00:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 00:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 00:01 Weirdly enough, I might not even use it. I already have the chance to dual wield excalibur with another longsword, and I like having drain resistance. 00:01 <@magicbymcluxey> probably +2 00:01 <@magicbymcluxey> that guy wishes for mjolnir all the time 00:02 Yep, just ID’d it. +2, blessed. 00:02 <@Plisp> can mjollnir screw up your rings? 00:02 Yes. 00:03 <@magicbymcluxey> Depends if you throw it 00:03 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought 00:05 I’ll probably switch to Mjolnir once I’m past Mines End and don’t have to deal with vampires / drainers for a while. For now, I can max my two weapon skill with excalibur / longsword. 00:06 <@magicbymcluxey> !tell Mandevil the cert for scoreboard seems to be invalid 00:06 Will do, @magicbymcluxey! 00:09 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:11 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 996 points, T:1662, killed by an enormous rat 00:15 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 78 points, T:284, killed by a falling rock 00:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8060 00:28 https://imgur.com/R9ywLo2 # OK, I just looked again at the layout of this level 00:34 Hi Master Lich what are you doing in minetown 00:37 Pity they got the stairs the wrong way around 00:42 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has joined #hardfought 00:44 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 00:50 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:3952 00:51 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:00 One of these days I'll remember to leave all the miscellaneous stuff I want to read until I've started a compile. Today is not that day. 01:07 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 2795 points, T:5400, poisoned by a bone orcish arrow 01:08 -!- ais523_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:11510 01:08 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) genocided mind flayer, on T:11511 01:09 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 01:17 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon him by Enlil, on T:23135 01:41 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) killed Slipscale the Betrayer, on T:24242 01:43 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) killed Voanairruth, on T:24273 01:45 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:48 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:24403 01:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed amulet of reflection", on T:54877 01:58 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a xorn, on T:55129 02:06 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 02:23 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) bribed Asmodeus with 288 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:56198 02:33 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 95 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:57365 02:41 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) polymorphed his first item, on T:26900 02:43 <@magicbymcluxey> !who 02:43 @magicbymcluxey: [hdf-us] jonathanhanes [nh363] AntiVirus [nh363] oh6 [nh363] Ardub [spl] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 02:48 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) killed the Failure Eidolon, on T:27321 02:48 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:57 [hdf-us] [nh363] AntiVirus (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1528 points, T:3228, killed by a soldier ant 03:00 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] AntiVirus (Sam Hum Mal Law), 229 points, T:896, killed by a water moccasin 03:14 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:15 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:60030 03:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:60036 03:16 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (master lich), on T:60045 03:19 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Enlil, on T:28821 03:47 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:52 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 04:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 04:11 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought 04:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris__ANG] by ChanServ 04:14 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:27 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:31 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 04:40 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 05:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Ran Gno Fem Neu), 1308 points, T:2070, killed by a wolf 05:41 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:15991 06:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 270 points, T:901, killed by a gnome 06:28 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:33 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:33 -!- joes has joined #hardfought 06:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Ran Gno Mal Neu), 401 points, T:1000, killed by a water moccasin 07:40 R.I.P. 07:56 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha) killed the Aobe, on T:3431 08:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 08:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 08:08 -!- workimer is now known as lorimer 08:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Helping Hand", on T:71534 08:19 that's a nice graffiti, "Giant bats turn into giant vampires" 08:19 false rumour 08:25 does ring of poison resistance even exist? or am I Hallucinating again 08:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] mmj (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:3540 08:26 It exists if you don't need one. 08:27 just Wiztesting.. 08:27 e - an uncursed ring of poison resistance 08:29 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 08:34 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:35 naming your pets in CAPITALS so they sound more hardcore 08:37 WHOOPSIE-DAISY! 08:38 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha) averted death, on T:5250 08:40 * NHrsa abhors latin spelled on lower case letters 08:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] mmj (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:5300 08:44 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha), 25565 points, T:5387, killed by a monster (play naga), while paralyzed by a monster's gaze 09:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:55140 09:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:56489 09:23 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:7454 09:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] mmj (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:6989 09:27 lol, I inadvertently destroyed a minetown shopkeeper's door and they came after me with a wand of death 09:27 I manoeuvered it so they killed themself 09:27 the watch either didn't see it or didn't care 09:28 so now I have a wand of death and an empty shop (small deli, not very interesting) 09:28 And a bucket of gold, presumably. 09:29 Even deli shopkeepers are loaded. 09:29 yes, more than 3K total now 09:29 and a key, which I also didn't have yet 09:29 How'd you dodge that? 09:29 <@riker> @d?orc of the ages of stars 09:29 No such monster. 09:30 Andrio: backed into a corner, wearing CoMR (I'm an orc wiz) 09:30 Ah 09:30 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:7998 09:31 now my cats are murdering the watch 09:32 FIQ: so... you lose alignment if attacking from E? 09:32 In 3.6.1 you do. 09:32 O_o\ 09:32 well. 09:32 use a scroll of scare monster 09:33 "You have violated your moral code, losing 30 points of alignment, starting on turn 3181." 09:34 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:34 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed Famine, on T:40683 09:34 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:57462 09:35 [hdf-us] [fh] elunara (hackedhead) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 33415 points, T:3183, quit 09:35 <@magicbymcluxey> FIQ ported over 3.6 elbereth 09:36 3.6.? 09:36 Big difference... 09:36 <@magicbymcluxey> 3.6.1 09:36 <@magicbymcluxey> no one talks about 3.6.0 elbereth 09:37 except the 3.4.3 diehards 09:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed amulet of reflection", on T:8493 09:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 1865612 points, T:40712, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/H/Hill/nethack/dumplog/1568363072.nh.html 09:40 <@riker> !lastgame bubbles dnh 09:40 @riker: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bubbles/dnethack/dumplog/1570470026.dnh.txt 09:52 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by The Lady, on T:2674 09:55 [hdf-us] [slex] metanite64 (Che Ele Mal Cha), 57 points, T:89, killed by a poisonous corpse 10:00 [hdf-us] [slex] metanite64 (Che Ele Mal Cha), 40 points, T:222, killed by a monster (black pudding) 10:12 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Arc Dwa Mal Neu) made his first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:4534 10:12 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Arc Dwa Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (two random monsters from class a), on T:4535 10:13 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed Dispater, on T:49096 10:14 [hdf-us] [evil] Everdying (Arc Dwa Mal Neu), 1842 points, T:4549, killed by a giant mosquito, while sleeping 10:20 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha) averted death, on T:146 10:28 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha) averted death, on T:368 10:29 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha), 347 points, T:376, killed by a monster (water demon) 10:29 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 10:31 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha) averted death, on T:46 10:32 -!- bartlem has joined #hardfought 10:33 @K2 Having a problem with nethack on hardfought, twice it has gotten stuck in an endless loop while picking up an object 10:33 vanilla? 10:34 it prints only the first part the line: 10:34 3.6.3 vanilla 10:34 ok 10:34 are you still in game or did you save and logout? 10:35 i wanna have a look at your latest ttyrec 10:35 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:35 still in game so you can see it 10:35 ah ok 10:35 <@magicbymcluxey> happened to jonathanhanes too 10:35 doh 10:35 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/631137711214034968/image0.jpg 10:36 yeah i see it 10:36 both times burdened 10:36 both instances are in curses mode 10:36 <@magicbymcluxey> any recent dev team commits that could have caused this 10:36 do this: save game, change cfg for regular tty, see if it still happens 10:36 luxi yeah 10:36 it seems to be the continuation 10:37 cant save 10:37 I wonder what happens if you hit escape on that. 10:37 Whether it'd blow up the server. 10:37 bartlem try to esc out of it 10:39 that worked, thanks 10:41 bartlem did it kick you out or just end the loop 10:41 * K2 is reporting all of this to devteam 10:41 Ah 10:55 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha), 4450 points, T:3507, killed by a monster (Sleipnir), while sleeping 10:57 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (mind flayer), on T:4462 10:57 [hdf-us] [slex] metanite64 (Che Ele Mal Cha), 3449 points, T:2049, poisoned by Verier 11:01 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought 11:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v remirol] by ChanServ 11:04 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Sam Hum Mal Law) bribed Asmodeus with 1101 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:53159 11:12 hackedhead: yes 11:12 in fiqhack too 11:14 -!- jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 11:15 bartlem, jonathanhanes_ - offical bug report sent to devteam 11:15 for those that are curious - https://termbin.com/vt1x 11:29 -!- workimer has joined #hardfought 11:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v workimer] by ChanServ 11:32 -!- remirol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:37 -!- workimer is now known as lorimer 11:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed Mammon, on T:78760 11:42 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:58828 11:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:58830 11:46 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 11:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 928 points, T:1478, killed by a dingo 11:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the invisible Dispater, on T:78904 11:55 FIQ: thanks, i hate it. =P 12:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed Graz'zt, on T:79114 12:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 12:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 12:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:60030 12:04 [hdf-us] [slex] metanite64 (Che Ele Mal Cha), 2407 points, T:2081, killed by a monster (water demon) 12:04 -!- AntiVirus34 has joined #hardfought 12:06 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:855 12:06 ^ very lucky 12:06 8) 12:06 tell me about it 12:07 altar converted with one corpse 12:07 gifted magicbane with second corpse 12:07 but the chances of magicbane are low? This is the fist time I've had it in EH 12:08 the lower level you are, the less chance of being gifted an artifact 12:08 oh cool so there's some progression through the game 12:08 yes 12:08 I like it 12:09 incentive to increase your exp level 12:09 yeah I'm only lvl 4 12:09 hah 12:09 roughly 10% chance of getting an artifact sac gift 12:09 at that level 12:10 well, two feet later some werewolf summoned all his buddies. X-P 12:10 so who knows how long I'll keep the thing 12:10 :) 12:10 I had a samurai pick up Tsurugi of Muramasa and dissect me on the first strike 12:11 that's supposedly 5% 12:11 :) 12:11 [hdf-us] [slex] Kaiju (Nin Gha Mal Cha), 1198 points, T:467, killed by a monster (Ms. Manlobbi, the shopkeeper) 12:11 was 100% in that instance ;) 12:11 exactly lol 12:11 I was so mad 12:11 oooh! bouncing magic missiles cause damage to players 12:11 lol 12:11 any magic missiles do 12:12 in evilhack (and sporkhack) MR only reduces damage from magic missile 12:12 normally with MR you can just fire in any direction 12:12 not anyhmore 12:12 *anymore 12:12 reflection helps also but reflection does not fully reflect everything 12:12 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 478 points, T:918, killed by a magic missile 12:12 thats why endgame is so dangerous 12:13 *sigh 12:13 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:13 you get surrounded by angels, you are in serious jeopardy 12:13 :/ 12:13 lol 12:13 does purple worm spam still work? 12:13 my fault I got greedy and started picking up sacrifice corpses 12:13 the RNG giveth, the RNG taketh away 12:13 jonathanhanes_ yes 12:13 and there was one more jackel 12:13 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:13 -!- jonathanhanes_ is now known as jonathanhanes 12:14 oh for sure 12:14 here's magicbane, and 10 jackals 12:14 * K2 cracks open src/monst.c nad makes all angels MZ_HUGE 12:14 and a wand of magic missile to shoot them, and yourself with 12:14 *and 12:14 weren't biblical angels supposedly giant anyway? 