00:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 00:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 00:02 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 00:13 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 00:14 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 00:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Tou Hum Mal Neu) had Vorpal Blade bestowed upon him by The Lady, on T:18933 00:42 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 00:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 00:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Tou Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a jackal, on T:19800 00:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] Arimja (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1311 points, T:2642, killed by a human zombie 00:56 -!- wvc has joined #hardfought 01:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 01:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 01:01 [hdf-us] [nh363] ssnufd (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 580 points, T:2650, killed by a fall onto poison spikes 01:03 woo go elenmirie_ 01:06 -!- MisteryMyra has joined #hardfought 01:09 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought 01:12 -!- MisteryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:15 well done elenmirie_! 01:15 ais523: Messages from @luxidream and FIQ have been forwarded to you privately. 01:15 thanks! 01:16 \o/ Congrats elenmirie_! 01:16 ty! 01:16 woot! 01:16 congratulations elenmirie_! 01:16 go - team - splat 01:16 one more for the team! 01:17 @luxidream: NH4 attempts to figure out what command you mean by a movement key, and then performs that command; so you won't ever move a boulder unless you know it's a boulder, you'll just think "oh, I can't move to that space for some reason"; the travel thing is a bug 01:18 FIQ: all the things you mentioned look like bugs to me 01:18 <@luxidream> this has the consequence of permahallu sokoban being impossible to complete 01:18 in the case of autoexplore and boulders, I'm guessing that the autoexplore algorithm thinks that going through the boulder is a better path than going round for some reason 01:19 <@luxidream> not autoexplore, travel command 01:19 I was talking about a bug FIQ reported related to autoexplore and boulders 01:19 I knew about the travel+boulder case already 01:19 vanilla's travel code is a bit flaky in several ways 01:19 I guess the best fix for permahallu Sokoban would be to have hallucinated versions of pushable things look like other pushable things 01:20 a proper implementation would probably need a bunch of hallucinated boulder types 01:20 Junethack: Achievement "Diversity Ascender: Ascended four variants" unlocked by elenmirie! 01:20 Junethack: elenmirie ascended a game of xNetHack on eu.hardfought.org! 01:21 <@luxidream> ais523: would also happen by any chance know how to recover corrupted dyna games in less than several hours? 01:21 <@luxidream> would you* 01:21 <@luxidream> I lost several save files to a previously unknown bug, probably what FIQ told you about 01:21 dyna uses a save system similar to NitroHack's, which is in general impossible to recover; I know that it has some improvements to try to make recovery easier but I don't know the details 01:21 I think some of them were taken from NH4's 4.2save but it isn't exactly the same as 4.2save 01:22 with 4.2save, if a save file is being very hard to recover I would typically just delete chunks from the middle of the save file to see if it helped 01:22 the resulting game was often (not always) playable, if not exactly the same 01:22 there is a reason I ended up rewriting the entire save system for 4.3 :-D 01:26 <@luxidream> ah, I see 01:28 one of my theories as to what randomly corrupts NitroHack saves is that it's using some sort of buffered I/O that isn't multiprocess-safe, but I don't know if that's actually the cause or not 01:28 <@luxidream> K2: would it be against your rules for me to attempt to modify those files and get them working myself? I don't want to ask you to do it, it's probably a lot of work 01:29 um... no 01:29 allow a player to modify their save? especially during a tournament? 01:29 absolutely not 01:30 i'm sorry you lost some of your parked dynahack games. but i cant let you do that 01:30 and on the website, dynahack is listed as a 'play at your own risk' variant 01:30 <@luxidream> what kind of cheating would I be able to do on a parked game? 01:31 thats not the point 01:31 if i let a player modify their own save, no matter the details... my credibility is shot as a server admin 01:31 not happening 01:32 in the future, i'd advise to ascend any dynahack games as soon as possible 01:32 pick another variant to park games 01:32 please dont ask me again 01:33 <@luxidream> OK, sorry 01:33 no need to apologize... just making my stance clear 01:33 <@introsp3ctive> K2: speaking of Dyna saves... I'm stuck with a crashing save. Just got to the planes. 01:33 <@introsp3ctive> For the record, I'm ascending this game lol 01:33 heh 01:34 what error msg do you get, if any 01:34 <@introsp3ctive> If I can continue the save, that is. 01:34 <@introsp3ctive> none 01:34 ugh 01:34 <@introsp3ctive> just crash to main menu 01:34 ok lets look 01:34 <@introsp3ctive> thank you brother 01:34 i've recovered crashed dynahack games before... its ass pain but doable 01:34 us server correct? 01:34 <@introsp3ctive> yessir 01:34 any alias? 01:35 <@introsp3ctive> nah same name 01:35 ok 01:35 one min 01:35 * K2 has to relearn the dynahack crashed game procedure 01:43 @introsp3ctive - what were you doing right before the crash 01:43 <@introsp3ctive> K2: I had just entered the planes for the first time, I was engulfed by a fire ele right after and the first move I attempted while engulfed is what caused the crash 01:45 ok 01:48 @introsp3ctive - i rewound your game by 2 moves. please try and load it 01:48 @luxidream, you still here? 01:48 <@introsp3ctive> Ok 01:51 did it load ok? 01:51 * K2 wonders if dynahack has the same boulder going off the map bug that all the 3.4.3 variants had 01:52 <@introsp3ctive> Looks like it's going alright. Thank you so much. 01:52 @introsp3ctive awesome! 01:52 @luxidream you here? 01:53 lets go for broke, see if we can maybe recover some of these corrupted games 01:53 <@luxidream> yes 01:53 pick a game 01:54 <@luxidream> let's look at "It's time to pay" con-hum-fem-cha 01:54 ok 01:55 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:56 you can crash 3.4.3 (and possibly 3.6.0) by attempting to travel from one corner of a level to the opposite corner when it's almost entirely full of boulders 01:56 @luxidream... this file is a mess 01:56 it's a buffer overflow, the travel buffer doesn't have enough space to handle both the route and all the delays due to boulders 01:56 <@luxidream> is it somehow worse than the others? 01:56 none of the markers that I need to find are present so far 01:57 its worse as in its fundentally different 01:57 *fundementally 01:57 (sp) 01:57 whatever 01:57 you know what i mean 01:57 <@luxidream> let's try a different one 01:57 <@luxidream> how about TAKE THAT tou hum fem neu 01:58 i've just scanned the last 20k lines of code in that first save file... its all a jumbled mess 01:58 ok here we go... 01:58 (still on the first file) 01:58 <@luxidream> wow, it really screwed it up huh? 01:59 yeah 01:59 but i'm in a section now that looks normal 02:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 02:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 02:03 <@luxidream> let me know if you want me to try loading the file 02:04 not yet 02:04 soon 02:04 will let you know 02:04 I typically take a backup of the save before editing it, so that I can try multiple things 02:04 i'm currently stripping out the last 40k or so lines in this file 02:04 yeah we have a backup 02:08 @luxidream - ok. i have no idea how far back this is going to rewind your game. go ahead and try to load 'its time to pay' 02:08 <@luxidream> no good 02:09 yeah was afraid of that 02:09 <@luxidream> decompressing failed at line 28695 02:09 yup i saw 02:10 these games are probably toast 02:11 why cant you have a crash like a normal person 02:11 :P 02:11 <@luxidream> because I figured out how to avoid the crashes 02:11 <@luxidream> :p 02:11 [hdf-us] [nh363] ssnufd (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 5055 points, T:6204, killed by a blue jelly 02:12 someone with the know-how of nh4/nitro should really attempt to fix the serious bugs with this variant 02:12 a fair amount of ppl still enjoy it 02:13 these types of issues make me not want to host dynahack anymore; i hate seeing people lose a promising game to a fatal flaw 02:16 <@luxidream> it's OK, it wouldn't be the first time for me to lose a few games 02:16 I'm not sure if anyone really understands nitrosave; I gave up eventually and just rewrote all the code 02:16 ais523: everything on all 3 hdf servers gets backed up daily, every day for a week. we can go back up to 7 days if need be 02:17 <@luxidream> I lost several in the past due to crashes before you were able to recover dynahack 02:17 :/ 02:17 and dynahack save has even fewer people who know how it works because it has changes that nobody but the author really looked at, as they were too busy trying to figure out nitrosave 02:18 I sort-of understand 4.2save (a "fixed" version of nitrosave in old versions of NH4, no longer used) but although I understand how it's meant to work, it sometimes doesn't and I don't know why 02:18 this is tungtn correct? 02:19 dynahack author? 02:20 yes 02:20 ok 02:23 <@luxidream> thanks a lot for trying though 02:24 <@luxidream> : ) 02:24 no prob... sorry it didnt work out 02:27 [hdf-us] [dyn] introsp3ctive (Val Dwa Fem Cha), 469140 points, T:52825, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/i/introsp3ctive/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2002_26_34%2C%20introsp3ctive-Val-Dwa-Fem-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 02:27 \o/ 02:27 congrats @introsp3ctive 02:27 <@introsp3ctive> thanks! 02:28 grats! 02:28 <@introsp3ctive> elenmirie_: thanks! same to you. I saw you got one earlier as well 02:29 gnite everybody o/ 02:29 <@luxidream> night 02:29 <@introsp3ctive> goodnight 02:29 night! 02:30 thanks, @introsp3ctive 02:39 Junethack: Achievement "Anti-Stoner: defeated Medusa in one variant" unlocked by introsp3ctive! 02:39 Junethack: Achievement "Globetrotter: get a trophy in two variants" unlocked by introsp3ctive! 02:39 Junethack: Achievement "Diversity Ascender: Ascended one variant" unlocked by introsp3ctive! 02:39 Junethack: introsp3ctive ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 02:44 [hdf-us] [dyn] Grog X (jonathanhanes) (Cav Hum Fem Neu), 68972 points, T:51582, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/j/jonathanhanes/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2002_43_58%2C%20Grog%20X-Cav-Hum-Fem-Neu%2C%20ascended.txt 02:48 well done @introsp3ctive 02:48 Junethack: Achievement "Anti-Stoner: defeated Medusa in two variants" unlocked by jonathanhanes! 02:48 well done JonathanHanes, too 02:48 Junethack: Achievement "Globetrotter: get a trophy in two variants" unlocked by jonathanhanes! 02:48 Junethack: Achievement "Diversity Ascender: Ascended one variant" unlocked by jonathanhanes! 02:48 Junethack: jonathanhanes ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 02:48 I should go to bed as well 02:48 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 02:50 <@introsp3ctive> ais523: thank you! I'm heading to bed as well 03:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 03:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 03:07 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in seven variants" unlocked by elenmirie! 03:53 [hdf-us] [evil] PaciFIST (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) had a pair of cloth fencing gloves entrusted to him by Thoth, on T:31099 03:56 Junethack: Achievement "Anti-Stoner: defeated Medusa in two variants" unlocked by ogmobot! 04:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 04:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 04:08 -!- Wolfechu has joined #hardfought 04:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] leonard (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 2124 points, T:6894, killed by a wererat 04:14 [hdf-us] [evil] PaciFIST (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) had a leather armor entrusted to him by Thoth, on T:31642 04:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Val Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:5307 05:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 05:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 05:15 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:18 raisse: https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/basselissier 05:18 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:19 i don't think english has anything other than a "weaver"? 05:36 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 05:38 a newt. 05:39 paxed: yes, but a very specialised weaver in a town full of generalist weavers, so I want something distinguishing. Just calling a spade a spade for now. 05:41 raisse: you'll have to invent a word for it, based on french? 05:43 Merriam Webster (1913) has 'tapiser' and I'm keeping that for when the craft masters talk about this person among themselves, it's not in my protagonist (POV)'s register 05:44 it does look like an invented word based on french :-) 05:44 I thought of this craftsman as more an embroiderer than a weaver but now I realise that he does actually weave his tapestries 05:44 hits all the notes then - looks like you invented, but it's actually real-world historical ;) 05:44 (the craft isn't a focus of the story, it's background) 05:45 but I do want to get the details right 05:52 unrelated fun fact: in french there is a word for a certain kind of window, which is 'vasistas', which is german 'was ist das' ('whats that') 05:52 because germans used to go to france and point at those things and ask 'what is that' 05:53 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vasistas 05:55 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in eight variants" unlocked by spontiff! 06:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 06:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 06:02 I'm french and I just learnt a new word 06:03 :D 06:07 R.I.P. 06:07 !lastgame spontiff 06:07 NHrsa: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/s/spontiff/nethack/dumplog/1543654678.nh.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/s/spontiff/evilhack/dumplog/1560765696.evil.txt 06:14 Junethack: Achievement "Globetrotter: get a trophy in three variants" unlocked by ogmobot! 06:14 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in seven variants" unlocked by ogmobot! 06:52 Junethack: Anerag ascended a game of xNetHack on eu.hardfought.org! 06:54 * NCommander drops in 07:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 07:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 07:01 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in nine variants" unlocked by spontiff! 07:05 coldaemon, which word? 07:18 congrats Anerag 07:18 \o/ 07:20 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in ten variants" unlocked by spontiff! 07:20 nice 07:21 !who 07:21 K2: [hdf-us] Ichabod [slex] | [hdf-eu] janekw [nh363] rsa [evil] | [hdf-au] ogmobot [xnh] 07:22 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 07:24 Thanks K2! I also ended up ascending that recovered game so thanks again for that too 07:24 awesome 07:29 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in eight variants" unlocked by ogmobot! 07:31 -!- Anerag has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in] 07:31 -!- Anerag has joined #hardfought 07:34 NCommander: vasistas 07:35 * NCommander googles 07:36 "vasistas m (plural vasistas) 07:36 transom window (window above a door or another window) 07:36 fortochka (small ventilation window) 07:36 " 08:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 08:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 08:05 * NCommander comes up with a new variant "Sickhack. Quest through 50+ levels of randomly regenerated dungeons representing the humans cardiovasyical system in a quest to defeat the Elder Headache - Migrane, and retrieve the Tylenol of Yendor." 08:15 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Kni Elf Mal Cha), 5273 points, T:4150, killed by a giant mimic 08:15 ^ happy monday 08:15 hah NCommander 08:15 the tylenol of yendor 08:15 the boss monster is a pharmecutical CEO 08:16 Your role is a paramedic, you start with a bunch of healing potions, a stetascope, and a defiberator 08:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] coldaemon (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 179 points, T:592, killed by a small mimic 08:21 R.I.P. ;_; 08:27 NCommander, 0 points, T:1, zapped themselves with a defibrillator 08:27 heh 08:27 clear! 