curses fixes was merged into vanilla 02:31 this most importantly means a fix for broken explosions and engulfing in DECgraphics 02:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Arc Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased partly eaten chickatrice corpse", on T:30809 02:34 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Arc Hum Mal Neu) killed Famine, on T:30825 02:36 go right 02:36 right is always right 02:36 1/3 of the time 02:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Arc Hum Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:30863 02:39 grand tour it is 02:41 -!- JDXY9 has joined #hardfought 02:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Arc Hum Mal Neu) killed Death, on T:30932 02:44 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 7986 points, T:5881, killed by a mastodon 02:44 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 28 points, T:23, killed by a newt 02:46 [misha] 02:46 <@Umby> Late congrats. @malor 02:46 <@malor> thanks. 02:49 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 02:49 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 1675366 points, T:30958, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/H/Hill/nethack/dumplog/1571125210.nh.html 02:50 mastadon from hell 02:50 who thinks up this stuff...mastadons 02:50 ;) 02:54 what the fucking boobie trapped TIN 02:54 lol 02:55 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 126 points, T:762, burned by an explosion 02:55 Booby-trapped tin. 02:55 Jezus man, even the TINs are dangerous in evilhack 02:55 That can happen if the tin is cursed. 02:55 in vanilla? 02:55 Yeah. 02:55 maybe I was never much of a tin eater, due to the troubles 02:55 greasy hands and stuff like that 02:55 And there's always cockatrice meat, too. 02:56 yeah but you get a chance to smell it right? 02:56 You do. 02:56 no that part hasn't been a problem 02:56 WO 02:56 lol 02:56 I'm floored, I've never had that death 02:56 Have a Nice Death.~ 02:57 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 11 points, T:40, poisoned by a giant spider 02:57 HAHA WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON TONIGHT 02:57 -!- u0_a257 has joined #hardfought 02:58 EvilHack. 02:58 First, a wand of create monster I was ID'ing goes off and summons a ton of out of depth monsters 02:58 a mastadon 02:58 that jacked me up, even though I managed to get away from all the others 02:58 yeah this thing is harsh 03:00 hey at least one thing about EvilHack makes sense and is easier 03:00 a wand of invisibility is not perminant 03:00 not even close 03:01 so now that means it's a usable escape item 03:01 -!- JDXY9 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02 <@Umby> Yeah perma-invis from wands was always kinda iffy 03:03 <@Umby> Legit no reason to use it more than once, and less than zero reason to use it over a cloak/ring 03:03 exactly 03:04 so since it only lasts a few turns in Evil, that makes it quite useful 03:04 FOR ROBBING LIKE A GANGSTA 03:04 lookout shopkeepers, here I come 03:04 or better yet, with invis scrolls 03:05 I mean teleport 03:07 seen trice tins a few times 03:08 have yet to mess up though 03:08 also eaten a trice egg once 03:08 same there 03:08 I have definitely been petrified by cockatrices, but never by eating it 03:11 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:19 -!- u0_a257 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6] 03:23 <@Umby> scrolls of invisibility 03:23 <@Umby> Imagine 03:23 <@Umby> Also I kinda just let my pet eat most eggs I find 03:23 <@Umby> though they avoid eating footrice eggs iirc 03:26 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 603 points, T:1487, killed by a little dog 03:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Cav Inc Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:770 03:32 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 295 points, T:852, killed by a jackal, while frozen by a trap 03:33 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 0 points, T:10, killed by a goblin 03:33 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 0 points, T:60, killed by a water moccasin, while vomiting 03:57 <@Umby> wyd 04:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] Merlek (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1133 points, T:2194, killed by a gnome lord 04:09 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Arc Dwa Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping a dwarvish cloak on an altar, on T:3000 04:14 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 789 points, T:2684, killed by a dwarf lord 04:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Arc Dwa Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:4677 04:44 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44 -!- joes has joined #hardfought 05:08 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 05:08 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 05:24 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 05:55 -!- vevais has quit [Quit: See you, space cowboy!] 06:07 -!- vevais has joined #hardfought 06:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] masterofpi (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 194 points, T:355, killed by a wand 06:48 <@luxidream> !who 06:48 @luxidream: [hdf-us] Hill [nh363] luxor [slshm] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] Andrio [slex] 07:24 <@Umby> Hi Luxi 07:25 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 07:30 -!- vevais has quit [Quit: See you, space cowboy!] 07:31 -!- vevais has joined #hardfought 07:32 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Hea Gno Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:8332 07:35 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:45 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 08:00 morning 08:00 o/ 08:00 <{Demo}2> morning 08:01 i can calm down a bit now 08:02 get here at work, i notice the server room sounds louder than normal 08:02 open the door, its over 90° F in there 08:02 AC shutdown 08:02 instantly go into WTF mode 08:02 <@Umby> Hey, guys 08:03 45 min prior someone killed the breaker to the AC units building wide because its chilly out 08:03 hahaha 08:03 happy thursday morning! 08:03 heya @Umby 08:04 :o 08:04 <@Umby> Sheesh lmao 08:04 <@Umby> Disaster averted at least? 08:04 yeah 08:04 you get above 100° F then really bad things start to happen 08:05 most of these servers will auto shutdown if it gets too hot though so thats good 08:05 *most* 08:06 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:06 <@Umby> That's good, sorta 08:06 heh 08:07 we have a couple older boxes that we have to keep 08:10 <@Umby> Hm 08:10 <@Umby> Decided to get to work on some wiki stuff 08:11 i saw 08:11 Umbire the Phantom 08:11 <@Umby> Anything in particular you want I might help with? 08:11 <@Umby> Mhm 08:12 oh... no I dont. I need to update the evilhack page, especially now that 0.4 is out with new stuff 08:12 but thats on me 08:12 i've done some already 08:23 -!- bubbles_nhw has joined #hardfought 08:23 <@Umby> I need to do some dNet stuff, I recall promising someone I'd help with that 08:23 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:23 <@Umby> Or something similar 08:23 Any new stuff I should know re: wishing in vanilla 3.6 versus old vanilla? 08:24 <@Umby> Not that I know of, no 08:25 So pretty much just SDSM/cloak of mres? 08:25 Maybe grayswandir 08:26 <@Tone> MC was rebalanced but that isn't as big of a deal as you might think 08:26 <@Tone> So you won't get MC3 from that CoMR 08:28 Ah ok so maybe SDSM and magic mirror of merlin so I can go cloak of prot? 08:31 <@Umby> Oh you mean wishes for your character? 08:31 <@Umby> I don't think there'd be any major changes, still heavily dependent on your situation to begin with 08:32 XL 3 08:32 what role? 08:32 dwarf valk, already found strength hands 08:32 mmom sounds good 08:32 mmom + sdsm + [oProt 08:32 Ace, thanks! :-) 08:32 solid build with slotless MR and MC3 08:32 Still 4d10 blasting? 08:32 and then just exca as your weapon 08:33 Until the Wizard steals it. 08:33 you will get one blast from the mmom 08:33 The wiz won't steal 08:33 he will 08:33 He will? 08:33 well he usually doesn't 08:33 but he might 08:33 I thought he only stole MY arti? 08:33 but it hasn't happened to me yet 08:33 He stole the Master Key of Thievery twice 08:33 <@Umby> He can steal all quest artifacts now lol 08:33 Ahh 08:33 no, thats a very controversial change 08:33 I had to opposite alignment helm again just to pick it up each time 08:33 I think it's a good one 08:33 <@FIQ> K2: didn't read what you said at first but saw AC and figured you was talking about armor class 08:34 <@Umby> You'll just be carrying MMoM on hand so you only get the one blast 08:34 Yeah 08:34 Will the mres come before the blast or after I wonder 08:34 Shouldn't matter I'm a big boy 08:34 FIQ heh 08:34 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Hea Gno Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:10805 08:34 i see devteam merged your pull request 08:34 <@Umby> It's a mirror lol 08:35 <@Umby> +3 won't affect anything but it's not needed 08:35 Habit! 08:35 its a +3 mirror 08:35 of excellence 08:35 I can hit vlad with it 08:35 That's bad luck.. 08:35 So, on reflection, you didn't need it to be +3? 08:35 <@Umby> It won't break but that's still a terrible idea 08:35 <@Umby> even without Vlad's buffs 08:35 Nice pink 08:36 I'll probs save the other wishes 08:36 For now 08:36 <@Umby> And yes magic resistance will reduce artifact blasting 08:36 <@Umby> 4d10 normally, 2d10 with MR according to the wiki 08:36 I don't think you have that until after you've been blasted though. 08:36 Aye 08:37 <@Umby> Yeah 08:37 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:37 <@Umby> In any event just make sure you're well clear of trouble prior to wishing for blasty stuff 08:38 <@Umby> Just as a guide 08:38 Aye 08:39 ffs a kobold just scoll of earthed me in sokoban 08:39 Bye bye luck 08:40 Not that I can complain!! 08:43 <@Umby> Just let your luck timeout if you're worried it'll impact you down the line 08:43 <@Umby> Put away any luckstones you might have unless they're blessed 08:44 <@Umby> Remember that it times out on every 600th turn, as opposed to every 600 turns 08:45 <@Umby> (i.e. if you lose some luck on turn 9500-something, one point of it times out at turn 9600) 08:46 Ah ok 08:47 This is handy to know but it is strictly better than "every 600 turns" so proceeding as if the latter was true won't hurt 08:48 <@Umby> Yeah, it shouldn't hurt most of the time 08:48 what the cuss, just found a blessed magic lamp 08:49 you seem to be lucky 08:49 <@Umby> Don't look the gift horse in the mouth 08:49 <@Umby> save it for a rainy day 08:49 I also found a saddle 08:49 are you german umby? 08:49 <@Umby> Non 08:49 <@Umby> I just pick up a lot of phrases 08:49 i know that saying as a german saying 08:50 'dont look in the mouth of the gifted horse' 08:50 <@Umby> I knew it as supposedly Greek in origin 08:50 Both are common expressions auf Englisch 08:50 ah 08:50 <@Umby> Which, not mutually exclusive 08:50 <@Umby> Ye 08:50 it rhymes in german 08:50 Greek> isn't that maybe confusion with the Trojan horse? 08:50 'einem geschenkten Gaul schaut man nicht in Maul' 08:51 timeo danaos et dona ferentes 08:51 I'm intrigued by the idea of saving the gift horse for a rainy day. What, shelter under it? 08:51 ^ 'i fear the greeks bearing gifts' 08:51 i fear the greeks, even when they bring gifts' 08:51 as a reference to the illiad 08:52 Although oddly almost always "beware of Greeks bearing gifts" in English 08:52 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeo_Danaos_et_dona_ferentes 08:53 <@Umby> Neat 08:54 its not the same meaning though 08:54 the horse one is 'be happy with the gifts you get and don't expect anything' 08:55 and the greek one is 'be weary of people who are too nice to you' :P 08:55 actually its the opposite, right 08:55 laocoon wanted to look into the mouth of the horse 08:55 anyway.. 08:57 <@Umby> I actually mentioned the wiki thing earlier in the hopes that someone might follow behind me and correct any bits I might've missed 08:57 I check most recent edits but nothing stood out 08:59 unless its about artifact weapons :P 08:59 <@Umby> lol 09:00 !who 09:00 K2: [hdf-us] Hill [nh363] samiam [nh363] Bartlem [nh363] | [hdf-eu] bubbles [nh363] AlbertB [nh363] | [hdf-au] Tangles [nh363] 09:00 not patching anything yet hah 09:02 bhaak, isn't weed legal in switzerland 09:03 <{Demo}2> it's not legal in the kingdom of god 09:03 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 09:06 stennowork: no. but a higher tolerance and therefore less strict persecution than in Germany 09:08 <@FIQ> @bhaak how likely do you think DT would be to be willing to implement an extension, or possibly a complement, to symbols in the form of fully fledged text-based tileset possibility? 09:09 ..... 09:09 You see here a long sword named Fire Brand. 09:09 Seriously 09:09 <@FIQ> as a replacement for what we had in 3.4.3 with MONSTERCOLOR but with all glyphs in the game 09:11 <@Umby> Dude 09:11 <@Umby> Don't question your good luck 09:11 <@Umby> Sometimes you just get something like the Vorpal Blade off a rando in the mines 09:11 And sometimes you just get offed by a rando wielding a VB! 09:12 @FIQ I have the latest devteam commits merged with 363-hdf (and soon evilhack) 09:12 <@Umby> Exactly 09:12 cant patch yet :) 09:12 <@Umby> The worst you can do is count chickens before they hatch 09:12 @FIQ a "text-based tileset" and "MONSTERCOLOR" is not quite the same to me. do you want to do change the GUI tileset or the characters that make up monsters and objects in terminal (and possibly other display attributes)? 09:14 bhaak, mmp noted 09:14 then i must have misremembered 09:14 <@Umby> oh boy, chameleon on last floor of soko 09:14 <@Umby> that'll be fun 09:14 <@Umby> already turning into purple worm lol 09:15 !who 09:15 K2: [hdf-us] Hill [nh363] samiam [nh363] Bartlem [nh363] | [hdf-eu] bubbles [nh363] | [hdf-au] Tangles [nh363] 09:16 <@Umby> rat bastard 09:16 <@Umby> turned yellow D and fucked up my battle axe 09:16 <@Umby> good thing I'm overdue for cleaver anyway 09:17 EvilHack updated (all servers) 09:18 ^ latest devteam commits 09:19 ah the underpants gnomes are finally in vanilla 09:20 verbl_msg = (gnomeplan == 1) ? "Phase one, collect underpants." 09:20 : "Phase three, profit!"; 09:20 <@FIQ> @bhaak the latter 09:25 <@Umby> dead to leocrotta 09:25 <@Umby> felt the run was going south anyway 09:25 <{Demo}2> the what 09:25 <{Demo}2> ah 09:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 424 points, T:1800, killed by a gas spore's explosion 09:38 <@Umby> gj 09:46 !who 09:46 K2: [hdf-us] Hill [nh363] samiam [nh363] Bartlem [nh363] zoya [nh363] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 09:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1675 09:46 got eu and au 09:47 prob wont be able to update 363-hdf on hdf-us until later tonight 09:47 blah 09:47 i dont like asking players to save and exit unless its a critical bug fix (latest commits arent that) 09:48 <{Demo}2> I still like the idea of lagging them out slowly so they choose to exit :P 09:48 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought 09:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris__ANG] by ChanServ 09:50 spawn the riders telling them to save and exit 09:52 "Why do all my scrolls of mail contain death threats?" 09:52 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:5514 09:52 Then they won't be on the Astral Plane any more 09:53 who says they wont? 09:53 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by The Lady, on T:4102 09:54 the code for unique monsters 09:55 unfortunately (?) this is not possible in 3.6 anymore 09:55 back on desktop 09:55 K2: cool, thanks 09:55 so whats the riders behaviour when you change dungeon level? 09:56 bhaak: what do you mean with the former? 