00:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 183 points, T:236, killed by a water moccasin
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01:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 2525 points, T:1863, killed by a kitten
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02:01 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: why do you insist on wanting to see slex with tiles? would you play it if it had tiles?
02:01 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2018-11-27 08:06 EST: It's the main plot item from that avengers: infinity war movie.
02:01 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from jonadab at 2018-11-27 20:47 EST: https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikedev/comments/a0qtbq/i_made_an_open_source_tool_for_designing/   slex tiles when?
02:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 3025 points, T:2976, killed by a gnome
02:59 <LarienTelrunya> !tell K2 Antichthon apparently had a segfault in slex on hdf-us. It recovered fine, but I'd like to see the backtrace of that; something with light sources apparently.
02:59 <Beholder> I'm on it, LarienTelrunya.
03:08 <K2> LarienTelrunya --> http://termbin.com/a0xj
03:08 <Beholder> K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-11-28 02:59 EST: Antichthon apparently had a segfault in slex on hdf-us. It recovered fine, but I'd like to see the backtrace of that; something with light sources apparently.
03:09 <LarienTelrunya> K2: thanks! apparently "mon" in get_mon_location() was undefined; I'll have to see if I can figure out a fix for that
03:10 <LarienTelrunya> get_mon_location (mon=0x0, ...
03:10 <LarienTelrunya> that means a NULL monster was passed to the function, right?
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03:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Mal Neu), 3928 points, T:2056, killed by a wand
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04:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Cha), 3953 points, T:3849, killed by a dwarf
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05:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 4009 points, T:2672, killed by a gnome
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07:57 <AntiGulp> .
07:57 <Beholder> AntiGulp: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-11-26 02:21 EST: how screwed are you if you pick the werewolf race? are they similar to SLASH'EM lycanthropes in terms of unplayability? :D
07:58 <AntiGulp> LarienTelrunya: They might be MORE unplayable than SLASH’EM lycanthropes at this point. I’m rebalancing races this update, and they’re one of the ones I want to buff.
07:58 <LarienTelrunya> hi AntiGulp! heh, I'm curious :) slex made lycanthropes relatively competitive IMHO, although I have yet to see any other player play one successfully
08:00 <AntiGulp> I’ll have to check that out! I’m still struggling with how to make Lycanthropy not completely awful. I’m thinking about some D&D-esque distinction between natural lycanthropy and inflicted lycanthropy. Right now I’m working on procedurally generated quests, though :O
08:00 <LarienTelrunya> wtf? quest levels? you mean you're gonna randomly create them all?
08:02 <AntiGulp> Not levels, although maybe eventually. Essentially adventurers wandering the dungeon which give you a random basic RPG quest when chatted with (ex: This monster stole my stuff and fled into the dungeon, go kill it for a reward). It’s really basic, but I just want to see how possible it is.
08:02 <LarienTelrunya> ahh, kind of like radiant quests in Skyrim and other games
08:03 <AntiGulp> yea
08:03 <jonadab> Like ADOM quests, maybe.
08:03 <jonadab> Only procedurally generated, hopefully.
08:04 <jonadab> (One of the things I don't like about ADOM is that important content like that is not procedurally generated.)
08:04 <LarienTelrunya> heh, one of the things I don't like about ADOM is that it's very easy to permanently miss content, e.g. if you do quests in the wrong order, or in some cases, if you don't take/complete them early enough! Ack!
08:06 <AntiGulp> At this point my proof-of-concept is just having monsters that randomly pull some stuff I wrote in quest.dat when chatted with, and reference a random monster which gets buffed and migrated deeper into the dungeon. Killing it and bringing back something from it (a trophy?) nets the player one of several different possible rewards (cool item, map, ally, etc.)
08:07 <AntiGulp> I need to play more ADOM.
08:07 <LarienTelrunya> you should play Elona, which is IMHO rather similar to ADOM, but better :D preferably with my Amylona variant *bundlebundlebundle* ♥
08:08 * AntiGulp protests that she has played about 10 minutes of Elona
08:08 <AntiGulp> My list of roguelikes to get into is like… Elona, ADOM, Dwarf Fortress
08:08 <LarienTelrunya> 10 minutes??? I've probably put thousands of hours into playing it at this point :D
08:09 <AntiGulp> In my defense, making it cooperate on my mac is hard
08:09 <LarienTelrunya> oh right, yeah it's supposed to be played on windows
08:10 <AntiGulp> I’m good at wineskin so I can trick most things into running on a mac, but there’s always a learning period with each application. The early investment can be high.
