00:01 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought
00:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris__ANG] by ChanServ
00:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] jailbird (Con Vam Mal Law), 3080 points, T:2842, quit
00:04 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
00:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) genocided class L, on T:31185
01:28 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
01:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] jailbird (Con Vam Mal Cha), 2706 points, T:4150, killed by a Woodland-elf
02:01 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought
02:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ
02:03 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
02:33 -!- Mentat_ has joined #hardfought
02:34 <Mentat_> @k2 got my account bac
02:34 <Mentat_> thanks again, turns out all they wanted was my address from 15 years agoi
02:34 <Mentat_> lucky i remembered it 
02:34 <Mentat_> and had used my real name
02:38 -!- Mentat_ has quit [Client Quit]
02:56 <rld> <@shadowsapex> "You finish your prayer. You feel that Crom is well-pleased. Your axe softly glows with a light blue aura."
02:56 <rld> <@shadowsapex> so dead
03:32 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:46 -!- barcabuona has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
03:49 <benthor> so, I was wondering what the literary inspirations there are for this whole dungeon crawling concept...
03:49 <benthor> tolkien and the mines of moria are obvious
03:50 <benthor> is the rest all lifted from DnD?
03:52 <bhaak> the first text adventure "Adventure" was in as much an inspiration to make the replay value bigger
03:53 <bhaak> but if you're asking for the "dungeon crawling concept", that depends on the game.
03:54 <bhaak> TOME was originally an angband variant featuring stuff from Anne McCaffrey's  Pern series. before he got sued :)
03:54 <benthor> I guess my question is: what are the obvious inspirations from fantasy literature, besides tolkien?
03:55 <benthor> because I've basically only read tolkien
03:55 * benthor is more of a scifi guy
03:56 <benthor> (well, and nethack predates much of the more recent "fantasy" that I've read... ASOIF doesn't seem relevant here)
03:57 <bhaak> the tourist class is from Terry Pratchett, the knight class and quest is classic King Arthur stuff.
03:57 <bhaak> if you look for the data.base entries, you'll see many references
03:59 <benthor> and yeah, and the archeologist is a nod to indiana jones and so on. that's not what I'm asking
04:00 <benthor> the minor nods to pop culture everywhere are interesting but my question is about the core concepts
04:00 <bhaak> what core concepts? wandering through the dungeon and hack&slaying?
04:06 <benthor> pretty much... why a dungeon? where does the concept of cursed/blessed items come from? the concept of powerful potions, of wands? scrolls where you don't know what they'll do until you read them? 
04:06 <benthor> teleportation?
04:07 <benthor> it seems like there should be some quintessential fantasy classic that I haven't read yet
04:08 <benthor> I _only_ know the concept of scrolls from nethack
04:08 <benthor> and wands that only do one specific thing
04:09 <benthor> I have never seen that anywhere else
04:10 <benthor> but I've only read LotR, a bunch of terry pratchett and harry potter.
04:12 <benthor> I mean, I guess it's *possible* that all this was pioneered by DnD. I think it's more probable that DnD was inspired by interesting literature *besides* Tolkien
04:12 <benthor> WHAT is that literature?
04:21 <benthor> ok. apparently it's pulp fiction :D
04:21 <benthor> TIL
04:21 <benthor> that explains a lot actually
04:24 <benthor> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Howard look at those covers
04:33 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought
04:33 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ
04:35 -!- Chris__ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
04:43 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
04:43 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought
04:51 <bhaak> lots of stuff comes from DnD. the setting and cursed/blessed items, potions, at least
04:54 <bhaak> although I'm not sure if blessed was already in the original Rogue
04:54 <bhaak> http://coredumpcentral.org/docs/rogguide.txt
04:56 <bhaak> I'm not sure if consumable scrolls where a thing before rogue but it makes sense from gameplay consideration. it also opened up the possibility to have a kind of persistent scroll later with spellbooks
05:14 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
05:19 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought
05:26 <raisse> The potions of healing mix with the potion of speed...
05:26 <raisse> BOOM!  They explode!  Your movements are now unencumbered.
05:27 <raisse> that's one way to avoid being weighed down by potions
06:07 -!- Tangles_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:09 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought
06:09 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ
06:14 -!- phinxy_ has quit [Quit: leaving]
06:38 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.]
06:38 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
06:38 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
06:39 -!- phinxy has joined #hardfought
07:03 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought
07:03 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ
08:11 -!- MysteryMyra has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
08:13 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
08:43 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
08:45 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
08:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
08:47 -!- raisse has quit [Read error: No route to host]
08:47 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
09:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) murdered Montu, her faithful kitten, on T:1625
09:17 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought
09:17 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ
09:17 <AntiGulp> .
09:18 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
09:22 <bhaak> Tangles: have you checked the behavior of nethack curses with window resizing? I think it's off by a few lines. if you resize the width, all is fine, but not if you resize the height
09:23 <bhaak> I think "if ((term_cols > 81) && (term_rows > 25)) {" should have 29 instead of 25
09:29 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: explodes into confetti]
09:36 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought
09:39 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
09:42 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
09:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:2347
09:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 1185 points, T:2496, killed by a hobgoblin
10:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] OrtonMC (Val Hum Fem Law) murdered Panthera, her faithful kitten, on T:2082
10:11 -!- MysteryMyra has joined #hardfought
10:21 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 125 points, T:473, killed by a fox
10:25 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
10:32 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought
10:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ
10:42 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
10:48 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought
10:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ
10:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] roguery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +2 water walking boots", on T:39975
11:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] roguery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:40043
11:01 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought
11:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ
11:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] roguery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (class ;), on T:40134
11:05 <Pinkbeast> ... are we still, in 2018, genociding ; ?
11:06 <jonadab> Pinkbeast: I personally never have, but apparently there's more than one school of thought.
11:07 <jonadab> I even know one player who routinely genocides D.
11:07 <Pinkbeast> Sure, it's just the other school of thought is wrong :-)
11:07 <Pinkbeast> D at least are allowed to come and get you
11:07 <jonadab> Personally, I mainly genocide L and flayers.  Occasionally R.
11:08 <jonadab> Mostly L.
11:08 <Pinkbeast> Those seem like sensible choices (better than D, too :-)
11:08 <jonadab> Can't genocide L hard enough.
11:10 <rld> <@Tone> ; is a reasonable genocide on the plane of water if you have an extra scroll
11:11 <aosdict> Yes, ; is quite reasonable even pre-Water, if you don't want to worry about sudden drowning death.
11:11 <rld> <@Tone> or in general if you don't have a good way to avoid drowning attacks, I guess
11:11 <Pinkbeast> It's not impossible you've reached Water, have a spare scroll, and can't take any of the other effective precautions (but it is pretty unlikely)
11:11 * jonadab wants to make the Planes ignore genocide altogether.  Because they're not in the mortal world.