09:56 alex___, same as with any other monster 09:56 several windowports, including GUI ones, have a "text" tileset which shows the textual output 09:57 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 378 points, T:1395, killed by a small mimic 09:57 I was merely thinking the possibility of extending this into proper tileset options which rely on text instead of graphics as "glyphs" 09:57 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 13806 points, T:6026, killed by an Olog-hai 09:57 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1499 points, T:2879, killed by a hill orc 09:58 which would also work on servers or terminal play with tty or non-GUI curses windowport (it at least used to have a GUI option, no idea if this part made it into 3.6.x) 09:59 hmm, patr found a bug 09:59 curses gets a lot of love lately 09:59 apparently DECgraphics and IBMgraphics options (the old ones from 3.4.3 that is) works differently in the code 09:59 {Demo}2 anytime there's an update to any of the includes, you dont want to patch on top of a running game 09:59 confusing my new code 09:59 so it ignores it in favour of showing a curses symset default 10:00 <{Demo}2> k2 if u make them lag enough they'll save and exit on their own 10:02 never run a public server for other ppl to use {Demo}2. ever 10:03 but why is that a problem in the first place? 10:03 don't you have the parallel version thingy 10:04 only for new versions. this is patching the same version 10:04 not save breaking 10:04 i see 10:05 but i've learned the hard way, dont patch over a running game if any of the includes changed 10:05 thats a bit annoying 10:06 is what it is 10:06 i have eu and au 363-hdf updated 10:06 just need to wait on hdf-us :P 10:06 -!- Chris__ANG is now known as Chris_ANG 10:06 <{Demo}2> it wouldn't be good, but it would be funny 10:06 {Demo}2 you make me sad 10:06 Oh something changed 10:06 ? 10:07 {Demo}2 makes everyone happy! 10:07 bubbles_nhw just some bugfixes from devteam 10:07 Oh a new symset too 10:07 FIQ: the former sounded like a GUI tileset with letters for characters, possibly procedurally generated 10:07 K2: You could always set up a system to queue updates and automatically apply them as soon as no games are active. 10:08 If everything is fully automated, then you know nothing can possibly go wrong! 10:08 <{Demo}2> k2 I have nethack server but it only has ndnh alpha on it 10:08 <{Demo}2> if u wanna go play an old broken version of ndnh it's still up 10:09 jonadab lol 10:10 FIQ: I'm not sure how other DT member would react to it. I haven't experienced the slaughtering of a holy cow like changing the color of the floating eye, yet. probably best to just ask the group. 10:10 bhaak: if you do decide to change floating eye color, cyan > brightgreen 10:11 IF FATFINGER YASDS WERE GOOD ENOUGH FOR MY GRANDPARENTS THEY'RE GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME 10:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu) had Frost Brand bestowed upon her by The Lady, on T:5593 10:11 https://imgur.com/a/FXvklDX 10:11 10:11 lol lorimer 10:11 dont fucking change my floating eye! 10:11 <@Umby> and that's why you open doors from the side when you can 10:11 <{Demo}2> the paranoid lawn patch 10:12 Aside from floating eyes, there could be a mumak behind that door. 10:12 get off my damn lawn 10:12 It took that many bites to make you feverish? 10:12 was lucky 10:12 Mm 10:12 <@Umby> I mean, not lucky enough to not die 10:12 Apart from that they died. 10:13 It is pitch dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue. 10:13 It is pitch dark. That is because you are asleep... 10:13 ^H^H^H^Hwererat 10:13 It is pitch dark. You are now wearing a blindfold. 10:13 What variant is that by the way? 10:13 jonadab: i'm kicking around the idea of adding the dev/null gruw to evilhack (modified) 10:14 *grue 10:14 why you might ask? because... its evil 10:14 E-VEEL 10:14 bag contains a cursed -1 CoMR 10:14 Andrio: nethack4 10:14 Waht does the dev/null grue do? 10:14 kills you dead 10:15 jonadab: eats adventurers. duh. 10:15 If you spend more than about 3 turns in the darkness, it eats you? 10:15 I mean, in Zork, the grue eats you if you move from one dark location to another dark location. 10:15 yup 10:15 And you die instantly 10:15 krystal added that to dev/null, was a challenge you could accept or ignore 10:15 But in NetHack, that would make the game quite thorougly unplayable. 10:15 *gh 10:16 you enter a dark room, if you have no light source you had about 3 turns to find light or get out 10:16 unless we had a much more prominent light situation 10:16 All the corridors are dark in NetHack, though. 10:16 if i recall, in the original dev/null, doing anything counted as a turn, so checking your inventory was a no-no 10:16 <{Demo}2> did entering a dark room interrupt travel? 10:16 You wouldn't be able to leave the start room until you find a light source. 10:16 <{Demo}2> wtf 10:16 tangles fixed that for the dev/null tribute 10:17 <{Demo}2> this sounds terrible 10:17 jonadab it wasnt corridors, just rooms 10:17 I believe it did not. 10:17 K2: Ah. 10:17 Ghastly bugs are kind of traditional for /dev/null tournament challenges (particularly ones that interfere in games not trying to play with the challenge) 10:17 That could still, potentially, make even the first dungeon level untraversible. 10:17 potentially yeah 10:17 start in a dark room. oops 10:18 so would arch liches. the solution is to spawn them later :) 10:18 Bonus points if you start in a dark doom. 10:18 Potentially a goblin with a wand could, too, though 10:18 Firebrand doesn't protect against my stuff getting burned???? 10:19 No resistance save reflection protects your inventory 10:19 EPI: wielding Firebrand does fire damage to everything in your inventory. 10:19 Every turn. 10:19 <@Umby> You want fire resistance, get a ring P: 10:19 including damage to you 10:19 <@Umby> Or eat the appropriate corpses 10:20 <@Umby> Don't assume artifacts cover every base 10:20 only valks get to assume that 10:20 <@Umby> he's playing a valk rn LOL 10:20 why? 10:20 :D 10:20 <@Umby> alternately, stash fire hazard items in a container 10:21 have you had proper hazmat training? 10:21 <@Umby> does gresae protect against burning armor? 10:21 <@Umby> grease* 10:21 <{Demo}2> do containers work to test fake amulet? 10:21 <@Umby> yes demo 10:21 <@Umby> the real amulet can't be put in 10:21 https://www.oglaf.com/hot-cold-steel/ # WS, although the rest of Oglaf is NSFW 10:21 fake ones should refuse too :( 10:21 Slightly EPI: a paper bag. It works like a sack, but if it's affected by fire anything in it that's vulnerable to fire gets destroyed, and anything not spills onto the ground. 10:22 Andrio: also breaks if it gets wet 10:22 <@Umby> fake ones are cheap non-magical plastic imitations 10:22 Yep. 10:22 <@Umby> also low container space 10:22 <@Umby> e.g. if picking up the bag would result in being burdened or more, it has a chance to rip 10:23 Maybe you can put it on your head like a blindfold. 10:23 And then you can fight your way out of a wet paper bag. 10:24 f - a cheap plastic imitation of a paper bag. You feel guilty about using single-use plastics! 10:24 A plastic bag lands in the water. You kill the giant eel! 10:24 :( 10:25 lol aosdict 10:25 pls no pollution 10:25 actually pestilence should be pollution like in good omens 10:25 we're already dipping all kinds of potions into it though 10:26 <{Demo}2> what if water could become polluted with potions 10:26 i just want to have a place where i don't constantly have to think of the imminent destruction of the world 10:26 Is killing cross-aligned priests naughty? 10:26 of the world ecosystem 10:26 right.. sorry. 10:26 bubbles_nhw, yes 10:26 ... I suspect leaving the dungeon littered with thousands of decomposing corpses won't do much for the water supply 10:27 pfft 10:27 As long as they aren't the ones in special levels that start off hostile. 10:27 drop of iodine, you're fine 10:27 the corpses just vanish 10:27 Okey dokey 10:27 * stennowork tries to make a poor joke with ANSI-C and 'garbage collection' but cannot think of anything witty 10:27 The dungeons have a monster in them that destroys harmful microbes. One of the F probably. 10:27 Gelatinous cubes? 10:28 Oh, possibly. 10:28 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Murder only if you aren't Chaotic or you somehow are short of alignment 10:29 <@riker> bubbles can you malpas? 10:29 <@riker> *malphas 10:30 riker this is vanilla 10:30 I have a promising orc Binder growing nicely in dnh 10:30 But at work so really just mucking around while waiting for crap to build/run etc. 10:30 My dnh suicides are intentional not due to lack of focus! 10:30 Well, bit of both actually 10:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 299 points, T:1403, killed by a giant rat 10:34 aosdict: why is cyan > bright green? 10:34 lime on hotpink is the contrast of doom 10:37 https://jsfiddle.net/6kqbLv5m/1/ 10:40 if you could see fleecy, what color would it be? 10:40 * K2 waits for it... 10:40 who pinged me? 10:40 LarienTelrunya: Message from AntiGulp at 2019-10-16 20:03 EDT: Because tiles make a variant more accessible, and because I like pixelart :) 10:40 What are these "colours" of which you speak? 10:40 \o/ 10:40 fleecy fleecy fleecy 10:41 fleeeeeeecy! 10:41 joke i told my kid (she's 7) and loves it - if you could see a burp, what color would it be? BURPLE 10:41 LOL 10:44 LarienTelrunya, see the fleecyness https://jsfiddle.net/6kqbLv5m/1/ 10:44 yay fleecy-colored text! ♄ 10:44 aaaarrrggghhh my eyes! 10:45 the fonic color scheme was insane 10:45 \o> 10:45 it was such a novelty back then, but it has proven to be ground-breaking 10:45 https://www.onlinekosten.de/bilder/fonic_0201w1000_6524.png 10:46 absolutely insane imo 10:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu) had Trollsbane bestowed upon her by The Lady, on T:8896 10:46 so i'm in this 'bomb cyclone' 10:47 ^ weather phenomenon 10:47 (sp) 10:47 ASDKLJASLKDJASD 10:47 oh did you lose power again 10:47 hopefully i still have power 10:47 haha 10:47 What the cuss. 10:47 There was a corpse on the altar of a dwarf (zombie) 10:47 you really should improve your infrastructure at some point 10:47 hdf-us is no longer in my basement so \o/ 10:47 And I tried to sac something from my inventory on "Y" 10:47 But "Y" sacced the corpse :'( 10:48 FR: paranoid_sacrifice 10:48 You see here a SLASH'EM interface. It prompts you to hit , to access stuff on the ground... 10:50 I know 10:50 I love the slashem interface for that 10:50 the slashem interface is soooooo much better than vanilla's in every single way :P 10:50 it's almost as if slashem was the true vanilla 10:51 Phew mollified 10:52 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Hea Gno Fem Neu) killed Medusa, on T:16082 10:52 bhaak: cyan is a more realistic eye color (and maintains the blueish thing) than vivid green 10:52 [hdf-us] [nh4] essillia (hackedhead) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 37388 points, T:5772, killed by a rabid rat, while sleeping 10:54 aosdict: that's a valid argument, although I chose bright green due to the warning aspect of that color. bright green is underused in vanilla and is dangerous in unnethack. 10:55 * K2 starts the 'NetHackers For Dark Blue' movement 10:56 hell no we wont go! 10:56 EPI for Evilhack: floating eyes should just be a blank tile, like ghosts. 10:56 * K2 changes floating eye symbol to S_GHOST 10:56 lol LarienTelrunya 10:56 beat me to it 10:56 ninja'd! 10:57 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Dwa Mal Neu), 0 points, T:2, zapped himself with a wand 10:57 owie 10:58 bhaak: It seems too indicative of poison or radioactivity or whatever to me 10:58 aosdict: EPI: floating eyes also have a poison gaze attack. 10:59 (Juiblex and lichens are bright green) 10:59 equally dangerous 10:59 heh. 11:01 aosdict: yes. DANGER! 11:03 EPI: death lichen. Looks like a regular lichen, but has a touch of death attack. 11:04 coming soon to an slex near you 11:04 Andrio: and medusa, and green-elves 11:04 <{Demo}2> epi random F monster that when u accidentally bump into and kill it summons a megaboss 11:05 {Demo}2: you mean like Moldoux? 11:05 <{Demo}2> yes exactly like moldoux 11:05 <{Demo}2> but we call it what it is, evil 11:07 Oops 11:07 Since when did the watch get angry with me attacking peacefuls? 11:07 <{Demo}2> 3.6 11:07 since 3.6 11:07 Ugh 11:07 bubbles_nhw: are you playing a variant? 11:08 Nah relaxing in vanilla 11:08 not just the watch, any peaceful 11:08 You missed an epic fail last night 11:08 I tried to kill dnh demogorgon 11:08 <{Demo}2> it was really funny 11:08 peacefuls don't get angry in vanilla when you hit other peacefuls... 11:08 After smashing every other demon lord 11:08 there is, however, a variant (called 3.6 :P) where they do 11:08 amy, in 3.6 they certainly do 11:08 yeah I just said that 11:08 i just said that 11:09 3.6 is not a variant 11:09 -!- Muad has left #hardfought 11:09 <{Demo}2> the anti 3.6 defamation league 11:09 -!- Muad has joined #hardfought 11:09 also, patch 1.10 is a mod of Diablo 2 :P 11:09 1.10 was nice 11:09 calling 3.6.x a variant is like saying slex is fair and balanced 11:09 wasn't that the thing where you could re-assign skill points 11:09 <@Umby> :GWmemetownOMEGALUL: 11:10 what, are you trying to imply slex wasn't balanced? (unfair I'd admit it is) 11:10 <@Umby> But yeah you kinda don't wanna attack peacefuls at random anyway unless you're certain you can get away with it lmao 11:10 <@Umby> now, if you angered one by accident then that's entirely different 11:10 i'm not implying anything. i'm saying it 11:10 :D 11:10 stennowork: that was the "lol we don't care about the game anymore" patch, 1.13 or 1.14 or something 11:10 ah lol 11:11 I was happy to call 3.6 a variant because it lacked a ton of things I considered somewhat critical to sane play 11:11 they *really* made it so that you'd permanently lose the skill points you got from quests if you reassigned them 11:11 3.6.0 that is 11:11 and had a few ridiculous changes to make up for it 11:11 that certainly makes things easier 11:11 such as no trinsics from puddings for whatever reason, a really harsh speed randomization, and a weird Elbereth nerf 11:12 just because you dont like certain changes doesnt make an official release a variant 11:12 lol 11:12 so much crazy going on in here today 11:12 and to compensate for that, we got: no statuscolors, no hitpointbar, no curses windowport 11:12 That reason was a bug, and 3.6.1 fixed it 11:12 for once I have to agree with FIQ 11:13 basically everything that every single 3.4.3 variant -- including nao -- had to fix UI silliness 11:13 3..6.0 was a regression 11:13 but then everything went good 11:13 I was very unhappy with 3.6.0 11:13 me too 11:13 Things improved, though 11:13 after the first few days of hype 11:13 I think saying vanilla 3.6.0 was a variant because it didn't have things that weren't in vanilla 3.4.3 is a little perverse 11:13 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 11:13 Pinkbeast: Sure, in hindsight it makes no sense 11:13 also we already leaked the dev code so we knew how it would look like 11:14 3.6.1/2/3 continued where 3.6.0 left off and kept making things even worse! 11:14 but I was unwilling to acknowledge 3.6.0 as vanilla 11:14 with how lacking it was 11:14 if the dev team releases it, it's not a variant. it's insane to use any other definition 11:14 in good UI 11:14 <@Umby> yeah, no one's exactly clamoring for 3.6.0 apologism but "variant" is a pretty :GWbowsuBlobThonkeng: word for it 11:14 <{Demo}2> what if NH4 is the real vanilla 11:14 hothraxxa: oh sure, I *knew* it wasn't a variant 11:14 <@Umby> it's just yet another episode of "they changed it now it sucks" 11:14 but I didn't want to hear it 11:14 because I was very unhappy with it 11:14 <@Umby> despite all the attempts to dress it as otherwise 11:15 <@Umby> complete with fancy shoes and everything 11:15 3.6.1+ made everything better IMO 11:15 <{Demo}2> slashem is the real vanilla 11:15 every variant exists because someone wasn't happy with the dev team release 11:15 I mean, there's still some 3.6 changes I disagree with 11:15 <@luxidream> >shoes 11:15 @Umby: 3.6 doesn't have high heels, so it can't be vanilla! :P 11:15 but at least I can play it :P 11:15 without resorting to InterHack 11:15 for my UI fix 11:16 which I did during the last devnull tournament 11:16 which ran 3.6.0 11:16 + the devnull stuff 11:16 <@Umby> adapting to the E word changes in particular was a bit tricky, but it helped me refine my playstyle a fair bit 11:17 my problem with E change in 3.6.0 isn't that it was nerfed 11:17 but the way it was nerfed 11:17 it might as well have been removed alltogether 11:17 for all the good it did 11:17 which would've been a better change IMO 11:17 rather than what they had 11:17 <@Umby> yeah that was whew 11:18 i removed it from my game long anyway 11:18 -long 11:18 I'd rather have 3.6.0's Elbereth nerf than what they have changed it to in later versions... 