00:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 00:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 00:00 3) Gehennom doors using a different kind of skeleton key, and being more like xnethack's iron doors, which are harder to circumvent. 00:02 YANI for gehennom doors: opening them requires you do some blood-ritual-ish thing each time that either hurts you or costs resources 00:03 NeroOneTrueKing: And in none of those cases is there room for mundane locks just being opened with different keys. 00:04 Right. I don't think mundane locks are really worth the hassle of finding the right key for them. 00:04 There could also be a certain type of special room in the regular dungeon with undiggable walls and requiring a certain type of key 00:05 That would be a good use of requiring a special key 00:06 I'm thinking that it should be visual and obvious. An iron door needs an iron key, a silver door needs a silver key, an antique door needs an antique key, etc. 00:06 I think I almost said this earlier to luxidream and am realizing it now: the random iron doors aren't that big of an issue to players by the time they're relevant 00:07 not very formidable when surrounded with soft diggable phaseable material 00:07 (in places like the Castle, they're more formidable, so the overall idea isn't bad) 00:10 I prefer the idea of these special doors being specifically for special places. 00:10 As you said, random iron doors usually won't do much to the player. 00:11 well, I'm leaving them in the dungeons of doom anyway, for those situations where they do make a difference :) 00:12 Fair :) 00:13 iron doors are just another type of mundane ones. 00:13 there's almost a whole rainbow of colors to denote "special door" 00:14 though, it would be better if doors and books didn't share a glyph... 00:14 dnh's libraries have that problem. "Is that a door-coloured spellbook or a door? Better kick it to be sure." 00:15 <@riker> they also have white vs plain spellbooks - I really don't need this many plain ones but I'll kick all of them in case a snow white spbk is ID this game :p 00:16 also, I have no more room left in the door flags. hmm. 00:16 <@riker> so not every color problem is fixed by changing the glyphs up, and more colors might help maybe (but probably not) 00:16 @riker is there some reason you are kicking books to find out their descriptions rather than walking over them? 00:16 They're embedded into the walls 00:16 <@riker> yeah they're embedded in the walls 00:17 <@riker> you can't walk over them until you kick them sadly 00:17 and farlook doesn't reveal "red spellbook, embedded in a wall"? 00:17 <@riker> not that I've even seen 00:17 is this flavored as bookshelves? 00:17 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 7950 points, T:3112, killed by a soldier ant 00:18 + a spellbook or a closed door (spellbook embedded in a wall) 00:18 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Mal Neu) stole 562 zorkmids worth of merchandise from Kinojevis' general store, on T:12972 00:18 Sadly not :/ 00:18 <@riker> I believe so aosdict 00:18 It makes marginally more sense than the books being scattered on the floor like every other special room 00:18 <@riker> the floor also has pools and fountains though so it's not like you could put them all on the floor 00:18 that's hilarious then. the only way to retrieve the book from the shelf is to kick the shelf hard enough for it to come loose 00:18 <@riker> eh you could but I don't mind kicking it generally 00:18 But only marginally more, since you can see them from outside the room too :P 00:18 <@riker> the only time I had a serious issue was when the mines were glitchy lol 00:19 <@riker> (they would spawn embedded in the walls of like 1/3 of the cavern levels so you'd end up with literally 200+ spellbooks occasionally, I did count once) 00:19 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 00:19 Perhaps you can implement directional #loot that only works on objects embedded in a wall whose rtype == LIBRARY? <-- YANI? 00:20 <@riker> that's not a bad idea, pretty sure that works right now for Clarent (the sword in the stone) so it's a possibility that could be tweaked 00:20 <@riker> at least I think it was clarent 00:20 possibly orig_rtyp instead, but yeah 00:20 <@riker> I mean the #loot handling is there for sure 00:21 <@riker> ah i'ts #untrap for clarent 00:21 At some point, the "You don't find anything here to loot." will need to be moved until after asking for a direction 00:30 -!- kimeemaru has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] Chansu (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:6347 01:33 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3368 01:41 [hdf-us] [nh363] Chansu (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 11600 points, T:14841, killed by an invisible soldier ant 01:41 [hdf-us] [dnh] monstergrin (Ana Inc Fem Cha), 18930 points, T:3848, burned by molten lava 01:42 <@monstergrin> whoopsie 01:44 gnite all 01:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 644 points, T:971, killed by a rock piercer 01:47 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:49 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:4112 01:53 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) had athame named Magicbane bestowed upon him by Thoth, on T:4642 02:00 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 02:02 ah, i see, a new bitching thread on reddit how 3.6 sucks. i feel so valued. 03:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed +2 fireproof silver dragon scale mail", on T:6142 03:38 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 04:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 04:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 04:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) made his first artifact wish - "the master key of thievery", on T:6754 04:16 paxed: is that really a thing 04:19 sure 04:20 what do people like so much about 3.4.3 04:27 alex_, it's easier because it's before elbereth and plane of water strategies were nerfed 04:28 I guess some people like being able to use them more 04:36 oh gosh i hope elbereth nerfing is canceled in the future versions 04:37 NHrsa: why 04:37 -!- kimeemaru has joined #hardfought 04:37 -!- kimeemaru has quit [Changing host] 04:37 -!- kimeemaru has joined #hardfought 04:43 NetHack is too hard for me, I would like it to be easier 04:45 random wand in a chest 04:53 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:04 the RNG likes to set up arcs for a fall 05:06 -!- ahrkl has joined #hardfought 05:13 -!- ahrkl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16 -!- ahrkll has joined #hardfought 05:16 -!- ahrkll is now known as ahrkl 05:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:50931 05:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] Chansu (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 305 points, T:1051, killed by a small mimic 05:33 I'm tempted to call my pets Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt instead of Poes, Bessie and Sirius :-) 05:36 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 05:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 05:38 raisse: that's a nice theme 05:40 they were all around me spelling 'fud' 05:49 oooh 06:03 -!- kimeemaru has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:04 -!- kimeemaru has joined #hardfought 06:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Helm of telepathy", on T:54520 06:38 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 06:45 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 Aegis", on T:56230 07:45 does the announcer announce when the luckstone is identified or when it is picked up? 07:51 I think upon pickup 07:52 but you already knew it was one? 07:57 i dont play on that server i was just thinking you could use the announcer to ID it for you 07:59 <@Tone> You can 08:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 08:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 08:03 OMG morning 08:15 morning K2! 08:17 \o/ 08:20 hello raisse how are you 08:21 What's happening, K2? You seem excited to be awake! 08:21 the 5 hr energy drink kicked in hard this morning 08:22 plus our new bed came in 2 days ago and i'm sleeping much better now 08:22 not sore waking up for the first time in forever 08:23 ultra firm mattress for the win :) 08:23 awesome! 08:23 heh 08:23 how are you? glad to be back? 08:23 Yeah, kinda. 08:24 :/ 08:25 Still seem to be struggling with the time difference a bit, but that's probably just an excuse for not being a morning person. Also the cold sucks. 