11:11 <Pinkbeast> Tone: You always have a good way to avoid drowning attacks before the Plane of Water.
11:11 <jonadab> (And then I want to allow elementals to be genocided elsewhere.  But only once the Planes will ignore it.)
11:12 <rld> <@Tone> I wouldn't say always
11:12 <rld> <@Tone> oh nevermind you mean at the plane of water specifically
11:12 <rld> <@Tone> It's more of a convenience thing there
11:13 <Pinkbeast> Tone: No, I mean before the plane of water you always have a good way to avoid drowning attacks.
11:13 <Pinkbeast> It is readily available and free to use.
11:13 <jonadab> Telepathy is the usual way.
11:13 <jonadab> Just stay away from the ;
11:13 <Pinkbeast> I was thinking of "don't stand next to water", but that too
11:13 <rld> <@Tone> I've been at the castle moat with pretty scarce resources before
11:13 <jonadab> There are other options, but that's the most readily available.
11:14 <jonadab> You can fill the Castle moat with boulders.
11:14 <jonadab> Medusa's is the larger issue.
11:14 <jonadab> And Juiblex'
11:14 <Pinkbeast> Tone: but not so scarce as to prevent not standing near the water, a commodity available in unlimited quantities
11:15 <rld> <@Tone> But you have to stand near water at some point to finish the game
11:15 <jonadab> Theoretically, you don't.
11:15 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought
11:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ
11:15 <jonadab> YOu can use digging, levelport, cursed gain level to avoid it.[
11:15 <jonadab> But that uses up resources.
11:15 <jonadab> And isn't always desirable.
11:15 <Pinkbeast> Tone: Not before the Plane of Water.
11:15 <rld> <@Tone> There are a few roundabout ways to avoid it, yes
11:16 <jonadab> I find it's typically easier to just put on a blindfold and levitate over the water while keeping clear of its denizens.
11:16 <Pinkbeast> But if you are going to use resources, almost any other option is better than using up a scroll of genocide. Most of the options are incredibly cheap (eg "bring a million rocks and telepathy")
11:16 <jonadab> Assuming you have telepathy.
11:17 <jonadab> Rocks would be tedious.  But there are better options.
11:17 <rld> <@Tone> I'm not even advocating to genocide ; - I never do it. But it isn't some unreasonable geno option
11:18 <Pinkbeast> I can hardly think of a worse genocide option (outside of the "on Water, got one leftover, for some reason short of every other counter" scenario).
11:18 <jonadab> Depends what you think of the downsides of genociding too many things, really.
11:18 <Pinkbeast> Literally 'x' is a better genocide option because at least grid bugs are allowed to walk to you and attack without you letting them.
11:18 <jonadab> xans are *annoying*
11:18 <winny> xans are my friends
11:18 <Pinkbeast> 'x' would be better even if there were no xans
11:19 * winny starts xan-peace org
11:19 <jonadab> Eh, you can always avoid being attacked by grid bugs.
11:19 <LarienTelrunya> Pinkbeast: anything that can instakill me deserves to be genocided, that's why L, c and ; have to go first :P
11:19 <jonadab> Unless you let yourself get cornered in a corridor or something.
11:19 <Pinkbeast> jonadab: one might trap you in a dead-end because, unlike eels - well, you can see the argument there
11:19 <LarienTelrunya> h isn't so bad, at least the intelligence points serve as a buffer for a bit ;)
11:19 <jonadab> c are too slow to be worth genociding, unless you're playing zen conduct or soemthing.
11:20 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:20 <jonadab> h are actually a good source of armor.
11:20 <LarienTelrunya> their corpses are completely immobile and still deserve being genocided :P it's not their movement speed that is deadly
11:20 <jonadab> Although by the time you can genocide, you usually don't need that any more.
11:20 <rld> <@Tone> I'd rather geno ; than spend a bunch of turns throwing rocks at stuff, personally
11:21 <Pinkbeast> I'm never quite sure about c but I've genocided them in the past. 
11:21 <rld> <@Tone> I had to geno c yesterday, didn't have a lizard corpse or potion of acid on me in gehennom
11:21 <jonadab> No gloves?
11:21 <rld> <@Tone> Was also playing a poly self game where they are particularly dangerous
11:21 <jonadab> Ah.
11:21 <jonadab> Ok, that makes sense.
11:22 <jonadab> If you have a bite attack... yeah.
11:22 <rld> <@Tone> jonadab Well I couldn't prevent stoning if their attack got through
11:22 <jonadab> ranged attacks.
11:22 <jonadab> Or just outrun them.
11:22 <Pinkbeast> I mean, LarienTelrunya's scenario where something else picks up the c corpse is worrying, but it's really nice to be able to emergency wish up a rubber chicken
11:22 <jonadab> The important thing is to be able to bag their corpse if they die.
11:22 <jonadab> Because yeah.
11:23 <rld> <@Tone> it was a low turncount game I guess I didn't want to have to worry about dealing with them
11:23 <jonadab> Pinkbeast: Only because slow-stoning isn't implemented for monsters in vanilla.  Which is a bug IMO.
11:23 <jonadab> (I don't have it in Fourk yet either; but I will when I rebase onto FIQHack.)
11:24 <LarienTelrunya> it's not only that soldiers can use the c corpse against you, but you might also e.g. overlook the c in a summon nasties swarm and accidentally skip past the "You are slowing down." message, or of course, fall prey to the temptation of picking up the corpse and then you forget that you may not move and of course there is a pit on the square you step on and DYWYPI?
11:25 <LarienTelrunya> or, worst of all, accidentally try to eat it, be lifesaved, and try to eat it again because the <censored> corpse has not been consumed even though you ate it! ARGH!
11:25 <Pinkbeast> Surely you only nibbled it?
11:26 <jonadab> You'd never be able to eat the whole thing.  You'd turn to stone before you finished.
11:26 <aosdict> Pinkbeast: The Plane of Water becomes even *more* tedious if you restrict yourself to staying away from bubble edges at all times.
11:26 <Pinkbeast> aosdict: Sure, again, if you've got the scroll spare _and_ can't use any other counter, that's another matter.
11:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] roguery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) killed Croesus, on T:40683
11:27 <aosdict> If I have the scroll spare, I'm going to use it. Why bother with them maybe wearing grease off a cloak if I could just get rid of them?
11:28 <Pinkbeast> aosdict: I'd rather keep it on the off chance I can clear a space on Astral with judicious use of it
11:28 <aosdict> For me, the condition is just whether I have blessed geno when I reach the plane of water, because there's no other time I'm going to use it.