08:10 <AntiGulp> What makes Amylona different?
08:13 <LarienTelrunya> mainly miscellaneous mechanic fixes, including making some badly-scaling quests scale better; https://raw.githubusercontent.com/AmyBSOD/Amylona/master/changelog.txt
08:14 <LarienTelrunya> gotta go afk for a bit now though
08:16 <K2> heya AntiGulp
08:16 <AntiGulp> Morning K2!
08:16 <K2> ;)
08:16 <AntiGulp> ;D
08:17 <K2> there arent any recent updates to master i need to pull are there?
08:17 <K2> i havent checked in awhile
08:18 <AntiGulp> I don’t think so? There are a few fixes to Sonicboom blowing up the wielder’s items instead of monsters (OOPS) but other than that I’ve been working in development since a lot of the bugs I’m fixing are savebreaking.
08:22 <AntiGulp> Alas, I must head in to work
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08:29 <LarienTelrunya> !tell AntiGulp an artifact that blows up the wielder's items? sounds like a nice downside for an otherwise overpowered artifact (if the artifact in question is overpowered otherwise; i.e. might make for nice evil patch ideas :D)
08:29 <Beholder> I'm on it, LarienTelrunya.
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09:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [4k] morok (zor) (Rog Syl Fem Cha), 6150 points, T:1124, killed by a dwarf zombie, while fainted from lack of food
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12:38 <[Demo]4> hmm... what should a massive deep one with tentacles that lives on the seafloor and is a mines end alternative have as a prize?
12:47 <jonadab> [Demo]4: +5 trident
12:47 <jonadab> And a luckstone
12:51 <stenno> the number of Demos seem to increase every now and then
12:54 <[Demo]4> eh not good enough, this branch is harder than mines and the minetown equivalent is inferior to minetown
12:56 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> fireproof +3 water walking boots, oilskin sack with random magic items
12:58 <[Demo]4> water walking boots don't make any sense flavor wise, the branch is full of diving and swimming through water via eating gillyweed which it is full of
12:58 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> are there swimming gloves in dnh?
12:59 <[Demo]4> no but something like that might make sense
12:59 <LarienTelrunya> [Demo]4: make him drop a rubynus material kit on death, which you can use to change the material of one item to rubynus :P
12:59 <[Demo]4> some of the adventure branches have artifacts as prizes
13:00 <[Demo]4> that's not a thing :P
13:00 <LarienTelrunya> then make it a thing, only obtainable from that quest! that way the reward is unique :D
13:00 <[Demo]4> something that makes flavor sense and as an artifact grants swimming might make sense
13:03 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> swimming flippers, doubles player speed in water, halves it outside of water
13:04 <jonadab> Artifact speed boots that grant magical breathing when carried and protect your inventory from water damage when worn.
13:05 <stenno> that would be really good
13:05 <stenno> especially for plane of water
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13:12 <LarienTelrunya> eh, just make it give Leng's Kryptonite :D it would even be appropriate, because the elder priest also has tentacles!
13:26 <[Demo]4> too strong
13:26 <stenno> not in vanilla
13:27 <[Demo]4> ah but in ndnh it would be an instant choice for dagons or water plane
13:28 <stenno> its an obvious choice for Water in vanilla too but eh.
13:28 <stenno> it's almost the same as levitation for non-Plane o Water
13:29 <[Demo]4> the thing is it would make the archipelago the best choice of adventure branch
13:29 <stenno> waiting in the bubble can be really annoying at times - i see it more as a convenience than a must-have
13:34 <[Demo]4> ah but dnh adds plenty of viable other ways to avoid that hassle
13:34 <LarienTelrunya> when will ndnh be ready for a public server?
13:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] KaiHerd (Tou Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:5469
13:36 <[Demo]4> in a few days probably for initial playtesting
13:38 <LarienTelrunya> ah cool, ring me up if you want me to put it on esm :)
13:41 <[Demo]4> cool thanks
13:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] KaiHerd (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 6967 points, T:6148, killed by an orcish arrow
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14:27 <[Demo]4> kinda wanna change PM_ELF to be green....
14:31 <[Demo]4> why are water moccasins nogen but also lgroup?
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14:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] porkman (Ana Inc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fireproof greased +3 gauntlets of spell power", on T:20059
14:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] porkman (Ana Inc Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fireproof greased +3 helping hand", on T:20060
14:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] porkman (Ana Inc Fem Cha) was given their Quest, on T:20197
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16:21 <[Demo]4> !tell rikersan do you recall that time your save blew up in your quest?
16:21 <Beholder> Will do, [Demo]4!
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16:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] porkman (Wiz Ang Fem Neu), 449 points, T:680, killed by a monster (wooden fungus)
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17:05 <jonadab> EPI:  a monster that, if it sees an object on a ground that is not a rock, turns it into a rock; and if it sees a rock on the ground, turns it into twice as many rocks.
17:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] porkman (Wiz Ang Fem Cha), 18108 points, T:1281, killed by a monster (Baalphegor)
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17:22 <Chris_ANG> EPI: Fake wizards towers contain fake Wizards of Yendor with fake Amulets of Yendor.
17:22 <Chris_ANG> Against spoiled players this has no effect, while the hypothetical unspoiled player would be tricked into escaping the dungeon unless they were very careful.
17:24 <PavelB> Junethack 2018 no longer shows the Improved Tin Openers flag on its clan page, because the gravatar was associated with my personal email and I wanted to stop using it as my profile pic for everything.
17:24 <PavelB> Hopefully no one has a problem with this.
17:30 <aosdict> rip pavelb's ito github avatar
17:31 <PavelB> I blame bhaak for using Gravatar
17:33 <PavelB> And yeah I should get an actual github pic
17:33 <aosdict> blaming bhaak is apparently a popular pastime
17:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] porkman (Wiz Tro Fem Cha), 6368 points, T:1892, killed by a monster (piranha)
17:45 <PavelB> Hmm, I pushed a boulder into a vault teleporter and it disapeared, presumably going to the vault. What if I fill the vault with four boulders? 🤔
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19:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Ketalos (Maihemm) (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 18007 points, T:1243, killed by a red mold
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20:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh13d] Xaleth (Elf ### Mal ###) shouted "hi", on T:20
20:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh13d] Xaleth (Elf Mal), 170 points, T:126, dog
20:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Valyn (Maihemm) (Val Hum Fem Law), 22411 points, T:1858, killed by a gnome queen
20:09 <PavelB> ...you can should in 13d but 362?
20:09 <PavelB> *shout
20:10 <aosdict> I wouldn't be particularly surprised if K2 adds #shout to 362-hdf
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20:12 <PavelB> Have I asked you about #shout in xnh before?
20:12 <aosdict> no, but I'm disinclined to add it unless there's some actual purpose for it
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20:14 <Xaleth> lol ZAPM has an "anal probe" XD
20:14 <PavelB> YANI: Shouting wakes and has a chance of scaring nearby monsters
20:15 <Xaleth> I'm just on a variant spree.
20:15 <Xaleth> I'm trying out different flavors of vanilla.
20:15 <aosdict> see, if it had an actual gameplay effect like that, people would do it a lot. And that would get it livelogged a lot.
20:15 <PavelB> zapm isn't a nethack variant
20:16 <Xaleth> It feels like nethack tho
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20:18 <PavelB> Which is why it's on hdf, I guess
20:18 <aosdict> it's on hdf because it was in the devnull tribute tournament last year
20:19 <aosdict> and there was no reason to remove it
20:19 <PavelB> Didn't hardfought run the devnull tribute
20:19 <aosdict> yes
20:19 <PavelB> So my point still stands
20:19 <PavelB> If I even have a point, I'm not sure I do
20:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Alicia the Hand (Maihemm) (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 24600 points, T:1531, killed by a dwarf lord
20:48 <Chris_ANG> K2: Can you put Porkman's recent dnh game somewhere I can access it (It was an Anachrononaut game on hardfought US)?  It suffered from a bad crash that I hope is reproduceable.