08:26 yeah. its actually getting chilly here and we still have 10 days of summer left. leaves are already starting to turn 08:26 when i got back from dublin (DUBLIN!!! \o/) it took a few days to get right on sleep too 08:28 K2: I'm okay (and more okay by the day, recovering from trifling but exhausting medical procedure) 08:28 when i was in cambodia back in the mid 90's I remember the USD having crazy spending power. could live like a king there on just 800-1000 a month. still that way? 08:29 Tangles: it's not more virtuous to be a morning person so you don't need an excuse :-) 08:30 (I happen to *be* a morning person but most of my family aren't, only one daughter is and she can stay in bed half the day anyway, reading) 08:31 K2: Yeah pretty much... They just use USD as their unofficial currency there anyway. We were eating really nice meals in restaurants and spending about $15 for 2 of us. 08:32 nice 08:32 i remember everyone being really friendly, especially if you tried to speak khmer 08:32 gah, a gold golem killed my horse and the dog ate the corpse before I could take a wand of undead turning out of the bag 08:33 wouldnt it be nice if pets didn't dive on corpses in general 08:33 -!- ahrkl has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:34 raisse: There seems to be some kind of unwritten belief here that morning people are more virtuous :/ happier and more wholesome, or something. bleh :P 08:35 not being a morning person is seen as laziness, and that's a moral deficiency 08:35 [hdf-us] [nh4] keleseth (hackedhead) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 32149 points, T:1619, killed by an orcish arrow 08:36 yeah that's probably all it is. 08:36 does it matter *when* you wake up so long as you stay up for 21 hrs a day? :) 08:36 I need more than 3 hours, I'm not my father 08:36 * K2 is on 3 hrs sleep today 08:37 6 1/2 for me, usually midnight to 6:30 08:37 was working on obj properties for evilhack. damn i hate sgrunt 08:38 i have it working but i'm not finished. i dont want to commit until I have something solid. that way if anyone else wants to do obj prop for 3.6.x they'll have a good commit to use 08:38 K2: The Khmer people were wonderful. Really happy and upbeat, with great senses of humour, but a little bit introverted. I really liked them. Kind of makes what happened to them even sadder. 08:38 ^ that 08:40 i'd love to go back someday 08:41 never got to see angkor wat, was too dangerous to go there at the time 08:44 I got some good photos :) 08:48 Angkor Wat and some of the other nearby temples are really amazing, but the nearby town (Siem Reap) is just wall to wall luxury hotels and resorts, markets with kitchy souvenirs, restaurants, cafes and bars, including a strip called 'Pub Street'. 08:48 heh 08:48 oh did you go to any buddhist temples? 08:49 Yeah. 08:49 doing that was one of my fav things to do 08:49 got to ride an elephant 08:52 * hothraxxa reads scrollback conversation about keys, looks for faceplam emoji 08:52 heh 08:56 argh I had one in my bag 08:56 just never identified it 08:59 if I don't find an altar soon I'll use the last wish from this wand for grayswandir 08:59 I'm still wielding my corroded +0 pick-axe 09:03 raisse: you'll find an altar in the next room after you wish for it 09:04 I know, just like the amulet of reflection 09:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed rustproof +2 Mjollnir", on T:1555 09:09 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 795 points, T:1776, killed by an acidic corpse 09:14 yay sleep resistacne at last 09:14 Is it working? 09:16 nothing has tried to put me to sleep yet 09:17 using a large leppy hall for saber practice 09:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed Eye of the Aethiopica", on T:3023 09:33 YANI: For some or all of Gehennom, there is a one-way gate or staircase that you can't return past unless you have the Amulet. 09:37 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 7129 points, T:4367, killed by a white unicorn 09:39 umm. no. 09:42 heh... I kill an ettin, which turns out to be a chameleon. Feed the corpse to my dog... it turns into an ettin! 09:43 It's the circle of life. 09:45 \o/ 09:45 ettins for everyone 09:45 GIVE EVERYONE ETTIN, said Major --- de Coverley. 09:46 oh for some reason i remember he spoke like Death, but that's not true apparently 09:47 keep your powder dry,and don't shoot until you can see theyre eyes! 09:56 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Kni Elf Fem Cha) destroyed elenmirie's ghost, the former Initiate, on T:12909 10:10 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 10:13 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:17 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the Malcanthet, on T:34656 10:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (disenchanter), on T:3889 10:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3906 10:54 YANI: implement hoard scarabs from D&D. Yellow x, can hide under (and are generated solely under) object piles containing at least 25 gold pieces using M1_HIDE, special case prevents them from hiding under gold-free locations, have a nasty poisonous bite. Maybe they also pop out at you from inside chests that have gold in them. 10:54 ^ thats a good one 10:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed Baalzebub, on T:35351 10:58 -!- Semilg has joined #hardfought 10:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:5018 10:59 <@bugsniper> epi: implement the scarab of death which kills you if you wear it or carry it several rounds, unless you succeed a reflex check with a high dex 11:00 <@bugsniper> also from D&D 11:01 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 13045 points, T:5453, killed by a giant mummy 11:06 <@Tone> @bugsniper At least that would make dex useful for something 11:07 why would anyone wear it or carry it 11:07 <@bugsniper> because it's unidentified 11:08 <@luxidream> YANI: dex save for falling into pits or holes 11:08 <@bugsniper> and other traps like boulder traps and beartraps 11:08 meh, I'm not a fan of "thing that kills you if you use-test it" 11:10 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:10 +1 11:10 <@luxidream> There’s a silly dex save for elemental spheres that doesn’t make much sense 11:11 you mean "you duck some of the blast"? 11:12 <{Demo}> that's not too silly 11:12 <@luxidream> Right, you can’t avoid any other kind of explosion, and there are no other dex saves like that in the game 11:13 Why don't spheres use the actual explode() code rather than "exploding" at one single target? 11:13 <{Demo}> cause it's their turn 11:13 <{Demo}> wait no 11:13 <{Demo}> thought it was explosion blame related 11:13 <{Demo}> nevermind 11:14 <@Tone> That comes from the dnd evasion ability which gives a dex save vs AOE damage. But yes it's a bit strange how it only applies to sphere explosions in nethack 11:14 <@luxidream> spheres aren’t aoe 11:14 <@luxidream> That’s why they don’t explode 11:15 <@Tone> I always assumed the flavor behind it was that they exploded. Never thought much about it though 11:16 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Kni Elf Fem Cha) had a leather armor entrusted to her by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:13995 11:17 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a silver dragon, on T:10012 11:18 <@Tone> I'd submit a YANI that all spheres should explode like gas spores, but I think it would just be annoying in practice 11:18 <@Tone> Just beacuse of the way explosions, monster AI, and peaceful/tame monsters work in nethack 11:18 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Sam Hum Mal Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:22688 11:28 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 11:30 -!- Gaelan has quit [Client Quit] 11:33 -!- dopplergange has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 323 points, T:1474, killed by a gnome 11:36 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 11:37 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 11:39 [hdf-us] [evil] hothraxxa (Kni Elf Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:14598 11:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] Demo (And-Ana And Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:38236 11:51 YANI: adrenaline special buff: only kicks in when HP is below 20 and below 10%, and no other status ailments. Gives to-hit and damage bonuses. 11:52 yay a coaligned altar 11:52 still glad I wished for grayswandir because I probably wouldn't have made it here without it 11:53 I would see adrenaline as kicking in when you've taken a big hit, say more than 20% of your HP, in a single turn 11:53 but now I can bless all my water and uncurse the bones stuff (2 lots of bones) 11:53 Muad: good idea 11:53 aosdict, stolen from Jupiter Hell! 11:53 ideally there would also be some exhaustion that kicks in after you're out of danger, but "out of danger" is hard to test for 11:54 yep 11:54 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 11:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 11:54 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased fireproof +2 cloak of magic resistance", on T:11972 11:58 -!