08:27 !pom 08:27 Andrio: The moon is full for 2 more days. 08:28 [hdf-us] [nh4] dinenil (hackedhead) (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 21420 points, T:1232, killed by a water moccasin 08:28 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in eleven variants" unlocked by spontiff! 08:28 Junethack: Achievement "Globetrotter: get a trophy in two variants" unlocked by spontiff! 08:29 * K2 adjusts the eliptic longitude of the sun and moon, causing the moon to be full for the remainder of junethack 08:29 Andrio, actually AEDs used by normal folks and EMT-Bs (whicH I was) actually have a sensor to determine if the heart rhythem is shockable and doesn't let you deliever unless it would help 08:29 "Shock Advised. Charging. Stand clean of patient. Press button to administrate shock" 08:29 Ah 08:29 i'd find a way to bypass it 08:30 someone is gettign zapped 08:30 'come over here carl, hold this for just a sec...' 08:30 ever been tazered? 08:30 K2, paremdics and doctors have manual defiberators, which range from mild tingling to power substation blast 08:31 clear! sir, the patient giggled... 08:32 Where the hell is Amy when you need her 08:32 hah 08:32 The voice of Anhur booms, 'Clear!' 08:32 You fry to a crisp. 08:32 but... i asked for 'mild tingling' setting 08:33 It 08:33 is that or the 'wide-angle disintegration beam' one... 08:33 K2, "damn dial is in metric!" 08:33 lol 08:33 mm 08:33 Ah, paramedics should start with shock resistance, disintergration resistance, and sickness resistance 08:33 (if you've seen the back of a rig after a code, you'll understand what I mean) 08:34 i can imagine 08:35 K2, well picture interstate driving, weaving in and out of traffic in essentially a van rocking back and forth working CPR and the AED, or having a patient launch a case of projectial vomit (it's a thing) 08:35 oh yeah 08:36 stennowork: come back to me 08:36 hm? 08:36 [hdf-us] [nh4] dinenel (hackedhead) (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 25524 points, T:2171, killed by a rabid rat 08:36 where you been 08:36 havent heard a peep from you in days 08:36 have i been gone? 08:36 oh hm 08:37 idk just focusing on other things atm 08:37 K2, it's June, he's been playing NetHack 08:37 nah, no nethacking recently 08:37 is it a secret jedi mission? i understand if you cant talk about it 08:37 some personal stuff to solve 08:37 ah 08:37 wanna 'hear' something funny? 08:37 i should really play to get at least a few more ascension in 08:37 sure? 08:38 is it funny tho 08:38 yesterday I attempted the jedi mind trick on my 7 yr old daughter 08:38 :o 08:38 she just looked at me like her mom usually does 08:38 that 'wtf are you doing now?' look 08:38 maybe it worked 08:38 oh no 08:39 i bet afterwards she forgot that she had to homeworks and the dishes 08:39 had to do* 08:39 I said, while doing the jedi thing, 'be sure to pick up your room before dinner' 08:39 she just laughed 08:39 :/ 08:40 and school just let out so no homework. and she's too small to reach the sink yet 08:40 i asked her why the jedi thing wasnt working, she said her magic was stronger than mine 08:40 maybe she is a powerful Force user herself and can resist it 08:40 yeah 08:40 ok so 08:40 pity 08:40 stennowork I want my money back 08:41 no, no 08:41 this jedi hand bullshit thing never works for me 08:41 gimmie - mah - money 08:41 K2: if you are removing data from a dynahack save 08:41 you MUST adjust the size data on top 08:41 or the game will refuse to load it 08:41 FIQ i did 08:41 "These aren't the bytes you're looking for" 08:42 i could offer you a book 'how to awaken the force in 13 easy steps', written by me, for only 99.99$ 08:42 thats how i was able to recover introsp3ctives crashed saved 08:42 save 08:42 luxidreams saves... holy crap 08:42 its literally full of junk 08:42 stennowork, probably better than the movie 08:42 and in a few years, if it still doesn't work, come back to me and then we can talk 08:42 stennowork: ok sold 08:42 excellent 08:42 * K2 sends a check 08:42 reading backlog -- nitrosave is extremely simple, and in theory should work really well, just that it has disastrous recovery potential since it simply doesn't store gamestate data at all, only commands 08:43 and if you change the game engine in any way 08:43 you render everyone's saves unusable 08:43 ok so 08:43 if its ever fixed, we just increment the version number, and I setup a new folder for it like any other variant update 08:43 dynasave should look the same as 4.2save... what is the difference? 08:44 K2: dynasave isn't the same as nitrosave 08:44 generally, the latter works better but can't be recovered, the former is error prone but can usually be recovered 08:44 i dont a=know anything about either 'dynasave' or nitrosave' 08:44 I am using the same terms as ais523 did earlier 08:45 I was under the assumption that dynahack and nethack 4.2 used the same save system 08:45 given that ais523 claims that it doesn't, it leaves me wanting to investigate 4.2 saves 08:45 please 08:45 maybe dynahack is missing important fixes/whatnot 08:45 or the other way around 08:46 i've had decent luck recovering dynahack crashes 08:46 (which wouldn't help, but would explain them being different) 08:46 but save corruption... ugh 08:46 to my knowledge 08:46 4.2 save corruption is a result of changing options *anywhere* while you have saves 08:46 I assumed dynahack worked similar 08:46 @luxidream be aware: toggling autopickup is a change of game options 08:47 do not do this 08:47 just rebase dynahack on nh4 or fiqhack 08:47 IIRC I unmapped it in my dynahack 08:47 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in twelve variants" unlocked by spontiff! 08:47 to prevent myself from accidentally corrupting my own games 08:48 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Hum Fem Law), 1692 points, T:1255, quit 08:48 it usually works fine, but sometimes it messes everything up horribly 08:48 K2: don't you have incremental backups? 08:48 i do 08:49 goes back 7 days 08:49 couldn't you try to rollback luxidream's dynahack save directory 08:49 to a state where everything isn't corrupted 08:49 its been longer than a week 08:49 ah 08:49 perfect 08:49 besides, he plays so fast... not sure that would have helped 08:49 I assume you're aware that the corruption happened way after the games themselves, right? 08:50 yes 08:50 basically, he did something, or something happened later on 08:50 that corrupted *all* of his games 08:50 probably changed an option and then reloaded the game 08:50 something like that 08:50 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in two variants" unlocked by lapis! 08:51 can I take a look at one of his corrupted saves? 08:51 I want to try ais523 strat 08:51 i know it'd be a ton of work... but someone really should try to fix the fatal flaws in dynahack. its getting to a point where it probably shouldnt be used for tournament play 08:51 yes one sec 08:52 I wonder if one isn't better off trying to revert the 4.2 safeguards back to NitroHack mode, since the game engine is in stasis 08:53 and apparently the 4.2 safeguards introduce their own problems 08:54 FIQ sent you a pm with link 08:59 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in thirteen variants" unlocked by spontiff! 09:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 09:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 09:02 K2: what was your problem while you tried to recover it? 09:02 keep in mind that, since this game was saved normally, it has a 3.4.3-style save appended to the end 09:03 the one i tried to recover, the last 40k some odd lines was just junk 09:03 yeah, it isn't supposed to be junk 09:03 didnt follow any format that you'd normally see 09:03 it's just a normal NH3 save 09:03 appended at the end of the file 09:03 because it was a normal save, it didn't crash 09:03 but a normal dyna save never looks like that 09:03 at least not the ones i've had to recover from a crash 09:04 indeed 09:04 ah ok 09:04 not from a CRASH 09:04 try to create a normal game 09:04 yup i get it 09:04 save it 09:04 look at the save 09:04 it will look roughly the same 09:04 now, the NH3 data seems to indeed be corrupt, because I can't load it either 09:04 * K2 does his jedi mind trick thing 09:04 i get it 09:04 (so it isn't some unrelated issue) 09:05 so what one needs to do first 09:05 is to get rid of it 09:05 FIQ: I think it's reasonable to give everyone the "This book is hard" warning, if you compensate wiz in some way, e.g. by giving them a bonus so they can read a given spell level safely a couple of experience levels before other roles. 09:05 jonadab: wiz already gets a bonus I think 09:05 Oh, could be. 09:05 And actually, if they get better Pw regen than most roles, that may also be good enough. 09:06 (In vanilla they don't, until post-quest. But.) 09:06 urgh, I've never understood the weird performance problems Emacs have with extremly long lines 09:06 <@introsp3ctive> Morning everyone 09:06 you'd think an editor from the 80s wouldn't choke on something like that with today's CPU power 09:07 FIQ: How long are we talking? 09:07 <@introsp3ctive> FIQ I think the issue is that it isn't VIM xD 09:07 I've used Emacs on files with lines thousands of characters long, without trouble. 09:07 this is a binary file 09:07 so.. very long 09:07 Oh, hexl-find-file 09:07 ok, it's kinda binary 09:07 but kinda not 09:07 Ah. 09:08 so a hex editor is of no help 09:08 I see. 09:08 this is 4.2save (kinda?) 09:08 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:08 Oh. 09:08 Right. 09:08 so the end is a binary NH3-style save 09:08 Again, though, I've not had that problem. 09:08 Are the lines so long they don't fit in your RAM or something? 09:08 I think Emacs wants to keep all the lines currently shown on the screen, in RAM. 09:15 -!- JonathanHanes has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:16 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Kni Elf Mal Cha), 666 points, T:1542, killed by a giant mimic 09:23 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Gno Fem Law) killed Amon, on T:9 09:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7838 09:33 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 09:37 -!- wvc has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:38 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Gno Fem Law), 4167 points, T:1395, caught herself in her own blast 09:44 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 137 points, T:774, killed by a small mimic 09:48 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in fourteen variants" unlocked by spontiff! 09:48 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:52 K2: got it 09:53 you got it working? 09:53 yes 09:54 @luxidream ^^ 09:54 Oops 09:56 !tell ais523 I don't know what the difference between 4.2 and dynahack saves, but the "delete diffs the game doesn't like" strategy seems to work on DynaHack as well 09:56 Will do, FIQ! 09:57 K2: so what I did was 09:57 first, get rid of the binary save 09:58 adjust the size data at the top appropriately 09:58 backup the save 09:58 try to load it 09:58 fail, get a file position ("Error at file position: 50407" in this case) 09:58 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 1216 points, T:1749, killed by a rothe 09:58 restore to the backup (because this error makes the game do weird things wit hthe save) 09:58 go to file position 50407 09:59 delete the diff from there up until the next diff 09:59 adjust the size data *again* 09:59 yeah 09:59 backup the save 09:59 and load 09:59 repeat until the game eventually loads 09:59 <{Demo}2> lol 10:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00 <{Demo}2> how far back is he clocked? 10:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 10:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 10:00 (I removed several diffs at once when trying since I figured, if the game didn't like the offending diffs, the one shortly after might be problematic as well, and it made the game load) 10:00 {Demo}2: he remains where he was 10:00 <{Demo}2> wow 10:00 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:8265 10:00 basically, the reason I had to do this, instead of rollbacking 10:00 is because the game failed on like turn 200ish 10:01 diff-wise 10:01 <{Demo}2> weird 10:01 and rollbacking that far would just be dumb 10:01 <{Demo}2> any idea why names with spaces are broken? 10:01 so I tried ais523 strat used on 4.2 saves 10:01 I am fairly sure names with spaces work fine 10:01 I don't think that was the problem 10:01 <{Demo}2> oh 10:01 it did lead to issues when K2 was going to give me the save to mess with 10:02 but that was unrelated 10:02 <{Demo}2> any idea what happened around turn 200 that tripped things up? 10:02 (in the end he renamed it without spaces) 10:02 no idea 10:02 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Gno Fem Law), 7282 points, T:2586, killed by a death ray 10:02 <{Demo}2> !lastgame lapis 10:02 {Demo}2: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/l/lapis/notdnethack/dumplog/1560778743.ndnh.txt 10:03 <@lapis> is he supposed to spawn with that 10:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 25856 points, T:8724, petrified by a chickatrice 10:03 <@lapis> and i just forgot 10:03 <{Demo}2> so here's the problem 10:03 <{Demo}2> spirits are really high difficulty for your level range 10:03 geez 10:03 K2: should I do the same with the other games, or are you able to restore with the above info? 10:04 <{Demo}2> and therefore get a chance to spawn with an offensive wand 10:04 <{Demo}2> and it can be death 10:04 FIQ do I need to change the filename back to original? 10:04 <{Demo}2> which I think is kinda bs 10:04 I usually end up relearning how dynahack saves work all over again each time I do this... which is what takes the most time lol 10:04 K2: no you don't 10:04 yeah me too heh 10:04 oh good 10:04 i only ever have to recover dyna games during junethack it seems 10:04 <{Demo}2> I just want to watch luxi slam hella games on the last day again 10:05 <{Demo}2> that was fun to watch last year 10:05 try to restore using the above strategy by yourself, maybe you don't have to give me 10 games or whatever the amount is to do it :P 10:05 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in] 10:05 <{Demo}2> how bad would it be to write a script to do it? 10:05 yeah ;) 10:05 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 10:05 i will give it a go 10:06 {Demo}2: should be easy 10:06 for the kind of person who is savvy with quick simple scripts 10:06 it's not a technically complex task 10:06 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 10:07 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in fifteen variants" unlocked by spontiff! 10:07 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in five variants" unlocked by introsp3ctive! 10:07 FIQ: which part is the binary save 10:07 in a dynahack save 10:08 -!- stennowork has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:09 K2: you should be able to find the beginning by searching for "abcdefghijklmnop" 10:09 a few lines above that is a line that looks something like this: ~ f:$320$eNo1j71OAkEUhefusCx/Mou7REMj2thQAJWJJAw/CTQ2JlJhQYE2GEvtvC9hZ2dJw(...) 10:09 that is the last NH4-style line 10:10 remove everything past that line 10:10 (make sure the ~ f:(...) line contains the newline character) 10:11 K2: https://github.com/tung/DynaHack/blob/unnethack/doc/save-recovery.md 10:11 should help you deal with the binary data 10:12 yeah thats what i use 10:12 and thats what I did with one of luxi's saves 10:12 i just didnt know to keep going like you did 10:12 so technically i am half way thru fixing one of his other saves 10:12 neat 10:12 well basically, if, after you've done the instructions, the game still refuses to load with an error like I gave you 10:12 <@introsp3ctive> Will hardware stores buy things like luckstones/touchstones? 10:12 that's when you have to resort to removing diffs in the middle 10:12 instead of rollbacking 10:13 (and don't ever continue editing a save you've failed to load in-game -- it might have messed it up) 10:13 eh 10:13 then how the hell do you know if its working or not 10:13 They're not tools, so no 10:14 or where to edit again 10:14 <{Demo}2> make a copy 10:14 <{Demo}2> and load the copy 10:14 K2: It just means that the game might have made it worse. You should still be able to recover 10:14 <{Demo}2> after you make an edit 10:14 Obviously luxidream has tried (and failed) to load it 10:14 Basically 10:14 Edit the save 10:14 Then backup before you try to load it 10:14 And continue to edit the backup 10:14 i see 10:15 for example, when I failed to load the game at first, the game inserted options data in the middle of a save (an infamous 4.2 bug) 10:15 had I not backed it up, it would mean that I'd have even more data to get rid of 10:16 <{Demo}2> how are dyna saves different from 4.2 saves? 