11:28 <Pinkbeast> If priests have packed the level with ants and I don't have confused taming, hey presto, space!
11:29 <jonadab> Summon Insects is so pointlessly annoying.
11:29 <rld> <@Tone> the ants are usually quite helpful
11:31 <aosdict> Pinkbeast: I mean, then they just start summoning snakes.
11:32 <Pinkbeast> aosdict: Sure (and as Tone says I'd normally rather they were getting in the way of everything else), but there may still be a window of opportunity to make a clear patch and leg it
11:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:2973
11:36 <FIQ> only grunt and fh has slowstoning for monsters
11:36 <LarienTelrunya> summon insects is great, because I can ignore the ten million ants and just focus on the one priest adjacent to me :D
11:36 <FIQ> and only fh has it fully implemented
11:36 <LarienTelrunya> although, conflict causes the ants to quickly die anyway
11:37 <LarienTelrunya> am I the only one who finds messages like "You kill the priest of Moloch!" or "You kill the angel of Raijin!" very satisfying? ;)
11:39 <rld> <@Tone> Every enemy's death is satisfying, LarienTelrunya!
11:40 <raisse> I like it even better when the priests and angels kill each other
11:45 <LarienTelrunya> @Tone: but the death of particularly annoying enemies is especially satisfying!
11:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] jailbird (Con Vam Mal Cha), 16624 points, T:5952, killed by a mumak
11:46 <LarienTelrunya> nalfeshnees are also a monster where it's always a huge relief if they die :D
11:46 <Pinkbeast> fucking orc priests wait no wrong game
11:53 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
12:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] roguery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:42617
12:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] samiam (Arc Hum Mal Law), 906 points, T:2003, killed by a water demon
12:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:6854
12:39 <aosdict> YANI: Extension to the various generalized-chat-system ideas: Chatting to peacefuls of your race (and with more difficulty, intelligent peacefuls of your alignment) and have a Charisma-based chance of taming them.
12:40 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought
12:40 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v remirol] by ChanServ
12:40 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
12:41 <bug_sniper_> evil patch idea: if your chr is low, talking to people has a chance to make them hostile, including priests and shopkeepers
12:48 -!- kozet has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:02 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
13:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) made her first wish - "3 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:8481
13:07 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
13:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 7934 points, T:9010, killed by a fire ant
13:17 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed]
13:24 -!- kozet has joined #hardfought
13:30 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
13:44 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought
13:44 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought
13:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:2274
13:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:2339
13:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 2056 points, T:2613, killed by a soldier ant
13:56 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought
13:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ
14:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] rikersan (Mys Ang Mal Neu), 108167 points, T:8207, killed by a monster (demonic black widow)
14:12 <rld> <@rikersan> !tell LarienTelrunya: YANI: banishing takes you to 100-prevlvl in gehennom, i.e. if you get banished on dlvl 7 you go to gehennom 93
14:12 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, @rikersan.
14:12 <LarienTelrunya> @rikersan: yay you're playing slex! ♥ however, banishment is supposed to warp you to a random level from 1-100; I'm not planning to change that
14:12 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from @rikersan at 2018-11-20 14:12 EST: YANI: banishing takes you to 100-prevlvl in gehennom, i.e. if you get banished on dlvl 7 you go to gehennom 93
14:12 <rld> <@rikersan> ye I was playing last nigth
14:12 <rld> <@rikersan> and I got banished from dlvl 7
14:13 <rld> <@rikersan> as a lvl 12 mystic
14:13 <rld> <@rikersan> amy please
14:13 <rld> <@rikersan> might try another angel chevalier but caitiffing does suck
14:13 <LarienTelrunya> ?
14:13 <LarienTelrunya> I'd expect you to be glad that banishment doesn't always take you to 93 if you're on 7...
14:13 <rld> <@rikersan> oh no
14:13 <rld> <@rikersan> I went to 96 amy
14:13 <rld> <@rikersan> lmao
14:14 <rld> <@rikersan> check my dumplog
14:14 <rld> <@rikersan> !lastgame rikersan
14:14 <Beholder> @rikersan: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/slex/dumplog/1529081896.slex.txt
14:14 <rld> <@rikersan> er apparetnyl I went to 97 I'd gone up 1 level
14:14 <rld> <@rikersan> but no I just think that would be more !fun!
14:14 <rld> <@rikersan> amy: chevalier vs paladin?
14:14 <LarienTelrunya> uhh chevalier I'd say, paladin has even worse caitiff restrictions and stuff
14:15 <rld> <@rikersan> hm ok
14:15 <rld> <@rikersan> trying ordinator first tho
14:15 <LarienTelrunya> anyway banishment works as intended :P
14:15 <rld> <@rikersan> -1 should be eviler but ok
14:17 <rld> <@rikersan> hey amy can droven bolts rust if I poison via toilet
14:17 <rld> <@rikersan> hey hold up can i take things from my pet
14:17 <rld> <@rikersan> cuz I wanted that mummy wrapping but my dancing girl has it
14:18 <LarienTelrunya> droven bolts are made of glass, which isn't subject to any erosion
14:19 <LarienTelrunya> I planned to make an extended command that makes your pet drop its stuff but that's not implemented yet :(
14:20 <rld> <@rikersan> > The spoon flashes brightly as it hits the gnomish caster.
14:20 <rld> <@rikersan> does that mean anything
14:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 9065 points, T:3075, killed by an invisible rabid rat
14:22 <rld> <@rikersan> wait angels have intrinsic MR right
14:22 <rld> <@rikersan> cuz i have scale mail of MR vs plate mail
14:22 <LarienTelrunya> angels have MR, yes
14:22 <LarienTelrunya> was that an artifact spoon? if yes, it probably instakilled the gnomish caster
14:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 66 points, T:122, killed by a jackal
14:24 <rld> <@rikersan> larien: no it didn't kill and no it's not houchou or any arti spoon
14:24 <rld> <@rikersan> I still have it
14:24 <rld> <@rikersan> also how far do level beamers tele
14:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 350 points, T:102, fell into a pit of iron spikes
14:27 <LarienTelrunya> up to (deepest level visited + 3) if I'm not mistaken
14:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 335 points, T:77, killed by a wererat, while praying
14:30 <rld> <@rikersan> > These gauntlets may or may not be made of silver.
14:30 <rld> <@rikersan> amy is this supposed to be funny or is it really a 50/50
14:30 <rld> <@rikersan> I think it's silver this game at least cuz they're 'stainless" when I read proof armor on them
14:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1047
14:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 327 points, T:164, killed by a green mold
14:31 <rld> <@rikersan> also is Dracula's Wish a fake or real arti (oil lamp)
14:31 <LarienTelrunya> it's actually a (low chance) in (high chance), because the material depends on its random appearance
14:31 <LarienTelrunya> fake arti
14:31 <rld> <@rikersan> looks fake
14:31 <rld> <@rikersan> ok
14:31 <rld> <@rikersan> any special effects of a fake arti tool?