- kimeemaru has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59 -!- kimeemaru has joined #hardfought 12:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 12:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 12:11 <@luxidream> elf lord 12:11 <@luxidream> orc name 12:11 <@luxidream> ??? 12:11 poly'd probably 12:12 imagine being an orc poly'd into an elf. ewww yuk 12:12 talk about being in hell 12:13 [backscroll] the adrenaline thing - potion of booze acts that way for a dwarf 12:13 *make 12:15 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 12:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 12:15 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:18 <{Demo}> patch that adds booze variations 12:21 wooo 12:21 likey 12:22 YANI: allow reading labels on identified potions of booze 12:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:8883 12:30 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:32 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:14799 12:39 You read the potion of booze. 'Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill'. 12:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:51 aosdict: Is the stuff I did for reading signet rings and runed weapons and whatnot in the branch you looked through? 12:51 Or is that stuff still all on bleeding-edge that you probably ignored? 12:51 is that like dnethack does it? 12:52 Dunno. Haven't played dnethack much since... circa 2014, IIRC. 12:52 I think this was on whatever the default branch is 12:52 I didn't look at other branches 12:52 Default branch is master, which is currently still 4.3.0.4-compatible. 12:53 About a third of the Fourk development I've ever done is on bleeding-edge but not on master, because of save compatibility breaks. 12:53 I really needed to get it save-stable at some point and roll it out, but. 12:54 yes 12:54 please :P 12:55 Oh, wait. 12:56 Actually, I think that stuff might not _even_ be on bleeding-edge. Might be on the feature branch "runics". 12:56 Which I may or may not have even ever pushed publicly. 12:57 Ah, I did. 12:57 https://github.com/tsadok/nhfourk/commits/runics 12:57 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 12:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 12:58 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:21270 13:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:14359 13:08 I thought that dtsund scaled armor thing wasn't implemented by anyone! 13:08 Nice to have code to draw on. 13:10 are runes supposed to be like object properties or what 13:12 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 13:13 Dwhat happened to dtsund anyway 13:15 dtsund? 13:16 Rodney | dtsund quit (Quit: dtsund), 1507d 8h 35m ago 13:16 lol 13:16 like 4-ish years 13:16 lemme rephrase 13:16 dtsund? 13:17 actually i don't remember how far they were involved into nethack 13:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:14712 13:17 didn't dtsund ragequit nethack game design after suggesting "the wizard should not steal quest artifacts" and the devteam said "OK. The Wizard now steals ALL quest artifacts" 13:18 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 gauntlets of power", on T:14719 13:18 huh 13:18 he'd hate the WoY in evilhack then 13:19 do you mix him up with t ungtn who was the one making the proposal? 13:19 possibly 13:19 Would that be the OG "Report suggested [...]. I went another direction: " :O 13:19 but something was there 13:19 i don't really remember very well 13:19 is there a reason you put a space in their name? they're in this channel... 13:20 yes, i wanted to prevent hilighting 13:20 i dont think i've ever seen tungtn speak here 13:20 ever 13:20 PavelB: No, that was the highly unpopular green slime thing 13:20 -!- captain42 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20 genociding green slimes while turning to slime doesn't save you 13:20 * K2 doesnt mind hilighting 13:20 I know that, I was saying that this came from before the green slime thing 13:21 stenno: dtsund was one of the major NH4 developers. But he vanished into thin air around the time of the leak. (I know of no evidence that this timing is anything other than a coincidence.) 13:21 aah that was it 13:21 so what is dtsund armor 13:21 K2: Oh, he had a really good proposal for how to handle DSM. 13:22 -!- captain42 has joined #hardfought 13:22 PavelB: In essence, I suppose yes. At least since I got into the game. 13:22 Specifically, DSM as a distinct object is gone, scales go in the cloak slot, and attempting to enchant armor while scales are worn over body armor applies that color of scales to the armor, causing it to provide the resitance or whatever. 13:23 So you could have silver-scaled mithril, which would provide reflection, or gray-scaled plate mail, which would provide MR, etc. 13:24 Shouldn't genociding green slimes, while you are turning into one, cause you to die when the timer runs out? Logically speaking. 13:24 "You have become extinct." 13:25 -!- kimeemaru2 has joined #hardfought 13:25 The argument from the other side is that logically speaking, you shouldn't continue to get transformed into green slime matter, since green slime matter should be gone from the universe 13:25 jonadab thats neat 13:26 aosdict: then logically, corpses of genocided monsters should also disappear, yet those pesky cockatrice corpses persist when I blessed geno "c" :D 13:26 nope 13:26 oh! what happens if you turn undead the corpse of a genocided monster? 13:27 genocide magic needs a lifeforce to latch onto 13:27 corpse != alive 13:28 -!- kimeemaru has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:28 Yes, but what happens to the corpse itself? Can you still whack things with it? 13:28 (Also, I think FIQHack's solution to c corpses would be perfectly at home in EvilHack.) 13:32 hah whats that 13:33 Whacking a monster with a c corpse in FIQHack starts the multi-turn stoning process, same as if the player gets whacked with one. 13:33 Because symetry. 13:33 evilhack has that 13:33 Ah. 13:33 came from grunthack 13:33 Told you it'd be perfectly at home in EvilHack. 13:34 :) 13:34 high level monster spellcasters can also cast stone to flesh on themselves 13:35 Of course, if EvilHack were really evil, like the EvilPatch, any monster that has hands would have a percentage chance to snatch the corpse from you as you whack it, and whack you back. Final revenge. 13:35 [hdf-us] [nh363] every (Ran Gno Mal Neu), 958 points, T:2406, killed by a rabid rat 13:35 technically an mplayer rogue or hobbit rogue could do that 13:35 And then there's the variant that has the flesh-to-stone monster spell. Don't recall which one that was. Evil. 13:36 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 13:36 -!- kimeemaru2 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:36 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:36 dnethack maybe? 13:37 Might be. 13:37 dnethack's late game is very OP-vs-OP. 13:37 slex has a petrify monster spell, though I don't remember whether it was arcane or clerical 13:37 hah yeah 13:40 "Attack me will you? I shall cast epic familicide, and everyone related to you shall perish!" "Ah, nice try, but I prepared a counterspell that reflects familicide-type spells back to the caster!" "Oooh, good call. Fortunately, I already cast Greater Dispell Counterspell right before our encounter." "Ah, did you? Too bad my counterspell is epic-level, so the Greater Dispell will fail..." 13:42 "Umm, guys? You know I just cast epic-level Hour of Silence, right? None of your spells have any effect whatsoever." 13:44 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed spellbook of identify", on T:17258 13:47 lol 13:48 Of course, now slex will have to implement all those spells. 13:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Sam Hum Mal Law) had Dragonbane bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:26951 13:58 [hdf-us] [nh4] keleseth (hackedhead) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 26414 points, T:1403, killed by a wand, while sleeping 14:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bartlem (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 756 points, T:2553, killed by a gnome 14:04 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 62 points, T:338, killed by a wand 14:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] every (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 599 points, T:1830, killed by a hobbit 14:17 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 14:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:3030 14:28 YANI: change Ludios's door to a drawbridge, and add two more drawbridges on the top and bottom of the throne room. When one goes down, the others all descend to let the monsters swarm out. 14:28 Possibly even put two drawbridges on each the top and bottom walls. 