11:18 what i mean is, you can play without it and still ascend 11:18 why? 11:18 * Pinkbeast mutters "undo all the nerfs; one use per game" 11:18 @ LarienTelrunya 11:18 <@Umby> waits for it 11:19 I never use elbereth 11:19 FIQ: the 3.6.0 nerf was pretty good, it made it so that it was nowhere near as overpowered as it used to be 11:19 ^^^ 11:19 it was made to basically be worthless 11:19 I never have but if it was once per game I'd have no problem with it 11:19 I don't mind this, except it makes it so there's little sense to keep it around in first place 11:19 yeah then they added scrolls of scare monster which were (are) way more powerful 11:19 I'd rather have it be near-worthless than overpowered 11:19 <@luxidream> FIQ: in 3.6.0 you could burn it and still have a reasonable chance at attacking from it 11:19 I don't like the new scare monster 11:20 i don't use those either 11:20 too powerful 11:20 works on too many things 11:20 <{Demo}2> the new SM is weird 11:20 including stuff it has no business working on 11:20 <@Umby> I can't say I prefer the new E word but the fact you can lean on it works for me, as I feel it encourages me to plan ahead more often 11:20 such as uniques 11:20 or *pets* 11:20 <@Umby> scare monster is just busted though 11:21 <@Umby> I like it but it's busted 11:21 hi master kaen. boo! 11:21 FIQ: exactly! why would it suddenly work on peaceful monsters, but still only if you stand on it? makes absolutely no sense whatsoever 11:21 I've considered asking DT to nerf it 11:22 almost feels like it's an unintentional bug, like they changed something and then failed to playtest their change :P 11:22 I'm sure people would be happy with me if I somehow convinced them to 11:22 which I doubt, but still 11:22 <{Demo}2> i like it being OP 11:22 <{Demo}2> cause im bad 11:22 LarienTelrunya: you're gonna like this: https://twitter.com/EtiennePinchon/status/1184386900934742017 11:22 <{Demo}2> and i can abuse it 11:22 they seem way more trigger happy when it comes to player nerfing changes 11:22 <@Umby> If anything, fix it so peaceful/tame mons aren't spooked 11:23 bhaak: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM! *bĂŒschelbĂŒschelbĂŒschelflauschelflauschelflauschel* ♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄♄ 11:23 so you won't know it if you stand on it in a shop 11:23 <@Umby> ...are you okay? 11:23 or maybe I can try to invoke their trigger of opposites 11:23 <@Umby> oh right, that's exactly how I find it in shops lmao 11:23 <@Umby> hmmm 11:23 mention in passing that it doesn't work on bosses which seems reasonable and then proceed to complain on it working on tame and peaceful monsters 11:24 <3<3<3 *Flau-sche-bĂŒ-schel!* (Such-a-flee-cy-bunnnnnn-dle!) 11:24 <@Umby> if you're insinuating that be kept as a means to avoid picking it up and racking up debt for the pile of dust 11:24 cue DT removing it working on bosses ASAP 11:24 <@Umby> then hm 11:24 bhaak: is there a way to download the fleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeecy bundle? 11:25 <@Umby> oh, sams can perform better with divination spells 11:26 LarienTelrunya: when in doubt, youtube-dl can download it. just a minute 11:26 <@Umby> nice, I haven't noticed since it's been a while from the last sam I played 11:26 <@Umby> but yeah, hmm 11:27 it is a bueschel but it is not neccessarily flauschig 11:27 LarienTelrunya: https://bhaak.net/nethack/flauschel_bauschel.mp4 11:27 lol 11:27 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 11:27 hat filename 11:28 <@Umby> so what suggestions would there be for a reasonable SM nerf besides "don't have it work on nemeses 11:29 bhaak: YESSSSSSSSSSS ♄♄♄♄♄♄♄ <3 <3 <3 you're now my BFF forever and for always! *fleecelfleecelfleecelbundlebundlebundle* <3 <3 <3 11:29 <@Umby> would some sort of "reduced" effect be plausible in general or no 11:29 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:31 hm. i was wrong about not using scare monster. i sometimes drop one on the plane of water and just wait for the portal to float by 11:31 i forgot that 11:31 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had a stone orcish dagger entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:58089 11:31 apparently explicit is a keyword in C++? 11:31 <{Demo}2> does that work in evil? 11:32 w/e, Windows did not like my last commit according to travis 11:32 sure 11:32 guess I'll rename this... 11:33 evil water elementals are engulfers so you don't really want to engage them 11:33 and now there are sea dragons 11:33 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 912 points, T:2091, killed by a small mimic 11:34 toughest small mimic ever 11:35 <@Umby> RIP 11:35 i had a small mimic in fiqhack that i swore was the toughest ever 11:36 i thought, oh good, fh is 3.4.3 based so i'll just kite this sucker 11:36 can someone tell me what happened here? https://travis-ci.com/NetHack/NetHack/jobs/246729470 11:36 I decided to call a struct field "explicit" 11:36 so i did. for about 60 turns, hitting him almost every time 11:36 I didn't get any issues when compiling and testing so I sent a PR to vanilla 11:37 Windows was not happy (according to travis) 11:37 then i remembered that i was an arc wielding a whip, and mimics are tough skinned :( 11:37 hothraxxa: so you were doing 1 damage per turn 11:37 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37 or something? 11:37 not sure how that works 11:37 https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/explicit 11:38 no, a whip can't damage togh skin 11:38 also, FIQHack monsters get player-style hp regen 11:38 that's reserved specifier 11:38 so you might not actually have done anything 11:38 bhaak: but this is C 11:38 exactly 11:38 and why didn't linux complain? 11:38 FIQ: cppregex.cpp 11:38 it started in a shop, which is why i was using the whip, and i forgot to switch once i got it outside 11:38 that's only compiled on windows, for reasons I don't remember 11:39 ah 11:39 something about linking microsoft stdlib regexp engine? 11:42 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) averted death, on T:58294 11:42 I thought PR#234 was going to allow customization of ray colors 11:43 I was disappointed to find out that this was not the case 11:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Hea Gno Fem Neu) made her first wish - "the blessed greased fixed Eye of the Aethiopica", on T:16861 11:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) rejected atheism by offering a giant bat corpse on an altar of Anhur, on T:3674 11:47 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 11:52 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 11:53 -!- jonathanhanes_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:53 !oink 11:54 SQUEAL LIKE A PIG WHEN YOU BIG FUCKIN' 11:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Hea Gno Fem Neu) wished for "2 blessed greased fixed scrolls of charging", on T:16863 11:55 lol 11:55 no deftones love? 11:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Hea Gno Fem Neu) wished for "blessed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:16867 11:56 -!- bubbles_nhw has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57 <@Umby> https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Close&curid=13694&diff=128719&oldid=68966 11:57 <@Umby> p. gd sure I can do more than this but nothing comes to mind 11:58 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 cloak of protection", on T:37430 12:00 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:4233 12:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo2 (Arc Clk Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2035 12:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:5886 12:02 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:7940 12:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Hea Gno Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Hermes, on T:17127 12:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo2 (Arc Clk Fem Neu), 3877 points, T:2748, disintegrated by overwinding 12:12 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on Dlvl:40, on T:37634 12:12 you know what winds my gears? 12:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:37653 12:13 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 0 points, T:23, fell into a pit 12:13 heh 12:14 !setmintc 200 12:14 K2: [hdf-au][hdf-eu][hdf-us] Min reported turncount for k2 set to 200 12:15 <@Umby> hmmm 12:15 <@Umby> I should play a healer soon, been a long while 12:16 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +2 t-shirt", on T:37721 12:17 !who 12:17 jonathanhanes: [hdf-us] Hill [nh363] Luxidream [nh363] spleen [nh363] Bliss56 [nh363] Bartlem [nh363] Grouchy [evil] AntiVirus [evil] k2 [evil] Ardub [xnh] | [hdf-eu] asdf [nh363] | [hdf-au] No current players 12:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:37815 12:23 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:37865 12:26 go Steve go! 12:27 ^ pet pseudodragon raiding a shop 12:27 -!- ichbinmiah has joined #hardfought 12:28 Steve picks up a food ration. Steve drops a food ration. You see here a food ration (no charge). You are beginning to feel hungry. x - a food ration. 12:28 Steve knows me so well 12:28 <{Demo}2> at least steve wasnt a dumbass that overwound u and u blew up 12:29 -!- stennowork has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:19833 12:31 heh 12:32 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:36 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:37992 12:36 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:37995 12:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:4179 12:38 -!- Bugpowder has joined #hardfought 12:39 [hdf-us] [nh4] desilara (hackedhead) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 18091 points, T:869, killed by a gnome lord 12:40 heya Bugpowder 12:40 yo 12:40 login here with your nethack user/pass - https://www.hardfought.org/tnnt/clanmgmt/ 12:40 invite waiting for ya 12:42 thanks 12:42 \o/ 12:43 I wonder who will win? 12:43 luxidream 12:43 hehehe 12:43 :) 12:43 yes 12:45 <@Umby> I wonder how many YASIs involve a janitor-style class 12:46 slex has a playable janitor role :D 12:47 It turns out the coffee machine works better if you put the water in the top not leave it in the jug, who knew? 12:48 i mixed that up once in on of those espresso cans and it exploded 12:48 I can't remember these things when I haven't had coffee 12:49 lol 12:49 https://primulaproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/aluminum-stovetop-espresso-coffee-maker-12cup.png that kind of thing 12:52 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had a magical dragonhide conical hat entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:2310 12:52 oooh snap 12:53 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) consumed animal products for the first time, by eating a small glob of gray ooze, on T:3176 12:53 noooo its a dunce cap 12:53 <{Demo}2> :( 12:53 lmao 12:53 <@Tone> hahaha 12:54 Anhur you bastard 12:54 <@Tone> Can they gift gauntlets of fumbling and other bad items? 12:54 yup 12:54 gods have a sense of humor 12:54 Xom in that _other_ roguelike loves to gift items it's actually impossible for you to use 12:55 <@Tone> I expect that from Xom though 12:56 because the gift pool is too large, or is that actually coded in the game like that? 12:56 <@Tone> It's coded like that 12:56 lol 12:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 464 points, T:988, killed by a gnome 12:57 It's actually coded like that. Other gifting gods (and acquirement) are guaranteed always to give an item you _can_ use, so it was easy to make Xom do the inverse. 12:57 can you sell those items then at least 12:57 Wouldn't work in NetHack, of course, where practically everything has a use. No; you can't sell anything. 12:57 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:12490 12:57 * LarienTelrunya makes a diablo 2 mod where if you're a paladin, all quest reward items are assassin claws and druid helms :P 12:57 You drop a blessed dragonhide dunce cap. Inuvik offers 1700 gold pieces for your dragonhide dunce cap. Sell it? [ynaq] 12:57 ^ is there an option for fuck yeah? 12:58 <{Demo}2> lol 12:58 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 2308 points, T:2391, killed by a little dog 12:58 <{Demo}2> that reminds me of a funny story 12:58 boo 12:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 59 points, T:249, killed by a fox 13:03 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:39508 13:03 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor on the Plane of Earth, on T:39509 13:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 2205 points, T:3101, killed by a winter wolf cub 13:06 -!- Bugpowder has quit [Quit: Bugpowder] 13:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:17852 13:11 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 13:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 13:13 [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 243 points, T:796, killed by a red mold 13:15 YASI: When you are gone from a level for a long time, a Shopkeeper will “clean up” by picking up everything on the floor and putting it in his shop to sell it. 13:15 hahah 13:16 make a janitor monster 13:16 M3_EVERYTHING 13:16 they pick up everything and beeline to the nearest shop 13:16 and they can use keys and loot containers 13:17 ^ another reason to lock up your stash 13:18 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:39710 13:20 I have on my design document that monsters should zap wands of striking at freestanding boulders, in order to weaken boulder forts as a strategy. I’m holding off because I know doing so will probably make someone mad. 13:20 hmm 13:21 K2: We had previously an idea for a "maid" monster that tidies things up by putting floor items into chests and boxes if available, moves boxes and chests up against walls of rooms, etc. 13:21 i made the riders able to pickup and toss boulders in evilhack 13:21 And wipes out dust engravings. 13:21 jonadab: Doesn’t dnethack implement maids? 13:21 jonadab hahah thats great 13:21 Yeah, that's another thing maids would do to tidy up: push boulders up against walls. 13:21 OCD monster 13:22 question - you know how monsters can tell where you are from all the way across the map and start heading right towards you 13:22 how would you do the same for an object? make a monster, if exists, go staright for it 13:22 But can't actually get to you because they don't understand the concept of going around obstacles? Yeah. 13:23 I don't know the _internals_ of how the AI works, though. 13:23 Doesn't the existing strategy/tactics stuff do this for covetous monsters? 13:23 It might. For certain objects. 13:23 perhaps 13:23 well the AoY 13:23 reason I ask: i made a monster in evilhack - honey badger 13:24 if a level is created with a beehive, there's a chance 1-4 honey badgers will also spawn 13:24 they *love* to eat royal jelly 13:24 I see. 13:24 and they can dig like a rock mole 13:24 but currently they dig towards the player 13:24 Ah, that solves the pathing issue. 13:24 yeah 13:24 -!- moon_child has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.4 - https://znc.in] 13:25 Traversing the objects-on-the-level chain to find royal jelly is not programmatically difficult. 13:25 i would like to make it so the honey badgers go straight for the bees or beehive, or specifically the royal jelly 13:25 But I don't know the AI internals well enough to make a monster do anything about it. 13:25 yeah i am just not familiar enough with the code to know where to start 13:25 FIQ might know, he has done some AI work. 13:25 * K2 summons FIQ 13:25 fleecy fleecy fleecy 13:26 Could they just not do what orcs/leps do with gold? Otherwise it seems the end result of this will be the player finding the beehive full of bees with some honey badgers waiting politely around the edge. 13:26 That's L_T. 13:26 what? that summons me 13:26 i know :D 13:26 The honey badgers should grudge the bees, if you do this. 13:26 they do 13:26 already 13:26 they grudge bees/queen bee 13:26 LarienTelrunya: I love the fact that you get pinged for “fleecy" 13:26 <{Demo}2> why does big slex only have 1 staircase down per level? 13:27 Pinkbeast thats an interesting idea 13:27 AntiGulp: "bundle" also pings me :D 13:27 leps go for gold 13:27 huh 13:27 the files are IN the computer... 13:27 {Demo}2: because there's generally only one stair to/from a level? I guess? 13:27 Heh. 13:27 <{Demo}2> in dcss theres like multiple and the levels r so big it makes sense 13:27 <{Demo}2> so bigslex should do the same 13:27 LarienTelrunya: Fix it. Make it so there are 3-5 sets of up/down stairs between each levels. 13:28 Finkle, Einhorn... Einhorn, Finkle... Finkle IS Einhorn! 13:28 Also you can find or inadvertently assemble a fatal ambush around one set of stairs. 13:28 Is there precedent for having monsters that always know the exact location of the player? Asking for