12:15 they also caused fear 12:15 EPI - fear for players 12:15 thats actually a thing in vanilla i believe but its super rare 12:16 seems kind of deadly on astral 12:16 i've only ever seen it if a monster attacks you with magicbane 12:16 oh interesting, never had it happen 12:16 would require you to basically stay blinded while there 12:16 <--- could be wrong 12:16 I could see angels having a blinding attack like archons 12:17 but that might be more tedious than anything 12:17 [hdf-us] [gh] Lachtain (Kni Hum Fem Law), 714 points, T:1421, killed by a dwarf's wand 12:17 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 12:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 600 points, T:1544, killed by a giant bat 12:23 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:25 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 12:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:44532 12:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:44539 12:27 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:29 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) had a staff entrusted to him by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:20291 12:31 -!- phinxy has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:36 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had a quarterstaff entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:8717 12:39 hackedhead: you're welcome! 12:40 fh's alignment record tweaks are inspired by 4k, which is infamous for how it handles alignment record 12:40 but I wanted to avoid making it utterly impossible to fix 12:40 unlike 4k 12:40 <{Demo}2> just call it bad 12:41 hence why it greatly reduces alignment record when reducing it 12:41 rather than completely removing ways to gain alignment 12:41 i like the emphasis on alignment 12:43 <{Demo}2> i think whatever fh does was relatively ok 12:43 <{Demo}2> cause i dont remember getting to annoyed by it 12:44 !tell ais523 how well would a ssh connection cope with terminal background animations? for example, one thing Caves of Qud does that I was considering stealing for Knight benefit was a brief "z" "blink" for sleeping monsters. Another example (that I am not considering porting, but I'd like to know how well it'd perform) is PMD border blink on low HP 12:44 Will do, FIQ! 12:46 <{Demo}2> i am sending this from rdp tunneled over ssh. i can't see background animations being a big deal if it can handle this on a good connection 12:46 basically, increasing symbol/color count by flashing different appearances for some or several tiles 12:46 {Demo}2: well it depends on how many there is 12:46 like... for example, consider slex hallu 12:46 what if, like in brogue, it flashed the walls once a second? 12:46 that's a ton of tile updates 12:47 would network be able to keep up? 12:47 <{Demo}2> isn't the bottleneck the terminal emulator though? 12:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed Daemon, on T:79808 12:47 I am pretty sure ssh is 12:47 <{Demo}2> at being slow at updating itself when its told to 12:47 <{Demo}2> i dont know why that would be if i can run a super smooth rdp session over ssh 12:48 <{Demo}2> maybe the way it receives what it needs to do to update the terminal is slow 12:48 well I mean 12:48 like, for example, take this weechat session I have open 12:48 holding down scroll keys cause lag 12:48 <{Demo}2> yeah hmm 12:48 and screen tearing 12:49 and then I have emacs in another window 12:49 scrolling there cause no lag whatsoever 12:49 despite roughly the same amount of tile updates 12:49 <{Demo}2> i can scroll in vim fine, yeah 12:49 <{Demo}2> it might be that weechat sucks? 12:50 <{Demo}2> hmm 12:50 IIRC dcss default configuration is different for local vs online play for similar reasons 12:50 autoexplore on local dcss play is smooth 12:50 updating per tile moved 12:51 but if you do it over ssh, default config only updates the screen once 12:51 marking explored tiles with reverse 12:51 <{Demo}2> yeah this seems right 12:51 <{Demo}2> i dont think the bottleneck is the bandwidth of the connection but more the way it handles passing display updates (can run a lot worse than a better protocol tunneled through it) 12:51 oooh... a mithral sting 12:52 <{Demo}2> so i guess it would come down to how much it can handle as a protocol 12:52 {Demo}2: yeah I know network can definitely cope with it in theory 12:52 I mean, smooth online video is a thing 12:52 hence why I specifically mentioned ssh 12:52 rather than "online" 12:52 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:2219 12:52 <{Demo}2> yeah thats actually interesting and im curious how that bottleneck works 12:53 K2 I found a mithril runed dagger, figured this would make a perfect sting 12:53 <{Demo}2> it seems like it has a lot more trouble than it should 12:53 does it keep the material? 12:53 I should clarify, since I mentioned weechat above 12:53 or turn to wood like vanilla? 12:53 that I am using weechat through ssh 12:53 not locally 12:53 it shouldnt no 12:54 otherwise the comparision wouldn't make any sense 12:54 darn, that would be something 12:54 lol 12:54 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:00 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 13:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 13:03 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:05 {Demo}2: a bit of reading seems to show that mosh might work 13:05 oh thank RNG 13:06 an aligned priest 13:06 rather than sending all terminal updates as they come (and thus be very ping-reliant, which I suspect is ssh's problem) 13:06 it merely sends the last terminal window appearance (kinda like VNC for example) 13:06 with UDP 13:07 <{Demo}2> oh lord 13:07 <{Demo}2> looking into it seems cool and might play with it 13:07 obviously that isn't really helpful in my case I asked ais523 about 13:07 because hdf only has ssh :P 13:07 <{Demo}2> yeah 13:08 -!- joes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:08 <{Demo}2> im surprised kerio didnt offer something like mosh for ascrun 13:08 FIQ: even online video is effectively "over ssh" if it's https, which is commonly is 13:09 ssh is purely an encrypted TCP tunnel, nothing fancy 13:09 ergo it has no bandwidth limitations of it's own to impose 13:10 it has a small amount of CPU overhead 13:10 hackedhead: aren't you thinking of TLS 13:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:3743 13:11 FIQ: yes and no. functionally SSH and TLS are just ways to initiate an encrpyted TCP tunnel 13:11 what hackedhead is saying sounds right to me 13:11 and I'm certified 13:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:3758 13:11 <{Demo}2> latency is the concern 13:12 sorry I mean SSL 13:12 <{Demo}2> also im pretty sure tls/ssl is better optimized for latency than ssh 13:12 {Demo}2: ssh doesn't really introduce any _additional_ source of latency. 13:12 {Demo}2: no. 13:12 SSH =/= SSL 13:12 hackedhead: https is http using TLS 13:12 or SSL 13:13 FIQ: that's a true statement, yes. it's not really a refutation of what I'm saying though. 13:13 <{Demo}2> i need to decrypt my stream to have usable data, thats latency 13:13 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) became literate by reading a book, on T:4540 13:13 ssh is closer to telnet using TLS, except the protocol itself (disregarding the security aspect) is different 13:13 <{Demo}2> i also need to encrypt it before i send it, thats latency 13:13 you can use ssh as a proxy but that's different and you still need a ssh server for it 13:13 you don't need a ssh server for https 13:14 {Demo}2: the encode/decode step do incur a small about of CPU overhead (latency). it's almost certainly _dwarfed_ by regular internet latenct in the majority of cases 13:14 correct ssh and https have nothing to do with eachother 13:14 FIQ: that's all also true but irrelevant to the latency/bandwidth issue. 13:15 AntiVirus34: "nothing" is overstating the case. 13:15 they're not interoperable. 13:15 well you could have an ssh server, and have that same server closed on port 80 and 443 13:15 but they fundamentally do the same thing: produce tunneled TCP streams 13:15 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15 well I agree with you there 13:16 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 13:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 13:16 for the purposes of evaluating sources of latency in a system, they'd be rather similar. 13:17 aysmetric encryption key exchange to establish symetrically encrypted TCP stream. 13:17 [hdf-us] [gh] Everdying (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 1101 points, T:1256, killed by a hobgoblin's bolt of lightning 13:17 <{Demo}2> pretty sure most streamed videos are webrtc tunneled over tls/ssl 13:17 I see what you are saying in that they operate in a similar way 13:17 absolutely they re 13:17 *are 13:18 otherwise, anybody could check out what you're watching 13:18 and see all your prons 13:18 we're moving to were most _anything_ are delivered over tls/ssl encrypted connections 13:18 "tunnelling" isn't really the right word for this 13:18 the problem with ssh for terminal applications I think is that they require too many roundtrips for each terminal update for background animations to be a good idea 13:19 yeah I would be happier to see the word tunnel associated with a VPN 13:19 FIQ: yes. but that is a function of either the app or the terminal emulator, not the SSH connection itself. 13:19 to wit: using telnet would not improve things. 13:19 no, because the problem only occurs over ssh 13:19 <{Demo}2> its a problem with the ssh protocol, the part it uses to render screens 13:20 ascii animations would be sweet though 13:20 {Demo}2: ssh doesn't "render screens" 13:20 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:7050 13:20 that's the terminal emulator. 13:20 <{Demo}2> it gets the things for the terminal emulator to render 13:20 FIQ: it doesn't occur over telnet? 13:20 <{Demo}2> and the way it gets them, the way it asks, isnt very nice 13:20 <{Demo}2> fast 13:20 for example, I'm fairly convinced mosh would solve the issue 13:20 but I can't test it quickly 13:20 i <3 mosh 13:21 because I don't have a mosh server or a good application to test with 13:21 what would a test look like? 13:21 <{Demo}2> the way mosh seems to get those things seems to be a lot better for things that require quick updates 13:21 {Demo}2: pretty much just caching keystrokes, actually. 13:21 hackedhead: for a quick test I was just thinking to make the NH4 border flash in different colors 13:21 {Demo}2: it doesn't behave any differently in the backend, really. 13:22 <{Demo}2> hmm 13:22 FIQ: thing is, mosh doesn't really have the idea of context awareness or anything 13:22 but merely weechat scrolling would work too, to a lesser extent 13:22 it just buffers keystrokes and updates aysnc 13:22 as a test 13:22 see if it still does terminal lag 13:22 FIQ: i use weechat all day everyday inside tmux over mosh and see no lag 13:22 but I also don't see lag using ssh 13:22 so. 13:23 I use weechat inside tmux over ssh 13:23 I see lag if I hold down scroll keys 13:23 lag that emacs doesn't reproduce (so it isn't the terminal updating itself that is the problem) 13:23 or a local weechat session 13:23 I cannot reproduce this, persionally 13:23 (just connected without mosh) 13:24 try holding down a number key 13:24 for channel switch spam 13:24 same no issue 13:24 I get lag when I do this 13:24 what is your ping 13:24 over ssh/mosh 13:24 -!- Chris__ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:24 mine is 166ms 13:24 20/30ms 13:25 that would explain your lack of problems 13:25 my VPS is in the US 13:25 I live in Sweden 13:25 okay so, no amount of tricky protocol shenanigans is going to lower your ping. 13:26 <{Demo}2> arent VPSes cheaper in like, not the US? 13:26 obviously not 13:26 but I am fairly confident in mosh removing the terminal lag 13:26 if I were to try it 13:26 so regardless of telnet/ssh/mosh etc, if your input rate exceeds your round trip time, you're gonna have lag. 13:26 because it can bypass terminal updates 13:27 it can only predict simple things 13:27 meaning it only cares for the last appearance of the screen 13:27 FIQ: mosh does nothing but buffer input and update the terminal redraws as async operations 13:27 winny: well my point is 13:27 ssh needs everything 13:27 if I get more data than ssh can handle, things buffer and lag 13:27 tbh my favorite feature of mosh is it doesn't have keep alive timeouts like ssh 13:27 I think mosh would skip a lot of it, removing this lag 13:28 i sleep my computer, wake it up a day later, still connected 13:28 I am not talking about the input delay, I'm aware this can't be removed 13:28 because mosh can't just "know" 13:28 what the server will send 13:28 it is really nice to be able to type a complete sentence without a lot of apparent input lag in mosh 13:29 FIQ: it's not so much "removing" lag as it is "hiding" it. 13:30 hackedhead: if I scroll up in weechat, for example 13:30 ssh needs the complete terminal output from this operation 13:30 before it will continue scroll 13:30 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 13:30 -!- tacco\unfoog is now known as 17SAAGSR6 13:31 -!- 7JTAAMOY2 has joined #hardfought 13:31 rinse and repeat 13:31 also: the real way to solve this problem is to start using a protocol that doesn't use full screen updates as the medium of exchange. 13:31 we need a program that can see into the immediate future 13:31 *that* is what causes the lag and what I don't think mosh needs, because I think it will simply send another keystroke 13:31 like within the future 10 seconds 13:31 not waiting for the complete terminal update 13:31 (i.e. how actual video games do networked play) 13:32 FIQ: yes, correct, but I think that will wreak havoc on something like nethack, because it'll royally eff up the player's feedback cycle 13:32 it doesn't require the complete responses, all it cares for is the last data 13:32 it's not about "requiring" 13:33 mosh still _gets_ all the updates 13:33 it's a layer _over_ ssh, not a replacement 13:33 it just selectively ignores interstitial updates if they're stale 13:33 instead of naively printing every response in order 13:34 (even if that printing will take 10 seconds to print a series of updates that arrived in 300ms) 13:34 are you saying that mosh still require a ssh client + ssh server on both sides to work? 13:34 what's the point then? 13:35 yes, and the point is that it buffers keystrokes and screen updates. providing the _user experience_ of a snappier interface 13:35 but it doesn't actually improve the situation on the wire (in fact it introduces overhead) 13:36 I thought all it did was use a local ssh connection for terminal data (not ping-reliant at all) and its own protocol over the network 13:37 hmm, actually I was wrong. 13:37 TIL 13:38 it does use it's own UDP protocol for the wire 13:38 that was my entire point... 13:39 +FIQ | it merely sends the last terminal window appearance (kinda like VNC for example) 13:39 +FIQ | with UDP 13:39 as I understood it 13:40 it doesn't send the last appearance though 13:40 it has a protocol for producing miminial state updates 13:40 which is what makes it fast. 13:40 but anyway, it does rely on SSH to initiate the session 13:41 https://mosh.org/#techinfo and search for "SSH" 13:41 huh. mosh is way more involved than I recalled when I first read about it. 13:41 very clever. 13:41 hackedhead: my assumption was that mosh, connection-wise, needed ssh on the server side 13:41 to initialize a terminal session 13:41 it does, yes, in the class mode, correct 13:42 but the client doesn't need ssh 13:42 in theory you could swap that for another auth/init process, but. 13:42 right 13:42 the mosh client might have an ssh client baked inn 13:42 (like dropbear or something) 13:42 i mean, it's kind of a meaningless thing to say though. ssh is way more available than mosh 13:43 it's not as if "you only need mosh not mosh+ssh" really changes the landscape of availability for anyone 13:43 mosh is going to be "harder" to acquire than ssh 13:43 on the client side. 13:44 (just by virtue of being less well known, more niche) 13:44 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:44 hackedhead: I wasn't remarking this due to availability 13:44 so I don't get why that matters. 