00:10 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed +2 grayswandir", on T:38949 00:36 <@luxidream> stenno2: so apparently adeon has sub2 tourist lol 00:37 <@luxidream> what is this wizardry 00:40 <@luxidream> he wished for orb and they start with magic mapping 00:40 <@luxidream> I guess 00:40 <@luxidream> but still wut 01:05 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:08 I have no memory of non-valkyrie speedruns 01:08 but I guess I might have something like that 01:08 I think occasionally I start a game and didn't intend to speedrun 01:09 it just kind of happened 01:09 this is weird, I can't ssh to hardfought.org 01:09 ipv4 or 6 01:09 but I can ping it. 01:09 <{Demo}3> firewall being mean? 01:09 <{Demo}3> 22 out blocked? 01:10 I can ssh to work, that's how I'm on IRC 01:10 other sites are fine. Must be upstream. 01:10 <{Demo}3> ok then 01:11 someone try turning the internet off and back on for me, mkay? 01:11 <{Demo}3> firewall (on the ec2 instance) being mean? 01:11 <{Demo}3> 22 in blocked? 01:11 <{Demo}3> or can other ppl hit it? 01:11 lux just finished a game so I assume it's fine elsewhere 01:12 <{Demo}3> :( 01:13 oh wow, there's something fucky going on for sure. 01:17 yup, it's clink. I can VPN to work and everything is lightning fast, but directly out of my network it's shit. 01:28 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 01:43 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:01 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 02:17 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:54 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 04:13 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 04:17 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:29 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:07 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:52 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 05:52 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:05 -!- lel has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:07 -!- lel has joined #hardfought 06:41 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 06:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 06:52 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought 07:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ 07:09 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:09 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 07:25 oof 07:37 indeed 07:46 y 07:51 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:55 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 08:28 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2] 08:33 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) defeated Croesus, on T:40596 08:42 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:3190 08:49 morning 08:58 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought 08:59 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:06 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:07 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:07 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) defeated the Master of Thieves, on T:42512 09:20 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2839 points, T:5110, killed by a pony 09:42 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 424 points, T:1565, poisoned by a rotted coyote corpse 09:48 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 09:57 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Val Dwa Fem Law) murdered TaterTot, her faithful little dog, on T:1500 10:05 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 594 points, T:2275, killed by a bat, while praying 10:09 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 7 points, T:38, killed by a bolt of fire 10:11 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 510 points, T:692, killed by a straw golem, while praying 10:21 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 440 points, T:908, killed by a kobold lord 10:22 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 13 points, T:102, killed by a water moccasin 10:25 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed rustproof +2 Mjollnir", on T:122 10:50 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 4004 points, T:3062, killed by a dwarf king 10:53 [hdf-us] [fh] Stale16 (catthedd) (Val Hum Fem Neu) genocided class 'Z', on T:26747 11:02 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) averted death, on T:1430 11:02 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 657 points, T:1447, killed by a homunculus, while sleeping 11:12 [hdf-us] [nh362] gatherer (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 66 points, T:240, killed by a kobold 11:17 -!- Lewisflame has joined #hardfought 11:17 -!