10:16 [hdf-us] [un] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha), 22580 points, T:6324, killed by a mumak 10:16 {Demo}2: I assumed they were the same until today 10:16 <{Demo}2> or does dyna use 4.2 saves instead of nitro saves? 10:16 ais523 claims they aren't 10:16 but I don't actually know the difference 10:16 yes, dyna uses 4.2-style saves 10:16 nitro saves are different 10:16 basically 10:17 <{Demo}2> is it tungtn's 4.2 implementation and maybe he botched it a bit so it's not quite the same? 10:17 nitrohack saves don't have a habit of corrupting things in the middle 10:17 and generally works much better 10:17 <{Demo}2> ah 10:17 but when they do fail 10:17 you can't recover nearly as well 10:17 because there is no diff data whatsoever 10:17 only commands 10:17 Also, under the NitroHack save system, basically any change you make to the code will break save compatibility. 10:17 so unless the commands align exactly right with the game engine 10:17 it will not load 10:17 <{Demo}2> oh jesus 10:17 <{Demo}2> that's ridiculous 10:18 gonna need luxidream 10:18 <{Demo}2> why the need to deviate from 3.x save system? 10:18 {Demo}2: not really, plenty of games can get away with it 10:18 Well, NitroHack is stable now, in the "does not change often" sense. 10:18 brogue uses the same system 10:18 {Demo}2: The 3.x save system is horrific. 10:18 but if you're the kind of person who does rolling updates 10:18 to the game engine 10:18 <{Demo}2> how horrific? 10:18 it becomes unusable 10:18 {Demo}2: it's basically a memory dump. 10:19 <{Demo}2> that's not horrific 10:19 <{Demo}2> that's epic 10:19 I mean, it's slightly more structured than that. 10:19 the fact that dynahack is in stasis 10:19 But. 10:19 no bug fixes and whatnot 10:19 save us FIQ 10:19 save dynahack 10:19 has made me consider removing the 4.2 safeguards, rolling back to the NitroHack save format 10:19 save Ferris 10:19 and see if it works better 10:19 but it means no more bug fixes without ruining everyone's saves 10:19 FIQ: If nobody's planning to make any other changes to Dyna at this point, that might actually make sense. 10:20 But yeah. 10:20 -!- stenno_ has quit [Changing host] 10:20 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 10:20 -!- stenno_ is now known as stennowork 10:20 and i can always run the fixed version in a different folder 10:20 just like any other variant update 10:20 Well true. 10:20 <{Demo}2> can you get rce through a nethack save? 10:20 once all saved played from old, load new 10:20 jonadab: I've tested nitrohack 10:20 [Demo]: Also, 3.x saves don't include replay information. At all. 10:21 I was only able to find a single problem with it, after major testing of short games, ascending games, etc, for a week or so 10:21 <{Demo}2> does it literally memcpy out of what it reads from the save file? 10:21 So they're not useful for bug reproduction really. 10:21 and it was a trivial fix 10:21 but apparently people had problems with the save format, it being unstable 10:21 And yes, that's another thing: 3.x saves are married to the hardware architecture, OS, and compiler. You can't take them with you when you upgrade. 10:21 I've failed to reproduce this 10:22 <{Demo}2> ah yeah OK that's fair 10:22 this is the major reason I'm reluctant to try making NitroHack ready for online play for historical purposes 10:22 Really, the 4.3 save format is _so close_ to being good. 10:22 because, *why* do people remember it as a horribly unstable format? 10:22 when I haven't been able to find any major issues with it 10:23 I'm wondering if it boils down to playstyle 10:23 and my way of play leads to little to no problems 10:24 rebase dynahack on fiqhack 10:24 while some other playstyles (pudding farming?) might have problems 10:24 <{Demo}2> that's how I've found some bugs to be 10:24 <{Demo}2> I can play ndnh just fine and it's pretty stable but when other people play it, not always as much 10:25 !tell @luxidream message me when you get this, concerning dynahack saves 10:25 Will do, K2! 10:25 a combination of NH4.3-style occasional dumps of gamestate 10:25 with NitrOhack save format 10:26 should work well I think 10:28 FIQ go for it 10:29 <{Demo}2> yikes, I need to specially handle u.uhost in save and restore code I think 10:30 [hdf-us] [evil] jonadab (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 156 points, T:878, killed by a sharpened bamboo stick 10:30 ^ one-shotted from max HP by a trap. 10:30 it do be like that 10:35 jonadab: if you encounter a spear trap early on, stop and search (if you're not already dead) 10:36 i made a random vault room called 'the spear room' 10:36 potentially 3-7 spear traps in that room 10:36 [hdf-us] [evil] jonadab (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 182 points, T:683, killed by a sharpened bamboo stick 10:36 K2: Yeah, just discovered that. 10:36 lol 10:36 That second death was that. 10:37 But the first one, it was just the one trap, one-shotted me from full health. 10:37 yeah they are nasty 10:37 <{Demo}2> I feel like that's half of evil deaths rn lol 10:37 I mean, I only had 14 max HP, because tourist. 10:38 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:39 spear trap does 10-19 hp damage i think 10:39 if i remember correctly 10:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] dracunos (Ran Elf Mal Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 cloak of magic resistance", on T:27364 10:39 ok brb need to do actual work 10:41 <{Demo}2> 10-20, that's fair 10:45 almost guaranteed to kill xl1 players 10:46 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in sixteen variants" unlocked by spontiff! 10:49 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:51 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:55 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 3220 points, T:3957, killed by a large cat called Aja 10:56 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 10:58 [hdf-us] [nh4] dinenil (hackedhead) (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 40542 points, T:6211, killed by an ettin mummy 10:59 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Dra Hum Fem Neu), 366 points, T:1279, exterminated by a giant bat 10:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Tou Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:28421 10:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:27087 11:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00 k2 i found your bones (and live steed) on one of your 'spear rooms' lol 11:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 11:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 11:00 \o/ 11:01 be nice to Farrah 11:01 well i was, Farrah was in sokoban lvl1 by the time i died :P 11:02 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Gno Fem Law) completed Lokoban, on T:4420 11:03 [hdf-us] [nh363] eraserhead97 (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 111584 points, T:28767, petrified by a cockatrice 11:06 <@lapis> demo, i don't suppose there's a guaranteed berith spawn item anywhere? 11:06 [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) destroyed the invisible Vlad the Impaler, on T:27315 11:07 [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:27317 11:09 [hdf-us] [nh343] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 962 points, T:854, killed by a goblin, while frozen by a monster's gaze 11:13 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 1310 points, T:1426, killed by a dwarf, while praying 11:16 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 317 points, T:481, killed by a coyote, while sleeping 11:18 wait is berith == behelith? 11:18 probably not.. 11:19 <@lapis> no, berith 11:19 <@lapis> i found what i needed by chance anyways 11:19 beherit is the Syriac word for "devil", commonly ascribed to the Syrian culture's concept of hell. 11:20 <{Demo}2> berith always spawns with his artifact crown 11:21 <{Demo}2> and like, a long sword 11:21 <{Demo}2> oh 11:21 <{Demo}2> yes 11:21 <{Demo}2> first tower of vlads 11:21 <{Demo}2> there's a long sword in one of the closets off of the room with cerberus 11:23 <@lapis> what's the hat do? i haven't been able to figure it out from the code yet 11:23 <@lapis> and since you're here, are all of these mastery artifacts actually working? 11:23 <@lapis> that i see in the cide 11:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] every (Cav Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "uncursed magic marker", on T:50036 11:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] every (Cav Dwa Fem Law) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:50037 11:30 [hdf-us] [nh363] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 911 points, T:1423, killed by a bolt of fire 11:31 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Gno Fem Law) entered the adventure town for the first time, on T:5819 11:32 i want to play ndnh on junethack but i don't want to #quit my current ndnh game 11:32 [hdf-us] [nh363] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:9109 11:33 [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:28183 11:35 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in four variants" unlocked by ttc1401! 11:35 [hdf-us] [4k] hothraxxa (Arc Hum Fem Neu) defeated the invisible Minion of Huhetotl, on T:24308 11:36 <{Demo}2> the mastery artifacts are not implemented. some are repurposed as non mastery artifacts. the crown of berith makes you immune to AT_TENT AD_DRIN 11:37 <{Demo}2> it's like an oilskin cloak but for your head 11:37 <{Demo}2> and instead of oil, it drips blood 11:38 [hdf-us] [un] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha), 550 points, T:1481, killed by a water demon 11:39 [hdf-us] [evil] jonadab (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 32 points, T:110, killed by a giant spider 11:41 [hdf-us] [evil] jonadab (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 74 points, T:130, zombified by a kobold zombie 11:45 <@lapis> so pretty safe to shrink down 11:46 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Dra Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4099 11:46 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Kni Elf Mal Cha), 407 points, T:1061, caught himself in his own fireball 11:46 ^ exploding forge 11:46 need to fix that death message 11:46 does anyone actually use I? 11:46 partial inventory menu that is 11:46 i dont 11:46 can I get away with mapping it to something else 11:48 I've never _heard_ of anyone using it, but I can just about guarantee there's one cranky player who will be annoyed if it's not there. 11:48 But IMO, _default_ bindings should be for new players, not cranky old players. 11:48 basically I am looking into refining NH4 auto-ID 11:48 Let the cranky old players change their keybindings. 11:48 and as part of that, I want to let players be able to see what an item can possibly be 11:48 among several possibilities 11:48 Oh, nice idea. 11:48 given what the player knows about it so far 11:49 That definitely seems worth it. 11:49 So you want an Identify keybinding, right. 11:49 so I was thinking of using I for that 11:49 <@lapis> god damn 11:49 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Gno Fem Law), 49315 points, T:7109, killed by Buer 11:49 Yeah, don't make the I command not exist, just change the default keybinding. Seems good. 11:52 [hdf-us] [evil] jonadab (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 320 points, T:1229, killed by an iguana 11:54 Junethack: Achievement "Globetrotter: get a trophy in two variants" unlocked by lapis! 11:58 <{Demo}2> I think artifacts are always safe to get an armorsmith to shrink 11:59 <@lapis> but a good one to do early, i mean 11:59 <@lapis> do eden's scales let you mail/shield them? 12:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 12:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 12:01 <{Demo}2> yep 12:01 <@luxidream> K2 I’m here now 12:01 @luxidream: Message from K2 at 2019-06-17 10:25 EDT: message me when you get this, concerning dynahack saves 12:01 <@lapis> nice 12:02 <@luxidream> still reading through backscroll 12:02 hey 12:02 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 12:02 lemme know when ready 12:02 <{Demo}2> also I found a good early acu strat, try to get excal 12:02 <@luxidream> OK I’m on my phone give me a bit 12:04 <@luxidream> alright which file K2 12:04 <@lapis> ohh, yeah, that's a good thing to use that berith sword on 12:04 you should see a luxi01 and 02 12:04 <@lapis> i got too focused on using the quarterstaff and ignored that 12:04 load up 01 12:04 <@lapis> tips for buer? just don't let her get near you at all? 12:05 <@luxidream> uh oh 12:05 wut 12:05 <@luxidream> so it loaded up fine at first 12:05 <@luxidream> then I attempted to load it again 12:05 why again? 12:05 <@luxidream> because I saved and wanted to get back in 12:05 luxidream if you get these games to load, finish them 12:06 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) killed the ghost of HaryHyhax, the former Skirmisher, on T:4649 12:06 <@luxidream> and now it's wrecked again 12:06 <@luxidream> I'm so stupid 12:06 one sec 12:06 <@luxidream> do you have a backup? 12:07 yeah 12:07 exit out of dynahack restart 12:07 load up luxi01 12:08 [hdf-us] [dyn] No alibi, no justice, (Luxidream) (Pri Hum Mal Cha), 114100 points, T:45322, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2012_08_07%2C%20No%20alibi%2C%20no%20justice%2C-Pri-Hum-Mal-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 12:08 \o/ 12:08 <@luxidream> you reached the zeroth place on the score list 12:08 <@luxidream> ?? 12:08 ok now for luxi02 its going to error. i need to know the position number it gives you 12:09 @luxidream hah. i wouldnt worry about that, all that matetrs is the asc 12:09 metters 12:09 <@luxidream> that's "imbad at this game plz kill me" right? 12:09 sure 12:09 <@luxidream> uh, it loaded? 12:09 oh really 12:09 go for it 12:09 <@luxidream> I'm an arc on turn 428 12:09 rofl 12:09 <@lapis> someone must be missing their arc game 12:10 <@luxidream> this is an old file, not junethack 12:10 ok give me the list again of which games were corrupt 12:10 and do you want to save luxi02 12:11 <@luxidream> I can delete it myself 12:11 k 12:11 <@luxidream> https://pastebin.com/m1XLPBDp 12:11 <@luxidream> ^game aliases I actually care about 12:11 ok so 1 down 8 to go 12:11 gonna go get food, after I eat we'll tackle this 12:11 <@luxidream> woot 12:11 <@luxidream> 😄 12:12 <@luxidream> let me keep reading and see what the breakthrough was 12:13 Junethack: Achievement "Diversity Ascender: Ascended five variants" unlocked by luxidream! 12:13 Junethack: luxidream ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 12:14  12:14 lol 12:14 GG 12:15 msg k2 our secret plan to keep the multi-ascension-in-one-day trophy away from luxidream seems to be working. just fix one a day ok? 12:15 dammit 12:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Nob Dro Mal Neu), 720 points, T:1485, killed by a gnome lord 12:19 <@luxidream> lol 12:20 <@riker> ??? 2 artifacts on dlvl 1 but neither are useful as weapons 12:21 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) killed the ghost of arnibald, the former Jail-bird, on T:6209 12:21 <@riker> i don't even have boomerang skill for windrider 12:21 <@lapis> what was the other one? 12:21 <@riker> helping hand 12:21 <@riker> so quite useful 12:21 <@lapis> i had windrider show up in the great binder game i lost but.... why use it 12:21 <@riker> just... not early game 12:21 <@lapis> oh helping hand is nice yeah 12:22 <@riker> I'm impressed helping hand didn't blast me I probably would've died 12:22 <@riker> and I guess I can get basic in flail but... I'm not using helping hand as a weapon >.