13:44 but rather to remark that it doesn't use ssh over the network 13:44 yes, I was incorrect. 13:44 it has it's own UDP protocol, not an ssh tunnel as I though 13:44 thought( 13:44 *** 13:46 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had a glittering spellbook given to him by Anhur, on T:3417 13:46 hmm, mosh apparently tries to be clever with input 13:46 nou 13:46 this sounds like a good way to fuck up complete terminal applications 13:46 err i was scrolled up 13:46 such as NetHack 13:46 FIQ: I was thinking that; it is disableable. 13:47 What, Anhur, a gift for me? You shouldn't have. Oh...detect unseen...well yes I've already read it but it's the thought that counts 13:47 lol 13:47 are you playing grunthack? 13:47 Evil 13:47 ah 13:47 it likes to gift spellbooks to wizards 13:48 'let me put it in my bookshelf to read later' 13:48 But if I understand what it does correctly, it would not cause major problems with NH but also almost never provide a benefit 13:48 and I think evilhack uses grunthack as base 13:48 probably so 13:48 Pinkbeast: I don't really care about lack of benefit for clever lagless input 13:48 as long as it's "not worse" 13:48 FIQ: Indeed, I'm just saying what I think it does 13:49 FIQ: it checks if basic keystroke echoing is a valid prediction model and uses it if it appears to be 13:49 but doesn't if not, ergo why it doesn't break nethack. 13:49 I guess it works well for plain console and stuff like weechat, and to a lesser extent text editors 13:49 yep 13:49 but wouldn't work at all for nethack 13:49 and thus it gets turned off. 13:50 It would work slightly, eg when typing wishes 13:50 Pinkbeast: right, but I bet the timescale would be too short for it to change modes. 13:50 hmm 13:51 I wonder how well it'd cope with non-meta nethack 13:51 non-meta? 13:51 where a lot of the input needs #stuff 13:51 ah 13:51 still probably not much 13:51 basically if it's too much for it to reliably turn it off 13:51 hackedhead: If the documentation is to be believed we start a fresh "is prediction working" epoch every time the user presses a key like up-arrow that you might expect to break local echo. 13:51 i'd be shocked if it's not something like conservative exponential backoff 13:52 [hdf-us] [nh363] Hill (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 1028 points, T:4219, killed by a gnome, while sleeping 13:52 so basically it changes prediction mode as soon as it works once/doesn't work once? 13:52 that sounds like it'd be too much for non-meta nethack 13:53 since I imagine it'd flicker each time you use an extended command 13:53 w/e I'm installing mosh atm to see how well it works 13:53 FIQ: No flicker. You start typing hjhjjjhjjj. Mosh doesn't print anything until the server replies to the first h. It didn't print an h at the cursor, no local echo. 13:53 going to try to play nethack on my VPS with it 13:53 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:8312 13:54 Pinkbeast: yeah, but then it's enabled 13:54 once you're done typing it'd still echo a character and then realize "this doesn't work" 13:54 hence flicker 13:54 No, enabled is precisely what it is not in that scenario. 13:54 so there is a wasp that keeps setting off my front yard camera motion sensor 13:55 every 2 min 13:55 Predictive local echo doesn't happen unless it notices the server responses are such that it would have worked. 13:55 Pinkbeast: extended commands 13:55 i know this because I get an email everytime something sets off the motion sensor 13:55 has regular text input 13:55 something mosh would be able to predict if text prediction was enabled 13:55 FIQ: Sure. They might start it. So might wishing. At the end of them you type an Enter and it turns off. 13:55 so if entering an extended command causes it to enable 13:55 ah 13:56 so it disables automatically on non-text keys 13:56 yeah ok, no flicker then 13:56 From the documentation left and right arrow and backspace are permitted as well as printing keys 13:56 nethack input doesn't like left/right keys 13:56 Now, I _guess_ sometimes NetHack can fool it, but not very often; and I don't know if it does implement some long-term backoff mechanism. 13:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:83098 13:57 which reminds me, I should port improved text input from my NH3curses uncursed port to the regular curses windowport 13:57 so left/right/home/end works 13:57 I think this mechanism is only useful if you expect that most of the characters you type will in fact be echoed. 13:59 rebatela did we ever decide if monsters can unlock chests 13:59 I used to work with a bloke with an extremely accurate model of vi's state in his head, which let him type ten seconds ahead of it on slow connections. I was impressed, but I'm glad I never had to develop that. 13:59 I mean did we ever find out 14:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Bar Hum Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:62220 14:00 AntiVirus34: grunthack monsters can loot chest but not unlock them 14:00 fiqhack monsters can unlock them 14:00 I bet it's the same then 14:00 as grunt 14:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:83206 14:00 both using knock/opening and key/lockpick/credit card 14:00 i have already decided on a secret undercover nickname i will use for tnnt 14:01 analboi? 14:01 K2: you should make monsters able to unlock chests 14:01 is that an anagram for something 14:01 FIQ: they can in evilhack 14:01 oof.. 14:01 can they now? 14:01 oh yes 14:01 I need to come up with a better way to stash this finger of death spellbook 14:01 neat 14:01 I found it waaaay too early 14:01 do they piciiki them up too? 14:02 do they pick them up too*? 14:02 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Dragonbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:11612 14:02 AntiVirus34: just checked grunthack code 14:02 and reflection isn't perfect...so finger of death could be deadly to use 14:02 monsters can unlock chests there too, sorry 14:02 i thought the only way to get a key into a monster inventory is let a nymph steal it from you 14:02 I remembered wrong 14:02 k 14:02 but only with tools 14:02 well better to know 14:02 not the spell 14:02 ah 14:02 or wand 14:03 so in any case it makes it harder, reduces chances of a monster getting in to lock a chest 14:03 stenno: monsters pickup unlock tools in grunt 14:03 intelligent monsters in evilhack can unlock boxes/chests and rummage through them. they can also use bags 14:03 take things out/put things in 14:03 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:03 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 14:03 K2: grunthack monsters can loot things from a bag inside another bag 14:03 did you fix this in evil? 14:03 prob not 14:04 neat 14:04 in fiqhack they have to take the inner bag out first 14:04 should they also in vanilla? 14:04 probably not 14:04 FIQ i'll need to test 14:04 and prob look at your solution 14:04 i didnt think of bags within bags 14:04 my solution was a complete AI item use rewrite 14:04 I don't think you can port that easily 14:05 :) 14:05 well, not as much a solution, as much as the fix being a side effect of the rewrite 14:05 it's in muse.c 14:05 in both grunt and fh 14:05 if you're interested in looking into it 14:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:12818 14:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:83294 14:07 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:64235 14:08 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:64247 14:08 oh yeah they can for sure rummage through a locked chest 14:08 it happened in on second, soon as I turned my back 14:09 *in one second 14:09 so much for reducing the odds 14:09 FIQ: yeah I am, thanks 14:09 i pulled over the monsters using containers code from grunthack 14:09 modified of course 14:09 a review of it wouldnt hurt 14:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:64412 14:12 heh, I forgot that I made monsters always consider deathzapping Death to be a bad idea 14:12 because the alternative leaves him with ridiculous amount of max HP if monsters would consider it a buff when hostile 14:12 imho, monsters using containers on the ground encourages boring player behaviour 14:13 (such as unlocking and locking them repeatedly) 14:13 just leave scare monster on it 14:14 hmm 14:14 I guess sacrificing a human on the chaotic altar was a bad idea 14:15 FIQ, another boring thing to do 14:16 AntiVirus34, it's good if you're chaotic yourself 14:16 I was 14:16 but for some reason the priest was pissed 14:16 when I chatted him 14:16 I must have lost alignment doing it 14:16 jilles: all right, so I figured with boring you meant it encourages tedious behaviour rather than strategic/intelligent thinking 14:17 but I don't really see how warding monsters away from things you want safe is tedious 14:17 or the moment they raid your stuff, and use it against you. that's not boring 14:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:64642 14:17 it's annoying because you could have prevented it by doing something boring 14:18 'boring' is a relative term 14:18 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:64649 14:18 fun fact: I considered equipping soldiers in the Castle with striking 14:18 whats boring for you may not be for someone lese 14:18 else 14:18 but I figured it'd be a bit cruel 14:18 I still don't get how I angered this priest 14:18 I'm supposed to gain alignment 14:18 AntiVirus34, there's something bad about chatting to paralyzed or otherwise incapacitated priests 14:19 AntiVirus did you do something prior to lower your alignment? 14:19 the only thing I did prior was a human sacrifice 14:19 blood flows the altar 14:19 as a chaotic player on a chaotic altar 14:19 yes 14:19 it desecrates it 14:19 !whereis AntiVirus 14:19 K2: [hdf-us] AntiVirus [evil]: (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) T:2124 The Gnomish Mines level: 7 14:19 EVEN AS A CHAOTIC PLAYER? 14:19 yes 14:19 meh 14:19 lol 14:19 blame the DT 14:20 chaotic does not always mean evil in nethack 14:20 guess not 14:20 there's still room for Moloch 14:20 in fact in most cases it isnt 14:20 but If I had to guess, my god is pleased.. 14:20 unaligned == evil 14:20 kind of odd 14:20 hmm 14:20 if #technique was a thing 14:21 it just seems odd. I thought we were all down for that here on the Chaos team 14:21 a priest should be able to sanctify coaligned altars 14:21 we've debated this issue here before ;) 14:21 oh well, my mistake 14:21 AntiVirus34: consider this: a rogue doesn't either get a bonus or a malus for shoplifting 14:21 i even asked the devteam point blank and never got a straight answer back 14:21 i dont think even they know 100% 14:21 stenno: but a chaotic non-rogue does get a bonus 14:21 I guess for rogues it's simply just treated as usual behaviour and thus not special 14:22 i assume because stealing from a shop is something chaotic, but its also the 'profession' of the rogue so the rogue is technically behaving lawful 14:22 ok but explain this to me....I can sacrifice, gain alignment and anger my priest all at the same time 14:22 makes no sense 14:22 then again, a healer healing something gives alignment if you're neutral 14:22 God happy, priest mad 14:22 lol 14:23 <@magicbymcluxey> wait how did he anger the priest with same race sacrifice 14:23 <@magicbymcluxey> that's not how it works 14:23 or maybe its just an oversight be the devteam and we are trying to interpret if its intended or not 14:23 now I'm just standing here trying to figure out how not to die 14:24 the priest was chill 14:24 until I chatted him 14:24 feels like back in 3.4.3 :P 14:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:65075 14:24 then it said something like "the priest of anhur wants nothing to do with you" 14:24 and he started attacking 14:24 tame him 14:24 er 14:24 <@magicbymcluxey> he is scared of something 14:24 pacify 14:24 <@magicbymcluxey> did you drop a scroll 14:24 did you drop a scroll of scare monster for BUC 14:24 Talk to whom? (in what direction) 4 14:24 priest of Anhur kicks! 14:24 oh nice, I right-clicked and moved shoot 14:24 lol 14:25 stenno: I thought they fixed that? 14:25 oh man what a mess 14:25 oh, it was a bug? 14:25 iirc it wasn't intended to scare peacefuls 14:25 oh hm 14:25 ok 14:25 makes sense-ish 14:25 HAHA this is a joke, I just prayed and it was definitely safe 14:25 yeah this situation makes no sense 14:26 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 4775 points, T:3949, killed by a bolt of lightning 14:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:84633 14:26 priest of anhur 14:26 ok so then I attacked the priest to try and save my life, then my god finally got angry and killed me 14:26 e95a7096634b0e5d9ddeaf617e52e88cd4099264 14:26 same race sac 14:26 stenno: ^ 14:26 that was so crazy 14:26 thanks 14:27 <@magicbymcluxey> it's definitely not same race sac 14:27 <@magicbymcluxey> unless K2 changed something 14:27 yeah a human shopkeeper 14:27 oh it was evilhack 14:27 um 14:27 by a human wizard 14:27 iirc grunthack changed murder to be same-race rather than human 14:27 <@magicbymcluxey> that should be fine 14:27 wouldn't it make sense to make sacrifice same-race too? 14:27 rather than human 14:27 psudodragon killed the shopkeeper 14:27 no murder for me 14:27 <@magicbymcluxey> there is no way to anger the priest by same race sacrifice 14:28 then I have no idea why he got mad 14:28 a pseudodragon should still incur a penalty for killing humans IMO 14:28 since they're still half human 14:28 psudodragon? no way 14:28 what is a pseudodragon then? 14:28 <@magicbymcluxey> pet 14:28 I thought it was just a weird name for half dragon 14:28 i tihought something like a naga 14:28 oh 14:28 ok 14:28 I don't think they're human. They're a small race of dragon-like critters 14:28 they look like dragons but are much smaller 14:29 <@magicbymcluxey> anyway were you standing on anything 14:29 <@magicbymcluxey> when you talked to him 14:29 https://i.redd.it/lgi2bkvtkt0y.png 14:29 https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/pseudodragon 14:29 on the altar 14:29 I don't get it, that was random as hell 14:29 <@magicbymcluxey> was there anything on the altar 14:29 AntiVirus34, "%s doesn't want anything to do with you!" happens if the priest is fleeing 14:29 I was chatting him up for protection 14:30 maybe EH didn't merge the vanilla patch? 14:30 oh like a scroll 14:30 <@magicbymcluxey> there we go 14:30 <@magicbymcluxey> that was scare monster 14:30 nah I wasnt 14:30 AFAIK 14:30 stenno: but isn't evilhack based on grunthack? 14:30 <@magicbymcluxey> 3.6 14:30 which uses 3.4.3 E and ?oSM behaviour 14:30 oh 14:30 <@magicbymcluxey> no 14:30 ok then 14:31 i though EH was 3.6.x codebase 14:31 he must have been fleeing, who knows why 14:31 actually 14:31 no never mind 14:31 oooh i know why 14:31 <@magicbymcluxey> if you were standing on the altar and there was a scroll under you, it makes sense 14:31 I'm pretty sure there was no scroll on the altar 14:31 there was a change regarding the angering/killing of peacefuls 14:31 in vanilla 14:32 <@magicbymcluxey> they can anger/ cause nearby peacefuls to flee within LOS 14:32 so other monsters of the same race on the level get angry or scared when you kill one of them (LOS is required i think?) 