14:31 <LarienTelrunya> do the in-game descriptions not tell you anything? if it's properly identified as an oil lamp it should say that it's fake?
14:32 <LarienTelrunya> IIRC the fake artifacts are less likely to be subjected to erosion, but I might be mis-remembering; maybe it's actually irrelevant for tools
14:32 <rld> <@rikersan> no
14:32 <rld> <@rikersan> I price id'd in izchak
14:32 <rld> <@rikersan> in minetown atm
14:32 <rld> <@rikersan> (its' 150 with cha 6)
14:32 <LarienTelrunya> ...
14:32 <LarienTelrunya> You can't price-id in slex.
14:32 <rld> <@rikersan> is a 150 price bag with cha 6 just a sack or is it actually good
14:32 <LarienTelrunya> they all cost the same :P
14:33 <rld> <@rikersan> relaly?
14:33 <rld> <@rikersan> I thought magic was worth a fuckton more
14:33 <LarienTelrunya> yes
14:33 <LarienTelrunya> in vanilla, yes, but in slex you can't price-id
14:33 <rld> <@rikersan> anyway it's either 2 magic lamps or 2 plain, I type named
14:33 <rld> <@rikersan> scratch that either 3 magic lamps or 3 plain
14:33 <rld> <@rikersan> I'm gonna assume its' plain
14:33 <LarienTelrunya> yes, probably
14:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] roguery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) genocided class L, on T:45333
14:34 <LarienTelrunya> both lamp types cost 100 base in slex, and oil is 2.5 times as likely as magic
14:34 <rld> <@rikersan> what is a treasure chest
14:34 <LarienTelrunya> it's a very heavy container that you probably cannot lift but which may contain lots of random items if you manage to open it
14:34 <rld> <@rikersan> damnit it's in the shop
14:34 <rld> <@rikersan> has a full plate mail too
14:34 <rld> <@rikersan> are leather bags always digestion
14:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] roguery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) genocided class h, on T:45335
14:35 <LarienTelrunya> leather bags are always medical kits, which you can't put stuff into; trying to apply one causes you to swallow a pill and feel deathly sick, or sometimes other effects can happen too
14:35 <rld> <@rikersan> ah I see
14:35 <rld> <@rikersan> well its' $819 so how about no
14:35 <LarienTelrunya> only healers can use them reliably, in which case they will instead cure sickness
14:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 604 points, T:270, killed by an iguana
14:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] roguery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) genocided disenchanter, on T:45336
14:50 -!- kozet has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
14:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 1322 points, T:2265, killed by a balrog
14:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 19 points, T:135, killed by a newt
14:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 98 points, T:95, killed by a water moccasin
15:02 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought
15:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ
15:03 <rld> <@rikersan> hey amy what exactly does superscrolling do
15:03 <rld> <@rikersan> it seems very annoying
15:03 <rld> <@rikersan> this banded mail seems to grant MR and refleciton but the superscrolling is bugging me
15:03 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
15:03 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
15:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 2516 points, T:2317, killed by a homunculus, while sleeping
15:07 <LarienTelrunya> @rikersan: superscrolling is ultra annoying, yeah
15:07 <rld> <@rikersan> ok cool
15:07 <LarienTelrunya> there's also a player who ragequit an otherwise promising run over it
15:08 <rld> <@rikersan> LOL
15:09 <rld> <@rikersan> amy are tsurugis or runeswords "swords" for the purposes of fencing gloves?
15:11 <rld> <@rikersan> oh great bags of holding are always cursed this game
15:11 <LarienTelrunya> yes, everything that uses the short, broad, long or two-handed sword skill and also everything that uses the scimitar, saber or dagger skills benefits from fencing gloves
15:11 <AntiGulp> K2 reported a bug about a monster disappearing in Splice, and i just discovered the monster in question doesn’t just disappear, it vanishes with a custom “The %s vanishes!” message. What the heck is happening
15:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 376 points, T:186, killed by a violet fungus
15:12 <rld> <@rikersan> oh cool thanks
15:12 <LarienTelrunya> yay my lovely fleecy AntiGulp is here! ♥♥♥ *bundlebundlebundle* grep the source for occasions of that vanish message to find out where it happens ;)
15:13 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: First I ever heard of fencing with daggers.
15:13 <AntiGulp> Hi Amy <3
15:13 <AntiGulp> grepping was the first thing I tried. Down the rabbit hole I go…
15:14 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: it's slex, it doesn't have to make sense :D daggers look a bit like little swords IMHO, which is why the fencing gloves work for them too
15:14 <aosdict> AntiGulp: I suspect it's "%s vanishes", not "The %s vanishes"
15:14 <AntiGulp> no yeah it is
15:14 <rld> <@rikersan> larien: shoudl I use my +4 tsurugi or a +3 runesword w/ +1 orcish shield
15:14 <rld> <@rikersan> chance ot block is 20% if it matters
15:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] samiam (Arc Hum Mal Law), 936 points, T:2349, killed by an iguana, while frozen by a monster's gaze
15:15 <LarienTelrunya> tsurugi does way more damage and as an ordinator you don't have the shield skill; on the other hand, the class sucks for defense so the shield might help, especially if you're facing things that you can't kill quickly enough with the tsurugi
15:15 <rld> <@rikersan> also if a gray stone does not autocurse and is not cursed when I find it, and it's at mine's end, does that mean it's a luckstone
15:16 <rld> <@rikersan> or flint I guess
15:16 <rld> <@rikersan> larien: hm ok, I'll try using the tsurugi for now
15:16 <LarienTelrunya> if it gives a full-screen message it's a luckstone, otherwise it's probably flint, especially if it was the catacombs mines end
15:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) murdered Montu, her faithful kitten, on T:1790
15:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 293 points, T:642, killed by a dwarf
15:17 <rld> <@rikersan> uh hm hey amy what are the odds of me killing juiblex without a source of curing ill/slime
15:17 <rld> <@rikersan> also TIL angels count as human for same-race sac
15:17 <rld> <@rikersan> larien: full screen message? none of those
15:17 <LarienTelrunya> probably flint then
15:17 <rld> <@rikersan> it's khor's orc temple thing
15:18 <LarienTelrunya> yeah that one has a guaranteed flint stone
15:18 <LarienTelrunya> no scrolls of cure? those would cure sickness too if you have them
15:18 <LarienTelrunya> but if you don't have a repeatable sickness cure I'd get the hell off the level if I were you
15:18 <rld> <@rikersan> I just did to cure slime + ill from a starlit sky
15:19 <rld> <@rikersan> ok cool I'm oiut
15:20 <AntiGulp> !tell K2 It turns out that the Rider bug you found is actually an intentional part of the code, just an incredibly obscure corner case. I’ll explain in the github issue.
