00:03 Sooo what's the process for configuring the source after you add an item to the game again? 00:03 configuring? 00:03 uh, makedefs? 00:04 Yeah that's what I thought 00:04 that happens automatically with make though 00:04 Yeah, that's also what I thought 00:04 The "dungeon description not valid" message... might that be fixed with a make spotless; make all? 00:05 possibly 00:05 Nooop 00:07 I remember this happening last time I tried to add a new item 00:07 I don't remember how I fixed the problem 00:09 that seems to be a version compatibility problem 00:10 did you touch patchlevel.h at all? 00:10 No 00:10 The only files I touched were objects.c and zap.c 00:10 and you're not trying to load a save, right? 00:10 cause adding new objects would break a save 00:10 No, I'm trying to start a new file. 00:12 oh right, there's a version check for entity_count 00:16 What do I do about that 00:21 hmm that should be auto updated 00:21 when you remake date.h 00:26 "Configuration incompatibility for file "dungeon" 00:27 [hdf-us] [nh362] youshum555 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:8123 00:29 Are you make installing? 00:29 again, it's almost certainly from the entity_count differing because of the new object added 00:29 so it seems like the "dungeon" file isn't being updated somehow 00:30 I added a new object to tnnt yesterday, but since I always just make install I didn't see a problem like this. 00:30 Ahhh that was the problme 00:30 make instal 00:36 [hdf-us] [nh362] youshum555 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:8930 00:52 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 00:53 !beer me 00:53 jonathanhanes: One Darwin stubby, coming up! 00:53 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 00:54 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 00:56 [hdf-us] [nh362] youshum555 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:9727 00:58 <@spookidream> !who 00:58 @spookidream: [hdf-us] Bugpowder [tnnt] luxor [slshm] jesup [nh362] youshum555 [nh362] Sakusen [nh362] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 01:03 -!- Vivvy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:04 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 01:05 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed spellbook of finger of death", on T:33284 01:07 -!- isha is now known as werekitten 01:07 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:33358 01:07 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:33359 01:07 [hdf-us] [nh362] youshum555 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:10427 01:09 -!- Wolfechu has joined #hardfought 01:09 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09 -!- Wolfechu has joined #hardfought 01:10 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:33523 01:14 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:33621 01:29 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:34185 01:30 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:34201 01:36 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 6853 points, T:4335, killed by a dwarf 01:41 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:34980 01:47 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:36186 01:59 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 1838 points, T:2330, killed by a jackal, while helpless 02:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:36648 02:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:36648 02:04 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 457 points, T:432, killed by an acidic corpse 02:10 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) genocided class ;, on T:36818 02:10 [hdf-us] [slshm] luxor (Val Dop Fem Neu), 1262 points, T:976, killed by a hobbit, while helpless 02:18 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Death, on T:36972 02:19 [hdf-us] [nh362] youshum555 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:14124 02:21 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Death, on T:37006 02:21 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 02:22 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:37025 02:24 [hdf-us] [nh362] Sakusen (Wiz Elf Fem Law), 913770 points, T:37040, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/S/Sakusen/nh361/dumplog/1540259967.nh361.txt 02:27 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:42 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:01 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:04 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:18 -!