20:49 <K2> it looks like he continued to play?
20:49 <K2> i can check for a coredump
20:52 <Chris_ANG> That would be helpful
20:52 <Chris_ANG> It was at the end of...
20:53 <K2> yup i see a coredump from today
20:53 <K2> uno momento
20:54 <Chris_ANG> The one with the root-cause crash probably isn't the most recent, though :(
20:55 <K2> http://termbin.com/lznu
20:55 <Chris_ANG> I believe it would have been from the session that resulted in the 2018-11-28.18_43_59.ttyrec.gz ttyrec.
20:55 <K2> that's the only coredump for dnh i have for today
20:56 <[Demo]4> its a hellish crash
20:56 <[Demo]4> like goodbye level files goodbye game
20:56 <K2> timestamp is 1609 hrs today (EST)
20:56 <Chris_ANG> Yeah, that's probably the most recent one.
20:57 <Chris_ANG> Weird, then.
20:58 <Chris_ANG> That should be it
20:58 <Chris_ANG> But that stack trace doesn't look like it's from what he was doing at the end of the tty.
20:58 <[Demo]4> was there an earlier crash?
20:59 <Chris_ANG> Do the times on the tty page show what time the tty was completed, or what time it began?
20:59 <Chris_ANG> ( https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/porkman/dnethack/ttyrec/ )
20:59 <K2> hmm
20:59 <K2> good question
21:05 <Chris_ANG> My guess is it shows what time it was completed
21:07 <Chris_ANG> His 20.21 ttyrec is from 16:09, and ends with him trying to climb a staircase, which is what the stack trace shows.
21:08 <Chris_ANG> That ttyrec begins with a "Recover game" screen though, which means the previous session should have ended on a crash.
21:08 <Chris_ANG> The 1607 ttyrec ends with him saving, though, apparently successfully.  
21:09 <Chris_ANG> A mid-save crash would explain why some of the level files are now missing.
21:16 <K2> ugh
21:18 <Chris_ANG> Do you know why the 1609 core dump is the only one from today?  It looks like there should be several after that.
21:24 <[Demo]4> wait, dgl doesnt use a fake chroot?
21:24 <[Demo]4> how the hell does the nethack user have privileges to chroot then?
21:26 <jonadab> Dunno about dgl, but the standard way to do this is, the service (or inetd) runs as root but chroots as soon as the user connects.
21:26 <jonadab> Before processing any input.
21:30 <[Demo]4> the documentation I'm seeing says to just set it as the users login shell but to be fair they r probably just dumb and there's no good documentation on actually getting dgl set up and using it
21:30 <[Demo]4> I have no fucking idea how anyone has figured out how to use it at all
21:31 <jonadab> K2 got help from dtype, IIRC.
21:31 <jonadab> paxed probably also got help from dtype way back in the day.  Not sure about kerio.
21:32 <[Demo]4> I don't know why no one has written an alternative in python or something
21:32 <[Demo]4> how'd elronnd figure it out?
21:32 <jonadab> Probably from kerio.
21:32 <jonadab> Dunno who taught kerio; that was before my time.
21:32 <aosdict> it probably all goes back to dtype, it's named after him after all
21:33 <jonadab> YEah.
21:33 <dtype> nah newer setups aren’t mine
21:33 <jonadab> Not directly.
21:33 <jonadab> But they probably learned from people who learned from people who.
21:33 <dtype> kerio probably has spent more time on it in recent years than me
21:33 <jonadab> That's likely.
21:34 <dtype> and please rewrite in python. if I had time I’d do it.
21:34 <[Demo]4> I'm just confused why nobody with the knowledge has documented it
21:34 <dtype> and run it in docker probably.
21:34 <jonadab> I thought docker was old and busted and the cool kids were using some other containerization system these days.
21:35 <[Demo]4> also why is getting no pwd no key ssh such a pain to find documentation on too?
21:36 <dtype> yeah that is a pita
21:36 <jonadab> Because for normal accounts that's not a sane configuration.
21:36 <dtype> some Pam config jack
21:36 <dtype> hack
21:36 <jonadab> It does make sense for something like this, though.