 a friend 13:28 yeah but how to code it so that those stairs work, especially when there's also special levels? 13:28 lol AntiGulp 13:29 You swap places with Steve. <--- I heart steve 13:29 AntiGulp: that's because the devs are lazy, same reason why AI players in strategy games always get resources out of nowhere: because it would be way harder to code an AI that is actually good :P 13:29 devs are lazy huh 13:29 yeah all these hundreds of bugfixes in 3.6... yup. lazy 13:29 -!- moon_child has joined #hardfought 13:30 Yeah, I would not call the devteam lazy. 13:30 K2: nah, I was referring to the time when the pathfinding system was originally implemented 13:30 back then, one would generally say "uhh coding an intelligent system for whether the monster knows where you are would consume so much memory! let's make them just always know where you are!" 13:30 K2: it's something to do with gx and gy in m_move() 13:30 i.e. back in the day when 480 KB was a lot of memory 13:30 But yeah, if you don't want to rework the strategy() / tactics() stuff in wizard.c, reworking M2_GREEDY's probably the way to go 13:30 hi Chris_ANG o/ 13:30 thanks 13:31 I forget if just setting those is enough or if you also have to tell it that the player is at that location (mux and muy) 13:31 ooh 13:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Cav Inc Mal Law), 193329 points, T:7583, killed by discharging wands 13:31 LarienTelrunya: Haven't mux and muy been around for a long time? 13:31 Ooh, thanks Chris 13:31 Third option - if they grudge bees, just generate them around the edges of the beehives, asleep 13:31 aosdict: yeah but aren't those specifically for "does a nearby monster know your exact location", not for "does a monster know your general location at all"? 13:32 Pinkbeast: they currently generate randomly anywhere on the map. trick is to get to the beehive before they do 13:33 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 2001196 points, T:39739, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Ardub/xnethack/dumplog/1570927838.xnh.html 13:33 When I first started working with the codebase, it took me forever to figure out that “dochug” handled a lot of the AI. I thought it was for chugging potions and so I ignored it. 13:33 cuz they will eat royal jelly like a gelcube will eat everything 13:33 mux and muy are used when a monster has a false location, for example due to displacement. 13:33 However, dnh makes them used for pretty much anything and it works quite well. 13:34 Monsters in dnh DON'T know where the player is from across the map, unless they have a reason to. 13:34 LarienTelrunya: re slashem timeline, I can see why you would want to show that slashthem isn't a 'current' variant, and isn't based on the latest version 13:34 -!- StinkyGreene has joined #hardfought 13:34 Hmm, I might use that. My code that makes monsters try to sacrifice items on altars is pretty crappy. 13:34 but I don't think that my design implies that 13:34 Rather than detecting royal jelly, the location of the beehive could just be stuffed into them at level generation; then you can probably rework mstrategy to have a behaviour that makes the monster try and transit to a given destination if it doesn't see any hostiles. 13:35 Anyone know *why* it's called dochug? 13:35 I mean, just look at slash'em. It's to the right of vanilla, clearly came from it, but...it's a variant of 3.3.1 13:35 Apart from old compiler 8-character function name limits? 13:35 It's chugging along? 13:35 aosdict: might be related to 'you hear a chugging sound' 13:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:26662 13:35 moon_child: that's different though, everyone knows that vanilla is the ancestor of all variants 13:35 Was all monster AI at one point reduced to chugging potions, like that was the only thing they could do besides attack and move? 13:35 maybe the devteam had to chug beers to want to work on that code 13:36 LarienTelrunya: but I mean, vanilla has developed beyond slashem 13:36 K2: Knowing that code, that checks out 13:36 where's that /* Are we having fun yet? */ comment 13:36 or black tar heroin 13:36 It took me ages to work out "you hear a chugging noise"; all I knew was that "chug" was a noise steam locomotives make, not a way of drinking 13:36 moon_child: then the timeline should say "Nethack 3.4.3" I guess? 13:36 LarienTelrunya: also, the surrounding wiki article explains it well enough 13:36 aosdict: It’s in dozap() 13:37 3.3.1, actually 13:37 anyway 13:37 I think that adding versions makes the graph busier and harder to interpret 13:37 ultimately, the point is not to see 'what came after $X', but rather 'where did $Y come from' 13:37 moon_child: TBH I think the current compromise is pretty good (ha, since I wrote it) - we don't have to be overly doctrinaire about just how the template is constructed if it gives a misleading impression. 13:37 I actually think the code in dochug() is easier to understand than the code in eat.c. I’ve been working with eat.c lately and it’s a nightmare to modify. 13:38 moon_child: the variant history graph on the other hand requires versioning as much as possible to have any idea of what came from where and when it did so 13:38 On the other side I was delighted to discover that the function cast_phantom_mirror() ... isn't used when using a phantom mirror 13:39 <@luxidream> it's used for the phantom mirror spell, presumably? 13:39 luxi: There isn't one. It's only used now for Mara and raksha... however you spell 'em ... making illusions of themselves. 13:39 aosdict: I disagree. The graph obviously doesn't stand on its own; it's a visual aid to a textual graph 13:39 <@luxidream> that's the phantom mirror spell 13:40 I do think pinkbeast's is a good compromise, but I just don't feel it's necessary. The aim of a visual aid should be to have as much *visual* clarity as possible 13:40 with text outside of it to clarify non-visual minutiae 13:40 luxi: oh, so it is! 13:40 moon_child: to be clear, I'm talking about the multicolored graph I maintain which is the [[Variant]] page image, not the slash'em table 13:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law), 166681 points, T:26833, killed by a fire giant 13:41 aosdict: ah, I will look at that 13:42 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:4875 13:42 I really want to glomp slicehack and make it a part of splice, but Msearle5 is still mysteriously gone, and I can’t do it without asking him. 13:42 moon_child: I have to agree with Pinkbeast that your version was misleading. Sure, you know that slashthem was not continued while slex was, but imagine being a complete newb who knows nothing about either variant and who comes to the article and sees the table. 13:42 AntiGulp: blah blah NetHack Public License 13:42 It doesn't matter that the text explains it, the timeline is what catches the eye and readers with short attention span might not even read the text, so the table shouldn't be misleading IMHO 13:43 <@Umby> Only a handful of mentions of the Janitor and half of them are ZAPM 13:43 <@Umby> Oh well 13:43 Pinkbeast: True, but it would still feel rude. I’m giving myself ~ a year to see if they show up again. 13:44 <@Umby> Anyway back to this knight 13:44 Pinkbeast: that's a nice graph :) 13:45 couple of minor things: parts of slethe went into slashem 008, dnhslex should maybe go on the other side of slex 2.13-2.44, so it's closer to dnethack 13:45 OK but I'm not aosdict 13:45 LarienTelrunya: fair enough 13:45 * moon_child has amnesia 13:47 yeah dnhslex should be between dnh 3.16 and slex (and will also pull from dnethack master again one day) 13:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:5589 13:57 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 14:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 8800 points, T:7164, killed by an owlbear 14:02 [hdf-us] [nh363] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law), 575 points, T:1783, killed by a rabid rat 14:03 -!- StinkyGreene has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10 [hdf-us] [nh343] Vampire (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 4004 points, T:2659, killed by a giant ant 14:11 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 14:21 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) averted death, on T:4993 14:22 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 14:23 ammy of lifesaving a good trade for a unihorn? 14:23 IDK 14:23 heh 14:23 unihorn is extremely powerful so i'd say so 14:23 oh this is a variant 14:23 yeah I'm glad to have it 14:23 i fixed that cpm stone weirdness 14:23 dunno then 14:23 yeah I saw your commit :) 14:23 \o/ 14:24 sweet 14:24 all good stuff, just having a blast here getting brutally owned by EH 14:24 i was too earlier 14:25 Some office365 meeting off to the side. Even though I'm the only guy with O365 migration experience, the most senior dude is getting his hands held by our consultants right now setting everything up 14:25 my only role in this is to watch, which is funny 14:25 I could probably do the entire thing 14:25 heh 14:25 so anyway, brightside lots of time for EH 14:25 ;) 14:26 errmahgerd 14:27 stenno, I would say unihorn is even more valuable in EH 14:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 110 points, T:590, killed by a kobold zombie 14:30 what do you guys do when you feel like your game is starting to get out of depth for your character's power level 14:30 go back up 14:30 backtrack and spend time in another branch? 14:30 or just say fuck it and power through 14:30 ok, yeah this is definitely happening 14:30 yeah that's my normal course 14:31 which results in death 99.6% of the time 14:31 Use the pet more 14:31 its dead 14:31 but yeah I love hiding behind my pet and sniping from there 14:31 Try and avoid the pet dying; tame new pets if possible 14:31 *nods 14:32 It's not that but that when you gain XLs the monster difficulty goes up, but when the pet gains HD it doesn't. 14:32 yeah sometimes its like..hey where did that dragon go? 14:32 meh 14:32 true 14:32 and if you get lucky you have some massive pet, and buy a bunch of protection at low level 14:33 but yeah leveling up is a double edged sword for sure 14:34 come to think of it, I should put more thought into checking my pet's health, and healing it 14:34 I'm not a fan of the protection racket but I do think fragile classes who gain few HP at level up (bad Con, etc) should try and let the pet get the lion's share of the XP 14:35 I backed of and put on a ring of conflict 14:35 *backed off 14:35 that's helping a bit 14:39 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 1284 points, T:2469, killed by a couatl of Ptah 14:42 bone pickaxe for the win 14:42 31 weight vs 112 for silver 14:42 but it burns eh? 14:46 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 14:53 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 2146 points, T:4133, killed by a soldier ant 15:04 o snap 15:04 Illithid is live? 15:04 I'll have to give it a try next game 15:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:56796 15:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:56797 15:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 gauntlets of power", on T:56808 15:09 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:56813 15:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:56813 15:22 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 15:22 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 15:26 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 270 points, T:1304, killed by a dwarf king 15:37 !tea 15:37 * Beholder delivers jonathanhanes a cup of oolong tea, fermented by Izchak at -8 degrees Celsius. 15:46 -!- moony has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:47 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 15:47 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 15:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] jonathanhanes (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:14065 15:48 -!- tacco| has quit [Client Quit] 15:48 fuck off 15:48 god dammit 15:48 !goat Anhur 15:48 jonathanhanes's goat runs up and kicks Anhur in the kneecap! Baaaaaa! 15:49 -!- moony has joined #hardfought 16:08 gauntlets of protection? 16:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 346954 points, T:57613, dissolved in molten lava 16:12 oh no bliss :( 16:12 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in] 16:12 -!- sodastab has joined #hardfought 16:13 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 16:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] jonathanhanes (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) was chosen to take lives for the Glory of Anhur, on T:15467 16:18 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 16:18 -!- sodastab has quit [Quit: *BLAM* Clone terminated.] 16:21 so I decided to continue on from that point where I felt out of depth 16:21 and take a lot more time, wear and remove the blindfold get a light source 16:21 and i was able to force bolt snipe everything at a very long range, further out than my candle 16:21 that really really helped me get over that hump 16:22 a lot of monsters didn't even see me, and just died to spells/wands. kinda cool, a different way to play the mines than I'm used to 16:23 blindfolded focebolt casting with telepathy rocks 16:24 just don't move around to any squares you haven't seen lol, or you could end up in the water 16:24 -!- Bugpowder has joined #hardfought 16:26 -!- Bugpowder has quit [Client Quit] 16:33 problem with falling down deep like that is traps (poly) 16:34 especially if you're wearing a robe and a shirt... hard to replace 16:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo2 (Arc Inc Fem Neu), 394 points, T:698, killed by a gas spore's explosion 16:34 <{Demo}2> uhh 16:34 <{Demo}2> not sure how that happened 16:34 <{Demo}2> threw a sword at it but i think i typod the direction hard 16:36 yeah that's nasty 16:36 I'm clutching my MR tightly 16:37 oh well, yeah that helps lol 16:37 I didn't fall down anything I just hit a difficulty spike in the mines 16:37 oh i see 16:37 Wizards are SOO squishy that Melee is pretty much never an option 16:37 oh i know 16:37 except as a little sprinkle here and there 16:37 at least until magicbane 16:37 yeah so without a pet to run cover... 16:38 yeah and a huge wall of negative AC 16:38 i have no patience for that... but i like spellcasting 16:38 right and based on the dirth of altars in this game, that will be a while 16:38 yeah monk is way more direct, much faster play is possible 16:38 yeah sometimes there's no altars at all. and sometimes several on a level. 16:38 and then you have some magic to help out in a pinch 16:39 -!