- Bugpowder has joined #hardfought 03:37 -!- Bugpowder has quit [Quit: Bugpowder] 04:11 -!- stenno is now known as stenno\ootc 05:14 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:23 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 05:40 [hdf-us] [nh362] youshum555 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) had Dragonbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:28914 06:33 -!- rebatela has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:45 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 07:47 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Hea Gno Fem Neu) genocided master mind flayer, on T:32162 08:02 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 08:13 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:14 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Hea Gno Fem Neu) killed Medusa, on T:34255 08:37 <[Demo]1> you could run dgl in a docker container, right? 08:44 yes 08:45 there is an old docker image floating around on the registry that is exactly that 08:46 <[Demo]1> hmm yeah found one using telnet 08:47 i think first i'd look into using some sort of package manager to manage nethack variant installations 08:48 it'd make building the image and configuring dlg a lot easier, i can imagine 08:48 cuz i assume that image is pretty hacky and very tedious to modify 08:48 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 08:57 huh, playing on this android tablet is almost viable - just need a better keyboard really (maybe designed specifically for nh default keys) 09:05 have any recommendations for ssh client on android? 09:05 currently using vx connectbot (it's a fork) 09:05 i forgot why but there is a reason i use it 09:29 <@Tone> I used connectbot before to play on NAO with my tablet 09:29 <@Tone> worked pretty well 09:29 <[Demo]1> i use some botnet tier juicessh thing and its pretty ok 09:30 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 09:30 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 09:30 either have features particularly useful for nethack on the tablet? 09:30 what input schemes did yall use? 09:31 <[Demo]1> arrow keys and control keys and other useful keys pop up above keyboard 09:31 <[Demo]1> i have written small parts of ndnh on my phone using it 09:31 <@Tone> I, erm, plugged a full-size keyboard into my tablet's keyboard dock >_> 09:31 maybe i should contemplate adding some nethack specific input schemes to connectbot 09:32 <[Demo]1> yeah theres no good way to play nethack on a device without a keyboard 09:32 cuz that'd be killer 09:32 <@Tone> People get by with the nethack android port 09:32 <@Tone> and the input customization it has 09:32 <@Tone> but that doesn't connect to servers 09:34 <@Tone> Not sure how customizable connectbot is for something like that winny, but you might get some good examples of input schemes from the android app in ##nethack-discord 09:34 <@Tone> I know some people there play using it 09:34 <[Demo]1> youd have to play pretty slow to be able to play on mobile and not go insane 09:34 <[Demo]1> i certainly cannot play that slowly 09:35 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 09:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 09:36 it's free and open source, so i could do a lot of work to specialize it for nethack 09:37 or anybody 09:37 <[Demo]1> that would be neat 09:37 my old roommate made a PoC that allowed one to play nethack with a game controller through sending tmux commands to a tmux window 09:37 <@Tone> In that case, I'd look into how people use the current android app 09:38 it's just a usability problem, needs research indeed :D 09:38 <@Tone> I think it's customizable to add common actions on an overlay 09:38 best case scenario one can bastardize the nethack for android gui and graft it onto connectbot 09:39 but unlikely given the rigidness of real world java 09:39 <[Demo]1> uh i think the best option would be to use the front facing camera 09:39 <[Demo]1> and very very smart gesture interpretation 09:39 oh 09:39 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Kni Ang NB Law), 88 points, T:448, killed by a goblin 09:39 that may be worth looking into but im not very comfortable with gesture input 09:39 personally 09:39 <[Demo]1> yeah no thats not something thats quite there yet i dont think 09:40 <[Demo]1> you'd basically need a full keyboard worth of gestures 09:40 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 