15:20 <Beholder> Will do, AntiGulp!
15:20 <LarienTelrunya> and you have a wand of summon sexy girl *heartheartheart* :)
15:20 <rld> <@rikersan> yes
15:21 <rld> <@rikersan> taking a break now amy
15:21 <LarienTelrunya> alright
15:21 -!- noty has joined #hardfought
15:22 <LarienTelrunya> you seem to have completed the mines rather quick, with only about 4k turns on the clock
15:22 <K2> AntiGulp thanks
15:22 <Beholder> K2: Message from AntiGulp at 2018-11-20 15:20 EST: It turns out that the Rider bug you found is actually an intentional part of the code, just an incredibly obscure corner case. I’ll explain in the github issue.
15:23 -!- Yasdorian has joined #hardfought
15:24 <stenno\o1tc> Yasdorian :o
15:24 <Yasdorian> heya 
15:24 <stenno\o1tc> long time not seen
15:24 <Yasdorian> just briefly when junethack was about to start this year i guess
15:25 <Yasdorian> couldn't get myself into the dungeoneering mood i'm afraid
15:25 <stenno\o1tc> fair :P
15:25 <Yasdorian> been a struggle since 2016
15:25 <stenno\o1tc> i have been on a quasi-hiatus for the last years too
15:25 <stenno\o1tc> yeah same
15:25 <Yasdorian> i guess i could say i left the arena as a complete winner, huah hah
15:25 <rld> <@rikersan> amy I'm making myself some lunch real quick and I'll come back
15:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 1082 points, T:2041, killed by a dingo
15:25 <stenno\o1tc> oh yeah!
15:25 <rld> <@rikersan> larien: hey I'm keeping that turn count limit in mind lma
15:26 <rld> <@rikersan> also there were many nasty passive monsters that I had to run from (sucker spores, crap jellies, I also lost like 1k gold on mine's end to a passive spore with a gold theft)
15:26 <K2> hi Yasdorian
15:26 <[Demo]2> ur a sucker spore
15:27 <Yasdorian> heya K2 :)
15:27 <K2> o/
15:28 <LarienTelrunya> @rikersan: alright, I'll be here :)
15:28 <Yasdorian> trying to make a slow comeback to miserable mazes of menace :p
15:28 <K2> the dungeon awaits ;)
15:28 <stenno\o1tc> Yasdorian: you gonna play in TNNT?
15:28 <LarienTelrunya> Yasdorian: as I already said in the other channel, play slex *bundlebundlebundle* (and call me a stupid Amy :D)
15:28 <Yasdorian> what's tnnt
15:29 <Yasdorian> see, i'm total dropout
15:29 <K2> the november nethack tournament
15:29 <Yasdorian> i guess devnull isn't a thing anymore then
15:29 <K2> nope
15:29 <K2> :/
15:29 <Yasdorian> no suprise there
15:29 <K2> https://www.hardfought.org/tnnt
15:29 <stenno\o1tc> tnnt > /dev/null
15:29 <aosdict> !rng drink gain level to do quest | do castle instead
15:29 <Beholder> aosdict: do castle instead
15:30 <Yasdorian> oh wait, it IS november already
15:30 <stenno\o1tc> :|
15:30 <K2> hah
15:30 <Yasdorian> i lost track on time after i started working in my current job :D
15:30 <aosdict> meh I have a cursed potion of invisibility so I want to do the quest
15:30 <K2> reminds me of when i'd be on a deployment. we'd lose track of days and weeks
15:30 <K2> xmas would go by, didnt notice
15:31 <Yasdorian> i guess it's better not to notice such things if you're away from home anyway
15:32 <Yasdorian> is tnnt current version of nethack only
15:32 <stenno\o1tc> 3.6.2 + x
15:32 <K2> 3.6.2 beta channel plus some custom content
15:32 <K2> but it doesnt affect core mechanics
15:33 <K2> have added to, but have not changed or taken away
15:33 <Yasdorian> oh dear, i think i never played 3.6 seriously
15:33 <Yasdorian> just to grab a few trophies during junethack or something
15:33 <stenno\o1tc> 3.6.2 is _so_ much better than 3.6.0
15:33 <stenno\o1tc> 3.6.2 is better than 3.4.3
15:33 <stenno\o1tc> 3.4.3-NAO that is
15:33 <Yasdorian> that's a bold thing to say
15:34 <Yasdorian> not that there wasn't much room for improvements
15:34 <stenno\o1tc> ikr but it's really like that
15:34 <K2> stenno is a bold kind of guy
15:34 <Yasdorian> but being fixated to earlier kind of elberething-to-win, i shudder a bit about going in right now
15:34 <stenno\o1tc> Indeed
15:35 <Yasdorian> (drumroll)
15:35 <K2> elbereth is a crutch
15:35 <LarienTelrunya> Yasdorian: well I absolutely prefer 3.4.3, but if even a noob like me can win 3.6.x then you can do so too :D
15:35 <K2> you dont need it
15:35 <Yasdorian> so stuff has been nerfed down to the ground then?
15:38 <stenno\o1tc> balanced, not nerfed!
15:39 <K2> fair and balanced
15:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 223 points, T:1030, killed by a boulder
15:45 <Yasdorian> balanced sounds fun
15:46 <K2> AntiGulp just read your response to the Riders and their steed disappearing thing
15:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] OrtonMC (Val Hum Fem Law), 4201 points, T:4072, killed by a dwarf
15:46 <AntiGulp> :D
15:46 <K2> wouldnt it be cool if the Rider's sought to re-mount their horses?
15:46 <AntiGulp> That would be SUPER cool
15:47 <AntiGulp> I should add that
15:47 <K2> also, something i noticed with the Horses
15:47 <AntiGulp> In general, I want to expand the monster riding mechanic a lot. So far, it’s used very sparingly.
15:47 <K2> they're a valid poly form
15:47 <K2> they prob shouldnt be
15:47 <K2> needs M2_NOPOLY
15:47 <AntiGulp> That would explain why chameleons keep turning into them. Thanks, I’ll fix that right away.
15:48 <K2> AntiGulp: i incorporated your monsters riding steeds code into the variant i am working on. love that bit
15:48 <K2> look for k21971/EvilHack on github
15:48 <K2> i've made a couple other monster/steed combos using your code
15:49 * AntiGulp crosses fingers that all the save corruption bugs have been fixed
15:49 <AntiGulp> I was planning on patching something in to avoid interface screw, such as highlighting riding monsters.