14:31 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 3416 points, T:4230, killed by a soldier ant 14:33 <{Demo}> I'm breaking them all 14:33 <{Demo}> and they can stay where they belong 14:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the Dispater, on T:62249 14:39 !who 14:39 K2: [hdf-us] AntiVirus [nh363] malor [dnh] monstergrin [dnh] hackedhead [nh4] Heliokopis [nh343] | [hdf-eu] rootkit [nh363] spontiff [nh363] Raisse [nh363] Semilg [fh] | [hdf-au] No current players 14:41 [hdf-us] [nh4] keleseth (hackedhead) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 4576 points, T:68, killed by a sewer rat 14:41 prince keleseth eh 14:43 dammit 14:43 did the usual OS update, but this one really wants a reboot 14:43 some things broke and wont fix until reboot 14:43 like git 14:43 blah 14:44 @malor you mind saving game real quick? 14:44 and 2 more ppl just joined hah 14:44 <@malor> done 14:44 i may have to wait til tonight 14:44 <@malor> I'm out. 14:45 k thanks 14:45 lemme see if i can get these others to 14:46 -!- hackedhead has joined #hardfought 14:46 couple more ppl to let know 14:47 then reboot, will be quick 14:47 one to go 14:47 <{Demo}> beatem up 14:48 lol just read the scroll... 14:49 read - the - scroll 14:49 no wall msg for that variant? 14:50 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder 14:50 -!- tolkien.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org, nethack@eu.hardfought.org or nethack@au.hardfought.org ¤ dNetHack 3.18.0 / SpliceHack 0.6.4 now available to play 14:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 14:50 Some server admins would just YOLO reboot it. 14:51 And by "some" I mean kerio. 14:51 -!- K2 has joined #hardfought 14:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o K2] by ChanServ 14:51 <{Demo}> can u rate limit them temporarily and slow their shit down with like an iptables rule? 14:51 <{Demo}> so it's so laggy they have to stop? 14:51 <{Demo}> that would be funny 14:51 That would certainly be possible to do. 14:52 alrighty 14:52 sorry bout that folks 14:52 hackedhead - i dont have the adminmsg setup for 3.4.3 14:52 right 14:52 but i had ppl in 4 diff games 14:52 But it would feel a bit BOFH-ish. 14:52 just as easy to mail them 14:52 <@malor> I wouldn't stop or notice. I often only hit one keystroke every several seconds anyway as I'm working and playing at the same time 🙂 14:53 ah geez 14:53 same error... hmm 14:53 @malor Sure, but you just set it up so the lag doubles every second until everyone's off :-) 14:53 needed teh reboot anyway but gdamn 14:53 git pull 14:53 usr/lib/git-core/git-remote-https: relocation error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgnutls.so.30: symbol _idn2_punycode_decode version IDN2_0.0.0 not defined in file libidn2.so.0 with link time reference 14:53 <@malor> quite with that, my clients will catch on to our strategies! 14:53 never seen that before heh 14:54 K2: Uninstall/reinstall libgnutls? 14:54 perhaps 14:55 the kernel used is aws specific 14:55 i wonder if aws borked ubuntu 14:55 Any chance we can blame systemd? 14:55 (I mean, I don't see how, but... it's always so tempting.) 14:55 uh oh 14:56 wow... same error if i issue apt-get update 14:56 <{Demo}> that's always the first question for troubleshooting 14:56 hdf-eu and au are unaffected 14:56 phew 14:56 they're on an older version tho 14:56 K2: For now. 14:59 argh I mislaid grayswandir 14:59 it's not in my bag or stash box 14:59 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 14:59 miss slayed 14:59 and I can't find any nymphs that can have stolen it 15:00 Nothing with a bullwhip? 15:00 <@malor> I've lost my main weapon a bunch 🙂 Sometimes if you check your "control-P" previous messages you can find it. That has saved me a couple times 🙂 15:00 oh that's a good point, though I haven't met many monsters of kinds that can wield whips yet 15:00 can any bullwhip-having generated monsters even _touch_ grays? i thought it was mostly demons.... 15:01 it's MUCH longer ago than my message history 15:01 this is why i like NH4's replay, too! 15:01 for finding when I forgot to collect my daggers 15:02 to get vanilla ttyrec, I'll have to compile and install a ttyrec thing I suppose 15:02 (which I already tried a while ago, and failed, probably because I'm too stupid) 15:02 can you get a ttyrec before the game ends though? 15:02 I guess you can 15:02 I think you get a new ttyrec every time you save and reload 15:02 right 15:03 it was a silly question, in hindsight. =P 15:03 ok fixed it 15:03 geez 15:04 https://askubuntu.com/questions/1173306/relocation-error-error-code-127-after-last-updates 15:08 <@malor> Is login to dnethack ok again? I'm not sure if "fixed" or "geez" were the definitive terms 🙂 15:09 oh 15:09 sorry lol yeah you're good 15:09 What's the worst that can happen? 15:09 is rld a relay from somewhere? discord? 15:09 yes 15:09 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 15:10 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:14 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 15:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 15:16 argh now I'll never know 15:16 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 15:17 mobbed by a mob, and I was wieldign Snickersnee at unskilled because I needed another xp level to advance 15:17 <@ShivanHunter> RIP 15:17 should have wielded the +3 silver saber of course 15:17 because I was expert in that 15:18 Or retreated to a bottleneck. 15:18 I was trying to do that but the lieutenant came from the other side 15:18 didn't even leave bones because it was the level with the ludios portal 15:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 5756 points, T:3626, killed by a giant mummy 15:22 I seem to yoyo between being too cautious and being too reckless. >_< 15:22 are you me or something? :-) 15:27 Really, the level with the Ludios portal should be bonesable, just remove the portal. 15:29 I know YANIs already exist for allowing bones on branch levels, but let me extend them a bit: when removing special stairs from a level, leave a pit if they were downstairs and a pile of rocks if they were upstairs. Replace the quest and Ludios portals with magic or teleport traps for something more interesting than removing them entirely. 15:31 -!- AntiVirus has joined #hardfought 15:31 hi all, my first time on here. I've been enjoying Nethack on hardfought but recently got a frozen game. Is there any way for me to get it unstuck? 15:32 I'm getting that "destroy game y/n" message. Of course I chose N lol 15:33 <@riker> k2 can probably restore to the last save 15:35 yeah I read something about an fg command at the terminal to unstick a frozen game. Obviously that's for someone with console access 15:36 and then if that doesn't work, there's a recover process. Pretty please if someone can try fg 15:37 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Fg 15:38 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) killed the invisible Dark One, on T:20738 15:38 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) picked up the Bell of Opening, on T:20739 15:40 AntiVirus: was this vanilla nethack or a variant? 15:40 it could be a legitimate infinite loop, if it's a variant 15:41 vanilla 3.6.3 15:41 I had putty open in the background at work heh 15:42 normally I can get reconnected after I go idle, but not this time 15:43 The strange thing is I remember it counting down to restore the old game, but who knows why it didn't work. Maybe I hit control +z and killed my window. Not sure. 15:43 playing US server, AntiVirus ? 15:44 I think hterm doesn't have ctrl-z suspend, or possibly the server nethack binary itself 15:44 yeah in my xnethack game I get "suspend command not available", so I don't think the problem is that you suspended the process 15:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] aosdict (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 251746 points, T:34817, quit 15:45 .... 15:45 ARGH 15:45 too used to #quitting in debug games 15:45 K2 I need to borrow your spare throwing keyboard real quick 15:49 go for it 15:49 might be some keys missing 15:49 and some of the outer casing... 15:49 might be bent too... 15:50 haha 15:50 :) 15:50 aosdict i've done that before. feel your pain 15:51 well now I can start an xnh ranger like I wanted to 15:51 oh hey AntiVirus 15:51 just read the backscroll 15:51 one sec 15:51 I haven't fixed the problem that the second half of the game is boring yet and it was starting to get boring 15:52 AntiVirus game recovered 15:52 i think you were idling when i had to reboot server 15:53 aaaah 15:53 yeah that makes sense 15:53 not a normal occurance 15:53 all good, I'm an admin so I get it. Reboots happen 15:53 had a significant issue, reboot was warranted sooner rather than later 15:53 ah cool 15:54 AntiVirus what do you admin? 