09:40 <[Demo]1> the best gestures i could see is you pretending to type on an invisible keyboard and it interpreting it 09:41 i think input chording may be useful 09:41 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 09:42 <[Demo]1> when we get to the point where i can aim my phone at me and type on the air or whatever and it reads it as keyboard input ill probably use a laptop a lot less 09:42 i think if i were seriously going to pursue this i would hop on google scholar and look at some papers about various input schemes for mobile devices 09:43 there's a lot we probably aren't aware of 09:43 always some wonky ideas out there 09:43 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Car Elf Mal Cha), 260 points, T:434, killed by a dwarf 09:44 holycrap 09:44 nethackwiki is a citation on google scholar 09:45 at any rate even this quant game has some cool articles on scholar 09:46 some weird sort of learning AI and combat in NH qute://pdfjs/web/viewer.html?filename=tmpm_zr4x6a_662a6beb2d8a7d7dca11d4aa9d2172ae2316.pdf&file= for example 09:46 oh jeaze, sorry 09:46 https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d9fa/662a6beb2d8a7d7dca11d4aa9d2172ae2316.pdf 09:46 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 09:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v AntiGulp] by ChanServ 09:47 -!- PsyMar has joined #hardfought 09:47 help, need password reset :( 09:48 . 09:48 AntiGulp: Message from aosdict at 2018-10-21 22:54 EDT: Back up your copy of monstr.c, any new monsters you have added to splice will need to get reflagged for difficulty when you merge next. see commit f222023 in vanilla 09:48 AntiGulp: Message from @spookidream at 2018-10-26 13:40 EDT: can we allow players to jump over landsharks 09:48 wait 09:48 I made it the same as my forum password I think 09:48 <@spookidream> @PsyMar should be on the website actually 09:49 nope 09:49 oh 09:49 really? 09:49 oh you weren't talking to me 09:49 spookidream About jumping sharks, absolutely great idea. Done! 09:50 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 09:51 PsyMar: I think the website should have a password reset box on the main page. 09:51 I can reset my password for the website 09:51 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 09:52 which is not my password for ssh 09:52 http://www.noamz.org/papers/nathack.pdf natural language interface to nethack 09:52 <@PsyMar> oh you were talking to me, I misread what the bot said as saying it was talking to you 09:53 PsyMar: Hmmmm. Maybe ask K2 then? 09:53 <@PsyMar> oh, nethack -> password reset 09:53 <@PsyMar> it's hidden in a menu 09:53 <@PsyMar> which says to find an admin here, or send an email to the admin 09:54 winny: That paper is really cool! 09:54 allegedly K2 or Tangles can help. 09:55 it just goes on and on, lots more 09:55 <@spookidream> yeah, you can use !tell to reach them if they're not currently online 09:55 -!- realinari is now known as inari 09:55 oh wow, I just realised what the "monster difficulty is now set manually" change would do to SLEX 09:55 -!- inari is now known as realinari 09:55 [hdf-us] [4k] rorg (zor) (Cav Orc Mal Cha) entered the Minetown temple, on T:1054 09:56 -!- realinari is now known as inari_ 09:56 (we haven't actually changed any of the values yet and probably won't for a while, but the automatic formula leads to weird results sometimes, and this way also simplifies the build process, which was the motivation behind things) 09:56 -!- Pinkbeas1 has joined #hardfought 09:57 <[Demo]1> oh yes please do radical things to some of the older parts of nethack that should probably be adjusted to make more sense 09:58 ais523: Yeah, I’m going to have to manually update all my monsters, it’s gonna be a fun time. It’s good that it makes the build process simpler! 09:58 winny: I love the way it considers "kill all the newt" a syntax error, 99% of natural language command line interfaces would roll with that just fine 09:58 it's like the TDTTOE of natural language processing 10:00 It even has a strange kludge to work around a seemingly simple issue 10:04 [hdf-us] [4k] rorg (zor) (Cav Orc Mal Cha), 11013 points, T:2282, killed by a priest of Anshar 10:10 how do shopkeepers feel about digging new doors _into_ their shops? 