- Bugpowder has joined #hardfought 16:39 I actually think my game can get completely hosed without altars 16:39 i used to play priests all the time. no need for altars 16:39 but they suck at fighting too 16:39 yeah that's nice 16:39 (not as bad as wizard) 16:39 recently I've been easy finding magical lamps thanks to the new wizard magic detection 16:40 and they are nerfed in EH... no wishing for grayswandir and pretending you're not a priest i don't think 16:40 but, no altars for beatitude adjustment 16:40 so I've died with many possible wishes lol 16:40 i always search the mines completely anyway... i don't miss any magic lamps. but yeah you need to be able to bless them 16:40 hopefully you left bones... 16:40 likely not 16:41 but maybe who knows 16:41 yeah I never miss them either because I name them etc etc 16:41 lite them and wait 16:41 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo2 (Arc Inc Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:855 16:41 why likely not? I'm glad we are leaving each other bones. i find my own all the time 16:41 but now I know right away 16:41 no artifacts on those runs 16:41 yeah bones rock 16:42 do you know about gauntlets of protection? I just found them 16:42 no, that's a new one to me 16:42 and do you know if there's a list of 0.4 changes all together? 16:42 I read some commits, but otherwise nah 16:43 I have no idea 16:43 yeah ame 16:43 same 16:43 they self identified the way a cloak of protection does 16:43 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/doc/evilhack-changelog.txt 16:43 sweeet 16:43 so i'm guessing it's an MC increase 16:43 nice thank you :) 16:43 rebatela - what did i nerf exactly? 16:43 it wasn't a complaint 16:43 i know 16:43 i thought priests can't use blade weapons? 16:43 just making sure you're not mistaken 16:44 probably MC and AC for those gauntlets 16:44 in vanilla a priest can wish for grayswandir and go to town 16:44 priests can use edged weapons, but 1) good luck landing a hit and 2) you'll screw up your alignment 16:44 ok so there ya go :0 16:44 hmm 16:44 Chaotic Priest must draw blood 16:44 for the ruinous powers... 16:44 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/e698a966fbe346dcba96f8edaf86378cc6fcdf76 16:47 Convict 16:47 intersting 16:47 its a difficult role 16:48 how high does their skill with Iron Ball go? ;) 16:48 exists in a few other variants 16:48 it equates to flail skill 16:48 [hdf-us] [slex] monistowl (Cha Dra Fem Cha), 142 points, T:389, killed by a monster (Azmodan) 16:49 see you all in a bit 16:49 Iron Ball of Liberation 16:49 how fun 16:50 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:50 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 16:50 rebatela check this convict quest item 16:50 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/The_Iron_Ball_of_Liberation 16:50 phasing and MR 16:51 awesome! 16:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo2 (Arc Inc Fem Neu) wished for "Blessed +2 fixed cloak of the unheld one", on T:1501 16:52 yeah that thing looks sweet 16:52 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 16:52 love it 16:53 They also get Luck Blade 16:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4014 16:55 i won't be happy with myself until i can get the castle wand without a wish.... Now, if that involves doing quest first that's fine. But so far i've only been able to get to mid game in EH if i get lucky with an early wish or 2 16:55 Ammy of magic resistance 16:55 you'll like that one 16:55 so you can keep your robe on there 16:56 nice 16:56 -!- ichbinmiah has quit [] 16:56 so dragonbane paired with that amulet would work well 16:57 right, reflection, and MR then 16:57 gauntlets of protection for MC3 16:57 not a bad kit 16:57 Anyway, it gives more flexible options for putting together a complete set of defenses, and I like that 16:58 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Arc Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a baby white dragon, on T:10929 16:58 helm of speed 16:59 speed is such an underrated portion of the game... you should learn haste self as soon as you have the eye and cast it so you are very fast for thousands of turns 17:00 (it builds) 17:00 but speed boots and helm of speed are great for non-wizards... seems like a waste of a slot if you can cast the spell though 17:00 yeah speed is key 17:01 I'm still hoping I find a wand of speed monster 17:01 I immediately zap self & pet and bag that thing 17:01 that only makes you fast though 17:01 true, boots are better 17:01 Helm gives more flexibility 17:01 as is the spell... that's what i'm trying to tell you. learn and cast that shit a whole bunch of times and you will be very fast for the rest of the game without wearing anything 17:01 I like the possibility of not having to choose between speed and jumping, or levitation or something 17:02 or shoot, how about helm of speed and stealth 17:02 it just opens up some nice combos 17:02 yeah I'll do that 17:02 not too much power drain eh? 17:02 you need the eye 17:02 i do it as monk 17:03 cast a bunch. rest for 100 turns (your power is regained) cast a bunch more... you'll blow thru some food if you don't have hungerless casting, but that's it 17:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) endured an absurd aquatic ceremony, and now wields Excalibur, on T:5075 17:04 but after you do the quest... you don't need speed boots. write the spell and cast and wearing jumping boots (or water walking.. i do that a lot) or stealth even like you said 17:04 nethack needs ADOM's acid ball 17:15 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:25 k2: sometimes in evilhack, i notice pets getting 'stuck' in an area... i've seen it happen in vanilla too, but they get attracted to one spot and will just keep circling around it sort of ? 17:25 its usually food they want 17:25 in my experience, they are after food or an item 17:25 sometimes they seem attracted to a nice bit of gear 17:26 I'll pick up the junk they're hovering around and they follow me again 17:26 so why doesn't he eat the food? 17:26 but yeah, like K2 said, food also 17:26 rebatela - I added a bit of AI for pets and eating 17:26 I've totally had situations where they're damned determined to keep picking up this one crude dagger 17:27 and won't follow until I pick it up and chuck it away 17:27 after they eat enough and reach a hunger threshold, they wont want to eat again until they're 'hungry' 17:27 vanilla pets, they'll just eat every corpse in sight 17:27 not a good thing since intrinsics are partial in evilhack 17:27 that's so much better 17:28 it sucks to have them chomp on a corpse you were hoping to gain intrisics from, happens much less now 17:28 i tweaked that threshold once but i may do it again, i feel like its too long still 17:28 [hdf-us] [slex] monistowl (Wiz Bre Fem Cha), 9164 points, T:2996, killed by a monster (super wooden statue) 17:28 just found your bones antivirus 17:28 pets can get intrinsics too, sometimes you want them to eat 17:28 but the ghost jumped into a telport trap lol 17:28 what u got? 17:28 HAHA 17:28 what level 17:28 I'mma watch 17:28 is 'dust cloak' a new random appearance ? 17:29 dusty* 17:29 I never ID's that piece 17:29 that was a super early game 17:30 enjoy the cloak 17:30 it's MR? 17:30 <{Demo}2> dusty is a LA slashem 17:30 you weren't a wizard ? 17:30 always 17:30 so yep 17:30 what else you find? 17:30 i wasn't even sure if dusty cloak was a new thing or just a new name 17:31 hah! 17:31 yerp 17:31 nice bag... it was a bag o tricks 17:31 bastard 17:31 hehe 17:31 cursed too so you can create lots of mobs 17:31 i was worried about it being holding and losing items cuz it was cursed 17:31 yeah not on level 4 17:31 oh that staff 17:32 is that the ironshod staff? 17:32 I had high opes for that one 17:32 2 spellbooks some rings scrolls potions 17:32 not bad 17:32 *high hopes 17:32 didn't screw up my arti-wishing 17:32 i'd be pissed if you had named sting or something 17:32 yeah you might get force bolt and magic missile or something off me 17:32 nah nah 17:32 although I do that often 17:32 so one is likely force bolt 17:32 there just are not that many good early game weapons 17:32 i need an altar now 17:33 pretty sure that staff is just my +1 quarterstaff 17:33 yup, good luck 17:33 oh there's nothing wrong with naming sting... but it will piss off people playing on a public server if you die all the time and do it and they keep finding your bones 17:33 totally, I get it 17:33 dude I would love to find an artifact staff at somepoint 17:34 so what is this trap you died to? 17:34 i'm standing next to a telpeport trap that your ghost jumped in 17:34 I donno, some kind of paralisys 17:34 maybe I had a trapped chest 17:34 oh maybe from this chest 17:34 yeah it was, sprung now 17:34 well it should be disarmed then right? 17:34 aye 17:35 hmm yes I should be untrapping before kicking 17:36 oh yeah .... i do it a few times 17:36 anyway like I was saying, staff of war would be a cool wizard game 17:36 you could wear a lot of metal armor, and get a 50% reduction in spell failure 17:36 i've gotten the staff of escape a couple times 17:36 never war 17:36 ironshod is war 17:36 which makes sense 17:37 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed the invisible AntiVirus' ghost, the former Evoker, on T:1217 17:37 heh 17:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 5913 points, T:8188, killed by a mumak 17:43 [hdf-us] [slex] monistowl (Zyb Clk Fem Neu), 490 points, T:751, killed by a monster (Windows XP) 17:45 i dislike the gnomish wizards more than any monster in the entire game 17:45 hah 17:45 \o/ 17:46 i haven't faced an archangel yet, but i've watched hothraxxa a few times 17:46 and i still say gnomish wizard 17:48 ahhh it's the minetown with no shops. even better 17:49 hi 17:49 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 17:49 I was asleep 17:49 K2: in theory, this is very easy. The problem is that NH3 simply does not have AI travel 17:50 Telepathy is a huge help with gnomish wizards 17:50 -!- jessek has joined #hardfought 17:50 I have a couple in my current minetown. I locked them inside their room. 17:50 You'd need to change things drastically when it comes to monster movement logic to address this 17:50 yup 17:50 I mean 17:50 in NH4 this would be maybe 10 lines of code at most, probably less 17:50 for EvilHack I am learning i can never have too much situational awareness 17:51 but you'd have to add AI travel to make it work in first place 17:51 which is.. a lot more than that 17:51 so I'm using Telepathy and blindfold all the freaking time 17:51 I can't afford to be surprised by some mob 17:51 rebatela 17:52 The water nymph tries to rob you, but there is nothing to steal! You regain consciousness. 17:52 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 17:53 antivirus: oh for sure, man.. It's made me a much better player. that's why i like it 17:53 and yeah of course i use telepathy on those things 17:53 yeah and nymphs too 17:53 i'm talking about the very early game where in that case i found your bones and i dug down to minetown because i needed an altar 17:54 blindfold, long range fire wand 17:54 never saw me coming, no broken mirrors lol 17:54 and if i had kept all that loot (scrolls and potions and spellbooks ) on me ? i would have been screwed 17:54 so he cast the spell and i lost all the stuff i was carrying. not the end of the world 17:54 ah yeah 17:54 loll, I think I and patr wound up doing the same work twice at the same time 17:54 *lol 17:54 carrying too much stuff is so tempting 17:54 especially for wizard with Str 9 and lots of books 17:55 like an overworked underfed grad student here 17:55 once you have a bag, and telepathy and all that stuff, of course they aren't are a problem 17:55 just updated my PR to account for DT change, and a mere minute later got a response that it was merged by hand because there was conflicts 17:55 i.e. what I just fixed 17:55 Oh well 17:57 i thought 0.4 EH was supposed to make monks have 1/5 chance of starting with a magic marker?? Did you forget? We can all quit our games so you can add it.. 17:57 lol 17:58 rebatela, his palms open 17:58 * FIQ gives rebatela a felt marker 17:59 bhaak: btw, is there a particular reason the public commits are delayed? 17:59 PatR's last response I just got implies that it was very much deliberate 17:59 I had assumed that it was just a matter of a routine cron job which only runs every so often or similar 18:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:2983 18:01 antivirus: don't you break a lot of potions kicking chests? Helpful hint, I annotate like : BOX or whatever for the early chests and then as soon as i get a dagger or tool like that that I have curse tested (usually with pet) i will force chest with the blade 18:01 yeah true 18:01 i used to kick them 18:01 for some reason I got lazy 18:01 I do favor forcing with a dagger 18:01 actually it wasn't even implied but stated outright 18:01 good reminder 18:02 but for chests on the first few levels, I kick the crap out of them 18:02 you're gonna beat this game before me.. i shouldn't even be sharing my limited knowledge lol 18:02 I'm really not that interested in potions exept for water 18:02 I can't ID them anyway haha 18:03 IDK we will see dude, this game is hard, and Vanilla took me a decade before I decided to get serious 18:04 nothing wrong with a little jolly cooperation ;) 18:04 Praise the Sun 18:04 seriously tho, I'm getting addicted to blindfold telepathy checks 18:04 oh! Theres, a mastadon...(goes the other way) 18:04 <@Umby> I enjoy not potentially breaking useful items gneerally 18:05 ya dude but you're level 2, with like 15hp and everything is trying to MURDER you 18:05 <@Umby> and yeah, the game also isn't too generous if you try to fight every single enemy as well as the upholstery 18:05 <@Umby> :B 18:05 <@Umby> exactly, stuff in those chests might help me get less murdered 18:05 so that spellbook or wand that didn't break could make the difference. I'm not waiting until christmas morning to open my presents 18:06 maybe but chances are potions won't change anything 18:06 <@Umby> or you could just try living until christmas morning 18:06 <@Umby> :B 18:06 you can't ID them without significant risk in the early game 18:06 FIQ: IIRC it is some kind of safety net. although I'm not sure what it saves against. the time period is short enough that easily an offending commit could pass through with every other DT member sleeping. but IIRC it wasn't a group consensus thing, just a "let's do it this way for the time being" decision. 18:06 spellbook or wand, no problemo 18:06 <@Umby> I usually just carry them around until I can ID them 18:06 I dip the crap out of them 18:06 <@Umby> by which point I generally still have like 90% or more of them 18:07 and don't care what they are unless I get identify spell or many scrolls 18:07 I want the holy wanter 18:07 -!- Bugpowder has quit [Quit: Bugpowder] 18:07 <@Umby> or they explode 18:07 *water 18:07 <@Umby> and you just lose 18:07 acid explosion is pretty weak 18:08 potion ID is a luxury 18:08 <@Umby> I generally play it cautious enough that having a potion thrown at me doesn't instantly fuck me 18:08 holy water is a MUST 18:08 <@Umby> those usually give me chances to ID them anyway 18:08 so holy water > potion ID 18:08 <@Umby> you say that but I can get by with stuff that's at least uncursed until I find an altar for formal ID 18:09 I want to roll up on my first altar with a fat stack of water 18:09 bless them all, and bag them 18:09 <@Umby> gotta convert it first :B 18:09 <@Umby> pith aside, it personally doesn't make sense to go for holy water until I've ID'd enough to know what I have 18:09 it breaks the game wide open to be able to bless as much as you need 18:10 <@Umby> then I can figure out what I actually want blessed 18:10 finding/making holy water (if i'm not a priest) is one of my very first goals 18:10 <@Umby> and I've gotten decently far without necessarily blitzing for holy water, enough that a lack of it isn't the reason I die in a given area 18:10 ah yeah I see your point, but blessing helps making random testing safer 18:11 also I usually mix in price ID into that 18:11 and figure out where my risky potions and scrolls are lurking 18:11 when I'm being careful 18:11 -!