00:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Bar Orc Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:40779 00:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:6311 00:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 00:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 00:02 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 705 points, T:1936, killed by a fox 00:03 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 00:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:13468 00:06 -!- inari_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 4477 points, T:7235, killed by a quasit, while dragging an iron ball 00:22 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 00:28 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Mal Law), 7159 points, T:5009, killed by a xorn 00:36 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law), 149 points, T:352, killed by a bear trap 00:37 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Hea Gno Fem Neu) killed Demogorgon, on T:37912 00:39 [hdf-us] [gh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) killed Croesus, on T:23940 00:40 -!- realinari is now known as inari 00:41 -!- inari has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42 -!- inari has joined #hardfought 00:45 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 00:47 -!- inari has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:02 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03 -!- inari_ has joined #hardfought 01:06 -!- realinari has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:26 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 85 points, T:255, killed by a fox 02:01 [hdf-us] [gh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) killed the Dark One, on T:26140 02:01 [hdf-us] [gh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) picked up the Bell of Opening, on T:26142 02:05 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 02:06 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 02:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 02:07 -!- inari_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:53 -!- realinari has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 03:05 -!- inari_ has joined #hardfought 03:05 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Sam Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:15180 03:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Sam Hum Fem Law) genocided class h, on T:15180 03:07 -!- realinari has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:17 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 03:31 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 03:34 -!- inari_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:17111 04:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 04:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 04:02 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 04:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 04:20 stenno: you should file a bug report on that stupid bug where you suddenly go down some dungeon levels upon trying to go up a staircase! surely it slipped past the devteam and they'll be forever grateful to finally get a chance to fix it :D 04:32 -!- inari_ has joined #hardfought 04:35 -!- realinari has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "3 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:18360 04:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "+3 blessed greased fixed gauntlets of power", on T:18380 04:49 -!- captain42 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:57 -!- captain42 has joined #hardfought 05:06 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 05:08 -!- inari_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:23 -!- inari_ has joined #hardfought 05:24 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26 -!- realinari has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:27 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:31 -!- inari_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:31 -!- inari_ has joined #hardfought 05:32 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:18474 05:40 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 05:43 -!- inari_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:00 -!- realinari has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:02 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 07:06 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder 07:06 -!- card.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ ¤ public irc logs available on website ¤ ssh nethack@hardfought.org, nethack@eu.hardfought.org or nethack@au.hardfought.org ¤ dNetHack 3.18.0 / SpliceHack 0.6.4 now available to play 07:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 07:07 -!