10:10 they feel like you should pay them 400zm or so 10:10 hmm, i feel that’s expensive 10:11 * inari_ feels thankful 10:14 you can follow a dwarf that does it though maybe 10:14 you can follow the dwarf before the shopkeeper seals the shop 10:16 problem is more of the urgent sort 10:16 i don’t really have time to wait around for the next dwarf with a pickaxe 10:17 can't open door? 10:17 on a related note, why does mimics have sooooooo much hp? 10:17 my pet is trapped in the shop behind an angry mimic 10:17 u can get the mimic to pursue you 10:17 oh, good point 10:17 it's slower than average player speed, so you can "kite" it 10:18 F is your friend 10:18 ehm 10:18 dywypi 10:18 oh 10:18 welp 10:19 rats joined the party 10:19 some ideas for next time: did you use elbereth, did you pray 10:19 winny: you can only safely do that with ranged weapons, in 3.6.1 10:20 ais523: oh really? thanks, did not know! :) 10:20 in 3.4.3 melee weapons work, in 3.6.0 the rules are just weird and unfair to the player 10:20 in 3.6.1, when a monster is slower than the player, we randomize which turns it moves on 10:20 i prayed and elbereth i don’t trust anymore 10:20 so you can never guarantee you'll get a free turn against it on any particular turn (although free turns will happen quite often) 10:21 3.6.1 elbereth is less nerfed than 3.6.0 elbereth (but rather weaker than in 3.4.3) 10:21 that's sort of an extra nerf to pudding farming and sink kicking 10:21 stupidly i could have used what i think is a wand of sleep though 10:22 <[Demo]1> oh wow this is a really cool effect 10:22 <[Demo]1> Force punch + flicker punch both on at the same time 10:22 <[Demo]1> you punch monsters and they go flying and you teleport with them and land next to them 10:23 what game is that? 10:24 inari_: i like to go pretty slow when i get into sticky situations - though often i get excited and mash keys lol 10:25 <[Demo]1> notdnethack mystic patch 10:25 -!- Ixoth has joined #hardfought 10:34 -!- inari_ has quit [Quit: inari_] 10:35 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 10:38 -!- Announcy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39 -!- Announcy has joined #hardfought 10:39 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Announcy] by ChanServ 10:44 [hdf-us] [spl] zor (Pir Inf NB Cha), 1635 points, T:1806, killed by a bear, while sleeping 10:44 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 10:45 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 10:48 Oh my goodness reflagging these monsters is taking forever 10:48 Should have wrote up a perl script 10:50 There's a gazillion entries in monst.c, yeah. 10:50 Any time you have to make some change to all of them, it's a pain. 10:51 I used macros, when I did that in Fourk. 10:52 <[Demo]1> write vim macros :P 10:53 I give myself carpal tunnel and then belatedly realize I could be using macros 10:55 you are complaining? think about what Amy has to do 10:55 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 10:56 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 10:56 or write up a python script if you prefer a more consistent syntax 10:56 Ah yes, the 21K monsters of slex 10:57 and still growing 10:57 Every time I run into a monster I recognize from vanilla in slex I get excited 10:57 I've once written a script to add the slex monsters to the wiki 10:58 the page got too long and bcode complained about excessive cpu usage 10:58 oh my 10:59 yep, too many types of lions, tigers, and bears 10:59 and so he reverted it 10:59 <[Demo]1> why would amy take a change that would require refactoring all of monst.c? 11:00 to say where all the monsters came from 11:00 <[Demo]1> heh 11:01 like the jonadab monsters and the dnethack monsters 11:05 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 11:06 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:06 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 11:16 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 11:17 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 11:25 !tell aosdict Thanks for the tip (oof, that was annoying to do). By the way, your pager.c code will require a change since it references the monstr array, which no longer exists. You can replace it with mons[].difficulty. 11:25 I'm on it, AntiGulp. 11:27 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 11:27 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: explodes into confetti] 11:27 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 11:28 <@spookidream> AntiGulp: is sonicboom intended to destroy your items as well? 11:28 <@spookidream> just wondering 11:29 [hdf-us] [nh362] jim (Ran Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1 11:29 <@spookidream> it never destroys enemy items, only yours 11:30 <@spookidream> I tried using it one game but it shatters everything in your inventory on hit 11:30 <@spookidream> so it's not really a great weapon 11:33 <@spookidream> !tell AntiGulp sonicboom uses destroy_item instead of destroy_mitem, is this intentional? 