14:32 one of my saved games: 14:32 "a - elunara Rog-hum-fem-cha killed by a rothe" 14:32 Juiblex was summoned 14:32 aaaah 14:32 FIQ: In GruntHack can you kill a non-same-race shopkeeper with no murder penalty regardless of your alignment? That seems wrong 14:33 I was having a good old time clearing out minetown 14:33 ding ding 14:33 I let the pet kill all the shopkeepers 14:33 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 14:33 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 14:33 * stenno wins :D 14:33 took all the cash, and bought much protection 14:33 wait but did you kill them yourself? 14:33 no 14:33 hm then not 14:33 I'm innocent 14:33 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33 damn 14:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:10 14:33 bug 14:34 ah I'm confused 14:34 <@magicbymcluxey> stenno: it would also be hard to kill a shk within LOS of the priest 14:34 too bad, because it was a killer early game start 14:34 did you kill any human in the line of sight of the priest, AntiVirus34 ? 14:34 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 14:34 no no no 14:34 luxi: guard works too 14:34 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "blessed rustproof +2 Mjollnir", on T:11 14:34 the shopkeeper was killed inside the shop out of LOS, and killed by my pet 14:34 but this isn't then 14:34 yeah you don't get punished for the actions of your pet 14:35 <@magicbymcluxey> I've never run into this 14:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:14 14:35 <@magicbymcluxey> I'd wiztest but I don't have 3.6.x built 14:35 could just yolo it lmao 14:35 imma do it 14:35 it was so strange...my god was perfectly happy with me too 14:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fireproof +2 pair of speed boots", on T:23 14:35 he healed me mid fight with the priest 14:35 aosdict: murder in grunthack concerns same race instead of strictly humans 14:35 and then zapped me to death with lighting as soon as I fought back 14:35 grunthack has racial shopkeepers 14:35 only killing ones of your race is murder 14:36 <@magicbymcluxey> if you attack any priest in their temple you take a lightning bolt 14:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:44959 14:36 <@magicbymcluxey> this includes your temple 14:36 lol but i have to be strong enough to kill a guard 14:36 <@magicbymcluxey> just piss him off 14:36 <@magicbymcluxey> it will trigger the response 14:36 no thats not enough 14:36 i think? 14:37 <@magicbymcluxey> no it is 14:37 kk 14:37 yeah I'm reading the "chatting a priest spoiler" 14:37 fun fact: nethack has to do some hackery to keep track of wands when you zap them 14:37 specifically due to the temple response 14:37 it says absolutely nothing about a "wants nothing to do with you" response 14:38 to make sure it doesn't blow up the wand you just used 14:38 <@magicbymcluxey> source dive 14:38 <@magicbymcluxey> but it's the scared priest message 14:38 AH! 14:38 found it 14:38 yes it is because I desecrated the altar 14:38 "If a priest is not in their temple or the temple has been desecrated, #chatting to the priest makes them hostile." 14:38 crud 14:39 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) destroyed Pestilence, on T:84836 14:39 I really have to say this is a confusing case, since otherwise sacrificing same race is totally encouraged for chaotics 14:39 I guess that's just something to remember 14:39 <@magicbymcluxey> uhhh 14:40 <@magicbymcluxey> I've same race sacrificed and never run into this problem 14:40 you didn't chat the priest after 14:40 I guess 14:40 It says it in the wiki 14:40 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Aligned_priest 14:40 "If a priest is not in their temple or the temple has been desecrated, #chatting to the priest makes them hostile. The message you get when entering the temple indicates the state of affairs. This usually applies only to priests in bones files and the peaceful coaligned priests on the Astral Plane, as the priest will already be hostile if you have 14:40 desecrated the temple yourself. Even if you reconvert the temple's altar to the priest's religion and pacify them, they still get angry on chatting." 14:41 <@magicbymcluxey> desecration in this case means you converted the altar 14:41 absolutely not 14:41 <@magicbymcluxey> but let me wiztest 14:41 a human sacrifice on a chaotic altar? 14:41 FIQ: I guess if I were going to implement multiple-race shopkeepers, it would still be murder to kill a shopkeeper of any race because they're "always peaceful". 14:41 found a wow in minetown 14:41 god dammit 14:41 how does that convert it 14:41 well, aside from this quirk... 14:41 <@magicbymcluxey> SPEED 14:41 even got it for free becuase a gnome wizard was kind 14:41 <@magicbymcluxey> RUN 14:41 nah my keyboard is a bit wonky atm 14:42 letting my pet kill everything, and clear minetown shopkeeprs is a solid wizard early game strat 14:42 for EvilHack 14:42 that is so stupid wtf 14:42 i knew that would happen 14:42 fuck 14:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the Lugribossk of Ilsensine, on T:84863 14:42 stenno wut 14:42 also magic market 14:43 marker 14:43 AntiVirus34 pseudodragons got smacked with the nerf bat for 0.4 14:43 it is Done™ 14:43 now i even failed to do the actual objective 14:44 man this is so infinitely stupid lmao 14:44 imma hide for a bit 14:44 haha 14:44 they were definitely OP 14:44 when are you rolling out .4? 14:44 unfortunately i play with !bones so no minetown wow bones for u 14:44 <@magicbymcluxey> I did this in wizard mode 14:45 <@magicbymcluxey> I same race sac 14:45 <@magicbymcluxey> juiblex 14:45 yep yep 14:45 <@magicbymcluxey> then he gives me two bits for an ale 14:45 you had no money 14:45 <@magicbymcluxey> right 14:45 I had like 2.8k and ready to buy protection 14:45 AntiVirus34: wait did you reject to give money to the priest when he asked? 14:45 no no 14:45 ok 14:45 I chatted to give him cash 14:45 <@magicbymcluxey> so desecration != same race sacrifice 14:46 <@magicbymcluxey> there's something else going on here 14:46 well I did get the message saying "blood covers the altar" 14:46 its maybe something evilhackish 14:46 then Juiblex 14:46 so it was co-aligned, chaotic? 14:46 then I went and punked a dwarf for digging in my chest 14:46 i didnt mess with player/priest interactions in evilhack 14:46 came back to buy some protection 14:46 or did you convert someone elses' altar 14:46 got ganked by the god squad 14:47 no this was definitely my aligned altar 14:47 <@magicbymcluxey> like we've said the message you got means he was scared 14:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) destroyed Death, on T:84899 14:47 it must have counted as a desecration 14:47 !ttyrec antivirus 14:47 and when you chat after desecration they get angry 14:47 no, it wasn't the altar 14:47 <@magicbymcluxey> it has nothing to do with your sacrifice 14:48 <@magicbymcluxey> I literally just tried it 😛 14:48 Welcome to the Magic Market! Here we only host magical items 14:48 bad luck then, well thanks for trying it out 14:48 I'm glad it doesn't work like that 14:48 !dump Antivirus evil 14:48 because that would make no sense at all for a chaotic character 14:48 how does that work 14:48 oh is there a way to dump the game? 14:48 <@magicbymcluxey> !lastgame AntiVirus 14:48 @magicbymcluxey: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AntiVirus/evilhack/dumplog/1570551195.evil.html 14:49 !lastgame antivirus nao 14:49 FIQ: No last game for (antivirus,nao). 14:49 !lastgame antivirus evil 14:49 FIQ: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AntiVirus/evilhack/dumplog/1570551195.evil.html 14:49 cool 14:49 !lastgame fiq 14:49 FIQ: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/F/FIQ/nethack4/dumplog/2018-06-01%2000%3A18%3A02%2C%20FIQ-Val-Dwa-Fem-Law%2C%20quit.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/F/FIQ/fiqhack/dumplog/2019-06-14%2022%3A00%3A53%2C%20FIQ-Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 14:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the invisible Center of All, on T:84943 14:50 don't see something at first that would indicate anything 14:50 yeah the message scroll is too short 14:51 I managed to stay alive there for a minute after angering the priest 14:51 K2: DECgraphics doesn't work with curses, it never has 14:51 so why does it try to work on curses? 14:52 why you asking me? 14:52 piously aligned so not strayed 14:52 lol check this scroll 14:52 its all over the map 14:53 god angry hitting me with lighting one second, then healing me the next 14:53 You don't have anything to sacrifice. 14:53 -!- AntiVirus34 has quit [Excess Flood] 14:53 if (priest->mpeaceful && *in_rooms(priest->mx, priest->my, TEMPLE) 14:53 && !has_shrine(priest)) { 14:53 verbalize( 14:53 "Begone! Thou desecratest this holy place with thy presence."); 14:53 -!- AntiVirus97 has joined #hardfought 14:53 /* you desecrated the temple and now you want to chat? */ 14:53 K2: idk, sorry 14:53 Tangles: ^ 14:54 :) 14:54 yeah it must have counted as desecration 14:54 but it shouldn't 14:55 oh wait 14:55 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (Ana And Mal Neu), 6878390 points, T:84974, ascended, having saved the future https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/m/malor3/dnethack/dumplog/1568950508.dnh.txt 14:55 file a bug report 14:55 what about the "terrified unable to move" part when you summon 14:55 juiblex summoned, and terrified me 14:55 and the priest too? 14:55 congrats malor 14:56 contrats 14:56 <@magicbymcluxey> we should review the ttyrec 14:56 ok, blah blah, enough about this YASD 14:56 <@magicbymcluxey> before submitting the bug report 14:58 <@malor> thanks 14:59 AntiVirus97: did you polyself into a monster before? 14:59 no 15:00 ok ttyrec time 15:00 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha) averted death, on T:4071 15:01 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha), 3691 points, T:4092, killed by a monster (red river hog) 15:01 oh is there some record of the tty of the game? 15:01 yes 15:01 always 15:02 suuuhweet 15:02 https://www.hardfought.org/nethack/userdata/ 15:03 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AntiVirus/evilhack/ttyrec/2019-10-08.16:13:15.ttyrec.gz 15:03 this must be it? 15:03 maybe? 15:03 have a look ;) 15:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:45730 15:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:45739 15:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:3476 15:10 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed Eye of the Aethiopica", on T:3480 15:11 errrr 15:11 minetown bug? 15:11 [19;1H[KThis shop is deserted. 15:11 [20;1H[K"Pilgrim, you enter a sacred place!" 15:16 ? 15:16 hah 15:16 tty or curses 15:16 stenno ^ 15:17 no i mean from the ttyrec 15:17 damn i have jettyplay why do i read the plain text file 15:18 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 15:18 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 15:18 I'm over here spinning up a freakin ubuntu vm 15:18 so I can view this 15:18 is there a better way? I'm running windows 10 15:18 there are ttyrec viewers for windows 15:19 jettyplay :P 15:19 ah good 15:19 just use teh googlez 15:19 I doubt a bug that confuses shops and temples would be due to the windowport. 15:19 yes 15:19 oh i see because the shop is adjacent 15:20 adjacent and with broken walls 15:20 oh wow this is cool 15:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming an orange dragon, on T:33514 15:23 i wonder if the shop might be related 15:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:47358 15:24 yeah so first my pet kills a shopkeeper 15:24 I stash some stuff in a chest 15:24 sac the shopkeeper corpse 15:24 go back to regulate on a dwarf that raided my chest 15:24 ahh, jettyplay 15:24 then try to buy protection 15:25 the one thing from NH4 circles that is universally praised 15:25 yeah I figured out how to use jettyplay, this is pretty cool all the games are recorded like this 15:25 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Dea Ang Fem Cha), 5722 points, T:2105, quit 15:26 AntiVirus97: credit goes to ais523 who programmed it 15:27 if (!IS_ALTAR(lev->typ) || !(lev->altarmask & AM_SHRINE)) 15:27 oh yep there are a bunch of missing walls in the temple 15:27 what does that mean? 15:27 i wonder if is_shrine might be false if there's a hole from an adjacent shop 15:27 yeah the room next door is a shop 15:27 and something dug holes in the walls 15:27 Juiblex? 15:28 lets also think the unthinkable and consider that it might be also be EH bug 15:28 again, i didnt mess with priests or altars 15:28 :P 15:28 actually good question 15:28 why was there a hole in the wall in teh first place 15:28 yeah it showed up without my doing 15:28 Juiblex was parked in there 15:29 black naga hatchling looks as if it has a disintegration thingy lol 15:29 but yes there are definitely holes in the wall to the shop next door 15:30 in grunt, dwarves sometimes just dig around with /oDig for the lulz 15:30 DL2: my rogue finds fire brand >_< 15:30 "you experience a sense of peace" 15:30 <{Demo}2> lucky 15:30 entering the temple... 15:30 even with holes in the walls 15:30 even after human sacrifice 15:30 yes 15:31 nothing on the altar 15:31 but the priest might not recognize the temple as her temple 15:31 could be 15:31 so chatting would make her hostile 15:31 but i don't know how to read the related code 15:31 smells like bug 15:31 hackedhead: all right so I got mosh running on my desktop connected to VPS 15:32 too bad, I finally get a good EH game going 15:32 <{Demo}2> hows the moshing? 15:32 not only is there less lag as I expected, but it's actually significantly *worse* on mosh 15:32 <{Demo}2> quick? 15:32 lol, oh well I was probably going to die in another 100 turns anyway lol 15:32 <{Demo}2> wow 15:32 FIQ: what wait? 15:32 there's less lag and it's _worse_ ? 15:32 for example, holding down alt+0 on weechat (causes channel-switch spam) in weechat 15:32 I don't follow 15:33 er 15:33 I meant not only isn't there less lag 15:33 sorry 15:33 anyway 15:33 okay. 15:33 and what's your current ping? 15:33 for example, holding down alt+0 on weechat (causes channel-switch spam) is a bit laggy over ssh 15:33 but causes severe lag over mosh 15:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:5519 15:33 like, it takes 0.5s to update the screen on mosh 15:33 166ms 15:33 still? 15:34 oh wait 15:34 hackedhead: ping is completely untied to ssh and mosh 15:34 there is a message that says the priest is angry when I try to displace her from the altar 15:34 "completely" is overstating the case, but okay. 15:34 no its afterwards 15:34 frame 8863 15:34 'the priest is in the way' 15:34 yes 15:34 I am testing doing the same thing over ssh and mosh 15:35 yes, I follow 15:35 weechat inside tmux inside VPS inside ssh 15:35 vs the same inside mosh 15:35 oh yeah it just says she's in the way 15:35 yup. 15:35 (making sure tmux is detached from the other one just in case) 15:35 that is a but surprising, yes. 15:35 I would have expected mosh to be a _bit_ better. 15:35 frame 882 is where I chat 15:35 I mean 8882 15:35 the predictive text input is kinda neat 15:35 yes 15:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 11345 points, T:5716, killed by a chameleon imitating a fire vortex 15:35 but that's basically the only benefit I get from mosh 15:35 as it is 15:36 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Mon Akt Fem Cha), 13845 points, T:179, quit 15:36 well, session resume is nice 15:36 but that matters more on a laptop 15:36 I guess 15:36 and 8886 "The priest of Anhur doesn't want anything to do with you!" 15:36 but my connection isn't really shaky 15:36 *shrug 15:36 who knows 15:36 I _love_ session permaence 15:36 because I can move between home and work and not have to reinit the session 15:36 it just comes back instantl. 