00:02 -!- kozet has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02 -!- pellsson has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02 -!- rld has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02 -!- jonadab has quit [*.net *.split] 00:03 -!- rld1 is now known as rld 00:04 -!- pellsson has joined #hardfought 00:14 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 00:18 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 00:52 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:03 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 01:50 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:57 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 02:27 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined #hardfought 02:29 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:35 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 02:36 [hdf-us] [nh362] Menche (Mon Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:11040 02:36 yay, ammy of reflection 02:55 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:12 reflectoban bestoban 03:47 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:53 -!- remirol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:53 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 03:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v lorimer] by ChanServ 04:15 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:24 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:33 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 04:41 [hdf-us] [nh362] arnibald (Rog Hum Mal Cha) was chosen to steal souls for the Glory of Kos, on T:26811 05:08 [hdf-us] [nh362] arnibald (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:27872 05:19 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:32 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 05:37 Mandevil: do you have a problem with xlogfiles that switch from : to TAB in the same xlogfile? 05:43 bhaak: I think I don't. 05:44 I have just checked, I do the little heuristics on per-line basis. 05:45 I intend to finally switch to TAB in unnethack's xlogfile. just forget to do it when I increased the version to 5.3.2 05:46 Should be completely fine for me. 05:48 okay, great 05:53 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14 @v?gelatinous cube 06:14 gelatinous cube (b) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 6 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison acid petrification | Confers: fire cold sleep shock | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 8 | Attacks: 2d4 touch paralyze, 1d4 passive paralyze | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, mindless, vegan 06:14 @v?black pudding 06:14 black pudding (P) | Lvl: 10 | Diff: 12 | Spd: 6 | Res: cold shock poison acid petrification | Confers: cold shock poison | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 6 | Attacks: 3d8 bite corrosion, 0d0 passive corrosion | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, amorphous, breathless, mindless 06:17 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:38 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:52 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:05 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:10 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:15 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 07:18 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 486 points, T:666, killed by a gnome lord 07:20 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:28 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 07:28 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 1822 points, T:766, killed by a gnome lord 07:42 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Rog Inf Fem Cha), 136 points, T:763, exterminated by a kitten called Taco 07:44 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 07:46 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2] 07:49 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:56 [hdf-us] [nh362] oh6 (Rog Orc Mal Cha) killed Orcus, on T:50111 07:56 [hdf-us] [nh362] every (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:46708 07:57 K2: will look into it 07:57 FIQ: Message from K2 at 2019-01-08 16:52 EST: a_boudelia reports 'monsters drinking potions lead to effects done on the player, making the save file to be corrupted' gets 'extract_nobj: object lost in mkobj.c:1626' when trying to load the save. 08:03 [hdf-us] [nh362] every (Rog Orc Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a red dragon, on T:46873 08:05 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 4881 points, T:2314, killed by a hill orc 08:14 shafted 08:15 Shafted and elmiminated. 08:19 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 08:21 -!- Tarmunora has left #hardfought 08:25 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 2902 points, T:2218, killed by a hill orc 08:31 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Rog Inf Fem Cha), 6656 points, T:5127, slain by a watch captain 08:33 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:45 -!