- K2 has joined #hardfought 07:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o K2] by ChanServ 07:11 NetHack 363-hdf updated (all servers) 07:11 ^ latest devteam updates 07:26 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:30 argh had to leave my Olog-hai on Earth because he was still eating 07:34 and forgot to take the earmarked scroll of genocide in my stash box (also forgot how to write it by being mindflayed) 07:34 I have a bad feeling about this 07:34 *saves* 07:35 when I'm all worked up like this it can only go badly, and I don't want any accidents on the plane of water 07:35 astral will be bad enough 07:37 I'll indulge in a spot of 3.4.3 instead 07:53 * raisse foolishly flails around on the plane of water a bit after all 07:54 "I chortle at thee, thou pathetic miscreant!" 07:55 my wands of death miss him all the time but then I kill him with my +7 Grayswandir and +7 silver saber 07:55 ooh the portal 07:55 it will probably be gone when I reach it 07:55 no it isn't! 07:56 There is a high altar to Quetzalcoatl (lawful) here. 07:56 I can't believe my luck 07:56 \o/ 07:57 argh, brought only 8 nazgul rings (though I did kill all 9) 07:58 I only chose that altar because I was avoiding a MMF 07:58 congrats raisse!! 07:58 thanks! 07:59 mmm MMM look at that html dumplog 07:59 ^ never gets old 07:59 yes, I'm looking at it now, splendid! 07:59 with my own menucolors and all! 08:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 08:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 08:01 the dungeon overview lists every level? even if there is nothing interesting on it? is that intentional? 08:02 it also doesn't list some level annotations when I was mindflayed into forgetting the level 08:02 I absolutely named baalz and juiblex as well as asmo and orcus 08:02 look at the quest, I converted ALL THE TEMPLES 08:03 okay, grocery shopping, and I deserve a treat so I'll buy myself one 08:03 woooot 08:03 bhaak: probably 08:06 that's something I expect vanilla to do, losing level annotations when being mindflayed. 08:08 <{Demo}> remove amnesia, scroll of amnesia drains xp lvl, mind flayer suck drains int 08:10 Congrats, raisse 08:11 I kinda wonder what you did on the quest. 08:11 To avoid being cursed too much by any priests. 08:13 oh, unnethack does, too. but of course only with Cthulhu 08:32 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 08:32 just booked my next vienna trip aw yiss 08:46 [hdf-us] [nh363] moulin (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Croesus, on T:33247 08:54 Andrio: the arc quest has unattended temples 08:54 they're still called temples though 08:54 there's one to each god so I converted the crossaligned ones 08:55 (enough snakes slithering around to do that with) 08:55 Ah 08:56 !rng tou wiz cav 08:56 raisse: tou 08:56 as hard to get started as arc, and also predisposed to silver sabers, but still fun 08:57 !rng wiz cav pri 08:57 raisse: cav 08:58 cavegnome time? 08:58 argh now I edited the rc to start a tourist anyway 08:58 well she'll die soon enough 08:58 I prefer dwarves for cav 08:59 I like gnome healers and wizards (though I think I like orc wiz even better) 09:01 but yes, I think I'll emulate elenmirie and try a cavegnome 09:03 just ascended a dwarf after all 09:03 [hdf-us] [gh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:27470 09:05 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 09:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 09:14 Yay! Congrats raisse! 09:14 Tangles: Message from rebatela at 2019-09-30 07:07 EDT: same thing happened. I should have just eye'd out of there. it is something with this elvenking. I tried magic missiling him and hit and then it did the 'oops' thing ! wtf ! i hate bothering you. but if you can fix again, i will just teleport out of there and bother k2 when he is back thank you 09:14 Tangles: Message from rebatela at 2019-09-30 12:23 EDT: Thanks for your all your help!! Sorry i kept bugging ya 09:16 thanks Tangles! 09:16 I spent a whole day waffling because I didn't want to do the planes 09:16 my cavegnome just died in orctown, samurai bones 09:17 forgot I wasn't lawful and got a big hit from picking up snickersnee, then an orc finished me off 09:21 heh. Oh well :/ 09:21 decided to play a random character and got an orc wiz :-) 09:22 its like it knows 09:24 raisse: congratulations. also holy hell how did you go from "flailing around on the plane of water" to "ascended" in only 2 minutes while still chatting??? you must be playing ultra fast! 09:25 once I was on astral I sort of went around everything (except for trampling insects and WoD-ing Pesty) and the first altar was the right one 09:26 ah, so the RNG was on your side :) 09:26 nice! 09:26 yes, for once 09:27 lol, a stethoscope and a potion of healing in the same room, it's like the RNG is now telling me I should have been a healer 09:27 oh, and also found a spellbook of healing a while back 09:27 https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2140 09:28 lol yes 09:29 "Orcs Can Be Healers! Apply Now!" 09:29 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:31 -!