15:37 and then I spend a long time in my inventory looking for an escape item 15:37 but don't have one 15:37 FIQ: not just for "poor" connections, but also for roaming (which is my use case) 15:37 how does that work from a security pov 15:37 it renegotiates the handshake and then reattaches to the session? 15:38 I assume. 15:38 not really clear what your asking. 15:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Juiblex, on T:54674 15:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:66122 15:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:66123 15:45 TIL the message 'You realize you made a boo-boo' is in nethack 15:45 hallu msg? 15:46 hallu saccing the fake ammy on the high altar 15:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:13886 15:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] zoya (Sam Hum Mal Law) bribed Baalzebub with 471 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:55074 15:49 hackedhead: tried NetHack, autoexplore in FIQHack causes noticeable lag too, something I never experience at all with ssh 15:49 to the same server 15:50 however, aside from lag, mosh has no problems with NetHack, so there's that 15:50 oh wait, it does 15:50 text input causes display errors 15:54 i think K2 thinks that creating a ghost when entering an empty temple is from xnethack 15:54 at least this comment implies it 15:54 no 15:54 good day to you sir 15:54 I said good day 15:55 lol 15:55 :) 15:55 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) genocided two random monsters from class J, on T:50600 15:55 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/src/priest.c#L527 15:56 scary_ghost() is an xnethack creation 15:57 <{Demo}2> scary 15:57 boo 15:57 but it is precisely the vanilla code but refactored 15:57 ah 15:57 lol 15:57 right 15:57 so i guess you give aos the credit of refactoring 15:57 that is very kind 15:57 as i (or anyone) should 15:58 amy comment: /* hahah I stole this! weeeeee fleecy! */ 15:58 :P 15:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (Con Bat Mal Cha), 7091 points, T:2684, killed by a rope golem 15:59 @malor congrats earlier on your dnh ascension 15:59 maybe the demon scared the priest 15:59 <@malor> thanks 15:59 it kinda got lost in the convo 16:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00 just in time for the rld crash 16:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 16:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 16:00 <{Demo}2> im done ascending nethack. im just gonna give the amulet to the wrong god as a protest against my dumb gods always giving me shit artifacts 16:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Death, on T:66649 16:01 make a boo-boo and sacrifce the plastic ammy 16:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Famine, on T:66711 16:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 13086 points, T:7542, killed by a white unicorn 16:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 3085794 points, T:66719, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/s/samiam/nethack/dumplog/1570137086.nh.html 16:06 if only i knew how the room code works 16:06 <{Demo}2> how did a dungeon goer get a coconut? 16:07 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Mon Akt Fem Cha), 47169 points, T:600, quit 16:08 european swallow? 16:08 hmm african swallow i think 16:08 without actually understanding stuff, i assume that its caused by the deserted shop adjacent to the temple and with holes in the wall 16:11 so possibly this is a bug with the room code 16:12 otherwise the priest is doing what it is supposed to do if it thinks it is outside it's temple 16:12 yeah that makes sense that it's the holes in the wall. 16:12 I chatted for protection prior to there being holes 16:12 and that was ok 16:13 after there were holes, not ok anymore 16:14 holes itself are normally fine 16:14 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:2204 16:14 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (10 times), on T:49384 16:14 right, but you're thinking it was holes into an abandoned shop 16:15 <@Tone> Should be easy to recreate those conditions in wiz mode 16:15 right and you won't have to bother with the human sacrifice part 16:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:2687 16:18 i don't have an evilhack installation 16:19 it sounds like it could be in vanilla 16:19 since it's just shops, chatting, temples, and priests 16:19 unless I'm missing something 16:20 are you not talking about something that was discovered in vanilla? 16:20 this was found in EvilHack 16:20 I had an unexpected death. The co-aligned priest became unexpectedly angry when I chatted with it 16:21 and there seems to be no reason for it, except there were holes in the wall of the temple into an abandoned shop 16:21 <@Tone> You already ruled out scare monster scrolls right? 16:21 yes ruled out 16:21 I was definitely not standing on anything 16:21 oh good, I thought it was xnethack and that would mean I was on the hook 16:22 nope, it's either vanilla or EH 16:22 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:10699 16:22 I think vanilla 16:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (Bin Swn Fem Non), 1093 points, T:1052, killed by a gnome 16:23 FIQ: I do not experience any of these problems with any variant of nethack that I've tried using mosh 16:23 for several years now 16:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (Bin Swn Fem Non), 117 points, T:221, killed by a poisonous corpse 16:24 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Pri Rod Fem Cha), 12822 points, T:236, killed by a cowardly attack on her breasts 16:25 is there a vanilla MT layout with the temple adjacent to a shop? 16:25 <@magicbymcluxey> yes 16:26 <@magicbymcluxey> town square 16:26 <@magicbymcluxey> bazaar town 16:26 yep it was the town square level 16:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3980 16:27 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:15218 16:29 maybe the ancient thingydragon scared the priest 16:29 does it have a breath attack? 16:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor3 (Bin Swn Fem Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:900 16:31 no 16:32 and they were peaceful with eachother 16:32 could have been hit by a ricochet 16:32 i mean there must've been something that put those holes into the wall 16:33 [hdf-us] [slex] MaxLunar (Pri Rod Fem Cha), 19462 points, T:636, killed by a monster (tricket) 16:33 i still don't really understand what it could be 16:33 <@Tone> Didn't you say there was a dwarf? 16:34 oh must've been that dwarf 16:34 yeah 16:35 orc invasions canonically put holes into walls in minetown :) 16:36 hackedhead: the issue is only visible in variants using curses interface 16:37 basically, the problem is that text after the input is displaced as if it was part of the input box 16:37 which isn't a problem in tty because there isn't a text box -- you get an entire line solely for input 16:38 but is a problem in curses interface or NH4, because only part of the line is reserved for text input 16:38 if you were to use a text editor with vertical splitting, you'd see similar display errors 16:39 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 16:40 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 16:40 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 16:40 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 651 points, T:1504, killed by a water moccasin 16:41 well i give up for now 16:41 yeah that's fine, I don't expect to see that one again 16:41 * stenno checks the homebrew recipe of nethack for the version 16:41 could it be a bones level? 16:41 AntiVirus97: well but it would be really really interesting what actually happened 16:42 yeah it would 16:42 I think it was that dwarf 16:42 FIQ: the priest was peaceful before though 16:42 it dug through two shops and got into my chest and grabved a stack of loot 16:42 no bones 16:42 stenno: there are ways to pacify a priest 16:43 after desecrating a temple 16:43 hmm 16:43 how? 16:43 it would have been cool to know how to save my game 16:43 charm monster 16:43 taming 16:43 right 16:43 (as it was said) 16:43 I had neither 16:43 but good to know for the future 16:44 the overview just says Final resting place for 16:44 you, killed by a bolt of lightning. 16:45 yeah when I saw that running was not going to work 16:45 I tried fighting 16:45 which was a bad idea 16:45 because then it brought the thunder 16:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] theFreightTrain (Val Dwa Fem Law), 165139 points, T:16106, choked on a mind flayer corpse 16:47 the only way to sense a desecrated temple with a peaceful priest 16:47 if the altar remains coaligned 16:47 is the entry message 16:48 if you have a strange forbidden feeling 16:48 you merely have crappy alignment record, or you're crossaligned 16:48 if you have a forbidden feeling 16:48 (not strange) 16:48 then it's desecrated 16:48 ok. from backscroll, the wizard's pseudodragon won't attack a priest 16:49 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49 now, it is defintely NOT easy to recreate 16:49 but i managed 16:49 oh? 16:49 i could not get an angry priest 16:49 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 16:49 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 16:49 stenno: what ttyrec did you use to check what was going on? 16:50 +FIQ there was no message of forboding 16:50 one odd thing is that if i stood where the shop wall used to be, the priest would not come near enough to chat 16:50 played it back with jettyplay 16:50 can you link the ttyrec? 16:50 FIQ: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AntiVirus/evilhack/ttyrec/2019-10-08.16:13:15.ttyrec.gz 16:50 prior to all this I had sacrificed my same race 16:50 as a chaotic player 16:50 that's why Juiblex is there 16:51 i didn't gate in juiblex 16:52 yeah that part wasn't very intentional, it's just worth noting 16:52 one reason this is hard to recreate is that i had to create dwarves to dig through the wall 16:52 I was a bit excited at the chance to do a human sac 16:53 Aligned priest spoiler says if you desecrate the altar, or the priest is not inside their temple when you chat them, they become hostile 16:53 so when you create a dwarf, IF it has a pickaxe or mattock, it won't necessarily dig where you want 16:53 so its one of those two things I expect 16:53 mis-identified altar desecration, or temple open to vacant shop 16:53 yes i'm familiar with the spoiler, having once encountered a hostile priest in minetown 16:54 well i'm gonna say the open shop isn't the issue 16:54 that's the part i tested 16:54 you know what i am wondering 16:54 nice 16:54 never mind 16:54 nothing 16:54 ah well i will get something to drink and then sleep 16:55 another odd thing: my wand of probing wouldn't read the priest from outside the temple 16:55 yeah it seemed completely random, and made me wonder if I screwed up by sacrificing a human 16:55 or at least, from the shop 16:55 what was he scared of 16:55 hmm 16:55 thing is he became scared 16:55 Juiblex causes feenw hen summoned? 16:55 *fear 16:55 si you should be able to see somthing 16:56 there is a message to that effect I think when I summoned him 16:56 yes but thats only for you 16:56 i checked the code already 16:56 k 16:57 also we tested that already 16:57 ok so the only way for that message to appear 16:57 is if something frightened the priest 16:58 <{Demo}2> can u scare him with a horn? 16:58 yes, the priest was scared 16:58 but there's something else weird going on here 16:59 scared from the zombies? :D 16:59 allways 16:59 frame 8853 16:59 what happened to sanctuary? 17:00 there is no sense of peace 17:00 why? 17:00 I entered through the side hole 17:00 not the door 17:00 she is already scared here? 17:00 wait wait 17:00 remember that thing in either spork or grunt that sometimes happens 17:01 in my test i entered from the hole to the shop a few times, no effect 17:01 that the shops are suddenly all deserted? 17:01 <@magicbymcluxey> but that happens in shops 17:01 well the shop was exactly adjacent 17:01 somehow the information on which room is what must have been lost 17:01 with all the digging 17:01 but again i don't know how to read the room-related code lol 17:02 so no sense of peace, the area is no longer defined as temple 17:02 priest is out side temple 17:02 and hostile when chatted 17:02 *outside 17:02 oh nvm I see why the message disappeared 17:02 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03 frame 8853 "Pilgrim, you enter a sacred place!" 17:03 if you recently experienced a sense of peace, it takes 10d20 turns (which, according to NetHack comments, average to 55, which is false) 17:03 for the message to be allowed to reappear 17:03 ah 17:03 110, not 55 17:03 <@Tone> hothraxxa: I said it should be easy to recreate because I would have dug the holes myself :) 17:03 right because the sense of peace scares away hostiles, it's not just a message 17:03 yeah I know 17:03 tone: in evilhack, at least, those walls are undiggable 17:04 well based on the message on 8853 it is still a temple 17:04 AntiVirus97: anyway so the issue I brought up isn't relevant 17:04 ok 17:04 since clearly, sanctuary is still in effect 17:04 just new 3.6.x behaviour 17:04 but no longer co-aligned 17:04 FIQ: whats that code? 17:04 <@Tone> hothraxxa: Ah, well that certainly changes things. I was going to test in vanilla though since it was being assumed a vanilla bug for some reason 17:05 it could be. i have local evilhack 17:05 stenno: src/priest.c 17:05 derp right 17:05 anyway 17:05 something scared the priest 17:05 indeed 17:05 no idea what 17:06 the corpse was who, again? 17:06 I donno, she didn't want anything to do with me. No explaination 17:06 btw I was wondering 17:06 why is it called evilhack? 17:06 just like my neighbor after two perfect dates 17:06 does it have evil patch ideas? 17:06 ;) 17:06 doesn't sound like anything I'd want to play if so 17:06 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 17:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 17:07 FIQ: wait are you back after a long time of absence? 17:07 the corpse was a shopkeeper 17:07 I was never truly gone 17:07 just not doing nethack stuff 17:07 from the tool store 17:07 people could still highlight me, etc 17:07 and you killed it or your pet? 17:07 but I've been more active here the last few days, yes 17:07 pet killed them all 17:07 pet killed it 17:08 the psudodragon in this version is an anti shopkeeper weapon 17:08 I was fully exploiting 17:08 i know. you have to really careful 17:08 grabbing that cash and getting cheap protection 17:08 yeah with Itzchak 17:08 oddly though, won't attack priests or the watch 17:08 I'm careful with him, but the other shopkeeprs are dead meat 17:09 maybe the priest got attacked by a zombie? 17:09 i mean you hear some noises 17:09 hmm 17:09 i like to keep the general store shopkeeper alive 17:09 lets see 17:09 I do too until I realized how much of an exploit this could be 17:09 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) polymorphed her first object, on T:38814 17:09 provided I have ample identify scrolls and don't need price ID 17:09 then I'll take them out for money for protection 17:10 aaaaand I'll keep doing it until K2 nerfs psudodragons 17:10 stand by 17:11 who get pseudodragon pets? 17:11 hmm 17:11 apparently wizards do 17:11 Wizards 17:11 and praise Anhur we do, because the early game is ROUGH when you're so squishy 17:12 so I started hiding behind it, and when I realized how powerful it gets after a few kills, now I make a B-line for the mines and turn him loose on all the monsters there so he becomes ancient 17:13 is menu_objsyms menuglyph? 