> 12:24 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 12:25 <@riker> also seriously: invoking to untrap not only can't untrap normally untrappable things (polymorph, pit) it can fail too? nice 12:25 <@riker> I feel like that defeats the point of having to use an invoke to untrap when.. there's always #untrap 12:27 <@riker> !pig 12:27 <@riker> !ping 12:27 @riker: Pong! 12:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Nhd-Nob Dro Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1764 12:29 <@riker> huh, I did not know priests of Ghaunadaur are actually, well, priests of ghaun 12:29 <@riker> @d?priest of ghaunadaur 12:29 priest of Ghaunadaur (b) | Lvl: 20 | Diff: 26 | Spd: 15 | Res: cold shock poison acid petrification | Confers: cold shock poison | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 10 | Attacks: 1d12 touch acid, 1d12 touch sticky, 2d12 hug suck-equipment, 0d8 cast clerical, 2d12 passive acid | Alignment: -5 | Flags: omnivore, amorphous, breathless, mindless, vegan 12:29 <@riker> yea no thanks I'm not touching a clerical shoggoth 12:29 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) killed the ghost of Andrio, the former Ninja, on T:6858 12:32 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 12:33 <@riker> hey @lapis fun fact windrider is actually pretty okay as a melee weapon (not literally but for ~2 square range it's pretty good) 12:33 <@riker> I don't even have skill and it's somewhat useful 12:36 <@lapis> Huh 12:36 <@riker> yea 12:36 <@riker> afaict it's blunt though 12:36 <@riker> so it's 100% useless vs any zombie 12:36 <@lapis> Demo, is there a particular reason incs aren’t allowed to be acus? 12:36 <@riker> yea 12:36 <@riker> it was OP 12:36 <@lapis> Not like you usually need to worry about zombies 12:36 <@lapis> Oh 12:36 <@riker> well I mean I really do 12:37 <@riker> I'm drow so those dwarf zombies with dwarven short swords? oof 12:37 <@lapis> Was it op because of the energy pool or? 12:37 <@lapis> Ahh 12:37 <@riker> no I think the spells made them really ez 12:37 <@riker> for example: literally everybody up to berith was quick af to kill just spam force bolt at them 12:37 <@riker> since they mostly have melee attacks and you can just run faster 12:38 <@lapis> I mean, if you find force bolt you can just do that anyways 12:38 <@lapis> And eventually just f them 12:38 <{Demo}2> I don't think ceremorphosis would work on an incantifier 12:38 <@riker> wow another boomerang 12:38 <{Demo}2> that's why 12:38 <@riker> why wouldn't it? 12:38 <{Demo}2> cause it made no sense 12:38 <{Demo}2> cause they are made of magic 12:38 <@riker> also somebody saw the baldur's gate trailer 12:39 <@riker> demo: you do realize they were human originally right 12:39 <{Demo}2> yeah but they are too not human 12:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Nob Dro Mal Neu), 7563 points, T:5210, killed by a tengu 12:43 <@riker> since when do tengu spawn with katans 12:44 <@riker> that's a mean change 12:48 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Dra Hum Fem Neu), 12044 points, T:9287, murdered by a brown mold warrior 12:49 <@Tone> FIQ: Could the item ID thing be done through the discoveries list by making it a menu? 12:51 <{Demo}2> riker I think that's rare 12:51 <{Demo}2> better than if he was slamming you with sol valtiva 12:52 <{Demo}2> like they used t 12:54 <@luxidream> why does surtur's sword generate randomly lol 12:55 ok back 12:55 nomnomnom 12:55 @riker That definitely fits the lore. 12:56 [hdf-us] [nh363] every (Cav Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased bag of holding", on T:50169 12:57 <{Demo}2> it doesn't anymore 12:57 <{Demo}2> apparently was a bug 13:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 13:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 13:00 I mean, it could be worse. It could be kobolds generating with darts of disintegration. <-- EPI 13:01 @luxidream you available? 13:01 <@luxidream> absolutely 13:01 evilhack doens't have a hall of fame bug yet smh my head 13:01 <@luxidream> stenno: it did 13:01 <{Demo}2> I would argue tengus with sol valtiva favored the player 13:01 please fire up dynahack and load luxi01 13:01 <@luxidream> used to have no vibrating square 13:01 Junethack: New user Switter registered! https://junethack.net/user/Switter 13:02 lol 13:02 on load, any posotional error, please give me that number and then exit 13:02 *positional 13:02 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Dra Hum Fem Neu), 414 points, T:1011, defeated by a coyote 13:02 <@luxidream> 36888 13:02 ok exit dynahack please 13:02 <@luxidream> done 13:04 ok fire it back up, this time load luxi01a 13:04 lets see what we get 13:04 <@luxidream> same error same line? 13:04 gdammit 13:05 ok one sec 13:05 exit dyna pls 13:05 oh i forgot a step... ok i got this 13:06 <@DracBox> That's nice of you k2 13:06 What's the worst that can happen? 13:07 @luxidream ok this time fire up dyna, load luxi01b 13:08 @DracBox :) 13:08 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:08 crap same place 13:10 i might have to send these to FIQ 13:10 i must be doing something wrong 13:10 FIQ if you can fix luxidream's 8 other parked dynahack games, i'll give you 5 bucks 13:11 <@luxidream> lol, let me know 13:11 oof 13:12 <@luxidream> recovering one is a moral victory though 13:12 <@luxidream> take that dynahack! 13:12 if only the dev didn't get shafted by the devteam and kept his motivation 13:13 <@luxidream> what's the story behind tungtn? 13:15 well i don't want to speak in his place when he's around ^_^" 13:15 Hmm, he _did_ stop development shortly after the leak. Hadn't thought about that before. 13:16 Maybe he was gearing up for release and the leak accidentally stole his thunder. We'll go with that. 13:16 well basically he fixed a lot of obscure bugs, made some feature requests/balance changes, but the devteam ignored him and actually did the opposite 13:16 Oh, that stuff. 13:16 dunno if that was actually the cause 13:16 but i'd like to think it is 13:17 That stuff happened to several variant devs, though, some of whom are still active. 13:17 he fixed some insane 3.4.3 bugs 13:17 i would've liked to see him on the devteam tbh.. 13:17 but thats too late now i guess 13:17 Ah. 13:17 never say never 13:17 david lee roth got back with van halen 13:18 it coudl happen 13:18 I still think they should try to get FIQ on the dev team. I mean, I'd _rather_ see him resume work on FIQHack's xhity merge, but. 13:18 wut 13:18 oh xhity 13:18 xhity, as in, mhitu, uhitm, mhitm, bhitm, etc. 13:18 oh yeah 13:19 or at least uhitu 13:19 yep 13:19 He was working on making all that one codepath. 13:19 Instead of having each of them cover the various cases in a _different order_. 13:19 refactoring that mess would've been a good idea 13:20 He had it at least half done. 13:20 But got bogged down. 13:20 how is it implemented in variants like grunt where monsters just can do a lot of stuff? 13:20 is there a lot of replicated code or also some refactoring? 13:20 Same as in 3.4.3, just with more special cases added. 13:20 And yes, tons of code duplication. 13:20 gotcha 13:24 ok @luxidream 13:24 I asked FIQ to fix the remaining 8 13:24 we'll see 13:24 [hdf-us] [nh363] every (Cav Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:50966 13:25 <@luxidream> I saw, how long did it take him to fix the first one? 13:25 not too long, maybe 30 min or so 13:25 but multiply that by 8 13:26 and hopefully the remaining go more quickly, he had to relearn a lil bit 13:26 just as i did recovering dyan crash for introsp3ctive 13:26 dyna 13:26 omg i cant type for shit today 13:28 <@luxidream> alright...let me know then. might have to go somewhere soon 13:28 k 13:29 * K2 secretly replaces luxidreams name in each save to his own 13:29 K2 got 8 dyna asc in a row?? waaaaa? 13:30 and then i could say my bot did it 13:30 oh crap why is my phone updating itself now? 13:30 bad phone, bad! 13:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Ana Dro Fem Cha), 2281 points, T:1078, killed by a gnome, while frozen by a potion 13:33 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Pir Inf Nbn Cha), 282 points, T:1573, exterminated by a gnome lord 13:35 <@riker> jonadab: oh absolutely it fits, and chris made sure to make some of the japanese stuff slightly more accurate (see: naginata for fem samurai) I'm just salty 13:35 * K2 tries to motivate himself to add more to the evilhack wiki page 13:35 * K2 fails miserably and fires up a game 13:39 <@riker> !tell Chris_ANG "the medium Garnet Rod. " hm is it supposed to appear like that >.> (random mines tool ftw) 13:39 No worries, @riker, I've got this! 13:45 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Pir Inf Nbn Cha), 305 points, T:1252, done in by a giant mimic 14:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 14:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 14:02 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:03 -!- UsagiMero has joined #hardfought 14:04 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Kni Elf Mal Cha) had a spear entrusted to him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:2408 14:04 [hdf-us] [nh343] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had long sword named Giantslayer bestowed upon him by Brigit, on T:2183 14:06 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 467 points, T:663, killed by a copper arrow 14:09 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Dra Dro Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "El", on T:3383 14:21 [hdf-us] [nh343] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) retrieved the Mine's End luckstone, on T:3167 14:22 [hdf-us] [nh363] every (Cav Dwa Fem Law) bribed Asmodeus with 281 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:52542 14:22 <@riker> "the death ray hits the sergeant" well then why aint he dead 14:22 <@riker> riddle me that game 14:23 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 313 points, T:1341, killed by a giant bat 14:26 [hdf-us] [nh4] raineth (hackedhead) (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 37983 points, T:5833, killed by a dingo 14:29 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:30 @riker maybe he picked up comr from somewhere 14:30 <@riker> nope I checked 14:30 <@riker> I wish though 14:30 <@riker> I could use that 14:31 <@riker> there's only one leather cloak here in his stack 14:33 @riker which variant are you playing? 14:33 <@riker> dnethack 14:33 <@riker> but that shouldn't change much 14:34 <@riker> I'm not particularly worried though 14:34 [hdf-us] [nh343] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had long sword named Frost Brand bestowed upon him by Brigit, on T:3979 14:34 hehe 14:34 <@riker> I just want mr/reflection/drain res/a bag/ honestly anything >_< 14:34 <@riker> and I'm toting around 2 wishes but I want to hit the quest home first 14:40 [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:31079 14:45 [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) genocided master mind flayer, on T:31129 14:45 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 14:47 [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:31134 14:48 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Dra Dro Fem Neu), 8382 points, T:7566, sent to the grave by a werewolf 14:48 [hdf-us] [nh4] dinenil (hackedhead) (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 18873 points, T:427, killed by a gnome lord 14:48 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:50 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 14:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 14:57 http://home.fiq.se/partial_id.png 14:59 K2: I'll look into it 14:59 [hdf-us] [nh4] Raineth (hackedhead) (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 23700 points, T:974, killed by a dwarf 14:59 [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:31353 15:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 15:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 15:01 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:05 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 15:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 15:08 [hdf-us] [nh4] Raineth (hackedhead) (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 29095 points, T:1640, killed by a giant bat 15:15 @luxidream is there games you've played without any saving inbetween? 15:15 as in 15:15 a game you played from start to asc 15:15 without saving ever 15:15 except when parking 15:16 I can't use ais523 strat if you never saved in it 15:17 because the diffs are 100% neccessary in that case 15:19 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 15:20 <@luxidream> I don't think so 15:30 <@luxidream> !ping 15:30 @luxidream: Pong! 15:30 [hdf-us] [spl] Lachtain (Bar Mer Fem Neu), 357 points, T:2031, killed by an arrow 15:30 Junethack: New user Bifph registered! https://junethack.net/user/Bifph 15:34 ok I got it working 15:34 one of the games 15:35 I basically removed 90% of the file because the game kept refusing to load, ended up hunting down the very last time @luxidream saved 15:35 and removed mostly everything else 15:36 <@IceBox> you're a hero, fiq 15:38 <@luxidream> indeed 15:40 @luxidream 15:40 if you have a minute, fire up dynahack and load luxi01 15:40 <@luxidream> got it 15:40 [hdf-us] [dyn] *desk slam* (Luxidream) (Sam Hum Fem Law), 165300 points, T:54091, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2015_40_37%2C%20%2Adesk%20slam%2A-Sam-Hum-Fem-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 15:41 <@luxidream> done 15:41 <@luxidream> 👍 15:41 2 down 15:45 <@luxidream> be back in a couple hours 15:45 <@luxidream> thanks for all the work FIQ 15:48 -!- JuneSurfer has joined #hardfought 15:49 Junethack: luxidream ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 15:53 [hdf-us] [evil] StatueSurfer (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 0 points, T:38, killed by a giant spider 15:54 [hdf-us] [nh4] Raineth (hackedhead) (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 28987 points, T:1367, killed by a magic missile 16:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00 !lastgame statuesurfer 16:00 NHrsa: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/S/StatueSurfer/evilhack/dumplog/1560801151.evil.txt 16:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 16:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 16:05 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 shield of reflection", on T:21049 16:18 [hdf-us] [un] bouquet (Wiz Vam Fem Cha), 13372 points, T:9583, killed by a watch captain, while fainted from lack of food 16:18 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) killed Inuvik on T:21331 16:24 -!- JuneSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:28 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) killed Izchak on T:21702 16:29 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) killed Rellenk on T:21793 16:30 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) killed Parbalingga on T:21837 16:34 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) killed Kipawa on T:22079 16:38 02 and 03 restored 16:39 [hdf-us] [nh363] cadaver (Sam Hum Mal Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:3594 16:42 [hdf-us] [nh343] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:7389 16:44 !tell ais523 for whatever reason, @luxidream had severe corruption in his dynahack saves. This is how I solved them consistently: Open the save up. Remove the NH3-style save. Fix save size numbers. Backup the save. Load it, and if it failed to load, check file position where it failed. Remove the diff, all the way up to the biggest diff in the save (which is the last point @luxidream saved). Fix save 16:44 I'm on it, FIQ. 16:44 sizes (again). Load it. It works 16:45 !tell ais523 sizes (again). Load it. It works 16:45 No worries, FIQ, I've got this! 16:47 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:53 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha) killed Avesta on T:23136 16:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Ana Hlf Mal Neu), 125001 points, T:16627, killed by a dire sheep 16:58 Junethack: Achievement "Anti-Stoner: defeated Medusa in one variant" unlocked by Sorcratal! 16:58 Junethack: Achievement "Diversity Ascender: Ascended one variant" unlocked by Sorcratal! 16:58 Junethack: Sorcratal ascended a game of NetHack 3.6.2 on nethack.alt.org! 17:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 17:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 17:05 3 luxidream files left to recover 17:15 [hdf-us] [4k] hothraxxa (Arc Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed historic greased fixed very thoroughly extinguished +5 helm of brilliance named prop. of dr. sivana", on T:25784 17:16 muahahahahaha! 17:21 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 17:21 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 17:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] Arimja (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at them by some watery tart, on T:4451 17:27 [hdf-us] [un] introsp3ctive (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 59012 points, T:27088, killed by a black unicorn 17:29 -!- spontiff has quit [] 17:30 K2: I have now restored all saves 17:33 <@luxidream> 😮 😮 17:36 first save took several hours, last save took 2 minutes... yay for having to relearn the dynahack save system each time 17:36 once a year 17:37 Heh. 17:37 Make notes. 17:37 For next year. 17:37 notes? what's that? 17:37 Junethack: Achievement "Globetrotter: get a trophy in three variants" unlocked by introsp3ctive! 17:37 It's how you take something from your short term memory and preserve it, without having to keep it in long-term memory. 