- j has joined #hardfought 09:32 -!- j is now known as rebatela 09:35 hmm, odd. Looks like the ring that the orc-captain from orctown can get sometimes is not init'ed, meaning it'll always be +0 if chargeable and teleport/polymorph/hunger/aggravate rings won't be cursed. 09:35 Sound like a bug to you? 09:35 yes, or a very obscure feature 09:36 but that explains how my priestess got a +0 ring of adornment 09:36 she did kill all the orcs in orctown 09:36 <{Demo}> sounds like a bug 09:40 will ask nhmall (not in here but in #nethack-dev) 09:43 -!- joes has joined #hardfought 09:46 fuck.. I should've named that first. 09:46 rookie mistake. 09:46 smh my head 09:48 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed greased +3 grey dragon scale mail", on T:9747 09:48 [hdf-us] [gh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased rustproof +2 helm of brilliance", on T:28224 09:48 but Sting is the best artifact weapon *ever* 09:48 :P 09:48 better than dirge 09:49 bite your tounge! 09:49 BLASPHEME! 09:49 ... DIRGE \o/ 09:49 lol 09:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu) made her first artifact wish - "blessed orb of fate", on T:9769 09:51 [hdf-us] [gh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed eyes of the overworld", on T:28231 09:51 * stennowork wished for blessed Sting named not Dirge 09:51 wonder if htat'd work 09:52 given that artifacts are already named something 09:52 nop 09:52 nope* 09:56 no as in you wouldn't get the item? or no as in it wouldn't be named anything because its already named sting 09:56 well clearly sacrificing for a gift isn't going to be a viable strategy this game. 09:56 or most funnily, would you get a normal elven dagger named Dirge 09:57 stennowork: it comes out as just sting 09:57 meh thought os 09:58 kind of ironic considering all the ogres I've encountered have been peaceful. 10:00 YASI: if you're on a high altar with the amulet, you can press < to ascend. 10:00 <{Demo}> lol 10:01 team limits eyyy 10:02 https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/dbtsy4/the_november_nethack_tournament_2019/ 10:02 [hdf-us] [nh363] metanite64 (Val Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:306 10:02 i vaguely remember this from last year 10:03 you've had a lot of drinks since then 10:03 i have chronic depression, i don't have to remember all the things 10:03 (seriously though i am not really depressed anymore) 10:04 just frustrated sometimes but thats fine 10:04 no trophy named after me, smh my head 10:05 Anyone remember if there's a NetHack Brass repo out there somewhere? 10:05 even though i famously made rank #37 last year 10:05 * aosdict checks jonadab's repositories 10:06 <{Demo}> jonadab has one? 10:06 <{Demo}> I think? 10:06 yes he does, just found it 10:09 -!- K2 changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ ¤ public irc logs available on website ¤ ssh nethack@hardfought.org, nethack@eu.hardfought.org or nethack@au.hardfought.org ¤ TNNT 2019! https://redd.it/dbtsy4 10:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] moulin (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the Master Assassin, on T:35089 10:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] moulin (Rog Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:35090 10:11 [hdf-us] [un] richards (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 2222 points, T:3383, killed by an orcish arrow 10:14 Ugh sirius the gray dragon ate a chameleon. Now he's a giant eel. 10:14 <{Demo}> and a giant pain in the ass I'm sure 10:15 petting a giant eel probably feels weird 10:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] allanb (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 408 points, T:1539, killed by a homunculus, while frozen by a potion 10:15 at least I assume that's what happened. there was a suspicious looking balrog on the level somewhere. 10:22 i petted a stingray in barcelona aquarium 10:22 was nice 10:22 :) 10:23 the bolt of lightning hits you! 7/10 wands are destroyed! Surely those aren't the real odds. 10:35 K2: is there an announcement tweet? 10:35 ah no not yet 10:35 Tangles usually handles the twitter feed 10:36 Tangles, i like to think that there is some sort of chain reaction regarding destroying want 10:36 wands* 10:36 K2: and how did you do the /r/roguelikes post? using "crosspost"? 