15:54 I'm a windows guy 15:54 heh 15:54 same 15:54 shit i do it all 15:54 So I work as a sysadmin, currently for the Golden Gate Bridge as it happens 15:54 you? 15:55 even have an aging AS400 here at work. hate that thing 15:55 yeah haha I know what you mean 15:55 sysadmin at my work also 15:55 only one 15:55 oh wow, yeah the AS....don't tell me you have domino too 15:55 so i am also help desk and network engineer etc etc 15:55 that stuff is horrible 15:55 no not that 15:56 yea, you do it all eh? and support nethack. Thank you kindly for that. I've been enjoying this server. 15:56 where are ya located K2? 15:56 today was make a script and GPO to force my users to backup their shit to their personal network drive like i asked them to a year ago 15:56 so now i do it for them ;) 15:56 in vermont 15:56 ahaha now that's familiar 15:56 and thanks i am glad you're enjoying hdf 15:56 You can tell people until you're blue in the face to save things to their network drive, but they never listen 15:57 no doubt 15:57 we have a lot of aging windows 7 boxes here... hard drives are starting to go bad slowly but surely 15:57 so i am no longer waiting for users to do right thing 15:57 so yeah good for you building something idiot proof. Lately I've become a fan of redirected folders into onedrive. When I was consulting we set up a company like that when we moved them to Office356. that was a pretty slick arrangement. 15:58 so their documents, desktop and all that was actually redirected into the onedrive sync folder 15:58 the company i work for, because of what we do, cloud solutions arent an option. i have to keep everything in house 15:59 got it, sometimes its that way 15:59 yup 15:59 i'd love to offload a bunch of this stuff to AWS or azure but nope 16:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00 the as400 here has a shotgun with its name on it. god i wanna burn that thing 16:00 haha, yeah go all office space on it 16:00 \o/ 16:00 I'm sure it deserves it. Those are no joy at all 16:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 16:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 16:00 Didn't AS/400 get a stupid name about the same time S/390 did? 16:00 not sure 16:01 my exposure to one didnt really happen until i started here a few years ago 16:01 Oh, "iSeries" 16:01 Thanks K2, my game is back! 16:01 wooot! 16:02 time for drinks 16:02 !booze everyone 16:02 * Beholder throws everyone a shot of the hard stuff, prayed over by the /dev/null/oracle at 91 degrees Fahrenheit. 16:02 Pinkbeast see you at Mulligan's in 30 min 16:03 Sure, I'll just warm up the teleporter 16:03 hahah 16:03 * K2 flaps his arms reeeaaaalllly fast 16:04 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 16:04 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:06 hah AntiVirus i just got your email 16:07 lol, yep 16:07 I emailed but then saw you guys had a chat, so I figured I would go for it 16:07 kinda cool now that I know about it 16:07 I'll be back 16:08 nice 16:08 almost always some kind of chat going on in here, feel free to camp out 16:08 cool, will do! 16:10 dangerous game begun: a rogue with a good stack of daggers, magic marker and magic lamp for the dark mines, mithril available to buy as soon I can afford it all in the first 5 Dlvls 16:11 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed Dagon, on T:64289 16:11 wow not bad. 16:11 hackedhead you are soooo dead 16:11 yuuuuup 16:11 never ever speak of good fortune out loud. the RNG hears all ;) 16:12 and he's a dick 16:12 AntiVirus: if you're into nethack game dev, this is also kinda unofficially the channel for that 16:12 haha I think you may be right because no sooner do I brag do a friend and express my hopes of ascenion, that's exactly when it all goes down hill 16:12 oh that's rad 16:12 now I'll definitely camp out 16:13 i should bug paxed about whatever 16:13 * K2 pokes paxed 16:14 all bugs fixed in nethack when? 16:15 :P 16:16 he's ignoring me again 16:16 hahah 16:18 aaaaaaand i angered the watch while blind 16:18 *sigh* 16:18 :/ 16:19 dig 16:19 lol 16:19 E word 16:19 digging below MT is dangerous 16:20 and you can't E while blind, and you can't E an @ anyway 16:20 ah yeah that does make sense 16:20 no unicorn horn eh? 16:20 no, only 2600 turns into the game 16:20 so now I killed a watchman and lost 16pts of alignment 16:20 which usually means I ragewuit. 16:21 because recovering from that is tedious 16:21 and I hate having the blemish on my conduct record. >_< 16:23 K2: what? 16:24 K2: there's always more bugs. like the ball'n'chain distance one. 16:24 si 16:24 i was messing with you :P 16:25 sure 16:25 <@Tone> oh btw paxed, I was looking at that reddit thread this morning and it seemed to me that most people were defending 3.6 16:25 ^ that 16:25 yeah. it's always the negative ones that stick to mind 16:26 * K2 looks at LarienTelrunya 16:26 and i think comicalUser is JarlEarl here 16:26 talk the same way 16:26 you remember JarlEarl... 16:27 nope 16:27 most epic rage quit meltdown I've ever hjad the priviledge to witness 16:28 an exploding door in evilhack put him over the top 16:28 aaanyway, i need to go to sleep, work seminar thingy tomorrow and friday. 16:28 he used to complain the same way about movement in 3.6.x here 16:28 ok paxed gnite 16:29 K2: what you lookin' at? :P 16:29 YOU weirdo 16:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] Xaleth (Val Dwa Fem Law), 767 points, T:2032, killed by a rothe 16:29 lol what? 16:29 3.6.x is *not* a variant 16:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] oh6 (Cav Hum Mal Neu), 2990 points, T:2826, poisoned by a soldier ant 16:30 haha 16:30 :) 16:30 <@Tone> paxed: Those negative voices would probably prefer 3.6 to vanilla 343 anyways, I'm sure they are playing 343 NAO which wouldn't be a thing without you 16:31 LarienTelrunya you should do this - refactor slex on 3.6.x, and then tweak the bits from 3.6 you dont like 16:32 clean slate 16:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the Glasya, on T:64820 16:33 hackedhead, I would stick with it and just sacrifice back into good graces. 16:33 kill them all 16:33 i mean err... yeah what AntiVirus said 16:34 "These are the things the devs think are important even though no one really asked for them save for some top tier players and some variant devs." Wait, what? Do I have a voice at the table as a variant dev? Does luxidream have one as a top tier player? I must exert this newfound influence over the devteam! :P 16:35 <@Tone> Monster movement was kind of awkward in 360 since speed 12 monsters would occasionally get double actions vs the player. But the current implementation is perfect if you ask me 16:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the Daemon, on T:64920 16:37 <@Tone> aosdict: I'm not sure that many people outside of the devteam realized that 360 was going to be released when it did, let alone have significant input towards its balance changes 16:37 K2: I'd have to undo 99% of 3.6 then, don't want to go through all that work :P 16:37 we mock what we dont understand 16:38 lots of the usual elbereth complaints in that thread... seems like the majority of players agreed that it needed a nerf but had very little agreement on how it should be nerfed 16:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Arc Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:21415 16:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:15775 16:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Arc Dwa Fem Law) genocided master mind flayer, on T:21416 16:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Arc Dwa Fem Law) genocided mind flayer, on T:21417 16:40 I'm totally happy with the changes to elbereth in 3.6. It was so broken before 16:40 @Tone it also helped to bring in the newer devs, because they've been the main drivers of the few new features we've had so far 16:40 and really lead to some very boring gameplay lol 16:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] Xaleth (Ran Gno Mal Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:960 16:40 the changes to the E word in evilhack i asked the devs to consider years ago 16:40 not surprised it never happened 16:40 ah 16:41 its a bit harsh 16:41 if the devteam hadn't expanded after its 3.4.3 release, it probably would just have been PatR fixing bugs and never implementing anything new... forever 16:41 in evilhack you cant use the E word until you learn it in-game 16:41 <@Tone> Antivirus: yeah I feel pretty invincible with Elbereth when I play 343 nowadays. You can do some really silly things 16:41 muhahahah 16:42 Elbereth> Let me sing the praises of "one use per game" once again :-) 16:42 doh 16:42 <@Tone> It's still very strong but I think it works well with the overall game balance personally 16:43 I think it's an interesting idea to remove it entirely 16:43 i think in nh4 you can turn it on/off 16:43 and rebalance things to allow slightly more escapes other than E-word 16:43 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Arc Dwa Fem Law) polymorphed her first object, on T:21491 16:44 between a horn and a scroll of scare monster, what else do you really need 16:44 rico, smoke! 