- Lewisflame has left #hardfought 11:29 [hdf-us] [fh] Stale16 (catthedd) (Val Hum Fem Neu) defeated Medusa, on T:28517 11:44 [hdf-us] [nh362] oh6 (Hea Gno Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:83668 11:44 [hdf-us] [nh362] oh6 (Hea Gno Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:83687 11:45 [hdf-us] [nh362] oh6 (Hea Gno Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:83706 11:50 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law), 538 points, T:1683, killed by a wand 11:51 [hdf-us] [nh362] oh6 (Hea Gno Fem Neu) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:83828 11:52 [hdf-us] [nh362] oh6 (Hea Gno Fem Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:83831 11:57 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon her by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:8825 12:05 <@carlarc> if you die in a random dungeon level with the amulet is it still saved as a bones file? 12:05 Yes. 12:05 Can you find the amulet in such a bones pile? No. 12:06 <@carlarc> could you theoretically get a bones file in 1-4 thats filled with nasties 12:06 Yes (by many mechanisms) 12:07 <@carlarc> that would suck 12:08 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:10443 12:08 A much more common way for that to happen is the chaotic who summons Yeenoghu then smacks him with Stormy 12:13 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:11912 12:15 [hdf-us] [fh] Stale16 (catthedd) (Val Hum Fem Neu) genocided class 'V', on T:29754 12:24 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) had Dragonbane bestowed upon her by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:15601 12:28 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) was crowned "The Hand of Elbereth" by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:18756 12:33 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 12:35 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased magic marker", on T:22036 12:40 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class h), on T:23500 12:45 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:25544 12:51 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:26611 12:53 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 12:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 12:53 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed charging", on T:26924 12:56 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed wand of polymorph", on T:27391 12:59 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) polymorphed her first object, on T:27581 13:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) genocided class L, on T:27908 13:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) genocided class ;, on T:27909 13:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) genocided class R, on T:27909 13:04 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed ring of conflict", on T:28408 13:08 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Nalzok, on T:29027 13:08 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:29028 13:19 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) bribed Asmodeus with 5 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:31532 13:19 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:31589 13:21 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) bribed Baalzebub with 3 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:31952 13:22 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:32150 13:22 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:32151 13:24 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) killed Orcus, on T:32353 13:29 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:33425 13:29 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:33427 13:30 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fireproof +2 helm of opposite alignment", on T:33525 13:31 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:33704 13:33 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Cha) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:33860 13:33 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:33863 13:35 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:34476 13:38 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:35587 13:43 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Cha) killed the invisible Famine, on T:36024 13:43 [hdf-us] [nh362] Luxidream (Pri Hum Fem Law), 1249900 points, T:36051, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nh361/dumplog/1549212640.nh361.txt 13:44 <{Demo}3> yeehaw 13:44 time? 13:45 <@luxidream> actually sub2! wow 13:45 <@luxidream> 1:51:46 13:45 * aosdict gives Luxidream a wow (0:3) named TNNT Trophy 13:48 YANI (ritual spells): Given a number of items made of a golem's material totaling over a certain weight, create tame golem(s). 13:53 [hdf-us] [gh] hothraxxa (Rog Orc Fem Cha) became literate by engraving "test", on T:3093 13:57 argh another soko death 13:57 [hdf-us] [nh362] Wolfechu (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (disenchanter), on T:7295 13:58 <{Demo}3> soko slammed 13:58 <{Demo}3> giant mummy and zombie are above curve imo 13:58 <@luxidream> it's even worse during midnight 13:59 not necessarily if you find soko stairs on d9 13:59 <@luxidream> every day for an hour undead monsters suddenly become unbalanced 13:59 giant zombie is what, 9? 