10:36 yes 10:37 <@luxidream> so I see foodless is still worth twice as much as a regular ascension 10:37 <@luxidream> how many wizards do I need to scum to prove this is a bad idea 😛 10:39 K2: hmm, seems that reddit shows crosspost a little bit different if you crosspost a link or a text posting. I recently crossposted a link in another subreddit and you didn't see on first glance that it was a crosspost. with a text, you see that immediately 10:39 hmm 10:41 @luxidream since we don't want to define conducts' value differently for different roles, it's a tough balancing act 10:42 foodless - 2x (if luxidream playing a wizard, 0.75x) 10:42 there's even a lot of difference between a non-scumming foodless wizard and a scumming one 10:43 Clearly, the proper solution is for the devteam to derandomize wizard starting inventory. 10:44 [hdf-us] [nh363] cadaver (Sam Hum Mal Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:3384 10:46 aosdict: is starting gear different in xnh? 10:46 (for wiz) 10:47 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47 yes, you don't get random loot, you get 4 spellbooks, 2 of which are guaranteed force bolt and magic missile 10:47 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 10:47 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 10:49 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 10:49 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 10:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor2 (And-Ana And Mal Neu) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:50551 10:50 YANI I never implemented: customizable starting gear 10:51 like acehack rerolling? 10:51 unnethack's dumplog marks starting gear that you kept until the game ended. 10:51 i liked that 10:51 YANI: via rc cfg, allow player to pre-assign certain inventory items to letters 10:51 K2, thats an old idea 10:51 well ist new now 10:51 stennowork: not even rerolling, but selecting it by hand or config. 10:51 *its 10:51 hm ok 10:52 no need to correct. "ist new now" works perfectly fine as Denglish for German speakers 10:53 s'ist neu 10:53 bhaak: It's been suggested, but no one has proposed an implementation that isn't incredibly fiddly unless you're interested in playing characters with the same configured starting equipment each game 10:54 <{Demo}> i think dnh wanted to do that at some point 10:55 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 300 points, T:1431, died of starvation 10:55 <{Demo}> my favorite thing is how slashem does the opposite 10:55 <{Demo}> and encourages start scumming even more 10:55 <@luxidream> the fact that it can be cheesed should be taken into account when determining its scoring value? 10:57 How would YOU properly reward players who played a legitimate hard conduct game and at the same time reduce the reward for players who start scummed until they got the gear they needed? 10:57 * K2 waits for @luxidream solution 10:58 <{Demo}> i dont know a good way cause i still got other tricks to startscum for slow digestion 10:59 <{Demo}> and its hard to ban all the tricks 10:59 i definitey need to play slashem 11:00 aosdict: in what way reward? if you make it transparent what gear the player had at the beginning, as in writing it out like starting gender and alignement is documented, everybody can assess if the player had an advantage or not. 11:00 <@luxidream> Remove slow digestion from the wizard starting inventory, ban it from the swap chest 11:00 <@luxidream> tnnt is already a variant so I see nothing wrong with this 11:00 <{Demo}> slashem definitely has a potentially annoying learning curve 11:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:12177 11:00 if i hurry, i might actually get to planes before 60k turns... But what is more likely is that it's going to kick in at the worst possible time 11:01 @luxidream but adjusting starting inventory changes vanilla game mechanics. we're trying to avoid that 11:01 <{Demo}> but slow digestion is part of my wizard strat sometimes 11:01 bhaak: The thing is regarding tournament scoring. 11:01 <{Demo}> like ill throw one on so i can altar scum better 11:01 -70AC no body armor w00t :: still dies to demogorgon :: 11:01 <{Demo}> while NOT trying to go for foodless 11:02 {Demo}: the problem with slashem's learning curve is that it is multidimensional and might even lead through your behind. 11:02 Yeah, some people scum for =oSD just because they don't like worrying about food too much. 11:02 <{Demo}> yeah thats the fun part with slashem 11:02 Removing it from starting gear is definitely not the solution. 11:02 that's also hard to communicate. 11:03 i polypile for =oSD 11:03 the absence of stuff doesn't register with players unless you tell it to their faces 11:03 hah no 11:03 some notice 11:03 trust me 11:03 <{Demo}> yeah k2 ur mean and u took away something fun, i know it :P 11:04 :P 11:04 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 513 points, T:1333, killed by a gnome 11:06 can't you just polyself into the same thing or something and it resets nutrition? I feel like there's some easy way to do foodless that makes it not all that impressive. (i'm probably way off though) 11:08 <@Tone> So is foodless worth x2.5 because of the stack? 