17:39 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Notetaking 17:50 http://home.fiq.se/restoring_saves.txt look at my fancy documentation 17:51 [hdf-us] [nh363] introsp3ctive (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 750 points, T:1652, killed by a giant bat 17:54 [hdf-us] [nh363] introsp3ctive (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 80 points, T:254, killed by a boulder 17:54 -!- raisse has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:54 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 17:58 [hdf-us] [spl] Delraven (Mon Hum Nbn Cha) had Serpent's Tongue bestowed upon them by Huan Ti, on T:7953 17:58 hmm 18:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 18:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 18:01 !who 18:01 PavelB: [hdf-us] introsp3ctive [nh363] cadaver [nh363] Arimja [nh363] Tarmunora [dnh] hothraxxa [4k] | [hdf-eu] oh6 [nh343] | [hdf-au] No current players 18:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3177 18:02 <@Pavel> oh cool rld update 18:02 <@luxidream> Nice avatar 18:02 <@Pavel> why does only FIQ get a profile pic on this end though :think: 18:03 <@FIQ> because I have a discord account as well 18:04 <@Pavel> ok but so do I 18:04 and look no pfp 18:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +5 ogresmasher", on T:3597 18:05 http://home.fiq.se/partial_id.png now to make it actually keep track of things 18:05 . 18:05 so it can eliminate things it knows that it isn't 18:05 <@PavelB> oh cool figured it out 18:08 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 18:08 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 18:09 ais523: I wanted to make the game keep track of possible descriptions of an item, something like this: http://home.fiq.se/partial_id.png 18:09 I also want to make the game handle elimination of possibilities automatically so that it goes on and ID it for you if it can only be one thing 18:10 Was thinking on doing this upon update_inventory() 18:10 I think that sort of thing would have to be an option, given that it's a pretty large "built-in spoilier" that some players might not want, I can see the utility for experienced players though 18:10 ais523: Messages from FIQ have been forwarded to you privately. 18:11 (the alternative would be to go the other way, and have the list of items that exist in the game randomized with each playthrough; that's something I've thought about but not seriously) 18:11 ais523: it's basically an extension of what already happens in NH4 18:11 such as engraving with wands and dropping stuff into sinks 18:11 shouldn't that be possible to turn off because spoilers too then?= 18:11 -= 18:12 YANI: multiple randomized descriptions can correspond to the same item type (e.g. wands of sleep might be both pine and maple), so that you can't determine item classes by elimination 18:12 the current NH4 auto-IDs are based on "this message indicates only one possibility for the item, even in the abstract" 18:12 whereas your suggestion is more inherently tied to the way that NetHack item randomization actually works 18:13 basically what I wanted to do was 18:13 if you already know teleportation and cancellation 18:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Neu) was given Tensa Zangetsu, on T:4339 18:13 I guess it sort of breaks the immersion for me a bit? like, you're relying on the fact that only three sorts of wands vanish engravings 18:13 making an engraving vanish with invis will ID it for you automatically 18:13 so once you've found two of them, a third sort of wand that vanishes engravings, you know what it is 18:13 but that's already the case 18:14 but what basis does the character have for knowing that there are only three sorts of wands like that in the world? 18:14 an UI enhancer can tell you what it is 18:14 yes, I know it's already the case 18:14 I'm just saying that this is a case in which you've highlighted a problem (manual ID-by-elimination can get tedious) but I'm not sure that applying the interhack principle to it is the correct solution 18:14 I see 18:15 I think I'm going to go ahead with this anyway, possibly behind an autoid option 18:15 and if players dislike it, eh 18:15 ais523: FIQHack actually has a single case of this already 18:15 there is a fallback message, "You hear the ring bouncing down the drain" 18:16 if you aren't blind, there is only 1 ring which this happens for 18:16 rings of hunger 18:16 FIQHack abuses this and auto-IDs it for you 18:16 because, technically speaking, there is only one possibility 18:16 the other possibility is that someone added a new ring type to the game 18:16 but we know that doesn't happen because computers aren't particularly creative 18:16 even if it's intended to group several rings without other descriptions for dropping them in sinks 18:17 in a real magical dungeon, though, I don't think you could know the full set of possibilities in advance 18:17 slex makes some items never generatee 18:17 -e 18:17 is that what you are considering? 18:17 I like the general idea but I think the specific implementation is awkward 18:18 one obvious thing to do would be to shuffle around item types, e.g. maybe the amulet of life saving is actually a type of cloak this game 18:18 you could have a set of items, "always appears in the game" and some which may not always appear 18:18 another is to duplicate items, either exactly or very similarly 18:18 which might be above-average in usefulness, or useless/harmful 18:18 so you have multiple appearances with effectively the same effect 18:18 hmm 18:19 because NH4 has a robust trinsic system now, we could easily generate items based on random trinsics 18:19 FIQHack, DynaHack and GruntHack has object properties 18:19 this could be piggybacked on for it 18:19 I suppose 18:19 so yes, object properties is a big step in that direction 18:19 maybe some effects would only be obtainable as properties 18:19 although I don't want to go too far down the direction of DCSS randarts 18:20 in particular, I think you should probably be able to wish for arbitrary items even if they didn't exist in the game? 18:20 (which is probably equivalent for wishing for object properties, and thus would need to be gated in much the same way) 18:20 FIQHack currently has wishing for object properties locked behind wizmode 18:20 I think you'd probably only allow one property to be stated, so if you want a property you have to leave the base type unclear 18:21 it was briefly available for wishing (in restricted form with rules somewhat similar to DynaHack), but in the end I figured that not allowing it to be wished for gave more variety in games 18:21 or just get rid of base types altogether, I guess is the long-term solution 18:21 instead of speed boots and jumping boots, have boots, with a jumping or speed enchantment 18:21 so basically you're thinking of something like this 18:21 have a set of item appearances 18:21 but their actual effects can be random, but set for each game? 18:22 and "random" here isn't just a set list of effects that always appear 18:22 I'd go further, I think: have a set of item appearances, each game you choose some of them and make them into fixed items by combining properties, the others are used for "special" items like random with-property items and wished-for items that didn't previously existi n the game 18:24 so let's see if I understand you correctly 18:24 let's say we have, in objects.c, 10 "special" appearances for boots 18:24 and if the game happens to decide "hey let's generate some special boots" 18:25 it uses one, right 18:25 it will use one of them, decide on one property, or (rarely) more than one 18:25 I guess we could even randomize which appearances are special or regular with each game 18:25 and for the future it always uses that appearance for that kind of boots 18:25 right 18:25 and it leaves, say, 3 appearances reserved 18:25 for wishes and quest artifacts 18:25 DCSS uses this system except that the special and regular pools are separate, so that people know that an item is really worth IDing if they see something that's in the special pool 18:26 but it tends to spam special items too much and most of them are worthless 18:26 [hdf-us] [nh363] introsp3ctive (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 3 crude daggers on an altar, on T:3458 18:27 so that the players are able to wish for special but non-arti items up to a point 18:27 (more lenient than proper artiwishing, but not unlimited) 18:27 oh, but then the game runs out of descriptions? 18:27 part that, but part "don't let players wish for an entire ascension kit" 18:28 let them have to find at least some parts of their gear in the dungeon 18:28 -!- tonehack has joined #hardfought 18:28 that was the entire point of me adding object properties and making it impossible to wish for it 18:28 alongside partial resistances 18:29 players get some leeway in things they really want 18:29 but have to also rely on what they find 18:30 hmm… perhaps you can wish for a trinsic but have no control over what item it comes on 18:30 so you wish for e.g. "flight" and end up with boots of flight and fumbling, or whatever 18:30 sounds like the "reverse" of dcss acquirement 18:31 you get some leeway in what kind of gear you want, but it can be useful or useless 18:31 most of the time it'd probably be on a positive item, but it'd be hard to build an asc kit like that 18:31 it ends up similar here 18:31 because there'd be a lot of slot competition 18:31 not sure if I like it 18:31 hmm 18:31 perhaps 18:31 maybe you wish for items of MR and reflection but discover they're both shields 18:31 <@Tone> That "possible identities" data looks awesome FIQ 18:31 I guess you'd want to weight the trinsics towards slots where they made the most sense, but not absolutely 18:32 [hdf-us] [evil] Noah (Wiz Hob Fem Neu), 868 points, T:1853, killed by a water moccasin, while fainted from lack of food 18:32 so we're doing dcss acquirement now? :P 18:32 it tries to bias in your favour but is a total crapshoot 18:32 and relies on obscure parameters that isn't explained 18:33 (for example, don't skill up in shields if you want to acquire 2-handed weapons) 18:33 FIQ: no, not in favour of the character 18:33 in favour of making flavour sense 18:33 ah 18:34 yeah that's better 18:34 boots of speed make more sense than hats of speed, for example 18:34 so speed is biased towards boots 18:34 yeah 18:34 powerful or oddball trinsics normally go on amulets 18:34 reflection towards shields and body armor rather than shirts 18:34 magic resistance towards amulets or rings 18:36 rings tend to handle passive effects like resistances 18:36 but typically the weaker or more niche resistances 18:36 Junethack: Achievement "Sightseeing Tour: finish a game in seven variants" unlocked by Noah! 18:37 I suppose if this was created, the easiest way to do things would be to make a probability table on a per-property basis 18:37 hi 18:37 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 18:38 ais523: look at my fancy documentation creation skills: http://home.fiq.se/restoring_saves.txt 18:38 this is nitrosave/dynasave/4.2save, right? 18:39 dynasave yes 18:39 nitrosave is... different 18:39 * K2 bookmarks fancy documentation 18:39 more stable but impossible to recover 18:39 ah right 18:39 it generally doesn't break down on the slighest problem like dynasave/4.2save does 18:39 but when it does break down... rip save 18:40 -!- Pinkbeas1 has joined #hardfought 18:41 @luxidream you can fire up dynahack and finish games luxi02 through 08 18:42 ais523: btw, "- The game can mess up and make the file worse by failing to load it, so back it up each time before load!" 18:42 this part is where the options corruption originates 18:42 if the game fails to load a diff somewhere in the middle of a file 18:42 it has a habit of inserting options data there 18:42 so that's where the bug comes from it seems 18:42 aha! 18:42 nice to know what causes that 18:43 I bet what happens is that NitroHack doesn't really pay attention to the file pointer location at all after a failed load 18:43 p sure the error is on dyna/4.2 18:43 because nitro will simply refuse to load it if the RNG check fails 18:44 and not even try 18:44 but it might be dormant there 18:46 right; I think many of the bugs in NH4 are not directly a consequence of NitroHack bugs, but rather me coming to the incorrect conclusions about what it does (because it's often pretty insane) 18:46 Heh 18:47 I think the save format is one of the more robust NitroHack changes, because it actually works.. usually 18:47 Which is saying something about NitroHack in general... 18:47 !tell @luxidream you can fire up dynahack and finish games luxi02 through 08 18:47 I'm on it, K2. 18:47 <@luxidream> I’m home will get on in a sec 18:47 @luxidream: Message from K2 at 2019-06-17 18:47 EDT: you can fire up dynahack and finish games luxi02 through 08 18:48 :) 18:48 (The design itself is insane with the way NetHack variants are usually developed, but plenty of games can get away with it if they don't update ever) 18:48 I think brogue uses a similar save system 18:49 yes 18:49 brogue's is more stable on a given platform 18:49 -!- JarlEarl has joined #hardfought 18:49 NitroHack's main issue is the complete lack of failsafes 18:49 it has had failures in the past related to float operations being interpreted differently on different CPU/OS/compiler/compiler-version/compiler-flags combinations 18:49 [hdf-us] [dyn] OBJECTION! (Luxidream) (Kni Hum Fem Law), 176300 points, T:39888, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2018_49_55%2C%20OBJECTION%21-Kni-Hum-Fem-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 18:50 When it works, it works fine. When it doesn't, players are not going to be happy with lost saves 18:50 I think Pender went and removed all the floating-point from Brogue as a result? 18:50 [hdf-us] [dyn] TAKE THAT! (Luxidream) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 163754 points, T:41305, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2018_50_10%2C%20TAKE%20THAT%21-Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu%2C%20ascended.txt 18:50 [hdf-us] [dyn] My client, OOTC (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Fem Cha), 129960 points, T:43633, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2018_50_19%2C%20My%20client%2C%20OOTC-Ran-Orc-Fem-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 18:50 [hdf-us] [dyn] is innocent! (Luxidream) (Rog Hum Fem Law), 129680 points, T:32490, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2018_50_34%2C%20is%20innocent%21-Rog-Hum-Fem-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 18:50 I think a NitroHack that did periodic binary save dumps (similar to NH4.3) could've worked well enough 18:50 [hdf-us] [dyn] no dreams, no hope! (Luxidream) (Bar Vam Mal Cha), 122626 points, T:37142, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2018_50_46%2C%20no%20dreams%2C%20no%20hope%21-Bar-Vam-Mal-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 18:51 [hdf-us] [dyn] HOLD IT! (Luxidream) (Val Hum Fem Neu), 163480 points, T:40531, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2018_51_00%2C%20HOLD%20IT%21-Val-Hum-Fem-Neu%2C%20ascended.txt 18:51 [hdf-us] [dyn] It's time to pay (Luxidream) (Con Hum Fem Law), 124456 points, T:51036, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dynahack/dumplog/2019-06-17%2018_51_08%2C%20It%27s%20time%20to%20pay-Con-Hum-Fem-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 18:51 (NH4 avoids floating-point in anything potentially game-affecting for similar reasons, e.g. the scoring code is written using fixedpoint to make sure that no platform has an advantage in terms of scoring) 18:51 release the kraken 18:51 <@luxidream> OK, that's all of them, now time to never touch dyna ever again 18:51 hahah 18:51 <@luxidream> thanks K2 and FIQ for making it through this nightmare 18:52 glad to help 18:52 sorry it took as long as it did 18:52 <@luxidream> at least it was figured out at all, haha 18:52 I wonder how hard it would be to port dynahack's gameplay to fiqhack's game engine 18:52 <@luxidream> maybe dyna can stay on the server after all 18:53 FIQ... dont tease 18:53 the main reason I'm reluctant to is the fact that FIQHack has a completely rewritten game AI 18:53 rebase dynahack onto fiqhack 18:53 so I'm not really sure if it's dynahack anymore at that point 18:53 do - it 18:53 at the very least rebase onto nh4 18:54 yes, using NH4 as base would avoid dealing with fiqhack's own gameplay changes 18:54 -!