17:13 then roll up on minetown and murder shopkeepers for money for the protection racket. If successful its kinda broken 17:13 lol, bones orctown, and some of the named orcs are peaceful (to me, an orc) 17:13 lol 17:22 yeah IMHO the psudodragon isn't OP, it just grows up too fast 17:23 but what do I know 17:25 Miezekatze eats a chameleon corpse. Miezekatze turns into a green dragon! 17:25 okay... 17:28 AntiVirus97: It's pretty OP compared to other pets. 17:28 yeah I mean, speculating that K2 showed some love to wizards because of all the new early game challenges 17:28 I've tried abandoning it and playing just with spells and melee but its damned hard 17:29 at least that's what it seems like, a way to offset the squishyness 17:29 but its a beast for sure 17:30 aosdict: not OP compared to other pets in general 17:30 but OP compared to other starting pets 17:31 AntiVirus97: iirc in dnethack, where they come from originally, they're really slow 17:31 and die very easily in the younger forms 17:31 that could be an interesting risk/reward 17:31 having to protect it until it grows up 17:31 and then it becomes nasty 17:31 but yeah in EH it's hits like a truck from start to finish 17:32 @d?baby pseudodragon 17:32 baby pseudodragon ~3~ tiny pseudodragon (D) | Lvl: 2 | Diff: 4 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 6 | Attacks: 1d4 bite physical, 1d1 breath half-dragon | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, infravisible 17:32 I've only had it die a few times 17:32 @v?tiny pseudodragon 17:32 No such monster. 17:32 K2: how do I check evilhack monsters? 17:32 @v?psudodragon 17:32 No such monster. 17:33 lol 17:33 spelling 17:33 @v?pseudodragon 17:33 No such monster. 17:33 it does spell correction 17:33 <@ShivanHunter> "v" is vanilla, last I tried evilhavk didn't have a thing 17:33 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 17:33 ah 17:33 @ShivanHunter I see 17:33 well there are no babies at the start of the game 17:33 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:33 Status of the pseudodragon (neutral): Level 4 HP 25(25) AC 2, tame. 17:34 it starts as adult, then grows up to elder, then ancient 17:34 @d?pseudodragon 17:34 pseudodragon (D) | Lvl: 4 | Diff: 6 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 1 | Generates: special | AC: 4 | Attacks: 1d6 bite physical, 1d2 breath half-dragon | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, infravisible 17:34 maybe if it did start as a baby it would help offset it 17:34 <@ShivanHunter> ^ 17:34 @d?adult pseudodragon 17:34 No such monster. 17:35 @d?elder pseudodragon 17:35 No such monster. 17:35 Note that pseudodragons are a D&Dism, rather than a dNethackism. They are commonly wizard familiars in D&D, too. 17:35 @d?ancient pseudodragon 17:35 No such monster. 17:35 umm 17:35 ? 17:35 I am fairly sure those exist in dnh too 17:35 @d?colossal pseudodragon 17:35 No such monster. 17:35 @d?gigantic pseudodragon 17:35 gigantic pseudodragon (D) | Lvl: 30 | Diff: 34 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 32 | Generates: special | AC: -6 | Attacks: 3d6 bite physical, 3d4 claw physical, 3d4 claw physical, 4d8 breath half-dragon | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, flies, infravisible 17:35 oooh 17:35 @d?winged pseudodragon 17:35 winged pseudodragon (D) | Lvl: 14 | Diff: 18 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 8 | Generates: special | AC: -2 | Attacks: 2d6 bite physical, 1d4 claw physical, 1d4 claw physical, 1d6 breath half-dragon | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, flies, infravisible 17:35 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought 17:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v remirol] by ChanServ 17:35 @d?riding pseudodragon 17:35 riding pseudodragon (D) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 2 | Generates: special | AC: 2 | Attacks: 2d4 bite physical, 1d3 breath half-dragon | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, infravisible 17:36 @d?large pseudodragon 17:36 large pseudodragon (D) | Lvl: 10 | Diff: 12 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 4 | Generates: special | AC: 0 | Attacks: 2d4 bite physical, 1d4 breath half-dragon | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, infravisible 17:36 i am really disappointed that the mystery of the scared priest might never be solved 17:36 AntiVirus97: does evilhack have the breath too? 17:36 I never see it breath attack 17:36 it stings and bites 17:36 the stinger is poisonous and causes sleep 17:37 it has this awesome habit of putting shopkeepers to sleep then killing htem 17:37 *them' 17:37 it's better than Magicbane 17:37 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed Geryon, on T:50938 17:38 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:38 can I name objects by appearance in 3.6.x? 17:38 without having seen it? 17:39 for example, scrolls named YUM YUM 17:40 intersting to note, the mines is somewhat safer than the regular dungeon in EH 17:40 as there are fewer zombies lol 17:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:52485 17:43 does evilhack have grunthack wishing craziness? 17:43 and spike traps 17:43 no spikes in the mines 17:43 its a little different 17:43 dragonhide cloak of magic resistance and reflection 17:44 that kind of stuff 17:44 yeah it has that 17:44 a bit different how? 17:44 oh um different vs vanilla in the sense that wands of wishing are generated charged 17:45 but it has grunthack wishing mechanics? 17:45 and yeah you can wish for a material like dragonhide 17:45 it may, I don't know that variant enough to say 17:45 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) killed the invisible Ancient Brain, on T:34010 17:50 -!- remirol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54 fiq: it allows wishing for dragonhide but not object properties 17:54 I see 17:54 hothraxxa: does 3.6.x have monster colors? what about evilhack 17:54 yes it uses vanilla monster colours with a couple of exceptions 17:55 and vanilla has monster colors? 17:55 IIRC 3.6.0 didn't have it 17:55 yes 17:55 unsure if later versions of 3.6 does 17:55 wait whut? 17:55 I mean customizeable monster colors 17:55 in case it was unclear 17:55 ahhhh 17:55 no 17:55 the options are called monster colors :P 17:56 ok... so why do rabid dogs share their color with little dogs? 17:56 they don't 17:56 they're grey 17:56 like little dogs are 17:57 my little dogs are white 17:57 hmm 17:57 p sure vanilla little dogs are gray, but dogs and large dogs are white 17:57 maybe it's a NH4 thing? 17:57 (in NH4 large dogs are also underline, but I know NH3 doesn't do that) 17:57 unsure. i haven't played nh4 for a while 17:58 just checked 17:58 all dogs are white 17:58 in 3.6.x 17:58 in vanilla 17:58 and presumably evil too 17:58 yes, except rabid dogs 18:00 K2: sandestin is not a new monster 18:01 in fiqhack I actually wanted to make sandestin have polymorphitis + polymorph control 18:01 rather than being a regular shapeshifter 18:01 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought 18:01 and have them shapeshift intelligently 18:01 as they are shapeshifter and don't generate corpses, they are hard to encounter 18:02 stenno: right but it was listed among new monsters in evilhack @ nethackwiki 18:02 and.. it's not new :P 18:02 they are, however, more common in evilhack 18:03 in my experience 18:03 oof hehe 18:04 <@magicbymcluxey> is evilhack getting credit for vanilla features now? 18:04 -!- 17SAAGSR6 has quit [] 18:04 -!- 7JTAAMOY2 has quit [] 18:04 <@magicbymcluxey> lol 18:04 well. my feet are vibrating so i have to go back to my stash and get ready to see a man about a book 18:05 nowadays you can un-sequence-break because you can detect the VS 18:05 hothraxxa: you've gone far in evilhack 18:05 are there monsters that are ideally genocided ASAP in evil? 18:05 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:2374 18:05 nazgul 18:05 heh 18:05 I was thinking beholders 18:05 they're bastards. they stun with their screams 18:06 due to instapetrify 18:06 assuming they work like grunt ones 18:06 you can't geno beholders :( 18:06 rip 18:06 wait aren't nazgul nogeno in evil too 18:06 hmm 18:06 and stoning is one of their attacks 18:06 and since you can't wish for obj properties 18:06 and acid blast isn't a monster spell here 18:06 YDSM isn't mandatory anymore (which would confer stone res as side effect) 18:06 I can still use it, of course 18:06 acid blast is a player spell, i have it 18:07 I guess I could 18:07 no but ydsm is a good choice in evilhack, i've done it 18:07 reflection is less important if I can get the elemental intrinsics 18:07 hmm 18:07 dragonbane sounds like a nice wish in evil 18:07 dragonbane gives both acid resistance and reflection 18:07 yeah 18:07 instant petrification, that sounds like so much fun 18:07 and gloves 18:07 a bit redundant with YDSM though 18:07 lol 18:08 so you'd only bother with YDSM for stone res if you went that path then 18:08 i'm wearing gdsm, unusual for my wizards but i wanted not to wear the eye or rely on magicbane 18:09 on account of flying 18:09 oh shit I forgot that 3.6.x removed MR from eota simply by wearing 18:09 er 18:09 carrying 18:09 lol 18:09 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 18:09 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 18:09 I suppose there is PYEC if I really wanted to 18:10 anyway, genocide only takes out two random monsters from the class. they tend to be the most powerful but aren't often enough to make it a pain 18:10 so evil geno is less evil than un geno 18:10 so i don't use genocide as much, and when i do it tends to be unblessed 18:10 @sare you saying evil class geno is random? 18:11 to be fair, mandatory grunt genocides was mostly monster-based rather than class-based 18:11 yeah don't bother blessed genocide for h, as the best example 18:11 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:11 i've gotten dwarf lords and bugbears, for example 18:11 urgh 18:11 oh in that sense it's even worse than un's, fair 18:11 I completely forgot about mind flayers 18:11 it was too long ago I played this 18:11 lol 18:11 so dwarf lords, ladies, kings, queens are all separate 18:12 regular dwarves, bugbears, hobbits... 18:12 vampire mage is a good one to take out 18:12 err 18:13 if evilhack uses grunt-style racial monsters 18:13 how would you get dwarf lord as genocide target? 18:13 it'd be lord, which is @ 18:13 what is herecmd_menu? 18:19 a - g8I 18:19 this is a great menu option 18:21 apparently youtube doesn't like when you open a expand a comment with 498 replies 18:28 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1674 points, T:2870, caught himself in his own ball of cold 18:28 * not true. 18:28 gnomish wizard 18:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) genocided class L, on T:53263 18:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) genocided class R, on T:53264 18:40 <@Plisp> go! 18:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:53326 18:50 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 223 points, T:1111, killed by a gnome lady 18:56 stenno it must have been the zombies 18:56 I watched it again looking at them, and they must have fought with the priest and scared her 18:57 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:53485 18:57 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 65 points, T:224, killed by becoming a doner kebab 18:58 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 18:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 19:00 -!- AntiVirus97 has left #hardfought 19:01 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:53558 19:05 FIQ: [backscroll] EvilHack doesn't implement racial monsters as elegantly as Grunt did. 19:05 There are separate monsters for dwarf lord, human lord, ... 19:05 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:51528 19:06 <@riker> what exactly is allanb doing on astral? I'm confused, he's just kinda wandering around killing and sacrificing ants 19:06 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:51537 19:06 he really wants trollsbane 19:06 I’m of the opinion that the best way would be having some sort of valid races tag in the monst struct, and then making modifications from there. That’s how I’ve been considering implementing it at least. Grunt does something similar. 19:06 <@riker> ah I see 19:06 <@riker> makes sense aosdict 19:06 Trollsbane? Why? 19:07 <@riker> he's joking 19:07 lol makes sense. I was going to say that I don’t think I’ve ever heard a single person say “I want trollsbane." 19:07 <@riker> dnh trollsbane is hella good 19:07 <@riker> ironically trolls arent 19:07 <@riker> aren't the main usage 19:07 AntiGulp: I'm not convinced that adding racial monsters adds enough to the game to be worth doing. Not that it adds nothing to the game, just that it's not particularly interesting. 19:08 <@riker> it's silver now, and does 2d20 vs covetous lol 19:08 Are there any artifacts which dnh said "you know... we're not changing this. It's gonna stay crappy." 19:08 aosdict: I really like the idea of adding racial monsters, but in my opinion doing it efficiently is one of the best examples of a SMOP. 19:09 <@riker> aosdict: yeah werebane i think 19:09 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:51542 19:09 <@riker> does do warning vs werecreatures but that's a bane-wide thing 19:09 YASI: Trollsbane gives you intrinsic lifesaving. Know thy enemy. 19:09 <@riker> wait no that can be offhanded now 19:09 @riker it probably would have been silvered if it weren't already 19:09 <@riker> fair enough 19:09 Werebane applies its damage to anything with the demihuman tag, which is a bit more inclusive than it used to be. 19:09 <@riker> that's true 19:10 <@riker> mostly it's just centaurs, nagas (?), deep ones 19:10 <@riker> oh and flayers 19:10 YASI: half-elf, which turns into an elf on full moon, and a human on new moon. 19:11 YANI: During new moon, werecreatures (including you) never turn into their were form. They remain human. 19:11 <@riker> aosdict: the brands deal 1d10/d14 instead of d8/12 but they're still the same I guess 19:11 <@riker> but they're also far from crappy in vanilla lol 19:15 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:22 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:28 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed Death (5 times), on T:53948 19:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed figurine of a woodchuck", on T:53969 19:30 * AntiGulp excitedly notices a friendly priestess in a temple 19:31 * AntiGulp ’s pet troll murders it with a pickaxe 19:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) had Sunsword bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:12525 19:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 5651270 points, T:53991, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/a/allanb/nethack/dumplog/1570383807.nh.html 19:33 Congrats, allanb! 19:34 aosdict: there's nothing elegant about grunthack. rofl 19:34 <{Demo}2> grunthack has BOOM FLESH 19:35 FIQ: evilhack has some similarities from grunthack but a lot of things are modified 19:35 obj properties is included in 0.4 but its not the same as grunthack 19:35 no CoMR and reflection 19:35 Do monsters grunt in GruntHack? 