11:33 I'm on it, @spookidream. 11:35 -!- Vivvy has joined #hardfought 11:37 <[Demo]1> lol 11:39 wait, you mean when you attack a monster with it, your own items from inventory get destroyed? or is it something like failing to catch Mjollnir? 11:39 if the former, this sounds like a pretty good Bug Hall Of Fame candidate 11:40 <@Tone> That's great 11:40 <@spookidream> yeah it's unusable, it destroys all your wands, rings, etc 11:41 <@Tone> Even if it's a bug it would be fun to tweak it to retain the property now 11:41 <@Tone> like make it really strong otherwise 11:41 <@spookidream> I was lucky it didn't destroy my armor 11:41 <@spookidream> it seems to do that too 11:41 <@Tone> and then you just have to bag everything else 11:41 @Tone: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Bug_Hall_of_Fame is full of bugs like that 11:42 I used to maintain it myself, but the wiki is a better home for it, as something like this is exactly the sort of thing that wants to be a) centrally hosted and b) updatable by anyone 11:42 (also, what if it destroyed the bag? :-D) 11:43 <[Demo]1> Amulet delivery service isnt even a bug wth thats a valid tactic 11:43 <@Tone> ais523: This is great, I'll have to read through it 😄 11:44 <@spookidream> ranged monster spellcasting was never removed from dnh though 11:44 "Player speed was completely broken for a while: on each turn, you would get faster and faster with each turn, until you would have around 9 turns of free movement on the 10th turn. But every 11th turn, you would become paralyzed for 11 turns." ← sounds interesting as a challenge mode 11:45 [Demo]1: the devteam considers the amulet delivery service a bug; there's even code that's meant to stop that sort of situation occurring, it just didn't recognise the sanctum as being a location it should stop 11:45 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 11:45 in 3.4.3, liches don't teleport over to Rodney to try to steal the Book of the Dead; that's an analogous situation 11:46 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 11:54 <[Demo]1> ah ok if code exists that was supposed to prevent it then ok 11:54 <[Demo]1> and yeahhh ok 11:54 What's amulet delivery service? 11:55 . 11:55 Chris_ANG: Message from @reapersan at 2018-10-26 10:11 EDT: simurgh doesn't reveal trap doors that you escape 11:55 Chris_ANG: Message from @reapersan at 2018-10-26 20:17 EDT: why does the PR from nero indicate that OPROP_ACIDW is "sparkling" ala "sparkling potions"? since when is lethe water acidic? 11:55 <[Demo]1> hey chris 11:55 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 11:55 <[Demo]1> taking on your mon_ranged_gazeonly change and im ready for everything to stop working 11:55 he :)llo 11:56 >_< 11:56 Bit tired right now, also was typing one-handed 11:56 <[Demo]1> if it works though that would be pretty exiting 11:56 So far it hasn't broken too bad. 11:56 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 11:57 (By which I mean "I haven't noticed any problems") 11:57 correction on the "sparkling" -- it's for the magic-bonus-damage weapon property 11:57 Ok, I thought I saw that go by last night, but was going to double-check. 11:58 and, as far as I can tell, it currently won't be generated without a wizard-mode wish 11:58 <[Demo]1> https://i.imgur.com/vjxJoyK.png this concerns me :P hoping that it wasnt supposed to be indented and thats all 11:59 Uhhhh 12:00 Looks like yeah, indentation. 12:00 <[Demo]1> judging by context it probably just wasnt supposed to be indented 12:00 <[Demo]1> but seeing stuff like that always scares me at first glance 12:01 lol yeah 12:01 And yeah, I think nothing gets a magic-damage blade. 12:02 Also, I see that basically everything with object properties was broken, so thanks for fixing XD 12:03 Vivvy: amulet delivery service is a 3.4.3 trick where you get a covetous monster to beat up the High Priest of Moloch (it'll focus on monsters with the Amulet); when it gets the Amulet, it'll then teleport over to you and fight you; the end result is that you can get the Amulet at little risk while standing on the Sanctum stairs, and not need to do the level at all 12:03 <[Demo]1> whoa, cerberus has dragon breath?? 