- ichbinmiah has joined #hardfought 18:12 also dipping to make that fat stack of water in the upper dungeon will yield wishes eventually 18:12 very recently I stopped dipping until I found an altar 18:12 but after that, it's on 18:12 yep, then backtrack to lvl1 and dip all the early fountains 18:12 bhaak: I see 18:12 yeah i dip on 1 first and then go down 18:12 yeah thanks for that tip 18:12 smart 18:12 odds are the best on dl1 for a wish 18:12 best with blessed luckstone in hand if ya got one 18:13 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:60696 18:13 I believe it is modified by luck 18:13 i don't think luck is involved... it's just a formula 18:13 hmm 18:13 -!- Bugpowder has joined #hardfought 18:13 [hdf-us] [nh363] spleen (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 6962 points, T:5334, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted leocrotta 18:13 based on DL and then it becomes impossible after dl 20 18:13 I submit there is a useful convention whereby Luck is capitalised if and only if you mean the game mechanic 18:14 <@Umby> fucking hate blacklights lmfao 18:14 <@Umby> they result in stuff like a dead spleen 18:14 pinkbeast: hah. that's fair I'll call it Luck when talking about the game 18:14 Luck does improve your fountain experience 18:14 <@Umby> Sure does 18:15 but you're right, it might not help with wishes directly 18:15 It's not always confusing, but sometimes it's not clear if you mean Luck as in luckstone or luck as in the RNG's favour 18:15 I always mean luckstone 18:15 and the luck stat 18:16 Certainly just avoiding ever using "luck" to mean the RNG's favour is also a useful approach, yeah 18:16 Pinkbeast I am down with that convention, Luck it is 18:16 for dipping? having high luck gives you a better chance of a wish than having regular non-negative luck ? 18:17 As far as I can make out Luck only matters when quaffing and it is desirable that it be 4+ 18:18 i think luck only matters if you want to quaff magic fountains 18:18 (and also desirable that it be non-negative) 18:18 no the chance of wishing is not better 18:18 I was wrong 18:18 the Wiki makes some reference to your chances with non-negative luck 18:18 yeah i think that's for quaffing though 18:19 i never do that 18:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:16838 18:19 dip ~ quaff 18:19 they are almost the same 18:19 -!- joes has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:19 yeah I never quaff 18:19 The general way wishes work less well with non-negative Luck applies, though 18:20 Er. Less well with negative Luck. :-) 18:20 yeah... don't wish with bad luck 18:20 <@Umby> Luck has p. of applications/influence outside quaffing lol 18:20 1/30 chance of water demon "A water demon is summoned. It has an (80+DL)/100 chance of being hostile" 18:20 OH! 18:21 dude on the contrary...negative Luck could be strategic 18:21 the funny thing is that i used to always play priests... and then one day it was friday 13th or new moon or whatever starts you off with -1 luck so i couldn't pray for food so i decided to try monk because they start with all the food 18:21 check this out 18:21 and i found a WoW on the dungeon floor in the first room! 18:21 (and couldn't wish) 18:21 it says quaffing/dipping from a magic fountain puts you in the normal table 18:21 !tell ais523 does all curses ACS_* always work no matter your terminal? if so, this implies that there is a set of characters that has 100% compatibility beyond the characters uncursed define as 100% usable beyond ascii + CP437 (for example, not equal to or the ACS_S1/S9 characters). afaik, putty does something weird with DECgraphics under unicode mode, but in that mode the characters should remain 18:21 I'm on it, FIQ. 18:21 accessible as Unicode characters 18:21 so actually there is a greater chance of water demons with negative Luck 18:21 !tell ais523 accessible as Unicode characters. 18:21 No worries, FIQ, I've got this! 18:23 AntiVirus: Not so - quaffing from a magic fountain with non-negative Luck can't use it up, so after you get the stat gain you've still got the expected value of a non-magic fountain. 18:24 quaffing from a magic fountain with negative Luck causes it to behave like a normal fountain, therefore a chance of Water Demons 18:24 that's what I ment 18:24 AntiVirus: I know that but that doesn't matter for the reason just stated above. 18:24 oh right 18:25 I guess I've never really played with magic fountains in mind 18:25 so you can just drink them forever until you're all buff? 18:25 <@Umby> also no one said lower luck can't be strategic 18:25 <@Umby> (see: avoiding crowning) 18:25 <@Umby> lmfao no 18:25 so lets say I have a luckstone 18:25 I think if you're not trying for Excalibur optimal fountain use is to have Luck 4+, quaff until you know the fountain is not magical, then quaff or dip, whichever's bad effects are easier to handle. 18:25 blessed, and positive luck that does not time out 18:25 No - getting the stat gain from a magic fountain makes it a non-magic fountain. 18:25 ah, ok so one good result 18:26 That's _why_ "after you get the stat gain you've still got the expected value of a non-magic fountain" 18:26 ok, thanks for the details 18:26 that's cool to know 18:26 I never quaff, so how can I make use of them? 18:26 I'll have to watch carefully to see if Wizard magic detection IDs them 18:27 you see here a magical fountain 18:27 that would be sweet 18:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Trollsbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:20435 18:28 If you never quaff then just be able to deal with the adverse consequences of dipping, dip until you get a wish or it dries up. Don't forget to pickaxe one to make a swimming pool. 18:28 wow 18:28 (But the wish mechanics mean optimally you'll make the pool as deep as you can, down to DL 21) 18:28 I wanted to check how libuncursed handles long lines 18:28 er 18:28 s/libuncursed/NH4/ 18:29 the answer is: it doesn't 18:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:21737 18:29 if a line is too long in a menu, it will simply cut off 18:29 ah, maybe quaffing and digging them makes sense after lvl 21 18:29 good point 18:30 Well, you might need to get some blanking/diluting done before then. 18:30 EH has plenty of water 18:30 but yeah in vanilla 18:30 if i keep my stash in soko, i usually leave one of the oracle fountains to dig down on 18:30 I also like dipping in a sack 18:30 so i know i have a source of water right there 18:31 oh right, oracle would be a nice spot for that 18:31 I would never dip in a fountain as a dilution/blanking mechanism 18:31 never? 18:31 huh, that's all I do 18:31 yeah me too... and have gotten hundreds of wishes that way 18:31 I just recently learned about digging fountains 18:31 Pinkbeast do you quaff them all? 18:31 (OK, theoretically no pickaxe, urgent need). 18:32 ah 18:32 not a fan of the early wish? 18:32 I don't. It takes ages to protect against the adverse consequences of dipping/quaffing and the odds of a wish are very small. 18:32 yeah I'm with rebatela, when I see fountains I'm hunting for wishes 18:32 hmm, nah I just make sure I have a good level 18:32 you do it when you can deal with it... not on turn 12 like the fountain quaffers 18:32 scroll of teleport means, game on to dip 18:32 as long as I have one 18:32 i view the wishes as a bonus generally 18:32 you go back and dip in the early fountains 18:32 HAHA the fountain quaffers 18:33 because they actually have decent chances of wish granting demons 18:33 But that's partly down to lack of arsedness - I detail what I think is optimal behavior above 18:33 as soon as I have a good means of escape / enough HP I dip 18:33 (pinkbeast doesn't play nh) 18:33 but usually not before XP lvl 5 18:34 the right wish can crack the game open 18:34 jessek: exactly... i'm not looking for wishes. but i always go back and dip from the top down and end up getting them 18:35 who cares about water moccasins when you have a teleport scroll/wand in your back pocket? 18:35 <@Umby> if it happens then you take it but hinging success solely on a wish is a bit đŸ€” 18:35 even the mines end branches with fountains (catacombs ) i will go back and dip in and sometimes get a wish 18:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:23519 18:35 <@Umby> see, you say that, and then you end up not 5 tiles from your initial spot, and one of them ganks you immediately 18:35 no one is hinging on the wish... but pinkbeast said would never dip in a fountain. that's just crazy to me 18:35 5 tiles away, I'll live 18:36 as long as I am not surrounded 18:36 it's a pretty good chance on DL1, 2 etc... once you're buff? why wouldn't you go back and dip there? 18:36 <@Umby> that's just how they play ig 18:36 <@Umby> :GWaobloChildPepeShrug: 18:38 <@Umby> there's infinitely more arbitrary restrictions people put on what they use to win that would register as more inane than that 18:38 As said, I think it's optimal, just can't be bothered - by the time you're buff enough, the game's generally pretty under control. But I hadn't thought of holding a teleport scroll, that's a good idea. 18:38 <@Umby> and if it's possible and they're confident enough in their play then leave 'em to it 18:38 yeah see I'm looking to that wish to get the game under control 18:38 I think partly it's because optimal quaffing is a right nuisance because of the curse items result, but I'd hate to use up magic fountains by dipping. 18:39 I can build up other ways, but the wishes? I'll take them 18:39 what else are you going to use them for ? 18:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:24659 18:39 at some point your stats are maxed 18:39 rebatela: Stat gain. 18:39 7/10ths chance 18:39 that's pretty big 18:39 AntiVirus: It's not a 7/10th chance. 18:40 I'm saying when you're stats are all 18's... and you have all these fountains 18:40 ? 18:40 you don't dip ? 18:40 if magic, isn't it? 18:40 70% chance of stat gain 18:40 so, you're a fountai quaffer, pinkbeast... 18:40 AntiVirus: Consider when the fountain is actually made non-magical 18:40 rebatela: No. I didn't say that. 18:40 you said you would never waste a fountain dipping 18:40 right right, my next question is, how many magic vs non-magic are there? 18:40 oooo it might map the level for you ! 18:40 I didn't, no. I said "I would never dip in a fountain as a dilution/blanking mechanism" 18:41 I see your point 18:41 there are ways to dilute/blank with ZERO risk 18:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:25232 18:41 AntiVirus: So if you quaff until you know the fountain is non-magical, you get 1/7 of a stat gain per fountain. 18:41 hmmm 18:41 ok ok 18:41 right... so you dig down on one fountain near your stash 18:41 permanent water supply 18:42 ok so the best way to go is what Pinkbeast is saying 18:42 the rest you dip in until they are cashed out because you might get a wish 18:42 find one pool of water 18:42 and quaff the rest when you are ready to defend yourself 18:42 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) signified by divine providence, was chosen to carry Excalibur, on T:5313 18:42 that maximizes all the benifits 18:42 IC IC 18:42 after stepping through this I see his point 18:42 do yall just jump into a pool for diluting? 18:43 why would you dip in a fountain, when a pool of water will dilute for you without ANY risk at all 18:43 and as far as backtracking for wishes goes rebatela, you and I should be backtracking to quaff them all 18:43 no water walking boots? 18:43 AntiVirus: well there's the risk of being caught with your unrustable armor on 18:43 we'll get stats, and wishes 18:43 without* 18:43 don't feel like disrobing and going swimming 18:43 true, but that's a matter of prep 18:43 ? 18:44 prep? someitmes theres no water walking boots until vlads 18:44 AntiVirus: quaffing can curse 1/5 of your inventory. dip junk instead 18:44 AntiVirus: That's not quite clear - perhaps it's better to dip earlier because wishes are worth more earlier. 18:44 ah 18:44 hmmm 18:44 you would have to calculate how much a wish improves your chances of survival to truly know 18:44 i'm usually wearing a set of dwarven when i'm looking to make a bunch of holy water so i'll dip fountains for it, barring an early /oCancel 18:44 <@Umby> wands of cancellation work p. well for water/blank scrolls once you ID one 18:44 I feel like we need one of those baseball moneball quant fools to help us sort this out 18:45 <@Umby> lol timing 18:45 :D 18:45 *moneyball 18:45 AntiVirus: But, say, it's clear that's a lot if you don't currently have a DSM. 18:45 quaff some fountains and see how it works out... the bad effects from quaffing are worse than a handful of water mocassins or a demon you should be able to fight if you are mesing with fountains in the first place 18:45 indeed it is clear 18:45 a wish improves your chances of survival immensely if you know what you're doing, but most people who know what they're doing see fountain scumming as degenerate 18:45 yeah I haven't quaffed in years, god I need a drink 18:46 we all know that... but no one is talking about fountain scumming aosdict 18:46 i think we're all in agreement that quaffing fountains is silly 18:46 we are talking about dipping 18:46 right ok ok 18:46 so dip a rock or something 18:46 aosdict: By fountain scumming do you mean dipping to win _a_ game (risking death) or dipping to win _this_ game? 18:46 but wait... 18:46 jessek: Are we? 18:46 Pinkbeast: The former. 18:46 you don't get the stat gain from magic fountains without quaffing 18:46 <@Umby> also ae we talking early xl1 scumming? 18:46 yeah... pinkbeast thinks dipping is a waste and fountains should be quaffed 18:47 i suspect someone who doesn't play NH anymore is trying to be contrarian though 18:47 ahh i see 18:47 rebatela: Could you please not put words into my mouth I didn't say? 18:47 I don't find dipping to be risky when prepared 18:47 <@Umby> I don't think that's what they said though 18:47 <@Umby> like at all 18:47 <@Umby> lol 18:47 Ok.. I'll go back and quote.. defend your position. People seem confused 18:47 you're the only one who thinks you should save fountains for quaffing 18:47 Do I think that? 18:48 i've never heard anyone say it 18:48 <@Umby> "As said, I think it's optimal, just can't be bothered - by the time you're buff enough, the game's generally pretty under control. But I hadn't thought of holding a teleport scroll, that's a good idea." 18:48 I would never dip in a fountain as a dilution/blanking mechanism 18:48 <@Umby> said WRT dipping 18:48 I see his point, it is not risky to swim 18:48 Umby: WRT dipping, yes - so nothing to do with quaffing. 18:49 after stripping down to the hawaiian tshirt 18:49 <@Umby> I know, I'm agreeing with you 18:49 <@Umby> "I would never do it" =/= "I find it a complete waste" 18:49 <@Umby> "I would never do it" =/= "I think quaffing is better" 18:49 what about the cursing 18:49 Pinkbeast do you just drop everything before quaffing? that sounds hazadous 18:50 anyway I think I will continue as before 18:50 Rather the important bit there is "as a dilution/blanking mechanism". If I want to dilute or blank stuff, I'll make a pool. That's almost independent of the question of when it's worth dipping for wishes. 18:50 why risk getting a wish when you can make a pool ? 18:51 but you get a 2-for-1 dipping to dilute 18:51 chance of wish, and water 18:51 some chance of snakes or demons 18:51 which I'm able to handle pretty well 18:51 <@Umby> and I don't recall them mentioning quaffing either 18:51 who? 18:51 AntiVirus: Do I just drop everything? I can't be bothered with any of this stuff. But I think it might be optimal to quaff first. You'll find the average consumption of holy water per fountain tested is small, assuming you're just (say) wearing a DSM and wielding a weapon in case something turns up at _just_ the wrong time. 18:51 Pinkbeast said it was a waste of magic fountains 18:52 I think partly it's because optimal quaffing is a right nuisance because of the curse items result, but I'd hate to use up magic fountains by dipping 18:52 ok ok 18:52 that's what pinkbeast said 18:52 <@Umby> ^ 18:52 so given a stack of holy water to uncurse my stuff 18:52 quaffing could be profitable 18:52 anytime i get in an argument here... It's the same couple people, and they completley backpedal from what they were saying and try to make me out to be some dumbass 18:52 more profitable than wasting the stat chances 18:52 "why risk getting a wish when you can make a pool" you're going to want a pool anyway and the net loss of wish if you make one on, say, DL10 is not large. 