11:08 polyself into a new [wo]man resets nutrition, and so does prayer, but that doesn't work outside Gehennom 11:09 @Tone no, they don't stack with conducts they necessarily imply 11:09 <@Tone> oh, okay 11:09 <@Tone> That's different from last year, I think? 11:10 <{Demo}> i might actually play this year? 11:11 Yeah, last year's system was rather confusing 11:11 Is it just me who's uneasy about the achievement for escaping in celestial disgrace? 11:11 <@Tone> oh is that still there? 11:11 Yes. 11:12 <{Demo}> no, pretty sure lux can do that in like an hour or something 11:12 <{Demo}> tnnt but the goal is to blow up the swap chest 11:13 Andrio: it's getting axed, we haven't refreshed that part of the page yet 11:14 <{Demo}> if the swap chest breaks, is there a way in place to reset it? 11:14 oh 11:16 <@Tone> I don't think it is destructible 11:16 <@Tone> Most of the methods were closed last year at least 11:17 <{Demo}> I don't mean breaking the ingame swap chest, i mean the community swap chest 11:17 <{Demo}> like whoops i put a badly corrupt "object" in and now anyone who touches opens the chest crashes 11:18 <@Tone> Ah 11:18 <@Tone> Can you fill it with enough items that anyone who opens it crashes? 11:18 <{Demo}> doubtful 11:19 <{Demo}> it would be more if you could somehow write bad data to it by finding some bug that corrupted an object and then putting that in there and having it not crash when putting it in 11:19 if you find such an exploit, we'd love to know in advance 11:20 <{Demo}> got nothing 11:21 <@Tone> ah the bug I was thinking of got fixed, and I don't know if it ever worked for items in containers 11:23 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 11:23 <{Demo}> if i feel like it i think i might play with dnh and valgrind a bit later today and try to get the surface level things fixed so i can fuzz it with valgrind running and then be really sad and then find a lot of dumb leaks but maybe some cool corruption 11:31 <@luxidream> Would it be easy to track if a player started with slow digestion 11:31 <@luxidream> and eliminate the conduct or reduced points if they did 11:31 <{Demo}> what do you mean by statr? 11:31 <{Demo}> like in starting invent? sure 11:31 Yes, it would be easy, but it's not conduct-nullifying. 11:31 <@luxidream> I think it should be banned from the swap chest regardless, possibly with a flavorful message about the chest attempting to eat it 11:32 <{Demo}> i still think swap chest terrorism could be a fun different competition 11:32 <@luxidream> It is conduct nullifying though 11:32 What about people making characters just to get the castle wand and leave it for themself (their real character) who is saved standing next to the swap chest? 11:33 valid point, but you think a WoW would last that long? 11:33 <{Demo}> what if i just wish for one from a dlvl 1 fountain? 11:33 wish granting items are also now being banned from the swap chest 11:33 ^ that 11:33 <{Demo}> good call 11:33 I didnt wanna spoil it but yay aosdict lol 11:33 <{Demo}> wouldnt want a stack of WoWs in there 11:33 ~~Smoky potions?~~ 11:34 <{Demo}> wouldnt be smoky 11:34 what was smoky for you may not be for the enxt player 11:34 *next 11:34 yeah 11:34 <{Demo}> can i put my dead cat in the chest or is that not cool 11:35 <{Demo}> pretty sure there are some weird reqs 11:35 <{Demo}> and it doesnt meet them unless i enchant it enough 11:35 <@luxidream> how long does it usually take to get a fountain wish 11:36 <{Demo}> idk 11:36 <@luxidream> it's not something I've tried in a while so I'm not sure 11:36 on the upper levels it doesn't take long 11:36 <@luxidream> but you can just run a startscumming script and get slow digestion in no time 11:37 <@luxidream> win the game with only minor difficulties 11:37 <@luxidream> and get credited with two ascensions 11:37 <{Demo}> what, who would do that :P 11:37 <{Demo}> i mean, isnt that 100% in the spirit of nethack though? 