13:59 my large dog was in the doorway fighting other monsters and the Z just sneaked past 14:00 or dl10, even 14:00 <{Demo}3> hmm they are 8 14:00 <{Demo}3> and a lot stronger than other 8 like stalker 14:00 <{Demo}3> or hill giant 14:00 <{Demo}3> or black naga 14:00 YANI: Birth option (not changeable after start of game) that disables all time based effects. (However, it would be pretty optimal to keep this on all the time unless more good time-based effects were added.) 14:01 <{Demo}3> or large mimic lol 14:01 like rotting of corpses? I'd sign up for that 14:01 <@luxidream> aosdict: there's currently full moon 14:01 !pom 14:01 raisse: The moon is new for 3 more days. 14:01 <{Demo}3> full moon and high noon 14:01 yeah that's not enough 14:01 NEW moon ^ 14:01 maybe high noon should be a thing? 14:01 <@luxidream> sounds like a slashem thing 14:02 <@carlarc> high noon gives you +10 to-hit with one-handed ranged weapons 14:02 but it would still have to be pretty esoteric 14:02 <@luxidream> they actually have guns there 14:02 [hdf-us] [nh362] Wolfechu (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 6975 points, T:8286, killed by a winter wolf 14:02 because if you did something like double damage to undead at high noon, then it would just be too useful to wait until then 14:03 <@luxidream> well mr. optimal only plays during full moon during the day 14:03 <{Demo}3> honestly midnight undead boost is dumb 14:04 <@Webmant> double damage undead is too much tbh 14:04 <{Demo}3> ive stopped playing many many times because of it 14:04 <{Demo}3> to wait the hr out 14:04 <@Webmant> Not to mention the gremlin buff in tandem with it 14:04 <@luxidream> it's ridiculous 14:04 <@luxidream> giant zombies go to 4d8 x2 14:06 @luxidream: it's quite common for people to save to avoid gremlins at night, then when they start playing again, forget what they were doing and kill the character as a result 14:06 <@luxidream> arguably, if you're late enough to be worried about gremlins, you shouldn't be quitting 14:06 so I'm not convinced that avoiding time-based effects is optimal (this is similar to amulets of life saving, which are "suboptimal" for many strategies but they'll help humans much more than any alternative for that slot) 14:06 Anyone familiar with splicehack know what is a good MR wish that isn't GDSM? 14:07 (lawful, if artiwishing might be better than MMoM) 14:07 <@luxidream> MRtifact? 14:07 I still contend that an amulet of reflection saves your life more effectively than an amulet of life saving does. 14:07 at least more than once 14:07 no new armor that confers MR 14:08 <@luxidream> hex dragon scale mail, it's exactly the same thing but fancier 14:08 * hothraxxa stands under raisse's banner 14:08 how's it fancier 14:08 <{Demo}3> does it give curse res? 14:08 <@luxidream> it's called hex dragon scale mail instead of gray dragon scale mail 14:08 raisse: even post-Castle? 14:08 <@luxidream> no it just gives MR 14:08 nowadays if I don't have reflection by the Castle, I typically don't bother, I just genocide D 14:09 <@luxidream> ais523: I don't like doing that, wands of lightning are common as an attack item 14:09 giving dragonbane reflection is a little weird flavorwise but perfect gameplay wise 14:09 ais523: you have a point but I still don't wear life saving because it makes me play even more sloppily than I already tend to do, and then my life might get saved ONCE but I'm not out of the dangerous situation 14:09 * hothraxxa stands under luxidream's banner 14:10 I can't remember a late-game death that wouldn't immediately been repeated if I'd worn life saving 14:10 <{Demo}3> lifesaving is always the best option for me 14:10 er, there should be a "have" in that sentence 14:10 after "immediately", optimally 14:10 raisse and luxidream come together under the banner of luxidraisse 14:10 <@luxidream> I can count a lot of dead valkyries that would still be alive if I could have worn life saving instead of reflection 14:10 raisse: for me it's typically things like accidentally removing all my MR sources, or typos 14:10 <@luxidream> it's a great resource 14:11 raisse: show us on the doll where you touched the cocktrice 14:11 +a 14:11 if you give me a cockatrice doll, sure 14:11 <{Demo}3> i choke to death too much cause im dumb 14:11 <{Demo}3> aols helps with that a lot 14:11 You touch the cockatrice doll. You turn to stone... 14:11 and a pair of gloves of course 14:11 no, that nymph over there has a pair of gloves 14:11 those are mine! 14:11 <@carlarc> d - a pair of fingerless gloves 14:12 <@carlarc> here you go 14:12 ais523: perhaps the larger problem is that out of the nine amulets in the game we're only really debating two? :) 14:12 ESP is nice too 14:12 magical breathing is a nice utility amulet 14:12 <{Demo}3> aols is my only option 14:13 well, strangulation and restful sleep aren't the sort of thing you'd put in an asc kit 14:13 <@luxidream> you mean the other noob traps? 14:13 poison is useful in the early game 14:13 and versus poison is useful in the early game, while you're still getting poison res 14:13 <@carlarc> magical breathing is good for blanking and eating later on 14:13 change in very niche circumstances 14:13 how do you blank an amulet? 