16:45 horns are very strong -- if you find one 16:45 ^ penguins of madagascar reference for you weirdos that dont watch it 16:45 time to nerf horns 16:45 ^ paxed 16:45 * K2 ducks 16:48 YANI: ninja smoke grenades 16:52 <@Tone> Elbereth is mostly used by low hp growth characters in the early-mid game ime, you usually don't have scare tools or scare monster by then 16:53 that's where I found it most useful. Written in the dust by a low hp wizard actually gives the little guy a fighting chance to survive to a wish lol 16:54 but I almost would rather write it in the dust vs engrave now that there is a penalty for fighting on an elbereth square 16:54 <@Tone> Engrave is good for when you need 100% success chance, or if you have to rest on the tile for a while 16:55 ya 16:55 <@Tone> If you are smart about it then dust will get you through most situations though 16:55 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:55 <@Tone> ie don't wait until you might be dead the following turn 16:56 <@Tone> Heck, I use it sometimes just to get the to-hit bonus from fleeing monsters 16:57 jilles: I wrote a ward proposal several months ago to that effect (replacing Elbereth) 16:58 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 16:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 16:58 <@Tone> If it were easier to identify consumables earlier, then you could probably get through most situations that could require Elbereth just by using your resources a bit 16:59 pssh you mean my soon-to-be water bottles? 16:59 ;) 16:59 <@Tone> lol yep 16:59 true that would be interesting 17:00 making consumables identifiable earlier just pushes the interesting part of the game into a smaller section 17:00 if I actually knew I was carrying a potion of paralysis or something I might actually use it tactically 17:00 aosdict, my idea with removing Elbereth would be removing all useful use of engraving 17:00 not replace Elbereth with something else that you can write in the dust 17:02 @Tone I know there was a proposal to imitate some other roguelike (GKH?) and make unID consumables say that they're definitely one of these 3 or 5 things but you can't narrow it down further 17:03 <@Tone> I'd hate to change the nethack ID systems much, it's so classic and unique imo 17:03 <@Tone> I've played a lot of GKH though and that does sound like the GKH system 17:03 <@Tone> The GKH system is really cool, especially because potions are so strong in that game. They are your primary consumable resource 17:04 <@Tone> It's fun to make intelligent gambles based on the information you have 17:04 yeah thinking back to when I was totally new at the game, and all the stupid behaviors I had. The ID systems was punishing in an instructive kind of way. 17:05 you know when you first start out with nethack knowing nothing, you start to figure out that you can quaff potions for example...and so you start quaffing all kinds of potions stupidly 17:05 why rob new players of these hilarious, frustrating and punishing experiences? This game taught me what it means to be risk averse 17:06 I mean fuck man, back then I would quaff from fountains as soon as I found them lol 17:06 think of that 17:06 <@Tone> aosdict: Once items are price ID'd, I suppose you end up in that similar situation anyways: knowing that an item is some small subset of items 17:09 except the subset is fixed 17:09 <@Tone> Breaking up some of the larger price ranges, and maybe providing a guaranteed general store early in the dungeon (say dlvl 2 or 3), would probably lead to a sikmikar scenario 17:09 <@Tone> Ah, yes that is true. So the strategy for dealing with each subset is the same every game 17:10 And you don't (or at least I don't) want to encourage price ID. It's a clunky system that basically says you need spoilers 17:10 <@Tone> I suppose you could add a level of randomization to the base prices if you wanted to go that route, but still leave them in rough tiers so that better items are generally more valuable 17:11 Lots of ideas have been bandied around on this subject already. In the case of randomizing base prices, you would most likely end up with everyone aggravated that they can't reliably price ID anymore 17:11 <@Tone> hmm I suppose if I were doing something like that, I'd let the player #chat to the shopkeeper or something to automatically learn the base price of everything and also get an in-game list of the price brackets 17:12 <@Tone> btw I'm not saying this would be an improved system, just brainstorming out loud one way it might be implemented 17:13 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 17:14 <@Tone> heh, so people don't want to price ID but also don't like not being able to price ID :) 17:15 lol I'm a player who don't want to price ID and don't want to be able to price ID :D 17:15 <@luxidream> price id makes the ID game way more interesting 17:16 price ID makes the ID game way more cumbersome! 17:16 <@luxidream> Without price ID you’re just blind identifying everything 17:16 <@luxidream> No strategy involved whatsoever 17:16 if there were no price ID we would have to take a lot more risks 17:17 there are alternate ways of IDing things, such as e.g. wearing a ring for 10k turns and getting no stat increases whatsoever = sustain ability :D 17:17 <@luxidream> I think there’s some skill gap in players who know what to identify after price and players that don’t 17:17 and to me that's one of the beautiful things about nethack is the ah-ha moment when you learn you can avoid almost all of the risks if you change your behavior 17:18 LarienTelrunya, I think keeping track of such things is even more tedious than price ID 17:18 yeah there's other ways. like engrave ID for wands 17:18 <@luxidream> It becomes completely brain dead when you remove price id 17:18 and you would just use more scrolls 17:18 rebatela: Message from K2 at 2019-09-10 15:52 EDT: what were you using to try and see the sokoban prize glyphs? 17:20 do people use ML or DL with nethack botting 17:20 The only really critically important thing to price ID is 20zm scrolls. 17:21 Everything else you can find out other ways. 17:21 <@Tone> Yes, I'd agree that the act of buying/selling to price ID can be tedious, but the identification system overall is pretty deep 17:21 Though for certain roles, pricing books can save a lot of resources. 17:21 <@Tone> If you want to go that far, then it's not too difficult to ID identify scrolls based on generation probability too 17:22 jonadab, but with price ID you have the information earlier, which is valuable 17:22 jilles: For some things, sure. 17:22 <@luxidream> jonadab: that reduces your edge significantly 17:22 For other things (e.g., potions) it's pretty pointless. 17:22 <@Tone> but to lux's point, knowing what to use those scrolls on based on price brackets makes a big difference 17:22 for example enchant weapon and enchant armour scrolls, and rings to select for scroll ID 17:23 I admmit, pricing rings can save you several ID scrolls in the early game, in non-Fourk. 17:23 In Fourk, you just curse-check the rings and then go to Delphi and buy enlightenment from the Oracle. 17:26 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:27 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought 17:27 Or drop them down a sink and then dig them back up. 17:28 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 17:28 -!- AntiVirus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) wished for "Blessed fireproof bag of holding", on T:9514 17:39 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:45 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 17:55 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:56 then you have variants where your race and the race of the shopkeeper has a direct bearing on prices 17:57 i find that a lot more interesting and fun than vanilla shopkeeps 17:58 YANI: new skill - haggling 17:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:5531 17:59 k2: i don't remember exactly what happened in sokoban. maybe i misunderstood how it's supposed to work. at medusa now 17:59 ok 18:00 i asked hothraxxa plus tested again myself, its behaving like its supposed to (minus one little nagging bit i want to correct) 18:00 but that bit is actually in your favor 18:01 lost 9 pts of protection (twice) praying too soon. So mad lol 18:01 you like price id with lots of different dimensions influencing the price? do you also like 5D chess? 18:01 but i'm doing ok 18:01 daaamn 18:01 bhaak - 11 dimensional chess, thank you 18:01 once i kill the priest can get my 100g's back i'll be doing better 18:02 rebatela you've fought medusa in evilhack before? 