12:03 the hard part is getting a sufficiently major demon into the Sanctum in the first plaec 12:03 What do you think is a good way to show whether or not an weapon's oprop is 'lesser' or not? 12:04 (The 'lesser' flag causes bonus oprop damage to be +1d6 instead of +damage) 12:04 -!- Ixoth has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:04 It's okay for it to be hidden, I suppose. Keeps the object name less cluttered 12:05 Not sure. I don't want to print out "lesser" :/ 12:05 Currently, it's ONLY for Oona's weapons. 12:05 If it becomes a more generally occurring modifier, something will need to be done to make it visible. 12:06 ... 12:06 What happens if you polymorph a oproperty item? 12:08 Ok, destroys the properties. 12:09 Now, *should* it destroy the properties? 12:10 It reduces the abusability of properties, especially for nameable artifacts 12:11 Right now its possible to get a silver Excalibur, a +12 Excalibur, or a axiomatic Excalibur 12:11 <[Demo]1> hmm it doesnt work 12:11 Allowing polymorph would open that up to a concordant Excalibur (for 2x damage) 12:11 "slightly axiomatic"? 12:12 Or, for cavemen, an Excalibur (for 2x damage) 12:12 I'm not sure if the 2x damage comes before or after artifact bonus damage, however 12:12 Before 12:12 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:13 It's meant to be safe to stack with artifact-ness, so it records the base damage before calling either function. 12:13 If both functions need to get called, both should get the original base damage. 12:14 -!- LanternTrickya has joined #hardfought 12:14 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LanternTrickya] by ChanServ 12:14 That sounds good 12:14 And yeah, that's my instinct as well, that they shouldn't be poly-able. 12:15 Why does oproperty_hit return a boolean? 12:15 I think returning a string would be better 12:15 I think the answer is "It works the same way that artifact_hit does" 12:15 (...if that's possible. If not, an int corresponding to a string in an array or something) 12:16 Well, it always returns FALSE at the moment 12:16 <[Demo]1> yey it works, now balam is probably gonna need a nerf 12:16 Right, because it never... prints anything out? (I think is what those booleans mean) 12:17 Ah yes 12:17 Hm, and the uhtim code is set to ignore any output it does produce. 12:18 returning TRUE (for artifact hit) replaces the normal on-hit message 12:18 Because I was lazy. 12:18 My thought was to return a one-word replacement for "hit" to use in the phrase "You hit the foo!" 12:18 However, the idea is that future properties might produce output. Vorpal-ness would probably be a bad property, but it would, for example. 12:20 I think it should make a slightly different message when the property works on a monster 12:21 Not an artifact's over-the-top message "the ice-cold blade freezes the foo!" 12:22 but "You hit the foo!" -> "You freeze the foo!" 12:23 Stackability causes a bit of a combinatorial explosion there. But I agree. 12:24 I'd not stack them, but instead pick one at random from the applied effects 12:24 do the damage for all that apply, yes, but only show 1 message 12:24 That would work. 12:25 hmm, it would step on the Barbarian's toes a little, but I'd say anarchic/concordant/axiomatic's verb would be to "smite" 12:25 "refute" ;) 12:26 mmm :) 12:26 off-topic: why "axiomatic" over "harmonic"? 12:28 Axiomatic and anarchic are D&D weapon properties. 12:29 There's no neutral property in D&D, though. 12:30 !tell antigulp ouch, you really reflagged monsters to give them difficulties instead of letting makedefs assign them? lol I can only imagine what a pain that was :D I've decided that for slex I'll keep letting makedefs do all that work for me 12:30 LanternTrickya: Message from @spookidream at 2018-10-26 13:38 EDT: add motorcycles so we can jump over sharks on motorcycles in slex 12:30 LanternTrickya: Message from @Tone at 2018-10-26 13:40 EDT: Also lava sharks and sunglasses for extra cool factor please 12:30 Will do, LanternTrickya! 12:30 (However, the full name of the Outlands in D&D is "The Concordant Domain of the Outlands") 12:31 -!- Vivvy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:31 I was thinking that what harmonium armor does is pretty much what I'd expect armor with the "axiomatic" armor property to do 12:31 LanternTrickya: in vanilla we just copied the values from monstr.c into monst.c 12:31 I don't think we automated that, but it wouldn't have been too ridiculous to automate 12:32 whereas in slex it'd be ridiculous /not/ to automate :-D 12:32 ais523: whaaaaat, you're saying that is a vanilla change?! but why? was makedefs not good enough or what? 12:33 -!