18:53 then i learn they don't even play nh anymore for whatever reason. and everyone hates on me 18:53 rebatela: you've repeatedly completely misrepresented what I said. 18:53 haha not to worry 18:53 we're all just interested in playing optimally. it's a good discussion 18:53 <@Umby> no one's hating on you 18:53 i'm sure quaffing fountains is the way to go in dungeon soup 18:53 <@Umby> not that I'm aware anyway :V 18:53 we're good 18:53 well pools are extremely common in EH 18:54 there's almost no reason to wreck a fountain before LVL 20 18:54 <@Umby> also discussion's been p. civil as well, just misunderstandings going on 18:54 AntiVirus: Sure, and if I have a pool, I'll use it (but still in that case I'll never dip in a fountain for dilution or blanking) 18:54 it's an interesting idea 18:55 if you are like level 10 and have a bunch of hitpoints and your stats are maxed and you can fight 3 water mocassins or a water demon, you are a fool to not dip in a fountain for dilution purposes. because it is a potential wish 18:55 But i'm not going to tell anyone how to play the game 18:55 wait 18:55 but, you still get the wish chance if you quaff in your scenario rebatela 18:55 rebatela: That's not true - you can dip a useless rock into the fountain. 18:55 but you ALSO get the chance of stat gain, and item curse 18:55 haha this is silly 18:56 why would you dip a rock, when you can dip a potion 18:56 I would dip a rock if I had nothing to blank/dilute 18:56 but only in that case 18:56 Because I don't want to have a potion or scroll out in open inventory if there's any chance I won't be able to bag it immediately. 18:56 By the way dipping vs quaffing is totally the new TABs vs SPACEs 18:57 <@Umby> Also Pinkbeast, ty for the corrections/catching of things I missed 18:58 Umby: mm. If I were doing this again I'd try to be clearer on the distinction between what I think is optimal versus what I personally can actually be bothered to do :-/ 18:58 <@Umby> Huh? 18:58 <@Umby> No I meant on the wiki 18:58 OIC. No worries. 18:58 <@Umby> imo you were relatively clear on that from the beginning 18:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:29484 18:59 Yeah it's worth noteing that magic fountains are wasted by dipping 19:00 I'm not sure what to make of it, due to cursing 19:00 but if I have the spell of remove curse, GAME ON for quaffing 19:00 wizards in EH can cast that 19:00 I did the arithmetic on this back in err some time last century :-/ 19:00 haha 19:00 nice 19:01 well uncursing an item does become rather trivial later on 19:01 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 19:01 and the chance of stat gain doesn't go away after level 20... 19:02 -!- bubbles_nh has joined #hardfought 19:02 <@Umby> do you mean xl20 19:02 <@Umby> or dl20 19:02 hehe 19:02 Absolute corporate bullshit from freenode. My vpn is on a ban list???? 19:02 dl20 19:02 I had to grant freenode a specific exemption! 19:02 you pirate 19:02 ;) 19:02 No I just don't want the state spying on me 19:02 Call me paranoid 19:02 dude, I have a VM just for testing stuff I download 19:03 I don't mind 19:03 bubbles_nh: There was a serious spam problem a while back and it's not entirely surprising that VPNs that abuse comes from might be blocked. 19:03 hmm, too bad because so many different users could be behind any given VPN endpoint 19:05 I use IvPN which I thought was not disreputable re: spam 19:05 Yolo I don't really care 19:05 but now K2 knows who I really am!!!! 19:06 he's already told us all... your'e screwed bubbles ! 19:07 oh noes 19:07 yep... soon as you log out we all talk smack 19:07 j/k ;) 19:07 also vanilla 3.6 I'm on a maze level +2 from medusa and i can't see a staircase down 19:07 Has something changed 19:07 ? 19:07 if there was anyone i would trust in the interwebz it's probably k2. he seems pretty legit 19:08 -!- Bugpowder has quit [Quit: Bugpowder] 19:08 I've honestly not played vanilla since I discovered slashem (and later dnh; blessed be Chris_ANG) 19:08 no there hsould be a staircase 19:08 err there is a staircase 19:08 until you get to castle there is a staircase down 19:09 bubbles_nh did you try the travel key? 19:09 it's probably under a statue or some rocks 19:09 _ > 19:09 elronnd is making a slashem variant 19:10 Can't find dungeon feature '>'. 19:10 can u dig down ? 19:10 good call 19:10 i'd try to find the stairs first though 19:11 sometimes i've dug down FROM medusa and then end up in middle of castle maze and that can be not fun... but if you dig down on to medusa you should be near the upstair i think 19:11 I have no idea why I couldn't see the stairs 19:11 But I dug down to the castle and found the < 19:11 Really weird but yolo 19:11 oh nice 19:11 oh so you fell past medusa? 19:11 oh you were 2 past her 19:11 nvm 19:12 i wouldn't have given that advice.. but glad it worked out 19:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping a pyramidal amulet on an altar, on T:6427 19:12 Digging down can only end you up at the left hand side of the castle level right? 19:13 also if I have refl do i need to blind against 3.6 medusa? 19:13 yeah... but that can still have you surrounded by minotaurs etc. and have no idea where the stairs are 19:13 you're fine with relfection 19:13 and if you're not invisible it will kill her 19:14 i'm a valk 19:14 Who cares about minotaurs? 19:14 Honestly after playing slashem/dnh so much vanilla feels so relaxed :thinking: 19:14 true... but if you dig down thinking you can still teleport etc. and you end up at the castle it's bad 19:15 *shrug* 19:15 i know... i've been playing evilhack nonstop and just finished my vanilla game finally and it felt relaxing 19:16 hmm, I would review the map of medusa's island 19:16 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Medusa%27s_Island 19:16 there are a few so take your pic 19:16 *pick 19:16 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by reading a book, on T:6457 19:18 i killed her 19:18 But still no levi/water walking/jumping 19:18 so can't really get back 19:19 Which means Destiny demands the blood of demons further on! 19:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (disenchanter), on T:34515 19:20 Look at these blisses and luxidreams doing good things 19:20 with there 10120312398 ascensions 19:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:35216 19:23 Re quaff-testing fountains, http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/magicfountain.txt - anyone care to point out the hilarious error(s) ? 19:23 .org.uk? 19:23 can I trust this url? 19:23 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 6698 points, T:6491, killed by a bolt of fire 19:24 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24 reading 19:24 awfully concerned about fountains for a game you don't play 19:25 rebatela: Uh, you seem now to be criticising me for trying to write spoilers covering an aspect of the game in detail. 19:25 i was talking about going back and dipping in all the early level fountains once you are strong enough... it's the only thing i've ever defended 19:25 Pinkbeast I think there is a strange segue from quaffing to stat increases 19:25 leaving one for a pool of water, and dipping the rest 19:26 "so you get these stat increases" 19:26 the average number of quaffs to determine magical/non magical is only 1 1/4 19:26 that's extremely fast 19:26 But there is no prior explanation for what 2these2 19:26 means 19:26 Also my stupid shift key is broken hence the i/I and 2/" 19:26 " you're the only one who thinks you should save fountains for quaffing" 19:26 meaning odds are you will know before your shit gets cursed 19:26 not everyone here is some expert... i'm trying to give some general advice to people who actually play the game. i'm considering stopping though. because whenever i do, someone has to be contrarian and say something literally no one agrees with and i become the bad uy 19:26 guy 19:26 Anyone who gives advice is bad 19:27 fight me 19:27 lol 19:27 {Demo}2: 19:27 HAHA 19:27 YOU ALl SPOIL IT FOR ME 19:27 I can't see any flaws in this reasoning 19:27 When I first started i assumed gems in chests must be valuable because otherwise they wouldn't be in chests. 19:27 bubbles_nh: Let's pretend there's a link at the top to the Wiki page on fountains so I don't have to reiterate all the mechanics displayed there, but good catch 19:27 This was 17 odd years ago though 19:27 the reason we all no longer quaff is because we ran into so many bad side effects before we learned that dipping potions was so valuable 19:27 i get why some people switch to crawl though. i can't imagine what that channel is like 19:28 Almost silent 19:28 are you like the grand poo ba of crawl? 19:28 so then we tended to favor dipping, but without considering there was a better way to dilute/blank 19:28 so quaffing is better but only when leveled up, I like it, thank you 19:28 You must quaff from a non-magical fountain an average of 5/4 time 19:28 5-4 19:29 5/4 is a not real number? 19:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:36151 19:29 its a real number 19:29 it equals 1 & a quarter 19:29 I'm not sure what you mean, presumably not the formal sense of a "real number" which it is 19:29 it will take 1.25 quaffs on average 19:29 this is the money section of that write up 19:29 You must quaff from a non-magical fountain an average of 5/4 times to 19:29 I'd say it as a fraction 19:29 Errrrrrr 19:29 decimal 19:30 so rewritten to make more sense 19:30 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided class L, on T:36206 19:30 You must quaff from a non-magical fountain an average of 1.25 times to 19:30 I think in discussions of odds I strongly favour fractions because it is clear there has been no rounding. 19:30 "Thus to determine a fountain is non-magical requires an average of 1.25 quaffs" 19:30 i mean it's weird 19:30 Because I don't quaff a fractional amount 19:30 i think giving a % confidence @N quaffs is reasonable 19:31 And in keeping with other stat outcomes (e.g. arti wishing) 19:31 save the fountains until they would be of zero use if they are magical, and then dip in them for dilution. you are strong enough to fight whatever and can find the nymph if it steals something, and you may get a wish.. especially on the early levels 19:31 Why would I ever dip a fountain for dilution though? 19:31 i'd just dig one out/use a moat 19:31 right 19:32 Early game pre-water walking i wouldn't risk it 19:32 i always dig one out 19:32 And wouldn't have enough of a ! stash to care I think 19:32 near my stash 19:32 and then dip in the rest 19:32 anyway...in layman's terms 19:32 ssh sssh 19:32 one second 19:32 about 97% of the time quaffing you will NOT be cursed 19:32 digging one out (sounds dirty, love it ;-) risks not getting any pools sometimes though 19:33 AntiVirus: highlight that fact 19:33 I think if I'm quaffing and care about cursing it's lategame enough for me to be naked and not care 19:33 so it is foolish to avoid it 19:33 Exacto 19:33 since with perfect strategy you will only need to quaff 1.25 times to know what kind of fountain you have 19:33 bubbles_nh: Except ideally one would like to quaff as soon as possible, in order to extract the wishes from fountains as soon as possible. 19:34 its a very small chance of a small risk 19:34 balanced against a very important gain (Stats) 19:34 i knew pinkbeast was a fountain quaffer... i knew it 19:34 Pinkbeast: but the other fountain badness is scary 19:34 haha 19:34 Pinkbeast: I guess it depends on one's outlook 19:34 god who knew fountain quaffing was actually not a joke 19:34 rebatela: Aside from the times I have said, repeatedly and truthfully, that I'm not? 19:34 you don't play nethack anymore, remember? 19:35 1. Each game is winnable and I'm playing it independent of any other game I play. 19:35 it's dumb to even argue about it with someone who quit the game 19:35 2. Each game is a statistical value in the N games that I play. 19:35 hmm 19:35 rebatela: Can you explain how me not having played since June last year makes the analysis there incorrect? That seems a curious assertion. 19:35 is there any way to watch eu games from the US? 19:35 1 = risk averse, gain/risk it weighted towards risk 19:36 jessek: just log into the eu server I think 19:36 <@riker> jessek: no, other thna connecting to eu.hdf 19:36 jessek: Not other than logging into the EU server 19:36 2 = risk it because on average it's grrrreat 19:36 (if that makes sense) 19:36 Both are completely valid 19:36 E.g. wishing +3/+2 19:36 bubbles_nh: Sure - I play to win _this_ game, not _a_ game - no gambles on wish-or-death unless I expect to die anyway. 19:37 But I think the other reasoning is fine too. 19:37 I <3 pinkbeast .... i'm sorry i'm not trying to be a jerk. i enjoy everything you bring to this place. really mean that 19:37 But if you're willing to dip (and if you're not, it doesn't matter), the significant extra risk in quaffing is just the cursed items. 19:37 rebatela: You don't seem to have answered the question. 19:37 yeah... i don't care enough 19:37 Pinkbeast: possibly highlighting that as the key difference is the thing you want to explain more 19:37 i stand by my strategy 19:37 My strategy: IGNORE FOUNTAINS 19:38 Until I really need to dilute 19:38 i'm done recommending it to others though... I'll take my wishes i'm not trying for 19:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Dark One, on T:38465 19:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:38467 19:38 Excepting eden in dnh <3 19:38 Now how the cuss do I get out of this nonsense with no levi or water walking? :-\ 19:38 bubbles_nh: I think the sentence beginning "The other consequences of quaffing ..." explains that. I agree it's not emphasised, but this document is meant to explain consequences of game mechanics, not recommend strategy. 19:39 rebatela: Nothing in the linked document in any way reduces expected wishes from dipping. 19:39 the wiki seems to contradict this. but it has always seemed to me that the fountains disappear more from quaffing. but the wiki says 1/3 chance of each 19:39 perseus gave me a refl shield the little *** 19:39 and i believe it 19:39 but you don't get negative physical effects from dippnig and you do from quaffing 19:40 like so many things doing well with quaffing fountains depends on perfect play 19:40 this is simple shit... at some point there is a risk you are taking and it' safer to dip if you can find water mocassins and a water demon.. 19:40 Mmm. Someone should do a detailed analysis of exactly what those negative effects are. 19:40 like blackjack, you can get better just by consistently following certain rules 19:40 it really leads me to believe youve quaffed many a fountain on DL1 19:40 and then moved on to stone soup 19:40 quaffing without respect to magical or non magical fountains is probably a disaster 19:41 which is why we all stopped 19:41 it punished us 19:41 there's gotta be some degenerate thing you can do in crawl 19:41 I have quaffed many a fountain on DL 1. In about _1993_. Then I stopped, because it kept killing me. 19:41 I'll have to give this a try and report back 19:41 and then you quit the game... gotcha 19:41 but the odds do look right 19:41 do i just swim the moat? 19:42 but damn cursing 1/5th of all my gear does sound brutal 19:42 especially my BoH 19:42 AntiVirus: Depends how small you can arrange "all my gear" to be :-) 19:42 ya that's a factor I can controll 19:42 ... in particular, you'd never do this with a BoH in main inventory 19:42 drop BoH, then quaff 19:43 bubbles_nh are you at the castle? 19:43 Yeah 19:43 first time? 19:43 Between castle/medusa 19:43 first time this game or in my life? :thinking: 19:43 lol 19:43 you asked about swimming the moat, why? 19:43 do you have levitation 19:43 i smashed the drawbridge with a /oStriking 19:43 Nope 19:43 ah 19:43 No levi/water walking 19:43 jumping, freeze water 19:44 Neither 19:44 do not swim 19:44 go back 19:44 I thought I had seen a /oCold but that must have been above medusa 19:44 come back later 19:44 But I'm stuck on medusa level! 19:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:39477 19:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided class h, on T:39597 19:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided class ;, on T:39598 19:46 So reallyno idea what to do here. 19:46 i have a /oWish 19:46 but don't want to waste 19:46 AntiVirus: A gotcha - when you empty out your inventory, be aware of the overflowing fountain result making pools 19:47 ThoughI guess there is a fresh one in the castle so I shouldn't hoard it... 19:47 blessed ?oCharging and levi source i reckon 19:47 A wish on a ring of levi would make me feel dirty though! 19:48 ?of earth then and you can get WW in vlads 19:48 lol 19:49 Gj jt! 19:49 go team @! 19:49 I'm too drunk for this, I shall to the dnh 19:49 grats jilles 19:50 <@Umby> GG jt 19:50 what role are you bubble_nh? 19:50 bubbles_nh 19:50 <@Umby> also don't use a wish if you genuinely don't know what you need 19:51 Ah, in 2006 I did this calculation on rgrn and got the same answer, even though I expressed it differently. 19:51 <@Umby> or if you're at a point where you might be able to polypile for whatever else you need 19:51 valk 19:51 oh that's right 19:51 vanilla ? just plow through right ? 19:51 super lucky valk insanely, got /wishing on XL3 19:51 And found fire brand in mines just lying there.. 19:51 oh i thought you were talking about castle wand!! 19:52 But i can't get to something I can plow! 19:52 I am somewhat stuck between medusa level and the castle with no way to cross water 19:52 Hence I now dnh! 19:52 dnh? 19:53 <@riker> he's switching from his vanilla game to his dnh game 19:53 can you dry out the water with a wand of fire? 19:53 ahh gotcha 19:54 does that work in vanilla? 19:54 no you can freeze it though 19:54 cold works in vanilla 19:54 in EH I noticed you can turn water into a pit with fire 19:54 you've never killed the wizard over water in vanilla, antivirus? 19:54 riker is like my translator 19:54 not sure 19:55 I only ascended once ;) 19:55 you'd know... the first time you think you lost the book, but if you freeze it with wand of cold the book floats to top 19:55 well if you don't have levitation by the time you get to Medusa, I would absolutely burn a wish on it 19:55 True fact I will 19:55 but later 19:55 levitation is a critical ascension kit item 19:55 Quite a promising run 19:55 yeah or wand of polymoprh and get all your ring 19:55 yeah rest man, sober up 19:55 s 19:56 I wasn't even on my ascension run!!! 19:56 I was just smashing stuff 19:56 haha 19:56 or do valley and you're likely to find levitation 19:56 I mean.... 19:56 vanilla is naughty in that regard because you don't know how deep you are (if you know what I mean) 19:56 levitation is a critical descension kit item ;) ;) 19:57 HOT: just randomly found soulmirror 19:57 <@riker> niceeee 19:57 <@riker> binder still? nudziarth time 19:58 <@riker> it will blast you randomly when you take hits and that may not even help lol 19:58 it doesn't say random blasts on hits but I assume itmight 19:58 even then mc3 refl and drain res 19:58 Prob worth it, last run I burnt my head slot on drain res 19:58 The ill-fated demo run 19:59 This time I *will* kill him 19:59 goddamnit. *zero* random shops in the whole dungeon this run 20:00 Porkman: sorry i have stolen all your luck 20:00 and i am playing adom 20:00 vis-a-vis my vanilla /owishing run and my dnh 20:00 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:00 so, this is highly unusual 20:00 oh I can steal luck cross-game 20:01 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:02 i mean 20:02 not that i really need shops by d:49 20:02 <@riker> bubbles: armors in dnethack that are crossaligned do that 20:02 Oh also today I had a technical interview and it went well and now the hr lady is harassing me and i don't know how to tell her to back off :-\ 20:03 riker gotcha - unaligned thing! 20:03 <@Umby> also yeah, you can legit just wait until you get a means of crossing the water to deal with the medusa level 20:03 <@Umby> there's plenty of ways 20:03 <@riker> don't know if that works 20:03 <@riker> I don't think so 20:03 <@riker> I believe that prevents evading but not blasting 20:03 <@Umby> boots, ring, even a potion works if you have a means of mapping your movement 20:03 bubbles_nh: Depends if you're absolutely desperate for the gig or not, I fear :-/ 20:04 Pinkbeast: defo not I think over-eager hr is just part and parcel of jobs nowadays ornot 20:04 It's certainly an interesting position, I'd be senior enough that I get to choose my own job title 20:05 if that makes sense 20:05 The guy I'd be working under (who I have previously worked under in a prior job) chose the title "Chief GPU Scientist" 20:06 I think "GPU Expert Extrodinaire", or "GEE" would suit me fine :thinking: 20:06 <@riker> gee that might be a hard sell 20:06 I mainly just want something with a good acronym 20:06 <@riker> :) 20:07 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 20:07 Graphics Thinker For Optimisations 20:07 alright guys, see ya later, I'm heading home 20:07 Seeya anti! 20:08 good luck with your valk! 20:08 Really Thinking Forwards Mathematically 20:08 any suggestions welcome 20:08 mmm. Don't forget Tim Berners-Lee is content with "Web developer" :-) 20:08 The web...*vomit* 20:08 I don't do networky things 20:08 Only pixels and vertices! 20:08 bubbles_nh the web browses you 20:08 Well, control streams and shaders but yeah 20:08 AntiVirus: sadly with no VPN it does! 20:09 bubbles_nh: Indeed, I just mean, it's quite a modest job title for him 20:09 Pinkbeast: true fact 20:09 Pinkbeast: I'm 20% joking re title 20:09 that's what he likes to be called? what a modest guy 20:09 Wait no, 80% joking. 20% seriour 20:09 we should all be so lucky to be that gifted and influential and not catch a big fat ego 20:10 I can't find the glorious screenshot, two talking heads side by side, one is some bloke at AOL with a fistful of bullshit bingo job title, and the other is "Tim Berners-Lee. Web developer" 20:10 I mean here's a man who can go around being like "the internet, I made that" 20:10 cough murmur not the internet 20:10 kinda a panty dropper if you ask me 20:10 haha 20:10 I'm kidding dude 20:11 some girl..."hey old man what are you all about" 20:11 "I invented the web and html and all that" 20:11 "wanna go to my place?" 20:11 lol 20:11 I think in SF/Bay Area that would actually work 20:12 ok, now I'm going for real 20:12 in the bay area they'd just be like "oh so you have a startup?" "no" "okaaay. seeya then" 20:13 actually it's more like can you pay for my completely broke struggling ass 20:13 and on the other hand a bunch of kinda weird feminist anger ready to just blow 20:14 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) bribed Asmodeus with 69 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:44252 20:14 like I literally sat next to a girl at a bar one night who was yelling at any man she could find telling them they're scum and patriarchs lol 20:15 dating here is somewhat edgy 20:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 69 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:44471 20:15 <@Umby> Niceℱ 20:16 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:44639 20:16 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:44640 20:18 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:44859 20:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:46009 20:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:46012 20:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:46054 20:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:46293 20:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:46295 20:30 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:48718 20:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided gremlin, on T:49345 20:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:49395 20:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 895684 points, T:49421, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nethack/dumplog/1571349796.nh.html 20:36 bubbles_nh: you might use tor for irc 20:36 if your vpn is blocked 20:37 <@riker> congrats luxi 20:37 <@luxidream> ty 20:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] AgentOfAntinous (Kni Hum Fem Law) murdered Epona, her faithful pony, on T:486 20:42 <@Umby> GG Luxi 20:43 <@luxidream> thank 20:44 gratz luxki again 20:45 moon_child: thanks might check 20:45 Exemption currently works 20:45 but now 2am and hr interview tomorrow at 11am so I must to bed/sleep nn and fair winds to you all! 20:46 <@riker> night! 20:47 -!- ichbinmiah has quit [] 20:51 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 20:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 21:09 !who 21:09 FIQ: [hdf-us] zoya [nh363] Bliss56 [nh363] Grouchy [evil] dbanethacker [evil] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 21:09 -!- jessek has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:09 heh thanks rebatela 21:10 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Fire Brand bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:61480 21:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Pri Elf Mal Cha) rejected atheism by consulting with the priestess of Ptah, on T:4656 21:13 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) genocided master mind flayer, on T:61493 21:16 ironic comment from dungeon.def Gehennom section: "Now re-worked for 3.1, hell is hopefully going to be a little less boring." 21:26 <@riker> hm, k2 do evilhack eyes of the overworld block all gaze attacks in the next version? 21:28 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 6261 points, T:5157, killed by a bolt of fire 21:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Inc Mal Law), 1671 points, T:383, quit 21:44 @riker current version, yes 21:44 most gaze attacks 21:44 the important ones anyways 21:44 <@riker> beholders? 21:44 yeah 21:44 <@riker> what doens't it prevent? passives? 21:44 more like NiceHack am I right? ;-) 21:45 yes i turned evilhack into carebearhack 21:45 you're welcome 21:45 (FTAOD I actually think this is a good change, crappy quest artifacts are a real disappointment) 21:45 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/355900699790d8555665a6e8c9965d609e5c3cb4 21:45 ^ what changed 21:47 <@Umby> Gaze-blocking artifact lenses should be a vanilla thing anyway 21:47 <@Umby> imho 21:47 -!- ichbinmiah has joined #hardfought 21:48 <@riker> they block archon gazes, not sure how many other gazes are there in vanilla (floating eyes, medusa, pyrolisk?) 21:48 umber hulk 21:48 baalzebub stun gaze 21:48 Baalzebub 21:48 floating eye :-) 21:49 damn you and your perfect grasp of the english language 21:49 Albeit my imperfect ability to read the words "floating eye" five lines above :-( 21:49 :P 21:49 brb 21:52 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:2798 21:52 aosdict: except it's correct 21:53 Hell used to be even worse 21:53 more levels and less special levels 21:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Inc Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1642 21:53 Hell was basically similar to the mazes between Medusa and Castle except lack of fire resistance was an instadeath 21:54 and it had the occasional fakewiz, one of which held the actual Wizard 21:55 <@riker> don't forget no downstairs 21:56 3.0.x also had vlad's tower in the same format the current wiztower is in, except with a direct entrance 22:01 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) signified by divine providence, was chosen to carry Excalibur, on T:5747 22:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Arc Inc Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2603 22:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 106812 points, T:23614, quit 22:13 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 195 points, T:123, killed by a human zombie 22:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:1196 22:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) rejected atheism by offering a rabid rat corpse on an altar of Anhur, on T:3626 22:18 hmm I found my old dungeon overhaul document 22:19 I still agree with almost everything in it so I suppose it makes for an useful reference for future fh dungeon development 22:19 http://home.fiq.se/overhaul.txt 22:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon her by Ptah, on T:5047 22:28 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed rustproof +2 frost brand", on T:2709 22:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (disenchanter), on T:3383 22:34 <@Umby> Don't squander that luck buddy boy 22:35 <@Umby> You quit a decent monk and scummed a wiz, you're obligated to see this through 22:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2671 points, T:3550, killed by a giant ant 22:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Pri Elf Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:10120 22:38 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 22:40 aosdict: mines end can have a loadstone inside the diagonal chokepoint, rendering you stuck 22:40 ... yes? and this is the case in vanilla? 22:42 I was reding through your frustration article 22:42 and figured it was worth to mentioning with regards to your comments on diagonal chokepoints 22:42 it does mention mimic of the mines specifically though 22:43 I suppose that might be enough 22:43 but I didn't realize the loadstone thing until someone actually pointed it out to me 22:44 yasd is one thing but I do not like cases where you can easily by mistake put your game in a nearly-unwinnable state 22:44 You can also find a cursed ring of levitation and be trapped on the top level of a branch with an angry god 22:45 only in Sokoban is this a major problem because in all other situations is this a corner case 22:50 -!- StinkyGreene has joined #hardfought 22:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Inc Mal Law) was given Xiuhcoatl, on T:12403 23:02 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8708 23:04 -!- StinkyGreene has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:08 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:17 <@riker> hey @Tone somebody who posts on r/nethack apparently watches your stream 23:22 Autogenerated subtitles strike again 23:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Inc Fem Law) killed Croesus, on T:14431 23:29 @riker isn't tone 'somebody who posts on r/nethack' himself? 23:29 <@riker> is that him? 23:29 <@riker> I didn't think he was "hopelesspostdoc" 23:30 no, I just mean that tone uses reddit 23:32 <@riker> ah 23:33 -!- ichbinmiah has quit [] 23:35 <@luxidream> he posted his lp to reddit 23:35 <@luxidream> so it makes sense that redditors would watch it 23:39 <@Umby> OH MY GOD 23:39 <@Umby> Why did no one tell me 23:40 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/634596530535268352/Screenshot_2019-10-17_at_23.39.52.png 23:40 <@Umby> :GWmemetownOMEGALUL: 23:40 <@Umby> I'm fucking dead 23:42 <@riker> that happens 23:42 <@Umby> Literally called it though 23:42 <@Umby> And against team a no less 23:43 what even is gwmemetownomegalul 23:43 and why is it only umby that ever uses it 23:43 <@riker> GW memetown omegalul 23:43 that doesn't really shine any light riker 23:44 <@Tone> @riker ha, that post is pretty funny 😄 23:44 <@riker> it's an emoji that looks like something wack 23:44 <@riker> either coffee grounds or a singular handcuff? 23:45 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/634597807851831316/Screen_Shot_2019-10-17_at_8.45.02_PM.png 23:45 <@Tone> It's a very distorted "LUL" face I think 23:46 <@riker> ah yeah probably 23:46 <@riker> looks like his mouth hella stretched 23:49 -!- APic has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Inc Fem Law) was given their Quest, on T:17141 23:53 alrighty... i'm ready to ascend this thing 23:53 <@luxidream> !who 23:53 @luxidream: [hdf-us] Bliss56 [nh363] spleen [nh363] jonathanhanes [nh363] malor [dnh] rikersan [dnh] Grouchy [evil] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] djm2000 [nh363] 23:53 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 23:53 you know, when i start... sorry luxi 23:54 just have a good feeling this time