- JuneSurfer has joined #hardfought 18:54 but then I don't get things for free like object properties 18:54 <@luxidream> so monsters using most items is part of the AI rewrite and not easily rolled back? 18:54 it can be rolled back gameplay-wise I suppose 18:54 it'd still use the rewritten AI 18:54 but I could change the behaviour 18:55 to mimic 3.4.3 18:55 it might be possible to comment out the code in question 18:55 a direct rollback would be difficult though 18:55 stuff like "only use create monster at 35% or less HP" for example 18:55 which is what happens in 3.4.3 18:55 Junethack: luxidream ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 18:55 Junethack: luxidream ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 18:55 OTOH, at this point it'd make more sense to merge dynahack and fiqhack into a new variant 18:55 Junethack: luxidream ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 18:55 the only *major* difficulty in AI rollback 18:55 Junethack: luxidream ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 18:55 is spells 18:55 Junethack: luxidream ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 18:55 because FIQHack monster spellcasting simply doesn't exist 18:56 Junethack: luxidream ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 18:56 Junethack: luxidream ascended a game of DynaHack on www.hardfought.org! 18:56 maybe some of the AI improvements should be in the dynahack rebase 18:56 many vanilla monster spells would make sense as player spells in FIQHack anyway 18:56 <@luxidream> call it dynaFIQ 18:56 destroy armor? curse items? 18:56 <@luxidream> problem solved 18:56 FynaHack :P 18:56 its not like you're constrained by anything. do it however you see fit 18:57 ok food time. when i come back, i expect to see new dynahack 18:57 :P 18:57 a smaller amout of work, I guess, would be to port 4.3save onto dynahack 18:58 <{Demo}2> spammer 18:58 the main reason that can be a problematic option 18:58 is that you'd have to deal with the save optimizations from 4.3 all over again 18:58 alongside desync spam 18:59 stuff like AI movement data 18:59 for example 18:59 ah right, yes 18:59 that's why I'm more incliend to port dyna gameplay on a NH4.3 base 18:59 (NH4 changes the rules for when monsters move slightly to make them much easier to represent within the save file) 19:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 19:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 19:00 I wonder how extensive dynahack's changes are? 19:00 some of them, like object properties, are large but already exist in fiqhahck 19:01 I think dynahack's major work is in the dungeon topology 19:01 does the topology allow loops? 19:01 I need some guidance, if I may, please. Reaching a critical point with a pacifist in EvilHack. Many of my pets (in other games) have succumbed to the new engulfing attacks, especially dragons. 19:01 I mean the dungeon layout, the internals uses unnethack 4 format I think 19:01 that would be something that /many/ variants would benefit from IMO (I might even consider using it in vanilla) 19:01 (so more advanced than 3.4.3, but not unnethack 5 vaults) 19:01 !whereis JarlEarl 19:01 JuneSurfer: JarlEarl is not playing. 19:02 :/ 19:02 oh, lev-files, not pdf-files? 19:02 The starting pseudogragon continues to bring joy in many ways (!), but am at the point where he is starting to take a decent amount of damage and do not have a healing spell yet. 19:02 If by "loops" you mean separate branches that connect at both ends, then yes, that would be highly useful. 19:02 pdf-files? 19:02 I assume you don't mean the document format 19:02 where are you at jonadab 19:02 ignore that 19:02 where are you at JarlEarl 19:03 JuneSrufer: playing as PaciFIST, game currently not loaded. 19:03 Sorry: JuneSurfer! 19:03 Oh, man, pacifist. 19:04 Maybe ask stenno if he is around, I think he has played pacifist? 19:04 pacifist in evilhack no less 19:04 FIQ: dungeon.pdf is the compiled version of dungeon.def 19:04 Indeed. 19:04 i'm actually trying the same run 19:04 First off, is he large enough to avoid the engulfing attacks? Second of all, I ahve a possible wish and am willing to risk losing a permananet light source to get a better pet to progres my game. 19:04 it's the file that lists which branches exist and how they connect to each other 19:04 i have not successfully played pacifist 19:04 @evil?pseudodragon 19:04 and is generated by dgn_comp 19:05 ais523: I don't know exactly what unnethack 4 did. All I know is that the .lev format is more feature rich than the 3.4.3 format 19:05 well in other variants pseudodragons are small 19:05 as i believe they are in their source material 19:05 so probably not 19:05 dynahack ported basically all of unnethack 4, a mere week before unnethack 5 landed 19:05 that was probably a big reason why tungtn ultimately stopped working on it 19:05 having to deal with nitrohack shenanigans 19:05 I think there are a range of different levfile formats around 19:06 and failing to port unnethack 19:06 the 3.6.0 format is different from the 3.4.3 format, right? 19:06 in the end 19:06 They grow large enough in Evil to ride, so I was thinking _maybe_ . . . 19:06 yeah 19:06 it has some additions 19:06 …is the 3.6.0 format the same as Un's? 19:06 maybe? 19:06 well maybe they are larger in evilhack idk 19:07 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/src/monst.c#L1499 19:07 They progress from an elder to an ancient pseudo. 19:07 Size is the last thing in the SIZ macro. 19:07 pseudodragons is an exercise in patience to train up 19:07 becaues they're fragile for a very long time 19:08 and die very easily 19:08 Well, I _am_ playing a pacifdist, soooooo ;) :) 19:08 So pseudodragon is MZ_SMALL, elder pseudodragon is MZ_SMALL, ancient is MZ_LARGE 19:08 so once you get it all grown up it'll be good for a little bit longer 19:08 I don't know what the cutoff is for "too large to be engulfed" 19:09 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Neu) was given the Blade Dancer's Dagger, on T:7164 19:09 oops 19:09 monsters have to be huge to avoid engulfing 19:09 so no 19:09 it's still screwed 19:09 Had to very patient to get where I am. Thanks for the info, jonadab. Is that all of the monsters 19:09 Ah. 19:10 monst.c is all kinds of monsters that exist in the game, yes. 19:10 Mostly in mlet order. 19:10 the order does follow a system 19:10 So e.g. after all the D you get all the E, then all the F. 19:10 but it's an overly complicated system 19:10 although if it's not a whirly you let yourself be engulfed, then do the wand of digging trick to set your pet up for an easy kill 19:10 and there are random exceptions 19:10 ultimately the order doesn't actually matter 19:11 so I don'ät know why they even have an elaborate set of rules for it 19:11 Was going to ask if Archons still exist? Or if k2 implemented Solars or Planetars into Evil? 19:11 Within each mlet, the order is... yeah, complicated. Lower-level things tend to come earlier, but. 19:11 I think the only real constraint 19:11 Also, the quest monsters and certain other uniques are not strictly in mlet order; they have their own sections. 19:11 is: don't fuck with the order on dragons, because armor 19:11 and make all of the same mlet grouped together 19:12 If we want the A, scroll up a bit from the D. 19:12 (or you mess up monster generation optimization assumptions) 19:12 it's more complex than "don't change the order for dragons", IIRC new dragons have to go in the middle? 19:12 Archin is around line 1213. 19:12 because some code assumes that yellow is last 19:12 ais523: yes 19:12 Or, pretty much, if therer is a better monster than an Archon in Evil? 19:12 the first and last must stay consistent 19:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] introsp3ctive (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:5898 19:12 within the ones able to confer dragon armor 19:12 Yes, code in various places assume that gray dragons are first and yellow last. 19:12 otherwise you can do whatever 19:13 oh, and the order must remain consistent with objects.c 19:13 To give some background info on me: my only ascension in Slash'EM is a pacifist. 19:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] zombifier (Mon Hlf Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:91433 19:18 ...oh I'm stupid 19:18 I was really confused over why the game was able to distinguish between a helmet and a magical helm in my ID check debugging 19:18 because apparently they have different weights 19:18 >_< 19:19 didn't realize 19:20 JuneSurfer: I like the strategy of of getting engulfed and using a wand of digging. I've never encountered the need for that. The only thing is I greatly fear gelatinous cubes now. And I am at the point in my game where they are going to start showing up. Do cubes kills pets? I have a couple instances where they were spit out. 19:21 i haven't progressed far enough for gelatinous cubes in evil yet 19:21 but in vanilla i know that MvM engulfing has them "engulf" the monster, then spit it out immediately 19:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] zombifier (Mon Hlf Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:91669 19:23 I also greatly fear dragons now. Archons are only large and will get the "Burrrrrrp!" with them as well! May pets have died to a dragon thus far (in non-pacisist games). 19:23 I thought Archons were huge. But I may be thinking of Solars and Planetars. 19:24 archons are huge 19:24 er wait 19:24 nevermind 19:24 dang it 19:25 what am i supposed to spend that figurine wish on 19:28 [hdf-us] [nh363] RedArrow (Arc Hum Mal Law), 876 points, T:2223, killed by an elven dagger 19:28 idk maybe elder minotaurs? 19:28 those might be a decent pet 19:28 Wow. This is weird. Trying a pacifist in Evil. Seems like a mega challenge. Change a few attributes to monsters and everything changes. Need a monster that can take on the Wiz, with high enough level (or be able to kill with conflict). Purple worms die so easily for me. 19:28 elder minotaurs have a base level of 26 19:29 i assume that maxes out at 39 19:29 but on the downside they can't use any equipment... 19:30 Where is max level listed in the programming? I wish I knew programming, but alas, I do not. I can do some searching if I know where I can look. Or, is it not explicitly listed? 19:31 max level is base level * 1.5 capped at 49 19:31 rounded down 19:31 vampire mages would probably be a better choice though 19:31 evil works like grunthack, right? 19:31 in terms of monster AI 19:31 and spellcasting 19:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Neu) killed Cerberus, on T:9425 19:32 somewhat 19:32 no clue i just said that because they can use equipment and are high level 19:32 a lot of the monster AI was incorporated from grunthack, but some from sporkhack also 19:32 and player spells for monsters was not carried over 19:32 what was added exactly? 19:32 AI-wise 19:32 aww 19:32 can pets cast offensive spells in evil? 19:32 that's the critical question 19:32 that's one of the best grunthack AI changes 19:32 Vampire Mage would be amazing. If they cast heal spells. Can one wish for a figurine of a vampire mage, however? Or a vampire or vampire lord figurine? 19:32 sure 19:33 "sure" 19:33 ??? 19:33 I've had pet vampires in Slash'EM with bub -30 armor classes. 19:33 here's an idea. play the game and find out ;) 19:33 no u 19:33 ^sub -30 AC 19:34 just give them the amulet tbh 19:34 fiqhack pets can wear slow digestion 19:34 :P 19:34 so can evilhack pets ;) 19:34 gives them protection against digestion attacks 19:34 if they have hands 19:34 ooh you made them wear rings? 19:34 i incorporated L's monsters can wear rings patch 19:34 ah 19:35 its neat 19:35 fiqhack's is based off that but has its own code to account for fiqhack's intrinsic rewrite 19:35 so it should work mostly similar 19:35 good to know 19:36 i adjusted dogmove.c a bit so intelligent monsters will actively look for rings they can use 19:36 neat 19:36 fiqhack doesn't do that 19:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] zombifier (Mon Hlf Mal Neu) killed the elder priest of Moloch, on T:92178 19:36 maybe I should... 19:37 at least for hostile monsters 19:37 i also ported over grunthacks thing with monsters looting containers and stashing objects in bags 19:37 you are able to give pets items easily after all 19:37 they cheat in grunthack 19:37 awesome 1800 gold spent and no elbereth from the oracle 19:37 you can have a bag inside another bag 19:37 thanks for nothing oracle 19:37 yeah the #give command is awesome 19:37 monsters will be able to get content from the innermost bag in a single turn 19:37 without extracting the inner bag first 19:37 in grunthack 19:37 Yes, I know, I know --- play the game. And that is what I always do and have done. I try to limit my questions . I just want a pet so that I can continue to play. 19:37 in FIQHack they have to 19:37 hah 19:38 JarlEarl: vampire mage is a decent pet 19:38 K2: heh, in fiqhack you just throw them items :P 19:38 Can one wish for a figurine, thought? 19:38 any pet you have that has hands, find a ring of slow digestion for them to wear so they wont be engulfed 19:38 no #give 19:38 *though 19:38 JarlEarl yes 19:38 FIQ: i grabbed #give from splicehack and I think that originally came from slash'em 19:39 Cool. They are awesome in Slash'EM. They cast heal spells? 19:39 JarlEarl: you can get a figurine of any monster that is not unique 19:39 yes all spellcasting monsters have the ability to heal themselves 19:39 cure self is a low level base spell 19:39 thats vanilla 19:40 i added a bit of code so if monsters are low on hp, that spell becomes priority 19:40 JuneSurfer: Ah, OK. Thought there were some limitations in some variants. 19:40 a cool trick would be spellcasting pets healing the hero 19:40 sure its doable 19:41 K2: player heal would be nice! They'd have to be the same alignment, maybe? 19:41 perhaps.. anything goes really 19:41 Why would an evil Vampire want to to help my neutral pacifist? 19:41 maybe their apport needs to be a certain level 19:41 because they like you Earl 19:42 Can a vampire mage take on the Wiz? :)? 19:42 at max level yes 19:43 but the wiz levels up every death 19:43 so you'll need to feed it gain level potions 19:43 JarlEarl: i've never tested vampire mage against the WoY 19:43 Also, wanted to ask: were poly traps changed in Evil? I finally found one in my game and my excitement was very-shortly-lived. I saw an orc deliberately jump into a poly trap and I cannot locate it? 19:43 or you could just let it eat wraith corpses 19:44 FIQ: if you ever get the chance, I wouldnt mind getting feedback from you on the commits we've made to evilhack. maybe you could even find time to play it :P 19:45 but fix dynahack first :P 19:46 What I like about vampires is that they can be armored up big-time! So, I can %give my Vampire Mage rings and maybe even the Ring of P'hul if I find it on another corspe?! 19:46 JarlEarl: polytraps were initially changed to go away when monsters used them just like the player, but that was reverted back 19:46 %give = #give, of course. 19:46 JarlEarl yeah you can #give your pet anything 19:46 perhaps 19:46 whether they use it... 19:46 but evilhack doesn't sound that enticing to play 19:46 FIQ: to you you mean 19:46 k2 i just walked into a room with a bunch of dead wizards 19:47 neat 19:47 One disappeared on me last night. So, the new version coming will revert poly traps? 19:47 also contains dead students 19:47 K2: yes, to me 19:47 opinions generally only apply to oneself you know 19:47 JarlEarl: polytraps should act the same way as vanilla right now 19:47 I can't speak for other people lol 19:47 FIQ: your statement implied more than you but yeah heh 19:48 <@luxidream> JuneSurfer: that's an un vault 19:48 thats ok 19:48 i dont play a ton of fiqhack either 19:48 an un vault? 19:48 (not a fan of the wand balance patch) 19:48 I, for one, am greatly enjoying EvilHack! It frustrates me to death at time, but I keep coming back! 19:48 wand balance patch is probably fiqhack's biggest flaw 19:49 wand balance patch has some great things, i would just implement it differently if i were to do it 19:49 It borrows enough and changes enough from Vanilla w/o going too far. 19:49 K2: heh 19:49 but evilhack reminds me of evil patch ideas 19:49 and there is a certain other variant that has a habit of implementing a lot of those 19:49 including UI screws 19:49 honestly... there's maybe 1-2 actual EPI's in evilhack 19:49 which I dislike when playing 19:50 what are they? 19:50 well there's zero UI screws, fuck that noise 19:50 1) wands of nothing cost the same as wands of death and wishing :D 19:50 Heh 19:51 also I recall you refusing to add paranoid water to grunt 19:51 and... i honestly cant remember if theres a 2nd from the official EPI list 19:51 which is an UI screw 19:51 :P 19:51 there's no paranoid anything in evilhack 19:51 and thats vanilla behavior thank you very much ;) 19:51 urgh 19:51 I don't like walking into lava due to typos 19:51 however, comma 19:51 the water in the mines is lit 19:52 <@luxidream> the real variant that needs paranoid water/lava is dnethack 19:52 dang it dog 19:52 don't eat floating eyes 19:52 I suppose that's sort of an improvement 19:52 i want those 19:52 Well, perhaps it was a bug, then. Poly trap disappeared after my character witnessed it jump into it. I, personally, did not see it. There is no green caret present. 