19:35 yes 19:36 <{Demo}2> do monsters in grunthack exist in real life? 19:36 the way grunthack implented racial types for things like soldiers, etc is kind of a mess 19:36 {Demo}2 yes 19:36 <@riker> hey k2 do wep props grant the matching resistance? 19:37 there's a portal from grunthack to this world under your bed 19:37 <{Demo}2> does the monster of evilhack exist in real life 19:37 yes 19:37 <{Demo}2> (thats u btw) 19:37 @riker no 19:37 <{Demo}2> ur the monster of evilhack :P 19:37 :P 19:37 <@riker> cool just checking, reading through the commit history 19:38 ^ that 19:38 <@riker> ? 19:38 reading through the commit history 19:38 <@riker> that's me 19:38 * K2 approves 19:39 surprised FIQ didnt do the same 19:39 <@riker> ah acid damage stays for dirge only I see 19:39 <@riker> ;) 19:39 <{Demo}2> im stupidly confused 19:39 FIQ: acid blast is a monster spell in evilhack 19:40 so YDSM is a good thing 19:40 <{Demo}2> ass blast lol 19:40 thats in slex 19:40 <@riker> does evilhack add acid rez to crowning? 19:40 hmm no 19:40 <{Demo}2> does any variant? 19:40 i didnt touch crowning 19:40 <{Demo}2> why did i think dnh did? 19:40 <@riker> chris was talking about it 19:40 <@riker> that's why probably 19:40 <@riker> I think fiqhack did 19:41 Why is ascending this stupid game easier than getting my pet to wield an artifact weapon 19:41 <@riker> cuz pets are stupid 19:42 Also pets won't wield cross-aligned artifacts. 19:42 Andrio: That would explain it. 19:43 K2: I didn't find the repo at first 19:43 ah 19:44 FIQ I called it evilhack because of the difficulty 19:44 not because its the EPI variant 19:44 @riker yes, fiqhack gives acid res on crowning 19:44 i think i've only added one legit EPI 19:44 K2: that one being? 19:44 fwiw instapetrify is EPI-grade 19:44 wand of nothing is same price as wands of death/wishing 19:44 that's not an EPI 19:44 just a minor annoyance 19:44 sure it is 19:45 FYI: beholders stoning gaze in evilhack is not instant 19:45 <{Demo}2> same with dnh 19:46 <@riker> dnh beholders are hella rare in their defense 19:47 what kind of thing would be useful in extrawin aside from control help? 19:47 <{Demo}2> is extrawin curses or some dumb UI "enhancement"? 19:48 http://home.fiq.se/extrawin_is_below_statusbar.png 19:49 <{Demo}2> connection timed out 19:49 K2: But haven't there been reports of people stonelocked by a beholder, only able to stand there and repeatedly gnaw on a lizard corpse with their one turn to live while the beholder gazes at them again and again until they run out of lizard and die? 19:49 <{Demo}2> stone locked lol 19:50 <{Demo}2> like couchlocked but nethack 19:50 {Demo}2: was actually based off stunlocked 19:50 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 19:50 <{Demo}2> yeah but it had stone in it 19:50 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:51894 19:51 aosdict: in those cased they were also slowed or burdened or both 19:51 <{Demo}2> im mentally slowed 19:51 <{Demo}2> so how am i even supposed to play evil 19:51 <{Demo}2> and not die 19:51 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:51900 19:51 hahaa MY Precious 19:53 K2: so if you're burdened you may die at any point if a beholder pops out from behind a corner? 19:53 no 19:54 its nethack. you could die at any moment from 19:54 * Pinkbeast is still a bit salty about discovering, deep in Angband, a) that Stunned and Confused are the other way round in badness to NetHack and b) that you can be Confused-locked :-/ 19:54 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54 beholders slow stoning is the same as being stoned via footrice 19:54 5 turns 19:55 <@riker> aka 2 turns though :p 19:56 hah 19:58 -!- bartlem has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58 ok, fixed 19:58 http://home.fiq.se/extrawin_is_below_statusbar.png 19:58 {Demo}2: ^ 19:58 <{Demo}2> thanks 19:59 currently it's kinda useless 19:59 I was wondering if there's something useful I can put there 20:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 20:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 20:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Hlf Mal Law), 5543 points, T:3035, killed by a Mordor orc 20:07 hm 20:07 funny 20:07 apparently I already did an animation cycle test 20:07 <{Demo}2> wild 20:08 because I have it in one of my git stashes 20:08 that I've forgotten about 20:08 <@Plisp> well shit that's a bother 20:08 <@magicbymcluxey> you can decorate wiztower with Christmas lights 20:08 <@magicbymcluxey> seems useful 20:09 <{Demo}2> fleecy 20:12 @magicbymcluxey if I were to actually make use of tile animation 20:12 it'd be to increase information density 20:13 stuff like "this monster is sleeping" and such 20:13 <{Demo}2> zZzzZzZ 20:14 <@magicbymcluxey> What, you mean you wouldn’t make a disco floor with it? 20:14 <@magicbymcluxey> Pfft 20:14 or passive hallu monster refresh 20:14 <@magicbymcluxey> Even crawl has one 20:14 it has? 20:14 last time I checked it didn't 20:14 <@magicbymcluxey> There’s a disco vault in pandemonium 20:14 <@magicbymcluxey> holds the demonic rune 20:14 but dcss doesn't do passive tile animations, does it? 20:15 all it does is have some tiles that can display one of several colors at random 20:15 I know altars use this for example 20:15 * K2 wants a disco floor 20:15 now i have the Beegee's in my head 20:19 "Stayin' Alive" isn't bad theme music for nethack 20:20 <{Demo}2> haha 20:21 anyway the terminal game has no issue doing smooth screen refreshes every 1/20s, and I can't see myself needing more than that -- but this is local 20:21 need to test over ssh too 20:22 <{Demo}2> do it with ssh over a 100ms ping connection lol 20:23 “You hear some noises in the distance. "Burrrrp!" You have a sad feeling for a moment, then it passes.” 20:23 NO 20:24 <{Demo}2> :( same 20:24 <@riker> F 20:24 RIP “Clayface” the rock troll. 20:30 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 20:33 {Demo}2: just tried over ssh to VPS (166ms ping) 20:33 with 50ms tile refreshing 20:33 it's still mostly seamless 20:33 <{Demo}2> oh nice 20:34 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36 I also tried with mosh too for test 20:36 it is... not smooth 20:36 at all 20:37 it kinda looks like how VNC looks over a bad connection 20:37 major screen tearing 20:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:18483 20:38 fun fact: downvoting your own posts will greatly reduce vote fuzzing 20:44 on reddit 20:49 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought 20:51 hi ais523_, that nick will not help you much with getting !tells 20:51 3.6.1 has turned green dragons into the most chaotic pets ever. I’m surrounded by poison gas constantly. I love it 20:51 fuck me i'm stupid 20:51 AntiGulp: poison gas works like stinking clouds, right? 20:51 it's the low-security version of me 20:51 (see, it doesn't even have voice) 20:51 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 20:51 FIQ: Yeah 20:52 This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify . 20:52 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2019-10-08 12:44 EDT: how well would a ssh connection cope with terminal background animations? for example, one thing Caves of Qud does that I was considering stealing for Knight benefit was a brief "z" "blink" for sleeping monsters. Another example (that I am not considering porting, but I'd like to know how well it'd perform) is PMD border blink on low HP 20:52 -!- ais523 is now known as ais523_ 20:52 ^ I ended up just testing this 20:52 FIQ: on a good connection it copes well, on a bad connection they may have incorrect timing or skip around 20:52 ssh copes just fine with refreshing the mainframe color every 1/20th of a second without any noticeable lag/inconsistent refresh timing 20:53 over a 166ms ping connection 20:53 I am not going to actually do this in particular 20:53 but it works fine as a test 20:54 I was going to use it to increase information density 20:54 for example, flash a z momentarily every other second or similar for monsters who are asleep 20:57 or passively refresh monsters/items if hallucinating 20:59 Ooh, titan in the castle. Never seen that one before. 21:01 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 21:01 ais523_: is there a way through the current NH4 theme engine to disable an applied attribute? 21:01 to clarify 21:01 <@Plisp> that was some big brain play I was getting screwed up by Vlad pretty hard so I let him escape downstairs so I could heal upstairs while he healed on the downstairs. Eventually the Tsurugi managed to bisect him 😄 21:01 fiqhack shows item piles with blue background 21:01 similar to 3.4.3 variants 21:01 but blue background is also used for pets 21:01 I don't want to show a blue background (item pile) for monsters that aren't pets 21:02 hmm nvm it appears that I have already fixed this with a hack 21:03 but can I avoid this hack? 21:03 K2, my psudodragon has once again become untame 21:03 FIQ: at the moment there are only two layers of tile ordering, I think a proper fix would require a third 21:04 any idea why this happens? It seems like randomly here and there he just goes nuts 21:04 so that you can have monsters display a black background over background colors of items 21:04 but only when those colors are unimportant/confusable 21:04 is it something that's supposed to happen 21:04 currently I use this 21:04 if (dbe->obj && (dbe->branding & NH_BRANDING_PILE) && settings.hilite_obj_piles && !dbe->mon && !dbe->trap && !strstr(default_drawing->bgelements[dbe->bg].symname, "stair") && !strstr(default_drawing->bgelements[dbe->bg].symname, "ladder")) 21:05 <{Demo}2> this is terrible 21:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed greased fixed scrolls of charging named Energizer Bunny", on T:20321 21:05 <@riker> that's horrifying 21:05 <@riker> not you antigulp you're okay 21:05 im a monster 21:06 fwiw, this isn't a problem I thought about much because NH4 doesn't have an item branding, and I'm somewhat philosophically opposed to item pile highlighting as it is 21:06 obv with newlines removed because of IRC 21:06 ais523_: ...why? 21:06 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed historic ring of free action named Stay Free Y'all", on T:20322 21:06 because I'm unclear on what problem it's trying to solve, and whatever it is it probably doesn't solve it correctly 21:06 huh, I threw him a food ration and he chilled out 21:07 in general you have to visit items anyway to learn information about them, so you discover it's a pile in the process 21:07 I guess that's what it does when it gets hungry....nasty 21:07 it's merely to show that there's more than 1 item on a tile 21:07 which is useful in case the topmost item isn't interesting to you 21:07 but items underneath may be 21:07 (less importantly, NetHack is strongly designed to only give information about the top item on a pile unless you're there, but that's more dispensible) 21:07 for example 21:07 if I am zapping statues 21:07 I don't care for the rocks 21:07 but I do care for the spellbooks beneath 21:07 or...OH! its a bones level 21:07 and my dragon got killed... 21:07 ais523_: that is something fiqhack already addresses 21:08 by another one...gross 21:08 ok, so I guess in that situation you know that the top item must be rocks because you just destroyed the statue 21:08 for the purposes of #find , the character can see all items right away 21:08 so the fact that the UI doesn't show it is merely a limitation 21:08 ah right, that's a major change from vanilla behaviour 21:08 like, in vanilla, this seems to be considered a balance property, not a UI limitation 21:09 ais523_: right but if the game shows object piles, I know that I don't need to bother visiting squares with just rocks 21:09 this "I know that I don't need to bother visiting" is, in vanilla, always wrong, for all you know there could be stairs there 21:09 this is the one place with 100% consistent gameplay where I consider lack of object piles an annoyance 21:09 but I find it annoying in general 21:09 err, vanilla 3.4.3 21:09 as well 21:10 but nowadays we have #terrain so perhaps it's more useful 21:10 (even so, you need to think of using it) 21:10 btw I was wondering 21:10 does the 3.6.x tile engine have a peaceful marker? 21:10 in terms of the statue-with-rocks thing, it'd make sense to just drop the spellbooks on top of the rocks 21:10 that'd be more useful than a tile highlight 21:10 there's no tile for peaceful in 3.4.3 and I don't think any new tile art has been added 21:10 or does it only know about pets 21:11 even the tile for tame is bizarre, it has a completely unrelated codepath to anything else (and on some windowports, even uses an entirely different image file format) 21:11 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 37322 points, T:18067, zombified by an orc zombie 21:11 was wondering because iirc I looked at a theme a while back with a peaceful marker 21:11 but it might have been residual NH4 stuff unused for NH3 21:11 or simply just unused alltogether 21:11 yes, "monster is peaceful" is one of the tiles NH4 requires 21:13 I wonder if I could get away with making an ascii tileset for 3.6.x curses 21:13 mostly as an excuse to get rid of annoying statues, but also for stuff like monster u nderline 21:13 *underline 21:14 (just make statues darkgray+underline or something, I think only black nagas would end up reusing it) 21:14 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: ZZAZZ] 21:15 adult black dragons 21:15 hmm yeah that too 21:15 FIQ: then statues end up blue if use_darkgray is off 21:15 maybe gray+underline, adult gray dragons use it 21:15 but I don't think much else does 21:15 one of the obvious thing to do with statues is to move all the monsters off the statue color (which should probably be light grey or brown) 21:16 underlining seems a bit out of place because in NH4 it's normally used for dangerous things, not (generally) harmless things 21:16 that is fair 21:16 the problem with using brown is that there is a very big list of monsters that use it 21:16 so you'd have to do a lot of shuffling if you want to use that 21:16 and all 3 3.6.x variants underline peacefuls, which is a better use of the underline than statues IMO 21:16 that's why I wanted to underline 21:17 yes, you'd have to move a lot of monsters, but OTOH it might help make those monsters more different from each other 21:17 restrict it to something unused, or nearly unused 21:17 aosdict: my one problem with that is that I prefer underline to double the amount of monster colors available 21:17 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:53891 21:17 aosdict: NH4 uses brown background for peaceful; a background color works better than a foreground color because background is also used for tame, and tame+peaceful can't happen thus it reduces one possible information clash 21:18 Monster color conflicts are already hard enough without reserving one of the available colors for statues only. 21:18 I guess removing some monsters might be a good idea as it is 21:18 aosdict: exactly 21:18 so making underline a monster color attribute means you have twice the colors 21:18 effectively 21:18 ais523_: remove zruties from vanilla. validate my unpopular decision for all time :P 21:18 although, part of the reason why monsters seem so sameish is likely because the combat formula is broken, and fixing it might make the existing differences between monsters more apparent 21:19 how many other monsters are on lowercase z? 21:19 none 21:19 zruty was probably added specifically to make use of all letters 21:19 or it carried over from rogue or hack or something 21:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1774 21:19 I wanted sea monsters off punctuation, and z was a good candidate 21:20 "zombie" is the more obvious use of z, but NetHack uses capital Z for that 21:20 IIRC Slash'EM screws around with the Zs in a really dubious way 21:20 ais523_: If you hilight peacefuls as brown, doesn't that make it impossible to tell whether a brown monster is peaceful or tame? 21:20 iirc slash'em makes z "zoo animals"? 