- Porkman has joined #hardfought 08:45 -!- uruwi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 4679 points, T:1916, killed by a gnome lord 09:01 !lastgame 09:01 Tangles: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/l/luxor/slashem/dumplog/1547040406.slashem.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/c/carlarc/slashem/dumplog/1546940608.slashem.txt | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/T/Tangles/splicehack/dumplog/1547040162.splice.txt 09:15 morning 09:19 Morning, K2. 09:30 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 09:32 school cancelled today because of ice/snow. blaaaaahhhh 09:32 working from home 09:33 \o/ 09:33 Here it's snowing all day too. 09:33 But it's too warm, so it's melting right away. 09:34 Still glad to be here by train. 09:35 raods arent that bad, but if the school buses cant run on the backroads here, they'll make it a snow day 09:35 and pretty much every road in this little town is a backroad 09:35 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 15619 points, T:4851, killed by a tunnel worm 09:37 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:47 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 09:48 [hdf-us] [nh362] Xaleth (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (arch-lich), on T:5467 09:48 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 09:49 [hdf-us] [nh362] Xaleth (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:5476 09:51 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:56 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:07 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 10:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 10:20 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:35 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought 10:39 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:46 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Bar Vam Fem Cha), 2389 points, T:1665, quit 11:10 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 11:40 [hdf-us] [nh362] gunnervi (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:14010 12:13 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 12:17 -!- phinxy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17 -!- phinxy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:18 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Rog Inf Fem Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a copper spherical amulet on an altar, on T:4163 12:24 -!- uruwi has joined #hardfought 12:31 [hdf-us] [nh362] Xaleth (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:13399 12:31 [hdf-us] [nh362] Xaleth (Val Dwa Fem Law), 47172 points, T:13399, quit 12:33 [hdf-us] [sp] k2 (Wiz Dwa Mal Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping an arrow on an altar, on T:3086 12:38 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Rog Inf Fem Cha), 4968 points, T:5809, sent to the grave by a gray unicorn 12:47 -!- oh6 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Rog Inf Fem Cha), 573 points, T:1807, mowed down by a gnome lord 13:02 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 299 points, T:742, killed by a water demon 13:04 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 192 points, T:284, killed by a sewer rat 13:13 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Car Inf Fem Cha), 609 points, T:1694, killed by trying to drink lava 13:15 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 18 points, T:124, overpowered by a jackal 13:19 [hdf-us] [un] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 1003 points, T:3201, killed by a giant spider 13:19 -!- raisse has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:22 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 492 points, T:1886, killed by a dwarf 13:23 -!- uruwi has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24 -!- uruwi has joined #hardfought 13:27 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 134 points, T:447, killed by a water moccasin, while reading a book 13:27 [hdf-us] [spl] Delraven (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:47572 13:29 [hdf-us] [spl] Noah (Rog Gul Fem Cha), 497 points, T:2113, inhumed by a red mold 13:29 <@carlarc> did i just manage to get every single resistance from a gelatinous cube in spork or are they like, temporary 13:29 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/532627029292744704/unknown.png 13:30 carlacc: Yes, you got them. Did you get them at 100%? No. 13:30 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:377 13:31 [hdf-us] [spl] Delraven (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:47583 13:32 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "blessed Orb of Fate", on T:378 13:32 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 92 points, T:378, killed by touching The Orb of Fate 13:32 <@shadowsapex> Ouch 13:33 ouch is right 13:34 <@carlarc> ahhh okay 13:35 @carlarc you get things sorted out for online play? 13:43 Evil Patch Idea: Anything you wish for under 5000 turns blasts you as if it were an intelligent artifact. 