15:49 <K2> something else i noticed - using farlook, you'll see monster X riding monster Y
15:50 <K2> but wand of probing or stethoscope doesnt show that
15:50 <AntiGulp> Huh. I’ll take a look a that.
15:50 <stenno\o1tc> Yasdorian: you were a spork player too right?
15:50 <K2> another cool thing: option to choose which monster to attack, rider or steed
15:50 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought
15:50 <AntiGulp> Is EvilHack an evil variant?
15:51 <K2> and would something like a fireball or cone of cold or exploding gas spore affect both rider and steed or just the rider?
15:51 <Yasdorian> stenno\o1tc: not really, but i played it up to gehennom once, i think
15:51 <K2> AntiGulp its my attempt to merge the best parts of grunthack and sporkhack onto 3.6.2
15:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] samiam (Arc Hum Mal Law), 542 points, T:1079, killed by a newt
15:51 <stenno\o1tc> oh ok
15:51 <K2> plus some other bits
15:52 <aosdict> I still don't get why that name was picked. It makes everyone annoyingly ask "so you're trying to make the Evil Variant?"
15:52 <K2> well
15:52 <K2> compared to everything else it will be evil
15:52 <LarienTelrunya> even compared to slex's evilvariant mode? :D
15:52 <K2> 'hardcorehack' didnt have a good ring to it
15:52 <LarienTelrunya> (which no one except me ever plays?)
15:53 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
15:53 <AntiGulp> Slex is already so hard tho
15:53 <stenno\o1tc> slex is randomhard
15:53 <stenno\o1tc> spork is hardhard
15:53 <stenno\o1tc> grunt is randomhard too
15:54 <K2> when i'm done, i think 'evilhack' will be a fitting name
15:54 <stenno\o1tc> well it surely can't be _that_ evil to include spork nazgul
15:54 <stenno\o1tc> i mean that would be too evil
15:54 <stenno\o1tc> clearly
15:54 <AntiGulp> K2: Attacking individual parts would be sweet. As for explosions… I think it only affects the rider? Theoretically it should affect both, but I had to do some major monkeying with the code to get steeds to share their rider’s spaces, and they exist in this sort of “simultaneously on and off the map” limbo.
15:54 <K2> its already in
15:55 <AntiGulp> What are spork nazgul like?
15:55 <K2> they ride a fell beast
15:55 <stenno\o1tc> AntiGulp: shout stun attack which doesn't need LOS
15:55 <K2> and they can scream like in sporkhack/unnethack
15:55 <K2> stenno\o1tc I fixed that
15:55 <K2> in my version
15:55 <stenno\o1tc> yeah unnethack nazgul are nerfed 
15:55 <stenno\o1tc> oh ok
15:55 <AntiGulp> From a developer standpoint that sounds awesome, but from a player standpoint… oof.
15:55 <bug_sniper_> I hope evilhack lets you find rings of magic resistance and free action on the same ring
15:55 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> apply unicorn horn
15:56 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> Take one step
15:56 <stenno\o1tc> i was very sad when i got stunlocked on astral
15:56 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> apply unicorn horn
15:56 <K2> i do plan on bringing in grunthack object properties
15:56 <K2> i may tweak it though
15:56 <K2> so its not so over the top
15:56 <LarienTelrunya> why would sound require LOS? if someone behind the wall that I'm staring at right now were to scream, I'd hear it loud and clearly :P
15:56 <AntiGulp> That reminds me, I wanted to port object properties. Though also not so over the top
15:56 <K2> dual wielding artifact weapons is in
15:56 <rld> <@Luxcalibur> Don’t you like it being over the top k2
15:57 <K2> even i have limits
15:57 <K2> :P
15:57 <K2> AntiGulp stenno\o1tc - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/bffbf698ff0990d80d8467ed132f62f6ba745b58
15:58 <stenno\o1tc> ooh thats nice with the steed
15:58 * AntiGulp steals
15:58 <K2> ;)
15:58 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought
15:59 <K2> there are one or two more tweaks after the fact AntiGulp, you'll want to look for those
15:59 -!- Guthix has joined #hardfought
15:59 <rld> <@rikersan> larien: back
15:59 <LarienTelrunya> @rikersan: yay! unfortunately I need to go to bed soon though
15:59 <rld> <@rikersan> tha'ts cool
15:59 <aosdict> Does the Nazgul scream use mspec_used so they can't do it over and over and over and over again?
15:59 <AntiGulp> Will do, K2. Definitely check in on Splice in the future, since I’ll probably clean up some of the riding bugs.
16:00 <stenno\o1tc> in spork they do it much more often than in un
16:00 <stenno\o1tc> i think in spork it was every 2-3 turns (might be my bias though :P)
16:00 <K2> nice AntiGulp will do
16:00 <aosdict> I'm OK with nazgul scream stunning if they can't scream and them immediately scream again.
16:00 <rld> <@rikersan> can a runesword rust amy
16:00 <K2> stenno\o1tc yeah in sporkhack the nazgul scream is ridiculous
16:00 <K2> its been dialed back a fair amount in my implementation
16:01 <LarienTelrunya> @rikersan: the in-game description should tell you its material :D if it's wood, which I'd expect it to be, it can't
16:01 <K2> i am also considering implementing earmuffs from splicehack as a counter
16:01 <stenno\o1tc> ooh thats awesome!
16:01 <K2> or you could use a regular drum to make your deaf
16:01 <rld> <@rikersan> ah nah it's iron
16:01 <stenno\o1tc> finally being deaf can be actively used
16:01 <AntiGulp> I still have to make earmuffs tools
16:01 <AntiGulp> Being deaf is actually pretty good in Splice, considering some of the sonic monsters.
16:01 <stenno\o1tc> i guess then even the LOS-less variant would be less insane
16:02 <K2> aosdict yes mspec_used is there
16:02 <Guthix> deaf is good for cockatrices right?
16:02 <Guthix> so you can't hear their hiss
16:02 <stenno\o1tc> i think you will still get petrified?
16:02 <K2> yeah pretty sure
16:02 <rld> <@rikersan> hey amy I found a magic lamp i believe
16:02 <aosdict> Guthix: yeah common misconception
16:02 <Guthix> rip
16:02 <rld> <@rikersan> did you change them
16:03 <LarienTelrunya> @rikersan: yes, wishes are much less likely, they can occasionally give other good effects when you'd have gotten a wish in vanilla
16:03 <stenno\o1tc> does magic marker still cost 50 in spork?