18:02 no 18:02 just read about her in that little blurb w/ new monsters 18:02 ok 18:02 short version - she's tough now 18:02 K2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SnLClNuPUk 18:02 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a wraith corpse, on T:6128 18:03 bhaak lol 18:03 i teleported down to the level below, but it was pretty intense. i had to bail. Also, I have shield of reflection but then can't cast too well. I have amulet of reflection, but only MR is from eye so can't really use that slot 18:03 have a means to unstone yourself 18:03 as in more than once 18:04 yep... 18:04 ok 18:04 tx 18:04 :) 18:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 12197 points, T:6347, killed by a blast of lightning 18:04 i'm kidding, she's easy have fun lol 18:04 i i'd the relfection spell but need a marker book too faint 18:04 haha 18:05 bhaak - i'm waiting for the part where he slams it into the desk or wall and goes nuts 18:06 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 18:08 K2: spoiler: he doesn't. but somewhen he breaks a few pieces off. 18:08 can be fixed, though 18:08 yeah the 27 min mark 18:08 CHEAT 18:08 he does an even larger one here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfMlfEKNxRY 18:10 i remember solving the regular one as a kid 18:10 -!- Gaelan has quit [Client Quit] 18:10 there are even larger ones. 18:10 if i were to try it now i'd prob give myself an aneurysm 18:11 but IIRC anything bigger than a 4x4x4 is using the same solution pattern as either a 4x4x4 or a 3x3x3 18:11 you can start small with a 1x1x1 18:11 hmm 18:11 yeah i train on a 1x1x1 lol 18:13 ok i gotta do dishes before the boss gets home. bbl 18:28 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 18:28 -!- Gaelan has quit [Client Quit] 18:29 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 18:30 -!- Gaelan has quit [Client Quit] 18:32 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33 @luxidream I think I want to remove price ID in the future, but not before giving everything that can be usefully price-IDed some other form of informal identification (label length for scrolls, weight for spellbooks, etc) 18:34 <@riker> was it xnh that used spbk colors to informally ID? pretty sure somebody used the fancier colors as the higher lvl spellbooks (i.e. grey might be protection but flame red might be polymorph) 18:35 not xnethack. xnethack has already solved the spellbook one by doing spellbook weight and letting you see weights 18:35 <@riker> ah neat 18:35 (fiqhack's idea) 18:36 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 18:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 18:37 I've been thinking that for potions, rather than dumping them down the drain of a sink to get a clue, you can instead pour in water from the faucet, giving you the same clue but only making the potion diluted instead of gone outright. 18:37 <@luxidream> I guess rings could range from rather uninteresting descriptions to unnecessarily gaudy 18:37 (EPI for that: 1/30 of the time, a random potion comes out instead and interacts alchemically with the potion) 18:38 <@riker> "light-catching rhinestone embedded gold ring" 18:38 I'd like to think that xnh also makes rings fairly easy, since the chance of losing it to a sink is low and you can retrieve it without destroying the sink 18:39 (and if you want to retrieve it by destroying the sink to avoid black pudding problems, that's an option too.) 18:40 <@luxidream> What are the odds of losing a ring in xnh 18:40 20% I think? though it might be lower 18:40 aosdict speaking of seeing weights - there's a minor bug 18:41 i need to recreate it, been awhile 18:42 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought 18:42 I'm also probably going to implement fourk oracle enlightenment at some point, providing another avenue for rings 18:42 ah there it is... screenshot time 18:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Asmodeus, on T:31169 18:46 aosdict just sent you an email 18:49 my debug game provides me with a pair of platinum snow boots in the first room 18:50 $$$ 18:50 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 18:52 sorry, what action are you getting a selection from that produces this? I can't reproduce it 18:52 wield a weapon 18:52 you must have some option different from me 18:55 ah hell 18:55 yup 18:55 maybe i didnt get an xnethack report on this and thought i did 18:55 <{Demo}> is hdf fixed? 18:55 yeah 18:55 hmm so what did i do 18:55 * K2 goes to backtrack 18:57 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:31596 19:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bar Orc Mal Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2322 19:03 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 19:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:66569 19:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 4020 points, T:2895, quit 19:05 !who 19:05 K2: [hdf-us] AntiVirus [nh363] malor [dnh] rikersan [dnh] Heliokopis [nh343] Ardub [xnh] | [hdf-eu] rsa [nh363] | [hdf-au] No current players 19:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 129 points, T:298, killed by a grid bug 19:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed Helping Hand", on T:66889 19:09 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11 <@riker> lmao, my first gift was being used by a dwarf 19:11 <@riker> thanks for keeping it safe I guess 19:13 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 19:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 19:13 Sup 19:13 AntiGulp: Message from aosdict at 2019-09-10 23:19 EDT: why is the "fell beast" encyclopedia entry the weathertop nazgul quote? if you want a better quotation, see The Return of the King, beginning of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields chapter 19:14 <+Beholder> you have 8000 more messages 19:14 <+Beholder> and all of them have to do with the encyclopedia 19:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:67118 19:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bar Orc Mal Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1518 19:15 * AntiGulp institutes a one year feature freeze in order to write a novella in the encyclopedia. 19:15 noooooo! :P 19:16 New Feature: Attempting to search nethack in the encyclopedia prints out the entirety of the wiki. 19:17 As skyrim modders would say: “It’s immersive.” 19:17 we had a discussion recently about price id alternatives 19:18 I was reading the backscroll throughout the day! I have… opinions 19:18 please express them then 19:19 First, I should not be allowed to have Elbereth opinions. I play almost entirely without Elbereth, and in my ascensions I think I only used it once or twice. I forget it exists sometimes. 19:20 It started out as a way to force myself not to use it as a crutch, then it turned into a (bad) playstyle. 19:21 * K2 approves 19:22 e word bad. BAD 19:22 (agree) 19:22 I’m in the “Price ID is difficult” camp. I don’t like that it exists for reasons that were already mentioned, namely that it practically requires spoilers to use. The only real exception to this is scrolls of ID. That said, attempting to remove price ID would make a lot of people *really* mad, and it also makes sense for more powerful items to cost more. I see it as sort of a necessary evil. 19:23 before I forget - AntiGulp, the new monsters in your convict patch, are they all part of the convict patch or are some of them your own creation? 19:23 K2: All part of the convict patch. 19:23 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Baalzebub, on T:32393 19:23 cool 19:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:67280 19:24 AntiGulp: With price fuzzing, you can have more powerful items costing more without being able to pin them down as a certain tier 19:24 Also, I don’t agree with the reddit post talking shit about 3.6. While there are things I dislike about 3.6, I vastly prefer it to 3.4.3, and I think the DevTeam has done a wonderful job. Plus the post is obnoxious. 19:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] every (Ran Orc Mal Cha), 1676 points, T:2121, quit 19:25 See, I *personally* really like price fuzzing, especially since I’m too lazy to use Price ID 90% of the time. I know there are a lot of people who swear by Price ID though. 19:25 so the only real problem is the lack of... political capital isn't the right word. Developers' capital? 19:26 Of course, there are probably going to be some things you can't price fuzz, like oil/magic lamps. But that's probably acceptable. 19:26 I don’t know if I would put it that way. I think it’s a change that makes sense and is in keeping with theme, but a large portion of the community would probably not see it that way. 19:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided class U, on T:32467 19:28 Huh, I don’t know if I’ve seen a class U genocide before. 