13:43 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 1010 points, T:1005, poisoned by a dart 13:44 [hdf-us] [sp] k2 (Wiz Dwa Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:6863 13:45 <@carlarc> @K2 mostly, still haven't gotten the number buttons to work as directional keys but i make do with the garbled hykl keys 13:45 <@carlarc> oh whoops 13:46 <@carlarc> currently playing a barbarian on sporkhack 13:49 ok 13:55 -!- uruwi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:57 [hdf-us] [sp] k2 (Wiz Dwa Mal Neu), 13026 points, T:7465, killed by a werewolf 13:57 that was dumb 13:58 dwarven wizard? 13:58 yeah 13:58 could have totally prevented that death 13:59 splicehack 13:59 but no, i had to get one more swing in 13:59 hah I've died that way a lot 13:59 Menche: spork, not splice 13:59 oh 13:59 though splice might let you play dwarven wiz? dunno 14:00 no bones... shame 14:00 would have been a really good bones 14:00 all my good stuff was stashed in a box by an altar same level 14:06 * Menche has encountered the first Yendorian Army serviceman, a seargent 14:07 zapped me with a wand of lightning, fortunately I had just retrieved the Reflectoban :3 14:11 K2 you're still not skilled at wands right? 14:11 no 14:16 ha, the data.base Schroedinger's Cat entry is "s*d*g*r cat", so you can trigger it by looking up stuff like "semidagger cat" 14:22 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 4140 points, T:2347, killed by an invisible stalker 14:23 -!- kozet has joined #hardfought 14:26 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu) murdered Catnip, his faithful kitten, on T:125 14:26 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 107 points, T:171, killed by a goblin 14:32 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 328 points, T:774, killed by a dwarf 14:36 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 90 points, T:103, killed by a water moccasin 14:41 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 140 points, T:428, killed by a large mimic 14:44 -!- phinxy has joined #hardfought 14:46 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 205 points, T:243, killed by an invisible dwarf 14:50 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 259 points, T:450, killed by a falling rock 14:51 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 6724 points, T:4088, killed by a fire ant 14:55 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 261 points, T:391, killed by a dwarvish spear 14:58 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 2947 points, T:1201, killed by a plains centaur 14:58 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 14:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 15:00 -!- ais523 has quit [Client Quit] 15:00 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 15:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 15:02 [hdf-us] [nh362] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 244 points, T:646, killed by a gnome lord 15:04 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 636 points, T:995, killed by a dwarf 15:20 -!- kozet has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:47 <@carlarc> hmm 15:47 <@carlarc> is the staff of aescupialus a magical staff in sporkhack? 15:47 <@carlarc> that'd be kinda cool 15:47 <@carlarc> or just a normal quarterstaff as its base item 15:58 -!- tsadok is now known as jonadab 15:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v jonadab] by ChanServ 16:02 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 16:09 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:11 what determines the max level a tame monster can grow to? 16:11 my gargoyle seems to have stopped at 9 16:15 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 16:15 [hdf-us] [nh362] Bartlem (Pri Hum Fem Cha), 1202 points, T:3079, killed by a giant ant 16:20 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:20 Menche: I think there's a formula, based on base level? 16:22 I don't think there's an upper limit, since people boosting purple worms to level 40-50 is common 16:23 Purple worms are a special case. 16:23 They can grow above what would be the maximum for most other monsters of their base level. 16:23 By e.g. eating wraiths. 16:24 well, any intelligent monster can quaff gain level potions, which shouldn't be different from wraiths 16:26 that priest has higher AC and lower HP, but the gargoyle won't attack it because it's higher level 16:26 :| 16:27 and it has a monk friend who knows healing 16:27 <@carlarc> ring of conflict? 