14:13 well, you don't wear change long-term 14:13 because you can't 14:13 <@carlarc> blanking by jumping into water 14:13 it's more of a consumable than equipment 14:13 <@luxidream> carlarc: that's literally for flex though, has almost no impact on most games 14:13 mb is for eating ginats when you don't have/want a tinning kit 14:13 change is funny but not really good for anything since you can also get polymorph 14:13 <@carlarc> well it's still worth it to eat it 14:13 giants i really can't type 14:14 <@carlarc> even if its probably not gonna do anything 14:14 <@luxidream> why does change break? 14:14 <@carlarc> what else are you going to do with those 10 amulets versus poison 14:14 <@luxidream> maybe it should just degrade BUC 14:14 <@luxidream> @carlarc polypile 14:14 I read that as "gnats" and wondered (a) which variant they were in and (b) why you'd want to eat them 14:14 <@luxidream> to get aols 14:14 [hdf-us] [nh362] oh6 (Hea Gno Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:84487 14:14 unchanging is great early below dl8 14:14 unchanging is basically there to allow a challenge run / side strategy, it's not the sort of thing you'd expect to be part of a normal playthrough of the game 14:14 <@carlarc> what if you already have 7 aols though 14:14 I'm a fan of AoC changing your gender for as long as you wear it, and then reverting once you get it off. 14:14 <@carlarc> unchanging is nice as fake MR early on 14:14 oh, unchanging in natural form, I didn't think of that 14:14 <@luxidream> then you win already who cares 14:14 <@carlarc> but its the rarest amulet 14:15 I found out the other day that my uncursed unidentified amulet was unchanging when I stepped on a green ^ 14:15 ESP is a powerful effect but you can get it other ways too, and those fit better into an asc kit 14:15 i've done that too 14:15 <{Demo}3> yeah ive used unchanging early game 14:15 <{Demo}3> to avoid poly traps 14:15 maybe magical breathing should be a ring? 14:16 it works more like a ring than an amulet in what it dose 14:16 *does 14:16 ok are we talking about amulets or ascension kit amulets? 14:16 (i.e. you swap to it in special cases) 14:16 you lot disparaging all other amulets still won't make me wear life saving 14:16 <{Demo}3> then when u die i will remind u that u didnt have to 14:16 i'll wear it but usually only if i am also wearing sdsm 14:16 Some variants add amulet of flying into the mix :-) 14:16 <@luxidream> flying is a really good utility amulet 14:16 <{Demo}3> i like dnh cause it adds flying boots instead 14:16 <{Demo}3> so i dont have to not have an aols 14:17 flying is actually a great amulet and makes for a hard choice 14:17 <@luxidream> you won't be wearing it half the time but it's great 14:17 If you wanted to forego speed boots, you could go with water walking. 14:17 <@luxidream> just to have around 14:17 water walking and stack haste self spells 14:18 <@luxidream> speed boots aren't worth a wish, so I don't think it's really forgoing anything 14:18 <@carlarc> the problem with flying boots is that they're just water walking+ 14:18 I agree that amulet of flying would fit well into the set of amulets 14:18 <{Demo}3> not in dnh, in dnh flying makes you immune to a few monster spells and theres a hell of a lot more lava 14:18 <@luxidream> no they're lev+ 14:18 <@luxidream> which is amazing 14:18 <{Demo}3> flying in general is nuts 14:18 @luxidream: I'm surprised by that statement, if you have a vanilla-ish amount of wishes speed boots normally scrape in at #5 or #6 for me 14:18 <@carlarc> oh right 14:18 <@carlarc> forgot about that 14:19 <{Demo}3> speed boots in vanilla are kind of a big deal, especially if you havent managed to acquire intrinsic speed yet 14:19 <@luxidream> ais523: you can just use speed potions on air or dangerous places 14:19 <{Demo}3> gop are also pretty massive early game 14:19 <@luxidream> but at castle they aren't worth it 14:19 not for spellcasters though 14:19 @luxidream: I'm unlikely to find that many speed potions and don't like te weight of carrying them 14:20 ais523: I think magical breathing (water breathing) is actually a ring in D&D? 14:20 <{Demo}3> yes for spellcasters 14:20 <@luxidream> in vanilla no one is a spellcaster 14:20 <{Demo}3> ^^ 14:20 <{Demo}3> at least early game 14:20 <@luxidream> wizard with gop armors up and stabs people 14:20 <{Demo}3> gop early game for a wizard would be awesome 14:20 that takes all the fun out of wizard 14:20 aosdict: in D&D pretty much any effect can be put into any slot if you really want to 14:20 if I want to play a tank, I play a tank 14:21 <{Demo}3> +3 tohit, +6 dmg 14:21 <{Demo}3> +6 whole dmg!!! 14:21 <@luxidream> ais523: I just think the effect is quite marginal compared to the HP and AC you can get from a marker 14:21 <@luxidream> or a wand of polymorph, assuming a normal game with lots of loot 14:22 aosdict: however, the only water breathing items tht has been statted out on d20srd.org is actutally a helmet: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#helmofUnderwaterAction 14:22 <@luxidream> it seems to be a popular wish, but popular != good 14:22 ais523: ring of elemental command (water) also qualifies 14:23 but I digress 14:23 @luxidream: markers are slow and require paper (which I wouldn't bother to carry), polymorph requires polyfodder (which I wouldn't have), and very-fast is a percentage defensive boost which, past a certain point, helps more than the additive defensive boost from AC 14:24 aosdict: that's a rather more versatile item (especially as it has a water walking effect too, which would be mutually exclusive in NetHack) 14:24 <@luxidream> how are markers slow? slow in realtime, or slow in turncount? 