- Vivvy has joined #hardfought 12:33 it make cross compiling harder than it should be 12:33 a) there's sentiment for simplifying the build system, b) the automated difficulty assignment isn't actually very good and it'd make sense to change some difficulties without needing to add ad-hoc tweaks everywhere 12:33 it's an unnecessary step 12:34 heh, out of curiosity, which monsters do get a "wrong" difficulty by makedefs? 12:34 my guess would be that the difficulty of leocrottas is too low :P 12:36 NeroOneTrueKing: Oh, yeah. In fact I considered implementing Harmonium armor as regular armor with the Axiomatic property. 12:36 However, I wanted the different base material, description, and color, too. 12:37 LanternTrickya: an obvious example is blue jellies; those should be safe to spawn on fairly shallow depths, but don't actually spawn until the midgame 12:37 @v?blue jelly 12:37 blue jelly (j) | Lvl: 4 | Diff: 5 | Spd: 0 | Res: cold poison | Confers: cold poison | MR: 10 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 8 | Attacks: 0d6 passive cold | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, amorphous, breathless, mindless, vegan 12:37 huh? with a difficulty of 5 they should actually start appearing pretty early? 12:37 LanternTrickya, another example is leprechauns for which makedefs had a special case 12:38 good point 12:38 <@ChrisANG> Just to drop in a picture of people in Harmonium armor: 12:38 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/505782447791669249/379harmonium.png 12:40 jilles: oh god slex still has that, I need to fix that because it makes no sense to special-case only one single monster out of all the other leprechauns in team l 12:40 and grid bugs are also somehow special-cased, no idea why... 12:41 grid bugs are special cased so their lightning attack doesn't increase their difficulty rating 12:42 @le?grid bug 12:42 grid bug (x) | Lvl: 0 | Diff: 1 | Spd: 12 | Res: shock poison | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 9 | Attacks: 1d1 bite shock | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, oviparous, infravisible 12:42 @le?weapon bug 12:42 weapon bug (x) | Lvl: 0 | Diff: 2 | Spd: 12 | Res: shock poison | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 9 | Attacks: 1d1 weapon shock | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, oviparous, nopoly, infravisible 12:42 hmm I wonder whether the latter has a difficulty of 2 because he can use weapons, or because he's not special-cased 12:44 weapon attacks only increase difficulty for M2_STRONG monsters (in vanilla 3.6.1) 12:44 this seems a bit strange as weapon attacks always increase the damage and side effects a monster can do 12:44 yeah but M2_STRONG can spawn with stronger weapons via makemon.c IIRC 12:48 huh? with a difficulty of 5 they should actually start appearing pretty early? ← they'd be safe at 2 or 3 12:49 heh, easy solution: make a clone of the blue jelly with a lower base level, then makedefs gives it a lower difficulty! :D 12:50 also my guess would be that the vanilla devteam said back then "well, their passive damage really hurts a lot, they probably shouldn't appear so early" 12:51 but then again, there's the floating eye, and it's THE deadliest early-game monster because if you hit it, you're dead, full stop. And the ***** can appear suddenly and entirely without warning when you open a door and the floating eye behind it just picked that turn to get a move and float into the doorway. Before you realize it's there, you've already hit the direction button and bam. 12:52 a blue jelly might rarely be in the way 12:52 and there are also brown molds 12:53 it's also weird how passive cold damage works very differently from fire or shock in that regard 12:57 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:01 mmm first genocide: gridbugs 13:01 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:01 second genocide: woodchuck 13:05 !tell PsyMar do you need a password reset? 13:05 No worries, K2, I've got this! 13:06 the attack-on-move thing is the biggest interface screw in Nethack 13:07 the game would be so tedious to play without it, though, probably 13:07 winny: make sure to save one geno for those pesky lichens 13:07 Pokémon Mystery Dungeon doesn't have bump-attacking, but it feels like a smaller game 13:08 [hdf-us] [nh13d] vivit (Sam Mal), 424 points, T:1552, imp 13:08 apropos attack-on-move, is there an in-game shortcut key for enable/disable autodig 13:08 ? 