16:28 haven't found one yet 16:28 <@carlarc> also, isn't there a command that makes you automatically "go to" somewhere 16:28 <@carlarc> like i want to be lazy and just go to the up stairs 16:28 I have two un-ID'd rings, but both are cursed 16:28 yes, _ 16:28 <@carlarc> thanks 16:29 yay, uncursed it in the fountain 16:29 there are no more watchmen, thanks gargoyle 16:29 it has such good AC it never got hit once by a watchman or watch captain 16:29 was stethoscoping it periodically 16:30 oh hey the gargoyle killed the priest 16:30 one of these rings must be conflict 16:30 err wait nevermind 16:31 no 16:31 na 16:34 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 16:35 <[Demo]6> gargoyles ought to be able to grow up into their winged equivalent 16:35 the wiki specifically says that they won't, even with gain level 16:37 "You see here a statue of a gnome king. The statue comes to life!" the gnomes imprisoned their king as a statue trap 16:37 <[Demo]6> yes but they should 16:38 DevTeam pls 16:38 <[Demo]6> hmm would be interesting to play nethack in a wrapper that would do audio queues 16:39 <[Demo]6> like some sort of sound when your health gets low, sounds when certain messages appear 16:44 my YASDs go way up when I don't have a colored hitpointbar 16:44 audio would make it even more obvious 16:44 <[Demo]6> imagine how much more noticable it would be with sound, yeah 16:46 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:47 "You swap places with your steam vortex." 16:47 LOL did someone get polytrap'd 16:48 agdq without ocarina of time..? 16:49 watching the steam vortex take on an orc captain 16:49 it's ingested him a few times 16:50 ok it killed him 16:50 [hdf-us] [nh362] Menche (Mon Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a crocodile, on T:13987 16:50 oh dear 16:50 :( 16:53 [Demo]6: you can grep for amii_speaker to see the rather poor attempts at ingraining sound into nethack 16:53 pfft, searching for amii_speaker online brings up only nethack related stuff 16:54 :( :( :( 16:54 my spells have a nonzero failure rate, that poly blew up my robe 16:55 maaayyybe I should've gotten MR 16:55 <[Demo]6> I'm not saying ingrain it in nethack 16:55 <[Demo]6> that wouldn't work for public servers at all 16:56 <[Demo]6> I'm saying run your nh game or ssh session in some wrapper 16:56 <[Demo]6> that looks for text and plays audio based on it 16:56 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 9893 points, T:3584, killed by a tiger 17:00 that would be fun to mess with with object names or fruit names or mail 17:01 [hdf-us] [sp] carlarc (Bar Orc Fem Cha) had a gnomish suit bestowed upon her by Set, on T:9989 17:02 <@carlarc> why does sporkhack give you this GARBAGE 17:02 it's at least +2 or +3 gnomish suit 17:02 <@carlarc> oh it's a +5 17:02 <@carlarc> meh, i have a +2 bronze plate mail 17:03 <@carlarc> still pretty ridiculous 17:03 the gods will gift you Vladbanes in spork? 17:04 "An object appears at your feet! You see here an orcish dagger." 17:05 <@carlarc> yeah lmao, i got an orcish bow before that 17:05 <@carlarc> as a barbarian 17:06 wow :| 17:06 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 3649 points, T:1584, killed by a baby orange dragon 17:06 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 17:07 menche: i defy you to defeat vlad in spork with an orcish dagger 17:07 tee hee, yeah 17:07 did he get buffed? 17:07 a wee bit 17:07 Spork's Vlad is fearsome. 17:09 he comes with a two-handed sword named lifestealer 17:13 idk what these '2' warnings are but they are either sessile, asleep, or just incredibly slow 17:13 oh right I have an ammy of ESP 17:13 what, they're just mimics? and small ones at that 17:13 how the heck does that justify a 2 on the warning-o-meter 17:14 this must be the mimic of the mines ME 17:18 mimics have pretty beefy attacks 17:20 <[Demo]6> beefics 17:20 <[Demo]6> they mimic beef 17:20 <[Demo]6> and they r not made of animal material 17:21 I beat the giant mimics in the soko goal level without breaking a sweat 17:22 these mimics make Mimic of the Mines much easier for a player with warning 17:22 I don't have to hunt around for the closets 17:22 <@carlarc> aww 17:22 <@carlarc> i unfixed my crisknife via accidentally droping everything at an altar 17:23 <@carlarc> crysknifes shouldn't unfix if they're near like 2 tiles of you 17:25 heh, a mimic mimicing a statue of a dog 17:26 <@carlarc> what do gauntlets of force do? 17:26 whoops another polytrap, I guess this is why MR is recommended :/ 17:29 OOOOPSS CCCRRRAAAPPPPP 17:30 [hdf-us] [nh362] Menche (Mon Hum Mal Law), 50692 points, T:14763, petrified by a chickatrice 17:30 DAMMIT 17:30 :( 17:30 I was polymorphed into a titanophere, so I didn't have my gloves on 17:32 YANI: If they don't do this already, gauntlets of force make any #force attempt guaranteed to succeed. 