19:52 @luxidream heh, I forgot that it didn't 19:52 a huge pain 19:52 <@luxidream> Yeah I had a promising binder 19:52 <@luxidream> then pressed the wrong key 19:52 dnethack was my favorite variant 19:52 <@luxidream> lava'd, dywypi 19:53 around... 3.7 or so? 19:53 FIQ we can relive our debates about paranoid water/lava and wand balance patch things 19:53 then it added some weird stuff that I don't really like in it 19:53 Yeah, I had a rather promising character fry to a crisp due to my fat-fingering! 19:53 <@luxidream> like what? 19:53 -!- zombifier has joined #hardfought 19:53 [hdf-us] [nh363] jmcunx (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 628 points, T:3325, died of starvation, while frozen by a monster's gaze 19:53 JarlEarl I'll need to look at polytrap behavior again 19:54 there was a reason wy changes were made 19:54 @luxidream Around the same time dnh added ana as role, it buffed a bunch of monsters to balance it out 19:54 why 19:54 at the expense of some of the weaker roles 19:54 it was years ago I played, I don't remember the details 19:54 but if a polytrap goes away after one use for the hero, it would make sense for the monster as well 19:54 oh that was how you fixed everything in sokoban k2 19:54 K2: in fourk, polytraps can persist for both players and monsters 19:54 If my character witnessed the trap, I should see it on screen, correct? Not sure of Evil's behavior. 19:54 you made the walls iron 19:54 playing pacifist, i get it, you want to throw your pet onto a polytrap n times until you get an archon 19:55 but disappears x% of the time 19:55 Does it disappear after one use with a pet? 19:55 becoming less likely to disappear on use the lower in the dungeons you are 19:55 <@luxidream> you can't get an archon 19:55 i don't think archons are a valid poly form 19:55 right 19:55 Archons are nopoly 19:55 just an example 19:55 <@luxidream> I also have no idea what's going on in dnh any more 19:55 s/archon/woodchuck named carl 19:55 No, strongest pet in Vanilla in poly trap is Balrog. 19:55 <@luxidream> why was AC changed to AC/DR? why was this necessary 19:56 Or Titan. 19:56 The best pet you can get from them are arch-liches and titans (in variants where their monster spellcasting is useful), various dragon forms (in variants without monster spellcasting) and purple worms 19:56 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Tmasher (Ana Dwa Fem Cha) completed Lokoban, on T:5776 19:56 JarlEarl: witnessing trap behavior is the same from vanilla. i didnt change that aspect 19:56 aren't balrogs super slow though 19:57 a sped up gelcube as a pet in evilhack might be fun 19:57 engulf strangle doesn't work on monsters 19:57 unless you made it work 19:57 the paralyze bit should 19:57 I get tired of reading all of the freezing messages with Lichs. That, and teleporting around and killing all of the peacefuls. 19:58 liches kill peacefuls? 19:58 oh right, not-NH4 pets do that 19:58 somehow I forgot... lol 19:58 Shopkeeperrs. Priests. 19:58 priests are the ones you don't want dead 19:58 Shopkeepers for price-ID. 19:59 Really useful with that pile of 500 pieces of armor from the Fort. 19:59 man why does it have to be monday... tonight would be a *perfect* night for a bonfire 20:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00 clear sky, perfect temp, lawn is mowed... dammit 20:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 20:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 20:00 Its nice herer too. For once. Been real cold at night thus far. 20:01 Well, this feels odd, but I a think I am going all in on a Vampire Mage! Not the usual Archon wish. lol. 20:01 ;) 20:02 So, until I get a spare ring of slow digestion, I must tread carefully! 20:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] zombifier (Mon Hlf Mal Neu) killed Baphomet, on T:94508 20:02 Excited to get as far as I have! 20:03 <{Demo}2> geno gelat 20:04 [hdf-us] [nh4] OBJECTION! (Luxidream) (Val Hum Fem Law), 64306 points, T:20697, killed by a death ray 20:04 yeah there's a long single genocide list in evil 20:04 gelatinous cubes, vorpal jabberwocks, elder minotaurs, disenchanters 20:04 well not *that* long i guess 20:04 woodchucks 20:05 ??? 20:05 :D 20:06 Demo: Obviously. :) And the 15 other monsters that would cause general pacifist-related headaches. I usually only geno L's and h's in other non-pacifist games. We'll see how _that _ goes in Evil! :) 20:08 Need to find a scroll of geno first! 20:08 We need a headless player character in Evil! That, and the ability to play as sickness-immune vampires! 20:08 <{Demo}2> gelat more common 20:09 oh footrices need to go too in pacifist 20:09 I am at the point where they are going to start appearing, too . . . gulp! Love them for the resistance, but, yikes! 20:10 Yeah, unless one gets a Yellow Dragon or winged/gargoyle. 20:10 Purple worms, trappers, lurker aboves. 20:10 archon storm in 3... 2... 1... 20:10 they don't sound that bad 20:10 wand of digging = dead one turn later 20:11 Besides the basilisk are there _new_ footrices that are even . . . deadlier? Yikes?! 20:11 Basilisk not a 'trice, yes, but still stones. 20:13 actually basilisk is also a c 20:13 so bless geno those guys 20:14 But, blessed geno seems to be random in Evil? 20:14 si 20:14 It picks only 2 of a species? 20:14 si 20:14 generally the top 2 but not always 20:15 ... si 20:15 Wait, wait, wait, I knoqw hat my confusiuon weith basilisk wasa: they are ' 20:15 take a cockatrice, make it bigger/stronger/faster --> basilisk 20:16 Boy, that was a bunch a garbage typing. My confusion was that basilisk are " : " in Slash'EM. 20:16 ah 20:17 okay so you'd have to get rid of: gel cubes, vorpal jabberwocks, chickatrice, cockatrice, basilisk, disenchanter, (master) mind flayers, arch liches, maybe master liches too just to be safe, sea monsters, and elder minotaurs 20:17 I need t resatrt my browser --- thing s are getting really slow. 20:17 [hdf-us] [nh363] Grouchy (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Yeenoghu, on T:34097 20:18 I wait for sea monsters, I think everyone does? Although, there _is_ more water in Evil! 20:18 dont forget woodchucks 20:18 They only appear in Oracle? 20:19 lol 20:19 They have nsty bites in real life, but... 20:19 i'm just messing with you about woodchucks 20:19 @luxidream: The AC/DR split reduces the amount of variance in the system while making all the numbers smaller, and therefore less different between overprepared and underprepared characters. 20:19 Chris_ANG: Message from @riker at 2019-06-16 15:12 EDT: if you try to refill a viperwhip you can mess it up, my starting one had 8 then 7 and when I found a random !oSleeping it was "drawn up into" etc and now it's 2 coatings >:U (not like it should be 8) 20:19 Chris_ANG: Message from @riker at 2019-06-17 13:39 EDT: "the medium Garnet Rod. " hm is it supposed to appear like that >.> (random mines tool ftw) 20:20 JuneSurfer: your list is basically what I do. Vorpal is new with Evil. I usually do trapper and lurkers as well as purple worms. Purple worms are great pets, but usually so short-lived for me. 20:21 Also, I think FIQ may be slightly mis-remembering? The main dungeon is *definitely* not balanced around Anachrononauts, and the new monsters that were added for them are found only in their quest. However, *Drow* added a number of monsters that turned out to have high gank potential :/ 20:22 <{Demo}2> oh man, if the dungeon was balanced around anas everything would be unplayable 20:23 For example, edderkops (which feature in the Ana quest) were added as part of Drow, and one of them can ruin a low-powered run 20:24 <{Demo}2> they aren't particularly quick 20:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Neu) was given Vorpal Blade, on T:14170 20:24 Chris_ANG: might have been drow then 20:26 -!- UsagiMero has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:26 -!- UsagiMero has joined #hardfought 20:27 @riker: Thanks re: Garnet Rod, I also found one of those. It's probably a long-standing bug that got revealed by Nero's object name re-write XD. The code that creates artifacts is... kinda a mess. 20:28 (I blame vanilla <.<) 20:28 -!- hf_guest_52 has joined #hardfought 20:29 <{Demo}2> good plan 20:29 <{Demo}2> i can blame ndnh issues on dnh, then u can blame them on vanilla and we r all in the clear 20:29 -!- JarlEarl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30 * Chris_ANG provides a link blaming the AC/DR split on vanilla, too: https://etherpad.net/p/dNethack_AC 20:33 okay k2 how did you end up doing the sokoban prizes 20:33 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 20:34 each room has a 50/50 chance of one of two prizes 20:34 its random which prize and which type/location 20:34 what are the possible prizes 20:34 your typical three 20:34 three? 20:35 plus either an amulet of flying, cloak of protection , or magic marker 20:35 the typical 3 being BoH, CoMR, amulet of reflection 20:35 okay 20:35 <{Demo}2> i want a bag of markers 20:35 what's the deal with doors and the rooms sealing 20:36 you cant leave with more than one prize 20:36 no soup for you 20:37 <{Demo}2> once you open a door the rest seal 20:37 are supposed to... sometimes they dont if a monster breaks down the door 20:37 but 20:37 once you touch one prize, the other disappear 20:37 *others 20:37 never take the bag 20:38 <{Demo}2> i want a bag of holding with a bunch of french fries 20:38 so does it only happen once you *pick up* the prize? 20:38 <{Demo}2> no, once you open a door 20:38 the prize disappearing bit, yes 20:38 <{Demo}2> so you cannot open doors to see which prize 20:38 only once *I* open a door? 20:38 <{Demo}2> you must use object detection 20:38 its a mash between grunthack and unnethack sokoban end 20:39 <{Demo}2> if you want to see what is there 20:39 what if the door is destroyed 20:39 ^ even that isnt 100% 20:39 <{Demo}2> then it might choose for you 20:39 the potion 20:39 <{Demo}2> that happened to me the first time 20:39 <{Demo}2> all i know is that its a confusing broken feeling mess 20:39 <{Demo}2> and its epic though 20:39 sometimes all three doors can be broken down, you can look in and see all three 20:39 <{Demo}2> cause its so evil 20:39 <{Demo}2> like its worse than vanilla for how much you get screwed over 20:40 nah 20:40 wait is it if you use object detection or breaking the door that it can seal two doors? 20:40 i've never been screwed over in evil soko 20:40 any of the prizes are good items. not my problem if its not what you want/need 20:40 <{Demo}2> well maybe ur a smarter chimp than me :P 20:40 but what if i want to game the system and get all three 20:40 <{Demo}2> i always get destroyed there 20:40 i have a conical hat that says wizzard 20:41 <{Demo}2> mine says.. idk what i cant read 20:41 JuneSurfer: using obj detection only reveals things like 'the sokoban tool prize' or 'sokoban amulet prize' 20:41 pff 20:41 you cant tell exactly what it is until you see it eyes on 20:41 welcome to evilhack 20:41 so breaking the doors can seal the other two? 20:41 where you actually have to you know... work for things that you want 20:41 yes 20:44 ugh my dog is obsessed with this 2x2 area 20:44 another dog probably peed there at some point 20:44 mmm scent marker 20:44 <{Demo}2> hmm. kicking pets should be a thing 20:44 <{Demo}2> that is useful 20:45 You can kick your steed to make it gallop? 20:45 <{Demo}2> wait what if i can pick up my cat and fling it at enemies? 20:45 -!- Pinkbeas1 has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:45 Better: giants pick up other enemies to throw at you! 20:45 * JuneSurfer calls animal control on Demo 20:46 <{Demo}2> yikes a cockatrice 20:47 dorf tossing 20:49 note to self: if you get a single genocide soon, use it on floating eyes 20:53 -!- JonathanHanes has joined #hardfought 20:53 !ping 20:53 JonathanHanes: Pong! 20:53 [hdf-us] [evil] StatueSurfer (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 501 points, T:8977, killed by a giant mimic 20:55 !role 20:55 JonathanHanes: unnethack monk 20:55 omigosh 20:55 how did you know 20:55 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:30198 20:58 -!- JuneSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 21:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 21:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] zombifier (Mon Hlf Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:96133 21:05 <{Demo}2> i wanna see someone do proper dnh turncount speedruns 21:07 Sure, with a few categories 21:07 Non-anachrononaut, and non-incantifier :D 21:07 <{Demo}2> oh :P 21:08 Do you have a game going at the moment? 21:11 <{Demo}2> of dnh? nope 21:11 <{Demo}2> of ndnh, yeah 21:11 <{Demo}2> of dnhslex, god no don't ever 21:12 I'll race you an incantifier anachrononaut in dnh :) 21:12 [hdf-us] [nh363] introsp3ctive (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 18821 points, T:13849, killed by a human mummy 21:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] zombifier (Mon Hlf Mal Neu) destroyed Famine, on T:96608 21:17 [hdf-us] [evil] PaciFIST (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed figurine of a vampire mage", on T:32462 21:17 <{Demo}2> i think dwarf is faster 21:18 well Famine is actually threatening now 21:18 <{Demo}2> not while he's dead :P 21:19 Pestilence is also evil 21:19 anyway I should probably do a bunch of stupid shit now that I'm standing on the altar 21:19 How's he buffed? 21:19 <{Demo}2> pestilence is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy worse than famine in dnh 21:19 <{Demo}2> cause he can put you down to 2 turns to live pretty easy 21:20 2x 8d8 touch disease, 2x high-damage diseasing arrows 21:20 <{Demo}2> its not about the dmg, its about the instadeath 21:20 I'm a monk which is like stupid buffed including disease res so I probably don't have to worry 21:20 Easily 100+ damage per turn and 4 applications of disease 21:20 <{Demo}2> dnh astral is easy as hell if you are prepared 21:20 <{Demo}2> and fortunately its not that hard to be prepared 21:21 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] zombifier (Mon Hlf Mal Neu) killed the high priestess of Chih Sung-tzu, on T:96672 21:22 -!- UsagiMero has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:22 woops 21:22 -!- JarlEarl has joined #hardfought 21:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] zombifier (Mon Hlf Mal Neu), 12385922 points, T:96678, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/z/zombifier/dnethack/dumplog/1560036079.dnh.txt 21:23 -!- JarlEarl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23 Woohoo! 21:23 New trophy-holder for most dnh ascensions this June 21:23 -!- JarlEarl has joined #hardfought 21:23 well demo got 1 dnh and 1 ndnh so if he wanted to he could equal me 21:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] NeroOneTrueKing (Ana Inc Mal Neu) killed Cerberus, on T:1130 21:25 Dammit! Forgot about the whole vampire bat/vampire thing that changed in 3.6.x! Until I get a ring of protection from shape changers, a vampire mage will never reliably gains levels. Anything that is gained will be lost when they change form. 21:25 <{Demo}2> i kinda wanna try to speenrun ana 21:25 <{Demo}2> i have no idea how that would work 21:25 <@Dirge Boy> i wheezed at dorf tossing 21:25 Also a lot harder to keep track of armor. 21:25 <{Demo}2> a lot of my strategy in dnh relies on being overprepared 21:25 <@Dorf Tosser> You throw the dorf! 21:26 <@Dorf Tosser> Its pointy hat hits the beholder's eye! 21:26 Nice one zombifier! dnh is epic (and I too seem to overprepare a lot) 21:26 I've been having fun (read: dying) trying to be underprepared 21:26 And even then, I need to kill one of my ring slots or #give them an amulet of unchanging, instead of lifesaving or reflection. 21:28 {Demo}2: Ana speedrun: Find Quest portal, raid storerooms, ascend! ;) 21:28 what variant is #give from? 21:28 {Demo}2: one can never be overprepared in any *Hack game! 21:28 ais523 EvilHack. 21:28 also, does it handle all the TDTTOE implications? (e.g. giving shks money, quest leader the Artifact of Yendor, etc.)? 21:28 ais523: It cqme from splicehack originally I think. 21:28 just hearing that verb suggested gets me worried as a developer, there's so many possible things it could apply to 21:29 I wonder if you gan #give away loadstones :) 21:29 [hdf-us] [nh363] Wolfechu (Val Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:13240 21:30 give your pet giant with a sling loadstones 21:30 at least it pretty clearly takes a monster as object and item as indirect object (the player is the subject), so you don't need to worry about making it work with multiple categories of items 21:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] NeroOneTrueKing (Ana Inc Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:1311 21:30 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:30644 21:30 <{Demo}2> tangles: nah 21:30 <{Demo}2> very much not that easy 21:30 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) picked up the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:30645 21:30 <{Demo}2> those dont put you far ahead enough 21:30 {Demo}2: Yeah I know. 21:31 "For some reason, you cannot share the stone!" 