19:28 jonadab: did you ever come up with a snappy term for what I'm trying to describe here (like when talking about how you don't have enough "X" to nuke MC)? 19:28 AntiGulp: U includes mind flayers 19:28 ooooooh 19:30 <@Tone> Antigulp: "...it also makes sense for more powerful items to cost more." -- Another thing from GKH is that all unidentified potions cost the same, and their prices vary once they are identified. This seems to solve that for the most part. 19:30 I think part of the problem is that a change like that can come off as a “screw you” to the players that choose to Price ID. While I obviously don’t think that’s what it is, the “fixing” of an established exploit never goes over well in communites. 19:30 <@Tone> Although in practice, it means that I try to buy lots of potions before they are identified. 19:30 GKH? 19:31 <@Tone> That's probably just because they are a little cheaper than they should be while unidentified. 19:31 <@Tone> Golden Krone Hotel 19:31 the vampires and sunlight roguelike 19:31 (or at least that's my very brief impression of it) 19:31 <@Tone> It's sort of like a simplified DCSS with a unique core mechanic 19:32 <@Tone> actually I take that back, "simplified DCSS" isn't fair to GKH 19:32 Ooh, I might have to try that! 19:32 <@Tone> It's definitely inspired by GKH in a few areas 19:33 @Tone well making all unidentified items cost the same is a new idea to me, so going to flag it as YANI 19:33 <@Tone> inspired by DCSS* 19:33 aosdict: Couldn’t amnesia be used to exploit that? 19:33 hmm 19:33 (doesn't count as "fully realized in some variant" if it's not a nethack variant, ha) 19:33 all unidentied items the same price? 19:33 dont like that 19:33 AntiGulp: Not if you removed amnesia 19:34 xnethack removed it 19:34 <@Tone> AntiGulp: It's a really good roguelike, I definitely recommend it 19:34 Tone: I think I might give it a shot. I need something to stop me from diving back into cataclysm 19:39 \ 19:42 [hdf-us] [nh343] Heliokopis (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:24427 19:45 -!- Semilg has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47 -!- Semilg has joined #hardfought 19:51 -!- Semilg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52 [hdf-us] [nh363] Bliss56 (Val Dwa Fem Law) polymorphed her first object, on T:22954 19:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:69061 19:53 -!- Semilg has joined #hardfought 20:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 20:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 20:05 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: ZZAZZ] 20:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bar Orc Mal Cha) was given Limited Moon, on T:11388 20:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) destroyed the Pestilence, on T:69282 20:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:10857 20:17 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 20:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bar Orc Mal Cha) was given their Quest, on T:14141 20:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) genocided class R, on T:10863 20:19 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) destroyed the Famine, on T:69349 20:20 [hdf-us] [nh363] AntiVirus (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) genocided class h, on T:10865 20:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed Thoth Amon, on T:15021 20:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bar Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed figurine of a clairvoyant changed", on T:15670 20:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) destroyed the Death, on T:69427 20:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] samiam (Sam Hum Mal Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:29201 20:39 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (And-Ana And Mal Neu) killed the Lugribossk of Ilsensine, on T:69477 20:44 holy shit, the planes in dnh?? 20:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] malor (Ana And Mal Neu), 6822148 points, T:69497, ascended, having saved the future https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/m/malor/dnethack/dumplog/1567986043.dnh.txt 20:44 congrats malor 20:44 <@malor> thanks. Android is extremely fun. A few scary parts. 20:45 dnh is all scary parts afaic 20:45 =P 20:48 malor destroyed "the Death"? 20:49 <@riker> yeah dnh is broken for unique livelog deahts 20:49 grats by the way 20:50 <@malor> That's the very first time I've killed all 3 of the horseman. With Android / Annachronaught you need to find 2 of the altars so it's pretty likely that you will need to visit all 3. 20:53 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 20:55 <@Tone> grats malor! 20:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] monstergrin (Ana Inc Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1757 20:57 <@malor> Thanks 20:57 allo allo 20:58 <@Tone> You just picked up nethack not long ago, didn't you? Cool to see you racking up dnh ascensions 😄 20:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 306862 points, T:19961, aspect of The Silence 20:58 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 20:59 <@riker> !lastgame 20:59 @riker: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/dnethack/dumplog/1568243139.dnh.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/S/Semilg/fiqhack/dumplog/2019-09-11%2020%3A05%3A12%2C%20Semilg-Hea-Gno-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/xnethack/dumplog/1550430124.xnh.html 21:00 <@malor> Yes I first played in early very early July. It’s a great game (especially dNethack) and it is totally turn based so it flows easily with my work flow schedule. 21:00 ^ that 21:04 <@Tone> Good stuff 21:04 <@Tone> Do you play any other roguelikes? 21:04 <@malor> No. So far no need as dNethack has several pretty large differences between roles. 21:05 <@Tone> Yeah, you can play nethack and its variants for a long time without getting bored at all 21:06 thats enough going over more obj property stuff 21:06 gnite all 21:06 <@Tone> see ya K2 21:07 <@riker> night k2 21:08 <@Tone> Is the android role/race new? I don't remember that one 21:08 <@riker> yep 21:08 <@riker> new as of .18 21:08 <@Tone> Cool! Sounds like a fun one 21:08 <@riker> it's a clockwork ana really 21:08 <@riker> but they have a much different playstyle 21:08 <@Tone> ah, that makes sense. Still sounds fun 😄 21:08 <@riker> the reason the livelog separates them is a diff quest (no leader, it's already been overrun and you're kinda screwed) 21:39 -!- tonehack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56 malor that's pretty impressive for no roguelike experience. 21:58 <@malor> I actually played "hack" back in college. So I had some experience. 22:00 fairnuff 22:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] monstergrin (Ana Inc Fem Cha), 9431 points, T:2586, killed by a gnome 22:20 <@monstergrin> malor you ascended! congratulations! 22:20 <@monstergrin> meanwhile i cant stop yasding hah 22:23 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:25 [hdf-us] [nh363] Chansu (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 2655 points, T:7320, killed by a hill orc 22:31 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) permanently converted to lawful, on T:5728 22:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Law), 18333 points, T:5728, quit 23:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:4824 23:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] Cropper (Sam Hum Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a clay golem, on T:4183 23:22 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23 [hdf-us] [nh363] Cropper (Sam Hum Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping 2 apples on an altar, on T:4255 23:29 -!- aioe has joined #hardfought 23:30 -!- aioe has quit [Client Quit] 23:32 -!- aoei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Arc Clk Mal Law), 33308 points, T:10680, killed by an ettin mummy 23:41 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Nhd-Nob Dro Mal Neu) was given the Death-Spear of Vhaerun, on T:2045 23:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Nhd-Nob Dro Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2675 23:45 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 23:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ 23:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] Cropper (Sam Hum Fem Law), 5688 points, T:5858, killed by a giant beetle 23:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] Ardub (Mon Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:35394 23:54 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 23:54 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 23:56 YANI (grudge patch): vault guards vs leprechauns. If they enter a vault and see you polymorphed into a (visible) leprechaun, they become hostile on sight.