17:33 <@carlarc> that's great 17:33 <@carlarc> cursed ones make your weapon always break/break everything in the chest 17:36 <[Demo]6> wonder what the odds are of getting a dnh outlands with no structures 17:36 <[Demo]6> cause i just got one 17:38 !hsn 17:38 no? 17:40 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 4628 points, T:2967, killed by a giant spider 17:41 Menche: #nethack-only 17:43 ok this game ended embarrassingly but it is my personal best on this server, by far 17:44 probably mostly because I was rich 17:44 money really does solve all problems 17:44 cleared out a leprechaun hall and a few treasure zoos, and had a bunch of precious gems from ME 17:46 ah I see. I, too, emit gems from my body :P 18:07 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 18:12 carlarc: in unnethack it takes 100 successful hits to get to basic 18:13 since i am a healer my preferred weapon is a staff but a unicorn horn will do 18:13 in vanilla i would be training the daggers 18:14 <@carlarc> ah okay 18:14 since the dagger isn't a particularly superior weapon and since y the time i train it, i should have a staff or unihorn, i am sticking with the scalpel 18:14 <@carlarc> i see 18:14 don't need -4 to hit for 100 strikes 18:15 training in un or dynahack is ridiculous 18:15 <[Demo]6> yeah its dumb 18:15 <[Demo]6> its part of the reason i wanted to make a certain assassination in tnnt 18:15 conversely, training in vanilla is ridiculous, once you get your luck and XL up 18:16 "I've never wielded a dagger before, but for some reason it just keeps going into the monster just where I need it..." 18:17 <[Demo]6> some weapons should be easier to train than others 18:17 says aosdict WHO HATES HEALERS 18:17 <[Demo]6> its a lot easier to stab a bitch with a dagger than clunk a slammer with a morning star 18:17 this doesn't have anything to do with healers specifically 18:17 i know, i just like sayinf AOSDICT HATES HEALERS 18:18 [Demo]6: if optimal play didn't tend so far towards daggers, I might agree 18:18 hothraxxa: quiet, you're going to make there be a slex scroll labeled AOSDICT HATES HEALERS 18:18 aosdict: I can believe that a luckstone would have that effect, it's magical after all 18:18 "I don't know how to use a dagger, but luckily, I seem to be doing OK!" 18:19 <[Demo]6> same with god given luck 18:19 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 18:19 "I'm so lucky that I can literally never miss any monster anymore!" 18:20 lotg 18:20 Better than the DCSSism where you can train any weapon you have with you, which avoids victory dancing but means "I'm going to train with this dagger by bashing monsters with a mace while thinking about stabbing them up" 18:20 i watched a kung fu movie once 18:21 i now know kung fu 18:21 YANI: Missing monsters with stuff trains its skill (to a lesser extent than making successful hits, but still.) 18:21 Only if the skill is Unskilled. 18:21 your movie watching fu is strong but my tv watching fu will defeat you 18:22 EPI: the more you miss, the more you learn how to use that weapon the wrong way, which makes you even less skilled 18:22 duh. variant cross-contamination 18:22 <[Demo]6> isnt that a thing in slashem aos? 18:23 <[Demo]6> doesnt missing hits train in slashem 18:23 variants I know little about: spork, slashem, dyna, dnh 18:25 <@luxidream> dyna trains hits that do 1HP of damage 18:25 <@luxidream> also reverts un’s spellcasting training changes to vanilla 18:25 <@luxidream> so you don’t have to use 500 power 18:25 training hits that do 1 HP of damage, now that's something everyone can get on board with 18:26 silly idea: train /only/ on hits that do 1HP of damage 18:26 thus, weaker weapons train faster than stronger ones, and using a more difficult weapon (0 or negative enchanment) is needed to help you learn 18:27 if your weapons are just magically focusing on everything, why would you learn anything from that? 18:27 (YASI: ^) 18:27 * hothraxxa curses his weapons for training purposes 18:28 Actually... that's sounding like an okay idea. 18:28 ... victory dancing 18:28 Pinkbeast: please explain what that means 18:28 <@luxidream> stabbing lichen with -3 orcish dagger to train? 18:29 aosdict: Well, in this context, you'll go to D:1 to practice on grid bugs with your cursed -3 dagger 18:29 But more generally a repetitive and unthreatening activity which makes no sense save that it has a side effect desirable for victory. 18:32 I think I was envisioning this as, train only on hits where the natural damage die rolls a 1, ignoring other effects. That would get you the "weaker weapons train faster" effect without really incentivizing using a training -3 weapon. 18:33 aosdict: Oh, yes, that makes more sense. But what about multiple-damage-die weapons? 18:33 (YANI ^^) 18:33 <@luxidream> What would be a reasonable amount of training hits for each skill level then 18:33 Pinkbeast: Naively, it would ignore hitbon. 18:33 On the other hand, that would make dagger skill via orcish dagger train really fast... 18:34 which may not be desirable. 18:34 It would also weirdly mean that orcish weapons are preferable to dwarven or elven counterparts. 18:34 for training purposes at least. 18:35 <@luxidream> it would mean there’s no reasonable way to train longsword without absurd amounts of tedious sandbagging 18:35 not really, it would just mean that your longsword skill comes in deeper in the dungeon than other weapons, if you continue to play normally 18:36 like, I don't think we can come up with a training system in which it's not technically optimal to grind on lower levels 18:36 <@luxidream> assuming vanilla formula stays, it would take upwards of 160 hits to train longsword? 