13:08 Well, Od^M is pretty quick 13:08 playing archeologist can be tedious 13:09 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 13:09 Od^M? 13:09 I always forget to turn off autodig when I'm camped out in an altar room with the doors locked 13:10 O)ptions d to toggle autodig, and ^M is return 13:10 at least it's d in 3.6.2 13:11 oh6: it would already help if floating eyes paralyzed you for a sane amount of time IMHO 13:12 yeah, it's a long time compared to everything else in the early game 13:13 You are paralysed for (LEV + 1)d70 turns if your wisdom is greater than 12. Otherwise, there is a 75% chance of the same length of paralysis and a 25% chance of being paralysed for exactly 127 turns. 13:13 [hdf-us] [nh13d] vivit (Fig Mal), 247 points, T:835, orc 13:13 I actually knew someone who customarily used ^M instead of the return key, because they could touch-type, and they'd worked a dozen different places and couldn't be bothered to learn where the return key was on every keyboard 13:13 [hdf-us] [nh13d] vivit (Wiz Mal), 50 points, T:31, homunculus 13:14 is that LEV dungeon level or experience level? 13:14 probably neither, I'd expect it to be the level of the floating eye, usually 1 or 2 13:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Val Swn Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:806 13:15 hmm 13:15 but depending on how deep it's generated, it may be higher 13:15 [hdf-us] [nh13d] vivit (Wiz Mal), 209 points, T:91, hobgoblin 13:15 *cough*fourk blood puddings*cough* :P 13:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] zor (Val Swn Fem Neu), 1525 points, T:867, killed by a tinker gnome 13:19 yeah, looks like it's monster level 13:19 [hdf-us] [nh13d] vivit (Wiz Mal), 304 points, T:522, bolt of cold 13:20 scaling the paralysis by the player's level would be hilariously nasty 13:21 heh, it probably doesn't change anything though, because even with "only" 1d70 you still have a pretty high chance of being paralyzed for long enough that you simply die to whatever monster is nearby 13:21 [hdf-us] [nh13d] vivit (Wiz Mal), 180 points, T:326, hobgoblin 13:22 in Angband, floating eyes instead have active paralysis gazes that can chain-paralyze players, which is basically exactly as nasty as nethack floating eye paralysis, except even harder to avoid; you never unfreeze, and if no monster is there to end you, you'll die by starvation instead... 13:22 [hdf-us] [nh13d] vivit (Wiz Mal), 73 points, T:98, imp 13:25 !rcfile 13:25 !options 13:25 !help 13:25 realinari: https://www.hardfought.org/nethack 13:27 !player inari 13:28 !commands 13:28 realinari: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !asc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands 13:28 !rcedit inari 13:28 realinari: https://www.hardfought.org/nethack/rcedit 13:29 also goat? 13:29 !goat 13:29 Beholder's goat runs up and kicks realinari in the face! Baaaaaa! 13:29 * realinari whines 13:31 ;) 13:31 !booze realinari 13:31 * Beholder passes realinari a shot of the hard stuff, brewed by demogorgon at 114 degrees Fahrenheit. 13:32 !booze 13:32 * Beholder pours raisse a barrel of liquid courage, brewed by Izchak at 39 degrees Fahrenheit. 13:32 a barrel! isn't that a bit much? 13:33 seems like he knows you.. 13:33 also, danke! 13:33 !booze LanternTrickya 13:33 * Beholder passes LanternTrickya a glass of suds, distilled by Announcy at 90 Kelvin. 13:33 what the hell is suds? 13:33 realinari: deutsch? ;) 13:33 I don't know either 13:33 suds = washing-up water afaik 13:35 LanternTrickya: mir? nein, aber ich wohne in wien 13:35 apropos, where are the hardfought servers located? 13:35 realinari: ah, Österreich :-) ich selber bin aus Deutschland 13:36 nice to meet you! 13:36 I thought inari would be Finnish, from Inari 13:36 likewise! I think I was in austria once when I was a child, don't remember much about it but I do remember something about a traaaaaain ♥ 13:36 not far of 13:37 some years back i actually drove to inari, finland and took a photo of me in front of the city sign.. 13:37 i’m norwegian 13:37 heh 13:39 realinari: wow, so you learned german? it's a pretty difficult language; you have my respect! the only foreign language I can speak fluently is english 13:39 i’m not sure you would conclude that i speak german after actually talking to me in person.. 13:40