16:03 <rld> <@rikersan> damn ok
16:03 <K2> stenno\o1tc not sure. in sporkhack the only way to get a magic marker is to wish for it
16:03 <stenno\o1tc> zomg
16:04 <K2> in at leats one of my spork asc, i never used a marker
16:04 <K2> was rough
16:04 <K2> *least
16:04 <stenno\o1tc> i mean it is a super OP item
16:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 31 points, T:428, killed by a jackal
16:07 -!- Guthix has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:08 <rld> <@rikersan> oh sweet wand of ful helaing
16:09 <Yasdorian> genocideless is worth more points than wishless?
16:09 <Yasdorian> that's news
16:09 <aosdict> @rikersan Does it summon the goddess Hela to rampage around for you?
16:09 <LarienTelrunya> @rikersan: yay! it restores less than the potion but is still rather powerful
16:09 <rld> <@rikersan> listen I'm bad at typing aosdict
16:10 <rld> <@rikersan> don't judge
16:11 <rld> <@rikersan> aw shit cannibal
16:11 <rld> <@rikersan> what' sthat do in slex amy
16:11 <LarienTelrunya> sadly I really need to cure my sleep deprivation now though; see you rikersan, and good luck in your run!
16:11 -!- MysteryMyra has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
16:11 <LarienTelrunya> well it gives aggravate monster, which unlike the vanilla version of that actually does bad things
16:11 <rld> <@rikersan> damnit
16:11 <rld> <@rikersan> ok night amy!
16:12 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Sleep-bundle-wing! :-)]
16:14 <aosdict> There appears to be a chameleon embedded in the middle of nowhere rock.
16:15 <stenno\o1tc> ex-xorn
16:15 <rld> <@Tone> Yasdorian Yeah wishless is kind of undervalued in TNNT I think
16:15 <aosdict> Maybe it was in xorn form and then I put on my ring of protection from shape changers
16:15 <rld> <@rikersan> !tell LarienTelrunya I rubbed the lamp to see if it was magic, it gave me a peaceful dao, but it also gave me an empty bottle (like a smoky potion would). feeling that's a bug.
16:15 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, @rikersan.
16:15 <rld> <@Tone> When you count the point for arti wishless it has the same point value as geno though
16:15 <Yasdorian> is wishing somehow dramatically nerfed since 343
16:16 <Yasdorian> i always thought genocideless was nearly automatic conduct
16:16 <rld> <@Tone> Wishing hasn't changed in any significant way that I can think of
16:16 <stenno\o1tc> not wishing
16:16 <stenno\o1tc> vlad is now the second-fastest monster in the game
16:17 <Yasdorian> after.. umh.. air elementals?
16:17 <Yasdorian> also why, it was fun to beat him up with an apple
16:17 <rld> <@Tone> He actually requires some preparation to fight now
16:18 <stenno\o1tc> he is respectably strong now
16:18 <Yasdorian> about time
16:18 <Yasdorian> but is genocideless somehow related to vlad though
16:19 <Yasdorian> or just independent random note
16:20 -!- Glord has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 219 points, T:789, killed by a small mimic
16:21 <stenno\o1tc> random side not
16:21 <stenno\o1tc> e
16:21 <stenno\o1tc> regarding 3.6 changes
16:21 <rld> <@Tone> btw I'd bet that fewer than 50% of ascensions keep genoless
16:21 <rld> <@Tone> It would be interesting to see the actual stats on some of those
16:22 <Yasdorian> stenno\o1tc: interesting fact anyway :D
16:22 <Yasdorian> well, if you don't care about conducts at all, it's just easy to break it
16:23 <Yasdorian> didn't really affect gameplay much at all in 343 not to break it
16:23 <Yasdorian> more like a quality of life choice, with all those mind flayers and liches around
16:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] gunnervi (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1590 points, T:2749, killed by a wolf, while frozen by a monster's gaze
16:23 <stenno\o1tc> on NAO, for 3.6.1 we have 94 geno wins of 627 total wins
16:23 <rld> <@rikersan> > you could not have this property at all: magic resistance
16:23 <rld> <@rikersan> that explains a lot
16:23 <rld> <@Tone> For most players, it means that you get harassed a lot more by liches in gehennom, and have to be careful around mind flayers
16:23 <rld> <@rikersan> > Ring identification only worked 4 times out of 21.
16:24 <rld> <@rikersan> so does that
16:24 <Yasdorian> is this rld entity somekind of bridge from elsewhere to irc or something
16:24 <rld> <@Tone> Even less than I thought, thanks stenno
16:24 <rld> <@Tone> Yes we are on discord
16:24 <Yasdorian> figures :)
16:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] rikersan (Ord Ang Mal Cha), 83300 points, T:7092, killed by a monster (Azmodan)
16:25 <Yasdorian> some public server for this particular channel?
16:25 <rld> <@rikersan> nah, server for r/roguelikes
16:25 <rld> <@Tone> It's a partnership with a larger server for roguelikes
16:25 <rld> <@rikersan> this is the #nethack-hardfought channel on this end
16:26 <rld> <@Tone> It's also a great way for me to talk to you while I should be working 😄
16:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] steveyo (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 1346 points, T:1593, killed by an Uruk-hai
16:39 <Yasdorian> good point with magic resistance anyway, iirc there was huge rework on magic cancellation too?
16:40 <rld> <@Tone> Not quite a huge rework, but armor isn't as generous with it, and MC3 isn't quite as effective at resisting as it used to be (it's approx 90% now)
16:41 <rld> <@Tone> And Rings of protection can increase your MC by 1
16:41 <stenno\o1tc> The succubus seems dismayed at your lack of response.
16:43 <aosdict> Yasdorian: Magic resistance isn't changed, rikersan is talking about his slex game
16:45 -!- stenno\o1tc is now known as stenno\ootc
16:46 <Yasdorian> oh ok
16:46 <Yasdorian> anyway, stuff with mc seems a bit huge since it actually makes it a thing now
16:46 <Yasdorian> earlier you could just forget about it 
16:46 <stenno\ootc> it's actually not that terrible
16:48 <Yasdorian> wasn't with mc2 in your ascension kit earlier even, so shrug
16:48 <stenno\ootc> You destroy the wraith!  Welcome to experience level 9.
16:49 <[Demo]2> nice
16:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] jailbird (Con Vam Mal Cha) killed the ghost of vid, the former Adept, on T:5501
16:50 <rld> <@Tone> Yasdorian It sounds way worse on paper than it actually is
16:51 <rld> <@Tone> I thought it woukd be a huge change but I regularly ascend with MC1 now
16:51 <rld> <@Tone> You just have to be a little more careful around certain monsters
16:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] jailbird (Con Vam Mal Cha) killed the ghost of ranlhach2, the former Jail-bird, on T:5522
16:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:32462
17:03 <stenno\ootc> well.