14:25 [hdf-us] [spl] aosdict (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "the blessed Magic Mirror of Merlin", on T:16202 14:25 yay MR 14:25 mostly realtime; they're also a bit slow in turncount but unless you're hyper-optimising you won't really notice 14:25 <{Demo}3> mr sucks so much 14:26 <{Demo}3> cause its so needed 14:26 <{Demo}3> but doesnt make you stronger 14:26 <@luxidream> I wish for markers all the time in realtime speedruns, it's one of the most important resources 14:26 <@luxidream> they're necessary to recharge the wand of death as well as write magic mapping scrolls 14:26 I escaped Lord Surtur but failed to remember he has the Bell of Opening with him. *facepalm* 14:27 I can see how wishing for /mapping/ would be cost/time-effective 14:27 gametime speedruns wouldn't wish for speed boots either, btw, but that's because they don't give you /enough/ movement speed, and the fastest polyforms can't wear them 14:28 <@luxidream> but in realtime speedruns, after charging/genocide/MR/reflection/conflict/levitation/marker I usually don't have much room for luxury wishes 14:29 <@luxidream> and helm of opposite alignment 14:29 <@luxidream> that is very necessary as well 14:30 I'm the sort of person who lives on percentage boosts 14:30 Orb of Fate + boots of speed help your defence enough to ascend at AC 0 (if you have some reliable healing to hand; I often refer to the "oLS as the "amulet of full healing"), so I wouldn't really see it as a luxury, necessarily 14:32 <@luxidream> I don't think I could forgo any of the above for speed boots, though. 14:34 you can often get some of that without wishes 14:34 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 14:34 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 14:34 e.g. if you're collecting enough scrolls to have a decent amount paper, there's likely to be a charging scroll or two among them 14:34 and there's often a silver dragon at the Castle that you can kill for scales 14:34 (of course, there may be speed boots at the Castle storerooms, too) 14:36 that said, I'm used to 3.4.3 where speedrunners would get both conflict and MR in the same wish… 14:37 <@luxidream> and from what I've played with very poor AC, the orb of fate is the most substantial upgrade. I don't notice enough of a difference between speedrun characters with speed boots and without defensively 14:38 [hdf-us] [nh362] oh6 (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 2782523 points, T:84844, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/o/oh6/nh361/dumplog/1548933881.nh361.txt 14:38 <@luxidream> sure, valkyrie can ascend at 0 AC 14:38 <@luxidream> but they can also do that without speed boots 14:41 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) defeated Medusa, on T:47478 14:44 grats oh6 14:45 thanks stenno 14:46 whoops, just realized I left the orb of fate from karnac's bones behind 14:46 @luxidream have you won crawl yet? 14:46 ah no 14:46 oof would've been nice :P 14:46 wait so 14:46 <{Demo}3> oof 14:47 if a lawful character dies with the oof, is it neutral in the bones? 14:47 well, just for bragging rights - with my usual absurd overpreparation it wasn't necessary at all 14:47 it's neutral for anyone else I think, yes 14:47 right 14:47 <{Demo}3> yeah artifact hack is done per game 14:47 <{Demo}3> where it hacks artifact alignments to be different if your role requires it 14:47 * stenno displays large knowledge gaps regarding basic nethack rules 14:51 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 14:53 <@luxidream> stenno: no 14:53 but you've played it, right? 14:53 <@luxidream> a little bit 14:53 fair 14:54 <@luxidream> the rest of ootc roped me into the crawl tournament in less than a week 14:54 <@luxidream> so I have to learn it by then 14:59 gogogo 15:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 4608 points, T:3098, killed by a leocrotta 15:01 everybody told me the dcss is much more easy to get into than nethack 15:01 yet i have only failed so far 15:02 <@luxidream> oh, you haven't won either? 15:03 <@luxidream> I've been playing some braindead melee role. died due to idiocy a couple of times 15:03 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 15:03 yeah MiBE 15:03 anyway bbiab 15:04 stenno: there are a lot of DCSS fans who don't realise quite how problematic many parts of the game are (for new players or in general) 15:04 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 15:04 I tried to write a DCSS bot once and gave up when I realised that pretty much every menu has different rendering, and often even different controls… 15:04 but dcss bots ascended long before bothack 15:05 -!