11:38 @luxidream sure go ahead 11:38 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rebatela/nethack/dumplog/1566298122.nh.txt # there's a story here 11:38 and if i notice something eating up substantial amounts of cpu cycles on the server, i'll kill it 11:38 <{Demo}> yeah ive gotten good at figuring out how to not use cpu cycles 11:41 <@luxidream> startscumming is a lot more efficient than fountain quaffing in any case 11:42 see 'general rules' on the TNNT rules page 11:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 1413 points, T:2969, killed by a gnome zombie, while fainted from lack of food 11:43 [11:32] <{Demo}> i still think swap chest terrorism could be a fun different competition <---- that falls under 'Use your common sense: don't hack into the game servers, don't deliberately corrupt or leak memory or otherwise try to crash or hang up the game, don't abuse the RNG, and don't be a jerk.' 11:44 so feel free.. but also be prepared for the consequences of said actions 11:44 <{Demo}> not this competition 11:44 <{Demo}> but like a competition with known bugs that make it possible 11:44 <{Demo}> and you gotta find them and blow up the swap chest before anyone else 11:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu) polymorphed her first object, on T:13061 11:47 <@luxidream> We already have a tournament where scumming is the dominant strategy 11:47 <@luxidream> It’s allowed, but it shouldn’t be encouraged 11:47 <{Demo}> the idea of this is that its more exploit discovery and abuse 11:47 Pinkbeast: I think i at least dropped my gear on the ground so it wouldn't be cursed, no? (hence the cat named ENJOYBONES lol) 11:48 rebatela: Ahhh, I thought you had found someone else's bones with that cat name 11:48 hehe no. although I don't remember why i quit 11:48 {Demo}: junethack is already the bug finding tournament 11:49 <@luxidream> I was still talking about foodless 11:49 <{Demo}> nah i mean like this is specially dedicated to it and has behaviors that enhance the ability to abuse bugs or make them more meaningful to gameplay in some way 11:50 @luxidream The existence of multiple scumming strategies also illustrates why it's a fool's errand to try and find exceptions piecemeal. Do we block Healers scumming for smoky healing potions? Do we detect if the player finds a random =oSD in the first room? 11:50 <{Demo}> also jnh doesnt allow memory corruption or rng abuse 11:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] mosen (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2934 points, T:7647, killed by a giant mimic 11:50 Angband-style minimum item depths # joke 11:51 <@luxidream> Those strategies take far more time than scumming for a wizard’s starting inventory 11:51 yeah but they still trivialize foodless 11:51 so if they remained unblocked there's incentive for players to do it 11:53 <@luxidream> If it trivializes foodless but isn’t worth the player’s time to do it 11:53 <@luxidream> then it’s no longer an optimal strategy 11:53 you can healer scum for a wish and get one in a matter of minutes 11:55 <@luxidream> Without using a macro or script? 11:56 smoky healing potions ? 11:56 <@luxidream> that would be 1/23 of smoky potions to get the djinni, and another roll to get the wish 11:56 Macros probably OK, scripts probably not, though the rules don't say anything about them either way. 11:57 hey i don't do it... i think that's how it's done though 11:57 And this doesn't apply only to foodless; other conducts become much easier or trivial if you get really lucky really early. 11:58 <{Demo}> i did manual wishes 2018 jnh 11:58 <{Demo}> its quick as hell 11:58 <{Demo}> wayyyyyy faster than when i do scritped wishes 11:58 <{Demo}> but that is cause my script runs super slow 11:58 if you start scum locally you can get multiple wishes from a single fountain 11:58 <{Demo}> you get into the keyboard pattern pretty quick and just kinda hammer the shit out of it until you get a wish and its pretty quick 11:58 save scum* 11:59 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 147 points, T:565, killed by a fox 11:59 rebatela: that doesn't apply to a discussion about tournaments though 11:59 oh i know 12:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00 but fountain wishes aren't as rare as i think some people perceive.. just super dangerous at the beginning of game 12:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 12:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 12:01 The reason why fountain wishes are disdained by advanced players is because most advanced players don't like scumming. 12:01 <@luxidream> more when combined with other trivial conducts 12:01 @luxidream rld just bounced so if you said something we didn't hear it 12:02 a fountain wish isn't necessarily scumming, I get most of my fountain wishes when trying to uncurse/blank/dilute stuff 12:02 <@luxidream> Foodless is the most important because it’s worth an extra ascension 12:02 <@luxidream> more when combined with other trivial conducts 12:02 I dip in all the early fountains once I'm able to. It's not scumming 12:02 we could just lower how much foodless conduct is worth and be done with it 12:03 it's a great way to get an early wish 12:03 What this discussion hasn't addressed so far is the other challenges of foodless conduct: namely resistances become a lot harder to get 12:03 <{Demo}> true 12:03 <@luxidream> crown 12:04 <@luxidream> very easy 12:05 it's not trivial to play foodless until