21:31 clearly it ends up stuck to /both/ the player's and monster's inventories, gluing them together 21:31 congrats zombifier 21:31 THe trick with dnethack is knowing how to prepare, and what to prepare for. So much stuff can (but probably won't) happen. 21:32 hmm, there seems like a decent chance that giving someone Sunsword is buggy 21:33 <{Demo}2> a lot of it is cursed teleport and gain level 21:34 Worst is when you think you're overprepared, but actually you're underprepared! 21:34 "oh shit that monster has a chapter named "dnethack" better run like fuck" 21:34 Junethack: zombifier ascended a game of dNetHack on www.hardfought.org! 21:34 because 9 times out of 10 it will be details on how that monster is buffed to systematically **** you 21:36 -!- hf_guest_52 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:41 [hdf-us] [dnh] NeroOneTrueKing (Ana Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2628 21:42 Congrats, zombifier :) 21:46 [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Kni Elf Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:4823 21:48 [hdf-us] [evil] Noah (Wiz Hob Fem Neu), 165 points, T:723, zombified by a kobold zombie 21:49 <@introsp3ctive> !lg zombifier 21:52 !lastgame zombifier 21:52 Tangles: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/z/zombifier/dnethack/dumplog/1560036079.dnh.txt 21:52 -!- JuneSurfer has joined #hardfought 21:54 lol engagement ring was aggravate monster! 21:55 sounds legit 21:55 would be better if it was conflict :p 21:55 "will you marry me?" *snarling* "Okay i guess not" 21:55 lol 21:56 How did he get AC:-38?? 21:57 who 21:57 I only got down to about -25 or so even with body armor and everything fully enchanted. 21:58 JuneSurfer: zombifier's dnh ascension. 21:58 !lastgame dnh tangles 21:58 Tangles: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/T/Tangles/dnethack/dumplog/1534858827.dnh.txt | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/T/Tangles/dnethack/dumplog/1559839377.dnh.txt 21:58 <{Demo}2> my fave dnh asc is the time i maxed out ac https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/Demo/dnethack/dumplog/1529107846.dnh.txt 21:59 my guess is trash loads of divine protection 21:59 that's disgusting demo 21:59 lol I ascended with -11 due to HoOA. 21:59 I notice he's not wearing body armor -- I wonder how much monk AC is? 22:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00 no better than anyone else's 22:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 22:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 22:00 I can't remember if half-dragons start with a lower base AC also? 22:03 Half dragons do start with a lower AC, and gain more over time. 22:04 [hdf-us] [nh363] fcloud (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:33405 22:04 good to know! 22:05 <{Demo}2> on the old system a level 30 hd monk would get -25 natural ac with 25 dex and nothing else on 22:05 yeah -38 and that's with halfassing with armor enchantments 22:05 -45 with protection spell. kinda ridiculous lol 22:05 <{Demo}2> ac in the new version is about half of old ac? 22:05 <{Demo}2> so thats closer to like -76? 22:06 Speaking of protection .... vampire mages cast cancellation . . . at me? I assume it is ball spell, but -- what? I've gone from -27 to -17 in a few turns! 22:08 Pet received from figurine in EvilHack. 22:09 It seemed magic resistance was blocking it at first. 22:10 JarlEarl 22:10 And what is weird is he keeps casting it, with no monsters around. 22:10 are you saying your pet vampire mage is casting cancellation at you? 22:11 He just keeps casting, over and over. Monster (enemy) or no monster present. 22:11 And yes, it affected me. 22:11 i'm watching your game... i gotta see this 22:11 !rng Ancient|Surya 22:11 Tarmunora: Surya 22:11 Had some really nice armor, 22:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Neu) wished for "Blessed figurine of a Surya Deva", on T:18258 22:12 actually i can just wiztest it 22:12 goes without saying, your pets shouldnt cast cancellation on you 22:12 >.> They would give off light, wouldn't they 22:12 Nice Thoth gifts .... ;) +4 dexterity gloves and +5 leather armor.... was at -27. 22:13 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 22:14 rofl.. yeah thats not supposed to happen 22:14 See it? It just happened. Down to -14.! 22:14 yup 22:14 Is there a ..... undo button almighty Creator? 22:14 ;) 22:14 welcome to the beta test 22:14 working on a fix now 22:14 I know, I know, I jest. 22:15 [hdf-us] [nh363] Cropper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 5326 points, T:4321, quit 22:15 maybe he was just trying to uncurse your inventory 22:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Neu) was given their Quest, on T:18507 22:16 Program some replacement armor on level 15 (haven't been there yet)! :) 22:16 I joke, if one thing goodies seem to be readily available in EvilHack to balance to evilness. 22:17 just reproduced 22:17 JuneSurfer: haha - no cursed items in my inventory. 22:17 at first i thought it was casting at a monster, i was being it and it 22:17 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:17 but nope 22:17 If he actually casts cancellation at *monsters* that would be awesome! 22:17 so lets see why... 22:18 Bug Hall Of Fame! 22:18 A bunch of cancelled dragons throughout the game?! 22:18 "oh wait that *was* intentional so that no one could keep good pets and armor at the same time! wahahaha" 22:18 lol ais523 22:18 K2: may I go add that? 22:18 sure why not 22:18 add it along with the missing VS 22:18 how is the h in evilhack capitalised? 22:19 EvilHack 22:19 this is a surprisingly contentious subject so I have to ask about it per-variant :-) 22:19 someone almost accused me of capitalising NetHack incorrectly before they a) noticed I was a NetHack dev and b) looked it up 22:19 hahah 22:20 JarlEarl: i'd save your game for now 22:20 let me fix this 22:20 Game saved. 22:20 otherwise it's going to cancel all your shit 22:20 also, what was the missing VS bug? just that the VS didn't generate? 22:20 All my shit .... cancelled . ;) 22:21 I guess a missing vibrating square fits in with what other people have been adding to the bug hall of fame, but it didn't fit the original vision 22:21 [hdf-us] [nh363] Cropper (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 38 points, T:210, killed by an electric shock 22:21 Not sure about wands, though as they are not ID'ed. Probably sitting at 0:0, though. And teleportation wand have been scarce! Yikes! 22:21 ais523: when i had added the unnethack style gehennom, the way it merged with 3.6.x wasnt exact, there was a bit of code i was missing 22:21 so you'd get to the bottom of the dungeon, no VS 22:21 here's the new addition: https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Bug_Hall_of_Fame&diff=126155&oldid=125399 22:21 could tele down and go straight to the sanctum 22:21 if i reached the bottom of the dungeon and there was no VS 22:22 oh, if it lets you straight into the Sanctum, that definitely counts IMO 22:22 and do the ascrun with no harassment from the wizard 22:22 -14 AC with no enchantments ain't bad, though, I guess. 22:22 I'll add that too 22:22 i would possibly hunt down the devteam 22:22 that's way funnier than the game not being winnable due to the VS not spawning 22:22 i think one of hothraxxa evilhack ascensions was without the VS 22:23 nope 22:23 luckily people more code savvy than I (read: Tangles) saw the issue right away and fixed it 22:23 elenmirie had no vs but she splatted 22:23 due to another bug 22:23 was it jilies then? 22:23 could be 22:24 here we go: https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Bug_Hall_of_Fame&action=history 22:24 if there are any factual inaccuracies, feel free to fix 22:24 ok, i need to stop chatting and address this bug 22:24 ais523 will do 22:28 <@riker> hey tarmunora: how are you managing that surya & your vision as a drow? just the torch? 22:29 that evilhack "pets cancel you" bug is pretty similar to NH4's bug where tame demons would summon hostile demons 22:29 I forgot it gave off light >.> 22:29 although the latter is totally in character :-P 22:29 And yeah, the torch is handling it for now 22:29 <@riker> nice 22:29 hmm i think i see why 22:29 <@riker> I was wondering lol if there was some nice bug where it gave you darkness 22:29 and i may have uncovered another less sinister bug also 22:29 Might have to leave it in soko until I get the castle ring though once I run out of torches 22:29 * K2 goes to test 22:30 <@riker> how many torches do you have? just the starting 4 (6?) 22:30 <@riker> or polypiling? 22:31 A few, from a shattered ziggurat in neu quest 22:31 <@riker> oh nice 22:31 3 spares right now 22:32 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:31312 22:33 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) picked up the Book of the Dead, on T:31319 22:37 think i got it JarlEarl 22:37 just a bit more confirmation 22:38 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Hum Fem Law) killed Ahazu, on T:2050 22:39 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:31334 22:42 -!- tonehack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47 <@riker> tarmunora did you give up on the cloak of the unheld one 22:48 -!- Wolfechu has joined #hardfought 22:48 <@riker> also nice daruth hates you 22:48 Yeah 22:48 <@riker> giving you subpar gear 22:48 <@riker> any particular reason why you turned traitor? 22:48 Why not? 22:48 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Hum Fem Law) completed Lokoban, on T:3005 22:48 All of the hedrow arts are pretty meh for me imo, and CotUO isn't thaaaat great 22:48 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:31482 22:48 <@riker> meh fair 22:49 <@riker> black web is nice I guess 22:49 And yeah. Dick move Daruth, giving me a negatively enchanted =oStrength 22:50 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:31505 22:50 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:31506 22:50 <@riker> are you going to go for the tentacle rod or webweaver's crook? 22:50 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 22:50 Hmm 22:50 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) picked up the Amulet of Yendor, on T:31511 22:51 I'm leaning towards the rod, for the casting boost 22:51 <@riker> if you run the crook let me know how it goes I've been considering trying it 22:51 <@riker> yea i feel like it's probably better anyway 22:51 <{Demo}2> how viable a strat in dnh is making a pet wear the amulet of yender? 22:51 <@riker> (the rod) 22:51 Might just stick with vorpal for a while yet though 22:51 <@riker> as viable as it is in ndnh 22:52 <{Demo}2> epic tautology 22:52 [hdf-us] [ndnh] lapis (Acu Hum Fem Law), 15925 points, T:3273, killed by Berith 22:52 ok got it 22:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] NeroOneTrueKing (Ana Inc Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:6425 22:53 <{Demo}2> I feel like the ndnh spirit livelogs are just right 22:54 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:56 <@lapis> i shoulda slept him again 22:57 <@lapis> i did get excal that time thanks to a lucky yendorian cache 22:58 <{Demo}2> excal is so great for acu 22:58 <{Demo}2> kind of weird flavor wise though 22:59 <@lapis> a bit, yeah 22:59 <@lapis> still need to figure out how i'm gonna deal with buer doing 40 hp per turn 23:00 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00 <{Demo}2> could drown him 23:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 23:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 23:00 <{Demo}2> might be a pain to recover his loot though 23:01 <@lapis> ? 23:01 <{Demo}2> summon him over ice 23:01 <{Demo}2> and melt it somehow 23:02 ok JarlEarl 23:02 should be good to go 23:02 sorry bout that 23:02 <@lapis> could ice it with the horn and then dig it out 23:03 <@lapis> would need a wand of fire though, yeah 23:03 EvilHack updated (all servers) 23:03 K2 Glad to help solve an issue! 23:03 <{Demo}2> half dragon with fire, gnome with potion of lava, salamander can fling lava which would melt ice 23:04 Just unfortunate at such a cost. A non-pacifist player I would not have cared about as much. That AC was keeping me alive. Really lucked out on some early pieces of armor. 23:04 <@lapis> i feel like salamanders barely even need to worry 23:05 <@lapis> they could just run into a pool and fling lava anyways 23:05 well.. at least you still have the armor 23:05 it could have been its 'destroy armor' spell instead 23:05 but yeah losing 13 points of AC is harsh 23:05 :/ 23:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Law) killed the invisible Dantrag, on T:20603 23:06 Dantrag? 23:06 JarlEarl thanks for bringing it up quickly 23:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Law) killed the invisible Gromph, on T:20617 23:06 -!- JarlEarl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07 <{Demo}2> salamander acu is kind of tricky actually 23:07 -!- JarlEarl has joined #hardfought 23:07 <{Demo}2> not sure why, just hard to start 23:07 Lost connection. He would cast destroy armor at monsters , too?? 23:09 I was thinking it was kind of sucky he would cast cancellation at monsters. A good chance every piece of armor you find would be +0. 23:09 <@lapis> demo, are any of the spirit artifacts slings? 23:09 Connection is slow --- need to reboot it. 23:09 -!- JarlEarl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10 -!- JarlEarl has joined #hardfought 23:16 ais523: i might edit the first hall of fame bug entry for evilhack just to add a bit more detail, but thats pretty much it 23:18 rofl 23:18 was the "rofl" at reading the rest of the page? :-D 23:18 -!- JuneSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:18 yeah sorta ;) 23:19 [hdf-us] [nh363] PaciFIST (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 477 points, T:4632, killed by an Elvenking 23:19 and also realizing that evilhack has only been out for public consumption for 2 months and I've already made the hall of fame bug list twice 23:19 go big or go home... 23:19 twice seems about the average number in the early days of a variant :-) 23:20 hahah 23:20 bear in mind that vanilla had decades to iron out all the bugs and still managed to get there four times 23:20 \o/ 23:20 its such a complex game though... weird issues are bound to slip through 23:21 K2 So, will a vampire mage switch back and forth between a bat and a vampire as like vanilla, without a ring of protection from shape changers? I used to love V pets in vanilla, really ruined that. 23:21 i'm just glad both of my entries were fixed relatively fast 23:21 JarlEarl: hmm 23:21 They switch in Vanilla and then lose XP. 23:21 then they prob do in evilhack 23:21 the thrown-Vorpal bug was fixed incredibly quickly, we coordinated all the variants (also vanilla!) to fix it more or less simultaneously within a few hours of discovery 23:22 i didnt change vampire shape shifting behavior 23:22 which is a pity, really, as I don't think it was gamebreaking 23:22 ais523 I remember that 23:22 the mad dash to patch all the variants 23:22 Tangles and I were busy that day 23:23 JarlEarl: i'll look into the vampire pet shifting back to animal form bit 23:24 It really is annoying. Not sure they they did that. 23:24 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Yeenoghu, on T:31641 23:25 ok going to bed for real 23:25 gnite all and thanks 23:25 <@riker> cya k2 23:25 Hey! I am play-testing! A vampire mage pet. I was in a "fight" and a Green Dragon popped up next to me! "Where did this come from?" Yikes! Look at it. It is tame. 23:25 Vampire mage will cast summon monsters, too? Whoa. 23:26 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 23:30 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tarmunora (Hdr-Ran Dro Mal Law) averted death, on T:22800 23:33 -!- zombifier has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39 -!- Pinkbeast has joined #hardfought 23:39 [hdf-us] [nh343] dmikemiller1 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:32513 23:40 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 23:44 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45 [hdf-us] [ndnh] Tmasher (Ana Dwa Fem Cha) killed Axus, on T:8266 23:55 Is there a way to turn off mouse support, even if temporarily? Using PuTTY. I clicked on my mouse to make my game window active (in Windows) and I really messed up my game (I assume it is probably a PuTTY thing). The click even changed a bunch of options... :( 23:55 [hdf-us] [nh363] RedArrow (Val Hum Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:5711