- raisse is now known as Guest20137 15:05 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 15:05 they don't play the game the same way as humans 15:06 rather, they hook into the game the same way a custom windowport would, via an ApI 15:06 *API 15:06 -!- Guest20137 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15 stenno, dcss has less need for spoilers but it's very unforgiving of tactical mistakes 15:16 jilles: the spoilers needed in NetHack and in DCSS are of different natures 15:17 NetHack spoilers are mostly about what attacks monsters have and what purposes items have, DCSS spoilers are mostly about strategic/tactical considerations you have to know about before the situations come up and can't reasonably guess 15:20 <@luxidream> in nethack you can escape pretty much any situation in 1 turn 15:21 DCSS intentionally aims to have no good escape items 15:22 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 15:22 <@luxidream> I'm surprised how useless some of the items in nethack become when you take out their interesting interactions 15:22 <@luxidream> like a wand of polymorph in DCSS? 15:23 to polymorph ugly things into a different colour 15:25 on the other hand, attack wands actually do useful amounts of damage (later on, with some Evo training) 15:28 unforgiving regarding tactical mistakes sounds really good imo :P 15:36 hmm i wonder if i should make an extra wiki page for vt_tiledata in 3.6.1 as it differs from the original 3.4.3 patch 15:37 probably the most important tactic is luring monsters back to safe areas to fight them 15:37 in dcss i sometimes had that feeling of helplessness, when i was attacked by a monster which was faster than me 15:38 like, you can't get away, and there aren't really good escape items 15:39 sometimes you can get away if you notice the fast monster quickly 15:40 do monsters still chase you once you're out of their LOS? 15:40 depends on their intelligence and your stealth 15:40 alright 15:41 if you're out of sight, they'll forget about you after some time 15:41 nice 15:42 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed bag of holding", on T:49899 15:43 with characters with poor stealth, I can also be afraid of going too far from the stairs 15:48 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 15:48 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:51 <@carlarc> why do tins have dungeon level-dependant contents 15:51 <@carlarc> you'd think the gnomish mines wouldn't have a lot of gnome meat tins 15:52 <@carlarc> thats kinda fucked up if you think about it 15:53 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 15:54 maybe it's tins left from other adventurers? 15:56 -!- stenno has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3] 15:57 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 15:57 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 15:57 -!- raisse is now known as Guest15422 15:57 <@luxidream> alright I'm back at lair 15:57 <@luxidream> let's not die this time 15:58 you playing dcss now? 15:58 <@luxidream> yea 15:58 gl! 15:59 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 boots of speed", on T:50193 15:59 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06 carlarc: lol! When I imagine the gnomes in the mines I picture the antagonist from the cult classic Leprechaun. Fanged, deranged, murderous, little pointy hat wearing cretins. 16:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] carlarc (Bin Orc Fem Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:4616 16:09 [hdf-us] [nh362] AlbertB (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 460 points, T:1555, killed by a small mimic 16:11 luxi> ha, what are you playing? 16:11 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 16:12 bouquet: no, those are the actual leprechauns 16:12 uhm. 16:12 is mdonais mike donais??? 16:12 stenno: I don't know and don't know why that might be significant 16:13 well. 16:14 eh, maybe it's not him 16:14 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:15 tru 16:15 There must be many M. Donaises 16:16 found a new YAFM I haven't seen, when (a)pplying "-": The Grand Master always said you needed to apply yourself! 16:18 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 194 points, T:1166, poisoned by a rotted yellow mold corpse 16:18 stenno: PS re that feeling of desperation, part of the trick is not getting there (the hard bit) but also unlike in NetHack, potions of desperation often work out. 16:18 -!- bobbydurrett has joined #hardfought 16:19 potions of desperation as in emergency-quaff? 16:20 Yes. 16:20 yeah i heard that in general, in dcss use-testing is much more safe 16:20 as long as its BUCed 16:21 <@luxidream> I'm playing mibe, is there a better role to learn with 16:21 mibe is like the dwarf valk of dcss lol 16:21 That's also true (there's no BUC, either), but specifically desperation potions work - you might get heal wounds, might, haste, lignification, agility, curing... 