18:36 $ echo -n 'E-n\nElbereth\n:' | xclip 18:36 <@luxidream> to unskilled 18:37 * Menche prepares to grind exercise Wisdom 18:37 how do you train something to unskilled 18:37 sounds... dirty 18:37 <@luxidream> basic sorry 18:38 that... sounds pretty feasible for a character who doesn't have any training in longswords 18:40 <@luxidream> the game already doesn’t incentivize using different weapons enough, I don’t think it should become harder to train them 18:42 <@luxidream> if I get an artifact weapon in un the first thing I have to is sandbag the 100 hits it takes to get to basic because of how nerfed unskilled weapons are 18:42 weapons like short swords and scimitars are automatically considered not worth training, because their skills don't apply to any worthwhile weapons 18:43 maybe similar skills could be bundled together and affect each other 18:43 have a certain level of one sword skill, have the other sword skills be less nerfed 18:43 <@luxidream> dyna has a cool “related skills” mechanics 18:44 Menche: making skill progression a tree rather than a bunch of single progressions is interesting but challenging 18:44 <@luxidream> If you train scimitar or long sword to basic, and go to learn saber 18:44 <@luxidream> You learn it twice as fast 18:44 <@luxidream> there are different weapon groups that help each other 18:44 maybe make it use less skill slots to have two skills from one category vs two skills from different categories 18:46 <@luxidream> dyna isn’t perfect though, it introduces armor skill which is ridiculously overpowered 18:49 <@carlarc> what does it do? 18:49 <@luxidream> gives you a bunch of extra AC based on the weight of your armor and shield 18:50 <@luxidream> however it’s trained by literally existing and wearing armor/shield 18:50 <[Demo]6> its very strong 18:51 <@luxidream> so at skilled/skilled with armor and shield, wearing an elven shield and chain mail 18:52 <@luxidream> You have 8 extra AC 18:52 <@carlarc> based on weight is a nice idea 18:54 time to pick this lock 50 times in a row 19:24 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 20129 points, T:8543, killed by a giant zombie 19:29 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:31 <@carlarc> why is it so easy to just walk out of a shop with an unpaid item in sporkhack 19:31 stenno: for all the analytical work you've done on mkclass, the actual *fix* to it is pretty simple, right? 19:32 (ignoring special level tangles) 19:32 it got a bit simplified after the latest changes 19:32 @carlarc does the shk yell at you to pay before leaving? 19:33 there were quite a few solution, right 19:33 stenno: it seems like the fix is just to remove the extra checks where the toostrong() check is 19:33 including the rn2 call 19:33 sec 19:33 * stenno looks up 19:34 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:35 <@carlarc> nope aosdit 19:35 aosdict: it's not that simple 19:35 <@carlarc> aosdict¨ 19:35 <@carlarc> he just stands there 19:35 <@carlarc> i havent actually left without paying though 19:36 he may have become disassociated with the shop because of a bug, in which case... free stuff! 19:36 <@carlarc> nope 19:36 <@carlarc> still had the option to pay for my things 19:36 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 19:36 <@carlarc> iso ided 19:36 <@carlarc> so i did 19:36 for example, i think that would lead to no initial monsters getting generated on question home if those are strong enough? 19:36 <@carlarc> bluh 19:37 stenno: Ignoring special level considerations for the moment. 19:37 that would certainly fix minesflayer, yes 19:37 And only for levels that specify classes instead of specific monsters; for instance Valk-home wouldn't be affected. 19:38 right 19:38 well, xnethack has already fixed minesflayers, but I would also like to fix castle arch liches 19:38 and giant mimics in shops on DL 2 19:39 anyway, it seems code-wise reducing those extra factors in the mkclass check doesn't actually *break* anything, it just makes the monster fail to generate. 19:39 if all candidates are too difficult. 19:40 if we disregard special level things, woulld it be sensible if mkclass would just be called with the spc set properly? 19:41 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 19:42 hm i can only disable it with spc? 19:42 i mean disable G_NOGEN | G_UNIQ 19:46 aosdict: would you consider it problematic that purple L at castle would generate with sufficient xl/dl even though it only spawns in gehennom? 