17:11 -!- kozet has joined #hardfought
17:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 672 points, T:1439, killed by a watchman
17:19 <Pinkbeast> umount /scratch
17:22 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: explodes into confetti]
17:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed wand of polymorph", on T:33924
17:23 -!- kozet has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
17:23 <Pinkbeast> ... ooops
17:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:34070
17:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) wished for "blessed greased bag of holding", on T:34729
17:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +3 gauntlets of power", on T:34730
17:50 <Chris_ANG> YANI: Charm Monster/Dominate Monster split: Change Charm Monster to use the temporary pet code from the Bard patch, introduce a new, high level spell called Dominate Monster that does the old Charm Monster effect.
17:51 <Chris_ANG> (Dominate Monster is from D&D, and is a more powerful mind-control spell)
17:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] brentyl (Val Hum Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:2652
17:52 <Chris_ANG> The reason for this is to convert charm monster into a spell that you're supposed to cast frequently at select targets, which can take them out of the fight or turn them on your foes.
17:52 <aosdict> What exactly does the temporary pet code entail?
17:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] brentyl (Val Hum Fem Law), 3125 points, T:3321, killed by a snake
18:00 <Chris_ANG> They stay tame for x number of turns, then revert to whatever state they were in before (peaceful if peaceful, hostile if hostile)
18:00 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought
18:00 <Chris_ANG> It has something of an odd use in the Bard patch, bc it's AoE instead of targeted.
18:01 <Chris_ANG> So *all* your enemies turn tame for a few rounds, then go back to eating your face.
18:01 <aosdict> well, vanilla charm monster is also aoe
18:02 <Chris_ANG> Yeah.  Though, if memory serves, it only affects adjacent creatures, right?
18:03 <jilles> yes
18:03 <Chris_ANG> I mean, vanilla charm monster is basically cheating.  Or at least, it was in 3.4.3
18:03 <jilles> a confused scroll of taming has a wider area of effect
18:03 <Chris_ANG> Effectively AoE instadeath, only better.
18:04 <aosdict> Well, it's still resistable, but that's a weak argument.
18:05 -!- lel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
18:06 <Chris_ANG> I feel like a lot of stuff in vanilla has very low MR.
18:06 <Chris_ANG> Though, it is true that it won't solve an Archlich.
18:07 <Chris_ANG> And it's dicey against mind flayers.
18:07 -!- lel has joined #hardfought
18:08 -!- remirol is now known as lorimer
18:09 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
18:25 -!- aoei has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:26 <aosdict> Chris_ANG: Also, I don't think it's really changed at all since 3.4.3, so it's still "basically cheating" :D
18:29 <Chris_ANG> The basic line of thinking is that it would be nice if there was more incentive to vary what spells you're casting.  A targeted temporary charm monster effect would at least keep you looking for nasty targets to turn on your foes.
18:33 <jilles> most charm monster pets either die quickly or are quickly abandoned
18:34 <[Demo]2> dnh bard should have no pet limit lol
18:39 <[Demo]2> actually that would just buff inc and clkwk even more nevermind
18:39 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought
18:51 <rld> <@rikersan> lmao
18:51 <rld> <@rikersan> chris: I like the pacify monster change
19:25 -!- Xaleth has joined #hardfought
19:41 -!- aoei has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:45 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit []
19:47 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought
19:51 <rumflump> evening y'all
19:59 <rumflump> is the custom/new content in the tourney explained anywhere?
20:02 -!- Glord has joined #hardfought
20:04 <rld> <@rikersan> !tell Beholder does this work?
20:04 <Beholder> Will do, @rikersan!
20:04 <rld> <@rikersan> !tell Beholder hm
20:04 <Beholder> Will do, @rikersan!
20:20 <aosdict> hi rumflump! the wiki page has some info and the source is public but there's no official writeup
20:21 <rumflump> ah,of course
20:48 <aosdict> how have you been doing? haven't seen you around lately
20:48 <rumflump> fairly good
20:50 <rumflump> i've been getting into ecstatic dance, and cooking food for 80 people on the regular
20:51 <rumflump> playing a lot of a board game called Macao
20:51 <rumflump> how's novembourney?
20:52 <aosdict> turnout good so far, and feedback seems positive
20:52 <aosdict> there are kings to iron out of course, but we expected that
20:52 <aosdict> *kinks
20:52 <aosdict> pfft
20:53 -!- unsound has joined #hardfought
20:53 <rumflump> yah, iron those fuckers
20:54 <[Demo]2> oh yo what up
20:54 <aosdict> l'etat, c'est nous
20:54 <aosdict> vive la revolution
21:14 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
21:27 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought
21:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ
21:36 -!- kozet has joined #hardfought
21:36 <rld> <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG where did dread seraphs come from?
21:36 <Beholder> I'm on it, @rikersan.
21:49 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
21:50 <aosdict> !rng ludios castle
21:50 <Beholder> aosdict: ludios
21:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh4] tizakit (Sam Hum Mal Law), 40528 points, T:3372, killed by an invisible red dragon
21:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 514 points, T:1267, killed by a little dog
22:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:817
22:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1684
22:18 <aosdict> I'm pretty sure invoking the blessed Master Key of Thievery to disarm a land mine shouldn't give the "it's too difficult to disarm" message.
22:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 876 points, T:1897, killed by a hill orc
22:20 <Andrio> Land mines don't have locks though.
22:24 <Andrio> But it did seem od
22:24 <Andrio> d
22:24 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought
22:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Chris_ANG] by ChanServ
22:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:34954
23:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] lunatunez (Con Hum Mal Cha), 131 points, T:507, killed by falling downstairs
23:06 -!- attie has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) bribed Asmodeus with 17 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:35453
23:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) genocided class c, on T:35455
23:10 -!- attie has joined #hardfought
23:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) bribed Baalzebub with 25 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:35653
23:15 -!- Muad has joined #hardfought
23:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) killed Orcus, on T:35860
23:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:36074
23:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:36075
23:26 <Menche> huh I have extrinsic telepathy
23:26 <Menche> no amulet though
23:26 <Menche> the helmet?
23:26 <Menche> oh cool the helmet confers telepathy
23:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) wished for "blessed drum of earthquake", on T:36532
23:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:36536
23:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:36538
23:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:36538
23:37 <Andrio> A helm of telepathy does indeed confer telepathy.
23:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:36577
23:39 * Menche considers that ID'd now
23:43 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
23:43 <aosdict> Welp, there's the entire castle woken up due to someone inside casting spells I can't see.
23:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible high priest of Moloch, on T:36790
23:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:36793
23:53 <aosdict> The soldier puts on a mummy wrapping. "I'm a trendsetter!"
23:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:37683
23:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] CropperS (Pri Hum Mal Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:37754