you're crowned, even if you do have slow digestion 12:05 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:05 if it were trivial, more players would have foodless conduct 12:06 @luxidream what you might find fairly easy to do isn't at all for many other players 12:06 you're kinda up there in ability 12:06 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 12:06 the cynical view: we know luxidream will win the tournament anyway, so let him spam all the foodless wizards he wants 12:08 <{Demo}> :P 12:09 <{Demo}> im actually bringing tariru back online for tnnt 12:09 https://scoreboard.xd.cm/conduct.nh.html <--- top 100 'best conduct' games (vanilla only) 12:09 42 have foodless 12:10 and out of those top 100, vast majority are 3.4.3 12:10 <{Demo}> can someone summon him though for real i wanna see him kill evil this month then tnnt next month 12:10 Tariru prob had to go into rehab after streaking slex 12:10 is tariru's slex streak still continuable? 12:11 <{Demo}> i dont think he has a body 12:11 aosdict yes 12:11 <{Demo}> i think hes a sentient being that lives in a machine 12:11 he's data from star trek TNG 12:12 ascends nethack 1.346556 trillion times a second in his positronic brain 12:12 <{Demo}> one day i will watch some of his ttyrecs 12:12 <{Demo}> and gain the unknowable knowledge 12:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3412 12:12 he's fairly cautious 12:12 likes to use E word 12:12 <{Demo}> just a few hours of watching him play isnt enough 12:13 <{Demo}> you must consume days of it 12:14 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 2799 points, T:3546, killed by an elven dagger 12:14 <@luxidream> it doesn't have anything to do with my personal skill, foodless with slow digestion is far easier than zen or nudist with a single wish 12:14 says you 12:14 <@luxidream> you can make the argument that zen is also easy, but it makes up for that by being extremely tedious and a huge time waster 12:14 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Ashikaga Takauji, on T:20559 12:14 <@luxidream> so not an optimal strategy by any means 12:14 Do you feel that foodless is appropriately scaled assuming the user doesn't start with slow digestion? 12:14 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:20561 12:16 <{Demo}> i just want to ride a wumpus over medusas and get credit for it 12:19 <{Demo}> what if rangers got a 2x multishot bonus while riding a wumpus as well as being able to ride one without saddling 12:21 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24 aosdict: Note that my NetHack Brass repository never reached a point of being stable enough to recommend public-server hosting. 12:24 <@luxidream> I'd say in the 1.6 to 1.8 range is more reasonable. It should be worth more than most "normal" conducts but I don't think the time investment or difficulty is worth another full ascension 12:24 I think there's a TODO list there somewhere. 12:24 <@luxidream> there's a lot I don't agree with on this conducts multiplier chart, though 12:24 Which should list known issues. 12:24 <@luxidream> and I'd like a second opinion from someone like @Tone who is more experienced with conducts than I am 12:26 jonadab: That's fine, I was just mining it for code. 12:27 <@Tone> I need to catch up on the new scoring and this discussion when I get off work later 12:27 <@Tone> I do think if you reward a lot of points for anything, that people will find ways to exploit it 12:27 aosdict: Ah, it's not useful for that. 12:27 Well, except the initial commit. 12:28 Which is just a NetHack Brass last-released-unstable-dev-version tarball. 12:28 <@Tone> I'm already considering a few ways to take advantage of the scoring 12:28 All the other commits are bug fixes, and community patches ported over from 343-and-friends. 12:28 And the bug fixes are for Brass-specific bugs. 12:29 jonadab: Well, I can still look at the code. 12:29 Sure. 12:29 I mean, it's as good as a tarball for that. 12:29 In this case, just its object material list for statues. 12:32 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:44 Ah. 12:48 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 12:49 LarienTelrunya: ikr, i already told them, but so far that bug is only fixed in some variants 12:50 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 194 points, T:542, killed by a magic missile 12:50 [hdf-us] [gh] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) entered Gehennom for the first time, on T:29716 13:00 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02 stenno: almost all variants actually 13:04 "You can't see through yourself anymore" 13:04 ahh so those traps toggle invisiblity ? 