21:38 -!- ShivanHunter_ is now known as ShivanHunter
21:38 <[Demo]4> a modern dgl would have a built in web interface :P
21:50 <Elronnd> [Demo]4: yeah kerio
21:50 <Elronnd> at this point I don't care enough to actually fix it up
21:50 <Elronnd> it's kind of a mess, though
21:50 <[Demo]4> what are you using to get it so when nethack logs it in drops you into dgl run as root?
21:51 <dtype> setuid
21:52 <dtype> can at that point just run dgl as any users and it drops you into chroot and executes.
21:52 <dtype> easy to test that way too
21:52 <Elronnd> [Demo]4: I don't
21:53 <Elronnd> dgl runs as slashem
21:53 <Elronnd> (so sshd does the actual chrooting)
21:53 <[Demo]4> ah
21:54 <[Demo]4> well if anyone wants to take a sneak peak at ndnh before the beta i got a kerio tier domain and have it at nethack@dope.diddlydingusdu.de
21:58 <Elronnd> http://diddlydingusdu.de/ doesn't have the same quote it did before
21:58 <Elronnd> ;<
21:58 <[Demo]4> yeah that page will come back at some point probably
21:58 <Elronnd> yay!
22:09 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> [Demo]4: salamander can lose the game by not finding a key early enough
22:09 <[Demo]4> not true
22:09 <[Demo]4> you can secrete lava and then spit lava at the door
22:09 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> how do I do that
22:10 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> #power doesn't do anything
22:10 <[Demo]4> #monster
22:10 <[Demo]4> will add to welcome()
22:11 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> gotcha thanks
22:11 <aosdict> luxidream you now feature in a dudley comic
22:12 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> where
22:12 <aosdict> alt.org/nethack/dudley
22:13 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> why did dudley zap paxed and not lorimer
22:13 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> in the orctown strip
22:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Legolas (Maihemm) (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 28166 points, T:1586, killed by a large dog
22:15 <aosdict> It could be argued that paxed is just as responsible for orctown in vanilla as lorimer is.
22:16 <aosdict> since paxed is the one who actually put it in the vanilla codebase
22:16 <aosdict> ShivanHunter: great stuff (comics)
22:16 <[Demo]4> complicit
22:16 <ShivanHunter> lol thanks :D
22:17 <ShivanHunter> @Luxcalibur: Paxed, like in the game where I killed Paxed (and the dungeon collapsed), just happened to be closest :P
22:17 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> I liked the one where you read the scroll and its full of bugs
22:17 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> xD
22:17 <aosdict> OH
22:17 <aosdict> missed the punchline
22:18 <ShivanHunter> LOL
22:18 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> lmao
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22:18 <aosdict> part of that is because several of the other strips feature the Incoming Soldier Ant Brigade
22:18 <aosdict> I really liked the orctown one
22:19 <ShivanHunter> Heh. Well it's based in your (and stenno's) IRC quote :P
22:20 <aosdict> I have some nethack scenarios that could probably be adapted into comics... a few are on qdb, more aren't
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22:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Sir Crab (Maihemm) (Kni Hum Mal Law), 7511 points, T:442, slipped while mounting a saddled pony
22:23 <aosdict> if you want to do another one (after what I assume will be a conclusion to the TNNT series), do the one where I had a priest who kept intentionally triggering a rock trap to get a pet past it
22:23 <ShivanHunter> hmm!
22:23 <ShivanHunter> yeah the next one will wrap up the TNNT series
22:23 <aosdict> #2531
22:28 <K2> hahaha
22:29 <K2> i just read all of the latest dudley strips
22:29 <ShivanHunter> ;)
22:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Bishop Strong (Maihemm) (Pri Hum Mal Law), 12179 points, T:776, killed by a small mimic
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23:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] Disruptor (Wiz Dro Mal Cha), 231 points, T:847, killed by an acidic corpse
23:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] bouquet (Con Vam Fem Cha), 0 points, T:110, killed by a fox
23:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] bouquet (Con Vam Fem Cha), 211 points, T:564, killed by a sewer rat, while fainted from lack of food
23:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] bouquet (Con Orc Fem Cha), 0 points, T:5, killed by a jackal