21:21 <{Demo}2> slashed doesn't screw with Zs 21:21 aosdict: if a monster is the same color as the background color, the foreground color is changed to black; peaceful background is always blue 21:21 aosdict: no 21:21 FIQ: zouthern, aka australian/new zealand ish 21:21 <{Demo}2> t screws with zs 21:21 so a brown monster would be brown-on-blue if tame, black-on-brown if peaceful 21:21 (*tame background is always blue) 21:21 ais523_: peaceful background is always brown 21:21 not blue 21:21 yes, typo 21:21 peaceful is brown, tame is blue 21:21 aosdict: ^ what ais523 mentions is actually a general theme with background colors in NH4 21:22 stairs are red, detected monsters can be configured to magenta but most people turn that off because it looks terrible 21:22 I ported this to NH3curses too I think, but I don't think it can come up in 3.6.x 21:22 is green used for anything? 21:22 it can come up in 3.4.3 with hilite 21:22 IIRC it's intentional that white is unused, but I forget why 21:22 the blue-on-blue silliness doesn't happen anymore in 3.4.3 variants curses 21:22 how do you differentiate a magenta pet from a magenta hostile 21:23 ais523_: gray being unused is intentional 21:23 you didn't like green bg for some reason, hence it went unused 21:23 aosdict: magenta on blue versus magenta on black? I don't understand 21:23 I personally have no qualms about it 21:23 FIQ: oh, it's probably because some monsters were unreadable on it 21:23 like, cyan on green is very hard to read 21:23 I might have made poisonous gas use green bg in fiqhack 21:23 actually, thinking about it, I think grey background has compatibility issues with some terminals 21:23 ais523_: right, so it being unused is intended 21:24 ais523_: no, if a monster is seen only with detection and therefore its BG color is magenta, how do you know what team it's on 21:24 cyan on bg being unreadable sounds like a palette problem 21:24 aosdict: you don't 21:24 *cyan on green bg 21:24 FIQ: I know, thus the push towards enforced palettes in NH4, but that was very unpopular 21:24 aosdict: I disable this option per default 21:24 I find it actively harmful, for this reason 21:25 and consider it ugly 21:25 as well 21:25 it's basically only in NH4 because it's in vanilla 21:25 It's not like whether a monster is seen directly or detected has a huge impact. 21:25 vanilla uses inverse, which has similar problems (pets) 21:25 I don't think it has a good reason for existence apart from that 21:25 no idea why it's even there 21:25 but removing vanilla features is really controversial 21:25 I don't want it 21:25 but use_inverse also controls hitpointbar 21:25 does use_inverse correlate with hilite_pet? 21:25 so I can choose to either have inverse hitpointbar (makes it actually useful) and ambiguous detection vs tame 21:26 if not, it seems like there's some option correlation there shouldn't be 21:26 or a purely color-based hitpoint "bar" but not have ambiguity in pet vs detection 21:26 thankfully 3.6.x doesn't have this "feature" 21:27 oh good, that means I don't have to fix it 21:27 hitpointbar is always inverse there 21:27 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) genocided electric eel, on T:53992 21:27 Wait, you can make detected monsters not be inverse? 21:27 Andrio: turn off `use_inverse` 21:27 oh. 21:28 I think in vanilla, detected monsters are the only thing it controls 21:29 something with lava too 21:29 ah yeah 21:30 if color is disabled, lava uses inverse 21:30 to highlight it from water 21:30 <{Demo}2> oh that's neat 21:30 <{Demo}2> didn't know that 21:30 ooh K2 21:30 since 3.6.x hitpointbar doesn't rely on this option to invert it 21:30 can we remove this reliance on 3.4.3 variants too? 21:30 3.6.2 doesn't use inverse for detected monsters? 21:30 please 21:31 curses probably already ignores it after I rewrote status bar code for it in 3.4.3 21:31 but tty doesn't 21:34 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) killed Croesus, on T:38472 21:34 hmm 21:34 I should investigate how NH3 tileset data is represented 21:34 to figure out how I'd go ahead and store ascii tileset data if I were to make one 21:34 read NH4's tileset docs 21:34 it's explained there 21:35 but.. it's NH4 21:35 didn't NH4 rewrite it 21:35 yes, it explains the NH3 system in its docs though 21:35 the tile rendering is rewritten, and the tile format is new but backwards compatible 21:35 so I explain how the original format worked in the docs for the new one 21:37 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) wished for "blessed historic fixed partially eaten very diluted magic harp named prop. of turlough o'carolan", on T:54127 21:37 lol 21:39 FIQ: sure 21:40 YANI: if you pile adjectives onto a wish, they should all do something 21:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law), 2666 points, T:3875, killed by a long worm 21:43 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 493 points, T:1725, killed by a giant bat 21:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 391 points, T:1229, killed by a giant bat 21:47 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed the saddled Red Horse, on T:54164 21:48 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:54174 21:51 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed the Black Horse, on T:54196 21:52 i'm fucked 21:52 <@riker> RIP 21:52 i am sooo dumb, i was careless 21:52 again 21:52 Are you Death'd? 21:53 aren't you wearing lifesaving? 21:53 Don't forget you can pray on the Astral Plane (in vanilla at least) 21:53 can't pray god is mad but yes, i forgot i'm wearing lifesaving 21:53 :) 21:53 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) averted death, on T:54197 21:54 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:39167 21:59 you're weilding that lifesaving amulet 22:00 that sentence sounds like an entry from Lessons Learned The Hard Way 22:00 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:54229 22:01 K2: you know what would be cool? 22:01 cross-server watching 22:01 fuck me i'm dumb 22:01 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 22:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 22:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor5 (Kni Clk Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3555 22:01 well, you can just log in on any server. 22:01 better. ^^ 22:01 ^ that 22:02 meh 22:02 not as fun 22:02 juice prob isnt worth the squeeze 22:02 unless setting up something like that is simple for you 22:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed historic ring of conflict called conflict named Opinions", on T:20322 22:03 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) wished for "blessed thoroughly historic unlabeled unlit fixed greased figurine of a woodchuck named sir carl", on T:54244 22:03 hothraxxa i love you 22:03 in a platonic bro sense 22:03 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 2871659 points, T:54246, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hothraxxa/evilhack/dumplog/1569875761.evil.html 22:04 congrats! 22:04 grats 22:04 Congratulations! 22:04 well i really messed up that one but i managed 22:04 wooo grats hothraxxa :) 22:04 i thought you knew you were wearing life saving and was trying to save FH potions or something 22:04 hi 22:04 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 22:05 I get pinged on FH 22:05 ty. my wife is getting mad because i've been summoned 22:05 see you 22:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed historic bag of holding called The Bag of Lag from Beyond the Crag", on T:20324 22:05 rebatela: no i was being stupid, i forgot to take out some potions AND that i was wearing lifesaving 22:05 well that must have been a relief then :) 22:05 That does sound pretty historic. 22:06 yeah i was prepared to splat 22:06 <{Demo}2> wow, grats 22:07 do "historic" wishes actually change any properties of the item outside wizmode? 22:07 <@riker> does it affect statues in normal mode? 22:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 T-Shirt", on T:20325 22:07 I find it funny how you could bypass wizmode-only trapped by wishing for poisoned instead 22:07 well, statues are the only thing that adjective is designed for 22:08 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 1515 points, T:2381, killed by a bolt of fire 22:08 You can too wish for a historic statue in a normal game. 22:08 FIQ: that's a container thing, right? 22:08 yes 22:08 it doesn't seem like a useful exploit 22:08 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "uncursed greased magic marker named Mightier than the sword", on T:20337 22:08 it is theoretically useful in grunt and fh 22:09 actually, the weird thing is why you can't wish for them trapped 22:09 because monsters can be affected by chest traps there 22:09 well, a trapped container is likely theoretically useful even in vanilla, as you could unpolymorph from it (or possibly use it to cure sliming, with a really bad success rate)? 22:10 I suppose 22:10 but if you're making wishes there are normally more direct and reliable ways to get what you want, so that'd only be worth trying if you had a natural trapped container 22:10 YANI: when Slimed, luck increases the chance of container traps being fire traps and hitting, rather than a random type of trap missing 22:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "+2 blessed greased fixed gauntlets of power named Come forth, thunderous hammer, and smite thy foe", on T:20340 22:13 hmm 22:13 RogueEpyx has colors 22:13 in the rogue level 22:13 that's some sorcery 22:13 I don't think it increases information density though 22:13 those archangels are no joke huh? (watched hothraxxa's astral game) 22:14 FIQ: IIRC the DOS ports have colored Rogue levels because the DOS version of Rogue was colored 22:15 and the UNIX version is black and white because the UNIX version of Rogue was 22:15 I don't understand where it finds the colors though 22:15 clearly not in the symset file 22:15 hardcoded, perhaps? 22:16 i played rogue on dos when i was like 7. color indeed 22:17 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 22:17 oh, found it 22:17 overlooked it at first 22:18 "Color: Yes" 22:18 only enabled for epyx 22:18 so I guess the colors apply for the rogue level in general, just that they're generally disabled 22:19 RogueEpyx is all screwy in curses mode 22:19 great in tty 22:23 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a legendary lichen, on T:40133 22:25 -!- tonehack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:29 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:38 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) had Dragonbane bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:22386 22:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:22479 22:40 Nice 22:41 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:42 -!- phinxy has joined #hardfought 22:42 <{Demo}2> weapon balance is hard 22:44 <{Demo}2> a flat +10 wep dmg (after 2x applied for artis) might be enough to water down grays 22:45 that's watering down... how? 22:45 <{Demo}2> for all weapons 22:45 presumably it's applied to absolutely everything, even daggers 22:45 <{Demo}2> yeah 22:45 and monsters are given more HP to compensate 22:45 <{Demo}2> no 22:45 <{Demo}2> this is part of something you get after the quest somehow 22:45 <{Demo}2> you can choose a cool bonus 22:45 oh; you'd need to make the lategame harder anyway, though 22:46 <{Demo}2> and one of the options is +10 flat dmg to all non projectile weps 22:46 <{Demo}2> yeah 22:46 as it's too easy as it is, making it even easier probably wouldn't be helpful 22:46 <{Demo}2> another is like, a free -10ac or something 22:46 <{Demo}2> and perhaps another is like +150 hp or something 22:47 <{Demo}2> and I guess a pw boost could be an option as well 22:47 <{Demo}2> I can't see offering tohit being appealing 22:48 <{Demo}2> maybe offering a permanent +4 speed per turn would be ok 22:48 the accuracy and damage formulas are broken enough as they are; I think you have to fix those first before looking at balance changes that interact with them 22:48 <{Demo}2> true 22:48 [hdf-us] [spl] Ardub (Dra Elf Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:40960 22:49 <{Demo}2> yeah idk it just seems like an idea to make grays less stupidly strong and still allow for we variety 22:49 <{Demo}2> another option would to just have a mega weapon that's slightly better than grays available only after a certain milestone 22:49 <{Demo}2> but then it would just be "ok now use this weapon" 22:50 <{Demo}2> so something that made grays only marginally better in proportion could work 22:50 <{Demo}2> just by shifting proportions 22:50 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 22:51 the thing is, grayswandir isn't that much better than other weapons that you need it 22:51 it's good, but even something like excal, or a non-artifact +7 katana, is quite good enough in practice in vanilla 22:52 actually, two-weaponing is probably the most broken thing weapon-wise, more so than grayswandir is (you can of course combine the two) 22:52 <{Demo}2> it's better enough to greatly overcome a lot of potential snags 22:54 <{Demo}2> an offhand katana is very significant, yeah 22:54 <{Demo}2> a lot bigger a deal than grays vs excal 22:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law), 994 points, T:2555, killed by a water moccasin 22:59 oh goodness. Just made a typo and jumped into lava. Barely survived. 23:02 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 23:02 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 23:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 23:02 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:23823 23:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:23824 23:07 Fun fact: Did you know there can be flame traps beneath the water in the valkyrie quest? 23:07 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 544 points, T:987, killed by a dwarf 23:11 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 23:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law), 677 points, T:1803, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted kitten 23:16 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16 [hdf-us] [evil] allanb (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 361 points, T:1556, zombified by a kobold zombie 23:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 927 points, T:1786, killed by a bolt of lightning 23:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) genocided class L, on T:24660 23:28 -!- rebatela has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:28 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 23:31 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 157502 points, T:22704, poisoned by a locust 23:31 didn't see message 23:31 oh well that game was sucking anyway 23:33 -!- aoei has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:25789 23:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) genocided disenchanter, on T:26779 23:52 [hdf-us] [evil] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 5759 points, T:3934, killed by a gnome lord 23:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law) bribed Asmodeus with 200 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:27881