19:46 (arch-lich at least) 19:46 stenno: no discussion on the subject on the devteam list, fwiw 19:47 master lich too 19:47 but it wasn't exactly highlighted 19:47 shrug 19:47 thanks for the info 19:47 my own opinion is along the lines of "allow out-of-depth monsters more generally if it's reasonable to be able to out-tactic them" 19:48 <@carlarc> ookay i just found a sporkhack shambling horror at xp14, dlvl 11 19:48 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 4396 points, T:2772, killed by an arc bug 19:48 how would you define 'reasonable to be able' here? 19:48 I'm not sure if minesflayers count as being out-tacticable (I've done it before but it was item-dependent), liches almost certainly don't 19:48 but I don't have a hard definition 19:48 <@carlarc> since the wiki is an abslute stub, i have no idea how to fight it 19:48 something like a mumak would be fine on DL1 if you knew what it did 19:48 you probably couldn't kill it but you could at least run away 19:48 <@carlarc> should i just whak and hope it doesnt get a paralyze attack 19:48 yeah it's pretty slow 19:49 it has no ranged attacks 19:54 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 1259 points, T:654, killed by a killer bee 19:59 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:00 <@shadow_vantala> Sex Dating > http://discord.amazingsexdating.com 20:06 <@carlarc> hmm 20:06 <@carlarc> @Mod 20:08 <@Audrey 💝> thanks 20:15 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 5008 points, T:3361, killed by a bolt of lightning 20:25 ais523: being out-tacticable more or less correlates with difficulty 20:26 aosdict: do you mean difficulty as in DIF or as in actual as-seen-by-players difficulty? 20:26 as in mons[foo].difficulty 20:27 I'm not sure I agree with that 20:27 well, for monsters that are actually interesting. 20:27 Probably not true for baluchitheria. 20:27 baluchitheria? 20:28 also, a mumak can't *necessarily* be out-tacticked on DL1, you could get unlucky enough to get cornered in a dead end corridor by it 20:29 ditto for minesflayers, you might get cornered somewhere where it can take you down with psychic blasts 20:29 aosdict: it'd have to be a very long corridor 20:30 unless it spawned in the room behind you while you were in the corridor 20:30 I can easily imagine a minimum spawn distance for OoD monsters 20:30 not really, you would just have to let it chase you out of the room on the exit leading to a dead end 20:30 Is a baluchitheria a monster 20:30 PavelB: it's baluchitherium pluralized 20:30 Never heard that word before 20:30 if the room's at least, what, 4×4 you can probably run round it 20:31 yeah, but there are plenty of 3*x rooms and even 2*x rooms around 20:32 it doesn't necessarily have to spawn near you either 20:32 it could spawn across the level and pop out from behind a corner in a corridor and one hit KO you 20:32 in that case, you wouldn't even know it was there until you were doomed 20:33 use a light source? or are there corner arrangements where that doesn't help? 20:33 I agree you might not have one or know to use one, though 20:33 or, hmm 20:33 maybe an OoD spawn should give a message? 20:33 there should be corner arrangements where that doesn't help 20:33 I can't think of one offhand 20:34 mumak is knights-move away from you out of sight, you move next to it unwittingly, boom dead 20:34 there might be one though 20:34 knights-move is within LOS, isn't it? 20:34 wiztesting shows no 20:35 hmm, probably it should be, but NetHack's LOS algorithm is scary 20:35 <@carlarc> i really love how sporhack reworked resistances 20:36 anyway, the *cleaner* way to do this is just disallow out of difficulty spawns. Why are we trying to justify ways to make them work? 20:36 <@carlarc> though it never shows your percentage of telepathy unlike with the real resistances 20:36 <@carlarc> so thats annoying 20:36 aosdict: because NetHack combat is repetitive/irrelevant enough as it is and there's very rarely any use for tactics 20:37 NetHack's about exploration, mostly, but it'd still be interesting to end up in situations you hadn't been in before and have to come up with solutions; I guess that's an exploration in its own sense 20:37 why do you think I go round ignoring most of the items in the game? it's because you never end up in a situation that's challenging enough to need them 20:38 so being able to have OoD spawns would add variety to the game, increasing tactical depth and replay value 20:38 it's just important to avoid the tactics for dealing with them becoming a) repetitive or b) impossible, meaning you just unfairly die 20:38 Played Golden Krone Hotel recently 20:38 It's the only other roguelike (not roguelite) I've played, so my opinion isn't great, but I really like the tactics for combat in it 20:38 With the sunlight mechanics and such 20:38 Part of the problem with trying to increase tactical play is that if you create a scenario where a certain set of tactics will work but not standard ones, it will create games where the resources for carrying out those tactics don't exist yet, so you die 20:39 aosdict: yes, ideally you want monsters to be just out of the range of "repeatedly bump into them to kill" 20:39 but if you have good escape items, it can help to recover if a random encounter ends up too hard 20:40 NetHack does have those, and most games will gather lots, so this is mostly just an issue in the early game (which doesn't really need fixing) 20:40