16:21 <@luxidream> I know but since I'm new, I still die anyway due to not knowing how to identify threats/where I should be 16:22 yani: potion of desperation: level teleports to dlvl1 and resets level to 1, destroys all armour and items 16:22 <@luxidream> I just walked into spider nest and got destroyed lmao 16:22 MiBE is good; you can kill almost anything with berserk, but sometimes you get killed by berserking at the wrong time and it running out 16:22 <@carlarc> new speedrun tactic, quaff potion of desperation in ascension run 16:23 <@luxidream> have a box on DL1 with everything you need to win in it 16:23 But I'd also recommend DDFi^Makhleb and er also yes this isn't ##crawl :-/ 16:23 -!- bobbydurrett has quit [Client Quit] 16:23 <@luxidream> it's okay to be offtopic in hardfought 16:23 oh6: so like a terrible cursed scroll of tele? :P 16:24 <{Demo}3> hdf doesnt have a topic 16:24 <{Demo}3> according to k2 16:24 <{Demo}3> oh fuck i pinged him oops 16:24 <@luxidream> even better 16:24 i think i played a DDFi once or twice, and then there was some blinking imp which was fire resistant 16:24 stenno: Crimson imp, and that's a FE not a Fi 16:24 oh :x 16:25 Fi hits monsters with sticks, FE sets them on fire 16:25 whats 'fi' then? 16:25 Fighter. 16:25 oh. lol 16:26 Your basic heavy-armour monster-whacker, inasmuch as classes force you to do anything. 16:26 right 16:26 <@carlarc> "You see a kobold dropping out of your pack!" 16:27 <@carlarc> for some reason it never struck me that nethack kobolds are born from eggs 16:27 were you carrying a figurine? 16:28 <@carlarc> egg 16:29 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 gauntlets of power", on T:50198 16:29 [hdf-us] [gh] hothraxxa (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 8665 points, T:5959, killed by a dwarvish lady, while praying 16:30 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +2 elven leather helm", on T:50202 16:31 kobolds aren't oviparous 16:32 luxi: I sometimes lurk in the DCSS Discord, too, FWIW 16:33 <@carlarc> well if they aren't how did one come out of my pack when i picked up an egg 200 turns ago 16:33 update the wiki then 16:34 or stop eating the violet fungi 16:34 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "magic marker", on T:50288 16:34 Don't update the wiki without checking the source for the variant you are playing 16:35 <@carlarc> yeah im playing dnethack, might have been changed there 16:35 pretty sure kobolds have belly buttons 16:37 <@luxidream> DCSS discord server? 16:37 <@luxidream> let me look into that 16:37 In dn kobolds are MB_OVIPAROUS 16:37 luxi: It's on the main roguelikes one that the rld IRC/discord gateway runs off 16:45 oh dnh 16:49 stenno: [backscroll] isn't asking for unforgiveness of tactical mistakes asking for the headroom to be lowered? 16:57 [hdf-us] [xnh] oh6 (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 4 points, T:1502, killed by a kitten 16:58 <@carlarc> new low sore 16:58 aosdict: yeah i guess 16:58 maybe it should be more forgiving in the early game >_> 16:59 [hdf-us] [xnh] oh6 (Sam Hum Fem Law), 0 points, T:1104, killed by a bolt of cold 17:10 <@carlarc> newer low score 17:19 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:25 [hdf-us] [xnh] oh6 (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 2960 points, T:2078, killed by a giant spider 17:26 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 17:27 [hdf-us] [un] Delraven (Cav Hum Mal Law), 3037 points, T:1879, killed by a plains centaur 17:30 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 17:31 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 17:34 I forgot I had xnethack set to polyinit:red mold 17:36 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo (Val Dwa Fem Law), 124 points, T:13531, killed by a kobold zombie 17:36 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 64 points, T:2385, died of starvation, while fainted 17:37 <{Demo}3> uh hmm 17:38 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:39 <[Demo]> aosdict: i started a game as a blue jelly in polyinit, hit s once, and now the game wont ever end, can you get the devteam to fix this with unchanging in vanilla 17:40 lol you have 0 movement points 17:41 rip 17:41 <{Demo}3> i thought this was dealt with in 3.6 17:41 -!- Gaelan has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:41 dealt with how? 17:41 -!- Gaelan has joined #hardfought 17:42 <{Demo}3> prevented 17:42 <{Demo}3> from being possible to have a game just permastuck like this 17:42 <{Demo}3> if i hang up will it kill the game process for me? 17:42 <{Demo}3> cause i dont wanna get turbod on by k2 again for using so much cpu 17:43 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Neu) had Giantslayer bestowed upon her by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:13148 17:44 [hdf-us] [nh362] captmayhem69 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 364 points, T:2048, killed by a gecko, while frozen by a monster's gaze 17:44