13:06 oh wow bones on DL 42 13:07 and they're not my own! lol 13:07 rebatela they can toggle invis and see invis on/off 13:09 that's pretty cool 13:09 i didn't even realize i was invisible i must have hit one earlier 13:10 this ghost is over lava though and i wonder if that's where the bones pile is? 13:10 who is the ghost 13:11 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Grouchy's ghost, the former Necromancer, on T:53372 13:12 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:12 nvm i got it it was on the drawbridge 13:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] cadaver (Sam Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a bugbear, on T:4872 13:16 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:19 Hmm, it just occurred to me to wonder what happens if you push a boulder onto a lowered drawbridge. Logically, if you push it on from the side/moat direction, it should go under the bridge and possibly change the what-is-under-bridge variable to floor. But if you push it on from the usual direction, ... should it destroy the bridge? Or what? 13:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] moulin (Rog Hum Mal Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 8 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:39428 13:20 jonadab: no idea, but drawbridges scare the crap out of me 13:21 i didn't even want to take off levitation to pick up those bones, uncancel the bag of holding etc. i'm always thinking i'm about to die 13:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 2538 points, T:3433, killed by a gnome king 13:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] cadaver (Sam Hum Mal Law), 8030 points, T:5708, killed by an ettin mummy 13:23 at least i have some gain level potions now though. best score from those bones. I was considering wishing 13:23 magic lamp too, which is nice because i haven't been wearing eyes of overworld.. bought a lot of clairvoyance too 13:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] prickles (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 219 points, T:1407, killed by a gas spore's explosion 13:29 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 13:38 YANI: hitting a statue with a wand of opening causes it to drop its contents without breaking 13:38 (or knock I suppose) 13:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 2539 points, T:2545, killed by a soldier ant 13:55 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 13:57 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 13:57 I was listening to a podcast lastnight and it got mentioned that there is no luck penalty for breaking boulders in Sokoban 13:57 did this get rolled into EvilHack? 13:57 and scroll of earth 13:58 if its in vanilla its in evilhack (the luck thing with sokoban) 13:59 in sporkhack and evilhack, sometimes only one scroll of eath spawns in soko first level instead of 2 13:59 *earth 13:59 yeah I saw that 13:59 and it's blue 13:59 ok I'll avoid busting boulders in that case 13:59 thanks 14:00 which podcast was that? 14:00 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) killed the invisible Juiblex, on T:44770 14:01 you can bust them AFTER you solve the level (like if you need rocks to toss at a mimic through a boulder) 14:01 teleporting boulders gives no penalty though 14:01 Roguelike Radio episode 84 14:01 gotcha 14:01 they have a nice extended discussion of nethack variants and some gripes about design 14:01 you might find it interesting 14:02 rebatela thanks for the info 14:02 meh, i already know everything about nethack 14:03 yeah it's just more like a panel discussion 14:03 lol. I was going to say, how does a podcast exist like that that y'all don't know about (or are the creators of) 14:03 some of the fork creators are on that episode 14:03 and the developer of Powder for gameboy 14:04 i don't like the 1 earth scroll thing (somtimes) change 14:04 I imagine the discussion is pretty similar to what you might here in here. Lots com complaining about Gehennom 14:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] moulin (Rog Hum Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:39974 14:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] moulin (Rog Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:39976 14:05 they should look to xnethack on how to properly design gehennom 14:05 at least regarding the level layouts 14:06 earth scrolls seem super rare, but they are the cheapest to write... i write them all the time, but obviously that's later in the game when you have markers 14:06 monster: I don't always hang out in the Sokoban, but when I do, I lean against a boulder. 14:06 so how was it done in xnethack? 14:07 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 14:07 a bit more open space, walls with holes 14:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] prickles (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 1444 points, T:2623, killed by a lizard 14:07